Tangle - Who attacked the Nord Stream pipeline?

Episode Date: September 29, 2022

Unpacking the global whodunnit.You can read today's podcast here, today’s “Under the Radar” story here, and today’s “Have a nice day” story here.Today’s clickables: Quick hits (1:28), Today’s story (2:28), Russia?(7:31), Not Russia (10:43), US? (13:44), Not US (15:50), Isaac's take (17:21), Under the Radar (26:19), Numbers (27:16), Have a nice day (28:08)You can subscribe to Tangle by clicking here or drop something in our tip jar by clicking here.Our podcast is written by Isaac Saul and produced by Trevor Eichhorn. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75.Our newsletter is edited by Bailey Saul, Sean Brady, Ari Weitzman, and produced in conjunction with Tangle’s social media manager Magdalena Bokowa, who also created our logo.--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tanglenews/message Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at flucellvax.ca.

From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tangle podcast, the place where you get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking without all that hysterical nonsense you find everywhere else. I'm your host, Isaac Saul, and on today's episode, man, we have a good one. This is good. This was a fun one to put together. We have a global whodunit. The Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines have been damaged, sabotaged, and the entire world is pointing their fingers at each other right now. Russia is blaming the US. The US is blaming Russia. Some people are blaming China. Some

people are wondering if Ukraine did it. There's this crazy whodunit. It's a global mystery. And I don't know. I'll spoil it. I don't know. I tell you what I think, but I truly don't know. or I don't know. I tell you what I kind of think, but I truly don't know. And this is one of the crazier, wilder, more interesting Tangle podcasts we've done in a while because there's just so many theories out there. And I went down the rabbit hole the last few days. So we're going to have a little bit of fun today. Before we jump in, though, as always, we'll start off with some quick hits. First up, Hurricane Ian made landfall in Florida yesterday as a Category 4 storm. Severe storm surges and high winds knocked out power for 2.5 million people and caused major flooding in the Naples and Fort Myers region. Number two, mortgage rates rose to 6.7%, their highest level since 2007, as the U.S. housing market continues to cool. Number three,

President Biden hosted a panel on hunger and health yesterday and laid out a plan to end hunger in the U.S. by 2030. Number four, Russia announced plans to annex four regions in eastern Ukraine after holding referendums that were widely considered illegal and fixed. Images online showed election officials going door-to-door with armed soldiers to gather votes. 5. Congress appears poised to pass a short-term spending bill and avoid a Friday government shutdown. Meanwhile, Sweden's coast guard has discovered a fourth gas leak on the damaged Nord Stream pipeline that carried gas from Russia to Europe through the Baltic Sea. As we speak, Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2 are pouring millions of cubic meters of natural gas into the Baltic Sea.

It's possible to say when flows can resume through the pipeline. NATO this morning calling those mysterious leaks in the Nord Stream pipelines sabotage. The leaks are under investigation. Their initial reports indicating that this may be the result of an attack. So this is not some casual terrorist act. It has to be a government. The only government that could possibly gain from this in a rather peculiar way is Russia. None of the European governments would want to do it. And Russia is certainly the most likely suspect. And yet, and here's the strange part, if you were Vladimir Putin,

you would have to be a suicidal moron to blow up your own energy pipelines. That's the one thing you would never do. Two gas pipelines that run from Russia to Europe are leaking now after an unusual and unexplained underwater explosion. Nord Stream 1 and 2, which run from Russia to Germany underneath the Baltic Sea, appear to have been damaged at some point on Monday when officials detected significant drops in their pressure. The pressure drops was tied to three leaks, which Swedish seismologists said came from underwater explosions. A fourth leak was detected on Thursday morning. The Danish military then released a photo from above the gas leak, which we have a picture

of in today's newsletter. The pipelines are already a significant source of international tension. Germany halted the Nord Stream 2 pipeline earlier this year over Russia's aggression in Ukraine, and then Russia shut off all Nord Stream pipeline flows earlier this month, a move perceived as retaliation for the European Union's continued support of Ukraine in the war. Russia claimed there were technical issues preventing the delivery of gas, an excuse that has been viewed with much skepticism in the West. Seismologists at the Swedish National Seismic Network said they registered two tremors in the areas of the pipeline that they believed to be explosions. Neither, they said, had the hallmarks of an earthquake, though one registered a 1.8 magnitude on the Richter scale,

while the second registered at 2.3. These are deliberate actions, not an accident, Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen said on Tuesday. The situation is as serious as it gets. The pipelines are about 750 miles long and lay on the floor of the ocean at depths of about 262 to 320 feet. A submersive vehicle would be required to reach them, many experts say, and there have been no reports of submarines or underwater vehicles detected at the times of the explosions.

Germany's Nord Stream AG, which operates the pipeline, is attempting to restore them while investigating the cause. Since the pipelines were already off, the leaks won't impact gas supply, but environmentalists say they could pose a climate issue as the pipes contain natural gas and will leak methane, a potent greenhouse gas. There are a number of uncertainties, but if these pipelines fail, the impact to the climate will be disastrous and could be even unprecedented, said atmospheric chemist David McCabe, who is a senior scientist at the non-profit Clean Air Task Force. There is now widespread speculation about who damaged the pipelines and why. Russia, the United States, Ukraine, Poland, and China have all been accused. NATO called it

sabotage and promised a united and determined response to any attack on an allied member's infrastructure. The result is a global whodunit, with little hard evidence pointing in any direction. Because of the unusual nature of this story, we're going to take a break from our normal left-right format and share some ideas from across the US and the world, and then my take. We're also skipping today's reader question to give this story some more space because it is both fascinating and complicated. All right, first up, we'll start with some theories that it was Russia. In the Washington Post, Max Boot said Russia was the most likely culprit.

The Kremlin predictably denied any responsibility and blamed the U.S. government as it has previously done for everything from the spread of AIDS during the 1980s to the shooting down of a Malaysian airliner over Ukraine in 2014 by a Russian missile battery boot, wrote. It is true that the Biden administration, just like its predecessors, opposed the Nord Stream pipelines because they would increase European dependence on Russia. But it is bizarre to think that the United States would undertake an act of sabotage that could hurt our closest allies in Europe and add to inflationary pressure at home. President Biden has done a superb job of marshalling European countries to oppose

Russian aggression. He would never risk the blowback from an attack on European energy infrastructure. The assumption among European officials is that Russia is responsible, and that makes sense. No other nation would have both the motive and the means for an attack, Boot wrote. The means are easy. Moscow could have sent an undersea drone, as reported by the Times of London, or a submarine with the naval Spetsnaz special forces, frogmen to plant the charges. The motive is more speculative because it would seem counterproductive for Russia to sabotage its own pipeline. But Russia has a long history of using gas interruptions as a geopolitical tool. Indeed, the Kremlin had already announced in early September that the Nord Stream 1 pipeline

would be closed indefinitely for repairs, in a move that was widely interpreted as an attempt to ratchet up the pressure on Europe to stop supporting Ukraine. Mark Gagliotti, a British expert on Russian criminal and security affairs, argued that it was a warning shot from Russia. Both of these lines linking Russia to Germany have sprung devastating leaks. The cause, according to seismological readings, was a series of explosions off the Danish island of Bornholm, too directed and powerful enough to breach four centimeters of steel and a thick concrete mantle, and too synchronized to be any kind of an accident,

he said. There are those in Russia who, predictably enough, are blaming the Ukrainians. Given that the Russians took their last working submarine in 2014, though, this is implausible, even by their standards. While some are instead seeing an American plot behind the leaks, the most credible answer for now is that the Russians done it. But why sabotage their own pipelines, especially when neither was at the time pumping energy to Europe? The answer is likely to be as a warning, he wrote. If you want to signal that, if push to escalation you might regard foreign pipelines and other undersea assets as fair game, and the underwater cables that are the arteries of the global internet are the obvious concern here, then a safer option is to hit your own.

Ursula von der Leyen has taken time out from explicitly threatening the Italians to implicitly threatening the Russians, warning that any deliberate disruption of European energy infrastructure would be met by the strongest possible response. But it is harder to seriously respond when the infrastructure isn't yours, isn't in use, and isn't likely to be used in the future. Alright, that is it for some ideas that it was Russia. Here are some takes from people saying that it was not Russia.

In her newsletter, Caitlin Johnstone said, about Moscow sending some kind of message to the world and Putin being insane or entertain the absurd notion that Russia could only stop Europe from obtaining Russian natural gas by destroying Russian pipelines, Johnston wrote. This says a lot about whose arguments are stronger. The West has blamed Russia for bad presidents, for Western racism, for Western political divisions, for inflation, for pretty much every bad thing Western power structures are responsible for, but blaming Russia for attacks on Russian pipelines is probably going to take the cake. Online discourse is crawling with people who really, truly, sincerely believe that if someone doesn't support their government's foreign policy with Russia and believe 100% of what their government says about it, it means they love Vladimir Putin and

support everything he does, she said. You either believe Putin invaded Ukraine solely because he is evil and hates freedom and support your government's actions against Russia no matter how much it costs or how much it risks, or you love the Kremlin and think Putin is a saint. Those are the only two possibilities. If you can propagandize someone into believing their government is pure and virtuous, they will necessarily see any opposition to that government as evil and malicious. In National Review, Michael Brendan Daugherty wrote about the reasons Russia wouldn't do this. Russia's coercive diplomacy strategy was built upon these pipelines functioning, allowing Putin to turn off the taps and then turn them back on again when he gets what he wants, he said. The EU, Germany in particular, was already showing signs of being tired of the

energy war. German Chancellor Olaf Scholz continuously declines to send weapons his government has already promised to Ukraine. Arguably, EU's wartime sanctions on Russia were already weakening. The European Union has already lifted its restrictions on Russian fertilizer coming into the EU, and Russia was asking them to lift restrictions on Russian fertilizer being shipped to developing nations. The first glance turns out to be sensible still. Russia is in the midst of an energy war with Europe. Why would it blow up its weapon in the months before it would have its greatest effect? When you want to demonstrate your capabilities, you don't deliberately bomb and sabotage yourself. Who benefits? If it weakens

Russia, Ukraine benefits. The former Polish foreign minister and current MEP initially went to Twitter to thank the United States for blowing it up. He also reticulated a video of President Joe Biden from earlier this year, apparently promising that the U.S. could take out the pipelines in the event of an invasion of Ukraine. Sikorsky's most endearing trait is his ability to troll and provoke. Was he trolling? Okay, so that is it for the perspective that it probably wasn't Russia, and this is the perspective that it might wasn't Russia, and this is the perspective that it might have been the United States. On Fox News, Tucker Carlson said Putin would have to be a suicidal moron to do this, but we know other countries would consider it. And we know they have considered it because at least one of them has said so in public, Carlson said.

In early February, less than three weeks before the war in Ukraine began, Joe Biden suggested on camera that he might take out these pipelines. President Biden said, if Russia invades, that means tanks or troops crossing the border of Ukraine again. Then there will be, there will no longer be a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it. A reporter asked, but how will you? How will you do that exactly, since the project and the control of the project is within Germany's control? Biden said, we will, I promise you, we'll be able to do it. Joe Biden wasn't the only person to suggest it. Toria Nuland at the State Department said pretty much the very same thing. Nuland said, with regard to Nord Stream 2, we continue to have very strong and clear conversations with our German allies, and I want to be clear with you today. If Russia invades Ukraine,

one way or another, Nord Stream 2 will not move forward. Radek Sikorski is a Polish politician who is a chairman of the EU-USA delegation in the European Parliament. He's connected. He's also the husband of regime stenographer Anne Applebaum of The Atlantic Magazine, Carlson said. Sikorsky is so close to Joe Biden that he's got a picture of the two of them together in his Twitter profile. So when the pipeline blew up, Sikorsky responded immediately and here's what he wrote. Thank you, USA. We should tell you that maybe not coincidentally, today a brand new pipeline was unveiled, a pipeline that carries non-Russian natural gas in roughly the same areas, Nord Stream 1 and 2. This is called the Baltic Pipe. It was inaugurated in Poland. It will carry natural gas from Norway through Denmark to Poland and other countries

nearby. And it's likely to do very well, since now it has less competition. All right, so that's a perspective on it being the u.s and obviously a very popular one uh here's an idea from jim garrity in the national review that it wasn't the united states it was the season of chaos and all through the house not one person was stressing holla differently this year with doordash. Don't want to holla do the most? Holla don't. More festive, less frantic. Get deals for every occasion with DoorDash.

The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu season? Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider FluCellVax Quad and help protect yourself from

the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at FluCellVax.ca. protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at flucellvax.ca. Garrity said, let's get a few things straight. It would be odd, to say the least, for the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency to warn a number of European nations, including Germany, in June that the two Nord Stream gas pipelines, which carry natural gas from Russia, could be targeted in forthcoming attacks if the U.S. was secretly planning to attack the pipelines in late September, he said. For what it's worth, it sounds like European governments strongly suspect that Moscow sabotaged the lines.

Among the many reasons it is unlikely that President Biden would order covert action to attack the infrastructure running to a NATO ally, leaking natural gas is bad for the environment. Which government seems more likely to take an action and not care about the impact on climate change, the Biden administration or the Russian government run by Vladimir Putin, he asked. Our Mark Wright offers an astute analysis, examining the possibility that this was a Russian shot across Europe's bow. Destroying Russian-owned infrastructure and international waters wouldn't be an attack on NATO countries or NATO assets with all the fallout that might entail, but could still be seen as a capability demonstration and a threat to Western energy infrastructure,

such as to major pipeline systems originating in Norway that provide much of the UK and Western Europe's remaining gas supplies. and Western Europe's remaining gas supplies. down the rabbit hole on this one. I mean, when I say I'm down the rabbit hole, I mean, I am down the rabbit hole. When you find yourself up late at night reading the comments section of a blog called Moon of Alabama, measuring the distance between Denmark and a Polish Navy base and researching the radar capabilities of an MH-60S helicopter, you've probably had enough. And I had to tap out at some point and just concede that maybe I wasn't going to crack this one. You know, look, since the damage is mostly already done and the responsibility of sealing the pipeline and restoring it is firmly in the hands of others, I tried to allow myself a little bit of levity while researching this piece and I've got to say, it is truly one of the most interesting mysteries I've tried to unpack in a long time. The case that it was the United States is obviously the most salacious and in some ways the most alluring. Perhaps most obvious is

that we have the ability. We have the most advanced military in the world with the equipment, espionage capabilities, and firepower to do this and to get away with it, as well as the hubris. I mean, we are pretty arrogant when it comes to military, you know, incursions. We have a long and sordid history of sticking our nose in the middle of global conflicts, of undermining our allies' interests, and of committing brazen acts of sabotage with just enough plausible deniability to get away with it. To dismiss this as improbable or even unlikely is to be willfully blind and ignore our own history. I also think the idea presented by Garrity towards the end there that we might not take such an action

because of climate change is laughable. When has climate change ever gotten in the way of the United States' military interests and who really thinks that some methane emissions would stop us if we wanted to go this far? More difficult to parse is the balance of motives. Yes, the United States may want to fully sever the Europe-Russia energy ties. Biden has made it clear he opposes the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, and many other administration officials have done the same. But putting a few holes in Nord Stream doesn't put it offline for long or for good, and it doesn't necessarily sink that relationship. And consider the alternative outcomes. What if, say, Germany discovered it was us? The blowback would be catastrophic,

far worse than, say, the revelations that we were spying on Chancellor Angela Merkel. It would be the kind of thing that fractures, if not entirely cleaves, the NATO alliance and the newfound solidarity Biden has spent so much time coordinating against Russia since the war began. More to the point, what if the sabotage works? Let's play that out. Long term, it means the pipelines are less likely to come back online at all, which means the energy crisis in Germany gets even worse, which turns more German citizens against their leaders, which puts more pressure on those leaders to get the pipelines back online, which makes it more likely that Germany and the rest of Europe turn back to Russia for energy, which is bad for the

current US administration who desperately wants to keep Europe allied with Ukraine and against Russia. It's an extremely risky play. And yet, the Russia theory has similar holes in it too. As others have pointed out, the pipelines are leverage for Russia. In the long term, Russia wants the European Union's solidarity against its invasion of Ukraine to break. The most obvious route to getting there, again, is to make gas extremely expensive in Europe so the citizens turn on their leaders and demand a return to the pre-war status quo, which means the EU turning back to Russia for energy, which provides much-needed revenue for Russia and normalizes relations in an abnormal

time. If Nord Stream 1 and 2 aren't functioning and can't be turned on, that possibility is kaput. If fuel had been flowing, maybe sabotaging them makes a little more sense. But since they weren't even moving the gas, it really just doesn't make a lot of sense. At the same time, I think there are some angles missing from the commentary above. For starters, it's not quite right to call these Russia's pipelines. Gazprom, a Russian conglomerate, does own 51% of the pipelines, yes, that's true, but the other 49% is owned by European shareholders. This isn't the equivalent of Russia shooting itself in the foot for no good reason. It's more akin to Russia burning down a house in Florida at timeshares with its adversaries, which, you know, is not exactly out of character these days. I pinged my good friend and the editor

in chief of the Iraq oil report, Ben Van Hoovland, for his thoughts. I think it's pretty obviously Russia, he told me. What about the arguments it would diminish Russia's leverage? Van Hoovland speculated that based on his knowledge of how other pipeline and gas agreements typically work, without knowing the intricacies of the Nord Stream deal, it could certainly make sense. Russia has commercial contracts to deliver gas, he said. If they break those contracts, there are probably clauses that enable buyers to take legal action via international arbitration. So, if Russia is going to cut off supplies to Europe, they need some reason that will not be a breach of contract, such as, my pipelines were mysteriously bombed. Another reason is that it sends a message, we can mess with energy infrastructure,

raises perception of risk to other non-Russian gas pipelines, functions as a deterrent against larger-scale Western support for Ukraine. Also, as a bonus, if the market thinks other pipelines might blow up, gas prices go up, which is good for Russia's balance sheet and raises economic costs for Europe and the West. Emma Ashford, the author of Oil, the State, and War, had a similar thought line. She outlined four reasons Russia might make this move in a thread on Twitter. One, Putin was signaling that he can damage European energy infrastructure at will and might do so in the future. Fits with the last few days of escalation, but not with Russia's caution about attacks

outside Ukraine so far. 2. Putin was tying his own hands and that of any future Russian leader by making it harder to back down from the war in Ukraine, even in the face of Western concessions. This matches pretty well with Russia's choice to hold annexation referenda in Ukraine. 3. Putin was creating force majeure, a legal basis to avoid lawsuits against Gazprom for failure to supply gas to Europe. Convenient, certainly. 4. It was Russia, but not Putin, i.e. some hawks carried this out to prevent Putin himself from backing down. Pretty improbable, she said. There are other possibilities, too. One is Ukraine, who has the clearest motive. Nord Stream undermines their interests and they need Europe to stay in their corner through the

winter. If Europe believes Russia sabotaged Nord Stream, that helps. The problem is that nobody believes Ukraine has the ability to pull this off without getting caught, and Ukraine is currently fighting for its life on its own turf. The idea that it had time, resources, or the ability to pull this off and not be detected, along with the idea it would risk destroying its relationship with Europe, seems borderline absurd to me. Poland or any of the other Baltic states are also fascinating prospects. I personally have a lesser understanding of the dynamics of these states and their interests than those at play in the US or Russia or Ukraine, but it's obvious that a larger reliance on gas flowing through pipelines in their countries benefits them economically.

But again, it's not entirely clear to me how any of them think they could get away with this without the US or European intelligence agencies finding out. The blowback for doing something like this would be catastrophic, and every potentially involved nation knows that. The upside for rolling the dice may be obvious, but I don't know that it outweighs the risks. Of course, there's also China, but now it just feels like we're naming big bad global powers at random. Why would China step in? They've kept their nose out of it and appear hesitant, if not outright opposed, to backing Russia in the war. As far as I can tell, the best case for China is the war ending quickly with as little additional disruption to the global economy as possible. Never mind the fact they too would have to pull it off without being detected and would have to

come a long way from home inside NATO patrolled waters to get it done. It just seems really unlikely. All this leaves me with the sense it was Russia or the US. Of course, this is the part where my nationalism and my US propaganda addled brain might be snapping into play. Still, conceding that, if I had to bet on one of Biden or Putin making an extremely risky burn the house down type move that could cause huge political blowback and disrupt the western order, I'm not betting on Biden. But maybe that's exactly the logic the president is betting on to pull something like this off. Or maybe it's just the obvious answer that the

world leader who has been making highly destructive, high-risk moves that might undermine his own long-term interests for the last six months is just continuing to do exactly that. I really don't know. What I do know is we can expect some news articles in the coming weeks citing unnamed intelligence sources here in the U.S. pinning this on Russia, and that Russia itself will continue to point the finger back at us. As that happens, I'd keep your eyes on any independent and fair-minded journalists you can find, and hope for some concrete evidence to settle the mystery for good. for good. All right, that is it for my take on the global whodunit, which brings us to today's under the radar section. The Food and Drug Administration announced new rules on Wednesday about what labels can go on the front of food packages in order to indicate they are healthy.

The proposal means manufacturers can only label their products healthy if they contain a meaningful amount of food from one of the food groups or subgroups recommended by dietary guidelines. They must also have limits on saturated fat, sodium, and added sugars. Changing American diets could have a massive impact. Six in ten U.S. adults have chronic lifestyle-related diseases, typically from obesity and poor diets, according to the CDC. is typically from obesity and poor diets, according to the CDC. However, the government's record on determining what is and isn't healthy is spotty and controversial, and opposition to the guidelines is expected to be fierce. The Washington Post has the story, and there is a link to it in today's episode description. All right, that is it for our Under the Radar story, which brings us to our numbers section.

$4.1 trillion is the annual health care cost of those lifestyle-related diseases mentioned in the Under the Radar section. The number of 24-ton concrete-coated steel pipes that comprise the Nord Stream pipelines is 100,000. The amount of gas that has now left the Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines since the leaks began is over 50% of what was inside. The amount of natural gas in cubic meters that was being contained in the pipelines was 778 million. The percentage of Denmark's annual CO2 emissions that those 778 million cubic tons of natural gas represent is 32%. The price of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline project was $11 billion.

All right, that is it for our numbers section. Next up is our have a nice day story. A Ukrainian teenager has been named Global Student of the Year and won $100,000 for his work developing a mine-detecting drone. Igor Klemenko had began working on this project eight years ago, but the 17-year-old had to relocate from Kiev to the countryside when the war began. His quadcopter mines detector can find anti-personnel and anti-vehicle landmines and provides coordinates of their locations to within two centimeters. Since it

is a flying drone, it can spot the mines without setting them off and has already been patented in Ukraine. He submitted his project along with 7,000 other students in Chegg.org's Global Student Prize, which picks one exceptional student each year. Evening Standard has the story, and there's a link to it in today's episode description. standard has the story and there's a link to it in today's episode description all right everybody that is it for today's podcast i really i really enjoyed saying global whodunit all day it's super fun um this was a good one i hope you enjoyed it we will maybe be back here tomorrow with some announcements in podcast form we are definitely going to be making some big

announcements tomorrow in the newsletter. So keep your eyes out for that. If we can, we're going to get a podcast up podcast version of the newsletter up. So I hope to have that for you too. Either way at the very latest, you'll hear a little bit about it on Monday. And yeah, if not, have a great weekend. Talk to you soon. Peace. Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul, and edited and produced by Trevor Eichhorn. Our script is edited by Ari Weitzman, Sean Brady, and Bailey Saul. Shout out to our interns, Audrey Moorhead and Watkins Kelly, and our social media manager, Magdalena Bokova, who designed our logo.

Music for the podcast was produced by Diet75. For more from Tangle, subscribe to our newsletter or check out our website at www.readtangle.com. We'll be right back. Holla differently this year with DoorDash. Don't want to holla do the most? Holla don't. More festive, less frantic. Get deals for every occasion with DoorDash. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight.

Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu season? Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider FluCellVax Quad and help protect yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province.

Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at FluCellVax.ca.