Tech Over Tea - #53 Linux, Code And Talking Trash - feat Gavin Freeborn

Starting point is 00:00:00 Welcome to episode 53 of Teppity, I'm as always your host Brodie Robertson, and today, uh, I don't know how to really introduce you, you do just random Linux-y videos, you do mainly like trough and latex stuff it seems to be, I just realised I'm on the wrong scene. Uh, anyway, welcome to the show Gavin. Alright, yeah, I don't really know how to describe what I do either honestly. Oh, I'll bring your chat either honestly actually that'll make it easier i don't know if it'll help too much well your latest video was my girlfriend's slow run zim tutor i watched like three minutes of that and it was very painful

Starting point is 00:00:37 it uh yeah honestly that's all i found out pretty quickly that that's all it takes to bump up your uh-through levels. It's just put a girl in your thumbnail and there you go. Clicks on clicks on clicks. Your channel is actually doing surprisingly well. For a channel with 947 subs right now, you actually get a lot of views on your content. Yeah, I get a decent amount of views per video. I just don't put out enough

Starting point is 00:01:05 videos i don't know maybe that's the strategy maybe i should upload less the niche content also gets like no barely any views like the occasionally i'll get like some trough or groth videos that do like decent but most of them get like 300 views. Well, yeah, most of the people who are looking for trough content are probably people who know way more trough than you do. Yeah, exactly. Honestly, most people looking for it are like more confused on what they're looking for. A lot of people are like, how does this compare to Markdown? I'm like, well, they're not really the same thing.

Starting point is 00:01:40 You've also done stuff on some other things as well. You've done some general program stuff. Like, oh, here's a thing on ImageMagick. Here's a thing on S-Feed. But yeah, it seems like your main stuff is the LaTeX and Trof and Grof stuff. I don't care about the difference. I know HumCom is in your content as well. And I know the second I say

Starting point is 00:02:06 this he's gonna be here even though he doesn't watch the podcast I was like just thinking that I was like that's like the one thing that sucks about making content about this is that like people either like have no idea anything about it or like they're like Hum they're just like well any issue

Starting point is 00:02:21 any mistake you make he will call you out on it that's also partly why it takes so long to upload any content for context yeah we're kind of people who don't hang out in my discord hum is one of my mods and he is basically just imagine the most stereotypical linux user who will correct you on everything c is the only decent language that exists actually i think the go he likes go as well which is i don't know why um but if you like call things by the slightly wrong term even though it really doesn't matter he'll be on your case about it fun guy very fun guy it's yeah at least it's usually not too bad it's better than like i

Starting point is 00:03:08 don't know i feel like especially in like this sort of a community it's like filled with like not to criticize the community because that's literally who's watching this video but uh i feel like a lot of people are like very close-minded about things and like you'll make a video that mentions like i don't know one thing that everybody loves to hit on is like rust like you'll mention like rust in a video and just just bam, everybody's coming at you with like hot, not hot takes on Rust, but they're all the same take. They're all one guy's take, and everyone's saying the same thing. Well, Rust is a very, it's a very weird one, because there's this group of people who absolutely adore Rust,

Starting point is 00:03:40 and think the thing should just be rewritten in Rust for no reason whatsoever. Rust and think the thing should just be rewritten in Rust for no reason whatsoever. I think if you look up Rewrite it in Rust, you'll find big compilations of people just creating issues on GitHub being like, hey, this program would be better if it was rewritten in Rust.

Starting point is 00:03:56 If you want a performance increase, rewrite it in Rust. And the devs are like, no. Not happening. But then you have the other camp of people who just absolutely anything that's written in rust even if it's not like a rewrite of an application it's just someone happens to like the language nope not allowed rust is a bad language you should be using whatever insert my favorite language here yeah i i also like the thing that's the thing that i

Starting point is 00:04:23 always find funny is that like a lot of the people that have these like this this one take on like languages like rust or on python or something like that are never programmers almost always they're like just they're just guys who like want to criticize something because especially like in this sort of in like our sort of community like a lot of people are like against change there's like two ways to approach change there's like the people who see change and sorry my camera's like zooming in and out oh yeah there's people who like yeah there's people who like the autofocus is terrible there's people who like see change and then are just like immediately against it in the community because they're like it's something new i don't like it uh which like some will argue that's not

Starting point is 00:05:03 what happens but it kind of is and then there's the other side of people who like don't know too much about the like the older tools but something new is like more exciting and then they get into it and then they learn it and then they promote it as the best thing ever and then there's like there's the people that are like most people are that don't say anything about it are like just somewhere out there in the middle don't care about it think it's an okay language or something like that but then the other half it's like it's either people who are new to it and think it's a cool new thing and they want to learn it and then there's the other half which uh it's funny because that's exactly how to make two people clash well you're never gonna like please

Starting point is 00:05:39 all people so i've honestly just stopped caring at this point i'll i'll just say like as long as not something horrendously dumb like lun duke when he said that privacy on the internet is a bad thing um if it's not a really dumb take like that i genuinely don't care yeah yeah i love that he killed his channel over doing that yeah well i guess now he's just like on library or at least he's like saying that he's on library every single day on YouTube. I think pretty much all he uses the YouTube channel for now is funneling people over to library, which I that's fair. I can accept that. Um, I do like library. It's a really good platform. Yeah. And like, you know, it's pretty, it's especially nice for like, at least a channel like mine that like, obviously can't get monetized yet, but like, i can still at least make some money off of it especially when like i feel like you put a lot

Starting point is 00:06:28 of time into videos and if you're not like uploading at a regular pace it's super hard to like get few time yeah which is like one of the really getting the subscribers is like probably the easiest part of getting monetized the hardest part is like actually getting people to watch enough of your content yeah i kind of got lucky with my channel but sorry go ahead i'll say i got really lucky with my channel because when i got that uh that bump from luke that also basically bumped me up to the view time as well yeah yeah it's like that's pretty nice but i feel like at the same time it's like you also can't you fit the perfect niche of what people wanted at the time which is perfect well yeah it's still even right now there's not really that many people just doing just random looks software i think the only person i can really think of doing it well is um is dt

Starting point is 00:07:18 but dt also does a lot of the you know more ranty stuff as well um but people sort of wanted what luke was doing in the past and then he doesn't want to do that because he hates doing linux videos yeah yeah yeah for sure i feel like i feel like it works out well it's a win-win situation and like also it's like all he has to do is just do reactions i've sort of come into my own with my content now making my own sort of style rather than just you know copying what other people have done but the early the early stuff on my channel was definitely like that for sure no for sure i was like pretty much the same sort of same sort of situation like when i first started

Starting point is 00:07:59 making content the only reason i made a channel was because like i i like for some reason i just like saw especially i like like kind of knew about groff before from uh i can't remember what it was it's just like some random post on reddit i think or something like that yeah and then uh luke smith did his video and i was like oh that's sweet and then i needed to rewrite my resume and i was like oh why not just write it in this and then I went down a rabbit hole of spending way too much time learning about this stuff and I was like you know what I should probably show this to someone else and then uh Brian Jenks who you've had on the podcast like uh like a few times he was I was like telling him like oh you should look into this he was like you could just make a

Starting point is 00:08:38 video on it yourself too if you wanted and I was like oh yeah I guess I could uh and then after that I was like I don't know what to do now like in my first video i like covered like a bunch of stuff it's a terrible video now even though it's like one of my most popular ones but yeah that's always a sad thing when that happens um because they're like i covered so much but i like had like no cuts in it it's like a half hour long video and it could have been like probably 15 minutes but uh also the other one is your presentations also uh yeah this is gross i'm going to tell you about groff today yeah i also like i had like such a silly way of looking i was like oh i'll just i also just i asked does anyone want this and a bunch of people were like like i posted on reddit like does somebody want a series on this? And people were like, sure.

Starting point is 00:09:25 And I was like, all right, sure. There's probably like 200 people that want to see this, but might as well make it. And then I was like, I don't know what to do now. And I pretty much just did like, well, not Luke Smith-like content, but like my thumbnails were like pretty, like some of them were like pretty Luke Smith-like. I think Brian did way worse than you did.

Starting point is 00:09:44 You still had like a slightly different thing going on, but Brian's early stuff was, it was just Luke's thumbnails, basically. Yeah. No, it's pretty, it's always like, I feel like it's like just super tempting. Like there's also like, no offense to mental overflow, but like his thumbnails are pretty much still that almost,

Starting point is 00:10:04 which is like you know i feel like it like works i feel like mental oh my god i do this because people always ask me like what's your view on mental outline i'm like mental overflow because i think a stack overflow for some reason uh it's just just keyed into my mind every time i want to look something up mental overflow but uh but yeah um i was gonna say oh i forgot um but yeah when i first started i pretty much just like went with whatever it seemed would work and then actually i was like honestly these thumbnails the thumbnails that i made like i feel like we're like some of them were like super generic and then i remember like i saw like a bunch of things saying like putting your faces on

Starting point is 00:10:47 thumbnails helps yeah i did i'm like i heard that as well i don't know if that actually does it but that's what everyone does now so yeah i had one video that like wasn't getting a lot of clicks and i just like threw my face onto the thumbnail and it just like immediately doubled i was like oh man which like to be fair like doubling clicks on doubling views on like a uh on like a video that's like got 200 people watching it's pretty uh pretty minimal that doesn't take much effort well more than uh what what is the what is this thing um one is more than zero that's what it is yeah yeah um it's a gary v quote because you know gary v is the king of the entrepreneurs on youtube if you if you look up to an entrepreneur then the default

Starting point is 00:11:31 answer is gary v yeah i've never watched a single thing that he's ever done but that's that's what people say i've like thought a bunch about like making content that isn't like super linux related that i was just like thinking of like making like almost like spoofs of like things like that. Cause I feel like, like, especially like the 10 times, 10 times pro 10 X programmer and stuff like that. And I was just like thinking of like, I don't know if you've ever seen these, but you see them like all the time, like short videos of like a day in the life.

Starting point is 00:12:00 And it's like, I woke up at 4 AM. I went to the gym for five hours i did two hours of work ate lunch like went back to the gym like these like unbelievably unreasonable lifestyles and they're like i only work a two-hour day i could show you right now how you guys can drop out of high school and just start making money yeah i've signed i've definitely seen some of those yeah i've like thought of a bunch of that, but I feel like there's probably somebody that's done those before. I think I can find it.

Starting point is 00:12:32 There's a clip from Lewis Spears, who's an Aussie comedian, who basically just ragged on the nonsense, I wake up at 4 a.m. nonsense. I don't know. Found it. Okay, cool. Don't play it. I'm going'm gonna send you the link and then we're gonna play it uh uh do i have my wait where's my discord window oh it's behind the wait how do i do this okay well camera's broke that's fine. Whatever. I just broke my camera. There we go. All right.

Starting point is 00:13:09 Turn it down. Okay, I'm ready to play it whenever. I'm playing it right now. Oh, you're already playing it? Okay, well, I'll play it with everyone else then. You know those entrepreneur cunts that are like, man, every day I wake up at four in the morning and i start my day i go for a run i do this i answer emails i get some business calls done i do this i do that

Starting point is 00:13:31 i do that none of these entrepreneur cunts tell us what they're doing at night it's always the morning why are you gonna wake up at 4 a.m to be an entrepreneur you don't all these cunts that go on joe rogan's podcast i wake up at 4 a.m do you know what they're doing at 7 p.m fucking sleeping they have the same amount of hours awake as the average person they just wake up earlier and they're pretending like they go to bed at midnight like you and me they don't they go to bed at 7 p.m loser yeah millionaire that's pretty much the toilet yeah you actually said 4 a.m as well uh yeah i i um i follow oh what there's a there's a navy seal who every morning at four i think he wakes up 4 30 in the morning every morning he posts a picture of his watch i can't remember his name

Starting point is 00:14:17 um are you talking about like he like has like an instagram page and he like uh and he like has like i remember one video where the first one that i saw he like tied his hands and feet together behind his back and he's like I didn't make it into the marines for years because I didn't know how to swim and this is how I taught myself or something like that it's hilarious I I like don't use Instagram that much but like I feel like I don't know I don't know about you but like all my friends like none of my friends are tech related people um which is part of the reason that i made a youtube channel because like who else are you going to talk to about it that's fair but random people on the internet yeah a lot of my friends um well i don't talk to many of the people i went to like high

Starting point is 00:14:57 school with most of the people i met were from university so obviously going to university you're going to meet people who are also doing the same sort of degree you're doing. But I don't know. None of them use Linux though. Every one of them is either a windows or a Mac user. I don't know why. Yeah. Oh yeah.

Starting point is 00:15:14 Especially like in software engineering. Cause like, I think you said you're also in software engineering. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm also in software engineering or I guess, I guess you're done now,

Starting point is 00:15:21 but I'm still in it. But I, yeah, you notice that like all the time everyone just uses macs honestly uh which is kind of like just weird at this point like i feel like it made sense before but now it's like why why are you guys doing this to yourself well i get the i get the windows thing that makes sense because every like all the software is made for windows but why mac yeah i don't get the mac thing i like especially because like a lot of them

Starting point is 00:15:44 don't use like the command line or anything like i feel like one of the nicest things about like for a programmer using mac is that you have like you know a terminal that's pretty unix friendly it's like it's technically it is like certified unix i'm pretty sure still yeah yeah so i guess with that but yeah i i with the uh well windows makes a bit more sense now as a developer if if you're really lazy and you don't want to swap because you have wsl because now you can do basically anything you want through that so there's far less of a reason people to actually switch over to linux at this point for sure i feel like yeah especially that's actually one of the things that got me into linux

Starting point is 00:16:21 um well like i like looked at it before because like other time I just got like, I don't know, I got like so frustrated with how many things I had like in my browser and like different things that were like cluttering up my screen. And I kind of just wanted to make things go faster. And then eventually like you just run into like a limit of how fast, like you're not going to really move much faster when Explorer still takes freaking 15 minutes to open. But then I was like, oh, maybe Linux seems like a pretty good option. And then I saw like WSL and I tried it out like back when it was like pre, like in like beta or something like that.

Starting point is 00:16:50 And I was like, this seems pretty neat. I should just switch. Which sadly wasn't that simple, but it was pretty close to that. Well, I've said it before, but I switched to Arch in the middle of a semester and just had to basically work out how to do my assignments as quickly as possible. Not a good suggestion.

Starting point is 00:17:08 I wouldn't recommend it. But it's a good way to teach yourself very quickly. That's for sure. Yeah. I switched because I originally... So when I started university, I was in just normal. Because I don't know if your university did the same, but you started like generic engineering for your first year at my university. And then in second, second, second year,

Starting point is 00:17:28 you like declare like what engineering you're going into. And so I originally was in like electrical engineering. And I took, I took way too long to like change my mind. I was like, I just don't like this. This is too much math. This is stuff that I'm like, just don't want to do any of these jobs. And so I did like two years of that. So I did like three years of university and then threw away two of them, which is pretty, don't recommend it. Just finish your degree and then get a job in software, probably better off.

Starting point is 00:17:54 But anyway, so I switched to software engineering and when I did that, I also decided like, you know what, maybe I'll just run Linux now because I don't have to worry about using stuff like Atmel Studio is like, I don't know if you know what that is, but it's basically like visual studio, not visual studio code, visual studio, like the actual IDE, but for like at mill embedded systems. And we had to use that in my university for electrical engineering. And I was like, well, I can't use Linux because of this, but then I was like, why not? And that's when I switched. But, but I also like, I did, I did like competitive not and that's when I switched but uh but I also like I did I did like competitive sprint canoe which is like super a super weird sport uh you thought you might want

Starting point is 00:18:33 to pull up a picture because it's really I'm gonna do that I I understood the words you said but in a sentence they don't make sense um yeah uh actually i'll see if i can find a picture and i'll throw it to you send it to you so you can uh pull it up but basically if you see any of the ones where people are kneeling that's what i did yeah okay yeah yeah i found them yeah and i yeah i've seen this before yeah it's in like the olympics and everything um that's what came up actually yeah and i uh i basically i competed i've basically done that since i was like eight um and i was like i did like i was like i don't want to toot my own horn i was like pretty good at it um like me and one of my friends like went to junior worlds uh for it which was

Starting point is 00:19:24 pretty sweet so you got like a trip to got to go on a trip to portugal and like compete for that sort of stuff um and then when i went to university i was like oh i'm gonna keep doing this and everything uh which is like pretty difficult especially because like it's not popular like i would like in my part of canada it's pretty unpopular but if you live in like halifax or nova scotia which is like the other side of canada for me um it's pretty popular there shout outs to like zero of the people watching this that are there i have no idea where anything in canada is so just i'll just point them i can find canada that's that's about as far as i can get it's all the same uh it's just like a different side of the

Starting point is 00:19:58 coast don't worry i know there's like a french canada but that's about as far as i know yeah french canada is quebec but um but anyways so i i did that sort of thing and then when i was in university i like kept going to they have like a spring camp in florida um it's pretty like i would go to the like training camp for u23s which would be like the next thing up from juniors junior worlds um and basically i would go to that training camp and i basically like you could do courses but honestly doing a full engineering course load like i don't know what it's like for your university but it's like five to six courses or i guess pretty it is six courses six to seven courses um at my university so it's like i want to do a full course that i couldn't

Starting point is 00:20:39 go to training camp like you can't be like training for like three times two hours a day so like six hours a day plus like the training camp is like pretty it's one of those things that like i don't know if you've ever like gone for like a run or something and you're like just feel so exhausted that you just like don't you just can't move uh like that's pretty much what the training camp is kind of like like we'd probably clock in like in a week the best way to relate it is if you guys do running or i think you said in like a podcast that you've run that you do like running sometimes if you have been very lazy working out but i was for a while i have these paddling like energy use i'm sorry i have these periods of time it's fine you have a lot of energy and it's hard to keep up with you um oh sorry i'm like a fast

Starting point is 00:21:21 talker i i can i can tell um i have these periods where i i get very very into running and then i get lazy for a couple of months and stop doing it yeah um yeah anyways i was gonna basically say it was like running the amount of energy you use running is the same as if you paddled the same sort of distance um like the muscles that get tired are different but like the feeling of how tired you feel is pretty much the same. And so like in a, in a normal day, we'd clock in at least, uh, we'd probably clock in like almost 30 kilometers a day, um, for three months straight, five days a week. Um, and then on Saturdays we'd usually do like a, uh, like just like a hard, like a hard practice, like maybe like a 15k paddle all at once

Starting point is 00:22:05 right right um which is like pretty pretty rough it's like because i don't know if you can see the pictures but kneeling like that for like 15k straight is pretty uh uncomfortable so it's to hurt pretty bad yeah i can imagine so uh but uh yeah so like i used to do that so it wasn't so when i switched to linux that's when I did it. Basically, during the day when I was not training, I was like, I don't want to move. A few times, we'd be like, do you guys want to go play football on the beach?

Starting point is 00:22:34 We're like, yeah, that sounds awesome. I think we'd go out on the beach and just be destroyed for the next three days. It was so easy to get heat stroke when you're training that often. You're out in direct sunlight. There's no trees covering you up. And so you're just spending six hours a day in direct sunlight, like 30 degrees sometimes. So I would basically just sit, have my computer on my lap, and I would just do Linux-y things, which was pretty sweet. And I learned a bunch of stuff.

Starting point is 00:22:59 But I'm pretty lucky to be in a situation like that. Except now it takes me forever to graduate. Anyways, on a different topic. I was trying not to make it too long, but I was like, man, I just got to explain it, get it over with. Because I feel like I get asked about it a lot. If you speak in 300 words a minute, nothing takes a while. Yeah, for sure. I also just drank way too much coffee before this, as you can probably tell.

Starting point is 00:23:26 I'm not much of a coffee drinker. Yeah, I used to, and then the second I stopped drinking coffee and gave myself a couple of days break, I was like, wow, this is what it feels like to be calm. And then I just stopped drinking coffee most of the time. I still do occasionally have iced coffees. Not sponsored by Dare, but hey, Dare, hit me up. I'll take pain in iced coffees.

Starting point is 00:23:50 They're really bad for you. They're like, I don't know how much sugar's in it. We'll find out. Per 750 mils, there is 76 grams of sugar in it. Oh, damn. So, no, it's not good for you. Yeah. But going way back,

Starting point is 00:24:09 you're asking about the way my degree was structured. So, the way that we did it at my university is we have basically... So, engineering is its own thing, but your first year is just generic engineering, but software engineering is considered part of the software development side. So that's part of, you have like, I think, cybersecurity, software development, game design,

Starting point is 00:24:35 a couple of things like that. And the first year is just like generic programming. So you learn things like, what is object-oriented programming? Here is some basic introduction to how like programming works here's some introduction to how computers work things like that but um yeah the end i presume engineering works in a similar way where first year it would be like electrical engineering mechanical engineering and all of the other engineering is just part of like the generic thing and then after that you sort of specialize in what you want to do or you could be a really

Starting point is 00:25:06 weird person have a useless degree stick with the generic stream and just pick electives the entire time i want to do some electro engineering i want to do some mechanical engineering you leave and you know nothing about anything yeah sadly that's not an option at my university but no that's a good thing it shouldn't be an option yeah we have like two we have two different strains for like the software program so we have like i think i don't know if you said like that do you guys have that do you guys have like a do you guys have like a software engineering and then a computer science program or are they like no we don't have computer science specialize we yeah because we are computer science if you want to do computer science you have

Starting point is 00:25:42 to go to adelaide university um but also the entry is way higher for that and we are computer science. If you want to do computer science, you have to go to Adelaide University. But also the entry is way higher for that and it's computer science. So what are you going to do with it? Just teach computer science? Well, it's pretty much, honestly, at least at my university, we take like pretty similar courses. We just like, the engineers just like take more courses

Starting point is 00:26:00 and get less electives. Yeah, no, computer science here is very much theoretical and then software engineering is you're actually you know developing software yeah most of the like stuff i guess like the idea yeah we pretty much do like a very similar thing except both do the same thing just the software engineering stuff does like signals and systems sort of stuff like like electrical engineering sort of courses i don't know if you had to take those no i didn't have to do that i did one course on c and that's as close as i got to engineering yeah yeah like the first language i had to learn was c and then my next language was c plus plus and i like because like if i had gone like the software

Starting point is 00:26:42 route when i should have i wouldn't have done C++. I would have learned Java. And so then, yeah, the struggle of Java as an engineer. I feel like every university is just like, oh, yeah, learn Java. You'll definitely use it in the future for some reason. I don't know why. Basically, the only place you'll use Java is if you go work some really boring corporate job. Yeah. Maintain this 30-year- old system that we have no idea how

Starting point is 00:27:07 it works but just keep adding stuff to it because the client wants new features yeah exactly that's like kind of like that's the worst um but yeah so i just had to struggle in that uh during like my algorithms courses uh because that's what they used but we did our algorithm course in actually no we did our algorithm course in java um but our introduction programming class was in python oh oh actually that's like a that's a new thing at my university too they don't use c for it anymore now it's a python course um kind of jealous honestly that would have been so chill oh yeah like learning to like i had never programmed before and i was like oh i guess i'll start with this thing uh which i guess is like chill but yeah we had a couple people in that class who already knew python and

Starting point is 00:27:52 even if you didn't know python it was it was basic programming stuff like how do you use if statements how do you use case statements things like that i think the final assignment i don't know some like basic calculator or something like that uh if you knew how if statements work you could do it pretty easily because they didn't want anything um like dealing with uh reverse polish notation or anything like that they wanted it very basic because at least reverse polish notation would be difficult because then you have to work out like structures as a tree but that would be that'd be a bit too complex for first or first semester students i guess yeah i remember like the last thing that we had to learn about was like linked we had to do learn how to do like linked lists with like structs i don't know

Starting point is 00:28:35 how much c you've done which but that's like pretty like kind of basic but like honestly when i was like learning it i was like this is this is the most complex thing i've ever seen i have no idea how this works uh i didn't well honestly like after i had like tried it it made like a lot more sense but when i first saw it i was like this is this is wizardry i don't understand yeah when it got to my uh my data structures course that was when i realized that drawing stuff on paper can sometimes be very useful yeah yeah no for sure that's like especially like like especially when you are using a language that has pointers and stuff like that too it's like so it makes things so much easier to follow especially when like you know i don't know if you guys did you guys ever have to do like the like

Starting point is 00:29:13 write your code on paper uh questions i had an exam where i had to do code on paper yeah same i had that for like well i guess most of my like programming like the courses where they're like teaching us a language we had to do that and then one of ours we had to do uh we had to yeah we had to do by hand coding python stuff and i was like yep why would you do this with python it's the worst language to write by hand because it's like how are you gonna you're gonna count on me to make my indentation clear like it's just so silly we had the exact same thing uh luckily that was a very easy exam and there were basically 10 free marks if you could uh i think the last question because we did um oh in the final week you got 10 free marks if you could like create a class

Starting point is 00:30:01 just basic basic create a class now and like basically 10 free marks because they didn't expect anyone to study for it that's kind of awesome honestly i feel like yeah at least like ours was actually pretty reasonable but like i since i had like the time when we had to do that i'd already taken a course that had to do with c because that was like a general like everyone would take it course so like you didn't have to be in software engineering to take it and so like which was super chill for me because like a lot of other people were like this is so unbelievable and i was like oh thank god i don't have to learn this again so what languages besides those did you go through or have you gone through at least so far

Starting point is 00:30:37 uh in university how far are you now or are you done uh like i should be done by this point but because i was like going i was pretty much taking a semester off every year uh okay uh train and then i was like pretty much taking the summer off to compete as well um i like set myself back super far so like i should only have like a year left but like i don't know i feel like my i end up just all over the place at this point but uh but i've pretty much said languages that I've covered in university, at least. We did C, which was my first language. C++. Did Java.

Starting point is 00:31:12 And then we did Python. It's weird that that's the last language I learned. Yeah, that's an odd one. But yes. And then I think that's the last stuff I've covered for school. And then I've done stuff like I've, I've learned like I've recently been playing around with like some like other languages. Like I've been playing around with like a racket,

Starting point is 00:31:29 like a scheme, like a lisp. All those lisp enthusiasts out there going crazy. But yeah, that's pretty much all the language I've learned. Did you do, I think you said at one point that you did like C sharp in your university. Yeah, we had a much wider range of languages we covered because the problem with my university is they're not there's not much uh coordination past first year after that point each of the

Starting point is 00:31:53 lectures just do whatever the hell they want so i did python java uh javascript um c sharp with asp JavaScript, C Sharp with ASP.NET, C Sharp for Windows development, Swift for iOS, Java with LibGDX, also C Sharp with Unity. Holy, that is quite the variety, honestly. Yeah, after I i left they have been restructuring the degree so i think first year they're just going to be doing python now

Starting point is 00:32:32 yeah i think like i think it makes sense to do like well i think like learning more languages is useful but i feel like to a certain extent it's like okay let's uh let's just let's just get this let's teach the content rather i think four languages is fine because that's that's when you start to realize that oh learning a new language is actually really easy but when you're getting to like six or seven that's when it starts to be like okay well i know i know like the syntax of all these languages but i can't say i really know any of these languages yeah exactly that's like uh yeah that's kind of the reason that i started learning like racket well also because i was just like it's like you know one of the one of the functional languages gotta get on the hit on the trend um and yeah and it's like just like a

Starting point is 00:33:17 different language which is kind of like interesting a different syntax but some people like some people get so hung up on syntax you know like kind of bothers it kind of just drives me crazy i don't know about you but i just like some people are like just like it's like we get it there's there's syntax issues with the language but it's not like that's not gonna that's not like this language is the worst thing in the in the world we can never use this language because it has a syntax issue well that's one of the things that i didn't like about python back when i first did it because i'd actually done some Java beforehand and not having brackets there

Starting point is 00:33:48 and relying on indentation to do everything. It was kind of weird. But what you realize is, sure, you can have these arguments about syntax, but ultimately it's not going to change anything. So just deal with it as it is. Yeah, it is annoying dealing with indentation, but it's like

Starting point is 00:34:05 it's not that big of a deal if you got if you have a good editor it'll just do it automatically for you anyway so just stop complaining yeah exactly um but yeah anyways actually i had like a list of topics that i was oh you do have a topic as well that's rare yeah i was also just like i knew i was gonna end up doing exactly what i was saying where i was like just talking really fast so i figured this would slow me down a bit um yeah so i was like looking uh one second oh never mind no these are all terrible topics actually looking over so i was like i was like just like threw some together based on like uh some uh what's it called some

Starting point is 00:34:45 controversial content because i figured that would be oh yeah one thing to talk about well i threw my list together at like 10 p.m last night so that's where i was going to bed all right i was just looking i had one that was like because i watched i don't i don't watch like the linux gamer very much but i saw like one of the ones where he was talking about how he like banned cursing oh yeah um in his comments and i actually was like i was like that's actually like a pretty oh sorry i guess you can't hear that uh sorry my headphones like picked up i guess it thought i said okay google or something but all right there it goes again uh anyway so i what i was gonna say was that he likes made like a cursing is bad thing and all that sort of stuff and i was like you know honestly that's kind of

Starting point is 00:35:28 like like at first i was like that's just silly and then i was like you know what i feel like it actually does make sense that i feel like allowing like like i think it's like your content so i feel like it's fair to like uh have your own opinion on it and stuff like that and limit what people can talk about and stuff like that if they want to talk like curse and stuff they can curse somewhere else other than comments but i was kind of like interested like what do you think on the idea of like is i wish i hadn't said so much in my opinion because i feel like that sways things but what are your thoughts on like is do you do you think people should curse less i guess uh i'm an aussie so that that's a bad question to ask me um we did watch the lewis spears clip

Starting point is 00:36:07 earlier that basically sums up what it means to be an aussie yeah you is it like is it like do people curse around kids in australia oh yeah absolutely yeah really no doubt yeah um i try not to around other people's kids but like, if my parents curse around me a lot, that people curse around their kids, people curse around other people's kids. I normally don't do it in public just because, uh, usually I've,

Starting point is 00:36:35 okay. That's what I mean. At least unless I'm with like people I know, like if, if it's just some random person who I've never met, like, or you fucking dog, where's,

Starting point is 00:36:43 where's the, where's the train station no i'm not gonna do it with some random person i'll do it with a mate though um but i don't really have a problem with people i i get that some people aren't really a big fan of it um so i'm more than happy to not curse around certain people or anything like that but if it's people i know people who i i know aren't gonna just have a whine about it sure i'll i don't really have a problem with doing it and if someone wants to say you know it's the same with uh i know for a while uh didn't luke have bloat blocked in his comment section yeah i if you don't

Starting point is 00:37:21 want certain topics being talked about in your like, I fully get that some people want to do that. That makes sense. Whether that's to stop certain things happening or whether that's to stop really annoying topics from happening, whether that's to stop people from just harassing them for no reason. If that's what they want to do to their section, that's fine. It's just I don't really like the idea of, you know, when, say, like YouTube decides, okay,

Starting point is 00:37:48 these topics are not allowed on the platform. That I have a problem with. But if people individually want to go and moderate what happens around them, that's fine. I think more people need to be doing that. Like with people complaining that they're getting harassed on Twitter and stuff like that, like you have a block button i think it's kind of your job to moderate what happens around yourself yeah i feel like also something oh god i was gonna say i sort of that's sort of where i

Starting point is 00:38:17 stand a lot of things like if you have the power to control it yourself then you should just if you want to do that i don't really have a problem with you controlling what happens in your own life yeah get like it's your own thing you don't have to get over it or something if you have a problem with it block it out it's like the same thing as like especially like something that comes up a lot in like you know the linux open source community is like the idea of like changing a project like uh oh what's that what's that like what's it called again like uh not a eula but a like uh oh what's it called when you like like a rules for like what you can talk about in uh code of conduct code of conduct that's the word i was looking for like everybody everybody gets like so upset about a code of conduct which i feel is like totally reasonable but i feel like

Starting point is 00:39:00 also like a lot of the people that are pushing for a change in things like a code of conduct are like the same people that it's like man this is such a big deal to you maybe like I don't know obviously you're not gonna fork the Linux kernel but like some things it's like honestly like if you want to fork it like something like glimpse do it like if it works forking projects and then not working on them that's fine um my problem is when an outside group comes and tries like force a code of conduct onto another project which has definitely happened with a lot of bigger projects and that's how a lot of them started adopting things like the contributed covenant

Starting point is 00:39:35 if a project wants to do it of their own volition sure whatever but that's not usually how it ends up going down it usually ends up being that someone comes and bothers the project about it. Sort of the same reason why the main guy behind Python, what was his name? I don't remember. There's no way I'm going to remember. Python Dictator for Life. um python dictator dictator for life uh guido von rossman uh rossum sorry um yeah yeah due to like issues that are happening in the python community he sort of stepped down but as i said i don't have a problem if a project decides they want to do it of their own volition

Starting point is 00:40:27 that that's that's sort of like if if the main dev team's like hey we need something we need some sort of code of conduct that that's fine but yeah i'm sort of going in circles right now yeah yeah no for sure no it's like like a good example of what like of some things is like, like it's not the exact same thing, obviously, but like something like NeoVim and Vim, like this isn't really the only reason that was forked, obviously, but like there was just two different views on how things should be handled

Starting point is 00:40:54 and NeoVim became a thing. It's like pretty much- It's sort of funny if people complain about that because Vim exists because it's a fork. Yeah, exactly. It's like, well, Vim is like a... Or a re-implementation, I guess. Yeah, that's the term I was using.

Starting point is 00:41:10 That's sort of how the entire project's gone. It's like Vi was a re-implementation of X. X was a re-implementation of Ed. That's just how this history has gone. I don't know why anyone would complain about that, really. Yeah, for sure and that's like kind of sort of thing where it's like well like i don't know like especially like a lot of people there's a lot of videos that are like what is the difference between neo vim and

Starting point is 00:41:34 vim and like i feel like the big thing is that like people don't like i feel like a lot of people treat it as if like they're like exclusive things like it's like you have to pick a side. And I chose this side because of these reasons. And you shouldn't choose this side for this reason. I saw there was one video. I don't know if you've watched TJ, the NeoVim dev. He does a lot. He's fair enough. The name rings a bell.

Starting point is 00:41:59 He's pretty, well, I don't know him personally. I've just watched a bunch of his streams sometimes, because I'm the king of procrastination. And he very clearly is very interesting to listen to him talk about the development state for NeoVim because he makes things pretty clear that it's not a fight between NeoVim and Vim. There's communication between the two.

Starting point is 00:42:21 Bram clearly doesn't care too much about what NeoVim does. Some things, he'll be like, a lot of things it's like oh he sees like a neat feature and he thinks maybe that would be cool to implement and then it's implemented it's not like a like competitive like oh man neo vim has this i need to add it uh sort of thing which i think is like kind of neat but i feel like a lot of people treat it as if it's a direct competition. That's like all over the community, which I think is funny. Yeah, well, NeoVim is sort of an interesting one because that's the reason sort of what's pushing Vim forward

Starting point is 00:42:55 because Bram has his vision on what Vim sort of needs to be. But NeoVim will do something like bring in concurrency. And Bram was like, no, this application must be single-threaded. It is only single-threaded. There is no reason for it to be more than single-threaded. Five years later, he was like, okay, well, maybe they were right. That's sort of how it seems to go with Bram. NeoVim will do something.

Starting point is 00:43:22 It might be good. Eventually, if it's good good bram will bring it into vim as well totally i feel like yeah and it's like it's the sort of thing where it's like it doesn't seem nice it doesn't seem worth it until someone's pretty worth it but uh yeah anyways uh you said you had a list of topics right i feel like i'm pulling you away from topics because i'm chatty no No, that's entirely fine. I never really care about actually hitting the topics. I'm more than happy to just go on random, random tangents.

Starting point is 00:43:54 Well, one thing is, what distro are you running right now? I run Arch. Okay. I'm basic. I saw you were using, it's DWm you're running aren't you it looks like yeah okay i wasn't sure what distro you had though why'd you end up going that route just because of luke like a lot of people uh i well originally so when i originally started using linux it was because i was trying to like i said before like strip down my system and like all

Starting point is 00:44:24 that sort of stuff and like i looked up what is the most minimal system i could get and so the first one that i saw uh the first one that came up honestly searching stuff like this up on google is just a terrible idea you never get real answers yeah yeah um the first one that came up was like alpine and i tried i like looked into running alpine but then i was like oh it looks like it's like some docker thing i don't know about that i don't know if i want to do that sort of thing not that that's actually what it is but that's just like how it's marketed nowadays by other people because that's what it's used for a lot of the time um and then another one that came up that everyone was like oh you should try this is arch uh the other one was gen 2 but that would have just been uh you know not really uh

Starting point is 00:45:00 that would have been a bad idea also like i knew of gen 2 as like that thing that's like oh you got to be like an intense gray beard level kind of guy to to go into that and i was like arch seems pretty approachable um and also like i first tried out like manjaro uh before that and i was like oh like at least like a lot of this will be similar when i moved when i set up my arch system yeah um and then i just kind of went that route that's kind of why i went with it i'm honestly like it's one of those things that i'm like I try to avoid bringing up because I feel like everybody like has that whole like oh I run Arch BTW meme that I'm just so sick of hearing uh I don't know about you but well with Arch I sort of I I've got a video coming up about it soon um why I don't really

Starting point is 00:45:42 care for distro hopping because the thing about arch and it's not just an arch thing it's sort of a thing with a lot of the other minimal distro so void and gen 2 as well you don't really think about the fact that you're running the distro because of how like how different it is compared to when you first install it like my arch system probably looks nothing like yours and probably looks nothing like the next person because we all started from like a tty but no one runs arch like that but if you go and install something like say ubuntu most people who run ubuntu are probably going to stick with gnome so even even if they're like slight customizations ultimately every ubuntu system basically looks the same but you can have completely different arch systems and

Starting point is 00:46:27 that's just the way it's it's going to go like you could have yeah i'm running awesome or someone else could run like kd at kde and they could like swap out the window manager for something else they really wanted to it's just like there's no one arch system that's that's one of the things i do like about it yeah i think it's like especially for people in a position like i feel like most people that run arch and i think did a really good job at summarizing this sorry uh i i feel like once you start making youtube videos you watch less youtube videos but i just i thought i'd watch that one because it's like uh it'd be a pretty reasonable take uh but anyway so i watched that one and he like did like a really

Starting point is 00:47:04 good way of summarizing. Like eventually if you just get into Linux, like you're going to end up on something like some minimal distro. Cause you just like, you don't, whoever made the distro for you doesn't know what you want. Only you know what you want.

Starting point is 00:47:16 But like some people like don't care about that. Some people just want a system that's up and ready to go. And I feel like that's why like, that's one of the benefits of like other operating, other distros like Ubuntu and stuff like that is like a lot of people that want to become like linux devs like are also not people that are like wanting to spend their entire life setting up a system yeah that's actually what the situation is but like the fact that like people

Starting point is 00:47:38 can just use something like fedora that's like pretty targeted towards devs and stuff like that is like honestly probably one of the reasons that we like linux functions like obviously like like eventually people will move to whatever works for them but like i feel like people also don't don't look at that way that perspective like even though it doesn't fit most people also that run that make videos on linux are exactly the people that i was describing before that are like that want to customize yeah yeah uh but yeah so i feel like i feel like it's a great fit for like people in this sort of situation but like i feel like people like to give too much hate to like the not that i'm saying that you're trying but uh i feel like people like to not consider

Starting point is 00:48:13 the situation that it's like that's that sort of thing is the only reason that we have as many devs as we do like we definitely lose out on a lot of uh user-friendly devs i just realized the video topic there. I have a notebook right here. I sometimes write stuff as I'm going to bed. I think I'm going to do a video on the place for the built-up distro, things like Ubuntu, Manjaro, things like that. Because, yeah, you're right.

Starting point is 00:48:41 A lot of those distros do get a lot of hate. Like, oh, they're the newbie-friendlyros but i think that's that's sort of i think part of the the reason for that is we're very much in this uh very tiny niche so it seems like there's a lot people a lot more people who hate on those distros than there really is yeah like dwm i'm sure a lot of people run that but it seems like there's more people that run it because the people that we're typically around. Yeah, that's exactly like, that's like a DWM is another one of those things saying I try not to show it off if I can. Whenever I make videos, I always like if I remember to, so that way no one like knows that I'm right. Because I just feel like it's of supporting this idea that there's one perfect system of running Arch and DWM

Starting point is 00:49:28 and running all the suckless utilities and only using C for everything is this perfect system that's untouchable and if you aren't using that you're making a mistake. That's just silly. The one problem you have with hiding DWM is that bar is very noticeable. It's funny because what you were saying like oh my system probably looks completely different from you i was like at the time soon why is discord cutting out again i i didn't hear that last thing you said i just said when you said that uh that we have like very similar systems i was like i mean very

Starting point is 00:50:01 different systems i was like well hopefully you don't run DWM anytime soon. Otherwise they'll look identical. At least that's what I find. Like they look so similar. I like emojis in my bar though. So at least it'll look different there. That's true. Yeah. I don't really put stuff up there.

Starting point is 00:50:18 I don't really know why. I guess like I probably could, but. My awesome bar is the default bar still. I haven't done anything with it. I think... Yeah, how are you liking awesome, actually? I really enjoy it. It's actually a really, really cool window manager.

Starting point is 00:50:33 The main things I've messed around with is just tweaking how windows move around and things like that. And just... I don't know why they did this. The default keys for Awesome make no sense. They use, like, HJK and Elf, like, resizing windows, doing things like that, instead of moving stuff around.

Starting point is 00:50:54 So I just had to rewrite all the default bindings. How do you move between windows, then? Arrow keys. It's the same as they normally would be with Vim keys, but it's arrow keys instead. Oh, that's weird. Yeah. Like, you know, EDU, but like,

Starting point is 00:51:11 kind of questionable. I guess that makes sense. It's meant to be like kind of working out of the box, right? Yeah, it's one of those things like I3. It works fine out of the box, even though it makes no sense sometimes. Like I3s are backwards vim bindings yeah or it's like what is it jkl colon or semicolon oh no yeah it's not backwards they

Starting point is 00:51:31 shift them over yeah yeah yeah which like honestly like at least when i first uh installed when i first like looked at like window managers like luke smith is like obviously the first guy that comes up and uh and distro tube but like distro tube was like showing up at the time when I like looked at distro tube was like really into open box. Uh, so I like, I was just like, ah, that's not really, I didn't, I wasn't really that into it. Cause at the time I was like, I was a KDE guy, uh, which is, which is how you get them locked in. You try KDE and then you just like, like customizing things.

Starting point is 00:51:59 So you're like, I just, I just need more. I want, I want it all. Uh, and so then I just like, i used like i3 and i remember like being so thrown off because like i feel like everybody that like just goes that route because the luke smith wrote uh like tries vim and then you're like i just don't get it what's up with these key bindings they're completely different they're like they just don't make any sense because they just conflict so much it's like just silly but yeah yeah way too sure go ahead there's a i don't know i think most people in this fear sort of know who luke and dt are but as i was saying before it it seems

Starting point is 00:52:36 like more people do than them they're real seem like more people do than really do. There we go. That's how that works. Just because it is this very small group of people. Like, DT only has... I think he's only just passing, like, 100k subs right now, which is still massive. I didn't think there'd be that many people interested in just random, minimal Linux apps. Like, that doesn't make any sense. But he sort of also does the distro stuff as well sometimes um but luke especially most of his original subs came when he was still doing like

Starting point is 00:53:13 the dwm content and stuff like that which i don't know how there's that many people who are actually interested in it but it always surprises me that's that's actually one of the reasons why i did start making videos because i didn't think they were like i didn't before i i started watching luke i didn't think there were that many people who were just going to be interested in stuff like this but as time went on like wow there's actually people who care about this and there are people who are very hungry for content like this and i think you're sort of before that everyone sort of gravitates towards a minimal distro. And I think a lot of people are like that.

Starting point is 00:53:48 And that might be part of the reason why there's now so many people. It's just constantly growing. I don't think it'll be ever like the main thing people do on Linux, but there's always going to be new people coming in just who want to kind of experiment with what's happening on Linux.

Starting point is 00:54:05 Like, Oh, I don't like the fact that a gnome does this thing. I'm going to try out something new and see if I can make something that works a bit better for me. And I think that is one of the cool things about Linux that you can stick with what, what's comfortable,

Starting point is 00:54:21 or you can go throw everything away and just start from the ground up yeah no for sure i feel like that's that's the biggest draw that's like the big um that's the big thing that's the big like that's something that i feel like a lot of people don't don't realize is the big draw like the biggest thing about linux um like i feel like especially when it comes to like like a lot of my friends, I've like, is trying to, I try not to be like a Linux evangelist to like an extreme extent around friends. Cause I feel like it just, you know,

Starting point is 00:54:51 it's hard on relationships, if you know what I mean. It's like, if you're just like, if you're just like, dude, you gotta be using this thing. Why aren't you using this? Then you're just like, you're just being a dick. But anyways, what I was gonna say was like, I thought about like the idea of it. And it's like the fact that you could just like like like whenever somebody has an issue with something on their

Starting point is 00:55:08 system like i don't know if you've ever tried to connect like bluetooth headphones on windows but it has like the dumbest setup ever in my opinion because you have to like just there's too many steps to it it should just be one step uh for the most part and you could just you could just make that yourself even if you didn't find anything for you online, which is just so nice. I've never had any luck with Bluetooth on Linux, so I can't speak for Linux being good. Linux is Bluetooth being good. Yeah, I can't say it's perfect. I show off, I made a video.

Starting point is 00:55:36 Oh, I didn't hear any of that. Discord is god awful. Fair enough. I saw my mic just suddenly disappear, and I was like, huh. Anyways, what I was going to say was, did like a video showing off like my setup with bluetooth um but it's like it's not too bad but honestly like there's there's too many there's too many steps to it anyways but at least it's done once yeah yeah so i guess it sounds it's actually terrible on all sides bluetooth is awful well at least with bluetooth on linux you can just

Starting point is 00:56:04 if if you know what you want toux you can just if if you know what you want to connect you can just make a script that does all that stuff in the background for you yeah exactly actually honestly i think scripting is one of the biggest reasons we like get so many like people going to linux especially like mac users that go to linux like i feel like people like i feel like also like that's another thing is that people are just like so hard on like people that use macs and i feel like it's like if it wasn't for at least mac before probably not as common now because i feel like the transition is getting worse and worse as uh um as like apple just locks things down more and more like the fact that you can't use vulcan

Starting point is 00:56:37 um well you can i guess but i think it's like a weird hack around it's like uh kind of something similar to how like wine does like uh or not wine vx was it vxvk or x i don't know you know what i'm talking about uh gaming thing yeah yeah yeah um yeah it's like what is like vulcan on metal or something like that i don't know what it's called it's something like that um and it's like the like that sort of stuff is like a pretty big barrier like i feel like as they make that sort of stuff but like i feel like a lot of people that make like especially command line tools are like people on mac uh and then eventually like they'll end up on linux hopefully i have noticed that if you go on github a lot of the screenshots will be of like um what are the mac terminals called that i forget

Starting point is 00:57:20 the name of um like i term two yeah that one yeah yeah i just was like whatever sounds right yeah i always see like usually the thing i'll notice is the little um the mac uh bubbles like the bubble yeah yeah like oh yeah that's a mac isn't it yeah that makes sense um no for sure but then you have the other extreme where it's like i am running gen 2 and i only run gen 2 uh uh yeah exactly it's like funny because it's like i feel like it's just like i find like the biggest it's like it's just like guys realize that we can all get along we're not on like just let me be a bit more welcoming to these sort of guys and then maybe we'll get like an extra dev on some project you like uh it's kind

Starting point is 00:58:09 of how i look at it it's like the same thing as like like when people oh go ahead man i was gonna say that's why i sort of don't flame like distro wars i i don't i don't care just run a distro it doesn't matter ultimately like in the end if you really try hard enough you can replace everything on the distro you can replace the kernel you can replace your package manager you can literally turn ubuntu into arch if you really wanted to there is no barrier yeah it's crazy especially like uh oh what was i just thinking of i was thinking of um i forget anyways yeah i don't remember uh let's see uh oh yeah okay that that that reminds me um let's go here i i need i need to ask you about something uh i need to ask you about this channel banner you

Starting point is 00:59:07 have my channel banner yeah your channel banner oh i know the one that was actually made for me by uh by a sub which was like super sick honestly it is kind of like a bit awkward honestly it does not look like the banner you'd have for a linux channel that's for sure yeah i appreciate that he made it it's better than i would have done um but yeah it's uh it's a bit cringy because it's like a picture uh i was like you just like asked for me to send him some pictures and i just like grabbed whatever ones i had on hand and the only time i ever have pictures of myself is uh at like competitions yeah yeah um and i just for some reason looked really serious in that one and that was the one that he went with which uh was my fault shouldn't have shared that one if i didn't

Starting point is 00:59:52 want to have it as my uh banner well if you want to just redirect to be like an entrepreneur channel you can just keep the same banner you wouldn't even look out of place yeah exactly i wait i do five hours at the gym then i make linux videos yeah yeah exactly i i can show you how to make 15 a month uh making linux content um i guess i guess it depends on how many subscribers you have but i feel like i feel like there's a lot of people that like make there's also like it's weird like some people that make linux content that have been around for like forever have like 2 000 subscribers but i've like been around for like years and years making like constant videos um actually like yeah that's exactly the example i was literally listening

Starting point is 01:00:38 to that today because i was like i should make sure that i know how this podcast sounds a bit ahead of time yeah yeah even though. Yeah, Hex was a fun guest. He was saying that he'd be around forever. Even though I was up very early in the morning for that one. His UK time. Yeah, Hex has been around for how many years at this point? Let's find out. Because he's not even at 10K yet,

Starting point is 01:01:00 which is really weird. 11 years. That's insane i don't even know if i've had a good like a google like account like an account that i could have made youtube videos on for that long that's insane okay no there were just a couple of random videos but he started making videos regularly five years ago. Okay, so still a long time, a really long time. Yeah, it's, like, kind of crazy. And it's, like, I feel like a lot of it is just, like, stuff, like, people just aren't looking.

Starting point is 01:01:38 Like, especially because he used to do, at least when I was listening to the podcast, he was saying that he used to do, like, Linux video gaming content, which, like, you know what? Super niche. Well, he was saying that he used to do like Linux video gaming content, which like, you know what? Super niche. Well, he still does do that. It's just,

Starting point is 01:01:49 yeah, it's, it's still pretty niche. It'll usually what he does is like, I'm going to test the game, but lately he's just been very much pushing Gemini and things like that. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:02:03 I liked, I remember I first saw one of his back when like dt mentioned him on like his gopher video and i was like oh i'm surprised i've just never seen this guy and he had like some pretty interesting videos and stuff uh oh yeah i was surprised that uh dt hadn't been around much longer because especially considering how long hex has been around i think dt's only been around for like three or so years i feel like the big reason is like up until recently like the biggest draw for clicks is like distro reviews yeah yeah i would and you can like myself doing those go ahead yeah you can see it like you can see like channels will like do be doing pretty all right and then you know they do like a distro review bam like booming especially if they do something

Starting point is 01:02:51 like a distro review of like i don't know a boon too or something versus something something versus something that's a good way to do it actually uh speaking of distro views like somebody who does like what like distro did dish i guess it's not really quite the same anymore but like do you know who eegie is like uh he's got like a like um oh i think so for a thumbnail or like a profile picture uh but anyways i remember he he like does like distro dells which are like legitimately like actually a review and you know what if you're gonna make a distro of you at least at least you got to do it right like he does he at least does he doesn't do like an insane amount of research on like some of them but he at least like

Starting point is 01:03:32 gives you like a breakdown of like this like this distro was able to like extract these files without issue it didn't open my music in audacity even though obviously i just want to listen to music um and stuff like that which i feel like like you know obviously i don't really watch that very often but it's like i've just like i appreciate it when people like actually i if there's anything that i feel like youtube needs more of it's people doing their due diligence um yeah i've i've definitely tried to make sure i'm getting stuff correct lately because i've a lot of my older videos, I've said stuff that wasn't entirely true. And people have definitely called me out for it.

Starting point is 01:04:12 But having a channel as large as I do have, I feel like I sort of have to at least put some effort into it. Yeah. Especially, like, also, like, it's way harder when you're releasing content as often as to like do that much due diligence um which is the same thing with like dt and uh anybody else that releases a lot of content i guess like mental outlaw who got it this time mental outlaw is another example of one who like releases like tons of videos all the time well dt dt is way worse than i am because i bulk record i bulk record he records and like and edits and uploads the day it goes out that is insane to me i don't know how he does that yeah it's uh it's well sometimes you can see in the video how he does it but yeah well yeah a lot of them might

Starting point is 01:05:01 just be single takes it was impressive yeah uh but it's uh not like not that the content's bad more of just like the amount of like looking into the topic that he actually got to do was like clearly pretty limited but like some of them some of them like it's pretty impressive how much he knows about like i was like whether or not he's like got like an insane understanding of emacs but at least like covering a topic that big with like no background in it is a pretty big feat to go to go into like i remember i didn't like make because i've made like a few vim related videos but uh and that's pretty much purely because like i before i was like so nervous to make vim related videos because i i i feel like everybody that like before they make youtube videos are so critical of everybody else's videos and they're like this guy got it

Starting point is 01:05:44 totally wrong so i was like i need to know everything possible about them before they make youtube videos are so critical of everybody else's videos and they're like this guy got it totally wrong so i was like i need to know everything possible about vim before i make a single video on it uh and then i was like you know what i feel like i know enough i feel like i know as much as i need to be able to talk about some of this sort of stuff no matter how much you know about vim someone's going to show you a more optimal way to do something yeah i always just try to use whatever's built in and i feel like that way if somebody tells me that there's a plugin for it i could be like i'm just using what's built in with vim therefore i obviously know more that's just how that's how some people look at it which i feel is like like it's like some things like some things plugins are better at like i yeah like

Starting point is 01:06:22 there's some things that are nice but like some things it's pretty hard like going to definition with with c tags you know pretty great but when you have like a huge project like generating those tags just takes like way too long yeah that's a uh another weird fight that exists it's a the a niche fight that no one actually cares about but vanilla vim versus vim with plugins yeah i don't know why there are people who it's like so hard in one camp or the other it doesn't make any sense to me yeah i think like uh i kind of get like the argument or at least like i'm kind of one of those guys that like is pretty into the idea of like not like i don't think i think plugins are totally necessary and it's one of the big like even bram, who is pretty against adding new features into things,

Starting point is 01:07:07 the reason that he doesn't want to add new things in is because he's like, that should just be a plugin. A lot of the time is what he's argued before. I don't want to speak for Bram. But that's what he's at least said publicly sometimes. It's just like, that feature sounds sweet, but it could just be a plugin. And then that's way easier to maintain.

Starting point is 01:07:24 Technically, plugins can be's way easier to maintain uh technically plugins can be kind of brutal to maintain but but yeah i feel like uh like if something if it's built in it's probably gonna work better but sometimes it's not going to yeah like there's stuff like uh some things just like break things like like uh like macros there's like some plugins the person did not put any effort into making macros work and then like you're on a macro and you've suddenly just like deleted the whole file and you're like what was the point of that i guess i'll just undo that and do it manually or turn off the plugin uh so i feel like that makes sense but like the extent of like no plugins is just like

Starting point is 01:07:59 overkill i get it for people who just want to use vim like when they connect to a server that makes sense you should know how to use vim without plugins but like do do some like web development like modern web development in uh in vim without any plugins yeah that's not fun no i don't want to manually write out the the closing tags for everything. That sounds like hell. Yeah, exactly. I think there are ways to do stuff like that that work out well with native Vim, but you're customizing it at that point. So is it really...

Starting point is 01:08:36 Obviously, if you can do it... Sorry, go ahead. I was going to say, all plugins are just Vim script. So really, it's just modifying vim ultimately totally i think i think that's like the biggest the biggest thing for sure uh yeah how do you feel about do you use cock or a coc or conqueror of completion yeah yeah yeah use it okay yeah how do you feel about having it has so much boilerplate configuration i feel like there's like a lot of uh varying degrees of how people feel about that being

Starting point is 01:09:12 said i feel like i don't i don't use cock because i don't do web development and like if i did typescript or javascript i'd probably use it because straight up the typescript language server on most other like language server plugins or using like NeoVim's native stuff is just not usable. It's not, well, it's not usable, but it's nowhere near as good. Using Coq for most other things, it's like pretty much,

Starting point is 01:09:34 you're not getting much extra benefit. But for that sort of stuff, it's like, well, and Java. Java is pretty much terrible to try and do Vim completion. And I don't know if you ever tried that. Goddamn. Oh, no, I don't think I've tried to do Java and Vim completion and i don't know if you ever tried that god damn oh no i don't think i've tried to do jar jar and vim at this point but typescript is lovely i love it yeah but uh yeah exactly if you're using like cock i feel like it's pretty all right but if you're like just trying to do it with using like something else it's like oh my god just like you don't

Starting point is 01:10:00 get any good completion but for some reason it likes cock okay that sounds weird i'm gonna i'm gonna take that one line out of context um now i've done um when i was doing some angular stuff i was using the angular uh server and the typescript server and i didn't have any complaints about it like i i think the last time before that I'd done any Angular stuff was in VS Code. And VS Code, I like VS Code. It's a good editor. If you want to be using something, that's where I would suggest most people going. Most IDEs don't really add anything really extra over VS Code that most people really use. Sure, some of the code coverage features are useful if you're doing some really big projects, but if you're not, it's just extra features there for no reason. So VS Code is probably the only code editor I would go

Starting point is 01:10:58 to besides using just Vim directly, and I didn't really have that much to say about the difference in experience between the two of them that if you get your language servers working correctly at least for typescript and angular it's basically as good as i could want it to be yeah like for sure i feel like i feel like especially when people tell me like a program and i'm starting with and i'm using vim to do it and i just feel like dude i'd like unless you really are set just like use vs code and then when you like feel like you can actually program then maybe then learn because you don't want to learn there's no point in learning two things at

Starting point is 01:11:33 once you're just gonna make more mental overhead you're just making your life harder uh it's like at least well i guess but some people maybe maybe somehow have no idea how to use a normal text editor like VS Code. But VS Code is super user-friendly, comparatively. Well, if you know how to use Notepad, you can work out at least how to type stuff. Exactly. VS Code is one of the things that convinced me that moving to Linux.

Starting point is 01:11:58 Because my university had me using Visual Studio, like the IDE, when i was doing three plus plus and i was like i was like i could never leave this this is so awesome because before that we used um eclipse so obviously it's yeah i can see why visual studio would be awesome yeah and then uh and then i was like oh it's actually well it is pretty honestly vs code is awesome but it's like the sort of thing where it's like oh actually maybe maybe i just was using terrible tools before this uh but like the fact that it's on linux is just honestly pretty sweet i feel like it's like a pretty easy way to like get people trying it out what ids have you had to suffer through because i've got i've got my fair share of them as well

Starting point is 01:12:40 i well i've like pretty much besides like my first year my first year i did eclipse my second year uh i used uh visual studio yep and then i used notepad plus plus which isn't an ide but i used that and then i was just like i don't need an ide anymore uh and then i just i like for my like uh for my testing or what's it called i don't know my testing class that i had to take like a class focused purely on software testing oh okay that'll be a boring class yeah it was it was kind of interesting for some of it um like learning how to like make a good test like how to get perfect code coverage and stuff like that that's one of the things we never really uh never really properly covered like we had some like assignments we had to include some code tests,

Starting point is 01:13:26 but we weren't really taught like what a good code test really is. We're just like, Oh yeah. Input output. That that's basically as far as we got. Yeah. They went, they go,

Starting point is 01:13:38 it's all, it is kind of boring, honestly, but like, I at least appreciate it. I liked the, I appreciated the effort to like try and get that sort of stuff to be better especially because like i feel like testing is something that like

Starting point is 01:13:49 you know people don't really think of very often and when they think of it it's too late yeah yeah uh but like they had like like a topic like focused on like test-driven development which i found like actually like kind of like an approach like none of it was like something that you couldn't learn uh yourself pretty easily sure yeah um but yeah anyways i found that pretty interesting oh yeah but my point was gonna be that i we were supposed to use intellij right but i just used like them almost all of it uh and uh i kind of eventually i had to use intellij for some of the stuff because there wasn't a way to do code coverage i'm sure if somebody will tell us in the comments that there is a way to do it in Vim, but I didn't know how to do code coverage

Starting point is 01:14:28 without IntelliJ. So I had to use that stuff, and then I was like, you know what, fine, I'll just use the Vim plugin for the rest of this class. Vim code coverage. Vim coverage is a utility for visualizing test coverage results in Vim that was easy

Starting point is 01:14:46 what? okay, Google made a Vim plugin to do code coverage, sure that sounds about right, well they've made plugins before actually, well they just let their devs sort of like do side projects when they're not busy, that's how things like um

Starting point is 01:15:02 I think Gmail might have been a side project by one of the devs oh wow that's like pretty that's surprising that like that long ago it was kind of but that that's how google has all these random weird projects some of them they end up killing really quickly because i don't know that i guess that's one of the nice things about working at a company like google i wouldn't ever want to work there cause it sounds like a horrible experience, but the rest of it, that part sounds nice,

Starting point is 01:15:29 but, um, the rest of it, I'm not a big fan of, I don't like the idea of open offices. That's one big thing. I'm not a fan of, um,

Starting point is 01:15:38 but I was going to say about what I've gone through. So, uh, before university, back when I did, uh,ava in high school we're using a program called greenfoot no one i understand you have no idea what greenfoot is no one has ever heard of greenfoot um greenfoot is basically a education tool for doing java uh

Starting point is 01:16:06 yeah if you just look up greenfoot you better should be able to find it what it's sort of like it's a step up from doing scratch so instead of doing everything now we we still drag and drop like elements into the scene but then you have to go and actually program them in java honestly it's kind of a sick way to start i guess yeah it actually is a it's it's definitely a good upgrade from um from scratch and it runs on basically anything uh they've got a really old mac icon for the icon they use for mac uh i don't know why and it's like a finder icon not the macos icon honestly like you got like the images that they have i was like is this a flash thing it i guess if you've if you've done flash it's probably like a good sidestep i guess uh so from there uh i did it's not a not an ide it's a just a code editor uh i used idle for python which is the worst thing you could ever write Python in

Starting point is 01:17:06 oh what's that one? I feel like I've heard of that one before it doesn't have number lines it doesn't have basically any features it's just it's just basically notepad with a run button

Starting point is 01:17:23 oh yeah it's not fun It's just basically Notepad with a run button. Oh. Yeah, it's not fun. So I think like three weeks into that class, one of my mates discovered the JetBrains suite and we used PyCharm for the rest of the class, which is so much better. I've heard you mention JetBrains a few times. Yeah, if I have to use an IDE,

Starting point is 01:17:44 the JetBrains suite is probably the only IDE suite I'll ever use. Fair enough. It seems to be pretty popular. From there, I went to Eclipse. I think it was Eclipse Neon or something. I don't know. All the versions of Eclipse

Starting point is 01:17:59 are awful. I'm sorry to any Eclipse devs that are out there. All one of you that exist maybe there's actually a developer of eclipse watching this in that case i'm i'm slightly sorry to you but your program is really slow like really really slow did you ever have to use eclipse for uh like do they have you use like do assembly stuff at uh at your uni uh i think like one week we did as like a sort of look at what assembly is but no like actual proper assembly coding yeah we had to do like assembly stuff it was weird because like um it was one of those like

Starting point is 01:18:39 i don't know if you've ever had like a pre-lab that you're like this should just be a class like why am i learning this why am i teaching myself this entire course just before this lab? That was basically what it was. They like gave us a pre-lab and then they were like, all right, write a bubble sort algorithm using it, which like is pretty simple, except like when you've literally just taught it to yourself, like probably an hour before class is pretty rough. On that note, I've had some pretty bad

Starting point is 01:19:05 things like that a lot of my classes were actually um you do the class work before class and you come to class to get marked and that's all it was yeah which was dumb that's like so many labs all right what other ideas have you used i just came to mind because i was like oh wait did you ever have to do this because it like has like some nice features for that but uh after i hated my life from using eclipse for a while i discovered intelliJ and that was much nicer um yeah the only problem was that we were given eclipse project files for some of the classes so i would have to like go and rebuild the projects from scratch. Cause I think you can import Eclipse files into IntelliJ. They just don't always work properly.

Starting point is 01:19:52 Yeah, for sure. I, we, we were like always, I feel like at least when we had to use IntelliJ, like for that, uh,

Starting point is 01:19:59 testing class, like we were just given a project and they were like, I think you can just import this. I have no idea if it works. Um, and most of the time it worked. Other times it was like, I, what's then it'd be like oh you need like java 8 to run it well even if it doesn't work you can always just um rebuild the project with the class file it's not a big deal yeah uh okay from there what else did i have holy crap you guys used i mean holy dang you guys used you can say whatever you want i don't care

Starting point is 01:20:26 okay did you forget the lewis clip already yeah i was like i was like just in case he plans to curse it out uh no i don't really care uh visual studio was next uh we did we did html and javascript like just plain HTML in Visual Studio. And then we did JavaScript in Visual Studio. I didn't even know people did that. They don't, but we did in this class. Then sensibly we did C Sharp with ASP.NET, which that's fine.

Starting point is 01:21:03 Because it's the only thing you can do c sharp with asp.net in fair enough um honest i was really surprised i literally thought you could get for c++ and c because i didn't really look too much into it well no you can it's it basically a general idea as well you can't use for other things um you wouldn't want to yeah yeah fair enough uh let's see from there i think my next one would have been android studio that was my android class uh it's literally just intellij with a android emulator built into it so if you like cameras are going crazy that's all good uh yeah it's just it's just intellJ with an Android emulator built into it.

Starting point is 01:21:46 I don't have anything to say about that one. It doesn't seem, at least that's better than like Eclipse with an Android engine. Yeah, that's fair. Ah, that's definitely fair. Um, from there, I think the only other one I would have done was Xcode that was when I was doing iOS stuff and you don't really have sorry go ahead

Starting point is 01:22:11 it's okay it's good I mean it's okay I guess it's all you can really say it's not perfect but it's got pretty much enough I'm pretty sure it's a fork of like mono develop or something on mac os i don't remember it's some weird thing

Starting point is 01:22:33 yeah that's weird that is weird i was like ready for you to say something that i oh no i missed one when we did c++, we were doing C++ with Qt. So we're using Qt Creator. Actually, I've tried Qt Creator before. I found it pretty nice for what you're using it for. It's not really great when you have an editor you like, but if you don't have anything that you like particularly, it's pretty all right.

Starting point is 01:23:00 It's good if you're doing Qt stuff. If you're not, go use CLion or something. Yeah, what are you good if you're doing QT stuff. If you're not, go use like CLion or something. Yeah, what are you doing if you're using that for anything? I'm not C, QT. Yeah. That's all my massive extent of IDEs I've used. Now you see why I don't like them because I've used too many. That's kind of impressive.

Starting point is 01:23:20 I would get so, I get so like, I get like kind of, I don't know about you so like I get like kind of I don't know about you but I get frustrated it's like I just find like when I just would I just be faster in Vim and I'd rather at this point I'd honestly I'd be probably faster just doing it in Vim and then copy pasting it over well I didn't discover Vim until I think my like third year or something like that so I'd already done most of these IDEs by that point yeah i had uh yeah i discovered it at like a weird time so i've done like most of my courses with besides uh c and c plus plus which uh surprisingly i've still had to use for like operating systems courses and stuff

Starting point is 01:23:57 like that so yeah it sounds like your degree sort of had a uh a much lower level approach than mine did yeah i think it's just because like yeah like the engineer well also like i It sounds like your degree sort of had a much lower level approach than mine did. Yeah, I think it's just because like, yeah, like the engineering. Well, also like I, because I took like an extra year of electrical engineering. So I like you basically you have like your second level course is supposed to be like object oriented course that you take. And so like if you were in software engineering, you'd just do Java. But since I was in electrical engineering and you use C++, and I guess I also use MATLAB for other classes.

Starting point is 01:24:33 And so I learned that sort of stuff. So it sounds more low level, but I guess I feel like you guys did an operating system. Oh, my goodness. Did you do one for every language? I did an AI class and use jupiter okay that's pretty fair i've only had to use jupiter for like a astronomy course i'm in right now okay yeah it's pretty all right i don't know it's not perfect it's it's cool to see like a the the notebook sort of structure that's an interesting approach but i wouldn't use it for

Starting point is 01:25:05 anything else yeah i don't i don't know how like some people like do all their work in it like uh apparently that's like super common with like physics related majors they just like they just do like all their all the programming they ever do is just in my notebook which i'm like that's insane all right uh yeah i don't know that's cool yeah there's like tons of like weird plugins too or like kurt was it is it a kernel no no kernel is like different languages that can run within it i don't know too much about it i only did python with it so i don't know exactly yeah i only had to use python with it um it was pretty neat i like like it. It's kind of like that R Markdown sort of thing. Not that I've really used R Markdown very much.

Starting point is 01:25:49 I used it once when I was like, oh man, Luke Smith is the coolest guy in the world and he uses this. I should totally like this. And then I was like, I have no use for this. If you want to get some R Markdown shilling, go watch some of Brian's older content before he was doing Obsidian stuff. Yeah. I remember I was like, I was like around the time that i like i was like i was like pretty

Starting point is 01:26:10 much like at least like i feel like brian well i guess brian definitely knows me from like that uh that guy that like at the time i'd like show up to all of his live streams and i just feel like oh nice because it worked out perfect i like had a class right before and then it's just like oh nice background noise of someone talking about Linux. Now that's not the same sort of thing, but still a cool guy. Yeah, now he's, I don't know how he's managed to like, there's channels like this where they just like hyper specialize on one thing. I don't know how you wouldn't go insane doing that.

Starting point is 01:26:42 Like he's making content on one, for all you you guys that like i don't know if you guys watch brian stuff but he has like videos pretty much exclusively on like obsidian which is like a note-taking program seems pretty cool but i'm like holy holy how do you like i just feel like that's like the sort of thing actually you made a video recently where you or i think like you mentioned it in like a recent podcast or something you're like saying like people are saying that like linux isn't a content like that and i was like i would think that about this one program but apparently not there's just always something new to talk about apparently it's pretty crazy yeah i i don't know he seems to be slightly breaking out a little bit um now he's looking at uh anki and obsidian together it's like okay sure

Starting point is 01:27:28 i remember he was like really into like anki sort of stuff when he was like earlier on so i was like oh i guess that kind of makes sense but i feel like also it's just like if you just combine everything with it you'll never run out of content. The Linux content farm thing is, that's such a nonsense statement. Like, yeah, of course it's a content farm. Like, what are you talking about? Yeah. Linux itself is literally like, honestly, if you just read the source,

Starting point is 01:27:56 like if you just did every video, you'd probably never run out of topic. You'd probably just keep going. I don't know. Yeah, Discord. This is why I don't use Discord that much anymore i was gonna say you could just spend like your entire life just reading the like linux source code for every video and you like word for word just read it like if bracket i just go through that and you probably never run there'll probably always be some change to the file and you're like all right version two time to update you can just do that yes you could but you could also make videos people want to watch

Starting point is 01:28:30 yeah i don't know how popular that would hold up actually i've seen like some people that do like analyses of like open source projects like there was like a guy who did that for like a bunch of haskell programs so that was pretty neat but i don't program in haskell and i don't know so i didn't watch them very much yeah someone asked me to do something like that like I don't really have the expertise to make that an interesting video yeah that's that would be pretty difficult to do unless you were like an expert in the language and the topic and the use case yeah the place where I think I'm I'm doing a decent job at is comparing and contrasting existing applications. So there is hundreds of RSS applications.

Starting point is 01:29:12 I can look at them and actually make some sort of judgment on whether that's actually something worth trying out because I've seen like, here's what all of the other competition out there actually does. That's sort of what I'm doing with video editors right now now i think oh dude i was sorry go ahead i was gonna say i think i just if that makes more sense for me to focus on rather than trying and doing something where i know that it's just not gonna work for me totally i was gonna say uh speaking of video editors i like recently so like a while ago, because before I

Starting point is 01:29:46 was running a laptop that didn't have OpenGL support or OpenGL after 1.0 or something like that. So just old as hell. And then I recently upgraded, and I started playing around with using Blender as a video editor. And I saw your video on it, and I was like, man, I thought you were. And I read the thumbnail, and I was like, he like he switched he made it it must be worth it and then i was like nope he

Starting point is 01:30:09 doesn't like it i hate it it's so apparently it's getting a rewrite so maybe it'll be good oh really is that like supposed to that's pretty sweet i like uh sorry go ahead it would it would be like the blender part the blender part is amazing be like the Blender part. The Blender part is amazing. I like the, I don't like how Blender does its like moving panels around, but that's fine. They're like the Blender hot keying everything under the sun. That's cool. I like that.

Starting point is 01:30:37 That's useful. But it's really slow. It's really slow. And it doesn't let me import multiple audio tracks. Yeah, that would be probably an issue. Honestly, my minimum requirement is let me import multiple audio tracks. I record two of them. I want to import both of them. Like, what do you mean?

Starting point is 01:31:01 Like, it doesn't let you import two audio tracks for one video? So if I drop in, like, this podcast. So so right now my voice and your voice are being recorded on separate tracks if i drop it into blender it just ignores yours and just has mine there oh oh that's terrible okay i could see that being i have not faced that yet because i don't have i haven't done any videos where anyone else that's talking through a different way i usually put my desktop audio on a separate track as well something I saw that was actually really sweet um that I thought was really sweet and I was actually talking about it recently discord because I was like somebody somebody hopefully does this but there's like a setup

Starting point is 01:31:37 that people have done I have not played with jack like at all but there's people that have like set up it set up a blender to use jack to use our door which is like i don't know if you know what our door is yeah i saw you post that link uh do you have that link around still probably probably not i'm on hand i'll see it i'll find it uh but it uh oh there it is. I found it. Cool. Sorry. I need a better solution where I don't break the cameras when I open up my Discord window. Yeah, fair enough.

Starting point is 01:32:13 All right, there we go. So basically the way that it does it is it actually, Jack, to basically sync up Blender and Ardour to allow you to do like your audio editing in, which like, I don't know if you like have the same opinion I do, but like audio editing in, which I don't know if you have the same opinion I do. But audio editing in any of the Linux video editors is just like, it's terrible. Just do it in post. But I was like, this is perfect.

Starting point is 01:32:36 This probably is not perfect. But I was like, this is pretty sweet. And I was like, maybe. And then when you were saying that, I was like, maybe this would be a pretty cool option. Probably overkill considering. But I was like maybe and then when you were saying that i was like maybe this would be a pretty cool option probably overkill uh considering but i was like oh kind of neat yeah i've never looked into ardor it looks like a really cool app for people who do any audio production work though yeah i know that um uh on for users on his uh on his channel

Starting point is 01:33:04 you know who that is yeah yeah i've looked at his stuff before one of my buddies was like I know that Anfa uses it on his channel. You know who that is? Yeah. Yeah, I've looked at his stuff before. One of my buddies was like, he was like, I'd give Linux a try, but right now he uses like FL Studio. Is there anything like it? And I was like, sure, I don't know.

Starting point is 01:33:16 I'll look. And then I looked into it. And it seems like Ardour seemed pretty sweet. It seemed like it was getting lots of development and stuff. But it seems like the devs are like super against people that are like music producers that aren't like doing like guitar and live instrument stuff uh like don't quote me on that but i've like seen like lots of topics of people just being like don't use it like people they just aren't interested in it um like you know i don't know if this is actually true i i don't want to quote like uh what's his name ofa is that how you say his name?

Starting point is 01:33:46 Amfa. Amfa. He made a video on that. And then I was like, oh, I see. And I've seen other comments about it. But also, it seems like a lot of people do that. So whether or not it's really going to matter, who knows? But I was like, I don't know, man.

Starting point is 01:34:01 Maybe give it a try. But I wouldn't give up a program that you paid for and switch to a whole another operating system for something that I might be uh completely wrong on yeah yeah well you could always just give it a try in like a VM or something yeah for sure I feel like maybe he'd give it a try like the big thing is that like he like makes he always is like oh but I want better like he has like like I don't know eventually when you're like making like a lot of audio production you like run into system issues like my dad also does um does audio like uh like makes music and stuff like that uh weird coincidence actually i'll mention that uh but uh they like eventually you just run into like system requirements of like running all these synthesizers at the same time and stuff and then like i'm sure if i had him

Starting point is 01:34:43 trying that out in a vm he'd just be like this is awful ah that's fair yeah but uh trying things out in a vm sometimes is a pretty good option especially for like people that are like i don't know i don't want to use linux because it doesn't know and it's like dude libre office is almost always fine not that i use libre office very much i uh my my worst vm experience was actually i've got two of them one was doing ios development um i did that in a vm when i was running linux uh not fun very slow it was on my laptop that i uh it's actually not around here it wasn't on this desktop this desktop would have been fine laptop not so much uh i think it had like four gigs of ram it had an i7 but it was a laptop i7 i think it was like a four core or

Starting point is 01:35:30 something so not the best running running mac os with the dual core is not exactly a good experience yeah i believe it especially like yeah vms just suck it all up well i think it got to the point where my my host system didn't really have the performance to actually run the vm properly that was just not a not a good experience at all yeah but my other one my other one which was way worse was back in no 20 i don't know what year it was uh it was a couple years ago back my first year of uni i was using a 2012 macbook it wasn't 2012 it was i think like 2018 or something so it's already getting fairly old oh well that's not too bad if it was 2012 actually to be fair 2012 macbook pro so

Starting point is 01:36:18 not as bad could be worse um yeah and i needed to run what is it Microsoft SQL Management Studio or whatever the hell it's called oh I've heard about that it's like someone else was telling me about that I had to use that for the class so I had to run a Windows VM

Starting point is 01:36:39 on my 2012 MacBook Pro which barely ran anyway and then running a VM on it was just even worse. That was not a fun class. I think it took like 10 minutes to open up Management Studio. I've just like

Starting point is 01:36:57 accepted that if I want to use anything that relies on Windows or macOS, I either just have to like, I refuse to use a VM or anything windows or mac os like i either just have to like i refuse i refuse to use a vm or anything i will just find another i'll literally have to use it and then i'll just use the lab computers uh which is extreme but i'm just like i don't care i don't want to do this i can't put myself through it uh last year i had a uh course where i had to use unity i had to use a very specific older version of unity and i was was like, I could get this working on Linux

Starting point is 01:37:26 or I could just buy an SSD for like $50 and install it on that. That's what I did. Dude, why don't... What is with universities and not upgrading, updating their like freaking education system? To be fair with this one, this was my honors project

Starting point is 01:37:42 and I was continuing development of an existing project. Okay. So I can accept this for this one i was um this was my honors project and i was continuing development of an existing project okay so i i can accept this for this one but my uh my vr course we had to use like the 20 2019 version of unity or something weird oh okay so that's so it's still not that great yeah no all right i guess what yeah i guess it depends on the year, but it was last year. I assume it was in 2019. Okay. It could have been worse. I could have been using

Starting point is 01:38:10 a really old version of ASP.NET like my web dev course or the original version of Angular. Yeah. Which, not fun. AngularJS. Like, what else is called still called angular js not just angular

Starting point is 01:38:26 oh no for sure i uh i can't i at least for me like whenever my university my university does not update some things like i feel like all universities don't like especially if you like take any like physics courses like whatever physics lab you're taking like they are like whatever it is it's probably old as heck and they just have refused to update that one lab until uh until it suddenly stops working at least like that's been my experience it's like running like windows xp just for us to use this one random program but uh yeah so whatever that stuff happens i'm always just like what's the point just update it please that is one of the nice things about the uni uh being very dependent on

Starting point is 01:39:07 max so they sort of have to update the max yeah yeah actually honestly programs that are like because mac just changes like some it's it's even worse now apple doesn't like you talking bad about Macs, apparently. Okay, now it's picking me up. I was like, it stopped picking me up for a sec. All right, I'll just say what I was going to say before it stops picking up. I was just going to say, like anything that relies on Mac

Starting point is 01:39:36 is like probably going to be like updated more often just because Mac loves to just break whatever API you rely on. They're like, nope, changing it. Got to rewrite this entire API. At least my tiny amount of Mac experience felt like that. You know, I definitely know the same sort of experience. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:39:59 Let's see. What else do we have on here? Oh, I was looking up topics last night and i just looked up linux news on uh on google just just because that seemed like a decent way to find topics um yeah some of the things that like it says like people also ask you've got like is linux going to die is linux losing popularity uh does linux have a future does anyone use links anymore uh jesus but my my favorite one is there's a post from 12 years ago called uh why do linux users hate windows i'm gonna send you this link because the uh the 10

Starting point is 01:40:38 reasons this person gives are amazing oh it's a list i thought it was a question no no they they provided this windows user provided a reason why linux users don't like windows users do you what do you hate do you hate windows or do you consider yourself an person i don't run it myself but i'm very much of the mindset like if you need to run it or you want to run it like i get that a lot of games don't run properly on linux that's fine if you want to run you want to run windows that's cool or if you need to use it for uni or work or whatever like there's there's reasons why like sure gimp is good but photoshop is the industry standard yeah exactly i feel like it's like i feel like i figured i'd ask before we read these uh these reasons are amazing i love it

Starting point is 01:41:34 so reason number 10 linux users want to be seen as high society out of the mainstream and unique wow that's a strong point to start on want to be seen as high society, out of the mainstream, and unique? That's a strong point to start on. That is a... You know, in some cases I feel like that's not wrong. It's definitely not wrong for some people. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:41:58 Linux users need having... Linux users have a need to support their OS choice, especially when a new OS is released to retain the nearly non-existent customer base, or pull those still on the fence into trying Linux instead of a new Windows flavor.

Starting point is 01:42:15 I don't know what a Windows flavor is, by the way. Windows doesn't have flavors. Windows has releases, but sure. Not to go off topic but did you hear that there's like this is that uh they're now they've like got like their windows that's like tech there's like a new windows 10 that's like the last windows 10 i heard that i was like

Starting point is 01:42:35 well i'm not really or not the last windows 10 the last windows and i was like you know what makes sense might as well make windows a rolling release at this point there's like it basically their point yeah like you're getting new release there's new updates all the time system breaks pretty much a rolling release well they don't charge for windows either at this point like you can run it and it doesn't care it's just like oh buy a key and you don't ever have to buy a key yeah exactly um yeah that i think they still charge corporate customers though that's the only people they actually charge for money everyone else they just harvest all your data for sure also like the

Starting point is 01:43:13 big thing is that like also making it free like avoids like the whole like issue of uh chrome os like taking over like schools if they make it free at least then the chances of like schools like actually because like they if you want to keep something around you got to get kids in you got to get the kids uh because like when you get like kids into it yeah yeah i was like i'm sure someone could chop this up into like uh i could get like totally character assassinated after uh i'm just kidding um but uh that's like it's true though like if they if you get a kid kids that rely on it and then when they become adults and they're working at some place you give them like i don't know you give them some program that they haven't used before like even if that program that

Starting point is 01:43:54 they've used before that sucked like they're just like i know it don't make me use something new if i don't have to microsoft word certification courses yeah exactly it's like if you have to like learn something new it's a hassle that's where the hate it like people aren't don't want to give it a try and it makes sense people don't have to use it so if you don't have to learn something new and you don't care enough why why do it yeah yeah um well the advantage of chromos does have is really cheap devices oh yeah and it runs gen 2 so you know you're higher oh yeah that's true obviously as stated here here's where they get fun linux isn't very entertaining you need to do something when bored of entering command strings like fair enough yeah sure typing the terminal isn't a fun experience i guess

Starting point is 01:44:48 is windows fun i didn't ever consider windows fun i sort of just use it as a tool i like the idea of like when you're bored like you just like like it's not like why linux users so it's like imagine if you're just bored and you're just like, oh my goodness. I say like, I like how it's like 10 reasons Linux users hate Windows. Not why they say they hate Windows. So instead of like, instead of being bored and like telling your friend that you hate Windows, instead you're just bored and you're just sitting around like, oh, can't stand that Windows.

Starting point is 01:45:22 Oh, just really gets me. Or entering command strings is so boring. It makes them think that others listen to them for advice on an OS choice. That is pretty true. Yeah, I'll give you that one. That's the reason that I use it. But it's funny because it's like, when people ask me about this sort of thing,

Starting point is 01:45:43 I'm like, I don't know. I could tell you to use this thing that i oh it cut out for a sec so it does show it on your end when it happens then yeah that's why i'm like i'll like stop all of a sudden i'll just be like maybe it's a thing about maybe it's a thing about like you joining my call or something i might try that next time where i have the other person start the call because i record my voice locally so it might not be a problem then i think the reason for it is because of the uh like my uh like when you have i've had this happen before where it's like if your gain on this is like too low then like it doesn't think

Starting point is 01:46:23 you're talking loud enough to like it's like basically treating it like a noise gate almost oh and if it doesn't think you've started talking because you can like lower how long the time is before it starts like picking up your voice like a noise gate uh so i think that's usually what the cause is maybe which is which is one of the negatives of using Discord. Let's see. Number six, it's Linux. They should have a parrot logo for the amount of repetitive, outdated reasons they have for using Linux that don't apply to modern OSes.

Starting point is 01:46:56 Linux would be quickly forgotten without the parrots. Except the entire server space is dominated by Linux. That's sort of a... Oh, that's an outdated... Yeah, it's very outdated. It's almost more relevant now than it's ever been. Because as we know, everyone uses Windows servers. Yeah, exactly.

Starting point is 01:47:17 Really, everybody's using AWS. And Macs are kind of huge as a server because you have to run it on uh apple hardware yeah it's like i don't know like there are places that use windows on server but like i feel like it's just so like especially like like i don't know i feel like a lot of people that are doing that are like around the time stacks were like barely popular and now like a lamp stack is like pretty dated i think at least like that's at least what i've heard i'm no expert i'm not sure what the the cool what the cool new stack is right now yeah it's uh no stack pure uh no server or whatever that's a that's a topic we can talk about fucking no server

Starting point is 01:47:58 cloud do we do everything in the cloud don't even worry about anything that exists servers are not real guys we don't need them yeah exactly it's always no need to follow this sort of stuff just leave it all to like either an admin or to just run it through the browser and just hope that there's no no limitations that you'll eventually run into when your website's just slow as heck. Not to bring up that constant statement of how bloated, or bloated. Like everyone loves to talk about how JavaScript is slow and stuff like that. It's like, oh, let's get over this. Let's talk about syntax.

Starting point is 01:48:37 JavaScript's a good one to talk about. Yeah. Oh, God. That's like, you know, that's one of the, I was saying before, people get hung up on syntax being weird and stuff. I feel like JavaScript did do some pretty questionable yeah oh god that's like you know that's one of the i was saying before people get hung up on syntax being weird and stuff dude i feel like javascript did like did do some pretty questionable choices like equals equals should not be equals equals equals equals is just like that's a pretty

Starting point is 01:48:55 easy one to pick out but well this is weird arithmetic stuff that happens like if you do uh so uh i think it's a list plus an object equals one or something weird like that there's just like so many there's a lot of weird like i think it makes it's funny because it's like like sometimes i'll think to myself like this makes sense in theory because i don't know if you've ever seen like those like charts of like what goes together to create what result and stuff like that for javascript and it's like honestly some of it seems so unintuitive but at least eventually you start to see a pattern but like at that point it's like do i really want to count on everybody that ever looks at my code knowing this entire like diagram of how this works probably not there are parts of it that

Starting point is 01:49:36 make perfect sense like i think if you do a number plus an empty string it turns into a string that makes sense i get that yeah and like the same so i think it's like a lot of stuff that's like an empty something is like equal to zero oh or or not my my favorite one is if you do uh nan equals equals equals nan they're not the same thing yeah because it treats them as like yeah it treats them as like two like separate not in objects or or like not a not a not but like uh yeah yeah exactly you have to do like is nan to see if it's actually a uh if the number is actually dan um yeah it's like a sql sort of thing too isn't it you have to do that with sql okay now i guess at least earth at least crossover we are now back to point seven so so we went 7-6-7.

Starting point is 01:50:26 Oh, what the heck? So, mum said that 386 is fine. Maybe it's a Windows. Sorry? Sorry, go ahead. I was going to say, maybe it's a Windows versioning joke. Maybe. I don't know. Mum said that 386 is fine. Just because all the other kids have better PCs, it doesn't mean they have to jump off the bridge too.

Starting point is 01:50:43 Now eat your potatoes. I don't know what this point of view is. You might... Is it the joke that everyone on Linux likes to run ThinkPads? Oh, maybe. That would kind of make sense, I guess.

Starting point is 01:51:02 This was kind of... Well, this was 12 years ago as well, so the ThinkPads that people run now were new hardware back then. Yeah, I guess that's pretty fair. That's weird. When you have... Now we're back to point six again. When you have no social life and no skills beyond Penguin commands,

Starting point is 01:51:21 you need a little something to make you feel mainstream and included again. Penguin on that's fair enough i don't have it social skills are overrated yeah i use superior so yeah that's why i talk into a camera i'm actually a lot more social i'm a lot more social with a camera in front of me. I don't know what it is. Maybe I just like being the center of attention. Fair enough. But in person, I don't. Like, leave me alone. I, like, have so much, like, yeah. I always have to, like, redo.

Starting point is 01:51:54 I'm, like, so bad at talking in front of a camera. That's why I feel like a lot of my, like, especially so robotic. Well, you might notice that my, my like 10 or so minute videos if you look at the uh clock in the top right hand corner it uh it goes a lot further than the length of the video

Starting point is 01:52:12 usually takes me about an hour to record a 12 minute video oh yeah I spend like forever on my videos I'll like bit like so many times for like no reason almost I'll be like oh man I was so close

Starting point is 01:52:24 I'll like accidentally mispronounce like one thing and i'll be like gotta do it again and then some things i'll leave it as a mispronunciation it's like you know what whoever it triggers they can deal with i've spent enough time i'll leave it like if i bump my mic or something or i there were times i'll like knock something over i'll just leave it in the video just because i think it's funny but if it's something like a complete break a sentence then i'll cut that there's only so many times that can be left in and it doesn't make a absolutely horrible video yeah for sure i feel like especially like some things i'll some things you'll like notice you're saying it and you'll just like i've come to camp back out this is going into the final cut yeah yeah for sure my outro i don't care outro is a first take every time

Starting point is 01:53:12 yeah fair enough i love the like uh like that you i love that you do like the thing yeah it's just like oh very very you love my spirit i i don't know what started that i did something to do for my outro and that's just what happened it's like it's like somewhat cringe but it's like an it's an enjoyable amount of cringe i like in a bad way i could just go like uh full youtube like hey guys remember to like and subscribe that probably clipped maybe i don't know if that clipped i'm sorry uh it's okay but yeah hey guys remember to like and subscribe and buy all my merch and subscribe my patreon and give me money on my only fans or whatever else other things i have you gotta do like the yeah like the

Starting point is 01:53:56 what's up guys well done you gotta turn your contrast or not your contrast your saturation at mass all that sort of stuff yellow big words big face all that sort of stuff let's do the uh like the 4 a.m uh the i called someone at 4 a.m channels why is it always 4 a.m i called i called linus torvalds for a yeah You won't believe what happened. He didn't answer. It was a real show. He's an old man. He goes to sleep early. That's a great idea for a channel. If someone wants to do that,

Starting point is 01:54:36 just start parodying the 4AM channels. Honestly, I feel like the idea of a full parody channel would just be like for... Well, I guess a parody channel exists. Maybe not just parodying 4AM channels guess a parody channel exists maybe not just parodying for it just parody all like the dumb youtuber like cringe stuff but i can't think of one that does that i think like there's there's parody stuff like individual people but i can't think of one where it's just like parodying the like general trends that are going on on youtube yeah no for sure i feel like those sort of things i guess it's kind

Starting point is 01:55:06 of hard for like youtube i feel like you're just counting on somebody i've seen watching other content to even get your content but like there's some things like some parodies are just like very very relatable all right uh yeah anyway yeah the thing we're back to uh what we have to oh uh some people actually think being a geek is a good thing they need to think they are in an elite club the only geeks would join and others are mere noobs spelt with zeros for context this was posted in 2009 where putting zeros in things wasn't really weird. No, it's like super... Also, being a nerd was... It wasn't cool to be a nerd back in 2009 either. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:55:54 Is it cool now? I'm sure. I guess so. I don't know if I get clout from being a nerd. I think it's sort of that like playing games and doing things like that it's just like very normal now like when i was like when i was growing up still like there's still a lot of people who just didn't play games now i feel like every kid who's gonna like is just be like oh yeah i i played

Starting point is 01:56:16 fortnight when i was younger like i don't know if like that's sort of just very very normal now um maybe too much so. Because I feel like there's going to be a lot of people who just don't bother with sports as they grow up. Yeah. Honestly, this might be like a controversial statement, but I feel like what World of Warcraft was like back when... It's like pretty much what people treat Fortnite like now.

Starting point is 01:56:41 People just get so into Fortnite. But I feel like... Time dedication time. Right, right. I mean, not how people treat it, treat fortnite like now like people just get so into fortnite but i feel like oh time time dedication time right right i mean not not how people are freed it because i feel like people uh treat the idea of being into world of warcraft as super dorky actually people still do now yeah i feel like it's still pretty dorky oh yeah if you play well i play world of warcraft for a reference not anymore but i did before somebody attacks that uh statement but like even people who are really sporty like they'll probably play fifa or something like that yeah oh my god is is fifa really big

Starting point is 01:57:11 in australia my friends so my friends from like the uk are like super super into it uh and i have no idea how like you know fair enough you enjoy what you like but like some of them are just so into it and i'm like fair enough man do you guys like like soccer is pretty neat too like playing a sports game is like neat i'm just like surprised that people can be so into it like i can't imagine being like stoked for the next madden release like oh man you cannot you would not believe how sick it's gonna be you wouldn't be super stoked for the next uh sprint canoe release, that'll never exist. I guess some Canadians get kind of stoked on the new NHL release, but honestly, I don't

Starting point is 01:57:54 really know anybody. Wait, I didn't even know that was a thing. You didn't know? No. You've never played a hockey game? No. A hockey game's like a thing outside of Canada, actually. I've never really thought about that.

Starting point is 01:58:03 I didn't know that was a thing. I'm sure they exist, like now that i'm saying that i'm like wait a second why would people play why would people buy this probably not i guess there's aussie rules games right uh yeah i don't know if they are still being made AFL Fair enough The last one was in 2017 Oh okay So not No there was one last year

Starting point is 01:58:32 Wait what I'm sorry how do I not know this existed What does it I know like AFL Evolution 2 Oh my god look at this face I'm going gonna send you this just pause it on the

Starting point is 01:58:47 just right at the start and just look at this face oh my god what is that? I don't know like you know respect respect to them for uh not not just like replacing it and and not just like faking it at least they uh used actually man that wasn't probably not a good call yeah that's hilarious i think most people here would much rather just

Starting point is 01:59:22 go outside and play some play some footy rather than what playing a video game but fifa's big for some reason yeah that's what i don't get like at least at least with nhl it like makes sense in my head because like you know hockey's huge in canada um obviously i feel like everyone kind of knows that uh but um but like at least like in canada like it's summer eventually so like you can't it, but I feel like like you could play soccer year round pretty much. Yeah. Like there's no reason you can't play it.

Starting point is 01:59:49 Like, I feel like a lot of people that are really into NHL are like into it in the summer because like, they just don't do anything in the summer. And besides like, you know, there are people that play like hockey in the summer and like indoor rinks and stuff, but it's like, I feel like those are like more of like the more dedicated people. Sorry to anybody in Canada that disagrees with that opinion. because i guess there are just people that are like dude everyone is super into hockey um but i'm pretty trash at it so one thing i'm sad there's not more of um is a v8 supercar racing games so there's two actually sorry there's three big sports in

Starting point is 02:00:21 australia we have cricket no one besides india cares about cricket um so usually like the the big games are india versus uh india versus australia and that's that's all you get because that's the only teams that exist um there's a couple other little ones here and there but that those the most ones are most of what exists um then we also have afl because every country needs its own football league and yeah for some reason yeah i don't know why and we have v8 supercar racing which is basically take nascar and make it less shit uh they drive around like a track that isn't an oval they have to like make turns and stuff oh so it's like uh it's like an f1 mix with NASCAR. Yeah, it's F1 with

Starting point is 02:01:05 basically done-up street cars. Like, really done-up. That's pretty sweet. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's pretty much like every racing video game. Yeah, it would basically just be a graduate game with a different skin. But I still want it. Yeah, that sounds sick. Let's see. I forgot what number we were on.

Starting point is 02:01:24 We're on number four now. Now that security and viruses are not a horrific issue with Windows, they need to wave their penguin flippers a bit more often in order to not be forgotten. 2008 was before the big

Starting point is 02:01:40 stuff with what's the word I'm thinking of the one where they make you pay to get your data back oh like wanna cry is that yeah yeah what's that type of virus called uh i don't know i don't remember anyway this was before a lot of those big viruses came out and it was what would have been the main uh version of windows at that point windows 7 i'm pretty sure windows 7 pretty bad virus issues i feel like honestly like viruses were not really that great until like windows well i can't really say windows 8 because honestly i feel like windows

Starting point is 02:02:22 8 wasn't around long enough to really have but. But Windows 10 is like, I feel like, you know, not to give Windows credit because we got to hate Windows. Yeah, absolutely. But I feel like Windows 10 is like pretty good for bugs. Like, I mean, not bugs, for viruses. Like, it's not too bad. Well, having built-in virus detection is a good thing. It should have been there years ago.

Starting point is 02:02:41 Yeah, I honestly, like, I was like, this is just stupid that they never put this in well i think they built it into the windows 7 at one point right but it just was shit i mean bad or yeah i guess it's fine to say shit um i maybe maybe towards the end of its life it wasn't there at the start i'm pretty sure i could easily be wrong on that yeah i could be as well i'm like i'm very kind of like i wonder what they consider horrific issues like they're like it's not a horrific issue because i'm logged in at least use the internet like what are they considering a horrific issue like have you never looked at your parents

Starting point is 02:03:20 computer that has 10 different uh bars in their browser like what are you talking about not a horrific issue or like somebody goes like hey could you look at computer like it's it's going really slow and you like type hit a key and it just takes like four seconds to go in and you're like i don't i don't know if this is there's there's something wrong here and i'm having a feeling it's because you have like your entire search history is pirates bay uh which like you know what not gonna comment on piracy but like you know people look if you're gonna do it don't be an idiot please audit what you're downloading if it says dot exe don't don't download it yeah don't search uh video like don't search free video game and then just like download it and then just, like, download it,

Starting point is 02:04:06 and then immediately, like, hit execute. Like, it's just like, it's not gonna, and then when I ask for admin privileges, maybe don't. Just don't do that part. Probably not a good call. Probably a good plan. Let's see, we're at three now. The secret world has been taken over by those who

Starting point is 02:04:22 have the income and resources to buy higher end hardware, so Windows runs well for most people now. What? I don't know if I'd really argue that, though. Like, I feel like, because they're trying to say, like, people that use Linux are, like, broke as heck. I guess so. And the people on their audience, they had established earlier that everyone on Linux also runs a 386.

Starting point is 02:04:46 Yeah. Well, I feel like their argument is like, oh, but Windows runs... Like, their argument is that, like, people on Linux... But, like, Windows runs so slow compared to Linux. You have to buy high-end hardware to make Windows not run like shit. So what if we ran Linux on it, then? Yeah.

Starting point is 02:05:02 Like, I feel like even if... Also, like, you can buy expensive hardware and it's still going to not run great. I had a Surface Pro when I first switched and no matter what you try, Windows still uses over a gigabyte and a half of memory as soon as you open anything. I actually do like the Surface.

Starting point is 02:05:17 That's a cool device. Yeah, it's pretty sweet. I don't recommend it. If you are going to run Linux and you want a Surface-like device, don't buy it if you if you are gonna run linux and you want a surface like device don't buy a surface because you need to run a custom ah and when you've never used linux before i don't it's a mess to understand because obviously you don't know anything no offense like to whoever's watching this uh but it is like it is honestly a sweet device i just wish that linux was like better supported

Starting point is 02:05:47 on it yeah yeah but uh it is it's pretty sweet honestly i know a lot of people are like also like that sort of stuff yeah yeah yeah uh so point two linux no longer has an edge on windows in most cases of speed and spill of the they can't be forgotten. But your last point, you just established that to make Windows not run like shit, you need to buy high-end hardware. Where the heck is this guy that wrote this article? I want to talk to him. Well, his name is Oz Media

Starting point is 02:06:16 and he has an Australian flag. So I'm guessing somewhere in Australia. I'll find him. Yeah, you should add him on Twitter. Get him on the podcast. I'd be kind of hilarious honestly when we talk to you about this blog post you made 12 years ago i know you probably don't remember making this blog post but i i need to get in contact with you this is priority number one wait are there five pages of this are the roster comments okay i was like holy holy, what is going on?

Starting point is 02:06:46 And the number one reason Linux users hate Windows, Linux conventions are the only place they could possibly justify wearing a tuxedo, or more commonly, a tuxedo shirt. What? Does anyone go to Linux conventions?

Starting point is 02:07:03 Like at all? I only know people who go there because they were invited there like i think the only uh like most people that go to linux conventions are like enterprise related stuff like i feel like i i think like there are like really cool ones like i think actually australia it's like their linux conference i don't know if you know the one uh the only one i can think of is like i can't even think of that many tech conferences here uh i think there is one called like linux conf au oh yeah yeah yeah i know the one you're talking about yeah that one that one's actually like pretty sweet i've watched like a lot they've released from i haven't seen anything about it. I think that's in, um, usually I think it's in Sydney.

Starting point is 02:07:47 I have no idea. Yeah. I'm not, I also don't know much about Australia's layout. Uh, lots of desert, lots of death. Fair enough.

Starting point is 02:07:56 Uh, Linux comp, AU. Well, last year it would have been online. Um, yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:08:03 If you ever want to sit down and watch long presentations those ones are pretty good i feel like there's like some that are pretty just be like whoever wants to come and fuck come on go on stage we'll give you a mic um i actually got invited to talk at um uh vimconf last year but i didn't end up doing it i was like that's kind of sweet i remember i watched that episode of uh because then you mentioned that with what's his name um kai henrys yeah kai henrys was like why didn't i get invited i was like i don't know why you'd expect to be invited man you don't make videos on vim very much i don't know why i got invited i just make videos on vim plugins like every couple of weeks i feel like there's like a limit on how

Starting point is 02:08:45 many people they can like find to like pull up yeah like uh like that being said they the most recent one that was on i think that was the most recent one was actually pretty sweet like pretty interesting uh interesting talks yeah yeah um but uh yeah um yeah that's the whole list uh let's see wait did i close it i think i closed it bring it back open um i think the first comment is someone going through

Starting point is 02:09:16 all of the points and just making really bad points about all of the points uh oh you just scrolled down. I'm looking at it. I was like, oh my god. So, limited users want to be seen as high society... Oh, no, don't go there.

Starting point is 02:09:35 Oh, okay, there's people in... Okay, this is how old this point is. Or this post is. There are people talking about people running Vista and XP still. Oh, yeah. Oh, man. this post is there are people talking about people running a vista and xp still oh yeah oh man this might be this might be a bit more dated than uh yeah a little bit oh i love this now this first comment's kind of agreeing with it not everyone is a noob not everyone there are lots of lots of freaking jerks out there

Starting point is 02:10:06 fair enough honestly i feel like uh i feel like everybody that i feel like most people that run linux like pretty seriously can admit that they're a bit of a dork even if it's uh even if it's like endearingly like i'm not like i feel like i think of it as like not in like one of the it's cool to be nerdy thing but i feel like it's like a thing where it's like you know what i just enjoy this one thing and uh it's just uh hopefully not something that is really that big of a deal well most of the people i've met um through doing stuff like this have been pretty chill people like i've i've met a couple of like i think the uh the linux user jerks thing is very much overblown

Starting point is 02:10:46 like there are some very loud very annoying people but the vast majority of people are pretty chill yeah like there's like I chat in your discord like a and like there's lots of like there's some people that are like exactly what you described but I feel like that's just like a loud minority

Starting point is 02:11:02 like you said especially like a lot of it we've had our first year of uh interesting characters come through that discord for sure yeah but uh but you know it is what it is it's in every community the chances of having like something like that be in your community is just higher and higher like the more because i feel like people like that like they don't want a big community because then they don't have anybody to listen to what they're talking about yeah the one of the original guys who was um sort of making the discord active um one of his things was like when i was trying to get rid of him uh i never actually banned him he's he can come back

Starting point is 02:11:39 whenever he wants um it'd be funny i i can of want him to he'll get bullied now uh if he's listening he knows exactly who he is but at the time he was like oh if i leave then nobody will be talking here i am the reason why this community is alive and when he left like that's sort of when people started talking yeah no i feel like i feel like also like i feel like it's like those sort of people are like the only reason that they're the only ones talking like like it's not like like also like the community could be really small but i feel like it's just like if i opened up a chat and i just saw like someone shit posting the whole time i just feel like i don't want to deal with this. If you see someone just making Terry Davis quotes,

Starting point is 02:12:28 talking about the CIA people, I'm not going to say it. Just look up Terry Davis CIA and you'll find exactly what I'm talking about. If that's the first thing you see. I know exactly what you're talking about. Anyone listening, just look up Terry Davis. He's the Temple OS guy yeah anyone listening just look up look up terry davis uh and you he's the the temple os guy for anyone who just has no idea and he's got some uh some interesting

Starting point is 02:12:51 quotes out there that's for sure yeah i feel like uh yeah i feel like that's just like not okay i don't know i feel like it's like this sort of thing especially like i don't know i feel like some things like i don't i feel like you know what censorship is not great and the idea of it's just like uh people should be allowed to say what they want without going to jail but like saying what you want that in that sort of a way and like something that's not yours it's like well maybe maybe think a bit well my my normal thing is just keep it out of the general chat yeah like don't make it the first thing is just keep it out of the general chat. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:13:27 Like, don't make it the first thing people see when they open up the fucking server, of all things. Nah, dude. There's nothing worse than, like, opening something like that up when you're, like, I don't know, like, studying with a friend and you're like, oh, man, I'm so sorry. You're like, you don't want to acknowledge it and draw attention to it just in case they didn't see it, but you're like, they probably saw that. And it's like like sometimes it's like you open it up and you're like man i

Starting point is 02:13:47 you're like really nervous that your friend's like thinking like oh man this guy's into hate speech or something because you're like man why did this guy have to say this right right on right when i opened it up uh or just like or like post pictures that are like yikes yikesy uh those are always uh always a bit of a scare but luckily luckily there's so many things being done at home at least there's less people seeing that oh yeah how has that experience been for you because my my last year of uni was entirely at home oh dude i'm so done with it like at this point i just like i like you know it's like nice it's funny because it's like i have like one class that has like so we and like usually i'd be well actually i am pretty sick of it because it's just really time consuming but it's also like honestly at least it's a group project so at

Starting point is 02:14:33 least i get to like interact with people i'm taking courses with because i feel the most right now it's like i just don't literally i don't actually get to talk to anybody i just like we'll chat with them on discord yeah it's like or like uh like chat like over text and stuff um so it's just like honestly it's just like i kind of miss seeing people but at the same time like it's kind of nice for some courses at least yeah at least for my state we've been pretty much opened up for a couple of months now um Basically, basically no restrictions. I think there's like some, like, I think

Starting point is 02:15:07 some events have like a 500 person limit or something like that. But, and sporting events are still very restricted.

Starting point is 02:15:15 But besides that, like general life stuff, like no masks, nothing like that. You can just basically go live your life as you

Starting point is 02:15:22 always do, which has been certainly nice and the part of canada i'm in we've been in like pretty big restrictions because like our our like governing bodies decided to wait like a bit too long to like increase restriction because they're like they had like full quarantine for a bit pretty much dropped everything uh for the most part there was still like obviously some restrictions but like there was no mask policy or anything yeah um and then our cases like went through the roof and then we ended up having like the highest cases uh for those of you for those of you in canada i'm in alberta don't at me uh so we're pretty not great uh at least in our province's eyes anyways but uh

Starting point is 02:16:02 the big thing is that like now because of that it's like we're just max quarantine yeah yeah well we are like a bit better i think now you can have groups of 10 outside but like i like i was like oh man now i've gone like i had to go all through quarantine and stuff like that because of it it's like man especially when you like get your break from university you're like man i just want to hang out with friends i don't want to be stuck in my room that i've been in all year yeah yeah well with us we didn't we never really like even back at the start we never actually had mask restrictions i think we had like three days in my state a couple of months back because there was a this was sort of like a big media thing where someone had uh had lied about how they caught covid um So they went to like a pizza shop

Starting point is 02:16:46 and they said they like got it from, like from like the actual food there. And that would have been like a different strain or something. Cause that would have been like one that you can pass from like objects, a person, I don't know, something like that. And that would have been like a much bigger deal. Turns out the person actually worked there and was just, and got it like any regular person god but there was like a three

Starting point is 02:17:11 day like hard lockdown for that um but besides that because australia is naturally so big and there's just so few people here it's very easy to be away from people yeah i feel like some parts of canada it's kind of like that i feel like that like because like alberta the part that i'm from is like there's pretty much only two cities that are like mildly big and then everything else is like small town yeah yeah uh and so because of that like yeah like you know this small town people that like don't like just don't believe in things because it hasn't happened to them. So, like, I feel like a lot of the small towns are, like, COVID doesn't exist and we're, like, anti-maskers, which is, like, honestly just so disappointing. Like, it's one of those things where you're, like, man, I'm just disappointed.

Starting point is 02:17:55 Well, I sort of get it in some of those cases. Because in a lot of the small towns, they didn't have any cases there. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. small towns they didn't have any cases there yeah yeah exactly that's kind of sort of thing where it's like and then they were just like oh there was just like a big like anti-mask statement and stuff like that which is why we ended up uh going way too long without like any regulations that we should have uh but yeah so it's like the sort of thing where it's like oh man this we probably should have more restrictions but we really i'm also like in one of the bigger cities

Starting point is 02:18:22 so it's like uh so it's like we we when we started rising in cases we rose very quick compared to like a small town but yeah i'm not even sure when the last time we even had a case here was i think it was like a couple of weeks ago at this point and all the cases we end up having are from um hotel quarantine because they it's been it i don't know if you guys been doing it there but hotel quarantine's been an absolute mess here is that like when you guys have like a special hotel for everybody that's coming into the okay my sister's like in new zealand and she was saying that um so that makes sense so i guess for those that don't know the the last big scare they had in Victoria, because they're useless.

Starting point is 02:19:09 It's so poorly managed. So they're not actually getting the staff working in the hotels to stay in the hotel. So they're working with the people who've come from somewhere else and may have COVID, and they're just going out in the community. Yeah. I was going to say, the reason why there was a big scare last time and they're just going out in the community yeah and that's like that's like uh sorry go ahead i was gonna say the the reason why there was a big scare last time was because one of the security

Starting point is 02:19:31 guards was also an uber driver oh dear so he caught covid spread it yeah he so he caught covid from someone in the hotel and then just went and did like did his overwork drove people around oh my goodness yeah a lot of people that i've gotten like a lot of the places that have been getting it especially old folks homes which is like literally the worst you could spread to and it's because like a lot of the people that work at old folks homes are like just underpaid people that like nurses basically that like need to work multiple jobs and they have to work at so many of those places and it's just like when you're working with people with compromised immune systems you're probably gonna catch whatever they got uh which is like that's that's been

Starting point is 02:20:13 like a pretty bad thing here but it's a lot better now yeah but if you got a lighter note on that list that'd probably be good uh let's see what what else do we have on here uh oh i do a fun one uh oh what do you have something mine's not linux related so if you oh mine's not either just something like okay all right all right uh yeah i'll give you mine mine's probably gonna be pretty quick unless yours uh but i was like i was thinking of this the other day, and for some reason I was like, I should bring it up on the podcast. What do you think things would be like if worms were picky? Do you think compost wouldn't exist?

Starting point is 02:20:55 It was one of those shower thoughts. I was like, what if the worms that you had in your compost were picky? Would you just never be able to compost your food? I figured this would be quick because i didn't think there'd be too much to say um okay um i i deal for a short clip on one of the videos i don't know what to even say about that uh it depends on what they are what what food they they eat like if they're that's what i was thinking maybe they have adapted to like eating kitchen scraps in that case you'd probably be fine because like it's like imagine like i was saying that worms have a very short lifespan so they sort of you know go through

Starting point is 02:21:52 their chain of evolution much quicker than a lot of other other creatures do so maybe maybe they would adapt quickly yeah like i was like thinking about that i was like what if like what if maybe they were like oh i don't like it when my food touches or something like that. What if you had to separate the compost? You'd have no idea. You'd just have like, my compost isn't working. You'd just have worms in there. You'd need to find non-picky worms.

Starting point is 02:22:15 I feel like there could be... I don't know where I was going with this. Maybe there would be people who specifically want picky worms because there'd be some benefit that of just having one type of food being eaten by the worms all right we could change the topic i feel like that was a i just like thought of this and you know what maybe maybe somebody will have a maybe somebody look at some enjoyment maybe sure i don't um something that might have a bit more meat to it. Have you been paying attention to Elon's Twitter,

Starting point is 02:22:49 specifically relating to his crypto market manipulation? Yes, and I love it. It's like, I don't have much money in crypto, but I have a bunch of brave rewards and that sort of stuff. And because of that, the value of those has just gone up and I've spent money on it, which is sick. I love that the part that I love about this is that people think that Elon is on the people's side.

Starting point is 02:23:15 He is playing all of you. He knows how valuable his Twitter is and he knows that he can shoot up Bitcoin 50% in value just by saying the word bitcoin yeah quick cut quick cut to that like uh that david cal is it david callan one where it's like congratulations you've played yourself david callard is that what it is or dj callan mental overflow and david callard i'm i like to think of myself as a bad like being bad with names

Starting point is 02:23:48 because uh i like to think it excuses me being uh incompetent at remembering names but um what i i honestly i wouldn't be surprised if he's doing this he'll put like i don't know a million dollars in bitcoin say something on twitter and or the other day he uh he said he was talking i think to peter schiff uh he's a big gold guy and yeah he mentioned in a tweet that bitcoin and ethereum are overvalued and they dropped 30 in value holy really i did not know that that makes actually a lot of sense because i was looking at values literally today and i was like oh man there's a big drop because I was looking at values literally today and I was like oh man there's a big drop and now it all makes sense

Starting point is 02:24:27 yep and he wanted to buy into the market that's all that happened man that's like uh you know like you know who case apologies in advance when I say the wrong name but you know like James McAfee like the guy who like originally started McAfee you might not be far off

Starting point is 02:24:44 you know the ad ad i don't know you know the ad blocking software sorry you know the ad blocking software mcafee yeah yeah yeah so like that guy i look him up online because he's like another he's a very interesting like because he's flipping weird um but anyways john mcafee all right close enough it's the thought that counts uh but anyways he like gets like apparent well i don't think it's like official but he gets like a ton of money from like new cryptocurrencies coming out and then like people pay him to say like oh this cryptocurrency is going to be worth this insane amount in one year or something like that he said he made some crazy quote like bitcoin was going to be worth which honestly at least bitcoin honestly could reach that amount i can't really

Starting point is 02:25:27 remember what he said but it was some ridiculous amount um to like boost up the value of it but he would do that for like new cryptocurrencies and then like the value of them would go up and then all the creators of the cryptocurrency would just sell all of it that they had just make like big bank and then he would make money off of it too and people like kept doing it like i think people still listen to his opinions on these things and like still buy these which is just like insane that he's just that's that's a way that's a good example of exactly what elon could be doing it but but like to an extreme extent it's just like pump and dump schemes but well i don't elon's a weird character mcafee i he's just a McAfee's someone

Starting point is 02:26:05 I can see is like very much trying to manipulate people for money Elon might just be very socially inept because he is kind of socially inept

Starting point is 02:26:14 but it is still Elon he was one of the original angel investors in PayPal so we know that he knows what he's doing when it comes to investing I feel like also he like I feel like his twitter i feel like he's just like one of those

Starting point is 02:26:29 people that just like loves on like the world uh like obviously he wouldn't like sacrifice his money for it or something like that but he but like i feel like he's the kind of guy play around well yeah uh he did make a flamethrower because he wanted to which is sick isn't that oh wait and then he has like he also owns like the boring company is that that's not the flamethrower that's like a drilling thing right i think the flamethrower was released under the boring company okay but yeah i don't know too much about it which is kind of sick honestly but elon has sort of gotten in trouble in the past

Starting point is 02:27:05 like that's the reason why he's not on is he not on the board of directors for tesla anymore or i know he got one of his positions stripped uh from him because he uh was back when he was manipulating the price of the tesla stock uh when he said tesla shares are worth too much or tesla shares are overvalued or something like that oh my god and yeah i i could understand why they would be like dude please don't yeah that's like the like that's terrible that's why you're like you're just getting pulled away from your own company but in that case he like he actually was in position where he could be doing um some level of insider trading. But when it comes to like Bitcoin or Doge

Starting point is 02:27:48 or any of the other coins he's talking about now, he has, from what we know, he's not involved in the backend for that. All he is is just like a dude who has a lot of influence. Yeah. Honestly, to be that influential, he's got money, he's got power, he's got trolling, he's got everything he needs. power he's got trolling he's got everything he

Starting point is 02:28:05 needs let's make dogecoin as valuable as possible for the lulz yeah to the moon to the moon as they say uh which is honestly hilarious yeah i i still don't have any money in doge i i should have put some money in that would be funny but like that that whole thing with um with games with game stonk is like you're gonna be like they're gonna teach that In schools probably Like which is hilarious Like that is like so funny to think that a meme Is gonna be taught in like probably

Starting point is 02:28:34 Universities they're gonna be like this one thing Happened this one time let's not talk about it Dogecoin went up again He apparently tweeted about it again. Apparently he might be investigated for shitposting about Doge. Oh, it shot up and then it came straight back down.

Starting point is 02:28:56 Straight up. There's gotta be bots out there that just invest in whatever he says. Somehow. I'm sure they exist. Or at least people that work at Twitter have a way to do it. Just joking. If you look up Dogecoin on Google,

Starting point is 02:29:13 the people also ask, will Dogecoin ever hit a dollar? And will Dogecoin ever reach $100? Will Dogecoin make me rich? How much is Dogecoin worth right now? Five cents. Oh, okay. So that's not as much as I thought it was.

Starting point is 02:29:29 I thought it had gone up to like 50 cents by now. I think the fee was like eight or so. 50 cents Canadian, but I think the... Yeah, I was going to say 50 cents Canadian, then I was like, oh, I guess it's like pretty much the same exchange rate. Pretty much. I don't know Canadian exchange rate. All I know is my dollar is worthless

Starting point is 02:29:46 no ours is ours is just as worthless i think we're worth like pretty much the same amount i know this because i remember i looked at getting jobs like a co-op in australia that was i guess a while ago but i think i think our value our value might even be less right now uh one canadian dollar is worth one uh one australian dollar and one cent so slightly more what up shout out to all my canadians watching this knowing that our value our money is one cent more crazy i'm just joking that's not a very big achievement i don't think the shit currency we have yeah the canadian dollar is like very inconsistent some years it'll be doing like well you know it hasn't done very soon i was gonna say some years they'll be doing pretty

Starting point is 02:30:31 good and i feel like just like there was one time i can do it and like people just were like so into it everybody was like canadian dollar worth so much but like i don't think that's happened i think that literally lasted like a few days and people just stuck with it the one good thing about covid is that uh the australian dollar completely tanked and that means that uh when i got paid from uh patreon i got way more money that's sick actually yeah honestly getting foreign money is like pretty sweet when you live in i don't know countries that have shit currency uh which is honestly pretty sweet but uh sadly remote work is like honestly that's the nice thing about software you you've said before that you do like stacking boxes right now right yeah yeah yeah do you like is there do you have plans to go into software stuff i don't know at this point i'm i'm deciding after this. I do get long-term life.

Starting point is 02:31:26 I do get long-term life on you. What will you be doing in five years? Yeah, where do you see yourself in 15 years? Working for you. I have no idea. Whenever anyone asks one of those questions, it's like, I don't know. I'm just going to like, I'll wing it, basically.

Starting point is 02:31:43 Right now, I'm enjoying what I'm doing. I'm just going to keep doing what I do. If it so happens that this isn't gonna go anywhere i'll i'll decide at that point but for now i'm gonna keep doing what i do yeah fair enough i feel like this is like a pretty sweet sign up anyways yeah at least like at this rate like i don't know how many student loans you got but like at least at least you're like making money back and you're also working at the same time. So that's like pretty, pretty win-win.

Starting point is 02:32:07 How does student loans work in Canada? Cause they practically really good here. It depends on your province. So my province is pretty reasonable about it. Um, cause like, well up until recently, Alberta had like a lot.

Starting point is 02:32:20 Um, but you know, oil isn't worth very much right now. Uh, so now it's not really that great but i think it's probably the same thing now i'm hoping uh but yeah it's pretty much like you get i don't know i think it works pretty similar to other other uh countries where it's just basically like you get a certain amount of money every year it's for your student loans you request the amount that

Starting point is 02:32:39 you need but it's like there's a limit to how much you can get anyways uh that's pretty much how it works like some, you can't get it if your family is a certain amount of wealth or something like that, but I don't think that's a thing in Alberta at all. But it sucks for those poor people whose parents have a lot of money but refuse to pay for university.

Starting point is 02:32:57 I know a few people that have that. It's actually really good here. I don't know. There's people in Australia that like to complain about how our loan system works. They think we're in America. There's a lot of people like that, actually, where they'll bring American problems to Australia and they don't translate at all.

Starting point is 02:33:18 So our loan system is a federal system, so all the states use the exact same one um i think there's like a cap at like 200 000 or something but unless you do like two uh like if you do like a medical and like a uh aeronautical engineering that's really the only way to get to actually like get to the limit um yeah i was like that's a i was like that's a lot of money how expensive are you uh my degree i think was like 35 000 okay but you go to like medical degrees and they can get way more expensive i think some of them are upwards of like 90 000 or so i believe it especially well you have to do like i think it's the same everywhere you have to

Starting point is 02:34:05 do an undergrad med school anyway yeah so it's like just just piles on uh i actually don't it might not be 200 000 i'm gonna see if there's a limit i know there's talks about adding a limit oh it is 106 319 dollars what $106,319. What? Sure. Okay. I don't know why that random number. But that's for most students. For people doing medical, dentistry, veterinary science, aviation courses,

Starting point is 02:34:37 it's $152,000. But that's because you have to do your PhD and stuff. That makes sense. Yeah. Too expensive still, but it makes sense yeah too expensive still but it makes sense um and the way it works here is you actually don't have to pay it back a cent until you make more than 46 000 a year so okay it's kind of well it's not quite the same we i think we have like a time limit uh-huh oh yeah but you do get you do get a bit of a break right i think i don't know i'm kind of nervous for when i stop and then i find out that i'm wrong yeah so here if you

Starting point is 02:35:10 if you never make more than the threshold you never have to pay back a cent um oh dude that's sick it also does mean there's a lot of people who never pay back their their degrees but the way it works here is it so it goes up like similar to like a tax bracket um except there's a lot more brackets so if it's between 46 620 and 53 826 i don't know what the hell's up with these random numbers uh you pay back one percent of what you make that year so if you make 46 000 you pay back four thousand up forty six hundred dollars that year so if you make forty six thousand dollars you pay back four thousand forty six hundred dollars that year and then it just gradually goes up and up the highest here is after you're making one hundred thirty six thousand seven hundred and forty dollars you pay back

Starting point is 02:35:55 ten percent of your salary that year so thirteen thousand six hundred whatever it works out to be that's pretty sweet yeah i feel like the i feel like it like sounds like bad and the fact that like a lot of people wouldn't pay it back but i was like i was thinking about this before pretty recently i was thinking about like stuff like because people always talk about stuff like arts degrees and how it's like people will be like it's a waste of money like what like it's just a waste of tax money and stuff like that for like some places where it's like paid for and stuff like that like you shouldn't just go to university uh in arts if you don't like need to or something like that but that's the thing about it it's like people still like arts are still important like there's not not a lot of people that like

Starting point is 02:36:32 like think about like movies everybody watches movies a lot of people that go to university for that sort of stuff like arts are still an important thing whether it makes sense for for sure but when it's i i guess it's more of a us thing but um because people here if you at least people i grew up with if you don't have any idea what you want to do you just i don't know go be a drop kick and do something or you get like i don't know like or if actually if you don't if you don't want to be a drop kick and do nothing you'll go get a decent job and get an apprenticeship and do something like electrician work or plumbing or anything like that like that's that's a really good career path um but i guess

Starting point is 02:37:11 it's more of an american thing where just everyone sort of just goes to college i don't know what it's like in in canada but uh it's pretty well i hear about i hear about americans just going to college and not knowing what they want to do, and that doesn't make any sense to me. I think, like, the recruiting is pretty different, like, between, like, all the countries. And I think, like, in America, it's, like, way, way bigger. And I feel like a lot of people in,

Starting point is 02:37:38 especially because university is so expensive in the US. And, like, the trade-off is that, like, there's a lot of, like, because people are spending so much money like parties and stuff like that are like way bigger like i feel like parties at every university are pretty big but i feel like because people are spending so much money there's chances that somebody is flipping loaded that's uh that's probably throwing some crazy stuff and like i feel like that's why like a lot of people go to college i think it's just more of a push in canada like at least in my province like a lot of people go to college i think it's just more of a push in canada like at least in my province like a lot of people go to like state which is like a trade school yeah yeah um i think that's what you're talking about yeah we have a system called tafe which is basically the same

Starting point is 02:38:13 thing but you could also just you know you through tafe you can do apprenticeships and stuff like that and actually get yourself a decent job but people also do things like um like they'll have programming classes there as well so you could go that route instead of going to university to do to get yourself a decent job but people also do things like um like they'll have programming classes there as well so you could go that route instead of going to university to do programming i don't know how good it is but like here here we also have like colleges which i guess are like that completely cut out i didn't hear any of that i noticed that i was like oh you can't hear me all right uh what i was gonna say is like we have colleges too which are like i don't know if they're the same for you guys but like colleges

Starting point is 02:38:48 not quite a university there we go i got it not quite a university but they like have like like kind of like what they would call a community college in the u.s right and i think those are like pretty common because it's like they pretty much offer most of the same courses people that want to go into like becoming a policeman or something like that would go into it because it's not really a trade but like you don't need to pay expensive university that it doesn't matter what university you go to they're all going to teach you the same thing yeah yeah yeah makes sense now that programming is really too different there's no matter i feel like a lot of universities you go to they're gonna they're just gonna give you free resources

Starting point is 02:39:20 i i don't know right they had a class that was like hey uh your coursework is going through these linda videos dude honestly i'm paying how much money to be here yeah i i used to be like honestly like it's like yeah i'm paying money for this man come on at least that being said i would prefer that a prof does that than just be a terrible lecturer. And especially now that things are online, if they just refuse to record and they're really hard to follow and lecture, I'd way rather they just give me videos that is going to be the content I have to make. Because at least then I'm paying and getting my degree rather than paying to do shitty in class. I keep trying to correct myself when I start to swear.

Starting point is 02:40:15 Oh. Yeah. Oh, yeah. do shitty in class i keep trying to correct myself when i start to swear oh yeah well yeah what we i've lost where we're at um what we were talking about we're talking about school loans oh right right right yeah uh we were talking about what like is it the same in canada as it is in America? Right. Yeah, and then we went on to the push to just go to college but not knowing what you're going to be doing. I think it's still here, but not quite as bad. Well, I guess we sort of have college here, but usually if you're doing college, you're doing it as an entry to get into university when you just didn't finish high school or you didn't finish high school with high enough grades yeah that's pretty

Starting point is 02:40:50 common here too a lot of people like the colleges offer like high school upgrading classes which like a lot of my buddies have like done that sort of stuff before because like a lot of my guys that are the guys that i'm like really close friends with are like guys from like a sport yeah it's like it's like stuff like, ah, this is too much of a time commitment. I'll just not finish this. My school had a pretty serious bullying problem. Basically the teachers didn't do anything about it.

Starting point is 02:41:13 So my sister ended up dropping out of high school and like, like grade 10. So that would have been when she was 15. Yeah. 15 or 16. But then she decided that she wanted to go do some science stuff at university i think she's going into biology um and she decided that she was going to go back and do adult schooling actually finish that off and she's uh starting university in a

Starting point is 02:41:41 week or so actually that's pretty sweet that's like always good to hear like i know like there's also like some people like at least like some of my friends that get like so hung up on like upgrading which is kind of funny because like i don't know if it's the same for you guys but like if you're just going into like a lot of like normal programs like your grades don't matter that much if you have like okay grades like they're not like well i think honestly if you have grades if you've been if you passed and stuff like that like a lot of times you can like you can go into a lot of like majors and it doesn't really matter so upgrade isn't really going to do you any favors you're just going to spend more time

Starting point is 02:42:13 and not really get any return on investment yeah yeah uh like like especially when it comes to like once you graduate like if employers care about gpa they're not gonna care about high school gpa that's just my thought the only the way we do it here is um it's not a gpa system per se for high school it's called what's it called atar uh australian tertiary something rating i don't know what the a stands for in there um but it's a sketch it's like i think it's a number from like 50 to 100 i don't know what the a stands for in there um but it's a scale it's like i think it's a number from like 50 to 100 i don't know why it's 50 to 100 don't don't don't question it um but that basically just it's like an entrance rating to get into university every degree has some sort of rating it has like a minimum entry and then a guaranteed entry so guaranteed entry

Starting point is 02:43:02 obviously is what that is but sometimes they won't get enough people to actually uh apply for the course to run it so then they'll take people from the the lower the lower atars so i think mine had a a 76 guaranteed entry which was if you got like all b's in high school you'd be fine or in your i think in your final year i think was what mattered yeah i yeah we don't have like at least the universe which funny enough what you're saying like victoria yeah in much like i guess i know that there's a victorian uh australia which is obviously not a city but in calgary in uh canada it's a city oh yeah that's where i got school and uh i was like i say oh yeah we don't have like the guaranteed entry which is like honestly like

Starting point is 02:43:51 when you say that i'm like we should just have that well yeah if you get like if you get perfect grades why can't i have a guaranteed entry into an arts class like surely yeah that's like that's like uh like i originally was gonna go to university but it's kind of got like one of those like you know those like elitist people because i was going i was applying for engineering and like there's some people in like engineering that are like super uh like treated as like if it's like some sort of a status symbol right to be taking engineering and so like i was asking a guy about it i was like hey man like what sort of grades should i have to get in like i feel like i have pretty good grades but like what like i was asking a guy about it i was like hey man like what sort of grades should i have to get in like i feel like i have pretty good grades but like what like i was like i had a pretty trash grade in social because like who cares about social or what do you i don't know if you guys

Starting point is 02:44:31 call it social there social what is that a combination of like uh history and an english course but you also have an english course there's probably another word for the english portion uh like i think the thing the closest thing i don't know oh sorry what was that it's like political science it's like a political science history i think combined closest thing we'd have would be society and culture okay so then yeah i guess that would be what the thing would be but i had pretty like i didn't have like a terrible grade but i was, it's not really that great. And he was like, oh, dude, if you want to have over 90, and I was like, oh, well, I'm probably not going to have over 90 and everything.

Starting point is 02:45:11 I spend literally three months of my high school year. I had good grades. I had 90s and 80s in most of my stuff. You have to flex on your high schoolers. But I was the man back in high school. I'm joking. I was just a try hard in grade 12. But anyways, I, but I was like, I'm not probably not going to have perfect grades.

Starting point is 02:45:30 Cause I literally spent three months of my year in Florida and do training. And then afterwards I talked to friends that went to school there and it was like, Oh yeah, I got in with like a 70. And I was like, God damn it. I wasn't even like, that wasn't even like the, like, you know, like the grade that you're supposed to have to get in. And I was like, I didn't, I did not need a 90 to get in. God damn it. Well, I think I got like five A's in year 12 or something like that.

Starting point is 02:45:53 I don't remember. But I went to a disadvantaged school. So my school was in a kind of a poor area. And to encourage people like that to try to upskill themselves and not just basically live off of welfare their entire life, they're given bonus marks or bonus points for their ATAR to get into university because you're disadvantaged. So I, being someone who isn't an idiot decided okay this means i can put zero

Starting point is 02:46:31 effort into year 12 so i picked the easiest subjects i could imagine uh we had like woodworking i made a hockey table or air hockey table um he uh what was the how i had uh workplace practices which is basically just going over like occupational health and safety stuff and if you're like hey don't leave buckets of water in an aisle when you're filling shelves that sort of stuff like how to lift a box basically just like the most basic stuff you can imagine. I had to do a math class. So I picked the easiest math class. Even though up until that point,

Starting point is 02:47:13 I'd been in the top one. So this one you had, I think you had, there was like a, what's that graph that had, it's like a box, box plot that's it box plot uh that weird like yeah yeah there was like some basic basic stat stuff drawing box lots and things like that very easy class um my programming class i knew more than the teacher because he was teaching

Starting point is 02:47:42 class chapter by chapter chapter so he was learning as he was going, which is not a good way to teach a class. That was very easy as well. The reason why I wanted my 5As, even though I didn't need them, is because my school also had

Starting point is 02:48:00 a bunch of leftover MacBook Pros and they were like, oh, if you get 5As in year 12, have a MacBook Pro, because no one got 5As, because it was a shit school. Originally, they had it on 1A, and that was too easy. But by the time I got there, it was 5As.

Starting point is 02:48:16 The problem they had though, is I think my cohort was probably the best performing cohort that school's ever had. So I think half of the year 12s got macbook pros that's kind of sick that's sick that's how i got that 2012 macbook pro i didn't pay for it that's pretty awesome oh but actually something that confused me so how do you guys is i don't know if it works the

Starting point is 02:48:42 same way with you guys it's you pretty much have to do like i guess you do have to take a math but like when you guys do maths are there like different kinds of maths you can take in high school like we basically had like dash one dash two dash three and then like some schools had dash four which is like using a ruler and stuff like that but it's like they're all they're all like based on the same thing just with less content except i think dash three is like barely any of the stuff that you would normally learn like the same thing with you guys up until grade 11 and 12 um they don't give them proper names uh it's just like here's the the dumb people math class here's the normal people math class, here's the normal people math class, here's the exceptional math class. But in year 12 they have maths apps, that's maths applications, that's the one I did, because I didn't want to try. Then they had, I think they got rid of like the normal one in year

Starting point is 02:49:37 12. After that you got, I think you had maths studies, and then there was someone even above that and that was going into things like calculus and things like that oh so you guys okay that's interesting but up until um up until grade 11 basically the teachers just picked what class you were going into they looked at your grades okay well you can do this class go into this one yeah i guess like that's like the same so we had like well not really the same sort of thing but we had uh the way we did it is yeah we had like i don't know if they're called the same thing for you guys but you have like ip of course uh what i was gonna say was like we had like the normal structure i was saying like one two three like how hard it was and we had like ap and ivy which

Starting point is 02:50:25 i feel like you guys had to like the same sort of like international bachelors like stuff like meant for like i don't know going to school in like some other high like university or something like that you get like credit for it too fancy for us yeah i was like i was like you probably didn't i was like if you're a disadvantaged school i feel like you have like uh ap program but anyway i was gonna say it was like we had all that sort of stuff and then you'd also do like calculus after you did that sort of stuff um which funny enough when you said like either your uh computer science like teacher was like explaining it like learning as they went that was literally my calculus teacher and it was

Starting point is 02:50:59 i had such a the class so then we had one calculus class because my school was like i went to private school big flex i went on the i went to the opposite of a disadvantaged school i went to a privileged school uh but anyways i uh not not a flex the more more embarrassing than uh flex uh anyways what i was gonna say was that the um so because of that our school was really small and our class size was 30 kids which i usually don't get that many people doing it so like the class size was 30 kids but they had four desks right um like one of those wider desks like kind of like a beer like a beer pong table fold out table or whatever you want to call it i kind of like this you're still in university

Starting point is 02:51:41 right now i was like saying, I was like, there's probably a better way to describe this. Oh, anyways, what I was going to say was that, uh, yeah, we have like four of those and we had 30 kids between all of them. So it was like super packed and no joke.

Starting point is 02:51:54 It was so bad that like by like the third week we had like no joke, like probably 15 people in the class. We dropped our class. Cause it was just so terrible. Yeah. My school was, um, because in my state they have this thing

Starting point is 02:52:06 called super schools uh where basically they take a bunch of different schools and merge them together so my high school wasn't actually a high school it was um i don't know what you what you call the like that do you guys have a thing you do before you like your first year of primary school uh like kindergarten is what we call it okay because i think the right thing what do you call primary what's primary school that's from when you're like 5 to 12 or something yeah so you have okay i guess like i think kindergarten you're like preschool which is yeah okay yeah so we have a kindergarten and then you have i think some states call it preschool some people some call it reception um but basically it was from that

Starting point is 02:52:52 to year 12 in one school that was the same thing with mine actually okay it's kind of funny but this school they'd also shut down some other nearby schools so this school was way overpacked um every single class had at least 30 students in it that was on the low end They'd also shut down some of the nearby schools. So this school was way overpacked. Every single class had at least 30 students in it. That was on the low end. Oh my God. Yeah, it's like the normal public schools would be like that, but never that ridiculous. We had a fancy private school name,

Starting point is 02:53:18 but we were very much a public school. Mark Oliphant College. That does sound pretty bougie you can put mark that's kind of sick that that's like got college in its name i'd be like oh man if like if you're a college in a high school in canada you're like you're usually like the the bougie private school it uh initially for i don't know maybe there's someone from uh south australia watching this it used to be Smithfield High, which has a notorious rap. It basically is bad as like Playford High,

Starting point is 02:53:50 which also changed their name to Playford International College because that school had a bad reputation for people getting stabbed and things like that, which, you know, just normal public school things. Yeah, luckily most schools, I don't know i

Starting point is 02:54:07 feel like the meme of like or the joke of like canadians being nice is like you know a bit overstated honestly like for the most part like i feel like especially when you're like like there are places in canada that are like not super great like uh no offense to anybody in manitoba manitoba is kind of kind is kind of like, you know. But like for the most part, like there aren't really that many bad places in Canada. Like Vancouver, I guess, is like a big city. So it's bound to have it.

Starting point is 02:54:36 But yeah, yeah. Now my area I grew up in is not the best area. There was a Coke dealer on my street. Lots of fun. He liked to do deals outside of my house at three in the morning. I live in like a downtown sort of area so there's like lots of like that sort of stuff but it's like all right i have lots of fun stories from my high school like in the disabled toilets in one of the buildings there was a list of people who fucked uh the list wasn't even so clearly someone had been with someone someone else in that list multiple times or something uh there were multiple occasions

Starting point is 02:55:11 people were caught smoking weed like behind the the school gym uh people giving blow job behind the school gym things like that lots of lots of fun public school stuff yeah i guess like some of that is like still well i guess smoking weed is like legal in canada i don't know if you know um yeah another flex we have uh we can we have medical in like i think victoria yeah i think victoria has medical but everywhere else uh nope yeah we had medical for a bit and then just like now now it's legal which is like i guess pretty sweet uh like i don't know i don't know everybody's thoughts on i i will

Starting point is 02:55:51 i will neither confirm nor deny my consumption of of illegal substances wink yeah i feel like saying anything i guess it's illegal in australia i don't know why the way the way it works here is if you're caught with it then it's a problem but there are some people who take that too literally and if they do get caught with it they just smoke all of it like straight away yeah

Starting point is 02:56:12 in like Canada there's like certain parts of Canada there's certain parts of Canada that's like you there's like a doctor that works at a pot store

Starting point is 02:56:21 and so you go into the pot store you tell the doctor you have a headache or something and then bam prescription like that's not all of canada but now like since it's legal yeah you do you i wouldn't be surprised if it goes recreation here at some point yeah i feel like at this rate it's going to be available like usually australia like follows american trends like a couple of years later yeah yeah like at least in like especially in like the u.s i feel like it'll take a while i feel like some like so many states will

Starting point is 02:56:50 just make it illegal if uh well but then there's other states like california where it's like they're they're discussing making our psilocybin legal yeah or like yeah like there's states where it's just like completely legal which is uh which is sick i guess uh but yeah anyways that's uh that's i just find that like i find the idea of like just being like i'm gonna add more rules city in my than my country provides i guess like in canada they still do that like they have different drinking ages in different parts of canada like alberta the part that i live in has a drinking age of 18 uh which i think just makes sense should be that way because i feel like by the time that you're an adult you should be allowed to drink that's just my opinion uh but a lot of like most other provinces have it at 19 um which like i don't know kind of silly you go to university and you're like all right well i guess i can't drink anymore well america is even weirder 21 yeah like what the heck you can go to war no there's no one

Starting point is 02:57:49 who doesn't who doesn't drink that's not a thing like everyone who goes to college drinks i think i think the one thing though that's like not that i'm not condoning it or anything but i think one thing that is good about it still be illegal when you like when you're 19 because when i went to university i went to province so it was 19 there and the nice thing about it is that when it's illegal like house parties at the not to bring up partying in a tech podcast i feel like that's kind of fun but like the parties are just like really sweet because like no one can go to a bar so like everybody's just like i guess we just have to host something all the time that's fair which at least i get my opinion like i think that's pretty sweet i think that's i think that's

Starting point is 02:58:28 the big thing in america that's why they keep it at 21 they don't actually think it should be 21 i'm sure some people do but i think really secretly the universities are keeping it at 21 so that way they can keep getting people to go to college it's how it all it's all a mind game at all keep getting kids to go to college so they can party well here's the the legal drinking age in australia is 18 the uh the community drinking age is whatever whatever sort of happens like i think my first drink was at like 12 or so that's great i guess like there's like places i guess like in like especially it's like pretty common to do what's it called to just like have like like if your if your parents okay with it

Starting point is 02:59:09 you can have a glass of wine which like to be fair i feel like most kids are not like stoked on having wine but uh my first drink was a uh a vodka cruiser which is a much nicer first drink very bougie i'm just yeah they're the they're the drink that all of the like white girls at parties drink here oh nice um yeah my parents logic was uh it's better for me to have a drink at home than go somewhere and drink that's pretty fair oh yeah my parent like i feel like especially when i drank underage or if i if did drink underage, not to out myself, I feel like a lot of it was just like, it's better that we know you're drinking

Starting point is 02:59:50 than you trying to hide it and doing something stupid like driving home drunk. You're better off, obviously, when you're, I guess you said that the longest drinking age would be 14, that you're allowed to drink or something like that. But I feel like at the same time, it's like, when you are, well, how early can you drive in australia

Starting point is 03:00:07 you can get your so we have a it's a different per state my state you can get your learner's permit at 16 um but you need like when you have your learner's permit you have to have a uh a supervisor with you so that can be anyone who's had their full license, I think for at least three years. Similar to us. Then you're in your loaners for a year. I think you have to get like 100 hours of driving experience or something during that time.

Starting point is 03:00:36 Then you have a test. Then you're on your P1s. You have to be on that for a year. Then you're on your P2s. Then you're on that for a year. And then you on your p2s then you're on that for a year and then you get your full license i'm getting my falls in like a couple of weeks wait what that is ridiculous yeah okay i don't know that it works for us because this ours is way more also until you have your full license you have a um a zero blood alcohol limit so if

Starting point is 03:01:01 you've had a single drink you can't drive i guess okay i guess like here we because we do have a full license and that's the same where it's like when you get your you can get your full license after yeah like two years of driving and then you can have a higher blood alcohol limit yeah i think it's pretty much the only only new thing but you can get your learners in uh in my province in uh at 14 oh wow and then you can get your drivers at 16 um and then there's basically no difference besides you can have a high blood alcohol content but that kind of just makes sense because you can't drink at 16 here so it's not really much point and then used to be you could get your

Starting point is 03:01:35 drivers at 18 but now they've added the extra year of p2s so you can only get at 19 now yeah yeah so like i don't know i still don't have my full license oh i i caught it that time uh i still i still i still don't have my full license because oh my goodness it keeps cutting out but uh yeah yeah i didn't get my i didn't get my learner's permit until i was 20 because i i don't know i was lazy um well how old am i now wait maybe it was 19 when i got my learner's permit yeah okay yeah i'm 23 soon yeah fair enough i'm like i'm like it's funny because like i feel like i should the fact that because i'm old i'm i'm a year older. And I was like, oh, man, the fact that I'm still in school, terrible. That's what you get for switching degrees then. Yeah, exactly.

Starting point is 03:02:32 I was like, man, this held me back so long. I'm only like a year old. But yeah. Well, this is as good a time as any because it's been three hours. I think we should sign off the podcast at some point. I agree. agree i was like i don't know how long you go to go for these i go until we run out of topics and we're not running out of topics so um i'm i don't want to do more than three hours i'm good i want to have some lunch at some point yeah sounds good man okay so uh usually in the podcast i give someone a shout out.

Starting point is 03:03:07 What channel, any channels you've been watching out there you think deserve some attention? Oh, man, I don't know his actual full name, Will, but Will from the Discord. Oh, yeah, Will. He made a channel. Will Taylor? Yes, I think that's his name.

Starting point is 03:03:25 There's a thousand people named Will Taylor. That's not very... Oh, God. All right. Just a sec. Oh, no. He sent it to me in a PM, I think, as well. Yes.

Starting point is 03:03:38 Oh, God. Yeah, that is a bad... That's a hard one to search. Oh, Will T, sorry. That's a really... Yeah. Fix that, please. Yeah, he's done two videos recently on NixOS.

Starting point is 03:03:52 Because he likes to shield NixOS a lot. Oh, no, he's also done some other stuff before that as well. But years ago. Yeah, I think his Nix stuff is the most recent content. They're actually pretty good. I recommend them if you're interested. If you're not interested in Nix, you could check them check them out anyways yeah you might be interested in nicks afterwards maybe yeah for sure uh okay as for me i'm gonna what's something i've been watching um

Starting point is 03:04:16 oh here's a fun one there is a channel called just a Pancake. Just a Pancake does Kingdom Hearts weird parody sort of videos. I think one of his bigger videos was Kingdom Hearts in a nutshell. Basically, he just goes through all of the Kingdom Hearts games, breaking down how dumb the story is, how everyone is basically a xehanort and it doesn't make any sense and there's time travel

Starting point is 03:04:50 and the game is nonsense but yeah yeah i don't know if you've played kingdom hearts before but it's a if you pay attention to the story it's just dumb yeah i like kind of have watched like some summary seems pretty all over the place yeah it is yes it's just nonsense basically um yeah cool uh where can people find you uh you guys can check me out on youtube if you're watching this on youtube gavin freeborn that's my name on youtube i make videos about a bunch of stuff some of it crosses over with brodies i make a bunch of stuff on trough and such and if you guys are on library you can find me at gavin freeborn as well cool all right i'll leave links to all that stuff down below as well sick uh okay so before we go i would like to thank my supporters where is my list where is it i should

Starting point is 03:05:47 have brought it up before uh okay and it's gone look there it is okay so thank you guys to the word thank you to the supporters chris joachim donald michael ancho nathan david monza will brennan chigabento jamie joseph Peter, Lee, Stephen, Tony, Tushar, and all of the $2 supporters. If you'd like to go support my stuff, there'll be links to that in the description. Just scroll through it, you'll find it eventually. This podcast, if you're listening to the audio version, the video version is on YouTube and Odyssey.

Starting point is 03:06:18 And for the video watchers, video viewers, whatever you want to call yourselves, the audio version, if you know how to search for Tech of a T on a podcast platform you'll be able to find it, it's basically everywhere and if it's not there, shoot me an email or something, I'll make sure it gets on that platform somehow, I don't know, I'll work it out

Starting point is 03:06:36 uh, yeah cool, that should be basically everything I will give you the final word what do you guys think worms would feel like if they were picky I will give you the final word. What do you guys think worms would feel like if they were picky? Let us know in the comments. Sure. Okay.

Starting point is 03:06:54 All right. That's all I got.

Tech Over Tea - #53 Linux, Code And Talking Trash - feat Gavin Freeborn

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