Tangle - Trump’s Madison Square Garden rally

Episode Date: October 30, 2024

 On Sunday, October 27, former president and Republican nominee Donald Trump held a rally at a sold-out Madison Square Garden in New York City. Although Trump will be holding a series of rallies — mostly in swing states — for the next week, the event at Madison Square Garden was his last major event with a full complement of guest speakers before Election Day.Ad-free podcasts are here!Many listeners have been asking for an ad-free version of this podcast that they could subscribe to — and we finally launched it. You can go to tanglemedia.supercast.com to sign up!You can read today's podcast⁠ ⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠, our “Under the Radar” story ⁠here and today’s “Have a nice day” story ⁠here⁠.Check out Episode 7 of our podcast series, The Undecideds. Please give us a 5-star rating and leave a comment!Take the survey: What do you think of the recent non-endorsements? Let us know!You can subscribe to Tangle by clicking here or drop something in our tip jar by clicking here. Our podcast is written by Isaac Saul and edited and engineered by Dewey Thomas. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75. Our newsletter is edited by Managing Editor Ari Weitzman, Will Kaback, Bailey Saul, Sean Brady, and produced in conjunction with Tangle’s social media manager Magdalena Bokowa, who also created our logo. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. Got a mortgage? Chances are you're thinking about your payments right now. Need help? Ask your bank about relief measures that may be available to you. Learn more at Canada.ca slash it pays to know. A message from the Government of Canada. From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle.

Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tangle Podcast, the place where you get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of my take. I'm your host, Isaac Saul, and on today's episode, we're going to be talking about the Madison Square Garden rally that former president and current Republican nominee Donald Trump held on Sunday. There was some controversy and some fallout that I think is still kind of ongoing. So we're going to talk about exactly what happened, break down some of the fallout

from the rally, and of course, share some takes from the right and the left, and then my take. So for that, I'm going to pass it over to John to break down the story, and I'll be back with my take. Thanks, Isaac, and welcome, everybody. Here are your quick hits for today. First up, Vice President Kamala Harris delivered a speech billed as her closing pitch to voters at the Ellipse in Washington, D.C. Number two, the Supreme Court declined Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s request to be removed from the presidential ballots in Wisconsin and Michigan.

Separately, the court ruled that Virginia can cancel more than 1,600 voter registrations that the state says are held by non-citizens. Number three, Russia test-fired a series of ground, sea, and air-launched missiles to simulate a nuclear response to an enemy's first strike. Number four, Hezbollah named Naim Qasem as its new leader. Qasem served as deputy chief to the group's former leader, Hassan Nasrallah, who was killed by an Israeli airstrike last month. Separately, at least 93 people were killed in an Israeli airstrike

on a residential building in Gaza, according to the Gaza government media office. Israeli officials said they are investigating the incident. And number five, the conference board's Consumer Confidence Index for October rose more than 11%,

its largest single-month increase since March 2021. Meanwhile, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported that job openings in September decreased by more than 400,000 from the previous month to 7.44 million, the lowest since January 2021. Donald Trump rallying voters in a crucial battleground state tonight as the ugly rhetoric coming from him and his allies is being taken to new extremes. And that's giving new fuel to Kamala Harris, who is now seizing on the divisive message at Trump's event in New York City's famed Madison Square Garden last night. You know, there's a lot going on. Like, I don't know if you guys know this, but there's literally a floating island of garbage in the middle of the ocean right now. Yeah, I think it's called Puerto Rico. Politicians that have been doing this for a long time, 30 and 40 years, said there's never been an event so beautiful. It was like a love fest, an absolute love fest.

And it was my honor to be involved. On Sunday, October 27th, former president and Republican nominee Donald Trump held a rally at a sold out Madison Square Garden in New York City. out Madison Square Garden in New York City. Although Trump will be holding a series of rallies, mostly in swing states, the event at Madison Square Garden was his last major event, with a full complement of guest speakers before Election Day. Before Donald Trump's headline address, his running mate, Senator J.D. Vance, House Speaker Mike Johnson, Elon Musk, Tucker Carlson, former independent presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr., and his sons, Eric and Donald Jr., all spoke. Trump's wife, Melania Trump, gave a rare appearance at the rally, introducing her husband to the stage for the first time during

the 2024 campaign season and speaking warmly about her family's connections to New York City. Some of the speakers who preceded Trump sparked controversy for inflammatory comments they made during the event. Radio host Sid Rosenberg called Hillary Clinton a sick son of a bitch. Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani said Democratic presidential nominee Kamala Harris is on the side of terrorists, and a childhood friend of Trump's called Harris the Antichrist. Perhaps most notably, Tony Hinchcliffe, an insult comic who goes by the stage name Kill Tony, made a series of racial jokes about Palestinians, Jews, Black people, and Puerto Ricans, calling Puerto Rico a floating island of garbage. The joke prompted swift backlash

from Democrats and many Republicans. This joke does not reflect the views of President Trump or the campaign, Trump campaign senior advisor Daniel Alvarez said in a statement, while Senator Rick Scott, the Republican from Florida, said the joke was not funny and it's not true. Roughly half of the 615,000 Latino voters in the critical swing state of Pennsylvania are Puerto Rican, and the comments sparked outrage in towns like Allentown, where Trump visited on Tuesday. Also on Tuesday, President Joe Biden started a controversy of his own while criticizing the joke, saying the only garbage I see floating out there are his supporters. Biden attempted to clarify his comments later, saying he was referring to the rhetoric of Trump's allies. Trump spoke for over an hour at the Garden, delivering the message that he would return

stability to the border and restore the pre-COVID economy he oversaw as president. He debuted a tax credit proposal for family caregivers, which was aimed at older Americans and blue-collar workers. He also attacked his opponent, calling Vice President Kamala Harris a very low-IQ individual. The former president expressed optimism about his electoral chances in New York, urging the crowd to vote and saying that winning New York would be an honor. Together, we will make America powerful again. We will make America wealthy again. We will make America healthy again.

We will make America strong again. We will make America healthy again. We will make America strong again. We will make America proud again. We will make America safe again. And we will make America great again, Trump said to close his speech. Today, we'll get into what the right and the left are saying about the rally, and then Isaac's take. We'll be right back after this quick break. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried

history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. Are you sure you parked over here? Do you see it anywhere? I think it's back this way. Come on. Hey, you're going the wrong way. Feeling distracted? You're not alone. Whether renting, considering buying a home, or renewing a mortgage, many Canadians are finding it hard to focus with housing costs on their minds. For free tools and resources to help you manage your home finances and clear your head,

visit Canada.ca slash ItPaysToKnow. A message from the government of Canada. All right, first up, let's start with what the right is saying. The right criticizes the media's coverage of the rally, arguing the event was really one of joy and positivity. Some push back on the left's likening of the event to a Nazi rally. Others say the best and worst of Trump's approach to politics were on full display. In Fox News, Lee Hartley Carter wrote,

I was at Trump's Madison Square Garden rally. The left-wing media totally botched its coverage. Contrary to reports painting the event as a gathering of racism, rage, and misogyny, I observed a crowd brimming with joy and camaraderie, ears ringing from all the chants of USA of racism, rage, and misogyny, I observed a crowd brimming with joy and camaraderie, ears ringing from all the chants of USA, USA, USA. I left the venue reflecting on Trump's latest slogan, make America dream again. And I have to admit, for the first time in a long time, it felt like better days might still be possible, Carter said. Others there that night,

however, walked away with much darker and foreboding interpretations of the very same event. It's as if there were two rallies for Trump on Sunday night, one for those who love him and one for those who hate him. Were there dark moments during Trump's speech? Certainly. I wasn't there early enough to see the comedian make his misguided and awful joke about Puerto Rico. Despite some moments of indignation and anger, which Democrats express all the time without all the media pearl-clutching, the room was filled with countless uplifting moments of hope and patriotism, Carter wrote. Trump resonates with tens of millions of Americans because he doesn't look down on them. He doesn't ridicule their lives or the people they are or the things they like.

Rather than scolding them, he empowers his followers to dream big again. In the New York Post, Lily Zuckerman criticized those who described the event as a Trump-Nazi rally. The first thing I noticed was all the Jews. Inside the arena and out, Jews were everywhere. Orthodox Jews wearing kippahs, tzitzit, fringes worn beneath their shirts and black hats, others wearing Star of David necklaces, others waving Israeli flags, Zuckerman said. I heard several people speaking Hebrew as we waited on a 90-minute line to get in. As my mother, a conservative rabbi, and I waited, we noticed several outwardly Jewish people politely escorted in as VIP guests.

What self-respecting Nazi would allow so many Jews to be honored guests at his rally? Kamala Harris' rallies have been completely unable to muster the same vibrance and joy that suffused the entire arena Sunday night. They certainly haven't attracted openly observant Jews, or for that matter, outwardly religious people of any stripe, Zuckerman wrote. The Democrats have leveled their disgraceful, baseless smears equating Trump to Hitler for almost a decade now, but their insults attack not only Trump,

but half or more of the American people who support him. And the Washington Examiner, W. James Antle III explored the pros and cons of Trump's political showmanship. Time will tell whether former President Donald Trump's massive rally at Madison Square Garden was the beginning of a successful closing argument of the MAGA movement's electoral swan song, Antle said. The event was nevertheless consistent with Trump's now nearly decade-long political career, risky unscripted events that few people running for office would ever attempt that drive the news cycle for days, but not always to his benefit, from a master showman who has formed a deep emotional connection

with his supporters. No matter how much time Trump devotes to his stump speech, the headlines will inevitably be on his most controversial off-script comments. In the social media age, the campaign circulates snippets of these speeches and many more people hear about Puerto Rico, Arnold Palmer, and eating dogs than they will ever hear or watch the whole outing, much less whatever Trump says about trade or tax policy, Antle wrote.

At the same time, Trump has subscribed to the theory that there is no such thing as bad publicity dating back to his early days in New York real estate. Trump has demonstrated you can outlast adverse headlines and even calamitous events because the news cycle moves so quickly. All right, that is it for what the right is saying, which brings us to what the left is saying. The left says the rally epitomized the divisiveness of Trump's movement. Some suggest the event ended up being a show of weakness. Others argue Democrats' flawed strategy allows Trump to remain a force in U.S. politics.

In The Atlantic, David A. Graham said the rally encapsulated Trump's message. A childhood pal of Donald Trump's called Vice President Kamala Harris the Antichrist and the Devil. Radio host Sid Rosenberg called her husband, Doug Emhoff, a crappy Jew. Tucker Carlson had a riff about Harris vying to be the first Samoan-Malaysian low-IQ former California prosecutor ever to be elected president, Graham wrote. This, all of this, is the message of Trump's campaign. Other Republicans may cringe at the coarseness of these comments or worry that they will cost votes, but they made their choice long ago

and have stuck with them despite years of bigotry and other ugliness. Trump is running on nativism, crude stereotypes, and lies about immigrants. He has demeaned Harris in offensive and personal terms. He's attacked American Jews for not supporting him. His disdain for Puerto Rico is longstanding, and his callousness after Hurricane Maria in 2017 was one of the most appalling moments of an appalling presidency, Graham said. The whole point of the rally was provocation.

Trump has long demonstrated a view that it's better when people are talking about him, even if they're outraged, than talking about anyone else. As an encapsulation of what Trump stands for as a candidate and what he would bring to office, the rally was an effective medium for his closing message. else. As an encapsulation of what Trump stands for as a candidate and what he would bring to office, the rally was an effective medium for his closing message. In the New York Times, Jamel Bowie argued the rally showed Trump is less confident than he says. Donald Trump's rally at Madison Square Garden on Sunday night was supposed to be the capstone event of his campaign, a triumphant celebration of authoritarian strength. But what works in in theory, does not always deliver in practice.

And in practice, Trump's climactic rally at Madison Square Garden was nothing short of a disaster, Bowie wrote. Did Trump have the crowds he wanted? Yes, but that was the extent of success that night. His overall message was dark, disturbing, and autocratic, as you might expect from a man whose top officials have been warning us

about his fascistic tendencies. I'm sure to some observers, all of this, even the terrible racist jokes, looks like the confidence and resolve of a determined political movement. But I think it's just the opposite. Far from showing strength, the Madison Square Garden rally showed that, however vicious and virulent its leaders and supporters might be, the MAGA movement is a spent and exhausted force, even if it's not yet defeated, Bowie said. None of this means that Trump is headed for defeat or that he can't win,

but watching a lackluster rally headlined by the rambling patter of a tired candidate struggling to capture the attention of his audience, it is clear that neither he nor his movement has the juice. In Jacobin, Branko Marketic wrote, Donald Trump's hateful rally has no real answer from Democrats. It's too early to say if a piece of arrogance-driven self-sabotage is what the campaign's incendiary racist rally

at Madison Square Garden last night is going to end up being, but it certainly fits the bill, Marketic said. Yet Trump, a deeply unpopular figure who the majority of the country thinks is dishonest, mean-spirited, and embarrassing, is still a finger away from the presidency for the third time. The hateful, venomous nature of Trump's political project

isn't going to be exercised through scolding and finger-wagging, but by thorough and conclusive political defeat and having an alternative political project firmly established in the public's mind as an actual, viable way forward for the country out of the many things that currently ail it. That brings us to the problem. Both of these things are, right now, largely out of our hands and exclusively up to the hapless, incompetent, and corporate-dominated Democrat Party, one that has chosen a risky, already once-failed campaign strategy for this election, was at one point willing to lose disastrously to Trump and Republicans out of loyalty to its frail and unfit leader, and has stubbornly refused, despite nearly a year of efforts by activists, to stop facilitating the nihilistic campaign Trump and Republicans out of loyalty to its frail and unfit leader and has stubbornly refused,

despite nearly a year of efforts by activists, to stop facilitating the nihilistic campaign of mass murder that has divided its supporters and imperiled its election chances. All right, let's head over to Isaac for his take. All right, that is it for what the left and the right are saying, which brings us to my take. When the Madison Square Garden story initially broke, I actually did not think we would cover it. In a lot of ways, it was the typical fair. Trump rallies are and have always been something akin to a carnival. There are guest speakers doing odd bits, preachers and prayer, comedians and musical performances, jokes and policy, insults and anger, and then, always, Trump himself bringing the show home with a little bit of everything. Trump's New York event featured a massive lineup of guests,

a huge sold-out arena, and an hours-long tour de force of classic campaign puffery, surprise policy rollouts, and complete and utter nonsense. Many readers were abuzz over this particular event. Many listeners were abuzz over this particular event. Some wrote into me asking how I felt about quote-unquote Trump's Nazi rally at Madison Square Garden, despite the fact it was a rally heavily attended by Jews and actually more diverse than pretty much any Republican event I had seen in the last few years. Since it apparently is not obvious, Trump wasn't holding a rally at the Garden to call back to 1930s fascism. He was doing it because New York Republicans are key to

maintaining control of the House, because he is a New Yorker himself, because he feels he was unjustly persecuted in New York, and because there is nothing more meaningful to New York entertainers than selling out a show at the Garden. And then the joke happened. Or to put it more acutely, the joke got traction in the press. My initial reaction to Tony Hinchcliffe quipping that there's a literal floating island of garbage in the middle of the ocean right now, I think it's called Puerto Rico, was much closer to Jon Stewart's than anyone else's. The guy is an insult comedian, a roast specialist. What did people think he was going to do? He rants about women, Jews, black people, Arabs, white people, and everyone under the sun,

and he hit almost every group at the rally. I happen to think he can actually be pretty funny. If you were familiar with his work like I am, or even saw him at the roast of Tom Brady, which I did, then you know, like most comedians, he gets a great thrill out of pushing the line. Honestly, the joke about Puerto Rico is far from the most incendiary bit from one of his sets that I've seen. It was also one of the least funny, which is maybe why it landed so poorly. For some reason, very few people are talking about that. The joke was just not very funny or creative. I'm sure if he had found a more clever, nuanced, or actually funny way to make fun of Puerto Ricans,

we wouldn't even be having this conversation. So I found the initial reaction to be overkill and was surprised that it got so much traction. But there's no doubt that the blowback is real and could be meaningful. Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens, often underappreciated and forgotten citizens. The island is a beautiful place and its people have a lot of pride not just in where they come from, but the fact that they are both American and Puerto Rican. There's something about this moment in particular, with Puerto Rico fighting to become a U.S. state and Puerto Ricans becoming more relevant as a voting bloc, that felt like kindling before the controversy that this joke sparked. How do we know it matters? Well, look at how the campaigns reacted. Organizers on the ground in Pennsylvania started activating around the issue.

Kamala Harris's team immediately cut an ad around the comments. And perhaps most obviously, the Trump team immediately distanced itself from the comments, an extremely rare thing these days, and a slew of Republicans disavowed them. All of this is to say nothing of the fact that the joke totally overshadowed Trump's policy proposal to give tax credits to caregivers, which pretty much nobody is talking about, though the proposal's details are sparse. Last week, I wrote how I categorized stories about things Trump said into four buckets. One bucket I did not include was things Trump supporters say that get him into hot water, but in retrospect, it could have easily been included. After all, the campaign reportedly cut a joke from Hinchcliffe's set where he called Harris the C-word, which implies that

they vetted the material and still let the joke about Puerto Rico fly. It was a silly and reckless move from a campaign well-positioned to win this election, but still often prone to getting in its own way. Of course, it would be the irony of all ironies if after everything Trump or his allies have said or joked about in the last nine years, a joke from an insult comic actually meaningfully impacted this race. Doubly so given Biden's rejoinder on Tuesday when he inexplicably referred to Trump supporters as garbage while Harris was trying to drive a news cycle with her final major speech of the race. Some Democrats and even reporters in the press have tried to deny it's what Biden said,

even going so far as to deceitfully edit the transcript, but you can watch the clip for yourself. To me, far more worrisome than any joke from Hinchcliffe was the lineup of actual politicians, pundits, and friends of Trump calling his opponent the Antichrist, claiming Harris was on the side of the terrorists, or proclaiming that they would not believe the results if Harris wins. The rally featured plenty of things for supporters to get excited about or critics to fret over, but an off-color joke should be pretty far down either list. We'll be right back after this quick break. We'll be right back after this quick break. mismatched cousins who reunite for a tour through Poland to honor their beloved grandmother. The adventure takes a turn when the pair's old tensions resurface against the backdrop of their family history. A Real Pain was one of the buzziest titles at Sundance Film Festival this year,

garnering rave reviews and acclaim from both critics and audiences alike. See A Real Pain only in theaters November 15th. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. Whether renting, renewing a mortgage, or considering buying a home, everybody has housing costs on their minds. For free tools and resources to help you manage your home finances,

visit Canada.ca slash ItPaysToKnow. A message from the Government of Canada. All right, that is it for my take, which brings us to your questions answer. This one's from an anonymous reader in Sterling, Massachusetts, who said, what percentage of the GOP was voting for Haley in the primary well after Trump had it locked up? Where are they now in terms of being likely voters and who they'll vote for or not vote for, etc.? So I'll answer the second question first. The proportion of primary voters who go against the eventual nominee after the race is assured is usually a good indication of dissatisfaction among the base. A good deal of those voters will definitely not be voting for Trump in 2024,

but a considerable number of them will. In many ways, predicting what that proportion will be is just an educated guessing game. That said, let's get into the numbers on the first question. On March 5th, Donald Trump cruised to a commanding victory on Super Tuesday of the Republican primaries. The next day, Nikki Haley dropped out. Republicans held caucuses in several states over the next two weeks, but we can look at some of the more contentious ones in the cycle more closely. Arizona, Florida, and Georgia. Haley won 17.8% of the vote in Arizona,

13.9% in Florida, where DeSantis won 3.7%, and 13.2% in Georgia. By comparison, the uncommitted vote in Michigan that could prove seismic in this election won 13.2% against then-candidate Biden. So the raw comparison makes it very easy to say that the protest coalition within Trump's party is stronger than the protest coalition among Democrats.

But also consider that more Republicans voted in the primaries than Democrats. Just look at the discrepancy in Michigan. So it could be that more Republican voters cared enough to show up to vote against Trump that we know of, or independent voters cared enough to register to do so, while an even larger number of voters were motivated to show up at all for the Democratic primary, which makes sense as Biden faced no meaningful challenge. So the answer to your second question may well provide the key to this election. An equally decisive question

may be how many anti-Harris voters are going to stay home. All right, that is it for today's listener question. I'm going to send it back to John for the rest of the pod, and I'll see you guys tomorrow. Peace. Thanks, Isaac.

Here's your Under the Radar story for today, folks. The social media platform X, formerly known as Twitter, feeds users a steady stream of political content regardless of its stated interests, according to an experiment conducted by reporters at The Wall Street Journal. The reporters created new accounts on the platform and indicated that they were interested in non-political subjects like cooking and crafts during the sign-up process. After their accounts were made, however, they found that roughly half of their posts in their For You feed, which recommends posts that X's algorithm thinks will be of interest to a specific user, were political in nature. A pro-Kamala Harris account appeared most frequently,

but right-leaning content was more prevalent overall. Additionally, the platform often suggested Elon Musk, X's owner, as the first account for a new user to follow. The Wall Street Journal has this story, and there's a link in today's episode description. All right, next up is our numbers section. Madison Square Garden's capacity is 19,500. Kamala Harris's polling lead over Donald Trump in New York as of October 29th is 15.9%, according to FiveThirtyEight. Joe Biden's margin of victory over Donald Trump in New York in 2020 was 23.2%. Hillary Clinton's margin of victory over Trump

in New York in 2016 was 22.7%. The year Puerto Ricans were conferred statutory U.S. citizenship was 1917, though only Puerto Ricans with residency in one of the 50 states or Washington, D.C. can vote in federal elections. The percentage of Pennsylvanians who are of Puerto Rican origin is 3.7%. The percentage of North Carolinians who are of Puerto Rican origin is 1.2%. And the percentage of Georgians and Wisconsinites who are of Puerto Rican origin is 1.1%. Alright, and last but not least, our Have a Nice Day story. The RMS Titanic has fascinated individuals far and wide since its wreck in 1912. One Georgia-based company, RMS Titanic Inc., recently made an exciting discovery while living out its mission to preserve the ship's legacy.

recently made an exciting discovery while living on its mission to preserve the ship's legacy. On an expedition to the ocean floor, researchers found a statue of the Greek goddess Diana that had once sat atop a fireplace mantle on board the vessel. James Penka, a member of the discovery team, said, It's truly a needle in a haystack that is two and a half miles underwater in pitch black darkness. Good News Network has this story and there's a link in today's episode description. All right, everybody, that is it for today's episode. As always, if you'd like to support our work, please go to retangle.com and sign up for a membership. You can now also sign up for our ad-free premium podcasts that include Friday editions and Sunday editions at

tanglemedia.supercast.com. We'll be right back here tomorrow. For Isaac and the rest of the crew, this is John Law signing off. Have a great day, y'all. Peace. Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul, and edited and engineered by David Thomas. Our script is edited by Ari Weitzman, Will Kabak, Bailey Saul, and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was made by Magdalena Bokova, who is also our social media manager. The music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75. And if you're looking for more from Tangle, please go check out our website at readtangle.com. That's readtangle.com.