TBPN Live - Microsoft to Take On Muse, Trump & Xi Dinner, The Mansion Section | Diet TBPN

Episode Date: September 25, 2026

Diet TBPN delivers the best of today’s TBPN episode in 30 minutes. TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with each episode posted to podcast platforms right after.Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” the show has recently featured Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella.TBPN is made possible by:Ramp - https://ramp.comPublic - https://public.comCisco - https://www.cisco.comConsole - https://www.console.comCrowdStrike - https://www.crowdstrike.comFigma - https://www.figma.comMongoDB - https://www.mongodb.comNYSE - https://www.nyse.comRailway - https://railway.comShopify - https://www.shopify.com/Follow TBPN: https://TBPN.comhttps://x.com/tbpnhttps://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive

We got some debates on the timeline. I identified four debates for. You don't want to call them debates, though. You want to call them arguments, fights? I thought arguments. Okay, we're throwing down. We're throwing down. Wouldn't someone rather listen to an argument than a debate?

Okay. First one, Microsoft. Is Microsoft about to have their Muse moment? They've launched co-pilot. Now they're launching a new product today. Is it going to be a breakout success? Is it going to compete directly with meta and me? or will it be a different thing entirely because it lives in the enterprise,

it lives in the Microsoft ecosystem. Let's go to take him. He says, shots fired. Pump, pump, pump. Microsoft will go after Meta's muse. From Alex Heath's interview of Satchanadella, he's doing the rounds. Quote from Alex Heath, he wants to bring autopilot's AI chief of staff to your personal life to. It's not staying in an Excel.

It's not staying in an outlook. It's going to be cooking dinner. Big move going from a co-pilot to autopilot. Autopilot. Yeah. It says a lot about their intentions with the product. Yeah, yeah. It is actually sort of the, like, is this AGI? Is this not AGI? Like if you're in the co-pilot mode, you're sort of signaling we're not really in the AGI era. Autopilot feels more like, although it's a term, it's a vague definition, it is significant in the brand term. So it's a hardened version of OpenClaw. The agent gets its own computer, workspace, and memory to work. Continuously. Virtual machine for everybody. It'll have its own computer workspace and memory to work continuously.

When I ask about Microsoft's consumer strategy, he points to its 100 million plus consumer subscribers. Microsoft broadly, they're going all in with autopilot. Autopilot should also go to the consumer side. He sees consumer agents potentially cutting out today's middlemen making that market more zero-sum. In the enterprise, he thinks agents will make the market. bigger than cloud by orders of magnitude. We got room to run. Sotcha said it himself. He's going to 300 T, 300 trillion dollar company.

I like it. What do you think? So first thought is that, again, everyone is building the exact same thing. So we went through this for the last few years. Yep. Everyone had a chat app. Everyone's building. The funny thing is the lore on GPD4, that was first available in Bing.

GPT4, the thing that, like, GPT3, 3, GPT 3.5 power, the original chat GPT, GPT 4 was only available through Bing. And then everyone was like, oh, I guess Microsoft's going to make a plan. Bing's going to be doing AI. And like, this is going to be a challenger to Google. And then they sort of like pulled back. Well, and at that time when Microsoft was backing up the Brinks truck or OpenAI, they certainly, I don't think it was, it certainly was non-obvious at that time

that they would be creating a company that they would ultimately compete with as much as they are, you know, partners. Yeah, yeah. Peter Steinberger, the founder of OpenClaught, chimed in. He said Microsoft shipped a really compelling product on top of OpenClawe today. We worked with them since March to make the code base ready for large-scale deployments. And of course, there might be some IP sharing agreement, right? Because didn't, oh, no, because Open AI hired Peter, but they didn't acquire OpenClaw.

Yeah, OpenClau's an open source. Yeah, so anyone can build on top of it. Yeah. But what's odd is that I think Nat Friedman stated that they didn't fork OpenClaw. They built something from scratch, but there are just conventions, and so you wind up having similar looking. They got a bunch of stuff right. It's just like if you build an e-commerce site, you're going to have a product detail page. You might have a similar site map and architecture.

It doesn't mean that you forked Shopify to do that or whatever. So the debate point is how big will this be? What is the actual impact to Microsoft? There is the cool macro tech story, which is just. just that the models have advanced to a point where there is a new use case. Like, they're useful in a new way, not just knowledge retrieval, not just go and write a bunch of code. They are useful, but that requires a new type of harness, just like when the models got good

at code, the harness became very important. We saw Claude Code and Codex and Cursor and a bunch of other companies, Cognition, really, like, define that era. Now the models are pretty good with personal agent stuff, sending text messages, talking to people integrating with Slack, et cetera. So the harness and the integrations and the partnerships matter. So we're talking about partners with Amazon. Who's going to be Amazon's dance partner? Who's going to be Walmart's dance partner? Who's going to partner with Shopify? How big is the open ecosystem? You need a different harness. You need different integrations. And you need a lot of new

user education because I think there's a lot of people. I mean, there's people that are still online being like, these things hallucinate. Like they have a knowledge cut off. Yeah, the main thing with this launch is that I don't think there's anyone on an accident. that seeing Microsoft launch an open-claw powered agent and thinking, I got to use that. I'm so excited. I really want it. That's my view, and I think it's correct,

and you're free to steal man it. That being said, they have such incredible distribution. They can still roll this out to a bunch of people who are going to try it and be like, wow, that's really cool and useful and helpful and be the first way that they experience this new paradigm of agents. And so as much as, like, I just think there's basically zero excitement

from like the core insider agent maximalists, there's going to be just natural excitement from everyday Windows and Microsoft users. Yeah, it is uncommon in tech, and maybe it's uncommon in X to like run your entire organization, your enterprise on Microsoft. The default tech stack for most startups is Google Enterprise, Gmail.

You set up the Gmail account for your employees, and then you add Slack, so then you're in the Salesforce ecosystem. and Microsoft is there, but usually with like one-off Excel licenses here and there for the finance team, does that resonate with you in terms of like how these products fit together? There's usually some Microsoft, but you have to go to a financial company or like a real economy company to see like, okay, these guys are all in on Microsoft as a tech stack, like Outlook down to bang, down to, you know, the database. and like fully integrated in Microsoft.

It feels like it could be more successful than the old co-pilot, and a lot of that's driven just by capabilities. The models are better, the harnesses are better, the integrations are better, and so the big question is like, when is Google gonna fire back? Because are they gonna wait until the next I.O.? Like that's a long way away, but they do love releasing on, you know, those annual schedules.

So it's like we might get a Google, like a crazy Google OpenClaw agent, personal agent in mid-20207 and then Apple's close behind in like 2035 something like that would they would launch something I mean Google does have there is Gemini spark which is like a 24-7 always-on agent but like no one does it have a VM does it have a real virtual machine I mean it says even if your phone and laptops are turned off it'll still keep working but I've seen like very little like no one's really talking about this anyway it'll be it'll be interesting to see if there's like you know, a niche community of like, yeah, I'm a Microsoft autopilot guy. I mean, the Cod integration could change things. It just depends on how you're positioning it. Like, if the brand,

if you talk to somebody in there like, oh, you know, are you a clog guy, are you a codex guy, a cursor guy, like all those things say certain things about you aesthetically. You're a muse. Okay, we get it. You like the Lubu guy. But if you come out and you're like, yeah, I'm actually a Microsoft autopilot guy, that could say two things. It could say Excel jockey, king of the financial markets. apex predator of the economy, or it could say, you know, dropping a nuke on God. Prestige Max. Prestige Max.

Don't you think? I agree. We spent way too long on that. We got three more, and our first guest is Johnny Ann Noon. And we still, we got to figure out a way to make the tensions go up and actually get an argument going here. We were fighting a little bit. That was too friendly.

Yeah. That was too friendly. Okay. Well, you wanted to argue that everyone, all the tech insiders were. couldn't wait to get their hands on autopilot. That was your stance, right? Yeah, that's a tough one. Tough to steal man that.

Anyway, Doge designer shared a photo from a dinner that happened at the White House featuring important tech people and none other than Xi Jinping, the Chinese president. So Elon Musk, President Trump, First Lady, Melania Trump, China's First Lady, AMD CEO, Lisa Sue, and Vigidae's CEO, Jensen Wong, and Apple's, Tim Cook got the prime seating right in front of Donald Trump, and they were at the prime table together. No translator that I can see in this image, although there is an empty chair, so it's possible that there was a translator at this. The empty chair would almost certainly be for Donald.

Oh, yeah. That would be. Yeah, that's right. We're going to put the translator just between Xi and Milan. Yeah, because Xi Jinping, whenever he speaks, he's, he, he, he, he, he, uh, he, he, he, uh, he, He gives his speeches, even in America, in Chinese. But he seems to be able to hang with Tim Cook, Elon, Lisa Sue, Jensen. Although maybe those tech leaders at least know that one important phrase,

if you want to really ingratiate yourself with a Chinese speaker. What do you say to them? Well, hunch. You want pizro, right? That's what you got. Always works for me. If you're ever seated with Xi Jinping at a dinner at the White House, just throw that down and he'll be like, one of us.

One of us. Now it's time now. Now it's time to deal. Notable that Elon and Tim, no plus one. They're locked in. Okay. No time for, no time for guests for them. What's interesting is that Dario wasn't there.

He's sparred with the administration before. We've seen this. He's also attended plenty of meetings in D.C. And Tom Brown, the co-founder of Anthropic, has been on a reset with the administration. and even went as far to praise Trump's Let Data Rain Post on Truth Social. This was September 1st. He said to Howard Lutnik at the G20 Innovation Ministerial in Chapel Hill, quote, I really loved President Trump's post from earlier this week.

And so there's clearly olive branches going out, but they haven't been fully received because the dinner invite was maybe didn't materialize Or maybe he turned it down. We don't actually know. But I was offered 15 plus ones, maybe 10 plus ones, maybe 5 plus ones. And he decided to lock it and grind for the, grind for the ASI. Well, you know who was there? Who was?

Lynn Martin. Lynn Martin. From the New York Stock Exchange. Our friend. But yeah, it was a stacked, stacked list. There's a lot of folks. Sam Aldman, Greg Brockman, Anna Brockman, Sergey Brin, Satcha Nadella, Sondar Piscan. Sundar Pachai.

Cristiano Amman from Qualcomm. Our guest this week made it to the dinner. Came back from Hawaii. David Solomon from Golden Sacks. Tons of other folks. Exxon Mobil. It was really who's who of the global economy. A lot of people are saying Ty Lopez was snubbed.

Yeah. I would have liked to see a Jock Willink. I would have like to see a Joe Rogan on this list. Sort of disappointing that they didn't include podcasters except for David Sacks. He did make it. And also... Yeah, he's a podcaster. and adventure. Secretary Kennedy also has a podcast. There's actually a fair amount of podcasts.

Brad Gersoner podcast. Sam Altman ran the Wai Combinator podcast years ago, startup school. So former podcaster. The question is like should Dario have been invited? I think even though they're having beef with the administration, like it's such an important company. It's important that he's in the conversation. He also has like a very, very hard line on China. And I would feel better about his positions on China. He's like, yeah, Medes Sizhengeng, I really do hate him or something like that. I don't know. You know, it's informed from like a 30,000 foot view. Wait, Dario? Yeah, Dario's like... He worked it at Bidu.

Yeah, but since then, his positioning has been like, we got to win the race against China. We have to, you know, dismantle authoritarian regimes, et cetera. Maybe he looks, Xi Jinping in the eyes and it's the stare and it's like, oh, wow, I had you all wrong. You never know. Yeah. But I want to see the sit-down happen. Has the AI slop gone too far this time?

That's our third debate, the third debate that will shock you. So we can pull up this Kalshi ad. It's their latest direct-to-consumer, direct response. For everyone at home, this is a karaoke moment. Yeah. You're sitting in the office. This is going to be on the open floor plan. Don't be afraid to start singing.

Yeah, add it to the Spotify playlist. So Brian Pempis says, This Kalshi ad is among the most dystopian ones I've seen from any betting app. And you can sort of hear the AI song over the Pixar-inspired AI generis video. The lyrics are also odd, not to nitpick, but it says, like, he sends his girlfriend money, and then he's handing her money. Every month I send her money from groceries. So there's a lot of, like, it lacks the pocket.

polish that removes something from Slop. Every once in a while you see a video that is AI generated, but you're like, okay, there was enough attention to detail there. This was, let's just rip it. This is actually a popular format of AI swap that's been going very viral. It starts with a really dramatic hook. In this case, the man thinks his partner is having an affair. But actually, she's just hedging food prices on cow cheese.

Yeah. Because she has inside knowledge on the market from working at a bakery in the morning. Yeah. So that even though egg prices are going up, she's able to net out and remain even because she is profiting on trading the egg futures market on Kalshi. I don't know how deep the market is. I don't know how real those markets are. Do they really have egg futures markets on Kalshie now? That's kind of interesting.

I don't know if you can actually hedge your groceries. I want to see a version of this ad from the Chicago Board of Trade where she goes a lot further, gets a Bloomberg terminal, establishes it really. relationship with J.P. Morgan, Morgan Stanley. She's visiting the Chicago Board of Trade regularly, trading in size. She's talking to counterparties, Millennium, Citadel. You know, she's on the phone constantly moving huge volumes of commodity futures at scale, kind of elevating herself past just the prediction market small ball and getting into the big leagues. That's the future. Jane says, would you gather your girlfriend, insider trick, egg futures, or cheat on you? No, so this is not insider trade.

Like, you can actually do this. You can be a baker and realize that prices are going up and trade the commodities markets. In fact, the commodities markets are designed specifically to give that signal and that and that, that is the purpose. The purpose is to understand, okay, the weather is bad. People can trade that. Fundamentally, there's, there's no law against insider trading in commodity markets effectively, But there's a question of like, is this a consumer ready product?

Like, is this something that's someone who is maybe doesn't have, you know, a whole desk and a research team and a Bloomberg term. One interesting thing is I found egg prices up in September the market. Right now there's a 72% chance. Okay. But there's only $417 of volume. Yeah, but if you're only buying $20 of eggs, that's enough depth. So it is a viable use case.

It's not fraudulent. I think most people are responding to just like, the sloppiness and like the clickbaitiness of like the weird hook. My current concern about the state of the hyper casino that our world has turned into is that like as an adult I feel like confident in my own decision-making ability and the ability to see ads for gambling all the time everywhere and still make the call that's not for me. I'm not interested. You've never lost a dollar. I've tried.

One weekend. John got to witness me one weekend. I was like, look, I think I should, I think I should try this gambling thing. It seems super popular. I got to get to the bottom of it. I tried it. I'm running in the red. And this is generally true for being said, like, you know, you're stuck in your room.

As a 30-year-old, I've been advertised gambling products for a decade now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And my concern is that, well, adults have the ability to just make the decision, like, hey, this isn't for me. and you have like more. Yeah. If you start young, you're more likely to stick with it for a long. Yeah, but young people today are going to go through, that you're growing up on the internet,

are going to go through this just like, they will probably be served like a million gambling ads by the time they're 18. It's a lot. Yeah. And so, it's so normalized. It's so a part of society now.

It's instantly accessible. If you're getting advertised stuff like this, that's basically saying, like, you're sending this message that like this is your way out. The deep irony is like the way out is to not participate and be one of the people that makes it through without forming the addiction. Yeah. But maybe we need to rent a slop ad about that. We want to do a slop ad like this where it's the same premise.

Oh, I think my partner's having an affair. And lo and behold, they're just watching TBPN for three hours every day getting informed about technology and business news. What do you think about dopamine sites, though? Because dopamine sites, which is where... Explain this. Dopamine sites are fake shopping experiences. It's an e-commerce site where you can buy luxury goods, but you don't actually have to pay them and they don't arrive.

So this is from an article shared by Adonis on X. The final frontier of consumerism has arrived in South Korea. Quote, this week I placed orders for a $44,860-Petek-Philippe hand-engraved watch, a $12,500. Hermez bag, a $9,800 Tiffany Diamond ring. Cha-ching. I didn't realize that was the analog one. That's great.

And a $7,350 cardier love bracelet in yellow gold. I don't need any of them. I certainly can't afford them. Thankfully, they'll never arrive. Instead of Amazon, this individual spent the past week browsing a new breed of website known as dopamine sites, a trend that emerged in South Korea. these websites like dopamine shop and food never comes, recreate the entire ritual of online shopping. You search for products, compare reviews, add items to your cart, enter a shipping address, place an order, and even track your delivery.

But it's all imaginary. Is this not as bad as sports betting? Is this not bad at all? What is this? It's sort of strange and sad and a reflection of our society that, is so infatuated with pure consumption instead of creation. Yeah. And it's dystopian.

But I don't think it's... We should do a dopamine site for TBBN merge because you never sell it? He just didn't work on and create a cart. So our fourth debate, our fourth and final debate, to what degree is the AI build out driving interest rates upwards? People are going back and forth about this. Interest rates are spiking, specifically the 10-year yield has jumped. 12%, so it's actually, what is that, 1,200 basis points or something, because you're trying to,

you're trying to explain the move in the rate, so it's not that we're at 18%, we're at 5.18%, but we were, you know, down much lower in the fours earlier, and it's causing nervousness. You know, last time interest rates went up, the venture capital world collapsed, and nobody likes high mortgage rates. can you afford a home? There's a lot of knock-on effects. The vanilla explanation is just the Iran war was unexpected. It caused an energy crisis. That caused inflation. That caused interest rate hikes and expectations for future interest rate hikes, and thus, interest rates are higher. AI is important in driving the economy, but mainly a sideshow in this story around interest rate specifically. But in tech, there's a view that the data center debt is simply too good to resist.

And so the capital markets are flooding over there. But there's a lot of debate around this. So Roon said Iran oil prices is short-term driver, but broadly this is due to demand pressure from extremely attractive AI CAPEX opportunities that are borrowing at nation scale. They're certainly hoovering up trillions of dollars. I think the total data center, CAPEX, hyper-scaler debt is now almost 20% of what the U.S. government is buying something like that. No, so it's actually higher. I look this up. So basically, hyperscalor and NVIDIA, like, debt issuance

as a percentage of, like, total treasury bond issuance through 2026 has been like 70%. Whoa. So I think 2025 it was like around 30. Yes. And so Astrid Wilde says this is correct. Global yields will continue to go higher because why would you invest in literally anything other than data centers when they have such a short payback period? And you can throw tens of billions at it.

I mean, we saw ClusterMax 1, I think, had a few dozen neoclouds. Cluster Max 3, which we talked to Jordan Nannis about yesterday, had 326 neoclods. And they reviewed, I think, or they rated 200-something of them. And then that's not to mention that there are also data center construction projects from the actual hypers, the labs weren't on there. And then the chip companies, Jordan called out. He said like cerebrates will have a neocloud and positron and etched will have neoclods. And so there's going to be a lot more of this.

At the same time, there's the flip side of the argument. Deep Dish Enjutor says this is definitely currently not true. Those opportunities are not riskless. And importantly, you can't use private illiquid AI CAPEX as collateral. So if you're a bond investor and you're looking at two different markets, Are you really shifting out of government treasuries that are historically the risk-free rate, that they have a monopoly on violence, they have the ability to tax their citizens to pay back the debt? A neocloud that's doing a data center, if they go bankrupt, you might actually suffer a capital impairment

and get back 70 cents in the dollar, maybe 90 cents on the dollar. So it stands to reason that there is more risk associated with the AI buildout, and so they're not completely apples to apples, but I still think that there's probably, some sort of effect here. He said it's true that as real GDP growth increases substantially, rates should rise, though, but we aren't there yet. Colin Roche has lots of scary talk in bonds these days, but it's mostly recency bias since 1960, the 10 years average 5.8 percent. We're at 5 percent below average. If you'd fallen asleep 20 years ago and woke up today, you'd think nothing happened in the

bond market the entire time. Ignore all the sovereign debt crisis talk, inflation expectations, adjusting to something more historically normalized. Carry on. Carry on. So the Walter Journal is is sort of putting the higher bond yields in context, saying the robust U.S. economy powers through rate hikes and rising bond yields. The U.S. economy keeps powering through inflation, tariffs, and higher borrowing costs, defying a run-up in treasury yields, and a Fed rate increase that has the bond market spooked. The usual economic breaks aren't sluiting. The usual economic breaks aren't slowing growth, hiring, or an AI investment boom that looks to be unstoppable. To some, AI's potential return seems so bright that even steep interest rates won't slow down

tech companies' investments. And it does seem like the math on the AI buildout is wildly different. I was talking to somebody who was saying, like, he knows a lot of people that are falling in love with the spreadsheet. And so they want to start neoclods and data centers because the payback period is shorter. I also saw an Instagram sort of like course hustler talking about how he bought a bunch of GPUs and is renting them to a data center and saw that as an attractive opportunity, a la like, oh, I bought a multifamily apartment complex.

You must have watched the Dylan Patel interview, the recent DoorCash one. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, this is all related to that, for sure. And also a lot of the AI build out, a lot of the AI companies were very much born in the era of higher interest rates. I do believe that if you're a software company trading at 100x revenue multiple, and you weren't forecasting real earnings for 10 years or something like that,

like the traditional SaaS playbook, and interest rates go from zero to four percent, that's a lot more damaging than, okay, you were already born in the era of higher interest rates, and interest rates go from four to six percent or something. It's just not going to move the needle in the DCF that much, because, like, you were already discounting cash flows in the future, 4%, and so as opposed to zero, you're basically counting future cash flows as today's dollars. So anyway, that's the take from the Wall Street Journal. America's newest trophy asset is a country home in the Cotswolds.

Cotswolds can never pronounce that properly. Harry and Megan's return to the UK has put the region in the spotlight at bevy of U.S. buyers are looking for homes in the area. Not very American to buy or invest out here. Strange to see that it's becoming a sort of an American investment trend. Well, everyone saw what Paul Graham did. and they said, I want to be like that. That's right.

I want to putter. Are you interested? Absolutely not. Yeah. Next story. Next story. A modern home in Silicon Valley, though, lists for 44 million,

sort of the Cotswolds of America, Silicon Valley, five-bedroom house, which features four distinct courtyards of pool and is the most expensive listing in Palo Alto, California. Now, I want to do a little tier list. As I read you,

the various features, I want you to put them in buckets from F tier to S tier. So I'll read through the article and I want you to quickly assign each feature of this $44 million Palo Alto home, a tier. So for years, tech entrepreneur Asher Wald Fogel and his wife, Helen McLean, dreamed of building a modern house in Palo Alto. The couple, however, worried about clashing with the Mediterranean style architecture typically associated with their neighborhood of old Palo Alto. So they tapped an architect to design a home that paid homage to its surroundings with stucco, mahogany, and titanium zinc plating. Where does titanium zinc plating go for you?

Take it off. You like it? A tier? A tier. Okay. We're leaving some room for an even better feature. They spent $20 million over several years barely in the house, completed in 2005. So now, looking to be closer to their adult daughter on the East Coast,

they are putting the five-bedroom home on the market for $44 million. The couple purchased the roughly 0.4 acre site in terms of lot size. Where are you putting 0.4 acres? Is that enough? F tier. F tier. Wow. Okay, you need at least 30 acres to really make a splash and earn S tier.

They demolished the circa 1930s Spanish colonial home, the house they built pinwheels around a central staircase. What do you think about houses that pinwheel around central staircases? I like classic California one-story ranch-style homes. You don't want a staircase at all. Because the alternative is two staircases. You have a front staircase, a main entryway, and then a back staircase. This is a central staircase, but you're in-staircase, guys. So where is in-wheeling around?

Once the kids are older, then you introduce the staircase. I could explore it, but for now I'm putting it. Staircases in general going in D-tier. D-tier. Okay. Staircases are out. It has 7,900 square feet of livable space. Where does that go?

Split across multiple floors. I'm going B tier. B tier, okay. Four distinct courtyards. Are you a courtyard guy? Problem with courtyards is like they're very cool in theory, but how often are you actually like, it's really just like a feature that goes unused?

Sure, sure. I feel like the average courtyard gets like five, minutes of someone's time annually. So I'm hearing like a C tier? D tier. D tier. B brutal for the four courtyards. What about the pool? It's got a pool. Where are pools for you? Pools are still underrated. Okay. So what tier? A lot of people would say pools properly rated. Everyone thinks they're great. I think they're better than the average person thinks of pool. I'm hearing S tier. Pool is S tier. Okay. We need to. I want to see what the pool looks like. A key feature of the home is a cast-in-place concrete wall or spine.

Do you like a spine in your house? Concrete wall. Two stories high, 80 feet long. There's a little bit of chaos. I like it. I like it. Some sort of a continuous theme through the home. I'm into it.

B-tier? B-tier. Okay. He said his wife and him are thinking of the next phase of life. They also have a home in Sun Valley, Idaho. S-tier. Second home in Sun Valley is S-tier. Okay.

Right now, they're trying to emotionally let go and decide what to do next. Palo Alto is the center of venture capital and tech startups in Silicon Valley, home to some of the country's biggest tech titans. Sales volumes and prices are rising with a median sale price of $3.5 million for the three months ending in August, up 5.8 percent year. Yeah, it's tough to get excited about this home in L.A. This is like a probably $12 million home depending on where it's located. But over there.

It's but over there. Apparently it's S-tier. Yeah. Apparently it's S-tier. We'll see you Monday, folks. See you. Goodbye.