Tech Over Tea - Confronting The Creator Of Omarchy | DHH

Episode Date: September 4, 2026

Today we have DHH the creator of Omarchy and many other things on the show to talk about the recent Omacom Foundation funding, why this distro was created and where it's heading into the future==========Support The Channel==========► Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/brodierobertson► Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/BrodieRobertsonVideo► Amazon USA: https://amzn.to/3d5gykF► Other Methods: https://cointr.ee/brodierobertson==========Guest Links==========Omarchy Website: https://omarchy.org/Twitter: https://x.com/dhh==========Support The Show==========► Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/brodierobertson► Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/BrodieRobertsonVideo► Amazon USA: https://amzn.to/3d5gykF► Other Methods: https://cointr.ee/brodierobertson=========Video Platforms==========🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBq5p-xOla8xhnrbhu8AIAg=========Audio Release=========🎵 RSS: https://anchor.fm/s/149fd51c/podcast/rss🎵 Apple Podcast:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tech-over-tea/id1501727953🎵 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3IfFpfzlLo7OPsEnl4gbdM🎵 Google Podcast: https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy8xNDlmZDUxYy9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw==🎵 Anchor: https://anchor.fm/tech-over-tea==========Social Media==========🎤 Discord:https://discord.gg/PkMRVn9🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/TechOverTeaShow📷 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/techovertea/🌐 Mastodon:https://mastodon.social/web/accounts/1093345==========Credits==========🎨 Channel Art:All my art has was created by Supercozmanhttps://twitter.com/Supercozmanhttps://www.instagram.com/supercozman_draws/DISCLOSURE: Wherever possible I use referral links, which means if you click one of the links in this video or description and make a purchase we may receive a small commission or other compensation.

Good morning, good day, and good evening. I'm as well as you're host, Brodie Robertson. And today, I'm sure there's going to be some fun replies after this one goes public. So we'll see how that one goes. Today, we have the man of many, many things of racing, of Ruby on Rails. Now ruffling some feathers in the Linux space, we'll say. Welcome to the show DHHH. How are you doing? Yeah. I'm doing phenomenal. And thank you so much for having me on.

I've been a big fan of show for a long time. So it's really an honor to be here. Absolute pleasure. Well, it would have been nice to start this about 30 minutes ago. But, you know, things happen. We'll move past that. I was slightly annoyed, but you're here now, so that's all that matters. So I think the best place to start here, before we get into anything of what's been going on in this space is what is Umachi and why does it exist? Umachi is my attempt at creating the perfect computer. And I think that path is paved by beautiful, fun, and opinionated Linux.

That's what I'm trying to build this distro. Like, is it a distro? Is it not a distro? I think that's an interesting fun determination maybe to argue about, but I'm not as interested in arguing as I am about doing. and building and just getting momentum going such that the Linux system that I have now found discovered can be accessible to everyone. Because I've been using computers for over 40 years. I got my first computer.

My first computer I used was a Commodore 64 and then we couldn't afford that. So I got to hand me down Amstrad 464 that my dad traded the stereo system for. So that was at five years old. That's 41 years ago. And I've been in love with computers ever since. and I've had some real romances there. Not so much with that Amstrat, but I was into Amiga computers for a long time.

I loved the Amiga. Then I got it into Windows for a couple of years. I never loved Windows, but I loved the video games that were on Windows, so I just had to hold my nose and pay tribute to Redmond. And then the Mac, when it switched to OSX in 2001, I jumped on Beta 2 or Beta 3 and thought, wow, here's something different.

It's beautiful. It's sort of kind of Linux-y. It's BSD underneath. I can do a lot of things that I want to do. And then not all of it, nope. For anyone. Anyone wants to argue about, is Mac OS BSD? Yes, it's BSD user space.

Not important. Not important. Right. I actually, I mean, the thing I've come to realize is it's actually incredibly important. And the reason why the Mac is not the operating system that I'm interested in pursuing forward is that it is not that. It's neither BSD nor. Linux and therefore it does not have the freedom that either of those two things offer. It is a walled, locked garden. A beautiful one, in my opinion, one I lived in for 20 years. I think Apple, at least

historically, had an incredible talent of putting in a whole integrated system together. I've taken an enormous inspiration for what, especially early days Apple, were able to do, marrying hardware, software, services, applications, and providing a complete solution to a user that dimply just delights them. It works. And it's also good, better, right? But I also think it is, it's high time for far more people to discover what I've discovered. Coming to Linux on the desktop just two and a half years ago. I have not been here for a million years. I've been watching. I've been inspired. I've been using Linux for three decades on the server, but I have not been using it beyond the last two and a half years on my personal machine. Then I did. First, I started

with Ubuntu, I think almost anyone does. Then I started tailoring Ubuntu and getting as far as I could do with that with a precursor project to a machi called Amit Kube. And then I found Arch, the perfect blank slate to get started on this project because nothing was included, nothing was set up and everything was open and available. And then I found Hyperland. And between those two things together, I realized this is not just like a free computer or whatever. This is a different computer.

It does not look like. It does not work like any other computer I've ever used. I had not used a tiling window manager before. I mean, I'd seen a bunch of my friends use I3 or DWM or whatever. And they're like, oh, that looks cool, but also kind of strange. I mean, I've been used to a different paradigm. I don't know. It is a very important paradigm first time you use.

It's something you, I personally really like them. It's something that right now I'm on KDE and it's not tiling. So it's something I'm kind of missing. But it's one of those things where you think. it's not going to work until you start to wrap your head around the idea of you don't really ever need to have, especially if you're using workspaces, need to have that many windows per screen. It actually forces you into a workflow where you can actually see the content rather than just overlapping everything. This is why I don't buy the argument at all.

The Tiling Window Managers is not for the general public. It's not for the mainstream. No, you're wrong. It is absolutely so and the evidence is in mobile phones and iPads. That's how they work. If you look at all the ways you can tile things and set things up on an iPad, it's like that. It's basically a tiling window manager that starts like with one window. And it provides a simplicity that the other paradigm doesn't have. I watched a lot of Normese use traditional computers and they lose windows all the time. It's like it's just buried under the other stack of other windows or their files are buried down there. I don't think it's all it's given. that tiling window managers are not something that others can use.

I've had this argument also about kids. Can kids use Amachi? Can they use tiling window manager systems? I'm like, yes, they can. They're much better at it in most cases because they don't have to unlearn the old paradigm. And the old paradigm was great. I mean, it's not like I have a problem with it. It's fine if people like it.

But it's also been around for 40 years. I mean, I don't actually know what the initial lineage of tiling window managers is, but it has been a niche thing, right? Like, Tiling Window Mangers was for the nerds and not just the nerds, but the uber nerds. Small percentage of them. Now we're going to broaden that out. Now we've got the, I was about to say normal nerds. I mean, we're all just different kinds of nerds, but a broader set of nerds onto using it and they're loving it.

This was the thing I found when I got onto HypoLand that it was just so much better. It took me, it took me a little while. It always does. Like you're like, then I try to drag the things around and like, oh, I got to hold down super. and okay, so you learned the ergonomics of it. And then you realize two days after you've internalized this, I can't go back. Like, I tried to use a Mac like shortly after I switched over.

I'm like, I don't even know how this works. There are all the tiling extensions you can use. There's like... Yes, I've used all of those. There's aerospace. Yeah, yeah. There's some of the others. And they're just hacks upon hacks because Apple does not give you access

to the control room. So you got to bolt things on the side. In Linux, we have access directly to the control room. We can do whatever we want. We can fork the kernel. We can fork anything and make it work exactly how we wanted to, which I think that's going to be an interesting discussion about how we're broadening out who can fork,

who can change things. That's what's happening. But at least I could. So I could create Umachi with these beautiful components, with Arch as a blank sheet of paper with a good package manager. and Hyperland as not just a very functional system. I-3 is also a very functional system, but does not look like Hyperland.

Hyperland has also been created with flair and beauty and style, and it embraced the rising subculture, which I found just to be such an incredibly inspiring movement. Here are a bunch of people who make their computers look so bespoke, so like something out of a movie. And yeah, it used to take them dozens, in some cases, hundreds of hours to get there and they put a lot of pride into it. And sometimes it went a little far from my taste. It's a little out there and it's a little whatever.

But I saw that in that, if we just dial back like 20%, 20%, there's an unbelievably beautiful, artistic, compelling vision of what the computer could look like and how it could work. And if we took those pieces, put it all together, and made the installer take one minute, I believe we can convince the world to use it. I believe we can convince the world to switch to Linux. I believe the fortresses of Windows and Macs are open for the taking. I think the concern a lot of people have with tiling is they see something which is very keyboard-driven. And that is a very different kind of model than what you're used to do on Windows. Obviously, Windows has keybines to do a lot of things.

Macquess's key minds do a lot of things but the core foundational workflow of whether it be I3 Hyperland any of them out there it is keyboard driven and it's not as complicated as people think it is like you don't need to memorize

50 different keybines yes there's a lot of things which will certainly optimize your workflow but to get value out of the model you really only need to remember maybe like five or 10 different things and even then you can start to build a

graphical interface around that in a way that I think sort of eliminates a lot of that initial hurdle. Like the Cosmic Desktop, for example, they're trying to sort of blend these two systems together, both having a regular desktop environment

and also having tiling, and then trying to make the tiling in a way that is entirely mouse-driven as well. And there's problems with the model. It's complicated. But I don't think it's as difficult as people initially think it is when they, when they see someone just like, you know, spamming out key combinations. Like that, that's not something you're going to be doing initially. It's not something you need to do.

And you can customize it around what makes the most sense for you. But I also think it's important. And this is why I'm not so interested in the path that Cosping and others are taking, where they're trying to bridge it all and we can do both things and so forth. I'm more interested in putting a proposition forward. It's okay that it takes five minutes to learn a new computer. If those five minutes, or five hours, however it may be, has a return on investment, if you spending some time learning, as you say, five key bindings,

and then you amortize that over the next year, two years, five years, decades of increased productivity and increased the light in using your computer, it's worth the price of entry. And I'm not trying to say we need to reduce the price of entry to zero. I don't think that's the right option. I think desktop Linux for a very long time has tried to emulate what worked on the Mac,

what worked on Windows, to be as non-threatening, appealing, indistinguishable from people coming over. I think that strategy has failed. Or it has succeeded to the extent that it currently is. We've gotten

what we have from what we put in. I want to put something else in. I want to put in a new paradigm, not new, but new to many people of Tiling Window Managers. I want to teach them how to use the computer in a different way. And that's not going to happen with everyone. It's not going to happen tomorrow, but it's already happened to a tremendous number of people. And what happens when you don't just give people something they think they want, you teach them a better way. You level them up as computer users. They don't just go like, okay, I guess that's a little nicer. They go like,

oh my God, I love this. Because it's not just about getting a new computer. It's about me becoming a more productive computer user. This is something Kathy Sierra told me and taught me 20 years ago that if you can focus on leveling up your users, make them

more capable, smarter, have some trust that they're capable of learning new tricks, that they're not an old dog that they have the capacity again it's not everyone i'm not talking about getting 100% market share tomorrow i'm talking about the fact that i have faith in humanity's ability to learn something new including a new way to use a computer that it's just vastly superior so i want to stick to this idea that umachi is all in on the tiling window manager it is foreign it's a little different and it's why

it's taking off because we do not need another team of version of windows we have a lot of those some of them are nice. I'm not even ragging on that. I'm just saying that if we want to tackle Windows and Max hegemony on the desktop head on, we can't keep using the same tools we've got to this point. We've got to show up with bigger cannons. Hyperline is a very big cannon. It was hidden away, known by few and loved in that community, but we can 10x, 100x, 10,000 X, the number of people who get exposed to it and then they can get the same joy we're having out of our computers. And this is what fascinates me and invigorates me so much about uniting the nerds, as I like to call it, is that I think we have this experience when we use Linux.

We know that this is a better computer. We enjoy our computers so much. This is why we're passionate. This is why we have shows about it. This is why we're on subredits, right? We really like our computers. Wouldn't it be wonderful if that was a gift we could pass on? to someone else because there's a lot of people in this world who are not particularly fond of their

computers, including people whose job it is to work on those computers. And I find that just truly tragic. We should all have beautiful, fun systems to work with. And Linux can give us that. And I think Umachi can be a vehicle to deliver what is already there. Because a lot of the charges against Umachi is A, it's just a collection of dot files, which by the way, it was literally true. a year ago. Yeah, it was literally just an install script that you post and still with Arch. Which I didn't have any, I mean,

that to me is not an insult. I love Dodd Files. I think it's wonderful. There's nothing wrong with that. There's been projects that are quite popular in the past, like LARBS, for example. I don't know if you were ever aware of that. This was quite popular five or so years ago.

It was a post-instill script for Arch. That's all it was. No one treated anything, like anything more than that. And that's totally fine. I don't think there's anything. But it's also limited. It's limited. So there's only too much you can do.

So this is why I get the skepticism. I get the skepticism in the links community and you're like, well, these are just dot files. Therefore, they can only go so far. Therefore, it's not new or not interesting or whatever. Okay, okay, okay. I get it. I don't disagree with you. Also, update your priors when the facts change, right?

Like, Omachi today is in many ways the same spirit. It's the same motivation. It's the same aesthetics as the first. drop-up dot files. It's not the same system. It's a very different system at this point, and one that has the legs to go much further. And that's the point about even dot files. The amount of technical expertise and patience you have to have to just get dot files working if they used, let's say, 17 different programs was substantial, right? Like they usually do, because they're focused on, here's a set of configurations. You figure out how to apply that

to the system that there's. Usually you're making something for their own personal system. They're not making something that's intended to be shipped to other people. So a lot of people don't even tend to, they might upload them, but they don't even document what they're actually using. So getting, it ends up basically just being you having to effectively either rewrite or examine the entire thing to work out how to even begin to get it functioning.

And there's nothing wrong with that. Like that's a totally fine system. It's a great hobby. Sure. Yeah. It's a hobby I've had other people have had for a long time. I've had. I mean,

Omachi is now both my life mission, but it's also my hobby. And it started out just as the hobby before they became the life mission. And that hobby is really enjoyable for the kind of people who get excited about spending first tens and then it turns into hundreds. And then for me, it's turned into thousands of hours perfecting their system. I think it's beautiful. And by the way, even if Omachi succeeds to all my dreams, I never want that to go away. That is the sort of bedrock where the innovation happens. We need people who are just going like, I don't want something for you install, I want to configure my thing bespokely from ground up. And then I will look at what they built.

And if they come up with good ideas, I'll go like, I would like to borrow those. Thank you very much. I love that we do open source. Can I have it, please? And then I will build it into a system that the people who don't have tens, hundreds, or thousands of hours to tailor the system can enjoy the fruits of that innovation and that creativity and that beauty. And that's why I'm so passionate about this, right?

Because I feel like I've discovered these, these, these, these, these, rolls with the truth. And they were hidden in this small sect. And like these people, they had access to it. And it was great. And they were wise. And they were all the things. And like, but we can tell everyone about this. And then they also can enjoy all of those things. Now, I also understand that sometimes it's fun to have a hobby that is in a fixed community with players you know. There's some stability, there's some reliability of infrastructure and so forth. And then suddenly when the band gets popular and a bunch of people show up who didn't listen to them when they were underground and exchanged on cassette tapes, like they could seem

a little annoying because they're not quite like you. They're not quite like me. And this is, I think, what's happened to Arch. Because the great irony of picking Arch for Amachi is that we're at the polar opposite ends of the spectrum of what we want out of a computer. Arch is for the kind of people who do want to set everything up by hand, right? We didn't even have Arch installed, what, five or six years ago? I forget when that was introduced.

About that, yeah. But there was a time where Arge literally required you to do all of it by hand. And not only did you have to do it by hand, you had to know it. How old? 20201. Okay, so it's pretty recent. It's not that old. It's only five years old.

Prior to that, it was even more of like, hey, I get Arch, by the way, I get to say that because I've climbed Mount Everest. And there's some accomplishment in that, right? And then along comes Amachi and literally reduces the install time to the gorgeous riced, configured version to, I think our world record at the moment is 35 seconds. And I think we can get down to 12. That's a different thing, right? It's okay for folks in the arch community who are like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, that's not why I got into this.

That's not my hobby. I don't want pre-configured. I want bedrock. I want to build my own. And to them, I just say, like, I'm not trying to take that away. If you had the skills, the patience at the time to set up arch by yourself, maybe OMachi is not for you. Probably it isn't.

I mean, for some it is because they just ended up the same place I did. They ended up with the same opinions about what looks good. And they wanted to run hyperland anyway. And maybe they also like quick shell and this stuff. But for a lot of other people, it's not that. I'm like, that's the beauty of open source. We get to share these comments of the software, and you want to do one thing with it?

I want to do another thing with it, and we collaborate. And this is where things perhaps got a little heated. And I mean, I'll admit it, right? Like sometimes a little polarizing, right? And I'll cut things a little sharp. And especially if you take a soundbite that talks about clowns for 20 seconds, you can get riled up. I want the clowns as much as it is to be in the same space and work on the same.

things, right? I don't want the Umachi distribution nor the Amicom Foundation to be a circus. I want it to be a different kind of organization, but I want it to be for everyone. I want it to be a space where we can work together and just making beautiful, sweet, fun Linux stuff. And we don't have to agree on everything. Because if we have to agree on everything else outside of just what makes good Linux fundamentals, we remain a very small group because you can only find so many people, who are your identical, ideological clones. And in my opinion, it's just also not very interesting, right? Like, I like the fact that we can have people from all sorts of things.

And we don't have to talk about the things that divide us. We don't have to talk about politics. We don't have to talk about all these other things were quite quickly. Things could get heated. We can just go like here, here's a little house. When we go into that house, and we can call that house Linux. And we can even call a room inside that house, Omachi. We're just going to make it beautiful.

We're just going to combine our efforts to winning because there's other houses out there. There's one house called Windows. There's another house called Mac. And I want House Linux to win. So for that to happen, we need all the nerds. We need them together pulling in roughly the same direction. Not that we all run Amachi, not that we even all run Hyperland,

the tiling window managers. But we keep building on top of the broadest possible base. The broadest base is the Linux kernel. We've got 40 million lines of beautiful. code that has 40 million. Geez, okay. It's pretty big. It started at, I think, 100,000 was the first release that Linus puts out, and now it's 40 million. It is the biggest and most complicated and most important open source

project ever created. And that's our foundation, right? Let's just start for them. What do we agree on? Do we agree on Linux being good? If so, excellent. Step one, checkbox. Can we also, some of us, agree that tiling window managers are good. Excellent. Checkbox. Can we then agree that Hyperland is a good implementation of a Tiling window manager? Check, check, check, check. And then at some point, we end up with just so much shared stuff. That's all open source that people can reconfigure in all the ways they want to do.

I will do one configuration. I'm going to call it Amachi. I'm going to sign it. When you install Amici, it literally says beautiful, modern, and opinionated Linux by BHA. Like, I sign my work because then it's also very very, clear that this is one particular vision for what the computer could be. There should be many others. I don't want just this thing to be the only thing. And of course it isn't. But this thing is that.

And therefore, I have license to shape it in my image. And the people who resonate with that and respond to that and want to be part of that, they come along. And then we make something awesome together. And every single thing we improve, like for example, I raised $10 million in about five seconds. And then I started spending them about seven seconds later, right? I signed up such a factory. You can just work on Hyperline full time, do whatever we want. Signed up for premium sponsorships with QuickShel, also extremely important in the project. It's the same thing with Me's.

We're going to spend all the money. We just signed up an artist in residence for Umachi, such that people who work on just art and themes and rising can do things. I'm launching about two new competitions every day with various funding associates, system we can just have fun and grow this stuff up. All of these things benefit everyone, whether they like Omachi or not. If you just like, I want to run Hyperland on Fedora. Well, that's great.

Now, Vaxri can make it better for you on Fedora on Ubuntu. Well, I guess not Ubuntu. Can you run Hyperland on Ubuntu? I think there's a package for it. I don't know if it's updated, but Ubuntu. Maybe you can. Well, of course you can. You can compile it.

I don't know if there's a package. Exactly. You can do everything, right? Like, it's Linux. This is what I love about Linux. This is free open. of Hyperland. Ubuntu's Hyperland is extremely outdated. I don't think a lot of people are doing it.

I don't know of anyone doing it. No. And the reason why is that Ubuntu is kind of like Amachi in some sense. It has opinions about how things should be configured. And it's trying to reach its target demographic in that way with a relatively finished system. Like, it wasn't finished for me. It didn't have any of the software I wanted to use. So it didn't really in the end work for me. And I ended up creating this janky package management. on top of the fact that the repost didn't have any of the packages I wanted.

And if they did have the packages I wanted, they were out of date. So that was just not for me, and it serves a different purpose. And there's a bunch of banks and insurance companies. They also should run Linux. And Ubuntu seems like a great choice for them. So let them have that. Then let Umachi be this thing that leans into not quite the pleading edge of Arch. Like that's quite bleeding.

And I cut myself a couple of times along the way. We're going to just step back like a month, let's say, for stable and make sure that the system some doesn't. And then we're building some guardrails. We make sure we have snapshots. We make sure you can roll back. We're going to do a few things to make Arch a little less of a knife that's just going to or a chainsaw that wants to cut your head off, right? But all the progress, all the effort, all the money, all the momentum that's now pouring into a matchy.

It literally, I mean, I know this is a joke and this is why I'm making. It's trickle down economics. It's literally true. Here's $10 million. invested through Umachi and its vision, it's going to trickle down to everything. Like, $10 million is actually a fair amount of money. And that's not, that's just, that's what I did in 72 hours. Ah, that's not quite true.

We did $8 million in 72 hours and then did another two in a little long in that. Has anyone, I'm just getting, code you on. I'm just getting started. I mean, I'm not even, I'm just, you were just a sound bite machine. I'm just getting warmed up here, right? Like, and this is what. I was tweeting at whatever a week ago. I don't think people understand just how determined I am.

And maybe they're starting to like get an inkling of it. But I will show right. Like that's the other thing. I could say, well, I'm very determined and I would like Linux to succeed. And a lot of people will say that. I will say that too. And then I'll show you. And that's what I'm trying to do with Omachi.

Show not just Linux people. This is one of things like I haven't even. distro watch. It's not something I look at a lot. It's not something I'm focused on because for me, it's preaching to the folks who are already in the choir. I don't even know where amachi is. I don't even know if we still say we're arch. I don't even know if we report as omachi. That's not something I've spent a lot of time on. And the reason I don't spend a lot of time on that is because the mission here is not to just when everyone who've already figured out how to set up arch to use umachi. That's not super compelling because you only already have to good.

stuff. I don't need to sell you anything else. I want to liberate the Windows folks. I want to liberate the Mac people. I want to give them an operating system that's free in beer, in speech, in source, in ambition, in all of it. And then they're going to see that it's just much better, right? Even if you don't care about any of the things I care about and like all the little whatever, You're just going to use the computer and it's going to be a better computer full stop. It's going to be prettier. It's going to be more productive. It's going to be way faster to install.

I think that I can just say, like, as established fact at this point, I bought a million computers in the last year. In fact, that's how a lot is very unpleasant. How I got started with Amachi was I decided I was done with Mac after 20 years. I was breaking up with the Mac and I wanted something else. and then I had to find a new computer. And even two and a half years ago, I found that a little difficult because I've been using a MacBook for a long time.

And there's a lot of things wrong with Apple. Their hardware ability or their hardware finish, the product, that's not one of those things. The MacBook is a very, very good computer in terms of its hardware. And I couldn't easily find that in Linux land two and a half years ago and tried a lot of things. I just bought all the laptops. I was just like, let me order 10 machines.

And I kept setting them up, and I kept setting up Ubuntu. And then I kept running my little installed script on top of it, because that's already, I'm like, okay, I can't set up NeoVim for the 17th time here. I got to have these conflicts in some way. I could just run a single command. But even doing that, it still took quite a while on Ubuntu. And it's just, there's got to be a better way. So this was kind of the seat that got planted.

And now we're at this thing. I unwrap a new computer, which I do like once a week. And then I plug in my little USB key. and then in literally 40, two seconds later, I'm up and running. And, I mean, Founders' privilege here, when I'm up and running with Amachi, it's literally my system. I don't have dot files anymore. The dot files is the distro. And I mean, I think that's a wonderful circle of joke here about how things started,

and now people say it's dot files. I'm like, actually, you're kind of right. In some ways, you're kind of right. This is a system tailed with my dot files, but then it's also everything else, right? It's the mirrors. It's the repos. It's the custom applications. It's very soon the custom kernel, which we're going to come out with shortly.

We have all of it, right? Like I'm just digging myself through the layers until we'll get to Bedrock. And Bedrock is the kernel, right? Like that's what this show, in my opinion, means. Someone takes the Linux kernel. They packages up with applications, distribution, maybe some tweaks to that kernel. And then they go, here you go, here's the computer system, right? That's what we're going to do.

And that's a really exciting mission. And it's an exciting mission not just in enough itself. It's an exciting mission to me because this is a unique time. This could not have happened even a year ago. The window was not open. The game was not set. What has happened since the influx of AI, and I also know that's another controversial topic for a lot of people.

I did want to get to this with you because I've had plenty of people on here who are very anti-A-I. I had some people who are kind of like, they've sort of warmed up to it a little bit. This is one of the things that is brought up consistently, like about a marchie, against a marchie. Heavy, heavy use of this.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but basically your stance is you're all in on it? Or like, I don't know. That's the way it seems to me. Oh, I hope that's crystal clear. And if it isn't, let me reiterate, I'm all in on this. And by being all in of this, I don't mean that everyone has to be as AI pilled as I am. I think time is just going to solve that problem.

But whether it does or doesn't, we can still share even Umachi. When you install Amachi, you get one prompt that says, would you like to set up your default agent? If you dismiss that prompt and you do not install anything, it's Umachi without AI. literally nothing in it. You're not going to get these super cool crash watchers invitations to debug that with AI. It's not going to be there because I'm just going to detect you don't want an agent. Fine. You don't have to have an agent, right? But further than that, Quattro, the version that changed everything for Amachi, is the product of AI. I build it over the course of three months using heavy, heavy AI and agent acceleration. There's no way.

I could have written by hand. I think we have 50,000 lines of QML now to run the QuickShell and do all the panels and do everything. Well, I could have done that if I had, whatever, five years in a monastery to go be a monk. But that's not how I wanted to spend my life. I wanted to get the perfect operating system to me. QuickShell became very quickly the obvious vehicle for delivering. that in a way where I could guarantee that it was good, even though I was vibe coding. I know people have a lot of opinions about that, and I understand many of them.

I mean, I am a software developer. I've worked for 30 years. I built Rubian Rails. Rubian Rails has, I don't know, at this point, 7,000 plus contributors over the decades. It has generated more than half a trillion dollars in market cap from the companies that were started on it. Like, you can accuse me of a lot of things, but I'm not a rookie at this game. I'm very experienced. Maybe I have the wrong experience. Maybe I have the wrong opinions. Please argue that in the comments or anywhere else.

Also, hit like and subscribe. I'm giving you the line here. I'm not fully endorsed. Thank you. Appreciate it. And then comment, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. High feature on mobile, that's the thing as well.

What do you think about vibe coding? Put your comments below. I get it. I get that not everyone on it. Because you know why? I talked to Lex Friedman almost exactly one year ago. And I told them in a six-hour conversation about a lot of things, including AI. I don't like AI as it was at the time.

I don't want to have auto-completion be how I write code because I find it really annoying. And it's not a good way to live or wasn't for me. What changed it for me was agents that we're not trying. I'm not competing with the keyboard. With a fucking agent. Just constantly trying to. Did you mean this? Did you mean this?

Did you mean this? Did you mean this? And that's not what I enjoyed doing. Agents were something very different. And the facts change on November 24th for me. That was Opus 4-5. that was a clod code harness that was good, and the combination of those two things was a revelation.

It will be marked a thousand years from now, if we still exist as a civilization, November 24. That was the infliction point where things just changed. Now, there's many other infliction points. It's not the total net sum of AI, but it was where everything came together, and suddenly I saw agents be able to write code I wanted to merge, I wanted to use, that I could trust

verify but trust and then things just kept accelerating from there and three months ago when I started on quattro I think we had access to opus four eight maybe we had five five um some of these models and then over the summer we got five six soul and we got fable and we got obis five if you have not updated your priors to the progress that has happened over the nine months you're flying blind Now, that's also fun. I mean, you're up in the sky. Do whatever you want. If you pay attention and you update your priors and you spend some time with this,

you will realize that these models are not parrots. They're not packing birds. They're not just auto-completing. They are extremely capable software intelligences. However you want to define that, I don't care. The output is that I could write a system that includes 50,000 lines of QML that I've only mostly just reviewed. I've not written any of that QML.

All the QML is that. Now, that's not perfect QML. I mean, I've been talking to Outfox a fair bit since we connected. Like, he has some opinions about things that could be better. But I think even Outfox is actually impressed by how well the agents are able to write QMEL. Now, a Linux system is many other things. But right now on the desktop, we used to have, I think, 17 different packages.

that kind of did, there was some Waybar, there was some sway OSD, there was a lot of other things. And it was all a little brittle, not because any of those packages individually were brittle, but when you tried to put the whole thing into a system, it became brittle. 17 different configuration files and processes and blah, blah, blah.

QuickShall plus Hyperland gives us like almost everything we need to create the final system with two processes, right? You get one for Hyperland, you get one for QuickShall, that's it. Now, and even QuickShall, And Outfox will be the first thing to say this. It's as an individual process, not necessarily the most memory efficient. Like he wants to get it further down. I support that.

But when I contrasted to what we had to do to replicate what we now have in Quickshell, it's more efficient. We shrunk the ISO by like 30%. It went from 7.5 gigs to 5.8. Now, there are other things involved with that. And then I had agents help to optimize some of these things and so on and so forth. But we've ended up with the system we have today because of agents. I'm not trying to hide the wizard behind the curtain here.

The wizard is the AI. The wizard is the frontier level of intelligence. And we're applying that to Umachi development itself, to the debugging of it, to the security work on it. And we can talk about security too. It's an important topic. Definitely. And I'm allowing basically the user to be on my level. This is one of the things I always loved about Ruby.

I fell in Ruby in large parts because Matt's gave me a beautiful story that I could finish myself in the same fluidity on the same pages that he was writing. I could add keywords to the Ruby language through meta-programming in such a way that even seasoned practitioners could not tell the difference between what's Ruby and what's Rails. I want that for our operating system. I want the user to be able to tweak Umachi, even if they're not a programmer, even if they're vibing, and their contributions to their own personal operating system is unleveled with mine. I have no special privileges. I have no hidden APIs. This isn't Apple.

We're not gatekeeping this stuff here. You get access to everything. You get to change the entire system. And this is part of the revolution and why things are taking off the way they are with Quachotrol. When I checked yesterday, there were over 1,500 programs, plugins, that had been published to the Umachi Plugins.com repository. I would go out on the limb and say 99.9, maybe even 99% of those were vibecoded. And many of them were vibe coded by people who would never have written this software otherwise.

So it is enabling a whole new generation of people to be able to write software. There are a lot of complications with that. Is it secure? Does it run well? Does it crash my system? There are many things. We can fix all of it. All of it. And the reason we can, in part part, it's the same reason we're getting this explosion of contributions, the agents. The agents are amazing at fixing things too. I challenge. Actually, I shouldn't do that. I've sometimes put out challenges and people take up the challenge and then they're like, see, I won't challenge. I will just say there's a reason why you need special approval. from open AI to have access to daybreak. That's their cyber-powered version of the models that you can't just use on normal API access, right? They need to vet you because these models are so good. So unbelievably good at things like security reviews.

I think there's still a room for humans in that space, too, and they have to be driven either way, blah, blah, blah. The problems we're producing with this explosion of creativity and plugins and themes and whatever. In its first rickety Wright brothers taking off, yeah, do you know what? The wings are made of paper. Give me five minutes.

We're going to turn those wings into aluminum and I'm going to put a fucking jet engine on the back. And we're going to go cross-Atlantic. And then five minutes after that, I'm turning the thing vertical and we're going to the fucking move. And then we're going to populate the galaxy. So this is how everything starts.

We were not going to get Starship without the Wright brothers. I think we can compress the distance between those two events. Um, Amachi starting as a bunch of dot files with people bide coveting a bunch of stuff that's kind of like, just creaking a bit, right? And then getting to Starship lift off. And I think we can get there very quickly. I'm sprinting with everything in my bone and about, I don't know at this point. I mean, we shipped 100,000 ISOs last week.

I don't know how many people actually on Amachi. I don't have any telemetry. That's not how we do things. There's a lot of people using Amachi. And even more than that, there's a lot of people who use Amachi with such a passion that they're interested in helping us build it and make it better. And this is sort of meta point here. This is why I'm reaching out to everyone even calling me names and Amachi,

a steaming peal of shit and whatever. I just reaching out and go like, oh, did you find a lot of? find something, I want to make it better. Tell me what you found. Where's the shit? I'll clean it up. And if I don't clean it up, some of the experts we've now gotten on the team will help clean it up. One of the first things we did was incorporate a security team full of a bunch of people who have experience in this field. I'll admit it. I'm not a security researcher. I'm not a pen tester. There's a lot of things I don't know. And I guarantee you that a distribution put together that by me will have opportunities for improvement.

That is the corporate speech for things we could fix. Isn't that what we do here? Isn't that open source? Send PR, please. And now we have a great security team, for example. We have a million teams and I just spun up another three this morning, helping to make this better on all of it at the same time. When you do it like that, it turns out, lo and behold, you improve very, very rapidly.

This is why the link's kernel is this wonder of engineering. Linus did an insane, audacious, delusional thing back in 92 when he uploaded to an FTP server and new operating system, right? And I forget what the initial... Like, yeah, here's something little I made, like, maybe you want to check it out. I'm not... Won't be big and serious like Ganoo. Because at the time, this was like a few years after Ganoo had announced the herd kernel,

which whole mess there that got delayed till... after Linux and started. Right. Yeah. Big mess. We know this history. Ubuntu was a post-installed script on top of Debian, right? Everything worth anything started from humble beginnings.

That's just how it works. Cathedrals do not just erect themselves out of thin air. They don't just appear and then everything is finished and done. In fact, wouldn't like be boring if our participation was not created or required in creating beautiful things. I would find that dreadfully boring. The invigoration that I've been blessed with now for this project is contingent on the fact that we're not finished, that there's more to do, that there's people who have ideas and skills and competences to help us make it better. If we apply all that together, there is literally nothing we cannot do. The tagline and the reply

I'm doing on Twitter a lot is we can fix everything. That's not just a slogan, although I always I also think it's a great slogan. I'm going to put out the website at some point. But it's also just the truth and it's the mission. That's why I want to hear everything. Again, I don't care if you read a op-ed piece I wrote and you didn't like some of the politics. Fine. You could even have called me a fucking idiot or many times worse and I can still work with you. Now, after we start working together, I prefer if you don't call me a fucking idiot all the time. That gets a little grinding at some point. But it's not a stop. This is what it requires to unite the nerds. This is how we're going to take over House Windows. This is how we're going to take over House Mac. And nothing underestimate that. You combine those two companies?

What is it, $6 trillion, $7 trillion worth of market cap? What do we have? We have a crack kit in Poland named Vaxury and a pseudo-anunemous kit named Outfox, whose name I only learned like two seconds before we signed a very expensive contract. of support. This is the Rebel Alliance

and people are a little quirky, right? Like, I'd like us to have some style. I like the hand solo jacket. Like, we can all do that. But there's also going to be Jaja Bing's. He's also invited. Right? Like, we can all pull together here.

And we don't have to agree on anything. In fact, life is better when we don't. We just choose out of our own volition as free people that for this mission, I don't need ideological soulmates to sit next to me. I think there are three core issues that come up when we talk about AI. One of them is there's a lot of people in the Linux space especially who are these, I can you call them like artisanal programmers.

You know, they're the kind of person who, their goal isn't necessarily the end goal software. It is the process of developing the code. They enjoy the process of writing the code, debugging the code, going through all the documentation. Right. Like, that's a really big thing. You also have the security stuff,

and I have seen a lot of people be posting about, like, like, you know, there was the issue where you could go to a website and then you could inject a script into Amachi. Major problem, and my understanding that one's already been fixed by now.

Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah. It was actually, I think we actually had that one fixed by the time it was reported or shortly thereafter, because the thing with, security is that all holds are shallow, given enough eyeballs. And there's a lot of eyeballs right now, right? And there's a lot of people who love nothing more than to ret team for us for free

and then score some dunking points on X. And I'm like, all right, get the points. I'll take the fix then. And then how much it just gets better. So we shipped that out. That was 401. It fixed a bunch of these things. There's more things. We are not finished. But as always happens, or usually happens with these security issues, it just accumulates, right? You find five things. You fix five things. then you find maybe another five things. Now you fix 10 things. Just keep doing that every day for a little while, and now you fix 200 things.

And now the thing's pretty solid. Because this is the same problem Linux has. I saw the CVA, CVE count the other day was 132, I think, for a single day. Now, yeah. I don't know if you know the way the kernel actually handle CVEs. Basically, they treat every bug as a CVE because if it's a bug in the kernel. Yeah, if it's a bug in the kernel and it could crash the kernel, it's technically as an aisle of service.

So that's the way they approach it. I'm not saying this is a remote exclusion. Sure, sure, sure. A letter alarm thing, right? Just that like software has bugs, material complicated software has security issues. They all do. If you keep working on it, eventually they will have fewer. And it'll be harder and harder and harder and harder until it's very difficult to get an RCE in a zero day, right?

We know how difficult it is because they now trade at like millions of dollars. because they're very valuable. They're very valuable because they're very rare. Now, they're not as rare in Amachi right now yet because we just got going five minutes ago, but we're improving at a faster rate than any project I've ever been involved with. And Ruby and Rails took off pretty fast. Like, I've seen how fast some of these projects can take off. Never, ever in my life been involved with anything that's taken off as fast as Omani has since Quatro.

Because before that, we were doing good, right? Like we were steadily growing and like more people coming. And we had before Quartral Launch, we still had, I don't know, 25,000 people, 30,000 people on Discord. There was a medium-sized thing. And then there's an affliction point. And then it goes to the moon, right? And when it goes to the moon, like some of the heat tiles, they're going to vibrate a little bit. Some of them might even fall off.

We're going to fix it. We're going to land the rocket again. We're going to fix it and then we're going to send it up again. That's the process we're in right now. I'm recruiting people to the cost like there's no tomorrow. We're onboarding a lot of people every single day to be volunteers in this thing. And then we're also, I'm also running this thing that like some people are not just showing up to volunteers. They already have established projects.

And those projects we're going to support if Umachi depends on them. And it's important to the mission, right? So I'm, I'm struggling to find where any of these things are bad. Now, I'm not struggling to find why someone might find me a disagreeable person. I'm not struggling to find why someone wouldn't want to get some Twitter points dunking on things. I get that. I actually think a lot of it's funny. Like, we leaned in hard last week or this week.

Still this week. It's a little bit of a blur. I think it was listening. If I know what you're talking about. Oligarchy. Yeah. Yeah. Oligarchy, right?

Someone made that as a legitimate dunk. And I was like, damn it, that's funny. Because it's true. That's why the joke is so funny. This literally is the distrope for billionaires by billionaires. Right? You're like, that's actually pretty funny. Because that's not Linux, right?

Like, that's not usually how it does think. So we can laugh at ourselves a little bit. So I just went all in an oligarchy. We now have multiple theme songs. I had a theme competition that just ended yesterday. It had 39 themes. I'm half tempted to put one of them into the distro as one of the options you can pick. It's just funny.

And you know what? I'm going to change, by the way, the tagline right now for Amachi is beautiful, modern and opinionated Linux. It's going to change. It's going to be beautiful, fun, and opinionated Linux. Because the fun part is absolutely key. We've got to have fun with the computers. This is why I like computers so much.

I also like them because they're beautiful. I also like them because they allow me to do things. But I think the thing that keeps me in front of the computer, as long as it does, is the fun bit. That needs to be central to this experience. So the fun bit includes laughing at ourselves, laughing on Twitter, allowing other people to poke fun at the slightly ridiculous, implausible thing I'm trying to do here.

Again, I understand why people, even listening to this interview, I'm sure you will get it in the comments. You'll get it in the comments. I know it because I've seen some of the other videos, so you do get it in the comments. They're like, this fucking idiot. Who is he? He doesn't know anything. Don't you know that there was a...

Do you know it's bash? Do you know how much bash is in Umachi? There's a lot of bash. These are my two favorite ones are the bash and also the people that think you're someone who just came out of no... I understand, be like, oh, this is a new guy to Linux. Like, understandable.

But I have seen some comments who actually have no idea that you were the Rails guy and, like, just think you're just some random... Millionaire? Yes? I don't know what your net worth is. Random millionaire just showing up

who has, like, no technical background at all. Right. I mean, they're not entirely wrong. I mean, they're wrong, but they're not entirely wrong. And I think that's why it's interesting, right? I did just show up. As we just talked about, I've been on Linux and the Dessor for two and a half years. It's not a long time.

There's a lot of people in the community who've been here for a lot longer. I have tremendous respect for what they did to get us here. But, I mean, let me cook for a second on this pot over here. Then the second part is technical competence. As it just disclosed, right alert here. I'm not a security researcher. I am not able to find every possible exploit into it. And do you know what?

If you look through the codebase, especially if you look through the Git repo history, I'm sure you'll find some stupid stuff that even I should have known better. Like, okay, I make mistakes. When we go fast, I make mistakes. And there are some people who think, like, you shouldn't do it like that. You should go so slowly that you don't make any mistakes. Okay, that is one way of doing it.

I don't think it will get us to work. I want to go in a relevant time frame for my lifetime. So I'm going to put on the pedal here. I'm going to go fast. I'm going to make some mistake, but I'm going to fix him very quickly. And if I can't fix them, I'm going to find the person who can't fix them. And if I can't find a person who fix them, I'm going to find out how money solves that problem until it is solved.

Because as you mentioned, I've made a lot of money and I don't need all of it. And I can do this. This can be a thing that I just. do now and I don't need to get paid. In fact, I'm doing the opposite. Not only have I donated a million dollars of my personal money that I paid taxes on

to this foundation before the foundation is up and running because, I mean, I'm dealing in Hyperdrive here with agents that work very fast. When you deal with bankers and lawyers, it goes a little slower. And I'm trying to make them go a little faster. But until they get there, I'm just putting my own

personal credit card into everything. Like, you need tokens? tokens. You need hardware, hardware. Vaxury outfoxed. You need someone to guarantee this agreement we've just signed, says that if for whatever reason the foundation doesn't happen, you still get yours. I have personally guaranteed those agreements. I will be paying Vaxry and I will be paying outfoxed out of my pocket if somehow this doesn't work. And if somehow this whole thing blows up and there's no foundation tomorrow for, I don't know, whatever reason. We're already incorporated. We're already filed with the IRS. We have a lawyer. We have all of it.

We have bankers. But I don't know. I mean, things happen. Meteorites can hit things. If that happens, I'm still legally on the hook to fulfill the contracts that we've already engaged in. And I do so with a smile. Because that's the other thing that I find so curious. Linux is both the liberal underpinning of, I don't know, 10 trillion, 20 trillion, 100 trillion dollars in this economy and also the realm of the starving artist and the starving program, right? Like, there's a weird dichotomy. Now, part of this I actually think it's beautiful. I think it's beautiful that open source is not just all about money.

That it's not just a commercial job. That people do it for the love of the game, for the love of the code, for the love of the chiseling, right? just because they want to be part of something. I do not want to spoil that. That is why Omicom is a foundation, not Inc. It's not Omicom Inc. It's not for profit. We're not building this up to be a canonical competitor in that way, for example.

We're building this up to be a non-profit foundation that pours all the resources it takes in straight into the ecosystem for Umachi. And as we talk about, there's a lot of trickle-down economics. And it's going to benefit everyone. And I can do that because I've made a lot of money, right? Like this is this, I think I wish, I know it's not going to happen, but I wish. I wish we could get over this idea that like you kind of have to be a communist to run Linux. Like you can't be a communist and run Linux.

You can also be a capitalist and we can actually enjoy the same space together. I think we're going to have a lot of fun. I think we could certainly collaborate on things together. But to do things at the pace and ambition I'm doing it, yes, it does require money. It does. I mean, you could probably do it without, but it'd take a lot longer. Sure, sure. I realized I didn't say the third thing that I was going to say with a problem.

So, artisanal developers, and you sort of did touch on that before, right? I do want to get back to that because we didn't really address that fully. Well, let me address it just quick, and then we can move on to the third point. Okay. That's me. That's me. Have you heard anything? If you've heard any interview I've given in the last 20 years, you would have heard that story.

Me loving the chisling of code. That was what the conversation with Lex Friedman was about for six freaking hours a year ago, me going like, no, I don't want to AI. I love to chisel my code. I would sweat every freaking character. Rails is obsessive about aesthetics and beautiful finessing of code. I think it's a beautiful, noble, soon-to-be, maybe sadly, maybe not hobby. Or niche.

Right. We've just gone through an incredible period of the last, let's call it, 25 years, where being a programmer was, being a programmer hand crafting code was an incredibly lucrative career. That's going to change. It is changing. You can still be a programmer. You still build systems. It's not going to be as economically viable in as many areas to be writing the code by hand.

The comparison I like to often make is, you have the IKEA table and then you have the person who is making this like beautiful handcrafted work of art and yes most people are even though maybe the handcrafted work of art is a better table is going to last your entire life most people are just going to go for the IKEA table

because it's cheaper it is easier because they can afford it and this is going to be the other thing this is what this excites me a lot about this explosion so as I just mentioned there's 1,500 programs plugins for Amachi that's been created in like the last 12 days, right? 90% of those, I would guess, would simply not exist without AI

because the people who made them did not have the skills and did not have the money to buy the skills to build them. Programming is a very expensive endeavor. It got to be such a large industry because it's also a very valuable endeavor. If you had personal problems that could benefit, from programming solving them, you couldn't afford that because you were competing with meta. You're competing with Apple for the best programmers in the world to solve the problems. Now, I think it's beautiful sometimes when people realize that and then they teach themselves

how to program. Great. That's still a small section of people, right? What agents are allowing is a lot more people to have access to bespoke software. To me, that is the most beautiful way to fulfill the promise of open source. The reason we have open source is such that I had the right to inspect change, manipulate the operating system and the applications that run on top of it. But it was only a small class of clerics who had the connection to the deity that could do it. This is the reformation. We're disintermediating the computer user from the clerical class in their access to the holy computer. If that's blasphemy, my apologies.

But that's how I see it, right? Like we're going through this phase, and I am on the church wall nailing in a manifesto here. And I think what's going to come out of that is there's a lot more people who's going to have a lot more fun with their computer, and they're going to be able to let the creativity fly. These people are not a threat. You are allowed to maintain your love of handcrafted code.

I expect once I get out of hyperdrive here, I'm going to go back to riding some Ruby just for like the sheer sport of it. Do you know what? Just like people, they ride horses. They like horses. They go competitions with horses. They don't use it for transportation in the Western world as a general rule. We've replaced horses with cars or public transit or other things sometimes to our detriment. I don't know.

But also sometimes we're a little nostalgic, right? Yes, the homage do exist. before anyone feels like but what about the Amish people? Yes, we know where the Amish exist. Most people are the Amish. Both the Amish people, which actually tremendous respect for that, I mean, badasses who just go like, nope, this is how I want to live. But also, my point is more like you, you don't remember because none of us remember. I have read reports of what New York was like when horses was the mode of transportation. It fucking stunk. There was literally shit everywhere, right? So we can romanticize these things a little bit,

I think it's fair to say that software development is a little bit like New York, has been during the time when horses provided transportation. What an exciting place where things were happening. The horses are cute, majestic animals. There's also a lot of shit, right? Like, there's a lot of human code that is not pristine, handcrafted, chiseled by the maestroes of our industry. Not every programmer is Da Vinci or John Carmack, right? some programmers, they just get by with the skills that they have and produce the software we get in the result.

Not all of it is peak. So when we critique AI generated software, which we should, that's how it gets better, we should also compare to like, what's the median quality software? Like, what was the quality of software before AI? We only have to rewind the clock, let's say, two years. And then there was no AI in anything. Was all software golden, beautiful statures of supreme architecture and design? Come on, Adobe exists, Microsoft, right?

We just want to use a Linux example. If we move back to the days of X-Og before we're on Wayland, X-Og is notoriously a mess of a code base. It's a big part of the reason why we have this whole Wayland thing. People abandon that code base, and people who are trying to keep it alive now are really struggling to do anything to it without introducing 10 regressions for every new change.

Yes. So have some humility as a human programmer towards the fact that we didn't live in a golden age two years ago that every software piece of software is supermind. But still, license, card-carrying member, a person who likes beautiful code. I'm still working, when I'm working on Ruby and Rails, for example, and I'm having agents write things like,

I'm not stopping the prompts until the shit looks good, right? I'm not doing that on every project. I have other projects where people, literally vibe-coded the whole thing as a black box, right? There's a couple of applications in Umachi. There's something called umma cut for splicing or making clips out of longer videos that I found unneeded. There's something called Amacalc, which is the calculator.

Then there's something called Amarite, which is my homage to AI writer that I write all my essays in. All of these three applications are 100% vibe-coded. They are C++ plus QT. I've not looked at a line of the output. Now, some people will hear that, and they'll go like, oh, my God. It's not been reviewed by a human. No, it hasn't.

It's been reviewed by a lot of agents. Those agents are at this point very good, but it's also at a level of criticality where that's okay. I don't want the whole Linux kernel to operate like that. I want the Ling's kernel to Agent Accelerate, and I'm very happy to see that Linus is not in the camp of, like, no AI for any. and you look at the charts of agent accelerated or assisted PRs or, it's not even PRs, I suppose, patches to the kernel, then it is accelerating because this is just really good and really productive. And pragmatic people are attracted to that. Now, there's also room for the romantics.

There's also room for the ideological people. There's also room like Asahi, in my opinion is a great example. What an amazing accomplishment. Asahi has done to get as far as they have with the hand-chisling stuff, right? For anyone who's not aware that that is the project to get Linux running on the Apple Silicon Macs? They deserve a goddamn parade for the contributions. They also happen to be a project that in their official documentation, right now, if you look it up, say you cannot use agents to write code for Asahi.

And if you do, and they call them slop generators. If you call them slop generators, that's essentially like a code of conduct violation. All right. All right. Okay. You do that. Then also, let's get some other people involved who want to pursue the same mission. This is all MIT license.

I'll give us a great credit for that. It's not even GPL. It's MIT. Basically, you take whatever we build and you do whatever you want. So we will. We will. We will move things forward with agents. and we can coexist and I can both be

and both have tremendous respect for you and then disagree with how I think software should be built in 2026. You brought up MIT there and that's actually the leads this into the third thing I don't want to mention. A lot of the older Linux software is built around a GPL code base, built around GPL licensing.

That's the way that people did things in Linux for a long time. The idea of bringing in this sort of MIT approach that's a lot more common outside Linux in the more general open source space is a relatively newer thing in this space. And because of that, there's a lot of people who have a philosophical disagreement with the use of these AI tools because of the code mixing, the license mixing, where it's not fully clear what the legality of this code actually.

Is this still like an ongoing legal battle, ongoing legal discussions going on? What is the output of these AI? What license are they under? If the majority of the output is GPL, is that something that is still licensed in a GPL way? And right now, I think that's like one of the really big concerns, especially the sort of more traditional people in the Linux space have, where there's a lot of people going like full steam ahead with this,

and they're like, hey guys, but what about these licenses that have been like foundational and really important to the way things have always been done? I'm pausing just for a hot second because I don't want to produce a clip about clowns, right? These people are not clowns. Tremendous respect, right? Let's start with that just that if you clip, you have to skip over that. I think the GPL is a relic of the 80s. When was it incorporated 88, 87?

88 sounds right. 88. It is a relic of what, of its time. in 1988 programming was very precious, rare, and expensive. In fact, it was up until five minutes ago, right? In that time, I think it was very fair to go like, hey, if you use my stuff and you build on top of it, I want your additions. You've got to give them back to me because I can't afford to build all the stuff myself, so you've got to give it to me, right? It was a very scarcity-focused mentality, actually not that different from the commercial realm, right?

is also very scarcity focused. All the licenses, the commercial licenses are all about like, hey, hey, hey, I have this piece of software. If you want it, you've got to pay me. Preferably every year with a service contract and all the other bullshit, right? And then along comes another vein here, MIT, that says maybe code is valuable,

but collaboration of progress is more valuable. And we will have more collaboration, more progress faster if we don't have these restrictions and who can take the code and what they can do with it. That was what I built Ruby on Rails under. It's been MIT since the start. Everything. I've never released anything.

Actually, that's not true. We did a commercial project last year that was kind of sort of whatever. Everything I've done in open source, always MIT. Because I was always under the belief that if I make something and you find it good, you can take it and do whatever the hell you want with it. You just can't use my trademarks such that people get confused about whether. I made the thing that you made, right? So I actually, of all this law, the one I like is trademark law,

because that's about reducing confusion, and it's about making sure that people don't think I did something if I didn't do it. That just seems disingenuous. But the code itself, I want to be free. I think these individuals who are concerned about the legality are stuck in 1988, both from a, what's the value of this? like why is it worth preserving the GPL as a concept?

I don't think it has any value. If the Linux kernel was announced today, I'd hope it'd be MIT. I don't think we need the GPL anymore. But secondly, just from a practical perspective, as someone who have been involved with a fair amount of legal, this, that, and the other thing, just as the normal course of business, I sit on the board of Shopify.

It's not going to be a thing. It's not going to be a thing, because the other thing here is the legal system is incredibly slow and to as much as the legal system can do anything it is mainly that it can serve as a cudgel for more powerful people to beat you over the head if you happen to also be like a little buff have a little power have a little backing have the right friends have some funding that thread dramatically dramatically diminishes like all right so you want to sue whatever you want to sue hyperlipel because like there's some idea from I3 that you think was lifted over or whatever. Okay, well, Hyperland now has friends and those friends will take care of it. So I don't think it's going to be a problem. Now, I could be wrong. I mean, the SCO lawsuit was a bit of a problem, right?

And we had Oracle with Java and so forth. So I'm not dismissing that it could be a thing. I don't think it's going to be a thing. Right. Everyone I talked to at this level who would be interested in helping. If it became a thing is interested in helping because open systems are very powerful and they garner a lot of friends because a lot of people start depending on him. Linux is in that envious position. Now it runs the world.

No one wants a lawsuit against the Linux kernel because the world economy got that depends on it operating and progressing and improving. other projects of various stature can get on similar tracks, even if they're not as big, and it's much earlier and so on and so forth. So my best legal analysis, and I actually took a few law classes in college, is that this is just not going to be a thing. And that's also just a practical matter. So again, it's a risk. You disclose it in your public filing.

If you were a public company, this is not a public company. It's a nonprofit foundation. You want to sue a nonprofit foundation? Let's just take that as an example. Over this, you might as well just. go around kicking some kittens, right? I don't think it's just a matter of specifically Umachi here, Oumcom, or anything that you're involved.

I think this is more like a, a general idea around AI code. Yes. Yeah, it's like, it's not, it's like, it's like, a industry-wide thing where there's like a lot of, reason, I think reasonable concern over what is the legality of this code going to be? Because I think that is going to really define that, how different countries handle that. I think is going to define how much

how much they are able to fully embrace this technology and actually make use this technology. Bang on. And I happen to be Danish. I happen to have a great affinity for Europe. The EU is trying to do exactly what you're saying. We're just going to regulate AI

and we're going to tell them what they can and can't do and whatever. And like, how's that working out for you, bro? Not very well. Europe is desperately far behind when it comes to AI, the investments, the data centers, all of it. Now, some in the Europe might say, good. We don't want that stuff. We don't want a data center here at all. Okay.

Well, the people who then built the data centers and built them all is they're going to rule the fucking world. So you can sit there and pout. And then when the barbarians, as you might perceive, the Americans of the Chinese to be show up, what are you going to do then? it's not going to work out. And this is also why I have, it is not high on my list of priorities, like the legality around this,

because there's simply just too much momentum and there's too much importance for this to be a problem. And we've seen this even with the EU. So the EU has this privacy shield concept where they're trying to figure out how can we comply with the GPR as written and still do business

with American software and service providers, right? This has been in the courts like three times. And every single court, the courts say like, yeah, this isn't compatible at all. You're giving all this data to meta. You're giving it to Google. Read the GDPR for Christ's sake. These things are not compatible. And do you know what then happens? The European Commission goes like, you're right, but also you're wrong. Because if we stop doing business with America and we can no longer use their technology, we're back to the Stone Ages because we don't have anything. So whatever your legal arguments are, they could be correct. We're going

send it back to committee and see you for the for the next court case in seven years we're just going to fuck me so it ends up being this um i guess threat with no weight i guess correct correct and therefore it's not on my list of concerns i don't think it's going to matter now you have to distinguish two things legality and morality you may have the same analysis that i do under the legality question go like, yeah, it seems hard. They're not going to stop it. And then believe it's morally wrong for these companies to ingest code, train their models, and then sell them back to us for a premium.

I actually think, I can see where the argument is coming from. I don't agree. But I can see where the argument is coming from. I come from the argument. I come actually from the opposite argument. This is one of this wonderful things about AI. I am certain I could sit down with someone who holds the position that this is more. morally a crime outright, what Open AI and Anthropic is doing.

They're checking all these unpaid labor and they're putting it into the machine and they're selling it back to us a slob, right? Really putting it to the end. And then go like, I think it's a really interesting argument. We should talk about it. And then let me present the other argument. My argument is I'm thrilled that every line of code I've ever written has been ingested into these models such that when I use these models, there's a little stardust in of me. and the Rails code that they produce have been informed by how I like code to look like, right? That's a great pleasure.

It doesn't have any direct economic value. Like they're not sending me royalties for any of this stuff. And do you know what? I don't care. And maybe that's a point of privilege. Maybe I don't think I would have felt otherwise back in 2003 when I was sitting in my little fucking bedroom not with a lot of pennies to my name and just creating Rubin Reds for free because I licensed MIT out the gate.

because that's just how I see things. I can't see things differently. Let's have a debate. Let's have a meal. All fun at games. Let's see what all shakes out. I don't think it's going to stop anything. There are now literally trillions of dollars being invested into this adventure.

I happen to believe it's good because I've now worked with these agents long enough to realize that I don't want to trade. I love writing code by hand for 25 years. Glorious, glorious years. I will treasure them until the end. Now I have a new job. It's still technical. It's still supervision. It's still reviewing some code.

But I'm not writing it by hand anymore. And guess what? I like the job better. I don't think you could have convinced me about that a year ago. I think I would have said the opposite. I think, well, I did say the opposite. And then something happens. Things can update it.

And now I like my job better. We don't all have to like this transition. I would actually be shocked if we all end up at this boat. I know people I respect highly who have not ended up this boat who I've looked at the tools and go like, well, I don't want to use those tools. Okay. Yeah. No.

Yeah. I think I think I'm going to continue from that point. One thing we did talk about earlier and didn't really fully dive into was with the foundation. So this was another area where I think a lot of people were wary initially with, you know, you came in with a million dollars. then like seven other, nine other people, I guess now came in with a million dollars. Sorry? The oligarchy came in. Yes. Yes. And suddenly this massive injection of money, there was a lot of corporate weariness

that exists in the Linux space because, you know, Microsoft, how they've acted in the past, if you go back and look at Halloween documents, the early 2000s, late 90s. There were legitimate... Sorry? Embrace and extend. Exactly, yes. There were legitimate concerns that Microsoft at that time was trying to kill Linux and documented from internal documents.

They were trying to kill Linux. So I think a lot of people... Steve Palmer, Steve Palmer was out there and not hiding it. Linux is a cancer. Sure, yeah. Definitely, Barber, yeah, yeah. So I think a lot of people see that and see what happened with Omercom and immediately jump back to

this is going to be a corporate takeover. This is going to be something where like this is not good for the Linux space. Yes. I think that is a very fair skepticism to have and it's founded in historical evidence. So I'll allow it.

Let me tell you why it's not accurate or true. Amicam is a foundation, first of all. It's a nonprofit. it is started because I want to build the perfect computer. I'm on this mission to make Linux win. And I think the best way to make Linux win is to double down on all the beautiful, awesome parts about open computers and open source and whatever, freedom. And then pair that with the very best of the commercial world.

Like an instinct about marketing, an instinct about funding, an instinct about fundraising, all of these techniques can be employed for benevolent ends or for malevolent ends. I would argue that Microsoft had a phase where it was not doing it for benevolent ends, right? They had ulterior motives. And I also understand that when people see our lineup of billionaires, they go like, yeah, I don't trust these guys. I don't trust them. You don't have to. I'm not asking you to trust anything.

You can benefit from all this stuff, whether you use so much or not, whether you think these people are literally the spawn of the devil. What does it matter? The money is green. And as long as it's buying Baxury's time to work on Hyperland, you can enjoy Hyperland. And like, if you are somehow thinking that that ideologically taints the code, okay, that's your own voodoo adventure. Like, I have fun with that.

But you don't have to. You can simply just choose to go like, well, I don't agree with these people. If we sat down and talked politics or economics or any other topic, we probably not, I don't know, come to minds. Okay. Isn't this better? You're taking their money and applying them to things you like, even if you don't like him. I always like that. This is when people tell me like, hey, I go buy this laptop and like it has windows on it.

And like, do you know what? In a lot of cases, fucking Microsoft is paying them. There's incentives on this stuff, right? You're taking Microsoft's money to run Linux? Oh my God, you just got away with it. Why wouldn't you take Microsoft's money to then run Linux? Why wouldn't you take billionaire funding to improve Linux? And I mean, that's before, I mean, I don't even believe the analysis.

I actually literally know these people and vouched for these people and invited them to be part of this because I like what they do and respect what they've built. I also think that there is historical precedence for this. The Rockefellers, the Vanderbilts, they built fucking parks and hospitals and libraries for benefiting everyone. And you could say, well, they earned their money in a dirty way. Yet you know what? The library is still the library. The park is still the park. The trees are still green.

We can do the same thing here. You do not have to jump on board with. who's funding this? You don't have to morally sign off on this before you can go like, well, I think this might be a little bit good for Linux. I think this might benefit everyone who likes to town window managers. Maybe I'm even trying Amachi. I mean, this is one of the things I really enjoy about this is when someone who I don't agree with at all on X other topics, come to the realization that they can actually use Amici and like it, even if they legitimately don't think I'm a nice person.

Like, that actually is like a really winning state to me because this is how we get to this final end that like we share the comments, right? You don't like certain things. You don't like me. Let's just stop. Right? Like, not any wise. Just you don't like David, DJ, whatever.

You can still like a machi. I have also, I use things all the time where I'm like the monitor I have, it's an Apple 6K XDR. I'm not greatest fan of Apple these days. I disagree with them dearly about a lot of things. You know what? It's not going to prevent me from keeping a monitor I bought five years ago because it's still good.

So when it comes to the funding, obviously you're doing funding of QuickShel, you're doing funding of Hyperland. I think one of the concerns... Those are the three... Oh, sorry, yes, Emmys. I think the concern a lot of people, at least right now with the announcements

that have been made have, the funding is only, if you're not using those like three pieces of tech, all the rest of the funding is only really going to be benefiting people directly using Amachi. And obviously you can't really commit to anything that you've not signed contracts for anything.

But is the plan to support more of these general low-level components? What is the interest around the funding? Like, is it just, supposed to be benefiting Amachi?

Is it supposed to benefit these, like, what's the goal here? Let's start with the premise because I think it's amazing and it's really fun. So when these arguments are raised,

they usually, like, they're one paragraph down from like, these fucking billionaires to come in here with their money and then they're just like, I don't like him. And then the next second is like,

let me tell you how to spend these billionaires money. You can't do both of those. You can't both be like, this money's bad. And then, And also, I want you to spend the money in this way. Those are not compatible positions to hold.

Like that's Schrodinger's funding cat. Like be in one place or another. Either you don't like the money and you don't want it touching anything, which, by the way, the arch people and the AUR people, they did. I respect that really dearly. And no irony, no slash s, no sarcasm. I tried for a long time. from right when Amachi got started, can I help?

I couldn't even get a line of communication. And then I put out a call on X the other day. I asked like, hey, one more time. How can we help? We now have a lot of funding and so forth, right? And then I still didn't hear it back from anyone, but I heard. Yeah, yeah, I didn't stop the recording. You were saying, um, arch funding.

Yes, arch funding. So, oh, it just blipped real quick. I think it's a connection issue. I see you now. Anyway, I'll just go. And if it blips, we'll just do it again. You can cut it out. Or not cut it out.

I think this is also fun. If you guys do you know what's fun, as we started, I'm like, I can't hear you. And I was just about to blame Linux because that's the joke, right? Like the sound doesn't work. The Wi-Fi doesn't work. The Bluetooth doesn't work. It was just the Chrome hadn't gotten permission. Right.

Anyway, anyway. So I put the call out, right? Can someone put me in contact? with the arch and AUR people. And I don't hear back from any of them, but I hear back from a person who has contact, they take the invitation to the elders, and the elders say, no, thank you.

And I go like, okay. I mean, I think that's actually very admirable. Like you just go like, nope, we're doing our thing over here. We're not actually interested in funding. Maybe we don't need the money, maybe we don't like the money, whatever it is. Great. Okay, so we're not doing that. Then let's do some other things, right? I'm going to, I see Umachi as a pyramid.

Right up at the pickety top is the user experience. That's almost the only thing I care about. Right. Like, whatever enables that, that's my North Star, right? I want the system to feel like my ideal perfect computer. I'm very amenable and become more amenable the further down the pyramid we move. Like Hyperland, not super amenable there. I love Hyperland. Probably not changing that out. There's a lot of people with like, can you build like it with Neri?

No, we're probably not going to do that. I don't see the Amicom Khan Foundation sponsoring Neri because that just, that's not part of the period. That's another period and someone else could build another period. And we can also collaborate on a bunch of things. There's other things in both of our periods and we swap pieces. Just that piece?

No. Quick Shell. Same thing. We like Quick Shell. I don't see us changing that bit out. Not much further down. we're going to be below what I call the waterline, where all the bits are interchangeable,

like Arch itself. I mean, yeah, okay, I put it in the name. It's not foundational. It's not foundational to what Amachi is. O'Machi could run on any other distro, not in the sense that you should be able to install homage on every other district. I don't want to do that because I want to make something.

I want to have one integrated system that I've signed off on, and I can't be bothered. not bothered. I don't have time in my waking hours to sign off quality on multiple distros for this stuff. And I don't think we need to. And what would be the, yeah, what would be the value in you have an arch base, you have a fedora base, you have a Gentry base. Like the difference there is very minimal. And my whole mission here is to actually make it such that this becomes plumbing. Like beautiful pipes, but like I just want to wash my hands. I don't need to get down there with

the red. Sometimes I do. because it's clocked and then I'll get down there with my wrench. And most of the time, I just turn on the faucet, water comes out. I wash my hands, right? But I do care about the faucet. I care about the dampening of how we open the thing. I care about the flow, all these things. But the rest of the pyramid, I want strong, I want solid.

We're going to invest in a bunch of it. In fact, I've jumped straight down to the foundation layer and working with people who are working on the colonel, this was what I hinted at at the start, we're going to build our own kernel, not because I like the vanilla kernel. We have a few things we need in, and currently we're running.

We're shipping actually Amici with three kernels. We have the vanilla kernel. We have the T2 tweak kernel for vintage Macs, and we have the Linux-PTL kernel that has some specific patches for the Dell-XPS machine that needs them for things like the LG panel and so forth. Right. Three kernels. Pain of the ass.

And takes up space, whatever. If I have someone with a high enough competence that they can bring all that stuff together and also bring in some other things, like the cacheOS guys have some great ideas about certain ways to tune things for responsiveness when you're not making server software but end user software. Let's borrow some of those ideas. Let's bake it all in to one kernel that can satisfy all those needs. I'm not going to do that until we have someone who knows how. the base layer of the pyramid works.

And then when we do that, I'm very willing to invest in that. And then I'm willing to invest in all the other pieces. Now, not to the point that again, we're building Amacom Inc. I'm not trying to get a bunch of employees. In fact, the ideal state of Amicom Foundation is that many employees. I don't know if that's possible. Depends on how much money we raise and so forth.

I mean, I'm here serving at the pleasure of the mission. Like, I am the president of the organization. I'm currently also the secretary. And I will take out the trash if that's needed. And I will pay the foundation a million dollars for the goddamn privilege. So that's what we're at. I'm trying to see how long we can get that because I do not want this to turn into another institution with a bunch of committees and a bunch of other stuff that doesn't.

I mean, I heard one quote. And again, I hate even quoting this because it's so easy to take out of content. A tremendous tremendous respect for the Linux foundation. I just start with the land acknowledgement here. Then we all know that I'm jaded. I thought I heard that 2.7% of the budget went to funding Linux developers. Something like that. Maybe you can fact.

The Linux Foundation is a weird one. Like, it's the Linux Foundation. Maybe that's not what they've set up for. I don't even want to present it as a cheap. Right? They have other things. And Linux needs other things. And that's good that they do all the other things.

But you know, that's not what I want to do. Like, I want to be able to, like, if I was on Charity Navigator, and maybe we're going to be on Charity Navigator, I want a AAA rating. I want like someone looks like for the amount of funding that goes in, how much funding goes to the projects, goes to the developers, goes to the artists, goes to the infrastructure, goes to the marketing, even. I'm not against that one. I think some Linux people are going to chafe us that one, right? But we're going to do all of those things.

I want as much of the money to flow through as efficiently as possible. But also, I literally just raised $10 million. five minutes ago, give me a minute. Sure, sure. No, I think that's a reason. I wouldn't expect all of the money

to be allocated immediately. Which, by the way, just real quick, I intend this money to last. We're not fucking blowing it in a year. Like, my internal head here is all the money we raised now has to last for five years.

So I think I've raised $2 million. Fair enough. Okay. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah. I think, I think the concern a lot of people just have is because that hasn't, you know,

you didn't come with a game plan immediately on where everything is going to go. Yes, I did. This is the thing that blows my mind. You don't have like a list of 30 projects you're immediately funding. Because of what I mean by that. I announced three in four days.

Sure, sure. I think the pace is pretty good here. And we're going to announce a bunch more. In fact, four. So we did the three. projects and then we've done artist and residence process, which to me is just important. We're not just making technology here. We're making art. And we will be patrons of the arts. That's why, also, by the way, the founding patrons are called patrons. First of all,

because they donate with no strings attached. This is a charity. It's literally legal to do quit pro quo in that fashion. So that should establish the banish line. But also because they're patrons of the whole thing, including the arts. We will build museums and monuments to rising culture. So that's part of it, right? And then the other part of it, like, the money's going to last. We've got to build a bunch of infrastructure. We're now speed running towards a foundational distribution at the same level of Debian and Arch and whatever, right? We're not going to get that tomorrow. And I'm totally, I'm very happy bootstrapping, right? We started with the dot files, then it became the Git repo, then it became an ISO, then it became a ISO. Then it

became packages, then it'd be, and in time, it'll become a foundational distribution with its own packaging and distribution. So you actually want to take this further than, you know,

where it already is. Like right now, I would say it's a roundabout like that, that point where it's like, you know, on part of those distros like, I'm not saying on poorly from, that's not the point.

I think no offense. It is a distro in the same sense of something like a Mangiaro, Cash US and Deverews is, where it is taking the Arch Linux base, it has additional repos, has additional packages, all this stuff, but your plan is to go further than that and

turn it into its own thing, more akin to like, you know, what Arch Linux is right now, where it is its own separate distor, even though it might have been based on something else in the past. Correct. We're going for full sovereignty. Full sovereignty.

Full independence, full vertically integrated, systems and I believe anyone who's serious about a distro needs to control their own packaging at some point or another I'm not saying that's tomorrow the 10 million dollars is not going to be blown by Tuesday we're going to invest in the long term to make this happen and I am involving everyone by the way now I'm reaching out to everyone from fucking anon's on X with 120 followers to billionaires to trillion-dollar companies. And I'm having great conversations with all of them. Because this mission, as I say, is foundational to me. This is now my life's mission. And I take that very seriously.

And therefore, I also, I want to look at the stars. I want to go like, yeah, all right, we just took off for the right brothers at this moment. I've set my sights on Andromeda. So, I'm not going to wait around seven generations to get there. It's got to be in my lifetime here, right? So we're going to get from the Wright Brothers to Adromeda in some amount of time, and I'm going to run as fast as possible, get as many people as possible on board, do it in a proper, professional, even courteous way. In fact, and let's address that I think elephant is a great metaphor, this circus,

that elephant in the room. I should not have called them clouds, actually. Because do you know what? It's just counterproductive to the mission. And sometimes you can think things in your head, and you don't need to say all of them. Do you know what? I'm still working on that. Still working on that.

I don't agree with the circus and the politics and the governance, but you can make those arguments in a less antagonizing manner such that the people who are currently in those structures or even working with them, don't have to see you as the mortal enemy. I don't like I'm working on that. I think we're making progress. That's why I'm reaching out to us. Again, I say even Anon's on Twitter with 120 followers, just to have that conversation.

Because to me, as tempting as it is in the moment, and I guarantee you I will slip up at the future. I know myself well enough, right? There's going to be something that slips off here. It's just not important enough compared to the mission. And the mission requires that for Linux to win, We have to unite the nerves to a substantial degree. Don't have to be under the same tent, not even under the same banner,

but we've got to march towards the same front line. And then we can have our own colors and our own whatever. I think it's great. But we march towards the scent line and we keep the internal friction to a minimum. I actually think that it has historically been one of the main issues for Linux, that there has been a lot of internal strife. And some of it is just because the nerds get fallen love. with a certain technology, then I think they're right about everything.

I don't know where that comes from. I know exactly what comes from, right? Like, I have the same tendencies. I have the same instincts. I understand all of it. I also just think there's a greater mission now. There's a greater enemy and there's a greater moment. This is what's so true, right?

Like Linux people historically for 30 years, I've been the biggest fans of Microsoft, right? Or Windows. Or close software in general. Okay. If that has been your guiding enemy, your arch enemy, for 30 years, you should be so excited about right now. This is finally the moment where they're stumbling. They're not transitioning well at all to the new age of agents.

Maybe not either. But then you can take some solace in that your mortal enemy is doing worse somehow. And they have a trillion dollars to spend on this and they still can't figure it out. And again, as I said, we got crack kits in Poland who was running laps around them. So embrace the moment. Let water flow under the bridge and just let's pull in the same direction. Let's show up at the same front line. You mentioned bash scripts a couple of times in here.

I did before we started recording this, I did see you talking with people about possibly messing around with Nick stuff. And I obviously that's like just started happening like. 30 minutes ago as of recording. It's actually, it has a longer history. In fact, it goes all the way back to the inception of OMachi. When I published OMachi in summer of last year, one of the first people who got involved with wanting to do something with it was a person who rewrote the whole thing in Nix.

So turned what I had, my dot file compilation, I think it was called, I'm sure you can find it on, on Get Up Somewhere. I mean, it fell out of update very quickly because, I mean, I was moving quite quick. I know there's a couple of different iterations. There's multiple now. There's Amonix and there's this that and the other thing. Great, wonderful.

Let's get all the experimentation in the world. But the point I actually wanted to make was Toby Lodke, who is one of my very best friends and my co-conspirator here with Umachi, both the Amokan Foundation. He was the first person to sign on to it. He's part of Umachi core. He's my racing buddy. He's, uh,

Whatever. We share a lot of things. There are no secrets about the bromance there. He's been Knicks-pilled since the get-go. He's been nerd-sniping me with Nick's propaganda since the beginning. And at Shopify, they use a lot of Nix. They do things for their dev environments and so forth. They have a lot of Nix wizards over there. So it's entirely natural that there's a lot of people that are interested in.

Then on top of that, just unrelated, a bunch of people I really, respect. Jonathan Ringer, I believe is his name. I've been following for a while, who's doing a bunch of Nix packaging and so forth. A lot of people I just look at and follow and go like, these people are pretty smart. If so many people think that Nix is so great, I'm humble enough to realize that maybe I just don't get it yet. I've looked at Nix Lange. I've looked at the configs. I've watched a few YouTube videos. And whenever I do that, I go like, I don't seem like I'm that kind of nerd. And then I think back, I didn't think I was kind of Linux nerd. Three years ago, maybe I could become a Nix kind of nerd. Now, I don't want any of this stuff

to bubble up to the surface. Right. So I'm open to the idea that at some point when Umachi no longer has the arch in it anymore, right, then if that happens, I'm not declaring that, but if that happens, then it's NICS that's in there. If Nix makes it easier, better for us to deliver this beautiful system totally opening at looking at it now what i'm not open to doing is to give up sovereignty to some of the existing and now i'm weighing my words carefully here let's not make mistakes again that i just made right existing institutions with whom i may disagree about governance issues in linux not going to do that like we're on this mission for for full sovereignty and getting to bedrock but in that nix lang

the packaging technology, not necessarily the packaging source. Exactly. Exactly. There's technology here that I don't even have to look at to know is legit, just by the number of people I deeply respect who have looked at it deeply. Bactuary, outfoxed. These people also nix pilt to various degrees. Obviously, tremendous respect from that.

And this is a lot of what I do, by the way. When I come to a new place, I look around. I find people who I think are smart, then I follow them for a little bit to sort of bet that instinct. And then if I decide, yep, this person's smart, they know what they are doing. I look at what they do and I allow them to convince me. Because I don't know anything.

And I have strong opinions, but they are quite weakly held. Like facts and arguments and proofs of concepts change my mind all the time. This is one of the reasons I love computers because I get to evolve. And if that evolution, should end up with Nix being the package manager from Machi? Wonderful.

If I get more of the things I want out of my perfect system, wonderful. Let's do that. I'm probably not going to be the person who writes whatever, the Nix Lang integration stuff, but also we have a big tent. Everyone's invited. Literally my inbox is right now full of, I think, 60, 70 people who have experience with packaging either in Nix or other things.

Then I have labeled P-K-G-S packages. I need to get back to it. So if you're watching this, then apologies if I hadn't responded yet. I got a lot of mainbound. I'll get back to everyone. And then we will set up a team full of serious, competent packaging veterans who will help build Omachi Cinque. This is how I think about it.

We have Omachi Quatro, current version. It's built on Arch. It has the things. We're going to make it better. We've already announced a bunch of features. It's going to keep shipping for a while. Then the roadmap already, I love the metaphors here, right? Quatro, it's a car, the Audi.

Now we have a roadmap, and the roadmap is going to take us to Chinquay. And the Chinquay is the name of a Pagani model. And it's all beautifully connected. This is one of the things that's a great care and joy, and it's picking just the right project word, just that everything seems like it's a little clever. And when we get to Chinquay, that's an opportunity. That's an opening.

The board is fully open for reconfiguration for Chinquay. When is that landing? I don't know. It's not my main focus right now. I'm spinning up all these groups with really smart people who can help figure it out. And if they convince me that we can achieve the objectives that I desire with Nix, Nix it is. Yes.

One of the things I saw you post about. the other day was a, I don't know if you remember you, you were on Twitter all the time. The post you made about Dropbox from a couple of days back, the whole idea that a lot of people, a lot of people in, like, within a market, a lot of the users in that space don't necessarily know what it is that will get people interested in it. The point you made with Dropbox is, you know, people were saying back then, oh, you can just set up like an FTP server, like, it doesn't replace a USB drive it and then people didn't know how

some like Dropbox would even be monetizable and now Dropbox I don't know what the market cap is everyone knows what Dropbox is. Billions of dollars. Yes. That to me is actually what I remind myself of and I don't even use the Dropbox example in my head I use the

no wireless less space than a Nomad Lane And I don't say this to dunk on Commander Tacco, the editor of SlashDOT, who uttered that phrase when the iPod was announced in 2001, 2002. I don't even know when it was. But that encapsulates the same thing you just described, right? People looking at Dropbox and going like, this is stupid, I could do it myself. Well, okay, yeah, you could. Not the rest of the world.

You're special. You don't notice? You don't know that you're special. I think you know you're special. This is why you like computers, right? And you're good at computers and you take pride in that. You just need to translate that into the fact that you're not like everyone else. And everyone else just want something that's simple and easy and works better.

And Dropbox is phenomenal. I've been using Dropbox literally since it was announced. I think my account is stamped 2007. So I'm almost going on 20 years. And Dropbox was instrumental in me. moving to Linux because to move to Linux and actually commit, you need to have your data. And if it's a pain in the ass to transport your data, it's going to remain a curiosity. You're not going to do it.

So I moved to Linux. And the first thing I was so happy to see was that Dropbox actually had a Linux setup. Not everyone does. And I set up that integration and zoom. All my data, well, sort of zoom. I have whatever. gigabytes in it. So chugga chugga and then it was there and I had all my data and I could start using it for real, not as an experiment. And that's really important. This is one of the reasons I built

in Dropbox integrations. Like if you set up Dropbox in Quattro, you're going to get a bespoke QML Dropbox panel that I hand-bibed with how I wanted and it's going to be a nice experience. And it was the same reason I reached out to Drew Houston, the founder of Dropbox, and said, like, hey, big fan. Been using Dropbox for 20 years, build all this stuff in. We'd love to have a million dollars from you if you'd like. And it took a little while because people don't always check their Twitter DMs I found. I mean, I do neither. I mean, we just had this problem this morning.

If I'd had a notification, I wouldn't have been rude and late. but Twitter's on the Twitter thing Twitter is really bad at notifications I've just I've noticed recently they just do not give me a ping for DMs I if I ever get an audience with with Mr. Elon

I'm going to ask him why why can we not just have a notification why is there not like a counter why can I just I don't know how to do it they got rid of it a couple months ago okay maybe there's a grandmaster plan that I'm just not smart enough to understand maybe it's just broken

there's a lot of software that's like that But either way, I finally got in contact with Drew, and he was like, I don't usually do this, but here's a million dollars. So there's a close connection here, and this is part of what I'm trying to do. I've already set up mostly my ideal system, right, and it has all this commercial stuff in it. It has Dropbox. It has one password. It has Spotify. And some of these things it doesn't have.

It has installers that I've carefully curated. So it's super easy. Like it doesn't have one password, for example. Like the package is not into the stroke. That's one of the ways we shrunk it from 7.5 gigs to 5.8 was we took out some of these packages because I thought whenever I'm setting up an internet service like OnePassword or Dropbox or Spotify, I need the internet. And if so, I'm actually not inconvenienced by having it part of an install flow instead of a pre-installed flow.

because I still have to put in my credentials. I still have to set things up. And in fact, we improve the one-password integration over having it in the box. So I ship one-password in the box with Amachi up until Quadro. And what I would do, I'd set up a new machine. It would have the one-password integration, right? But then it wouldn't have the Chrome extension.

And then the first thing I would do on every install was I would do the things, go into the Chrome extension store, search one-password, find the thing, add to Chrome. Do you want to switch to Chrome? No, I don't. I want chromium, so stay with that. And I was just like, this is the stupid shit I've been trying to avoid here. And then it just turned out that serendipously, when we have an installer at the install time,

it's easier to do the Chrome extension. And then the next time you open your browser, after it's done all that, it's installed for you. So it pans out. But we have all these things. They are commercial services for-profit companies, in many cases worth billions. Maybe you don't like them. Maybe you don't use them. That's more than okay.

Not only are all these services, Spotify, OnePassword, and Dropbox. None of them are installed anymore. By the fault, like the packages are not in the ISO. They have installer flows. I use all of them when I jump on. You don't have to trigger those install flows. On top of that, we have a bunch of other pre-installs. There's some web app wrappers.

I obviously use, hey, for all my email and my calendar because this is my company, is what I do, and then I use base cam for everything, and I want all those things when I open my computer after installing things. So there's two little web app wrappers there. And there's web app wrappers for Google stuff. I am not always the biggest fan of Google. Like search Google DHS, and you're not going to find

just fucking flowers and sunshine. You're going to find a lot of criticism. And in that criticism is still a capacity to say, ah, do you know what? Google Photos is actually pretty good. Google Maps is really convenient. These are good pieces of software. I'm going to use it even if I don't agree with Google on everything.

I'm going to put them in Numachi as default. So we have a bunch of things. And this is the other thing that always comes up, right? What is it? It's the dot files. I'm just trying to hit all the objections here, right? It's the, uh, what were we all the time? Anyway, one of them is bloat.

Yes. Right? Yes. A bloat. And the funny thing is, like, I think we're actually smaller than Ubuntu at this point. I think Ubuntu is six. I, what did you say the size of Amachi was? 5.8.

five. I think just barely. Maybe we're matching. Ubuntu desktop is 5-9 right now. Boom! Fucking boom. We are smaller than Ubuntu, and we actually ship with the software you want to use. So,

I've been meaning to look that up. Thank you, Brody, for bringing me this morning delight on a beautiful Saturday that we are now smaller than Ubuntu. because this bloat argument, that was one I was getting to, is a little silly. But it's not that silly.

I like efficient systems that are quick download, fast to install, doesn't suck up a necessary bandwidth and whatever. But I put that on one side of the scale. And then on the other side of the scale is I want my computer to have everything I need when I'm finished installing it. And that's one of the key reasons why it says, beautiful, modern, opinionated Linux by DHH.H. I am first before anything else putting on my own mask.

And my own mask is a system that has everything I need when I unwrap it from a retailer. I just did that. Now, I know at this point, I am morally obligated to Shill Dell. I also just happen to Shill Dell because it's my favorite laptop. I use the XPS 14. This is actually what I'm running. And if Michael is watching along here, take no offense, Michael.

I still love you. And we're going to make great things. But I did just buy this thing. This is fucking, this is a thing, right? It's not a fancy thing, Pat. It's not going to be my main system think, Pat. But I could buy it from laptops. DK with a matchy pre-installed.

When I opened the box for this machine and like, did this. It had the Umachi setup installed and was ready for my credentials. This is one of the things I'm very proud of in Quattro. You can set up Umachi on a machine for another owner. And when that owner fills in their username, password, whatever credentials, it will re-encrypt the drive with a luxury keying. And now it's their machine.

You can do this in reverse too. So let's say once I'm done playing with this thing, Maybe I want to pass it on. Maybe it's going to be part of a competition. I have a lot of computers. I need to give some of them away. I can't have all of them. I'm going to give some of them away.

And when I do, I don't want them to find my stuff because I put stuff on it. This has Dropbox stuff, right? So I want to factory reset things. I don't know if a lot of other districts that have built-in factory reset flow where from within a menu, you can hit factory reset,

and then it returns you to out of box OEM installed. Maybe they do. This is actually something that is being worked on a couple of projects. I know KD Linux is working on this. I think... We shipped it. We shipped it. We shipped it. Fadorra, I think, is working on a flow as well.

This is something which, like, a lot of people realize it's actually important if you're going to be selling devices that have all the things installed. It's... It is the thing. In fact, there was one other Slim Book. Shout out to Slim Book. Actually, I want to shout out so bad that... One second. Oh, there is.

Shout out to fucking Slim Book. Mm-hmm. Facebook is a Linux-first company out of Spain. I happen to have lived in Spain for many years, so great affinity there. Actually, really nice machine. They sent it to me to work on compatibility work. It did have some issues with the Ethernet driver port. It needed some configuration stuff out of the box to be able to work.

And what was the other thing? There was one other thing. I forget. Anyway, they sent it to me, and I was like, awesome. And then they were the first, SlimBook were the first, where you could buy a Slim Book and get it pre-installed with Omachi. And they did it before I built this other thing. So they did it in this other way.

They sometimes do for other Linux distributions. You can go on SlimBook and select Omachi as the option. And they just installed it. And then they like, here's your username and password. And I'm like, okay. I actually completely missed that happening. I did not realize that. Huh.

Oh, yeah. No, I found the, I found the, I found the, I found the, uh, their announcement. Oh, that was like, just a couple of days ago. Uh, no, no, they've been shipping this for a while before Quatro. Oh, I guess the post I found this for a couple days ago. Okay, okay. But maybe they're, oh, no, they're re-uping. I reached out to them again and said, like, hey, we should do even more stuff

because now Umachi is actually not a pain in the ass for you to be installed for people. Because you can just do this flow where it sets it up for the other use, another use. Because you could both do the reset to factory detail, but you can do it up front. So like you plug in the ISO, the first screen you get, you can hit Control C, and then you go into this special mode where it just installs it, but it doesn't take your credentials, and then the computer is ready for a customer. Either way, the reason I wanted to sort of highlight these is, I think for Linux to win, Linux has to come pre-installed.

And this is already happening, right? Like you have Slim Book and you have Tuxedo and you have System 76. 76. There's a bunch of people who've been doing this for a long time. in small batch volume. And then you've also had Dell, who've been shipping Ubuntu for quite a while, not necessarily on all machines, but on some machines and so forth.

They have the developer edition, yeah. Exactly. We need this on like everything. Every attractive, even fucking the ugly ones too, let's get them all. Every laptop should be able to come with Linux. And of course, for me, I want them to come with Amachi since I can buy a new computer and just unwrap it.

And like it already has my system. and I want to run out. So I'm super motivated to get this solved. And to get that solved, we needed reset computer. We needed all that stuff. So that's why it's built in. And we have it. And now resellers, any Linux reseller, you download that ISO.

You don't fucking need my permission. It's got them, MIT. You do whatever the fuck you want. And then you put it on your laptop when customers buy it. You can just say, I sell pre-installed omachi. In fact, I'm just about to put this together. We're going to do omachi.org slash pre-install. or pre-installs or whatever it's going to be,

print-sall, maybe just that. Anyone who sells pre-install or computers with pre-install, Amage is going to go on that page. Because this is the other win, win, win, win. I have about a trillion. Let's not get hyperbolic. Let's be very precise. I have 847,000 followers on X and a bunch of followers

and a bunch of other platforms. I'm going to point all of them towards the companies and individuals who do stuff that advances this mission I'm on. And if that is being amongst the first to pre-install Umachi on their new machines, I'll feature them. If they're amongst the last, I'll also feature them then. But of course, more points the earlier you are. So we're going to fix everything, including being able to buy computers from vendors directly with Omachi on. This has been like a real big problem for a long time.

And obviously, we've always had, we've had these vendors. for a long time. It's just, I think the problem with the vendors that we have is a lot of people still buy computers at brick and mortar stores. Like obviously a lot of people who know what they're doing, they will go online and they'll find exactly what they want. But if you're just some like random, you're not a, you're not like a nerd, anything. You're just like a, some guy that wants a computer. Most people still like go to brick and mortar store and everything there is Windows, they have their Apple section, they have a Chromebook section usually. And that's it.

Yeah, we're going to fix that. I want Umachi in Best Buy. I want Umachi in Microsenter. I want Amachi everywhere. I'm not saying we're going to take over them. I'm going to sell Macs or Windows or whatever. There are, but like Chromebooks got in there. We can get things in there.

Everything is solvable. Enough money, enough determination, enough connections. All problems are shallow. One area where I'm personally quite interested in is gaming as well. And for a lot of people, there are these certain games which are, they are like their blockers, right? Like, for some people, you know, Adobe is their blocker to using Linux. For some people, it is a certain game.

And I have seen you kind of poking at Tim Sweeney. They're like, hey, Fortnite. Oh, I've been friends with Tim for a long time. Because we met during the Apple Wars. I mean, he's still fighting it, like a fucking sinked. But when we had our problems with Apple, there were other people who were motivated to get into the fight, and none more so that Tim Sweeney and Mark Raine at Epic Games.

They bet big, and I mean big, I mean hundreds of millions, on taking on this behemoth, Apple, over App Store policies, right? And we bonded, and I was part of a foundation, still am part of Foundation, the App Coalition. that works on this CAF correlation for app fairness. I think that's how we

spell it out. That they're in and a bunch of others in and they're working on it. So I've known Tim for a while. And I also know that Tim is a lifelong Windows user. So I know that convincing him about Linux is not a quick thing, right? But I'm a patient man.

I have been bugging Tim in private and in public two and a half years to bring Fortnite to Linux. And it seems like we're almost there. I mean, there's all these announcements. They're not fully, they're quasi official announcement. And I will not reveal any conversations I have in private. I will just say, just look at the reports and just put two and two together. Good things are happening. I have a dream that by Christmas I can play Fortnite on Amachi.

Let's see if that dream come true. And if you're listening or someone clips it for you, Tim, I will say it in public for the 17th time. We need Fortnite. It is my game of choice. It's what I play with the kids. I just love Fortnite. As much as any game,

I've loved since the days of Unreal Tournament and Quake 3 and all of that stuff. Love it, love it, love it. But that's Fortnite for me. There are other people who have Leak of Lerner, There are other people who have, I think, not call a duty. The lady Todd's don't work on Linux. Battlefield, it doesn't work on. Ever since they introduced the new entity.

Anything that requires a kernel level entity, they're not super keen on it, right? But I don't actually, that's not true. There is a misconception in the Linux community that like, they just don't care. Yeah, you haven't made them care. It's just not a big enough market. The second, Linux is a big enough market, they will invest.

Because that's how boardrooms work. When they see a TAM, a total addressable market, increase over here with some Linux slice on it, they're going to go. I mean, this is what Valve has already done on their glorious crusade to bring all the games to Linux, right? Like, okay, we're going to invest, I mean, at this point, tens of millions, at least 10 million?

A lot of millions. A lot of millions has gone into Proton and everything else that are required for the Steam Deck to get to where it is. and now we have the Steam Box Steam Machine, sorry I called Steam Box Was that the first version? Was that called the Steam Box?

No, those are also called the Steam Machines They were the Steam Machines This is the Steam Machine Very different name A lot of people call it the Gabe Box So I don't know Maybe you got those to confuse I like Steam Box

That seems like you should call that Steam Deck Steam Box I like it, Steam Machine I'll allow Gabe his sovereign right To name his project as he sees So Gabe Cube is the one people were going with because it sounds like that one too. Now, funnily enough, also Small World,

I've also just happened to connect with Gabe over other things. Gabe is the funder of the Ashton Martin Valkyry sports car team, which I race next to on track all the time when I, either I'm competing at LaMalle or in the I'mse series, there's Ashton's Martens. And I actually happen to know some of the professional drivers who drive this. And in fact, when I won the 24 hours of LaMont in 2014, It was in a NASDAM Martin.

And we have bonded over such things. Now, I'm not pretending here that I have any special inside track. I'm just a big fan of what Gabe has funded and committed to. And I'm big fan of Steam. I mean, Steam really to me is, I have three kids. And Steam is fixed PC gaming for me. Like this idea that we have one account, by the way, it's a family account. So, like, I don't actually have to buy the game seven times.

if we're not seven players at the same time. Like, we can share and it's easy, and I can set up new devices for the kids, and we can just get gaming. Really good. Steam is amazing. Steam, since day one, was built in as the first option. When you go to install gaming in a match,

it's installed gaming Steam. Steam deserves our high tribute here, right? I think there's at this point, is it 30,000 games, 18,000? I forget how many it is. It is more games than any human could ever wish to play even a fraction of. And...

On 130,000 games. Oh, my God. Yeah. But no, no, no. That's in Steam. How many work on Linux? I don't think it's... Oh, how many work on Linux?

I don't know that most of them I'm ultiplayer. Yeah, 30,000 are deck verified. That's a number I've been thinking about, right? But I'm sure many of other than work. Either way, Steam is absolutely consequences. Because this is the other thing. This is a multi-pronged strategy here. We're doing the pincer movement on the powers of Microsoft, right?

We're going to get the developers because they're going to come because it's just a vastly superior developer platform. Linux has all the tooling. It's all pre-installed in Amachi. This is why we bake in Me's, all the good stuff, right? Then we're going to get the artists because Amachi is just going to look better. It's going to be easier to rice. It's going to be color-coordinated by someone who's not colorblind. It's going to be delicious and appealing, right?

And then just when they think they have enough on their hands, the gamers are going to come in with the fucking knockout punch. This is what Linus over at the Tech Tips is doing a great job at, right? Just illustrating that, hey, I mean, we tried a couple of times over the years to do the Linux channel challenge and it wasn't good enough, whatever, two years ago. We're trying again and I think we're going to stay. Now, whether he stays, he doesn't stay. Just the fact that we've moved that much forward and a voice that consequential for Windows gamers is saying like, hey, Linux is worth checking out.

You can actually game on Linux, even if there's a handful of things that can't work. That's unstoppable. Developers, artists, gamers, good luck, anyone on the other side of that line. And then we're also going to add the fucking suits. We're going to add the business people. I'm also talking to folks. There's a fleet management system literally just called fleet that has been expanding into Linux fleet management, support Amachi.

They were also early, I think October 25th last year, announced in their version 475, support for Amashi fleet management. Now, I don't actually do a lot of fleet management, so I haven't used it myself. Our company is relatively small, just 60 people. and I actually believe that Amachi's default security stands out of the box is good enough. We insist on encryption out of the box and all these other things, right? But we can get the business suit too. And the reason we can get the business suits is because it's fucking cheap,

because the price is zero. They love zero. They love cutting cost. I can convince any CFO to replace their expensive Microsoft licensees with Amachi if we have a complete story where they do not get pushback from. or from others about the new operating system, and then they get to just sever the head of an expensive license agreement.

Now, I mean, that's the four horsemen of the apocalypse for Microsoft on Windows. Now, I'm gonna go even fucking further. I think we can add Microsoft to the fight against Windows. I know it sounds crazy, but we can get Microsoft to bring Office to Linux. I'm convinced that this is possible. is possible. I do not think that Microsoft as an organization today is ideologically wedded to Windows as a platform. In fact, that's not even a premonition or prediction. They're bringing their

services everywhere. You can run office actually really nicely on Linux today because Microsoft 365 is a browser thing. And it's not full fidelity like Excel is, but it's 95% there. And then the last 5% for the Uber nerds, they still need native, which by the way, we also solved in Amachi. So Umachi shifts with a straight installer for Windows VM where the whole flow is figured out. We didn't do the thing. It's a DocCure project or whatever. They did all the hard work.

We integrated it all such that the ports open at the right thing and the timings are correct. And it's not as fast as installing Amashi, right? You can install the whole operating system and then you've got a chukka, chukkah for, I don't know, 20 minutes to install this Windows VM. And then for the next version, I build it even further. If you have a Windows 11 Pro license that comes with your computer,

this fucking thinkpad here is fucking hilarious, right? So it's a Lenovo think pad. It has this thing, whatever this is. Intel Live! Business something sticker. Yeah. And I'm like, I fucking hate stickers. Deadly, it's obvious shit.

But those words enterprise, do you know what they unlock? Windows 11 Pro. And with Windows 11 Pro, the license is not gimped, like Windows 11 Home. They, in their grace, allows the Windows license key that's baked into the firmware to be used for exactly one VM on that same computer. You can't do that with home, but there's one VM. So I built into Omachi. We're going to ship in the next version. Umachi Windows key.

It goes looking inside the firmware. It extracts the Windows key. you paste that key straight into your Windows VM that you just set up. Now you have a fully licensed version of Windows that is legally licensed. You're not fucking getting some key off the dark internet here. It's fully licensed and you can run Excel, you can run Word, and it runs amazing because Docker on Linux is amazing. This is one of the major selling points for developers

is that trying to run Docker on Mac is totally Gimp because you're running through this translation layer and the files system access is terrible. And therefore, your brand spanking new M5 runs like mud compared to a good Linux machine running on a potato, not quite, but kind of directionally. So now you have it all, right? But we can go further. When Steve Jobs in 1998, 99, I think it was,

he had just come back. He goes on stage, and one of his first points of presentation is Microsoft is bringing Office to the Mac. And you can hear the gasps. That recording is still on YouTube. And you should see it. It's amazing. Because Steve was amazing.

The what? 97. 97? Yep. Awesome. Right? People thought fucking hell had frozen over and pigs were flying. The immortal M&ME of the Mac in the minds of Mac users.

And Steve just went like, no. Microsoft makes a really important application suite called off. If we get it on Mac, more people can use Mac, that's good for Mac. That's my analysis. Not even my analysis. I'm stealing Steve's analysis. If we can get pure office onto the Mac or onto the Mac, onto the Mac and by extension in Linux, we win. This is good for us.

If we can get the bean counters, if I can get Ron, who runs finance at 37 to apply his crack, Excel skills to a native version. version of Excel on Amagi, he will switch without me having to twist his arm. And that's good. That's good for us. And it's good for us even if you don't like Windows. Even if you don't like Microsoft. You don't have to install Office to benefit from Office being available on Linux. And therefore, removing yet another blocker from Windows adoption.

So we had four horsemen. We had developers, artists, gamers, and suits. Yes. We're going to fucking add the fifth one, and it's going to be Microsoft itself. If this audacious dream of mine of bringing Office to Linux can come through,

I don't just want to Office, let me make the Linux nerds here really gasp. I want Teams. You know what? I'm not personally a big fan of Teams. I don't think anyone's personally a big fan of Teams. Maybe that's true, even inside Microsoft. But Teams is important.

It's important. Teams is what a lot of organizations use. If teams plus office plus everything else is available on Amachi, maybe they switch. And then they use Linux. And then they invest in Linux. And then more people can use Linux. And then we get more Linux.

But let me go further. You asked me about a roadmap. I'm giving you a roadmap. Let's add a sixth horseman to our apocalypse here. Yeah, I think the metaphor is losing it. Actually, yeah, maybe we've killed the metaphor now. It's not an apocalypse. is actually the path to Utopia.

Sure, yeah. Six horsemen of Utopia. We're going to add the six horsemen to Utopia here. I want to get Apple on board. I want to get Apple on board with Apple hardware. I want them to unlock Apple Silicon such that we can install Umachi on it without having to fucking crack it

and clean room it and driver it. Now, we're also... The thing with the Macs is it's very clear from the... Like, from the documentation that exists that the Alcii development, have worked with the very minimal doctorations there's there. The engineers don't have an issue with. This is entirely like a corporate home.

And this is why it's the year of Linux on the fucking desktop? Because Tim Cook has been in charge of Apple for a long time. Me and Tim, I'm on first name basis with him. He doesn't know who the fuck I am. Maybe he does. I don't know. He certainly doesn't care. I'm just going to call him Tim anyway.

Because I'd like warm relations, Tim. Tim is retiring. Tomorrow? Oh, or is Monday? Oh, Tuesday. Sorry. He's not retiring. Well, actually, well, I suppose he is.

He's stepping down as CEO, and we're getting a new CEO on September 1st, Ternus. Termis? I think, John Ternus. I will learn your name, Ternus, before we meet, so I don't offend you. And, by the way, it's Heinemeyer. Just in Kurt, should want to return to favor here. I want to get Omachi onto the Mac. And I think we can.

Macs used to not just make it possible, but roll out the red carpet for Windows with something called Bootcamp. You used to be able to install Linux on PowerPC Macs back in the day. This whole idea that the Mac has to be this jail cell is new. And it can be reversed. when there's a passing of the baton at the top, very often strange things happen. Good things happen.

That's what happened at Microsoft when Sacha took over from Balmer. Balmer had a very Windows-centric strategy. Sacha came in and had a different strategy that was focused on distribution in cloud and so forth, right? I think we can win with Apple. And do you know what? I'm applying the same ethics, tactics,

whatever you want to say, as I do to Anon's, Anon's, Anon's, anon's, that sounds, that sounds baking, make sure, let's get away from that. Anonymous, anonymous, that's funny, anonymous users on X with 120 users who call me a fascist or whatever,

and I just show up in the DMs and want to chat, right? I don't care about the beef, Apple. If you will allow us developers and other people who want to run Amachi to do it on your great hardware, I will embrace it strongly. I have a lot of actually machines laying around. I'd actually love to get Amachi running on them because then I can have a little more testing stuff.

So even just personally, selfishly, I would love to get it on, but also just for everyone else. Apple makes good machines. They made a lot of machines over many years. It'd be great if we could all carry them forward with Amici. And just to show a small token of my appreciation and authenticity in the SASC. Omachi is the... Now I'm really going to go on a limb here

and maybe there's some sub-Linux Disture that's going to go like, no, that's not true. But I'm going to say it anyway. Umachi is the premier, not just distribution, but operating system for vintage MacBooks that are of the Intel era and especially the earlier ones.

If you have one of my favorite laptops of all time, I'm really buttering up, turn this here, like I love your hardware, bro, is the MacBook Air 11-inch, one of my favorite computers of all time. People are running match on that thing. Do you know, you cannot run OS 10 on it? It's way out of security.

Like you're fucking walking security trap. If you try to run. They've been decommissioned since, I don't know, many, many years. We're bringing back the MacBook heritage, the vintage. And we're not just making it boot. We're making it usable. We're saving Eve waste from the dumpster. and bringing these machines that are very well-built machines in many cases,

they have good keyboards, not really the butterfly years, but all the other years have good keyboards, and they have good screens, and they have nice build quality, and they make for great Amachi machines. In fact, a huge number of Amachi convertees, they start like that, right? They have a MacBook. They're not going to get rid of the MacBook. What the fuck is Amici?

Then they also have an old vintage Mac, and they go like, well, it's just collecting Dutch. Dutch? Dutch. It's collecting dust. Maybe it's also a computer. collecting some Dutch. I don't know. Whatever goes on in your bedroom, that's your business. They take it out of the closet and then they install umachi on it. And the number of anecdotes I've received from people who've installed umachi on an old potato, as we endearingly call

these things. And then ended up with a computer they like better than their brand new MacBook. My inbox is full of it. And Twitter has a bunch of it too. This is the way we honor the legacy of these great computers. They can no longer run operating system that Mac or Apple produces because it's not economically viable. There's no recurring revenue there, whatever. It's not a big market. We play on different rules. We play on

just doing it for the sheer love of the game, bro. So we're going to bring homage to all these vintage machines, and therefore, I mean, this is my piece offering here. I have done the work, sir, to honor your vintage and your ancestors and you probably work on these machines. Let me show you.

And then, could we please have the drawings for the M5, M6, sorry, we just got M6, right? Could you help just a little bit? Maybe? I mean, I'm not telling you that you can't chip with Mac on it or whatever. Most people are still probably going to use that, but it'd be really nice for us, nerds if we could also run our favorite operating system. Yeah, my first Mac that I had was a mount, snow left.

Snow left is what it was. Bootcamp was sick back then. That was awesome. Like being out to just run an additional thing alongside Mac OS. That was awesome. I think people have very short memory. Like a very, very short memory. They look at the way things have been for like the past,

however many years it's been. And just entirely forget that there was an entirely different way that things were done. And I, yeah, I, like, whether it be a Marchy or, anything else, I would like there to be the option to use this hardware. I know people will talk about, like, you know, repairability or something. Yeah, definitely there are problems with Apple in regards to that. But by the way, they've gotten better than, they improve. They do take criticism in.

I think it's the MacMeno that just got a, like, a A rating or a B rating on I fix it or something. Okay. They've been improving a lot. Less things are used glue and stuff like that. Okay. But there are two parts of the repairability. There is both the hardware, but also the soft. software side. It's all willing good if you can fix the hardware, but if you would be running an

EOL operating system for like five years EOL, it's still probably shouldn't go on a network. That's correct. In fact, it should not. You're just contributing to the worldwide botnet if you do that, right? You've got to run patched machines. And that's why, I mean, it's both a piece offering. It's also an homage and respect. I love Apple's history and hardware and design and so forth. And it's also just a practical thing. We've got to stop e-wasting so much. The best form of recycling is actually just to take the computer you have and put a compelling operating system on it and it continues to use it.

And freedom of choice. I do actually think at its heart, even maybe it's covered under a little bit of service revenue sludge. Apple wants user choice at least in the abstract. They don't want to lock people in this way. they have a proud history of allowing Linux, even on their earlier machines, and Windows under Bootcamp, could you install Linux on BootCamp?

You could, couldn't you? Now, you must have it, because that's what we're doing now, right? But I don't know if it was fully supported. I don't think it was. Sure. Because Apple at the time, we were writing drivers for Windows. I've used those, actually. The boot camp drivers for the Apple XTR display,

so you could control the brightness. It was super janky. But apparently it was the way to do it, but it wasn't reliable. Yeah. They don't have to. I don't need Apple to write Linux software. Let's us do that. Just open the gates.

Just let me have the drawings. We will do the work ourselves. We're already doing the works, by the way, whether they wanted or not. Umashi is coming to all the M-Max. Like, that's happening. But it would happen nicer. It would have a better. It would happen faster if we just had a modicum of help from Apple.

And we don't have to be enemies in this way. So, I mean, look at that. Look at what's possible. Look at the roadmap. Look at where we can go and look at the moment. Now is the time. And it's so funny that we have this meme, the year of Linux on the desktop, right? And we chuckle, but we shouldn't chuckle.

All the greatest prophecies were prophecies for a long time until they came through. Most great prophecies, by the way, had to wait hundreds of years. In some cases, thousands of years to come true. We've been waiting like 30 years. Not that long. Give it another six months and we'll be there. You know, I think that's a good message to end on. I've pretty much everything I've,

I think we hit on pretty much everything I wanted to touch on. I know that you could probably, you know, as anyone who might have found the time to watch the Lex interview, you can definitely find time to talk about quite a bit more. Was there anything else like really important you think we should touch on before we sign off? Because anything that I wanted to really get to, we've already got to. I just want to reiterate.

Water under the bridge. Focus on the front line. Unite the nerds. Whatever slights, insults, either perceived or actual, I don't care. And also, I'll try hard not to call you a clown in the future. But we don't need to do it like this. We don't need to agree on everything. We can just agree on Linux should win.

and computers should be fun and beautiful, and we'll collaborate on the commons. And if we do that work together, we will change it. We will change the world. We will rewrite our industry. Now is the moment. You don't have to be Agent Pilt to be along.

If you are, great, I'm very. There's room for all of it. There is room for all of it. And now is the moment for us to bury the hatchet and just get on the same page and get going. And you can write men anytime. David at omachi.org. You can yell some profanities for the first email.

Then if I reply, then we've got to be civil, right? And we've got to, that's just easier. We get more done that way. Actually, do you know what? It actually be nice if you didn't even yell the first one. But if you did it in the past, I don't care. Forgiven. This is a blanket forgiveness.

Blanket immunity. Espiritio, Pizro Sanctus, all forgiven. All under the water. I just want Linux to win. And there's so many clever, smart nerds out there who can make it happen. And so let's just do it. Let's just make it happen. Right now, next week.

Send me an email now. It's Saturday. We'll get on it. Fair enough. If people want to check out, Omachi, check out anything else you're involved in. You've done plenty of podcasts. You know how to do the social plugs. The plug is Omachi.org.

That's the main thing. download the thing, spread the thing, show up at an Amachi meetup. We just launched meetups like also a couple days ago. I completely thought about that, yes. There's like 32 or probably more. Maybe there's some in the queue right now happening already just planned in the next few weeks. Show up to one of them. If there isn't one in your city and it's too far to the next one, start one.

Become involved. Show up on the Discord. Help us on GitHub and the trackers. We can fix everything. We can fix anything. We just have to decide to do so. And you should decide today, you want to be part of this. You want to be part of this movement.

Again, don't have to like me. Don't have to like to Amachi. You're just part of the, let's make Linux win movement. Fair enough. Nothing else you want to plug? Well, I mean, you go to DHS to DK. But if you do, maybe you'll get triggered by my smiley, happy face. If we don't have the warm as the connection already.

Or maybe you will be convinced. In fact, there's a great scientific study that says, if you force yourself to smile, you will actually literally become happier. You will release dopamine by smiling. So return my virtual smile, and maybe you'll release a few dopamins, and you can find links to everything else,

my email address and X and YouTube and whatever all is happy. DHS, the DK. Okay, cool. My main channel is Brodo Robinson. I do Linux videos there, 6th is Shays a week. Sometimes I stream as well. There's shorts as well there now. I felt like doing that.

I've got the gaming channel, Brody Own games. Right now I'm playing through Like a Dragon and Metal Gear Solid 4, both incredible games. And if you're watching the video version, this, you find the audio version on basically every podcast platform at Tech Over T. The video is on YouTube. We also have Spotify video as well if you like Spotify video. So, I'll give you the final word. How do you want to sign us off? Well, thank you. Brody. As I said again at the beginning, big fan of the show. I mean, I'm new to Linux. I've got a lot to learn. You know a lot. It's been wonderful to discover the depths and the competence and all the wonderful things in Linux land.

And I love learning about everything. I'm very focused on Amachi, obviously. But I want to know it all, right? I want to catch up. And YouTube, by the way, was the tricker. Like just the Primogen and his stuff on NeoVim got me pilled. Typecraft got me into actually Hyperland stuff. I just realized that YouTube is an incredible medium

for transforming enthusiasm and triggering interest, planning little seats that then blossom very quickly thereafter. So I think YouTube has actually been incredible for Linux. And we should also be thankful, even if we don't like the Google blog, that YouTube is a thing, and it's allowing us to propagantize the youth with the message in Linux. I think at the end of the day, even if people have an issue with Amachi, I am glad that there is

funny going around I at least from what I can tell you seem like you're interested in more than just Amachi and overall I am I am

watching with baited breath to see where this ultimately ends up going You don't have to hold your breath long we're going to be dropping announcement likes their nose tomorrow I got them fucking lines out the door so much exciting cool new stuff is coming down the pipeline and more will be dropping very soon sweet