Tangle - We're back: Trump's Georgia indictment.

Episode Date: August 21, 2023

The Fulton County, Georgia, indictments. Last week, a grand jury in Fulton County, Georgia, indicted former President Donald Trump and 18 others over allegations of a sprawling conspiracy to overturn Joe Biden's election victory in Georgia.We were on vacation last week. Thanks for all the feedback and responses to our reposts, which, unsurprisingly, generated a lot of conversation. I'm going to try to get back to many of you this week.You can read today's podcast here, today’s Under the Radar story here, and today’s “Have a nice day” story here. You can also check out our latest YouTube video here.Today’s clickables: Quick hits (3:56), Today’s story (5:49), Left’s take (10:33), Right’s take (15:03), Isaac’s take (19:23), Listener question (25:37), Under the Radar (26:00), Numbers (26:52), Have a nice day (27:36)You can subscribe to Tangle by clicking here or drop something in our tip jar by clicking here.Our podcast is written by Isaac Saul and edited by Jon Lall. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75. Our newsletter is edited by Bailey Saul, Sean Brady, Ari Weitzman, and produced in conjunction with Tangle’s social media manager Magdalena Bokowa, who also created our logo.--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tanglenews/message Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at flucellvax.ca.

From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome back to the Tangle podcast, a place where you get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of my take. I'm your host, Isaac Saul, and I am fully recharged and energized after a week-long vacation last week. Thank you to everybody who wrote in and said, have a great trip, have a great vacation. All the people who tuned in and listened to some of our reposted interviews and episodes and the feedback, those of you that reached out, I'm going to try and reply to in the next week. As always, a quick reminder, if you were reading the newsletters last week and finding yourself

enjoying that content, please remember that we release stuff like that every Friday, every week. If you have a paid subscription, you can get that kind of content. And yes, we are close working on ways to bring that paid content right here to the podcast, figuring out how to get that stuff up behind a paywall and make it a little more accessible for folks who prefer to listen. So you can look forward to that as well. Of course, the news did not stop while we were away. Former President Donald Trump was indicted again, this time in Georgia, which we are going to cover in today's show. He also announced that he won't participate in the Republican presidential debate on Wednesday, instead opting

to compete for the primetime slot by sitting down for an interview with Tucker Carlson. Elsewhere, Hunter Biden's plea agreement fell apart and the Justice Department has now appointed a special counsel to his case, increasing the chances that it goes to trial. We'll be covering that story later this week, along with the wildfires in Maui, Hawaii, which have become some of the most devastating in United States history. We're also working on a YouTube video about an unprecedented ruling in Montana, where a federal judge sided with the youth plaintiffs who sued the state over climate change, arguing that their right to a clean and healthful environment as outlined in the state constitution was being violated. Some other big

news stories while we were away, police raided the office of a small Kansas newspaper and a journalist's home while alleging it was investigating the newsroom for identity theft. The raid sparked press freedom concerns. Russia's currency, the ruble, collapsed and then the central bank hiked key interest rates from 8.5% up to 12%. China announced it would stop releasing youth unemployment data after the jobless rate skyrocketed. North Korea claimed a U.S. soldier who crossed into its territory was fleeing mistreatment in the army while the U.S. continues to negotiate for his release. Former high-ranking FBI agent Charles McGonigal pleaded guilty to working for a sanctioned Russian oligarch after retiring. He now faces five years in prison.

A federal appeals court ruled that the abortion pill Mifepristone can remain on the market, but it also blocked changes that made it more accessible. The ruling will not go into effect until the Supreme Court reviews it. North Carolina's Republican-controlled legislature overrode Governor Roy Cooper, a Democrat's vetoes on laws that ban gender transition surgery for minors, bar transgender girls from female sports teams through college, and limit instruction of gender education in public school. Finally, the average 30-year fixed mortgage rate hit 7.09%, the highest level since 2022. Of course, there was more, but those were the big stories that happened while we were away. We are excited

to be back and jump right in. So to that end, we'll kick it off with some quick hits for today. First up, former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows undercut one of Donald Trump's key defenses in his classified documents case, telling prosecutors he did not recall Trump ordering or discussing declassifying documents before leaving office. Number two, Hunter Biden's lawyer told the Justice Department that President Biden would be a fact witness in any criminal trial involving his son. Number three, President Biden announced a trilateral agreement with Japan and South Korea to deepen their security and economic commitments. Number four, Tropical Storm Hillary made landfall in Southern California the first time a tropical

storm has hit the region in 84 years. Number five, Russia's Luna 25 lunar probe reportedly crashed while attempting to land on the moon's south pole over the weekend. Already facing a dizzying crossroads of nearly unprecedented legal and political challenges, Donald Trump's trail of criminal indictments has grown longer. The newest handed up late last evening by a Fulton County, Georgia grand jury. We begin with the Fulton County grand jury indicting former President Donald Trump and 18 of his allies in the Georgia 2020 election case. This is his fourth criminal indictment in less than five months. Trump faces 13 criminal counts related to his alleged efforts to overturn the presidential election results

in the state. The indictment alleges that rather than abide by Georgia's legal process for election challenges, the defendants engaged in a criminal racketeering enterprise to overturn Georgia's presidential election result. Last week, a grand jury in Fulton County, Georgia, indicted former President Donald Trump and 18 others over allegations of a sprawling conspiracy to overturn Joe Biden's election victory in Georgia. The 98-page indictment says Trump and his alleged co-conspirators knowingly joined a conspiracy to unlawfully change the outcome of the election and details 41 counts of criminal charges, including conspiracy to commit forgery, influencing witnesses, computer theft, impersonating a public officer, and filing false documents. Among those indicted were Trump,

his former and current lawyers Rudy Giuliani, Sidney Powell, and Jenna Ellis, and former Justice Department official Jeffrey Clark. John Eastman and Kenneth Chesborough, who argued in legal memos that then-Vice President Mike Pence could block the Electoral College votes from being certified, were also indicted. In the indictment, Fulton County District Attorney Fannie Willis cites text messages, emails, phone calls, and other evidence of the efforts the 19 defendants took to undermine the democratic process in Georgia and other battleground states, including Arizona, Pennsylvania, New Mexico, Nevada, and Michigan. Trump is charged with 13 felonies, including attempts to pressure Republican officials to

change the outcome of the race in Georgia. Willis, a Democrat, spent two years investigating the alleged crimes and ultimately used the state's anti-racketeering laws to lay out the alleged plot to overturn the will of Georgia voters. The Racketeer Influence and Corrupt Organization Acts, also known as RICO, is a federal law, and since Willis is using Georgia's RICO statute as a foundation in the indictment, a conviction would carry a mandatory minimum sentence of five years in prison. Among Trump's actions cited in the indictment are a speech he gave declaring victory the day after the election and a phone call he made to Georgia's Republican Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger in which he urged Raffensperger to find enough

votes to overturn the election. Meanwhile, Powell is among several individuals charged with breaching voting machines in Coffey County, Georgia. Three other defendants were charged as fake or alternate electors after signing a certificate falsely stating Trump had won Georgia. Trump and Eastman are charged for filing a lawsuit in federal court that was allegedly based on lies, including that thousands of dead people and minors had voted in the 2020 election. Trump criticized the indictment, saying the timing, two and a half years after the alleged actions, is designed to keep him from winning the upcoming presidential election, while Giuliani called the charges an affront to American democracy. Trump has maintained publicly that his actions

were protected on free speech grounds and repeatedly promised to reveal evidence supporting his belief that the election was stolen in Georgia, though he canceled a press conference scheduled for Monday to present that evidence and instead said his lawyers were going to put his arguments in court filings. Since the 2020 election, Trump's legal team has failed to win any cases in court proving widespread election fraud in Georgia or elsewhere, nor have they proven allegations that thousands of dead voters cast ballots, corrupted machines, switched votes from Trump to Biden, or that illegal ballot harvesting cost him the race. In Georgia, the results were recounted three times, and while there were small discrepancies in votes in some counties, the statewide results remained unchanged. Legal experts consider this indictment to be the most

threatening to Trump because of the mandatory minimum prison sentence and the fact it was filed at the state level, which means no president, including Trump if he were to win in 2024, can pardon him if he's convicted. Georgia's governor also does not have the authority to pardon Trump, a power granted to the state board of pardons and paroles only five years after someone convicted of a crime has completed their sentence. This is the fourth time former President Trump has been indicted since leaving office. As of Monday morning, his polling lead in the GOP primary continues to grow, with a fresh CBS News poll finding that 62% of likely GOP voters support Trump,

while just 16% support Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, who is in second place. Today, we're going to break down some reactions to this indictment from the left and the right, and then my take. Today's podcast is sponsored by Arnold Ventures a philanthropy dedicated to improving the lives of Americans through evidence-based policy solutions as part of their efforts they also support journalism throughout the United States including outlets like the Texas Tribune Pro Publica and the Institute for Non-Profit News among others to learn more about their work go to ArnoldVentures.org go to ArnoldVentures.org. That's ArnoldVentures.org.

Alright, first up, we'll start with what the left is saying. Many on the left emphasize why this case is so dangerous for Trump and the damning acts cited in the indictment. Some argue that this trial will inevitably convince anyone outside the MAGA base of Trump's criminality. Others suggest this indictment is the most dangerous for Trump given the severity of the law in Georgia and the charges at hand. In Slate, Richard Hassan broke down what makes this indictment distinct. If the recent federal indictment of Donald Trump on charges related to his attempt to subvert the 2020 presidential election was a streamlined surgical strike aimed at ensuring a clean case and a speedy trial of the former president before the 2024 election, Monday night's Georgia indictment is the equivalent of a blitz, he said.

With 19 defendants and 41 charges, the heart of the indictment is a sprawling state racketeering charge that places Trump at the center of a vast conspiracy to lie to state officials, pressure election officials to change vote totals, turn in phony slates of fate electors to Congress, influence witness testimony, and gain access to voting machinery and software, all in an effort to turn Trump from an electoral college loser into a second-term president. The indictment is full of legalese, but it essentially tells the story of Trump and his allies' attempt to subvert the outcome of the 2020 presidential election. It includes what you'd expect, such as the pressure on Vice President Mike Pence or the

infamous phone call with Georgia's Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to quote-unquote find 11,780 votes. But it also includes the stories of election workers Ruby Freeman and Shea Moss, who were eventually cleared of the false claims that they were professional ballot stuffers, while Trump's lawyer Rudy Giuliani has essentially conceded in a civil defamation suit that the claims against the pair were false and made with knowledge of the falsity. In the Daily Beast, Jay Michelson wrote about two examples of criminality from the indictment that will move the center. Consider the harassment of Georgia election workers Ruby Freeman and

Wondria Shea Moss by Trump's team. It is now proven that Freeman and Moss did nothing wrong, and yet they were terrorized for months, including by Trump's own associates. On December 10, 2020, Rudy Giuliani allegedly said that they were quite obviously, December 10, 2020, Rudy Giuliani allegedly said that they were quite obviously, surreptitiously passing around USB ports as if they're vials of heroin or cocaine at State Farm Arena. That was in Act 56 of the RICO charge. That statement is false, racist, and hateful. It's a lie weaponized into harassment. It is not where the movable middle is. Consider the January 7, 2021, yes, one day after January 6th, shenanigans at the Coffey County Board of Elections, which was caught on camera, in which Trump's agents, led by Sidney

Powell, allegedly stole data, including ballot images, voting equipment software, and personal voter information, and then copied Georgia's statewide voting system software, which is supposed to be kept secure. They then removed the ballots from the polling places, Acts 142 to 155 of the RICO charge. This is all obviously criminal conduct, not free speech, not politics as usual, but anarchic criminal thuggery. In CNN, Jennifer Rogers wrote about why this is a hugely damaging case for Trump. Pundits keep saying that this is the worst indictment yet, but Trump's fourth indictment may in fact pose the greatest legal risk to him, both in terms of the nature of the charges and the jurisdiction in which those charges have been

brought, Rogers said. In the distant past, RICO was used primarily in mafia cases or against drug organizations, but more recently, prosecutors have used it to charge street gangs, political organizations, and even more loosely aligned groups of people who organize themselves for the purpose of committing crimes. The indictment describes eight ways in which the enterprise intended to achieve its criminal goals, including making false statements to state legislators, making false statements to state officials, the fake elector scheme, the harassment and intimidation of election workers like Ruby Freeman and her daughter, Shea Moss, soliciting the Justice Department to make false statements, soliciting the vice president to unlawfully reject Electoral College votes, the unlawful breach of election equipment

in Coffey County, and obstruction of justice to cover up the conspiracy, Rogers said. None of the other charged cases include a mandatory minimum, upping the stakes for a Georgia conviction not only for Trump, but his co-conspirators. All right, that is it for the leftist saying, which brings us to what the right is saying. The right mostly criticizes the indictment and the use of the RICO statute, though many concede Trump's actions were wrong. Some argue that parts of the indictment criminalize benign acts of free speech and that Willis is overreached. Others suggest Trump will be in grave legal trouble

if he tries to defend his lies in court. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases.

What can you do this flu season? Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider FluCellVax Quad and help protect yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at FluCellVax.ca. The Wall Street Journal editorial board condemned Trump's actions but criticized the use of a RICO statute. The big news is the DA's use of the state's Racketeer Influence and Corrupt Organizations Act, or RICO. It treats Mr. Trump's attempt to reverse the 2020 election as if it were a mafia

operation rather than bumblers who controlled no election machinery in Georgia or anywhere else. rather than bumblers who controlled no election machinery in Georgia or anywhere else. The alleged behavior was rotten, but inflating it into a RICO conspiracy makes the case less credible, not more, the board said. Unlike the federal indictment from special counsel Jack Smith, the Georgia filing doesn't address Mr. Trump's free speech under the First Amendment. Every half-baked tweet from Mr. Trump is presented as another RICO act. Meanwhile, Trump is also charged with soliciting a public officer to violate his oath based on his infamous call urging Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to find enough votes to overturn the Georgia result. The worst part of the call was Mr. Trump's warning that Mr. Raffensperger

was taking a big risk because failing to report fraud, that's a criminal offense. But can Ms. Wills prove that Mr. Trump's conduct was criminal, not delusional, the board asked? As with the Smith indictment, Mr. Trump also has a reasonable claim of immunity for actions taken related to his duties as president, including trying to uncover voter fraud. The Washington Examiner editorial board called the indictment a grave threat to democracy. Take the indictment of David Schaefer, who at the time of the alleged crime was head of the Georgia Republican Party. Trump contested the results of the 2020 Georgia presidential election in court, and by the day the Electoral College was due to meet to approve slates of electors,

litigation was ongoing, the board said. Not wanting his party's candidate to be without electors in the event Trump won his lawsuits, Schaefer did what the Democratic Party of Hawaii did in 1960 when its presidential results were being litigated. He held a meeting of Trump supporters at the state capitol and elected an alternative slate of electors. Schaefer told the press, quote, had we not met today to cast our votes, the president's pending election contest would have been effectively mooted. Our actions today preserves his rights under Georgia law. Schaefer did nothing but openly exercise his First Amendment rights, and for that he is being prosecuted as a member of a criminal organization, they said. The same is true of Trump chief of staff Mark Meadows, whose crimes include texting one politician for the phone number of another and attending various meetings with Trump

supporters in the White House. Real crimes may have been committed and are in this indictment, but they are surely not those cited above. In the New York Times, David French said this indictment is one fundamentally about lies. Trump's claims aren't just false, they're transparently, incandescently stupid, French said. This was not a sophisticated effort to overturn the election. It was a shotgun blast of obvious falsehoods, French wrote. While Willis still has to prove intent, the statute prohibits knowingly and willfully falsifying material facts. The evidentiary challenge is simpler than in Smith's federal case against Trump. To meet the requirements of federal law, Smith's charges must connect any given Trump lie

to a larger criminal scheme. Willis, by contrast, merely has to prove that Trump willfully lied about important facts to a government official about a matter in that official's jurisdiction. That's a vastly simpler case to make, French said. If Trump's comments on truth social are any indication, he may well defend the case by arguing that the Georgia election was in fact stolen. That's a dangerous game. The claims are so easily, provably false that the better course would probably be to argue that Trump was simply asking Raffensperger about the allegations, not asserting them as fact. But if Trump continues to assert his false claims as fact, Willis will have an ideal opportunity to argue that Trump lied then and is lying now, that he's insulting the jury's intelligence just as he insulted the

nation's intelligence when he made his claims in the first place. All right, that is it for the left and the right are saying, which brings us to my take. So first, let me start by knocking away some of the arguments in defense of Trump I find very obviously silly. The idea that Trump is allowed to do something illegal if he believes it is legal is entirely nonsensical, just as the idea that he can say whatever he wants because free speech only makes sense if you barely think about it. Equally silly is any defense of someone like Sidney Powell and the theft of voting data from Coffey County. Ravi Gupta, the host of the Lost Debate podcast,

made this simple analogy in an episode where we discuss some of Trump's legal troubles. If you think someone stole your computer, it isn't legal to then break into their apartment to try and steal it back. It's especially bad if you end up being wrong about the person stealing your computer. More reasonably, Trump is probably allowed to tell his followers he believes the election was stolen, but that wouldn't excuse using his speech to instruct election officials to find a way to the outcome he wants, one that is different from the outcome reached by counting the actual ballots cast. His speech veers into criminality. This is true in the same way you can probably confide with a friend that you are hoping a personal enemy of yours will disappear, but you veer into criminality when you call a hitman and vaguely imply that you

wish that person would disappear. Speech can be criminal. Which brings us to Trump's claims the election was stolen, the fundamental element of this case. Many Tangle readers know of my work and discovered this podcast because I was tracking and investigating election fraud claims in real time after the 2020 election. I've covered everything from the initial conspiracies about Dominion voting systems, to some of the claims Democrats were making before the election was decided, to more recent allegations like the 2000 Mules documentary, which I broke down in an edition of Tangle. I even tried to round up some of my coverage of every major election was stolen allegation out there in a piece for Skeptic Magazine. My position on election fraud allegations is always one of open-mindedness. If you are making a legitimate

claim, I'll look into it, as long as there is evidence to be examined. If there is widespread election fraud, I want to know, as I firmly believe there are ways to improve the security of our elections. Here is the upshot from nearly three years of work on that topic. Like nearly every major election, there were individual and disconnected acts of voter fraud in the 2020 election by both Democrats and Republicans. But so far, no evidence has been presented in any battleground state of election fraud that was anywhere close to being enough to overturn the race or change any outcomes. At the same time, several major theories have been totally disproven. Dominion machines did not flip votes, thousands of dead people did not cast ballots in any race, a network of illegal ballot harvesting operatives did not win swing

states for Joe Biden, and there was not a wave of illegal voters casting ballots. And when their claims were taken to court, Trump allies like Jenna Ellis, Sidney Powell, and Rudy Giuliani have been forced to admit that they lied about the election being stolen. Yes, some actions from powerful people like the censoring of the Hunter Biden laptop story or Mark Zuckerberg dumping money into local elections may have influenced the election. But nearly three years later, the core claims made by Trump and his team in the months after the election have never been proven. And given all that, it makes it all but impossible to believe any of Trump's claims and hard to believe that Trump believes them himself.

Last week, Trump was once again promising that he was going to present a detailed report that will exonerate him with irrefutable evidence of election fraud in Georgia. He then canceled the press conference where he was planning to present that report and said he was going to file his defense in court instead. Promises of irrefutable evidence have been made for years. I've lost count now how many times, often accompanied by a fundraising request, and have never actually come, so I sincerely doubt we'll get it here. Remember, Trump even went so far as to paying his secret firm to find fraud and then didn't release the firm's report for reasons that should be obvious. Still, if Trump's team does file that irrefutable evidence in court, I'll eagerly

investigate it. After all, through one lens, this is the day in court his team has long claimed they wanted. If they can prove the election in Georgia was actually stolen, this is their last chance to do it. Doing so wouldn't just exonerate Trump, it would motivate his base heading into 2024. This case, as many legal experts have said, is the most dangerous for Trump. Not because it is the most airtight, the classified documents case appears to be the most incontrovertible, but because it's the most serious charge and because Trump can't theoretically pardon himself out of it. Making the case definitively that the election was stolen and that Trump and his associates named in the indictment acted criminally to change the outcome will be extremely difficult for Willis. Logistically, I have no idea how she plans to get all these people in a courtroom before the 2024 election. Additionally, RICO

cases are notoriously complicated and I'm not entirely sure how the RICO statutes will hold up in this novel application. Nobody seems to know what is going to come next and I certainly won't pretend to. Some elements of this indictment, like the specific tweets cited, do not seem criminal to me. Other elements, like the accessing of voter machines or the pressure and harassment of election officials, do seem criminal. We'll have to see how Willis makes her prosecution and Trump and his team make their defense. Trump very well may beat this case in court, or he could plead out before trial or something else. This I do know, though. Trump's presidency had a lot of good and bad. He kept promises and broke them. He improved the country and heard it, and he surprised

me both at how divisive and how bipartisan he could be, depending on the issue and the day of the week. However, nothing to me is as big of a blemish on his record as his actions after losing the 2020 election. In a sea of great good, mediocre, and bad from his time in office, this was very bad, the absolute worst of what he did. And in that regard, he has only himself to blame for this predicament. And for the bind he's now put Republican voters into heading into the 2024 election. All right, that is it for my take, which brings us to your questions answered, a section we are going to skip today because this podcast is already pretty long. If you want to ask a question, get it answered in the podcast. Don't forget, you can write to me anytime,

isaac at readtangle.com. It goes straight to my inbox. All right, next up is our under the radar section. Homelessness is increasing at a record pace, according to a new report from the Wall Street Journal. Over 577,000 Americans are homeless today, an 11% increase from last year. This is the largest increase in homelessness year over year since the government began tracking it in 2007. The next highest increase was just 2.7% in 2019. The Wall Street Journal pointed to rising housing costs, unaffordable rental units, and the opioid crisis as the driving factors behind the increase. The count was compiled by contacting more than 300 entities that count homeless people in cities and states across the

country, and a final estimate is expected later this year from the Department of Housing and Urban Development. You can read the story with a link in today's newsletter, but heads up that it is behind a paywall. All right, next up is our numbers section. The number of unnamed co-conspirators in the Georgia indictment is 30. The percentage of Republicans who do not believe Biden legitimately won the 2020 election is 63%, according to a March CNN poll. Of that 63%, the percentage who believe there is solid evidence the election was stolen is 52%. Of that 63%, the percentage who say they are going on suspicion only is 48%. In January of 2021, the percentage of Republicans who did not believe Biden legitimately won the election was 71 percent. And of that 71 percent, the percentage who believed there was solid evidence of voter fraud was 75 percent. All right. And last but not least, our have a nice day

section. Nat Reed boarded the Amtrak 681 downaster train at North Station Friday morning, a small suitcase in tow. This wasn't just any trip for the 84-year-old Reed. It marked the completion of the train enthusiast's decades-long quest to travel all 21,400 miles of the entire Amtrak railroad. Once Reed arrived in Brunswick, the train staff made an announcement over the speaker to let all the passengers know that Reed's trip completed his journey of traveling across the entirety of Amtrak's railroad. I feel fulfilled. This has been over 80 years. It's taken me, and to be in Brunswick after all this, it's an elated feeling, Reid said from Maine on Friday. It was a day I will remember forever. The Boston Globe has the remarkable story, and there's a link to it in today's episode description. dot com slash membership. And also a heads up, we have Mick West interview, the UFO skeptic. It's

up on our YouTube channel now. We've got some new content up there we put up over the break. Go check it out. Tangle News on YouTube. We'll see you tomorrow. Have a good one. Peace. Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul, and edited by John Law. Our script is edited by Ari Weitzman, Bailey Saul, and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was designed by Magdalena Bukova, who's also our social media manager. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet75. For more on Tangle, please go to readtangle.com and check out our website. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu,

a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu season?

Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider FluCellVax Quad and help protect yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages 6 months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at flucellvax.ca.