Tech Over Tea - #37 What Is Crypto UBI, Why You Should Care - feat TravCrypto

Episode Date: November 11, 2020

On today's episode of Tech Over Tea, TravCrypto and I talk about universal basic income, not just any sort of ubi specifically crypto ubi which has been gaining a lot of attention especially during the events of this year. ==========Guest Links========== Crypto Channel: https://odysee.com/@TravCrypto:8 Vlog Channel: https://odysee.com/@TravTravelz:8 Twitter: https://twitter.com/TravCrypto1 ==========Support The Channel========== ► Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/brodierobertson ► Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/BrodieRobertsonVideo ► Amazon USA: https://amzn.to/3d5gykF ► Other Methods: https://cointr.ee/brodierobertson ==========Video Release========== 📚 LBRY: https://open.lbry.com/@TechOverTea:3 🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBq5p-xOla8xhnrbhu8AIAg DISCLOSURE: Wherever possible I use referral links, which means if you click one of the links in this video or description and make a purchase we may receive a small commission or other compensation. I am a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and related sites. 🎵 Intro Music Aces High by Kevin MacLeod Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3337-aces-high License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

Hello everyone, and welcome back to Tech of a T. I'm, as always, your host, Bruno Robertson, and today we have someone who I've been wanting to bring onto the show for quite a while now since, what, the Library Foundation scandal a few months back. Welcome to the show, Trav Crypto, but that's not the topic for today. We can leave that in the past. Maybe we'll get to it at some point, but for now, that's not the point. Thank you. Glad to be here. And there is a lot of lag and there's nothing i can do about it that's just a problem with uh you're in yeah it was texas you said texas yep so you have a whole ocean between us plus my connection's not great and i don't know

if your connection's great either what are you rocking probably not probably not I don't know if your connection's great either. What are you rocking? Probably not. Probably not. See, I could deal with the delay between the, like, me hearing you, or me seeing your video feed and your audio feed and me responding to it. The problem is everything on your side is desynced as well. So my suggestion this time is

anyone who can't deal with it just go listen to the audio version the audio version should be tolerable i hope oh god it's gonna be hard to respond i can't even look at your camera i'm just gonna put something in front of your face okay um that's, that's probably a bad idea. Anyway, uh Well, the topic for today is You've been tweeting a lot. Actually, we'll see if we can find... I should be able to find a new Twitter It's the only thing you ever talk about You've been talking a lot about crypto UBI

Trav... what is it? Travcrypto1. There we go Can I find anything? So one day you're not talking about it all the time uh yeah so i i guess um how i how i kind of got started with ubi right is i i was looking at you know i've been involved with nonprofits in the past, right? So me and a friend, we did a nonprofit in the past, long story short, where we went to a different city in the United States every week, did video production work and marketing for different nonprofits, right? And so I kind of got, you know, more interested in the nonprofit space. And I started seeing some of the difficulties like people around the world we're dealing with,

right. And also, I'm very interested in personal finance and economics and things like this. And so I see this huge wealth disparity between like some of the people that are being helped by nonprofits. And then I see like very wealthy, successful entrepreneurs. And I try to fit like I started thinking, you know, why is there this huge wealth disparity? And that's kind of like what got me interested in the first place. So before we get way too into the details, for the people who somehow don't know what UBI actually means at this point, give people a basic rundown of how you interpret it. Yeah, so the three letters UBI stands for Universal Basic Income. And you can basically break it down just like that.

It's universal. It should be offered to everybody in the whole world um basic or the proponents of this say so right basic um would mean it's a regular basic um consistent and then income is obviously money right um some kind of some form of income and currency so it's a universal basic income offered to everybody and proponents of it um yeah it's actually been around a lot longer than you think there's actually some most people would think um there's been some big time proponents in past history and a super interesting subject so most people when they hear ubi who know about it typically get scared away very very quickly because they will think government controlled

it take all your money basically but that's not the sort of ubi you're talking about here correct so i just mentioned what ubi is right And it's a universal basic income. And me myself being very much libertarian, if you will, and kind of against big government and things like that. Initially, when I heard about UBI, I thought, oh, that's crazy. It sounds like what the Roman Empire did back in the day, right? They did bread and circus. They handed out all kinds of free things to appease the people in a time that was really, really bad. So it initially kind of turned me away the whole universal basic income idea. But then the path of UBI and crypto kind of collided and that's when i really got interested in what is called crypto ubi so it's distributing universal basic income

through the technology that blockchain offers because i could definitely see why a lot of people wouldn't be in favor of a government-controlled solution one because obviously that's going to massively increase your taxes and since starting a business I've come to agree that yes taxation is theft um and also if you rely on the government to do it then you have to trust the government is going to uh I guess how would be the best way to describe it distribute it in a fair way and then distribute it in a consistent way as well without you know favoring certain groups of the society so let's talk about that for a second right um a perfect example um at least here in the united states um something that I thought was absolutely crazy and I thought would never happen was the stimulus check that we received this summer, right? So me growing up in a

conservative household and I have a lot of friends and family members who would totally be against UBI, let's say. So anyways, but my point is that this huge stimulus check from the US government, that was just like so shocking to some people. They never thought that that would happen. And so besides that point, the actual distribution of that stimulus check was a nightmare yeah so many people struggled with that so many people didn't receive it so many people uh delay some people receive the wrong amounts and all this stuff all these issues and obviously if we had a centralized version of UBI, like a government implemented version, what we would see is this centralized authority distributing income that people really need. People need to eat and pay their rent and things like this, basic needs. It could essentially just be, it could pick and choose who they want to give it to and and that is definitely

a major major issue the u.s is a weird one with this as well because uh with uh sorry that stimulus check was that just a one-time payment because i know that it was a one like at one time because i know that was it was supposed to be like a recurring thing or something. I don't, I know I've heard different people say different things about it. Yeah, so there's been, that's another thing. That's just goes back to the media, but there's been all kinds of confusion with this because at first it was like, will it be passed? Oh, it is passed. Some people got it.

Some people didn't get it. There's going to be a second round. There isn't going to be a second round. So there's been so much confusion in the media and just entire the general public. So it was a one-time thing and it's not a regularly distributed basic income, which political proponents, like let's say Andrew Yang here in the US, he's a proponent of a regular basic income. But I do see an issue while I am a proponent of the idea of UBI. I don't think that the best way or a good way at all, I think it's actually very terrifying for a government to distribute a UBI. I think that could lead to all kinds of problems.

Well, yeah, if we look at it from an Australian perspective, Australia is a very, very different country when it comes to welfare programs to the US because we've got a very similar system to the UK with our healthcare system. It's just as slow as well. It's a good idea to have if your country can afford it, but it is incredibly slow and there are serious problems with it. But when it comes to the,

I guess, government, it's not a GBI system per se, there are requirements for it. But when it comes to our welfare programs, it's sort of an unthinkable position in Australia to be like, we're going to remove those. Some politicians are like, we're going to increase it by $50. We're going to decrease it by $50. But removing it entirely is sort of an unthinkable position here. During COVID, the two main programs that got boosted up were job keeper and job seeker which are pretty self-explanatory in their names um job seeker was not really going to be used that much because no one's hiring uh and that was sort of one of the requirements actually applying for jobs but people who had job keeper that went through the business they're working for and that also had some other problems

there because then you had a second layer of bureaucracy where some businesses weren't paying the employee's job keeper or they were taking a cut off of the top of that like a bigger cut than they should have been it was just it's just sort of a mess when you have layers and layers of bureaucracy trying to manage these solutions that that's the point i was trying to get that get out there the more bureaucracy you have in a system like that, the more chances there are for corruption and the more chances there are for mismanagement. And just, it's going to be an absolute mess, basically.

It's a valid point. It's a valid point. And we saw a similar situation here in the US to where there was this, on top of that $1,200 stimulus check that was distributed, there was a $600 per month or week, sorry, stimulus. And a lot of like, let's say, minimum wage workers here in the US, they were actually making more money. That was the case here as well.

And they would at their job. Yeah, a lot of it. And it's just like, people were blaming them. People were blaming these workers. Hey, you know, that's not right. That's so wrong. They should go back to their job. But honestly, any person for their own livelihood and for their family, they're going to take

whatever position that they can be rewarded with the most amount of money. So it's like the incentives were all wrong. Yeah, the exact same thing happened here. For a lot of places, you could either choose to go back to work or continue staying on JobKeeper. And a lot of people are like, well, I get paid more. So, like, I work at, like, a supermarket. I work at a fast food. Self-explanatory.

Yeah. If I'm going to make more, like, most people are probably not thinking about it in the long run. Like, this is going to be damaging on the country's economy. They're looking at, okay, I have bills today. How do I pay the bills right now? Yeah. And it's an issue. And these people are thinking, you know, what's best for me?

What's best for my family? And the incentive is there. And there's just so much bureaucracy when it comes to changing that incentive. It's a bad thing. So let's move on from that and talk a bit about one of the projects that we said all the reasons why ubi is horrible right after we did all that let's talk about why if you if you take the bureaucracy out of it there might be something there so, one of the projects you've been talking about has been, at least I think it's the

biggest one you've been talking about so far, because there's two main ones you've been focusing on that's been Good Dollar and... Good Dollar and Adena. Are the dogs going to be quiet, or do you want to do something about them i hope

i can i can entertain people for two minutes if you want to do something i'll make an attempt yes i'll be right back okay cool so good dollar is this one right here that I was showing on the screen just before. So, this describes itself as... I'll put it on this screen so I can look at the camera. The world's first people-powered basic income. GoodDollar is a digital coin and wallet that focuses... Folks, wait. I cannot... Look, okay. I've said this before. I don't know if I've said this on the podcast.

I know one language and I can't speak it. I've said this before. I don't know if I've said this on the podcast. I know one language and I can't speak it. Good dollar is a digital coin and wallet that allows you to receive free basic income with real monetary value straight to your phone. So I'm honestly not a fan of crypto solutions that only have a mobile app. I don't know if you can log into this through the website. If I make this bigger can i see maybe maybe there's a web portal as well but i really don't like foreign only solutions

i'll be back i didn't win yet sorry about that that's okay um yeah so the attempt has been made let's see if it works um i'm currently house-sitting slash dog-sitting for some friends in Austin, Texas. But yeah, two of the projects that I've been talking about. Let's see, what have you seen on Twitter? Let's hear from your end. Well, I think the thing that made me start paying attention was when you had that very, very long twitter thread with arias

just going back and forth about why ubi is like uh he was saying it's going to basically destroy everyone's uh morale and make no one work and then you're on the, obviously, being for the UBI side. I haven't looked too much into it myself. I did briefly check out GoodDollar's website. Do they just, the one thing, this is not anything to do with the project itself. Do they just have a mobile app? They actually, so there is not a mobile app app currently okay it's just a web it's a web app but obviously you can use it on desktop or mobile okay because the way it read on the

website was okay you know i see it yeah the way it read was that it was a mobile app um i just really don't like crypto projects that only have mobile apps oh yeah i actually use it every day from like the brave browser that i use on my desktop so and then my girlfriend she only ever uses it on her phone so it works both ways but they do plan on releasing a mobile app soon i like the option of it but it's just i i have my desktop i want to keep stuff on the desktop. I agree. I thought it is for phone things So yeah back to me and Arius on Twitter Basically me and him have had actually had a lot of good conversations in the past regarding economics and we typically talk about things like scarcity and and

Old and Bitcoin and things like this. So I guess when I started talking about UBI, he was kind of like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what's happening? And basically he saw it as the UBI we just spoke of. He saw it, he thought I was mentioning it as a government issued UBI. I'm actually not a proponent of that. I think it can lead to a lot of bad things like we mentioned before. Let's look at some of the history of the Roman government and you can see

there's a lot of issues with that. And just back to privacy and security, right? As individuals, we don't want to rely on a government to supply us with our source of income. That's a problem. That can lead to a lot of problems. I basically told him on Twitter, I'm a proponent of crypto UBI. So UBI that's distributed through blockchain technology. And two of the projects, I guess, that I've talked about a lot on Twitter, as you mentioned, are GoodDollar and Idina. So, GoodDollar, as you just mentioned, what, well, I'd like to hear what, what was your kind of perspective

or take on GoodDollar from like, as an outsider? Honestly, I think it's an interesting approach. Has this, one thing I've been curious about, has all of these crypto UBI projects been around for a while or have they all just suddenly popped up now or do they just like gain popularity because a lot of people are out of work? Like that's, that's something I wasn't sure about whether, yeah, whether they're all just here because of COVID or gaining popularity because of COVID. That's an absolutely great question. So just a second, I'll tell you my little story

on how I even got interested at all in crypto UBI. I do want to talk to you about that as well, yeah. To answer your question directly, basically these projects, a lot of them like Dina and GoodDollar, and you may have seen a project called Circles. There's Baza Foundation. There's Pi Network. There's quite a few of these crypto UBI projects, right?

And I would, as a general overlying statement, I would say most of them are new within the past three years okay so probably the oldest one is from 2017 at the latest so they're relatively new the interesting thing that i've seen in the past probably well this year really this year in 2020 uh you know we've seen d5 you know if you year in 2020, we've seen DeFi. If you're interested in cryptocurrency, you've seen DeFi. You've seen NFTs kind of take off. But also crypto UBI, the whole crypto UBI space in 2020 kind of took off. And I think that's because of all the issues that we've been seeing around the world with COVID-19.

We've been seeing a lot of different issues around the world. And there's a lot of proponents that say an equally distributed crypto UBI could solve a lot of these issues without bureaucracy. So that's how we've seen a major increase recently. that's how we've seen a major increase recently. The reason I bring up the question is I don't know much about these projects, but my concern was that if they had suddenly popped up because of COVID, there is a chance that some of them are trying to take advantage of people being worried about what's happening right now. But yeah,

if they've been around, like some of them have been around for longer, like I can, I can get why they'd suddenly become popular, but I would just be worried about the fact that any of the new ones could be a little bit sketchy potentially not saying they are i don't know anything about them but it's certainly a worry that when there's a world pandemic you suddenly have all of these uh platforms that show up saying we're gonna give

you free money oh that's that's great that you mentioned that because it's always something you have to consider not only in finance, but specifically in the crypto space. Any project, you always have to look at what are their incentives, right? mine of a cryptocurrency how much they control things like this because if the wrong incentive structure is in place it can obviously lead to issues down the road yeah um yeah i've just got your your twitter thread up right now just i didn't realize it kept going on longer than i kept reading it for geez okay okay it ends there um yeah i did also say that you wanted to have a talk with arius about ubi at some point i don't know if that's happened or not it's happened offline or anything i'm up add him to this call right now he's a guest star actually he's joining right now no um yeah it would be an interesting conversation to have with

him like i said because i know he's so against government issued ubi i'm also against that and i think it'd be interesting to kind of have a little debate between me and him so you'll see that soon enough yeah that i definitely want to say that that does sound like an interesting talk for sure because i i can definitely so yes go ahead go ahead sorry delay no we're gonna have to deal with that entire time um i can understand from his perspective why he would be against it knowing all of the stuff he knows about the fall of the Roman Empire. But I would like to see what his take on a decentralized solution actually would be. Because, yeah, the problems that he brought up, most of them related to a, I guess, a centralized solution.

But the problem of giving people free money still does exist, where you sort of mess with the incentive to work at that point. I think that's a problem that no matter how you end up doing the UBI solution, whether it's through a good, through government handouts or through some sort of crypto project, you still need to worry about whether people, I guess, will still take the effort to actually go and do something productive with

their time. That is a great great argument and i totally see uh what you mean i think a lot of proponents for ubi would kind of argue the point that bi isn't supposed to be a total replacement for somebody's income uh but rather a small stipend, like a ground floor for people to stand up from. That's a phrase that's quoted a lot in the space. Because I totally agree with you. It's kind of what we mentioned earlier, right? If I'm a minimum wage worker and all of a sudden someone says, hey, here's this crypto UBI called UBI coin. You can just sign up here and you'll make the same amount of money as you do going to work and you're good. You don't have to work anymore. Obviously that takes away the incentive for people to work. And I think a lot

of proponents for UBI, like I said, would tell you that this is supposed to be like, a worst case scenario, solving basic needs for people, if they come across, you know, one statistic is like over 50% of Americans, this is just in the US, but over 50% of Americans couldn't afford an unexpected $400 what's the um so that's i've seen the number before but what do you remember what the number is for like how much the average american has in their savings because it's some really low amount oh it's got to be around that amount right it's got to be around like the 400 because if they can't cover a 400 unexpected 400 unexpected bill um yeah i totally see your point i think the number is like 100 or 150 or something like that that that sounds

right to me but i could be mistaken yeah and so mainly we see this huge wealth inequality gap, especially here in the US, but all throughout the globe, especially in countries that there's over a billion people earning less than a dollar a day in the world. So that's another fun stat. Not fun. It's an interesting statistic that's really unfortunate. But it's an interesting statistic that's really unfortunate. And so that's like, for the people that UBI could benefit, right? percent of the population has access to a cell phone so there's obviously implementations there that can be done where this peer-to-peer ubi can be created that's what really uh interests me yeah good that you brought that up because that was something i did want to mention a lot of people they're very stuck in thinking in this like in an australian context or a u.s context or a uk context but there are far more countries in the world than just those

and some of them like the average income is nowhere near as high as it is in any of these countries because there is nobody in the u.s who is actually below the world poverty line unless they literally don't have an income everyone with a job in the u.s is in the one percent of the world absolutely and so yeah poverty here in the U.S. isn't nearly the same as poverty somewhere in Africa, per se. Here's like situations where in developing countries could be a crypto UBI created to where, you know, to somebody like me or you or someone in a developed country that maybe has a reasonable income. So let's just use the example of 25 cents, a quarter USD example. That's not a big deal to me. It's almost not worth my time to claim that basic income every day. But that's when we have a situation called proof of need, as it's been called, like in the good dollar project that's

been mentioned. And proof of need basically is the thought that somebody like me or you might not need an extra 25 cents, right? For me, it'd be like 40 cents because the australian dollar is garbage exactly for you it might be worth it no um but that that value right we we might not see too much incentive go out of our way even if it's only a minute even if it's only a short amount of time it might not be worth our time to do that. As someone in a developing country, that's, let's just say a dollar a day. That's how much their income is. 25 cents, that's a 25% increase in income. That's huge. So that's kind of like the use cases that I'm very, very interested in. that I'm very, very interested in. And yeah, and I love that it's at this intersection

of crypto and UBI. Yeah. Yeah, so I guess I wanted to tell you a little bit about how I got interested in the idea of crypto UBI in the start. Okay, cool, because the next topic I wanna get into is gonna be a big one. One that a lot of people have very, very strong opinions on that's automation. So we can save

that one for just a bit because that one, I think it's going to take a while. Absolutely. So without going too into detail, I wanted to say this specifically for the people who are watching that are interested in cryptocurrency right aren't interested in let's say ubi okay so here's how i got interested i was interested in blockchains like bitcoin and ethereum right bitcoin with its proof of work protocol sorry yeah proof of work protocol and ethereum currently has a proof of work protocol. Sorry, yeah, proof of work protocol. And Ethereum currently has a proof of work protocol, but they're trying to transition to a proof of stake protocol. That all being said, both of these protocols, if you think about it,

now I'm no expert, but just from my analyzation of these protocols, both protocols lead to a concentration of wealth. And so simply explain, this is how I see it. Proof of work, Bitcoin. If you think about the people who are able to mine new Bitcoins on the blockchain, it's very centralized. It's only a select group of people nowadays. In the beginning of Bitcoin,

anybody with a laptop or a PC could do it. Nowadays in 2020, it's difficult. Somebody like you or me, or I won't say you because a little bit more technical than me, but most people, right? The average person. Do you know how much electricity costs in Australia? The average person... Do you know how much electricity costs in Australia? I can't mine Bitcoin and make money. My state, okay, we'll go off topic for just a moment. My state has literally the highest electricity prices in the world. No, I can't mine Bitcoin and make money.

Maybe if I get an array of solar panels. In its own way, that's centralized right if only certain people have access to the source of new bitcoins yeah that to me is centralization then you have proof of stake protocols and proof of stake stake protocols are essentially whoever has the most of any given cryptocurrency it can take that stake it's similar to like a capital environment right somebody in a capital economic system with a lot of money it's easy for them to make more money this is someone without money someone with no resources no stake can't make money so i started thinking about those two things and about

some of the things I've learned in economics over the years. And I just realized how both those protocols lead to a centralization of wealth and power. And that's kind of what got me interested in trying to find a way to at least somewhat distribute that where more people can be involved in any given protocol yeah well i'm pretty sure i don't i've people keep telling me this i don't i've never looked it up myself i'm pretty sure that most of the bitcoin mining that's done is done by banks yeah or large large these huge huge institutions right like it's becoming the last fact that i saw was that the top four if you look at a distribution of the mining pool total bitcoin hash rate top four mining pools would uh would have over 51 of the network hash rate

jeez if you're familiar with with a proof of work protocol like that's when a 51 attack can be done and yes you could go into the technicalities of that but it's very centralized well yeah the problem with proof of work is it's okay the problem proof of stake as well but the problem with proof of work is as the project gets older if it remains popular it's going to become more centralized like obviously absolutely if you make new coins get library is for example much easier to mine than a bitcoin is and then some coin that comes out a couple of years from now and it's been out for a couple of days, that'll be much easier to mine

than library is three or four years from now. But you can't keep going with a single solution and have that not take up a very centralized approach. Correct, correct. And over time, like let's just use library for it as an example proof of work protocol over time it'll get more and more difficult for people to get involved with mining that as well so and obviously proof of stake has the exact same problem where basically like i i really like proof of stake it's a great way to make some extra money but it also requires you to have some extra income to spend as well i mean yeah yeah it it takes

money to make money we've heard that phrase you know in finance and things in the past but it really applies here in these protocols like you actually need wealth to create wealth with these protocols yes so i don't want to get on that topic yet if we can come back to that uh talk a little bit about idina later on uh yeah we can definitely do that but yeah what were you gonna ask about automation well it's it's less of a ask about automation and i kind of want to know where i i can sort of a guess where your uh what your stance is on this and i think we have a very similar stance and as someone with a a software engineering background i can tell you that your stance is probably completely correct so that's setting me up for failure right there what if i like just come out of nowhere and tell

you the exact opposite thing you say that uh we're just going to i don't know work alongside the machines and everyone's always going to have work that can't be automated is that ah that's it no no um yeah i would imagine a lot of people know, maybe have a similar stance to you and I, right? Because if you look at even over like just the past century, we've already seen so much automation in every industry. It's not like, you know, a lot of people like the most recent thing is driverless vehicles, right? The most recent thing is driverless vehicles, driverless trucks, semi-drivers or 30 million semi-drivers or whatever the number is. Such a large amount of workforce is going to be put out of jobs. If we look at other industries, we've seen already the automation. We see it all the time.

We see it when we go in a fast food restaurant. automation, right? We see it all the time. We see it when we go in a fast food restaurant, right? If you go into a fast food restaurant today, many of them have like these self-serve kiosks, right? I go into the grocery store and like, if you, and everyone says, oh, well, that's going to be, you know, 10 years from now, that's going to be a while from now we don't need to worry about that but yes the question i i like to ask people is you remember when they were first talking about a self-checkout um kiosk at the grocery store like it was like a one-off thing it was like ah that it'll take forever for that to happen then it's like as it like a year later it's in every grocery store almost it this stuff can happen very very quickly yeah there's still a few places here where they don't have them but that's usually like the little uh little delis and stuff like that is deli in

australian where i don't fucking know um the little like the little corner stores basically those are basically the only places that don't have the self-serve checkouts but any of the major supermarket chains they have primarily um primarily still have humans cashiers but they've also got this big line of the self-serve as well which also was sort of a problem during covid because then they had to constantly be wiping them down yeah yeah it's like an issue in itself but if you think about situations like that you see like how much of work can be automated away so quickly and some people you know they they really don't see the big picture on this because they look at minimum wage or like your average worker and they might say, well, they just need to go and get another job. They need to get a skilled labor job. But for a large, large group of people,

that's not possible. You know, maybe're working full-time at this job. Maybe it's been a career job for quite some time for them. And this automation leads to more and more of these jobs, more and more incomes being taken away from people. So it's a tough, tough, tough issue. And I don't know that I have like the exact answer if I did. Maybe I could be a politician, probably not, because they usually have the wrong answers. But um, oh, it's something that we need to be discussing now. I don't think it's that's something I am sure of. It's not an issue that we need to say, oh, that'll happen in five years. That'll happen. No, it can happen very, very quickly. So I think we need to talk about it now and start addressing it now.

Well, you did bring up trucking for just a bit there. And that's actually an interesting one, because that's one that will probably hold out for longer than people might expect and this is something i was talking about on an earlier podcast where i had um uncle bonehead on that was a fun one um that was an annoying one to schedule because he works all the time because he actually is a trucker uh he went when i brought up that problem he said that it's much more likely that at least for the meantime the position of a truck driver is probably going to shift more into a mechanic position because you can't simply just send out a truck on the road because it it could get bogged in sort of... like you could be on a dirt road and

it rains and then you get stuck there or there's some sort of mechanical fault and the drive of the I guess now mechanic would need to repair it so in that case you could have a shift of a shift of role but when it's something like say a factory line is obviously a really good example where most factory lines are now you have a Very minimal staff you have someone there that make sure the machine is working They push the button it works if it stops working they fix it but it's not like you have a line of people there they're actually assembling stuff and If we look at another example where it hasn't hit Anywhere near as much yet in say the fast food

industry where it's actually the it's the exact same thing as a mechanical assembly line where you have this line of people who are all doing their individual jobs you have one person putting meat on the grill one person putting the bun in the thing and then assembling the start and then putting the meat on the burger and then people handling the burgers to people this is the exact same thing as a factory assembly line the only reason it hasn't been automated yet is because it's a much i guess much finicky much more finicky job where you have to have much more precise actions and this just hasn't really become cost efficient to do yet but once running these machines drops below whatever the minimum wage is for your state there's no reason for that not to replace the people in that position absolutely and um it's interesting talking about automation because, fun fact, I come from a family of farmers.

My family's been involved in the agricultural industry for seven generations. Obviously, here in the United States, we've seen 100 years ago to where a majority of the population worked in agriculture. And now modern day, only a last stat I saw was like two to 3%. I could be off, but it's somewhere around that two to 3% of the population now works in agriculture. So we've seen a lot of that automation in that industry, right? And I think the thing I'm most worried about is not necessarily the automation, because to me, as I guess, millennial and somebody who supports new technology and things like this, I think automation can be a great thing. I think it can

make us more productive. It can use a great results. It can increase safety. It can do a lot of things, but place where we need to watch out is the profits from like, let's use amazon for an example amazon can make more profit from automating a certain task removing a laborer a general laborer when they remove that late yeah a human resource right um when they remove that human resource so that's one job taken away that's profit gained for the corporation of amazon so now you see a corporation or people that already have capital yes people who are already wealthy they are getting more capital and then the average person is is either losing a job or getting less capital so i think that's really where we need to be cautious i think also with uh with that a lot of people with automation focus on the low skill tasks the low skill tasks are the

ones that people know can very obviously be automated there's no reason as i said you can't automate and a meat assembly line or anything like that. But it's not like automation is just hitting these positions. There's a lot of automation being used in the medical industry where for things like cancer detection with...

It's like vibrating in my ear. I don't know why. So with things like cancer detection we're getting to the point now where you can build artificial uh intelligent systems that can more easily detect or more efficiently and more accurately detect the presence of cancer than a doctor could and it happens in god it's too early in the morning um but the point i'm getting at here is that it's not just the low skill tasks that are getting automated so besides the fact that saying just upal yourself isn't really possible for a lot of people,

it's not like that's the only part that is going to be hit with automation. Oh, there's another good example. I've been seeing a lot of advertisements for tools to basically automatically generate a website, just drag and drop stuff, and it just makes the website magically for you. So obviously you have things like, what's the one that everyone talks about the one that got sponsored a ton of people um the automatic website yeah uh wix or work yeah but there's obviously tools like that there's also tools that try to focus more on the more technical developer side as well where they're also becoming drag and drop so

even like high skill software engineering tasks where a lot of those jobs are going to basically become automated in some ways, where it obviously does make the job easier for the person who's doing it. But once that goes far enough, you can start eliminating extra software engineers at that point. And that's where you start seeing an even more serious problem. But I feel like for the most part, a lot of that automation is still a considerable length of time away. But as you've been saying, that's no reason to just leave it for a problem to deal with 10 years from now when no one has work.

Deal with it now when some people don't have work. deal with it now when some people don't have work yeah and i think it's it's something that we can be discussing now and and looking at the reality of of the matter rather than saying oh no we'll worry about it later on you know it's something that we can be having a conversation and kind of find what the best avenue will be as far as addressing this so yeah it's uh ai is is an interesting thing i'm glad you mentioned that because um have you seen the idina project at all uh no that one i haven't actually even looked at the website for let's look at it right now okay so i'll give you the brief rundown on what idina is right we talked about proof of work bitcoin proof of stake uh soon to be ethereum hopefully maybe like 20 years from now i'm just kidding um um and then we have so idina their goal is to be proof of person. So it's essentially one person on node. So you're wondering, well, how do they

do that? Couldn't somebody just download two nodes on two different computers? Well, the whole idea is that you have to prove your unique humanity at a certain given time, it's called a validation ceremony. Right now, it happens about once every 15 days, but the goal is to have it happen about like once a month. And what you do is you go to this validation ceremony, prove that you're a human. Here's the cool part, right? And I know somebody like you will respect the privacy aspect of this and so no kyc and no self-identification in any way not even an email address is required to participate in this validation ceremony. It's a lot to unpack.

Right. I want to know how it works. Yeah. Just simply put, it's like I said, so the next one is on November 15th, right? And if you want to try it out, go for it. November 15th, okay? But what's going to happen is you've done a Google Captcha before, right?

Sure, yes. Click like all the little buses. Yeah, and work out if the one pixel of the bus is in the other square. I'm not sure about it. Yes. So it's actually easier than that. Easier than that. But it's more difficult and nearly impossible or to this day so far it hasn't been possible for an ai to solve this okay so what it is it's two sets of four pictures okay so this side has

four pictures boom boom boom boom and then this side has four pictures and you can probably see it on the website if you're looking right now but um it's called a flip. So as a human, it's easy for us to understand. We can look at the left side, the right side, which one of these is a logical story. Okay. The water spilled or the cat spilled the water. I cleaned the water up with a sponge. It's a logical story. This is the other side doesn't make any sense, right? I just used that example because that's the example on the website. Yeah, I'm looking at it right now. So you go through, you got to do six of these in under two minutes.

Do you think you could do that? Probably, yeah. That makes sense. Do you think you could do that? Probably, yeah. So anyways, if you do this, if you pass the validation ceremony, that proves your identity as a unique person. There's no way for you to do, you couldn't do more than two of these at a time because it all happens at the same time and the reason i mentioned this idina project and why i think it's interesting it's because it involves what it solves the problem called a cyborg attack right

a cyborg attack is like when you see on twitter like all these fake followers and they're supporting this certain cause these companies can just go and buy these accounts they're just bought it accounts and so this this makes sure that each person only has one identity it's a very interesting project it could help solve something like Crypto UBI because each person will only have access to one account. I'm still not sure why you couldn't have multiple of these going at the same time. That part I'm not too sure about. Okay, so that part you could have.

You could try to do multiple at the same time. The problem is you wouldn't be able to humanly complete more than... Okay, supposedly there's people that have done two at a time. It's not humanly possible to do three or more at a time. Couldn't you map your mouse curve like you could write a very simple script to map your movements here's the thing they're totally random right okay that's the thing so it's everybody that's a part of this network currently there's about 4500 unique people across the globe which arguably makes it like the eighth most decentralized

network in blockchain, which is pretty interesting because most people, I guarantee you like 75% of the people that watch this probably have never heard of ID. So it'll be interesting. But anyways, it's very interesting because it's one person one node and therefore you could create like a democratic system per se you could create like one of these decentralized autonomous organizations and then every person would literally have one vote and you wouldn't be able to buy the votes like with your capital each person would get their own individual vote. Hmm. Okay. It's a lot to take in.

It is. I'd have to look more into it myself, but that does seem like an interesting approach to take. It seems like. It's interesting. And one of my favorite parts is that it's completely anonymous right you can do it without any kind of kyc or anything so that's a really interesting approach

i don't know whether this is this idea is going to take off for other projects because obviously it's a very expensive ordeal to migrate a blockchain from one sort of proof method to another. Absolutely. And that's why a lot of people have brought up that problem with Library because Library is a proof of work coin. And there's a website that I'll see if i can find it because it's kind of amusing it tells you what the uh the 51 attack for like all like pretty much everything yeah is it for library you think we could maybe pull some money together and uh i don't i think Uh, I think I can do it myself. No. And, and here's the thing, Brody, like I like talking to people like you that are a little bit more of a realist, right?

Look at things like this, look at potential problems and they address it. I've had this same conversation with some people and they, they say, don't do that. That would be horrible. Why would you ever do something like that and i'm thinking i don't want to do something like that but i want to address the issue or the possibility of it happening right yes uh it's 115 dollars yeah to be fair problem that's an issue it's better than bit tube bit tube is five dollars oh we got it let's do it let's do it on bit tube um yeah i mean there's obviously like some technical aspects to doing it and it's a little bit more yeah i think complicated than that i'm

no expert but there is a bit of a security risk with that right when it comes to proof of work systems so i think that's something uh you know some people aren't aware of when it comes to proof of work like 51 attacks and it's definitely an interesting subject obviously the the bigger the um the worker pool gets, the harder the attack gets, because Bitcoin is $476,000 to the attack. But when you're talking about banks that have the majority of the mining power, it's like that is unreasonable to happen. Absolutely. Yeah. And you could get, I know I hate to say it, but you could get i know i hate to say it but you could get an institution right you could get a bank or a government that is a bad actor yes it's happened in the past

believe it or not in past history there's been bad institutions and it can happen so i'm always a proponent of things that decentralize um networks and really allow for for user adoption allow for everyone to be involved on an equal level so that's what i'm really really interested in well one okay we've talked a lot about ubi and stuff but we haven't really talked much about any specific project. We briefly mentioned GoodDollar, but why is GoodDollar something that people should be paying attention to? What makes GoodDollar special as a crypto UBI project? Oh, something that I see very, very special about GoodDollar,

in my opinion, is that it's so user-friendly. My girlfriend, as an example, she's not a fan of cryptocurrency. She supports me being interested in it and things like this. She'll listen to me rant and things like that. like this. She'll listen to me rant and things like that. But as far as actually being involved in any given project, I've never really been able to get her on board, right? It's always been just slightly too, and I'm not much of a technical user, but I would say I'm slightly more technical than the average person. So I've been able know manage my way into some of these projects but the cool thing about good dollar is like my girlfriend she claims like crypto ubi

through good dollar every single day and it's no no issue for her so it's very very simple to use very user-friendly um that's the same thing but basically um it that's what i find interesting about it literally anyone can get involved if you have like the understanding of like venmo or cash app a simple app like that you can be involved with the good dollar project because i find that not just in the it's sort of a problem with the entire crypto space. A lot of the crypto space, and Library has addressed this very recently, is very technical.

Like, you go somewhere like read.cash. I don't know if you've ever been to that website. Basically, it's a blog. Yeah, if anyone doesn't know, it's a blog. I'll bring it up. It's a blogging website where you get paid in crypto for basically blogging. Um, the problem is the entire website is just covered in crypto prices and everything, like

the amount of crypto it's made under it. And you've got all these different cryptos you can get paid in and the website's not loading. Okay, that's good. Um, but it's just too much information on the screen and library was the same previously before odyssey where it'd be like here's how much uh library coin was made by the video and all this other stuff that people generally don't care about oh here we go now it's finally loaded um the problem with most people is they don't care about the crypto aspect

like hey maybe yeah making some money is cool but the crypto side of it is just like this you're not going to get most people into a project like that so you sort of have to give them something that's a bit cleaner and something that not to say that you can't have the option there for the power users where you do have like here is the advanced mode where you can see all that stuff but like if i say introduce my like i've got my stepdad actually watching stuff on library recently which is kind of cool uh he doesn't care at all about tech but he watches my tech videos i don't know why that's awesome but he thinks that at least now the uh the service is pretty pretty usable he didn't really have too much of a problem with it before but if you looked at some of the more

complex ones you can see how that sort of becomes an issue and even websites where they have this like token-y solution like twitch for example twitch they know how to show enough of their token that it sounds interesting without being like here are all of these other things that you don't care about yeah yeah absolutely Yeah, absolutely. The only problem, you know, you go back to library, it's nice that it is truly decentralized, right? That's the coolest part about the whole project. You can make some arguments right now because most of the nodes are owned by Library Inc. Yeah, exactly.

Let's say the most decentralized of any video solutions. So that's cool to see. And I totally agree, like, these user-friendly designs are the key, right, to adoption. right to adoption because otherwise you're just going to get the same people moving from one platform to another you know trying to i don't know gamify the system and like and pick up on these first um like first distribution of any given cryptocurrency yeah and that's not good that's not what we want we want more people to adopt these platforms so they have to be user-friendly yeah that that's a i would say that's a fairly fairly good take i would say um so okay what can people actually do with good dollar like it's all well and good to get this magic internet money but what can you do with the magic internet money great question so yeah good dollar right now uh back to the user friendliness and how you can use it but you know mention like for power users like

one example in crypto is like the wallet address right that's very confusing for newcomers like they're like what is this string of x y q r o zero one you know they're so confused so um it's cool like on good dollar you could click send and it creates a payment link and i could just share that payment link with you so like right now i could literally just on good dollar type type in X amount of GoodDollars and I could send it to you through a payment link. So that's one cool thing as far as the user friendliness goes. But you can use it to send and receive GoodDollar, right? And also, one actionable example of that is currently there is a good dollar market facebook group okay pretty interesting um over 10 000 people are in that group 11.2 right now i've got it up right now oh you're

looking at it right now wow you're ahead of the game um yeah so i guess over 11,000 people are in that group. And there's over 20,000 daily claimers claim good dollars. So that's very cool. And you can actually see it on the map in the good dollars web app. You can see from where in the world if you click on statistics, you can see what countries have claimed good dollars each day so anyways back to this marketplace to use good dollars you could go on there and exchange like currently in the time of coronavirus like a lot of the things on there are digital goods and services right to like prevent one-on-one contact it's cool like there's been people that have made music. There's people that have done yoga lessons. There's people that have... For example, I had a logo created from

someone that was in the group. He was in Sri Lanka. And he said, hey, I create logos for businesses. And I'm like, hey, I'm'm interested he told me the price i sent him good dollars the transaction took less than two seconds it's literally instant he sent me the logo and that was it so it can be used as a peer-to-peer currency and it operates on a side chain of ethereum so it's instant and yeah so far so good it's been really cool to be a part of uh if it's an ethereum coin wouldn't i don't know enough about ethereum wouldn't there be pretty terrible gas fees or is that not a problem on the side chains so it operates on the fuse side chain um which interacts with ethereum so when you claim good dollars in your wallet it's on the fuse side

chain right and if i were to send good dollars from my wallet to your wallet um if i wanted to purchase a good or service from you it all happens on the fuse uh side chain and good dollar actually provides you with the gas needed to send that transaction. Okay. Me personally, I've sent, I think, a little over 400 transactions, actually, just like messing around, interacting with people all throughout the world. And they've all been completely free and instant. Okay. Because, yeah, I'm running the Brave browser right now, and I haven't been touching any of my bat,

because I look at how much it'll take to take the bat out of my wallet and it will take half of it no that can stay there no don't touch it i'm the same way i'm the same way like if i get involved in like ethereum projects i'm like i'm in this for the long haul because the gas fees are only going up from here yep yep that's sort of i really in like the next 20 years when ethereum finally gets its shit together um that'd be nice i actually honestly if it doesn't dot's probably gonna take its position dot is getting a lot of a lot of traction recently yeah yeah dot is a totally interesting project honestly any project that tries to compete with ethereum for smart contracts um i mean dot is its own thing with like the parachain and all that but um other projects you know like um called am i thinking of charles

hoskinson cardano oh yeah things like that are trying to compete with smart contracts me i say the more the merrier right yes the more competition the better because if we get all this different competition it's just going to improve just like any kind of economic system yeah whenever you i think it's very interesting yeah whenever you let the big dog just sit there and have no competition things get boring like if you look at i don't know how much you look at the um the pc hardware space uh it it's been very uh yeah okay up until very recently um the graphics card space has been very boring because like Nvidia they're like the big dog and AMD has just been sort of like always

one step behind them and they've just been like okay we'll just give you 2% improvements because we don't need to do much our competitor's not doing anything but now that AMD actually is releasing I hope a good card you better not screw this up AMD

now that they actually are doing something that looks like a really good card hopefully next year they'll have to be like okay we actually need to take a step forward now and that's it's true in every single industry if if the big dog has no competitor they have no reason to try to push forward they're just gonna do enough where people don't you know don't people just find a reason to try to push forward they're just gonna do enough where people don't you know don't people just find a reason to upgrade but not enough where they have to actually invest a lot of r&d totally agree i totally agree and that goes for any industry like competition is absolutely key otherwise the the big players will just like buy like it's whatever they the the minimum viable product they will

always just get away with so i think competition incentivizes better products for for people so very cool yeah so i've just been scrolling through the uh good dollar work uh good on marketplace and i've noticed there's a a lot of interesting stuff on here um obviously as you're saying yeah it is a lot of um digital goods but it's interesting to see what people are willing to actually offer um yeah i see you've got a post on here from about beginner's guide to blockchain yeah yeah so um a lot of people are are like trying to um bootstrap the project i say i'd say because uh people are really interesting interested in the idea that uh this this project will allow people across the world to claim a crypto UBI, like the whole proof of need concept. So you see a lot of people in this marketplace that are offering actually some valuable services.

And they're almost doing it just to support the project, which is super cool to see because you have like this community coming together, offering these different, I don't know, you might have seen there's an artist on there. And she created a work of art, like a sketch drawing. And it's absolutely beautiful. It's awesome. It's a great piece of art. And anybody that sees that they'd say, wow, this is valuable. This is really great. And you look at the comments and there's so many people interested in interacting with her and actually commissioning her to do a piece. So I think it's cool on both ends because you have this community willing to kind of collaborate with other community members. to kind of collaborate with other community members and you have these people offering services like these valuable services that are willing to like donate their efforts to the project so it's really interesting and now we're going to take a another approach to it

a couple of years when it gets more popular then you're going to start having government starting to take notice of it and this is we're gonna start seeing some interesting clashes because this has started to happen with a lot of crypto projects already where a lot of early people investing in Bitcoin they were making a lot of money and Not declaring any of it and the same is obviously gonna be true here as well, but of it and the same is obviously going to be true here as well but i don't really know yeah it's it's certainly interesting for sure um but you've definitely got that concern where once the governments do start taking notice of it they're going to try to be like okay

now we we want a bit of that pie as well and that's something that is a worry that you do have to keep in mind and as with any project in crypto with um like a fixed supply cap there's also there's always going to be price speculation involved right so based on you know the usage or the utility of any given project there's gonna be speculation and so as you see over time with a lot of these projects like Bitcoin you know at the beginning you had somebody buying a pizza for everybody's heard the story 10,000 10,000 Bitcoin um basically it's it's going to be interesting to see like you said because that goes for the whole crypto space right yes as to where these projects over time they they

increase in value and the government wants a piece of that pie so it's interesting how different projects go about addressing regulation and different bureaucratic things in the government. And like you said, it can lead to issues in the future. So I think every project needs to be aware of that and needs to have a strategy for cooperating with regulation. have a strategy for corrupt cooperating with regulation i know that u.s law is very confusing because you have like state laws you have to deal with as well with uh when it comes to any sort of taxes but in australia the way it's treated is any basically anything to a crypto is just capital so if you sell it you make money capital gains lose money a capital loss which means it's also going to be very very complex to actually start if governments do take notice of this to actually do your taxes with this because then you have to start calculating capital gains and capital loss

on the trades that you're making it would be nice one day this is a hope that i would like to see eventually happen that things like this don't get treated as a piece of property. They get treated as an actual currency. That would make it so much easier to handle, because then you just have to basically deal with it as a foreign currency, and that's considerably easier to do, at least in Australia. Absolutely. I think as you and i both know governments do want a little piece of the uh

the pie wherever that may be yep and uh yeah i mean that's what taxes are for right yeah crypto taxes are exceedingly confusing because i have some staking this year as well and and God, do you... Okay, I'm going to tell you guys how confusing staking is in Australia. So, when you buy and sell crypto, it's treated as capital gains. That's fine. I can deal with that.

But when you stake, it's treated as... Any of the coin you get back, it's treated as income. So, you pay tax when you get it at whatever the price is when you get it and then when you sell it you pay the difference between when you got it and when you sold it so you have to basically pay the tax in these two different blocks you pay just as much tax but you pay in two separate chunks so even if you don't sell

any of your stake you still have to pay tax on it here. Yeah, it's crazy. And that's why these platforms, right? That's why these exchanges and these centralized platforms, that's why they have KYC, right? There's practically no way around it. There's almost no way. Even with some blockchains's it's easy to trace using an explorer there's ways to trace back what what money went where and through who so governments are getting smarter and uh it's it's interesting i mean you have you have projects in the space like the privacy coins that

are they may not be trying to get around these things but it's it's gonna be we're seeing more and more especially with institutions coming into crypto we're seeing how regulators are like whoa whoa slow down yes if anything pauses regulation to get real bad it's gonna be coins like monero yeah absolutely yeah i'm just looking through some other stuff on the good dollar marketplace and i noticed some people aren't using it for the uh the best things like someone's like hey i'll give i give one good dollar to subscribe to my youtube channel yeah yeah i mean seeing that too to where um oh and and i could argue against that i i've seen that too to where, and I could argue against that. I've seen things to where people aren't providing much value to the community.

They might just go in and be like, my referral link for five good dollars. And kind of like this with the whole YouTube subscriber thing. But I guess what I could say about that is like, there essentially is some value, right, to be exchanged of someone following you on a social media platform, and then maybe you have a certain amount of value that you want to offer in return. viewed as spammy and it can be viewed as like maybe not the best method of acquiring a growth of followers but i think there is some value to be traded there possibly well i'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to do it but my point is that it is yeah it is kind of spammy they if they want to do it that's fine if people if people want to give them money for it, that's fine. But it's not like everyone's like, here, I'm an artist who can do this. Here, I can do this.

I can teach you English. I can teach you whatever language. I can teach you Bitcoin basics, things like that. There are people who are just trying to do, I guess, below the minimum amount of effort. Absolutely. And yeah, and I think you'll see that with any free and open market, right?

Any open market, you're going to see people that just kind of try to game the system, get by on the minimal value offered to the group. And that's always going to be the case. That's just kind of like a uh law of humanity i think in some in some sense so uh to the people that do uh contribute valuable goods and services i think it's kind of like goal of the community to promote those people over the people not providing that value well yeah i do notice that those people are the ones who are getting like a hundred plus comments and things like that like there's this one in here actually

this person did why did this not person not get many comments this person did um i think it's a different person did charcoal art of a flower and deadpool and it's like really good art or is it pink art i don't know what it is i'm not an artist but it's like really good art and yeah it's not as much as the other charcoal one you saw where it was like the charcoal portrait but it's still like that seems to be one of the ones that is getting a bit

more attention. As much as I don't like this, someone is doing one where they're talking about how dropshipping works something like that even though dropshipping has serious problems and getting involved in it is a good way to get yourself stuck in a pyramid scheme. Absolutely.

There is value there for sure. And so a thing we also have to kind of address is that, you know, Facebook might not be the best platform for this all to be happening. I did see you applying saying I would do, I think it's on Reddit or something. I would use this if it wasn't on Facebook. Yeah. And so I think it's like, it's not the absolute best platform for it to be happening on. But I think it's kind of seen as like,

a large, large portion of human beings in the world already are familiar with Facebook and use Facebook daily. It's a single domain that people are very familiar with. So it's just kind of like the whole bootstrapping community idea of, hey, this is something people are already used to, so let's give it a shot. And honestly, like in the past, what, three weeks, three, four weeks, it's grown tremendously, like over 11,000 people. But I think long term, it won't be the solution to a community driven marketplace. It's just like the first step. Well, yeah, you want to get it on its own platform eventually and however that ends up happening um but there's no reason especially when it's a very new project like this to be like i'm just gonna start a website like that doesn't make

any sense because as you said there are these communities and you can you can funnel people out of those communities because maybe there's a lot of people who had no idea about good dollar you can funnel people out of those communities because maybe there's a lot of people who had no idea about GoodDollar. They see it show up on their Facebook and like, what is this? And then sort of explore a bit and come check it out

where if you were just on a separate website, that isn't anywhere near as likely to happen. It's the idea of like two different domains. I know plenty of people that like might see it on Facebook and be like, literally just click join group and just like, they might do what you just did. Oh, there's a charcoal painting. That's kind of cool. Oh, it's drop shipping. I don't like that. Or like, they're just going to kind

of look through the post, they might see some things they're interested in. And they might interact a little bit with the community. That like you know the whole idea behind that group i think and then maybe long term there might be a decentralized community uh marketplace solution i think there's already some options out there but i think it'll take like the community as a whole kind of discussing what would be the best option so how long have you actually been using good dollar for so interesting and interesting enough i found out about good dollar like late last year let's say right late 2019 and it was just a it wasn't a main net yet it was just a demo. So you could open the app, you could send and receive good dollars, but it was all just on a demo test network. The actual official launch, I want to say September 7th or so of this year. So I've just been kind of watching the project from a distance

being involved and interested in crypto UBI. And then when they launched on September 7th, I'm like, hey, you know, I want to go check out this community because there is actually a project that I could be involved with and actually interact with other community members around the world and actually use, right? So I joined the Telegram group

and started talking to people in the community and I've been involved the past months. And you haven't been banned for reacting to anything? Yeah, yeah. The green checkmark is just fine in that Telegram group. So it's super cool. So how long has this marketplace been around for? Is that since September or has it been around before that? The marketplace has been around for over three weeks, two or three weeks. Wow. Okay. It's grown really quickly. have a user base of around 20 000 people from all over the world right and all of a sudden within a matter of two weeks really because the first week wasn't that many people but in a matter of two

weeks over 11 000 people from a 20 000 person user base that's pretty pretty cool that's to see yeah that's not many uh not many crypto projects can say they have that much uh that much engagement but you can't okay one thing that you can't be certain of is that everyone in the group is actually using good dollar like there might be some people who are totally agree i still checking it out yeah um oh actually there's a little poll in there today that I made asking people if they've bought or sold things with good dollar yet goods and services within the marketplace group on Facebook. And if they haven't done that yet. So it's interesting to see the people that actually are using it as a marketplace versus just general discussion. Either way, there's obviously an interest in this space and crypto UBI as a whole.

Yes. So it's cool to see people from all over the world. And some people are like the most basic users, have never used cryptocurrency before in their entire life. They're using this project. so it's really interesting that is kind of cool because yeah as as i said earlier that's not something that a lot of crypto projects really see especially early on a lot of them focus very much on the technical side like library is the same for three years or so it was basically unusable and then eventually they got a nice interface

and now we're at where we are now. But it seems like good dollars, like, okay, we have what we need technically. We also need an interface where people can actually effectively use this. Yeah. And it has to be something so easy. Like, for example, somebody on twitter made a tweet it

said so easy your grandma can do it and they literally showed a video of their grandma signing up with good dollar like on a cell phone and it was super easy and straightforward like so when i see stuff like that it's just it's cool to see people not from the space like not the most technical users getting involved because of the idea of the project and not not being hindered by all these little technical aspects like they can get involved from day one so that's really cool to see so let's see what was it so good dollar is the one that you're kind of putting the most effort into right now yeah is that right so let me turn this light on real quick too good i was using natural light um so

dollar i'm focusing on right now just because of things i mentioned before right the uh easy use case for anyone to be involved with i I love that my girlfriend's able to use it. That's so cool to me. She can interact with it daily and interact with this marketplace. It obviously supports the whole idea of a crypto UBI, like a basic income distributed through the blockchain. So I want to support any project that's behind that, right? So one thing I like to focus on is our projects that already have utility. Right. So the first projects I ever heard about was called the Pi Network.

It's not similar to GoodDollar in all these senses, but it is a crypto UBI project. Right. And so I want to support the space as a whole support competition. The problem with things like projects is they don't have any utility yet. They're just an idea. You can't send and transact with the pie currency. I wanted to be a part of something a part of a community that i could contribute to where i can it actually already has utility so that's what got me interested so okay i'm looking at pi network right now is this so you can't do much with it right now

it's just like you could go on there right now and claim pi right i could claim like you could go on there right now and claim pi right i could claim pi cryptocurrency you couldn't send it to me and you couldn't withdraw it to a wallet so you couldn't you know you it's one of those it's like the the clicker game you know like i hope i i'm not trying to bash that project okay i like the idea i obviously support crypto ubi but what i'm trying to bash that project, okay? I like the idea. I obviously support Crypto UBI, but what I'm trying to say is I wanted to hit the ground running. I wanted to be a part of a project that already had utility that you could send and transact with.

So that's why I was very interested in GoodDollar. Then Idina, that's the other one I obviously talk about a lot on Twitter. And that one's mainly I'm interested in the idea of like this crypto unique identity. I just I feel like there's so many implementations that can be done with that. Like I can't even imagine like if we could vote in the blockchain, that would be amazing with a unique identity and we could vote on the blockchain it doesn't even have to be in regards to like government elections i'm just talking about anything right like what if we could run a simple organization to where each person had one vote that would be so cool so i'm looking at the pine Network just now. So basically it's mining on your phone or something.

Is that? See, that's a little misleading, right? It's not actually mining. It's a test net. The number's going up, but your phone's not doing anything. Okay. How does good dollar work then? How is that?

Is that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As far as blockchain go or the protocol level, GoodDollar operates on the Fuse sidechain that I mentioned previously. Essentially, it's an Ethereum sidechain that is proof of work. Okay. So it's proof of work.

Yeah. Okay. No, that makes sense. Well, the other one you mentioned was circles. So why is circles not the one that you decided to go with? Does that still have the same problem that my network does? You're hitting me with the tough questions. Oh, this is great.

Circles. You know, I'm still discovering circles, to be totally... I'll be honest with you okay um i've heard of circles i've i've followed it for quite some time i've read the white paper i have a brief understanding of how it works um i do have like some personal questions that i've kind of interacted with the community. I haven't had like total clarity. Um, essentially my understanding of how circles works. Are you familiar with it? I, that's why you're here. Okay. Yeah. Great. So circles, uh, this is just like my basic understanding. Like I said, I haven't done a ton of research.

It's like create this circle, obviously, of connections and this network of people that you trust. Like I could create me, my best friend, my girlfriend, another best friend, right? Let's just use a five as an example. And you create this circle of five people and you verify their identity. Using that trust mechanism, that's how crypto UBI is distributed. So then each of those five members receive a crypto coin

that's specifically their currency. So like I would get Travcoin, you would get brody coin uh-huh um and then we could exchange those coins because we've already trusted each other right okay and that's kind of like my my brief understanding of how circles works um yes i guess to wrap like to summarize my overall broad view on these crypto ubi projects right is there has to be a method verify unique identity yes always going to be the crutch right because otherwise especially when you you offer people free money there's always going to be the crutch right because otherwise especially when you you offer people free money there's always going to be people who try to game the system there will always be i mean you could argue with me but no i'm obviously a completely in agreement i'm using

you in the general sense some people would be be like, oh, well, why would they do that? But it's always going to be bad actors. So you have to find a way to verify that each unique person is receiving one set of UBI rather than multiple. Yep. And any project that doesn't take that as a serious concern is a project that basically you should just be ignoring. Exactly. I agree. I agree. serious concern is a project that basically you should just be ignoring exactly i agree i agree so uh this is actually cool like the identity thing is actually something much bigger than this crypto ubi um seeing decentralized uh autonomous organizations you've seen like the whole ethereum um developer space they're all trying to solve this issue in different ways so uh it's something that i've been passionate about

ever since i realized it was a problem because it prevents it's like a stepping stone and it prevents a lot of technological solutions from happening. So I think if we can solve this identity solution, it would be really cool. Well, if we move away from the crypto space entirely, but still keep the blockchain there, this is going to be up after it happens, but the US election is very soon. Oh no!

Very, very soon. I gotta go. I'm not going to talk about the election part. The point I'm getting at here is you have this problem where a lot of people are doing mail-in ballots. That's what I'm talking about. A lot of people are doing mail-in ballots. I did.

Okay, yeah. talking about a lot of people are doing mail-in ballots i did okay yeah and this is a very very serious problem where it's basically impossible to work out i wanted to bring this up but i'm glad you did yeah it's basically impossible to work out whether someone has voted once if they're voting for someone else if because i don't know how complex their authentication is with the paper, but I imagine it's just you sign it, maybe do something else with the mail-in. I don't know. I can tell you exactly what it is because I just did it.

I received my mail-in. I requested a ballot online. I received it at my address. I filled out the ballot on a paper and I signed the ballot. I put it back in the mail, sent it back to the voting people, let's say, the election committee. And I i i was actually surprised i was surprised that i could see online like you know like usps how you can track it they had that i was surprised by i was actually somewhat impressed by that okay so there's a caveat to that and I'm getting to it right now. So I saw that I requested it. That was step one, two, I, I sent it, they received it and it's confirmed. Okay. What does that mean?

What is confirmed mean? Does that mean it was put in the paper shredder? I just, I have, I know this, I don't want to sound like a nut right okay so i don't want to get like too far out there but realistically back to like being a realist what would have prevented them from just not counting my vote i mean that's the problem with centralization right there was what state was it that had an election and they found a bunch of votes just sitting in a post office after the election was over i laugh i laugh but these are like the most kind of like the most atrocious things and i just i find them absurd and i guess that's kind of why i'm giggling at it it's very serious you know it's a serious concern and that's why I'm so interested like in the implementations and use cases for

blockchain. There's just so many like we could talk all day about them. But this is one example, elections. And currently we have a centralized system, don't have a way to see a public ledger of me verifying my vote, that I voted for this. And even if that were the case, there's other stories that we hear of like, dead people who voted. Like, there's all kinds of issues with the current election system when it comes to verification of someone's identity. And besides that, there's no way you can prove that

if I know your signature, that I couldn't have voted for you. Right? Absolutely. Yeah, you could have received, like, you could have, I don't know, done anything with my ballot. You could have just signed it and sent it back, and there's a vote for whichever candidate you want, not the one that I want.

So there's issues. And I don't understand how it's not a bigger issue in politics. It's kind of like we've just like take all our trust, just like put it in this system and just like it's the side. I think it's something we need to address, right? Yeah, especially with the the level of polarization that exists right now there if someone finds like here is a bag of votes from whoever they don't like there's nothing stopping them getting rid yeah they can just throw

it in the river and we've seen both it's horrible that i said that both sides that's how bipartisan it is here in the u.s you guys have a uh you guys can pretend like you don't have a two-party system but you do yeah yeah absolutely um and so in this bipartisanship it's crazy because you see one side against the other and listen you guys did this and we did that and blah, blah, blah. And when it all gets down to it, it's the system that's the problem when it comes specifically voting. Right. That is a problem with the system of voting. It has nothing to do with either side. do with either side and and what i'm talking about is like you'll see these news headlines of mailman that was in party a threw away party b ballots and it was how could party a do that

it's not it's not about party a or b it's a problem with the system you need to this actually goes all the way back to the start when you have these layers of bureaucracy in there it's very easy for more layers of corruption to exist where if you find a way to provide a safe and easy way to confirm these identities without having these extra things in between you can eliminate a lot of these challenges. Absolutely. And I think there's already, um, no technical implementations that could improve the system.

Kind of in this, you know, a lot of people I'm speaking kind of as a general population, um, Oh, they're not familiar with it. They're not familiar maybe with the issues or the solution. So that's kind of what sets us back.

And there's all this bureaucracy in between that prevents us from reaching that solution. So I want to be hopeful. I am a realist. So I say let's start taking actionable steps but i try to be hopeful we um this has actually happened since the i guess a couple of days before the recording we had a uh state election in queensland i don't care who won i don't live in queensland um but we had a state election there and that's so true, though. I totally agree with that.

I should care because Queensland's a big part of our GDP. But there was a lot of mail-in votes there. Mail-in votes are sort of a very... Mail-in is... It's way less of a controversial thing in Australia. Like, every single election, people do mail-in votes here. It's not... Like, old people do it, young people do it. People who just don't feel like going out, they'll do it.

Because in Australia, we also have mandatory voting. That's another problem that we have. Yeah, you get sent a fine if you don't vote. Wow. I want to almost say that I'm a proponent of that i don't want to be like i think that's i don't know that that's the best solution but i think that's pretty cool that there is like this value attributed to someone's vote well the problem is what you end up having is you have a lot of people who don't care about the election they just tick a box they don't care

it's just they might as well not vote in the first place yeah they like yeah like when you don't care in middle school on your quiz and you just kind of like but all over it because obviously your name isn't associated with a vote you just have to go to the voting booth you don't actually have to vote you can just close up the paper put in the thing and you're good yeah pretty much that might that might not be the right incentive yeah i don't think that uh i don't know what the fine is i think it's a i'm gonna find out um australia fine i'd love to see the uh statistics on the percentage of citizens that vote in

Australia versus the percentage that vote in the United States. It's a $50 fine. It's not like a massive fine It's enough to be annoying really want us Yeah, and it's like you can't even say like screw the system because you still got to pay them their fee right yep so yeah i'd be love to i'd love to see like the voter turnout between between the two country or any given country um that incentivizes people with a fine vote that would be interesting what is the voter it is pretty high 91.9 for the senate 91 for house of representatives oh my goodness yeah this i know that's significantly higher than the united states i'm positive uh let's find out 2016 voter turnout voter turnout it Voter turnout. It was...

Drumroll. 55.5%. Wow. Atrocious. It was up from 2012, though. That was 54.9%. Wow. Bitch gains.

But that's only because it was higher higher the year before or the time before in 2008 57.1 i will be interested uh not to get too political here but like i'll be interested to see the implementations of everything that's been going on with this United States election to see the voter turnout this year, to see if there's a larger turnout. It seems like

one of the most heated elections, right? So it seems like people would have more of an incentive. I don't know. As you said, not to get too political, it seems like a lot of people don't particularly care about Biden it's like vote against Trump I don't know how many people are going to be super interested in voting it's like oh okay I guess I have to vote to make sure orange man doesn't win yeah yeah yeah and I see I totally agree with that i think people uh you know it's a problem with the

bipartisanship right it's like the lesser of two evils right yeah so it's uh very much an issue uh and and that's a problem i see with the current system but yeah i'll be interested to see like how many people just show up well this year especially with the heavy pushing of the mail-in ballots how many people will just fill them out because it takes them like two minutes to do absolutely this was the first year i voted i didn't vote in person i voted uh from a mail-in ballot so well i don't i think it's gonna take a while to actually get the results this time around so we're probably not gonna have the results by the time this gets uploaded but if we do then i guess we'll find out but yeah the recording of this

what is it the second for you yeah it is it is yes okay uh when is. It is. Yes. Okay. When is, when, when is everything supposed to go down? Third tomorrow. So I guess we'll be watching this in hindsight or as it's happening. Maybe I'll definitely be checking it out. I've watched like an eight hour live stream of the 2016 election happened. Just cause I had to see what was going to happen. You turned it into like a sporting event. It's the U S okay. when the 2016 election happened just because i had to see what was going to happen you turned

it into like a sporting event it's the u.s okay i every other country's politics super boring the u.s is just it's a i don't know how to describe it's a reality tv show i watched the the um is it is i watched the two abates the two debates and i was like what am i watching right now this is not a presidential debate second one was better i will give them that it was a debate first one though is like no you suck no you suck it's like i think we could have had like better uh arguments if we would have went to like a kindergarten classroom and like what's your favorite color and go like that's kind of what it was it was atrocious but blockchain's not going to address that that's sort of a uh a whole nother problem you got to deal with

yep that's a whole different issue for sure but the um there are certainly other places where proof of person could be useful for sure um for example in like uh government welfare programs like there's actually having some way that isn't directly tied to here is you having a birth certificate here is you having all of this documentation which is very easy to lose and i've met people who that they've like either had a house fire or something and have just lost all of that documentation and it's very difficult to get all of that back so if you could have some way to say like the government knows that you are you are

you so if you have a house fire you can actually get all that documentation back without as much of a difficulty. I don't know how you'd go about doing that, but I think the future does really hold some interesting use cases for proof of person. And I think that this is one of those technologies that will expand for use cases outside of the cryptosphere. And I think creating like an unconditional method of doing so to verify yourself as a person it can prevent a lot of

obviously bureaucracy along the way but it'll also prevent like in any given system distribution, it'll prevent governments or any any given organization from kind of picking and choosing who who they want to give any given form of welfare to right so we could have like really cool things like public commons and things like this to where you have you have a stake in something just for being a human being which i find very interesting um do i have any other topics on here do i have i'm i'm kind of concerned i always thought well i should have known this because i've seen your other podcast but kind of always dreamed of a time when you would actually be drinking tea i have an empty

tea cup here okay i um are you just yes oh go ahead uh i brushed my teeth like two minutes before the podcast started so oh mental hygiene hygiene is more important than my dreams. Well, maybe next time. I've got this empty bottle of iced coffee as well. Cool. Iced coffee is a very serious problem in Australia. Lots of people drink it. It's not very good for you

and Farmers Union is shit fight me anyone from Australia who likes Farmers Union you're wrong it's terrible anyway I'm not going to get too much into a Farmers Union argument we should do a taste test in the future and I'll try them both and I'll tell you the

unbiased opinion dare is the best iced coffee you will find. Icebreak's okay, I guess. Is iced coffee even... I know that iced coffee is super popular in Australia. Is it just as easy to get in the US or is it just like maybe you'll find some iced coffee somewhere? No, I think it totally is like this is coming a bit from an

outsider's perspective i'm not much of a coffee drinker i'll drink it if it's offered to me but i won't go out of my way to get it but my girlfriend is a huge fan of coffee and i think iced coffee is is readily available okay at any given time i know people that like live off of that because yeah you go to a supermarket here and like one big like section of the fridge is just gonna be like seven or eight different brands of iced coffee with all of their different flavors uh yeah i think that's a bit more impressive than the u.s i think that's uh pretty extreme yeah it's uh it's sort of a joke that every single uh every single person working on like a uh a construction site has like a two liter thing of iced coffee and that's all they drink all day and it's not just it's not just a stereotype you

will go to any construction site and that is what you will see do you know if the coffee is farmed in australia or is it from other parts of the world um i would assume the coffee is from other parts but we have a very big dairy industry here so the milk is uh because farmers union obviously it's Farmers Union. That's what it's actually from. Yeah, that's super interesting. Fun coffee fact for you. The only coffee grown in the U.S. is actually in Hawaii. That would be interesting. Yeah, I would never have guessed it'd be Hawaii.

Most people wouldn't expect that right like with uh the large agricultural space in the in the u.s only place you can actually go find u.s grown coffee is in hawaii okay more you know we didn't talk too much about what was the other one you mentioned Bizarre Network yeah Bizarre Network whatever it was called

or Bizarre Foundation yeah you totally got it right so that's another one I'm not too familiar with the way I see that set up I can't really speak much on that one uh i do want to talk about like the overall space like with all the so we talked about a few projects right like good dollar pi network uh we just mentioned bizarre um circles there's there's quite a few um so it's interesting to see like how they're

all trying to solve a similar issue or the same issue they're all coming from like a different way of doing it so that's really unique to see in the crypto space when like different projects are trying to solve a problem but they're all doing it in a different way and kind of seeing which one works. It's cool to see. I think that also kind of helps the fact that it's not like the early days of crypto

where you had proof of work and that's all that existed. Now you have all of these different, you have all of these legacy projects that exist that have all tried these different things. So now a lot of the newer projects coming along be like, okay, what have they done? What can we take from their experience and maybe make something better

rather than trying to, like, obviously they're going to try to explore new sorts of ideas, but they don't have to be like, we have no idea what to start from we can at least have some higher level of baseline than the earlier projects had. Yeah I totally agree with you a lot of these projects other projects in the crypto space they're coming from like they had their predecessor they had like something to go off of this is a totally not only a new idea of like UBI the new total totally new process of implementing

it so they're trying to like oh people this new idea and show them a solution to forming that idea so it's it's it's cool because these projects really just hit the ground running and they're trying different ways of doing it, but we'll see who succeeds. Yeah, we're still in the super, super early days of things like Good Dollars. You said it came out in September with already 20,000 users. One good example of how quickly a crypto project can grow

is it actually just went up, I think just as we started recording this, I released my podcast I did with Brendan Brewer. And towards the end of that, we looked at how much library had grown since the start of the year. And apparently the average channel size when I joined, or I think average for like top 100 or something was i think 100 subscribers maybe like if you had above 50 i think you'd be in the top 100

and now i'm at 15000 on library. Yeah. So the growth in library is like absolutely astonishing. I totally agree. I'm actually going to go watch that podcast after this, because I haven't seen it yet. Yeah. That's something I'm very interested in, like the growth of decentralized platforms,

because as most people know, there's always a network effect with any social media platform somebody i really like talking to about this stuff is scott cunningham i don't know if you've heard of him i brought him on the podcast before i should have known that i obviously haven't seen every podcast now i got two podcasts to go back and watch um so yeah scott like he he's obviously on like every single crypto social platform ever like this guy's impressive right so um it's cool to see the network effect though because like as you know when you start on these new social platforms it really takes time to like get the ball rolling right

and i think we're starting to see that increase in speed and growth with with library as recently as like past few months so it's really interesting to see uh but i'd love to hear your thoughts on on the whole library tv versus odyssey what are your thoughts on that actually the last topic i had on my list um because i did want to see what you thought about odyssey as well personally i i like i was just gonna say i promise we're not sharing the show notes no we just happen to happen to go that direction um yeah that's i really should just send the show notes to whoever the guest is anyway just to make it easy we've done well

telepathy I think what's going to happen down the line is Library TV is probably going to shift more towards me being like a development platform so this is where they're going to test out new features and then roll them out

to Odyssey because I think the Odyssey is something that library is desperately desperately needed it's that thing where you have the friendlier entry point and it's the thing where they can actually bring in advertisers because I've said this for a long time about library that you once the rewards pool ends there's no reason to use library anymore like if i have no rewards pool why don't i use bit shoot or why don't i use peer tube or why don't you use anything else the rewards pool is the reason why library is as big as it is and that's something that needs to be addressed. And Odyssey provides that opportunity to, if they need to,

this is something a lot of people are not going to like. If they need to, there's going to be content that needs to be blocked on Odyssey. Like maybe the conspiracy content has to get blocked to bring in advertisers. Maybe other content needs to get blocked because there's a lot of advertisers who don't want anything to do with that. Even though, for example,

I don't think gun content... Gun content is one that doesn't make any sense. YouTube's just bad at dealing with ad contracts because I can guarantee that, like, Colt or Remington will be perfectly happy advertising on gun content. YouTube just doesn't want to make those contracts. But if they have to, there might be certain types of content

that does have to get filtered be certain types of content that does have to get filtered out of the odyssey app but then that can still exist on the desktop app and hopefully library tv doesn't just become a dev platform but i think it may i i don't have any inside information about that but i that's how i feel it's gonna go i totally agree with you on the things you just mentioned specifically a lot you know library tv being like a dev platform I agree with that I can't speak too much on that because I'm not really uh too technical or a developer but I I definitely see it as that first stepping stone like even as a content creator myself like I see it becoming you, for the people that want to be a little bit more

technical and a little bit more in depth with things, that provides a platform to do so, right? Then, also, I totally, totally agree with what you said on the advertising, right? Or just a an incentive structure. Something I think libraries really, especially in the past few months, they've noticed, hey, we have to get this incentive structure down and we got to get it done like now. We got to implement it because can't do it when we run out of funding. You got to do it now. So it's interesting to see like, you know, they've made a few posts already talking about the different reward structures that they're considering, and they recently implemented a new one. So as a creator, you have to have that incentive to continue creating content. And

some people might say, Oh, well, you know, people will still oh well you know people will still yeah there there will still be creators to be competitive in the space as a platform there needs to be an incentive yeah because you're it would be different if it was still 2006 and no one was getting paid on youtube but it's that's not the time we're in now There are people who are running multi-million dollar businesses making videos on YouTube. You can't just say, we're just not going to pay you. Like, okay, well,

I'm just not going to use your platform then. Yeah, and it's like, you know, that was such a differentiator for somebody like me who doesn't have a significant following on YouTube. I could literally step from the YouTube realm into the library realm and I could literally from day one making revenue on library which is awesome that's so cool that's that's a great thing that's cool for all content creators in general that they

don't have to rely on this centralized source but it's cool for uh all content creators in general that they don't have to rely on this centralized source but um it's cool specifically for smaller content creators don't have to go through this like rite of passage to start making uh money so uh but they they really have to get that that structure down as far as distributing rewards. Yeah, the system that it's in right now, I think I'm making like 0.76 per creator tip or something like that. It's... It was good that day

it broke and went up to like 7. That was nice. They shut the rewards off very quickly after that happened. It's like a fire hose of rewards coming out and they're like, oh no no but even at the state there's that right now i because they've said they want to kind of match youtube or be a little bit above youtube um it's still a little bit too high like a double double too high um but

the reason why it still it seems like it's good right now is because the views you get on library are still considerably lower. On my regular videos, I get about 1,500 on YouTube and about 200 to 300 over on library. So the views are considerably less. So they're handing out far less.

But if, say, suddenly library did start getting those same level of view counts it would be a very different story and hopefully they sort out more long-term stuff by then but we get the growth is getting faster so because i've been noticing big big creators talking about coming over to the library. And I'll give them props. Like, while they do need to solve certain things like features for creators and this whole content reward system, I will give them props on the user side of things. Or the viewer, I should say.

Yes. The viewer side of things, they've really been doing well. Since they brought in julian there has been a lot of positive changes on that side yeah yeah and it's like seeing more and more people coming to the platform in general whether it's odyssey or library or the desktop app um we're seeing like this growth of users that they don't even know that it's a blockchain project. They're just there to watch videos and either, you know, learn or be entertained or whatever

it may be. They don't, they're not even concerned with the blockchain aspect of it, which is great. Like that's how it should be. That's how a project gets adoption. Yes. The user can come in, like I was mentioning earlier with GoodDollar, when a user can come in

and just feel comfortable with the application and use it and not be concerned with the technical aspects. Well, you don't need to be worried about the crypto people join. The crypto people are going to join any crypto platform. And that's what it was like when I joined Library. Library was only just starting to branch out into the Linux sphere.

So my people were starting to join. So it made sense for me to go over. But that's about as far as it went at that point. Because it was too crypto-y. Odyssey's gone a bit too far in the other direction by getting rid of supports but they're bringing them back in a different form yeah i i mean i've seen that change even in the short time relatively short time i've been a part of library uh i'd say since late last year over the past year let's say i remember when i first joined a library

our first discovered library in like november of last year um i just went on there and i just saw a whole which for me was great crypto right but i thought anybody that comes here from youtube is going to be like oh this is a crypto youtube that's what they're going to think sorry that was all the content is crypto it was crypto and conspiracy yeah no and conspiracy that's what it was it was like a nice sandwich of the two and so for an outsider that's used to going to youtube just to watch like any given entertaining content you go to to library and they were just like what is this and i i saw firsthand experience of like friends that i've recommended to library and they're like oh i just went on there and saw a bunch of conspiracy content like odyssey and like you said since they brought on julian to the team like i've seen a major change uh as far as like user adoption

and just opening up to people like the broad broader public yeah i've noticed recently a lot of the um like the meme channels starting to join library now which is going to start bringing people over and a lot of gaming channels starting to join as well like actually big gaming channels and uh some twitch people i know about like epos vox is here now which is a pretty big uh pretty big gain um but i've been noticing a lot of that we've been expanding out into these larger spheres i i think i said this to uh to brendan the point where library needs to be ready is when, like, the Reddit commentary channels start to join. Because those channels have millions of subscribers. And if they start talking about it,

like, the growth is going to go from this to, like, this. Yeah. Yeah. They got to be ready. They have to be ready. They definitely do. It'll be interesting to see. I mean, I've already seen crazy growth over the past year, like I've said, for people just checking out the platform and being interested, whether it was for crypto or not. It's really cool to see the adoption and more people coming. But yeah, I hope they're ready because one of these days is just going to be like a wave, an influx of users, which if they haven't already seen that.

Yeah. I hope they're ready. I'm not super hopeful, but I hope. I hope that I'm hoping. Me too. I try to be a realist, like I said, but I am hopeful. I think it's a great community. I don't think I would have ever experienced something like this on YouTube

or it just wouldn't have been as common. It could have happened, but it's a great community. And I've seen the growth like over the past year of like new members coming in and actually like having some kind of community discussion that's not just like spam YouTube comments. There are fair share of spam library comments, don't get me wrong,

but it is cool to see like the internet community here yeah that is one of the interesting things about libraries because there's a it's a bit like there's a lot of people here but it's still very very small like I if I see people commenting around I

recognize the same names in a lot of places because you have a lot of active people when they're active people go between different channels. It's like you start recognizing faces. Absolutely. Yeah. And you start like kind of developing friendships and relationships with people in the community,

which is with the huge, that's like a benefit that library has. And I think they should use it to their advantage the whole community aspect so the other nice thing about that is that even though there are some really big channels on library the ones that started on library seem to be very very much more down to earth because most of these people who grew just grew out of nowhere like for example crypto hustle when i brought him on at the time i think his channel size like four or five times mine and if i tried to do that on youtube most people probably wouldn't give you the time of day yeah absolutely absolutely oh it's an interesting aspect of the community like just the the conversations and relationships you can have

with people you know maybe that'll change in the future who knows maybe as like the population i mean that's a given right more people and it's less uh communal but as of right now it's like it's a great place to be as a content content creator yeah this does feel a lot like because i joined youtube not on the channel i'm on right now, but I joined YouTube on one of my earlier accounts. 2006, I reckon? 2007? So I've been there since the start. And yeah, it does, there's definitely a lot more of the communal aspect there where, hey, the biggest channel, okay, the biggest channel okay the biggest channel is the library

channel i don't count that one the biggest channel really is like 50 000 subs which i guess would be more like 2009 2010 youtube but it's way smaller than it is now like for example i don't even know how like pewdiepie and how much like t-series and stuff has now like multiple mil like 100 million i don't know too many like that that's an unimaginable number but on library like yeah it's it's just a nice small thing i i like it being small but i do want to see it grow obviously yeah obviously as a as a viewer i one thing i love about library right is that i can literally follow channels and i can see their content and know that i'm gonna see their content in my feed that is my favorite thing my favorite thing because i've subscribed to people on youtube and i'm like wow i really like this channel and then i never see their content again even though they're posting

this is one thing that's annoying me about Odyssey or annoying me about the notification system don't give me notifications when someone uploads I can see the uploads your sub box works right here like I'm like oh I have all these notifications I scroll through it it's like 20 people uploaded the video like I can I just disable it? You can disable the email notifications about it, but you can't disable the in-app notifications.

You just get, like, if 20 of the people, channels you're following in a day, you just get, like, oh, wow, a bunch of people, like, commented on my videos, and then you click the notification. It's just, like, all these people that uploaded that uploaded yeah i'm looking at it right now so we have a video from hex dsl a comment from scammer revolts hey look a comment uh an upload from the quartering from

lewis rossman from the quartering from a cad daily uh whale bot comment okay there's a comment there the quartering the quartering the quartering the quartering like I don't I don't need to see Uploads, especially when there's some people I watch who upload like six or seven videos in a day Yeah, it's insane yeah, it's it's like you follow a few of those people and like your notifications just gets so cluttered so B library will see this and I'll make an issue about it on the github if there isn't already one Absolutely library will see this and uh i'll make an issue about it on the github if there isn't already one absolutely cool i mean i guess we can't complain too much because we finally got notifications well yeah that's that's a good thing notifications are here i've waited an entire year for these and before the before the videos were there it was amazing yeah yeah absolutely um i mean with anything like it'll it'll be improved over time um

i guess that's the benefit of it being a centralized system right they can make tweaks but um i think just just feedback and things from content creators over time, they'll make improvements. I've seen it improve a lot. I got to give them credit. Over the past year, I've seen quite a few improvements and they can just keep up at this pace and keep accounting for certain issues.

I'm very hopeful. I'm very excited to see what the roadmap for 2021 is going to be. Me too. Because I went over the 2020 roadmap with Brendan and they actually hit most of the things I think the only thing that they haven't hit was like something to do with advertising and the

iOS app the iOS app I was going to say but yeah fine with that I think they makes some progress on it but we don't have a working iOS app at this point yeah um I mean just having the the desktop app I really enjoy using that what do you prefer the desktop app or the uh website i use desktop just because it's easier for me to upload yeah as a as a content creator it's it's much easier to use and upload um as a viewer i think i think odyssey is probably gonna be uh what a lot of people want to see well the apps are very

important and they are redoing the library TV app to be like an Odyssey app. But the mobile apps are incredibly important because that's where most people are watching videos now. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there's a lot of people watching videos on mobile. And so mobile app is going to be, if and when it gets released, I think it'll be another huge growth spurt for libraries. So I'm excited to see that. But I don't expect it to affect the coin price though the coin prices yeah it's a stable coin right yeah yeah we'll go with that it's a stable coin now um one day crypto lambo one day yeah well i gotta ask you uh are you involved in any other

centralized video platforms besides library uh i i upload to others i don't get involved in the community i use um i have everything synced over to BitTube just because it, I literally just give them my YouTube URL. It just syncs over. Um, and BitChute claims they're going to eventually decentralize one day, but what, maybe? No, they're not. They're having a lot of struggles right now. They're, yeah. Um, their video uploader hasn't been working properly for

the past couple of weeks and there's been issues with funding and some other stuff i i don't because uh bit shoot is completely uh community funded but yeah besides that no no i'm not uploading anything right now the other stuff i'm using is centralized i sync everything over to um facebook and dailymotion because i there's a service i use called um youtube video sync or something i remember to sync to multiple platforms yeah i just pay like 60 or 70 a year and it just uploads them you're like you see daily motion on there you're like why not i'm paying for it might as well i think i could upload to vimeo as well but i don't

have a vimeo you better make one i'm better gotta gotta expand out as much as possible now i think i have like zero no i have one follower on facebook i don't use anything else besides syncing the videos i mean that's the whole thing i was mentioning earlier like with the whole network effect it's like i'm not on i'm on other social media platforms like twitter right recently i've been doing some tweets and stuff but primarily i only post content to library so it's a little bit difficult for me as a content creator to bring people into like a new platform yeah so as library grows it's it's beneficial yeah that's why i recommend people staying on youtube for now because as i mentioned earlier with good dollar and make them the marketplace bringing people over to this new

platform you can't really do if they don't know about it exactly exactly if they've never heard of it and it's like difficult to move over there not gonna do it it's just like it's not simple enough so i totally agree with you on that one i do understand why people want to make channels and start online really if you're a new creator library is a great place to start yeah like yeah you're gonna get paid from the start you're probably gonna grow quicker in most cases definitely okay i have a new so uh that's congrats do you use do you use odys Odyssey now to interact? Do you still use the desktop app? There we go.

I have notifications on the desktop app now, so I mainly use the desktop app. I use Odyssey mainly to get links to videos, which I should update my... Here's something fun. I actually have a script that converts between the different formats of library links, so I should just my... Here's something fun. I actually have a script that converts between the different formats of library links. So I should just add the Odyssey version into that.

Should. Mainly I just use Odyssey for when I needed demonstrations and show someone what library is, I'll show Odyssey. Or if I pull it up during a podcast, for example, I show Odyssey then. Mainly though,, if I pull it up during a podcast, for example, I show Odyssey then.

Mainly, though, I was using it for notifications so they weren't in the desktop app. Now that they are, I use that. You said you get more views on YouTube than library, right? Yeah, considerably. Do you see more engagement on YouTube or library? Right now, I see more engagement on YouTube. But when comments

first improved, I would say it was actually fairly similar between the two. It's slowed down a bit now. I'm not really sure why. But for a while there, I was getting lots of comments on library.

Yeah, definitely. It's, I was getting lots of comments on Library. Yeah, definitely. It's going to be cool to see, like, really, really excited to see, like, some of these more mainstream content creators coming from YouTube, like, bringing people that just never would have imagined using Library. Now, like, we're going to see these links or these options to go try out another platform and they might just give it a shot. So that'll be cool.

All right, guys. I think that's them telling me... Yeah, one example I saw recently was... I don't know if you know who he is. Computing Forever. He's mainly a politics channel now. He recently joined Library. He's got close to 500k subscribers on YouTube.

So seeing bigger creators like that joining is crazy. As I said, EposVox earlier, he joined a while back. And yeah, because just having those people do a video and mention that library exists sort of drives a lot of traffic to the platform. And I think that's secretly like one of the biggest benefits to bringing people from YouTube to library. Having these creators actually link them to people from YouTube to library. Having these creators actually link them to library from YouTube is a huge, huge benefit for library.

Oh, okay. I just looked at one of the top comments on this video and it's from another channel that has 300,000 subscribers. And he's like, Odyssey actually looks good. So maybe that person will then join it and that's the other thing you get when these big creators talk about a platform like this it's very likely that a lot of other big creators are following them as well i i think it's going to be also like super interesting to see like dynamic of some of

these creators coming to to library or odyssey the whole library platform um and like start interacting with the blockchain like with the whole idea of like library credits it's going to be so cool to see like big time creators interacting library credits and staking and things like this well we already had for a long time now um ev blogblog has been a big proponent of library. I don't know if you know who he is. Yeah. I do, yep. Anyone who doesn't, he's a...

He runs an electronics channel in Sydney. Quick side note, I think he lives in Austin, Texas, where I'm at right now. EEVblog. Shout out to him. Is that wrong? No, that's a different person. That's wrong.

EEVblog lives in Sydney. Okay, I totally have seen ev vlog so i will because i've he's one of the first people i saw on library you know who i think i'm thinking of chris titus titus tech yes you are is that right yes you are i saw the tweet you made. But I have seen EEVblog. Yes. I have seen EEVblog. Yeah, no, EEVblog's an electronics channel that operates in Sydney,

and he's been a big proponent of library for a while now. But he's also on, like, every other platform as well. He's one of those people who just, if it exists and someone tells him about it, he will be there. He's there. Him and Scott would be would be like best friends well yeah sticks hex and hammer is also just as bad with that on every platform yes like you can have 10 users he'll probably be there oh yeah why not i mean for some, they see it as why not, right? Yeah.

I just, I get cluttered. Like, my mind gets cluttered when I'm on multiple platforms. No, that's fair. It's very, that's one of the things that is nice about Library, though. The fact that if you just upload to YouTube, you can just upload to library without thinking about it yeah yeah no problem like with the whole sync process that's like one of the biggest benefits for some youtube creators they could easily sync their channel yeah because i get that some people are very busy and can't really find the time to actually go and upload to different different platforms. But if you can make that process as easy as possible,

hey, it might encourage some more people to try it out. Library's going to take this and turn it into a library marketing commercial. You just watch. It'll be like, take snippets of all the good things we've said. It'll be like, wow, library's an awesome platform check it out hey if they want to do that they have my email they can hit me up why not

I'm almost out of water was that water or iced coffee no it's really hot today it's the middle of summer right now I guess it's the start of summer whatever um it's let's find out the exact temperature i'm gonna say it's probably like 32 degrees celsius maybe it sorry it's 34 let's put that into freedom units

34 c 34 c 2 f that is 34 C2F. That is... 92. 92? I guessed. Oh, okay. Wow, that was really close. 93. Oh, sweet.

Yeah, 93. I think it was 60 in Freedom Units. It was 68 here today so 68 to cool down oh that's nice yeah um it's been pretty cold here lately because winter just decided not to end uh but it's finally starting to warm up we're finally getting to how it should be over Australian Christmas. Gotta get those 40 degree days of Christmas. Why not?

Did it ever snow anywhere in Australia? Actually? Yes. Um, during winter, there's a couple of, um, like there's actually a couple of ski resorts,

like a couple of mountains that are high enough where it actually snows. I did not know that. That is super cool. Most people don't. Yeah, it's... Let's see if we can find one. What's going to come up if I search for Australia ski resort? Perisher ski resort.

That is located in... Monaro. Where is Monaro? I should know that. That is located in New South Wales. No, not the car, Monaro. Yeah, New South Wales it snows. And also I think it might snow a bit in victoria as well

but my state no it doesn't because my state's a bit closer to the desert side oh said you're where are you in australia i'm in south australia okay do you ever go surfing on the coast or no? I can barely swim. Well, guess what? I have never been to Australia. I really want to visit. So, everything opens back up. Cutting out.

Froze. Okay, you're back. All right. Everything opens back up. Gotta go surfing. Okay. Gotta make that promise opens back up. Gotta go surfing. Okay. Gotta make that promise. Well, I can go surfing now.

My state's basically open back up. Have you, have you been before? No, no, I haven't. Let's go. It'll be your first time.

Come to Australia for the first time and then you'll surf for the first time. That's going gonna end very badly i guarantee probably so oh yeah um i'll be that weird dude who wears a life jacket on his surfboard that's fine totally cool have your i your uh cold brew iced coffee yep there you go like a two liter and be chugging it use the two liters as like floaties yeah you'll be wired on coffee have your little floaties ready to go sadly the more i drink the uh the more i sink so that's a problem that's pretty good rhyme.

That sounds like it could be a song. That's the extent of my rhyming ability. It's pretty impressive. Pretty impressive. Definitely, yep. Some basic, I'll just open up the usothorus. Yep, those words are similar. Yeah, that'll work.

yep those words are similar yeah that'll work yeah I think that it's been about two and a half hours now I think that's probably a good place to end it because we went over most of what I want to talk about on UBI unless there's anything else you wanted to say about it that we didn't cover oh I mean I think we had a

good overview of like, you know, what UBI is with governments and then crypto UBI and the different projects in the space right now. Yeah, if anybody's watching that's interested in UBI, obviously you can just Google it and find more about it.

And it's an interesting concept. And there's obviously been or not obviously but there has been a lot of thought leaders throughout history uh that have supported an idea like like ubi and now with the advancement of technology and blockchain systems it would be uh really cool to be able to implement that yeah for sure um okay well usually how i end off the podcast is i asked the guests to give me a channel they've been watching recently they want to just give some attention to just shout out to anyone and i'll bring them up on the screen oh man you know you know i was gonna shout out scottsy business because i didn't know he had been on the podcast

before hey we can bring up so. He's got a great channel. I know. Yeah, give him another shot, man. That guy deserves two shout-outs. Let's see if we can find his channel. It's just Scottsy Business, isn't it? Yeah. Scottsy Business.

Here we go, yeah. Jeez, he's 25,000 on light blue now wow yeah he mainly does like investing videos talking about like how to invest talking about his crypto portfolio he did one that annoyed a lot of people where he talked about um some potential scammy projects the comments of that were full of supporters of one of the projects and like no this is not a scam that's when you know i mean that's great content right um yeah he also does a lot of stuff on like blockchain social media platforms so yeah uh that's cool to see all the different social media platforms that he's on i could never handle that but uh he he has a lot of interesting concept

uh content so i thought i'd give him a shout out he also has his own podcast where uh he it's it's much more structured than i do mine's just sort of like hanging out really um yeah yeah but yeah i recommend going and checking out some of those because he's had some really interesting guests on, uh, really interesting guests on in the past. Yeah, definitely. He's had, he's had a lot of cool guests. He's talked to like people that are in charge of these social media platforms.

So talk to members of the team. Um, and his content's very interesting. He's actually, uh, the reason I wanted to give him a shout out is because he is the person on youtube when i was watching youtube that i actually got me over here onto the library platform so i definitely think he deserves that shout out yeah that's fair um as for me

hmm who am i gonna who am i gonna mention'm going to say... Since I brought him... Talking about who I brought on the podcast. Go check out The Digital Life. He does... I'll send you the link to his channel. The Digital Life? The Digital Life. Where did it open?

Just check it out. It's open here. Basically, he does videos about how to become an IT professional. So that's his main focus. He's done videos talking about working in IT support, how to set up some of the things you're actually going to need to know to actually be an IT professional. So anyone who thinks that sounds kind of interesting,

I recommend checking it out. I brought him on the podcast very recently, and I think that was a really fun episode. So if you want to see more from him, uh, that also works as well. And he is, he's the sort of person who also likes to very,

very heavily experiment with the sort of content he makes as well. Uh, awesome. Yeah. So go check him out. And he's only been doing it for seven months yeah i respect people like that that like try to change up their content and try different things so uh i'm interested to check his channel out cool so uh where can people find you

oh so i will say i'm not not gonna promote any social media of mine because I'm actually gonna make an upcoming video soon if you're interested of why I'm not on the other social media platforms. Basically on library I have Trav Crypto which is kind of like me talking about blockchain and cryptocurrencies and things like this so you can find me at Trav Crypto, which is kind of like me talking about blockchain and cryptocurrencies and things like this. So you can find me at Trav Crypto. And then I have another channel that I do with my girlfriend where we create travel vlogs and videos of us just traveling and we do fun stuff. So that's called Trav Travels.

The Z. I remember the Z Trab Travels with an S was taken on YouTube that was heartbreaking cool yeah that's it awesome

before we end it off I would like to say thank you to my supporters so a special thank you to Chris, Yoakim, Donald, Kobinyan, Andrew, Craig, Nathan, Montazar, Chikabento, Joseph, Piddity, Rode, Tony, Brennan, John, Marek, Mikael, Nate, Agnefat, Poe, Tee, and Zilva. If you want to go support them, yeah, there's 21 people on that list now.

It's pretty crazy. And a couple of those people donate stupid amounts of money. Yoakim, for example, he gives me $64 a month. Why? I've asked him that. I've spoken to him about it before. He's given me his reason.

I don't accept his reason. It doesn't make any sense. But yeah, that's awesome. So all these people are awesome. Pretty cool. If you want to go find my work, then my main channel is available on library, odyssey, bitchute

things like that, this podcast is available as an audio release as well as the video release, the audio release literally any way you can find podcasts you'll find it and the video releases on library and youtube yeah besides that I think that's pretty much everything

I'll give you the closing word. What do you want to say? Um, I guess, thanks so much for having me on the show. And, uh, yeah, I think as with any concept that you come across, uh, it's always worthwhile to, even if it's a concept you've never heard of check it out do your own research um see if it's something that you could support and get behind and you never know you might be interested so always be willing to check out new stuff i would say that yeah it's completely fair yeah anyone who is interested in um in good dollar uh i'll leave links to the projects we talked about today as well so anyone who wants to check them out um there'll be links down there and links to the good dollar marketplace as well

so yeah um go check it out see if you like it thanks