Tangle - Trump’s pick for Labor secretary.

Episode Date: November 26, 2024

On Friday, President-elect Donald Trump named Rep. Lori Chavez-DeRemer (R-OR) as his nominee for Labor secretary. Chavez-DeRemer, who narrowly lost her bid for re-election to the House, is considered one of the most pro-union Republicans in Congress, and her nomination serves as another signal that the GOP’s historically adversarial stance toward unions may be changing.Ad-free podcasts are here!Many listeners have been asking for an ad-free version of this podcast that they could subscribe to — and we finally launched it. You can go to tanglemedia.supercast.com to sign up!You can read today's podcast⁠ ⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠, our “Under the Radar” story ⁠here and today’s “Have a nice day” story ⁠here⁠.We are hiring!In the last month or so, the rapid growth of our readership has accelerated a planned expansion of our team. We are hiring for:Assistant to the editor. We are also looking for a highly organized individual dedicated to Tangle's mission who has a passion for multimedia and politics. This person will be working directly with Tangle's executive editor Isaac Saul out of Tangle HQ in Philadelphia, with a start date in February-March. Job listing here.Take the survey: Which party do you think best represents the working class? Let us know!You can subscribe to Tangle by clicking here or drop something in our tip jar by clicking here. Our podcast is written by Isaac Saul and edited and engineered by Dewey Thomas. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75. Our newsletter is edited by Managing Editor Ari Weitzman, Will Kaback, Bailey Saul, Sean Brady, and produced in conjunction with Tangle’s social media manager Magdalena Bokowa, who also created our logo. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

From executive producer, Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening. And welcome to the Tangle podcast, the place we get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking and a little bit of my take. I am your host, Isaac Saul, back in the hosting man's chair. Before you jump into anything today, I want to give a quick shout out and thank you to Ari and Will and John and Magdalena, who you might have noticed took over some podcasting duties the last few days, Thursday, Friday, Sunday, and Monday. I had a little bit of a family emergency pop up late last week.

It was a scary few days, but things are good. We got some good news. Things turned to corner. So I'm back in the hosting chair before our break for Thanksgiving. And I really appreciate the team stepping up and stepping in for me. So thank you to all of them. Again, I apologize for a little bit of an absence, but nice to know we can always flex and bring some other people in and still continue to bring you guys awesome content. Before we jump into today's main story,

which ironically is about Representative Lori Chavez-Doremer, I have a correction about Representative Lori Chavez-Doremer. I have a correction about Representative Lori Chavez-Doremer from yesterday's podcast. We incorrectly identified her in the newsletter, actually not in the podcast, as a Democrat from Washington. She's a Republican from Oregon. We got it right on the podcast, but we got it wrong in the newsletter

because ironically, again, we were testing out a tool to help us catch errors. So we intentionally created an error in the newsletter, ran it through the tool, and then forgot to correct the error before we published the newsletter. But it was correct in the podcast. Those of you who go back and forth, we want to let you know we made the mistake. Very annoying, very silly. Our quest, First Streak Without Errors, begins today anew. Also, a quick heads up that we are headed

into Thanksgiving break, so we will not have a normal podcast tomorrow. I do have a podcast I'm planning to record there today or tomorrow morning that we'll share with you, so keep an eye out for that. And then we're going to take a few days off and I'll explain why tomorrow. So with that, I'm gonna pass it off to John

for our main topic today, which is Trump's pick for Labor Secretary, which is Representative Laurie Chavez-Duriemer. And I hope you guys enjoy. I'll be back for my take. ["Dreams of a New World"] Thanks, Isaac, and welcome everybody. Here are your quick hits for today.

First up, Judge Tanya Chutkin granted special counsel Jack Smith's request to drop all charges against President-elect Donald Trump in his 2020 election interference case. Additionally, Smith filed to dismiss his appeal in Trump's classified documents case in Florida. Number two, the Israeli cabinet is close to approving a ceasefire deal with Hezbollah, according to a spokesperson for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Separately, the United Arab Emirates arrested three Uzbek nationals as suspects in the killing of a Jewish community leader, which Israel described as an act of anti-Semitic terrorism.

3. President-elect Trump's legal team has reportedly uncovered evidence that a top advisor, Boris Epstein, has been soliciting retainer fees from potential appointees to promote them for jobs in the new administration. Number four, in a post on Truth Social,

President-elect Donald Trump said he would sign an executive order imposing 25% tariffs on all products from Canada and Mexico on his first day in office. Trump added that the tariffs would remain in effect until the two countries took steps to stop the flow of drugs and unauthorized migrants into the United States. Kellen Gheorghescu won the first round of voting in Romania's presidential election

in a surprise result. Gheorghescu, a far-right candidate who has criticized NATO and praised Russian President Vladimir Putin, now advances to a runoff against center-right candidate Elena Laskoini. President-elect Donald Trump has picked Oregon Congresswoman Lori Chavez-Doremer as his nominee to lead the Labor Department. Chavez-Doremer narrowly lost reelection against Janelle Bynum earlier this month. She received strong backing from union members in her district. On Friday, President-elect Donald Trump named Representative Lori Chavez-Doremer, the Republican

from Oregon, as his nominee for Labor Secretary. Chavez-Doremer, who narrowly, as his nominee for Labor Secretary. Chavez de Remer, who narrowly lost her bid for re-election to the House, is considered one of the most pro-union Republicans in Congress, and her nomination serves as another signal that the GOP's historically adverse stance toward unions might be changing. The Secretary of Labor leads the Department of Labor, which manages rules, regulations, and laws for wages, occupational safety, unionization, workers' rights, and unemployment benefits, among other things.

During her sole term in Congress, Chavez de Rember was one of just three Republicans to cosponsor the Protecting the Right to Organize, or PRO Act, a top legislative priority for President Joe Biden. The bill would have weakened right-to-work laws, which generally exempt a worker from having to join a union that a majority of workers have voted to join, and made unionizing easier for workers. Several Democratic senators also introduced a companion bill, but it was not passed. Immediately after Chavez de Rémer's nomination was announced, some Republicans and business

leaders expressed skepticism. Senator Bill Cassidy, the Republican from Louisiana, said he would need to get a better understanding of her support for Democratic legislation in Congress that would strip Louisiana's ability to be a right-to-work state and if that will be her position going forward. Meanwhile, some Democrats and union leaders spoke out in support. Chavez de Rember has the backing of the Teamsters president, Sean O'Brien, one of the most powerful union leaders in the country. Thank you, at Real Donald Trump, for putting American workers first by nominating Representative Laurie Chavez de Remer, O'Brien said on X. Other labor groups, like the AFL-CIO,

responded to the pick with caution. Donald Trump is the President-Elect of the United States, not Representative Chavez de Remer, and it remains to be seen what she'll be permitted to do as Secretary of Labor in an administration with a dramatically anti-worker agenda, AFL-CIO President Liz Schuller said. Today, we're going to examine some of the reactions to Chavez de Remer's nomination from the left and the right, and then Isaac's take. We'll be right back after this quick break. Alright, first up, let's start with what the left is saying. The left suggests the pick will exacerbate tensions within the Republican Party. Some doubt that Chavez-Durama will be a true ally to workers under Trump.

Others say Chavez-Durama should pursue an unabashed pro-worker agenda as Labor Secretary. In the New York Times, Farrah Stockman wrote about the Republican freakout over Trump's pick. It might be the most shocking news yet to come out of this roller coaster of a transition. After weeks of choosing cabinet secretaries who seem determined to destroy the agency's day lead, Donald Trump announced the choice of a secretary of labor whom many American workers actually like, Stockman said. Her nomination puts the economic populist wing of the Republican Party on a collision

course with the more traditional Republicans, who have always been on the side of company bosses. She embodies the contradiction that is the Trump coalition. It won political power with widespread support from blue-collar workers, but has up until this point looked poised to hand the federal government over to business-friendly billionaires. So why did Trump risk alienating the right wing by choosing Chavez de Remer? Maybe he felt the need to throw a bone to labor. President Biden, the

most union-friendly president in living memory, is a tough act to follow, Stockman wrote. More likely, he wants to publicly reward the Teamsters president, Sean O'Brien, who is said to have pushed personally for Chavez de Remer's nomination. If Trump wants to prove that he is really on the side of American workers, however, he's going to have to do more than one cabinet nomination. In MSNBC, Zeeshan Aleem asked, is Trump's surprising labor secretary pick good news for America? Trump's pick of Representative Laurie Chavez de Rember of Oregon is in line with some of

the GOP's recent rhetorical softening in its general hostility to organized labor. But other parts of the incoming administration have lined up behind many anti-labor policies, and it's too early to tell if naming Chavez-Duremer means anything more than projecting labor-friendly optics," Alim said. While Chavez-Duremer has supported some pro-union policies, she's far from a leftist hiding in a Republican suit. The AFL-CIO gave Chavez-Duremer a 10% score on her first and only term in Congress when assessing her votes on issues important to working families. There is a good reason to

be skeptical that Chavez-Doremer represents a major turn on labor for the GOP. Chavez-Doremer's ideological outlook matters, but ultimately she'll be taking cues from Trump," Olim wrote. Trump and MAGA politicians, such as Vance, have begun paying lip service to the idea that organized labor deserves some rhetorical support. But if they remain on the same anti-labor policy track that they always have been, and I suspect for the most part they will, it's best to understand it as a cynical plot

to cleave the working class and drag them rightward. For the Economic Policy Institute, Celine McNicholas outlined the policies that will determine whether Trump's Labor Secretary pick supports workers. Chavez-Duremer has stated that working-class Americans finally have a lifeline, with President-elect Trump in the White House. If workers truly have an ally in Chavez-Duremer, she will advance policies that improve workers' lives. Here are a few policies that will reveal whether the second Trump administration will actually aid working-class Americans," McNicholas said.

Win funding for the Department of Labor that enables the agency to serve the U.S. workforce. Chavez-Durhamer should fight for and secure at least a $14 billion budget to ensure that U.S. workers have health and safety inspectors and wage and hour investigators on the job to enforce their rights. Chavez-Durhamer should fight for workers' right to overtime. She should not allow the Trump administration to once again institute a lower salary threshold for overtime eligibility that leaves millions of workers without these protections," McNicholas wrote.

Refuse to institute the Payroll Audit Independent Determination Program. This program was instituted during Trump's first administration and essentially permits employers who have stolen workers' wages to confess and get out of jail free. Chavez-Durama should make it harder for employers to steal workers' wages. Not easier. Alright, that is it for what the left is saying, which brings us to what the right is saying. The right is mixed on the pick, with many criticizing Chavez de Rembert's strong pro-union

position. Some question why Trump would choose someone with liberal views on labor issues for a position of such importance. Others say Trump is bolstering his bonaafides as a pro-worker president. The Wall Street Journal editorial board said Trump's choice puts unions over workers. Mr. Trump said Chavez-Duremer will work toward historic cooperation between business and labor.

But Ms. Chavez-Duremer has backed union giveaways like the Pro Act, which are not cooperation. Hence the enthusiasm from labor bosses, the board wrote. The Pro Act would effectively ban gig jobs and codify the Biden National Labor Relations Board's Joint Employer Standard, which would upend the franchise business model and contracting agreements to make it easier for unions to organize workers. The result would be less autonomy for franchisees and small businesses that contract with bigger firms.

Some Republicans think enhancing union power will help Republicans win more elections. Then why did Ms. Chavez-Duremer lose her re-election? The reality is that the pro-labor agenda espoused by union honchos isn't all that popular among working class voters, the board said. Republicans can work with unions to improve workforce training and increase alternative education pathways like apprenticeships, but putting Ms. Chavez-Duremer in charge of labor will make labor bosses, not workers, more powerful again. In his newsletter, Eric Woods Erickson argued the left's reaction to the pick should be

a warning sign to Republicans. Many Trump supporters have gone from, he's playing 4D chess, to, these picks don't really matter, but being in the line of presidential succession matters. More so, it was through the Labor Secretary that COVID vaccine mandates, employee shutdowns, etc. happened. The Labor Secretary is a vitally important role. Donald Trump's Labor Secretary may be an attempt to shift labor votes to the GOP, but it is not a smart move, Erickson wrote. Chavez de Rimmer has supported amnesty in every way, shape, and form. She'll have a great deal of personal say in regulations related to employment of illegal

aliens and the inspection of businesses that are suspected of hiring illegal aliens. She also supports expanded union participation of government workers. Chavez-Durhamer has repeatedly been the Republican vote for Democrats' repeated attempts to force all government employees into government unions. She's even supported the right to strike as a government employee, Erickson said. Putting Chavez-Duremer into the Department of Labor is causing Democrats to cheer, and that should be a warning sign to Republicans. She's a terrible pick, and she is a pick that matters. In the American Compass, Bhatia Ungar Sargan argued, Trump's nominee for Secretary of Labor puts meat on the bones for a working-class GOP.

President-elect Donald Trump has been steadily rolling out his picks for his cabinet in a made-for-TV nomination process that's gripped the nation, that the same talking heads who helped the Democrats lose the working class are now losing their minds over his choices suggest that he's right over the target. But a few picks are making Republican elites equally furious, including Trump's choice for Secretary of Labor, Ungar Sargon wrote. In the surest sign that her candidacy is a boon for workers, the big business lobby is already lining up against her. Trump hasn't been shy to adopt the best ideas from both sides, even from progressives. Recall that it was progressives who used to support tariffs and progressives who used to support controlling the border and deporting illegal immigrants and protect wages, Ungar Sargon said.

That Trump has married his proposed tariffs and hawkish immigration policy with such an aggressively pro-labor secretary for the Department of Labor shows how serious he is about representing the working-class Americans who gave him his victory. Alright, let's head over to Isaac for his take. Alright, that is it for with the left and the writer saying which brings us to my take. So Chavez Dreamer is by far the most fascinating pick Trump has made for his cabinet. A few things about this nomination stick out to me that I think are worth bookmarking. First, it's our billionth reminder that Trump is driven by relationships just as much as ideology. Teamsters president, Sean O'Brien made a decision to pursue a relationship with Trump

and that Chavez Dreamer was O'Brien's preferred pick for this role has been well reported. What goes on behind the scenes of any incoming administration is always a bit of a black box, but Democrats who are interested in influencing the Trump administration in its second term should take note. He is always open for business. Second, watching the evolution of the Republican Party take place right in front of us is incredible, truly. Is this pick going to set up inter-party fights among labor and anti-labor advocates in the GOP?

Yes, it will. No political evolution though, happens without some tension. It is totally undeniable now that Republicans led by Trump and vice president elect, J.B. Vance, are working hard to rebrand themselves some tension. It is totally undeniable now that Republicans led by Trump and Vice President-elect J.D. Vance are working hard to rebrand themselves as a conservative party that can be compatible with both business leaders and unions. I don't know of a single political scientist, pundit, or talking head who had this on their bingo card in 2015, yet here we are.

Third, Democrats are still being dragged down by decades old issues like NAFTA and immigration, which Republicans have used to win back unionized working class voters. I really don't know what the play is for Democrats now. Biden was genuinely the most pro-union president we've seen in decades. Winning union workers was supposed to be his bread and butter.

He literally helped save the Teamsters union pension plan with an infusion of federal funds. And the Teamsters followed that effort by declining to endorse a presidential candidate for the first time since 1996, albeit after Harris had replaced Biden atop the ticket. Now, O'Brien seems embedded in Trump's orbit. Biden simply couldn't translate his support into legislation

or the goodwill he earned onto Kamala Harris or the party writ large. Looking ahead, Trump and Republicans have to quickly find a way to strike a balance between pushing the Republican ethos of a deregulated, unlocked economy while also courting workers and unions to their cause. Chavez-Durimer is clearly part of that plan. What happens next? I genuinely have no idea. I can't imagine anyone does.

Chavez-Durima has backed legislation like the PRO Act that is simply incompatible with the worldviews of so many high-level Republicans and interest groups elsewhere in the Trump's cabinet and especially in the halls of Congress. If I had to guess, I would say that we're not too far from a genuine internal battle that pits these new GOP factions against each other

I expect that battle to play out not just in public facing language and political posturing But also with the legislation introduced to Congress and regulatory changes throughout the executive branch agencies We're set up to watch the Republican elite and establish from face off against the new Trump right all over again But this time with business leaders and rich executives on one side and unions and labor advocates on the other. Now, think about what the butterfly effect of this kind of internal division could be. For instance, Democrats could recalibrate and try to start picking off free market and disillusioned Republicans

who view this as a step too far for the party. How far out of character would an institutionalist approach really be for the party that's over 55% college graduates? Or, conversely, they could double down on competing for working class unionized voters and other labor groups that wouldn't be too hard to imagine either. Optimistically, there is a world where the lower third of the income strata in the U.S. suddenly gets more attention and support from political parties over the next four years than it ever has.

The giant question is what does the support look like? Will it be beefing up union protections and making it easier to organize? Will it be massive deregulatory efforts and tax cuts? Will it be health care expansions or immigration crackdowns or worker safety laws or child care funding or minimum wage increases? Again, I have no idea. I'm honestly not sure Trump or the party does either. But for now, Shada's dreamer is a sign that change and disruption are coming and that the political factions of 2025 won't be the same ones we've gotten used to. We'll be right back after this quick break. All right. That is it for my take, which brings us to your questions answered. This one today is actually a note to self from September 5th.

We left a note to ourselves to follow up on a take from last September following Ukraine's Kursk offensive. From time to time, we make a note to self to follow up on issues that we cover that quickly fall out of the public eye or to circle back on particularly strong takes to see how those situations have progressed. A couple of months ago when we were researching Ukraine's Kursk Offensive, we came across what we thought was a particularly bold take from Paul Schwennison in Reason. Here's what he wrote, quote, though it may seem astonishingly premature to say so, my impression after returning from the Russian front is that the war in Ukraine is over and

that the powers that be haven't realized it yet. In the Kursalian, at least, I can personally attest to the eerie, almost surreal inversion of spirits between the people of Russia and the people of Ukraine. The moral scales have now firmly settled on the side of the Ukrainian defenders, and it is far likelier that Russia itself splinters into its constituent republics than that the Ukraine falls to its erstwhile invaders. We had read a lot of editorials about the Kursk offensive that we thought were overly optimistic about Ukraine potentially turning the tide of the war and

Even among those we thought Shwenitsyn stood out. He didn't completely miss the mark He's right that Ukraine's military is nowhere near its breaking point. But frankly this take was just wrong It doesn't look like an end to the war without Ukrainian territorial concessions is anywhere on the horizon at the moment Let alone Russia splintering into constituent republics. Now, I'm not just trying to dunk on Shuenin here. He's been reporting from the front lines, which takes incredible courage, and he's reporting what he sees accurately. He's just interpreting it through a lens of bias that we all have.

If I were embedded with Ukrainian forces on a surprise offensive over enemy lines, I'm sure that would skew my point of view too. Shuenin has been writing from the front every couple of months lines, I'm sure that would skew my point of view too. Shrinnessan has been writing from the front every couple of months, and I'm eager to read what he says next. But looking back on this writing now, I think it's clear he went way too far

in predicting where things were headed. All right, that is it for our note to self, which is tagging in for your questions answered today. I'm gonna send it back to John for the rest of the pod, and I'll be back tomorrow. Have a good one. Peace. Thanks Isaac. Here's your under the radar story for today, folks. The typical cost of Thanksgiving dinner is down from 2023, but remains far higher than it was in 2019. The American Farm Bureau of Federation's annual survey, which tracks nationwide prices

for a basket of Thanksgiving staples, found that a Thanksgiving dinner for 10 will cost about $58 this year, a 5% decrease from last year, but roughly a 20% increase from pre-pandemic prices not adjusted for inflation. When adjusting for inflation though, this year's basket is one of the cheapest in decades.

Still, 44% of Thanksgiving hosts say they are concerned about the cost of their dinner this year. Axios has this story and there's a link in today's episode description. Alright, next up is our numbers section. The percentage of American workers who were represented by a union in 1983 was 20.1% according to Pew Research. The percentage of American workers who were represented by a union in 2023 is 10%. The percentage of Americans who approved of labor unions

in August, 2024 was 70% according to Gallup. The percentage of Americans who approved of labor unions in August of 2016 is 56%. The increase in the percentage of Americans who approved of labor unions in August of 2016 is 56%. The increase in the percentage of Americans who would like to see labor unions have more influence from 2016 to 2023 is plus 7%. The increase in the percentage of Americans who think labor unions mostly help the U.S. economy from 2016 to 2023 is plus 9%. The percentage of Americans who think the Democratic and Republican parties, respectively,

best serve the interests of labor union members is 62% and 27%. And the estimated percentage of voters in the 2024 election from union households was 18%, according to data from AP Votecast. Alright, and last but not least, our Have a Nice Day story. Michelle Kang, owner of the Washington Spirit soccer team, says that women's sports have been undervalued and overlooked for far too long. So she's committed $30 million to U.S. soccer to increase competitive opportunities for female players and to support female coaches and referees.

The contribution is the largest ever directed towards girls and women's programs. Michelle Kang's gift will transform soccer for women and girls in the United States, U.S. soccer president Cindy Parlo-Cohn said. ESPN has this story and there's a link in today's episode description. Alright everybody that is it for today's episode. As always if you'd like to support our work please go to www go to readtangle.com and sign up for a membership. You could also head over to tanglemedia.supercast.com and sign up for a premium podcast membership, which gets you ad-free daily podcasts, Friday editions, Sunday editions, interviews, bonus content, and so much more.

For those of you celebrating the holiday, I hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving. And for those of you who don't, I hope you get at least some good time with family and friends, maybe a little time off of work, some time to relax, and some good food while you're at it. Isaac will have a short podcast for you tomorrow, and I will return next week. For Isaac and the rest of the crew, this is John Law signing off. Have a fantastic week, y'all. Peace. Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul and edited in engineer, Dima Thomas. Our script is edited by Ari Weitzman, Will K. Back,

Bailey Saul and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was made by Magdalena Bikova, who is also our social media manager. The music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75. And if you're looking for more from Tangle, please go check out our website at reedtangle.com. That's reedtangle.com.