Tangle - The New Orleans attack.

Episode Date: January 6, 2025

In the early hours of New Year’s Day, a man drove a pickup truck into a crowd on New Orleans’s Bourbon Street, killing 14 people and injuring 35 others. Additionally, the attacker reportedly planted multiple improvised explosive devices in the area, but they did not detonate. Investigators said the suspect appears to have been inspired by ISIS, a U.S.-designated terrorist group, and was flying an ISIS flag from the truck's rear bumper during the attack. The attacker was killed in a shootout with the police.Ad-free podcasts are here!Many listeners have been asking for an ad-free version of this podcast that they could subscribe to — and we finally launched it. You can go to tanglemedia.supercast.com to sign up!You can read today's podcast⁠ ⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠, our “Under the Radar” story ⁠here and today’s “Have a nice day” story ⁠here⁠.Take the survey: What do you think is currently the biggest threat to national security? Let us know!You can subscribe to Tangle by clicking here or drop something in our tip jar by clicking here. Our podcast is written by Isaac Saul and edited and engineered by Dewey Thomasl. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75. Our newsletter is edited by Managing Editor Ari Weitzman, Will Kaback, Bailey Saul, Sean Brady, and produced in conjunction with Tangle’s social media manager Magdalena Bokowa, who also created our logo. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

From executive producer, Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon and good evening and welcome to the Tangle podcast, the place we get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking and a little bit of my take. I'm your host, Isaac Saul, and we are back in action. I'm back in the hosting chair. We had a nice lengthy 10-day break over Christmas and New Year's. It's been a while since we got a fresh newsletter out the door.

And today, unfortunately, we have to cover the attack that happened in New Orleans, which is not exactly the way that I wanted to start the year. But nevertheless, it does seem to be the biggest story happening in the country right now. And there's a good bit of meat on the bone to discuss, you know, some of the threats that we face here domestically and some of the way the media covered it and way members of Congress and the president-elect responded to the story in the immediate aftermath. So we're going to jump into all that.

Before we do, though, I want to give you a quick heads up that on Friday, this upcoming Friday, we're going to start the year the same way we do every year in our first week. We're going to review all of our coverage from 2024. I shouldn't say all of our coverage. Most of our coverage, a good chunk of our coverage from 2024, we're gonna pull out some of the most

controversial and important articles and newsletters and podcasts that we published throughout the year. And we're gonna review them, grade them, look back on them with the benefit of hindsight and be critical of our own coverage and talk a little bit about what we got wrong and also what we got right. We try and do this every year in the first week of January

when we come back from break, so I'm excited to do that. As always, these Friday editions are for our members only. So if you wanna get that in audio form, you can go to tanglemedia.supercast.com to become a member. Or if you want to get the newsletter version of that or read it online, you can go to readtangle.com forward slash membership to become a member and get those Friday editions right in your inbox.

All right, with that, I'm going to pass it over to John. He's going to catch you up on some of the stuff we missed and I'll be back for my take. Thanks, Isaac. And welcome back, everybody. I hope that you enjoyed your holiday break. Maybe got a little time with loved ones or at least a little relaxation time during the last couple weeks of the year. Before we get into today's quick hits, I'm just going to catch you up real quick on some stories that you might have missed during the holiday break. First up, former president Jimmy Carter passed away at age 100 on December 29th. Number two, a passenger jet operated by Jeju Air crash-landed in South Korea, killing 179 of 181 people on board.

The plane's landing gear did not appear to deploy properly, and investigators are working to determine what caused the failure. Separately, an Azerbaijan Airlines plane crashed in Kazakhstan, killing 38 people. Azerbaijan's preliminary investigation found that Russian air defenses likely downed the plane. 3. A federal appeals court blocked an order by the Federal Communications Commission to reinstate net neutrality rules governing Internet service providers, finding that the agency overstepped its authority.

4. A widespread blackout that hit Puerto Rico on New Year's Eve is believed to have been caused by a failure in an underground electrical wire. Power was restored to most of the island on New Year's Day. 5. The Treasury Department said its systems were hacked by a state-sponsored actor in China. The hacker accessed some unclassified documents, but the department said that it had contained the threat. Number six, President-elect Donald Trump asked the Supreme Court to pause the January 19th deadline for a potential TikTok ban in the U.S., suggesting that he would resolve the challenges to the ban

after his inauguration. Number seven, newly surfaced photos from the National Archives and Records Administration appear to show then Vice President Joe Biden meeting with Chinese business associates of his son Hunter, casting doubt on Biden's claims to have not been involved in his son's business activities. Number 8. Judge Juan Marchand upheld President-elect Trump's conviction in his New York criminal trial and scheduled his sentencing for January 10th. Marchand said Trump would not be sentenced to prison or probation.

Number 9. The Biden administration announced a $306 million commitment toward preparedness for managing the risk of H5N1, an avian influenza, which has affected millions of livestock across the country. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention say that the current risk to humans remains low. And number 10, new data from the Department of Housing and Urban Development found that 771,480 people were homeless in the United States in 2024,

an increase of 18% from 2023. All right, that is it for the stories we missed, and now we'll move on to today's quick hits. First up, Representative Mike Johnson was re-elected as Speaker of the House on the first ballot after two Republican holdouts changed their votes to support him. Number two, President Joe Biden blocked Nippon Steel's proposed acquisition of U.S. Steel, citing potential security issues posed by the deal. Nippon and U.S. Steel filed a federal lawsuit challenging the decision. Number three, winter storm Blair dumped the heaviest snowfall in decades across Kansas,

with some areas recording 18 inches of snow. The storm is now moving from the Midwest to the Mid-Atlantic, with more than 350,000 people without power and four reported deaths. 4. Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced his resignation as leader of the Liberal Party. Trudeau plans to remain Prime Minister until a new party leader is chosen. At number 5, Ukraine launched a surprise offensive in Russia's Kursk region amid ongoing fighting with Russian and North Korean troops.

Separately, South Korean President Yun Suk-yul's security services defied a warrant for his arrest despite a court upholding the warrant's validity. Yun was impeached in December for his decision to declare martial law and he is suspended from official duties while South Korea's Constitutional Court decides whether to reinstate or remove him. The FBI released this statement this morning. An individual drove a car into a crowd of people on Bourbon Street in New Orleans, killing a number of people and injuring dozens of others. The subject then engaged with local law enforcement and is now deceased.

The FBI is the lead investigative agency and we are working with our partners to investigate this as an act of terrorism. Now to the nationwide nationwide warning in the wake of the deadly truck attack in New Orleans, the FBI urging law enforcement across the country to be vigilant for possible copycat crimes. Investigators today back at the suspect's home in Houston, finding bomb-making materials there and a rare explosive in the homemade IEDs.

In the early hours of New Year's Day, a man drove a pickup truck into a crowd on New Orleans' Bourbon Street, killing 14 people and injuring 35 others. Additionally, the attacker reportedly planted multiple improvised explosive devices in the area, but they did not detonate. Investigators said the suspect appears to have been inspired by ISIS, a US-designated

terrorist group, and was flying an ISIS flag from the truck's rear bumper during the attack. The attacker was killed in a shootout with police. The Federal Bureau of Investigation identified Shamsuddin Jabbar, 42, as the perpetrator of the attack. Jabbar was a United States citizen and Army veteran, most recently working as a senior consultant at the professional services firm Deloitte. He reportedly rented the truck used in the attack in Houston, Texas on December 30 and drove it to Louisiana, where he posted videos on social media declaring

his allegiance to ISIS. FBI Deputy Assistant Director Christopher Raya said that Jabbar initially planned to harm his friends and family, but changed course in an attempt to portray his attack as part of a war between believers and disbelievers. On Sunday, the FBI revealed that Jabbar visited New Orleans twice in the months prior to plan the attack, wearing smart glasses to record video. In the immediate aftermath, the special agent in charge for the FBI New Orleans said it was not considered a terrorist event, but the agency changed its assessment later that

day. Investigators also explored a possible link between the incident and a Tesla Cybertruck that exploded outside of a Trump hotel in Las Vegas, Nevada, hours later. The perpetrator of that attack, Matthew L Littlesberger was killed in the explosion, but no other casualties were reported. On Sunday, the FBI said that it had not found any definitive link between the incidents and believes Jabbar was acting alone. A Fox News report on New Year's Day also created some confusion about the suspect's identity after the network mistakenly reported that he had crossed the border into the U.S. from Mexico two days prior.

While Fox later corrected the report, the initial story led some Republicans, including President-elect Donald Trump, to link the attack to broader immigration issues. President Joe Biden will visit New Orleans on Monday to meet with law enforcement officials and family members of the victims. Today, we'll explore perspectives on the attack with writers from the right and the left, and then Isaac's take. We'll be right back after this quick break. Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era, dive into Peloton workouts that work with you.

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Visit Peloton at OnePeloton.ca. All right. First up, let's start with some agreement. The right and the left express horror for the attack and sympathize with the victims and their families. Commentators across the political spectrum also say the incident shows the U.S. remains vulnerable to terror threats. Alright, let's move on to what the right is saying.

The right is critical of the FBI's initial response to the attack, worrying that federal law enforcement agencies have become distracted by progressive politics. Some say the Biden administration's policies helped create an environment in which this attack could take place. Others suggest the country is not taking domestic terror threats seriously enough. The Washington Examiner editorial board wrote, the public deserves blunt honesty from the FBI. Just hours after Shamsuddin Jabbar drove a rented Ford F-150 with an ISIS flag on the trailer hitch along

a crowded Bourbon Street, evidently to kill as many people as he could. FBI Special Agent Althea Duncan took to a podium in New Orleans and confidently said, this is not a terrorist event, the board said. Unfortunately, what has emerged at the FBI under President Joe Biden is a pattern of behavior in which supposed threats from some communities are promoted and outright invented, while real threats from other communities are minimized or ignored for political reasons. It often seems as though federal agencies are more concerned with message massaging

rather than with honesty in giving the public solid information. The public usually understands that acts of violence have been committed by people motivated by political ideas, Islamist or otherwise, before investigators are prepared to admit it as a possibility," the board wrote. It is not the FBI's job to placate the feelings of sensitive communities. It is its job to investigate crime and acts of terrorism, bring the perpetrators to justice, and keep the public informed about their progress along the way. In Fox News, Mike Pompeo called the attack a reminder that Team Biden took wrong threats

seriously and ignored real dangers. The heinous act of terror in New Orleans early on New Year's Day underscores the Biden administration's staggering failure to keep America safe and deter radical Islamic terror. By allowing focus on this persistent threat to America's national security to lapse and instead wasting time and resources attacking political opponents, parents going to school board meetings, and Catholics, Team Biden left America vulnerable, Pompeo said. Instead of combating radical Islamic terror at home and abroad, Biden downplayed this threat in favor of conjured political threats and allowed the real threats to metastasize, culminating in the New Orleans attack.

For four years, our wide-open borders have allowed extremists with ties to groups like ISIS to cross into our country unfettered, bolstering their capacity to plan and carry out attacks and enhancing their radicalization efforts. By treating counterterrorism as another political weapon or tool for advancing woke ideology, Team Biden left a gap in our national security apparatus that actors like ISIS have eagerly exploited," Pompeo wrote. "'Correcting these gaps in our national security is urgent and must be a priority for the incoming Trump administration.

In City Journal, Hannah E. Myers said, we've forgotten a key part of counterterrorism. In many ways, Jabbar fits the decades-old mold of a homegrown extremist. His life wasn't going great. Two divorces and a failing business left him cash-strapped and sounding desperate in correspondence with lawyers. One of his exes stopped allowing him to see their shared daughters.

Jabbar's religious observance became increasingly radical, and he kept largely to himself. It's a familiar portrait," Myers wrote. What these incidents suggest is a growing lack of awareness and care by American citizens and institutions. The obliviousness is evident not only in our response to jihadi threats, but also in ignoring many criminal and anti-Semitic threats. We have yet to learn whether authorities missed any crucial signals leading up to Jabbar's attack, but in our current relaxed milieu, it's easy to imagine.

We have convinced ourselves that our vigilance is just another symptom of our Western privilege," Meyer said. Government officials have let down their guard. Last June, the Department of Homeland Security belatedly identified more than 400 migrants smuggled into the U.S. by an ISIS-affiliated network. Record-breaking illegal border crossings in recent years demonstrate a collapse of institutional vigilance. When the criminal justice system ignores so many signs the right is saying, which brings us to what the left is saying.

The left notes how commonplace the threat of mass casualty events has become in the United States. Some argue the U.S. should reassess its preventative measures to address terrorism. Others criticized Trump for his response to the attack. The Guardian editorial board wrote, A familiar horror marks an anxious new year. The method of attack, plowing a vehicle into crowds, and the decision to strike those celebrating at a time associated with togetherness and joy are now far too well recognized internationally, the

board said. Part of the grimness of the event is that the ordinary activities that should require no special protections are now guarded as a matter of course, and that even such precautions can prove inadequate. Bullards were reportedly being upgraded in New Orleans ahead of next month's Super Bowl, and patrols and barricades were being used in the meantime. The Department of Homeland Security's 2025 threat assessment, released in October,

warned that the risk of terrorism was expected to remain high, with lone offenders and small groups most likely to carry out attacks with little or no warning. It also noted that most mass casualty attacks were related to mental illness or relationship grievances rather than ideology, the board wrote. Yet, the uncertainties surrounding the New Orleans attack have done nothing to temper the incoming president's response.

While Joe Biden's remarks focused on the need for a full and assiduous investigation and the prevention of any further threat, Donald Trump, who takes office on January 20, seized the opportunity to fearmonger and point-score. In MSNBC, Cynthia Miller-Idris called the attack an urgent national warning. The apparent ease with which the perpetrator planned and executed the attack, despite the FBI warning, suggests our national security for preventing mass violence and violent extremism is failing," Miller-Idriss said. A main prevention strategy for the U.S. government in the area is called secondary prevention

and is almost entirely focused on stopping an already-radicalized actor from effectively executing an attack. Other countries put more emphasis on both primary prevention, preventing people from becoming radicalized in the first place, and tertiary prevention, deradicalization, and disengagement of already committed extremists. It is impossible to infiltrate a group that doesn't exist, just as it's hard to surveil a lone actor who isn't communicating with a terrorist cell commander. This is where primary prevention can make a real difference, but if only we would invest

in it," Miller-Edras said. Early prevention also requires addressing the root causes that underpin people's attraction to extremist ideologies in the first place, including, for many lone actors, a yearning for a greater sense of meaning or purpose in their lives. This is extremely true for veterans, who have disproportionately engaged in violent extremism in ways that are both predictable and preventable. In USA Today, Chris Brennan said, Trump lying about terrorism in New Orleans is no surprise. Compare President Joe Biden's reaction to Wednesday's attack with Trump's disinformation

and distortion. Biden waited for detailed briefings to know what he could share about the act of terrorism, Brennan wrote. Trump, as president-elect until January 20, also receives intelligence briefings. He chose to use his social media platform, the incredibly inaccurately named Truth Social, on Wednesday morning to blame criminals entering the country illegally for the day's mayhem. He threw in some blame for Democrats and the fake news media.

One big problem there. Trump appeared to be running with an unconfirmed and now we know inaccurate Fox News report Wednesday morning suggesting that the rented pickup truck used had entered the country from Mexico two days before the attack. Trump connected dots to draw a picture he wanted while either not having or not caring about accurate information, Brennan said. Fox News did the right thing, walking back that claim and clarifying in follow-up news reports on Wednesday.

But Trump would never acknowledge a mistake that plays to his base that stokes fear while ignoring facts. So he just kept on posting on Thursday about immigration, painting America as a nation in decline with his thrare bed, only I can fix it, nonsense. All right, let's head over to Isaac for his take. All right, that is it for what the left and the right are saying, which brings us to my take. So, one thing I've learned after doing this job for a little while is that criticizing

people from the sidelines and with hindsight is exceedingly easy. I mean, it is incredibly very, very, very easy. So was FBI Special Agent Alethea Duncan wrong to declare definitively that this attack was not a terrorist event in the immediate aftermath? Yes, she was. This had the hallmarks of terrorism. It was clearly intentional. It was done in public. It was designed to maximize damage. And it involved political images, i.e. in this case, the ISIS flag. And there was no obvious marker to justify ruling terrorism out so quickly, which of course is why the FBI changed their tune just hours later.

But Duncan was also addressing a panicked public, in a city hosting a major sporting event that day, the college football playoff game, and trying to assuage concerns about ongoing threats. Her transparent effort to calm the nerves of the public was at least understandable, if a bit misguided. Still, what people in her position need most from the public is trust, and this statement did not help her credibility. Similarly, a lot of media organizations got ribbed for not calling this what it was, or rather not calling it what it appeared to be, in the immediate hours after the attack. Yet, claiming an attack is terrorism prematurely may actually be more dangerous than prematurely

denying it. Places like Fox News, CNN, or the New York Times have rules for reporting on events like this. Even with trustworthy on-the-ground accounts saying that the suspect had an ISIS flag on his truck, media outlets still can't definitively state that the attack was terrorism. First, they have to confirm those details themselves. Then they have to suss out a motive.

Then they have to confirm the suspect's identity, track down that suspect's family, and then their internet history and friends and past bosses and records. And then they have to try to confirm all of that information with law enforcement, who may not yet have answers themselves, and make sure releasing it won't interfere

in an ongoing investigation. It is simply impossible to do all of that in a matter of hours, and when you try to move too fast, you make mistakes. In this case, Fox News initially reported that the suspect came into the US from Mexico two days before the attack. However, Fox News initially reported that the suspect came into the U.S. from Mexico two days before the attack. However, Fox had to retract that claim after it learned that the vehicle Jabbar rented

had come in from Mexico, a reminder that things aren't always what they seem. And Jabbar was a U.S. citizen and Army veteran who grew up in Texas. But it was too late. President-elect Donald Trump, members of Congress, and thousands of social media users had already run with the claim that the suspect was a migrant of some sort who had come across the poorest southern border to commit terrorism.

As natural as it feels to draw conclusions that confirm our assumptions, motives often aren't understood in the immediate aftermaths of attacks, even and sometimes especially when the attackers leave what appear to be obvious signs. For instance, we still don't know why the shooter who nearly killed Trump in Pennsylvania in July pulled the trigger, and we may never figure it out. Of course, all of this is made more difficult

by the fact that we don't have a great working definition for terrorism. Oxford defines it as the use of violent action in order to achieve political aims or force a government to act. The FBI defines domestic and foreign terrorism differently. It defines domestic terrorism as violent criminal acts committed by individuals and or groups to further ideological goals stemming from domestic influences such as those of a political, religious, social, racial,

or environmental nature. And it defines international terrorism as violent criminal acts committed by individuals and or groups who are inspired by or associated with designated foreign terrorist organizations or nations, state-sponsored. Pretty much every definition includes violence against civilians for some broader ideological purpose.

In America and the West, we mostly apply these definitions to Islamic extremists. Plenty of people have tried to apply the terrorist label to states like Israel for killing civilians in the pursuit of political aims, or individuals like Luigi Mangione currently being charged with terrorism in New York. Both cases use terrorism as an exemplifier that I don't think adds clarity or understanding. Personally, I'm more interested in saying plainly what took place and then identifying patterns

so we can prevent events like this from happening in the future. So here are a few patterns that I'm seeing. First, the ISIS threat is still real globally, and it's alarming to see someone potentially radicalized by the group committing an attack here in the U.S. The New York Times has a list of all the ISIS organized or inspired attacks over the past five years, and it's longer than you might think for a group that has purportedly been

wiped out. Second, it's long past time for a real conversation about how to prevent current or former US military members from being radicalized. Both Chibara and the suspect in the Las Vegas car explosion, which happened on the same day, were US military veterans. This is part of a disturbing pattern of mass killings or radical political acts committed by ex-service members. In 2023, a US Army reservist committed a mass shooting in Maine that killed 18 people.

In 2020, an active-duty airman killed two police officers. In 2009, in perhaps the most well-known event of this kind, an Army major and psychiatrist killed 13 people and injured more than 30 others in an attack at Fort Hood. Meanwhile, many current or former military members are being radicalized and recruited into armed militia groups or foreign extremist organizations like it appears Tribar was. Even the most basic efforts to study the association between military service and extremism have been stymied by allegations of star funding and misleading reports. And third, the erroneous Fox News report notwithstanding, it is also fair to ask questions about our

own border security when discussing the general threat of terrorism. The federal terror watchlist casts a notoriously and sometimes dangerously wide net, but hundreds of people on it crossed into the US through the northern or southern border in the last fiscal year. The Department of Homeland Security has warned that in 2025 they expect dangerous groups and organizations to exploit high rates of migration and try to enter the US. None of these are new threats, and frankly, we are still pretty safe. In the post-9-11 war, foreign terrorist attacks in the US have been pretty rare. But for better or for worse, we've sacrificed a great deal

of personal liberty in exchange for safety or the appearance of it. Yet it seems obvious to me that our biggest national security threat is not foreign invaders but domestic radicalization. Sometimes that radicalization is inspired by foreign actors. Sometimes it is inspired by domestic politics, driven by racism or anti-government sentiment, or exasperated by mental health issues or easy access to guns. But the uncomfortable truth is that most, not all, of these killings involve American citizens who have been compelled to commit violence. This has been true since 9-11, it was true in 2016, and it has been true for the last nine years.

For the sake of reducing and eliminating these frightening public events, which take a massive toll on the psyche of Americans and invite more encroachment on our personal freedoms, we need to at least talk honestly about who and what we are dealing with. Yes, groups like ISIS are still a threat. Yes, there have been a few examples

in the last 10 years of attacks by foreigners, but the biggest threat is an ideological war, one that invites US citizens and often veterans like Jabbar to a cause and to find purpose through violence. These are the scenarios we see again and again and the ones we most need to find a way to address. All right, that is it for my take today. I'm gonna send it back to John for the rest of the podcast

and I'll see you guys tomorrow. Have a good one, peace. We'll be right back after this quick break. Thanks Isaac. Here's your Under the Radar story for today, folks. Apple has agreed to pay $95 million to settle a proposed class action lawsuit over allegations that the company's voice-activated digital assistant, Siri, violated user privacy. The suit claimed that Apple regularly recorded conversations after users inadvertently activated Siri using basic voice prompts or wake words. Information from the unauthorized recordings was then allegedly sold to third parties,

leading users to see advertisements for products they had recently been discussing without knowing their device was recording them. While Apple continues to deny any wrongdoing, the settlement could lead to payouts to tens of millions of users, pending approval by a district judge. Breuters has this story, and there's a link in today's episode description. [♪ music playing. Drum beat. All right, next up is our numbers section.

The number of individuals charged in the United States on offenses related to the Islamic State since 2014 is 246, according to the George Washington University Extremism Tracker. The average age of those charged is 28. The percentage of those charged who were accused of involvement in plots to carry out attacks on US soil is 28%. The number of IS-related arrests in the US in 2024 is 14, according to the Islamic State Select Worldwide Activity Map. The number of those arrests that involved attack plots against the US is 5. The number of IS-related

arrests in the US in 2023 was 9. The number of IS-related arrests in the US in 2023 was nine. The number of IS-related arrests in the US in 2023 that were related to attack plots is zero. The percentage of Americans who say they worry about the possibility of future terrorist attacks in the US, a fair amount or a great deal, is 66%, according to a March 2024 Gallup poll. And the percentage of Americans who said they worried about the possibility of future terrorist attacks in the U.S. in March of 2014 was 63%.

Alright, and last but not least, our Have a Nice Day story. Jessica Rivera had a special Christmas wish. She asked listeners of the radio station The Fish, Atlanta, to send holiday cards to her son Logan, who was stationed at an Air Force base in California. She was invited on air to thank listeners for their generosity, but behind the scenes a bigger surprise was brewing. The radio station had arranged with Air Force officials for Logan to come home for Christmas, and he surprised his mom on the air.

Good News Network has this story and there's a link in today's episode description. Alright everybody, that is it for today's episode. As always, if you'd like to support our work, please go to readtangle.com and sign up for a membership. You can also go to tanglemedia.supercast.com and sign up for a premium podcast membership, which gets you ad-free daily podcasts, Friday editions, Sunday editions, interviews, bonus content, and so much more. Glad to be back with you on the mic and we'll be right back here tomorrow.

For Isaac and the rest of the crew, this is John Law signing off. Have a great day, y'all. Peace. Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul, and edited and engineered by Duke Thomas. Our script is edited by Ari Weitzman, Will Kavak, Gellysol, and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was made by Magdalena Bikova, who is also our social media manager. The music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75.

And if you're looking for more from Tangle, please go check out our website at www.reedtangle.com. That's www.reedtangle.com.