Tangle - Trump’s immigration actions.
Episode Date: January 29, 2025Since taking office, President Donald Trump has issued a series of executive orders on immigration, which the White House says is part of its effort to establish firmer control over the sout...hern U.S. border. Many of the actions are targeted at unauthorized migrants, but others have restricted legal immigration pathways, including orders to indefinitely pause the U.S. refugee admissions program, end parole programs, and shut down the CBP One app for asylum seekers. Ad-free podcasts are here!Many listeners have been asking for an ad-free version of this podcast that they could subscribe to — and we finally launched it. You can go to tanglemedia.supercast.com to sign up!You can read today's podcast here, our “Under the Radar” story here and today’s “Have a nice day” story here.Take the survey: What do you think of Trump’s executive orders on immigration? Let us know!You can subscribe to Tangle by clicking here or drop something in our tip jar by clicking here. Our podcast is written by Isaac Saul and edited and engineered by Dewey Thomas. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75. Our newsletter is edited by Managing Editor Ari Weitzman, Will Kaback, Bailey Saul, Sean Brady, and produced in conjunction with Tangle’s social media manager Magdalena Bokowa, who also created our logo. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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From executive producer, Isaac Saul, this is Tangle.
Good morning, good afternoon and good evening and welcome to the Tangle Podcast, a place
where you get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a
little bit of our take.
I'm your host, editor Will Kavak, and today we're going to be talking about President
Trump's first immigration orders.
What has he done?
What are the actions say?
What is the sweep of them and what might their impact be?
It's a topic that pulls in a lot of issues and it touches a lot of issues in our society.
So we're going to unpack it as best we can.
We're going to talk about what signals Trump is sending specifically and how these orders
might look once they're actually put into place.
Big discussion.
Looking forward to getting into it.
But before we do, I'm going to pass it over to John for our quick hits
and today's main topic, and then I'll be back for my take.
Thanks, Will. And welcome everybody.
Here are your quick hits for today.
First up, a federal judge issued a temporary stay on the Trump
administration's directive
to pause federal loans, grants, and other financial assistance, ruling that the government
cannot hold funds that were already slated to be dispersed while the stay is in place.
The judge scheduled a hearing to determine next steps for Monday.
Separately, the White House issued a memo offering to pay federal workers who do not
want to return to the office through September if they agree to resign by February 6.
2.
The Senate confirmed former Representative Sean Duffy as transportation secretary by
a vote of 77 to 22.
3.
President Donald Trump signed an executive order restricting access to medical treatments
for transgender children and teens, directing the Department of Health and Human Services and other federal agencies to cut funding
to hospitals and medical schools that provide these treatments.
4.
Senator Gary Peters, the Democrat for Michigan, said he would not seek reelection in 2026,
stating his desire to allow a new generation of leadership to take power.
5. stating his desire to allow a new generation of leadership to take power. At number five, the State Department advised U.S. nationals to leave the Democratic Republic
of Congo following a series of attacks by protesters on several foreign embassies and
a United Nations building in the capital of Kinshasa.
The protests have been driven by anger over a perceived lack of support from Congo's allies
amid its ongoing conflict with Rwandan-backed rebels. is underway this morning with ICE agents arresting hundreds of undocumented
immigrants in several major cities across the country.
The first of 1500 active-duty U.S. troops deployed by President Trump
arriving at an Army airfield in El Paso, Texas to help boost border security.
Trump's borders are promising more big changes are coming.
Since taking office, President Donald Trump has issued a series of executive security. Trump's borders are promising more big changes are coming.
Since taking office, President Donald Trump has issued a series of executive orders on
immigration, which the White House says is part of its efforts to establish firmer control
over the southern U.S. border. Many of the actions are targeted at unauthorized migrants,
but others have restricted legal immigration pathways, including orders to indefinitely
pause the U.S. refugeeugee Admissions Program and parole programs
and shut down the CBP-1 app for asylum seekers.
On his first day back in office,
President Trump suspended the U.S. Refugee Admissions Program
until further entry into the United States of refugees
aligned with the interests of the United States,
with exceptions for case-by-case refugee admissions
determined by the Secretary of State and the Secretary of the United States, with exceptions for case-by-case refugee admissions determined
by the Secretary of State and the Secretary of Homeland Security.
The Secretaries will also produce a report on whether resuming the program is in the
United States' interests within 90 days of the order.
In concert with the order, the administration directed refugee resettlement agencies to
stop using federal funds to integrate refugees, prompting questions over
whether refugees already in the country will lose access to existing services. Separately, officials
were instructed to halt immigration parole programs, which allowed non-citizens temporary
legal status, usually on humanitarian grounds. The directive ends the uniting for Ukraine policy
for Ukrainians fleeing war who are sponsored by American citizens
as well as other programs for Cubans, Haitians, Nicaraguans, and Venezuelans.
Additionally, it instructs officials to not renew the parole status of Afghans brought to the U.S.
following the military's withdrawal in 2021. On Thursday, the New York Times reported that the
Trump administration also authorized immigration and customs enforcement officials to deport migrants who had been allowed into the country
temporarily under Biden-era programs.
Lastly, Trump shut down the CBP-1 app, which had been expanded during the Biden administration
to allow migrants seeking asylum to schedule appointments with immigration officials prior
to their arriving at the southern border.
A notice added to the service's website on January 20th states that the app is no longer available
and existing appointments have been cancelled. Today, we'll explore reactions from the left
and the right to Trump's immigration orders. Then editor Will Kavak will give his take. We'll be right back after this quick break.
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All right.
First up, let's start with what the left is saying.
The left criticizes the orders, suggesting they improperly target legal immigrants.
Some say the orders will likely make the situation at the border worse.
Others argue the actions are founded on false premises about immigration.
In the Washington Post, Catherine Rampell said, Trump is not just going after foreigners
who break the law.
Donald Trump promised to crack down on illegal immigration, avow many Americans' support, but so far his administration has been much more fixated on
punishing legal immigrants, Rampel wrote. The president and his supporters rebut
accusations of xenophobia by claiming they have nothing against immigrants per se.
They merely want immigrants to wait their turn
and come to America the right way.
But this rhetoric is at odds with Trump's record.
In his first term, he had almost no effect
on illegal immigration levels,
but he did manage to demolish legal immigration levels.
This week, Trump suspended the entire refugee system
and canceled flights of refugees
already cleared and scheduled
to come here.
Among those stranded are 1,700 Afghans, including those who helped American military efforts
or are family of active-duty U.S. military personnel," Rampel said.
Meanwhile, Trump canceled interviews for asylum seekers who have been waiting in Mexico for
months to come into the United States legally through ports of entry.
Shutting down these legal, orderly routes
for immigrating to America not only betrays the people
who waited patiently and followed our laws,
it also incentivizes more illegal immigration
since desperate people fleeing war and persecution
will still find ways to come.
In foreign policy, Edward Alden argued
Trump's immigration orders will bring chaos to the
border.
U.S. President Donald Trump took office this week and inherited the most secure southern
border in decades, with recorded illegal crossings plummeting over the past year despite a strong
U.S. economy that continues to be a magnet for foreign workers, Alden wrote.
So what did Trump do on day one?
He declared a national emergency at the southern border
and ripped up most of the Biden administration initiatives
that had brought it under control.
Amid a slew of executive actions on Trump's first day,
those on immigration stand out.
The new president's approach will bring back
the very crisis that he claims he was elected to resolve.
If the deterrence, fences, walls, technology, border patrol agents, legal bars on asylum
claims are sufficiently harsh and widespread, then illegal crossings can be halted, the
thinking goes.
But there is nothing in the history of U.S. border control efforts to suggest that such
an approach will be effective," Alton said.
Trump's first term was revelatory, despite the president implementing harsher border
measures including separating children from their parents.
Illegal crossings surged in the strong economy of 2019, exceeding the numbers of any year
of the preceding Obama administration.
It was only with the start of the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020, which brought border closures
and spiking unemployment, that illegal
crossings again dropped significantly.
In The New Yorker, Jonathan Blitzer wrote about the unchecked authority of Trump's immigration
orders.
A central theme of all of Trump's immigration orders is recasting migration as a form of
invasion.
As a piece of political rhetoric, the word has become numbingly histrionic.
But as a legal notion, in the world of these executive orders, it triggers a response that
goes far beyond the president's already broad powers to manage immigration," Blitzer said.
Both Trump and President Joe Biden have sought to bar entry to asylum seekers through an
expansive reading of the Immigration and Nationality Act, which is the main statute covering federal
immigration law.
These new orders aim to cast aside the INA and allow Trump to seek recourse in the Constitution
as a president defending his country from a foreign threat.
Many of these orders reinforce the fiction that mass migration constitutes some kind
of war.
At the moment, following months of sharply declining
numbers of migrants at the border,
the government is arresting fewer people than it did
in the final months of Trump's first term, Blitzer wrote.
Even in late 2023, when there was a legitimate crisis
with 250,000 people apprehended by border patrol
in the month of December alone,
the idea that the country was in the midst
of a hostile foreign takeover
would have been absurd.
Alright that is it for what the left is saying, which brings us to what the right is saying.
The right mostly supports the orders, noting that they align with Trump's campaign promises.
Some say the message sent by the orders will amplify their impact.
Others say congressional action is needed to build on Trump's start.
In the New York Post, Andrew Arthur explored how Trump's border orders are reversing the
migrant crisis.
President Trump identified immigration as the issue that put him over the top in the
2024 election, and now he's moving quickly to fulfill his promises.
Taking a slew of actions to recalibrate our immigration system, Arthur wrote.
While foes and friends have focused on directives to end birthright citizenship and designate
foreign drug cartels and criminal gangs as terrorist organizations, Trump's other immigration
initiatives will be much more impactful, at least in the short term.
Trump issued a proclamation suspending illegal entries outside the ports of entry that will,
once implemented, restrict illegal migrants' ability to apply for asylum in an effort to
protect states from criminal aliens and preserve limited public resources.
A separate Trump executive order resumes construction of the federal border wall
system, Arthur said. Trump has also vowed to make America safe again by reinstating Remain in Mexico,
a program started in his first term that sent a legal entrance back across the border to await
their asylum hearings. In less than 48 hours, the second Trump administration established a
roadmap that will bring security and sense back to our immigration system.
In the Daily Caller, John Loftus suggested the optics of Trump's orders are just as
important as the numbers themselves.
The actions taken to shore up border security are all impressive.
So too the numbers.
But the optics of Trump's border blitz are just as important, if not more.
Under President Joe Biden's administration, Americans were increasingly alarmed over the
prospect of increased crime rates, drugs, potential terrorism, and a heavier taxpayer
burden stemming from illegal immigration, Loftus wrote.
Democrat or Republican, liberal or conservative, Americans want to feel safe in their own country,
their own city, and their own neighborhood.
Unfortunately though, Americans have grown accustomed
to fear and paranoia in 2025.
Why?
Because illegal immigration and lawlessness
have eroded trust, Loftus said.
Trump's optics on the immigration crisis
are but a small crucial step toward restoring trust
throughout America and trust in government,
which has cratered in recent decades. They will also act as a deterrent.
Border encounters are already dropping just weeks into the Trump administration, and illegal
aliens currently residing in the United States are reportedly hiding in fear of the next
ICE raid. If the raids are to continue long into 2025, those numbers will only further
decrease.
In Newsweek, Sean Spicer wrote,
Executive orders are a good start, but we need lasting immigration reform.
On day one, Trump kept his campaign promises.
He signed a series of executive orders that address the border crisis head on.
These moves sent a clear message.
This administration is serious about securing the borders," Biteser said.
But while executive orders make headlines, it's also time for my fellow Republicans
to deliver the long-term solutions Americans deserve that future presidents can't unravel
with the stroke of a pen.
The truth is, our immigration system is outdated, insufficient, and overburdened.
It demands a comprehensive legislative overhaul, and Congress needs to step up to the plate.
One of the biggest hurdles we face is staffing. U.S. Customs and Border Patrol has been under-resourced
and overworked for years. Despite the growing number of encounters with non-citizens at
the border, CBP has struggled to meet its staffing goals," Spicer wrote.
Then there's the issue of backlogs. Right now, nearly 4 million immigration cases are stuck in limbo.
The backlog has doubled over the past decade and the system is grinding to a halt.
President Trump has the mandate and the opportunity to lead.
It's time for Congress to get to work and pass a comprehensive solution that secures
our borders, streamlines the process, and restores faith in our government's ability
to manage
immigration effectively.
All right, let's head over to Will for his take.
All right, that is it for what the left and right are saying, which brings us to my take.
Reminder, this is editor Will Kavak and I authored today's my take.
President Trump campaigned in no uncertain terms on what he would do if reelected, and
he started his term clearly intending to follow through on those promises.
A historic volume of executive orders on day one sent a clear message to Congress,
the courts, and voters. I'm ready, are you? This is clearest with immigration. Trump didn't just
campaign on mass deportations, he linked immigration to every societal ill. Housing shortages, crime,
loss of community, and more. An increasing number of Americans seem to agree with him.
A June 2024 Gallup poll found that the percentage of Americans
who want lower levels of immigration has increased 27 points since 2020.
And all party groups, Republicans, independents, Democrats, have notably shifted toward favoring decreased immigration
between just 2023 and 2024. Furthermore, a recent Axios Ipsos poll found that 66%
of Americans support deporting all unauthorized immigrants.
Though I should say that that support does drop in the poll
when certain mechanisms to conduct those deportations
are described.
Before the election, poll after poll showed
that voters ranked immigration as a top concern
and were dissatisfied with Democrats handling of the issue.
Or they saw Trump as the better leader to address it.
Whether or not Trump's victory qualifies as a mandate, it's clear that much of his electoral
win is due to his stance on immigration.
And right now, he's simply following through on his campaign promises.
Trump is seeking to change the idea that immigration strengthens the country, to
challenge the belief that we should be a safe haven for people fleeing persecution,
and to move progressive slogans like, no human being is illegal, out of the
mainstream. Vice President, JD Vance summed up this attitude in an interview
with CBS News on Saturday when he said, quote, just because we were founded by immigrants doesn't mean that 240 years
later, we have to have the dumbest immigration policy in the world.
End quote.
Now the scale of the Trump administration's executive orders on immigration,
suspending refugees, ending humanitarian parole programs, shutting down asylum
claims, carrying out mass deportations.
These all send this message loud and clear.
The US wants less immigration of all kinds.
If you are someone thinking of coming to the US
to seek economic opportunity,
the Trump administration is telling you not to come.
If you are fleeing a war-torn country,
seek refuge elsewhere.
If you came to the US through pathways provided
by the Biden administration,
your legal status is no longer recognized.
This may sound harsh, but again, Trump is doing exactly what he said he would.
And those views seem to have a lot of support, which makes his
actions fundamentally democratic.
To win on immigration in the future, Trump's opponents are going to have
to convince voters that his approach hurts the country's interests, not just that they
are cruel or immoral.
Of course, popularity doesn't make a policy legal.
Trump's first administration advanced similar views on immigration, but was
largely unprepared for the legal pushback it received.
This time around, they are clearly more prepared, with White House Deputy
Chief of Staff Stephen
Miller orchestrating a flood-the-zone strategy on executive orders to overwhelm Trump's opponents.
That's working politically so far, but as the legal challenges come in, many of these
orders may not stand up to legal scrutiny.
One federal judge has already blocked Trump's order on birthright citizenship, and any effort
to permanently suspend asylum applications and stop accepting refugees has to get around the protections for
these groups codified in the Refugee Act of 1980. And although the Trump transition team did much
more legwork this time around using a team of lawyers from outside the Justice Department to
vet its day one executive orders on immigration. That preparation is probably not enough.
Those non-governmental lawyers probably worked backward from their desired
conclusions in approving those actions, but a federal judge might not see it the same way.
However, we shouldn't assume that any of Trump's orders, even the most
drastic ones, will be struck down.
For instance, his order suspending the U.S.
Refugee Admissions program requires the secretaries of
Homeland Security and State to submit a report after 90 days on whether resumption of entry of
refugees into the United States under that program would be in the country's interests.
If Kristi Noem and Marco Rubio simply say that resuming the program is not in America's interest,
and accordingly Trump decides to maintain the pause indefinitely, the courts could plausibly find that process legal,
especially as more Trump appointees are confirmed to the federal bench.
Now, the law is one thing, but practical implications are another.
And we're already seeing some signs that the deterrence message coming from the White
House is landing with other countries.
Mexico, Guatemala, Colombia, and others are all preparing to receive an influx of deportees The Trump administration's return message is landing with other countries.
Mexico, Guatemala, Columbia and
others are preparing to receive
an influx of deportees from the
U.S. right now.
However, I'm skeptical that these
reforms will bring order to our
immigration system and thus the
southern border at large,
especially with Trump shutting
down a tool that Biden used to help with exactly that, the CBP-1 app.
When the Biden administration announced the app's expansion to schedule asylum appointments in January, 2023,
encounters at the Southern border
were on their way to record highs.
And while the app dealt with some rollout issues,
and we certainly can't say definitively
that it was successful,
encounters did fall sharply to levels similar
to Trump's first term by January 2024,
and they have remained that low ever since. The app, in concert with much tougher rules imposed
by Biden for unauthorized immigrants claiming asylum at the border, clearly shifted incentives
from migrants towards pursuing legal pathways. And now that CBP1 is shut down, I'll be watching
to see if more migrants risk illegal crossings again. And accordingly, border encounters start
to rise. For me, this boils down to two basic questions, starting with this,
which matters more careful policy or vocal deterrence? I think many people
experiencing hardship in places like Venezuela or Haiti would still take the
risk to come to the US. Citizens of these countries live in constant fear of violence at the hands
of gangs or the government, and their economic outlook is increasingly dire. A hostile attitude
toward immigrants from the US government still pales in comparison to what these people are
experiencing at home, and I don't think Trump's orders meaningfully change their calculus,
at least yet.
Second, will Trump's views on immigration remain popular as voters see them rolled out?
I think many voters may rethink their stance once they see that it means rejecting Ukrainian refugees fleeing the war, who already have financial sponsors set up in
the U.S., or people like Tani Adewumi, who we featured in Monday's Have a Nice Day
Story, who fled Boko Haram in Nigeria and is now a chess
prodigy representing America on the world stage.
Trump has earned the right to take that risk if he wants to, but his popularity
on this issue is certainly not set in stone.
Ultimately, immigration policy involves navigating many factors that are out of
our immediate control and any long-term solutions should be multifaceted and probably
require Congress to act.
Trump is trying to slam every immigration door at once, but I'm skeptical that he
can keep all of those doors shut on his own.
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All right, that is it for my take,
which brings us to your questions answered.
Today's question is a topical one for our main story,
and it comes in from Chris, who asks,
I feel like item number two in Monday's Quick Hits,
which focused on a dispute between Columbia
and the United States on a flight of deportees,
could use a little more unpacking
and perhaps even a correction.
This story follows a pattern
where the Trump administration creates a problem,
there is
pushback and then they cease causing the problem and claim victory.
My understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that Columbia refused to accept US military
planes because the immigrants would not be treated with dignity.
And this was framed by many media outlets on both sides as a capitulation by Columbia,
but it was exactly backwards.
The US was the one who backed off in its insistence for transporting the deportees in the way it originally had.
Today's response is written by me, Will Kavak. I don't think the item requires a correction,
but it's certainly worth unpacking. It's true that Colombia's president Petro
framed his decision to reject the military deportation flights by saying that the deportations
must be carried out with quote, dignity and respect.
However, secretary of state Marco Rubio also said in a statement that Petro had
authorized the flights and provided all needed authorizations, then canceled his
authorization when the planes were in the air.
CNN reviewed documents that support Rubio's assertion.
By all accounts, the white house was surprised by Petro's refusal to accept the
flights, so I don't think this was a case of Trump instigating the problem. Also, President Petro's
demands for better treatment of deportees weren't actually in response to the flights to Colombia
that he turned back, but to conditions on another flight of deportees from the U.S. to Brazil.
That flight aboard a passenger jet had several issues. A layover in the Amazon,
broken air conditioning, some deportees were transported in handcuffs, and eventually
passengers climbed out through emergency hatches to call for help. Conversely, the Colombian
deportees were aboard two US military planes, and those flights have not produced any similar
reports that we know of. While the incident could be framed as a win for Petro in the sense that he was able to
address his concerns about deportees treatment by offering his presidential plane to transport
them, I think this story is much more about how the Trump administration managed to continue
its deportation plan unencumbered.
To me, the sequence of events is clear.
Petro decided to pull authorization for the flights while they were in the air.
The planes then came back to the US.
Trump responded with threats and then the same planes went back to Columbia.
And that is it for your questions answered.
I'm going to send it back over to John for the rest of the podcast and I will talk to
you all soon.
Have a great day.
Thanks, Will.
Here's your Under the Radar story for today, folks.
On Tuesday, White House press secretary, Caroline Levitt, said the unidentified aerial phenomenon
sightings in New Jersey and other East Coast states in late 2024 were drones authorized
by the Federal Aviation Administration.
Many of these drones were also hobbyists, recreational, and private individuals that
enjoy flying drones, Levitt said.
In time, it got worse due to curiosity.
This was not the enemy.
The White House did not elaborate on how it had reached this conclusion, but the findings
support the determination the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Department of Homeland
Security reached in December.
National Review has this story and there's a link in today's episode description.
All right, next up is our numbers section.
The percentage of Americans who say they approve of President Donald Trump's approach on immigration
is 48 percent, according to a Reuters Ipsos poll released this week.
according to a Reuters Ipsos poll released this week. The number of refugees admitted to the United States
in fiscal year 2016 was 84,994,
according to the Migration Policy Institute.
The number of refugees admitted to the United States
in fiscal year 2019 is 30,009.
The number of refugees admitted to the United States
in fiscal year 2024 is 100,034.
The percentage of Americans who say taking in civilian refugees from countries where
people are trying to escape violence and war should be a policy goal is 72 percent, according
to a September 2022 Pew Research survey.
The ratio of asylum applications received to applications granted in the United States in fiscal year 2016 was 9.62 to 1, according to the Justice Department.
The ratio of asylum applications received to applications granted in the United States
in fiscal year 2019 was 11.49 to 1.
The ratio of asylum applications received to applications granted in the United States
in fiscal year 2023 was 15.14 to one.
And the percentage of Americans who favor temporarily prohibiting individuals from seeking
asylum when the southwest border is overwhelmed is 63 percent, according to a June 2024 Gallup
survey.
And last but not least, our Have a Nice Day story.
In the fourth quarter of the NFL playoff game between the Baltimore Ravens and Buffalo Bills,
Ravens tight end Mark Andrews dropped the ball, literally, in a pivotal opportunity to tie
the game, ending the Ravens' season in dramatic fashion.
Andrews faced a hurl of online criticism and negativity following the game, but Buffalo's
fans came to his defense.
The Bills Mafia, who have a reputation as some of the most positive fans in the league,
created a GoFundMe campaign to raise money for a charity that Andrews supports.
That effort has raised over $125,000 in donations to support children with type 1 diabetes.
Sunny Skies has this story and there's a link in today's episode description.
Alright everybody, that is it for today's episode.
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For Will and the rest of the crew,
this is John Law signing off.
Have a great day, y'all.
Peace.
Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul,
and edited and engineered by Duke Thomas.
Our script is edited by Ari Weitzman,
Will Kavak, Gellysol, and Sean Brady.
The logo for our podcast was made by Magdalena
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Here you can go further, in the classroom, in the field, and well beyond.
We provide personalized education, cultural fluency, and training for in-demand careers.
We don't just prepare you for the future, we prepare you to change it.
Plus Algoma has the most affordable tuition in Ontario.
Make the most of your university experience.
Go further.
Apply to Algoma University today.