Taylor Lorenz’s Power User - The Epstein Saga Is Sending the Internet Into Chaos w/ Brace Belden

Episode Date: November 19, 2025

SUPPORT ME ON PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/c/taylorlorenz Buy a subscription to my Tech and Online Culture newsletter, User Magazine to support my work!!!! 🙏 https://www.usermag.co      Jeffrey Epstein is back in the news after a massive new cache of emails and text messages was released last week. Now, Congress is set to send to Trump legislation to compel the Justice Department to release even more records. The whole saga has become a messy political fight that’s causing chaos in the MAGA movement and warping the right wing internet. No one knows the Epstein saga more than my friend Brace Belden, co-host of the Trueanon podcast and one of the internet's foremost experts on Epstein and MAGA influencers. He joins me to break down what this latest Epstein cache reveals, the real tea on Donald Trump and Bill Clinton's relationship, and how off this Epstein stuff might impact Trump and the influencers in his movement going forward.Follow me:https://www.instagram.com/taylorlorenz        https://www.instagram.com/taylorlorenz3.0       https://www.tiktok.com/@taylorlorenz

I've been using true social like every day for a while. That is a site that will drive you mad if you look at one. The Jeffrey Epstein saga is back in the news again after a large new cache of tens of thousands of Epstein's emails and text messages was recently released. The whole drama of what files should be released, when and how has become this messy political fight that's causing chaos in the MAGA movement and warping the right-wing internet. Trump, who previously said he didn't want the files released, has now started calling for them to be made public, which is a big shift in how he was talking about this whole issue just even 48 hours ago. No one knows the whole Epstein saga better than my friend Brace Belden, co-host of the True and On podcast,

and one of the Internet's foremost experts on Epstein and MAGA influencers. Today, we are going to be dissecting what this latest Epstein cache reveals, the truth of what really happened between Donald Trump and Bill Clinton, and how all of this might impact Trump and the influencers in his movement going forward. Brace, welcome to power. It's a pleasure to be here. And I'm noticing my camera on my, my little MacBook here kind of makes it look like I have a goatee. I'm in a deeply shadowed room as well. That's a good place to be because we're going to talk about some real shadowy figures and, you know, creeps here today. I feel like a lot of people have seen the like Bill Clinton, Donald Trump memes online. We're going to get into that. But can you talk about sort of this big email release? What is the latest development in the Epstein saga? And like, why is it all back in the news?

So there are a couple of things going on with the Epstein files in, for those clowns in Congress are doing. One of them involves the release of documents to the House Oversight Committee, which is where these came from. And I believe this is the second or maybe third release of documents that they've done. It's sort of a slow trickle. And frankly, I'm not really sure how they're figuring out which gets released when or anything like that.

This kind of came out with very little notice. And then there's also a bill co-sponsored by Thomas Massey. and Roe Kana, the famous Roger Kana, and that is going to call for a full release of the Epstein files, which whatever those may be, I mean, those, those as far as we know, that's just whatever the DOJ specifically has, that is related to the investigation. And this seems to be a big chunk of Epstein's emails and I message conversations and a couple other messaging app conversations with various people, mostly older men and a couple older women. Yeah, so let's dive it. What is in all these emails? Because I know there's like tens of thousands of them people are going through. I think Bloomberg and some other places have made like these searchable databases. What have we learned from these emails? What are some big takeaways? I think one thing that piqued my interest at first. And I'm still looking through these. I don't think anybody has seen all of them yet. And they're a little sometimes difficult to parse because they'll have this sender's name or not the senders, but they'll have the person that Epstein's talking to, their email address and their name will be withheld. And so you have to sort of figure out from context clues or from, from the many places where the email address is just still in there. It seems a little haphazard how they did it. The main thing that I immediately picked my interest were the pages and pages and pages of text message conversations between Jeffrey Epstein and the one and only Steve Bannon,

the host of Steve Bannon's War Room and known for one or two other things. It was known that Steve Bannon was advising Epstein. He sort of hurriedly put together a fake trailer for a documentary that he says he was doing to expose Epstein, released the trailer for. years ago. We've heard hide nor hair of it since. And this shows the level of closeness that they had. I mean, they were much closer than even I imagined. At the same time, it appears that journalist Michael Wolf was fulfilling the same role and was a lot closer to Epstein than he led on. The big thing, of course, is all the Trump stuff. And it seems like this was a very Trump-centric release.

And unfortunately, to disappoint a lot of people, there's been no, I don't know, disappoint a lot of people's the right way to put it, but you know what I'm saying? There actually have never been. been allegations relating to Trump in terms of Epstein. There was that lawsuit from the someone purporting to represent someone who was raped when they were 13. There was a lot of really weird backstory stuff with that. And it kind of seems like that is that really wasn't one real. But the way that Trump has acted during his presidency this time around this has been the most suspicious that you could possibly ever act. And so I think a lot of people are really primed to figure out or to try to figure out what exactly he's trying to hide here.

Well, yeah, how is he being suspicious? And also, like, wasn't there the thing in the emails where, like, they were saying, like, Trump was, like, upstairs with a girl or was that, there was like some sort of. Yeah, it was Epstein telling somebody, I think it was, this was during Trump's first term. I mean, most of this takes place during Trump's first term or before. You know, that Trump had been in his house along with Virginia Jafray, who was recruited, who was a victim, sort of the most prominent of, you know, Epstein victims recruited by Glyn Maxwell from Mar-a-Lago when she was a teenager. And I have no doubt that Trump knew what was going on there. I mean, you don't have to be a damn rocket sign. Actually,

frankly, if you're a rocket science, you're probably hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein. But you don't have to be, you know, you don't have to be Inspector Clouseau to figure out, oh, I'm going over to this weird old guy's house that I'm friends with. Oh, look at that 16-year-old girl that's like chilling here in a bikini. They're probably just friends. I'm sure that Trump knew what was going on, but frankly, probably a lot of guys that Trump knows are like this. Yeah. So let's talk about the Trump and Clinton stuff. Because there is this line in one of the emails where I think it's talking about Trump and then Baba. Bubba is like, I guess, Clinton's nickname. Also, maybe Galena had a horse name, Bubba. So can you kind of like,

give us the background and also like, you know, what do you think happened? I'll talk about that in a second because I don't think anyone's actually really grappled with the implications of what that means. But the email is Epstein talking to his brother, who I guess would also be Epstein. But Jeffrey Epstein talking to Mark Epstein. And they're just fucking around. You know what I mean? However, it is really funny because, yes, Bill Clinton's nickname is Bubba.

Although now Mark Epstein is saying that wasn't a reference to him. Who was that a reference to then? Maybe the horse. But I want you to imagine, you don't have to do this. Somebody out there has to imagine. There is no way that Bill Clinton. And don't let your personal feelings judge, to cloud this. Bill Clinton is not getting fucking trash.

hash-ass head from Donald Trump. I'm sorry. That's like I don't like Bill Clinton. I'm not defending Bill Clinton whatsoever. I think Bill Clinton is a disgusting pervert. However, I don't think Bill Clinton would accept that because Donald Trump, Donald Trump is not. I mean, and if I'm misremembering, it's the other way around, neither of those guys are sucking dick good. And both of them, I think, would demand something better than the other was able to provide. So I think it's, I think it's just them jesting. I know. It's so funny because like, obviously it's a meme. And like, it's like clearly a joke. But I was on, I have this other Instagram page

where it's just like full of all these like resistance people. You could not convince them that this is not real. Like what is that with their brains? Because I feel like there's so many people whose brains just sort of like permanently broke in 2017. And they, you know, they thought like Trump is in love with Putin or whatever. But they have, they're obsessed with these like homoerotic fantasies around Trump. Is it just like homophobia at the end of the day?

I don't even know if it's like identifiable. I mean, you could trace it back. to homophobia, I'm sure. But like, yeah, because you remember there was like Trump and Putin making out and all that, like they would like have these like pictures and stuff. And Putin, funnily enough, actually the email is like Putin has a picture of like Trump's sucking Bubba's dick or whatever. I honestly kind of feel like Jeffrey Epstein would be one of those guys like posting like Donald Trump's gay for Putin or whatever if he had been allowed to have a public Facebook and not been canceled, but which he does float at a certain point. He asks Michael Wolf if he should

start a social media, which I wish Michael Wolf had advised him to. I'm not going to miss words here. It's funny to imagine Donald Trump having gay sex. Am I saying gay sex as itself is funny? No, I'm not. It's not funny to imagine Donald Trump having straight sex because it feels like Donald Trump wants to punish women. However, him having gay sex, I feel like would give you the same sort of strangely delightful feeling as one gets seeing Donald Trump at like the McDonald's or something, where you're like, huh, I feel like I see a glimpse of another world where you're a different person and maybe more complete or something like that. But I really also just think that like for a certain people of a certain age,

someone doing something gay is the funniest thing that they can think of. And I can't argue with them. I'm not sure I could imagine Donald Trump doing something funnier, but I'm not also really in the business of imagining Donald Trump doing funny stuff. I guess I was just imagining that. I don't know, but there is this obsession with Donald Trump being gay. I know it's so weird. And it came up recently too because we're talking about how like, you know, it's like J.D.

advanced with the eyeliner. Like, there's just something. And the thing is, Donald Trump is the queen. Like, he seems like, there's that aspect to it too. So a bunch of the MAGA influencers, I was looking at sort of like how they were responding. And like, how is the MAGA world taking all of this? Because so far what I've seen is them mostly focused on this like redacted name somewhere. It seems like it's increasingly coming crashing down around them. The MAGA response to this entire thing has been kind of stupendous to watch. And like, it is one of the things that's damaged Trump kind of more than anything. Like, more than like, those. was fucked up insane like John Wick ice raids they're doing in fucking Chicago and like all this like

brutality and the stupid tariffs bullshit. I think that's fucking Trump up too. But this shit is like it was such an important part of his basis like viewpoint towards Trump for a while. And then had to have him do that weird like abrupt heel turn after the release of the first tranche was supposed to be the only tranche to like lives of TikTok and Jack Posobiac. When they all like stood outside the White House, like holding the binders, like, we've got the Epstein files and it was actually like nothing. It was just like shit that had been released during the Galane trial and then like whole pages of redacted names. Trump is weird focus on it being a hoax. I maybe he has PTSD from the Russia Gate stuff and he's like they're doing Russia Gate to me again.

I think part of it's that. But I don't understand how he how he doesn't like he doesn't see how badly this is playing to parts of the base. And the thing with Trump is you really kind of got to be all or nothing if you're if you're one of like the MAGA influencers. So like I think Kat Turd is sort of the best one because he the minute the wind changes direction, he will tweet in support of whatever the president's doing. There's been a sort of rupture within the ranks of like the kind of three most MAGA ladies, two and a half of the most MAGA ladies in Congress, Marjor Taylor Green, Lauren Bobert and the esteemable and beautiful Nancy Mace.

You know, Marjorie Taylor Green, I think, is like the, like, platonic ideal of, like, a certain kind of MAGA person. Lauren Bobert is, like, slightly different ideal, but also, like, like, the kind of MAGA person. And they've signed on to that Rokanea Masey bill to, you know, push for the release of the Epstein file. It's over the line by one vote. And Trump has really been focused on taking them out. What he did is he brought Bobert to the Situation Room with Cash Patel. And had Cash Patel, I'm sure, you know, look at everything. everything in the room except for her. Well, it's not his fault. It's his eyes are like that.

Kind of frog-like in many ways. And Pam Bondi, I'm sure, sort of like, you know, muttered until she fell asleep because she took too many benzodiazepine. But, uh, but that didn't seem to work. Lauren Beaubert's signatures staying on the petition. And Marjorie Taylor Green, they're, they're doing the carrot with Bobert and they're doing the stick with Marjorie Taylor Green. Yeah, I saw people like posting on Truth Social of her like woke as like a blue-haired barista because he did some like tirade against her on there. He's been, he's been testing out new nicknames. And now you have certain MAGA personalities, one, a strange looking woman from Florida,

who I'm too afraid to name in case she sort of is summoned, but I think everyone knows what I'm talking about. And like cat turd are immediately like, we got to go after Marjorie Taylor Green. And so this is, this is kind of like dividing parts of the like lumpen dumb mega base. As for like the more sophisticated ones like Rufo or something, they recognize. Like, they're like, this is a distraction from like the great shit that Donald Trump is doing to immigrants. And so like we have to like keep the focus on like they want it. They want Trump's presidency to be a little more serious and based or whatever than it actually is.

And so I think they're running up against this stuff. And like I'm sure, you know, I pity them in a way, you know, like for a guy like Rufo, all of the soldiers as his army are fucking stupid and think that our JFK Jr. is alive. Just for people that don't know, Chris Rufo is this like react. right wing, like anti-D-EI guy who's, yeah, just super basically like virulently racist and yes, yeah, yeah. And he's like a Manhattan Institute guy. He's like, but he's like, he's like an institutional based conservative. He's like writing for the Wall Street Journal. Exactly. He's like mainstream. Yeah. And I think that they're like for guys like that, the Epstein stuff has never really been like, like he wasn't like a QAnon believer or whatever. Well, that's what like

Q&on seems to have evolved into the Epstein stuff. Well, it came out of that a little bit and then like kind have ended up there a little bit. And now to have Trump be like, it's fake. I mean, like, I don't know what you that's the equivalent to like the Khrushchev speech or something. Like, what do you do? And they don't know what to, like, they don't know what to do. And so they're kind of just like going in all different directions and being like, well, look, this actually exonerates Trump. And the crazy thing is like, none of these emails are that bad for Trump. Like, I wish they were. But like, there's nothing in here where Epstein is like, yeah, me and Donald Trump are pedophiles together. Like, If you know anything about like Trump's sort of sort of history, like this stuff is just like par for the course.

And like kind of it is kind of like not that much on Trump. And so like I don't understand why he's so crazy about not letting this stuff get out. And that makes it look so suspicious. Do you think that this like next trove of stuff like say Ro Khanna is successful and they do sort of declassify whatever else they have? Like is there anything that we don't know? To me it seems like we have heard so much about Epstein. for so many years as somebody that doesn't follow it that closely. I'm just like, okay, how much is enough?

Like, first of all, I love reading the stupid emails sent from an iPad or like, it's funny that he had like an entire like email that was like his Jeffrey vacation email or something. Like this stuff is like funny. You find out that Larry Summers is Cheater his wife from the emails, which can you imagine Larry Summers' wife? I mean, who was also, by the way, good friends with Epstein, like, get him to some up for money in the emails, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

But like, can you imagine being like, can you imagine being like, Larry Summers' wife and like the House Oversight Committee releases 20,000 Jeffrey Epstein emails and you find out your wife has been cheating on you, or excuse me, your husband's been cheating on you with a beautiful younger Chinese economist who there's rumors also linking to Tony Blair. And same with Jonathan Farkas. He's cheating on his wife in these emails as well. And like, I just, I would give anything to see the conversation that comes out of that. Well, I love the like messiness and how much also just like these emails just continually reveal,

like how much, very much, like, in one big club, all of these people are. Like, they're all, like, going to the same parties. They're all one degree away from each other. They're all, like, glad-handing each other in various ways. But, like, how much more can we get? Like, I want it. Listen, I want to read it all. But, like, say this, like, Roe-Kana stuff does come out.

Like, when will we have sort of everything that they need? Or is this kind of, like, Q&on, where it's just, like, endless conspiracies and conspiracies and conspiracies, no matter how much they release, like, you can't change people's mind that there's more. I think that at the end of the day, like, no matter, what you believe that Epstein was up to, there's no way they're releasing like everything. You know what I mean? Like I was at the Galane trial. They took like boxes of hard drives from his house. That's not the shit that's in these files. You know what I mean? And like J.D. Vance has

mentioned that. He mentioned 15,000 something. I can't remember if it's pictures or gigabytes of pictures. I can't remember, but it's some absurd amount of child porn, which is like we've never actually heard of Epstein like being a consumer of child pornography or anything. I mean, Well, now they're trying to litigate, like, who's a child. Like, I saw Megan Kelly trying to be like, well, you know, is a 15-year-old a child, really? I think they're going to kind of be forced to go with, like, these are children who are, like, ironically, they're originally, it's like Epstein's original defense that he did in Florida with like, well, I didn't know they were 15 and like the age of consent or whatever in Florida. I think the age of consent actually in Florida is 18, but like, whatever, like the age of consent in like a lot of states is 16 or 17. And they'll be like, well, it's like not that.

He's not a pedophile. Technically, he's an Ophibah file. And like, the problem is, is I don't think that they really have another argument. But conversely, or like kind of continuing from that, like, I mean, this is again, the DOJ files alone. And it's at the DOJ's discretion, what gets released. I think they have veto power on what gets released here. And I think if there's anything that would truly, like, bring everything down, that's not

going to be released. Like, why would they do that? If the government did that, why would they release it? And like, also, that's just the DOJ's files. I think there is sort of a looming scandal here about some massive financial crimes that Epstein might have been involved with. But I also don't think that those are going to be investigated because what the fuck, Cash Patel is going to look into that. And I will see if some of that gets released. I have no idea.

But, like, as for, as for, like, the child trafficking stuff, I feel, I don't know. I just the feeling I get is, like, that's sort of. certainly is there's been no focus of that. And Epstein is a fucking, he's a call me guy. If anything like crazy comes up where he doesn't want it to be on text, he says in emails and text, this happens over and over and over and over again. Call me at this number right now. I saw DropSite news reporting earlier to that he had like ties to Israeli intelligence. And I feel like this has been this like thing that people have been wondering since the jump is like, was he some sort of US intelligence asset? What are his weird ties to Israel?

there's that picture of him in the plane with the IDF shit on. I mean, I feel like if you're in this upper echelon of rich billionaires already, like, in American government power, you have some weird tides to Israel just because they are such a, you know, intertwined with our government. But like, do you think he was this like Mossad spy? Like, what information do we have on any of that stuff? We don't know. But I don't think like, I think it's sort of reductive to call him like Mossad.

Like he, I don't think that he like is in Mossad. I mean, he was like. seemingly best friends and business partners in like a sort of transnational money making, intelligence sharing, whatever thing with Ehud Barak, who was a former prime minister of Israel and former intelligence officer like bigwig in the IDF. I think Epstein kind of like especially these emails are really useful actually for seeing how he did that. Like his fingers are in a lot of pies that would be something that like a high level operator would

be involved in, but it doesn't mean he's like operating unnecessarily like 100% on behalf of Israel. And in fact, like, I mean, I just, I'm just calling as I see it so far, it seems like he was kind of on his own shit. Like he had like groups of people from different countries that he had this sort of network. Like there's an interesting exchange, series of exchanges really. And actually this reminds me, I need to look at the Ehud Barak emails to see if this comes up there. But there's an interesting series of exchanges that he has with Steve Bannon about the foreign minister of the Slovak Republic. And you can see Epstein sort of grooming the foreign minister who is the fucking UN General Assembly president in the year that this is happening and to like kind of draw him into like

Epstein, like to become sort of one of Epstein's boys. And so like none of this like they don't mention Israel. There's a lot of like shit that's going down with them in Gulf state countries and and with the Israelis as well. But like it's not explicit. Like we're doing this for Israel. It's almost like they're operating with Israelis, with certain Gulf guys, with certain Americans,

with certain Europeans. And they have this kind of network. And now whether that is like at the direction of somebody somewhere else, it's unclear. It just isn't, we don't see that here. But it really, really,

really seems very similar to Glenn Maxwell's father, Robert Maxwell. And his kind of like transnational, dealings and he was buried with full basically military honors in Israel. So I don't know. I mean, yeah, it's, uh. Well, it's so weird. Like, I feel like once again, like once you're in these upper echelons of society, like these emails are just such a good peek into it. And it does seem to just sort of like indict the whole system. And it's bad. And also just like it's interesting how much of a Democrat he was too. No, he gets red pilled. So he goes from like, all his 2016 emails are like,

straight up boomer like forward slop. Like he is like forwarding daily beast articles that are being like, Trump is, you know, is Trump psychotic or whatever? Like does Trump have BPD and like he's sending them to like his lawyer? But as he like is like chilling with Bannon more, he congratulates Bannon at one point on the Sweden Democrats like getting a larger vote share in an election. Like that's like a far right like far right party in Sweden. And like he's talking about.

like, you know, he's hanging out with Sebastian Kurz, the, uh, the right wing Austrian prime minister who is in a coalition at the time with like the far right Austrian party. He's talking ban on and he's like, you know, like, tell him what's up. He doesn't say tell what's up. But like, you know, he's like, he's slowly like kind of getting more into. He's like making black jokes about Obama with Bannon. Like you can see this kind of evolution. And whether that's him like, you know, code switching from from New York, you know, Jewish liberal to talk to Bannon and be like, you know, what's up? I don't know, but like, it is really interesting because, yeah, from, from prior to like 2016, Epstein, it fully seems, or 2017, Epstein is just full lib, like, you know, he's sort of rejected by the

Dems, although I guess they did send him fundraising email, so you can never get out of that. But he kind of like gets into Bannon. And Bannon and him are like talking about trying to get, put one of their people in as the, the head of the European Parliament, which they're both under the impression has like a lot of power, which it does not. And like, he, he, He seems to really kind of relish in this skullduggery with Bannon. And at the same time, he's also connecting Bannon. Like, Bannon is an alternative for Deutschland, like, he's speaking for them at this Bundestag event. And then at the same time, Epstein is hooking up with some Saudis that are coming to Berlin that day.

And so it's like he's like working all these angles here. And what he actually believes, I don't know. But he's certainly amenable to a lot of big right wing stuff towards. And then he gets arrested. Right. And then it all comes crashing down. I just want to talk about like sort of the influencer aspect. I mean, I don't know if Bannon is fair to classify him as like an influencer,

but like, why isn't this stuff blown back on Bannon? Like, why aren't Marjorie Taylor Green and all these other people like coming for Bannon? It's so weird. I feel like, I mean, I kind of get the impression that Bannon is just like maybe not as big a player anymore. Like he seems a little like outpaced by like on one side Chris Rufo kind of people. And then on the other side like based like Tucker Fuentes kind of people. I mean, Bannon's whole thing is like he's not only, you know, the Breitbart.

air, but he's also like this, you know, like brilliant dark Leninist, you know, organizer. I don't know. I think a lot of that may be his smoke, but like he really got isolated when he sort of got iced out by Trump people in his own telling because he, uh, he supported Roy Moore, a famous a fibophile against, I guess Ivanka's wishes. And so I think that I don't know. It's, it's interesting though, because I feel like Bannon is just like continuing on. I'm going to, I'm actually going to try to get his number tonight and text him and ask him.

The war room chugs on. It really does. Like, I'm also just kind of just super curious. Like, you mentioned the Fuentes and the Tucker Carlson. Have you been seeing Candace's numbers lately? They're crazy. I mean, I hate to say it. And what an irony.

The last time I looked at her YouTube, 6 million. She's on a generational run. Like, it's insane. It's just shocking how ascendant she's been. And also how many normy people she is reaching Democrats. She is reaching everyone. And I feel like she, Fuentes, Carlson, like they've all become. companies like kind of powerful voices in culture like how are they navigating all of this stuff and like

what is their take on it because it seems like they're increasingly distancing themselves from trump too well it's it's i mean flentes has always had this like kind of smart position where he he he in sort of the the parlance of the dissident or whatever all right he counter signals trump because trump i think funtis is smart enough to know always kind of lets his base down in whatever ways and so flentes can kind of like boost himself up by being like look i called it or like you know he wasn't hardcore enough for me. Tucker is interesting because I feel like Tucker has kind of gone to have gone this metamorphosis and like he's he kind of sees himself being left behind by like Candace and Fuentes and he seems, I hate to say it, to be playing catch up a little bit.

I don't know. I don't know what's in his heart but I'm just saying from a purely media market perspective and if Tucker if he wants to talk about I'd love to talk about with him. Candace however I think is genuinely there's something wrong with that lady. I think that there's I think Candace is like, like, Tucker and, and Fuentes are pretty smart. I mean, not like genius level, but like, I think that like they're probably aware enough. Like, sometimes you see a breakthrough with Fuentes where he's like, I hate everybody who watches my show. Like, you're also fucking stupid. Tucker, I don't know.

But like, I think Candice really believes every word that she's saying and is like maybe like severely mentally ill and undiagnosed. Because like, I watch Candace. I consistently watch Candice Owens. I find her to be very beautiful. And of course, as a Jew, the forbidden fruit. But I have kind of watched her develop this, like, cosmology of, like, politics, which is like the Jews, the Freemasons, which is kind of a throwback, the Ross Child, which also obviously overlap with the Jews,

and Satanists and various other people. And sort of every one of her storyline starts to connect. And so she does remind me, there's a great book called Dementia Preycox that is sort of these case studies of schizophrenics. She reminds me of many people from that book. I'm not saying that Candace Owens has undiagnosed extreme schizophrenia. I'm just saying that I find her affect in the way that she describes things very familiar after having read this book, which is entirely about people with schizophrenia. I see her content as an outgrowth of the like Marjorie Taylor Green, Q&ON, like kind of thing.

Like to me, because every single like conspiracy theory has this kernel of truth. And like there is a kernel of truth in a lot of the stuff. And you see it on display in these Epstein files, right? is that there are these like billionaires that that sort of cross party lines and sort of like operate on this like world stage that's like they're not beholden by laws and governments and things. It is interesting because like I feel like QAnon stuff got too crazy. Like listen, I spent a lot of time with Q people and there's still like Q stuff is kind of just diffuse and like basically all MAGA people kind of just believe some parts of Q now. But it's like ever since they like they retired the original Q poster like it's just it's not it's it's gone down. Hill. You know what I mean? Like it's, it's, or it's faded in relevance. And then you kind of have

this new breed of like MAGA influencers. Like, Candace Owens isn't new, but she's new in the position that she had, newly has the position that she has. Kind of create this new mythos off the back of the QAnon stuff. And, and I think the way Q went wrong, it was very millinarian. Like, there was a day that was coming. There was a storm that was coming. These, these streets will be washed away of these democratic pedophiles. And then that never happened. In fact, Joe Biden became president. That was tough for Q because Joe Biden was supposed to be, you know, in Guantanamo Bay for having a baby or whatever. And so I think that like these new ones are like more grounded, I guess, not grounded in like reality, really, but like grounded in current events. Like it's not about

JFK Jr. You know what I mean? And like, yes, Candace Owens talks about the Ross Childs and Baffamette, but that's because that's who's doing the 2024 Olympic opening ceremony is the elderly transgender wife of Emmanuel Macron. And so, I don't know, I think it's now Q&I is just like, it's just like one of those things that like, it kind of became like how a lot of people just like still like have like abolish the police in their bios or whatever, but like they just forgot to like whatever change it in like five years. You know what I mean?

And so like you'll still see people with like where we go one, we go all. But like, but on true social, on the other hand, it is, I've been using true social like every day for a while. it is just fully back then. Like it is, I mean, I'm sure it's all bots or whatever, but like it is, that is a site that will drive you mad if you look at it long enough. It's still all like eagles with where, you know, like refill your popcorn. You'll love this next part.

And yeah. And so I've refilled by popcorn so many times. And don't get me wrong. I've loved this next part every time this next part has happened. But it's like they're still kind of waiting for the Trump Messiah thing. What do you think is going to happen with like lives of TikTok hate against their name? like, or these other influencers, Jessica Reeve Krause, others that stood up that were, you know, I'm here with the Epstein binder.

Like, what happened to any of them? I feel like a lot of those people have gone very quiet on all of this. I mean, off the top of my head, who was there? Rogan O'Hanley, D.C. Drano. He's a fucking no disrespect because we need, D.C. needs some Drano. And so I'm not going to hate on the guy for doing it. But he's a non-entity. You know what I mean?

Like, he's not a power player in the Magistphere. He just has a lot of Twitter followers. It's interesting when you think about power. in the Magosphere because I actually think looking at, like, I think that was the peak of a lot of those influencers power. Absolutely agree. Absolutely agree. I think Rogan Ham, I mean, that guy, I think emblematic of that, right?

Like, he is just so outflanked on every level. I mean, they have the, who's the Elvin gay guy? He's like the get out the vote gay guy that they have. I don't know how else to describe him. I'm sorry. I'm not being whatever about it. It's just that's, he's long, he's really, Scott Pressler. Scott Presler was there.

He somehow is wiggled out of everything. But to be fair, he was probably just like, they invited me to the White House. Like, he seems kind of like that guy. Jessica Reed Krause has done an amazing thing, which is just become a full Epstein apologist, basically. Yeah, she's pro Epstein. Yes. I mean, I would say almost be on a shot.

I mean, maybe she'll attack me again. She really fucked with Trunon before. But like, I mean, I don't know how to describe it. Like, she has this guy, Jay Beecher on who like, I'm pretty sure was working for Gailene Maxwell at one point. He threatened to sue me. He also lives in Kiev, so I don't know, maybe, well, whatever. I will finish that thought in my own head.

And then Sernovich, but Sernovich is like, he's like kind of Johnny Come Lately Day. He tried to be everything to everyone. And so like, I feel like, if you're not live streaming or having a regular broadcast, it's like that's really what you need to have. Well, that's why I think like lives of TikTok has fallen off. I feel like the whole mega influencer world pivoted to video. She couldn't get that video deal and she's atrocious on camera. I will give her that video deal.

I'll give her whatever, 25 shuckles the fucking week. You know, say something to a camera, baby. Do a cameo or two. Dolazal was doing it. She just can't. I think she's so, I don't know if it's her upbringing or what, but she's so awkward. Like she can't, she says she does, she's not even on Fox regularly. I can say it due to her upbringing, there's a high possibility that she can't read.

So it's possible that she is illiterate. And I'm just, you know, all my empathy towards her for that. But it's, it is, it's just, it is possible. It's just, if you look at the rates, there's a big New York Times article about. But, um, yeah, I feel like she just, she doesn't pop. Pesobiac, on the other hand has, you know, I find it to be an odious individual in many ways, but he is a hustler. And so he's really, since, since, uh, Charlie Kirk had an accident, he has been really, like,

kind of taking the reins of a lot of that side of like the, like, the sort of one foot in the based one foot in like the con ink side of everything. Like he is like the based con ink guy. And how what is his stance on Epstein? God. I mean, he is such a fucking, he takes every stance on everything. You know, he was like, he flirted with Q and on at one point. He was like, he was hanging out with, uh, fucking Richard Spencer at one point.

He like takes every stance at every point. And so like, whatever it is right now, it'll be something else tomorrow. I'm pretty sure. No, that was Charlie Kirk that said it. He said, I trust my friends in government to figure this out. I'm pretty sure that he's just like whatever Cash Patel wants to do he can do. Well, still the worst take of all, I don't even know if it's fair to call him an influencer, but it was like Ezra Klein's post, obviously not right wing, that was like he wrote something

in the New York Times like right before all this stuff came out and he was like, I think Epstein's a powerful guy and probably had some powerful friends and it ends right there or something. It was something that was like everyone was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I actually have great pity for a guy like Klein because, listen, if I had to give by like prognostication and like whatever in the newspaper once a week, I would get so many things wrong. And he certainly has got a lot of things wrong. Like the reality is the Dems are being like very opportunistic about this, right? Like the right wing complaint about the Democrats not release any of this during Biden is true. Like the reason that this is happening right now

is to attack Trump. I'm sorry. This is what it is. But the reason that you can't attack Trump with it is because while he didn't necessarily run on releasing the Epstein files, a lot of people in his sort of cabinet did. And so like the whole reason the Epstein files are even like on the table right now is because of Trump. And so like I don't think that the Democrats would be like clamoring to release it because they're not that smart. If Trump hadn't been the one to like make this fuck up heel turn kind of right at the beginning of his is, uh, his second term. And so like Like Cash Mattel was like a release the files guy. You know, J.D. Lance told Theo Vaughn that like, oh, there's some bad guys in there.

I don't know what accent that is. But he's like, there's some bad guys and they were going to release it. Pam Bondi said she had this disgusting sick binder on her desk, which I guess was just like the redacted binder they gave to the lives of TikTok. And so like they're all, they were all like so, you know, gung ho about it. And then, yeah, they kind of, it's a real, and I got to say it hoisted by your own potard kind of situation. So what do you see things going? Like, do you think that we'll get this release with Rokana and how do you see the next kind of phase of all this playing out? Well, Trump suddenly switched tack last night.

I don't know what this is coming out, but last night on Sunday night, he had a change of heart. He's like, fuck it. Release the Epstein files or like, you know, I think that Republicans should vote for this. The kind of the smart money is on it being killed in the Senate. I think that Trump really just doesn't want to have to veto it because that is, he's smart enough to know how bad those optics are. And like they're sort of scrambling around to try to get this not even to a vote has has been a blow. And so like maybe someone showed him some numbers because the polling on this is not favorable for Trump. It's really bad for him.

Like it's one of the issues where his base is so divergent. It's I think maybe the most divergent issue. And so I think maybe he's making some deals with some guys in the Senate and be like, you got to, I know this will hurt you, but you got to kill this bill. But maybe they'll just release it. But with every, I mean, it's fucking Pam Bonnie and Cash Patel at the helm here. So like we already know that they went through the files and like highlighted everything with Trump's name and send it to like whatever. I'm sure one of his people. Because I also Trump kind of can't read too.

And I know I sound like blue it on there, but I know that for a fact that Trump kind of can't also can't read. Yeah, they could just like redact it all basically. Or just not release it. It'd be like because the DOJ has I believe and I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the DOJ even in the in the release the files bill has has the discretion to be like if this is involved in. their current investigation, we're not releasing it. And so they kind of have this like out, this sort of trapdoor there. It all just seems so ridiculous. And I'm kind of just like, I wanted to end.

I'm like, let's move on to the next thing. How many more times? I feel like the longer it goes on, the more fatigue everyone gets. So never ends. Nothing ever ends. Nothing ever ends. I do love the drama that comes out of it. I love the Bill Clinton conspiracy theories.

Is there anything else that was really surprising to you in the files that we didn't touch on? That was hilarious? Really the interesting stuff is almost kind of boring to talk about, but it's a lot of Epstein's international dealings, I mean, particularly the Norwegians, but the Gulf stuff is really interesting. And at certain point, he's really trying to market himself to Putin, who doesn't seem to take the bait. But like, he's trying to get to Lavrov to get to Putin. And he's like, we saw with some of the Ehud Barak leaked emails that that happening. And I think Barack can get to Putin. I mean, he was the prime minister of Israel.

But Epstein is like, he's like, if he ever needs any advice, like, yeah, just like hit myself or whatever. But I think that I think that we. are going to find out more stuff in that vein, which I think is like, like, we already know that, that Epstein was a pedophile. Like, we might find out that he was more of one. I'm not really sure how, but like, and I'm pretty sure he probably, you know, it seems like, at least with Jeff Staley, for instance, he was like hooking these guys up with unnamed individuals. I don't know how old they were, you know? It seems to be like one of his services that he could provide, but not the totality of what he did,

which is like multifaceted in its criminality. I mean, at least that's what we're learning from this. And again, this could also just be like a weird, as they call a limited hangout of just them showing us some stuff. I don't know how these emails were picked. Maybe they said I haven't been able to find that. And so, yeah, it just kind of remains to be seen. Okay, well, thank you so much, Brace,

for breaking it all down with me. No problem. All right, that's it for this week's episode. If you like the show, don't forget to support me on Patreon via the link below or by buying a paid subscription to user magazine at usermag.co. That's usermag.com, where I send out a biweekly internet culture newsletter of news roundups, what I'm reading, and more. As always, I want to remind people, I have zero brand deals right now, okay, zero. So every single dollar of your support matters so

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