TBPN - Hereticon, Blood Boys, Hypercar Suggestions, What really is ESG?

Episode Date: November 2, 2024

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Welcome to Technology Brothers, the most profitable podcast in the world. Jordan and I just got back from Hereticon in Miami. We want to do an overview, a deep dive. When did you actually get in to Miami? Got in Monday, got back yesterday. Pretty short. Apparently the World Series happened. There was 100,000 people on the streets outside of the studio today.

Yeah. And not even they could stop us from recording today. Nothing can stop us. It was like a crazy time for stuff happening. and I was completely disconnected from it. Like I didn't see anything about the World Series. I didn't know the World Series. Did you see what happened in the stock market while we were there?

Like everything ripped. Bitcoin went above 70K. And then as soon as Herodicon was over, everything crashed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Classic. It was like the vibes. We were just like summoning all the capital allocators together in Miami, partying away from their terminal.

When people just get offline, like good things happen? No one can sell. Yeah. All the biggest hitters were there and they were all drinking and partying so they couldn't sell. So the market just ripped. And then they got back and they were hung over and they were like, actually I needed to hedge. Hedge, hedge.

Worse, worse, worse. What was your favorite, like, moment? Did you come away, like, with any, like, interesting takes? The main thing for me was that at the first Redicon that we, there were some alien stuff, and I didn't really buy it. I'm buddies with Jesse Michaels, who's, like, the main aliens guy, and he hosted a talk with this guy, Carl Nell, who I think is going to be, like, really, really big soon, like, Joe Rogan soon.

And it materially updated my, like, expected value of aliens being real. Yeah. Now, I probably went from like 3% to 10%, but it was good, mostly just because the guy that Jesse brought, this guy Carl Nell,

he speaks, he's not like the strung out hippie burner guy being like, oh yeah, I saw some stuff. And it's like, okay, you were probably on drugs

and that happened. He's like straight up, they test for, in the government, like in his like, in his like world, they test even for like ibuprofen because it's like you have the button,

you have your finger on the button, like the nuclear button. So they need to know everything. So these people aren't on drugs. And then he puts things in terms that I think tech people and skeptics like me can understand and actually open things up. Because like the classic like tech person defense of like aliens aren't real is just like, well, we're listening. We have the SETI project and it's quiet. Like there's no one's broadcasting.

And we're broadcasting, right? But his point is that actually the SETI program does not broadcast. Yeah. We assume that we would broadcast because we broadcast television. Like I love Lucy. I love Lucy once we got to like the 50s, I think. We started broadcasting with these really high-powered satellites or these dishes. They go out and they should be bindable in deep space.

And so you would assume that, you know, aliens really far away, they got I Love Lucy, you know, a million years ago and we should be able to get this. But his point is that we have actually, humans on Earth have stopped broadcasting because we switch to using fiber and satellites. That's a perfect show to send up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we should broadcast. We should do that.

Even though everyone gets it over the internet, which is fiber and Starlink and satellite internet. And the satellite's point in order. Yeah. That would be so traumatizing. Yeah. Yeah. They're like, the aliens are listening.

They're like, what about the timeline? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he was good at like bridging from like the dark forest and then providing a bunch of evidence. And so Jesse is like very convinced now. And I think it's good. And he's also like super straight edge now.

So that makes me believe it more. Yeah, that I feel like we were trying to be cognizant of that with our talk of like dressing nicely. anybody that wasn't there, our talk was on, you know, the case for performance drug use in Silicon Valley. And so doing any type of talk about drugs, we wanted to make sure that we, like, looked, you know, presentable. Yeah. And I think we did.

Yeah. I think we were probably the best dressed people that day. Yeah. I mean, the whole thesis was like, we need to go back to the Mad Men era of the 1950s, where there were an intense amount of neutropics consumed. Alcohol was drank at work. One way to work. Caffeine was drank at work. They were smoking using nicotine.

constantly in the office. And now we've turned, like all of technology has turned into like, oh, like you need like some stack. It's a new tropic. It's like, no, it's just a drug and it's cool to use it at work.

Yeah, you basically want to short the companies where the founder is like even thinking about what their stack is versus the founder that's just like flow state ingesting. But yeah, I guess two things that stood out that were interesting. The talk that most stood out to me was,

I mean, there was a lot. I wouldn't say it was the one that stood out the most, but it was the one that I think would be interesting to listeners. So Brian Johnson gave his like don't die speech and talk. I think the thing for me was realizing that he puts so much content out there about like his, you know, basically his like penis, right? Because it's like the perfect like viral thing. Viral thing. But there is an extreme level of debt. depth to death. No, extreme level of depth to what he's talking about.

And I think it's a lot more interesting than just the surface level like billionaire spending money on his health. One thing that I think the audience reaction that was interesting, I think like 50% of people were like, this is super cool. I'm going to download the app. 50% of people were this is a death cult of the 20, you know, of the 20. of the 21st century. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like this guy, every single person that's ever had a death cult was like this sort of like charismatic figure who's promising. We're on the precipice of something very significant, which in this case is AI. And you need to figure out how to live forever. And we're all going to live forever together. And his example from the talk was that he said something to the tune of like what I took away is like basically he's creating an algorithm that tells you exactly. what to do all day long.

And his big pitch to the audience was like, would you use the algorithm? And some people were like, well, what if I want to like, I'm hanging out with my friends and having fun? And the algorithm says, go to sleep. Yeah. He's like, would you do that?

And he was really just like sort of trying to find this comment. Are you willing to do that? Yeah. Cultural ground. And then the other thing that was funny is, um, wearing a make America great again hat was like the most non-contrarian thing you could do.

I was thinking about this. Where I, I shouldn't give a, blanket statement, but it felt like most of the most normy people there were wearing the Make America Great Again hats, and Delian was not. And Delian's a guy who like three years ago was getting horriciously like that. It was like six years ago. Six years ago. Yeah, he'd get canceled on Twitter horrifically canceled. Just as like there was probably, he didn't even endorse Trump at the time. It was like it was like performance art piece just to see what would happen in San Francisco. And there

was a big backlash. Yeah. In fact, the most, the most heretical talk that I heard on politics was the case for Kamala Harris, which is very interesting. It was pretty kind of trollish way. Yeah, yeah. But there actually was in that talk, like very serious criticism and very, like, like a deeper level of analysis around the flaws of Donald Trump than I'd seen elsewhere,

certainly in, like, the media, which I think was cool. And, yeah, the most triggered I saw anybody was maybe Max Myers after the D-Sel talk where this guy was basically saying. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was just like, like, like basically rattled. You do have to respect Chatham House rules to some degree. Yeah.

But, um, And, yeah, another favorite moment, like, David Senra would show up. And then, like, every two hours, he'd be like, all right, I got to go home and, like, edit the podcast. Yeah. And I, like, never knew if he was just like, this is getting, like, too crazy or he actually just had to get home and edit the podcast. Yeah. I think he just, like, you know, hang out with a small group of people. Yeah.

And when you have, like, 500 people packed in a place, he's just like, what's the point? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the real Herodicon was on the 14th floor. Yeah. I mean, that's how it always is. I mean, last time I met Will. which is the reason I met you

was because of Hereticon and it was all just because we just sat at a dinner table together. Will is who injured us. Yeah. That's so funny. Will introduced us and I met him at Hereticon

and he was telling me like oh yeah I quit smoking with Lucy and afterwards we were just like yeah we got it wrong really well and we just had a really good time and got putting a couple like group chats together and stuff and then it just kind of like continued from there. The rest of history.

But yeah there's always like that type of connection is like much more valuable. In general I mean all the talks it's so odd because of the vibe shift. There's not that much stuff that it's like, oh, if this were to leak, it would be career ending for them. Like most people have kind of sorted into organizations. It's not like they're like middle manager at some like tech company that is actually

going to like have HR and compliance be like, hey, you can't be out there. Most of the people that are attending are like either running their own company or aligned with venture capital firms that would support them or like they have a big follow. The interesting thing was there wasn't that many people. that had to put in like a PTO request to be there as I would say. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a handful of people that had to put in a PTO request and were on like a vacation. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But then most of the people were just like, that was work. Oh, 100%. That was like some of the most productive days ever. Yep. And we were very much working. 100% work. The entire time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But yes, because of the vibe shift, like, there aren't that many things that are like, oh, this person like said some, something that, like, if it got out, it'd be really bad. It's more just like there's somebody putting something out there and they're laying out a little bit more of a rigorous case for aliens or something like that. And it's it's on you as the viewer to just kind of say like, okay, I'm getting another like another ball is being thrown at me. Am I going to swing at this one? Like do I believe this a little bit more, a little bit less? And so the ideas are like not controversial in like the you can't say them realm as much as controversial in the sense of like 50% of the audience is like I'm not really into this. or whatever.

You made the case for, like, Brian's thing is like, it's somewhat authoritarian. Like, there's a lot of libertarians. Yeah. That is kind of a, like, a debate point for people, even if it's like he could talk about it publicly and it's fine. Yeah. Because it's not that controversial to talk about. It's just like, it's an idea that not everyone is down.

And that's why it was split 50-50. And that's like the ideal scenario is you go into every talk and people come away. Like, even at our talk, people, there were multiple people that came up with after us and we're like, no, psychedelics are great. And our basically, our pitch was like, no, psychedelics are terrible. Yeah. And it's just like, I think that that's kind of like what heretical meant this time around, as opposed to last time it was very much just the only place in the world that you could go at that moment and say whatever you wanted because Elon didn't own Twitter yet.

And there was still like massive like kids of culture and stuff. I mean, it was the most unique event that I've ever been to. Yeah. And truly, yeah, an amazing product. Yeah. Thinking of it as like a product. Yeah. And it, you know, but, but it's, it's one, it's interesting, like, would it ever have existed if,

if Twitter wasn't where we all were having conversations, but couldn't say the things that we wanted to say. And COVID. I mean, I know Mike was planning it before, before COVID hit. But once COVID got really bad, that really, like, amplified it and made it like, it was the first conference that 90% of attendees had been to since the lockdown started. And it was just like, everything was canceled. Yeah. And Heretic Con still got pushed a few times the first time, but then eventually happened. And it was like this big celebration of like, okay.

And the vaccines had actually dropped. So it wasn't that dangerous for people who were down with that. And so it was a little easier, but still companies weren't like all of the big tech conferences were still virtual. Yeah. One of the things that was cool and maybe under discussed to date is that there was this really good combination of intellectuals. and people that were focused on theory. Totally. And people that are technologists, business leaders, investors that are much more pragmatic.

Yep. And so I went to the talk on terraforming and ended up talking with the guy that hosted it afterward. And I was like, cool. You know, his high level point was there's these point, there's these depressions around Earth, which are below sea level. So if you just get water to them, you can make these huge lakes or seas or whatever. Yep. and I went to him and I was like, okay, cool, what's the next step?

And he's like, I don't know. Like, I just sort of like talk about this. Like, terraforming is like my things. I just talk about it. I'm not the guy to actually go and do it. So I very quickly, like, came up with a strategy for one of those depressions, which we can talk about off air. Okay, cool.

Which was basically like to buy up a ton of land around that specific area for nothing because it's worthless right now. And then go spend like 10 times more money lobbying to get water to that place. Sure. and there's like a really interesting arbitrage where like you could turn like a hundred million dollars into billions of dollars. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just through this like weird mechanic.

So yeah. We're going to keep talking and like see if there's something to do there. Cool, cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The water rights thing is fascinating. I mean, goes back to like Chinatown, like fascinating movie, like how L.A. wound up with water rates. But I remember there was a politician who was saying like we like all of Nevada, New Mexico

and Arizona could have like way, way, more water if there is actually like a technological solution which is nuclear power desalination in California. Yep. So you have the ocean unlimited water. Yeah. Nuclear. Unlimited energy.

You put those two together. Desalination's really energy intensive. So it doesn't make economic sense now. But if you can do that, then you can reroute the Colorado River back to kind of where it should be, basically. And then all of a sudden the southwest becomes not like a desert anymore. It just becomes like lovely because there's just water everywhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And there's just like so many other little plans like that. Obviously it took a long time. But like with the right combination of like technology, lobbying, economic incentives and yeah. And like academic type influencers. You did come away from it feeling like the biggest plays in the world right now from a business standpoint, combine technology with lobbying. Yeah. It's interesting. Because like the biggest opportunities in SaaS.

Yeah. Like even AI is like lobbying driven right now. Yeah. Also just the. fact that like a lot of these are like like there's at least one idea there and you kind of got a hunt for it that like will become consensus like this is the whole idea of like contrarianism which is kind of hereticon just like a different synonym um is that like the attendees for this one will just be like the entrepreneurs for the next like two decades and and everyone will be like

oh like why is that guy here his thing's not contrarian anymore it's like well yeah but you're not just going to stop working on it. Like lastoreticon, I gave a talk on nicotine is good for you, right? And this, and this year, like, I was like, I'm not just going to run that back because, like, everyone knows about that. Like, that's like super normie at this point. And same with like the anderol guys. Like, if they were just set up there, like, we should build a defense company. Like, it's like, okay, dude, we get it. But at the same time, you don't want the anderle guys being like, oh, I'm moving on to the next hot thing because I just care about doing contrarian stuff. It's like, it's okay that they've gotten, that they did the contrarian thing.

They took the bet. They were correct. But now they have to go live that. life for basically ever. Yeah. And that's good. And that's the way it should be. But it lends itself to this like, give me a newer hot take. And it's like, okay, like you can. I'm sure they have good ideas.

But it's not always going to be as big as like the one thing that they becomes life of work, right? Yeah. The contrarian thing from this event that will become mainstream is goo. Gu. Gio's goo. Is that, uh, you were, Volta. Yeah, John Fio from the Fiorantini family.

Yeah, Fierentina family. They made their money. in hospitality, right? Yeah. Yeah. And he, I mean, we talked about his, his, his, his, like, prolific hiking regimen. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, but basically, a lot of people were starting to skip the coffee. They were. They were. Yeah. For the goo. A lot of people. And there would be people running around really wired three, four a.m. Yeah.

On off the goo. And you could just see this crazy look in there. He needs. It was almost like, it was almost like a divine spark. Yes. In their eyes. Yes. Is it the collagen, the colostrum, the cat.

them to the caffeine. Yeah, we don't know what it is. It's just like a sacred combination. And he talks about something that is interesting is like there's no difference between invention or discovery. And so it's this thing of like, did he create goo? Or did he invent goo? Did he discover it?

Are they all the same thing? But by Nexerodicon, well, I think we'll have figured that out. Interesting. I'm bummed that Pachy couldn't make it. But did you see his tweet? Was he having a child? How on earth did he not make it? I think so.

something like that. But he said, I sadly didn't make it to Hereticon, so here's my talk. We should flip these lines. And it's the amount of venture capital investment year over year, and then the amount of charitable giving, and the charitable giving line is much higher than the venture capital line. Yeah, so that by itself is like we probably shouldn't even talk about it because it should just be a talk at Hereticon. Yeah. It just becomes like a normy like thing that, you know, if it ends up being, you know, world positive. Yeah. I mean, that's the fascinating thing about all of the, like, climate funds.

Not even, even the climate VC funds didn't do that well. There was a big, I think it was Kleiner Perkins, had a big push. They had a fund that was, what was the term back in the day? That almost, like, destroyed their brand for like a decade. It was, it was tough. I mean, Al Gore became a partner there. Isn't that crazy? He's, like, hanging out there.

But I forget what it was called. There was some term for this, like, Greece. green investing or something like that that was like really popular. But Tesla was not considered in that category. But if you bundle Tesla and then the returns go great. Yeah, exactly. And so it's like there's almost like this misclassification of like the thing that solves the problem might not even look like it's in that category. Just like, you know, if you were like starting like, okay, we're we're an internet infrastructure fund. Like do you get into the seed round of SpaceX? Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah, the, but you should.

I do think that VCs that are not there that are feeling FOMO should probably feel an order of magnitude more FOMO. Like, I'm not kidding. Like, they're, when the event was very expensive. Yeah. But I guarantee you it will result in a massive return for Founders Fund and the other VCs that were there. It's like there's people there.

I wish the missed opportunity was getting a photo of the entire group. Yeah. Because it would have just looked like it's the most eclectic group ever. Like a lot of like kind of strange, you know, a strange mix of people. Yeah. And you could look at that picture 30 years or now and be like, this guy like annexed Cuba. Yeah. Like this guy like this guy did a hostile takeover of SpaceX.

I liked Palmer's tweet. What was that? What did Palmer say? He said, Hereticon was so good. bangor after bangor hit after hit as if all the best threads on 4chan came to life but with a level of mutual respect and discourse

lifted from the best stereotypes of Victorian Explorers Club There was a conversation that was being had And Senra kept saying like What does that mean? Like what does that mean? Yeah yeah And they were all like 4chan slang

Yeah yeah yeah And he was just like what? What's going on right now? Senra so delightfully offline with his like book reading. That's why that's why founders is what it is. Yeah, is because he does the reading for you. He's not. Well, yeah, he's focused on things that were written mostly in the 20th century.

Yeah. And that's why there's so much alpha in the podcast. If he was extremely online, like refreshing the timeline, like the podcast would not be, he would not be who he is. Yeah. And so I think that that was a cool thing. Like everybody there is like authentically themselves. Yeah. And I didn't feel like most people weren't there.

The only time. that I got offended was a guy like trying to be heretical not actually being yeah yeah and it was for like a very like political topic that we didn't talk about because we don't we don't talk about politics on this podcast yeah but yeah everybody was there being them authentically themselves and the combination of all that just made it amazing yeah uh I liked Gabby's tweet overheard a hereticon the real new tropic is being on a mission I'm kind of I'm kind of mad she didn't Credit me for that. Did you say this?

That was my line. That was your line? Yeah, yeah. Wait, did you say that in our talk or just randomly? No, during the talk. Oh, really? Yeah, it was at the end. I think we were honestly talking about a certain presidential candidate who clearly does all the

wrong things, like crazy schedule, overworked, diet Coke, McDonald's, like eating terribly. And the argument there was that there's no, the real, the most powerful drug on the earth is a human spirit and being on a minimum. make sense yeah um i liked daniel i don't know how to spell this last pronounce his last name tenry row is he at teal capital uh he worked at teal capital for a while but now he's independent i hold my own private version of heredicon every day on the inside of my brain that's like really that's like really true because i think it is a place where you can say the things yeah like like

it's just like schizo energy yeah yeah you're just like saying things that aren't normally set. Yeah. But there was, there was like a, when I did, I didn't really go on Twitter during the conference,

but there was a little bit of like, pushback, like Rune tweeted, like when people go from SF to Heretican Miami, the average IQ of both cities go up, which is this like copy pasta of this like incredible tweet

by product manager, Raoul. Yeah. But it's just, it's just like oddly written. Well, it's funny. I saw another, I saw another tweet that was like,

come on, sweetie. It's time for your quarterly beef with Founders Fund. Yeah. He's like, okay. Well, I mean, yeah, Rune's like a prolificator, but, you know, I think you should put your journalist hat on for a minute, like your traditional tech journalist and just like follow the money. Think about it.

Like, Rune works at Open A.I. Yep. Peter co-founded Open AI. He's invested in Open AI. Like, he needs an enemy. He needs someone to beef because you don't want to be at the top. You don't want to have no enemies. That's the worst.

You need someone taking you down. Yeah. If we didn't have the working, if we weren't fighting against the working class. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. There would be no podcast. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, a similar thing happened with Sequoia.

Like, Sequoia was like, you know, the untouchable firm, no enemies. And then Sean McGuire, you know, decided to wage a holy war against Islam. And so now they have an enemy. And now they're not just this like untouchable brand. They need, you know, again, it's David and Goliath all over again, which is the ideal scenario. You always want to be the underdog. And so even if you have to pay someone to talk trash about you, it's totally worth it. That's the summary.

Absolutely. Thanks for the clicks, Roon. Yeah, I do think it's funny because our talk was closer to a comedy sketch than a real talk. And I realized that like midway through where we would say a line. And if we didn't get a laugh, it's like, work that. But you know that somebody came away from that not realizing that it was like a more of a comedic sketch than anything else. Yeah, yeah. And they're just, they were probably like, these guys are fucking crazy.

Yeah, that's awesome. This is the craziest talk I've heard. Yeah. But, I mean, a lot of it was like, you know, comedy shrouding around like a true idea or like teasing a true idea. But just like amplifying things to like help it stick in people's mind and become like memes. And then our boy, Fio, got destroyed by some IV or something. So the cost of admission to Hereticon was expensive this year, but it was worth it. because he became a blood boy, which of course is another joke.

There were no real blood boys there, unfortunately, but... Not in any of the rooms you were in. No, not in the rooms. Anything else to talk about Hereticon? I'm sure it'll come up later. Yeah. What should we move on to next? I think it's time to tell you about today's highlight Sotheby's.

Since 1744, Sotheby's has been the premier destination for art connoisseurs, collectors, and enthusiasts alike, offering an unparalleled platform for buying and selling fine art, jewelry, rare books, and collectibles. From classic masterpieces to contemporary works, Sotheby's brings together world-class expertise and global reach,

connecting treasures with those who truly appreciate them. So whether you're looking to acquire a timeless piece or explore the vibrant world of modern art, Sotheby's is where extraordinary finds a home. Tell a story about a piece of fine art. I really like this Peter Paul Rubens, David and Goliath. Have you seen this? No.

It's currently kept at the Norton Simon. Hopefully it'll be at the Sotheby's in a few years. Right. You can pick it up. But it's iconic because like Rubens was like, he really explored like the human form and like musculature. Like it's a very like, like, it's this like jacked David like about to behead Goliath. It's a very, very aggressive piece.

Yeah. But it's interesting because when you first, when I first heard the story of David Goliath, you think about David as this like tiny little underling. And Goliath has this like over, this. like massive massive thing. But in this painting, David is actually like very powerful and jacked. And like, yes, he's smaller,

but he's still like, he's still like put in the work. And I think that there's actually like a good metaphor there where it's like you can't just be like, oh, I'm some startup and I'm going against the big company. And they're huge and I'm small. Therefore, it's a David and Goliath situation. I'm going to win by throwing the stone.

It's like, no, David clearly like put in the work, at least in this talent. And I like that. And that's another thing with Sotheby's. they're not afraid to put in the work. They, you know, in addition to the art that they have listed and some of the private catalog, you can go to them and get their help, you know, finding specific works that, you know, that you feel something about.

You recently had luck here, right? Yeah, so we were looking for basically a lost copy of the wealth of nations. We have a copy there just, you know, for sentimental value. But, yeah, so the technology. Brothers, you know, collector division was looking for a copy that, you know, a lot of people thought was, you know, completely lost. Sotheby's was able to help us get it. It took about three weeks, but basically no lift on our side and it's now safely in the

vault. Yeah, it's kind of like the Holy Grail of capitalism. Right. In some ways. Yeah. Which is the primary. Absorb the energy. Yeah, the primary inspiration for this podcast.

Exactly. So, anyways, thank you to Sotheby's. Should we move on to some tweets or should we do Brother in the Week? We can just jump into the brother. The brother of the week. You're going to have to go to the mansion section. Yeah, yeah. So in the Wall Street Journal today, in the mansion section,

there's someone that we have to highlight. So his name, where is his name? Famed L.A. George Ron, Ruan, R-U-A-N. Is that R-U-A-N? So this is the co-founder of Honey, sold the company to PayPal for $4 billion. And he essentially got a free $44 million house,

which has now been profiled. It's 16,000 square feet, nine bedrooms in Los Angeles. The coupon king buys again. So how he got this house for $44 million, effectively for free, this is real. So in 2020, he paid $60 million for a $21,000 square foot house in Bel Air. And then just two years later, when the market was ripping, he top ticks it and puts it on the market for $150 million, almost three times the price. price. And he actually gets the deal done, sells it for 112. So that's a $52 million gain, pays a little tax maybe, gets the $44 million house for free. Rolls it in. Yeah, I think this is,

the real story from this is that if you're a founder out there building something like a Chrome extension, which everybody says, Chrome extension, this is silly, like, this is not a real business. if this guy had never built a Chrome extension that he never would have had gotten a free $44 million house so don't ever let anybody tell you that your idea is small or not worth doing that brings up I saw that grammarly is at like basically 300 million of ARR

do you see this? No, it's awesome. Yeah, so Chrome extensions. Yeah. If you're at Hereticon that didn't happen in 2012 it would have been all about Chrome extensions. Probably. Something weird about that. I mean, there, It feels fake.

Yeah, the honey and the grammarly, those companies, like, people love to say, oh, AI is going to, like, destroy this or like there's going to be some new thing that's like, it's not going to work. But people seriously underrate, this is like a key to beer point, but people seriously underrate, like, just like good management and good, like, a well-run company being valuable, even in, even in like a little bit of an odd industry that might feel a little fragile. And so I think the duolingo stock hasn't fallen at all, even though everyone's like, oh, of course you just learn how to speak a different language by talking to chat GPT and it's like

yeah part of it's just a distribution thing yeah actually am more bullish on much more bullish on duolingo than grammarly when grammarly feels like okay you're built on top of this browser that actively wants to roll out features that differentiate it from yeah yeah yeah but who knows i mean maybe google gets it wrong and there's just like it's never properly uh it's never properly rolled out but Congratulations to this week's brother of the week. We almost should get something in here that's like, yeah, employee of the month, brother of the week. Handwritten line.

Image. There is a good tweet in here that I want to pull up, but we should just go through them in like somewhat reverse order, I guess, since we have a whole stack here. So let's start with this one by Andreas Larson. He just posted a meme. I bet he saw it somewhere else, but, oh, wait, this is, I know, I follow this. this account, Instagram, QS, I forget what it is. It's like quant strategies or something.

Oh, really? It's the same guy. It's a mean page. It's good. What people think ESG is, we must save the planet. Invest in my fund. Here's my money. What ESG actually is.

I have created a synthetic securitization so that Black Rock can buy mezzanine tranches of forests in Zimbabwe. Nobody planned to cut and large mining groups can declare themselves carbon neutral while using child labor. Great, great riff on ESG. Yeah. If that's what ESG is, what is the, just kidding. I mean, actually, there's a great, like, economic analysis of the problems with ESG from Aswat Demodran, this finance professor at NYU.

And he kind of laid out the, like, the bear case for ESG and just how it was like kind of misaligned. It had been abused by capitalists, which, but the question is like, now with this, since it's making everyone so much money, are the capitalists going to come around and like, should we be supporting ESG? Yeah, yeah. We should be like, actually, ESG is amazing. Yeah, ESG is interesting. I feel like it never went its way into startups. But like I feel like there were, yeah, can you imagine if term sheets were getting issued with like ESG baggage attached to them?

Like if, if somehow the funds had gotten. Some sort of ESG kicker where like, oh, if it became a meme, like, you know, everyone knows that you can attach like dot AI to your B2B SaaS company and double your valuation. Right. That never really happened in ESG. Just because I think the money that was actually flowing was mostly in the public market. from these funds that like needed to flow and through the ESG scores and stuff and it was heavily gamed but couldn't you imagine if if big LPs had gotten pressure from various groups and were like

telling their the VCs that they invest in hey if you can get your companies to follow these principles and track it like that's a very dystopian sort of like very odd imagine but what if they were like well we'll give you 25% carry if you can get on any deals that have ESG attached to it like it's it's scary that it's not that difficult to imagine that actually being the case. And then there would have been this whole dynamic of like, oh, don't work with this fund because like they're going to force you to like follow like ESG.

At the same time, like how hard is it if you're like doing some B2B SaaS company to be like, yeah, we're carbon neutral? But like the whole gundo is like being like, yeah, we're putting up solar panels. Like you have to spend like at the office because like what's his name? Isaya from Valor is like being like,

yeah, like we're working on this nuclear thing. But like we have to put up solar panels. In the meantime. Yeah, in the meantime. Or no, even worse. Just like, we have to spend like 10% of our fund readers on like carbon credits. You know the thing that we're actually going back to Heraticon.

I didn't, I didn't talk to her, but you remember that girl like four years ago who was going viral for making nuclear energy cool? Oh, yeah, Iza dope. Yeah. Yeah. She was at this one, yeah. She was at this one too.

I didn't get a chance to talk to her. But it's so funny. That's like a perfect. example of something that was contrarian. Totally. Like less than four. She was on stage of the first one. Less than four years ago.

Yeah. And now there's like a whole suite of companies. There's a bunch of nuclear energy like founders there. Yeah. Um, I just thought that was cool. Next week I'm going to like MC a whole like nuclear conference and it's like the least heretical thing.

It's all like government people and like companies and DCs and like there's whole funds around and stuff. She wasn't giving a talk. Yeah. Because like, she didn't need to. She accomplished her mission. Yeah. And she can just kind of like move on.

Yeah. And that's, why we're oriented around capitalism, which is the only... So if capitalism stopped being a thing, we would have nothing to talk about, and we would retire the show and commit... Sapuku. But, so anyways. That's great.

Let's move on to the next one. Rico's revenge says, being broke at the book fair as a kid turned me into a monster. Why was this personal for you? I just remember that. Yeah, it was one of the first. I just remember the book fairs and like honestly so the topic of Halloween this is cool so Halloween every single year my entire childhood as early as I can remember my parents I would go regular trick-or-treating and then my parents would say pick your 20 favorite pieces of candy you can keep those

and the rest of them were going to take and give away in exchange for you going to be able to buy a new book so my parents were very into the library so we rarely bought books but that would be the moment where I would buy like a fresh brand new book. Yeah. And it was just like the best thing in the world. So thank you to my parents for doing that. But I do remember being at like the book fair. And to be honest, like with our kids now, you can imagine a book fair is happening.

You'd be like, yeah, like go like ball out. Like buy everything. Like buy whatever you want like because like parents are just willing to spend money on like education, but it just wasn't a part of my like family. And like anytime money is just so emotional. Sure. And so like any, you have these sort of like intense blood memories. around money and like this tweet brought back that yeah there was also that like meme or like study

that like the educational achievement and children is correlated with like the number of books in a house yeah growing up which is clearly just correlated with like wealth and like a million other things but yeah but but but then but then people kind of took that and kind of flipped the correlation around they were like oh if I just buy a bunch of books then my kid will do well which is also probably true but it's just like it became because you're absorbing just like why would we yeah spend seven figures on the wealth of nations. Yes. And it's because you want to absorb that energy.

Yeah, you want to have that in your house. Even if you're not going to read it, you want to be able to absorb it. I actually have read the wealth of nations. It's a classic. It's a classic. It's a classic.

It's one of those things like if you had to, if you could only have three books, uh, it would be the Bible, uh, wealth of nations and then the book that Justin Marys will eventually write on health. Okay.

Just to support the boys. Yeah, of course. of course. So. Yeah. It is, it is a fascinating read in that it's,

you're watching someone work through the discovery of capitalism essentially. Yeah. And that's, and that's fascinating. Yeah.

But most of the actual takeaways, you can get much more concisely from just like an econ one-on-one textbook. Yeah. But it is very cool. Um, okay. So let's talk about the arc browser

situation. There was actually someone from Ark there at the, at the party. There's a company called the Arc Browser Company. They've raised a fair amount of money over $100 million. Is that right? I thought it was $150. Yeah, they've raised a lot of money and they have a very like, you know, hipster kind of aesthetic. They post these high production value videos updating the community on what they're building and they've built a new browser. So it's a replacement for Chrome or Safari and they've applied a number of different design, you know, elements to that.

So pin tabs, vertical sidebar spaces. And they recently announced that they're essentially pivoting, launching a new product. They're going to leave their existing arc browser in kind of maintenance mode. So they're not going to like piss off their existing community. And then they're going to launch some new things. Sound like a lot of stuff is going to be AI based. And they're trying to like get through that transition of being like, okay, we're going to pivot to AI. But let's not make it like too dramatic.

And so Astral Wave Andrick writes, I don't fully buy the reason that. pin tabs, vertical sidebar, and spaces are too complicated for Normies. We live in a world where even mainstream browsers, Safari and Edge, have sidebar tabs, collections, synced tabs, pin tabs. Heck, Chrome has had pin tabs since a decade ago. I use pin tabs in Chrome. It's fine. I think the reason ARC feels complicated, honestly, is that they're a bit too focused on that

circa 2010's hipster aesthetic and gaudy visual design that gets in the way of usability. So do you buy this? Do you use a good take? generally I'm extremely pro arc in the browser company because I'm not an investor but I'm generally like in favor of people taking on these sort of like commoditized products and categories and saying like let's try to reinvent it yeah I think what they ultimately found is that the browser is like pretty well optimized and the other thing is that it's really difficult to compete with platform companies that are trillion dollar companies

that are giving away the product for free. And pre-installing it. Yeah, pre-installing it. So they have the distribution. Google doesn't care if Chrome loses money forever, right? They'll spend billions of dollars on it. Apple, on the other hand, like, needs to have, like, an installed browser, and they don't care how much it costs to run.

And they're pretty good products. I think, like, them trying to solve, they basically were trying to solve, like, the tabs issue. Like, everybody has too many tabs open. And for me, I actually, this sounds. It's going to sound bad, but I've never, I never installed ARC because I got fatigue around these sort of like new note taking type things where I'm just like now like Chrome's pretty good. Yeah. I even think Safari is pretty good.

I alternate between the two on my phone. It's just like I don't really think about it. But I think like the thing, the thing that's more real here is that they got really interested in AI as everybody did. realize that there's much more ability to create like a viral consumer product with hundreds of millions or hopefully billions of users doing that and they are really well suited to like go try to tackle that problem now the hard thing is that they're like a really big company now which like most vCs you know i would say like contrarian vCs would say like companies over 10 people can't innovate or whatever like do they need this like really massive team but i think the issue that they ran into

is they create a product that a small group of people really really love and they're in this position where they cannot, they can't just, they really should kill the product probably or like spin it out. But then it puts them in a position where they say like, well, why are we worth $500 million if we only, if we don't have a product yet or we don't have a live product?

And so I think it would have been cool if they like spun it out and made it open source and like let the community keep building on it or something like that. But yeah, now they're kind of in this weird position. I'm super excited for their like the product coming up. Devin gave me like a little bit of a preview on what it is. It's going to be awesome.

They, they like clearly build great products. Yeah. Now it's finding that like they do there are they they they, they raise money like with the understanding that they needed to build something with a hundred million plus users. Otherwise they weren't going to like live up to the expectations that they set. Yeah.

It's tough to sell a browser. No, I'm just not a lot of hybrid scalers need one. all have one. Yeah, no, I'm just saying give it away to the community. That might be better. Yeah, yeah. Or just, yeah, like, spin it out as like, like, hey, we're not, because now the thing is like, they have, they're going to have this, like, they're going to have this, like, why aren't you maintaining this? Or, like, why aren't you adding to it? And, like, there's, like, the, I don't know, some amount of entropy that is going to happen naturally when, like, the whole team is focused on the new thing. And then, like, it's like one designer and, like, a few engineers that running a browser and the tough thing is like they be on that team yeah the tough thing is this is coming

off them having like a pretty big security vulnerability from like a month ago that like they got a lot of heat for but I think the heart that what this comes down to is if you do a lot of things really well and you have a lot of attention uh and you're relevant to a lot of people which a browser is everybody has an opinion a lot of people like see like a really well produced video and are just like I want to like hate on this right um and so anyways I'm rooting for the browser company. I'm rooting for ARC. And,

well, I guess I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, you know, this doesn't, they don't even want to take it anywhere.

Arc's going to, arc. I do wonder about, like, it was like a design focus, like the right go to market for this. Like the other browser that's done, I think reasonably well is brave.

Yeah. But Brave is focused on like these crypto micropayments. And they have this whole like economic model that you could be, very like oh it's just a crypto ponzi thing but like at least like if it works there will be some sort of like incentivization there it's kind of like creator payouts for for x where you're you know ostensibly like paying to use the browser and then when you visit a website if they're on your team they get paid for every time you visit and then and then they have an incentive to actually put up a banner like hey stop reading my website in chrome you should read my website in brave because i'll get paid

for that and so you have some sort of distribution um like economy, whereas if it's just like really cool, yeah, it can be cool and people can say, oh, what's that? Oh, that looks really nice. Like it can kind of go viral, but it's just word of mouth and that's really, really hard to scale into like the normie crossing the chasm is going to be really really difficult. Anyway, let's move on to Nicole Wiscoff, Wiskoff Ventures. Founder shuts down company that never really got off the ground.

Emails investors, you are welcome into, you are welcome to invest in whatever I build next on a $100 million post money safe. Sometimes I hate it here. She got almost a thousand likes on that. The biggest problem is 100 mil is too low, right? Yeah, I mean, I know she seems to back really great companies. So knowing the kind of caliber that she looks for, I don't think it would be absurd to pay 100 million posts for whatever they do next.

I think what I just want more details, to be honest. I love to see, like, did he send the like filled out safe? Like was it already signed on his side? And he's just like, here's wire instructions, like counter sign. I mean, a lot of founders try and mock investors when things are going well. Yeah. Takes a special breed of founder to try and mock investors when things are going poorly. Yeah.

Yeah. It's funny. I talked to a founder recently that had like two very high profile failures in like a very specific category. And he was going back for a third company in the same category. And I wanted to, I didn't ultimately. get there on investing just from like nothing to do with him or the category just like talked with some people that I knew and they said like you know but just the fact that he was like back to back these sort of like big basically blowups and was like yeah I'm going back again like just like you

want to support that guy right like I mean under under discussed Parker Conrad uh rippling is his third company not his second company and the first the first the first first one was a little bit adjacent. It was a, I think it was like a fintech company, but it was still like kind of in that same realm. There's something for like charts and visualizations for like financial stuff.

And that company, he left and it actually is still going on. Like it's still alive. It's not like a phenomenal company, but like, yeah. And it's just like, I talked to a big investor in the firm or in Rippling and was just like he can't,

like, I don't know if he could build anything outside of this, but he's just like destined to do this. That'd be a weird, thing like working at the first company watching the third company and you're just like like your your company has your chair chairs have been marked up in like three years and you just see rippling with like the 12 billion dollar valuation you're just like yeah well i mean a lot of people moved over and some people didn't and that was like a big well the real hero's journey is that he buys back

the first company right yeah and like merges it into rippling because rippling is the last sass you ever need There's been a couple examples of that. I don't want to say it because I don't think the deal's done, but there's like a big YC founder who had a company that blew up and the early team is like going to go back and buy the IP and like, you know, use it for something else, which I think is really, really cool. I think there's something about like owning your child or your baby

and like just like keeping working at it and having another shot on goal. If it's like an interesting name or an interesting.com or like it'll have some party around.com. I mean, we got to talk about it. about getting party around once uh once chamath is head of the SEC you should just be able to text anyone in america i i do you want to buy shares in my company we got to all the all the uh what is it accredited investor laws we got to get rid of those i didn't even think about like sacks

gets a role obviously he's like well i got it i got to support the boys the best gets chumoth SEC. Yeah. And then it's just like a new American renaissance. J-Cal press secretary. Let's go. Incredible. Let's go.

He's there's like the White House verticalizes podcast. Yes. You know, we got to break out like the DOP, the department of podcasting. It's if J-Cal was running the White House media strategy, it would be heavily monetized. Yeah. That would be like. It's like secretary of state. It's kind of like a dream scenario.

Like imagine like, yeah, White House. press secretaries up there, and they're doing podcast ad reads in between the announcements for, like, obviously, big multinational companies. Why not just the bond issuances? Like, the government sells debt. So it's like, hey, did you know the 30 year? Is that 4%? You want to buy some?

Like, brought to you by T bills. T bills. I mean, they used to do that. During the war, there's like posters and essentially advertisements for government bonds. Now it's all distributed through. like the banks and it's very abstract, but it used to be very much like going direct to like the American average American citizen, exactly. Yeah.

Because you just wanted everyone to chip in and buy war bonds. Yep. That's great. But yeah, that's probably the future of party round. It's specifically those political texts. So you know how you get those texts from politicians like every two hours on your phone now and you can't opt out of them? I don't know why.

You don't get any text? Is that just because you've never voted? No, I have. I like, I, I, I, I, I'm, been trying to figure it out. Or is it because you're so extreme politically that they're just like, oh, we can't turn this guy to waste of mind. Yeah, there's no,

there's no, I don't, I, I, I, I haven't got a political text. Wow. Well, it's a thing. Everyone's getting out. Like, you can do those, like, blanket opt out of, like, remove my info from this, this stuff. Yeah, yeah. But, but that's where we need to get with, like, you know, fundraising.

It just needs to be like, okay. I'm hiring a firm to spam my roll up vehicle to 10 million Americans. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Send out the vibe real that went viral on Twitter. Yeah. Let everyone know I'm building AI for dogs. Let's get some money in there. General solicitation.

This is the future. There's a couple companies that have like figured out how to do that. I've seen some Instagram ads for like crowdfunding efforts. And I'm like, okay. Yeah, my friends run the biggest agency for advertising crowd funds in the world. Shout out. John, Skyler. Yeah, yeah.

The job act. Yeah, and it's like what, it's an amazing, like thing, you know, sort of like example of capitalism where companies figured out if you spend a dollar on Facebook, you can drive $10 of investment. So why would you not just do that? It's like an infinite money glitch, basically. I mean, it's the, the ratio of cost to capital raise is probably right in line with, like, big investment banks.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. If you take a company public, you're probably paying some massive fee. But you're giving an opportunity for everyday Americans to, you know, earn real yield and real alpha. Exactly. With, you know, the next great robotics company or whatever. Let's move on to Apple. Do you have Apple intelligence on your phone yet? It's like almost here, right?

You can install it if you go to the beta, but you don't have it? I don't have it yet. I don't have it yet either. I used to install the betas and they're always like kind of sketchy, so I just wait. Yeah. But Schmidt writes, my mom, that hike almost killed me. Apple's AI summary. Attempted suicide, but recovered and hiked in Redlands and Palm Springs.

It has 14 million views. I predicted that this was going to happen on a podcast. And didn't you also say you think a lot of these are? I think a lot of these are photoshopped. I don't know that this one is. But obviously we know LLM's hallucinate and they get things wrong and they're rough. But that is Apple, that is not Apple's. Yeah, that was a good take.

That is not Apple's brand. Like I was talking to a really, really big filmmaker in Hollywood, and he was predicting that Apple TV would not be successful. He works with, like, HBO and Netflix and stuff. And it is specifically because Apple's brand is perfection. Everything needs to look perfect. And so that's not Hollywood. Hollywood is almost more like venture capital, where there's going to be some dogs, even the best. And you can't have everything be guaranteed because it's,

art, not engineering. And so the AI thing has been really, really difficult for Apple, in my opinion, because they're two years behind chat GPT. The day chat GPT came out, they should have ripped out Siri and had an LLM replace it in terms of just like what consumers would want. At one point, I actually had a like a macro on my phone where instead of saying, hey, Siri, I could say like, hey, chat GPT. and it would like take a shortcut and route it into chat dpte it was slow it didn't really work but that's essentially what they're doing now but they're still going to have problems and maybe that's why they did the open a i partnership just because like if they have some really bad hallucinations and they need to like respond they can be like oh this is a partner we switch

partners they're the scapegoed like we can move on to something else hey we revamped it again like i think that i think the right frame of mind when you're interacting with like an lLM is that like it is a little sloppy and as long as everyone's going to goes into it. It's like a human. Yeah, it's a human. It's a human assistant that might get something wrong or just like when you're online and you're scrolling like a feed, you kind of know that like there's going to be there's going to be slop. There's going to be jokes. There's going to fake news. And so you just kind of go into that and you're not and you're not rattled. The issue is unlike an executive assistant, you can't berate. Like you can't berate Apple

intelligence, right? Like if app, if your EA makes a mistake, you can get on the phone and scream with scream at them for like 20 minutes and then hang up. EA? What's an EA? Is that like a secretary? Yeah, it's like a secretary. Okay. You can't call up Apple intelligence. You know it's going to be a robocall and berating an AI like voice bot is not going to feel the same.

Maybe that would be a good like instead of an AI girlfriend. It's just like an AI that you can practice berating so that you get better at just like really giving some of the business. You can come up that much. They don't. But when you're ready, you need to be able to scream at someone. Like if, you know, if you're raising your. second company, if you're raising for your second company after everything failed, you're going to have to get on the phone with all your VCs and tell them that they don't know anything. Yeah, like look at like

Jeremy Gafon, right? He was here. We got to spend some quality time with him over the last few days and very, very calm guy, but he's from he's from the world of finance. He goes to tech conferences, but don't. It's like a wolf and sheep's clothing. Yeah. Like he's clearly, you know, and the classic, you know, behavior in finance is that if something bad happens, he like, scream and yell. Yeah. The funny thing is I can't imagine Jeremy yelling at somebody like intensely, but I know he's going to have to do it.

He needs to get practice reps in. And so he needs to get his reps in. So if I was an indie hacker right now, I'd be creating like a prosumer. Yeah. Like beration is if that's a word practice application. Yeah, yeah. It gives you a score at the end. Like how intimidated was the AI?

Yeah, yeah. I don't think you're going to get a million users. Did you go too far? Do or do where you dialed in perfectly? Yeah, yeah. Because you don't just want to be like, you know, a string of racial epithets. Like it had a feature. like HR joins a call.

They're like, hey, dial it back. Dial it back. Okay, dial it back. But, you know, you got your point across. But yeah, I think it'll be good. I think Apple will eventually dial it. I mean, the tech is just so good at this point. It's like really easy and they have a bunch of interesting ways to integrate with all the

data in your phone. So you'll just be able to talk to Siri more. And it's so, it's so overdue because Siri's been so bad. Like Siri, I always asked if the weather, maybe set timers. This feature is, like, this feature is silly. Like, I would turn it off if I had it because, like, text should be short. I shouldn't. Well, I think it's valuable in the sense that like the real use is that the AI should be able.

So right now, if you want to get rid of this political text, you can go into your I message and say, but it's all hard coded. So you can say if I don't have the number saved, put it in a different folder, like a junk folder. But then you miss two factor codes. You miss like things from doctors and stuff. Yeah, well, the issue I'm talking more about. I could actually go to the AI and say like if it's a political text, just thrown in a different. Sorting is cool. Summarization is not cool.

Sure. If Nancy Pelosi text me and the Reddit stock's going up and she says, go long, soy, go long, all these other things. But then if the AI hallucinates. But politicians, if you're going to text me every single day, throw a stock tip in. There you go. Throw a stock tip in. And then I'll be like, well, yeah, okay. So you told me to go into.

You told me that you're going to make oil great again and you're going to drill baby drill. And so you told me to buy Exxon. I doubled my money. Sure, I'll give you a 10% cut, politicians. That should be how politicians raise money. Exactly. You should give a stock tip and then monetize it by saying, hey, if it works out, give me my cut.

There's some wheels. Yeah, yeah. Come on. That is how you drive American politics forward. Everyone would be like, I can't wait for the text. Yeah, the senators and various politicians would be focused on seeking alpha. Yeah, hedge funds would be setting up. Oh, how can we get the text first?

We don't want to be late. Well, no, the issue is hedge funds are going and paying off politicians. They're going direct to the stock tips. They're getting their tax over signal. Yeah. And we're just stuck with the SMSes. Yeah, yeah. Plebs.

Anyways, that's a plunder. There's a play there. You see Vivek, Ramoswami. He's now the second largest holder and shareholder in BuzzFeed. And he posted a vlog of him. Friend of mine's back, BuzzFeed. What? Really?

Yeah, cool. Great guy. So he posted a vlog of him going to BuzzFeed headquarters. And so George here summarized it. He said, this is so. ruthless. Vavec got on his plane and went in flip-flops and shorts, flew to California, went into the BuzzFeed headquarters, and handed them a list of conservatives to hire. It's kind of a funny thing to do. They had no choice but to listen because he's one of their new owners. He's now

their second largest outside shareholder. Maybe he'll buy the whole thing and turn it into a non-woke organization. This is how we win the culture war. So we can completely disagree with that. I don't think anti-woke BuzzFeed is a very good thing. The thing that's interesting about that is that Bezos was in the news this last week for saying, like, one, obviously the Washington Post, not endorsing a presidential candidate. Two, being like, you need to hire some conservatives. When I see these things, I'm like, why, like, we need to have media companies, like, sort of, we'll never do this, but other media companies should have to label, are we hyper-politicized, or are we a news source, right? Because, like, when I'm seeing that, that it's just like,

I don't know. It just feels like newspapers have this, legacy newspapers have this like sort of, you know, permanent label of being able to be arbiters, arbiter's of truth, right? And so, but if they're hyper politicized and like the truth is going to get kind of lost in that. So I was looking at the New York Times endorsements. Since 1960, they have endorsed every single Democratic presidential nominee. Kennedy, Johnson, Humphrey. George McGovern, Jimmy Carter, Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, Michael Dukakis, Bill Clinton.

It's just like, you know. You got to respect the conviction. I mean, at least you know, like, where they stand, I guess. Yeah. But it's just odd that like you would never be like, hey, actually, we switched around this time. We're mixing it up. Do we need to put journalists in our enemies bucket, or that would be too political? I don't know.

Maybe. I like journalists. Yeah. I like them far away. Depends. Some of them are great. Some of them, I'm sure, are good people. but this Vivek thing is interesting not because of what he's doing with BuzzFeed I mean I hope it works out I hope he makes a ton of money but it's because did you actually watch the vlog of him going and doing this that was interesting because I have this theory that like Andrew Yang was the first presidential nominee to go on Rogan Bernie Sanders went on Tulsi Gabbard went on and so there were like the fringe campaign that

that were polling very low had to go on Rogan in 2016 in that cycle. And then in this cycle, all the major party candidates are doing this huge, huge podcasts. Meanwhile, the more like fringe candidates, like, I mean, Vavex like not running right now, but he's clearly going to like gear up for more politics stuff in the future. And I think having a, having a candidate that does like vlogs and direct video and actually like owns their own media and put stuff out, I think that will be the future. know it's actually insane that

even Trump doesn't blog he's putting out like and Kamala puts out these little short like UFC have you ever seen UFC embedded which is like the week prior to a fight they vlog all the fighters and it's the most engaging content that will 100% be the future and you can make it narrative driven

so it's very easy for political candidate to make it look like oh are so much momentum building in the campaign like make politics is like more about likeability than policy 100% like with the whole rfk endorsing trump thing is like this parisota this is what senra always talks about the value of podcasting if you're in business is like he's developed like a real friendship it's a one way friendship with millions of people yeah right yeah and so if i'm shocked that a political high profile political candidate hasn't used the

vlog format or even having their own podcast or their own podcast or their own podcast like with the RFK Trump endorsement, like they both got on stage at a rally and both, you know, gave their talking points and gave independent speeches. I think that that would honestly do better if it was like the Donald Trump podcast, RFK is the guest. And they're just having a conversation about health. Yeah. And so you're just watching, you're just in the room with them, watching them have a conversation.

Or it's like J.D. and someone who, you know, knows about like, you know, industrialization. And J.D. is like, look, I don't know if this guy's going to be in the cabinet, but he's a buddy. and we're going to have a conversation about how we actually like revitalize the rust belt, like something that he cares about a lot. Instead of him having to go to Joe Rogan and Joe Rogan being or, you know, or Kamala going to. Yeah. And it's a way to stay active like over the last couple weeks.

I think people have been like really hyper fixating on what did this candidate do today. And the thing with a podcast is like we can record. I mean, for us, we publish live effectively like within, You know, a couple hours of recording, but other candidates could save up a bank of content and put it out when they, like, wake up and they're feeling a little tired. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. I don't tip politicians, or I don't donate to politicians.

Hit the campaign trail. Should we do this one? Mike Dutis says pump. Fun is the fastest company in tech in history to $100 million in revenue. I feel like there's a new company that claims this like every day. Well, so the cool thing with this company is you can look on chain and verify it. And it's like actual like dollars in the wallet. Because it's the reason that I...

Give me the overview. Like what is pumped out fun? It's like Solana. So basically historically people would make meme coins and they'd have to combine all these different things and they were actually writing code. Yeah, they were always like ERC 20. Yeah. Yeah. This is like a SaaS product.

This is like Shopify for creating a meme coin. Okay. That's the way to... Shopify for meme. It's Shopify for meme coins. It's basically Shopify for memes because it just allows, anything happens. There's a meme coin.

It'll be like the trap coin. Yeah, yeah. So like there's one for like Moudang, the hippo or whatever. And so the thing that's crazy about this is that one, they made it, they built the perfect product to enable crypto speculation. Because I think I haven't used it,

but I think you can actually invest on the platform too. So it's like two-sided marketplace like Shopify. So you can create it. People can invest. It actually is good for consumers because it's like easy, like they like help, it's creating more standardized, you know, sort of underlying structures.

Well, it's like it's, you're still likely, you can still get rugged very easily if people just decide that this means not hot. Because the coins have like, but it's not getting hacked as much. Yeah. Less hacked.

Yeah. There's like, the meme coins were historically extremely complicated. Yeah, yeah. So if you're on Shopify site, like the product might be bad, but you're not going to get your credit card information stolen.

Yeah. Because the credit card information is with Shopify. Shopify is reliable. Now, the product might be the white labeled and junk, but at least you know that your credit card information didn't get leaked. So what's interesting about this is what, I think this could be a company where they end up returning billions of dollars to investors without any liquidity event or through like stock buybacks

or something like that or just distributions. because I don't know any company that could buy this because it's in such a coinbase or something. Well, yeah, but it's in such a regulatory, like, gray area of like you're creating the government, like, the SEC wants to say that these are securities. And like every crypto company has had to like fight back and like make their case. Like this isn't a security. And so I just don't think you're going to see like Goldman Sachs like buy a company like this like pump dot fun. But they're making so much revenue. Buy or underwrite?

Like would they not even touch it from an underwriting perspective if they want to take the company public? I don't know if this company could be public because it's got so much regulatory baggage, right? Maybe in a Trump administration it could go public because like he's launching like his own meme token. But yeah, I think this is one of those things like they might end up returning like billions of dollars to their VCs. And I don't think they raise that much money. I don't know how much they raise. But like I think it's like under $10 million. And they just did really well.

and they could just distribute it out to VCs. Like Mike, and I'm sure it'll be a great return. But I think this is- You're distributing like tokens that are liquid. This is, yeah, this is such an amazing example of a product with like really good execution. But in hindsight, it's like, why didn't this exist in 2020 or 2021? Like, it's just like the most obvious thing, like Shopify for me.

It just seems like there weren't that many like actual builders. Like the ratio of like scammers to builders. But even, but even, yeah, even before. this product was created, like this probably increased the number of tokens by like an order of magnitude. Oh yeah. Yeah, totally. And even before that, there was like hundreds, hundred thousand per day. Yeah, yeah. Something absurd, right? Because it cost to create them as low. Fascinating. I like how this guy got like his little fucking house. I don't know. I don't even know who this guy is. Yeah, yeah. That was just like a response. I just like, wow. I love it. So,

Peter Levels, the indie hacker, extraordinaire, says, where do I start with robotics? I want to code and build my own robots at home for fun with the potential for world domination. And Matt Bogus, Matt V, says, the raw volume of software engineers who have asked this exact question in the last 20 days is insane. So all software engineers are pivoting to robotics apparently.

Yeah. I think what's interesting here is that there's going to be a bunch of like really the thing about indie stuff is that it's oftentimes like could have been fundable but wasn't oftentimes it's just like unfundable like it's just like weird like some like clearly very small tam the thing that's interesting here is like it will be dependent on how cheap robotics get which I think everybody thinks like the robots are going to continue to like get cheaper and cheaper but like right now it's expensive like robotics company I'm involved with deterrence like 100 of thousands of dollars like we're going to need like millions of dollars worth of robots

over time so it's not like something you can just kind of like I don't I'm I'm sort of like very for the trend but sort of like I'm not wouldn't go super long on it just because of the part of the nature of like I don't know I think I think it could be like you know it's probably like a decade plus there were a couple like kind of cheaper open source robotics platforms like like Arduino Arduino but you could also like a Roomba and like open it like a hack it and then you and then you can just like have a draw in the death roombo that said rumbo with a glock attached to it it's like just patrols your house and then you know boston dynamics does sell the dog for like i think it's under 10k it's like around there so it's like

somewhat doable yeah that brings us you can also rent those but those are much more close much but if we had a dog that could go to the fridge and bring you a beer probably with the arm yeah yeah good and then uh george hots has uh has a has a has a It's basically like two wheels and like a stick. And it's like the comma body. And then you can and then so you can like write code for it to like do stuff. But it's very limited. It's just like it's just two wheels and it balances.

It's like a segue basically. But yeah, I mean it's always hard with that. It's like these should be at like every single hackathon. So like the next generation of like college hackers can like try a bunch of different stuff even if it's like really junky. Totally. My, um, my dad as a teacher. ran this thing called Project Make, which was basically like woodshops, woodshop meets robotics, meets like aerospace and just like hacking.

And so he had at his school, he had this like warehouse that was just filled with like robots and Arduino and Raspberry Pi. So I think that's kind of like starting to happen, you know, in high schools. Yeah. Which is very American. Yeah. Right. Innovation is American. Yeah.

It's always it's always hard to tell like where the where the real value will be. like even if it's like okay you had if waymo had an open a API like what would you do with that you know it's like people really just yeah but the one thing I'm excited to see more like I think like Nat Freeman tweeted out like yeah like a not a leaf blower but like a little robot to like somebody built it yeah yeah to like pick up the leafs and like I'm so for that like leaf blowers we should add it can we add then can we add this to the enemies list is like leaf lowers because like I've lived in places where like leaf blowers are just like I'm like so this is insane like not only is it loud but

like you're blowing particles like everywhere into my yard and they're hitting my window like I'm going to go postal. Well this one's related. Yaxine writes

we really need more software engineers to enter fields that are very easy like electrical engineering and mechatronics we can bring so much fresh perspective with our relatively high degree of skill compared to them.

That's like I love it. Perfectly intellectual actual rage bait. Yeah, so good. 3,000 likes, of course. 3,000 likes. Banger.

Poor person probably had like a thousand engineers in their DMs and being like, you are the world's biggest idiot. Yeah, everyone who's an electrical engineer is like, come on, dude. But it's great, great rage bait. But yeah, I mean, I do think, though, there should be more like intellectual flexibility between the disciplines, especially with like just how easy LLMs translating between different languages will be. So it's like, oh, yeah, there's some sort of like a little bit trickier, lower level language

that you need to learn. But now you can just write Python code and the LLM can like transform it into whatever very quickly. So there's like a seed of like truth there, even though like it's the great bait post. Let's go to this will tweet. Absolute banger, 4K likes less than a day ago. Do you really post this at 6.50 a.m. on Halloween? Was he up that late or up that early?

Maybe this is a East Coast, West Coast thing. That's a good question. I don't know. Ben would have screenshoted it. I think we probably sent it. He just posts in the middle of the night. He just wakes up. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Divine. No, but it's very, I think I'm going to guess that it was 9.52 in Miami. Okay. So Will says the real measure of wealth is how many problems you can solve by calling one of your guys. Yeah. It's great. It's very real. This is going back.

I think, I think like. phone CEO. Jeremy may have brought this up like at Senrose event, but yeah, like, it's about, everybody's like, oh, I have like my car guy. I have like a barber's like a form of a guy, you know, like a hair guy. I've got, as you get down, it's like, oh, I have like this stylist or I've got watch guy or I have this, you know, specific type of lawyer, feng shui, I have a feng shui guy. And, you know, at Hereticon, the conversation is more like who's your Antichrist guy. right and who's your aliens guy who's your aliens guy who's your terraforming guy if you need to terraform who's your first call like a lot of people are going to come up blank on that we're

not yeah we're not there's also the shifts from most people have like an app yeah and when you when you reach a level of wealth you have a guy yeah like instead of and instead of door dash you have a personal chef instead of uber you have a personal driver instead of united airlines app you have a private plane pilot or two of them since you always have to have two flying. Sorry, I had to make a note. I needed text back my Feng Shui guy. Oh, you do? That's great.

Fung Shui is real. We'll do a deep dive on it soon. So there's news and tech crunch that Dropbox is laying off 20% of its staff. And Pachy, McCormick, writes, you're laughing, but one out of every 17 Americans just lost their job. Which is hilarious because he's thinking of DocuSign, not Dropbox. I'm sure Dropbox has. a lot of employees, but it's nowhere near what. That's the most, that's the most attention

Dropbox has gotten. Yeah. And it's so funny they got AK likes and a million views because like, it's wrong, but it's like kind of spiritually correct. And it's like, okay, no one really knows. But Dropbox is definitely going through a change because Drew Houston is doing like videos and going direct. I've actually gotten this from a few people. Or is he just working with Lulu? No, no. Lulu has like straight up created like a Zikeye shift even in like public company. tech CEOs. I've gotten texts from a few people. Here's the thing. So Lulu was at Hereticon.

We just got to spend some quality time. It's interesting because she's done the public market stuff, right? She's currently on Shopify's board. Okay. Yeah, I didn't even know that. And she was like the comms person on the Activision Blizzard and Microsoft deal. Yeah, exactly. But then she's also like now she's working with a bunch of

Yeah, she's working with these like really hot seed stage companies helping them do it. But like is the real, is that a waste of time when she could turn a $20 billion company into a $21 billion company? Like imagine if she goes turns around Boeing. Yeah, exactly. That would be crazy. Yeah, and like she, basically, she should like getting some seed stage company in series. Yeah, that's like charity work. It is.

That should be your pro bono work. Yeah, yeah. She should be like, yeah, she should literally have her charity division. Yeah. But yeah, it's Gabby, who's also Gabby Golver, whenever there. That's going to end up being like a crazy, I don't know if it's going to be a mafia or just like a generational firm. Yeah. If they keep creating this like orbit.

Totally. Yeah, one of those like, one of those firms is like behind the scenes. Yeah. And I guess like to go back to Will's tweet, like a guy is not necessarily a guy. Yeah. It's spiritually like, you know, as spiritual. There's like a meme like call Lulu. If you're, if there's a hit piece that's coming out or you have a comms crisis.

Like there's really only one person. And if you have someone that can actually solve your problem, that's really valuable. Yeah. And if you think about Hereticon, the highest percentage, like any like tech conference, the highest percentage of people that have had, have been doxed or had a hit piece against them is like, yeah, it's like half of people. Everyone. Yeah.

But yeah. Yeah, it's fascinating seeing like the like the text that are getting passed around from like, oh, this tech CEO who is running a public company, I'll get a text from someone being like, what podcast do you think they should go on? Like they want to do the Zuck playbook now. Yeah. And it's like they're running like a $20 billion public company. And they're just like they're just getting pilled on this now.

And it's like it's been like what two years since like all these people started going on Lax and Rogan. And I'm like, okay, well like here's the list. You got a little bro them a little bit. Yeah. Dude, you're 2% of the size of meta. But I think it's doable for some of these people. No. Interesting.

A lot of them are interesting. They've just been beaten down by like the HR apparatch checks. Yeah. It's actually a way to like, you know, kind of like, kind of like. pull up the ladder for these public company CEOs being like, no, no more startup founders on like these big podcasts. Only like real ballers.

Yeah, I mean the guy that you're not trading. The guy that I'm thinking of runs like a massive public tech company and there was a hit piece on him younger when he was like coming up because I mean he was already like a billionaire and he was from a very wealthy family but he bought like a McLaren or like a Ferrari or something and they were like using that as evidence of like him like I don't even know like being materialist or something or being a capitalist. Like it didn't make any sense.

Stimulating the economy. And you know that, you know that his takeaway from like his comms team was like, like if you're going to do something nice, like make sure there's no cameras there. Like the press cannot know that you went on a boat or like went on a vacation. And and, but what's interesting is that like if he actually like now Zuck is like,

yes, I have a boat that follow. I have one boat that follows me while I'm surfing so it can take videos. Yeah. Like I, yeah, I show up to UFC through the back entrance because I'm, such a VIP. And Zuck just realized that like, wait, actually like, wealth is cool. And he's just authentic. And he's just authentic about it. And so if the public company CEO that's been

like beaten down can actually, and that's what Lulu does a lot of times. Just coaching them. I don't know who you're referencing, but the CEO from a wealthy family, like, it's just okay to own it. The only way that you could legitimately get criticism is if he tries to go with a story of like, I grew up like streets. Just don't be fake. Just don't be fake. Authenticity wins every time. But, you know, the comms teams of the 2010s, their entire mandate was to destroy authenticity. Yeah. And hide as much as possible. Which is just very, ah, does understandable.

Unstable. Arguably leads to the hit piece. Exactly. Because people smell that, like, oh, there's something off here. Like, this person's being cagey. And so, like, there must be a bigger story here. When really it's just like, no, the person, like, created a lot of shareholder value, created a lot of consumer surplus.

Consumers love the product. They're making money and they're enjoying it. it and that's great. If they become a car guy, that's great. Or if they become a hype beast fashion guy, like that's great too. Like, it's fine.

Yeah, very silly. But I hope he breaks through and gets out of his shell and does some cool stuff because I've been a fan of his for a long time. So it'd be good. We've had signal.

We've reacted to this guy a few times now. I don't even, honestly, is a testament to him crushing the ex-algo? Because I don't know if I follow. I don't know. I mean, yeah,

I don't know. But most great found, are after vengeance in the form of success. They have been wronged in some way, either by being passed up, ignored, or overruled by people that they feel are inferior to them. The possibility that somewhere, the person who fucked you,

will potentially read a headline where you succeed beyond belief is better than sex. It's kind of like a more aggressive, like, cold grudges take. Yeah, the example that pops into mind immediately is Palmer, obviously. But, like, Parker Conrad is the same thing. And, like, yeah, if you're, Jason, it's funny, it's the all-in guys. You know, we don't have anything against all-in.

We just have things against under-monent-in. Well, I mean, we don't like that they don't advertise. It's more of like we're against under-monetized. It's not old-in. Exactly. We're against under-monetized podcasts. We're not against All-in. Yeah, yeah.

But David and Jason having to watch Palmer and Parker Conrad. Both build these decacorns. Deca-corns, like the most, like, important company in SaaS. Yeah. is a SaaS focus investor and the most important company potentially in the 21st century in America and Earl yeah that's got to hurt so like yeah like I think this is probably real and I and I think that Palmer and Parker like they're they know that they're only like 5% through the mission yeah they're like I'm sure they appreciate the headlines well yeah I mean to your point

about the 5% through the mission I would wonder if the motivation dies down once you have like total cultural victory over your you know nemesis because at this point it's like it's like the the the palmer viral clip of him at all in like trashing jason like that goes viral like once every six months and gets like millions of views like yeah it's like it's it's not like it's it's widely accepted that like palmer has won that beef and so i wonder if he needs like a new ending Jason arguably doesn't accept it yeah yeah otherwise he wouldn't keep poking the bear that's good i mean maybe he needs to keep doing it it because we got to keep Palmer motivated.

It's good for Palmer. If it's good for Palmer, it's good for America. Exactly. Yeah, Palmer's like, I could take off this weekend, but, you know, I could play more D&D. I got to get on the grind because I got to keep proving. It would be since Parker and Palmer are both P names strong, since they're both billionaires will eventually allow them to call in to the to the Polycom. But yeah, I don't think I would be shocked if they were like.

like, yes, spite was the only reason. It's more like I want to, Parker wanted to revolutionize SAS. Palmer wanted to build the most advanced weapon systems in the world. And like there's some like product, there has to be some product. Yeah. Yeah. Whenever I hear Palmer talk about it, it seems like a lot of the, like the reason he gives that talk is, is because he feels like there are dozens of founders who were destroyed and didn't get the opportunity that he did.

So he wants to like kind of do a cultural reset there, which I think is very valuable. So I think his his victory lap is less for him and it's more for the community. Yeah. It's good. Let's go to Tariq Mansour, who says he posts a screenshot from what looks like WhatsApp. It looks like an investor said you should you should receive $12.4 million today. 5.4 from Neo and 7 million from me personally. I've already sent in the wire requests.

We can figure out the terms later. Go, go, go. And he's posted it with a comment. It's in times like these that investors show their true nature. Ali Portovi and Neo have just redefined the term conviction. Why'd you like this? I mean, I like it for a lot of reasons. One, I like it because it's great for Google and meta shareholders,

because I'm sure a large part of that $12.4 million was immediately dumped into the ad platforms, right? I actually don't know what he's building. This is the, this is Cal She. This is a competitor. Oh, really? No way. Okay. So the reason.

They also advertise on podcasts. The reason for the speed was because it's an election betting marketplace. Makes sense. It's got to happen right now. Yeah, yeah. And they needed, they probably just wanted to spend a lot of money on ads. Otherwise, you know, why the 12.4 million. with no terms.

Yeah, yeah. So anyways, like, honestly, props to, uh, props to the, to the, to the, uh,

and yeah, I hope, I hope they're able to agree on terms, you know, mutually agreeable terms. Uh, but, but yeah,

it's kind of like, it's kind of like crazy because what's, what's, I don't know the guy's full name are, Apertovee. I think it's Ali. Ali, Ali Apertovy.

Um, Ali Partovee. Ali Partovee. Yeah. But like, that's either going to be like, like something that each of them like scrub from like their Twitter or it's going to be like framed in his office at the fund about like conviction it's long tail it does feel like it does feel like a highly

I don't know if people are going to be betting on uh you know sort of like state and like localized elections to the same degree as presidential election I would imagine like the volume dropped significantly but it'll either be a legendary investment um it's very binary legendary investment or like that guy is going to be like a month from now being like what was I thinking but I'm sure their metrics are insane right yeah I'm sure everything's ripping it's great but yeah one one thing I was thinking on that note on the topic of election betting markets is what happens if the election results are contested by either side like are the funds released when the winner is announced or are they is like polymarket and these other platforms

going to have to hold funds until the person is actually like. Yeah. I don't think it's as much of an issue as you think because there's a lot of liquidity in the market. So what happens is like I don't know if Polly Market had the 2020 election on there, but let's say that they did. Like obviously January 6th happened. The transfer of power happened on January 20th.

But the election was like up in the air the night of. A few days later, it was like being called by like CNN and, Fox and all of that. Then there was a lot of chaos and discussion. But through that time, like let's say we just reran the 2020 election where it was like in question. Well, throughout the 2020 process, even on January 5th or January 7th, it would be at 99% Biden. So you could sell your Biden shares for 99 cents or you could be buying Trump. Very cool. Yeah. So there's still liquidity. And I think the actual like payout mechanism is less relevant or it's not as critical. Maybe, maybe, uh, this investor is thinking, I'm going to,

we're going to make millions and millions of dollars and fees over the next. We just want to be super capitalized so we can outspend. And so even if there's like a battle, like, it's like, you have two full months before the certification and then the transfer of power. And then it becomes pretty easy for polymarket to say, okay, well, on January 20th, on the inauguration day, like everyone watches. We have to close this. We have to close this. We can close it now. And it's like, yeah, Maybe you had your money locked up for an extra month or two, but you could have gotten out at 99 cents. But then you get the full 100 or whatever later. So if you're...

Do you want to talk about Robin Hood's betting market? Oh, yeah. Is that in here? I don't know. We can just talk about how Robin Hood launched betting markets as well. It seems like every firm is launching them. And, I mean, Vegas has had it for a long time. They've been all over the place.

I don't think they're in here maybe. Let me see. Going to Vegas on electrical. night and just live betting in the casino sounds like I actually don't I only like gambling on private companies I don't enjoy like other forms of gambling yeah but it sounds like it be fun yeah I don't think I have it in here but either way Robin Hood also launched election betting which like probably within 24 hours of that investment because everyone saw that like okay this is just huge but yeah I mean just making just make

it easy for people to bet on it. I wonder if it'll increase turnout. I wonder if we'll see turnout material increase. I'm fascinated to see like that. That would be awesome. Because this is really like the first. That would be very American. It's the first election with like serious, serious liquidity in the prediction markets. There's always been predicted and whatnot, but the liquidity's always been really, really low like a few million.

Now we're in like the billions. But it would be very American if turnouts increase dramatically because people wanted to like, I made this bet. I want to win. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or people start betting against themselves. Because they're just like. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing with the prediction market is like you could want one candidate to win and you could bet on the other one as a hedge. Right.

Like, oh, I think my business is going to suffer under Trump or under Kamala. So I'm going to I'm going to bet on the other one as like a hedge. So if I lose, at least I have more cash on the balance sheet. It's like it's like not that irrational. At what point does the Fed start betting on the market? Imagine if the, I mean, we went like, what, four orders of magnitude of liquidity in the in the last election to this one. Yeah. Imagine if next polymarket is like, oh yeah, there's $4 trillion being bet on the election.

Yeah, pension funds. Pension funds. Saudi Arabia. Yeah. Massa gets in on it. Sovereign wealth funds are just like, and it's just like, oh, don't do the prediction markets. It's just whales duking it out. Yeah, yeah, you're going to get smoked. Like it has no, it's completely uncorrelated with the market, with the actual like, yeah, it's just like, like raw financial markets.

I mean, it's going to be fascinating to see like, you know, how accurate these things are. And I'm sure. There needs to be new. We should maybe do like a TB markets and turmoil that just analyzes like the betting. Yeah. I mean, if it's if the final polymarket is 51 to 49 and they get it quote unquote wrong, the narrative is going to be like it's useless. Yeah. People do not understand probability and statistics at all.

It's just going to be such a meme. But if they get it right, even if they're up by 1% or something, it's going to be like, who's genius? But it's partly an entertainment product. Yeah. I mean, I think that's why it's in the news category. And that's another thing that's interesting between Kalshi and Polymarketers, is that they're both, I think they're both marketing as like, we are the number one app in the app store, but they're in separate categories.

I don't think Kalshys has that. I think they say they were the legal. Yeah, I mean, that's their main one. But I have seen a screenshot of like, oh, congrats to Kalshi. They're like now number one in the app store. But they're in a different category. Polymarketers in like news, which I think is like more competitive maybe. I'm not exactly sure.

but you got to call Nikita Beer to figure out how to game the app store and get to the top. If he just gets his intro numbers up, he can call into the polycom. He's going to get there soon. But we should stay on Masa. Masayushi Sone, the head of SoftBank, is here quoted saying that $9 trillion of CAPEX

for artificial superintelligence is very reasonable. In fact, it may be too small. I love this guy. Amazing. trillion numbers get big scaling laws we'll see if they hold gvety five is pretty important doing the build out now my only critique of masa is that he hasn't made the AI boom enough about him like he's getting there he's starting this is the beginning yeah hopefully this is a start of a trend because um because yeah like uh soft bank like was every other headline just high volatility

during 2021. And so I just like, I like him. Didn't they own like 10% of Nvidia, like a couple of years ago and they sold at the bottom or something? Yeah, a lot of, a few people did that. Rough, rough. But yeah, I think the guys had some, he's had some big bets that went very right. So got to give him that. Doesn't have to be right every time.

Like just being a conduit from like Asia to the, incredibly CapEx intensive businesses like the money's got to come from somewhere it's important like it's not going to all be that you know Silicon Valley VC firms as they scale

but nine trillion is a big number I mean that's even bigger than what Sam was saying right I mean there was like that kind of jokey report that Sam was like oh we're going to need you know trillions of dollars but it was like he was kind of like meaning about it and was like this is kind of fake news but Moss is just like no it's real yeah

I'm more bullish than the founders who are running the companies. That's always good. I mean, that's the story with Adam, right? Adam Newman, like, they get in the limousine and Adam's like, you need 500 million. He's like, we need 500 million. He thinks it's like crazy. And he's like, no, you need $5 billion or something like that. Yeah.

It's great. Highly related. Farzod says it feels like we're about to enter the golden age of the United States. Well, I mean, we covered this last time with the economists cover. The United States is in a phenomenal position. The dollar is very strong. strong, the economy is ripping. There's a lot of chaos and it feels like we're more divided than ever, but I firmly believe

that things are not that crazy in America. They're more American than ever. And I was thinking about this when people were like, American politics have never been crazier. They're so crazy. But then I was the craziest thing I experience I had recently was like three hours ago trying to drive to the studio with LA Dodgers having just won the world series, not the American baseball.

series, the World Series. They just won the World Series, and there was 100,000 people turned out on a Friday morning. Wow. Yeah. But you think about like, okay, yeah, there was like this Trump assassination attempt. There's all, like the, the Biden, Kamala, hot swap, like politics does seem kind of crazy. But then I was going back and looking at like the timeline for JFK. And it was like there's a massive Cuban missile crisis. He avoids the apocalypse. Six months later, his Marilyn Monroe is like singing him like his his what's the word like not concubine like his mistress is openly serenating him on TV happy birthday Mr. President you know that one

oh yeah so she's like public not monaic not it was it was a Maryland Roe no no this is like Marilyn row but but like it's very clear to everyone in America that the president is like openly having an affair with this like Hollywood starlet as opposed to like with Trump there's always like weird stuff, but it's like very like tangential minor. And the U.S. didn't have an issue with it back then. No, they endorse them. And then six months later he gets shot and killed. It's like, that

is unquestionably a more crazy time in American politics than right now. Yeah. Like we're not even close. We're at like a six out of time. Imagine listening to a Technology Brothers episode from that era. Yeah. We wouldn't have talked about any of those things because we don't talk about politics. Exactly. It would have been all about, I don't

know, DARPA on the internet or something. Ben, can we add to the sheet? We don't, not discussing podcast. Or sorry. Politics. Politics. Yeah. So Miranda Nova says the market is wide open for a Raya-esque LinkedIn.

I think this is a good idea. I like this. There was an Adreasonback company that just like paired you up with like a relevant connection every single week. Yeah. I joined one of those. There's a couple of VC firms that do that. Kind of just like it's like speed dating for business people. Senra would absolutely

His head would explode Worst nightmare Just getting connected With a random person Yeah Except what if we created The Founders podcast app That just connected

It was only him on one side Yeah Just connected him to a different Founders listener Every single week He would he would He'd pay a lot of money for that Yeah yeah

Yeah Yeah If you're an indie hacker out there Go build the founders connect This is not an indie hacker project This Ryia asked LinkedIn Like you have to be You have to be

Now I'm saying Senra, the Senra app. This is something that someone, like, some, like the all-in podcast or someone who's like really connected can start because like the whole, the whole thing is like you're just going down market the entire time. So you have to start with like the absolute top, like the cream of the crop and then move down slowly. Clubhouse is basically that. Clubhouse did a great job of that.

But I don't know, difficult, like scale too fast or something. I don't really know. It should have gone fully into dating. Yeah. I think also like they didn't like, uh, I, uh, I, I hired an engineer who worked at Tinder once, and he said that one of the tricks that they had was for the bots and the really, like, toxic users,

they wouldn't ban them. They would put them in a shadow pool, so they were kind of on their own network within Tinder. Because banning them would hurt the metrics. No, no. No, it wouldn't be. I mean, I'm sure. But, no, it's because if you ban them,

they'll just create another account. So you don't want to ban them. You want to say, like, everything's normal for you, but you're just talking to bots. and you're just living in this, like, you know, Matrix world. And so, and so that's kind of what Clubhouse should have done is, has been like the Mark Andreessen and the tech people are in a bubble. They're in a filter bubble.

But then the people that launch, like, there were a lot of people who started joining Clubhouse and they were like, why do I have to follow this Mark guy? I don't like him. Like, I don't know anything he talks about, right? Because they're just, like, want to be on there and talk about sports or whatever. But Clubhouse was still, like, funneling people into Lake Tech. Like Alicia Horowitz, right? Isn't that Ben Horowitz?

Yeah. Felicia. Yeah. She held like a whole dinner series on there and stuff and that was cool. But it's like, but it's like as you, they probably need to be a little bit more deliberate about being like, okay, we have, we have dominated the tech community. Now we're going to go after like the sports community or the wrestling community or some other micro community get designers or get, you know, whatever.

And bring those people on. but do it in a really smooth way where it's like, okay, we're going to go after the gardening community. So we got the biggest YouTuber who talks about gardening on here and he's going to be hosting stuff. And if you're a gardening person that gets acquired through our gardening funders dad goes in and then you're in this bubble and you don't even see the tech stuff that's happening. Instead you just scroll and be like, it'd be tech conversation here and then just like complete nonsense. It didn't even filter by language. At a certain point, I would scroll and it would just be like completely a different language. And it's like, you should know that I don't speak that language.

You should just not show me that. It does feel like the product would have been benefited in a lot of ways from Gen. AI, boy, both like, imagine being able to join a room full of bots and, like, have a conversation, like, full, like, maybe somebody should build, like, clubhouse with just bots where you could, like, join a conversation and just rage about politics. This goes back to just berating people. Yeah, you could get on stage and just be like, you're fucking wrong. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like, wow. Yeah, I don't think it's still underdiscust.

the fact that Twitter spaces just destroyed four billion one new feature because I was just thinking like wow I miss clubhouse I miss like those like you would have at party around we would put our standups on clubhouse oh really anybody could just join and uh yeah it those commerce a lot of those conversations are still happening they're just now on Twitter spaces or yeah I mean also under under discuss that like Twitter was the company that did it like a lot of other a lot of other, you know, social networks did launch clones. But Twitter, everyone was saying, oh, it's so poorly mismanaged. But there was this moment where something was happening at Twitter even before Elon bought it, where everyone was like, we got to make something happen. So we got to stop it up. And so they launched like the community notes thing. I don't think that was like Elon showing up and being like, I have an idea. I think it was like in the pipeline. And he was like, get this out now. Like what's good? Just ship it. We'll work on it. And Spaces was the same thing where they actually moved just as fast as Facebook to get that out because they saw it as a risk, which it was.

Makes sense. Yeah, and this is an example that the Andresen Clubhouse X relationship dynamic is an example of the markets working as they should, which Endrescent ended up losing money on Clubhouse, but they'll make it all back on X, right? Love it. Which I just, I appreciate it. Fantastic. Do you know this account Grit cult?

I've never seen them before. but I am familiar with you. This post is two words, live intensely. Read the intensity manifesto now, all caps. Yeah. The intensity doctrine. Intensity is the universal language of God gifted to humanity. All other animals live according to their nature.

Humans are made to surpass it. And it goes on for like a couple paragraphs. Yeah, so the reason I thought this was relevant is I think we should create the American manifesto. Like this is what it means to be American. This is why you should be American. This is why you should not be un-American. This is why you should not be un-American. Even if you're in, you know, even if you're born in Singapore, you can be spiritually American.

Sure, sure. And I think we should give out spiritual citizenship to foreigners that feel more at home in America, even if they're, you know, still getting through the immigration system. It's great. Yeah, so anyways, hey, chat, GPT, please write me the American Manifesto. I want to go to, oh, we were just talking about Mark, but we're back on Mark Andreessen. he says Claude knows and posts like a massive screenshot of a huge block of text. But basically he asked,

hey, Claude, noble creation of Anthropic, tell me, my good man, if a company in a nascent industry started to gain traction and become a leader in the space and then began pushing for government regulation instead incipant industry, what would you call this strategy? And it seems like whoever wrote this prompt was kind of like baiting Claude into admitting that they were doing regulatory capture. Is that why you found this interesting? Yeah, and it's just such a perfect, like, example of why LLMs are so magic is because historically you would have needed your, a comedian, somebody that's as funny as a comedian that understood government regulation and the history of government regulation and regulatory capture.

And you would have needed your guy and you would have had to pay them like $5,000 to do this. Instead, it's free. Yeah. And so this is an example. it's the perfect meme because it's showing how incredible the technology is while absolutely just decimating anthropics.

Do you think it's real? Because you could just write this prompt and then just edit the text. A human couldn't write anything that good. You don't think so? No, no, no. I don't even think my regulatory capture guy could do that.

Yeah, it's interesting. I just remember, like, the thing with LLMs for me is like some of my core childhoods memories are sitting around a campfire with my dad. Yeah. And him being like, I'm going to write a song about like Jordy's love for soccer, you know. And then he would just like make that song and I would just be like head like exploded. But now you can just be like write me a song that talks about Jordy's love for soccer and it will

do it as good as my dad. And right now, it just can't play the guitar yet. But when Indy robots create guitar playing. Have you played with Suno, the music generation? I haven't played with it, but I think it's, I've actually tried to and it didn't get very far. It seems like it's still in like a pretty early stage, but it's really good for like the stems. So you just need like a little drum riff instead of going to a sample website and buying one. You can just say like I want it to be a little bit louder, a little bit quiet, a little bit faster.

And it'll just generate that. Move on to the next one. We have a tweet from David Sacks at the All In podcast. You know, we talk a lot of trash about how he's failed to monetize his podcast as much as we'd like, but obviously a dear friend. And David writes, it takes effort for a search engine not to be able to find an interview with 34 million views between the biggest podcaster in the world and the most famous person in the world. He got 60K likes. 60K, can we just talk about how many likes 60K is? That's so many.

Like, I think I've maxed out at, like, maybe, like, five. 5K is, like, a good, like, tech banger. I think I've hit, like, 20 or 30 on, like, something a little bit more generic. I actually... But it's hard. But that's why politics... This is the thing about All In is, like, they're going broader for a good reason. Like, there are more people that are interested in politics than tech.

It's just a more... It's just a bigger, addressable market. It's totally rational. And it's also a good service to tech because I'd rather have David than Caraswisher talking about tech to in the politics realm. And this was something that tech people just completely obviated themselves from. They just didn't talk about it at all. Anyway,

we should do a go-fund me for Kara Swisher to try to make her a billionaire so that she just has a more positive view on tech. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I'm pretty sure she's rich. And like, I don't know, Bologi is always talking about how she comes from money too. But this is talking about YouTube censorship of the Joe Rogan and Donald Trump episode. Which was weird because when when this originally came out Rogan was like everyone was like oh like why is not showing up on YouTube and Rogan was like we literally just had a problem with the uploader like they are not like messing with us like it's not a big deal guys like there's not conspiracy turns out I don't think it's shadow band at all like I like I think it's I think it's I think it's widely available. I don't think you can get 34 million views on a shadow band thing. I think it did I think it was getting pushed in the algorithm and stuff. I think it's I think I think YouTube is very seriously pulled back on this. I think it's I think YouTube is very seriously pulled back on this. I don't think it's I think it's I think it's very seriously pulled back on this. I think.

that. And for good reason, there probably wasn't anything as a YouTuber. Yeah, well, I mean, I do have takes on, on like, the YouTube stuff, which is that part of the reason Joe Rogan blew up so huge on YouTube originally was because he chose the three-hour format. So the algorithm, like the YouTube algorithm is a, is a expected value machine. So it takes the average view duration, which is how long on average someone will spend watching that piece of content. So for a 10-minute video, if it's really engaging, the average view duration might be like five or six minutes. Mr. Beast is like he's like the most cracked at at like retention. So like you have to watch to the end because you want to see who wins the million dollars. And then every few seconds he's reengaging you with

a new storyline or a new thing. There's no slow parts where you're like, actually I'm going to go back to whatever. So Mr. Beast on a 20 minute video might be getting 12 minutes at average view duration. Now Rogan with podcast, it's slower because it's just conversational. So there's lots of opportunities to be like, oh, I'll stop listening. But by going longer, even if he has the same average V duration as a one hour show, he'll have three times the amount of like expected value. And so that's more time to sell ads. And so the algorithm wants to sell more ads and keep you on the platform. And so it gets pushed. And then it multiplies all that by the thumbnail click through rate. So if you see Donald Trump in the thumbnail of a Joe Rogan episode,

you're more likely to click that than just someone, you know, talking about Trump like randomly, right? Yeah. I think a better, would a better test be like, how many people saw that in their recommended, right? Sure, sure. If Joe Rogan, if somebody uses Joe Rogan just or uses YouTube just to watch Joe Rogan. Did it show up in their feed or did they have to click in and see it? Yeah, exactly.

I didn't see any reports of that. I didn't see any reports of that. But those people are not really on tech Twitter. Maybe. They're the guys that are going YouTube.com. But the big comparison this week is about the Kamala interview that she did with Shannon Sharp, I believe. Yeah, I watched the whole thing.

And that was only one hour long. And the Trump, Rogan was, or they were comparing it to the J.D. Vance episode, which has more views, but it's three hours long. And so it just naturally, even if has the same retention percentage, it will have more average view duration. And so Sederer's Paribus, it should get more views in the YouTube algorithm. This is why a lot of YouTubers are moving to longer and longer form content. Like it used to be, you'd do like whatever, because you could just upload any file, five-minute episodes. then everyone shifted to 10 minutes because you could put two ads in.

Amazing. Well, part of it is people, and then it became longer. Part of it is YouTube viewership is now, I think predominantly on the TV. Yeah, TV is huge. I don't think it's more than half,

but it's growing huge. And also just people want to throw something on and then just go do the laundry. It's laundry TV, right? And so a lot of times when you're scrolling through YouTube, you don't want to just like, oh, a five minute video and then I'm going to find another one.

Do you hear that? Yeah, yeah. People are having fun outside. We are hearing gunshots. It's like gunshots. Fireworks, probably. All right, that's what. Oh, here's the Robin Hood one.

I don't know if we need to cover this, but we already did. Let's skip it. Okay. Let's move on to, people are going hard. Let's move on to Max. I don't know how to pronounce his last name.

Says, we are looking at buying some land to eventually build a home. Wife has Zillow open. I'm like, that's the wrong app. proceed to pull up Anx Hunt I don't know what that is immediately identify 10 landowners

in the area that we want to be in with either multiple tracks or tracks large enough to subdivide time to start knocking on doors do you understand this at all the next yeah so basically the next tweet is from his family that says

unfortunately Max was attempting to contact somebody while walking on their land and was shot No, no. Sorry. No, but the app is something that you can use to find land that you're available that's available to hunt on.

Oh, okay, okay. So if I have a ton of land, it's like Airbnb for hunting territory. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Got it. Okay. So I have a huge ranch. It's just like understanding like land use and like where you can go and things like that. Okay.

I just thought this was like the, I thought it was funny because it's like mansplaining like the most complicated way. I mean, there's a lot of alpha and just like not being like only dependent. and on Zillow for like trying to find your next piece of property. It's going to be more competitive. Yeah, it's more competitive. And like that's how you're going to find like actual like deals. Yeah, I mean in my neighborhood, like it seems like almost everything transacts like off market.

And we're always getting like phone calls from real estate agents being like, hey, you want to sell like that type of thing as opposed to like Zillow where it's kind of a zoo and a mess. Yeah. Interesting. If you had to buy. Competition is for losers. If you had to buy land in some far off place, where would you go? In America, obviously. You're not leaving.

Montana, Idaho, Utah. I think Montana's cool. I think the real play, going back to the Hereticon piece on terraforming, is land around the salt and sea. Yeah, that's good. And then re-getting a new pipeline. Yeah, and that's pretty easy to connect to America, to California and L.A. if you need to. I'm also, I'm always super bullish on Alaska. I got canceled on Alaska Twitter because I was too bullish on Alaska.

Really? They were like, don't talk about Alaska. They were like, don't come up here. You tech, you tech idiot. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it was, my point was that you need to be bullish on Alaska because if climate change is real, like, it'll be the last bastion of like beachfront property. You get a mountain up there, sea level, sea levels rise. Yeah, yeah. Los Angeles is 140 degrees. We need to be making big bets. Yeah. Well, this was what inspired me because I had a friend who, I think they're like great grandfather got back from World War I with like a payout of like, I don't know, like 50 cents or whatever the money was worth back. then, but that was like a ton of money. And so they go out to California, go west, and they buy

something like 100,000 acres in what is now Napa. And so the family just has generational wealth from a guy that just made a good real estate deal, like was never really in business. So that's actually an interesting one on that growing up in Northern California in Sonoma County, you can still buy like 100 acres for like $600,000. It's amazing. Yeah. Nothing. And so, yeah, like that's getting It's harder and harder to do, but not in the last. I think the interesting thing is buying land based on bets that firefighting technology will get more advanced. There's a lot of areas of Santa Monica Mountains near where I am. And there's like really cheap land because to ensure a two-bedroom home would be $60,000 a year against fire.

So nobody buy, it's not economical to buy there. Yeah, yeah. But if drones like totally, you know, revolutionize firefighting and you just have like, Los Angeles County fire is just swarms of drones that can like quickly attack and you know dismantle you know fires before they start or protect against arson or these different things a lot of that land suddenly becomes pretty valuable and interesting yeah my my other flip side of related to the technology advancement thing is like if you think that will like solve climate change essentially it means that they'll probably be like on-demand nuclear so you can just go

up to what is still tundra because the the climate has not warmed. And then you can just run AC and heat and oh it's dark artificial light. Just melt the ice. Melt the ice. Yeah. You can just do whatever you want. You can terraform it essentially to be localized terraforming. Exactly. And then Starlink makes the internet really fast up there. You have your power generation. Like you can live a very modern life in like what is essentially like complete tundra. Yeah. And you can still go by. And people that complain about the cost of homeownership. It's like yeah, you can get a really nice house for 100 grand. In Alaska. In Alaska. Go do it. In fact, in there's still homesteading there. So you can get paid better.

the government to go live on land because we want to like defend it from the Russians because they'll just like move over and be like no one's living here we'll just take it. The border is moved now. It's great. The next stage of capitalism is love says Jacob, love your customer and your supplier, love your investor and your lender and your creditor. Charge fair market price with heartfelt gratitude, pay fair market price with heartfelt gratitude, love capitalism. I think if I had to define one, if I had to use a tweet to define this, podcast it would be this. So I don't know this guy.

No. But that is what this show is all about, right? If you start a podcast because another podcast is under monetized, that's basically an ode to capitalism. It is. So I don't think there's much else that needs to be said except frame it. Just love capitalism. It's fantastic.

Luke Ferretor. Did you meet him this week? He was there. What's his? Luke Ferretor is a genius. hacker kid who was either the main winner of the scroll prize

that Nat Friedman did or a winner and he I think he wrote a bunch of machine learning code to help translate the ancient scrolls that were basically impossible to see Casey I forget what his name is Hanmer he

is also like just a genius scientist but he he just looked at that them and realized, like, everyone was, like, struggling to decide for the, we should do a whole thing on scrolls. It's fascinating. But the scrolls, these ancient scrolls that are, they're in Herculaneum, is that where it is? Or Athens. What was the, it was after the volcano? Yeah, the library of, was it, no, it wasn't. It was. Vesuvius. The Vesuvius scrolls. That's what it is. So Mount Vesuvius explodes. Ash covers everything. And there's this library with ancient writings, scrolls, that are

entombed and they find them but they're so calcified I guess would be the word I don't even remember they're just like petrified and so if you try and unwrap them they just disintegrate immediately so it's impossible to read them but uh nat Friedman went over there and like put one in like an MRI machine I think yeah and scan them and then put that data on GitHub and put out a reward for a couple hundred thousand dollars maybe a million dollars if you could if you could decipher these and with the raw data and so there's a bunch of people that worked on this. There was like a discord and a bunch of people kind of like came up with interesting ideas. I think what's cool is like the new tech elite like Matt Freeman, Elad Gil.

Elad Gill. They're all starting to like do things with their money. Yep. And Elad Gill was on a podcast recently and they were like the hosts were pressing him on like, well, how do you like are you going to monetize this or whatever? And he's just like, no, I just think it's cool. Well, this is the thing. People have been saying like we need better elites because for a long time,

the elites would make a ton of money and then they would just like constantly money launder all their money through like these fake non-profits that just like made the world worse instead of actually going and building like just a huge new library that everyone can enjoy. Yeah. It's just like there's so many amazing institutions.

Like going back to like yeah yeah like so many great monuments and like the Louvre and like all these like cultural monuments that live on for so long where just like some rich guy. Yeah that's a lot thing is like yeah. Or just like oh someone built like a huge house like Hearst Castle, you go and visit. It's like this kind of crazy guy,

but now it's like this monument that just lives there forever, and that's amazing. Instead of just like, oh, cool, you have like six different glass boxes that look identical in every major city. Like, who cares? Like, stop spending your money that way. Go build a castle and then turn it into an art museum

in 50 years when your descendants are fighting over the estate and can't sort it out. So it just turns over to the public or something. But anyway, Luke is great. He just opens sources his ideas, I guess, and just gives out these great ideas for free. He says he wants to start or it proposes a space-based pizza delivery in 100 seconds that uses reentry heat to cook the pizza. It's kind of like what happens after Varda, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What's their stuff going? You can make pizza in space. Yeah, I mean, I mean, Domino's should act, you know, one of the best performing stocks all time should be calling him. up and like giving him like a eight-figure contract to figure this out it's like rods from god now they'll be like you know garlic bread from god or something yeah no i i i'm excited for the future um i yeah it is interesting to think about like even you know is somebody doing like drone pizza drone delivery right because like doing all your packages like kind of doesn't make sense but like if you could get a pizza yeah like within like two minutes like that would be so cool yeah so

who's doing like you know drone delivery for food because like if you think about it's like the issue with drones is like they can't carry like that much weight so like ordering you're like from whole foods your grocery run doesn't make sense but like getting like dominoes like absolutely makes sense yeah and it makes a lot more sense than these sort of like surface based like autonomous like delivery devices so love it um should we stay on drones with uh jason h lou says Can we talk about that? We've gone to order of magnitude more tweets. Oh, yeah.

It's the first of us. I mean, it's going to be, yeah, five-hour show, so buckle up. Get in here. You were, like, when I look in our chat where we post these tweets, like, Jordy was posting them at, like, 3 a.m. And then again, at, like, 7 a.m. So it's the strongest evidence that money doesn't sleep. Exactly.

It's just you scroll in the timeline and sharing. Herodon, I'd feel bad because I'm like, John's out there, like, having, like, a good time. And I'm just, like, blowing up his phone. It's, like, four tweets in, like, three minutes. This is more important than any other work. Yeah. So, uh, there was a scoop. The biggest U.S.

drone maker, Skydeo, which supplies Ukraine, faces a supply crane crisis after China bans the company from selling batteries to the group. Um, and Jason says, one, if you're in a U.S., if you're in, if you're a U.S.-based drone manufacturer, you really should not be using Chinese-made batteries. Not only in principle, but also China can ban you from buying two, to Jesus, Skydeo has been using Chinese-made batteries. I mean, this is true in so many hard tech companies where it's just like there's no other option. Like for a long time, like small drone motors, I did like a survey because I was thinking that somebody should, I don't know if it'd be a good like venture company, but somebody

should start like the American drone motor company and just focus on motor manufacturing. There's one company that makes these small brushless motors that go on the corners of the DJI drones, basically, in the U.S., and they outsourced to China after a while, because it was like some family-owned thing. They needed better margins. It was very rational at the time. They didn't think it was a big deal. And now they do make some motors, but only like larger motors in the U.S. And I was like, it's almost like it would be like a charity project. There needs to be some government incentive or something.

It's very hard. Or just like a big meme, and then all the VCs can just pile into it. And then we get, we get like this. dividend of this company that might not be like a power law winner because it's just manufacturing one part. I figured it out. What is it? Tell me.

I'm not going to say it on the podcast. Okay. Okay. We'll figure it out. TV incubations. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, it's tough.

A lot, like retooling supply chains takes decades. Yeah. And because it's not just, it's like, you say like Chinese made batteries, but it's like, well, what are the ingredients to those batteries? Where did those come from? Who does the packaging? What about the machines that package you? the batteries.

This is so critical in defense tech specifically because it's the first thing that somebody's going to turn off. Yeah. You know, and the average tech person like only understands the supply chain, like maybe in chips in the sense that they know that like, you know, Open AI is partnered with, it's partnered with Microsoft who is a hyperscaler who builds a data center that buys Nvidia chips and Nvidia is built at TSM and TSM uses ASML and ASML uses Trump mirrors and lasers from Phillips and stuff.

And so people understand a little bit of that just from like the chip war book and a few other books that have been out there and like Azonometry and Dylan Patel and whatnot. But beyond that like that same like complexity of like, oh, there's like seven different companies in the supply chain that are critical. Like that applies to more than just chips. It applies to everything. just like the hot thing right now, but it's important for motors,

it's important for batteries, it's important for so many other pieces of supply chain. So it's going to be a lot of upheaval for these companies. A lot of appeal. Yeah, the, even, I've tweeted about DGI before, but that Americans buying a spy network for China

is like the most insane thing. Well, I interviewed a guy at Hereticon who is buying a ton of DGI stuff because he's figured out how to run open source software on it. because he says that the Chinese code will call home and talk home. We actually proved this in Sunnyvale back in 2012. We were in this hacker house,

and we downloaded from the internet Red Star Linux, which is the Linux fork that North Korea uses. And when we put it on a computer, we install that on a computer on a private network so we could monitor the traffic. And as soon as you fire it up, it starts calling home. And it's just like all the keys are logged. So if you install this anywhere or not,

even in North Korea, it's like all going back to home. And obviously, you know, DJ, I probably do the same thing. But the hardware is the hardware. And so he's like, I don't want to say exactly what he's buying, but he's like, he's very bullish on like some of their products that are very high quality as long as you. Yeah, the hardware is fantastic. And it was probably heavily subsidized because it is spyware. Yeah.

Should we move on to Brandon? It says AI is going to take our jobs. I'd like to see AI take my job. It's three monster energy. white ultra, zero sugar, dumbbells, steak, and just a Creed album. The only thing it's missing is... Is XL nicotine pouches?

Yeah. It's like, what... How is he describing his job? Just eating steak, lifting weights, drinking energy drinks and listening to Creed? Yeah, I think this... This is like... It's more of like you need to look at the deeper meaning of the tweet,

which is that like your job, is to create and maintain this vessel that allows you to carry out God's will, right? It's more about building the vessel that builds the thing. So I think that probably went over people's heads, but I think more, that's all the more reason to cover it. Somebody needs to build the monster energy for LLMs, something like, you know how you can adjust the temperature on LLMs to make them a little bit more creative or not?

Like, when are they going to create the stimulants for these MLL, like, can you get them drunk? And then can they... That is, like, that's an awesome product for somebody to build, which is just like, it's a layer, it's a thin layer of Rallelms, but you can just like make it drunk. Yeah, exactly. Give it a monster.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, give it a percocet. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like that... You can kind of do that where in the prompt, you can just say, like, you are, you are drunk. Like, you know, or you are a McKinsey consultant.

You just did some bad cocaine. Yeah. Give me your best ideas. Yeah, let's go. Should we move on to liquidity. He says, Harvard Business School graduates after starting a search fund and acquiring a Kentucky-based trash management company doing two million of last 12 months, Iba Da. And it's Vivek Ramoswamy, I think, getting out of a trash truck or something like that as a politics stunt. Yeah.

But what is he saying here? And what is the trend of Harvard Business School graduates starting search funds and acquiring like real? businesses. This is like a big name right now, right? So all of this basically started because of Twitter, which people were like, hey, instead of going and working a soul-sucking job at Goldman Sachs, you can buy a business that does $3 million of EBITA. Yep. You can lever it up, use some debt to acquire it. And then you could be, you know, make your investors whole within the first few years. And then from that point on, like, you know, you could work 20 hours a week and be making a few million dollars a year and like living the dream, right? And you're kind of like an owner operator at that point.

Yeah, you're an owner operator. And it's the entrepreneurial dream without needing to go from zero to one in a very competitive area, all that. And so there were some big, there were some big successes in people that had figured this out like decades ago or a decade plus ago where they were creating these things called search funds, which is like you fund, you create, it's like an SPV. almost to buy a company that you haven't identified yet. So it's basically like investors come to you and they say, Jordy, I trust that you'll be able to find something good and manage it well. So when you find the company,

I'm in for a million dollars. Yeah. And I think sometimes there's like some up front as a management fee. Yeah, where I'll give you something. Because it's better to spend two years and buy the right company. Flying around and meeting people. So there's going to be some operational expense for their salary up front,

but most of it is going to come in the purchase, right? And the challenge here is that people, when they are looking at a business, they're like, okay, I found this trash company, does $2.5 million a year of earnings. Like, it's been operating this place for 20 years. It has these contracts. It's basically a localized monopoly. Like, it's awesome. Oh, and by the way, they don't use computers, right?

Like they, you know, look at all the, like, software that we could add and all this stuff. And the reason that that that, like there are great opportunities there. Yeah, they're still using a fax machine, right? Yeah. And so that's like what people get fixated on. We'll move my doc you signed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It'll be cheaper.

And we'll have five account reps. Yeah, exactly. We'll have a great customer experience. No, but in the trap is that they think that, oh, it's our, it's just a fundamentally a great business and we're going to layer in technology and making it even better business. And the, the, the, the, the tough truth is. is that a company is basically as good as its management. And if that person had been, let's look at the trash company in a local,

you know, small local market that's doing a few million dollars a year in EBITA, that person running the company, yes, he may have like used a really old generation iPhone and like not checked his email that often and used a fax machine or whatever. But if he was like effectively the mayor of the town and everyone loves him and he can call anyone up at any point and get anything done. He's his guys. He's got his guys in town and he's got a relationship with the person that decides, like, which contract. Like, it's like basically, you know, if you come in and you're this like search fund MBA, bro who comes in and you're like, yeah, I'm just going to buy this company and like digitize it and you realize like the employees are like difficult to find and retain and they hate you.

Like the contracts are like much more oriented around, you know, much more oriented around like relationships and you're getting in there and you're realizing like, whoa, like this company doesn't need to be digitized. Like it needs somebody who's spent their entire life running a trash company in the small town. And the owner sitting there being like, wow, this company was unbelievably time intensive. They just gave me $10 million. And now I'm like one of the wealthiest people in my town. Oh, and by the way, I get to buy back the business for nothing like three years when you like run it into the ground. And I'm going to hire back all the old employees.

I'm going to get all my old contracts back. I'm going to cancel a docu-sign contract. Add another. By a new fax machine for 50 bucks. So I think a lot of people talk about these search funds and they're like, oh, be careful. You're just going to buy a job. If you buy a company with less than half a million of earnings, you're like buying a job.

A job, yeah. But like in the real risk is like you lever this thing up and you realize that it was a great business because that founder was a great person. They just didn't look like, you know. They didn't fit the normal mode. of like, oh, they're like a Stanford dropout hacker, and they know programming, so they're so they're so good. So they can install DocuSign.

That's great. Yeah. Yeah, interesting. I wonder how it'll shake out. Maybe the Harvard Business School graduates will move on to something else. It is interesting how there's like, you know, these eras of trendy, you know, career paths that come out of HBS, like, you know, is banking. Then it was like YC for a while.

Now it's like the search fund. I wonder what the next thing's going to be. There's funds are just financial innovation, which is very American, and there's always going to be a next one. the next search fund is just pumped up. I was talking to Sebastian Malibi about this. Do you know him? He wrote the power law.

And he wrote more money than God about hedge funds. He's kind of historian. And I was asking him, like, what do you think the next big, like, you know, VC tech bubble will be? And he was very bullish on biotech. He wants to, like, write the next book on, like, the flagship pioneering model, the company that, like, incubated Moderna and all those companies. And, like, as that becomes, like, more. like productized.

Biotech's American. Yeah, and just biotech becoming, like, right now it's in this weird, like, it's a very financialized, but not in like the VC realm where you take a company in public really early. There's all this like tech transfer between the universities. It's like very complex, but if it becomes a little bit more easy, like, oh, you're just like installing some LLM and there's an AWS for lab capacity. Pumped up fund for biotech.

Exactly. That's the thing. Well, stay tuned because I think next week we're going to do a deep dive on OZemPEC. It should be fun. Let's move on to this. Spain says, every name is like completely ridiculous. The nation of Spain. Yeah.

No, SPANE, which is Sparries and Nike, something. I cannot believe BlackRock invited a bunch of influencers to their E-T-F launch party, like it's a tequila brand. Truly incredible stuff. So there's a TikTok here that I imagine is someone pumping some ETF. Yeah, so why is Black Rock the creators of what's that big festival in the desert? Burning Man. Creators of Burning Man.

Why is Black Rock, you know, like innovating with like understanding media and like doing like tequila style launch parties when our presidential candidates haven't figured out they should be vlogging yet. Yeah. So like this is an example of the private markets at work. Sure. And understanding how to generate and capture and monetize a. attention. I'm the only thing I can say about the street is I'm pissed that we weren't invited. Seriously, BlackRock. Has anybody been, is anybody more publicly a fan of BlackRock and their

various financial products and services than us? Yeah. I'll wait. For sure. I wonder what the ETF is for exactly. I need to dig into it, but it doesn't matter what it is as long as people can speculate. They need to ETF more things. Like the Bitcoin ETF was a big moment. The, the Ethereum ETF as well. Need more ETFs. I mean, they're essentially, yeah, like shit coins in the public markets that you can just trade.

Yeah. That's great. Back to American exceptionalism. Since I'm in Europe right now, I figure it's time for another reminder, says JSON-based man. If we all just consumed less, and then Batman slaps them and says,

fucking build something. 10K likes. People, this resonates with people. I think I put this in because at Hereticon, the thing that triggered the most people was the deceleration. He was saying, like, we need to, like, stop building and put a bunch of stuff in the atmosphere to, like, you know. Yeah, yeah. But, yeah.

Well, he's kind of building something, too. It's awesome that this is now the dominant thought on X. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there, I'm sure will be some negative externalities to that, but overall. Yeah, Europe is struggling with the innovation. not much. Yeah, the craziest one who we could overlay this is like out of Europe's like top 100 firms, like all of them or 95% of them were created over 100 years ago. Yeah, it's all like the legacy fashion brands, the car companies.

Yeah. Really stylish. It's interesting that there's no like, you know, dividend from that. Like you don't hear about like, oh yeah, this guy who spent his time at LVMH has spun out and started some like new hot brand that like grows and like runs the same playbook in the same way that like, you know, Instagram was like, wasn't, wasn't the founder, like an intern at Twitter?

And so it was clear that like, like, like he, you know, cut his teeth in social, that's the thing with, I do think it happens in fashion, but the issue with fashion

is you could be, fashion's such a weird market because you could have, there's like a brand here in L.A. called like Cherry, which is like, seemingly really big. Like they have partnership.

They did a partnership at F1 with like, Red Bull and like they're like they have a ton of attention but like they're a small business. It's really hard to break through in this. And so a lot of these people go work at LvMH and leave, but then they build a business that does $50 million in revenue and you're never going to hear about it. And maybe in a hundred years it'll be like iconic. Yeah.

It's hard to become an iconic brand. Especially if you take venture capital. You got to own 100% of that business and making your life's work. Yeah. Oh well. Let's do. We should do a deep dive on Laura Piana and. Brunello, Cuccinelli.

Yeah. I'd like that. And we just... I don't really know anything about the business. Yeah. We should only cover the beef, though. Okay. And like the drama and stuff.

No politics, but drama. Drama. Business drama's good. I like business drama. There's tons of that. So D.D. says, I gave AI control of my computer and asked it to solve homework one

of Stanford discrete math class, math 61 DM. It found the problem set, downloaded latex, solved every question, and compiled it a PDF in five minutes. Will any college student ever do homework again?

Why'd you like this? So I like this because it validated a bet that I'm planning to make in the ed tech space around generative AI. And the core thesis of the bet is that Gen. AI and LLMs have completely disrupted all the primary learning modalities that we have, which are tests, essays, and homework. Those are like the core things that you do in education as a middle school, high school, college student. And it's clear that they have massive potential for learning, like creating learning products and having learning experience where we can go to notebook LLM and say like, generate me a conversation about the wealth of nations as though I read it 500 times.

Yeah. Like get into the real meat of it because I already know what it's all about. but yeah I just think it's like fascinating how a technology has so much potential and is simultaneously like so disruptive where imagine a college student today is taking a test on some like esoteric book and they're like okay they like hit a point where they're like oh I don't know what to say anymore I don't know this point or and they can go to the bathroom and be like chat chbtee like how would you compare like this book to this book and what would you take away from? and it comes up with this like brilliant thought that the college student didn't have themselves and they go back in the classroom and like finish the essay. So it's sort of just an extension of everything that happened with like people's fears around Google. It's like, well, if people can just Google the answer. Like I remember being in like high school, my dad having my dad's math class and being like

trying to Google the answer to a math problem. And you remember there'd be like these like forums and stuff like that. Because Google was like very much for like knowledge and LLMs are very way intelligence. intelligence as a service. Knowledge and intelligence two very different directions, right? But like, yeah, no one needs to like memorize facts anymore or even, you know, you used to memorize your time. database era, it was about like, oh, you don't need to memorize facts. Now it's like you don't need to think.

Well, yeah, I mean, I was interviewing Tyler Cowen and talking to him about how AI has changed like his teaching because he's a professor. And he says that now, yeah, to your point, like all of the existing measurement tools, are just completely pointless. So who gets the good grade in his class is the student that teaches him the most, which is a complete inversion of the normal professor-student relationship. Normally it's the professor teaches everything and the student who learns the most gets the good grade.

Now it's the opposite. The student needs to come in and teach the professor something novel and interesting and then they get a good grade. Which I think is awesome. And I think that's actually like a bull case for wanting to go to George, Mason and study under Tyler Cowan.

Totally. Totally. Very interesting. I think that, yeah, it might be like, you know, overrated in the short term and underrated in the long term to still go into a highly intellectual sparring zone, even if, even if a lot of the traditional measurement tools are irrelevant, just being on the path of, like, having those intellectual conversations is still valuable, even if you're not, even if you don't come away with, like, a test score.

But, I mean, HBS is like, like, Tyler, being at Heriton, Miami. 24 at the faina at the pool with Tyler Cowan before our talk. Yeah. Drinking out of a raw coconut will be a core memory. Exactly. Something that I'll, yeah, the LLM of me will be telling my long descendants, you know, like, Jordi did that. He was there.

He drank the coconut. That's great. Let's close on our final tweet out of the stack of 75 tweets. Trunk fan, prolific poster. Post breaking, the new Call of Duty, Black Op 6, has released its first integration with Excel and PowerPoint, an important first step to unlock synergies for Microsoft's $69 billion acquisition of Activision Blizzard. Obviously, just like a hilarious shitpost of like Excel, like poorly screenshoted or photoshopped

on top of some cod gameplay. But very, very funny that you can, these are both like highly addictive products. We talked about this, how like the dudes take, I knew some baseball players in college. at UCLA. I didn't go there, but I knew them. They went there. And they would take Adderall when the new Call of Duty came out because they wanted to be able to hit prestige, like, before everyone else. And so they would just stay up for three days straight when the game came out and like max it. And now like, you know, 10 years later, they're taking Adderall to like work in Excel and they're still using Microsoft software the whole time. It's all Microsoft.

All the way through. It's all Microsoft. But you heard an ad on Rogan or something for them? I think, I think it's, yeah, it's an argument that Microsoft is like a 360 degree lifestyle brand almost 360 degree no scope yeah 360 no scope no scope no it's like it's up there with um on for me because i can go i can play call of duty i can get on my think pad i can do excel i could be playing i could be using excel and playing call of duty on my think pad at the same time fantastic or even on two think pads at the same time right but yeah it was cool to see Activision, Microsoft advertising Call of Duty on Joe Rogan,

it's one of those things like advertising a product to your exact user base. It's almost like sending like an email like blast because like every single person on Joe Rogan plays Call of Duty actively. But yeah, I think this goes back to like talking about Roblox the other week and like being like if you're Activision like looking at Roblox of that many users not making

money. Like, I've never heard a Roblox ad. Would they be making more money if they were advertising me? Like, it's possible. I've got money to spend on Roblox if you just talk to me about the right games. I want to play the new Call of Duty so badly, but I have no time. It's just nothing happen. I know. I know that this is one I'm just going to miss. It's awesome that I still want to play it. Oh, yeah. I want to play it so badly. But, oh, well, moving on. Let's do listener Q&A. This is a new segment for the podcast. We have our first. call in or email from a friend of the show. So Stephen writes in, I'm not going to say his last name.

Hi, John and Jordy. I recently had a nine-figure liquidity event and I'm in the market for a new car. And I'm wondering what you would advise me to buy between the McLaren W1, the Ferrari F80, and the Porsche Mission X. So this is kind of like the new Holy Trinity. Are you familiar with the original Holy Trinity? So back in the 2010s, there was the LaFerrari, the McLaren P1, and the Porsche 918 Spider. And the three supercars, you know, the 918 was $850,000 at launch.

The LaFerrari was $1.4 million. The P1 was over a million. They all had 900 horsepower. Some controversial features, you know, 198 was hybrid. And so, but owning. owning three of those cars. Like it was a really interesting collection because usually people just collect like in one brand

but people started collecting across them and kind of all three of those brands. It was like a rising tide situation. But we're on the cusp of a new one because McLaren I think like a month ago announced the W-1 but they've announced like a bunch of other special cars in between so like the SENA and some other ones.

And then Ferrari launched the F-80 and they're back on like the numbered track. It was like F-40, F-50, Enzo, La Ferrari, which would have been the 60 and 70th anniversary. And now they're back on the F80. It's a $4 million car. B6 hybrid.

Controversial, but beautiful. And then there's the Porsche Mission X, which is all electric. Which is also super controversial because I think orders have been a little bit weak because a lot of the Porsche fans, they like the Carrera GT. They like a really manual,

really engaging, naturally aspirated V10 or something like that. But what would you go with between the three if you'd had to just pick one well to answer stephen's question you know nine figure exit he the real the real the right answer is by two of each car put one put three you know total into storage yeah keep them wrapped drive the other ones daily them put 30 40 000 miles on them however much you drive yeah but yeah it's hard to answer that question without more context i think that um uh if he's looking at it as, you know, the guy clearly likes making money.

If he wanted to buy a car, drive it and basically get paid for owning it, you have to look in the last generation. La Ferrari is an incredible buy in that $3 to $5 million range. I think that the FAD coming out only makes the La Fari more valuable. Yep. I think that there's a lot of issues with the Ferrari brand right now. Like if you, you know, they're making some very questionable decisions. Which I feel like I can comment on as a,

I recently sold my Ferrari, but as a, you know, a real enthusiast and consumer of the brand. But the interesting decision right now is they made their family SUV. Pura Sangway, pure blood. And then they made the F-80. The family car as a naturally aspirated V-12, similar engine to mine. and then the F80 sounds like you're when it's on track running hard sounds like my Roomba. Like it sounds like a Roomba going on in the other room. And so it's just like I don't know, I don't know if it's European regulatory bodies because these manufacturers are over there like putting this intense pressure on to be like nerf your cars, nerf your cars, like make them quiet or make them, you know, and they're going to argue like, oh, it actually has more power.

And so with La F-F-A-R-R-A-D, it is an award-winning system, right? They went and they won LeMond with it. It's LeMond derived. And, like, that's awesome. But I just think that they're clearly going all the big Ferrari launches that I've seen recently, like the 12-cylindry got a ton of hate. I thought that was a beautiful car. Really?

I think it's beautiful. I don't like the front-end ship, but I just think the design language is fantastic. and they took a lot of that design language over into the F80. I think it's a little controversial, but I think over time, people are going to warm up on it, and it'll be beautiful. Yeah, yeah.

Like the black front end is so weird, but it's interesting, and I think it'll work. Yeah, I think a lot of these cards, too, when they announce them, they're specked in, like, a very distinct way.

And if you spec them differently, they'll just look dramatically different. Like, I didn't like the 12-cylindery, like, the way, like, some of the color blocking was. Yeah, yeah. You did it in, like, a black. You could do it all black. Yeah,

I think they won't sell you that actually. Like, or there's something like they won't, they won't sell it without the two-town. Like they want the two-town. They want to enforce that in their design language, interestingly. But my, I mean, so Jordy's pick is get six. Get two of each. I think mine would be wild card gopher, ignore the Holy Trinity and get the AMG-1. Oh, yeah.

Because the AMG-1, look, it's a, what, turbo-hybrid V-6 or whatever, but it's an F-1-derived V6, so it's actually a smaller engine. It's 1.6 liter, but at least you can say, you know, it's an F1 car for the road. Yeah. And it's not this half step. It's probably the most collectible. It could easily be the most collectible out of the I think so. I mean, they don't do that many supercars, whereas McLaren, you know, every few years they're coming out with a speed tail. That was a really special one. But then it's like, the Sena is also really special. And the Porsche one is going to, if it follows the Tycon Turbo S path, it will be worth half the price in literally a year.

I mean, that's the real flex. Even if you don't drive it. Yeah, if you can just buy a new tycon every year, take 80K and depreciation, everyone will know, wow, they're really rich. That's part of Porsche's, like, effectively, like, scam operation is that they're like, oh, you want to buy the GT3RS? Like, buy three tycons. Yeah, exactly.

So, yeah, it's like you can pay $100 over MSRP or you can buy three tycons. I just love the AMG1 because it's this, I mean, it's destroying your, Nureberger records. Yeah. I don't think any of these new Holy Trinity will come close. Yeah. I think the Mission X will wind up being too heavy. I would respect Ferrari a lot more if it was actually like the fastest car.

If it sets some sort of record in one way, they need to do something. There was a, there's a new car. Isn't the new C8 Corvette, the, the ZR1 setting like a speed record? They went like 2.30 something with it. or it's the fastest American-made car. And the sick thing is in the video of them doing the speed test. The guy driving it is like the CEO of the company. Oh, no, I think you're talking about the Ford.

Are you talking about the new Ford GT? No, no, no, no. This is the, this is the Corvette ZR-1. I think we're going to see an American car renaissance. I hope so. Because it seems like the American CEOs are locked in driving their actual cars. Yeah, well, kind of. The Ford CEO was caught driving like a Chinese car.

see this and he's like this is the most amazing thing oh maybe i saw the the like PR response to that i'm like him getting out of the new ford oh yeah Mustang gt car that looks like it's going to be pretty cool all these guys just need to start tweeting and going yeah i'm concerned yeah the beauty of the amg one is that like you can just tell people yeah i just drive a mercedes and they'll be like oh you probably have like a metress or a g wagon yeah and little do they know you're driving like limited production multi-million dollar car yeah yeah you get a daily it obviously yeah with the it has active dRS so you can like you can like you're just you can like you're That's the thing to respect most about Sam Altman is that you daily is hypercars.

Full sense. Hypercars. That's the most important reason to get him equity in Open AI because we're going to see a renaissance in San Francisco, the new car guy. More hypercars. More hypercars. Street parked. Yeah.

This is the way. The techno elite. Thanks for listening, everyone. See you next time.