Tangle - The Trump-Arlington Cemetery Controversy

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Starting point is 00:01:12 From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tangle Podcast, the place we get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of my take. I'm your host, Isaac Saul, and on today's episode, we're going to be talking about the Arlington Cemetery controversy and Donald Trump. Before we jump in to that story, I want to give you a quick heads up that we have something special going on right now.

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Starting point is 00:03:28 with dashes in between, and you can find the 20% off there. All right, with that out of the way, I'm going to pass it off to John to break down today's main story, and then I'll be back for my take. Thanks, Isaac, and welcome, everybody. Here are your quick hits for today.

Starting point is 00:03:58 First up, a Russian airstrike on a Ukrainian military institute in a nearby hospital killed at least 50 people and wounded 270 others. It is the deadliest single attack in the war this year. attack in the war this year. Separately, Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba submitted his resignation, the latest in a series of shakeups in President Volodymyr Zelensky's wartime administration. Number two, federal prosecutors charged a former aide to New York Governor Kathy Hochul and Governor Andrew Cuomo with acting as an illegal agent of the Chinese government. Number three, the DNC and the Harris campaign said it directed $25 million of their fundraising to down-ballot races. Number four, the United Kingdom suspended 30 of its 350 arms export licenses with Israel. Separately, the U.S. Justice Department charged Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar and five other militants with terrorism. And number five, Kamala Harris is expected to propose a $50,000 tax break for small businesses as part of her economic plan.

Starting point is 00:04:57 Last week, Donald Trump tarnished the sacred ground of Arlington National Cemetery, filming and posting campaign images taken from those hallowed grounds in violation of both the cemetery's rules and federal law. Criticism facing the Trump campaign has persisted in the weeks since an altercation between staff and Arlington National Cemetery personnel happened. The former president is defending his campaign's actions. Last week, NPR reported that an official at the Arlington National Cemetery, one of two cemeteries maintained by the U.S. Army, had a confrontation with Trump campaign staff members who were filming and taking photos

Starting point is 00:05:33 in a restricted area of the cemetery. That area, named Section 60, is reserved for soldiers killed while serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. Arlington has strict rules against photography and filming for political purposes in the cemetery, and NPR reported that ANC officials told Trump staffers that only ANC staff were permitted to take photos in Section 60. Trump was invited by a group of

Starting point is 00:05:56 Gold Star families to attend a wreath-laying ceremony at Arlington Cemetery to commemorate the third anniversary of the attack at Abbey Gate in Afghanistan. The attack occurred during the Biden administration's widely criticized withdrawal from Afghanistan when a suicide bomber set off an explosive device that killed 13 members of the U.S. military and about 170 Afghan civilians. After NPR's report on the incident, the Army released a statement saying that a staffer was trying to enforce rules prohibiting political activities in Section 60 when she was pushed aside. Participants in the August 26 ceremony and the subsequent Section 60 visit were made aware of federal laws, Army regulations, and DOD policies which clearly prohibit political activities on cemetery grounds, the statement said. An ANC employee who attempted to ensure adherence to these rules was abruptly pushed aside.

Starting point is 00:06:44 An ANC employee who attempted to ensure adherence to these rules was abruptly pushed aside. Consistent with the decorum expected at ANC, this employee acted with professionalism and avoided further disruption. The Trump administration described the incident differently. The fact is that a private photographer was permitted on the premises and, for whatever reason, an unnamed individual, clearly suffering from a mental health episode, decided to physically block members of President Trump's team during a very solemn ceremony, Stephen Chung, the communications director, said in a statement. Chung also posted a screenshot on social media of a message that he says showed confirmation Trump was granted permission to have an official photographer and or videographer outside the main media pool. In a brief statement, Arlington National Cemetery confirmed that there was an incident and a report was filed. Vice President Kamala Harris issued a statement over the weekend saying Arlington National Cemetery is not a place for politics and that

Starting point is 00:07:33 Trump disrespected sacred ground all for the sake of a political stunt. Several gold star families of service members killed in the Abbey Gate attack responded by defending Trump and criticizing Harris, saying she was using the incident for political gain and accusing the Biden-Harris administration of dodging accountability for the death of their children. How do you sleep at night knowing it was you, this administration, you and Biden, you being the last one in the room, are responsible for the death of our 13 kids, Jim McCollum, Gold Star father of Lance Corporal Riley McCollum said in a video, you have failed for three years and eight months to acknowledge our kids, to acknowledge me. You

Starting point is 00:08:10 have failed in your duty as vice president. Today, we're going to break down some of the arguments about the incident and Abbey Gate from the left and the right, and then Isaac's take. We'll be right back after this quick break. Are you sure you parked over here? Do you see it anywhere? I think it's back this way. Come on. Hey, you're going the wrong way. Feeling distracted? You're not alone. Whether renting, considering buying a home, or renewing a mortgage, many Canadians are finding it hard to focus with housing costs on their minds.

Starting point is 00:08:55 For free tools and resources to help you manage your home finances and clear your head, visit Canada.ca slash ItPaysToKnow. A message from the Government of Canada. From Searchlight Pictures comes A Real Pain, one of the most moving and funny films of the year. Written and directed by Oscar-nominated Jesse Eisenberg and starring Eisenberg and Emmy Award winner Kieran Culkin, A Real Pain is a comedy about mismatched cousins

Starting point is 00:09:20 who reunite for a tour through Poland to honor their beloved grandmother. The adventure takes a turn when the pair's old tensions resurface against the backdrop of their family history. A Real Pain was one of the buzziest titles at Sundance Film Festival this year, garnering rave reviews and acclaim from both critics and audiences alike. See A Real Pain only in theaters November 15th. All right, first up, let's start with what the left is saying. The left is outraged by the story arguing Trump blatantly disregarded the law for a political stunt. Some suggest the army was unwise to allow Trump any level of access to the cemetery.

Starting point is 00:10:04 Others say Trump's actions are consistent with his past disrespect of the military. In The Guardian, Kevin Carroll called the incident shocking, but not surprising. Donald Trump and his staff knew, and were reminded of, federal regulations specifically prohibiting the misconduct their campaign engaged in at Arlington Cemetery Section 60 this week. But the law aside, only a gross lack of manners, decency, and humility could incline a person to film a fundraising appeal over the resting places of dead men and women who cannot decline to participate in the coarse spectacle. The photo of a grinning Trump giving a jaunting thumbs up over these patriots' graves is an indelible image of narcissism risen to the point of sociopathy. This ugly incident would have derailed the candidacy of any presidential nominee before Trump's crude emergence on the American political scene in 2016,

Starting point is 00:10:50 but it is a pattern of disrespect for and misuse of the United States military that bears upon Trump's fitness to serve again as president, Carroll wrote. Trump sees the armed services as yet another entity to be misused for his personal benefit, damaged, and then discarded, just as he has with his bankrupt businesses, the evangelical Christian churches, and the Republican Party. His poor form at Arlington this week therefore shocks but does not surprise, as the idea of serving others, much less giving one's life for others, is anathema to Trump. In Bloomberg, Francis Wilkinson said,

Starting point is 00:11:24 Blame Trump's Arlington disgrace on the Army's naivete. Federal law, Army regulations, and Defense Department policy prohibit political campaigning or election activities within Army cemeteries. Yet the Army allowed the Trump circus, video camera in tow, on cemetery grounds. Since the chances of Trump engaging in good faith were negligible, that was the Army's first mistake. Predictably, Trump then used Arlington as the set for a partisan attack on

Starting point is 00:11:50 President Joe Biden over the 2021 U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan, Wilkinson wrote. Consistent with the degradation that flows daily from Trump and Viron's, high-ranking Trump campaign officials described the cemetery employee who had tried to enforce the law as a despicable individual who was suffering from a mental health episode. The Trump campaign breaks the law to perpetrate a cheap political hit. The Pentagon retreats. Trump thugs engage in an altercation with a cemetery employee trying to honor both the law and the dead. The Pentagon acquiesces, Wilkinson said. Perhaps the army has grown morally flabby since the end of the Cold War,

Starting point is 00:12:25 incapable of articulating democratic principles or of denouncing depravity. Or perhaps, with Trump running within the margin of error of a return to the White House, the army is hedging its political bets. In MSNBC, Brandon Friedman, a combat veteran, wrote about why Trump's Arlington stunt was so insulting. I am old, but I have friends who are still in their 20s, friends who should be in their 40s. Some of them are buried at Arlington National Cemetery. That's what makes Arlington so special. And for those of us who served in Afghanistan and Iraq,

Starting point is 00:12:56 Section 60, the burial site of hundreds of service members killed in those wars, is the inner sanctum, Friedman said. And that is why Donald Trump's recent behavior is so repulsive. Trump was so eager to use Arlington Section 60 as a backdrop for a campaign event this week that he may have broken federal laws against politicizing the burial ground to do it. Of course, Trump's disregard for military tradition and his disdain for military service members is well documented. This incident was only the latest in a long line, Friedman wrote.

Starting point is 00:13:26 This man harbors deep resentment toward the military and those who sacrificed in service. Even when he poses with a family, as he did at Arlington this week, he only does so to enhance his campaign or his political prospects. Trump's use for the military and our dead extends only as far as it suits him. All right, that is it for what the left is saying, which brings us to what the right is saying. The right mostly backs Trump, viewing the incident as ginned-up controversy. Some say Democrats in the media are being deliberately deceptive about the facts of the story. Others criticize Trump for the political nature of the visit.

Starting point is 00:14:14 The New York Post editorial board said the Arlington incident shows media falling into the same old Trump derangement syndrome. You'd think after a decade of covering Donald Trump's political career, the media would have learned some lessons. You'd be wrong. you'd be wrong. The coverage of the Arlington National Cemetery controversy shows the press using the same overwrought language, anonymous sources, and liberal critics that they constantly return to, despite being proven wrong time and again, the board wrote. The family members of the fallen soldiers are the ones who matter most in this scenario. If they aren't angry or offended, how is this even a story? In the end, this turned out to be a single disagreement between one Trump staffer and one Arlington employee. The press nonetheless turned it into a scandal of the month.

Starting point is 00:14:50 This has happened so often it's become a cliche, the board said. The media have not changed, but the voters have. They've stopped believing the blindly sourced conspiracies and the vaunted claims about broken norms, and journalists only have themselves to blame. In PJ Media, Matt Margolis argued, Democrats are the ones politicizing Trump's visit to Arlington. Former President Donald Trump's visit to Arlington National Cemetery on August 26th was a poignant gesture meant to honor the 13 service members killed in the disastrous Abbey Gate terrorist bombing during Joe Biden's botched withdrawal from Afghanistan, Margolis wrote.

Starting point is 00:15:26 And the left just couldn't handle it. True to form, the left couldn't resist the opportunity to scandalize Trump's visit, spinning up a story about an alleged altercation with Trump's staff at Arlington, which the family's president immediately debunked. Naturally, Harris decided to add fuel to the fire. She took to X to condemn Trump,

Starting point is 00:15:44 accusing him of politicizing Arlington. She invoked the debunked suckers and losers hoax, repeating the same tired lies in a transparent attempt to paint Trump as someone who disrespects the military, Margolis said. This isn't just hypocrisy. It's an attempt to cover up her own failures. Instead of owning up to the mistakes

Starting point is 00:16:00 that led to the deaths of those service members and the fall of Afghanistan, she's trying to deflect and distract by scandalizing the visit and attacking Trump. In the dispatch, Nick Catagoggio said the incident is persuasion-proof. The subject of Donald Trump's toothy thumbs-up photo op amid the fallen at Arlington National Cemetery is persuasion-proof. There are already thousands of reasons to despise him. Either you came around to doing so a long time ago, or you've managed to rationalize your way out of each one of them. In which case,

Starting point is 00:16:30 the latest one won't pose any problem, Katagosha wrote. Years ago, it was possible to believe there might be something he could do to alienate his apologists. Callousness towards the military was an obvious one. How naive we were. All this feels familiar, no? Not the setting, that is, but Trump's M.O. It's the classified documents fiasco all over again. He wanted something he couldn't have. That something was minor enough that he calculated the relevant authorities wouldn't go to war with him to block him from getting it. So he simply ignored the rules and dared them to do something about it, Katagosia wrote. If Trump was there to honor the dead rather than to cut a commercial, he could have attended, saluted, consoled the families,

Starting point is 00:17:10 and left the cameras and campaign flunkies at home, and no one would have had any problem. But character, alas, is destiny. All right, let's head over to Isaac for his take. So based on all the reporting and the competing claims, here's the most neutral summary I can offer of what happened. The Abbeygate anniversary was coming up. Gold Star families invited Trump to a wreath-laying ceremony at Arlington Cemetery. Trump accepted the invitation. Trump's team hoped to document the event for a campaign video of some kind. Arlington allowed

Starting point is 00:17:55 Trump to have a photographer outside the media pool at the event, but Trump campaign members also took personal photographs and videos. An Arlington staffer tried to stop the filming, either from the campaign members or professionals, we don't really know, this is very disputed, in Section 60, which is an area where photography was prohibited for this event. There was an altercation, physical or verbal, also unclear, and that story made its way to NPR. You can decide whether this story is a controversy or a nothing burger. Different people will have different sensitivities. Some in the media probably blew this out of proportion while others underplayed or dismissed it. To be clear though, this is not some anonymous

Starting point is 00:18:34 hearsay. The army released a statement confirming the altercation as well as the Trump team's attempt at taking some kind of photography in Section 60. Something clearly happened. Perhaps the biggest issue in trying to figure out exactly what that was is that you just can't trust anything former President Donald Trump says. In just the last few weeks, Trump has made dozens and dozens of absurd claims.

Starting point is 00:18:58 That he won his classified documents case in Florida. He didn't. That Kamala Harris met with Vladimir Putin before Russia invaded Ukraine. She didn't. That he passed the biggest tax cuts in U.S. history. He didn't. That China is paying billions in tariffs. They aren't. That everyone wanted Roe overturned, which I don't even know what to say to that. That Harris used artificial intelligence to fake crowd sizes. She didn't. That Latin American prisons are being emptied to send people to the U.S. They aren't. Or that global warming will cause the oceans to rise just an eighth of an

Starting point is 00:19:29 inch in 355 years when our oceans are currently rising an eighth of an inch every year. He even told a bizarre story about being in an emergency helicopter landing with former San Francisco mayor Willie Brown, who told him negative stories about Kamala Harris during their flight. He appears to have confused Brown with a different black politician from San Francisco. Harris is a flip-flopper, and Biden often tells incomprehensible and lie-filled stories. But Trump is the Babe Ruth of exaggeration, falsehoods, and lies, or he genuinely believes things that are detached from reality. I don't know which is true, but either way, Trump is a prodigy of distortion. This is not a judgment on his presidency or his policies,

Starting point is 00:20:10 but an honest read on the topic of discussion. Yes, all politicians lie, but no politician I've ever seen says untrue things with the ease, frequency, and repetitiveness that Trump does. All this is to say, when the army releases an official statement saying something happened and the Trump campaign releases a statement

Starting point is 00:20:28 saying it didn't, it's hard not to be skeptical of the Trump team's story. Doubly so when the Trump team initially promises to provide video evidence to support their story and then never does. I'm not sure how much the finer details matter. Whether the Gold Star families wanted the pictures to be taken or whether the altercation was physical or verbal doesn't meaningfully change

Starting point is 00:20:48 my opinion. Section 60 does not just belong to a few families who lost loved ones in Abbey Gate. It is a sacred place for all Gold Star families from Iraq and Afghanistan, some of whom I'm sure were present on that day and wanted nothing to do with a camera or a campaign stop. For instance, one Gold Star family member said her brother's grave was clearly visible in images the Trump campaign released where he is smiling and giving a thumbs up. She was predictably not thrilled. Arlington National Cemetery's rules are publicly accessible. Photography is generally allowed in Arlington, but never for political or campaign material. And according to the ANC, the Trump campaign was informed that only cemetery staff members were authorized to take photos in Section 60. Of course, because it's election season, Kamala Harris tried to make political hay

Starting point is 00:21:36 out of what happened and promptly got eviscerated by the Gold Star families, who are Gold Star families, because of the Biden administration's disastrous Afghanistan withdrawal. Harris got called out for refusing to meet with those families over the last few years, and Trump got praise for continuing to give their story attention. This is all as it should be. It's a good thing that Trump continues to honor the victims of Abbey Gate. The Biden administration's Afghanistan withdrawal that left 13 Americans and 170 Afghans dead and turned the country over to the Taliban is a controversy and failure far more grievous, offensive, and unforgivable than campaigning in Section 60. If you are someone who got more upset about this controversy than about those failures, it's worth a gut check on your own partisan bias.

Starting point is 00:22:21 At the end of the day, none of that excuses Trump or his campaign officials for doing something that is obviously disallowed and disrespectful. We should all be capable of calling out the Biden administration's failures without using those failures to excuse the actions of Trump and his team. We'll be right back after this quick break. We'll be right back after this quick break. Real Pain is a comedy about mismatched cousins who reunite for a tour through Poland to honor their beloved grandmother. The adventure takes a turn when the pair's old tensions resurface against the backdrop of their family history. A Real Pain was one of the buzziest titles at Sundance Film Festival this year, garnering rave reviews and acclaim from both critics and audiences alike. See A Real Pain only in theaters November 15th. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police

Starting point is 00:23:29 procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. Oh, that coffee smells good. Can you pass me the sugar when you're finished? Whoa, whoa, whoa, what are you doing? That's salt, not sugar.

Starting point is 00:23:53 Let's get you another coffee. Feeling distracted? You're not alone. Many Canadians are finding it hard to focus with mortgage payments on their minds. If you're struggling with your payments, speak to your bank. The earlier they understand your situation, the more options and relief measures could be available to you. Learn more at Canada.ca slash it pays to know. A message from the Government of Canada. All right, that is it for my take, which brings us to your questions answered. This one's from Steve in Riverwoods, Illinois.

Starting point is 00:24:38 Steve said, what is your position on whether to publish or not publish the leaked Trump campaign emails? Presumably, you would be in favor, as was done with Clinton and the DNC in 2016. If not, what is different now? So just as a quick catch-up, we recently learned that Iranian agents hacked the Trump campaign's internal documents, releasing them to Politico. This story has been corroborated by the FBI. So far, Politico has reported on a top-level summary of the documents it received, but it has not published them in full. I think that is the right thing to do. I also think that would have been the right thing to do in 2016. As a journalist, I'm caught between a rock and a hard place here. On the one hand, I believe information wants to be free, and I'm often rooting for leaks so that I can read and learn as much as

Starting point is 00:25:19 I can. On the other hand, a lot of privilege information is privileged for a reason, and releasing leaked documents without context can easily be unethical or dangerous. If I were to receive an email from a source I couldn't vet with a trove of documents on the Trump campaign, I would do a few things. First, I'd try as hard as possible to vet and talk to the source to satisfy myself as much as I could that what I had received was real. Second, I would read all of the documents. Third, I would reach out to the Trump campaign for comment on the documents attempting to verify their authenticity

Starting point is 00:25:50 and contextualize what was inside. Then I'd announce what I'd received to everybody, give a summary of the documents I received, and detail any bombshell findings within those documents with the full context of how I received them. Reporters always have to do more than just detail facts. They must provide as much context as possible to help readers understand those facts. When it comes to leaked documents, the person who leaked the document is just as much a part of the story as the subject of the leak itself. You mentioned the Democratic National Committee getting hacked in 2016, and I think the lessons from that incident should be fresh in our minds coming into the 2024 election. Be prepared for foreign meddling, and I think the lessons from that incident should be fresh in our minds coming into

Starting point is 00:26:25 the 2024 election. Be prepared for foreign meddling, and don't assume the motive is one side or the other to win. We know that Russia's playbook is to sow discord, distrust, and chaos by pitting us against each other, and I think the same can be true with Iran. I'm glad you asked this question, because honestly, I have a suspicion this will not be the last we hear of this story. All right, that is it for your questions answered. I'm sending it back to John for the rest of the pod, and I'll see you guys tomorrow. Have a good one. Peace.

Starting point is 00:26:55 Thanks, Isaac. Here's your under-the-radar story for today, folks. In Pennsylvania, it could take days for the presidential election results to be counted. Election officials are blaming state politicians in Harrisburg for the delay, saying an update to the state's election code is needed to expedite the results. Under current law, election officials cannot open mail-in ballots until 7 a.m. on election day, which puts stress on the system. In-person ballots often aren't counted by the time polls close at 8 p.m., which creates a major bottleneck. Pennsylvania House Democrats advanced a bill

Starting point is 00:27:26 that would have allowed an additional week of pre-canvassing ahead of Election Day, but it stalled in the GOP-controlled state Senate, where Republicans wanted to tie the change to new voter ID laws. Meanwhile, litigation over what mail ballots to count and reject is still working its way through the courts. The Philadelphia Inquirer has this story,

Starting point is 00:27:44 and there's a link in today's episode description. All right, next up is our numbers section. The year the first military burial was conducted at Arlington, the confiscated former estate of Confederate General Robert E. Lee, was 1864. The estate became Arlington National Cemetery later that year. The approximate area in acres of Arlington National Cemetery is 624. The area in acres of Section 60 at Arlington is 14. The year the first U.S. service member killed in the Iraq War

Starting point is 00:28:18 was buried in Section 60 was 2003. The approximate number of U.S. service members buried at Section 60 is 900. The approximate number of veterans and eligible dependents buried at Arlington National Cemetery is 400,000. The average number of funerals at Arlington each day is 28. And the approximate number of burials conducted at Arlington each year is 6,900. All right, and last but not least, our have a nice day story. Goodr, a company focused on providing food waste and hunger relief solutions, recently opened a free grocery store at a San Francisco middle school in partnership with Amazon. The two companies also collaborated with the local YMCA, school district, and the city's Department of Children,

Starting point is 00:29:05 Youth, and Family Services to make the project possible. Bayview Hunters Point, the area where the new store is located, is a food desert. Students attending middle school in their area already received free breakfast and lunch, and the new grocery store

Starting point is 00:29:19 will supplement their dinners and other needs. NBC Bay Area has this story, and there's a link in today's episode description. All right, everybody, that's it for today's episode. As always, if you'd like to support our work, please go to retangle.com and sign up for a membership. And just for your information, if you aren't already a member, today's a good day to sign up because we have a 20% off discount as an extended Labor Day sale. So again, hop over to retangle.com and get your 20% off discount on a year's subscription. We'll be right back here

Starting point is 00:29:52 tomorrow. For Isaac and the rest of the crew, this is John Law signing off. Have a great day, y'all. Peace. Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul, and edited and engineered by Duke Thomas. Our script is edited by Ari Weitzman, Will Kabak, Daily Saul, and edited and engineered by Duke Thomas. Our script is edited by Ari Weitzman, Will Kabak, Daley Saul, and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was made by Magdalena Bacoba, who is also our social media manager. The music for the podcast was produced by Diet75. And if you're looking for more from Tangle,

Starting point is 00:30:19 please go check out our website at readtangle.com. That's readtangle.com. That's readtangle.com.

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Tangle - The Trump-Arlington Cemetery Controversy

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