Tech Over Tea - Everything Is Going Wrong Today | Ship It

Episode Date: October 3, 2025

Today we have Ship It, the developers of the upcoming action tower defense game called Blood Vow: Survive The Night on the show, and this episode was a little chaotic with a lot of things being prepared on the fly.Wishlist the game: https://store.steampowered.com/app/3461150/Blood_Vow_Survive_the_Night/==========Support The Channel==========► Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/brodierobertson► Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/BrodieRobertsonVideo► Amazon USA: https://amzn.to/3d5gykF► Other Methods: https://cointr.ee/brodierobertson==========Guest Links==========Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/3461150/Blood_Vow_Survive_the_Night/Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@blood_vow_?_t=ZS-8xubvw5lvO5&_r=1Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/blood_vow/==========Support The Show==========► Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/brodierobertson► Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/BrodieRobertsonVideo► Amazon USA: https://amzn.to/3d5gykF► Other Methods: https://cointr.ee/brodierobertson=========Video Platforms==========🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBq5p-xOla8xhnrbhu8AIAg=========Audio Release=========🎵 RSS: https://anchor.fm/s/149fd51c/podcast/rss🎵 Apple Podcast:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tech-over-tea/id1501727953🎵 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3IfFpfzlLo7OPsEnl4gbdM🎵 Google Podcast: https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy8xNDlmZDUxYy9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw==🎵 Anchor: https://anchor.fm/tech-over-tea==========Social Media==========🎤 Discord:https://discord.gg/PkMRVn9🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/TechOverTeaShow📷 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/techovertea/🌐 Mastodon:https://mastodon.social/web/accounts/1093345==========Credits==========🎨 Channel Art:All my art has was created by Supercozmanhttps://twitter.com/Supercozmanhttps://www.instagram.com/supercozman_draws/DISCLOSURE: Wherever possible I use referral links, which means if you click one of the links in this video or description and make a purchase we may receive a small commission or other compensation.

Good morning, good day, and good evening. I'm as who is your host, Brodie Robertson. And today we are back for, I don't know what number we're on, but it's getting close to 300. And today we have another one of the game developer podcast. Today we have, I don't know what either of your positions are in the project. I didn't ask you before. It's, we were, pending, we were discussing this today because they're so, few people on our team.

It's like, what do we call everyone? It's like, we'll get back to answer on that one. We are all directors of various fields. I guess professional plate spinners. Yeah, technical director and animation director, but we both do a bunch of other crap. Right, right, right.

Yeah, yeah. Well, regardless of what your actual titles are, I guess we should talk about the game itself. I always like to ask Indie Dems this question because some of them will come up with like ah yes I am the director of all things fun and I am you know they'll have like a serious title other people which is like

I don't I've never had any reason to think about this problem yeah it's only be more of a recent thing where we actually have to put down a very specific role right right oh shit well I do modeling, animation, rigging, effects, a little bit of programming. How much space do you have?

Yeah. How many times can I put my name with different titles? It's... Anyway, the game, Blood Vow Survive the Night. Yeah. That's the game. That's the guy. So, it's, uh, we've been working on it for...

Hold on, skip my own. working out for what a year or a handful of months yeah i think 14 months at this stage and uh you know it's it'd be easy to sort of throw out the whatever the the log line at the moment is but um it's sort of top down survival action hack and slashy towel defancy it's a bigger melting pot of the things we like um from across being like like console gamers and computer gamers in something that we can make in our spare time while we're working, really.

Yeah, the vibe I got from it when I played was like action tower defense, I think is kind of like the simplest way to put it. That's a really good way of thing. I think that's the answer was writing the new branding today. I'm fairly sure that's what he was going with. How old is action power defense.

Yeah. I think, yeah, something like that. Yeah Don't know your titles Don't know the genre There's a new trailer I think today Ooh

Is that on the Steam page Is that the Because there's two videos on here There's the announcement The demo announcement And then the cinematic trailer I know that he put A trailer

On to YouTube yesterday Uh huh Okay, let's see if we can find that then. Yeah, I'll just grab a link for that real quick. The YouTube's not linked on the same page. It's on. Oh, yeah, of course not. We're a professional operation.

Mary. The... Yeah, I don't... I don't know. It'd be somewhere. I'm sure. I think you finished it. I'm not sure.

So... Because, like, what we're, um, we're currently aiming for. For Wednesdays, big deadline, is it packs? Yeah, okay. So we're in the process of getting a lot of things ready for packs, which, you know, I assume, you know, you've been around getting things ready for packs. It's a, not always, a easy, streamlined, smooth, successful process where you finish everything on time. as long as we're not pulling all-nighters like last year yeah yeah yeah yeah I think the fact that we're

this organized this disorganized what like six weeks beforehand yeah it means we're doing pretty well really like I don't want to know what doing badly is then what you were saying last year was a problem what was last year like I mean it was a little bit of a problem it wasn't that bad it worked the game worked

people liked it we drove directly did I sleep before yeah two packs to bump in he had not slept yeah

I probably got a little bit of sleep in the car yeah and then you did more programming that night for the build to play the next day for the public it was fantastic

and it went really really well um I wasn't stressed at all. No, no, no. I think you were too sleep-deprived to be stressed. Yeah, the magic. Yeah.

So, I don't know. It's the... Because we're just a bunch of mates who do contract work, surrounding games, making game largely in our spare time. And under our own Steam, you know, it's certainly a more relaxed environment. will say, which is good.

Hence is the organised one. We don't have like scrums or stand-ups or anything. We have to do any serious kind of toxic software development things. You just sort of just have fun making a game.

Yeah. So what does... I mean, our scrums are gone for coffee. Yeah. As long as you know that there's like work being done, that's good enough. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, like, yeah, we, you know, it's still, we've got version control and the holy whiteboard and stuff. Like, it's still a, it's still a proper project for that, right, right. Just, uh, nobody's getting paid, so, you know. So, you're both saying that you do a lot of different things than the project, but what are your actual, like, backgrounds before the game was started? So I did a deployment of 2D, 3D animation over in Vancouver, and then I came in and did the TAFE Flinders pathway specializing in games specifically. So very much in optimized workflows. I've been in Unreal Engine for over a decade now.

And then a lot of contract work takes on animation side, and there's been a lot of virtual production and... things that are all utilizing the game engine itself so every time we do a project like that it's like oh i can use that like i didn't i didn't know about this specific feature but that has solved so many issues that i didn't think about um and so um darcy and i opened up a co-op workspace um beginning of 2021 um and so we have i think there's 18 of us in the office now and we're Where he currently is. Yeah. Where I currently am.

And so we've got Unreal developers. We've got Unity developers. We have people that come in just do contract. We've got writers. We've got loads of different artists that come through. Maybe two big Unity teams at the moment. Yeah. But there's so much knowledge share.

It's like anyone runs into an issue. It's like, does anyone have a good solve for this? And the communication will just start. and other people jump in and be like, oh, I didn't know you could do that. It's actually one of my favorite things. I imagine being in a space like that also helps you feel kind of, kind of accountable to do work,

because there are other people around you who are also working as well. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Because it started like not as a, it wasn't originally a game development office, really. Like we, you know, we did game development training. sort of visual arts digital media training um and uh just wound up doing contract work and you when you're doing contract work it's just easier if you have a office to work out of right um

like in terms of you know your own mental health and organizing meetings just planning things doing stuff so the yeah that's where it started and the community came came from us doing the game dev course at uni and that the way that everyone shared knowledge and it was a I don't know like a wholesome experience we tried to carry that on into the

like professional work area that we were building and that's a yeah so great what is um what is your background does we kind of got sidetracked there as we were talking about other stuff oh yeah i'll do that don't worry um i uh have a weird one to be a what the lead programmer on on this um you know a you find yourself doing more programming work the longer you do these things

uh i did 2d art out of you know back in 2012 or whenever at ac arts and then went into digital media at cdw um after working like a bunch of random you know, classic cospo jobs and shit, um, to try and do 2D digital art, um, and then switch to 3D, but like halfway through that.

And then, have just been contracting in the weird adjacent tech space since then. So like, touchscreens for museums, uh, digital puppetry.

Yeah, digital puppetry. um we did the volcap thing um what's that which is uh volumetric capture we mix and i built the first commercial i have to say commercial because i reckon there was a study one before uh volumetric capture rig in the country which is like yeah weird stuff um because like i don't know the more contracts you can say yes to the easier your job in this space is going to be, really. So we were just learning new stuff and doing a bunch of random things

that might not fall under game dev training specifically, but it's all the same software, it's all the same skills and stuff. So a bunch of weird stuff. I know that doesn't answer your question, but I don't have a good answer. That's fine. That's fine. I like the weird answers. Yeah. We made Google Maps like three times.

three times, two times? Do you count the... You'd be surprised what... The Hans Free Exhibition. What? So, during COVID, we did a... What's called immersion? Oh, immerse, yeah, yep, yeah.

It was... Oh, it was called immersion because of this. There's so many things called very similar things. It was a... like 45-minute, how would you describe it? I was using the volume. Experience. A hands-free, immersive experience.

It was called an experience. It was an experience. Lots of stories and then lots of interactive environments where Lassie did all the programming so that using the cameras, if you're waving your hands in certain directions, you'd either be pointing a spotlight or shooting paintballs or stirring up the fish.

It would just go from story to story. And it was using the same volume displays that they use in all the Marvel and Star Wars TV shows and stuff. So the big LED walls that wrap around the studio. That's a lot of fun. It's like a big oval. It was fun. Yeah. Yeah.

So like lots of random crap. This weird tech art adjacent space is what we've been in and out of using game engines to, not make games. Yeah. Yeah, I think a lot of people forget that like Unreal Engine is used in movie production and like, it's not just a game engine at this point. Disney use it for everything.

And it's like just becoming more and more accessible for everyone. Especially with the virtual production side of things. It's getting pretty good. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I still, I mean, like, I use it professionally. Each, Unreal, I have my complaints.

It's pretty good. Yeah. So, yeah, that's what we've been doing up until we made the game, I guess. And as you can see, after doing, you know, so much work in and around the space using the same tools, eventually you're like, man, you should just make a damn game. So was this like a long, thought-out idea, or did it kind of just, hey, let's make a game? It kind of started with Ant saying, hey, let's make a game. He pitched an idea to us, and then we had a very intense eight-week stint to Avcon last year. I think he'd done a bunch of concept on.

Wait, you're at, sorry, you were at Avon last year? Yes. it was out wait uh what would no uh if you saw a booth that was like just a was it a TV it was a TV

you're just a TV no branding um and a bunch of people standing around with like a decent product for what I was sure I could whatever it was being like is this game loop fun mm hmm mm-hmm cool um

don't worry about uh following us or anything we'll be uh we'll be back to the next one with an actual thing. That was just how we did the... Right. I don't know. That's how we treat conventions. Free game testing, that's huge. Like, so testing that mechanics are fun, testing that the game loop works, like, that's the main thing we're there for. No, the reason I ask is because I, I did like all this where it's like, oh, go around and talk to the indie devs last year. I don't... I didn't see you guys there. Maybe I didn't, maybe I didn't spot the, we were intentionally, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, just sort of, your eyes moved past.

Right, right. That doesn't look done, keep going. So, what was the state of the, you said it was like an eight-week stint to get it ready for Avcon? Like, what, what did the game look like at the time? I, it had a, extremely, extremely, it had a, extremely, extremely, it. Yeah, I think it... I think I had, like, one or two of the enemies, the day-night cycle. Like, the combat, I think you could light attack and heavy attack, and maybe...

I don't know if it had much else. Yeah, I'm not sure. And it was just sort of like a... Because, like, at the heart of it, that dynamic day-night system and the hack and slash combat and sort of using different elements to move the players around the levels that we have is the core element of the game. So that's, yeah, pretty much what we went into it with. And a level that was full of a bunch of prefab crap.

Right. That we had to rip out of the project. So I played the trailer earlier, but I do have to have. bunch of people that listen to the show. For anyone who didn't see it, just explain like what the state of the game is, like, as of now, as of, I assume it hasn't had like a massive shift since Avicon, but I guess that was like a two or so months ago. Yeah, actually, it was like two months ago at this point, yeah. The stuff we've been working on, would it be in that trailer? If it was in the trailer, then yes, there has been a massive shift. If it isn't yet, then

no, we've been working on new stuff, like, quite a lot of new stuff for the last two months. Like, there was what, like, three demo done by I've gone, and there will be.

So, yeah, a bunch of levels are the lobby, like a full feature in that lobby. With, um, like, you know, your standard four player join your thing, your people's all stand in your Rowan, you've got you, like, bells and whistles.

Yep. Yep. Yep. Um, so, yeah, that sort of stuff. So what is the, what is the basic, I guess, gameplay loop? Just to be sort of on the understanding of, like, what you're trying to do in the game. Do you want to take it? Do you want me? Yeah, you can do it. I've just crashed. Ooh. I was wondering why he turned blue. I look at my sound still works. Yeah, I can still see with the video as well.

So you get summoned in. We start off with like, you know, the leftover husks from the previous night. And then it's basically... Sorry, I should be able to explain this off the top of my head. It's real, real easy, but I'm just pooped. the first night starts and you get your first wave of enemies as it progresses through the level daytime gets shorter and shorter and the nights get longer and longer and you're trying to protect the remaining followers basically you want to go set up more defenses because each night there

are even more monsters coming out and by the end of the fixed um Night times, through the levels, you'll have, like, whatever remaining followers you have, you can put into upgrading your character. So it is... Upgrades would entail what? Different weapon abilities, different specials, different towers, tower unlocks. So, like, you know, the standard, like, one, two, three kind of tower progression system. But we also want to make it that you have to do X. before you can unlock

like Y and Z right so you couldn't just like fast track to end game equipment down like one route and then cheese everything not on the first play through no sure I mean it's yeah it's I don't think it's it's

I don't know we're going to be thinking about our progression while we're at Pax so this will be one of the things we're trialling there we'll be going there with sort of some minimal RPG systems testing the like level progression thing so we're going with our three levels that happen in sequence um and yeah we have the holy whiteboard has ideas for how we're

progressing with this um and yeah the general idea because like small team doing this not full time is that we've and you like to release the game eventually yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah um 2026? Are we allowed to say that? I'm saying. I know that we don't have a, there's not a number with a cue involved in that, but I think we can officially say 2026. We know how many, like, playable characters there are in terms of animations, how many towers there are, how many enemies there's going to be in it. What we don't know is exactly how many side grades there will be, because that's how we're going to handle a lot of our progression.

is get these the concepts that we've done the most to work on in terms of fitting them into how the game works and all that and then just adjust those per different play styles

different play styles different ways that we'll see we'll see as an example of what you mean there like what would you be thinking of so to give you an idea we've got um uh i think the aura tower or the the projectile towers might be a good idea um

currently the base mode of our area of effect aura tower is that it slows enemies um and then depending on how we go through the game testing at packs we'll try we'll probably try like dot so damage over time while we're there see how that feels for players um see how it feels to, like, how balanced being able to heal yourself is, that sort of thing. And we, we're, like, you know, we're systems, enthusiast game nerds. So we'll just sort of be trialling a bunch of interacting upgrade options with the lovely people that come to play our game at Pax. Okay.

Thank you. Free testers. So that sort of thing. And then, in terms of the level progression, I think we settled on, like, the stock, I don't know if it's a tree or if it's a... I don't have a progress in the last. Yeah. You know, you sort of unlock things and then can go back and rank...

Right. Rank levels to unlock stuff. So it's all going to be inclusive in the game package, where we're hopefully going to and it just releases as a game. And then your progression, you know, you earn through playing the game. So we don't have to manage live service. No. Fiso.

My God. Yeah. So the game is also co-op. And is the intention for single player to be viable? Or is co-op kind of like... Yeah. Okay, so you are going to try to adjust things based on number of players, I assume, then.

That's what we've been trying to... That's one of things, on other things we'll be game testing moving forward and have been for a while, is, yeah, how do you balance for different number of player experiences? Because, like, you know, if you've got classic systems like Diablo,

where depending on how many people in the 1 to 8 player limit, you had it just got, the numbers were tweaked or the intermediate numbers were tweaked. I think a lot of it will be, like, the enemy spawn counts as well. But there would just be some levels, which, like, I was going to say that the... I was going to be playing as much multiplayer as others.

Yeah. Yeah, there will definitely be levels that are set up more for player, certain numbers of players, just because level design is going to do a lot there. And whether or not you, you know, we have... levels that unlock areas depending on how many people play um because you know it's a multi-lane tower event system um yeah so we've got a lot of tools to figure that out well i reckon well currently we're balancing it for two players um which will give us a way to go up and down more easily hopefully uh but yeah i don't know how do you balance a four-player co-op experience

Yeah, there's a lot of different ways you're going to approach because you make a good point there about level design where if you have things placed far apart like naturally with a single person they're going to be harder to deal with so it's just a really tough problem I don't know if there's a good way I think the only thing you can do is just play test it a lot

and just see what works and see what feels good Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's sort of the attitude we've had to most of the things in this, so we're just going to keep doing that, see what feels good. Not aggressively, we're not going to aggressively adjust like health numbers.

You can, not that. Easy way out. Because like the combat's so finely tuned to it feeling good as a hack and slash that like if you took away people's abilities to you know kill low level enemies in a single hit or that sort of that sort of thing and you take away the like what feels good

right yeah damage making things damage sponges just never it never really especially in the type of game where we're building which is like the you want something to a single hit one of the enemies at least to explode into like a nice ball of endorphins Like, sound real crunchy. Yeah. Ideally, we're just, you know, double the amount of enemies that are coming out. Yeah, yeah.

Surely that'll work. Just scale up linearly. There's no, definitely going to be a problem there. Yeah. I know we can, we can shove out up to, like, what do we test? Do we, like, 1,200 or something? Something ridiculous. So we'll see about that.

We'll see about that. Yeah. I don't know. We have this like, we've built a bunch of these systems, and now we're just going to playtest them until we release the game and see how the audience, you know, thinks it feels fun to play. Because we know what feels fun to play. We don't know how to play the game in a way that, you know, currently might make you finish the game with the most followers. I don't know if it's fun, but. our opinions in this from the start are probably the most important because we're being developing the game

and playing the game for the last year and a bit I don't trust us to make rational decisions right especially not him he's freakishly good at the game so yeah

this is the problem with like any sort of of like software design where you you know you you focus so much on the project and you know it like in and out that you can really easily overlook any problem because you know how to work around them and you're just kind of you just subconsciously avoid the problem areas you subconsciously just ignore things that you know are an issue that's why so like again the free the free tester thing with with cons like it's good to get new eyes on it to see like are we actually going in the right direction here yeah Has this been moving forward in that sort of stuff? I mean, it's not just with, you know, it's just with things in general. Thanks, Anz, for noticing, by the way.

The UI I've been working on for the lobby doesn't have a key piece of a functionality that it's supposed to have. Not because I didn't want to do it. I just forgot that it was supposed to be there. And these things, when you're looking at something for how many hours, you just sort of forget how it works anyway. Right. Yeah, you are supposed to be able to change your weapons. That's probably important.

Yeah, yeah, that's, uh, yeah. So, stuff like that. So it's been about a year the project's been in progress for how happy are you with the state of things and how things have been progressing? I fucking love it. It's getting to the point where it's just like, shit me, this is a game.

Even since you left work today. I've checked it a couple of systems, which you'll see. Yeah. Yeah. Like, reaching the point in fidelity in, like, how everything moves in the animation, in, like, all the pieces moving where, yeah, I mean, prior to that, it's like, yeah, it's pretty good, I guess. Right.

So it's kind of like a bunch of systems. You see all the cracks way more than other people see the cracks. I think we're pretty happy and we should be pretty happy with it where it's that kind of me so So it no longer feels like just a bunch of systems you've put together It's actually starting to feel like Sort of a complete thing

Yeah like a whole Polished thing It's looking and feeling and playing Lego games It's really enjoyable Probably playtesting it too much I don't know I don't see that as an issue

but fun so we need to go through the whole play testing online with everything which you know we had the online system working in its very loose prototype

at stage at the beginning of the year local of the new version it was the first thing that went in like the very rudimentary lobby system phones and then the continuation testing that at Avcon this year but in the past couple of months since Avcon we've revamped and like completely rebuilt a few of the systems

they're feeling a lot more enjoyable but we just need to make sure that the online replication is working which is the funnest thing I don't know actually network programming is less heinous than ui programming yeah okay okay why do you say that i feel like with ui programming you can you know make changes ui programming is like replacing one problem with like a slightly different maybe lesser problem until you can just ignore most of the problems whereas with network coding like it eventually works

like your troubleshooting goes somewhere sort of thing I don't know if this is specifically an Unreal Engine thing but it's yeah I'm also not a train UI person so that might be one of the first people were

were publishers to give us money we would hire to fill out yeah yeah when I was when I was playing the game like every time I play a game

like at Avcon or any other con it's usually pretty clear for like smaller teams what people are very specialised on because I look at the game like wow these animations are really good. And then

it's like the UI, it's a UI. It works. Yeah. Funny story about that. We had I don't know who it was. Lovely man. Came up to how to chat with me at

Avcon while these kids were playing. I was like, yeah, yeah, it's looking good. I mean, you know, the UI's all right. oh you're lucky that you're right and we just budged that together so um it might have been one of the things we're putting off it's looking good now it's looking good now it's just a it's just painful and that's to like plug into so many other systems and right it's all

little components that you have to make sure are made properly um the other thing but doing things as properly as possible. It may not look like it, I know. And so, when you get to the stage of like, I'm not really trained to do this, but I suppose I better make it properly. It could be a bit tedious. Right. You're not dealing with game jam code you're thrown together in 48 hours. It just needs to hold itself together long enough.

Oh no, we cleaned that out of the project like two... complete project refreshes ago. Uh-huh. I think we're on our third. Yeah, we're on the third iteration. And this one's pretty good. Pretty good. Pretty good.

Mookie wouldn't be happy. He'd be pretty happy. He's the judge of naming conventions and everything. We've done pretty, pretty good. You're a lot better than you were. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So when... when you're approaching

putting networking into a game like this like I'm networking is an area that I've not touched with any of the game development stuff I've done in the past so where do you even begin sort of approaching that problem? So in a past life

I did Cisco at a I think I was in high school actually and I like computers and networking and stuff so that side of things in terms of understanding just how like the internet and the protocols work is pretty easy in terms of programming it is a it's a pain in the ass to learn at least

just because nobody knows what they're talking about and once you find I found like I think it's there's one British dude who just has these beautiful, I think they're two 45-minute sort of lecture presentations. It's like, this is how networking and replication actually works in Unreal Engine. And you watch that, and then it just, you know,

makes a lot more sense, I will admit. I don't know, it's a problem largely just because there's so many different versions of things. In fact, I have a very funny image that, actually, no, you can just go look at what Face Punch's Steam API GitHub is called, and it might give you an idea. of these are professional people these are the people who have probably been working with Steam API the longest

so Facebook make Gary's mod and Rust for those who are clear Another fucking C-shelf Steamworks implementation yelp This is their

legitimate GitHub so yeah the problem is you just have to like line up all your cogs in a proper order and then actually give

shit about that order as you program things through the project especially when you're doing P to B stuff because like so we're like in terms of the functionality of the engine like we could probably I don't know why would ship a dedicated server

but we could do one but we'll be using four-player p to b so it's just a matter of you know keeping track of who's in charge and who you're sending information to but watch those videos i know i didn't i didn't tell you where they were but that's your you can you can sort through the sort through the crap it is it's heinous like i don't know how many hours i would have spent looking for things and just being like this isn't right why is this person so confidently telling me to do this. Yeah.

Is it a matter of the approach they have being wrong, or just suboptimal? I don't know. I think it's just like Unreal's documentation is getting better, we'll say. and in the process of regurgitating people's regurgitations of it, it is pretty substandard by the time it reaches Reddit comments, we'll say. Ah. I see. Right. That seems like a very nice way to put it.

A very nice way to put it. Um, it's, yeah, it's getting better. Hmm. Yep. Yep. Right, you can be one of the crackpots putting a video out soon. Yeah, yeah, no, don't worry. I have opinions.

Uh, you know, it's, um, like, the, the, the problem, realistic, like, talking seriously. The problem is that, uh, the information for these systems gets documented at some point, and it's correct at that point and then you know the engine version will change or like how steam works will change or you know fundamentally things will change in the internet and then what people have said is no longer true but that like that will still get show up in you know the people discussing the solutions to these problems right and yeah you know it's not too bad you just have to be like really version specific with what you're the problems you have

sure sure you have to enjoy troubleshooting I think if we're going to just do anything program related you have to enjoy

troubleshooting if you don't know what you're doing I don't know what you're doing I mean you're not a mix as a programmer

but a lot of troubleshooting I think it's just in the field of doing this weird tech art

software stuff how can I make a thing work where I don't know how to make it work. That is the biggest question of like what we do. Okay, we have this

much time and this much knowledge. How can we make these systems work? Right. And it is like, yeah, so often just like, I had no idea I could do this, but it's not creating errors

and it's doing what we want it to. Like, okay, see if we can apply it to other systems and get that to, like, continue through our pipeline as well. And more often than not, it's like, wow, I had no idea that I could do this little function and have that just branch out and do everything. As long as it can talk to Darcy's coding, then it's sweet. But it is a day-to-day problem solving, everything.

I don't know what ends up feeling worse. Something working when I don't know why or it is not like it. I don't know why. I feel like it working, I don't know why is more of a problem. I'm very concerned with touching anything at that point. Yeah, this is, so that's just touching back on it. That's why I'm suspicious of UI programming because, like, yeah, it works. Why didn't it work beforehand?

Why does it work now? Oh. so yeah yeah yeah but like that's that's why i at least love working in these fields and like doing the stuff like that we do the contract work fast moving contract work that we do we just you know you get a project you have to not bodge properly bodge a bunch of things together for something to work by a certain date. They might not be operating for very long, or it might be

a prototype or a vertical slice or something, and then you, it's done, and then you've learned a bunch of things and you move on to the next one, and then you learn a bunch more things. Oh, yeah. I just realized, on one of my overlays, half this time your names were flipped around,

so. Ah, I see. Yeah, well, that's funny. yeah actually both of them hold up I think that was wrong the entire time on both

yep you know what that's fine whatever I'm I am a professional yeah yeah yeah these

the like recording in a live environment doing stuff like well I checked it beforehand that's where the fun I thought I thought it was right beforehand apparently not

whatever whatever it doesn't matter just yeah please swap us yeah yeah yeah

yeah I'm sure I'm sure they'll go well if I really care I can fix it in post but like yeah yeah yeah even when we're doing live stuff That's the, God, that's a good joke.

Doing live, live work. Yeah, yeah, don't worry about it. We'll fix it after the show. So when it comes to the sort of tower defensey part of the game, like how does that, how does that play in with the action part? Like, you as the player, you're running around slashing things, the towers are... Yep. Are they, like, I, I, I,

assume both parts of these are like a core part to, you know, making sure things, you know, survive. I have tried many, many times to finish the levels without towers. I have tried many times to just finish the levels only using the towers, and that doesn't work either. You need to have the nice combination of both. And it's less... uh kind of set and forget where i find you know a lot of tower defense games you kind of you work your strategy up and then you kind of just let it play through where this is so much

more involved it's like okay i have a brief window of daytime where everything's turned to stone and i can move around and not worry about defending these guys um i'm going to go build this i'm going to go uh you know search for some law notes do whatever but you need to have both um and so that's where a lot of the testing for multiplayer is going to be coming in as well, because, you know, some of the levels, I feel that if you were playing four player, you could absolutely do it without having the towers. Right. So we need to put in systems in play for that so that even with your full squad, like, there needs

to be some level of reliance on it as well. Yeah, because I don't even know. I know that that's been like our two big pillars, like the whole. game, but I'm not sure where, like, it's just always being part of the idea, I guess. They compliment you to look very well. Yeah, it's what we built a lot of the things around. You know, it's where

the idea that you're, we're flipping between these modes between day and night and you're trying to get the players to do different things during their, like, downtime, so daytime, and, like, the, the night and moving them around and getting them to explore levels and stuff

and the yeah towers are just like the most useful way to for us to like leverage leverage of those things that we want yeah we just found the I assume this it probably went like

what have we just slapped tower defence and the original idea I think was a third person Harkandcast game I've been playing a lot of Dark Souls and we wanted

to you know combine specifically I am I was a Dota enthusiast and

the rest of the third person is actually enthusiast I'm clean check my steam last game like

2020 or something Oh, that's good, that's good, yeah. What about it against bots? This interview is over. So, yeah, and I think, like, the, you know, towers were a way that we could bring the top-down. RTS computer gaming into this, like, action hack and slashy system. And like, when it comes to a hack and slash game, I think, like, the most important thing of all is,

yes, how, like, killing the enemies feels, but also how just the attacks themselves feel. If I recall correctly from Avcon, at the time, I don't think combos were working. I think you said maybe you had removed them because something broke, or? we had changed how we were going to implement them. Ah. And Muki has been cooking. Yeah, they were not in the... We turned that whole system off when we switched to hard two-player,

which is what we took to... I've got... Yeah, yeah, I was there and you were there. just because we at that point I can't remember at the stage at the expo did we I remember I remember

so much has happened this year we're essentially I'm fairly sure we were just wanted to test the basics of having two players and combat in just, yeah, to make sure we had that feeling right. Right.

Oh, okay, sorry, Discord. Give me one second. Easy, I'm going to grab it very quickly. Okay, we're back, yes? Reconnected. There's this weird thing where Discord will disconnect from my side, but keep me in the call. Interesting.

Yeah, I don't know. internet anyway do you want to keep going while he's gone or do you want to just take a quick pause

okay well ignore what I said then it's fine are you heading two packs this year just by the bike uh no

I don't have plans to do uh we'll have to get a demo to you regardless um So we're planning on having a demo release around the same time.

It's either going to be the week before or the week after. We are still in discussions of what's best for the marketing plan. Regardless, it will be part of. Yeah. So I'm very keen to get people who have actually played at previous conventions, playing with new combat systems and new levels, and just see the, like, oh, it's not a tiny amount of change.

It's like, this is completely different. Okay, because I saw the game and, like, visually, it grabbed my attention. I thought the idea was really cool. And then the combat at the time, like, not having the combo system there, I was like, something is clearly missing here. Everything else works so well. I don't know how there could be such a big oversight with something this core to the game?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, we wanted to make sure the, because like the combo system sits on top of things, sort of, in how it works. We just wanted to make sure that we had the bones of everything for the, like, and the version we took to that was the, like, the online multiplayer version for that working, working rights. And now that everything is, yeah, things are cooking.

It's the Steam Scream Fest, I believe. It's either that one next fest. I, we're not, no, we're not doing next fest next year at an undisclosed. That's right. Time pertaining to when the game is released. But we will have a demo for Steam Scream Fest, which I think is the end. of well Halloween yeah yeah yeah I think it'll probably be out before it'll probably be up before then um so hit it hits up on you know what do we have discord yeah yeah

discord yeah look at our steam page um yeah go check the page at a wish list gonna help us out more than in there please am i logged in it does yeah we're logged i think we're I think we're doing okay. I don't know. I have no context. There's so much time working on other people's games. Right, right. Yeah, yeah.

I don't know. I don't know. I just build these things. I don't know how it work. I think getting a demo out there and letting people see what the game's actually like. Because obviously you can take it to cons and all that and you get like con opinions,

but having a demo out there that people outside of that can try. I think And I think Yeah Like that No Sorry about that Like

With all the stuff together And it's not just being like You testing one specific thing like Multiplayer or Combat or whatever But like having all of that together I think Like that's going to really show What people actually think of the game Absolutely

Yeah And it's um Just something we've been meaning to To do Um Because, like, we originally did think this was, we were going to put this in early access. But due to a bunch of reasons, we, like, probably, probably won't. And what we still want to do, though, is, you know, do demo watches and have people play a slice of, like, what the actual thing will be.

just to you know it's pretty cool just a couple levels hard lock to two player online multiplayer and so you know

if we can get one person playing and enjoying it hopefully they're going to recommend it to their friends and then they can play it together and see how that difference is and then you know if that can kind of continue if that next player goes

oh I think you'd really like this game just the word of mouth is still very very strong like half the games I play these days are because of recommendations from people in the office it's the you should really play Clare Obscure and then absolutely that's my game of the year

have you finished all of it everything apart from Simon I beat Simon but it involved a bit of stend hole cheesing yeah I did not have the time to go through, just make an absolutely broken build. Yeah. Very enjoyable.

Well, I did it post the Nerf because you could one-shot Simon pre-Nurf. I did not know that there was a Nerf. Yeah, Stendhal, the devs like, we want you to be overpowered, but Stendhal doing 8 billion damage is probably a bit much.

Yep. Yep. Especially when Simon has like 60 million health. Like, that's probably a little excessive. I feel like you could revert back to the original if you don't have the internet and you have a physical coffee. Oh yeah, no, if you go to 1.0 build, yeah. Now, you could still, you could still one shot, Simon, you just had to put a little bit of effort into it. Yeah.

It was just too easy to deal before. Nah. It was just such a nice revamp of such a, like, good combat system already and like honestly the last kind of a turn-based game like that I played was

OG Final Fantasy 7 on my PS1 and remember being extremely frustrated oh, Darcy will last your camera. Yeah he went blue for a second there so I think he might be gone that's computer crashing again

what is going on with your systems no it's fine I um you good there much it's funny you mention FF7 because I I have actually just playing through that for the first time as of a couple of weeks ago

I'd never played it before the like the original yeah yeah oh classical yeah yeah yeah playing the steam release of it but yeah it's very fun I love it

I really don't. I understand now. I understand why people love the game. Yeah. Yeah. It sucked playing it as a kid without a memory cut. I'll tell you that. Oh, that's Jesus. How did you do that? Yeah, geez. That's why it was a really hard game. Yeah. I was going to say,

How many times did you almost almost finish it until someone turned the PlayStation up? That's rough. So for Blood Vow, what do you consider to be the inspirations for the game? I always like to hear the really obvious ones.

Anyone who looks at the game, you're going to be able to see inspiration straight away. But if there's any weird, obscure ones as well, I would love to hear those as well as the other ones. I'm not so sure about weird, obscure ones, but I've always loved dark fantasy aesthetics. I love, you know, blood-borne, dark souls, all that.

We can't see it, Darcy. Diablo, too, for any of the audio listeners. Oh, yeah, Diablo. It's only a lot of destruction expansion set. I don't know what happened. I had to buy that thing like three times. because people kept stealing way. CD key.

Right, I'll come steal it. Oh, yeah, I remember. What other inspirations? I don't know. It's just like bits and pieces from loads of different games, but honestly, probably one of the biggest ones was Helldivers too. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. That brought four-player co-op. back into our lives in a big way and lots of because you know you might think what does hell divers have to do with

like a top down hack and slash Tadapass game hmm yeah yeah

it's a we didn't it might even be on the holy whiteboard what did heck divers do looking at it now I can't be heck drivers but

yeah yeah it's a because like the the way that you play with your friends is a big part of why that game works

and that was something that we thought like because you know we've got visual influences from like

D&D games like, you know, digital D&D games and, like, gabblos and, like, mechanics that are from sort of RTS and mobile likes and that sort of thing, and mechanics that are from the Dark Souls, down to, like, proper hack and slash, you know, like old school PlayStation 2,

hack and slash era, god of war sort of territories. And that's, like, the obvious ones, but yeah, I suppose the weirdest one is that, like, And, I mean, you know, looking back, we often thought, like, right, why does this work in hell divers? And what was similar in Leffoded, that also worked? Because, like, the four-player co-op era is separated by the golf of, I don't know, there might have been a few, but, yeah, that's sort of, why is this fun to play with your friends? sort of influences. So stuff that might not be actual game mechanic systems

or, you know, it might involve them. And it's not like stylistic influences or anything, but they're like, oh, because like this, this little story that goes through it, that it's interesting to find out about this, like, in the hell I was scared, like this parody universe of, you know, that's fun.

It's like, you know, we're the bad guys, but how are we the bad guys? So, like, and I don't know if that's been in any of the public release of tests and stuff, but yeah, there is a plot to Blood Vow and you will be able to find out things about these things, but how you experience it might be a bit different to other games, especially since, like, we don't have budget for voice actors and stories and stuff. so we're doing it

maybe in the sequel maybe in the sequel I think we are starting to see a like a sort of resurgence of four player co-op games in the like affectionately named friend slop games

you know games like like peak like a repo things like that yeah yeah undeserved um

peaks just a a very well-done game loop and game system just attached to a, like, four-player system. Yeah, and it's good. I think people, like, you know, COVID happened, and people played games with their friends on the internet again a bit. And it was like, hey, this is pretty fun. Hmm. I like having fun with my friends. Do you guys remember fun?

so it's a yeah it's a nice return to that yeah and the nice thing about these

co-op games is you don't I think the problem you have a lot of other games is people try to

hyper optimize everything and you have this issue where gamers will try to

optimize the fun out of a game oh yeah shit yeah like I'm a I play a little

path of exile and yeah yeah yeah one of the few games where you can make a two-hour video

on a spreadsheet and people will watch it that and Eve yeah yeah yeah yeah no and like I don't know that's the so like

the big part we take away from that is we're not gonna do at least for this and for the foreseeable future at least but we don't we like playing PVP games

we're not going to make PVP games right um like you have to do so much work a very careful game balance stuff to make those work properly

or it's just going to turn into the same cesspool that it always I think I think the main issue with any of these games isn't the fact that they're not balanced it's when the game when you have one sort of balance right

like if every single patch some new thing becomes overpowered and there's like you know three different viable overpowered things than every couple of months it changes patching Dota 101 yeah that or league or any of these like Marvel rivals it's all the exact same

where every patch cycle there's just some new overpowered thing and I think that is a much more achievable goal than trying to make a roster of 30 characters balanced yeah yeah exactly that I think that's a good system and that's how they should work it's just that like I don't know I love playing PVP games right there's a reason that I have 5,000 hours in Dota than I don't play it anymore and I'm quite happy playing shorter games locked in room with mad people but yeah the the the I I think it would take away the fun of making balancing and building game systems that we have, at least, if they were PVP.

I don't know why that is. I just like, yeah, it's just a lot harder, I think, to build those sorts of games. So, you know, we have no... Not achievable with... We can't afford to do it for one thing. especially not in Australia like

right like you know we couldn't have any sort of online communication system that sort of stuff because suddenly you have to care about like moderation

player interactions all of that stuff and when you're building PVP games that's communication becomes so much and more important right right right it's easier just to let people

play against against enemies you know then there might be more longevity in this for this sort of game we're making than for like whatever the equivalent would be hack and slash boba i know they tried that it didn't work a couple of times i don't think there's anything like wrong with going and making a pvp game but like i i think if you were going to do so you would have to sort of approach it with some, like, weird, unique idea. Like, I think of Majorina, right?

Yeah. Like, that's... Majorina is such a... Yeah, it's like a unique PVP... A fair on who knows doesn't know. Basically, you just... You run around. It's one of these proximity chat games,

but you use your spells by saying the name of the spell. And the problem is it's... I don't think it's intentional. I think it's just not great voice analysis. The spells just don't work half the time. Which adds to the fun as well. And just like... Worst analysis is hard.

Yeah, yeah. And I think a game like that, like, because it is such a unique kind of game, there's actually another game that just came out that is basically the same idea. They were obviously developed alongside each other with no idea the other project even existed. Yeah, yep, yep.

Which is so weird that two people are the exact same idea like this. But like... Sorry? And Bug's Life. Oh, yeah, yeah. Right, that's a really good point, actually. Yeah. Well, I think games like that are like super fun

where someone's just, they had an idea and they're like, okay, what if I just make a game like this? Like, is it going to work? Yeah, yeah. I don't know if it's going to work, but let's just do it. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the...

Yeah. I think that's the fun of indie games. Like, you can just take some... Probably the fun, like... Yeah, yeah, just find a mechanic and try and get a good game loop out of it. And it was like how many games came out of Gary's mod? Like, it's kind of the exact same thing. Custom games for WalkRour 3 and stuff?

Even to a lesser extent, all the custom games in Overwatch, I absolutely love all the stuff that's great. There's some fun ideas in there. Given how limited that system is, there's some really cool, cool little things you can do. We've stolen things from there. Borrowed. When you do art, it's called borrowing.

Sure it is. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I think the, yeah, the things that I have, the issues I have with, the PVP games are my issues

but the I am personally a I typically avoid PVP nowadays I played a lot as a kid I'm very toxic PVP player I look it's bad enough

when I play like a Soulslight game I don't need to do PVP anymore I'm good yeah yeah yeah it's just we're we're in Mukie a happy 30 year olds making PV games

for our friends late 20s come on late 20s sorry and that like comes into the a surprising amount

of how the game web building works like it has short rounds for instance because sometimes you can't sit there

online for an hour or whatever yeah yeah so that's yeah I think short rounds it just generally feels

it feels better when something goes wrong right like if if you have a bad round and you lose you know 10 minutes that feels a lot better than like you know some some um rogue like games they'll have like 40 50 minute runs to do the entire run

and it's like if you get a bad roll like 30 minutes into that that feels kind of bad oh yeah that's why like I mean I suppose that's been around forever as a like FTL enjoyer but I think the way that the games like FTL that do have those longer run times where you can just lose is that playing it again is just it's just fun to start again and see what happens this time something yeah So, yeah, with the, even with the short runtime, the short level time.

So I think in terms of actual specifics, we're looking at 15 run-up levels and just correct me if I'm wrong on this round there, ballpark, plus, minus, something. I think maximum of about half hour. Sorry, you dropped back during that, I think. Oh, yeah, the ideal is between 15 and max of a bit. half hour like we cool yeah we want to have some of them being shorter and we want some of them being longer but yeah it is the we don't want to spend an entire hour and then walk away defeated yep the I again game you might not think would influence it I know Hell Divers helped us make that decision because some of

those are they forty four minutes yeah some of those some of those feel too long and that's the sort of thing we want to avoid. But also, like, it's hard, not too short, not too long, it still has to be a, yeah, I don't know. And this comes down to level design, which I suppose we have really talked about and don't have a lot to show, but just trust us, bro, it's going to be interesting. what I might do quickly just before we like I don't know how long we have but

I know that you're busy after about 830 aren't you yeah I need to get going fairly soon so I'm going to just if you just want to keep going with the tours we can do that otherwise I'm not of us maybe just to go through like some of the

game edge and stuff I am allowed to just, like, start screen sharing things from the game engine, right? If you feel like it, if you're allowed to? Do you want to do a quick push for you? I don't know if I can get in it. I don't have a controller. If you don't have control of, then no, what? The, you will be able to play a mouse and keyboard.

The mouse and keyboard, current controls are set up. for me to be able to program easily not for you to be able to play the game easily i see i see which is by the word for you she said um but the if i just like go live okay so this is our old people have seen is park no i've gone people have seen this is not the menu. This will change. This is going soon. What we have been working on is this. So none of this is finished yet. We will have an environment, the actual character. But we're doing a lot of the like, so, you know, the classic four player in the lobby system, where and I'm good I'm not logged into steam um so you know steam integration uh you have your

your option systems uh your player abilities uh sorry your tower abilities your tower side grades your player abilities your player ability side grades um um look one of you people can see the uh level names for the demo. They are creatively yeah. So this is what we've been playing with and a lot of that is you know

scalable, scalable building. This is the all of the stuff we're building for that I'll go into the actual the finished product. Right, right. So yeah, testing players joining

lobbies, the Steam names, getting displayed correctly, storing people's Steam lists, making sure that inviting people through Steam and through the game work correctly, making sure that you can join existing lobbies, that sort of thing. We're chipping away that, I reckon we're like, nearly done. Yeah, pretty close. Nearly done? So, yeah, and, like, that's a lot of the big hurdle. The stuff that may not be playing the fun hacky-slashy action tower defensive game,

but what you use to, the stairs that you go up to get into the happy fun zone. Right, right, right, right. It's all nearly done. Yep. Yep, UI programming. It sounds like this really is just the main of your, existence, just UI programming? Not far off.

If things have to work properly in it, then yeah, it's a pain in the ass, because it's like, you know, it's interacting with Steam, it's interacting with our, like, game instance that's always running, it's interacting with, like, our network systems, our character systems, it's affecting, like, what animations the characters will have when they learn into the level. so you have to like in building the lobby you build the rest of the

damn owl and we've already sort of we drew the owl so yeah that's what we're tying together the thing that that lets you control all the parts of

drawing the damn owl and yeah hopefully it's well it was meant to be I wanted it done by Friday but we can push that the next week of that.

Which leaves us, what, five weeks to four or five? Five, five weeks. We're going to be at Pax. It's going to be finished. Yep.

It's going to be playable. Yep. I hope so. It better be playable at Pax. It's not a waste of a con. We've got six weeks from now. Oh, six weeks. Yeah, we're sorted.

We're sorted. Just don't make you media changes the night before. Oh, the, um... They're crucial. Crucial changes. We've got to change a bunch of colors for no reason. Maybe some fonts, like move stuff around to sort of enhance the player experience.

So early, you talk... Oh, yes? I am very sorry. I need to get going. Yeah. Okay, okay. I'll have the last couple of minutes of questions if there are any... I don't know.

We can just keep going. If you're still good to keep going, Darcy, we can just keep going with you. That works, unless you do. I do this stuff at night, but I can probably do, how long, would you have, like, enough for debriefing questions, books,

or five minutes? Yeah, I can give, like, another five minutes. Yeah, do you want to do that, too? I just want to, like, try and put it nice, whatever the last hour and a half of rambling has been sure yeah we can do that um so one thing I did kind of want to touch more on from earlier

you talked about how you're very like systems focused so the way it sounds like to me is you've kind of sort of focused on building out these ideas first and then expand the game out afterwards, after you've got everything sort of working together well, as opposed to building the game out and then just adding incremental things,

incremental, like, core ideas onto it from there. Absolutely. Like, getting the foundations of all the programming and systems was crucial to the development of everything. That's all Darcy. like without his system to play wouldn't be able to get my bits and pieces like functioning really

and that was one of the biggest example for this sorry keep talking I'm just going to show things it's just that like very very early on after Avcon last year we actually stopped production and had full team meeting and this is why we can keep going on about the Holy Whiteboard because that's where we wrote how everything's going to

work in terms of how enemies work, how the character works, how the progression, the levels, like all of these different systems. And we've done, I think we've done an exceptional job of not straying away from that. It's like, this is what we're making. This is, you know, this is how we're going to do it. And that was like a six hour long meeting or something in itself. It was so important. And, you know, it has been one of the best things that I think any indie team should really do. It's like, okay, what are our core pillars? How are we going to get that? And just being really, really clear across the board and across the team of like, we're doing this, we're doing this, we're doing this. Yeah. And just to support that,

Like, I think, I've just been, like, clicking through all about classes and stuff, I couldn't do. I think all, nearly, except for the UI, nearly all of this has been, even if these weren't really doing anything, all of this has been in since we rebuilt the project. um so i'm talking like you know we had our all of our controllers and states and game modes uh for each part of the experience so like being in the main menu being in the lobby being in game online or being in like game uh single player um like ready to go all of the bits made and then you know we knew that we were going to be building these systems in these little sort of compartmentalized way that all interacted with each other and then you don't wind up adding a bunch of crap while you're you know making making the game you're um

it's all just there ready to go so like you know, you know what all the, you know, parts of the house that you're building are. Because even if they're empty, if they're there and your, like, classes are there and ready to go, once they're filled and in the shape of a game, then it's a game. And you haven't had to bolt on any extraneous crap to make it work or anything, that sort of thing. It's like, yeah. I don't know, that's a... well it sounds like that you're both very excited about the game and have high hopes for it

and i hope packs goes well i hope you get a demo out there let me know when that comes out i'll be definitely want to try it out and um yeah hopefully hopefully you know you said 2026 we'll see how that goes oh no it's coming out it's coming out 2026 um okay we we may be like you know pretty not disorganized or unprofessional in a lot of other areas but a

Deadlight strict like we wanted to make a fun game with our mates and it's nearly done and it's coming out next year because I don't know

maybe we want to make another game or like work on something else yeah yeah all right you need to to run so I guess we can sign off

here no thank you very much for having us absolute pleasure yeah we um we really look forward to like just having a chance to chat with people about these sorts of it's sort of

behind the scenes-y kind of things with game dev just because it's fun for us to talk to people that enjoy these things about these things And it's not that finding people to talk to about, you know, if video game programming is hard.

So, Steampage, Blood Vowel, Survive the Night. You guys don't have... Have a suss? Sorry? Wishlisted. Yep, wishlisted. Do you guys have any social media people can follow? We do have the blood vows.

Survive the Night Discord community as well so there's updates pretty much every week and we have the we do have Instagram I'm just checking what it's called I think blood underscore vow

did we get blood underscore vowed yeah that one actually is on the theme page yeah it is indeed well done ants we love you yeah so much love

I think that's it in terms of social media at the moment but I would marketing people no I'm not a social media person

yeah yeah yeah but you know I'm looking at LinkedIn and following programming I think so and like doing animations and stuff so the game will be cool our social media

presence so nothing else you need to direct people to is that basically everything that's it just get up to steam and add it to the wish please hell so much um okay my main channel is brodie opposite i do tech and linux videos there six-ish days a week sometimes i stream i've got the gaming channel brodie on games i will probably be oh silk song song's out next week so we're playing that um uh i've never heard of that yeah never never never heard of what's the silk song um also uh we play more yakuza six and if you're watching the video

version dishmine the audio version on every podcast platform that is tech over t uh if you go to youtube it is tech of a tea as well i have some trashy game jam code to go smash out so uh i'm to go do that after this. Wicked. That's the best code. That's the funest code. Oh, it's a mess. I'll give you the guys the final word. How do you want to sign us off? Um, I don't know.

Where would you do that? Check out our game when it comes out. It'll be pretty cool. Or the demo when that's a thing. Oh yeah, demo. Yeah, yeah. Steam a scream fest. I think. Yeah, we should hire. I mean, you can remember things better than we can. yeah thanks for having us

absolutely pleasure thank you very much