TBPN - Meta Orion Headset, MKBHD's Panels Disaster, Volta Energy

Episode Date: October 4, 2024

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Welcome to Technology Brothers, the most profitable podcast in the world. For those that don't know, John Fio, world-class ideas guy and entrepreneur, usually they go hand in hand. And he's very humble about it. I don't know if even you know this, but the guys climb like six out of the tallest 10 peaks in the world. Never once posted a picture about it. And they're called the 14ers. Yeah, the 14ers, right. Never once posted a picture about it.

Hardly has told anyone and Volta, and he did it all without oxygen, right? Which is like they say that can't be done. So the guy's a physical specimen, but there's gotta be some edge, right? Volta is that edge. So Volta's a new concept. We were able to get some because we're also ideas guys.

Of course. And wanted to be able to provide some feedback So Volt is a new concept. They're making fresh energy drinks. I think you've probably had a Red Bull or a Monster or Celsius in your day. That stuff got made months, if not potentially years ago, right? Sometimes you crack open a Red Bull and you're like, this is a vintage bowl. Vintage Bowl.

Actually, at Senra's event this weekend, I figured out a pretty interesting ARP that I'll be taking advantage of next year. Red Bulls in this retreat center that he really. was hosting it at were $2. But if I walk down the street to the gas station, they're $6, right? So they call that the Senra Arb. Interesting. Did you get to try one of David Senra's

Jocko Go and the cherry vanilla flavor that he loved so much? I think he was randomly drinking those. It's not random. No, not random. He is obsessed with that. No, I know, but he was like the only one that had that. No, he has a, at his events,

he has a dedicated fridge with just Jocko Go. He just, the man who loves Jocko. The man loves Jocko. It's incredible. Okay. Yeah, whenever I'm hanging out with him, I drink one in solidarity. In solidarity, of course. Yeah.

But going forward, might be Volta. Some competition. So the idea with Volta is to make fresh energy drinks, right? Fresh is almost always better. So in this case, I'm taking some sparkling Yuzu, one of my favorite little cute little beverages straight from Japan. And we're going to mix the Volta right in there. It's got, I won't give you the laundry list of ingredients, but caffeine, healthy, and

magnesium, as well as liposomal nanomole molecules, which effectively delivers what Fia will say is all-day dynamic energy, right? So like energy that's shifting based on what you're sort of embarking on, whether you're climbing a mountain or you're you know battling with a spreadsheet right so let's give this a cool shot I have no idea how to dose this so I'm going to guess that you know it's almost impossible to say was that 15 milliliters 32 per bottle so I don't know if this is oh wow Look at that. There we go.

I don't know if this is 200 milligrams of caffeine or like 500. But either way. Let's find out. Cheers. Pretty good. Pretty good. It's tasty. I think the Yuzu is doing a little heavy lifting.

Kind of mask the, yeah. But, the nutrient cocktail. The nutrient cocktail. The scientific formula. It definitely, it definitely has a flavor that you won't forget, you know?

Sure. Like you could be on top of. of Mount Kilimanjaro in like 12 years and you're on your last breath and somebody squirts a little bit of this in your mouth and you sort of like jolt up and bolt alive and make it back to tell the tale but anyways I'm sure Excel and Volta will be doing numerous many collaborations in the future of course of course yeah we need a we need a good energy drink sponsor for the pod This was unsponsored, by the way, just purely an idea guy supporting another idea guy. Let's get into the news.

Is there anything you want to cover from the journal, or should we just go straight into the timeline? Yeah, we can go into the top story. I think we've got to talk about Meadows Orion glasses. Sorry, I'm just reading this. the stolen dollar well I mean that that honestly relates to what we're talking about like I've been sick this week and

same I was thinking you know there's a lot that you can throw at it caffeine nicotine but there's kind of a new theory that if you're sick maybe cocaine is the thing that will get you back on your game

right right and so I've heard that. I don't have easy access to it. I'm not demoing it today, but I was wondering if that would make me feel better, if I had a really important podcast, should I be doing Coke? I tend to think I would feel terrible.

Yeah. I was on Coke while I was trying to podcast. Doing a podcast. I'm sure people have done that. I'm sure even people have called into CNBC at different points for, like, you know, post-earnings to just kind of, you know, chit-chat and been. on it but given that you are on track to be a public company CEO you know

sometime within the next few years handful of years it's hard to say that you have to be more market dependent you don't want that track record but the SEC right like you don't want yeah you don't want that attached to your good name yeah it is interesting I have a friend who is a product manager at big tech company and kind of lost I mean making you know a couple hundred thousand dollars every month just doing kind of nothing but yeah a little bit lost and was just thinking about how to kind of get back in tune a lot of people were doing the ayahuasca retreats these are really popular right but he was kind of worried about like

you know you go to this country and you know maybe you get your brain rearranged and you come back as a different person right and And so he actually went on a different type of retreat. He went on a cocaine retreat. Same concept. Like you're still traveling to a foreign country. There's a shaman there. But instead of administering ayahuasca and heroic doses, you're taking cocaine.

Right. And so instead of like sitting there, you know, all strung out, all like messed up, you know, kind of tripping. Exactly. Turbo-frized. You're locked in. Right. And so they, you know, there's like cubicles with monitors. And Bloomberg terminals.

Is there like, do they put like a, there's no beds, right? It's just like a pillow under the desk. Exactly, exactly. I mean, it's a simulacrum of like an average Wall Street, like office essentially. And that's in Peru, Chile? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So you fly down there to go on the cocaine retreat and just kind of lock in.

And then you come back refreshed and ready to kick ass. Right. Yeah, I can see that. we've entered back into the age of stimulants like the 2010s like things were so good it was about how do I dumb down like this life is so good yeah how do I were coming out of the great recession how to you know everybody's you know becoming a software engineer making six figures overnight yeah people were trying to sort of like dumb that down whereas now people are realizing that great men and great women, great people need to be on, it's sort of your duty

to be on some selection of stimulants, whether it's Volta, Excel, you know, a nice cup of coffee, and some of the harder stuff if you're in, if you're in it, you know, parts of the world that allow it, right? It's sort of, it's almost like your civic duty. Like if all of Peru, was on cocaine, you know, daily or a few times weekly, it's hard to see how that wouldn't have a positive effect on the economy. Yeah. Which ultimately has a trickle down. The fans really do want people to be on Coke.

I feel like the memes on Twitter are, people are projecting, like, a lot. Yeah. And they're starting to search for cocaine where there's maybe just somebody who had a Celsius. Right. Realistically. Right. But it is funny. I don't know.

I don't know if it would, I don't know how much it would be performance enhancing. Isn't it hard to stay jacked if you're on Coke all day? I feel like cocaine makes you skinny. I'm sure. I'm sure it kills appetite. A lot of stimulants do because you just have better things to do than eat. Right?

You're locked in. You don't like lock, like, I've got to be fasted for 48 to 72 hours. to lock in eating a meal. You don't lock in when you're eating a meal. Even eating a nice meal, in my opinion, you're sort of just like, you know, good chit-chat, right? Yeah. Yeah, the weight loss thing was funny.

I think I texted you this the other day. I hadn't, at Senra's event, I hadn't been on, I don't have a scale at home. I hadn't been on a scale in like three months. And I step on a scale. And I was like, I honestly laughed because I, in three months since having my daughter, my wife had stopped, she stopped cooking. She's taking care of the baby. She's breastfeeding.

Like it's literally almost a 24-7 thing. So stop cooking. And so that period of time, I also was extremely locked in. and a combination of being locked in and Sarah not coming in being like, hey, like you haven't eaten in six hours, like eight hours, like here's some food. So just every single

day, 24 hour fast and drop 12 pounds in three months. Like, completely unintentionally. Not even like less. A pound a week. Not even less body fat. Just less muscle. Just less everything. Well, it's going to go into the winter bulk. Yeah, right.

Yeah, somebody said to me like, dude, what happened to you? like you look super skinny and I said I hadn't seen a scale so I didn't know and I was just kind of offended and then the truth was presented right yeah before my eyes anyways we got to talk about we got to talk about Zuck and I feel like you should probably launch into a to at least a 10-minute monologue on launching products oh man there's so many things here yeah It's such an interesting story. I mean, people are...

So, yeah, Meta launched these Orion augmented reality glasses. They look just like normal sunglasses or normal glasses, but they project holograms over on top of the lenses. So instead of doing the pass-through, like what the Apple Vision Pro does, where you're using cameras

and then reprojecting that onto a screen, you can just see the real world so the resolution is essentially infinite. It's the same thing that the Microsoft HoloLens did and that one company that didn't do very well, Meta. I mean, there's been so many cracks with this. Yeah, yeah. There's Google Glass too.

Google Glass was a little bit of that. It was kind of just like screen in the corner, but yeah. Yeah. But there's just like a million different weird things going on with this where the reaction from everyone that Meta invited to their like developer day to experience this, everyone was like so excited. It was like, this is amazing, this is incredible.

But if you look back at what happened when all of the same influencers got tours of the Apple Vision Pro, it was the same thing. They were all like, this is incredible, this is finally the breakthrough, I'm definitely gonna daily drive this. And I always think back to, you know the Pepsi Challenge? You remember this?

Like Pepsi versus Coke, this whole thing, this whole ad campaign they did where they would just go on the street and have people try Pepsi and try Coke and people would overwhelmingly select Pepsi. And the trick was that Pepsi was sweeter. And so they give you a one ounce shot and over one ounce people would prefer Pepsi, but over 16 ounces people would prefer Coke. Interesting. Because the sweetness would actually get to them. And so of course, like the market is actually roughly 50-50 between Coke and Pepsi, but over one ounce, people overwhelmingly prefer Pepsi. And so I'm just always worried with these VR demos that they set you up for an amazing 20-minute experience and they don't let anyone try one for a month straight.

Because, I mean, Ben Thompson was... I mean, you would kill the product before it actually got released. If Ben Thompson wore it for a month and was like... And was like, actually, I churned. Right? But you give it to him for 30 minutes and he's like, this is incredible. right yeah and so I'm always I'm always hesitant about that until like at this point if they want me to be stoked I need to see them give the product to someone for a month straight and then I need to know were they still using it were they still daily driving it after a month yeah because I had the I got the meta I got some right here oh nice yeah I ordered so I got these and I got these and I was like these are cool mostly for the video capture stuff

And I took them out of the box, put them on, set them up, went and drove my Ferrari, posted a video on social media, and within like 30 minutes, a local mom was commenting, like very angrily saying, like, don't ever drive like this around our house, like stuff like that. And it ended up starting a bunch of drama. And that was the last time I used my meta-ray band. So I had sort of a bad... Wait, wait, wait. Did she see the video?

She saw the video. Because you posted that online? The podometer, speedometer, was... Oh, wow. I thought it was, I thought it was fairly controlled. Everybody has their own. Everybody has their own perception of speed, right? Yeah.

I mean, you told me... I haven't used them since then. Yeah, yeah. You told me that you use them for a drive. So I actually, I kind of, like, unboxed these while I was driving, and just threw them on and was hoping. was hoping that I could just like put them on, press a button, and just start recording. But you can't.

You have to set them up. And this is something that always frustrates me about these meta products is that they just assume that you're like the biggest Facebook fanboy and that you have like, oh yeah, I'd love to log in. Oh yeah, I know what my Facebook. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, let's be realistic.

Not everyone wants to log in with these things. They should let you just turn them on, take a picture, and then say, hey, don't you want to log in to get your photos? Yeah. Push it down the road a little bit. I don't know who these, I don't know who that recording functionality is for, other than like the guys on Instagram that are like, hey, what do you do for a living? Maybe. I mean, I'm going to try and use these around the kids and the dogs and stuff and see if that's cool and see if that works.

I think there could be something there where it's like they are, they really are like as light as just normal wayfarers. So if, you know, if you're going to the beach, why not just have this on there? And I do think there is something legitimate about the sunglasses and the glasses being like the next computing platform, the next major consumer hardware category. Because if you look at the evolution, a lot of times the devices that have gotten really popular have been just like iterations of things that we've already come to expect and love like, or a ring is I think doing $500 million a year. And it's like, why is that doing so well?

companies aren't doing that well, at least not yet. And I think it's because people will just wear rings, so they just understand it. Apple Watch, it's like I already wear a watch, so I'll just throw on a watch, I get it. And then a lot of the- The question is, it'll be interesting to see with the Glasses market, because I am convinced,

I think we're both convinced that it is the next, or at least a complementary computing platform to your other devices. The question is, does it become like the smart watch market where there's just sort of like the dominant fang players and then kind of no one else. Like you still like, you know, wear a regular, you know, it's not like an actual replacement for what a lot of people use,

like watches for. Yeah. It'll be interesting to see if companies like meta continue to integrate with, like, existing silhouettes, like, you know, ray bands. Or if they go into the Orion route and it's just like, no, we're the platform, we're the device, we're the brand, this is the only thing that matters because like I can't see myself, wearing that frame, you know, the Orion frame, like ever.

But if you went to, I would start to get a lot. Why are you pronouncing it, though? It's Orion. Orion. Orion? Orion. Orion. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know.

Orion, Orion's belt. Yeah, Ryan's belt. Sorry, sorry. I mean, the frames were like kind of like built up to be like a dev kit, basically. Like, they're not shipping that yet. And they will wind up shipping in like a ray band frame. I mean, they have a pretty significant partnership with Sonica, the company behind ray bands, which is like this incredible monopoly. It's like a hundred billion dollars. Great company.

Wait, so imagine the feeling of ripping a bolt up, putting in an Excel and then putting on aviator versions of the Orion glasses and just locking in to a day at work like this. And you're just at work, you're just firing on all cylinders, typing on a holographic keyboard, just firing off emails. It's three years away. Three years out. Basically, yeah, I think so. Yeah, if we got invited to Demo Day, it could have been last week or two weeks ago. It is, yeah, there's so many. The Luxottica CEO reached out to Zuck, apparently, to be like, hey, we should do a deal.

This was years ago. Years ago. It was kind of like, oh, like, you have somebody on my team take this. And somebody on his team was like, no, like, you need to talk to this guy. And that's how they did the deal. So they just re-upped. I think they have a 10-year deal. It's exclusive.

and Luxottica is the sole hardware like well so they're completely vertically integrated so they they own Rayban they bought I think they bought Rayban in the 90s and then they jacked at the price and stopped selling it in gas stations and became this like luxury brand they bought a whole bunch of other I think they own Persol and a few other brands but then they own everything from the manufacturing to like the lens how they grind the lenses all that but then they also own the retail distribution they own lens crafters And so they have more, I think there's more lens crafter stores than there are Apple stores.

And so, and Meta, I think they bought 5% of Luxottica. And so you could see a world where meta winds up buying Lexotica. Lexotica also owns Supreme. And so there's this theory that like, oh, Zuck loves hype these cultures. So he's like, yeah, that's just a long time. But he clearly does love fashion. And so there is something. Yeah, he's working.

I didn't realize he's working on his new kind of cringe clothing. is with Mike Amiri. No, I think of the designer. Very, like, sort of hype-beasty. Like, if you listen to a rap song, every 10th song, we'll talk about, like, Amiri jeans or whatever. But I think, so the interesting thing,

meta versus Apple with the next-gen computing platform, and let's just ignore Snap, because they're going to continue to drive returns for their employees. Yep. no else, but which is kind of antithetical to everything that we believe in. Yes, exactly. But so this is the ultimate matchup of founder mode versus manager mode, right?

Which is like Tim Apple, you know, building, you know, Apple headsets, like trying to just sort of like iterate towards something great. Like, who knows, would Steve have, would Steve Jobs have put out that product or, would that have been an internal product for another three years before you could get to this platform? Yeah. Right. And Zuck, who's basically been his probably only insecurity besides that he's just deep down always going to be a nerd, is that he doesn't own the platform, right? Like that's what keeps him up at night. So that's like a, you know, basically like multi-decade effort to own the platform.

the next computing platform and own the hardware. Yeah, yeah. And I think glasses are a reasonable bet. Yeah, he's like... The problem is, is that the... There's just this weird, like, kind of, I don't know, user hostility when you set up one of these products.

It just doesn't feel like I'm in... It feels like I'm in conflict. It feels like I'm sparring with meta when I set something up like this. He just wants to make... It asked me to allow notifications on my phone, for this thing twice just before I could take a picture.

It's like, I remember I was testing the meta quest, I think it was the second one, the meta quest two, and I was like, I just want to go back to the time when you could take an N64, put in a cartridge, turn it on, and it would go, blink,

and then you'd just be playing Mario. Basically, analog. Basically immediately. Yeah. With the quest onboarding, Even after you've all set it up, you have to log in. There's six different logins now because I have a Facebook password, a meta password, an Instagram password, an Oculus password.

Wait, what if the meta raybans is just his way of trying to get to convince Wall Street that people still use Facebook? Because I had to like, I had to remember what my Facebook password is or whatever just to like get it working. I mean, if he could sell every Facebook user, a three three things. $800 a pair of glasses. I think he's going to be doing very well. But there was just this like, it was like the demand for like it has to be social features. You have to be logged in.

You have to be in their store. You have to be doing all this stuff. It just like took the surprise and delight completely out of it. Yeah. And I feel like with this, I mean it wasn't as bad, but it was still like, you could just tell. It was almost like I'm interacting with. two devices that are like a divorced mom and dad. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because it's like the Apple phone is like trying to kill this as hard as possible. So it's like, hey, just so you know they're going to track you. So do you want a track or no? Do you want a track or? Oh, they're going to want your contacts. So like, do you want contacts or not? Like, be careful. Like, this company's trying to fuck you.

And meanwhile. Be very careful. And these guys are like, well, we don't want you to use the phone at all. But like, also you have to install this app to use our thing. So we want to like get our hooks in there. But then it's just so adversarial. And like I just feel like I'm like torn between this and the core the core issue is that the meta PM who is making 200k a month Yeah the day before the day before one of their most important sprints

He got like a 50% sleep score so he was all thrown off Probably he comes into work he's pissed off right? Yeah, he's only had seven hours of sleep He starts chewing out the whole engineering team chewing out legal Yeah, and everybody's just kind of like oh like like you know let's just ship But meanwhile, you know, with an Apple product, like the designer is just like meditating for like 12 hours. And it's just like, let's just remove that part of the flow.

And then let's remove that part of the flow. Yeah, exactly. Let's just keep, let's just keep removing until you can just swim through at the user conditions. I mean, it's just, there's just so much like, I, maybe my expectations are too high for these companies, but it's like your trillion dollar company. me, why do I have to do a day one update? Like, I had to install a software update just to use it the first time.

It's like, just ship it with something that works basic and then let me upgrade later, like, once you converted me. And it's not even that, it's not even that, like, an extended setup process of, like, two hours is going to be bad for immediate conversion because, like, I'm going to get over that, but it's just going to leave a bad taste of my mouth. Like, this product doesn't care about me. I remember one of the most magical things was when the iPhone started shipping and they were fully charged. And now you go and you buy an iPhone and it's fully charged.

And so you leave the Apple store and you're like, wow, this is awesome. It just feels like they went a little bit farther. And that's got to be a little bit tricky. Well, Apple also improved over time. Like, don't you remember when it was like, you were like, oh, I'm switching phones? Like, it's going to be such a huge hassle. And now it's like, you know, they basically do it in the store. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The one thing that'll be interesting with glasses is glasses are always going to be a fashion statement of sorts. It's literally sitting on your, it's like, it's the window to the eyes, right? And not that that doesn't look fantastic, but you probably, if we're wearing glasses all the time, are going to want to have this recording. It looks, yeah, you are recording right now. No, so I think that it's possible people might have four or five different pairs of glasses. They might have, you know, like, they're often. I mean, if meta owns Luxottica, they're going to own all of the good.

basically. But I think Apple would be able to come in. And I mean, that's the big question that a lot of people have is like, okay, so meta announced this Orion prototype. It costs 10K to produce right now per unit. And it has like maybe a two hour battery life. Like there's a lot of problems

that they need to iron out. And so when Ben Thompson pushed Boz, it sounded like 2027 maybe. It's a consumer product. And so the question is like, does Apple have something that's adjacent? Yeah. So here's my big issue with headsets,

and I already have tin foil on the inside of my hat, so I'm all good. But basically, last time I checked deep in the Apple iPhone terms of service, there's stuff that literally says, like, don't hold this device up to your head. Like, hold it here. Really? Really for health reasons.

There is proof that, like, the radiation, even though it's non-ionizing or whatever that your phone admits is not something that you want that close to your body, right? It's why, you know, it's why there's a bunch of brands popping up that are like we're like EMF-proof underwear because if you're putting your, it's a big, big possibility that having your phone next to your reproductive organs could be contributing to the fertility crisis and, like, other downrange issues.

So for me, I'm looking at it as, as, what I don't know if there's anything that will ever be able to mitigate that right and so if I'm not comfortable I never I haven't taken a phone call with my phone up to my ear I'm like you know the the asshole with wired headphones wired headphones or if I'm in a public space I'll put on speaker and just keep it quiet because I just don't it's seemingly like unnecessary risk to have your phone like slapped here so that's my big thing is like okay if this is the next computing platform like how do we ensure that we all don't get like turbo brain cancer then you know and that that feels like a very unanswered question that historically both the cellular networks and consumer product consumer

electronics companies have completely ignored except they tend to bury stuff in their terms that say like don't use this for three hours straight or whatever because it like it will literally like heat up the inside of your of your brain like deep into your brain if you just hold it up there and so that again it's like a big question that I have and I think it's worth somebody funding like an entire documentary on cell phones because there's so much emphasis on how cellular device like the things that we do on our devices are bad for us doom scrolling you know the dating apps and things like that, but there's actual like the physical, like physical potentially risk of the device and constantly being attached to it because we're sort of electrical beings that are absorbing

a lot of different types of radiation at all times, but, you know, basically absorbing really concentrated doses of it can, you know, is a risk factor. Yeah. I think there's definitely something to be said for like there's just like this generational change of like some sort of pollutant that we find out later like in the 70s it was like lead yeah and then asbestos yeah yeah yeah and like lead made everyone I mean there's this theory that like lead made everyone insane and like aggressive and that's why there's like a crime wave and a murder spike and then it's like maybe we cut out the lead and we increase the plastics and then everyone gets really docile and doesn't have kids infertile and so it's like balancing these toxicants over time well the funny thing with lead is that lead

actually stops a lot of electromagnetic radiation. So if you had lead paint in your house, you probably wouldn't get cell service. Interesting. So I think we're actually gonna see a trend back towards using lead paint in bedrooms. Because if you want to create an environment in your room that doesn't have-

I mean, there's other ways to build a Faraday cage, if you want. Yeah, but it's actually pretty efficient to be like, let's just paint all the walls. Yeah, but you get lead poisoning. I don't know if, I don't know if it's actually been proven that the lead from paint. It's like the whole like kids are going to eat the paint chips or whatever. And there's other ways to do it.

You could paint one layer of lead and then paint over it, right? Yeah. So anyways, I'm going to get into the lead painting business. We're bringing back lead. You're going to get some leaded gasoline. Consumer electronics are out of lead gasoline. Yeah, lead gasoline. For some reason I don't think lead is coming back.

I think the answer may be. Well, it still isn't it still? Isn't it still used in x-ray, like when you're getting an x-ray? Don't give you this lead vest? Yeah, like a lead bast. So lead is never left. It doesn't need to come back. It's always been with us.

And it is insulated in... It's the ante here, you know, it's sort of... People used to chew, like, pencil lead. Like, kids used to be, like, you know, nervously chewing a pencil and... The original Excel. It just gets you more angry. And, like, you become a murderer or something. Yeah.

Should you talk about that? BHD app. Yeah. I thought it was too cheap. Too cheap. Too cheap. 50 bucks a year. For that quality wallpaper.

You got to go higher. Yeah. You got to go higher. No, it's funny. Like, I was seriously thinking, like, why is everyone complaining just don't buy this? You know? Like, yeah, it's 50 bucks. Well, no, this is a thing.

But it's because he is a critic. And so there's this, like, people, like, criticizing the critic. And that's why they're so. excited about it. But did you have a hot take about it? It was kind of interesting. I mean, yeah, here's my thing. Anybody whose job is to criticize

is the number one target for all criticism, right? It doesn't matter if you are like a poster who is posting, right? And you just like have hot takes all the time, even hot takes. But I think he's just built up such a reputation of doing takedowns. And usually they're, I think they're very fair.

for the most part. 100%. The Fisker Ocean S&V literally doesn't work anymore. I think the only criticism is just that it seemed like to be a pretty poorly made app.

I don't have any issue with him coming out and I don't have any issue with him coming out and trying to sell user names for 50 bucks a month. Or sorry, not usernames. Wallpapers. Wallpapers. No issue with that at all.

It's just like, I don't know, like have some good taste and, you know, dev shops or partners, right? Like, there's sort of this aesthetic issue with it that I have, which is, like, you review technology and you put out a shitty app. It doesn't matter that I think the products also pretty, like, to me, the product's shitty. I'm never going to do that. You know, family men, we have, there's only one thing that should be on your wallpaper,

your wife and children, right? Or the office. Or the office. Yeah, or your super evil megacorp logo. Just remind yourself that. Yeah, yeah. During the daytime, you know, and then when you get swapped back. No, so I just think that I have like sort of a general issue with the aesthetics of being the tech reviewer that puts out a poorly made app, which it was.

Like it got completely torn apart. Yeah, yeah, reverse engineered, everyone stole everything. And then also just like the implementation of the ad flow was just, that has always clunky. It had an ad? Yeah, so basically you would. would, you install the app, and then you browse for wallpapers. And there are some that look nice. Yeah.

They look fine. You can actually just screenshot them and zoom in. It's very weird. Because they have to show them to you, so you can just screenshot them. You don't get the full thing. It only shows you like three quarters, so then you have to zoom it a little bit. That's enough. But it's fine.

It's weird. But the weird thing is that if you want standard definition, which is like low res, which I think is actually HD, So people were weirded out about that because this whole brand is MKB HD, like high definition, and he's selling a standard definition product instead of giving you the high definition and having you upgrade to the 4K version. But if you want the standard definition, you click and you have to watch two ads. And that's why they were asking for location targeting, because if you don't have someone's

location, the ad rates will plummet. And so you need to know where people are, roughly. Just the course locations, what's important? but they asked for fine-grained. So it was kind of like a sloppy implementation. But just if you're in an app and an ad pops up, it feels like there's this iOS like widget basically that a lot of mobile games use

and a lot of just kind of like cheap apps that you download to do like one thing. Like oh, like this is the difference between like some app that just like puts subtitles at the bottom and like the captions app. The captions app is like venture funded. it has a subscription, it's expensive, but it's the highest quality, and it's like crafts.

It's a beautiful app that works really, really well. I use it all the time. And the reason is if they just popped up an ad, I would be like, oh, this is like so annoying, and it's like this unskippable thing, and like the X is in the corner, and you've got to go find it, and it's all blended in and stuff. And so that was just kind of like a mediocre experience.

And then I think once people started digging in, they started digging into every little thing. And they found that, like, one of the artists on the app had put up a wallpaper that was just the color orange. And it's like, you don't need to pay for that at all because you can just make that in two seconds in anything. Take a picture of it orange and just zoom in.

Exactly. There's a million different ways to just make your background orange if you want. But yeah. I think something that's funny is it feels like a very vintage app. Like this is the kind of like quality and idea that should have dropped the year that the app store opened. Yeah, exactly. Flashlight app.

They're definitely, yeah, Flashlight app. It feels kind of like to add. I think the better, MKBHD has done some smart partnerships. Ridge Wallet. Ridge Wallet. Fantastic. Close friends with Sean and Connor, the CMO. I think that was like a very smart partnership from both sides for them to come together.

He's a big eight sleep advertiser. Yeah. He does a great job with those. Yeah. How can you not, right? It's fantastic. ate sleep if you're listening sleep on a regular organic cotton mattress so we're always open to our sleep partners at the world's most profitable podcast but but I think what I think what happened

with like it's weird because there there is a there is a correct way to introduce a 50 dollar a year subscription wallpaper app but I think it's the call of duty method have you ever played any of games? Yeah, of course. Okay, so like Call of Duty. Core memory. I basically spawned in to Rust. Exactly. Sponded to R Us. I just like have no memories and the 360 no scoping off of the tower. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so Call of Duty, the monetization like has ramped up a ton. Yeah. But they reset the, like the shittiness of the monetization every single cycle. So they're on annual cycle, essentially. Every year they come out with a new game. And every year you buy the game and it's $60. And there's no pay-to-win mechanics.

There's no battle pass. There's nothing you can pay for. And everyone's like, oh, thank God. Like, this one isn't pay to win. And everyone's like, good. Like, I just got all the content that I wanted. And I get to, you know, make the decision of like, what do I get and what's the price and isn't good or bad?

And everyone's like, oh, it's a 7 out of 10 every time. And people play it. But over time, what happens is that, like, the normy call of duty person comes on. They play the campaign. and they play a little bit of multiplayer, maybe they get to the prestige level one, they unlock all the guns, and then they're kind of done after like a month.

They get burned out. Those people kind of fade off, but the really hardcore fans will play the full year until the next one comes out. And the really, really hardcore ones will stay on for an extra year on the game that they love. And so the monetization just keeps ramping up

during that time, and they sell more and more skins and more and more stuff. And so if you go and look at, like the, like a review, a day one review of a college duty that came out in 2020 or something like that. Like the new modern warfare. The reviews from the day it launched will be like,

this is a reasonable modernization program. But if you talk to the influencers that stuck with it, they'll be like, it's the worst thing ever, it's pay to win, and there's, you know, you can sing, there's loot boxes and gambling now, and they've added all this stuff on. And, but he do that very deliberately. because they only introduce it to people that are already in the ecosystem.

Sucked in. They're like, I've spent three grand on this game. I'm going to spend the next $200. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's funny. I used to worry as a kid, I was like, are we running out of wars they can make games about right?

Right? Because it felt like they went from like they did World War I. They did World War II. Yep. And then Black Ops was Vietnam, right? And then when do they introduce? Well, they did the future. wars. They did the future ones, but eventually it seems like here's a, here's a, here's a take.

Do they do Operation Iraqi freedom like in the next 10 years? Like, oh, in call of duty. Yeah, that would be crazy. I don't think they've ever done that, right? They've done modern warfare and it's like in the general area that's abstract. It's generally too offensive. But it's abstract. Like it's too like if you did a war from within the last 20 years, it would be, but ultimately that would probably be the best-selling version of Call of Duty. Yeah, it is crazy because they'll do ones where it's like, oh, you're fighting terrorists in the Middle East, but it's not just

like straight-up kill of some blood. I used to enjoy the missions, you know, in the context of my great-grandpa was like a fighter pilot and got shot down like multiple times and I used to be...

Yeah, yeah. He was... How do you... So he started... So this guy is a legend. It's insane. Pearl Harbor happens, he enlists lies about his age to get in. Small dude becomes a the rear gunner in like B-52 bombers.

Does two tours get shot down twice. Wow. Makes it out and then trains to be the P-51. What's like, what was the best fighter? Yeah, Mustang. The Mustang. Yeah.

Trains to be a Mustang pilot and is in route to the Pacific. theater when the war ended finally. Wow. Anyways, tough, tough, tough bastard. Yeah, so to bring it back to MKVD, I think what he should have done is he should have just launched with something, just go for just the installs.

Just free, no ads, no tracking, just get everyone to install this thing, and then see where you're at. And then once you have everyone's email and you've captured everyone and you know who actually likes it, who actually likes it, then you no longer have to message to your whole YouTube community. Because he put this out on, he did basically a sponsored read on his own YouTube channel introducing the app. That goes out to 12 million people or something like that. Yeah. But there's probably a subset of like 100,000 people that are actually down for this. And I mean, Nikita Nier was saying that he's going to make like three million a year off this.

Well, yeah, and the funny thing is, I mean, the good thing is when you have a really big audience like that and people generally like you. you get multiple chances. So he'll probably still get to that end state. But three million a year for somebody who makes probably 15 million. I have no idea how much money he makes. It's a large organization at this point. Yeah.

And I'm sure that Dell would be like, we'll give you $5 million a year to cover us a few times or whatever. That might road trust more than this, honestly. At least this is trying. But regardless, yeah, he could have gotten those power. tell, Jesus, like, the guy reviews iPhones and Android phones. Yeah, but the whole, that's the thing with being creators, right? If you get big enough, you have to sell out to keep, to keep the monitor, to keep growing, right?

I mean, there is something to, for, like, unless you have your own. Yeah, you want to own your own product. Yeah, and that's clearly where he's going with this. And he did say that he wants to, like, add some other stuff to it, and maybe it won't be just, like, a lull paper out forever. What if you could AI generate a family? So if you're an in-cell, you could, you could. On the panels app, that's what this guy is. Well, that's just what I associate with wallpapers.

Oh, yeah. Because it's supposed to be your family. Yeah, this is very, very odd. Wait. This is great. I just want you, you're just going to see this email in last. Look at the subject. Oh.

Well, should we talk about another kind of iffy launch, pair AI? Dude, these guys' response was honestly really good, I thought. Like, they kind of did what they needed to do. They just posted through it and sort of, like, reclaim their honor, which was like they had posted. I think it was sort of disingenuous the way they said, we, you know, we forked this and didn't mention that we also had forked this other thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they had put out a video three months prior to this launch. Oh, really? saying that, saying exactly what it is. Yeah, yeah. So it's not like there was a history of misleading people about what their product was. Yeah, and I mean in AI there have been a number of those

where later there's been a question about like, who owns, like stability AI went through a whole thing with this with like who owns the IP and where does this sit? What's the relationship? Like this seems pretty simple. It is kind of silly because it's like, we just forked this. But I mean, I don't know. I don't, like, I mean, I guess there is a question about, like, you know, literally the licenses,

like certain licenses, you can fork them, but then you can't sell what you're forking. And that's the problem. But, I mean, there are big businesses that, like Red Hat is a huge, huge, a multi-billion dollar company. And it's a fork of Linux. Like, it's, that's, that's the Red Hat strategy. And there's a few of those. And I could see, I could see a company winning in open source AI in that way. Yeah.

I don't think that that's that crazy. I don't know about this specific thing. Yeah, I don't know. I'm kind of, it's funny, I'm sort of generally bearish on the company purely because of the space that they're in and how competitive it is and how it's hard to imagine that, you know, I think that there's a huge willingness to try new tools right now because everything's changing so quickly, but is the YC company with 500K and like a bunch of haters going to actually win. in now because like I think having the part of why punch part of why developers love stripe is because they have a lot of respect and admiration for the Carlson brothers and so is the average

developer like I kind of want to back pair just despite the haters but I'm not like but I think it's like these founders are probably going to be very successful will pair AI be successful yeah there is an interesting question very unclear like what type of organization does need an open source AI code editor. Like, there are lots of places where it's like, okay, why would you want open source in that particular part of your text act?

Like, well, you know, it's flexibility around a specific thing. Avoiding lock-in to a specific thing. Like, why go with, you know, Postgres as opposed to Oracle database? Well, like, there's a lot more flexibility that comes with that. But in the code editor space, it's like, that's usually more. on the developer side, like individual, like, developer decision. I think, kind of unclear, but. Yeah, I think one factor is, it's not like everybody, like, this next one.

I guess we do in turbo, I guess we do in turbo retarded Gen Z founders now. It's like, this is not new. YC has always backed, I won't use that same language, always backed young technical founders that were just like very ambitious, that we're going to do whatever it took to win. Yeah. And the model is like proven beyond a doubt, right? There's been a lot of like fud lately on people being like, oh,

why she's last six batches? There's not that many unicorns. It's like, okay. I don't think there ever was like that. You know, sometimes you get breakout companies or whatever. But I think the difference now is tech is so mainstream that these guys are coming in. They already have a YouTube channel that's super active. I think I printed out that Delian tweet below, which is really, really interesting,

which is like, yeah, like when the 4U page and the algorithm, like these guys know how to go viral. That's clear from the way they wrote this tweet. I just quit my $270,000 job at Coinbase. Like this is clickbait, and they got a ton of attention. Yeah. But even if you wrote this tweet, you know, 10 years ago, you would not be the front page of the Internet necessarily for your start.

It would be much harder to break through. I'm trying to see if this guy has a Cartier craft. on, which would be like a crazy piece to just have on. Because it's basically like you'd, I don't know, you'd have to spend like the entire. YC check on your watch. But, yeah, they definitely seem like, you know, they definitely understand going viral. Yeah. I'm bullish on these guys, bearish on Perry.

Yeah. And we'll. But who knows where they will wind up? Yeah. If it's a real YC company, they'll pivot twice more. Exactly. There'll be a closed source code editor. Hey, actually, we didn't like being so open about what we're working on.

Like, we're just going to build software. I mean, all bets are off. You can be non-profit and then be worth $157 billion. You know, you don't need to. Oh, yeah. People fudding Y Combinator as if OpenAI is not a YC company. Yeah. Like.

Came directly out of YC. Yeah. Yeah. You got to include that in the recent, in the recent, history. It's like the most important technology ever. I mean, like, you can say whatever you want about the financial ownership or whatever, but like it's clearly like they made something cool that everyone uses and it's awesome.

And like a lot of people have built other things based on it because of that. We love the economy, so we love a for-profit organization. I am so much happier now. if every convert every single nonprofit into a profit that is doing homeless related work in LA into a for-profit and I guarantee you it solves the it solves the homeless issue and two weeks seems reasonable what else should we do should we do this the longshoreman yeah we can talk about that I don't really know that much about it I know that I know that I well stuff stuck in the middle of this yeah this is not about

being informed. This is about sharing opinions and you don't need to be informed to have an opinion. That's true. Put that on the record. I mean this guy just had I mean he looks like he's a character out of, he's like the villain out of a movie

where like the next stage of this mutiny is like they just rebel and like secede from the union and like the ports the ports become, you know, the beginning of, like, the new, you know, America riffs, but not in, like, you know. But anyways, I think this is, like, a pretty, somebody compared it to organized crime, and I think that's, like, pretty on point where it's effectively just, I mean, who knows, right?

I think from his point of view, he's doing his job. He gets paid, like, about a million. a year to represent his people. I mean, people quote tweeted and were like, this guy makes $780K, but it's like, that's not that much.

That's less than like a thing, like level one new grad these days. So it's like, is this guy really, I don't know. I'm not really buying the whole villain thing. I think it ultimately backfires in a big way, right? Because everybody's like,

oh yeah, we actually really do need automation. We shouldn't be dependent on like a bunch of, it does seem like a mess. Yeah, we shouldn't be dependent on a bunch of angry, value extractors that basically have a monopoly. Yeah, I do wonder how it fits in with the election. Like the strike began October 1st, election is in November.

There's some sort of Taft-Hartley thing that the president can do to kind of force them to go back to work, which would like alleviate it for four weeks or something. Which could time up perfectly so that you're not feeling it when you're voting essentially. and then you start feeling it right when it's done. So it's just like odd timing. But, yeah. I mean, Ryan Peterson seems like he's like pretty bullish right now ending soon or like, you know, optimistic.

Yeah. That it will resolve. But. Yeah, I think Ryan Peterson has, needs to verticalize and own ports. You know, otherwise he's just going to take like 20 years off his life, all the stress. You know, like, he needs to own, he needs to own all the land within a hundred miles of

the water in Yemen, right? Like, he needs to own the boats. He needs to own, he needs to privatize the Navy. He needs to privatize the ports. Yeah. Just so he can get a good night's sleep. Yeah, let's get Flexport and Navy for sure. I think we can probably skip this one.

I don't feel the need to, like, throw this kid under the bus. I did think, like, this is my least favorite form of, of ad right now is like AI generated slop. It's not AI generated though. It's not? No. It's literally just normal editing. Really?

Just the booby clips and stuff in pictures. Yeah, but for some reason it felt so wet. It felt so whack compared to the Excel was doing like handcrafted editing. Did you see the other one that launched yesterday? The one that was like developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers. Did you see that one? No. It was Resolve AI. Did you see this? This one was great. See this is good. Yeah, this is good, right? This is the same format. It's just real. See, this is the same format, though, as the original Founders Fund hype reel, which we copied

that capital and then a bunch of other people and now it's in the Zykeyes, and now the format's dead. It is. So sorry to whoever, did you edit that video? for founders? No, it was Mike Petriano. Yeah, Mike did a great thing. He did. We remixed it. He created a, yeah, he created a monster.

And then it's just like, yeah, it's done. I mean, it's a very fun format. I just wouldn't do it as a company today. Yeah, I mean, I guess the question is, like, how do you break through? Because, like, I mean, this launch for this, like, what's it called, rewind, yeah, resolve AI.

It's, I mean, it's like, it would be pretty hard to get a million views on your launch video otherwise or like your launch something. So like what do you do rather than just like a vibe real that can go viral on X? It's hard.

Build something great. Yeah. Takes time. Copy and open source. Got it. Yeah, create a controversy. Honestly. No video needed.

Yeah, be the villain. Yeah, the heel. Be the heel or not the face. That's funny. Oh. I don't know. okay do we want to talk about the David center of it yeah where was it so funny so Austin Texas yeah amazing space that it was basically it's basically like a hotel that is

kind of like I mean it has sort of like some some continuous use for some I think foundation out there but founders podcasts and business breaks down, hosted an event. There was like 120-ish people there, know other people on the property, which was cool. So you'd just be like, you know, doing something random at the gym. You'd strike up a conversation, et cetera. Amazing, amazing group of people, I would say, felt like at least 10% of the people there had a net worth of over a billion dollars, which is like hard to get in the same sort of like, you know, acre. that often unless you're in Davas.

He's very good at doing that, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think, and the funny thing, this story came up a few times, but at Capital, we were one of the first advertisers of Founders' Podcasts. Really? And at the time, it's so funny, what, like, two years does,

I think we paid him, like, 5,000 for the quarter. Wow. And now it's, it's like, you need to be doing, like, a seven-figure multi-year deal to even enter the conversation, and he's probably going to be like, yeah, it's not a fit. But anyways, David's amazing.

Matt, the other host, is awesome too. It was an interesting situation because it was clear, like, there were some really great panels, but it was almost like the panels were just, like, dead time because the second you'd leave a panel and just start talking, there were so many great people. And David kept saying, like, I want to do a conference with no one. panels. It's just like the space, which I think is

great. I've done that. It works well. Yeah. And ultimately, I think David left the weekend being like I'm not. I don't even I don't think he's ever going to do one again. But it was funny because he just would rather host a group of people. I think the retreat with

no content is fine. Yeah, yeah, maybe. But it was almost I told him you should have a retreat for your audience and don't even go. because there's so much value in just connecting with other people that are like-minded. And so you phone in and do your panel, hey everyone, I'm so happy that you guys are all together.

He's on the Venetian Islands because the challenge is it's really enjoyable for everyone except for him who's basically like 48-hour period where people are grabbing him and all this stuff. But anyways, I think people were generally respectful. It was good. funny like almost you know people that I was hanging out with Jackson Dahl Bryce from Indy VC Justin Mears Jeremy Gaffan David Perel like Georgeinson people like that I don't think any one of those people like had more than like a single one or two drinks the entire weekend even there's an open bar

like the entire time so it was interesting to to really see like the death of alcohol like pretty you know pretty pretty plainly the only people that were getting out absolutely hammered was with some of the old guard which was fun I was asking them you know this this guy's like borderline like blacked out only person that I think was truly like drunk in the whole event on Friday night and I was like how does it feel to just be old and just loaded you know and he's just like laughing and he's like yeah like dude you you like busted your ass for four decades you deserve to be the only person that's blacked out here and i actually appreciate it yeah yeah nobody's got

time to be hung over tomorrow but um yeah fantastic event and david uh when you listen to this host a retreat where you're not there you're not there call in from the venetian aisles i think i think I think this community would appreciate it. I know a lot of people came out of it. I mean, I was in the, it's funny at the very end, I was staying an extra night in Austin to see a portfolio founder the next day. And this guy's like, hey, does anybody want to split an Uber? And I'm going downtown.

I was like, sure, let's do it. And we get in the car. It wasn't really like, you know, we, I'd never met the guy that weekend. We were talking about what we, what, um, what each of us do and he's like, oh yeah, I run like a $6 billion hedge fund, you know, in London, you know. It's just like, so it's like that

quality of people. But anyways, if it happens again, I'll be back. There needed to be, everybody there was very Excel curious or already an active user. A DUU. We measure our customer base in DAU, not a traditional sales volume.

But yeah, that was great. The other thing over the weekend, I feel like I kept opening my phone and people would be talking about Excel in my mentions. Do you want to talk about that screenshot I sent you? Maybe we should do that. So anyways, we got our first honest review of Excel nicotine pouches from Capital Cowboy on X. He says, for anyone curious, here's my honest review.

of Excel, better, smoother flavor than any Zen I've had, last significantly longer too, had my cousin that can't handle Nick, upset stomach at three milligrams, try these, and he said you got all the buzz without the stomach issues. So that is the power of Excel. Obviously, I asked him, have you noticed anything different with your returns? Most users report improvements after using Excel and Cowboy said I actually got a promotion after using Excel no joke and he said his buddy Mark got a promotion as well and Mark said using it and got a promotion a week after switching to the brand shit works and I said all it did all it did was make you more you right because you on nicotine is you on your best day right

it's you on 100% sleep score, you know, fully locked in. So anyways, the reactions have been, reactions have been great. If you're a user and you have any comments, feedbacks, product suggestions, or if you're interested in debt financing through the Excel brand, reach out. Yeah, sounds good.

Should we do this viral chain letter? I think this thing is so funny. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I have to start by saying I actually don't know if I have a copy of this one. So a bunch of celebrities have been sharing a copy pasta text meme on their Instagrams. And it says, goodbye meta AI. Please note an attorney has advised us to put this on.

Failure to do so may result in legal consequences. As meta is now a public entity, all space space, space. All members must post a similar statement. If you do not post at least once, it will be assumed you are okay with them using your information and photos. I do not give meta or anyone else permission to use any of my personal data, profile information or photos. And the amazing thing is that meta has appended,

see why fact checkers say this is false. They added the fact check like, like modal, like over it to just be like, just saying you know this is misinformation. It's just so funny. Tom Brady posted it. Really? Yeah, Julianne Moore and a bunch of other people.

And it's just so funny. It's so boomer. I remember this happening like at the dawn of Facebook, like maybe 10 years ago. And it's still happening. It would be like they changed the terms of service. One skits or person posts this like ramble. Somebody posts just like an absolute ramble.

Yeah. And then it somehow picks up. And I only saw it on honestly, shout out to the people that I follow. Yeah. Because I only saw one person post it. Oh, unironically. Unironically. And that guy formally ran a public company.

Oh my gosh. So that was a bit concerning to me because I, because I, yeah, I honestly, yeah. I mean, it's just like, I get being a boomer and not understanding how the internet works and being confused and stuff. But I would just rewrite it. A, rewrite it, but B, like, is there any scenario as a public company where, you know, it's like, this is like the equivalent of, I don't know, like, like holding up a sign outside of the, outside of the White House and just being like, I want you to, you know. Yeah. It just makes no sense how this would be like legally binding or any sort of like way to. On an ephemeral story.

Yeah. Yeah. On an ephemeral story. How is this in all the way that you interact with a company, right? Yeah. It's like leaving a review on a restaurant and expecting that to be like illegally minded and it's funny because if people are scraping your profile for data, which they are to train models. The AI, like the scraper like shows up on John at John Cugan.

Yeah. And they just start like sniffing around. And they're like, and then they see like, oh, you added a story highlight. and three months ago he posted this and the scraper goes, hmm, okay, let's get out of here. This person is really stupid. Or meta is just like, who stores the data? What if it actually winds up working?

Because the AI is like, oh yeah, we don't want to train on people that you are. That could really open up some liability. Are this gullible? You don't want to train on this people. But meta, who already hosts all your data and tracks every single thing you do on the app to use.

and they're like, yeah, yeah, this guy's big, big no-no on this guy. At the same time, like, the fact that this keeps happening does say something about humanity. But also, it's like, it should be somewhat of a wake-up call to meta and, like, the actual employees there. But, like, your consumers don't understand you at all. You need to probably do better to educate them about how things work. Which is why I'm long on Zuck's personal conquest and value creation. And I'm a fan of him. I'm short on his public image because I think him getting cocky again

and wearing shirts that say Zuck is inevitable. And meta still being basically going to be at the epicenter of all this drama around AI and generated content. and all this stuff is like very short his public image. I think he enjoyed like a sort of temporary sort of, you know, basically two-year period. I do want him to mix it up because it's like, so he's this like fashion god now and is wearing like streetwear and like baggy t-shirts.

Colin Valor. But yeah. But like there is a way for him to wear like an impeccable suit. Yeah. And and apply the same. the same thought process to looking to looking fantastic but it's just in a suit. Yeah. And just do. I mean, we just say that because it would be good for. Of course. But like, like, it's, it is interesting that like he's, he's applied like I,

I now take fashion seriously, but I only apply it in this one very narrow like section of fashion. Like I want to see him look as fashionable, but also in a suit or also. So in a variety of things. Yeah, or just like dress your age. Just like have, yeah, have some more like reach and some, and I think if he broadens out a little bit, he can class it up or dress it down and he'll have more flexibility there. He clearly found like a wheelhouse and he's just like doubling down on that

and he's gotten really good at it. He's like an algorithm. Yeah. He's literally like an algorithm. He's like, wow, they liked when I wakeboard. So they didn't like when I wakeboarded with all the sunscreen. But when I wakeboard and I hold a flag, people like that.

a little bit of a filter. I'm going to, okay, then if people like flags and wakeboarding, they probably like beef. I'm going to show them my cattle ranch, right? And then they're like, oh, I wore a watch and they like that. So I'm going to get a more expensive watch than like an even bigger hitter of a piece. But that only, that goes so like that you eventually get a negative reaction to that sort of doubling, doubling down on everything. Yeah, I wonder where that will come from.

I mean, he's done a fantastic guy. No, to me, to me, to me, the shirt, the, the, the, the, the, the, a mere shirt that says Zuck is inevitable is, it's like, dude, you're obviously inevitable, you're a force. Yeah. You don't need to, if you telling people you're inevitable is cringe, right? People will already say that behind your back. Yeah, it's like a victory lap. like for what reason just just deliver I can't use sunglasses without logging into your

deliver returns to shareholders yeah that's the only thing that matters when when the stock eventually drops people will be they'll they'll take pictures of that shirt and make it say like you know 500 billion dollar market cap is inevitable you know down from Do you think it was just a funny joke? Do you think there's something to that? Is it funny? It might be funny. If you've got to ask yourself, is it funny?

It's probably not. Every time I take something too far, I break character. So I think that there's always this layer of humor that is different when it's coming from somewhat as powerful as Zuck or Elon. I keep thinking about, for years, I was like, I love Elon, but man, these child like, the child like humor is just not hitting with me. Yeah. The 69, 420 is just not funny to me until he was in this interview with the BBC reporter and he says, do you like BBC? And it was so stupid. It's such a stupid joke. But he was laughing super hard. Yeah. And I was like, this is actually hilarious. Not because do you ask a BBC reporter?

Do you like BBC? Is that funny? It's funny because it's the world's richest man who's super powerful asking a reporter that. The context matters. And so, yeah, this one, I'm not sure if that funny. Here's what would be funny to me. If Zuck was on his hydrofoil wakeboard, you know, doing his thing in his meta glasses,

and then in the scenery, and he's in Kauai or whatever, is in his retreat. And on the hillside behind him, it's literally, like, using a lawnmower, like, carved into the grass. It says, like, Zuck is inevitable. And it's not, like, so front and center.

That would be funny, because seeing that image of him just, like, riding his little, like, hydrofoil thing. And then you're like, wait, did he carved in, like, a football field of grass? Like, Zuck is inevitable. Like, that's cool. That's ridiculous.

Make a monument. Yeah. Or, yeah, so. Yeah. Zuck, when you listen to this, make monuments. He, I mean, he made a monument in his backyard of his wife. Oh, yeah. That was a piece.

Yeah. Seriously, he's going to do some stuff. I don't know. I think. I respect Zuck. Yeah. I don't know where. There's just a difference, though, and like what I'm talking about is, like,

respect versus likability. And I'll always respect him. Yeah. I've gone through periods where I sort of like him and I don't like him. And not that it matters, but for him, he clearly cares about what people think about him. Yeah. So my advice would be, you know, dial it back. And I just think people, you know, he has like a PR team around him and like image consultants and stylists and stuff like that.

It's like just be more, be more creative. you know yeah definitely needs more breadth yeah to the stunts and whatnot more and more humor and more fun more fun