Taylor Lorenz’s Power User - Tween Podcasters Are Taking Over the Internet

Episode Date: April 24, 2025

From middle schoolers riffing on school lunch to kids interviewing political figures, podcasting is no longer just for adults. With high-end mics, massive TikTok followings, and brand deals from major companies, tween podcast hosts are building real media platforms from their bedrooms and local studios.New York Magazine's EJ Dickson joins me to break down who the major players are in this growing space, including the MD Foodie Boyz, SaltyBoys, GSD Nation, the LOL Pod, and more. These tween stars have loyal fan bases, viral moments, and increasingly, the attention of advertisers looking to reach Gen Z and Gen Alpha audiences. We examine how kid-led podcasts are mirroring the formats and attitudes of older influencers, from Joe Rogan to the Paul brothers. And how, as more kids turn the mic on themselves and start broadcasting their opinions, jokes, and hot takes to the world, it’s reshaping what media looks like for the next generation. EJ and I discuss how this trend took off, where it might be going, and what it says about the future of content creation.Subscribe to my newsletter: ⁠⁠https://www.usermag.co⁠⁠Subscribe to my YouTube: ⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@TaylorLorenz⁠⁠ Follow me on IG: ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/taylorlorenz⁠⁠ Follow me on Bluesky: ⁠⁠https://bsky.app/profile/taylorlorenz.bsky.social⁠⁠ 

As people realize that there's a market for this, there's going to be a lot more industry plant type content in this space. While scrolling your feeds lately, you might have noticed a lot more children in front of microphones. Kids aged roughly 8 to 13 now make up one of the hottest and fastest growing audiences in podcasting. And a slew of tween-run podcasts have cropped up to reach this market. But how does a 12-year-old end up in a podcast studio with a $300 shore mic? Today I'm joined by E.J. Dixon, a reporter who's been covering this phenomenon. She spoke with the creators, platforms, and producers shaping the tween podcast space. Today, we're going to discuss the rise of the tween podcaster, why so many middle schoolers are picking up the mic, the big brand money behind it all, and what this space might ultimately evolve into. Hi, E.J, welcome to power user. Thank you so much for having me. I'm a big fan. So to start off, I feel like we've all seen a lot of these kids on our feeds coming up, or at least we've seen clips of some of these tween pod.

Tell me about this tween podcast phenomenon. What is happening? I just started noticing on my 4U page and on my Instagram reels that there were so many clips of like tween boys podcasting. So that was the original pitch to my editor. Why do these tween boys have podcasts? Like who is giving these tweens podcasts? And it eventually expanded into something a little bit broader. Why do you think tweens are suddenly drawn to podcasting? Because I feel like I've noticed the same phenomenon where I just, increasingly see these 12, 13, 14-year-olds with mics in front of their face all over my TikTok and Instagram. I think it's a few reasons. I think the main reason is because it's pretty easy and low-lift. I mean, you as a content creator know that there's a world of difference

between sitting and shooting and editing like a 30-minute YouTube video versus making a podcast where you can just invite somebody on and talk and shoot the shit. So it's fairly low-lift. So I think that's a big reason. I also think that there's a lot more advertising budget being thrown around in the podcasting space right now versus YouTube or versus meta platforms like Instagram. So there's money in it. But I think the primary reason is just how big podcasts have been getting over the past year, especially in the coverage following the election, how there was all this discussion about the podcast Manosphere. Everybody was realizing who Theo Vaughn was, who Nelk Boys were. They were covering, you know, how Donald Trump during the campaign had appeared on all of these

Manosphere podcasts and coming to terms with how much clout these people had. Kids are seeing that and kids have figured that out before the media did as well. Yeah, it seems like we're in this era of the podcaster as a massive content creator. Obviously, we saw people like Joe Rogan and Alex Cooper get these massive podcasting deals from Spotify. There seems to be so much money in this space. And I feel like it's just a format that's become so ubiquitous online as well with the rise of TikTok and just young people being bombarded with these like, podcast clips in their feeds. It seems like it just maybe has made them want to hop in on the medium as well. I think that the phenomenon of podcasts being promoted with like TikToks and clips on

Instagram reels, which has really started exploding over the past year or two. Like I think that's a huge, huge, huge part of it. And I also think the massive success of Barstool Sports as a podcasting empire and Dave Portnoy has played a tremendous role in the proliferation of like tween podcasting. Speaking of Dave Portnoy, I want to run through some of the most popular, at least most well-known, tween podcast with you. And you mentioned a few of them in your article. Number one is the MD Foodie Boys. This is a group of kids that are from Maryland, obviously MD. And they've actually cited Dave Portnoy as their inspiration. I think they collaborated with him. So to start, can you give me a sense of who are the MD Foodie Boys? I did do their first exclusive interview. So that is on my YouTube channel if you want to watch. But who are these kids? And what is the vibe of? their podcast. The empty foodie boys are these 13 and 14 year old boys in eighth grade in Hartford County, Maryland.

I think the words that can best be used to describe the vibe of their podcast is wholesome. Literally their podcast is just them sitting around a table with these ridiculously expensive looking microphones and recording equipment, sharing their opinions about like school lunch or the best Pringle's flavors. I think they had a clip that was circulating about oatmeal. and whether or not oatmeal was mid. It's just very, very innocuous content, and that's kind of what has resonated with people

so much that it really feels like you are just sitting at the table in an eighth grade cafeteria talking to these boys, and it feels extremely organic. And they've developed this fan following to the degree that all of their fans on Instagram came up with names for them. Like one of them is nicknamed Shub Perm, because he's got a perm. The other one is nicknamed Chubharm.

named McLeaven because he looks a little bit like McLevin. He also famously doesn't eat vegetables or went viral for trying celery. There's this whole lore around them that is very similar, I think, to that around the Costco guys. I think that's the closest parallel that I can draw to the MD Foodie Boys. It's the same type of content, like very wholesome, G-rated, innocuous content. And also they've sort of built this whole lore and universe around their content. as well. Yeah, it seems like it's so benign that it's almost brain rot level. Like you said, it feels like you're in an eighth grade cafeteria listening to these kids debate Doritos. But they've become so huge. I feel like they're really, they're really dominating in this

space. But another super viral tween podcast is the GSD podcast. And these kids also, they constantly come up on my Instagram feed because they're always commentating on politics or they'll do like this like emergency pod talking about tariffs. And it's just so bizarre to see these children, talking about events. So what is this podcast? Because I never really looked into it other than sort of seeing viral clips. Who's involved with it and who's behind it? Yeah, that's how they came on my radar too.

I saw the viral clip of the roundtable of the tween boys discussing. I think they were discussing tariffs, actually. And in the same episode, they talk about like whether or not they would prefer to have ice in their water. So it's sort of like a combination of Ben Shapiro, like mini Ben Shapiro and MD Foodie Boys is kind of the vibe, except. that's, you know, ultra right wing. They're really political.

And I feel like they're constantly talking about Donald Trump. And isn't there, I think you reported that their dad is involved or political somehow. Yeah, it's basically a family podcast. It's run by their dad, Matt Morstad, who had this big corporate job. I think he was like he worked for a weapons manufacturing company. And then he quit his job and he and his kids, who are 10 and 12, essentially became political content creators. So they're trying to build this content creation.

empire around this podcast and eventually spin it out into a couple other different media. Their audience is not that big, like their native audience. And something that the dad told me that I thought was really interesting was that most of their audience and engagement is negative. It comes from people like us, like liberals who sort of come across it and are like, these kids are getting indoctrinated. These kids are going to be the biggest lefties in the world someday. But they don't have like a huge native audience, but they do have some degree of clout, like

within the conservative ecosystem. And they've had some pretty big names on their podcast. They had Savannah Hernandez on their podcast. He was this big right-wing Twitter influencer. They had Callie Means, the guy who helped shape RFK's like Maha agenda. So they're making inroads, like slowly but surely. The next one you mentioned in your story was the Salty Boys podcast. Can you explain what they're up to?

Yeah, there are a group of kids who started a podcast a year or two ago. It's a combination of like hustle, bro content, weightlifting tips, Bible quotes. It's very much like an imitator in the manosphere vein. There's also the Girl Talk podcast, which I guess these girls are a little bit older because they seem to be teens more like teen versus tween. But they're getting so massive on YouTube. I mean, these videos have like hundreds of thousands of views. Can you describe their content? Yeah.

Again, it really just feels like you're sitting at a high, in this case, high school cafeteria, like shooting the shit with these high school girls. They like rate each other's Coachella outfits. They talk about their first kisses. They talk about like the craziest DM their exes sent them when they slid in their DMs. It's very much exactly the type of conversation that you would overhear real teen girls having. So they've really resonated with that audience. And then we have the LOL podcast. This is another one that is inescapable on YouTube.

And I feel like I've seen their YouTube shorts all over. It kind of like merges YouTube like kids YouTube content, but also it's kind of like Mr. Beastie, like the vibe of it. Tell me about that LOL podcast and who's producing it. I think the way that you described it is actually pretty spot on. It's a combination of stunts where you'll have like the Mr. Beast's thumbnail. Like I did TK at TK and with his face. And the podcast is a wide range of content creators. I think the youngest one is 14 and the oldest one is like 20. Yeah, there's five of them. I think they're all, like, broadly, I don't even know what generation of it's Gen Alpha or Gen Z, but they're super, like, YouTube-pilled in my mind.

Like, they have these hyper-expressive thumbnails that are like, I mean, the one is like, are boys scared of tampons, you know? And it's like Harper made Kate cry. I got blocked on Valentine's Day. I know it's not AI generated, but some of these titles just seem like they're like the most AI-generated, like, teen slop. It almost seems like a parody of what, like, tweens and teens would be talking about. It doesn't really have the same type of authenticity that I would say that the MD Foodie Boys has.

It's very much like targeted toward the YouTube generation where they build these like narratives and relationships. And the final one that you mentioned is the rock pod, which is the podcast from the Rock Squad, which is also a group of sort of child content creators on YouTube. Their content is also very YouTube held like so much. I just feel like Mr. Beast's influence like can be seen on all of these things. but there's just like hyper-saturated colors, bright stuff. The rock pod seems to be a bunch of young girls that have just recently started their podcast, right? It's honestly like it's difficult to sort of differentiate between some of these. It's almost like entering like a parallel universe where you just like click in and you see all

these like creators that are huge and have huge followings, but you've just never, ever heard of. I mean, it seems like they're sort of capitalizing on a more recent strategy, which is creating this content house and creating like all different types of. content and the podcast is just sort of another way to brand themselves, like another arm of, of that type of content. I think it's interesting how many of these podcasts offer advice. I mean, one of the Rock Pod's recent episodes is relationship advice from teens, as I don't know why we would want relationship advice from teens, but it seems like they're really focusing on a younger audience or like a teen audience or even an audience that's younger than they are. Who's the listenership for a lot of

these podcasts. Is it other teens or is it even younger than that? It's kind of hard to gauge because of child privacy and data collection laws. The people that I spoke to were like, yeah, it's really hard to find data for audience members who are younger than 18. From what I can tell, though, I think that's right. Like, I think that assessment is right that it is for kids who are younger than the age of the people in the videos. Because, you know, when I was 18, I wouldn't have sat there and listened to a podcast by my fellow by fellow 18 year olds about like first and Snapchat etiquette. It just like would not have been interesting to me. I would have been interested in something like a lot edgier. So I do think that it is sort of like for tween

girls cosplay teenage girldom in some way. Yeah. And back to the idea of advice too. I feel like so many of these podcasts really were birthed out of teenager therapy, which was so popular in 2020. Did that come across your radar at all? No. Teenager therapy was this huge hit podcast that was like one of the first hit Gen Z podcast. It was a bunch of teenagers in 2020. And I think they even started in 2019 that basically got podcast equipment and they started opening up about their lives and kind of having like these therapy sessions where it would be like these in-depth conversations about friendships and navigating different relationships and kind of interpersonal dynamics as well. The podcast eventually broke up because they all went to college. But I feel like it was this

unfiltered peek into these teenagers' lives. And it was so compelling because it was so unfiltered. They didn't have video. They didn't have thumbnails. Like, it was really real and raw. And I'm just, it's interesting to see that back in 2020 compared to these podcasts now where they seem so visually optimized. Like, are any of these podcasts, like are any of these podcasts. No, they, they are all video podcasts. All of the ones that that I covered at least are video podcasts. I mean, you know this better than anyone. Like you can't really have a podcast and not have it be a video podcast these days. That's how people are finding your content. They're not finding it on Spotify. Like Spotify and other podcast platforms make it like, really hard. There's no organic discovery mechanism. So that's really how people are finding podcasts now. Like even people my age, like even millennials are finding podcasts on Instagram reels and TikTok. What effect do you think the like YouTubeification of podcasts and just the visual medium and like clip based short form culture is having on the content that these kids are producing? Because so much of it feels so optimized for these platforms. I feel like that's what made the MD Booty Boys go viral initially is like they had these like really highly edited like short form clips that sort of mimic the style of like more professional podcasts.

How do you see sort of social media impacting the actual content strategy on these pods? So I think it's a couple things with the exception of the GSD Nation podcast. These podcasts are apolitical. They're not touching on any controversial topics. Literally like the most controversial topic that the MD Foodie Boys touches on is celery and whether or not it's good. So I do think that's very advertiser-friendly, and I think that's very algorithm-friendly. So I think that is a huge benefit when you have these, like, isolated little 30-second clips of kids talking about, you know, the most innocuous topics in the world. Like, that's going to go a lot more viral than something that is perhaps more controversial or more contentious, I think. I also think it's just the novelty of it. These kids are sitting around.

And their content is virtually, except for what they're talking about and except for like how small they are, like, their content visually is virtually indistinguishable from like a clip from a Rogan episode. So it's like really funny and really novel to see these little kids with like these big headphones and this really expensive podcasting equipment, sort of aping the Rogan aesthetic. And I think that really resonates with people. I feel like it's also just the way they program these podcasts is so optimized for the inner. And I think that that's interesting. Like one thing, when I was talking to the MD Foodie Boys for my interview a couple months ago, they were talking about having different segments. And I think a lot of these young people, because they've grown up in this podcast medium,

and they're so aware of what they need to go viral, it seems like they're optimizing their podcasts for these clips or these moments that are clippable moments or these topics that they can very easily package. And I feel like that's a departure from like the previous version of the Gen Z podcast that we saw where they were just more people like kids experimenting and they weren't thinking so intentionally about the internet. It seems like all of these podcasts are intentionally made for the internet. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, for sure. I mean, when they told me that their 19 year old brother, I think it's Chub Brum's brother is the one who's like managing the social media, I wasn't surprised at all.

Because I was like, whoever is managing their social media just understands like the real gets real's algorithm so intimately in a way that Gen Z, even like older Gen Z and millennial podcasters just don't understand. I remember when I had my own podcast when I was at Rolling Stone, and we were trying to figure out how to use TikTok as a way to help promote the podcast. There was a real learning curve. We didn't really understand how what we considered to be a purely audio-based format was going to translate over to a short-form video-based format. And Gen-Alpha, they just get that. They just get that innately. I want to talk about podcasting equipment, too, because a lot of these kids have nice podcasting equipment. I know. Yeah. And podcast equipment, too,

the prices have gone down, although I don't know what the story is with tariffs, but you can get like a decent mic and decent cameras. And it seems like technology has progressed to the point where you don't need, like, to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to make a decent podcast. There's platforms like Riverside, like we're using now too that allow you to do it remote. But is there funding going into this market? Like, how does some of these kids have such nice equipment? And do they have like corporate backers? In terms of the reporting that I did, like the people that I spoke with, there was a mix.

For GSD, the dad had quit his job and was investing, you know, all of his resources, virtually had a bunch of savings. It was investing all of his resources in this podcast and in this content empire. So in terms of financial backing, that's. That's what they have. They have the benefit of that. In terms of MD Foodie Boys, I don't know if they got into specifics with you, but what they told me was that essentially McLevin's dad has a friend who they're renting podcast space from for free.

Yeah. I think they're just like, sure, you guys can come over and do your little food podcast for an hour in our podcast studio. Yeah. So it's very ad hoc. I would actually be curious to hear your thoughts on this because they blew up pretty much right off the bat, right? They started in November. They started going viral. They had a video that got like five million views, maybe, you know, a week or two after launching. And they

sort of framed it as something that they were really surprised by. And obviously, like, when you interview content creators, they all say that. But I'm curious as to whether or not you think that's true. Like, I'm curious as to whether or whether or not you think they were conscious of the fact that they were sort of tailor-made for virality. Are the MDV Foodie Boys industry plants in the five-guards. Not industry plants, but like savvier than, you know, there's more to the narrative, I guess. I think it's this phenomenon where you see people like mimicking these children, basically mimicking adult-style male podcasts and that being such a trope and a trope that's so mocked online. And I think the Costco universe comparison was also really good, where they fit into like

the broader brain rot content category, which is just content that is so optimized for the internet. And I think that's what was interesting to people is like, here's a bunch of 11, 12, 13, 14, 14 year olds. I can't remember exactly how they are, but they're middle schoolers. And their content's just very well edited and well produced. And as you mentioned, it is the older brother that's, you know, doing a bunch of it. But just the idea that kids today can produce really high quality content, I think was enticing to people.

And just the fact that they are having this ostensibly serious discussion in front of these cameras with these really nice mics about potato chips or barbecue new wings. Like there's an absurd quality to it. I think that it's kind of interesting to see. I do know at the same time that there's a lot of interest in this space, as you mentioned, from advertisers and brands. And you actually talk to a company called Pocket Watch as well, right? What is Pocket Watch and what are they doing in the space? Pocket Watch is a kids entertainment multi-platform studio.

They're probably best known for producing Ryan's World. Ryan's World is sort of like the er-kitty YouTuber, I guess. He got famous when he was four years old for his unboxing videos, his giant egg videos. He kind of like established that template. And now he's 12 or 13 and he's sort of transitioning into like the preteen tween tween space. There was a, the Pocket Watch made a movie about him while his sisters, he has these two younger twin sisters are kind of taking on the role that he previously had as he ages.

So Pocket Watch is best known for that. They produced his TV show. They produced his movie, which came out last summer. I visited the Pocket Watch studio last summer, and they had all this Ryan's World merch just lying around, which I think a lot of adults would be surprised that there's this giant multi-million dollar toy industry around this one very little kid. But Ryan is a huge celebrity in the YouTube sphere. And they also represent a bunch of other preteen and kiddie YouTubers love Diana is the other big one. I'm not sure how old she is. I don't remember. I think she's also aging out a little bit. She's like 11. If you are a child influencer and you make it big online, I feel like you want to work with Pocket Watch because they're kind of like the gold standard.

They provide a lot of structure for the kids. Like if, you know, working with them, like, you know things are going to be by the book in the sense of like it's an actual company that's going to make sure that like your taxes are done and the children are compensated and stuff. But also they just have such a great track record of launching talent and developing talent. Yeah. So I spoke to Amanda Clecker who is the SVC. of marketing and franchise at Pocket Watch. Because I was curious, like, if this thing that I was observing, tweens entering the podcasting space, if this was just sort of my observation or if this was actually being reflected

by the kids' entertainment space at large. And what she told me is that they launched a podcasting division and audio division, like relatively recently, I think maybe a year ago. And they're focusing more on narrative podcasts, like scripted narrative-based podcasts for their audience, which is much younger. than the people watching Md.D. Foodie Boys or any of the other podcast that I reference in the piece.

So scripted podcasts like sort of like mini shows, like series? Yeah, like scripted serial. They did this mystery serial scripted podcast for the Gem Sisters, which is this trio of sisters who are also big YouTubers. It's so interesting because I feel like we're just the line between what a podcast is and what just like a YouTube series or a video series is. it's just completely gone at this point. Did you talk to them at all about how they think about podcasting and why they're leaning into this medium compared to kind of their other YouTube empire?

I think they're leaning into that specific medium because they see that that's where the growth is. I think YouTube's podcasting content has like a billion views or something ridiculous like that. Like they see those numbers and obviously they're like, okay, this is where the market is going. This is where our audience is going to go. I feel like it's also an attempt to kind of fight

against these algorithms, as we've seen. In some way, they're leveraging algorithms to grow their shows through short form. But podcasting is one of the few mediums that, like, if you get subscribers on, you can count on your content being delivered to them. If somebody subscribes to my podcast feed, I know that that show is going to go into their feed. Whereas I feel like everything else on social media is not distributed that way, right? It's distributed algorithmically. And so do you feel like part of a lot of these YouTubers pivoting to podcasting is also just an

attempt to build that more direct relationship with their audience. I think it is. I think it is a way for them to build a more direct relationship with their audience because in some ways it's the most intimate format there is, right? Like even if it's edited. There's something about listening to a podcast, listening to a bunch of people who you've formed these parisocial relationships with talking about their lives. There's something about that that is easier to connect to and that appears more authentic than a YouTuber who's making like a very heavily edited vlog. So I think there is that aspect to it. I think that a lot of these creators have correctly identified that Gen Alpha puts a premium on authenticity, whatever that means.

I mean, I hate that word because content on social media isn't really authentic, like, regardless of the format. But I think they realize that this audience puts a premium on the appearance of authenticity, at least, and that podcasts are a very good way of delivering that. There's that kind of viral tweet, I think it was a while ago, kind of became a meeting that was like, we should all know less about. each other. And when I think about the rise of these podcasts, especially some of the YouTube ones, where it's a lot of tween and teen kids like spilling about their lives where they're talking more about like the dating advice or crushes or things. Like I guess what impact do you think this will have on these kids going forward? Do you think that there's any sort of downsides or concerns that should be had about just giving kids access to like this unmitigated medium to

open up about so much of personal stuff? I think that you and I kind of, kind of of have the same stance on like the child influencer space or a similar stance, which is, I mean, my stance at least is basically, do I love that an influencer is the number one thing that every kid under the age of 18 wants to be? Like, no, I don't love that. Like, as a parent, I'm not a huge fan of that. Do I love that like Mr. Beast has more name recognition than like Barack Obama? No. Not particularly. But at the same time, like, I do think there are definitely positives to kids being in the social media space and kids being in the influencer space, not only because this is just the direction that the culture is moving in. We can't stop that and we have to embrace

that and accept it. But it's also positive for exactly the reason that you said. It's positive for kids to see other kids like them opening up about the struggles that they have and to realize they're not alone. One thing that really struck me was when I was talking to Matt, the dad, from GSD Nation, he was framing that. this podcast and sort of building his kids' content empire to me as a way to sort of instill in them the value of hard work, a way for them to think critically about issues and to learn the value of debating. And on one hand, I'm thinking this is the most conservative argument I've ever heard.

Like this is the most right-wing influencer thing I've ever heard like that that can't possibly be true. These kids aren't learning how to debate anything. Like they have the same opinions you do. at the same time as a parent. I get what he's saying. And I do see the value to that. I think he said something like they could be sitting in front of a screen all day watching Minecraft gameplays or they could be actually making content. And I would rather they be making content. And I totally agree with that as a parent. That's what I tell a lot of parents too, like when their kid wants to start a YouTube

channel or podcast or whatever. It's like obviously you want to have some oversight, encourage them to steer away from controversial topics. But it's good for kids to learn like marketing, video editing, you know, like these skills that are ultimately creative skills that allow them to express themselves, but also will help them in the job market and help them, you know, in a potentially a future career. I think so too. When I was in high school and when I was in college and even when I was in graduate school, like training, to be a journalist, like I never learned about any of these things. And it wasn't like YouTube didn't exist.

It wasn't like social media didn't exist. And it wasn't like there weren't conversations going on about how eventually the traditional journalism model was going to be switching to the more individualistic content creator model. Those conversations were happening, but I wasn't getting any practical training about how to sort of learn these skills and use these tools. So I think it's good that kids are learning them at a young age with supervision, with supervision. Always with supervision. Do not let your 11-year-old start a podcast without supervision. I also think it's interesting just how much the media talks about young people and their beliefs and their thoughts and what they're doing and what they're eating or, you know, what the trends are.

And it's interesting to see, like, as you charted in your piece, this, like, rise of these kids really building their own audiences and speaking for themselves. And I wonder how that's going to affect the media environment. Because I think for the first time we're seeing kids that have always been kind of spoken for in the media, develop their own platforms and speak for themselves and be able to talk about, like, I know you think that, like, you read in the New York Times that, like, this is the real trend among Genesey, but actually we all love, I don't know, this other trend or, like, Like we're all eating these kinds of Doritos now.

And I think it's valuable for marketers, but also just like for culture, it's interesting to hear these thoughts from these kids from their own mouths. I agree with that to an extent that it's interesting. I mean, maybe not like super interesting. But I do think that it like pokes holes in a lot of like the sort of lazy media like narratives around Gen Alpha or Gen Z. I don't even know how what like a 13 year old is. these days. But I'm just interested in what impact that might have if more of these kids get in

and start asserting themselves, like what impact that will have on sort of the coverage of their generation. Well, I think much like the content creator model, I think it's going to be incredibly destabilizing for the media. I definitely think this is going to get bigger. I definitely think there's going to be more money put into this space over the next year or so. I definitely think the age of the average podcaster is going to get younger. I definitely think that, we're going to see a wide range of these types of podcasts, some of which are perhaps more high quality and more positive for humanity than others. I think from a media perspective, from an industry perspective, like it's going to be very destabilizing. At the same time, this might sound like cynical,

but I don't think 12-year-olds and 13-year-olds change. I think that very few of these podcasters are really bringing anything to the table that's going to surprise us about what Gen Alpha thinks. You know, like there's always like the Greta Tunberg. You know, they're always outliers, but yeah. I guess I get so many pitches of like dumb, fake trend things. And I remember this happening with millennials as well, like when we were younger and there would just be all these like stupid trend think pieces. And I just think as more of these people are speaking for themselves online, it's just much easier to kind of determine how much of that is organic and actual versus kind of manufactured PR. And I think that's also, it's going to get harder to discern that within this specific space and the specific topic that we're talking about as well. I mean, we just had a conversation about whether or not we think the MD Foodie Boys are industry plants. And I mean, that's somewhat tongue and cheek. But like I do think that as people realize that there's a market for this, there's going to be a lot more industry plant type content in this space. And branded content. And like you said, like people pouring money in. It's interesting too,

to see like these, yeah, these podcasting networks and studios will probably likely go for younger talent. We know that these talent agencies already have like child influencer divisions and things like that. So it seems like it's really, yeah, it should really grow significantly. Yeah. And I think the MD-Foddy Boys is a really great example of that because I think at the time that you interviewed them, they didn't have any brand deals in place. They'd never even like spoken to anyone before. So it was. Yeah. Yeah. Because you were, you did the first interview with them. I was like, got to get the scoop with these 12-year-olds. But it's interesting. to see, like, I mean, as you covered in your piece, right, like within a couple of months,

they're with Dave Portnoy himself. Exactly. They're with Dave Portnoy himself. They're also working with Kava. They're working with Taco Bell. They're working with Buffalo Wild Wings. Like, these are huge brand deals. And this is in the span of a couple weeks, actually, because I think our story came out like maybe

a couple weeks after your interview did. It's crazy how fast they're growing. I'm kind of excited and terrified to see the MD Foodie Boys empire and how it grows. I will say when I did ask that MD Foodie Boys, their inspiration, they mentioned Theo Vaughn and Joe Rogan and the level of influence some of these like reactionary male podcasters have on children cannot be understated. That was also something that really interested me in trying to report this in sort of what the success of this podcast and the success of, you know, similar twin boy podcasts, what that reflects about masculinity and performing masculinity online. Because, like, you're absolutely right. Like, they are clearly hugely influenced by these somewhat toxic male podcasters and who are promoting the somewhat toxic view of masculinity. Even though the MD Foodie Boys aren't talking about, like, ayahuasca, and they're not talking about, like, pronatalism.

Like, they're not talking about anything toxic, but they're still, they're cosplaying it. Like, they're, they're cosplaying masculinity. And I think it's really interesting to see that and to see how influential, these figures have been on these boys' relationship. I don't want to get to Judith Butler, but how they perform gender. Well, it's interesting, too, to look at some of these tween girl podcasts, too, and see how they perform, like, what they view as, like, womanhood. Also, the podcasters that they look up to.

I mean, in that space, I think it's actually much better because a lot of at least young kids that I've talked to in that space really look up to, like, Emma Chamberlain, or maybe Alex Cooper is mentioned a lot, although I don't think she has a super young fan. base, but it is definitely, I think, they're shaped by that same Manosphere podcast where there are women, so they think, okay, I've got to talk about dating, I've got to talk about beauty, you know, I've got to talk about these like sort of traditionally feminine interests, I guess, because that's where the audience growth is and that is sort of what you are supposed to do as a woman online. Like the Girl Talk podcast, like, it's largely about like these interpersonal things and

things that traditionally like girls would gossip about. Yes, it's very much performing femininity in the same way that the MD Foodie Boys are performing a certain version of masculinity for sure. Well, can't wait for these children to grow up and have a massive political platforms, which is slightly terrifying? I mean, you're a mother. Would you let your kids start a podcast? That's such a good question. I was thinking about it the whole time that I was reporting this out. I think it would be so boring, honestly. Like, I wouldn't want to inflict that on humanity because my kids are eight and two. One of them just learned to like speak in full sentences. And honestly, like, I would say that even if my oldest was like a little older, just going back to the point I was

making earlier, like, I don't think these podcasts are interesting. That's kind of the appeal. Yeah, isn't that the appeal is like the sort of banality of it? Benality, yes. The appeal is the banality of it because I do think that like at the end of the day, 12 and 13 year olds, like, yes, they have complex in our lives and yes, they're thinking about a lot of really serious things, but like the stuff that they're willing to talk about publicly is like boring. Like it's, it sucks. And they're just like just like just. figuring out who they are and how they want to present themselves. And usually how they want to present themselves is like not that interesting, all of which is to say no, I wouldn't let them

because I would find it boring personally. And I think that their audience would find it boring too. All right, E.J. Well, thank you so much for joining. Where can people follow your work? Thank you so much for having me. I am on Blue Sky at E.J. Dixon. I'm on Twitter at E.J. Dixon. I'm on Instagram at E.J. Dixon. And I am a senior writer at New York Magazine's The Cut. Awesome. Thanks. All right, that's it for the show. You can watch full episodes of power user on my YouTube channel at Taylor Lorenz. Don't forget to subscribe to my tech and online culture newsletter, usermag. That's usermag.co, usermag.co to support my work and to keep this podcast going. That's usermag.com. Usermag.com to support my work and to keep this podcast going.

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