Tangle - The SAVE Act and government funding.

Starting point is 00:00:00 From Searchlight Pictures comes A Real Pain, one of the most moving and funny films of the year. Written and directed by Oscar-nominated Jesse Eisenberg and starring Eisenberg and Emmy Award winner Kieran Culkin, A Real Pain is a comedy about mismatched cousins who reunite for a tour through Poland to honor their beloved grandmother. The adventure takes a turn when the pair's old tensions resurface against the backdrop of their family history. A Real Pain was one of the buzziest titles at Sundance Film Festival this year, garnering rave reviews and acclaim from both critics and audiences alike. See A Real Pain only in theaters November 15th.

Starting point is 00:00:34 Got a mortgage? Chances are you're thinking about your payments right now. Need help? Ask your bank about relief measures that may be available to you. Learn more at Canada.ca slash it pays to know. A message from the Government of Canada. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu,

Starting point is 00:00:54 a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. thinking and a little bit of my take. I'm your host, Isaac Saltland. On today's episode, we're going to be talking about the new spending bill, the continuing resolution, the stopgap funding bill, whatever you want to call it, and the SAVE Act, which Republicans

Starting point is 00:01:53 tried to tie to that bill. The SAVE Act, to remind you, is basically a bill that requires proof of citizenship to vote or to register to vote. We're going to talk about that and what it means exactly. Before we jump in, though, I do want to give you a heads up. I am coming to Washington, D.C. On Wednesday, October 9th, I'll be in D.C. to moderate a series of panels on bridging political divides in the United States. The event will feature experts from George Mason, Georgetown American, George Washington, and Johns Hopkins, and it will also include some networking opportunities with the panelists and me. It is free to attend, and you can get tickets to it with a link in today's episode description. So, you know, I know many of you who are in the D.C. area have asked for a Tangle event there.

Starting point is 00:02:40 This is not that, but it's maybe the next best thing. I'm going to come do something on bipartisanship, and I'm looking forward to it. I think it's going to be really interesting. We need people to come attend and sign up and get their tickets in order to actually throw the event, even though it's free. So if you are interested, you should check out that link and consider coming. All right, with that out of the way, I'm going to send it to John for today's main story, and we'll be back with my take. Thanks, Isaac, and welcome, everybody. Here are your quick hits for today. First up, the Israeli military said it carried out airstrikes on more than 1,300 locations targeting Hezbollah's military infrastructure.

Starting point is 00:03:25 The strikes killed approximately 500 people, including dozens of women and children, and wounded more than 1,600. Separately, the Pentagon announced the U.S. is sending a small number of additional troops to the Middle East as the conflict in Lebanon escalates. Number two, federal prosecutors revealed that the suspect in the attempted assassination of former President Donald Trump had written a letter earlier this month detailing his plans before the incident. Prosecutors said they planned to charge the suspect with attempting to assassinate Trump. Number three, the U.S. Commerce Department proposed a ban on Chinese software and hardware in vehicles with connected car technology, which would effectively bar Chinese cars and trucks from the U.S. market.

Starting point is 00:04:07 Number four, Telegram CEO Pavel Durov said the messaging app will begin providing users IP addresses and phone numbers to authorities in response to valid legal requests less than a month after Durov was arrested on charges of complicity in illegal content on the platform. And number five, the latest New York Times-CNN polling shows former President Trump leading Vice President Harris in Arizona, Georgia, and North Carolina. Now to Capitol Hill, where Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson has unveiled his new plan to avoid a partial government shutdown by October 1st. The limited continuing resolution would fund the government until December 20th. It includes $231 million for Secret Service funding following

Starting point is 00:05:01 the recent assassination attempt against Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump. House Speaker Mike Johnson announced yesterday that congressional leaders reached an agreement on a three-month stopgap measure. This would tee up a spending fight on Capitol Hill just ahead of the holidays. The government is currently on track to run out of money just over a week from today. On Sunday, congressional leaders introduced a bipartisan spending bill to fund federal agencies until December 20th, avoiding a government shutdown when the new fiscal year begins on October 1st. The agreement announced by Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, the Democrat from New York, and House Speaker Mike Johnson will fund

Starting point is 00:05:41 federal agencies at their current levels with a provision for $231 million in additional funding for the U.S. Secret Service, pushing negotiations over the full-year spending bill until after the election. Previous iterations of the spending bill tied temporary government funding to the passage of the SAVE Act, which would require citizens to provide proof of citizenship when registering to vote. Citizenship is already a requirement to vote, but the SAVE Act would amend an existing law to add new documentation requirements. It also requires states to establish a process for citizens who cannot provide documentary proof of their citizenship to be able to submit other documentation to register to vote. On September 18th, the House voted 220 to 202 against the spending deal, paired with the SAVE Act, with every Democrat and 14 Republicans voting against it.

Starting point is 00:06:29 Speaker Johnson then dropped the SAVE Act from the spending bill to gain the necessary bipartisan support, despite objections from the Republican Party's conservative flank and presidential nominee, Donald Trump. Representative Steve Scalise said House Republicans plan to vote on the bill under suspension, which would require support from two-thirds of the House to pass rather than a simple majority. The situation mirrors a similar showdown between Johnson and the conservative House Freedom Caucus in January this year, once again prompting the Speaker to choose between aligning with Democrats or the party's conservative bloc. In a letter to his colleagues, Johnson called the decision to leave out the SAVE Act not the solution any of us would prefer, adding that a government shutdown before the election would be political malpractice. Meanwhile, House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries said that Congress is on a bipartisan path to avoid a government shutdown, signaling his conference's

Starting point is 00:07:20 willingness to cooperate. Speaker Johnson referred to the bill as very bare bones with only a few additions. The bill requires the Secret Service to cooperate with congressional investigations in order to receive its funding increase and also provides funding to aid with disaster relief and the presidential transition. A House vote on the new spending deal could come as soon as Wednesday. Today, we'll take a look at what the right and the left are saying about the spending bill and then Isaac's take. We'll be right back after this quick commercial break. From Searchlight Pictures comes A Real Pain, one of the most moving and funny films of the year. Written and directed by Oscar-nominated Jesse Eisenberg and starring Eisenberg and Emmy Award winner Kieran Culkin,

Starting point is 00:08:12 A Real Pain is a comedy about mismatched cousins who reunite for a tour through Poland to honor their beloved grandmother. The adventure takes a turn when the pair's old tensions resurface against the backdrop of their family history. A Real Pain was one of the buzziest titles at Sundance Film Festival this year, garnering rave reviews and acclaim from both critics and audiences alike. See A Real Pain only in theaters November 15th. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history,

Starting point is 00:08:53 and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. Alright, first up, let's start with what the right is saying. The right says the funding showdown underscores how ineffective this Congress has been. Some criticize Republican leadership for failing to fight for their priorities. Others say the SAVE Act is common sense legislation that should be passed. The Washington Examiner editorial board argued, this Congress has failed.

Starting point is 00:09:26 Let the next one fund the government. Fourteen House Republicans voted no and two voted present on a sensible continuing resolution bill to keep the government operating through next March while ensuring that only U.S. citizens can vote in this fall's election. Their obstinacy, combined with that of all but three Democrats, killed the bill for now and made another stupid government shutdown more likely when the fiscal year ends on September 30th, the board wrote. The 16 Republicans are mostly the usual suspects more interested in theater than good governance or achievable conservative results. These Republicans play the part of Schumer's useful idiots. Whereas a continuing resolution would keep spending within the last budget deal's mild limits, Schumer wants more spending.

Starting point is 00:10:06 He knows he can, as always, blame a shutdown on Republicans who couldn't even get a majority of their own leadership's continuing resolution, the board said. Now that a short-term funding bill has failed, it's time to move to a longer spending bill. A six-month continuing resolution would push the battle over 2025 spending into next Congress, rather than leaving it in the hands of this year's infamously ineffective Congress. In town hall, Representative Andy Biggs wrote, You can't win a budget battle you're not willing to fight. If the Speaker and the House Republicans truly desire that the SAVE Act receive a Senate vote, and more pointedly, be passed and sent to the desk of Joe Biden for consideration, the Speaker would have voiced that demand. He would have been jawboning for that during the seven-week recess. In fact, he would

Starting point is 00:10:49 have demanded that last week in July, Biggs said. The Speaker never, to my knowledge, publicly or behind closed doors, stated that his objective was to actually see that the SAVE Act was passed or that it even got a Senate vote. Further, someone who really truly wanted the SAVE Act would not have weakened his position. He would not have foreclosed any stick or carrot to obtain his objective. But the Speaker said he would never shut down the government. In fact, by sending Schumer the CR plus SAVE,

Starting point is 00:11:16 the Speaker actually gave Schumer a continuation of the spending levels and policies that Schumer and leftists want, Biggs wrote. What Americans needed was a willingness to fight to get the SAVE Act passed. And you don't want to fight that you aren't fighting. And giving Schumer his spending and his policies without condition isn't fighting. It's capitulation. In red state, Brandon Moore said, there's no excuse to not pass the SAVE Act. The SAVE Act is probably one of the most important things we could do to help our election stay secure and as free of fraud as possible.

Starting point is 00:11:47 This is a no-brainer. Passing this would solve the problem of people voting who shouldn't, which is a chief concern for many. No one should be opposing this, and anyone who is is highly suspect of wanting fraud to happen, Morse wrote. While it's illegal for a non-citizen to vote already, an illegal citizen voting in our elections is as easy as checking a box that says you're a citizen in much the same way a child can get access to a porn site by claiming he or she is over the age of 18. Democrats claim this isn't necessary, saying that the trust-me-bro method is good enough

Starting point is 00:12:17 and that non-citizens could face up to five years in prison for violating election laws. The issue is that Democrats aren't even imprisoning illegals for assaulting people, including police officers, Morse said. for violating election laws. The issue is that Democrats aren't even imprisoning illegals for assaulting people, including police officers, Morse said. The other argument from Democrats is that the SAVE Act is, of course, racist because it disadvantages minorities. How would it make it harder for people of color to vote or to get registration to do so? No one ever says. It's been suggested that minority communities are too ignorant to understand how to get registered,

Starting point is 00:12:44 which is an insanely racist thing to understand how to get registered, which is an insanely racist thing to suggest, but even then, I'm not sure that this is a valid enough excuse to leave our system wide open for fraud. Alright, that is it for what the right is saying, which brings us to what the left is saying. The left admonishes House Republicans for another funding fight that benefits no one. Some say the GOP continues to show it is not capable of governing. Others call the SAVE Act a pander to Trump to solve a non-existent problem. The Bloomberg editorial board said the latest shutdown fight feels awfully familiar.

Starting point is 00:13:29 The idea for House Speaker Mike Johnson was to give his more fanatical Republican colleagues a chance to vent about immigration before moving on to a more realistic bill, the board wrote. Then Donald Trump chimed in. Selfish and destructive as ever, he raged on social media, demanded that Congress pass the citizenship measure, and seemed to endorse a shutdown if he didn't get his way. Johnson duly pulled the resolution, and here we are, no progress, with the clock ticking. Meanwhile, the country's real problems are getting worse. Budget showdowns of this kind, whether over funding bills or the statutory debt ceiling, are an ugly way to make policy, but they can succeed in restraining spending if negotiated

Starting point is 00:14:02 prudently. Johnson's predecessor, Kevin McCarthy, secured $1.5 trillion in deficit reductions over a decade during last year's debt limit negotiations. This is not that. Johnson won't win any good-faith concessions from Democrats by attaching a hopeless, unrelated citizenship measure to this bill, the board said. Yet a sustained effort to cut spending is indeed necessary. America's current fiscal trajectory simply isn't sustainable. In MSNBC, Hayes Brown wrote, the House GOP has concepts of a plan to prevent a shutdown. This plan was always destined to fail, and Johnson knew it. House leadership had already pulled the bill from the floor last week when it became obvious it lacked the Republican support necessary to pass, Brown said. And as has often been the case with the GOP majority, the objections

Starting point is 00:14:49 came from two different wings of Johnson's caucus. On one hand, you have the far-right members of the chaos caucus who are opposed to the current spending levels continuing without reductions. Republican defense hawks, on the other hand, were mad at the idea of not raising defense spending for a full half year. Democrats, meanwhile, weren't about to support the SAVE Act, which would impose new hurdles on registering to vote to supposedly prevent the illegal and extremely rare act of non-citizens attempting to cast a ballot, Brown wrote. Even if the GOP had managed to pass the bill, it would be dead on arrival in the Democratic-controlled Senate and face a veto if it somehow reached President Joe Biden's desk. We've been through this exact scenario too many times to now assume that Republicans will learn their lesson based on this embarrassment.

Starting point is 00:15:35 The New York Daily News editorial board argued Mike Johnson's non-citizen voting bill is not about integrity. That Johnson described non-citizen voting as the most pressing issue right now goes to show not only how out of touch his wing of the Republican Party is with ordinary voters, who are by and large concerned with things like the cost of child care and food, but with reality itself, the board said. We challenge Johnson or any of his backers to produce evidence, any evidence, that non-citizen registration or voting is a significant issue in any respect. It is both exceedingly rare and, in such cases when it happens, almost invariably the result of confusion or misinformation as opposed to ill intent. This is one of the

Starting point is 00:16:16 relatively few crimes where the perpetrator is expected to sign their full name and address to it and where it is quite easy to check if they've committed the offense. Johnson is pushing to solve a problem that doesn't exist, but the reasons go beyond simple political posturing, the board wrote. The reason is that every election integrity effort Donald Trump and his allies undertake inevitably ends up targeted and making voting itself more difficult, particularly for the folks they don't really want voting. All right, let's head over to Isaac for his take. All right, that is it for what the left and the right are saying, which brings us to my take. So listen, the government funding debate at this point is so torturous, dramatized, and redundant that I'm actually going to mostly talk about the SAVE Act here, which I think is actually pretty interesting.

Starting point is 00:17:13 So a few weeks ago, I had a conversation with some friends about a new program at NYU that provides free tuition for any student who comes from a household earning less than $100,000 per year. for any student who comes from a household earning less than $100,000 per year. I asked my friends what percentage of American households, that is combined income for everyone in the house, they thought earned more than $100,000 per year. The answers varied from about 45% to 80%. The real answer is 37% of Americans are living in households that make more than $100,000 a year. I see this theme pretty consistently from politicians, pundits, and more educated Americans who spend their day debating politics. They typically think other Americans have a lot more than they do. This is a relevant point in a discussion about voter fraud, too, where many Americans ask questions like, who doesn't have a photo ID? Or,

Starting point is 00:18:05 who can't prove they are a citizen when they want to vote? The answer to both is probably more than you think. For instance, almost 1 in 10 American citizens of voting age, that's roughly 21 million people, don't have proof of citizenship readily available. When pundits like Brandon Morse from Red State, under what the right is saying, say that anyone who opposes the SAVE Act is highly suspect of wanting fraud to happen, it is partisan nonsense. I care a great deal about voter fraud and election fraud, so much so that I've dedicated literally hundreds of thousands of words to it, and I oppose the passage of the SAVE Act. Not because I want voter fraud to be easy,

Starting point is 00:18:48 but because it's a half-baked, poorly written messaging bill that isn't designed to become law. It's designed to let writers like Morris claim that Democrats want non-citizens voting. Here's how it works right now. If you go to register to vote, the federal government requires you sign an attestation under penalty of perjury that you are a U.S. citizen. States then validate

Starting point is 00:19:05 applicants' information against government data to ensure they are citizens living in the place they say they are. Some states have stricter requirements or have attempted to introduce new ones, but broadly this is the requirement under federal law. The system works pretty well, which isn't surprising. Non-citizens, when they are here legally or illegally, are not particularly keen on risking deportation, arrest, or jail time to cast a single ballot. Try to imagine a non-citizen who cares enough to vote illegally and is willing to risk being thrown in jail or booted from the country. The center of the Venn diagram is pretty small. We know this, by the way. This is not a presumption. Dozens of studies, including from conservative groups, have affirmed it,

Starting point is 00:19:47 as have law enforcement records in states that have spent millions investigating voter fraud and voter data in states where new laws have been introduced. Now, the SAVE Act would require individuals to provide proof of citizenship when registering to vote. According to the Bipartisan Policy Center, eligible documents include a real ID compliant identification indicating U.S. citizenship, a valid U.S. passport, military ID, and service record, a government-issued photo ID showing U.S. birthplace, or a government-issued photo ID that does not indicate birthplace or citizenship, and a valid secondary document. This seems like a common-sense proposal, and in theory,

Starting point is 00:20:26 much like voter ID, I support it wholeheartedly. Why wouldn't I want people to prove they're citizens to register to vote? We can find the answer in Arizona, which began requiring proof of citizenship to vote in 2004. In 2013, the Supreme Court ruled that those additional documentation requirements were preempted by existing law and violated the Voting Rights Act. Arizona then created a federal-only list to prevent some voters from casting ballots in state elections, while allowing voters who could not provide proof of citizenship to vote only in federal elections. What Arizona learned was that the people on that list were typically not non-citizens, but college students, homeless people, and other transient

Starting point is 00:21:05 populations who were trying to vote but were less likely to have documentation than non-citizens. Along the way, they complicated their voter rolls, which have now been bifurcated into voters who cast ballots in state elections or voters who cast ballots in federal elections. The problem is so bad that this year nearly 100,000 Arizona voters were almost inadvertently prevented from voting in state and local races this fall. Now, the SAVE Act that Republicans are trying to pass would instruct states to implement a process where citizens who don't have proof of citizenship can submit other documentation and sign an attestation under penalty of perjury to vote in federal elections. The bill's net effect is to add new administrative

Starting point is 00:21:45 costs and requirements for state-level election officials to just recreate the system we already have, all with the risk of complicating the system or disenfranchising voters like we've seen in Arizona. This is not a good use of your taxpayer dollars. On top of all of this, the SAVE Act becomes effective on the date of enactment, giving states no time to update their processes, voter rolls, or systems. The good news is we have much better options available, like improved data sharing across states, which makes it even easier to determine someone's eligibility to vote. State-level action to require proof of citizenship by cross-checking voter information so states can implement their own systems for citizens who struggle to prove citizenship would be better than any federal action. But again, states risk

Starting point is 00:22:29 running into issues like we saw in Arizona. Some states are already doing this. Others, like Texas, found 7,000 non-citizens who were registered to vote over three years by simply cleaning up their voter rolls. A photo ID requirement paired with a government-provided identification is also a good option. What we don't need is clunky, vague federal laws implemented hastily to throw the system into chaos and probably block out millions of eligible voters in an election year. As for the continuing resolution, it's just hard to find the words anymore. House Republicans do not seem capable of governing while Democrats continue to spend as if the federal debt doesn't matter. Newsflash, it does.

Starting point is 00:23:07 Republicans once again did a weeks-long dance about threatening to shut the government down, which everyone knew and predicted would end just like this. Instead of any real debate about how to save the government money in places where we spend the most, like Social Security, healthcare, and the military, the two sides wasted weeks doing a bunch of TV hits, then ordered more of the same, but with a side of pork for the Secret Service. What was the point, again? Didn't Speaker Johnson say he'd emphasize voting on appropriations bills individually? It shouldn't feel like a pipe dream to imagine a functional Congress, but here we are.

Starting point is 00:24:07 We'll be right back after this quick break. You're going the wrong way. Feeling distracted? You're not alone. Whether renting, considering buying a home, or renewing a mortgage, many Canadians are finding it hard to focus with housing costs on their minds. For free tools and resources to help you manage your home finances and clear your head, visit Canada.ca slash ItPaysToKnow. A message from the Government of Canada. From Searchlight Pictures comes A Real Pain, one of the most moving and funny films of the year. Written and directed by Oscar-nominated Jesse Eisenberg and starring Eisenberg and Emmy Award winner Kieran Culkin, A Real Pain is a comedy about mismatched cousins who reunite for a tour through Poland to honor their beloved grandmother.

Starting point is 00:24:40 The adventure takes a turn when the pair's old tensions resurface against the backdrop of their family history. A Real Pain was one of the buzziest titles at Sundance Film Festival this year, garnering rave reviews and acclaim from both critics and audiences alike. See A Real Pain only in theaters November 15th. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. All right, that is it for it with the left or the right are saying, which brings us to your

Starting point is 00:25:31 questions answered. And today we have one of our notes to self. This one was a note to self that we wrote a while back to follow up on the Ben Sasse story. In case you missed it, in an under the radar feature in August, we linked to a story from the University of Florida student newspaper about former Nebraska Senator Ben Sasse stepping down from his position as University of Florida president. In that edition, we wrote that Sasse cited his wife's health as his reason for leaving, but he had also come under fire after tripling his office's annual spending from $5.6 million to $7.3 million in his first year, while awarding lucrative contracts to big-name consulting firms and high-salaried remote positions to his former U.S. Senate staff and Republican officials. A few readers wrote in to say that we should follow up on the story once we got more information, in light of a statement Sass released around the same time that we covered in the story.

Starting point is 00:26:25 time that we covered in the story. In a lengthy post on X, Sass defended his decisions by saying that important initiatives like the ones he had taken up require funding, and that it's not uncommon to hire trusted staff from previous roles to lead those initiatives. Sass may have a point in general, but it's hard to see how it carries water when you look at his specific situation. He doubled or tripled university salaries for posts he hired former staffers to fill, spent $4.7 million, that's 83% of his predecessor's total budget, on a report from McKinsey, and will continue to earn $1 million a year from the university in a professor emeritus and board of advisors position. As Jeremiah Poff wrote in the Washington Examiner, reforming higher education did not require him to spend millions of

Starting point is 00:27:05 dollars to increase the salaries of his former staff. It also did not require him to spend millions on expensive consultants or a threefold increase in travel expenditures for his office. In sum, I don't think this story looks much better for SAS today than it did a few weeks ago. All right, that is it for the reader question section today. So I'm going to send it back to John for the rest of the pod, and I'll see you guys tomorrow. Thanks, Isaac. Here's your under the radar story for today, folks. Officials in Pinal County, Arizona are working to combat skepticism about the integrity of their election system by providing new levels of visibility into the process.

Starting point is 00:27:45 Since the 2020 election, Pinal County has built a $32 million election headquarters with halls of windows to allow observers to easily watch the vote counting while adding scores of cameras throughout the inside and outside of the building. Election workers will also attach GPS devices onto the cages that transport equipment

Starting point is 00:28:04 and ballots to and from polling sites, and the wiring from machine tabulators will run through transparent grates instead of drywall to prove the machines are not connected to the internet. When you know in your soul there's nothing to hide, being open about the process is a no-brainer, said Pinal County recorder Dana Lewis. The Washington Post has this story, and there's a link in today's episode description. All right, next up is our numbers section. The number of appropriations bills out of 12 passed by the House this year is five. The number of those appropriations bills passed by the Senate this year is zero. The number of years in a row that Congress will have passed zero out of 12 appropriation bills to fund the government by the October 1st deadline

Starting point is 00:28:49 is six if it fails to do so this year. The percentage of U.S. federal debt held by the public in 2000 is 33.7 percent. The percentage of U.S. federal debt held by the public in 2024 is 99 percent. The number of votes suspected to have been cast illegally in the 2016 election out of a sample of 23.5 million votes in 42 jurisdictions is 30, according to a study from the Brennan Center for Justice. The number of confirmed cases of non-citizens voting between 2002 and 2022 is 85, according to the Heritage Foundation. And the percentage of Americans who say they are concerned about non-citizens voting in the 2024 election is 51%, according to a September 2024 poll from Scripps News Ipsos.

Starting point is 00:29:40 All right, and last but not least, our Have a Nice Day story. From 1979 to 2009, social psychologist Sarah Conrath found a decline in empathy among young people. Yet, when her research was expanded to include data up to 2018, she and her research team discovered that American college students and high school seniors are demonstrating increasing levels of empathy. The study showed these teenagers and young adults sought to understand others' perspectives and exhibited compassion for others at higher rates than in previous years. CNN has this story, and there's a link in today's episode description. All right, everybody, that is it for today's episode. As always, if you'd like to support our work, please go to retangle.com and sign up for a membership. We'll be right back here tomorrow. For Isaac and the rest of the crew,

Starting point is 00:30:28 this is John Wall signing off. Have a by our managing editor, Ari Weitzman, Will Kedak, Bailey Saul, and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was designed by Magdalena Bokova, who is also our social media manager. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet75. And if you're looking for more from Tangle, please go to readtangle.com and check out our website.

Tangle - The SAVE Act and government funding.

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