TBPN - Palmer Luckey: Why I Started My Own Bank

Episode Date: February 20, 2026

This is our full interview with Palmer Luckey, recorded live on TBPN.We discuss launching Erebor, a bank built for deep tech after SVB’s collapse, the push toward 24/7 dollar-backed stablecoin settlement, what it means to align a financial institution with U.S. interests, the gaming industry’s shift from innovation to extraction, and the future of VR.TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays from 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with full episodes posted to podcast platforms immediately after.Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” TBPN has recently featured Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella.Sign up for TBPN’s daily newsletter at TBPN.comTBPN.com is made possible by:Ramp - https://Ramp.comAppLovin - https://axon.aiCisco - https://www.cisco.comCognition - https://cognition.aiConsole - https://console.comCrowdStrike - https://crowdstrike.comElevenLabs - https://elevenlabs.ioFigma - https://figma.comFin - https://fin.aiGemini - https://gemini.google.comGraphite - https://graphite.comGusto - https://gusto.com/tbpnKalshi - https://kalshi.comLabelbox - https://labelbox.comLambda - https://lambda.aiLinear - https://linear.appMongoDB - https://mongodb.comNYSE - https://nyse.comOkta - https://www.okta.comPhantom - https://phantom.com/cashPlaid - https://plaid.comPublic - https://public.comRailway - https://railway.comRamp - https://ramp.comRestream - https://restream.ioSentry - https://sentry.ioShopify - https://shopify.comTurbopuffer - https://turbopuffer.comVanta - https://vanta.comVibe - https://vibe.coFollow TBPN:https://TBPN.comhttps://x.com/tbpnhttps://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive

We have Palmer lucky in the re-stream waiting room. Let's bring him in to the TBPN Ultradown. Palmer, how are you doing? You are live. You are live, sir. Can you hear you hear you? Yep, I hear you loud and clear, though, with a little bit of delay, so we'll try to keep it zippy. Well, we're going to say probably five words in total, and you're just going to go crazy.

Tell us what's happening. Tell us what's happening. So, I mean, Trump is complaining about tariffs. Iran is on the brink of war and Arab war, the new bank for the tech community building things that actually matter has officially received its charter and become operational. So it's a pretty good set of things that are going on. Big hit. Congratulations.

Big hit. Take us back in time. When did this project start? What was the inciting element? Why is this important? How did you pick this to work on? Look, there's a lot of things that I could point to, but it really boils down to. I've been looking at starting a bank for a while, primarily for my own personal use,

because there weren't banks out there that really understood my business, my businesses, the things that I was doing. Silicon Valley Bank was doing a reasonable job, but then they went out of business and took everybody's money with them and had to have the government bail everybody out. I think that was really kind of the thing that got me very serious about it. I realized that you didn't have banks that were aligned with the United States, interests that were aligned with deep tech, hard tech, energy, the things that are really complex and hard to understand, but that do really matter, that could also serve them in a meaningful way.

I mean, you have farmers' banks that serve communities that are doing agriculture. You have banks, certainly that are doing oil and gas quite well, but when it comes to tech, it's a pretty sparse field. And so I started to think, well, how do you build a bank? that could serve those things. How could you do it in a very conservative way, very, very low risk way where you can ensure you're not gonna go out of business,

you're not gonna force everyone to rely on government bailouts. You may not be able to survive a total financial collapse. Banks rarely can, but you can at least be the last man standing. And so thinking about that, and then also a lot of things that new technology enables, like using US dollar back to cryptocurrencies to have 365, 24-7 settlement of payments, which is something that a lot of businesses need

and very few get, you can. you kind of tack all these things together and it becomes clear that there's room for a company to be a real bank for real companies doing real things. So is there a network effect there? Because if I'm on Aibor and Jordi's on Aribor and we can both have 24-7 settlement, but someone else is on a different bank and they don't have 24-7 settlement, we're going to have a good experience and then maybe to get out of the network. How does that work?

I think that there will be network effects, but to be honest, whatever network effects are that will probably be pretty short-lived. I think that pretty quickly everyone is going to realize that they need to support these things. And I think that when like seeing this administration's support for using specifically dollar-backed stable coins. So not saying we're going to move everybody off of the dollar, we're going to move them off of the United States currency as the reserve currency for the world. But I think probably most banks are going to get drug into this, the difference is that we are trying to do it from the start. So is there a network effect? probably, but I think most of the forward-looking companies that would value that network effect,

that one in particular, see that in the next few years probably all banks are going to be forced to adopt this to be competitive. So what is the ideal banking experience for you besides stability and low risk? Is being able to talk to somebody? Is that a bug? Is Airborne just going to be a chat bot that you say talk to a human and it says, unfortunately, I cannot do that. I think it's going to be a long time before we hand things off to the chat pods, if only for regulatory reasons.

You set aside the risk, which is a huge factor. You set aside the fact that we have our own banking rails, which are extremely efficient, and that we can settle at any time. Those are huge factors on their own. But even if you knock off kind of all of these obvious advantages, there's a lot of other things that you get from having a bank that is strongly aligned with the United States, strongly aligned with U.S. interests, strongly aligned with the U.S. Department of War and also the intelligence community and there's there's a lot of ways of that manifest. For example, one of the things that we're doing is rather than

working with the intelligence community only under court order to kind of go and you respond to when they think there's crime going on on the platform, we're preemptively going out there and saying no, we're going to work with them from the very, very beginning to help make fraud almost impossible on our platform, which is great for me too, because it means that people who want to engage in fraud are going to go to other banks. It means that people who don't want to engage in fraud are going to be thrilled about being on a platform that doesn't have that type of activity. on it and to the extent that it exists inside of their own platform against their will, they know that they have a willing partner that is willing to work with the government rather than hide these, you know, hide these things. I'd say maybe think of it as like the opposite of HSBC where they were banking the cartels and desperately trying to avoid any sort of government intervention that would make that clear

to the public markets, put Erebor way at the other end of that spectrum. I think there's also a lot of other banks that, you know, whether they're good or bad people is irrelevant, you might have good people who nonetheless, are very beholden to European markets, Chinese markets, other foreign markets that they need to keep happy, either because they want to keep them happy and make money or because they don't want their executives in those jurisdictions to get arrested. Arabour is taking a very different approach. We're saying, you know what, we're an American company.

We're an American bank that supports American companies, and we will comply with U.S. law, but we will not comply with spurious rulings from people who have no real jurisdiction or authority over us. And you'll find a very hard time finding a bank that takes that position. I'm not aware of any other than us. How do you think about rolling out products? A bank can do everything from mortgages to equipment financing to venture debt to capital raises, take someone public.

That's kind of what, you know, you go to a big bank. They're going to help you IPO. What do you want to do first? I think that right now, you know, look, we've just barely open. So give us a little bit of time. The products that we are prioritizing, are based entirely on the customer feedback that we're getting, the things that they tell us they need,

the things that they tell us that we can most help with. In a way, the existence of a bank, to me, is almost this antiquated thing. You would hope that companies could really just do all of this stuff themselves, or at least most of it themselves. But the regulatory climate, the way that the banking system works, requires that you have this intermediary in the form of a regulated bank to make these things happen.

And so I kind of think of our business as part and parcel of these companies that need us, and we're going to work very, very close to them, and closely with them, and focus on the things that they care about. That's probably not going to be, for example, residential mortgages, but things like equipment financing,

very conservative, very conservatively played where it's not going to turn into a risk management problem, allowing them to work with the legacy banking system and plugging into that in the least painful way. These are things that we have a lot of customers who are very interested. Oh, and we need to not lose their money.

If we can do that, we'll be doing better, than many other banks. Talk about the tradeoffs of going the charter route, the last 10 years. Most of the banking products that founders have used were built on top of existing charters or spreading deposits across multiple.

Well, people would just avoid getting a charter at all. They want to be a fintech company and they basically will dance around the fact that realistically what they're doing is basically being a bank. look, there's a lot of things that you can do without having your own charter. There's things you can do partner with other companies. There's a lot of things you cannot do without having your own charter.

There's a lot of risks you cannot take. It's kind of anti-hypergrowth. Like you can't just scale to 50 billion of deposits tomorrow, even if there's the demand. Right? So maybe speak to that. We decided that we needed to get our own charter because of the type of bank we were going to try to run. And the ability to have the buck stop. with us. The moment that you're dependent on somebody else for the key infrastructure, the key

risk management, the key licensure questions, they can kick you off the platform. They can be forced to kick you off the platform. Maybe they're doing it for good reasons. Maybe they're doing it for bad reasons. I mean, you've seen this play out, for example, with Steam and their payment processors and their payment processors banks and their payment processors banks where they're basically censoring games because there's some circle of people who all claim it's not them pointing down the chain. It's that guy's that guy, it's that guy, it's that guy, But they all agree, even if they can't agree, who's causing the censorship, that if you don't censor, they're going to drop you, they're going to drop your account, they're going to debank you, they're going to depayment you. And so one of the things that you have to ask yourself, when you're making yourself dependent on another bank or another payment company, is, am I setting this up where they get to make my decisions for me?

And are they making their decisions for me, or is the Chinese Communist Party making those decisions? Is some political party that is extremely hostile to some business on our network, the one actually making them? that decision. So if you don't control your own charter, if you don't control your own destiny, the buck doesn't stop with you and you're always going to have to keep other parties happy. And I think that was not something that we were interested in. We wanted to be able to run the bank the way that we think it needs to be run. And if we are debanking somebody, we're going to have to take responsibility for that. And I think that actually leads to much better behavior. I would love to see that type of behavior across the industry.

Physical branches. How are you thinking about that? I think we're going to start with Fort Knox. And we'll expect. from there. I like it. Yeah, maybe actually dive deeper there. Like what is a bank these days? I think most people can conceptualize like setting up a crypto wallet that holds coins, but when you want to hold real dollars, you don't actually have a physical bank vault, I imagine.

So once you get the charter, does that just give you the ability to like maintain a database and a ledger? Like, what is a bank? What is a bank? I mean, there's lots of forms. it can be. I think if you want all the details, you can actually read through a lot of our applications. Some of it's actually a matter of public record, and you can see that. Anderil, sorry, not an arrow, Arabore will have a physical vault, and we will have a lot

of treasure in it. So we are not trying to be a pure digital, pure, you know, pure ether company. And in fact, a lot of the companies that are very interested in working with us want us to have secure actual vaulted storage. I'm not saying that that's going to be the first thing that we focus on, that's our key differentiator, but we are not a, we are not a bank of the ether. We are of terra firma. Yeah. Last time you came on, we talked a lot about Mod Retro. I'd love an update on the M64. What makes that product special? Where did you go further with this project than with the chromatic and just general, like how you're thinking about the M64? Well, so for people who aren't familiar with that. The M64 is a tribute to the Nintendo 64

that I'm building, one of the greatest multiplayer consoles of all time. We're building a console that is compatible with all classic N64 games. We're re-releasing a lot of classic N64 games so that you can buy them if you'd already have them. We're actually doing new releases of canceled N64 games that never even made it to market, either because they were canceled and ported to GameCube, or because they ran out of money, or because the studios imploded for interpersonal reasons. There's a lot of cool stuff coming out. The M64, I guess, the main update is that it's in Master's,

production right now. It is not eventually coming. It is in mass production right now. We've decided we're not going to launch it until we build up sufficient stock to meet the demand. One of the mistakes I think we made with the Mod Retrochromatic, which was a tribute to the Game Boy and Game Boy Color, was that we started selling them, and then all of a sudden we sold out. And then you have people who hear about it, they read about it, their friends are all talking about it, they go to try to buy one and they can't buy one because it's sold out. And there's a question. Will they remember to come back and buy it some other time? they still feel like going and immediately buying it.

Exactly. And so you kind of end up with this dead end call to action. And so we've decided this time, by the way, this is especially bad for the game publishers that we're working with. Let's say that it's someone who's re-releasing a game or somebody who's doing a brand new game, some of the indie developers we're working with on the Chromatic. They're out there promoting their game, they're trying to market their game. They're doing a whole marketing activation trying to convince people, hey, come and buy

my new Game Boy game, come and buy my new Nintendo 64 game. Well, what happens if you can't buy the console? A lot of people like, oh, I'll come back later and buy it, and then they don't. And so what we want to do is not let down our developer partners this time and make sure that we maintain stock. So the goal is that the M64, no matter how many people hit our website, is not going to sell out. And so we are mass producing, we're stockpiling, I think tens of thousands of them so far, more and more to come. What is the supply chain?

What's the supply chain actually like right now? We've covered the gamer rebellion. against AI. Yeah, gamers are rising up. You know, the supply chain is okay because of the type of hardware that we're building. There's a lot of consumer hardware right now where people are trying to buy memory, and it's a huge problem. But remember that the Nintendo 64 doesn't have exactly a lot of memory.

You know, it had what, what, 16 megabytes by default, 32 megabytes with the expansion pack. And so it turns out that you don't need that much memory to, perfectly replicate the Nintendo 64 original hardware. Can you... Maybe it might be actually the least impact, the least memory impacted consumer electronics product of the year. And so this was your plan then all along. Yeah, you saw this guy.

I'm gonna make the final console. Yeah. Now we gotta return to Monkey. We got to go back to the beginning. I mean, really, what am I doing here with something with 32 megabytes? I mean, you remember what Bill Gates said, right? What was it, 64 kilobytes of RAM ought to be enough for anyone? Yep.

Let's go back even further. Let's figure out how to use AI to, yeah, let's figure out how to use AI to build applications that fit within reasonable memory footprints. Ooh, I'm only half kidding. I think you might have seen me going back and forth with Shamath on Twitter a couple weeks ago, talking about how this AI software platform for building software using AI should definitely support export to Windows XP service. packed three compatible applications. And I really am only half kidding. There is actually a lot of government hardware that is still running those, financial hardware that's still running. It's mostly offline stuff. And so having apps that can run on those is actually useful.

But man, it feels crazy to need a few gigabytes of RAM to have a start menu. It feels pretty crazy that you need 16 gigabytes of RAM to take 30 minutes to search through a bunch of text files. Surely we can do better than this. Can you talk a little bit about how you think about gaming in the concept of just raising the next generation, kids. I have three kids. And I think I could probably get an emulator and run it on an iPad and slam that over to my kids' face. And he might not know the difference, but is there another angle to the M64 that is about like some of the things that you can't do with it are actually good for the world, maybe? I mean, you have to remember that the gaming industry,

like many industries, figured out what actually worked a long time ago. They figured out how to make fun games, they figured out how to make things that people keep coming back, but it's moved from innovation to extraction. And I will note, I stole that line from Narav Patel, founder of Framework, because he put it so much better than I did. But there's these industries that have moved from innovation to extraction, and they're now in the extraction phase

where they try to make tons and tons and tons of money, and actually pushing the limits is not the top priority for some huge majority of the dollar. that are in industry. And so there's a lot of stuff that you can learn, especially when you're learning it from the ground up, by going back to when people were just getting the basics right, when they were still innovating,

building things that were really compelling to people. I recently had a kid, I might have a second on the way. I'm planning on starting them with, I don't even if I'd say the classics. This isn't like a vintage play. It's starting them with a good foundation. That foundation happens to be largely old games. But I am not going to be throwing them into the slot machine.

micro-transaction gambleramma that is dominating kids games today. It just seems like like a crazy thing to do. It's a Skinner Box. Yeah. Don't go in the Skinner Box. Talk about vibe coding. What would your life be like if vibe coding existed when you were 20? Advice for... Or 12. People who are 20 now in the world of vibe coding.

Sure. You went into hardware very early. That feels like a great move. Is that still a great move? Walk us through all that. I mean, the biggest benefit is that? the biggest beneficiaries of vibe coding are going to be the hardware nerds like me. It's going to be the shape rotators, not the word cells.

Everyone's focused on how the word cells are going to be wiped out by AI. But for the shape rotators, it's going to be incredible. I was always a pretty terrible software engineer. I'm not a programmer by trade. I've taught myself enough to glue things together and make them work. But when I started my first company Oculus, or actually when I started Mod Retro when I was 14 or 15, you know, I knew just barely enough about software. If I would have been able to build crappy stuff by outsourcing it to a computer, I actually would have been able to accomplish things a lot faster than trying to do it myself. And people might say, Palmer, you should have just learned to code.

You know, you should have just learned to do it yourself. But I think it's pretty easy to look at my track record and realize I started Oculus when I was 19 after building prototypes since I was. was 15, I was only able to accomplish what I accomplished because I focused on what I was good at, which was optomechanics, a little bit of electrical, and then the product integration of all of these different components. I didn't have time to learn to program. If I'd spent another year or two learning to program at even a reasonable level, I would have been two years behind on everything else. And so I am a big fan of vibe coding, even if everything that comes out of it is slop, even if it is all shit, it's better than I was able to make.

How are you thinking about VR these days? I recently watched The Matrix from start to finish in an Applevision Pro. I enjoyed it. It feels like the only real thing that you can do these days is just a home theater, if you don't have a home theater. But it doesn't feel like the industries embrace that at all. And everyone's sort of writing down their investments and pulling back at a time when the display technology does seem to be good enough for that narrow use case if you cut out the display.

the weight and move things around, but where do you see this, where do you, where do you want consumer VR to go and then where do you think it actually is going? So I will challenge your premise there, which is that people are pulling back. I think that's driven mostly by people, uh, sensationalizing meta, firing a bunch of people. But you have to remember, they got rid of 10% of the reality labs team in one layoff. Remember that they have something like eight or nine percent annual turn naturally and organically, not including firing. So, sure.

I mean, what you're really talking about is basically pulling. six months of churn forward into a single month. And they're still spending more on VR than anybody by an order of magnitude. They said they are not spending less on content. They're just not putting it into first-party stuff like Facebook Meta-Horizzen. You've seen they've announced Meta-Horizance is no longer a VR app. As of yesterday, it is now a mobile-focused app only. So what they've done is they've basically killed a few of these failing efforts that didn't make sense.

And they're now putting those resources into things that are working. And so I wrote a bit about this on Twitter where people need to understand this is not the end of VR. It's not collapsing. They are still spending an enormous amount of money. They're bigger than anybody else by an order of magnitude. And I think if you pay attention to what's going to be coming out from meta and others over the next 12 months, you're going to see a lot of progress. Like Applevision Pro, yes, they've been.

So yes, Applevision Pro was ahead of everybody on visual quality, on display quality. But let me tell you a short story. Imagine that an American company went to a Japanese display vendor, and they said, we want you to sell us your new 4K micro-Oled displays. The company gives them samples of those micro-Oled displays. The samples cost about $1,000 each because the yield on that production line is only about 10%. In other words, 90% of the displays coming off the production line are not up to par. They're not working.

And that's because these are engineering samples. They're not meant to actually be a working product. And they said, listen, here's our engineering samples. Just wait two years, and the yield is going to be up to 90%. We'll be able to sell the use to you for a couple hundred dollars. And then imagine that that American tech company had a guy named Tim Apple called them up and saying, no, we're going to build a product with this right now today using our engineering samples. They said, but Tim Apple, that's crazy.

That means that your headset was going to cost like $3,000. He said, I don't care. I'm going to sell a headset that should launch in 27 in 2024, 2025, and I'm going to do it for $3,500. That's what Apple Vision Pro is. It was never intended to be a product of the times. It's a product of the future hauled into the present by spending enormous amounts of money.

And so Meta and Sony and Apple and Google and all of these other companies, they are going to be hitting that level of visual fidelity. They're going to be doing it with headsets that are far smaller, far lighter than what you see from Vision Pro. And I actually remain very optimistic. That's great. I think things are going pretty well.

I'm extremely optimistic. It's mostly just that when I try and pull stuff out of meta, they're like, no, no, no, we're not ready to talk. And I think that they're just being cold shoulder to me because, like, they don't want to leak it yet. But I am very optimistic. Well, you know, the problem is they don't have a charming, charismatic pitchman who knows how to talk about this stuff with you. They got to solve that. They need to figure out what they're doing. You know, it reminds me of something being here.

I'm on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange behind me. And back in the Oculus days, when we sold the company to Meta, one of the first things that happened was New York Stock Exchange emailed our contact email, and they asked if I would come and ring the bell to New York Stock Exchange. Sounds pretty cool, right? Like, hey, like, you've been acquired by this major public corporation in the form of Facebook, come and ring the bell. Maybe someday we'll do something else with you. And unfortunately, I didn't see that email for about seven years because another Oculus executive intercepted the email,

said, oh, no, Palmer can't make it, but I would love to come. And he came, and he rang the bell without telling me about it. And so I found out about it later in unrelated litigation. That email came up in discovery. And anyway, I've not had a chance to ring the bell yet. Maybe when Andrew will go's public, I'll finally be able to, I'll finally be able to ring that bell. But I've got to admit, I have a long memory and a long memory of grudges, and I won't say who it was. But there's probably a handful of people out there who can guess. You have a lot of co-founders now, a lot of executives that you work with. How do you select for folks who won't do that to you?

How do you select the right people? Extreme loyalty. Trust. I don't know. I mean, it's important. Remember. You just kicked this thing off the year ago. Look, I started Oculus when I was 19 years old. Yeah.

And I mean, you also got to remember the story of who is a founder, who is a co-founder. It's fluid and dynamic and always changing with the ebb and flow of history. One of my ideas is to have a blockchain company where everyone agrees what the founding story is and who the co-founders are. And then it goes into the blockchain so that nobody can come back and say that they're a co-founder. There's a guy running around now who says that he's a co-founder of Oculus, who was very much so not a co-founder. I think I met this guy. I told you this story off air. Oh, tell me the story.

So I met it. I was at a dinner party at my friend's house and my buddy was like, hey, this guy works at I'm not going to name the company, but you guys would probably have some tech stuff in common. You guys should meet. And I go up to him, I said, hey, hi, I hear we should meet. And he's like, hey, I was like, what's your story? He's like, I started a company called Oculus. Now it met.

And I was like, oh, interesting. Like, never heard of you before. So it may be this guy. We won't put him on blast. Here's a crazy thing. I don't even know who you're talking about. Yeah. And I told them, I was like, oh.

Because there's multiple people who are saying this, including. a guy who literally has a documentary being made about him, how he's the founder of Oculus. So it's always a... Well, you'll appreciate... I was like, oh, that's awesome. Like, Palmer comes on the show all the time, and then he completely backtracked it. It was like, well, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, I joined, like, you know, but I was on the founding team. Like, he backtracked. Ah. Well, look, you, so, to the point, you asked me, how do you select these people?

carefully. I was 19 years old when I selected the first people that I was working with. I've learned a lot. I've been stabbed in the back a lot and I'd probably make very different decisions if I were doing it today. And it's worth noting, remember that I started Oculus on my own with no co-founders, nobody involved in a lot of, like, I brought on people that I am happy to call co-founders, even though they didn't join the company until months later, who I had never met when I started the company. That said, I'm happy. There's some people I'm honored to share the title of co-founder with, and there's other people that I'm not, which is why I really want this blockchain thing. Somebody needs to vibe code this slop and get it out there.

Super important question. Have you played Federal Reserve Simulator yet? It's on Steam. You've got to try it. You're a banker now. I'm not even heard of it. You're a banker now. You've got to get the reps in.

You might really enjoy this. You've got to do it. Federal Reserve Simulator. It's right there on the. It says, Trump says, we have an incompetent Federal Reserve chair who loves high interest rates. Very interesting. What hardware are you collecting recently? We just learned you can buy a steam powered car and drive it around.

Jay Leno has one that's 120 years old. What hardware am I buying, am I buying? Collecting, not just buying, collecting. Yeah, I know. What am I? Well, so I have a, there's a few things I could bring up. To be honest, I've been too busy to buy really good stuff, but I recently got delivered one of the first Jetson Jetson ones, which is a small E-V-Tol aircraft.

I was one of their first customers and their first delivery. I also have a collection of motorcycles. The theme of the collection is commercial failure. And so all of my motorcycles were huge commercial failures. The more of a failure, the better. And so I've been buying some failed two-wheel drive motorcycles. I've been buying some military motorcycles. How do they ride?

Oh, incredible. Look, there's really bad failed motorcycles. There's those that failed because they're too good. One of the crown jewels in my collection is a Honda Rune. It was basically a personal project created by the CEO of Honda. The document that they used when they were creating it has actually been leaked now. And at the start of the document, it says, performance is the only object. Price is of no importance.

And so they wanted to build the ultimate cruising motorcycle. And the story goes that they lost over $100,000 per bike in the end. And so I've got one of the handful of Honda Roons that made it out of that program, a beautiful Honda room with a couple thousand miles, metallic purple and chrome. And it's one of my favorite motorcycles, if not the favorite. So commercial failure doesn't mean a product's bad. It just means they couldn't figure out how to make a business out of it. Back to your Jetson 1.

Have you been flying it? Are you taking it like half a foot off the ground? then a foot off the ground, what is the path to commuting to work in it? I think given the regulatory climate around E-V-Tol aircraft, it's best that I not say one more word. Perfect. Perfect. Where do you get your shirts?

Where do I got my shirts? Well, it depends. I buy Tommy Bahamas. This one is a rain spooner and a Royal Hawaiian shirt. So I've got a Century Tower. I've got a Ghost X on it. And their headquartered on Catalina Island, California, and Avalon. So I buy from a hold of a bunch of different places.

I'm an equal opportunity Hawaiian shirt purchaser. I like it.