TBPN - How I Built and Sold SALT & STONE

Episode Date: March 27, 2026

This is our full interview with Nima Jalali, recorded live on TBPN.We discuss how he went from pro snowboarder to building one of the fastest-growing personal care brands in the market, unpack why relentless product obsession, profitability from day one, and brand building over playbook thinking helped the company scale to $165 million in revenue, and debate what aspiring consumer founders can learn from his unconventional path on everything from product development and retail expansion to focus, funding, and building a legacy brand that can last for generations.Sign up for TBPN’s daily newsletter at TBPN.comTBPN.com is made possible by:Ramp - https://Ramp.comAppLovin - https://axon.aiCognition - https://cognition.aiConsole - https://console.comCrowdStrike - https://crowdstrike.comElevenLabs - https://elevenlabs.ioFigma - https://figma.comFin - https://fin.aiGemini - https://gemini.google.comGraphite - https://graphite.comGusto - https://gusto.com/tbpnLabelbox - https://labelbox.comLambda - https://lambda.aiLinear - https://linear.appMongoDB - https://mongodb.comNYSE - https://nyse.comOkta - https://www.okta.comPhantom - https://phantom.com/cashPlaid - https://plaid.comPublic - https://public.comRailway - https://railway.comRamp - https://ramp.comRestream - https://restream.ioSentry - https://sentry.ioShopify - https://shopify.comTurbopuffer - https://turbopuffer.comVanta - https://vanta.comVibe - https://vibe.coSentry - https://sentry.ioCisco - https://www.ciscoaisummit.com/ai-virtual-summit.htmlFollow TBPN:https://TBPN.comhttps://x.com/tbpnhttps://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive

Introduce yourself for those who are not familiar since it is your first time. My name is Nima Jalali. I'm the founder of Salt and Stone. Okay. And it's the founder and CEO. Yeah. Take us back. And I'll give some context. So I met Nima recently moved into my area. And I think we met within like a week of you moving in.

And so I haven't even gotten like the full story, even though we've been hanging out the last couple weeks. Cool. Yeah, full story. Yeah, I was a pro snowboarder. I heard you're from Pasoena. That's right? Yeah. So I'm from La Cognada.

No way. Yeah. That's awesome. And so grew up there. I was obsessed with skateboarding and then got into snowboarding and started going to those local mountains. Like Mountain High, Big Bear. No, like Mount Waterman.

Yeah. It used to be called Cracker Ridge. Sure. Have you heard of that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so back in the day, you know, when I was in high school, we had, you know, El Nino

winters. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a ton of snow and they would actually operate. They don't operate anymore. Yeah. And so I just, I would just get out of school at 12 every day and go up there five days a week. Yeah. And I got good and went off and turned into a pro snowboarder.

What does that mean? Does that mean like speed competitions, trick competitions? What are you doing? Because there are multiple ways to become a professional snowboarder, correct? More like freestyle. Yeah. So there's basically like two paths. There's like think like a lifestyle guy.

Okay. Just like going around making movies all the time. Okay. And then there's like the competition track and there's some crossover. But generally there's like you have sponsors in both departments. but one person is focused on like winning contests, going to the Olympics, going to the X games, doing things like that.

And then there's the more like guys that might do backcountry or street or park, but they're focused on producing like parts basically. Got it. I didn't know you knew so much about it. I know a lot. Yeah, so I wasn't the contest guy. I was more in movies and in magazines and stuff.

Yeah. So one off and did that. How long were you doing that? Pro for about 10 years. from about 20 to 30. 10 years. That's awesome. Yeah.

Yeah. It was amazing. I mean, that was like my college. Yeah, there must be so much fun. Yeah, it was fun. What is the, what, I feel like entrepreneurs can probably resonate with what, like, a pro snowboarder is doing where your job is to basically produce, right, like a banger part, a season, potentially multiple.

And there's like this, where you're basically like, what is part? Like, that's like a five-minute video that might be released independently or at, as part of an entire movie. Okay. And so your job is to do enough tricks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stomp them. Yeah.

As Nemo would probably stop them. It's a lot. Yeah, there's a lot. I mean, there's, there's, like, you pick out a song, you know, that you wanna have in your part. There's first part and then the most prestigious is being in the last part, you know, in the video. Like everyone, so it's like, you got this video

and everyone's supposed to be on the same, like, kind of like team to make this best video. There's like probably 10 snowboarders going after and doing it. Yeah. But there's a little competition within that. because everybody wants to get last part. You know what I mean? And so it's not a team sport.

You're really out for yourself. And like there are a lot of lessons that you learn, especially growing up skateboarding, you know, where it's like fail, fail, fail, fail. Like, learning how to kickflip, takes you six months of just failing, and then you figure it out. And so.

Yeah, then the other thing is these parts come together, it might be like four or five minutes, right? It's just one trick after another, but you're missing. sometimes they'll include it, but they're missing like the blooper reel, which is like sometimes you have to fall really, really hard 20 times in a row to land the one that you make it look easy. And that gets cut out. So I feel like there's so many lessons out of that. You know, a lot of successful entrepreneurs would have failed miserably for years.

And then they have that breakthrough kind of like product or feature or whatever it is. And snowboarding, it's happening on like a day-to-day basis where you, you know, you know, you have like one season, right, to put together your part and you're kind of like racing against Mother Nature in some sense. Can you chase the winter into the Southern Hemisphere effectively? Yeah. Yeah. So you would be, how many days would you actually be snowboarding over a year?

I mean, five days a week. I ended up, I would live, I lived in Tahoe, Mammoth, Utah and all that, but I ended up landing in Big Bear just because it was like the weather's always good for if you want to just snowboard every day and train. The weather is always, you know, sunny and nice, and it's not, like, icy or cold. So I would just go there and snowboard every day and then fly out of LAX to wherever I needed to go. And Big Bear is, like, basically one lift that you're just going around and around, and there's, like, the best snowboard park.

Yeah. You can hit on one, so you, like, go, and you might be hiking, like, a little bit on one feature. But you're basically lapping it. So people that, like, don't like park go there, and they're like, this is the worst mountain ever. If you're used to skiing in Mammoth, Tahoe or Colorado. But if you just want to ride Park, Big Bear is incredible. Jordy, we're going to have to go, man. I know, I know.

No, I went through, I did almost like 50 days, I think my junior year of college, a lot at Big Bear. I would just go up and lap the park. Nice. A lot of good memories. Yeah, so it's a project. It's a project that you're... What's that? Where do you ski in the Southern Hemisphere?

If it's summer here, I imagine that even Big Bear, there's no snow. And so you have to go to the Southern Hemisphere. The only time I snowboarded in the summer was going to Mount Hood where it was like there's a glacier. Okay. So it's still snow. I don't. There's still snow. So it's in Mount Hood and they have like the summer camp. Okay. And so all these kids go and a lot of pros go and stuff. But honestly, during the summer I would just skate.

I would skateboard. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So the reason you're here is because you built Salt and Stone over the last eight years. Exit, partially exited this week. I don't know. I don't know which. I know. I know that numbers. I don't know what numbers you're disclosing. But yeah, take us through. What was the transition like? I'm assuming you didn't just like retire and immediately start Salt and Stone, or was it effectively instantly? So I had a couple ventures within that industry, like the surf, skate,

snow world. And then, you know, Salt and Stone was this idea that I had that I had. Which is like, I don't know if you can give any context on that, but like brutal industry, because, Every single pro and everybody adjacent also wants to start ventures within the industry. Yeah, yeah, that's true. But, I mean, there's just such a ceiling in that world, you know, unless you're like end up being a Burton or a Quicksilver or something like that, right? Yeah, and even those brands have struggled. Totally.

So I knew I knew I wanted to do Salt and Stone, and, you know, I wanted to do something on my own, to be honest with you. I had, you know, just, I had business partners and everything, and I wanted to just see how far I could go if I just went like all in 100% like not have to you know worry about waking up at 2 the morning and doing you know emails and just just going so hard and just I could justify that if it's just like all me and I'm just like going for it and so yeah and so transitioned over to that full time and it's been just a rocket ship man it's been such a great such a great yeah you guys did 165 million last year scaling still what was the first product the first product was sunscreen

Yeah, so sunscreen. Which again is like a brutal, I would say like from my perspective, sunscreen is like a brutal category because like a lot of people use it throughout the year, but like much fewer people actually are using it enough to like need to even be on a subscription. And then oftentimes you're buying it like just in a random hotel like, you know, retail store because you're on vacation. Anyways, but how did that go? I always wanted to do deodorant and sunscreen was the, it just happened faster as far as

was searching for the perfect, you know, chemist, contract manufacturer and all that stuff to bring it to life. And so sunscreen came out. The brand was profitable from day one. And then when we launched deodorant. How did you sell, were you just selling it, D2C? So we had some retail on day one. So I had retailers lined up.

We had, I think, about 40 to 50 of them. And so as soon as we were shipping orders, we were collecting payment. And so, you know, I funded it out of my own pocket to start. But I was able to pay myself back pretty quickly. and you know the business were those 40 to 50 stores were those individual stores or chains there were individual stores for the most part yeah yeah and then it was when we launched deodorant was really when it you know stores started coming to us yeah what's the what are the economics of like getting one sunscreen product sounds like one skew into one of those stores are

they buying like a hundred dollar box or there was a minute there's a minimum you know like and i from my memory i think it was like a case pack of 12 sunscreen that came out to like 300 bucks. Okay, yeah. And then you can sell it at a markup and then SRP. That's right. Okay, got it. How quickly did you realize that, like, my experience having invested in CPG over the years

is the number one factor that leads to success is not like operational excellence. It's not always just the team. It's just like how good is the product. and I've seen a lot of like exceptional teams that have like all the operational chops that have all the experience come out with a product that might be fine or pretty good, but they just don't go anywhere. They can never reach escape velocity because the product fundamentally like doesn't really sell itself. Like you can sell it. It might cost a lot to acquire customers. The sell through is not that great.

Retailers don't really love it. And when I first tried your deodorant after trying probably like 20 different. like better for you deodorants. I was like, wow, this product is like incredible. And I've like retained across years, even though I don't even know that I've, maybe bought it on the website once, maybe bought it on different stores online

or I just buy it in the grocery store, but I'm like permanently retained because I tried everything else and this is just the best. It like goes on well, it smells good. And so I was just like sold off of that and you didn't need to be like the best at like email marketing to me

or like have the best like, retention flows because I was just like it's a good product I've tried everything else and so I'm wondering like how you how quickly you realize that from like a product development standpoint how much of like what is your ethos around product development when is a product ready to actually go to market versus just still on that kind of testing phase yeah that's why we launched sunscreen before deodorant because we were just trying to get everything perfect right and so we did something in deodorant that hadn't been done before especially in clean deodorant you know, what was, deodorants before didn't smell the way I wanted to, right?

Like, they didn't have these sophisticated scents and clean deodorants didn't work or they weren't really like a pleasurable experience to use and they certainly didn't look good. Yeah, they'd be like mint. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I don't want to smell like toothpaste. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like, you know, why shouldn't it smell as good as your perfume or cologne, right? And so just hitting it on all cylinders and making sure it's, you know, perfect.

And for me, I was really making it for myself, right? want. And it turns out what I wanted was what everybody else wanted. So yeah. Do the company ever almost die? No. It's been it's been a dream come true right man. It's been funny. It's so funny because like the the classic philosophy and adventures is like yeah we almost here's this time and died and in talking to you like getting to know you just just recently it just kind of seemed like it was just like permanently up up into the right and you you told me one story that was like not like kind of annoying around on the on the capital side but nothing that was like I didn't feel like you experienced that much hardship just one-shoted entrepreneurship and it's so

crazy because I know I know so many you started the company at like the peak of the D to C boom like this was a time this was 2017 right and so this was a time that like everyone was like Red Antler fans. Red Antler, Gin Lane. We're just pumping out brands. There's so much capital flowing. There was, many competitors. There was like a, yeah, there was a school on the East Coast.

I forget, I forget the name of it, but they had like an MBA program that was like every single. Not Harvard. It was one. No, there were a lot of, there were a lot of MBAs that were. Yeah, there was like, every person in an MBA program would be like, I'm building a DDC brand and they were just picking. And there were some really good outcomes that people were. were tracking against like Dollar Shave Club and Harry's and there were a number of companies where it was like oh they did Warby Parker they raised money they did the

VC playbook and it's sort of penciled out for everyone but then later people realize like oh those were more like one-off exceptions to the rule where you get a little Unilever who gets excited and buys a dollar shave club for a billion dollars and maybe doesn't wind up realizing a billion dollars of value because it's just a young company so yeah I mean honestly it's I feel like it's just the power of a founder who's just going to be relentless and go up against the big guys, right? Because I interview people from the big guys all the time, and I'm shocked at like how sleepy some organizations are, right? And so if you even have a team of three people that are just

relentless, and you guys know from like what you guys do, it's like you can't compete with that. I don't care how much money you have or what incubator you're in or what VC's, you know, starting you. It's if you have a founder who's just going to be relentless. How did the approach to funding evolve? Like, because you said you were like profitable from day one. You did raise at a couple different points, a little bit of money, but did you care about maintaining profitability or did you ever go through periods of growth where you thought, okay, we can burn a little bit here to get to the next stage? We've always been profitable. That's always been important, right? I just want to make sure the bank balance is growing. The raises were secondary, right? It was me

sort of taking chips off the table. The business has just been so profitable that we didn't really need to inject it with with money, you know. And so it's a healthy business, man. I'm blessed. Venture capital? Not really my cup of tea. It's just so crazy.

I mean, it just goes back to you guys nailed so many different elements of the product. And yet I know people that started deodorant brands during that same period that just didn't, they just didn't go anywhere. What's the early team like? The early team? Yeah, yeah. So you have the idea, solo founder, but, and you mentioned Copacor, did you work with a formulator, do you hire a salesperson first, operations manager, somebody just to help

you, personal assistant, like what was the stack? Yeah, so first two, the first three years was myself, just myself, right? And then for that, it was really working with contract manufacturers chemists, but also, you know, bouncing off my internal network on like, hey, got this deodorant sample. Like people I trusted, their taste and what, you know,

here's the goal. This is what I'm trying to achieve here. Like, let's test it. So that, myself, you know, my wife,

like constantly were smelling each other's under arms, you know. Is it working? Yeah. Yeah. You know, it was just relentless, man.

It was like, we know what we want in a product. We see what else is out there. We have all the other products on our shelf, right? Like to just see what they're like. Let's make something better. Yeah.

Right. And so, and then three years in, I hired, I hired somebody who really took on all the ops, all that stuff off my plate. That's not where I excel ops and finance and all that. I'm more brand product. Anything the customer sees, that's what I love.

And so when she took all that and she really excels of that stuff, and it was me and her for like three years, four years after that. Wow. Or like two, three years after that. Still just a couple people. This is like 2020 and you're still two people? No, 2019. No, it was like, yeah, sorry, 40 years.

Yeah, three years solo, three years of two people, and six years yesterday. That we started hiring. So she came on board and it really, I saw how it would really excel the business and I got to focus on what I like to do. She came in and crushed it way better than I could do on the other stuff, the RPL logistics, all that stuff, and then I saw power of team. And then from there, we just started hiring people, hiring people. And then just got the confidence to keep hiring.

Because the more we hired, you know, we hired the right people, then the business kept growing and growing and then all of a sudden it's 10066 and we're the best selling and diodor on Amazon. How big is the team now? 55. It's still really tight. It's really tight. We have a high bar for what we bring in.

We'll interview people and I'll know within five minutes. Are you in the office or remote? No office. All remote. All remote. This is like the most insane. The most insane story is it's like most most of the time you get to this moment and just like the most battle scorn.

I'm telling you, man, we're blessed. It's been a fun route. Okay, so walk me through the product portfolio expansion, how that happens. And then are you subdividing sales reps by region or vertical or channel? We don't have sales reps. No. No. So here's the thing.

Here's the thing. Like, you got to create a brand that the retailer want. Yeah. Right? go and just like push something down a retailer's throat and have your sales guy knocking on the door and that stuff. And so that was it, like really focusing. Like this wasn't all just like, oh, it's just happening. It's happening.

It's like an obsession, right? Like I got, I turned into an advertising expert for like six months. All I did was want to have the best ads, the best digital presence. Right. And I create a brand that the retailers needed to have, right? And then from there, then those retailers need to have you. What was that, knocking on the door? What was that advertising process?

Like, were you looking, were you reading Ogil V, looking at the grades? just looking at all, looking at all the competitors, seeing how they do, right? And really, it's like not looking at the other indie brands, like looking at the big brands, right? Like I always want to take inspiration from the brands like the nikes of the world that are going to be here in 100 years. Because that's what I want this brand to be. I don't want this isn't some like influencer brand. I'm not an influencer, right? I'm not in front of the camera.

Like this is something that I want to be a legacy brand that's here long after I'm gone. So those are the brands I look at for inspiration. And then how are you actually instantiating your learnings? Are you directing photoshoots? Are you casting models? Are you writing copy? No, no, once you go through that six month brand exercise, you become the expert, are you like, you know,

taking a project, a brand project from start to finish, or are you picking an agency or hiring people? It was start to finish. So there was a time where I was picking out models, picking out photographers, videographers, helping with the edit, like all that stuff. The edits here and then go in and work with that. Yeah, yeah.

And if there's static, like still photos, I would go in Figma, drop text overlay, figure out what to say, like all that stuff. And, yeah, I mean, I just threw everything out, and all I did. I gave up all, like, everything, all my hobbies, like snowboarding, skateboarding, like, all that stuff. Like, I got into golf for a second. All of it ended. Like, it was just, I'm going to go in on this. But, like, when you get a signal that the thing is working, right?

Yeah. Then you want to. Because the bank balance is going up. Bank balance is going up. You're having fun. It's like really your purpose. It's just, like, nothing else I want. Like, I want to build.

I want to build it. What do you think about international expansion? What do I think about it? Yeah, how has your thinking evolved? What's the strategy? Is that something that a lot of companies go through this moment where they're like, maybe it's so operationally complex, it'll change the business. So let's put it off.

Let's maybe wait until we're at a point where we can team up with a bigger company and through a merger acquisition and let them bring their operational force so that you don't need a person in every locality because they will bring that to bear and you're set up success. Yeah, no, so we've already expanded internationally and and you know, Sephora Canada, Sephora UK, spacing K in the UK, Sephora Europe we just launched, Middle East, Southeast Asia, so on, so on. That being said, there's a lot of a lot more opportunity and that's one of the reasons I chose Advent to be the partner here is because they have a strong

expertise in international and I feel really great about them. I mean look my goal was never to just exit out fully and just put it in somebody's hands and let it go to shit. That's not what I want. Yeah. I want the brand to, I want my grandkids to look at this thing and be like, oh yeah, that's what my grandfather built. You know, I wanted to be around. I wanted to be, you know, what it was always meant to be and not turn into some, you know, discount brands. So, yeah, what was the, how many, did you have a bunch of opportunities to sell prior, prior to this moment? I'm assuming people were just like kind of seeing public metrics and sell through and all these things and hounding you at different points. What was the process?

of like knowing when the time was was right we had a lot of private equity reaching out a lot of people reaching out in general and so I worked with Raymond James who I love and I would just forward it to them and they told me when it was time and it was like let's go let's go explore the market yeah yeah so this was not a story where you met your acquire like years and years ago we've been talking for about you know for several months six plus months you know and I really really like them you know and for me it's when I did the deal with humble growth two years ago.

I, you know, we had 15 private equity, uh, funds to choose from. And I like them because of who they, of, of, if, no, we had a lot. We had a lot of bidders, you know,

no, I just, yeah, yeah, you know, if you were looking for, you know, uh,

the, the, the hero's journey of founder stories. This isn't it. You can turn it off. I mean, it is, it is,

it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, it's missing some plot points. Yeah, there's a lot more to it.

Yeah, but yeah, I mean, it's just choosing good people to work with, right? People who can do it with integrity and that I want to work with and that are aligned vision-wise on what the brand is going to be in the future, and let's go build that together. Yeah. What advice have you been giving to people that want to follow in your footsteps? This is like kind of what I feel like every CPG founder imagines is just like, yeah, I'm going to be building for like eight years,

that I'm going to sell for, you know, half a billion to a billion to a strategic. And yet, you know, the hit rate is obviously, you know, something probably like, you know, one percent, right? And over the last year, there's, I feel like there's actually been a dip in new brand formation. At least that's what Sean Frank was, was, I think, mentioning on a, on, I think, at the end of last year. And his point of view, he's the founder or the CEO of Ridge. And he's like, okay, and two years are people going to want new brands to choose from? And his point of view is like 100%, right? Like there's constantly a desire for newness and that kind of founder-led product development approach

that made salt and stone what it is today. So, yeah, what advice are you giving? I mean, honestly, like, I didn't read any entrepreneurial books or really listen to any, like, entrepreneurial podcast or anything of until I just went off instinct like you got to fight we're fighting for our life my advice would be would be to go all in like you can't you can't go and be like work life balance and like I want to you know check out at five because like there's going to be someone right behind you that's going to come and take take your place and be that brand that comes in and does what you want to do if you're going to just chill yeah so it's like you got to you got to

make sure you love it you love it because that's the way you're going to be able to do it you know basically around the clock from the moment you go to sleep to wake up you It's something you got to love to do and it's got to be your passion, right? And so you got to just go relentlessly and no, I would say like forget the work, life balance stuff, you just got to go hard, you got to go all in and just use your instincts. You know, you just got to be competitive and go after the big guys and don't be afraid and just go for, you got to go for it, go all in. Yeah, I like to focus on the actual incumbents.

Like a lot of people will focus too much on like, okay, who are the other new brands in my category and just actually studying like, okay, what makes the big, players actually successful. It's like, okay, massive retail distribution, like actual IP on the product side, all these things. Yeah. I mean, for us, it feels like in beauty, there was such a playbook. Like every brand looked the same. All the content was the same. It was like pay the influencer, have the influencer talk about the product, post it on your social, like over and over again, and that's the playbook. And I didn't want to, I didn't even know anything about beauty, really. Like I'm not, I don't come to skateboarder, you know, I don't come from beauty. I like, I like,

I like fashion brands. I like, you know, lifestyle brands. And so coming in and just being inspired by, you know, the Nikes of the world,

the big brands, instead of looking at beauty, I think played in our favor because we came out and it was like, oh, this is different, you know? Did you do any,

like, community marketing? Because sometimes there's a brand that I love. Let's maybe it's like, I would say, like, if a deodorant brand

was putting together an event, I don't think I'd be like, I want to, I got to be there, but did you do anything that, worked that broke through that like was material to the business because I feel like sometimes it's very distracting for CPQ brands to like do IRL marketing early on

because I'm like I usually will ask a founder like okay how many units have you sold in the last month and they're like a party a thousand I'm like okay then don't spend $30,000 on like some activation like you should just like make a product that actually sells well and then you'll have opportunities to do things yeah I mean early on that was my philosophy too it's like why are you going to go waste money on something that you don't know is it's going to move the needle. So it's like spend it. Like if our ads are going well, like let's just pour more money into that versus like doing

some pop-ups somewhere. But now we're at the point where those IRA pop-ups, it's, I think it's good. It's good brand building, you know. And so we do that now. We do pop-ups. Yeah, but pop-ups are, I would say, different than like a lifestyle event that is just like a bunch of people hanging out. Yeah.

What about owned retail, like flagship store? Have you looked into it? We're looking into it. So, yeah, yeah. So we're looking at, we're looking right now. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, it says a lot that you didn't jump into that in year two, for example. Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, it would be tough to do that and maintain profitability, right?

And so it's like you're fighting for your life, you want to make sure it's profitable. Yeah, it's balancing. Actually, you need enough awareness that you're actually going to get upside, but then if you have complete awareness, it's probably like you're already stocked everywhere, so it needs to be in the sweet spot. Yeah. Makes sense. Interesting. Such an amazing story.

Honestly, it's like, it's like a very unique. It's amazing because it's like it's exactly what people set out to do and yet it's so uncommon to just like go up into the up into the right every month. It's great because it's very refreshing. It's like work hard and don't get caught up in a bunch of stuff that doesn't matter. Stuff that doesn't matter. Do the things that matter, right? And John, you're going to be relieved. He's now a David Senra enjoyer.

Oh, really? Love his podcast. He's fantastic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he's getting to enjoy David Senra after climbing the mountain. That's amazing. That's funny. I hear that. It's like I hear the hustle stuff and like you gotta do this and you got to go all in and I'm like yeah like I naturally kind of do that you know it makes me

It works But even yeah I mean David talks about this a lot where like even like a lot of his audience members Are not listening to it and saying oh I never considered working hard They're saying like it's a reminder. It's a it's a meditation on their current philosophy And then it's a bunch of other examples and just confidence to continue being different because there's a lot of people, as simple as like focus is, there's a lot of people that feel pressure to continue their golf game. Oh, I need to have this super complicated seven-part strategy. That, that, and then also just like the work-life balance thing, like there's a lot of pressure to not be that person who's not, who's turning down invites to the golf trip.

And that's, and so the Founders podcast definitely like reinvigorates you to like add more confident that you're not crazy, you're not the only person doing this on earth. 100%. Yeah, I love, I love his passion. It's great. I'm going to introduce you guys. You guys are going to have a lot of fun. Yeah, this will be great. Brand wise, though, we're just getting started. Honestly, things like that, you know, and so this partnership's exciting and can't wait to keep building this thing. Yeah. Amazing, good. Congratulations. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much for taking the time to come show. See you back at the ranch.