Tech Over Tea - Developer Of Ratty Terminal & Ratatui | Orhun Parmaksız

Episode Date: July 17, 2026

Today we have the developer of the Ratty terminal and the Ratatui library on the show to chat about the project, we recorded this shortly after the project came out but it got pushed back a little bit longer than I had expected.==========Support The Channel==========► Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/brodierobertson► Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/BrodieRobertsonVideo► Amazon USA: https://amzn.to/3d5gykF► Other Methods: https://cointr.ee/brodierobertson==========Guest Links==========Ratty Terminal: https://github.com/orhun/rattyRatatui: https://github.com/ratatui/ratatui==========Support The Show==========► Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/brodierobertson► Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/BrodieRobertsonVideo► Amazon USA: https://amzn.to/3d5gykF► Other Methods: https://cointr.ee/brodierobertson=========Video Platforms==========🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBq5p-xOla8xhnrbhu8AIAg=========Audio Release=========🎵 RSS: https://anchor.fm/s/149fd51c/podcast/rss🎵 Apple Podcast:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tech-over-tea/id1501727953🎵 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3IfFpfzlLo7OPsEnl4gbdM🎵 Google Podcast: https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy8xNDlmZDUxYy9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw==🎵 Anchor: https://anchor.fm/tech-over-tea==========Social Media==========🎤 Discord:https://discord.gg/PkMRVn9🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/TechOverTeaShow📷 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/techovertea/🌐 Mastodon:https://mastodon.social/web/accounts/1093345==========Credits==========🎨 Channel Art:All my art has was created by Supercozmanhttps://twitter.com/Supercozmanhttps://www.instagram.com/supercozman_draws/DISCLOSURE: Wherever possible I use referral links, which means if you click one of the links in this video or description and make a purchase we may receive a small commission or other compensation.

Good morning, good day, and good evening. I'm as always your host, Brodie Robertson. Today, I don't have any tea, but I do have some grapes here. And also, we have the developer of the Rati Terminal. So how about you introduce yourself? And yeah, we'll just go from there. Hey, guys. My name is Orham.

First of all, thanks Brody for the invite. I've been following Brody's channel for a while now. Actually, he did, I think, two or three videos already about my other tools. And this time, I'm just super happy to be on the podcast and just give you the background story of Rati and just talk about some stuff. So my name is Orhoun, Orhun Parmax's. I am from Turkey. And I am an open source developer, basically. I've been working on Rust terminals and a library called Rattelmachers.

Tui. And I just like to experiment with terminals and just create content. You know, I live stream. I share stuff on the internet, you know, write blog posts and all the influencer stuff basically. So yeah, that's me, I guess. What did I make a video on that you'd done? I thought this, I wasn't aware of this. Yeah. So you did a video on K-Mond, which is a Linux kernel. monitor tool. Yeah, yeah, you did. Sorry, I sometimes forget the videos that I'm. I, okay, that was like six years ago.

Yeah. You did that and you also did Cisteroid. You remember that tool? The system, system, CETL, but on steroids. That one was a... Oh, yes, yes, yes. Oh my God, I did.

Okay, I did. Sorry, I didn't realize I... Wait, I make six videos a week. I sometimes... Yeah. Sometimes, and it's not even just like software stuff. Sometimes I will think like, oh, have I done a video on, I don't know, the history of Linux audio system?

They're like, wait. Yes, five years ago. Right. Okay. No, I mean, that's totally fair. That's totally fair. I was basically like, I was the guy who was making all these, like, fun tweet stuff. And nowadays, that thing became my, like, basically my persona on the internet, just the guy who makes terminal stuff.

So it's totally normal. I've been doing this for some time. Okay, okay. Okay, yeah, I'm looking at it right now. Yeah, I do remember this one. Yeah. It's six years ago, man. I mean, time flies.

Yeah. Well, how did you go from doing stuff like that to where we are now? Like, where did the idea for Radi come from? And I guess, sort of, to get into that, you sort of got to talk about Rattahooie as well. Yeah. So this is actually quite fun because it's like going full-sergey. You know, you did the video on K-MON, and KAMON was my first ever Rust project, and it was a terminal UI project. And when I saw that, and when I saw people excited about this tool, I was immediately hooked because I was like, okay, I made this thing and I'm using it and people love it.

And I'm like, okay, I want to do this thing. I want to do more, you know. And basically, I was using a library called Tweed. R S for making these Tui apps. And at some point, I had like, came on Cisteroid and there was GPG Tui, and I had these three apps. And someone from TuiRS discussions pinged me, and I got this message. They said, there's Orhun who's like doing these like apps. and maybe he's interested in, you know, taking like a maintainer role in this new fork of TweetRS.

And I was like, okay, I was super excited because I love this library already. I was using it. And there was this like issue where the author, the original author was saying, hey, I don't have time. I want to, you know, keep working on this project, but I cannot work on this. So if anyone is interested, let's do something about it. So I basically, I was in the original team who forked the project and now it's basically known as Rosatoui. And I've been working on this for more than three years, I think.

So basically this became my passion all because, you know, you did a video and came on. Someone else shared it on Reddit and it just blew up and I was super excited. So, yeah. Okay. That's awesome. That's a whole story. No, that's really cool I guess I'm glad that people appreciated the work

And I don't want to go back and look at the video Because I know my videos back then were not great I you know anytime you look back at your old stuff You're like, what was I doing back then? It happens with everything whether it be like content creation or programming You look back in an old project like that's garbage Why did anyone like this? You immediately see all the problems you had back then.

But I'm glad that it's sort of led to where we are now and I guess doing everything you're doing at this point. Yeah. So nowadays, RedoTui is the go-toe library if you want to build thermal UI applications in Rust. And we now actually ported Rotter 2i to many other systems so you can build embedded projects as well. You can literally run tweez on little screens.

And I've seen like just the other day, someone just run, run a tweet on their, like, on their espresso machine. Because they were like, okay, I want to like have a tweet like little screen. And I want to see how much, I don't know how much things like happening and working in this machine. So, you know, people have these like crazy use cases now. And I'm super glad that we took the terminal UI, like terminal UI approach to other platforms. Somebody actually run Rotetri on their car dashboard. So one day I go on Twitter, someone just posting a video from their car and they're just like driving and there's this like terminal UI on their car's dashboard, all the Rotter 2i

widgets. And I'm like, what is going on here? So I'm all about like crazy experiments. and like I love, you know, taking terminal to other places. So going back to Rati and where it came from, we had, like, we were experimenting with, like, crazy ideas already. We actually ran a challenge called Ratt in the Wild, and we shipped aprons to people who built crazy projects with Rattachiti.

And the other day, like, I don't know. Do you have an example of, like, one of those crazy projects? Just one that comes to mind. Yeah, relative to Minecraft, basically. This one was like one of the winners. They put like, you know, relatively in Minecraft. The, yeah, the other one was like the SuzuI, Sousoui, R.S, which is the Suzuki car, like car dashboard thing.

So, yeah, I don't remember the other one. But yeah, we basically have these use cases now, basically. Like, I don't know, you can run Tui apps on your bootloader. There's no, like, OS at that point. Like, yeah. So, yeah, thanks to Rust and, you know, portability features of Rust and ROTWIs, like, super simple, like, architecture. You can port stuff to it.

And I was thinking, like, I was thinking, like, what can I do next? And I saw this. So we are running, okay, there's like so many things to talk about now. But just to give you like a short summary, I'm running a hacker space in my city. And every time we are there, I want to build something new. And I was experimenting with like 3D rendering and bevy at some point because I was kind of, I saw this ratatouille project called soft ratatouille, which is. you can render the terminal and you can like render it on any buffer basically.

So I saw that and one of our like one of my friends Gold Silver Copper, he made like a 3D animation using this. So he basically used software at a 2 and rendered a 2D surface and put it on a 3D object using Bevi. So in the hackers space, I was like, okay, how does this thing work? Because like you have this like rudder tree layer, you have this bevy layer and maybe you can like, I don't know, like maybe you can do the other way around. You can have like a 2D thing and on a 3D. So yeah, I was I was just experimenting, you know, wipe coding, you know, prompting. And at some point I managed to have a terminal like a 2D terminal like a shell.

and after that I basically kept experimenting. And in like two weeks, I was, you know, I had ratty because, you know, I was so lost. Like in two weeks, I was just, I had to do other things, but I was like, no, I want to work on this because it's so fun. I don't know what I'm doing, but I want to do it either way. So, you know, I kept adding features. This is not my first terminal emil laser project. So I knew what to do. like, you know, the roadmap was obvious, like add key bindings, add this support, that support,

and then make it configurable and so on. So basically, I don't know, this was like a fun ratatouille experiment because it uses ratatouy under the hood and bevy as well. So basically all of these things came together and led to Rati. And the reason is why not? Yeah. that's a good enough reason for it. Like, I saw a lot of the responses to it on, like, hack and use and places like that.

Besides the people who were really obsessed with using it in VR, which I don't really understand why you'd use it in VR, because you can already have 2D planes in a 3D space. I think people misunderstood what it was. I don't know. People were really obsessed with this in VR. Besides that, it was just a lot of comments of why, why are you doing this?

What is the point? There is no point to this. Yeah, I mean, I watched a documentary of Temple OS a while ago. And I was like, you know, this guy was onto something. And the 3D Sprites thing, like Terry Davis, we're talking about Terry Davis, if any listeners is just not aware of what I'm saying. Terry Davis, he had this like whole operating system where you have text. sprites, documents, all in the same place. And he made it in a way that everything works

works well with each other. You can literally have like 3D sprites in the source code. You can move them around. You can copy them, paste them. It was just like mind-blowing to me. I was every time I watched like Terry Davis streams or like some some memes like there everywhere nowadays. I'm like, dude, this was this was like I don't know what I'm looking at, but that's that's so fun what the hell is going on there so um basically you know the inspiration came from there as well i was always like i i love terr davis like rest in peace like he was he was a big inspiration to me like i'm not i'm just seeing his like talent and he's he's pure talent. He's a brilliant person. He was. So ignoring all the negative stuff about him,

he was just genius. So I was like super inspired by what he has achieved, what he has done without AI. Let me add without like with zero AI. He just like wrote all that code. So basically, you know, Sprites on the command line. There we have it in Ratti. I don't know. I don't So what are the, you know, you have these like, these sort of like test applications, but what are some ideas that people have been throwing around for what you could do with the 3D in a terminal? What are some of the ideas that might maybe you had that you just didn't bother to like actually go and implement? So I think the biggest one. So I went, so first of all, I went to FOS STEM this year. This is a huge conference where you have a lot of people from all kinds of. backgrounds and like a lot of rooms and so on and I was a part of the robotics room and it was one

a sec it was like it was super surprising for me because people were using ratatooe there and I was like okay they they're using retitweet in like robotics applications and like I get like random shoutouts in during the talks and I'm in right there in the audience and at some point I just said hey guys I'm here I maintain this library and they're like, oh, there you are. And they gave me an applause and so on. They're super nice people. So one thing that they said to me, we love RedoTree, but I wish we had like 3D like rendering, like better visuals and so on because they want to have simulations.

They want to like, you know, how the robot behaves and they want to like draw stuff. You know, they want more interactivity from the terminal. So one of the things that I was, I had back in, you know, back in my mind was we could have like a CAD drawing program like entirely in the terminal because now we can render 3D stuff. And actually this thing now exists and I can show you if you want. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Let me show you. Starts sharing screen.

One second. And okay, so let me exit this. So this is ratty, first of all, for those who don't know what this. We have a rat cursor. You can't use this like any other terminal, basically, but you can do stuff like this because why not? So, okay, let me run it. This thing is called rat scad.

This is basically using open SCAD under the hood. Oh man, I don't want to build all this. I guess we're going to build it. Basically, it's like an IDE in the terminal where you have your code representation of what you have designed and also a 3D preview. So on one side you have your design. file. It has its own syntax and so on. And on the other side, you can see the, um, like the preview.

And this renders entirely in the turn. Oh, okay. Of course, of course. Um, okay, maybe. Live demos. Rest and peace. Uh, okay, let me show you, show you the video actually. Radscad. Um, I just contributed to this by the way. you're still working on this. So basically, um, basically this. So you can, you can have this 3D object entirely in the terminal. Oh, okay. That's sick. And you can change it and in real time it it renders again and then yeah, you have the even the coordinate stuff here basically. Um, basically, um, yeah, stuff like this. I, I knew that this was possible, but I haven't built it. And, um, Actually, this is one of our members from the hackerspace.

They built this in an hour and we shared it on Reddit. We got like flamed because it was white-coded, but whatever. It works. Yeah. Basically this. And yeah, that's that's one application, possible application of Rati, basically. That's really cool. That is really cool.

What are we doing now? What is this? So I'm going to show you this draw demo because I think it was quite a fun, fun thing. This is a brand new computer. That's why I don't have the dependencies. We're just waiting for it. Oh, fair enough. Yeah.

Yeah, we were planning to record this couple of days ago, and your think pad decided it wanted to think no longer. Sorry, that was a terrible joke. It just gave up on me. It just gave up on me. Yeah, so, yeah, I have added this mouse support just recently so you can actually rotate the object with your mouse. But basically, you know, while I was experimenting with the Mobius strip, I tried other shapes as well. This is like, I don't know.

just the background story. I try like a clean bottle. Clean bottle. Like this. Oh, God. Yeah, okay. I wasn't very successful at it, but yeah, let me know if you know any good, like, I don't know, shapes to do from this, like, that we can render in the terminal. Rendered Terminal as, you know.

There's also, what was it? This one. Gumbeck? Gumbeck? What is gumbock? I don't know. This is actually quite fun. So this shape, this is like entirely unrelated to the podcast, but like this shape has like like two or one balance points.

And however you place it on the ground, it always comes back to that center point or something. I don't know. Not a physicist. But I try to render the turmoil as a gunbook. How did that go for you? Not well. But yeah, this is Rati. I try like, I'm daily driving this, by the way.

And like fixing dogs. Oh, that's one thing I missed in my video. How did you do the, like, the warping of space? Do you mean the key binding or just? Yeah, yeah, I must have missed the binding for that. Like how you warp the terminal. It's Control, Alt and up and down. Ah, okay, okay.

Yeah. And in this shape, it's still usable. So basically, like, you can use the terminal. Sometimes during my live streams, I just go ahead and just write code like this. The terminal is a Bona That's so stupid I love seeing

weird projects like this This is like This is the kind of stuff I love soft before I know obviously You know There are these Really like really

Well made Useful projects out there But I do like just people Experimenting with what you can do And just Even if it's Even if there's like No

immediate use case for it. Just like see if you can do it. Yeah, I mean, this actually paved the way for many other things. Like we now have a Parlay Rota Tui backend. So this project is what I'm using under the hood for rendering the fonts and like font handling and just like GPU stuff. So this library is using Radotwee under the hood. I mentioned soft Radatwee briefly.

Soft Rotatwee is for rendering on an arbitrary buffer, and this project is tailored for GPU rendering, using Parlay and Parlay Library, basically. And Velo is another library that we're using to render on GPU. So basically, this project, RATI is now, depending on this. And you can use the underlying libraries, like this new library to, I don't know, do other things, basically. And, yeah, in a way that helps the ecosystem to experiment more and build more things that is helpful to other projects. So, yeah, this is what we're using.

Yeah, I think for a long time, the terminal space was pretty boring. all things considered. It wasn't really that much going on like really at all. It was kind of just like, hey, this is a slightly different terminal. Oh, we have GPU acceleration in this terminal. So it's really cool to see like actual like new and interesting stuff being done here.

I mean, the comments that I got for this project was like 80% why, but I love this. And 20%, like, let's say 10%, this is so pointless. And the remaining 10% was, this is just wipe-coded, like, bullshit, you know. And I was super, like, I'm super happy with the feedback that I got. And people actually gave me a lot of ideas for this. And like, I'm, I'm just glad that, you know, once in a while, people get to see something like this. and you know they enjoy i mean i'm just like super glad that people you know laughed at this thing

because it's super funny and i just love it you know and um you know this like this thing this this thing is actually a tribute to templars and what terry davis has done in the past so um you know i i just like that aspect as well because what he has done is not known by many people um nowadays I guess he's becoming a meme. But yeah, he deserves more eyes on what he has done. I believe he was just like a crazy guy, but, you know, he built like all of these stuff by himself. So, yeah. So do you have some ideas for what you want to do with Rati at this point?

Or is it kind of just like, it's out there and you're kind of done with it for now? So I want to daily drive it more, I think. I will do live streams using Rati and I will like do presentations probably in Rati as well because you can like really see like the terminal from like the power of the terminal from a different aspect. I've been giving talks from the terminal and you know I was like I had the images rendered and I was rendering gifts but now you'll be able to like actually roll rotate the terminal and just see the back side of it, which is like a mind-blowing thing to me.

When I first like implemented, I was like, whoa, what, what? Like, I never imagined something like this. I don't know. I think this is the same for people watching. So I will use it more and, you know, I will like improve it over time. One thing that is a bit concerning is that I have so much attention on this project, but I don't have many like, feedbacks when it comes to runtime. So I am not sure if people are just saw the project and they started and they're like super excited about it or you know, they actually tried it like installed it.

So I didn't get, I didn't receive many screenshots or like videos. So that was a bit like concerning. So I want to maybe just, you know, get more feedback. Just get more like gather more, I don't know, like user setups because I use the rat as a cursor but you can change it to anything you can have a 3D model of an octopus and that would just work so I want to see fun stuff like that so maybe I'll ask people to send their setups like screenshots to me at some point and you know keep keep working on this and let's see where it goes maybe I'll um I'll see if I can convince other terminals to implement something like this maybe if it gets really really like, I don't know, useful at some point, you know? So yeah. Because that's kind of how like the

the kiddie image protocol started, right? Like that that started as this thing that just one terminal was doing. There are already ways to do images in a terminal. You had things like six cylinder, a couple of other things. But at this point, I would say kiddie image

rendering is kind of the standard for doing 2D images in a terminal at this point. Yeah, yeah, that's correct. I mean, Kitty is just paving the way for many new, like, improvements in the terminal space. They have been adding new protocols, new things, and they, they've been, like, kind of, they, they were the most, like, modern one for a while, I think. So we need more protocols to make things more modern these days.

And I've looked into like the 6-cell while I was implementing the image support in Rati. There's like experimental kitty image protocol support because kitty is just, you know, Kitty and Rati is just fun. So, you know, I implement the kitty. But yeah, things really feel ancient. If you get into writing a terminal emulator, if you really get into handling ANSI escape codes, it really feels ancient.

You get like a bite. You handle that bite and then you get like another thing. Like it's just, you know, it feels really, really from, I don't know, from back in the day. So we could maybe like, I don't know, modernize the protocols a little bit, you know, have other things, like make other things possible in the terminal. So I have one friend. Rafael Amorim, he is the creator of the Rio Terminal. And this is a terminal emulator.

Yeah, it's a terminal emulator written in Rust. And he made this like Glyph protocol. And we're going to actually have an interview with him soon. Like I will ask him some questions about like the Glyph protocol and why he created it. So he told me like he's been maintaining this terminal for multiple years now. We basically met because of the thermal emulator. And he told me, like, while he was writing this, he had like a lot of ideas for new terminal protocols. So there are so many things to do in the terminal space.

And at some point, we need to, you know, follow the same standards and have like better rendering, I don't know, better message passing or better performance overall. Because nowadays, you know, when a terminal emulator comes out, like there's this new one let's say it's it's like 90% the same the different part is how they handle the you know underlying like rendering performance or or whatnot but like the 90% is the same because the protocols hasn't changed that much so we need to revolutionize like do more things i don't know just push the terminal a bit more basically that's that's what i'm saying Over the past seven or so years that have been doing videos, I think I've seen maybe four,

maybe like three or four big advancements in the terminal space. True colour is now basically a standard. There's no reason to even consider a terminal that doesn't do true colour. Images in the terminal, ligatures, and actually taking advantage of the fact that you have a GPU in your system. That's pretty much the majority of the advancements even had in the terminal space. Most things, like, yeah, you know, sometimes you have terminals that have, like, splits and stuff. And, like, you know, you can do that with termics anyway.

But you can do a lot more with the terminal. I think you make a good point there where it's like, this space is very much... What when we say, terminal, right? It's a terminal emulator. We are emulating these older terminals that existed. and I don't know how much of that needs to be done and what can actually be changed here to advance the space. I think there is this excitement around doing things in the terminal,

and I don't think we necessarily need to just be stuck 30 years in the past. I think, you know, showing that you can do 3D in a terminal, doing 2D images in a terminal. Even stuff like this is already opening up aspects that just were not possible for. Other things like, one of the one of the things I did see someone suggest is actually having smooth scrolling in a terminal, whereas traditionally with a terminal you scroll line by line because that's just the way that you would render things. But if your terminal is being handled in 3D, there's no reason why you couldn't do smooth scrolling with that. Like that seems possible Yeah

And like while I was working on On the 3D mode I had so many crazy ideas And I didn't like On purpose I didn't implement them Because I know that this would lead to feature creep And I would just get lost I just wanted to release this terminal as fast as possible

Because I'm moving countries really soon So Basically What I had in mind was so let's say you have multiple sessions of i don't know team x right why not just see them like on a i don't know 3d cube and then you just kind of like see them on us on the same place or you just move them around or i don't know basically like a window manager but like in the terminal itself or or Or maybe you could have, so you have this like different buffers in the terminal.

Every time you type there's like a new like on the 3D space, you just have your current current like terminal and then there's this other buffer like they're just positioned in a way that you can see the history of your terminal and you can like go back in in history and stuff like that. I don't know. There's like, there's like so many things. At some point, I was experimenting. It was like 3 a.m.

And I was like, okay, I want to see the role NC escape codes. And I want to like have a rat as a figure. And I want this rat to throw those like NC escape codes to the terminal. And then they would appear. So I type and there's this like rat is just like, I don't know. There's just, you know, like, I don't know, text is being transmitted. on air to the terminal and just like an explosion. It was just so stupid,

but it's probably somewhere in my Git stash somewhere. So so many things that you can do with this. Another one is, so you could see the processes in the terminal, but they're being spread out and they're like connections like between them. And you can just move them around. You can like, I don't know, interact with them. that's where VR is coming into play a little bit, I guess. The other day, I was talking to Francisco,

and he's like doing also Rust content, and we had this live stream where he said, I want to do like VR in Rust, and I want to like use Ratty in there. And I was like, if you do that, make it possible that I can punch the terminal. So you just literally like punch the terminal, and you can see that on the terminal. So that would be so crazy.

So useless, but possible. I don't know. So many things. So many things. I think that's like a core driving, driving idea. So useless, but it's cool. Yeah. But like there is also a different aspect where people say, you know, we don't need like 3D in the terminal.

I can just use my, I don't know, ST, what's it called ST? Simple term? Yeah, yeah, yeah, right? The suckless one? I'm the stocklist. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I can just use that and it just works and I run neovim there.

It's just super fast. Why do I need to like, I don't know, why do I need a Brad's cursor? And I also understand that as well because I've been I've been writing thermal UI apps for, for like six, six, seven years now. And I like the simplicity of the thermal. well. But at the same time, I feel like we should not be stuck there. We should experiment more. We should do more because, you know, Termal is now all of a sudden, very popular, probably because of the AI agents and whatnot and like all the other like stuff. But I've been like I've been hyped about Termal for a long time and we should do more is what I'm saying. so yeah

yeah there's always been this like this group of people who are like I want to do as much as possible as much possible in the terminal for a while I was kind of like that and sort of I've sort of moved you know I've started doing different things in my time but like there is definitely some

there is definitely areas here where if somebody wants to make a really cool project that nobody has done before I think being out of do 3D in the terminal completely opens up a whole new realm of, you know, just can I do everything I can possibly do in a terminal, right? Like, there's, if you can, if you have 3D, if you have 2D, basically you can, basically you can, you can probably do whatever you want if you put your mind to it and are willing to like think through the problem. Yeah. And this also like makes you think about what is a terminal. Because I started like questioning myself at some point.

Maybe it's because I'm working on this ratatry library long enough that my brain is fried with terminals. But basically like I ask myself what is the terminal? Like this is like let's let's think. Okay, let me ask you like what is what is the terminal? for you. What is it? I've never even considered this. I guess it is the

although I typically use it is like the text-based interface to my system. Like that would, I guess that's the most straightforward answer. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just like, you know, get an input. You have, you have an input

and you have an output, right? So basically, like, you use text to communicate with the computer and that's it. I guess that's, or maybe, I don't know, I call that a terminal. Some people call that a command line or a prompt or whatever. But that's basically what a terminal is. And I was, I was like considering, okay, we have the simple logic. We should be able to, like this is 2026. We should be able to adopt that into like anything.

So terminal is just text. It's 2D. Make it a picture, put it on a surface, render it as 3D. That's still going to be a terminal. So basically I was also like considering like, how can I like take this terminal approach and make it so that it's no longer feels like a terminal. So that was also like one of the ideas. And like my original title for the blog post for Rati was,

I built a terminal emulator that is not supposed to be a terminal emulator because it feels different. But you know, when you think about what a terminal is, it's just like input and output and you communicate with the computer using this. It's a terminal. So yeah, maybe I, dude, my brain's fried. No, I think I get what you're trying to say here Like the idea of a terminal is this Although people have this like

Senator in the head But you're trying to sort of Expan that idea Like what Does a terminal just need to be this text based interface Or can we do more with this? Can we like Yeah

Can we actually use this Like a primary input That can stand alongside your other Like the graphic applications on your system. Yeah. So a lot of people actually asked, can I run Wayland in Ratti?

And I was like, well, at that point, we are reinventing, what are we doing? Right. So. And some people actually, like, this was a funny comment. And they said I will at some point reinvent the graphical user interfaces and I will just, you know, be super excited about it. But basically, like, they asked like, can I have Windows in like actually like clickable stuff in Rati? I was like, no, this is a terminal. This is not a desktop environment.

So, yeah, there's like also like ideas like that out there. I was just thinking. could could you implement a graphical interface inside of Ratti but I guess if you can't do

click events then that would be a bit difficult you probably can so okay one idea one other idea was you know we're using

Bevi game engine and let's say you built a game using Bevi can we run that game inside Rati because it's also using Bevi. And I think that was possible. So if you have a Bevi app and yeah, you can basically like run it in the terminal.

That's it's 3D. It's 3D. Like it's it's using GPU. It uses like 300 megabytes of RAM. We should use that for something. It's yeah, it sometimes feels very wasteful just to render text and a spinning rat, you know. So we should use it. Yeah, I did get some comments from like the resource, you know, the resource hungry people is like, how this is crazy, how dare you make a piece of software that uses all of this RAM.

And yet, it does use a lot of RAM for what it does. But also, having a full game engine there is probably a little overkill for what you're doing anyway. Yeah, I mean, you could probably like have it like less heavy by just implementing it from scratch. But the issue is I don't know where this. I don't know the I don't know where this is going, right? I don't know if this is the final form of Rati or if you're going to like have something else. So I'm keeping Bevi because Bevi is really powerful. and until I see like a, I don't know, just like ratty in a place where people use it and it's very useful and it's stable and so on, I don't think I will I will re-implement and have it like less resource hungry and less, I don't know, bloated. But right now I am super aware that this is going to, this is taking a lot of RAM and GPU and whatnot.

But it's 40 spinning rats, man, come on. It's cool. Do you have any other ideas for like improvements you would like to see in the terminal space? Just even if the things you're not going to get around to yourself, maybe someone wants to work on some random project. Yeah, it's a good question, I think. So I have, like I said, I've, I've been using Terminal for giving talks, presentations.

And I think we should have, we should have like a better support in terms of rendering images and GIFs or GIFs, however you want to say it. Because I'm using present term. Present term is a brilliant tool and it can render like GIFs, code blocks. You can execute code. It's, it works super well. It's the best like presentation tool in the terminal, I think. And I'm using West Term alongside with it. And West Term has the best image support, I believe.

In my experience, it has the best image support. And I find myself switching from Alacrity to West Term back to Elegity, sometimes Rio, because Rio has shader support. And I'm not even experimenting with Ghosty yet. Because I know that Ghostie has some other features. and I didn't really have time. So I basically want, I don't know, we're using so many tools

and I think we should have like some, like some of these things should be giving to us as default and we should not like, I don't know, like you see, like I'm using so many things and I just want to use one thing. If that makes sense. So yeah, I think we should, just improve the overall, like, I don't know, like image support and like, just, you know,

phone support and whatnot and just less, you have less fragmentation in the terminal ecosystem. I am following Terminal Trove. This is a newsletter. And Terminal Tro has this comparison page. And this was something that I have discovered the other day. And they added RATI terminal there. So you can basically pick like different terminals and it compares their features for you. Super useful future. So yeah, I was like I was just looking at the list and I was like, God damn, we have a lot of terminals. And each one has their own way of handling things. So I don't know, maybe maybe like, I don't know, some standards, you know, some kind of.

Yeah, I don't know, man. there's so many projects out there. Like, there's even, like, probably, like, even better, like, terminal emulators out there that we don't even know. So, yeah. So many things to experiment. I think what you're seeing is this sort of, I guess, maybe you want to call it, like, a fracturing where you have these, you have the terminals that are just trying to be

traditional terminals, like your Ghanome terms, console, other things like that, where it's like, these are the terminals that. you're probably going to see ship with an environment, but you're also seeing this new space of experimentation, and because you're seeing a lot of this experimentation, it's hard to really settle on any, like, standards for doing things, because everything is still kind of in flux.

And there's also not that many... Yes, there's a bunch of terminals here, right? But there's not really that many all things considered. So you have kind of... few people working in this space with lots of interesting ideas floating around. So it's this like just kind of

mess that I think has to sort itself out over time. And I think as more of the stuff gets ironed out and as people keep working on cool things and not even just working cool things, people knowing that cool things are being worked on, I would hope that some of this stuff

does start to settle over time. We are seeing some of that, right? With the kiddie image protocol, right? Like, that is something which has kind of settled now. It's not really, like, yes, you have I term stuff as well. Yes, you have

six, but like, I don't really think there's any any real need to like, come up with a new solution there. Whereas these other areas, I think there's, because there's

still, like, early work like 3D stuff, it's going to take a while for that stuff to like sort of trickle out into other projects. Yeah. So I have started a community just just for this purpose because I've seen a lot of like a lot of advancements from different projects. But most of the time, we don't know about each other and they just like, you know, they decide to implement something and they go ahead and do it, and now that becomes their own thing, like kitty image protocol, right? Or like this glyph protocol.

They just, they're in their own bubble, so to speak. So I started this terminal collective Discord server. This is a Discord server. We now have a lot of people there. And I just wanted, like, my goal was to have the maintainers of terminal emulators. multiplexers, two yabs, and all of those people there so that we could have some kind of discussion around what to do next. And this was like the initial idea was this. And I have like promoted this community during my talks, you know, while I was talking to people, conferences and so on.

And it was like, we kind of grew and nowadays we're doing meetups where we basically interview someone from the terminal space and they present their setup to us and they present their tools. So present term, for example, we had the author of present term gave a walkthrough of their setup and like just talked about how they developed present term. How did they know about this new protocols and what do they do? So one example, there is this text size protocol now implemented in Kitty. For those who don't know, you can now have different text sizes in the terminal. So you can have like a small text, big text, medium size. And after this protocol was implemented, present term just went ahead and implement this thing directly and i was like wow how did i know about this did they talk to talk about this before and

how how how like how do people communicate in this space so uh apparently they they talked in an issue and um if we like i was thinking maybe if we could like have this discord server or like i don't know some other matrix server or whatever if he had this place where's like the discussion for those things are like central, we could just, you know, let us know about like what we're working on and we could just, you know, have like a more of a collective, collective way of working in the terminal space. But that hasn't happened yet. We're still doing meetups though. That's, it's going all right, I think. But one day, hopefully we will have like, you know, enough people there, enough, enough maintainers so that we can talk about, like, we can disqual, like, we can disqualify.

on what to do next in the terminal space because, you know, things are like mostly the same nowadays. And the development, like the advancements in this space is a bit, is a bit like fragmented and a bit slow, I would say, because, you know, everyone is doing their own thing. So, yeah, that's my goal with the terminal collective. Okay. No, that's actually super cool. Like that that really would alleviate a lot of those a lot of those like siloing problems

where people just don't know works being done. I'm really curious to see where the terminal space would go then. I would hope you'd see more of a, I guess, reinvigoration and interest in this space where people are just, you know, not just implementing the protocols

because that's one thing right but actually using the protocols and like making cool things with them because it's one thing to provide the tools to do something cool but until something is using that it's kind of just an idea that's floating out there

yeah yeah definitely I mean I've did the RATI graphics protocol and people ask like how do I use it so basically there's a rudder tree widget there that you can use this. But if it's just like out there and nobody's using it, there's no point, you know. And that's why I'm trying to like, you know, spread the words about Rati more so that people

can actually start building applications with it. I really want to like see, you know, cool stuff, like 3D stuff in the terminal. And yeah, that's something that I have done. And I don't know if it will happen. Hopefully it will like. I really want to like see cool stuff. stuff. So yeah, we'll see. So how does the, um, the radiographics protocol actually work?

So I basically took the glyph protocol spec and I've, I like basically I send some bites to the terminal and the terminal is rati. So, uh, it, it just reads a object from a file or a buffer. And that's it basically like you just. You can literally, like, run the print command with the payload, and it will render a 3D object from a file or a buffer. So, yeah, it's just like any other, like, terminal protocol, basically. Super basic stuff. So I am like... Just a custom thing.

Sorry, I cut you off there for a little bit. I am kind of curious about the name. And obviously, the whole Ratatoui stuff as well. It hadn't come up yet. We have to get to it at some point. So, I love rats. Radatwee was a wordplay on the movie. Someone came up with that.

I don't know who came up with the name. So we had, like, when we first forked TIRS, the repository and the organization was called TIRS Revival. My fork is still called TIRS Revival. and we used that for a while and we were like okay we are now a different project we should have a we should have a name and a logo so we did a poll on the name i asked like we asked people on discord and ratatwee was one of the options there and i still don't know who came up with that i asked like a long time after like we picked ratatooe i try to find the exact message

on Discord, like the first ever message, I can't find it. Maybe it was on voice chat in one of the meetings. Like, I don't know. I'm super curious and nobody actually took ownership of the name. So no idea. But that's actually a great name. Fun fact, I watched the Rotary movie after Radar 2y happened. So that's a bit embarrassing on my part.

but anyways never too late so after ratatoui just you know rats I love rats

as animals they're super cool so that became my whole whole persona since I'm like I'm always using like I'm always wearing a hat people think that I have a rat under the hat

so that's that became my whole thing I actually have this mascot over here. So one of my friends, he said, dude, I should 3D print the rat for you. And he actually did this. And I painted this on live stream. This was actually broken a couple of times. But yeah.

So this is my whole whole thing now. And I just love it. And ratty was like, I think it was someone who suggested the name on a live stream. I was the first like idea was um rat term and they were like ratty is a better name and ratis you know words play on on a tt y and rat and because there's like already a term called kitty i was like am that's the perfect name and i just like immediately searched it on github and no project was using it so i was like i'm gonna use ratty and you know i i published the RATI on CRETS I.O. And there was already a terminal emulator called RATI. And I was like,

damn, I cannot take the RATI name and somebody else created another terminal emulator. So I reached out to them on LinkedIn. I asked, hey, dude, I want to like, I will release this project. This is going to, you know, this is going to people will have their attention on this. I think. do you want to like donate the ratty name to me on cratesio and they were like yeah sure i mean you can take it i appreciate what you're doing in ratatui and so on so they knew about ratatui and they knew about me so it was like super super happy so shout out to them i i forget their name but um yeah so they donated the name to me and i took the rati name and it's it's so great i love it rats. I used to have um, um, um, pet rats as a kid. The, they're the only sad thing with rats.

They don't live that long. Yeah. Yeah. I want to have a pet rat at some point. I want to actually like, okay, fun story. Um, I had this, I had this mascot with me at some point. I went to London to give a talk and there was this meetup. And just jokingly, I said like in the meetup page, I said, um, I'm taking the rat with me. I hope that's fine. I was mentioned, like, I was talking about this thing. And they, they were like, sorry, dude, we don't allow pet rats in the venue. You're, you're terribly sorry. And I was like, no, I mean, this is, I'm not talking about pet rats. I'm thinking this. Of course, I didn't flew with the rats under my hat for like, you know, or how long. I don't even remember. But yeah, at some point, I will do it, though. I will actually have a rat under the

hat, I'm going to take it off during a talk, and that's going to be the peak moment of my career. So, what sort of response did you expect from this when you dropped it? Because obviously, it's gotten quite a bit of attention since it first came out. I actually knew that it's going to get some attention because it's looking. hilarious. So I was mostly expecting. So I have done stuff like this before, basically, I've, I have released some projects and they were on the top of hacker news. So I'm kind of used to it. I'm not flexing here, but this happened to me before. Okay, I'm flexing. I'm flexing.

I'm flexing. Okay. Yeah. So basically, I was expecting people to play. play around with this a bit. You know, I was expecting screenshots. I didn't get in screenshots. That's a bit sad. But, you know, I shared it on, on Reddit and on some rising subreddit. So people, I was like specifically expecting people to actually integrate this into their setups and have, I don't know, anime girls spinning or some shit.

So that didn't happen yet. But basically I was, yeah, give it time. So I was expecting to, you know, see some fun stuff. I was having fun building this. It was super fun. And, you know, I just, I just want to have fun. And I just want to see some fun stuff in return. But I, of course, I was not expecting anyone to daily drive this because it's heavy.

But I knew that people were going to daily drive it anyways. So, yeah. And yeah, this was a, this was a good. advertisement for Ratatwe as well, I think. That's fair. Actually, that's a really good point. I wasn't aware of the Ratatoui project before this. Obviously, people clearly were. It's clearly a popular way of building like terminal stuff with Rust, but I think you're all right. It put a bunch of new eyes onto it who weren't really like involved in that space already.

Yeah, it's a good advertisement for Ratatouille and Rust. Over overall because that's my primary project. That's what I'm working on primarily. These stuff are just like, you know, like things that I do for fun. But Redatwee is the main thing. So, you know, I try to develop the library. I try to give workshops, give talks and just, you know, just produce content around this library. So basically this was just the way of.

showing off, you know, you can do things like this using Reda Tree and Rust. And that's what I've been doing for for a while, actually. Like if you go to my social media, if you scroll down, like, you'll see like Reda Tree content every day because I just love what I just love sharing what people have built. Like every day I get like a, you know, a new, I see a new Rotatree project or a, or a rest project and I just love the language. I just love working on Rattu. So that's that's literally my passion and, you know, this is the product of my passion, let's say. Do you have any other ideas in mind for things you want to do? Or is that's something that you're kind of just like not really focusing on right now? So I'm moving to Berlin really soon. I'm,

I want to get into the music space a little bit. We actually did an interview with Christian Grote. He's like he made it like a sampler using Rada Tweet. He's making music entirely in the terminal. Like he has the setup where he just like have a media keyboard and there's like visuals in the terminals and so on. So I want to like, you know, just build more like road of three projects in the music. music space. I'm trying to like, so I have this kickstarted project. It's called two

guitar, this little box over here. Okay. So basically this is a one second I'm getting a call. So this is something that you can plug your guitar into. There's this jack input and it will it'll show you the the tabs and the notes. Everything you play, everything you play, it shows up here and this is entirely rendered with ratatouille this is a prototype and i was using this to learn guitar and you can load songs onto this there's like a guitar hero mode and like real-time tracks your what you're playing and it shows it shows it on a fretboard real-time so something like this doesn't doesn't exist so i just wanted to like kick-start this so maybe i will focus on this next hopefully i've i've written a blog post about this and i've given a talk about all this i

actually played the guitar live on stage it was super stressful like just i think craziest thing they have that i've ever done like on stage um so yeah i i flew to new zealand just to give this talk and you know i had this electric guitar and like this this like box that i didn't know i didn't even know if it's going to work or not, but it worked. So this is like, this is something that I want to do. Maybe like a bit more music related, maybe live performances, but from the terminal, now that we have 3D, you can have like 3D visuals and I don't know, some some cool stuff. I want to like, you know, I want to perform. I want to do like cool stuff, cool visuals. And of course, while doing all of this, keep maintaining ratatouille, keep making content, go to conferences, hangout.

And yeah, like, I want to collaborate more with people as well, like you and, you know, more like, you know, build some cool shit, man. You're definitely building some cool shit. I'll give you that. But that Tui Tauetah thing's very cool I don't know if you've seen in the background I do have a guitar back there I'm not very good at I should I I bought it with the intention to practice

and then I got lazy and didn't practice much I definitely should do it more it is fun but no this this project is super cool as well I do like that I mean, I still don't know how to play guitar. I built it, but so I had like three months of just, no, three, I was speed running.

So the idea was, I want to build this and I want to actually learn a song and just perform it on stage. And I focused on building this so much that I forgot to practice in the meantime. this thing works but I didn't really practice so I know only like one one or two songs I like I uploaded the Minecraft team on this so you can like learn the like learn the tabs but you know this is like still in the prototype stage I basically like speed run the whole like whole thing and also like I live streamed the whole like development so you can literally just watch me make mistakes on YouTube. Like I was soldering live.

I literally soldered live and I soldered something's wrong and didn't work. And yeah, all my stuff is recorded. So I just love, you know, building on like open and, you know, interacting with people. So yeah, maybe next next thing is just, you know, properly learning guitar. build this thing play it you'll see well at least

you know enough to to test the hardware that's that's probably fine yeah I mean I was on stage and I forgot to like plug in the jack the amplifier and I was just super scared

like what the hell why is there's no like sound but luckily this thing was okay and I was just not plugging the the cable. But yeah, like, you never know. Like, if you follow me on, like, internet, my next move is always just like some random shit.

And that's what I love about it. You know, I'm like, I'm about terminals, but, you know, I do embedded now, like, I do embed it randomly. And the next day I'm doing a terminal emulator. And the next day, I'm doing this, the other thing. So all over the place and just, you know, just experiment and just see what happens.

Be present, you know. Well, you're also involved in Arch Linux packaging as well. Yeah, that's just the side thing nowadays. I basically joined at the same time that I started writing Rust. I was packaging Rust projects for Arch Linux. And the reason why is, like, I've, I was just lurking in IRC and I was just like, you know, reading ArchWiki and I was just really impressed by by the people who work in the team and, like, what they were doing.

And, you know, they're, like, I was super impressed, basically. So I was like, okay, I need to, I need to do more and to contribute to this distra because I'm using this. and I like how it works. It's super nice. So what can I do next? So started packaging Rust applications, and I had like 100 packages on AUR. And I gave a talk.

There was like an online ArchConf during COVID times. So I gave a talk there. I send an application for becoming a package maintainer. and I got accepted and I just basically, ever since then, I've been dropping Rust packages in the official repos. If there's some cool, like, Tui app written Rust, I probably packaged it in the repos. So that was my thing, basically. Discover a project, start using that in my workflow, package it, make it available for other people. So basically like, you know, do the whole thing.

Oh, you want to maintain this on the ESA package? Oh, okay. I've got the list up right now. I'm just scrolling through it and just seeing anything here that I use. Yeah, so, yeah, a bunch of packages that I maintain these days. It's hard to catch up sometimes. But this thing also helped me a lot with making connections in the open source space. Because I contribute back to those packages, either by, you know, documentation or bug fixes or whatnot.

So basically, like, I made friends during, like, during this packaging activity. This was super cool. I also, like, made friends with the guys in the arch team. There's super talented people. And I had the opportunity to, you know, like, to use this. voluntary work to be more visible. And this was like a mutual benefit because I was contributing to Arch Linux. And this was contributing back to my visibility on the internet.

So it was win and I just love the distro, man. It's so great. I cannot move away from Arch. I mean, everything is running Arch. Arch everywhere. You know, I have so many key chains and 3D printed stuff, T-shirt. And we actually, we actually, I met the team first time in 2021 or 22 in Hamburg. We have like yearly meetups and super nice people.

Like so many, so many like great ideas happening in there. So I don't know. Like you just love Arch overall. So yeah. What originally, what originally, uh, Broyd did arch? Like, how'd you get, not to just like get involved, but like actually like get started using the distro? Just hype, man. Like, uh, I still like, arch, arch, by the way. And I was like, okay, let me give this a try. And, uh, I was using KDE, like, uh, plasma when I first installed it. And I switched to I tree and I've been just stuck with

tree ever since then. So basically hype and you know rising and yeah I mean you could you could tell like I'm I like following the the hype a little bit like I've just starting using rust because one of my friends he told me that there's this rust language and it's difficult and he seemed very cool to me and I was like dude I should learn rust too because it's it feels like different thing and it's cool so yeah that's why I started using Rust. But nowadays, I'm not following the hype that much because I'm stuck in Arch and Rust. So I haven't.

I actually, okay, I have tried Alpine and Zig. And those are cool, but went back to Rust and Arch. So I don't know. I haven't tried Nix yet. No opinions on Nix. Every time that I, every time I talk about something that, has anything to do with packaging

I always get Nix P from my comments be like Nix fixes that I'm sure it does I'm sure it does I don't care yeah I mean okay I contributed to Nix

like I have one package I think but that's it like okay I mean it's fine it's fine but yeah Nix Flakes no opinions

I don't want to get cancelled. Every time that I've... I've had Nix people on here to explain Nix to me. I end up leaving the episode with more questions than I started. Oh, man. Oh, man. Yeah, I'm... I'm not involved in that much drama.

Like, I have no idea. I've made it... Like, I'm trying to create drama here, man. Like, I create a 3D Eternal Emulator. Come on. That's true. I mean, I don't have time for more drama. So, yeah, please come, like, attack me with 3D terminal questions.

No next question. Yeah, good plan. Stick with the 3D questions. Stick with, like, the weird, the weird possible use cases you can come up with for the 3D in a terminal. I'm sure So one of the things I mentioned in my video is like when you You've created this like thing to do

Like to do something cool Now you've sort of opened up the floodgates For the people that have the weird ideas That have just always had this idea in their head And just never had a place to implement it Um Let me think I think

Like the most like The most people wanted to have this CAD 3D CAD program. So we already have it now, kind of. I mean, I couldn't live demo it, but it's out there. It works, trust me. What else? I'm not sure, man.

I have, I had so many different ideas while building this. At some point, I just wanted to build a terminal game where you have the POV of a rat in a terminal where you just move between cells and so on it was just the crazy crazy thing but I haven't seen something that is

like I haven't read at least something that is that is going to be a bit untraditional if it makes sense I haven't seen that idea yet but I'm hoping that that will

come soon right now I feel like people are kind of digest in what they have seen. And as time goes on, I think we will start seeing more more things. So there's actually like one one interesting use case where there's this person who's trying to like draw some some geometric shapes and they were stuck because I did a mistake in the code where it was like the shading was a bit wrong. So just give it some time. I also need to fix some things. And we need to make like, we need to do more experiments.

Right now the demos work fine. But yeah, just give it some time. More experiments. Like give it a bit more like minor versions of Rati. And I think we'll start to see more stuff. And hopefully after this episode, people try it out and send me screenshots that would be so great. One of the things I did notice when I was looking at stuff for Radi,

apparently there's a way to do 3D with Kitty already and with, you can do it in the ghosty terminal as well. Someone showed like a demo of 3D running and ghosty. I didn't know you could already do that. You mean the Hacker News comment, right? I saw that as well. Yeah, and there's like a link to a video of it. being uh being done yeah i i haven't looked into it um i'm not sure if it's like a shader or an actual

protocol protocol thing but um yeah i haven't checked it i and to and to see it okay fair enough so yeah no no comments they're like okay there's so many things to catch up after i released this this was like on on the first place on hackernoos for for a long time so there's like so many comments so yeah i i literally took like a day or two just going through everything and just creating issues and replying to comments and i got banned from lobsters uh just because i was doing like a bit more like self promo i think they they banned my like they blacklisted my domain so i cannot i i no longer post i can no longer post my own blog posts on lobsters. She's a bit sad. And my post was deleted because someone, someone said it was

wipe coded. It was not. Okay. I've read everything to the last semicolon. But of course, it was AI assisted. So yeah. Yeah, I was, yeah, I felt a bit bad. And then there was like another lobsters, um, lobsters tread where people just said like the like the quality of posts is dropping because of AI, journey to the content. Maybe I triggered that. I don't know. I didn't really comment on anything. Like, it was sad. It's sad, sad, sad times.

Honestly, that's generally for the best. Like, you don't need to be reading opinions about yourself, reading opinions about your work. It's generally not good for you. Whether it's positive or negative, as someone who has probably gotten tens of thousands. of comments about myself, I would encourage you to avoid it. Yeah, that's that's a good point.

I mean, you probably know, no better than me, but I don't usually like get a lot of comments. Like, my live streams are usually not many people and I usually know the people were watching my live stream. So it's, it's a bit like, you know, I value their opinions. But maybe sometimes when you've released something, you should just close your eyes a little bit. Yeah, okay. I did that for Lipsish. That's a bit different.

Like, when you're, when it's like a small community people you know, like that's, sure, absolutely. But like people outside of your community, they were like random people who've never interacted with your work before. It's, it's not worth it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, to be honest, with the hacker news stuff, I don't read most of the comments because it's just like people arguing about something.

unrelated and and I was like okay this is not even about me then why would I you know get involved and that usually that's that's good for the for the project though it's so weird like when you get like get people when you get people talking about about something that's usually when you get more visible which is kind of weird like they're not even talking about my project. They're just arguing about AI and I'm like, I'm getting upvotes in the meantime. I'm like, what the hell is going on? Like, it's, it's weird. But maybe it's, it's, it's just the way it is. I have no idea. Well, since it's come up a couple of times throughout the, uh, the talk, like, how was AI actually used in the project? So the first, like when I first implemented this,

I took, uh, the repository from, from this, uh, 3D animation thing that, that I've seen. Like it was using software 3 and bevy. I took the repo and I literally said like, I want to build something like this. So give me a like really something really simple. Just simplify the whole thing. Just give me the skeleton of the project. So just initialize the project. So I basically approached it as as, you know, like any other project of mine, which is, you know, just step by step.

So I didn't like wipe code the whole thing. I didn't say, create it. 3D terminal emulator make it like you know 3d spinning rat and so on so I started from from the very beginning I had the skeleton like set up project setup and then I said um so I basically like prompted a little bit there I said add a shell make it like a terminal and then um just render a surface I did that and I had like a it took like 2D terminal just a simple shell And then I said, I didn't immediately have the idea of having a 3D terminal emulator. So I wanted to have a rat cursor, not even spinning rat, just the rat cursor.

I said, like, use this object file. I downloaded a 3D rad object. And then I said, like, use this object file, place it on the cursor. And this took actually a week to properly implement. because I was trying to do this in our HackerSpace session. So I tried to do this in like one hour. I failed horribly. It was not working.

And then I quit. And then I came back after a week and I tried again. And this time it worked. And I had the cursor as the rat. So it was moving and I had the terminal. And then after that I was like, okay, what do I do next? Just, you know, make it like a terminal emulator. So, you know, make like better font support.

Because in at first it was like, it was really bad. Like it was just Minecraft text, you know, like super blocky. It was like everything is weird. When you resize the terminal, like you resize it like the terminal would stretch. Like it wouldn't adopt to the size. So you could virtually like stretch the text. And I was like, what the hell? So I had to fix those like problems.

And then like on every step, I've like checked what I was building because I knew like I had the same experience from other projects. If I gave AI full control, I would get lost at some point and I don't understand anything anymore. So I was just checking every step. I was making sure that everything is correct. Everything is right. I understand the code. So add the rat cursor, make it like a proper terminal emulator. And what did I do next?

I don't even remember when the idea of having the 3D mode came to me, but I added the 3D mode where I could zoom out, like press a key, zoom out, be able to rotate the terminal. And at first it didn't have the backside. So it would just like just you could rotate it, but like it's two-d thing. And then I added that. backside and then I have lost some time just experimenting with different ideas there. I wanted to have the terminal as a tick block.

That didn't work. I wanted to have like embroidered, I don't know if that's the right word, embroidered like characters, like kind of like, you know, I wanted to have like a depth for, oh yes, yes, yes, yeah. Yeah, okay. for each character that didn't work so basically i added the 3d mode and um i make it configurable i make it like i don't know better font support better rendering and like like i said in the beginning it was it was unusable it was really bad so i had some help from friends um gold silver copper he created the parley rosa too he created just for this project he's an amazing person

and like he has he he he's done the heavy lifting man like you know the the random person in in nebraska meme there the whole infrastructure is on one little block he's he's that person right there so um yeah he created that library and i've used that and and after that was just like any other terminal emulator and um the rendering was really broken man like i was running h top and like the character was all over the place it was not great. So I had to fix some issues, but on every step, I was checking the output of the, of the AI. So like, I was basically like developing this step by step. And the Mobius strip, or I think it's pronounced as Mubius, Mobius, I don't know. The Mobyus strip was, was just like, I added that

just before the before the day that I released the project. This was not there. I visited a friend. He's like, he's like a mechanics, like mechatronics. Some guy was the super smart guy.

Right, right, right. And I visited him and he was like, hey, can you do the, the Mobius strip from this? I'm like, what is that? He was like, he took a piece of paper and was like, okay, you do this and this is like a mobile strip. I was like, okay, maybe I can do that.

And we implemented that and it was just added. Also, like, he told me about the gumberg, the rock shape. And, like, we started experimenting. I actually made, like, a paper plane mode. So you could, like, you could have a paper plane from the terminal. This was implemented, but I didn't commit it. So, yeah. And, oh, my God.

I just remembered, holy shit. We actually did like when you quit the terminal The like the terminal would turn into a paper plane Like it would fold it himself fold itself And it will just fly away I implemented this but I haven't commented If you want another fun idea that you could implement Um

Origami crane Oh man Yeah Absolutely I mean There are so many things like so yeah that that day um that evening we just spent like a couple of hours just trying to like render the terminal as a as a bottle as a paper plane as a as a as a gunbook that was so fun so yeah i

like the mobya strip so i i left it in but the other stuff is is probably in my git stash somewhere So yeah, the whole process of developing this was step by step, just check every step. And, you know, I have developed like other open source projects in the past where I didn't use any AI. So I was like, I was familiar with the whole thing. And okay, I need to mention and give a shout out to to Stroopox for the logo. because I made the whole thing and I needed a logo. So I created an issue, a discussion on GitHub.

I said, hey, I'm going to release this. I need a logo. Who wants to help me? And I shared this on my socials. And this person just randomly created the logo for Rati. They posted on the discussion. And I invited them to Discord. And we had a call there.

we talked about like what to do and we had like multiple versions of this logo and at the end like he added the um the VHS animation to to the screen and like I am super happy with how it turned out so shout out to Stroopox for for the logo and we we collaborated on that and yeah just like a cheese computer thing I don't even notice it was cheese okay that makes sense Yeah, yeah, it was like a VT 100 type of a computer, but as a cheese. So, yeah, I just love it. It looks so cool. So, yeah, I love contributing. I love collaborating with people on open source project. It's the best thing in the world, man. So, yeah, I also have like a 3D object version of this logo, but I haven't used it anywhere.

Maybe I will use it somewhere. I don't know. So, yeah. Yeah. That's the whole story. Now that's awesome. I think we've pretty much covered everything at this point. I did want, but very not important at all.

Is that a bunch of bionicles on the shelf behind you? Man, yeah. I love bionicles. Like, basically my dream was to build robots as a show. child and I'm into bionicles and I didn't maybe I did I don't remember I probably built some robots but yeah I just love bionicles and huge fan I should I should say so yeah are you also into bionicles as well I had some as a kid but not really like I I like them as a kid because I liked robots but like I don't have any at this

point, but I do think they're cool. Yeah, I mean, in Turkey, we didn't have all the, all these sets, sadly, but I just got the ones that I got. And when I first got my, like, first bionicle, it's, I think it was this guy or this was the second, but I didn't know it was, it was a bionicle. So I looked, looked it up on the internet. And at some point, like, at that point, I didn't know any English. so I don't know what I was looking at, but it was super cool. So, yeah, I mean, I got.

No, no, it's all good. He's chill. So, yeah. And also, like, I have played the games. And, you know, there's, like, PS2 games with the, with those, like, special aesthetics of, like, you know, back in the day, like direct X type of aesthetics I just love them as well

so like 3D 3D stuff I just have a like a soft spot for bionicles and nostalgia and like you know stuff like that now they are sick that is that is really cool thanks man appreciate

was there anything else you wanted to touch on we pretty much get to everything not really man I mean thanks for the opportunity to just talk about all the stuff I'm doing. I know that it sounds like I'm a bit all over the place

but it's it's just how it is man like open source is is very unpredictable you know you work on some project you meet some person and all of a sudden you're just a maintainer or you're just at a conference

giving a talk so I just love the randomness part of open source. So I'm super glad that, you know, this project made me, made me YM and, you know, be present here and just talking with you and, you know, talking about rats, cheese and rust, I guess. So, yeah, appreciate the, appreciate the stage. Yeah, no, absolute pleasure. I hope the project goes well. I hope Ratatoui goes well. And, um, If I happen, hopefully if you make another project, I will realize who it was this time. Now that I know the face behind the account.

If you see like some project with some rat wordplay or a cheese concept, that's probably me at this point. Okay, I'll definitely keep that in mind. Yeah. Nothing else, nothing else you want to mention? Pretty much good there. Yeah, if you want to support me, GitHub sponsors, you know. And yeah, that's it, I guess. You also have your YouTube and various other things.

Yeah, I mean, YouTube, you know, I, I livestream all my mistakes and all the behind the scenes content. So if you want to follow me there, go for it. But yeah, I will be around on GitHub. probably so yeah okay well i'll leave your links uh in the description and if you want to check those out then um yeah go and do those yeah appreciate i will do my outro and then we'll sign off yeah go for it okay my main channel is brodie robinson i do linux videos there six-ish days a week sometimes i stream as well it has been a while but i'll get to it eventually um i also have the gaming channel i do stream there i stream there twice a week uh by the time this comes out i don't

know what are we playing? Probably still Shenmu 3 and maybe Metal Gear Solid 3, maybe death stranding, I don't know, check out the channel, I don't know, maybe I'm playing something else. If I go to the channel, you'll find something. If you're watching the video version, this, find the audio version, or basically every podcast platform at Tech Over T. The video is going to be on YouTube at Tech Over T. You will find it there. We'll serve a Spotify video as well, if you like your Spotify video. How do you want to sign us off? What do you want to say?

Play Rat Shaker next time. What the hell is... On your gaming channel. What is Rat Shaker? Sorry. Sorry, we're going to get sidetracked for a moment. What is rat Shaker? Just play.

Okay. Sure. Okay. Fine. You're going to regret it. Okay. Oh, sure.