Tangle - Trump's classified documents case delayed indefinitely.

Episode Date: May 13, 2024

Trump's trial delay in Florida. Judge Aileen Cannon, who is presiding over former President Donald Trump's classified documents case, indefinitely postponed his trial last week. The announceme...nt all but assures the trial — once set to begin this month — will not be completed before election day in November.You can read today's podcast⁠ ⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠, our “Under the Radar” story ⁠here and today’s “Have a nice day” story ⁠here⁠.You can watch our latest video, Isaac's interview with former Congressman Ken Buck (CO-04) ⁠here⁠.Check the next episode of our new podcast series, The Undecideds. In episode 3, our focus shifts from Donald Trump toward President Joe Biden. Much has been made in the media about his age and memory and whether he’s cognitively capable of handling another term. But an unanticipated performance at the State of the Union reignited his base and left many questioning that narrative. And while Donald Trump faces a jury of his peers in court, the court of public opinion continues to weigh in on the effectiveness of Biden’s foreign policies, with an eye to the conflicts between Israel and Palestine, Ukraine and Russia, and our own protracted clash at our southern border.  Our undecided voters share their observations on the current commander in chief and how his decisions on the world stage affect their decision in the voting booth. You can listen to Episode 3 ⁠⁠here.⁠⁠Today’s clickables: Some promo (0:58), Quick hits (3:40), Today’s story (5:32), Left’s take (8:43), Right’s take (12:09), Isaac’s take (15:49), Listener question (20:55), Under the Radar (23:39), Numbers (24:20), Have a nice day (25:22)You can subscribe to Tangle by clicking here or drop something in our tip jar by clicking here. Take the survey: Do you think Judge Cannon deserves blame for delays in this case? Let us know!Our podcast is written by Isaac Saul and edited and engineered by Jon Lall. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75. Our newsletter is edited by Managing Editor Ari Weitzman, Will Kaback, Bailey Saul, Sean Brady, and produced in conjunction with Tangle’s social media manager Magdalena Bokowa, who also created our logo.--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tanglenews/message Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Starting point is 00:00:00 Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at flucellvax.ca.
Starting point is 00:01:00 From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tangle podcast, the place we get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of my take. I'm your host, Isaac Saul, and on today's episode, we are going to be talking about the Trump trial delays, specifically the delay in Florida, where Trump's trial now appears to not be happening before the 2024 election. That's his classified documents case. All indications are the trial is just delayed indefinitely. So we're going to talk a little bit about how that happened, what it means, and some opinions about it. Before we jump in, I have a couple quick promos to do. First of all, on Friday, I published a subscribers-only piece arguing against myself, making the case that there should not be a ceasefire in Israel, tried to steel man my opponent's arguments best I could.
Starting point is 00:02:14 I encourage you to go check out that piece. It's on our website, readtangle.com right now. If you are not a subscriber, not a paid member, or not interested in becoming a paid member to some of the newsletter and website content that is behind a paywall. I did discuss it a bit on Sunday's podcast with Ari. We spent a few minutes on it. Definitely not as comprehensive as the piece that I wrote, but if you did not check out that podcast, I for sure encourage you to go listen to it. I've been loving doing these Sunday podcasts with Ari. I think it's like a really nice outlet for us to touch on some stuff that we don't get to cover in the newsletter, to expound on some of our coverage, or to bring guests on, or to argue
Starting point is 00:02:54 with each other. It's really fun. I love having a guest and somebody to chat with on the podcast. And so if you are not somebody who's been listening to those Sunday podcasts, I'd like to point you to them. I think it's some of the best content that we're putting out right now. And speaking of great content that we're putting out, we just released episode three of our Undecided podcast. We're trying to put one out maybe once a month. Feels like a good cadence. So we'll have, you know, 10 or 12 by the time we get to November and a little bit after the election. So this was episode three. A reminder that our Undecided podcast is our limited series where we're following five undecided voters up to and through Election Day
Starting point is 00:03:36 and ask them questions about how they're making their decision. This was a really interesting one. We played with a little bit of a new format where we're kind of threading all their answers together and I think making a little bit more narrative. So it's been really fun to work on this podcast and play with it a bit. We're gonna relaunch it probably in the next couple weeks as its own separate podcast. So it'll be taken off the Tangle podcast channel
Starting point is 00:04:02 and we're gonna be pushing you guys to go subscribe and follow the new channel where we're gonna to be pushing you guys to go subscribe and follow the new channel where we're going to publish all those episodes because it is a limited series that we're trying to release separate from Tangle. So keep an eye out for that. Go check out that episode. Write in with some feedback if you have it. We love hearing from people. And yeah, lots of good stuff on the channel these days. So with that out of the way, I'm going to pass it over to John to break us down with some of today's news and explain our big story today. And I'll be back for my take. Welcome, everybody. Here are today's quick hits. First up, the Biden administration unveiled a proposed change to the asylum process that will allow immigration officials to deport migrants seeking asylum within days.
Starting point is 00:04:51 Number two, a State Department report to Congress said that it was reasonable to assess that Israel had violated international law using arms sent by the U.S. Separately, the first shipment of humanitarian aid to a U.s built floating pier off gaza's coast is en route number three michael cohen former president donald trump's previous lawyer is taking the stand today as a witness in trump's manhattan hush money case number four hunter biden's request to dismiss gun charges was rejected by an appeals court setting up a june trial and number five vladimir putin replaced his top defense minister as Russian forces launched a renewed ground offensive in Ukraine's Kharkiv region, prompting over 4,000 civilians to
Starting point is 00:05:33 flee. Separately, Ukraine struck two oil depots in a refinery deep inside Russian territory. Former President Donald Trump's classified documents case in Florida has been postponed indefinitely. You may remember that original trial date was set for May 20th. Judge Eileen Cannon, citing significant issues around classified evidence, says that would need to be worked out before the federal criminal case goes to a jury. After months of delays and closed-door hearings, the classified documents case against former President Donald Trump has been officially and indefinitely delayed by Judge Aileen Cannon. To many, this is considered the strongest, clearest cut case against the former president. Judge Aileen Cannon, who is presiding over former President Donald Trump's classified documents case, indefinitely postponed his trial last week.
Starting point is 00:06:38 The announcement all but assures the trial, once set to begin this month, will not be completed before Election Day in November. Cannon has already pushed back several deadlines in this case. Her recent announcement cited the need to resolve pending pretrial litigation, including disputes over how classified documents can be used during the trial. In addition, Cannon set two hearings for May 22nd on motions to dismiss the case outright. The court also determines that finalization of a trial date at this juncture, before resolution of the myriad of interconnected pretrial and SEPA issues remaining and forthcoming, would be imprudent and inconsistent with the court's duty to fully and fairly consider the various pending pretrial motions before the court, critical SEPA issues, and additional
Starting point is 00:07:20 pretrial and trial preparations necessary to present this case to a jury, Cannon wrote in her new order. SEPA, or the Classified Information Procedures Act, is a 1980 statute that provides guidelines for handling pretrial disputes in cases involving classified information. Cannon has already ruled on a number of SEPA objections, siding with the prosecution, but the latest trial delay underscores the amount of unresolved SEPA-related challenges remaining in this case. As a reminder, in June of 2023, Trump was indicted on 37 counts of seven different charges, including willful retention of national defense information, false statements, conspiracy to obstruct, and withholding classified records. Special Counsel Jack Smith filed additional charges against Trump in August, including accusations that he and
Starting point is 00:08:03 his aides attempted to delete surveillance footage from his Mar-a-Lago club so it couldn't be turned over to a grand jury. Trump pleaded not guilty on all of the charges. Cannon has faced criticism for her inexperience and potential bias since the case landed in the U.S. District Court of the Southern District of Florida. The 43-year-old just meets the American Bar Association's requirements with 12 years of legal practice before serving as a district judge, a position she was nominated for by the defendant, Donald Trump. Her decision-making and extended bouts of silence on key rulings have also drawn sharp rebuke from legal experts. For example, she held a hearing on March 1st about how long to postpone the original May 20th trial date, but did not make any announcements about her decision until last week. In 2022, a three-judge appeals court panel overruled Cannon's decision to
Starting point is 00:08:51 temporarily prevent prosecutors from accessing over 100 classified documents relevant to Trump's case. Elsewhere, Trump and his legal team have successfully delayed all the cases against him except the Manhattan trial on alleged hush money payments. Jack Smith's other case against Trump, over alleged efforts to overthrow the 2020 election, is on hold for the Supreme Court to consider the question of presidential immunity, while disputes over the conduct of prosecutor Fannie Willis have delayed his trial over similar state-level charges in Georgia. Today, we're going to break down some arguments from the left and the right about the indefinite delay of this case, and then Isaac's take. We'll be right back after this quick commercial break.
Starting point is 00:09:42 All right, first up, here's what the left is saying. All right, first up, here's what the left is saying. The left is outraged by the delay in the trial, framing Judge Cannon as incompetent and biased. Some say Special Counsel Smith should pursue all available avenues to work around Cannon's decision. Others criticize Cannon for creating the need for a delay through her own missteps. The Times Union editorial board called the trial justice delayed to death. Legal scholars, ethicists, and pundits will doubtlessly debate whether Judge Cannon, whom Mr. Trump appointed to the bench,
Starting point is 00:10:11 corruptly accommodated his attempts to delay the trial or was merely incompetent, the board wrote. Whatever the reason, it certainly appears that Judge Cannon slow-walked this case, and her performance when she did act was sometimes blatantly flawed. That's not conjecture. A three-judge appeals court panel in 2022 found substantial errors in her move and her performance when she did act was sometimes blatantly flawed. That's not conjecture. A three-judge appeals court panel in 2022 found substantial errors in her move to block government access to the very documents involved in the case. The question of whether Mr. Trump broke the law, at least in this case, will likely be unresolved when voters go to the polls to decide
Starting point is 00:10:38 whether he should be returned to the highest office in the land. It's possible, then, that a man accused of illegally hoarding sensitive national security documents and going to extraordinary lengths to cover up that wrongdoing will pick an attorney general, any number of federal judges, and people who will lead federal intelligence and law enforcement agencies. In the Washington Post, Jennifer Rubin said, Cannon plays catch-and-kill with the Trump classified documents case. On its face, Cannon's statement is absurd, practically an admission that the case is
Starting point is 00:11:07 too complicated for her, Rubin wrote. Her latest delay follows a series of widely criticized moves revealing her inexperience, among the most inexplicable, demanding a debate on jury instructions, even sillier in retrospect with the trial postponed indefinitely, and threatening to reveal witnesses' names which prosecutors say would endanger them. What can Smith do? The special counsel might make a motion to recuse. Cannon would deny it, but he could then take it up with the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit.
Starting point is 00:11:34 Alternatively, he might go to the Eleventh Circuit seeking a writ of mandamus, essentially an order requiring Cannon to decide the pending issues, Rubin said. Many legal experts still argue that Smith might as well try one of these moves. What has he got to lose? At the very least, the special counsel can highlight the danger of giving Trump another chance to stalk the courts with Eileen Cannon's.
Starting point is 00:11:55 In MSNBC, Hayes Brown wrote, Cannon set herself up for failure. To say that Cannon finds herself in an entirely avoidable situation is an understatement. The primary speed bump preventing a swift, speedy resolution of the issues she cites in explaining her delay is none other than Cannon herself. It's impossible at this juncture to definitively apportion the blame for this cascading failure
Starting point is 00:12:17 on inexperience, partisan malice, and simply being dealt a bum hand. What is clear, though, is that Cannon has made what should have been one of the most straightforward cases against Trump into a quagmire of her own creation. Unfortunately for everyone who isn't a co-defendant in this case, Cannon's careful treading fits perfectly with Trump's preferred strategy of delaying his court appearances for as long as possible, Brown said. Given the clear evidence that Trump was in possession of the documents seized despite a subpoena to return them and attempted to foil the government's efforts to recover
Starting point is 00:12:47 them, this should be an open and shut case once it gets before a jury. Instead, Cannon has only painted herself into a corner, overcorrecting from her past mistakes in a way that has only exacerbated her subsequent follies. All right, that is it for what the left is saying, which brings us to what the right is saying. The right supports the decision, arguing that Smith's desired timeline for the case was never feasible. Some say the left's reaction to the news shows their only goal is convicting Trump before the election. Others say the cases against Trump are falling apart. In his blog, Jonathan Turley criticized Democrats' attacks on Judge Cannon. Democrats have accused Judge Eileen Cannon of being politically compromised, if not conspiratorially, in her delay of the Florida trial over the mishandling of classified documents.
Starting point is 00:13:40 Yet there is ample reason for the delay that many of us anticipated in this type of case when it was filed, Turley said. Smith has repeatedly sought to curtail trial review and even appellate rights of Trump to advance his schedule. His office has made convicting Trump before the election the overriding objective of this motion, a sharp departure from past Justice Department efforts to avoid trials to influence elections. efforts to avoid trials to influence elections. Judge Kanin is faced with recent admissions that the government mixed up files in the boxes and staged the famous photos of documents strewn over a floor with classified jackets. Most importantly, disputes over the relevant documents continue as expected in this case. Nevertheless, leading Democrats are denouncing Kanin as a partisan hack, Turley wrote. It is the timing as much as it is the charges
Starting point is 00:14:25 that makes this so important to the Justice Department and the Democrats. Smith has crafted this case to impact the election, and the failure of the court to support that effort is apparently grounds for recusal. In hot air, Jai Shah said the left is more interested in keeping Trump off the campaign trail than ensuring justice is served. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, trail than ensuring justice is served. his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada,
Starting point is 00:15:14 which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu season? Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider FluCellVax Quad and help protect yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at FluCellVax.ca. Trials take place when both the prosecution and the defense are prepared to move forward. Relatively simple, straightforward cases can move to trial quickly,
Starting point is 00:15:50 while more complicated allegations can take quite a while to resolve. But Trump has been surging in the polls lately, while Joe Biden is roughly as popular as an impacted wisdom tooth. So the left is desperate to keep Trump off the campaign trail and, if possible, put him behind bars. Of course, nothing in Kanan's ruling so much as suggested anything about Donald Trump's innocence or guilt or questioned whether he should stand trial. These were simple procedural difficulties that made the original trial date impractical, Shaw wrote. Their hypocrisy is evident, but the Democrats don't seem to care because this was never about the law. It's all about trying to keep Trump out of office and off the ballot if possible.
Starting point is 00:16:27 In the Wall Street Journal, Kimberly A. Strassel called the delay the latest in the lawfare implosion of 2024. The prosecution is fuming while the press insinuates, or baldly asserts, that the judge is biased for Trump, incompetent or both. But it is Mr. Smith and his press gaggle who are living in legal unreality, attempting to rush the process to accommodate a political timeline, Strassel said. What did they expect? Mr. Smith waited until 2023 to file legal novel charges involving classified documents, a former president, and a complex set of statutes governing presidential records.
Starting point is 00:17:03 Little, in short, is going as planned. The lawfare strategy from the start, pile on Mr. Trump in a way that would ensure that Republicans would rally for his nomination, then use legal proceedings to crush his ability to campaign, drain his resources, and make him too toxic, or isolated in prison, to win a general election. He won the nomination, but the effort against him is flailing, courtesy of an echo chamber of anti-Trump prosecutors and journalists who continue
Starting point is 00:17:29 to indulge the fantasy that every court, judge, jury, and timeline exists to dance to their partisan fervor. And now let's send it back to Isaac for his take. All right, that is it for the left and the right are saying, which brings us to my take. So some of the defenses of Judge Cannon are genuinely strong. For starters, it's true that special counsel Jack Smith brought forward some very complex charges in a legally novel case against the former president in 2022 and then added to those charges less than a year ago. Expecting this case to move through the federal court system before the November election was always optimistic, especially since Trump's team was always going to pursue a smart and
Starting point is 00:18:24 wholly legitimate legal strategy of challenge and delay. You want to hand over tens of thousands of classified documents to prosecutors? Well, they'll recommend that a special master review all of them at once. Shoot, his team's even pushing back on whether the appointment of special counsel Smith was legal in the first place. Some things that Trump's team are challenging in the case are so sensitive that Judge Cannon has determined that discussing them openly would be a threat to national security. And I don't blame Cannon for that. Complex issues like these will come up when a former president is charged with taking thousands of classified government
Starting point is 00:18:59 documents to his personal residence. Additionally, a lot of hysterical nonsense always surrounds federal judges, and especially Supreme Court judges that I'm keen to ignore. Every time liberals get a Supreme Court ruling they don't like, we're bound for some commentary about how corrupt the far-right extremists on the court have become. Every time conservatives see a ruling they don't like in some federal district court, they'll bemoan an Obama-appointed judge ruling in a liberal circuit. So when I hear people reduce Cannon to a Trump appointee in the tank for Republicans, I take it with a lot of skepticism. And yet, there is something very weird going on here. I don't know if it comes from inexperience, she only had 14 trial days over four cases in this position before this
Starting point is 00:19:45 one, or political bias. The subject of this case doesn't share an ideology with her appointor, but is her appointor himself, or something else. But Judge Cannon really does seem to be showing some favoritism. Take one major example. Trump's team started this case before the indictment was even officially filed by arguing that he had executive privilege over all the material the FBI took from Mar-a-Lago. They asked Judge Cannon to appoint an independent arbiter to go through the material to separate the innocuous documents from the highly sensitive ones, effectively asking her to freeze the FBI's investigation. When Trump's team took this legal strategy,
Starting point is 00:20:25 its absurdity was widely panned, even by conservative legal pundits like Trump's former Attorney General William Barr, and then Cannon obliged. The ridiculousness of her decision is not some liberal talking point. The appellate court that oversees her, the 11th Circuit, forcefully overturned that ruling and explicitly said that she had violated the principle of the rule of law by making an exception for a former president. But the practical effect was delay. The decision, Smith's need to fight it, and the wait for the appellate court to rule on it bogged the case down and signaled to Trump's legal team that she would be receptive to slapdash challenges. Trump's legal team got the message. Once the
Starting point is 00:21:05 actual indictment was filed, they started throwing everything they could at the case. New York Times reporter Alan Fuhrer described their tactics as, quote, burying her in paper, end quote, and added that Trump's lawyers were, quote, leveraging both her inexperience and some sort of prior indication by her that she is willing to entertain unorthodox arguments, end quote. Among other things, Trump's team has tried to argue that the documents fall under the Presidential Records Act because Trump took them, which is proof he's decided they are personal, despite some of the documents containing nuclear and war plans, according to the indictment. Again, a far-fetched, widely panned argument, and one that Cannon continued to entertain.
Starting point is 00:21:44 Others have made the point, and I've agreed, that the classified documents case is the most straightforward and slam-dunk case of the ones Trump faces. The case carries the worst case scenario indictment for Trump, with hard evidence, lots of details, damning witnesses, and an alleged cover-up to boot. And yes, as I've laid out before, this is very different from the Clinton case, the Joe Biden case, or the Mike Pence case. I never expected the judge in the case to derail it or slow it down to this degree. I'm not sure where we go from here. Smith can try to get Cannon removed from the case, but that seems likely to fail and certain to delay things
Starting point is 00:22:21 further. The trial is already unlikely to even start before the 2024 election, and if Trump wins in 2024, we can be sure he'll appoint a new attorney general and the charges against him will be dropped. For now, it seems Trump's legal strategy is working to perfection, and anyone hoping for a definitive trial is going to be disappointed. We'll be right back after this quick break. All right, that is it for my take, which brings us to your questions answered. This one's from Eric in Holly Springs, North Carolina. Eric said,
Starting point is 00:23:05 in the reader survey section of the newsletter, have you noticed a strong correlation between your take and the option that matches your take the best? Have you seen where the majority of the responses were the opposite of your take? So yes, actually, we've definitely noticed a strong correlation between what I say and my take and the responses we get to the reader survey. One of our readers even called it a persuasion survey because of this. But I should briefly explain the decision to place the survey where we have it currently in the newsletter, which is right after my take. First of all, readers and listeners usually come to us with their own beliefs and biases already. After getting a dose of what the left and right are saying, most people have a way that they're
Starting point is 00:23:44 leaning or a thought mostly formed. My take was always meant to be just another voice among the perspectives we share, though it is of course longer and more in-depth than any other article we quote. At the same time, I appreciate that I've earned a lot of goodwill with the tangle of readership over the years, so my writing often nudges someone on the fence or leaning one way in a certain direction that shows up on the reader poll. Second, we just don't want readers leaving the newsletter before they get a chance to read everything. If we put a survey before my take, there's a good chance a number of people won't return to read our daily editorial. We put a lot of thought and effort into
Starting point is 00:24:19 that portion so we don't want that to happen. Then, of course, we still want readers to engage with our surveys so we don't want to put them too far down in the newsletter either. In fact, since we moved the survey link up from the extras where it had been, we've had six of our last eight surveys garner over a thousand responses, and our survey on NPR bias was our most answered survey ever by several hundred answers. We like knowing readers are engaged, and we really like seeing which way you all lean and how you are understanding the news. So to your second question, a few times recently the readership has actually leaned away from me. I supported reclassifying marijuana, but our readers preferred fully legalizing it. I supported a ceasefire in Gaza,
Starting point is 00:25:00 but our readers favored a full military action in Rafah. There is a correlation between my opinion and other reader responses, yes, but my opinion is far from the final word. So with all that said, I am actually curious what you guys think. Should we move the survey around in the newsletter? Keep it as is? Remember, if you have a comment or any question, you can always shoot it to us by writing in to me at Isaac, I-S-A-A-C, at readtangle.com. All right, that is it for Your Questions Answered. I'm going to send it back to John for the rest of the podcast, and I'll see you guys tomorrow. Thanks, Isaac. Next up is the Under the Radar section. A federal judge has blocked the Biden
Starting point is 00:25:42 administration's proposed rule change that would have prohibited credit card companies from charging customers late fees over $8. Judge Mark T. Pittman, a Trump appointee, granted a preliminary injunction to several businesses and banking organizations who sued over the rule, arguing it violated federal statutes. The rule was set to go into effect on Tuesday and would have saved consumers about $10 billion per year by cutting fees from an average of $32, according to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. CNN has this story, and there's a link in today's episode description. All right, next up is our numbers section. The number of days since the original indictment against Donald Trump in the classified documents case was issued is numbers section. The number of days since the original indictment against Donald Trump in the classified documents case was issued is 340.
Starting point is 00:26:28 The number of criminal trials overseen by Judge Kahneman prior to the classified documents case is four. The percentage of Americans who think Trump did nothing wrong in his handling of classified documents is 18%, according to an April 2024 poll from APNORC. The percentage of Americans who think Trump acted unethically, but not illegally in his handling of classified documents is 15%. The percentage of Americans who said the charges against Trump in this case should disqualify him from the presidency in August of 2023
Starting point is 00:26:57 was 43%, according to a CNN SSRS poll. The percentage of Americans who said the charges against Trump in this case should disqualify him from the presidency in April 2024 was 38%. And the percentage of Americans who say they support Trump over Joe Biden in the 2024 election but might reconsider if he is convicted of a crime is 24%. All right, and last but not least, our Have a Nice Day story. Monoculture and fisheries has been a common practice of specialization meant to help aquaculturists be more efficient. However, the practice can be harmful to economic and environmental sustainability. Recently, in Thailand, polyculture practices, like raising fish and shrimp together, that have been less commonly practiced, are starting to gain traction.
Starting point is 00:27:44 less commonly practiced are starting to gain traction. Polyculture systems have been shown to reduce waste and improve growth efficiency while simultaneously yielding higher profits for farmers, an economic and environmental win-win. I've had this farm for 30 years and I've always mixed from the beginning. I copied from another farmer and it looked like it worked, so that's why I did it, says polyculturalist Somporn Kaikau. Reasons to be Cheerful has this story and there's a link in today's episode description. All right, everybody that's it for today's episode. As always,
Starting point is 00:28:13 if you want to support our work, you can go to retangle.com and sign up for a membership. As I mentioned at the top, we have our latest episode of the undecideds. That's episode three on all streaming platforms, as well as Isaac and Ari's Sunday podcast, which is highly entertaining and informative. I really encourage you guys to check out all of our offerings and more content is on the way. So stay tuned. For Isaac and the rest of the crew, this is John Maul signing off.
Starting point is 00:28:40 Have a great day, everybody. Peace. Have a great day, everybody. Peace. Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul, and edited and engineered by John Wall. The script is edited by our managing editor, Ari Weitzman, Will Kedak, Bailey Saul, and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was designed by Magdalena Bokova, who is also our social media manager. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet75. If you're looking for more from Tangle,
Starting point is 00:29:11 please go to readtangle.com and check out our website. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, We'll be right back. Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. What can you do this flu season? Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider FluCellVax Quad and help protect yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages 6 months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at FluCellVax.ca.

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