TBPN - FULL INTERVIEW: Doug O'Laughlin Thinks Microsoft is OUT of the AI Race

Episode Date: February 6, 2026

This is our full interview with Doug O'Laughlin, recorded live on TBPN.We discuss why Claude Code feels like a true inflection point, how agent swarms and orchestration could replace large parts of today’s SaaS stack, hyperscaler capex, Nvidia supply constraints, and why knowledge work is about to change faster than most people expect.TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays from 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with full episodes posted to podcast platforms immediately after.Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” TBPN has recently featured Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella.

Welcome to the stream, Doug. How are you doing? I'm doing wonderful. How are you guys doing? Great to see you. Can we pull up the video that you, that John painstakingly made this morning that completely, that completely flawed? I'm very excited to have you on the show. It feels like that scene in Sonic the Hedgehog 3, which I saw where Sonic and Shadow team up and join forces to talk about CapEx and agentic coding. What's new in your world? Is is Claude still the top of? mind or are you still churning through the KAPX numbers from earnings? Are you somewhat of an agent for Klaude now? Like you work for Klaude? I do, actually. I think I mostly just move my information back and forth, you know?

I have pretty much, like, I think of it as my manager, you know? Like, it tells me what to do. And then I go bring the information and I bring to my coworkers, I bring it back. All day, I'm just on Klaude code. How many, how many prompts are you running right now? Do you have any threads going? Okay, so, I have, I have seven, I have seven threads. Seven that are running right now or, or waiting for your input?

I'm waiting, waiting for my input. We'll let you get back to it. Why don't you just have an eighth that just managed? Let's talk about, yeah, orchestration. Have you played with Gastown? Are you thinking about abstracting yourself to a higher level? Okay, so Gastown is, it's pretty intense. I don't think gas and it's going to work out.

I think it's going to be agent swarms. Okay. Okay, explain the difference between Gastown and Agent Swarms. Okay, so Gastown is probably of the most forward-looking thing I've read in a lot. It talks about how you, like, created this, like, self-healing tool process to essentially to, like, pass all these beads across and have, like, all these workers and, like, ways to self-repair the agent work flow process. And I read it and I was like, dude, this is brilliant and also fucking crazy. It's like, it feels like a ravings of a badman. And then I proceeded, well, I was

also in my badman era. Like before the New Year's, when you had two times usage, I pretty much was like literally railing quad code constantly. I think I had, I think I had four 14 hour days. Wow. Yeah, it was beautiful. It was beautiful. Okay. So, talk. So, Talk to us about what you're actually building because, you know, we're talking about SaaS Apocalypse. It feels like there's a debate over build, rebuild all your tools from scratch to save whatever your SaaS fees are. Yeah, and even yesterday was notable.

Open AI comes out with Frontier, which is you look at like that you got to look at this like graphic which feels like it was made for, you know, a Fortune 500 CEO to kind of, or management team to kind of understand it. And it's like, here's more SaaS to replace your other. SaaS, right? It's like, you know, you've got the system of record down here. You have a bunch of agents in between, and then you've got different applications that you're using. And meanwhile, Anthropics, just like, we're making a really smart digital guy that can do whatever you want. Yeah, so I think the two, there's like two really interesting ways. I think opening eyes like the Fortune 500,

selling it from the top, if it makes sense. And then Anthropic is like, here's my, here's your Quad Code agent, sell 20,000 of them. Did you see the, like, you see the, in the Ascensure partnership, I think that's really interesting. So, like, if you're, if you go back, uh, there's, they're doing 30,000 people at Ascensure. What do you mean? To like 30,000 people at Accenture are going to learn how to quad code. Oh.

And then that's, and then they're deployed into different companies. Yeah. Who knows? Who knows? What else would they do? Maybe they just replace the century. I mean, that's what they're going to be doing, I think. Okay.

Wait. So, yeah. So what do you mean if Accenture folks are using Cloud Code, wouldn't they be using it on consulting projects internally to companies? I think they're going to be using it internally as much. So they're going to be using internally and then they're going to be doing all these consulting things. Because if you think about it, one of the issues is like, you know, when you had SaaS, one of the biggest issues of like changing from one CRM to another was effectively being like, hey, everyone, you're going to have to quit your jobs for like 10 months to figure this out. The implementation, you'd have tons and tons of consultants do that. And I think that that's what the Ascensure partnership is.

So essentially, like, people are going to be implementing Claude Code, and there's 30,000 people at Ascure who's going to do it. And then on the other side, you have Frontier, which is like the Fortune 500 way of being like, here's your plan, come to us, and we'll build this whole thing, blah, blah, blah. So, yeah. But is re-implementing your CRM really the lowest-hanging fruit for America's greatest companies?

It can't possibly. There must be new ideas, new problems to solve, new tools to build. Like, why are we just going to shuffle the chips around the board instead of like doing doing something productive? Okay, so I think the system of record refresh is going to be really awesome because, you know, like the big, I mean, it honestly does feel kind of boomer. If you think about it, it's like the biggest data now. Everyone can have the big data now.

But I think the automation that you've always dreamed of is actually going to have. And the system of record is just going to essentially have hooks out to all these other things that are going to build on top of it, which is mostly like, you know, the frontier thing. Yeah. And essentially, like, all the information work is just going to be, like, all on the agent and everything else is going to be, like, place where it lives and is stored for funcies. So instead of me having someone, let me use my personal stack at Semianysis. We's HubSpot, for example. Sure. So, hey, the sales this quarter, we need this, like, quota, or who did it?

what or what products are selling better or like, you know, what's... How many more podcasts should Dylan do this month if we want to hit our goal? That's totally different. We don't actually have like our like, you know, the big, yeah, sure. How many more podcasts? Shit like that. Right. I could just vibe code it. I was just like, hey, can you run this analysis for me? And in a perfect futuristic world, it'll go into the CRM, pull all the information of all of our in balance, make it be like, hey, the day after Dylan goes on a podcast, there's like 25 people who come in. The conversion rate is X. You could price it at this. Dylan, quit your, you know, stop working and effectively just like hit the podcast. There we go.

You know, like, yeah, yeah, exactly. So, so you could do this with anything, though. Like, just information, man. Like, it's, it's, it's going to be pretty sick. But I think all the SaaS companies are going to essentially just become hooks for all the crap they've built on top of it. Yeah. Yeah. Did you see Jensen yesterday was kind of defending some companies like SAP in service now and saying, hey, if I was a really smart humanoid out doing work in the world and I needed a screwdriver, would I just invent a new screwdriver, or would I just take one off the shelf? And so that was like his defense. Tyler here took the other side of it and just said there's going to be a lot of situations

where, especially in a software-only environment, it's easier to just build a very specific workflow that you need that you would have gotten from a SaaS provider versus you know you don't need to actually rebuild the entire platform. Yeah, I think we're going to be building a lot of screwdrivers. Like things like the thing that's important is like, okay, you're not going to rent a truck, right? Like you're not going to build your own truck,

but your own screwdriver 100%. Like you're doing this big, ginormous job. You need a hammer. You're like, okay, pull it out of my belt, okay? But you're not going to be like, I'm not to move 700 tons of like here to here. I need to rent a truck. You're not going to build the truck.

And so that's what I think the system of records are going to look like. They're going to look like places where like actual data that cannot be like, like cannot be vibed effectively. Like what's your inventory? Cannot have any fucking hallucinations. Right. Like your ERP. But all of that will just be hooks for everything else.

Because like all the information is just like polling, retrieving, making the correlation, running the charts. Like, people make things and that all the time. But then how do you square the fact that a system of record is way less sticky if you have agents that can work around the clock to switch you over to a different system of record? Like that still ends up putting massive pricing pressure.

So to be clear, I don't think it's good for everyone. Like, I think my favorite analogy of this is like there actually is a very old school type of software that's like existed for a long time. all the shit on mainframes. It's all out there. Yeah. And you know, like, funny enough, mainframe still grew like 6% a year or whatever. Someone has the real number for like 2002 to 2020.

It's crazy. So like they're going to grow, but it's just going to be like a very different vision of the world that I don't think people are ready for. And the adjustment period is the big problem because all the stocks are priced like they're not going to be mainframes. And and also just for context, mainframe. frames, there's like, hey, there's one of each company now. Yeah. There's not, there's not like 10. Yep.

Just one each. Yeah. So I think with all these, all these, whether you're a system of record or your, you know, some vertical software, you're going to need to show insane revenue growth in a truly AI native product. Otherwise, investors, I think, are going to continue to not be able to create a super compelling narrative, why you should own it during this period of uncertainty. Yeah.

I mean, pretty much what happens, and we're going to go like investor brain, when anything goes X growth, the multiple goes massively down. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Eight times earnings. Can you talk a little bit more about what you're actually coding, what you're building, like what the software is? Because from the demos that I've seen that you've posted, it feels much more like you have an agent that can do knowledge retrieval, data transformation, build dashboards, charts, and knowledge work as opposed. opposed to truly replacing software tools at this point. But have you built anything that's like long lived and runs like daily or is like something that you keep revisiting because it's now a piece of software that does a job.

So the cod code commits, the cod code commits is now software that lives and runs every single day. Okay. That's like a scraper, right? And then like that, that like lives in a database and that will run forever. There's like a lot of other tracking price data tool stuff. Like a lot of the scraping that we're like that is not like publicly available. Like we do like a lot of that.

Like we had a data team just do that. And now effectively we can like really accelerate that. So everyone can do that. Sure, sure. There are other like little things that I think are like heuristics. Like little skills of like I have blind spots that I consistently make over and over. And I'm like, hey, I know this blind spot's an issue. But blah, you should like consider this in this case.

I don't think it's like the galaxy brains. software and we're very far from there because if you actually play with these tools a lot, context rod is real. Yeah. So. But how fast is it getting better? Because it feels like we're seeing the meter graph. Scary fast. Scary fast. So I started vibe coding with Claude 4. Yeah. And it just wasn't, or sorry, Opus 4 on Cloud Code. And it just could not one-shot websites in the way that 4.5 and 4.6 can. And if it just marginally improves from here, it feels like why would I pay for like any kind of UI, Ux, if it just could be generated at a good enough quality? Yeah.

How did you process the new models this week, 4-6, 5-3? What's the review? If you can't immediately notice the difference between 4-5 and 4-6, start polishing your resume. You are cooked. Yeah. Yeah, you just got automated by an agent. I think 4-6 was a little disappointing, if we're honest with you. I think it might have been Sonnet 5.

Oh, that's what people are saying. That's the conspiracy theory, right? But what does that mean? The original Sonat 5 leaks were that it's like as good as Opus 4.5, but with one million context window. And specifically trained for Asian Swarm. Sure. So, yeah, but practically does it just mean like same quality, but faster, cheaper, at least for an topic? And then they make more money.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, better margins. How are the margins looking for the labs right now? There was a bunch of like fud around it, but it seems like from all the leaks, it's been like 50, 60, 70 percent, pretty good. Yeah, if you X all the free users, it's always really good, right? Honestly, Anthropic has no free users or like on a relative basis. So their margins are ironically like, kind of on a like-to-like basis kind of not as good as you think. Yeah. Can you break down a little bit more of the thesis of the Claude Code is an inflection point article, what the key takeaway, who you're speaking to, what update you wanted to share,

and then I want to go into some of the pushback and your response to that. Yeah, sure. So first, I think the thing that makes me really excited is the first time since Shana thought, I feel like we have a new scaling that feels very, very different and hardcore, and I can actually see my entire life day-to-day change. I think I can expect some version of a cloud code harness to be effectively all my information work from now till the future. I am a daily user. I was not a daily use before.

and I expect to continue to be one. And that's kind of what happened with the reasoning models. It went from like, you could ask it stuff, but it might hallucinate to like the answers are good. Like you can pretty much rely. And there's going to be citations and like it's going to be 99.999% like like usable for things. So you just have a question.

You get that. It may be not great at certain things, but in general, like it delivered on the initial like chat experience that I think a lot of people were looking for. And then they became de-reuse. Yeah. How much do you think Anthropic cares more about winning in consumer than they've let on to date? No, I don't think so.

Everyone who works there is exactly like what you think it is. They're exactly who they say they are. Yeah. Their software is singularity pilled. Yeah, and then I think co-work is what they're really excited about. Sure, makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, what was this push back? So they're not even, they're not even thinking about a scenario where a bunch of people

are using Claude in a work setting and say, hey, this is pretty great. And yeah, Chad Chatt ChbD has ads. I'm happy to pay $20 a month. I'll use it personally. Because I just think there's like an iPhone, like I think the game to get to like three billion users is like over when you just look at the traction of like Gemini and Chats Chb-T and the fact that normal people aren't caring that much about the nuance. that don't have that much to automate in their life, but there's like an iPhone-sized market.

Like the iPhone wasn't the first smartphone to launch. And it's possible, like, when I see this, like, when I see this like the Super Bowl ad, the sort of like trust nuke, I was calling it, right? Just like, hey, like, it's really funny. They're like, you know, rage-vading Open AI, but at the same time they're just destroying, like, trust around ads and LMs, potentially, like, permanently, right? because people, even when they start seeing ads that are more like display ads, they'll start thinking, well, like, was the result influence too? You know, it just like, it hurts the trust. And so I think there, I think, my, my theory is that any product that, like, really catches on in the workplace could very well trickle over into life. And Anthropic could someday have a pretty big, you know, they could have like a Netflix-sized subscriber base for people that just want an ad-free AI experience.

Yeah, that sounds completely right to me. But your point is like it's just secondary to them. They're like it's a nice to have, but like we don't. That's not our intention. I think, okay, so singularity pill, but I also think you have to pay for the singularity and I think it's going to be enterprise that does it. Makes sense. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, the other take on like you could wind up being like the Apple and like the premium, you know, privacy focused or you could wind up being like the duck, go, which was like, yeah, yeah, it was a counter to Google, but it never got to any meaningful scale. Yeah, but I still think, I still think opening eyes the Apple, like Apple was synonymous with smartphones when it really took off. Like, like, what is the other smartphone? Nokia. Yeah. Maybe you can argue this is like a Blackberry. Yeah, I can't name it, yeah. Well, like Blackberry, right? It was known for work. Yeah. And then obviously like a swap

So I still think OpenAI is like the cognitive referent. And honestly, 5.3 cooks. Yeah. Faster or just better or both? Faster and better. Faster and better. Okay, talk about 5.2 token efficiency. Rune was pushing back on the article saying you're making the assertion that 5.2 token efficiency

ruins long horizon planning and yet 5.2 tops the meter chart for long horizon planning, half baked. What's the explanation there? Didn't someone completely mock that argument, but he's kind of a, he's like, sorry, I gotta find the guy. But it's like, I don't know what task is being done here. Like, is art, are they the same hardness? Yes. Did you just spam it to infinity and like you finish like a sufficiently long task to completion? Versus like, okay, let's just say we have two kids taking the SAT and one doesn't,

a better job and finishes first and one does like almost as good of a job and took seven times as long and you're like wow that one's a smart kid yeah no dude that doesn't make any sense yeah yeah yeah an elegant solution delivered faster is uniformly better yeah 100% that makes sense yeah and so if you spam more tokens like and you're like oh look I mobbed them and it's like dude what if you just use less tokens I think the benchmark is supposed to be for for They have a reference class of projects that are supposed to take X amount of time. They would take a human developer six hours. And then they have all the models compete.

And if you can compete the six hour task, then you get put at the six hour mark. It's not, did you run for six hours? So it could be like implement a CRM product or write a very complicated database or something. it would take, you know, a talented software developer, six hours, two hours, one hour, and they have different tasks, and then you're trying to climb that hurdle. Oh, yeah, and then it's, okay, it climbs higher and higher. I think, I think that's loosely. It's, because obviously you could just say, okay, just reasoning, count to one billion

and just go as slow as, and it works for days, and that's not impressive. But that's not how it works. Yeah, I mean, it's, okay, so yeah, you're right, the different, the scaling thing, but like, okay, so one, the other thing I was doing, like, now that we have, vibe coding available to everyone, you can just have it do the same task and do like ABC. Like I've been doing like a lot of internal benchmarking. Like everyone could benchmark guys. Like um, dude codex 5.2 took so long and just never build for me. Oh interesting. And it's like all the codex hype during like it just never worked for me, man.

Like it never one shot projects like Opus 4.5 did. And I'm just like this feels like complete foot. But that being said, Codex 5.3 cooks. Like yeah, I think I take everything back about about 5.2 for 5.3. Nice. Total reversal. Classic AI narrative, just day by day, complete switching of the narrative.

Talk about the NPM downloads, because you said that you're now scraping them every day trying to understand how many commits on GitHub are related to Clod Code and the pushback from Roon was that this counts NPM downloads is authoritative when Claude Code numbers are hugely inflated because GitHub actions

does automatic Claude Code download every time continuous integration CI runs versus Codex compute cloud. So maybe it's not apples to apples. What's more nuance on the fast takeoff of cloud code? Because honestly, when you said 20% of commits by the end of the year, I was like, that feels extremely low. I would expect like 70% and I would expect codex to be at 30% and no more human commits because it's working.

So I wanted to make sure we have like a high standard, like a high 95% plus. Sure. I don't think, like, sure, if it continues to grow on a week-on-week basis, like, yeah, it's, like, you know, 100% by June or something like that. Well, there's also the fact that, like, you could be writing code and still just, like, almost be using cloud code as, like, your linter, or, like, your interface to GitHub. And if there's an abstraction layer there that people adopt, you're going to see the commits go through the roof, even if there's still a human in the loop meaningfully. Look, look, look. Yeah. I'm not going to pretend, like, the cloud code commits thing is, like, the cleanest way ever. There's a lot of ways there's a lot of ways to fuck the data for example people who use who you could just say don't do this

Yeah, and won't do it number two like private on a ratio is like five times bigger sure that matters way more Yep, and then like I also think that like the way you consume it like this doesn't count for cursor People have been clearly you using AI for like a long while it doesn't show up Yeah, this is just the example I can like say it's like hey chart goes up really quickly yeah yeah yeah yeah Yeah, it's still cool. It's not perfect. Yeah. It's a data set that I create in a relatively short amount of time.

Yeah, yeah. I'm like, well, I don't know. Seems pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah, no, it is. Are we talking about Amazon? Yeah, yeah. Let's move over to hyperscalers.

Reaction was the number too low. Yeah. Yeah. They're not taking it seriously. Yeah. Two million was crazy. Yeah. That was crazy to me.

Okay. Why? Yeah, that was really shocking. You know, we do a lot of data center tracking and we do a lot of accelerated tracking. and we were two-up. Okay, are they trying to play some sort of hype game where they're throwing out the biggest number and they're not actually even going to be able to buy

enough equipment to spend it, even if they are signaling to the market, we're going to be hearing like, well, we wanted to buy this many NVIDIA chips, but we couldn't get them, or we have a delay at this data center because of regulation. And so they're just trying to project strength because they're sort of behind on the AI narrative a little bit.

They don't have the big position that Microsoft does in Open AI. They don't have, you know, a deep mind level team. And so they're saying, we're going to go biggest on the dollar front, but then maybe they don't deliver on it? Or do you think at the end of the year we'll be like, yeah, they spent $200 billion? I think at the end of the year, they're going to be like, yeah, they spent $200 billion. Let's go. They are the single biggest provider of power in the entire world, I think.

Like the incremental and the AWS. like supply chain can ramp a lot quicker than anyone else. And every example that we track in the data center, like the data center team, they are on time and can scale to like levels that are crazy. Yeah. Like Reneers ramp is just like out of this world fast compared to everyone else.

Every other gigawatt project is essentially delayed and they're gonna be like is on time. Wow. So isn't that extremely just like good for Amazon? Like they're properly positioned, they're properly transitioning, like they, yeah, Yeah, like, who knows what happens to the rest of this. But eventually this thing is just like part of the...

We were talking earlier. Like, Jassy didn't exactly paint this, like, incredibly exciting vision and share, like, hey, you guys are actually underestimating demand. Still, even if you're bullish on AI, you're underestimating demand. And we're in a position to actually try to get a more accurate read here. And that's why we're investing. Yeah. And it's funny because they could have said one thing that would have made the ATABUS call,

better and they'd be like, yeah, we see high 20s and like the stock would have ripped. But they're like, we continue to project to see this level of growth. What percentage of the 200 billion do you think will actually flow to Nvidia? Because Nvidia is rallying today. That's why we're wearing white suits, but it didn't rally immediately in after hours. I think a meaningful amount. I definitely cannot disclose what semi-analysis thinks.

But I think they're going to run out of Traneum. And the answer is, like, what's the biggest amount of supply chain that's, like, locked up? It's, it's infidia. Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. Can you get Macron a free semi-analysis plan? Because he came out this week with his big new initiative, 30 million euros for AI research.

France is going to be the home of research. How do you think all the hyperskows will respond? You know what's crazy is people have been trying to do a lot of work in France for a long time because they have this giant nuclear power plant. Yeah, it's kind of stranded. And no one uses it. And like everyone wants to be like, dude, I can get a gigaw out here. And then they like try to start building. And they're just like, yeah, this is never going to happen.

I'm just going to go back to United States. Even though United States is like all fucked up is like, I can start there. And they're like, no, no, no, no, we'll start in like five years. Yeah. And I can think of two specific projects that essentially did the same thing. It was like, oh, my God, all this France status center power. And then, like, they started and like, never mind. Yeah.

That's funny. No. Why do you think GROC is climbing the charts right now? Any insight? It's like number three after get free cash and after chat GPT in the overall app store. The iOS app store. Dude, actually, one, this tells you how locked in I've been with cloud code. I had no idea.

You're so locked in with Claude researching the AI race that you... It's just interesting. You know, the app store is based on acceleration, but, you know, the GROC hype cycle of like, you know, let's push all the Twitter users or the X users there. Like that sort of already happened. Like, I don't know how this is happening because there isn't much hype about the model. And it's happening. Yeah, and a lot of people were like, yeah, like you can talk to Ani and Valentine, but like is that really popular? There might be.

Any singularity. The real singular is lonely people. Oh, my God. Maybe. I did see a video of like the Stormlight Archive thing and that I feel like hit a broader audience in terms of video generation. And I think video generation like that always kind of wins. We actually did an analysis. Yeah, which is why you need to be bullish on the Disney Open AI deal.

I think so. Yeah, you have to be. We've seen. We've seen the nano-banana bump with Gemini. Yep. And this feels like it could be on an entirely different level. Yeah. You know, my favorite thing is Gemini wasn't what actually, like, made it rip.

It was banana. Yeah. Like the ratio, like, to really improve in terms of open AI to Gemini, like, way before. And then, like, Gemini, like, slightly helped, but I would say it's, like, 90% is banana-bonana. No, no, no. But Doug in a bikini. You can, yeah, you can just share an image and it's immediately apparent what is going on as a unique capability that you can't get anywhere else. They've cornered the market, specifically on like the image editing, not just the diffusion, but the like being able to take a photo, change the background and have it actually look like your face or have the text look great.

Like it was, it was a unique, unique product really beyond a model. Yeah. Oh, this is, by the way, this is my final steaming hot take and cod code. The reason why you should actually pay attention so much. much because this is the first time, like image models essentially always gain share, video models always gain share, like studio Ghibli moment, and then obviously chat to BT. This is the first like new moment. Yeah.

It's a new modality being the agent and it's like actually kicking off. Yeah. I mean, how important do you think the co-work, like a desktop app mobile functionality is to that? Because like the, you can have, you can have truly magic. Chat has some insight. A lot of people using garage. video to compete for a $1 million content. Oh, that's right.

It's free money. Free money. You have to. Free money. Okay. Yeah, so it's free cash and then free money. The top two apps and the top three give you cash. That is a good fact check.

Thank you, chat. But yeah, my question about like, like, can you have a Studio Ghibli like moment if you have to open up a terminal just because there are so many normies that just will never open the terminal, no matter how magical the, you know, AI God is behind the, you know, you know, a. God is behind the terminal. It's just too much to go type one line of command. That's why cowork and Codex are going to probably be what actually happens. I think it's really fun to play around in the like whatever 1% adopter. And I'm really enjoying it.

But I just don't think like like yeah, it's going to be coworker codex. And Codex is actually pretty good. Codex is I think a slightly more polished experience than coworker. Yeah. Last question for me. Take me on the journey of what's going on. with Microsoft, what you predicted, how that's changed, how their strategy has changed. Like, give me the proper way to understand Microsoft these days.

Yeah, Microsoft's not in the race, bro. Why? Where are they? I know, but they're getting owned. They have all of the IP. I agree with you. I don't understand why it's not like, oh, 5.3 launches, Microsoft's announcing it the same day, and it's actually integrated and people are using it, like, on day one.

It takes time. It's a skill issue. Yeah. It's clearly something's going on. And honestly, the thing that makes me most bearish that is the fact that Satya is like, I'm not the CEO, I'm the product manager of co-pilot because I'm so boned if I don't get this figured out. Yeah. Like you can argue it is the most, it is now existential.

He's decided like, hey, my CEO job is getting this one thing right. Otherwise we're screwed. And that is kind of worrying. It does feel like they could potentially, it feels like Google all over again. The pullback at the beginning of last year, kind of the quick pause, is now looking silly in the context of Amazon coming in now and saying,

yeah, everybody's on board now. We'll see. Yeah, we'll see. I think they have the most to lose. What about GPU utilization? Brad Gersner was hosting CNBC today, which was very cool, and talking about how in the dot-com, build out the dark fiber.

It was something only like 7% of fiber that was being laid was actually being used. It was like obvious even at the time that and yet now we're seeing GPU utilization rates maxed out. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a pretty good counterpoint. Anyone who's like, ah, whatever, like at this point,

H-100 pricing has massively affirmed up. B-200 pricing definitely. has super ferved up. And like, hey, there's clearly demand. I mean, you know, whatever they're doing on the other side of it, that's like, that's the customer's issues. But, like, I mean, I still think, like, honestly, man, the codex, or sorry, my brain's all messed up.

Claude code has been the most magical moment in technology for me in, like, my entire time, I think. It just feels awesome, man. Since the Game Boy. Dude, this is better than Game Boy is for me. I'm an information addict, though. Yeah, makes sense. I am.

So, well, we appreciate you taking the time to come chat with us and writing about it and everything that you do. If you're listening, go hop on semi-analysis. Sign up for the $10 million a year plan. You get Doug's phone number. You can text him. You actually can, actually. Yeah. I know, I know.

You should just do it, though. I mean, and it's under price. You're giving it away. It's taking away your time from all your different agents. So you've got to price it. Yeah, you're right. That's right. You know, my manager will hate that.

Have a good rest of your day. Great to see you, Doug. Day. Have a good weekend. We'll talk to you soon.