Tea at Four - “I joined a cult that ruined my life” - surviving exorcisms, brainwashing and coercion

Episode Date: October 2, 2025

Today Lauren and Christie are joined by cult survivor, Rachel Reign, who wants to raise awareness of the horrible things going on in the Universal Church of the Kingdom of God.She describes being ‘recruited’ at age 13, having exorcisms every Friday and the dating rules that would keep you from falling into sin. From both a religious and non-religious perspective, we explore what makes a cult a cult, and what are the warning signs you should look out for.Follow @survivinguniversaluk for more information on cultic and spiritual abuse.Send us your dilemmas, tea or quite frankly anything you find funny to [e-mail].💖 Watch on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@Teaatfourpod💖 Follow on TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@four.nine💖 Follow on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/fournine/?hl=en Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

He actually has a net worth higher than Kim Kardashian. Yep. He is the wealthiest mega church leader in the world. Hi guys, welcome back to Teaport. I'm Lauren. I'm Christy and this is a podcast where we talk all things that normally stay in the group chat. Now this episode today, I've been very excited for, very intrigued, a little bit nervous at the same time. We're joined by an incredible guest.

We have Rachel here today. We've got energy, guys. And we are having energy. Now, Rachel, you call yourself a cult survivor. Yes, I do. I know it's different, isn't it? A little bit different. Would you mind explaining what cult you are a part of?

Sure. So for eight years, I was a member of a religious cult called the Universal Church of the Kingdom of Good. So it's a Pentecostal church, but it's really a cult. Yeah, yeah. What is the difference between like a normal church of England? versus this what you were a part of. So the difference between a cult and a regular group is that a cult has very, very specific attributes. And all cults pretty much have the same kinds. Like, for example, it has to have

a cult leader. So the cult leader is often someone very charismatic, very influential, very authoritarian. And my group most definitely had that. And it came in the shape of the bishop and founder of the church, as most cults do. Also within cults, there's an element of cult. coercion, you know, that's how they get people to do what they want them to do. In a regular church, you know, coercion should not be a major characteristic, but in cults it is. You know, you shouldn't feel like if you don't give an offering or if you don't attend, you're going to die or bad things are going to happen to you. But when we're talking about a cult now, that is your reality. You feel as though if you don't do what you're told to do, there's going to be consequences. And that's not healthy

and that's a cult. So a lot of these cults start off being fairly regular, good intentions. I don't think anyone sets up shop and says, you know, I want to be a cult leader today. Let me get some people to brainwash and control. It doesn't start that way. It starts with, you know, let me have my own group. You know, I think my idea is better than anyone else. I need to let other people in on this idea. I need to recruit other people. Then, you know, power and control starts to get involved and then it becomes a cold. So yeah, that's the real difference, you know, when we're talking about a group where you are controlled by the leader, where you're not allowed to ask questions, where you essentially have to like worship and

idolize the leader, then we're talking about cultic kind of environments and behaviours. Wow. Yeah. I mean, yeah, how firstly, leave that. I'm coming from this conversation with little experience of what even it is to go to a regular church. You mentioned. You mentioned. You a cult leader. Yes. Is this a stupid question? In a regular church, is that Jesus? Or is that a vicar?

Well, I guess the leader is... The bishop. The bishop. The bishop, yeah, basically. Where you go? In the Catholic church would be the bishop, then the archbishop. Well, the archbishop, the bishop, the priest. In I think Pentecostal churches, it would be the pastor.

And then everybody else, it would be whatever pyramid scheme they've got going on there. Yeah. Basically. So who was that for the UCKG? So it had many. different hierarchies but the cult leader was the founder, Edia Moseido. And he's an interesting character. He actually has a net worth higher than Kim Kardashian. Yep. He is the wealthiest mega church leader in the world. We're talking millions. When does he resign? Millions. He resign wherever he feels like it. You can

when you're a billionaire. But he likes to resign in, he likes to stay in the US or Brazil. Interesting. So, and just to clarify, so the UCKG operates in Fisbury Park. Everywhere. Everywhere. Every continent. It's a bit in London. Because you expect when you hear about things like cults, you don't expect to be up the road. And that's what gets people, because when you hear cult, you think like a weird little group in the corner somewhere.

Yeah, yeah. You think something like not around where we are, right? I mean, as black people, we think it's a white people thing, to be honest with you. We're like, let's be me when more time, you know, they can. be attending a cult every single Sunday and not even realize it. You know, that's the issue. But what we're having now is we're having coats of all different shapes, sizes, different demographics, and they're targeting everyone.

And it's local, you know, they're not just like remote in the countryside or in someone's garage. They're in the high street. And their registered charity is a lot of the time. Come to think of it. I think I, I'm pretty sure I drive past a few UCKGs. Yeah, you probably do. Yeah, I think there's free. in my residing area.

Free? Yeah, I think it's free. Yeah. And so it's still active now. Oh, absolutely. And would you be able to explain a bit about your story of how you got into it? Sure. So I was 13 years old.

I am born and bred in West Croydon and that's of course where they have a branch. So one random Sunday, I was on my way into the shopping center and then a kid reached out and said, why don't you come up, I'm having a youth meeting. And I'm like, okay, what? Like I walk by this place like every single day, day and I had no idea it was even a church.

But I was bored, nothing better to do. And I'm like, okay, it was literally around the corner from my house. So I'm like, okay, cool. So I went in and I remember being amazed that it's a church. Like, what? I lived here all my life and I didn't know there was a church here. Like, what is this? But it's like, okay, it's around the corner from my house.

So fine. And yeah, it was a youth meeting. It was lively. There were other kids there. And it seemed really good at first. So they were like, well, if you like today, you should come back on Thursday. We're going to be having a never meeting. And then you're going to go and.

Thursday and then it's like you should come on Sunday you should come on Monday you should come on Wednesday and before I knew it every day every day every day question so so before being approached by a member from the UCKG did you go church with your family before or was like was church not a normal routine within your um your lifestyle it wasn't a normal routine I did go now and again with my grandma if he was to ask me I would probably say I'm a Christian but I never used to be like particularly religious. Okay. So 13 years old you get approached. What takes it from that and going to church, I mean seven days a week is intense, but from that to now reflecting back and saying that's a cult? It developed subtly, but very fast. So I started going when I was 13. So among those services

and days where I had to attend was a Friday service. And Friday services in the UCKG, regardless of what country, what area, it's always focused on the same thing. So Fridays are reserved for exorcisms. Now, they don't call it that. They call it strong prayers or prayers of deliverance because, yeah, why would they ever say it's an exorcism? According to their website, they don't do exorcisms. But they be doing exorcisms, sorry.

All day Friday. Sorry, I don't want to laugh, but like, what's crazy for me is like, if they've approached you as if this is a youth group, you know what I mean? Like, you know, you people come together, your fellowshiping with like new friends, meeting new people. You're thinking, okay, cool, do you know what exactly are you guys being delivered from on the Fridays? That's, that's, that's, yeah, with the kids doing it.

Oh yeah, definitely. I was 13 when I first received it. 13. You were exercised. I was a child. Mm-hmm. I was a child. And in terms of what we were being exercised from,

that was pretty much up to them and what narrative they wanted to kind of a pin on you because at 13 years old they well they sat us down and it was like well you know what problem are you going through what do you want got to deliver you from and because I weren't going through anything major it was like um and they're like okay so um what about boys you know what about your studies what about your family and then it's like okay maybe i do argue with my mom sometimes okay so you have family problems and then it's like um what about boys and it's like um i suppose and they're like, okay, so promiscuity. So they basically like fish for problems if you don't outright like have a serious issue you're going from. And then they'll take that issue and that's

what they're going to go for during those services. So in those services, it's going to be like they go around and they lay hands on your head. Remember, they don't give you any kind of briefing. You can't really give consent because how do you get consent from a child to abuse them? So it was crazy. They just literally went around. It was a mass exorcism situation. So everyone in the room would be getting it. No warning. So can you just talk us through like, okay, your first experience on the Friday, you go, your think is just a normal youth service, you know, youth meeting, they do this deliverance, as they call it. You leave in the place now. What's going through your head? How do you fathom what you've just experienced? How do you speak to anybody about it?

Yeah. How, what could you speak to talk to us? Good question. It was so normalized when you're in that environment, you know, because everyone was going through it. It was completely normal. So you didn't even think to unpack it or to question it because everyone was kind of doing it and it was like a mass hysteria situation. So during the services, you know, the person will come, the assistance or the pastors will come and lay hands on your head and then they'll be whispering in your ear, the evil spirit that's causing this young girl to sleep around. Come out of her. Show yourself. Manifest. And then you're kind of just standing there and they make sure it's dead silent in the room. there's a lot of kind of like psychological warfare going on because they make sure the room is like

dead silent so that you can hear what's going on around you. So some people will be like screaming and you know like rolling around on the floor like it will be a whole craziness and it's a mass hysteria situation. So when you're new to it and you're being told, you know, the person's in your ear saying the evil spirit that's causing this person to sleep around or to have fights in their family. Come out. Show yourself. If you know that you may have those issues, it's like like, okay, maybe I do have a demon. So maybe, yeah, maybe there's something to it. So then they push your head back, right? And they try and like provoke a reaction. Which does it fall back. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that when you step back now, they're like, yes, devil's spirit.

That's there. Show yourself. And then the prayer intensifiers. And then next thing, you know, they put you at a head look. Yeah. And this is something they do across all UCKGs in the world. The UCKG is like, it's like a franchise. It's exactly the same, no matter what country you go to, the same protocol, the same kind of language, same thing. So as you start to respond to the prayer, it gets intense and then they literally put you in a headlock and hold you. And it's weird when it happens because it is definitely mass hysteria, but you're feeling like this is what you have to do in order to be delivered.

So you kind of, there's a side of you that's like literally fighting to get out of the headlock because you can't breathe and you're in pain. But then the other side is like, okay, but maybe this is the evil spirit coming out of it. So yeah, it's literally maybe half an hour, 45 minutes. And then after it, you're knackered, your, you know, clothes ripped, hair, a mess, bruised, cuts. And it's like, but at least I'm delivered. See you next Friday. Yeah, it was crazy.

And because I said, everyone was doing it. Like, all your peers around you was going through the same thing. So you don't think twice about it. Yeah. And that's a way that they kind of make you even more vulnerable, you know, so that you feel like you owe them something. something, you know. So that was Friday services. We had to go on Mondays to pray for our finances, which was basically our studies as well. So they were like, you're, you're studying. Okay, so you need

to come on Mondays to pray for your financial life. I forgot to bless you. And then Typh came into it. I started Typh in when I was 13 years old. What's Typh? So Typh traditionally in the Bible, it's an Old Testament situation, right? So they basically, a lot of churches these days believe that members have to give 10% of their income to the church as per the Bible. But that's often taken out of context because it's an Old Testament rule and you know about that. Yeah. But you see, it's a way that a lot of these more unscrupulous churches get passive income because if they kind of hammer down on that Bible verse and say, you know, you have to give 10% it's in the Bible so that God can bless your life. You're going to do it. And in our case,

they take it to an extreme because they didn't just preach type. They preach that you have to give the very first 10% of your income. So whenever you get paid or in my case, whenever you get pocket money or something, you have to take the first 10% get that change, put it in your type envelope and then keep the 90. And that's just off the top. That's like the base kind of income you're given to it. Then you're giving offering every time you go service. And if you go in services like four or five times a week, then you know, you have to give offering. And then there's this big thing they do twice a year where you have to give some kind of large financial offering for some kind of So you're constantly putting money in him.

You're constantly putting money in. Like literally every single time, money, money, money. It's crazy. Just hearing you speak is what you're telling me, it's annoying me. And it's annoying me because initially what they're using is they're using the Bible, like biblical scripture and turning it, turning it for financial gain. Yes, it does say you can tithe. You should tithe 10%, but as a Christian, I don't tithe all the time.

I can't like it. It doesn't make me a bad Christian. You get it. Like the Old Testament, as in the old scriptures of the Bible, talks about, obviously God was a very, like, he was a strict guard. He was like, yeah, this is the law. You do this, you do. And that was for the Israelites.

That's what people skip over. Right, cool. Whereas I feel like in this new age of religion, it's more about, yes, you can'tite. It's your own will to do so. But it's more about generously giving, serving in your own way, being a good steward, you know what I mean, being a nice person. Yeah. Being a good Samaritan.

So I feel like it's very annoying. the fact that they've done that and you've experienced that. Because now your relationship with money is toiled because it's like they've put this kind of bad thing on it. And it's just very frustrating. Yeah.

Like listening to that is just like... It is because they're taking something pure and nice and wholesome and trying to like literally turning it on his head. You know, they gave, they continue to give and not just the UCG, cults that are just like them, they manipulate scripture. And what that is, is spiritual.

abuse. You know, it's taking people's spirituality and weaponizing it and manipulating scripture for their own gain and to carry out abuse. And that's what was happening to me. Because their ideologies were coming from the Bible, but yet manipulated and contorted, it legitimized it. And it kind of left no room to question it. Because if you ever, well, we weren't allowed to question or challenge, which is typical of course. Why? We weren't allowed to. Because we were told that, you know, you can't disobey the amount of good. Like, don't, you can't touch. God's anointed, you know, don't question the man of God. Don't question God's authority. I have to ask, like, 13 is such a formative age. And I think even being told you can't question

things religiously would naturally seep into your normal social lives. Like, I assume you were going to school. Like, what did the rest of your day look like when you had church in the evenings, church at the weekends? Like, did it affect your friendships, your relationships, maybe dating or anything like that. Definitely. This is where the isolation kicks in, which is never kind of key attribute for cults. You know, their thing is to isolate their members

from society, from healthy attachments. So that happened with me fairly quickly, you know. As I started to attend a church more, I was being told that, you know, now that I'm, you know, entering the faith and I'm getting closer to good, the devil's going to use people to contaminate my faith and say bad things about the church.

But when that happens, I should just know that that's just the devil trying to, you know, bring me back to the world. So I should be ready and I should be prepared. I should be in the faith. So that was them literally priming me for my healthy attachments, starting to ask questions. Yeah. So when my mom did start to ask questions or anyone did start to, you know, question things, it's like, oh, you see, pastor said this all happened. The devil is using my mom now. Oh, would you express that to your mom?

Of course. I wouldn't say it to her. But, like, I would just. It's like now they are no longer my family. It's no longer my mom, my brothers, my siblings. They are souls that need to be saved and they're not saved because they don't attend the church. So now, you know, it was all about trying to get them to come to the church. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they must have seen a shift in you. Oh, yeah. It was very, very extreme. Literally. Within a few weeks, I became super conservative,

you know, super conservative. Someone who never really went to church dramatically just changing overnight and becoming conservative in the way I dressed in my friendship groups. I mean, there was no friendship groups after that, you know, when it became apparent to me that I, my job now was to save others and bring them to the church. It was like, well, you can't mix the wines is something that we hear a lot in churches. You can't be, you know, they were not equally yoked with people who don't go to the church. They're of the world. They're unbelievers. So people who I was friends with, it was like, well, you know, you're not in the faith. So it's like, I need to keep my distance. You know, if you want to come church, I always used to have leaflets in my backpack.

Wow. Yeah, so it got, it got so bad that I stopped having lunch and breaks. I fasted for most of the time. There were sometimes in the church where they would say, we have to fast for like 12 hours for some event we're having. Not okay. It's actually crazy. Like, just, it was crazy. So I pretty much gave up on lunch. And my mission during lunchtime was to go around the playground and hand out leaflets and tell people to come to the church. to yeah yeah yeah and i would literally spend my other kind of lunch like in a classroom tucked away with my Bible away from the people of the world babe yeah yeah yeah that was my life can i ask did did anyone at the time throw around the word cult no they didn't really they really didn't because back then it's not what we see now you know facebook was a thing but like no one was really talking about cults like that especially not in like

popular culture there's there was nothing like it you know and And I suppose, yeah, people couldn't put their finger on it. My grandma started to suspect something was up for sure. Like she knew something was up. My mom did. But again, with these kind of coats that target young people, it's the perfect disguise. Because two parents, it's like, well, at least my kids are not in a gang. At least they're not out there getting pregnant.

They're in church. What's the worst that can happen? And plus, because it's local, it's like, well, it's even better. You know, my young person's literally down the road. You know, they're having their little youth group. It's a charity. What's the worst that can happen? But the worst that can happen was me being exploited, physically abused, isolated.

And that was my life. And then when I became 15, it kind of stepped up a level. So I now was deemed as someone who was delivered. Okay. At 15. At 15. So the first time you had the deliverance, you weren't delivered. That was every Friday for about two years.

Yeah, yeah. Every Friday we had to go and go through that until we were deemed to be. delivered. So age 15 now, I was delivered. I supposedly had the Holy Spirit. So now it was time for God to call me to do the work of good and to become an assistant. Now, an assistant of what? An assistant of the church. Okay. So that basically means that I was just under the youth pastor. We had to wear this elaborate uniform that looked like a British airways uniform. I'm talking the little navy jacket, the little skirt, little shoes with a little buckle. Yeah. I'm a lot of, I thought I was it.

I thought I arrived. Which is indeed. Oh, high rockies, everything. I'm like, yes. Do you know what? You're explaining that now. It's funny because I remember going to school and I think there was a other church called VYG. That's it.

Oh, okay. That's the next thing, yeah. It's the same thing. That's the youth ministry. That's the same one. Oh, okay. So I knew an organization called VYG, right? That's the one.

And they would come outside your school and they would be like, Yeah. So that might have been me still. With your little. Hi. So they come out, they used to come outside of the school and they'll give you sightly flirts and then they'll try to ask for your number. Yep.

Yes. We have to get names or numbers. We have targets. We have KPI's. Right. So names and numbers. And if you gave them your number, you know, we're never lied. Sorry.

They will call you. They will message you. That's not okay. Are you coming? No, you come and come in. I remember one girl from school actually went. I think she went for like a day. and then she started going for like a week

and then all of a sudden obviously we girls schools we used to have you know to roll up our skirts whatever the following week she came in the skirt was at the bottom the hair was style like a different way and I was just like something's not right here because you're like the loud one of the group

you know you're the like where's the joyful that's crazy that's my life it was literally yeah literally and I think for me going to a Catholic school I okay even though I should I shouldn't judge but back then I was very wary of that. Maybe I was probably woke at that time. But I used to, it's funny now because I go to a festival across the church. So I grew up in a Catholic church and when I hear, I would hear things like,

yeah, the VIG are doing this or youth group. I'm just like, I hear it. That's great. But no, something's a bit strange there. Like, what does it mean that you guys have to go to church Monday to Friday? When do you spend time of your family? When do you go out on like people's, like, people's birthday party is she never used to come. So it was just like, your youth is basically robbed from you. Yeah. So I had a kind of like a perspective where I was like, yeah, you guys are weird. Yeah.

Even though it's a bad way to say, but it just didn't sit right with me. But in a way I didn't judge because it's like, you know, they're doing something for God. You know, it's, they're being good people. So who am I to judge? Colts are notoriously antisocial. Like they ride by themselves. They tend to not collaborate with other people. You know, and that's the never difference between.

a healthy religious organization and a cult healthy religious organizations they understand the importance of collaboration working with other people you know if you're a member of our church today and you're moving and you want to go to another church next week amen go for it god bless you but in a cult now it's like gang war it's like what you're up now you can't go to another church how dare you like literally that's the difference so yes just it's it's so hostile Colts don't work with other cults, you know, and even worse still, the UCKG used to accuse other churches of being a cults. Oh, they do be doing, man.

They're literally, you know that emoji or Spider-Man? They're putting at each other. That's literally cults. That's literally how they go on. They call each other cult, but they never accept that they're a cult. Lacking some self-awareness, huh? Literally. That's crazy.

So when you're here with your British Shareways uniform, not sponsored. Cost over £400, by the way. Christ! They made me feel like it was a favour, you know, that I was honoured to be able to buy this uniform. Wow.

So I assume as an assistant of the church, it's a lot to do with recruitment, is it? Was there, were you told there was a specific type of person to target? Yes. So we had to do a lot of street evangelism. And I say evangelism because I weren't really evangelism.

evangelism wouldn't tell you having to tell people about good and, you know, to be saved and all of these good things. Cult evangelism is recruitment. So that's us literally going to get people to be a member of the church or to attend some event. So we had to do this day in, day out, in the mean streets of West Croydon. Like literally kids in our little uniforms outside on the street in West Craydon. And we literally had to target everyone.

adults, drunk people, even people of other religions, like people with hijabs, it would be like, go and speak to that, go, tell her to come. And sometimes it will be so bad they'll be like, don't mention church. Say it's a youth group. Oh.

I mean, we're allowed to mention church. Mm-mm. And it's like, well, they'll figure out when they get it. It's like it's deception off the bat. Like, how are you not going to tell people as a church? It's literally a church. So, so, like, what is the script like?

Like, how would you say? So if you're approaching a, woman with a hijab, what are you saying? Oh, it's the same thing. Hi, can I have two minutes of your time? We're having an event on Sunday. It's going to change your life. Do you like dancing?

Okay, but do you like thinging? I would, yeah, let me come. Do you know what I'm sold? I've got off it to do you. Yes, go. Exactly. It's like just come for 10 minutes. If you don't like it in 10 minutes, you can leave, no problem.

Can you actually leave, though? Well, it depends. What's that, what's that meme? I should just close the door. So, so what? So it comes to Sunday. Yeah. I've come to the event.

What is the event firstly? And how do I leave? Good question. The events vary. They have dance events. They have football events. They have events around, I don't know, like road life event, like, you know, come off the street event, Knives Not Lives Event, whatever hairbrain scheme they think of,

they put it into an event. And it's all the same kind of. thing. It's the same kind of marketing. It's one of them churches where they have them dramas, you know, them, them dramatic churches where they have the plays. Yeah, I've heard about that. Demons come out and, you know, them ones. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was

very much that. So every event would have like a lame play and they're exactly the same. And in all these years, they ain't changed. So it always has the main character and they always take a new person who's kind of new to the fold and put them as a main character to make them feel gas, like, yeah, you're the story of the show.

That's so psychological. It is. you feel like you're part of it. And then because you're the main character now, you're even more inclined to, like, invite your friends to come to the event. Oh, that would be sucked in. I'm such a spotlight paper. Wow. And they know that.

They know that young people are often disenfranchised. And they don't have a lot of power and a lot of influence. And then they literally hand it to you. It's like, yeah, God wants to use you. You know, God's going to use you in this performance to save souls. What was the play? Oh, God. There were so many different plays.

I played a crackhead. I played a mom, I played the teenager who got pregnant, I played the one that died without salvation, I played the auntie, I played every character you can think. So not stories we'd know? No. So this was like situations where you'd have the angel come and then the devil come. Yeah, I played a demon before.

That was fun. Did you then have to get exercise for that the next Friday? No, I think I've got a part. What did you get at? 50 at this time. Yeah. Yeah. So she was delivered. She was 15. Oh, you were 15? That was delivered. But, you know, yeah, demon one, demon two. They had a few demons.

Never really angels now, I think of it. They were heavy on the demon. Of course they didn't have any angels. From all of this, and sorry, I don't mean so off, because it is, it's a lot. It's a lot. At what point did you go, probably something a bit off here? And this is not serving me. because if this becomes your whole life for however many years, admitting out loud to yourself or to the people around you, I'm in a cult. Like,

I think even people that have been in cults their whole life struggle to actually verbalise that. Yes. Like, what was that like for you? It took me years and years and years. I mean, I started when I was 13. I left when I was 21. Wow. So age 15, I was an assistant, you know,

spent my life in the church, cleaning the church, all weekend in the church, you know, most weekdays. my life? No, I mean, I did get a little part-time job, but still, I was expected to be in the church, doing church things, right? Age 19 now, it was like, well, assistant Rachel, because even though I was a kid, I still, I had to be referred to as assistant Rachel or Miss Rachel. You know, no one dare call me by my first name, because that wasn't the thing. In these codes, hierarchies, everything, you know, when you do good, positive reinforcement, here's a promotion, here's a title, and it's not paid or anything like that.

But, you know, it's a means of control. So it's like, well, you know, now, Assistant Rachel, you know, you've been in the church for a while, you're doing the work of good, you know, maybe God's ready to bless you in your love life. So now they're directing your love. Oh, yeah. We couldn't date anyone outside of the church. They had to be a member first and foremost.

And even then you had to get pastors permission to date and you have to be interviewed to make sure you're worthy of dating. So in this interview, they're not going like, do you like going for ice cream? Are you looking for a boy? What are they asking? Are you delivered? Do you have the Holy Spirit?

How many times do you attend church in a week? You know, how many souls did you bring to the church? Because we call them souls. They call new people souls or youths. God. So ideally you don't have a sense of who you are. You don't know what your identity is. This is a really good point.

Been robbed. Yeah. And completely. For instance, I'm guessing when you're at home, you'd be watching. in shows on TV. I'm pretty sure you watched movies and stuff. Oh boy. That was that was a great area because we weren't allowed to listen to worldly music. Even some Christian music they were deemed worldly. So I remember there was this event where we had to give them our iPods and then they swiped off everything of the iPod and replaced it with their music and what things they

deemed appropriate. We weren't allowed to watch certain things. We literally everything was controlled. it got to a point where they introduced this sorority within the group, which was created by the cult leader's daughter. And she's like a celebrity in the cult, right? So she introduced this thing called Godlywood. And with this thing called Godlywood, it had a no-no list of things the women was not allowed to do. And in order to even join the sorority, you have to go through a rush month.

So it's just like a sorority, but like a Christian one. It's in the UK. It started in America. yeah, we had to take part. So, you know, I had to go through Rush Monf. I had to abide by this no-no list. And in this no-no list, you weren't allowed to wear fongs. You weren't allowed to wear certain color, no polishes.

Only nude, red, yeah, only nude, red or pink color nail polishes. No fongs, because that's worldly. You weren't allowed to hug boys. You weren't allowed to have friends with boys. You weren't allowed to have friends of anyone who didn't attend the church. You weren't allowed to wear jeans to the church or to services. You were allowed to wear jeans to services. Yeah, no, let you wear it to the youth group, but just not regular study.

Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the list weren't on. There was too many to remember. Rachel, I was actually so sorry. I'm very angry and I'm angry that there's actually people out there that are in these situations and they don't have a way to come out because like just hearing what you're saying, they're not preaching or studying the Bible. The Bible doesn't, there's nothing in the Bible or in any religion that says, do this, you can't do this. You know what I mean? It's like, we all have free will. so fair enough you can have you can have your rules but allow people to be themselves and I feel like just hearing your experience you were robbed of that yeah absolutely there was zero free will you could not do anything you wanted to do and because it's coercion it's always a thing where it's like well you know we're going to have this event where you know we're going to give our best offering to good no one's obliged to take part you don't have to come and take this envelope but if you don't don't expect God to bless you you know it's always that

that kind of coercion so that they can lean back and say, well, we didn't force anyone. Yeah, but you certainly coerced them. You know, there was a whole bunch of coercion. I mean, I didn't know who I was, what I liked. My identity was the church because unlike a healthy church, they didn't give me my space to be my own person. You know, they told me what I should look like, what I should sound like. Did you notice your friend started talking different?

Well, I think by the time it got to, you know, a good couple of months. She didn't talk to you no more, in it? She got you off. We didn't talk to her, then she came back. So it was fine. Yeah, she came back. But you would have to know if she started talking different.

Yeah. Because they talk different. In quotes, they often have their own little language and their own little terminology and buzzwords. And the UCKG is heavy on this. Like, if I was in a room full of 10 people and one of them was a UCKG member, I can tell. So now there's a book on a study to know how to. Yeah.

Can you give an example of what it sounds like? Do. They be, they sound. So basically they all try and imitate the Brazilian founders. So they'll try and talk. You have to come to the church on Friday and you have to pray. My friend, you have to come. They all sound exactly the same.

And if the founder says like a word repeatedly like in it, he wouldn't say in it. But if they were in it, then they'll be like, in it. They imitate the leader. They literally imitate the leader. And even though we're kids from the hood, we were sounding like a really odd kind of like Brazilian twang, you know, and they had us talking different and just moving different and dressing different. I mean, as you remember from your friend, you know, I was dressing like an auntie. Like I was wearing size 18 clothes because you weren't allowed to show the shape of your

bomb. Now, because you don't want to cause the other men to fall into sin. Because then he's not just him falling into sin. You're falling into sin for causing him to fall into sin. So you better keep your bomb covered up. I always think with cults, Um, no offense, but it sometimes feels like they just make up on the spot. They do. And like the idea of like the sorority rush thing sounds a lot like, you know, they watch the house bunny or something and then gone like, yeah, that's good. We'll stick that in next week. Like, like how is that allowed and is that across all churches then? How does all churches? All churches then have this sorority. No, the UCKG of course.

UCKG, as in the UCKG, the different branches. They all do that. They all did it. It was so gross. And it was like a cult within itself because if you made it into the group now i went through rushmore maybe three times that they didn't let me in okay so both times i was denied access looking back now it's a good thing because i saved myself a bit of trauma which was good by the time i was like a reject i was like the scarlet letter like i'm not worthy i'm not good enough but when you're in now you basically had so one of the first things the girls had to do was they had to tell a secret to their big sister Huh? So they had like big sisters.

Literally from like TikTok. I swear like what? How have they got? Like why? How did they come up with these things? And it was literally in black and white. You have to tell something that you've never told anyone to your big sister. And the big sisters were the pastor's wives.

They were like worship. So in the UCKG they don't believe that women should preach. You can't be a pastor. You can marry one though and be his little helper and wear the little uniform. Not be his little helper and wear a little uniform. But you cannot preach. You cannot preach. So yeah, at one point I wanted to be a pastor's wife.

Yeah, I was in my little uniform. I'm like, I'm going to marry a pastor. Did you get married within? I did. I got married age 19. It seemed like a really good idea at the time. I mean, we don't judge. Obviously, it was terrible.

I had nothing. Who was that guy? We attended the same church and that was about it in terms of what we had in common. We were the same age. Okay, so from 13th and 21, if you don't mind going to ask you, how long were you married for? So I got married 20, well 19.

We separated during the second lockdown. Okay. Yeah, because I try it. Go knows I try it. Yeah. But unfortunately, what, three years. So when I left the church, I'm skipping ahead a bit. I know we can go back.

But when I left age 21, he left maybe three years after I left. Okay. And then we had our son. And then, yeah, during the second lockdown, And it was like, yeah, you need to get out of my house. Because we weren't meant to be together. We didn't know each other.

We hadn't, like, the only thing we had in common was the church. And the church knew that. You know, the church, even until today, like, they do, like, like, maybe one or two weddings every weekend. They'd be marrying off young people. Do you know, marrying off young people. So, again, I don't see. We, okay, as a female, I know when I want to get married, you know, I've got, I want this

dress, I want that. You didn't have that. I got married and one. little 1950s dress. I don't know who at first, what I did. What is the fashion in there? Has, it was crazy. What is your viewpoint on marriage or weddings now?

Well, now, I'm of the understanding that marriage is a legally banning contract. So you probably shouldn't be doing that on a whim. Not a good idea. And I asked, I asked, I, um, so on the day you get married, you're, you're partnered up, with this man, I assume not on your preferences or your hinge prompts. It's based on like your... I didn't have no preference. My only preference is, is he saved, is he delivered?

Does he attend church? Is he in the faith? So when you're meeting together, like what are you chatting? Did you have anything? Oh, yeah. That'll be it. Church. Church, that was literally it.

It was so crazy. It was mad. It was so crazy. When, so in the UCKG, back then there was a rule. You had to either date for three months and then after three months, you either get married or separate because if you date longer than that you might fall into sin. Oh! I'm not, no.

Wait, sorry, what? Yes. What did the dates look like? Yeah. The dates were very, very childish because you're scared to touch each other for in case one, you know, for in case we go to hell. We can literally lose our salvation if we, like, lost after each other. And we don't want to lose our salvation now because the pastor said that a bus might come

out of nowhere, you know, if you don't have your salvation, you can die at any moment. So it was like, yeah, it was a serious thing. So yeah, we decided to get married. And when we got married, so another weird thing about this particular coat is they don't legally marry you. You know, you would think a church of that size will have the wedding license and legally do it. They want no part. And now we know why.

But they make you get married in the registry office and then they do up the big church wedding. So I got married in the registry office, right? And at that point, it's like, we're husband and wife. This is not a sin. Let's get to it. Are your parents family friends? So they, most of my family didn't come. Most of my friends didn't.

And it's simply because we was estranged. I cut myself off all of those years. So when they heard I was getting married age 19, it was like, what kind of foolishness is this? Getting married to who? Yeah. Like, what, when? Like, what's happening?

So some did come, but yeah, most of, like, it was crazy. What's my cousins even there? I don't think my cousins were there, you know? Wow. It was so crazy because my church family was there. but it was just so weird. So did they make you think it was something legal and then it actually wasn't? No, because we did get married legally.

Because they make you get married legally and then they do their church wedding. Right. So yeah, I mean, my mom was taken her back but, you know, at that point she knew she couldn't stop me unfortunately because of my age and I was so stubborn at that point. And that's another thing with Colts, you become super defensive of it and that's how you know there's a red flag to a group. Because generally speaking, you're allowed to critique a group. You know, everyone has their free will, their own opinions.

Try and criticize a cult to a court member. It's on smoke. Like, it's going down. They will get hostile. They will get upset. Defensive. And that was me. Like, you say anything about my church.

You're basically attacking my faith. Wow. That's how it was. So even though my family would have had doubts and suspicions, they wouldn't have of dead say it because that's for me it's like fighting words like you're talking about my god you're talking about my church so it was so difficult for them you know because they saw all of this going on and everything is people don't walk around looking like cult members and looking needy and all side you don't look like it especially in this kind of environment where you know toxic positivity

is so rampant you're not allowed to show signs of weakness you have to be positive especially to unbelievers because you're trying to wind them over to the church. So my family would have saw me happy all the time, positive, not a bad word to say about the church. So you leaving your ex-husband was that when you realised you were leaving the church? Like did you leave the church after you left the husband or was there time after that? So my kind of breaking moment and when people leave courts, it's really one thing. It's always like a build-up. It's just like being in an abusive relationship. You know, the exact same kind of dynamics. It's the same.

A lot of people were like, well, why didn't you just leave? You know, if it was so bad, why didn't you leave? It's the same thing in a relationship. You can't just leave sometimes. It's the coercion. It's the manipulation. It's the brainwashing. It's the control, the codependency.

These are the same dynamics I had with the church. So it was like, even though things were terrible, I couldn't leave. I couldn't question it. You know, I just had to deal with it. And then everything is, you're not allowed to discuss it among each other. because there's this air of I'm going to snitch on you So now you don't even trust the people that you're talking to

that you want to confide in the back of your head you're thinking I'm going to say something it's going to get back to the leader and I'm Exactly So it's psychological because you're walking around isolated feeling like it's just you and you're internalising the reality like maybe it's me I need to pray harder

maybe I need to you know fast more or read my Bible more but it's literally that your nervous system's screaming out you're being triggered, you're being, you're being traumatized. But because you can't kind of like validate each other, you're literally just dying inside. You know, that's how it was. Like when the pastor would say something or there'll be a never event, you know, you'll be like, but I can't talk to anyone about it.

And you can't talk to anyone. You literally can't because you know that even though we're brothers and sisters in Christ, if you come to me with doubts, you know I have to go and report you to pastor. Wow. And that's exactly how it is. So even if we had doubts, we couldn't. And even if we went to the past, we'll get in trouble.

You can't be, mm-mm, you'll get into big trouble for how day you questioned the man of good, as I said. Like, it weren't a thing. Wow. So my breaking point was, so when we got married in the registry office, that night we did what married folk do, right?

Because it's not a sin. Hey, it's right. It's not a sin. Yeah. Apparently it was. So the next. day now, I go to the church and no, we didn't have a honeymoon because we're broke, as most members of cults are, because their money is going into the church, which is funny because it's a

prosperity preaching church. So it's all about prosperity. If you give, God will give back to you. We weren't receiving anything, but yet we kept on giving. So we were dirt poor. So the next day now, I go into the church and the pastor's wife quizzes me about what happened. She was like, well, did anything happen last night? And she said it in a jokey way at first. And I'm like, yeah and then I saw her face changed and I'm like oh so on top so then I let her run that day that's the thing in quotes there's no boundaries zero boundaries zero zero you're vulnerable 24 seven to whoever you know is responsible for you whoever's leading you so later on that day her husband calls me and again that interviews me

like did anything happen last night what happened and then immediately I'm like okay something's going down like what now like what is it so then i receive a never phone call being told that i need to go to finsbury park to the headquarters that the lead pastor wants to talk to me about what happened and it was just me mind you i went summoned with my husband it takes two to tango but of course the woman gets the blame no yeah so then i went from cradled all the way to finsbury park i was taken into a little room upstairs it was just me and the pastor who coincidentally is now the bishop in charge of the UK, he was in charge of the assistants back then.

So we went into a room and maybe an hour, hour and a half, he was like interviewing me about what happened. And he was like, well, even though you're legally married, you're not married under the eyes of God. So therefore you committed a grave sin. You need to take time now and think about what you've done.

You're not going to wear your uniform. Sorry. Oh, Christy. It might be. It might be because even as much. Married folk, they control what you do in the bedroom. Wow. Yeah, married folk had their own no-no live.

So, yeah, it wouldn't surprise me. But, yeah, from that moment on, I was demoted. No longer assistant Rachel, just plain old Rachel. And that was like the worst thing in a court. In a cult, to be demoted from a position, that's like the worst thing. I basically got fired. No more uniform, no more Miss Rachel, assistant Rachel, just a regular old Rachel. That caught me deep.

Because I was like, I've done everything. like this ain't right it's not a sin we're married you know at that moment it was like yeah that was like the straw that broke the camel's back and then from that point i started quiet quitting you know i started really quiet quitting because and it was difficult because they literally threatened you they literally threatened you to leave in they would be like there'll be times or they would have a meeting like a crisis meeting and looking back those crisis meetings only happened when something big happened in the church, like some kind of scandal or someone left. And they would have these crisis meetings that basically like scare you into not leave him.

So there'll be times where they would get like really graphic images. So I've seen probably maybe two or three graphic images in the church. One was a former bishop who was involved in a motorbike accident and he was basically decapitated. And never one, a former assistant, they hung themselves. And they would show these images on the projector as, like a warning of what would happen if you left and the message will be like well you know this person was where you are you know they were in the church they were in the faith and then they left and now look

at them and that happened like a few times so it's like if you leave bad things are going to happen to you and you actually believe it like you believe it and it was so deep where it's like not only where bad things happened to me but what happened to my family too because the only reason my family is not dead right now or suffering is because of me, I have the covering of good. If I leave, there's no covering. That's obviously like a channel of brainwashing. But that could probably lead to things like OCD and like intrusive thoughts and things like that. Definitely. I had so many panic attacks. So many because they were big on, you know, the rap shot. And I remember back in 2012, they were one of the big pushes of the world's going to end. I mean, I swear fairly recently there was

One yesterday. Yeah, it was yesterday. Apparently he was meant to be the end of the world. What do they do in the next day? Oh no. Well, do you know what I mean? It's not. It makes you wonder.

It makes you wonder because the world is meant to end in 2012 for the UKG. Like they were literally preparing us like there's a strong possibility. The world's going to end. And I remember they had this night vigil, which is like an all night service. And they were like, you have to try and bring your family because there's a good possibility. You know, Jesus will come back. And he didn't. And it was like.

okay at least we're prepared next time and cut so you obviously left the cult the church and you now campaign for survivors of the cult and support them and obviously tell your story rehashing all of this out every day

is really intense but how important is having this conversation today and also bring it into people that aren't religious Like me having this with you today has opened my mind so much. I feel like there's been a massive influx this year, especially of a lot more Gen Z and millennials going to church. Not to say they're going to the UCKG.

But I think we're all deeply searching for a sense of guidance and community. And it's really important to be able to see the red flags and green flags, especially, because what is hard for me to understand is how, how much you give of yourself to the church, and then I guess how much it gives back. So in these cases where they're asking for money, they're asking for your time, they're asking for a greater capacity than what you can give.

Yeah. Like, what is normal? So I think it's amazing that you speak out about all of this. It's important. And what you said is very important as well because, you know, we are searching for something, right? A lot of us are looking for a sense of community, a sense of belonging, empowerment, kinship,

know, and cults cater specifically to that, you know, because now I speak out not just again, not just about the UCKG, but about cults in and spiritual abuse in general. You know, I hope many survivors from many different cults. But the important thing to understand is, cults are so much more bigger than what we think. You know, there's different kinds of cults, there's religious and spiritual, there's self-help, there's political, there's wellness cults, there's so many different cults. And the reality is, no matter who you are, whatever your vulnerability is, whether it's your kind of, you know, frustration at, you know, civil society or politics, there's a cult for you, you know, no matter what you're going through,

there's always going to be a cult that is literally vying for your attention and your vulnerabilities. And that's what makes it so difficult, you know, with young people searching for a sense of spirituality, cults are the perfect opportunity because cults more things. into exactly what you want them to be. And the reality is nobody, and I mean, nobody wakes up and Googles, what's the nearest cult to me? No one does that.

A lot of people think, well, you must have been stupid to get involved. Like, no, I didn't join a cult. I joined a youth group. Yeah. I joined a church. For other people, I join a political party. I join a social movement.

It's never a cult. It's not until much, much, much after that you realize it's a cult. So that's the dangerous thing. So having these conversations is so important because the reality is if you yourself haven't been in contact with a cult, you probably know someone who did. Yeah. You know, cults are widespread. You know, they are so widespread and they are sophisticated, you know.

They literally can morph into whatever you want them to be. You know, there's so many cults, so many. And it's so easy to spot when you have that eye. But you can tell, you know, the difference between a healthy group is that, you know, you have. have free will, you know, you're not coerced. If you want to leave, you can leave. You're not defensive if there was any questions or challenges. But when you're in a cult now, it's the complete opposite.

I just want to find. It's a lot. Question. So with the UKG, what's their tagline? Did they have a tagline? Do you have a lot of like these? Yeah, they got one. They have two.

We have a heart to help. Oh, yes. And stop suffering. That's my tagging. It literally says stop suffering on their headquarters on Finsbury Park. It says a big sign, stop suffering. And it's like, yeah, well, you guys made me suffer. Like, what the heck?

Yeah, that's horrific. So have you ever heard back from any of them seeing the work that you do now speaking out against them? Yeah. So they're very, it's a classic cult. So cults never put their hands up and say, oh, we apologize for destroying your life, you know, they never do that. It's always, you're persecuting us. The media's against us. It's always the exact same. So essentially, when I started speaking out a few years ago, you know, they were

blindsided. They were used to people not speaking out. You know, they were used to going under the radar. Because when I started speaking out, there was no press about them. When you Google them, it was always the positive things, nothing, you know, what we see now. So when we started getting this attention, they of course played it down. You know, there was a meeting. they held a crisis meeting as they do, where they were basically slagging me off. You know, I'm being used by the devil. I left because of sin. I have mental health issues.

They were throwing a whole bunch of stuff. And someone who was also quiet quitting recorded the whole meeting. And that ended up in the Guardians podcast. Yeah. But they didn't expect that. Because Colts bet on silence, you know, they thrive off of silence. and people being afraid of them and not speaking out. But I decided to change the narrative.

You know, when I started speaking out, which was after my separation, because when we separated during lockdown, for the first time I had the strength to kind of talk out because even though my ex-husband left, he was still very much afraid of them and he wouldn't speak about it. So it was always like a great area. I couldn't fully explore it. Whereas when I separated now, it's like there's nothing stopping me.

Why don't I'm like, go live one day? So I spoke to a friend who also used to attend. And I'm like, I'm going live. Come on live with me. Let's do this. And then we literally went live. We spoke about the unspeakable because that was like the worst sin. Like the worst sin was to talk badly about the church.

That was like the ultimate ultimate like surefire way of going to hell. So even though I left many years at that point, it was still scary. I felt like I was doing something illegal. Like it was so crazy. I'm like, am I going to die now? Like is something going to fall out of the sky? But then it's like, Rachel, you're not in a cult anymore. You're saying it.

Yeah. I had to like calm my nervous system. Like, it's okay now. Like, nothing bad's going to happen. You're talking your truth. And after that, the flood gates opened. You know, people started to see the lives and they also wanted to come on live and share their story.

And the silence was literally broken because up until that point, there was no kind of exposure. You know, now and again, people would speak out about these groups, but there was no kind a central organization for it. It will just be like one person here, one person there. But it quickly turned into a thing where I saw there was a need for this. Like there's a need for this to be done properly. We need to give survivors a voice. The church's response was to basically they tried to kind of weigh it out and hope that I would just like, you know, kind of burn off and like stop. But it didn't happen. It got so much more worth. So they've never apologized for anything. they've never reached out to me.

It's been pretty much just trying to ignore, but yet, you know, still kind of, you know, she's being used by the devil. You're not allowed to go. It got so bad, I think last year that the pastors actually started searching the youth's phones and started, you know, let me see your phone. If you're not doing anything wrong, you know,

let me see your phone. And they would actually go through some young people's phones to see if they're following me. And they would patrol my comment section. You know, there were some young people left comments maybe agreeing with something and then they were being told you know to come in for a meeting and it's like why did you comment this you know didn't we help change your life you know you're making the church look bad it was crazy above all you're you're doing that like you're

providing a safe space and a platform for people that they'll feel pressured to stay in it now but like there is the space for them to be supported when they're ready and I think you're an incredible person and turning that kind of trauma into something so impactful that can save so many other people is amazing thank you so thank honestly thank you for sharing your incredible story and where can everyone find all the information about you and what you do sure we are widely on social media so we're on ticot instagram blue sky surviving universal UK you'll find us on all major platform incredible thank you so much rachel we've loved having you Thank you.