Tech Over Tea - Gentoo Linux Should Be On Every Computer | Immoloism

Episode Date: April 12, 2023

Gentoo Linux is a really interesting project but what if you took being a Gentoo fan to it's logical extreme and started installing Gentoo on random systems. ==========Guest Links========== Immolo YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@immoloism Immolo Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/immoloism ==========Support The Show========== ► Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/brodierobertson ► Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/BrodieRobertsonVideo ► Amazon USA: https://amzn.to/3d5gykF ► Other Methods: https://cointr.ee/brodierobertson =========Video Platforms========== 🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBq5p-xOla8xhnrbhu8AIAg =========Audio Release========= 🎵 RSS: https://anchor.fm/s/149fd51c/podcast/rss 🎵 Apple Podcast:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tech-over-tea/id1501727953 🎵 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3IfFpfzlLo7OPsEnl4gbdM 🎵 Google Podcast: https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy8xNDlmZDUxYy9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw== 🎵 Anchor: https://anchor.fm/tech-over-tea ==========Social Media========== 🎤 Discord:https://discord.gg/PkMRVn9 🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/TechOverTeaShow 📷 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/techovertea/ 🌐 Mastodon:https://mastodon.social/web/accounts/1093345 ==========Credits========== 🎨 Channel Art: All my art has was created by Supercozman https://twitter.com/Supercozman https://www.instagram.com/supercozman_draws/ DISCLOSURE: Wherever possible I use referral links, which means if you click one of the links in this video or description and make a purchase we may receive a small commission or other compensation.

Good morning, good day, and good evening. Welcome back to the show. Today I have a a really interesting guest who I I don't understand why he does what he does Um, but I guess that's why he's here today. Welcome to the show Imolo. Why don't you just um Give a brief introduction explain what you do and then we can get into the details of it. Hi, thanks for having me on. So, I'm Imelo, and I like to install Gentoo on random devices. Probably the most craziest one I'm known for is the PlayStation 2.

Mainly just to see if it's possible to do it. Some of the other crazy ones I've as a nintendo wii xbox 360 i forgot um the penny and free builds quite a famous one as well had a 38 day a 38 day build of rust going on that one which which was quite interesting 38 days 38 days many people that's not the worst compile though the worst one was uh on the playstation 2 which i think you came on stream yeah that was that was back when i was doing my uh my lfs stream i uh yeah that's when i found your channel um i i don't understand i i simply don't understand why i think that's the most important question besides just you know you know you can check if it works by just searching on the internet like that's that's an easy enough thing to do but why why are you doing this the challenge really so obviously it started off that i found a

project that someone made a uh 5.4 linux kernel um over i think it's uh frno7 uh ps2 if you search for that you'll find the github page and i thought i wonder if i can get gen 2 to run on that obviously i started with that just to learn because obviously I just like learning new things. And that kind of spiraled into fixing some bugs on Gen 2, so MIPS works better. But the worst part when you joined was I needed to get a live CD out, so I was about to stay away from work for a couple of weeks. Couldn't get a cross-compiler working, so I thought,

screw it, let's just compile on the console streamed it and then uh managed to get a record number of views watching one line move every i think about every hour yeah for people that don't know though uh the hcp the normally compiles in five seconds took 10 hours on the playstation 2 wait wait so are you compiling like everything when you're doing gen 2 you're not using any binaries or are there some binaries involved there because i know there are binaries in the gen 2 repos yeah i on on my main system obviously use bin's not crazy all the time. But on the PlayStation 2, I usually use something like QEMU. You can emulate, obviously, different architectures on that

to do the cross-compiling or cross-dev and then just transfer the files over. Ah, yep, yep, yep. But for this one time, I just couldn't get it to work, so I just SSH'd in and did it. On the plus side, though, we got to see how stable the kernel was, and it's a pretty damn stable kernel, I we got to see how stable the kernel was. And it's a pretty damn stable kernel, I've got to admit, on that sort of hardware.

Because we've only got 22 megabytes of RAM available. Yup, yup. And the root device is only USB 1.1, so that's 11 megabits per second. You can imagine how fast that swap was going. Oh, that sounds rough as hell how many parts was the PS2 one what is it it's about 26 most of them though

it's just me trying to learn how to get init ram fs to work because I've never done it before if you find the one where I actually get it which I think is around 24 25 you can hear me pop off quite a lot uh because it might say most of it is just me trying something and then it not working it was absolutely

awful but the actual compiling on the ps2 that was easy like you know you know it's like when you've got to learn something new it's always always hard. Mm-mm-mm. I think a lot of people actually forgot there was a... There was actually, like, an official, like, Linux distribution for the PS2. So, like, installing Linux on a PS2 isn't actually... Like, obviously compiling everything is ridiculous and takes an insane amount of time. But the idea of having Linux on a PS2 isn't, in and of itself that insane um yeah no you are right i mean uh back in the day around i think it was around about 2004 there was a sort of semi-official gen 2 project for um the official um ps2 linux pack it was out one of the devs i think it was

kuma i'm not pronouncing his name wrong he actually had one built ready to go on there and actually it was his project that got me down this weird hobby of installing gen 2 on random things because obviously even even when i was a you know young child i you know actually i suppose i was 18 i was installing on weird things back then oh so there's a history to this it's not just oh there's definitely history i mean yeah i mean that the ps2 is my famous one but there's a history to this. It's not just... Oh, there's definitely history. I mean, yeah, I mean, the PS2 is my famous one, but there's a lot more worse than that out there, really. I mean, I don't know if you've seen

the project of me getting modded in Gen 2 running on a 2.6 kernel, just for the fun. I haven't seen it, but I see it's in your VODs on YouTube. Yeah. That one's more entertaining. I think that's my personal, uh,

challenge build. That was obviously I've had to learn how to patch kernel headers and stuff like that to get things to work. But that one was quite exciting. So how long have you sort of been involved in Linux? Like, have you, you know, are you one of those people who when they first started using a computer, it was

with Linux, or was there at some point you were actually sane? I don't think I was ever sane, but I think I got my first computer around 97, and I switched to Linux in 2001. Oh, wow.

I've been using it ever since then. First distribution being Red Hat 9, I believe. Back when we had dial-up, took me, I think it was a week, no, nine days, sorry, to download the CDs, to get that installed. Only to find out that my ISP didn't work in Linux,

which was absolutely brilliant. Oh, right. That was a thing at one point, wasn't it? Yeah, it was terrible. That's when I learned all about WinModems. Mm-hmm. But that wasn't my first ever time in Linux, though. That was the more interesting story. I remember

once I bought a PC gaming magazine and I had a second free disc in it and obviously I was only, I think I was about 16 at the time, something like that, maybe a little bit younger, naive child still. Left the CD in wondering why it wasn't working in Windows, rebooted the computer. When I rebooted, obviously it booted straight in and I was like, oh, what's this? Inquisitive child that I am, I decided to install it on the family PC that cost a few thousand pounds at the time. My

father wasn't very best impressed with me. But that was probably the thing that got me down a path of an IT career. I obviously learned how to fix computers from that. But it does always make me laugh that everyone says linux was hard to install back there and there's me just pressing some random buttons ending up with a terminal to my surrounding i i think the the argument is from a lot of people who didn't use it back then i recently did a video um it hasn't gone up yet but a video about something involved in Red Hat 5.1. And the installer is basically just a regular Cursors installer. Like, there's nothing difficult about it.

You just press next and it just works. Sure, maybe you have issues post-install, maybe hardware support, things like that. But the actual install process was no more difficult than just installing ubuntu now no that is definitely true if you sit in the um n commander one with debian 2 uh i don't know what you're on about the so uh obviously you've heard the famous quote about um linus saying about um he didn't like uh debian because it was so hard to install right so that's why he uses red hat um i never understood this quote until i watched the end commander video of of him he's basically he is a um a db debian and ubuntu uh maintainer and he installed it at one of the

original ones and even he couldn't do it and so wow if this guy can't install an old old debian install no wonder linus couldn't do it he's not a desktop person to do that sort of thing it was a real eye-opener definitely a good watch about an hour long but you'll watch the whole thing through i know those it actually does make sense that it was hard to install because that's part of the reason why like ubuntu hit the scene ubuntu was supposed to take debian and just make it you know more user-friendly and it makes sense that there was issues on the installation side as well i just i i've looked at the installer for the original ubuntu um woody warthog but i hadn't looked at debian yet so maybe i'll have to go and

see what that's like and yeah definitely take a look at that. I don't think I'm going to get it installed, but I want to at least see what it's like. Trust me, I wouldn't get it installed. You wouldn't feel any bad about yourself if you can't do it. It looks hard. But yeah, I mean, Linux to install has been easy. I mean, I remember in 2001, I just knew basic partition stuff, and I could get it installed.

So I did, what did I use? Red Hat, Mandrake, OpenSUSE. It was all easy. It was just whatever the graphical installer was. It was only things like Gentoo that was a little bit hard because you had to follow a wiki page to install it. Yeah, but not everything is gen 2 not everything is no no no those things are like you know like i think those distros sort of stand out

as these like weird distros that you know you can make them like does gen 2 have any sort of automated installer because arch has one now um yeah i, we used to have one back in the day, a graphical installer. And obviously there's the scripts, but they make it harder for the user because obviously you've done the install, you know. The handbooks also teaches you how to manage the system as you're doing it.

The handbook is really good. Like, really, really good. Absolutely amazing how much detail goes into it. But some bits are a little bit hard like i don't know how you found the use flag part it's a little bit confusing but once you get further into the you're managing your gentoo system you're like oh so that's what they was explaining to me and it's the only way you can really um you can really do that i think with you can't make it simpler without not giving you the skills to help yourself later on.

I think the only issue I have with the Gentoo handbook is there are some parts where it's a little bit too verbose. There was some bits that I found in here where they were just explaining things that should be pretty obvious if you're approaching something like Gen 2. I don't know what part it was specifically. I can't remember what page it was. But I remember reading it. It was like three paragraphs about this very basic thing. Maybe it was in about the installation, something like that. I don't know.

Either way... Sorry? I was going to say, we have got other I don't know. Either way... Sorry? I was going to say, we have got other parts where we go the other way. We don't even mention you can install... Use a USB to write the image to. It's just CD. But obviously, most of us that use Gen 2 don't go through the handbook. I mean, I can't remember the last time I fired it up, to be fair.

It's burned into my memory at this point. So really, we all love it when people give back information, like feedback, so we can improve it. So if anyone does find it, feel free to go on any, you know, onto the forums or anything like that, Reddit, and just say what you found. We've had lots of changes done. Thoughts on here?

I do remember when I got to that use flag section i i think my chat was helping me with a lot of stuff with that one sort of explaining what the best flags were like not like you know a giant list of them but just basic stuff that wasn't included at the time i don't i don't know what the flags were um but how did you find having a backseat uh installer sorry how did you find having a backseat installer thing about us is uh we love to tell people what we like about forgetting what the person actually wants yeah obviously that's the thing with gentlemen you you got the power to make your system and occasionally we do forget that um what we like isn't what other people like i was just sort of going through it just to see, because, you know, I'd heard that Gen 2 was difficult to install. Like, you know, most people hear that Arch is difficult to install, but they'd never actually done it.

So I wanted to see what that experience was like. And, you know, if it wasn't so well documented, I can understand why it would be difficult. But as it stands, if you just go through what it says, you're pretty much going to be good. Maybe there's things that aren't being done in the most optimal way, but as to getting a working system, yeah, the handbook does everything that it needs to be doing basically as long as you like actually read what it says there were some parts where i just assumed i knew what i was doing

and didn't read and then people were like you're an idiot uh but besides those points um when i actually paid attention yeah it if you i do think that if you haven't installed Linux before, it can be very, very... overwhelming. But if you have an understanding of, you know, the internals of a Linux system, you've messed around... It doesn't have to be like you've, you know, done LFS or something like that. You've used Ubuntu, you've... delved around your system, you understand how things sort of piece together, you'll be fine. Yeah, yeah, definitely.

You're definitely right there. As long as you understand the basics, partitioning, what your CPU is, how much RAM you've got, you'll be fine. And obviously, you know to read. Read it twice. And obviously, that's most of my mistakes.

You just feel comfortable using a command line as well. Yeah, yeah i mean if you're using gen 2 you're in a command line i mean i don't think there's a day where the terminal's not open well you know there are those um gen 2 based distros that you know make things a bit more graphical that you could kind of avoid things at least initially um so you could at least get an installed system before you worry about it but then yeah i guess after that you're probably going to be in a bit more a bit more yeah you're gonna be in a lot more trouble that's the one yeah because that's like the handbooks to teach you how to use it so if you use an install script you've got a system working and then you're what do i do now situation yeah that was one of the concerns that people had

when arch added the arch install because that's just an automated and it was very buggy when it first added oh my god it was so buggy when the first out of that uh i think i was still on arch at the time actually so when i think i did actually use arch for a few years as well oh okay uh we'll get into that in just a bit but i just want to rant about this install script for a moment yeah you're going okay so uh the dev actually was in my comment section and was like okay yeah this is we probably shouldn't have shipped this um when they first added it uh if you entered so you know they'd be like yes or no question things like that if you entered an invalid option the script would crash so no matter how far you were into the installation process if you entered something wrong it would

crash you have to redo everything and i had people in my comments like no you should just enter enter stuff properly it's your fault you went to stuff wrong like no it shouldn't crash it should just be like hey you're stupid enter the right thing uh there's a bunch of other random things like that there are mistakes all over the place but last time i tried arch install it was good i i hear there's issues if you try to do things like secure boot um but like just a regular installed system you should be mostly fine um i have never used it but i have heard lots of good things about it to be fair so yeah nowadays it is good yeah yeah i don't think i've heard anyone actually have a problem with it so it looks like they fixed it so what is your linux journey actually been like so you started on you said red hat nine yeah red hat nine uh then

mandrake i believe eight god you're going back a few years i've done way too much in those years to remember uh what did i use after i think i then switched to gen 2 but that was an interesting one because uh i had a pentium 3 back in 2002 I was still in college at the time so obviously trying to afford a new computer at that time so that's why I kind of switched because obviously back on the x86 days it gave you a bit of a speed boost I think I then

what did I do then I think I went to Ubuntu and then back to then back to Gen 2, just sort of mixed between the two until I finally got a new laptop, which was one of the original

AMD 64 machines. And then I think I just used Ubuntu on it just to play with wobbly windows and stuff like that. So it would have been during the Compiz time then? Yeah, definitely around that sort of time.

That was fun. Yeah, so I kind of switched between most distros. Sort of like between Ubuntu and Gen 2, depending on what's going on in my life. That is a weird set of choices.

Like, just Gen, yeah. a weird uh a weird set of choices like just gen yeah like you you look at it nowadays a lot of people seem to be very you either people who are distro hopping everywhere or you have a lot of people who are just very specific about using you know just the one thing. It's, they're an Arch user, they're an Ubuntu user, they're a Gentoo user. Here you are, it's like, yeah, I swap back and forth between Gentoo and Ubuntu. Which is what's best for the

best tool for the job, don't you? That's fair. It's a tool, not a cult, isn't it? Exactly, yeah. I think a lot of people are a bit, they kind of tie their personality a bit too much to Linux and the distro they use. And rather than just looking at it like, okay, I have a developer machine. It probably doesn't make sense to install Gentoo on a machine that I need for work.

Okay, let's use something like Ubuntu, Populace, things like that. But if it's a system that you're like, it's your messing around system, you're just like hacking on things, yeah, maybe something like Gen 2 does make sense there because if it breaks for a couple of days, it doesn't really matter that much. I'd say obviously back then things in linux weren't as

stable as they are now yeah yeah um so you know things that things would break even unstable nowadays though i just run gen 2 full time on everything including the web server um it doesn't go down it it's pretty stable i mean there's the meme in it that it's as stable as I mean, there's the meme, isn't it, that it's as stable as Debian? Uh-huh. And so, as long as you're not jumping into the testing branch, you're going to be fine on Gentoo if you want to learn. But I suppose nowadays I'm a little bit more insane than I was back as a child. Yeah, you kind of have to be a little bit insane if you're going to set up a channel where you're just installing gen 2 on

things yeah well i actually someone on reddit asked me to because i was installing gen 2 on a pentium free just to see what it was going to be like right um and obviously back in the day it used to take i think it was three days to install the full desktop um with with with web browser and open office at the time it was. That was a Pentium 4, 400 megahertz, 128 megabytes of RAM. Someone gave me a Pentium 3, which was 600 megabytes for the same amount of RAM. It took me a month to rebuild the system alone. So that's like GCC. I used muscle for the Lib C, so that's like gcc yeah um um i use muscle for the lib c so that saves some time but oh my god it is slow so yes we've gone three days to 28 days just because of

the memory usage um right yeah i just left that running on twitch for a few days people used to just come in watch it see how far it got. Don't do it. Just use a faster machine if you're going to do it. It's fine to run it on the system, but don't get the slow machine to build it, please. Don't be like me. So for reference on a modern machine,

how long would it take you to get Gen 2 set up? What, just to boot into a bootable experience or to a full desktop? Let's say you have a full desktop. Full desktop, easily under a day. You know, I'd say six hours if a relatively fast machine. But I'd say, that depends if you've used Gen 2.

Right. If you're doing it under three days as a new user you've done a good job like no matter what the specs are that's still a lot of time when i know it's a lot of time you gotta remember you're learning a lot of new things so i'm probably giving it a disservice by saying it that way but you know you can do it in six hours i mean i've got a laptop building right now that's been running for a couple of hours, and that'll be finished soon, probably by the time this stream finishes. Any particular reason, or just you want to install it on the laptop?

It's my work laptop, so I just wanted to set up a new test machine with Clang and Muscle on it, just for fun. I might get ZFS running. I'm sorry. No, sorry, it just for fun. So what gets said, I'm sorry. No, sorry. It's all good. Uh, there's a delay.

So it's going to, I'm going to try not to cut you off, but, uh, I probably will. Um, so at this stage you run gen two on everything. Yup.

Huh? Okay. That makes sense. But there's a bunch, there's a couple of people in my comment section who are like, I am, I am gen two or die. i'm not like i've actually one of them um i've noticed in your comment section a couple of times uh terry dactylus or something like that oh yeah who on my channel

is usually there to troll me about uh uh video game thing it's usually a giant paragraph video games bad blah blah blah blah blah blah blah all this nonsense and why I should use Gen 2 well he's right on the Gen 2 part but sure but yeah I've lost my train of thought on that one. That just made me laugh, sorry. That's good. What I was going to say is, for someone who's not using Gentoo, show to them why they should use it instead.

What sells Gentoo as an experience for you? you so it's the best thing about gen 2 is the community uh we will help each other um so if you've got a project you want to do like installing gen 2 on a ps2 the whole community will help you live that dream no matter how stupid it is if you want to learn and you want to help yourself we'll give you the tools for the little bits you're stuck on which isn't something that many other distros do i don't think um no i i can definitely say um i i can't say i've yeah i can't say that would happen on something like arch for sure um mate like usually arch just, like, we band together to complain about someone breaking something in the repos. But apart from that, yeah, that's definitely a very different, a different sort of community. Yeah, so we're all there together.

We was all a noob once, so we're all there to hold your hand with you. All we expect from you is to search first, and then we well help you when you can't understand what you found right yeah i think that's a that's an issue a lot of people have where i i've noticed this with pretty much any district but it's obviously more more extreme on the more you know user-friendly districts where it's something really simple and it's very obvious they did absolutely zero research like it's one thing if you don't understand something that's totally fine but when you've done zero research you can type that like whatever their question is directly into a search engine and the answer shows up right away like i i'll get you i'll get you on

that what i've started doing on that is if i'm helping a user is i'll show them the answer and also show them the keywords i've used yeah yeah yeah a lot of us take for granted how easy it is to use something like google.co we you know we know the google foo a lot of people just don't know those skills so if you teach them that you know no amount of fish kind of this thing in it you know i don't think it's a good idea to get angry with those people but i can understand it like i get it yeah i can't say i've never got frustrated at a user for doing it but you know it sometimes you just gotta put yourself back in that mind when you when you were the day one yeah yeah no

that makes sense like you'll definitely see this in... This is sort of why the Arch community has sort of, like, this I guess, aura of being very toxic, because it is... It doesn't have that, like, helpful side that Gen 2 has in that way,

but it is very quick to jump on someone who very clearly didn't do any research. I wonder if it's the straw that broke the camel's back though sometimes. We always see the worst one, don't we? But sometimes we forget there was a thousand before that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think you would do that on like an individual level.

Like if you're speaking to someone personally and they didn't understand something whatsoever, they didn't even bother to do any research, you wouldn't jump on them in that same way. But when it's like a faceless name on an IRC, a faceless name on a forum, like it's a lot easier to just ignore the fact that, yeah, that person is just a person like you

who at one point you had never used this system before and you didn't really know where the documentation was like full stop like you didn't know that things like uh i guess the gentoo handbook's a bad example like you're using arch you installed it with like an install script or something you've never been to the arch wiki before for example yeah i say if you're not coming from uh debian if you ever used it um trying to find information on there is just uh finding a random blog post from 2017 and hoping it still works so i think like anyone who's from that sort of era kind of understands that it can be a frustrating experience.

I've not. I'm sorry, go on. Like I say, if you've used Arch, the best thing about Arch Linux is a centralized documentation. I mean, every distro needs to aim to be as good as that, I believe. What I was going to say is I've not been to the Debian wiki before. I have no idea what it's like. We're going to do so right now. Software, let's pick something.

I like Debian as well. I'm not doing it to be mean. It needs a little bit of improvement, I think, personally. Firefox. Okay. It looks functional, at least. It's sort of just a text dump.

Yeah, that's kind of it. It doesn't kind of help you. I mean, you'll find the better information just popping what you've got as a problem into a search engine and just finding some random post. But that's something that Linux users I think can improve themselves. So if you ever find an issue and you need to fix it,

just go onto the wiki for whatever distro you use and fix it on there for the next person so they don't get the same issue. If we all did that once a month how much better would Linux be? That's the philosophy I always follow anyway. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, the only issue is when you have when you have wikis that are very insular in who is allowed to Commit to them like you need some reputation in their community you need to be involved in discussions things like that and having that having that barrier to entry is a good thing

to make sure the quality of the content is good but can be a barrier to having new people join in that space and contribute things that may otherwise be left out on by the people already there do any distros actually have that i've never i don't think i've ever come across one i don't think it's really a massive issue with the i i haven't looked at all of the wiki so i can't say but there are yeah no i just i don't think i've ever seen a distro do it so i would just there are there are wikis outside of the distro space so i was just assuming there were probably uh wikis in the distro space that are like that um if there's not then that's great but i know i'm just saying we sorry i was gonna i know there are wikis out there that are definitely like that um so it would just make sense i suppose like the

smaller sort of uh communities I can understand, probably just to keep away spam and stuff like that. But I don't think I've seen a big one. I'll say for Gen 2, I know we'd rather you put in a bad edit with good information in it, and then the people would know how to word it properly or go in and fix it afterwards. Because, you know. All we need is the information. And obviously there's also talk pages on most wikis. If you

know how to fix it but don't know how to write it, just write it in there and someone else will do it for you. Right, right, right. Because it can seem, especially if English is like a second language for you, it can seem a bit intimidating getting involved in that space. I can understand that. Although most people that speak another language probably speak better English than I do, which is quite worrying.

Yeah, I know the feeling. Native English speakers are the worst people at English. You're not wrong. We have this native understanding. But if you ask us to explain grammar, good luck with that one. I can put a comma and a full stop in sometimes, but that's about it. Yeah, exactly. It is crazy, isn't it?

It is crazy. I think I've had once before. Sorry? I've had people. I was going to say, I've had people there going, sorry for my bad English, and I'm like, you speak better than I do. I don't know what you're apologising to me for. Can you teach me?

Yeah, I always love that. I'll get these comments from time to time. There'll be these really well-articulated... I have to check what some of the words mean in the dictionary. I'm like, what? Oh, sure. And they're like, oh, sorry, English english my second language are you sure like maybe they have issues speaking it but you certainly don't have issues writing it no so you seem to understand

it very well but it's just a problem i don't think native speakers will ever understand because we can't even learn our own language let alone another person yeah yeah um which always makes me laugh whenever uh like people who are native english speakers go to another country just like a common way to get into another country is to go there as an english teacher um yeah but like and the ones who do it when they don't have like a linguistics degree i have no idea how they managed to make that work i apparently get it with uh people that speak chinese and uh japanese over here i've heard stories of people doing that like no no uh thing on it but just because they know the language they can teach it i'm sure you can teach it better than like you know having no knowledge whatsoever but

i don't know how well that would really go to be honest. I can't say how well it'll work. I mean, my teacher tried teaching me French for 13 years and I still can only say hello. Yeah, I don't have any... I think in my primary school, we did some German. I don't remember much of it. I think the only thing

that I retained was counting 1 to 10, and that's pretty much it. And maybe good morning as well, because that's a simple one. But I don't even think I learnt that in the class. I think I just learnt that from watching movies. You know what, you're probably right.

I think I learnt most of my French from that but all from um french food or something so um back to the uh back to the linux side um so you were saying before that you'd already been messing around with doing genuine things and things like Pentium 3. Yep. So, besides that, were you messing around with Gentoo and other devices at the time? Yeah, so I've done many before

in the past, like little pocket PCs, like a little 40MHz machine with like 16MB of RAM, but that was back when I didn't really understand um linux as much as i thought you know know the stage when you think you know it all but know nothing yeah yeah um and like i had like a little spark um laptop as well which was quite nice um but it's only been recently that i've actually understood what i was doing to be able to do it. So I started off with the Pentium 3,

then moved on to the Xbox 360, which is awful. Don't do that with Linux, especially Gen 2. What's wrong about the Xbox? So there's a bug on all Xbox 360s that if all the processors hit a certain load, it hard locks the console. And apparently it's always been there

and every game has worked around it. And the only reason we know about it is because we got Linux running on it in the first place and hit it constantly. It's never been solved since they've got it on there and no one ever thinks they will. But yeah, you'll randomly be using it and it will just crash.

But you can't do anything. Assuming that happened during the streams? Many, many, many, many times. Right. Awful. How do you avoid that? You can't. You physically can't. I've tried limiting it to one call. It just

hits a random load in a random place, and that's it. No one knows the secret sauce to stop it. If anyone does please please uh upload fix do me a favor that's so dumb so did you end up getting that one done or were you just like uh i've got it working on there it's not usable so i've not released it you know it's uh yeah it it was just more of a passion project for fun uh the better one i did was the nintendo wii which uh i actually managed to get a full um a full installer like a stage three that

you just rip to an sd card and if you've put um what's the loader me boot onto your wii you just plugged in the sd card of it and instantly booted into Gen 2 for you, which was pretty good. And then you could just use it as a, you know, install it from there to how you wanted it to be, which was quite fun doing that. What was the other one after that? What do we have? You have

the PowerPC, the PowerMac G5? Yeah, the G5, um, I think I was speaking to a Gen 2 dev, um, about bugs, and he was telling me about how bad Big Edian um, PowerPC

64 was, and then the next thing I'm there on eBay trying to find a system to buy. Because I just find stuff like that fun. But it's a really good price, though. With the other PS2 and the 360, did you just happen to have those just already still laying around?

Xbox 360 I had from a childhood. I had a PS2 somewhere, but I can't find it, so I just bought another one. Okay, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, so depending on free, I got free from work one day because it was cheaper to give it to me than put it in e-waste yeah that makes sense

yeah it's crazy isn't it yeah so they rung me up one day and they were like oh we got this pc it's really old you'd like that wouldn't you? Yeah. Well known. Hey, at least it works out for you then. Oh yeah, sometimes it does. What else have I got? I've got an original Xbox as well that I need to install it on one day. That'd be a pretty big... Again, that's just a

penny and free and a funky box, isn't it, really? Oh, you're right. The original Xbox was basically just a PC pc wasn't it yeah yeah pretty much just a stripped down version of windows 2000 i believe right no of course it is because that's why that's why all the devs hated the ps2 because it was this dumb architecture that didn't make any sense um yeah. It's like, hey, let's have this emotion engine thing. Like, I'm sorry, what?

What did you just say? Let's not do that. I think it was more the issue on the PS3 that everyone had the issue with. The PS3 was a lot worse, but the PS2, from my understanding, it was a mess as well. Modern Vintage Gamer did a really good breakdown of the architecture and

how it was different from um you know well things going on at the time and when when the alternative to the ps2 is a pc like it's obviously going to be easier to develop one of them but the ps2 just was a dvd player that was very cheap so it kind of sold really well. So they had to learn it. Yeah, and it was out a good few years before, so it had already won the console war before they even got into the market. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The PS3, even though it was a cheap Blu-ray player,

it didn't exactly help it that much. No, I mean, that was the first year I didn't buy Sony as a thing. I... No, I've only ever bought PlayStation consoles, yeah. I've actually never bought anything from Microsoft. I did have an original Xbox that was secondhand gifted to me, and I had a Wii thathand gifted to me, and I had a Wii that was gifted to me, but I've never actually

bought a Xbox or a Nintendo console with my own money. That's pretty good going. I mean, obviously my things are a little bit different, so I look for a system that's hackable so I can put Linux on it. As everyone does.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So obviously, when it came hackable so i can put linux on it you know as everyone does oh yeah yeah yeah obviously it's obviously when it came to the ps3 at the time it wasn't hacked so it was 360 that year for me is the ps3 doable now or what's yeah oh yeah now it's it's fairly easy if you know what you're doing it's going to be a little hard because i don't think the software has been updated in a few years. So you'll probably be starting from a 2014 base. But if you've been using Linux for a while, you'll easily be able to sort that out yourself. I mean, I've got some notes lurking around about how I'd think I'd do it without seeing it. But it's just getting my hands on a system.

One day I'll find one lurking around and a thrift shop or something can do it. So one thing I want to ask you about is uh with that that gen 2 uh 2.6.39 kernel why specifically that kernel right so uh when i first did the xbox 360 there was only a working 2.6 kernel that i could find right um and i couldn't get any other kernel to work so i thought I'd just use that which then led me to find out all the changes that happened

and 2.39 is the old oh oh is he gone? hello? hello, you back? okay yeah, cool there you go, don't know what happened there. So I don't know where I broke off at.

You're saying 2.6 was... There was patches to the kernel, something about 360? Yeah, so I had to patch on the Xbox 360, but while I was doing that, I found out that 2.6.39 was the oldest one of getting EUV dev to work on the system. So I did it just because it was still a challenge, but not stupidly challenging. Because obviously you still have to patch a lot of programs

to work for the older programs, but at least you can get your devices working off the bat. You probably could go older if you've got more time but why would you want to do that i mean i only did it for fun well the question is why do you want to do 2.6.39 in the first place but sure well obviously i did it because of a need for the xbox but you know i spent that much time i thought i might as well put some notes on the case they whenever everyone else wants to do what I've just done. So it was more of a, I know how to do it now,

let's teach other people how to do it if they get stuck in a situation I was in. Because there's old routers out there that only use a 2.6 kernel. You could follow my guide, get Gen 2 running on it, and have a fairly reasonable secure machine. I wouldn't say it was too secure, but... To be fair, when we say 2.6 kernel, that doesn't exactly mean much, because that kernel

versioning was around for way too long. From 2003 to... Oh, the last one, 2.6.39, 2011. Yeah. That's it. I remember when the first release came out so yeah so thanks making me feel well i've done a video on the history of uh linux kernel versioning and i

i the 2.6 series was i see why two of olds just doesn't ever want that to ever happen again like that was yeah yeah i get that i mean i look like his vision a big number is hard and i say it's best reason ever but it does make sense you know back in the day it used to be um it used to mean something like 2.4 2.5 but not anymore no not for a while i think i want to say the last time it actually meant anything was probably pre 2.6 yep I think so, well 2.6 was the reason it changed wasn't it really

I mean also we needed version 3 so we could have had 3.1 3.11 I love those numbers like 2.6.39.4 why, why, stop it it's the little patching notes isn't it in the middle of it I can't remember what they do 2.6.39.4. Like, what is... Why? Why? Stop it. It's the little patching notes, isn't it? In the middle of it. I can't remember what they do.

But, yeah, it does get hard, especially when you're trying to find a specific kernel to work. And you're like, no, you need this one point. I spent ages once dealing with an issue with that. What issue do you have with that? I was trying to patch? I was trying to patch a set of drivers, but

it needed a certain version of the point, I think it was like.3, but they released 10 points for that one. But obviously the release notes didn't say which one it needed. So, yeah, three, four hours later of going, I wonder if I try this version, and then it worked.

The nice thing you have with trying to find old kernels like this unlike trying to find old distros is with the kernels everything is just you know they're in the source code if you want to go get to the the specific tag and go and compile it can. Trying to find old distros, like, I could find Red Hat 5.1. The distro surrounding it on either side, long gone to history. No one seems to have an archive. Yep.

I was looking for an old version of the Gen 2 one, because people wanted to see about how we used to have Femin on the desktop. So I was like, oh, I know 2007 edition had it. Could I find that? Nope.

I only managed to find one on archive.org, which was from 2006, but it had the X display on it as well. And I was like, how is it so hard to find it i mean someone needs to actually just start this up i mean there's got to be data hoarders out there with all this information yeah that that's the hope but you would also think that someone would have ripped

the iso at this point dumped it online somewhere but sadly yeah but I think there's a few distros that do have good archives. Ubuntu has a great archive Yeah, they definitely do. They have everything going all the way back on every architecture they've ever supported Red Hat for some reason around, I want to say

around like 2001, 2002 just were like, we don't need these old ISOs, just delete them. Which kind of... They're not keeping the old Fedora calls. Haven't they still got 1 and 2 on there? I can't say about Fedora,

but Red Hat Linux is gone. Yeah, you're definitely right on the Red Hat one. I know they're hard to find. But I thought they kept all the Fedoras. Yeah, I don't know what Fedora's archive looks like, actually. Fedora, Linux, Reap... I know Debian's got everything on it as well yeah thank god as well they do that can be a blessing uh fedora at least on the fedora project website has things going back to fedora 9 yeah it seems like everything before that is gone.

Yeah, okay. It's the last time I looked at Fedora now. Uh, yeah. Well, either way, like, for most people, you don't need these ridiculously old ISOs. No, definitely not. There's no one in their right mind either, except for weirdos, I suppose,

like us. But I guess it's sort of the same thing like game preservation, where even though it doesn't matter really, it's probably better for that data to still be out there, just on the off chance that some weirdo needs it. Yeah, I'd say.

I'd rather it be there than not. Maybe I should start it up, but i doubt i'll get time go on a place to buy those just go through each each release of gen 2 just installing it on something just just to see how things see how little things actually in time. Actually, I did think about doing an install starting from a 2014 base just to see how bad it would go. Of course you did. But I've still got to finish off my Gen 2 from Git Sources only install first

before I think of that one. I think the least weird thing that you've got on this channel is Genji on a Raspberry Pi 3. Like, that's the only normal thing you have, basically. No, even that's not normal because I've built my own profile for that one to work. So it's a very strange setup. Okay. Mostly not. At least it's a normal device this time.

Okay, I'll give you that one. But if it it's not a challenge it's not fun you know sure or i'm just trying to sell myself a story one of the two i see you have this uh gentle on the ps2 season two what's different about you doing it this time uh it's gonna be using the new um 23.0 profile and i'm hoping to be able to use clang to build it and well it'll also use missile as well so it'll be very low on memory if we get it to work but um i hit a bug on it at the moment with I think it was with Muscle, they've changed something in the long the LFS code, I can't remember exactly about finding it, so it's kind of on hold

at the moment, but once that's done it should be a lot faster and a lot lighter on memory once it's done and obviously I won't need to wait 10 hours for the HTTP to install What does lighter on memory mean in the context of a ps2 so the ps2's got 32 megabytes of ram right if only i think 22 available for the user to use once booted so every megabyte matters so you know it's the time when you hear people say about bloke

this is the time when bloke matters you know every kilobyte that you can save is important. Yeah, I think there is this fascination with bloat with modern systems. I don't get it. When you have 16 gigs of RAM, you have 32 gigs of RAM, it really doesn't matter. I've been there myself. I remember when I went from 128 megabytes to

one gigabyte which obviously nothing nowadays but and i was still there in my thing making sure i got the ram down to one percent usage and i'm one day i just went why am i doing that for i've got more ram that i can ever use i've never cared again you know balance tabs open desktop environment running if you need it it's there and it's not bloat if you need the code yeah exactly i like i get i get liking to use these lighter systems because you like the lighter systems like i run a window manager actually i've actually swapped to to wayland, I'm running Hyperland now but before I was running a window manager on Xorg I get it, I get that you want to run

these light things, but I don't get it for the the RAM the RAM aspect, and I think a lot of people also misunderstand like, what bloat means, I've had so many people tell me like, this project has too many lines of code as if

the lines of code is somehow an indicator of the project being like bloated like do you know what the lines of code are doing like that sounds a bit like pseudo to me pseudo versus duas i mean if you don't need the code and fair enough switch to it but sure i'd rather have a working program with the things i need than a broken system that uses one percent of the memory i actually do use duas but that's besides the well it was just a good example it's the most common one yeah yeah yeah i think another great example is um things like GNOME GNOME runs perfectly fine on a modern system if you're running some of the

nonsense that you run on your channel I get not wanting to put GNOME on that but if we're talking like you have a Ryzen 5000 series CPU or something it's not gonna matter it's really not not in any chance ever

at all all it matters to is does it make you work faster yeah if it does use it if it doesn't pick something else it's all that matters on a system like that at the end of the day just pick whatever makes the most sense for what you're doing if you're the kind of person who you know you just don't like the look of your dome just you know just don't use it then but if you like yeah definitely but if you just want something that works it it certainly does do a good job at that like it it does just mostly work and it also achieves my goal of uh annoying people when i use it on streams because there's a lot of people who are just you know violently against gnome existing and anyone using gnome so if they see you know some youtuber using gnome it's gonna very much uh bother them um and that's always fun

yeah i'll get you on that one i've got a similar thing so i always use nano and the amount of comments i get from people saying, what are you using Nano for? And obviously they can't say anything, because of what I'm doing, so. But it always cracks me up. Yeah, like, what are you going to say to a guy who's trying to, like, I saw you did

the thing a couple months ago about getting Rust working on a Pentium 3. Yep. Like, what are are you gonna say about that like it's quite interesting that the best time i had that was i was helping a google dev install gen 2 on stream someone called me in so i was teaching him through it he made this obviously i've helped him all the way through and then he made this long speech about um about nano and then after you finished, I just went, I use Nano.

And I saw someone dig out the hole. He was a great guy, by the way. I'm not thinking about it. But it was just funny trying to watch someone get out of the hole afterwards. This makes my day. It's the troll inside me. I can't get away from it. I think I've used Nano... twice, maybe.

Yeah. It's... I don't like Nano. But, like... I don't know any... I know the keybinds are on the screen, but I don't know them, like... You know, I don't know them out of my heart, so...

I always am just way slower using it than anything else. Yeah, yeah yeah that makes sense i've used it since it was pico before the rewrite for gnu so obviously it's the same for me with vim and stuff like that i know where they are i know what some of the things are and i can get my way around it but i'm so much slower what's the point switching my uh my favorite thing with vim is when i was i there was a time when I used to do a lot of Vim videos, like talking about Vim plugins, things like that.

And that was a long time ago now. But there are a lot of people that use Vim who are very particular about how you use Vim. It's like plugins bad. If you're not doing everything through native Vim, you're doing it wrong. It seems to be the same in Emacs as well. Like, you can do everything you need.

What are you doing? Stop it. You're supposed to use it in a very particular way. I need to find these people. That's hilarious. I guess Nano just doesn't have that because Nano is just Nano. It just gets on the job. That's all I'm there.

All I want to do is change a config, make it work, and then get on with my job. I don't need no frills. Nano is the... It is the Ubuntu of text editors. It is the, I am here to get work done. I don't care about anything else. Modifications?

What are those? Let's just work. Yeah, that's exactly it. I don't need it to play music to me I don't need to do anything else Just need to edit text Yeah, that's pretty much it And if you're comfortable with it as well There's no reason to just go and swap to something

Just because people say You should be using Ed, go use Ed Because there are those you should be using Ed, go use Ed. Because there are those people out there. Or like, go use EX. Like, if Nano's doing everything you need and like, you're not here like, you're here

trying to set up Genji. You're not here to talk about what the best text editor is. It doesn't matter what that is. Yeah. It's exactly as that is. Just use what works best for you. That's what the best text editor is. It doesn't matter what that is. Yeah. It's exactly as that is. Just use what works best for you. That's what the beauty of Linux is. Exactly. No one tells you what to use. You just find that tool

and that's what you use. If I don't like it, that's fine. But you like it. So with this Rust on the Pentium 3, I've heard, like this seems to be a common complaint I'll hear about people that really don't want rust in the kernel but like rust sse2 rust sse2 what is the big deal with rust and sse2 and what like why why are these people complaining all the time right so

obviously i'm more outside so i don't know the full technical details, but back when they decided what the i686 system was, they picked it to have SS2 because all Pentium 4s had it, and some Pentium 3s did, but nothing

else does, so it basically limits about 80% of the x86 architecture from using rust um so yeah that's basically the issue is but there is a way around it and that's what i went to set out to fix annoyingly though just as i fixed it um 486 supports dropped from the kernel so they're now dropping 486 support in rust and putting 586 in the rust so yeah everyone's going to be fixed anyway soon so it doesn't matter anymore yeah which was great just as you get to the end to realize that i was like i i always love how like get wanting Linux to run

on everything you can install Linux on your ancient system and it keeps working but there is a point in how ancient it is where it doesn't make any sense to run a modern kernel anyway

so it doesn't really matter you can get systems in about 2006 2008 still running those kernels that still aren't supported so that's i've still been there in game for being supported myself yeah maybe from the 80s 90s early 90s yeah i'll be with you like uh when uh i386 support was dropped for example like you know when it was dropped those those cpus were already e-waste yeah yeah and i'll get you on that i mean let's say and even i486 support dropping is it really an issue not not without the kernel is now you can pick up a well what was it 6.1 it's still in 6.2 it drops That sounds

right yes Yeah so you should still be able to use that kernel for a fair few years and if you want back for it but you know you're not putting that machine on the internet anyway so To be honest that does sound quite fun

Of course it does but you know I reckon you'll be fine for another good 10 years or so and even then I've got a guide on the Gen 2 wiki that'll show you how to do it if you want to carry on using it past then so

this took you about 12 hours so it took you 12 hours to get this all set up was that you trying to work stuff out, or did you already have it already planned out, and it was just a matter of actually executing it? So I've spent many, many months working on this, getting it to compile. But the most fun part of it was building the Pentium 3 machine

to actually build it, because it was crashing in a VM at the time. So I thought, all the time i'm wasting i might as i just do it in a on a real machine and it'll be done in the background so i built a gen 2 system as light as possible managed to get it to boot in i think nine megabytes of ram just so just stripping out everything that i don't need but and then obviously just optimising it as stable as I can without needing much yeah and then just left

Rust building and then 38 days later it finally finished so I know that you like every so often you will talk in the streams, how often are you actually there paying attention to what's going on?

Oh, well, once a day, about for five minutes. I mean, on my phone, I've got an SSH screen link that I can just pop in, just see it's still running. So I didn't really need to watch the stream. But every time I was at home, I'd have a look, see

if anyone's messaged, met a nice person on there. We used to chat a bit when we was there I've forgotten his name now, I'll go and find it because it was quite nice I wasn't there often I wasn't there often I think it was James James or Mitchell, one of the two

I was speaking to them quite a lot. They basically kept me sane during it when I was there. I think I did have a few times that I've been drinking too much and might have chatted away a bit. You know, trip back from the pub and you're like, eh, see who's there. Because it definitely made me curious. Like, just, you know,

there are some people who will do crazy things on twitch like sit there for like you know people doing subathons for like multiple days so i did want to know like how how much you did actually say because you know you would have an actual job uh yeah now i've got an actual job and if my employees ever watching this i spend a hundred of time of my day on my job not doing anything on gen 2 obviously but um you know i'm i'm not there all the time like i can leave things running um you know if i'm there it's because it's my hobby time not not because i don't know i do actually go out amazingly you wouldn't believe it for the stuff i do have there been any any cases where you didn't realize something had broken and it just sat there for a while and you're doing nothing?

Yeah, I've had that. I had one person that said something and I was like, no, it's still working. It's fine. Don't worry about it. Building away. It must have been going for a good hour or so before they said it again. And I was like, what are you saying that for? It's definitely working. Then I looked and i went no no they're

right it's broken it's not doing anything which was quite embarrassing obviously just apologize and move on but my main issue is always spell a mistake i'll spend an hour fixing something oh trying to solve an issue and then i'll find out i've added an extra s somewhere yeah um in a config file and that was the reason so it doesn't matter how good you think you are at linux you know it's always the basics that trip you up yeah yeah uh i i can't remember how many times i've ruined something like i haven't i'm not a kind of person who likes to install my os a bunch but of the times i have installed arch there have been there have been some times where yeah just some some simple commands so like with things that i know are very dangerous like you

know petitions things like that and you don't want to screw things up i like triple quadruple check everything that i'm typing make sure sorry you're better than me then make if i'm doing on my actual system i don't want to touch the drive like those um recently national was recently a while back I had to swap out my swap out my Arch install without touching my home. Just be extra certain I'm not touching that home petition.

I don't want to lose that. Like, I had a backup of it, so it would have been fine. It was just, I didn't want to copy the data over. So it's better to just use the correct petition, be extra certain. I've got a story for that one.

So I went away on holiday with the kids and the missus, took loads of photos, got back home, left that drive in the machine, didn't check which one I was wiping, and found out what they call DD this destroyer that day oh I had uh I think three hours before three four hours before she got home from work that day to learn how to do data recovery but I will say I have now got that skill on my CV so successfully recovered all those photos wow no losses yeah i called it very quickly when i started

writing it so i think i only lost a few of the beginning files but that was my art was beaten that day i'm not gonna lie i've actually not done any i i've not actually looked into data recovery like what even is the process of doing that uh so i use test disk um and it just scans over the drive and you tell it which file format you want it to find i just said look for every jpeg because it was obviously what the camera was taking and it just scans it through and it just dumps them out into a directory for you if you've got a bad drive you can use something like um dd rescue and it'll take an image of the drive but obviously just makes it a bit slower than and retries more than the original dd and then you can do the same

thing again on that image drive obviously i can't do anything more advanced than that you get people to buy the dodgy hard drives and get the the headers off and stuff like that and rebuild it but you know go super professional when you get to that stage we're not sitting here in a clean room trying to do crazy shit uh but i i've not even done like basic level stuff like i i if data is gone for me data is gone i hadn't really looked into anything else i'd say one day you're going to delete something that you haven't got a backup for that's the day you learn how to do it before then you don't know that's the only reason i know how to do it it's because i went oh you idiot why'd you do that the only thing that i i've lost where it was really annoying is um i lost uh i think a week worth of videos but i still had the the the i still had the notes for them so it was just easier to re-record them. Like, it was only a couple of hours.

Yeah, it's a video, yeah. You're probably right. You're not going to recover that, are you? There's no way. Yeah. Maybe I could have recovered some of the clips, but a full, like, you know, the videos that I export are, like, a couple of gig. I don't think there's any way that's coming back.

No, I don't think there's. Well,'s coming back. No, I don't think there's... Well, it depends what file format you use then, I suppose. What do I export? Well, I record as MKV, but I export MP4, so probably not. No, you've got no chance. Although, I do feel bad for you.

I've been having a go at trying to do YouTube videos. It's awful, isn't it? I don't know how you do it. I really don't. What issues are you having? It's just knowing how to talk, isn't it? It's easy to do it when you're on stream. You mess up, you can just give up and start again on something else. You do it on a video, you've got to restart the whole thing again.

I tried doing a small thing the other day. It took me like half an hour just to get the first minute recorded. I might need to buy one of those little note machines that are above me the screen or something so i've told people before how i do my notes but it's it's so jank i have uh i have a monitor arm with a dirt cheap monitor and i just have my notes there slightly off camera uh so in my videos you see me looking slightly away um that's why i just it's so much easier than you know getting some sort of like teleprompter because those are expensive i can just go get like a 50 monitor attached to my arm that i already had anyway and we're basically good to go yeah that's good i bet you say you're better than me i'm not

organized enough to do anything like that to be fair i just do it straight from the head to be fair i didn't do this back when i first started this is a like a you have screwed up so many times actually work out what you're doing wrong and try to do it better uh yeah i've not had that moment yet it will come soon i'll imagine yeah honestly i, I think the issue I have with talking on video, like, even with how many videos I've made, it still takes me a while sometimes to get a specific line. Like, there are certain words, like proprietary, for example, where I will trip up on them more times than I would like to admit honestly i should just i should upload one video where it's a completely uncut like raw version of how i record because it would be

absolutely awful like you should do it i'd love that video i think the problem that i have now like i didn't have this issue earlier, now I understand enough about making video where I realize how bad I am at speaking. So I will sometimes retake a very tiny thing because I don't have the inflection exactly how I want it to be. I don't pronounce a word exactly how I want it to be I don't pronounce a word exactly how I want it to be and it takes me honestly, I feel like it takes me longer to make videos than it did when I was just Making shit videos that I just you know talked off my head. Just whatever happens happens Okay for me. I think everyone just comes to see my videos just to see what I've mispronounced this time. I mean, everyone would miss it if I started doing it properly.

Although for proprietary, I just normally use closed source. That actually is a good plan. I should do that. I still can't spell it though. Even today, I was trying to say it to someone. And I was like, you know, I've been using what, 20 odd years? Still can't spell proprietary, so I have to do the old do the old text of speech on the phone to get around it with something that works um it gets you out of a problem oh god yeah uh what what gave you the idea to start actually like trying to do videos as well um i think think it was the

getting 100 subscribers, because obviously I just do it for fun. I don't do it for anything else. Some people don't know you can do this sort of stuff. So I thought I'd better do something. And then I did the speed run just for a laugh, because it's easy to do.

And then I thought I might just do a parody of the Gen 2 install videos that just do a parody of the uh gen 2 install videos you see a lot of um because obviously the issue with those is they're great when they first come out then very quickly become out of date and right cause everyone that does support issue so i thought i'd just do a parody um one day that will come out one day yeah the same is true on the arch side as well like every so often i don't know if it happens like this on the gentoo side but on the arch side changes seem to get made occasionally that seem entirely arbitrary they don't seem like changes that need to be done like uh i think there was a change with, maybe a package name changed or

something. There was a, oh, a package group changed. It changed from being, like, a package group to being some other thing, and, like, a package was moved out of the group, seemingly randomly. They changed the way that Wi-Fi set up it didn't change anything about like the quality of it it was just like let's change the program i don't know if they do it for the purpose of breaking the videos but it seems like sometimes they do it for the purpose of breaking the videos but you might be right i don't think i've ever noticed anything like that on gen 2 my um one of the ones that we normally know is there's people telling the new users to use um the testing branch to be arch like even though it's not the arch like system it's you know volunteering to be a tester the new features which is brilliant when you're trying to

get someone who's brand new to linux to learn how to do bug reporting and s trace and all that that fun please please don't do that if you're a new user. Use it when you're ready. Or the other good one is random C flags that no one actually understands what they do, but they've read it on an article 20 years ago, so it must be good.

That's something you see with Linux gaming as well. Anytime you go and look at anything on ProtonDB, you'll see these giant lines of environment variables being passed into Proton, and half of them are just nonsense and don't need to be there. Like, they'll be like,

I'm using the AMD card, and they've got some NVIDIA option there. Like, what are you doing? And they're like, oh, yeah, I just copy the same commands to every single game. Why? Stop! If you don't know, you just do it, don't you? And you vote for the best.

I'm sure I've been there myself. But, yeah, I don't get it. It's just, it's painful. If you ever do any support, you'll know the pain that I've been through helping people with these things. Yeah, I can't say I've done support, but I have done basically support when it comes to people with university assignments.

You have people that come to you being like, hey, how does this thing work? How does that work? I'm like, go away, go ask someone else. So I'm too nice. I can't do it. I want to, but I can't,

I have to help him. And then, or the worst though, is if they come up with something and I'm really interested in it, I'm trying to think of, I was like, I've only got one as a good person, but someone came in with a new MIPS device.

And obviously my interest is there now I think I'm probably more keen on their project than they are on themselves but I just can't leave it alone if I see a bug that's it I've got to try and fix it I don't know why I think somewhere along the lines of giving me that you know you can reward yourself can't you

with strange things I think solving computer problems gets the gets the old adrenaline going or whatever it is. What's the thing in your body when you're happy? Serotonin? We neither have any idea what we're talking about.

No. I know what you're trying to say. I'm blanking on this as well. I can say that. It's not a trend. Oh, what is it? It's definitely not a trend. No.

Bloody hell. It's gone. Absolutely gone. There'll be a thousand comments later wrong with the word. There will be. Yeah. I'm sure. Thank you very much for giving them.

But we definitely need people like you who are actually willing like i i'm willing to make a video that explains something but it's sort of gotten to the point now where unless i know you personally i don't have the time to sit there and give you personalized advice about you know whatever it is that you're asking about. I'm happy to make a video on it and give everyone that information. But like, I can't sit here for an hour and be like, okay, here's how you do this and this and this. I can point you to something and that's, or like, I maybe direct you to like some group that can help you, but I'm not the person for that so we definitely need people who

are more willing to be like yeah i'm gonna sit here and get more interested in your thing than you are yeah let's say well for me though if i sit there on a support question i'm gonna find random bugs that no one's found before yeah yeah and then that's gonna give me that's many a time of someone's come up with an issue, it's highlighted a bug, you just submit a fix. So you're not fixing it for a person, you're fixing it for everyone. That makes sense. That's what makes it interesting for me.

So, yeah, sometimes I'm sitting there giving up some time, but for the greater good. One thing you mentioned before about people using the testing branch of Gen 2, I've definitely seen a lot of people you'll see a lot of uh every every youtube i'm sure you can think of names but yeah there are people that are like hey debbie and sid debbie and sid's great to run on your on your system like i'm sure it is but like can we not recommend testing branches and unstable branches to people that aren't in a position to know what they're doing when it comes to testing? Like, just that, if they want to go and use it, if you're someone who is a more advanced user who has that knowledge, who knows how to like go and debug something if something's going wrong, be my guest, go and run it. But like, can we not recommend that to new users please just definitely stop it that is 100 saying that

is so do it and we want more testers so please come and join us absolutely but not if it's your first day yeah yeah learn to walk before you run yeah yep yep like i whenever i mention something like this i always have the debbie and sid people coming in be like no debbie and sid's really stable debbie and sid's great like i'm sure it is but like if you're happy on debbie and sid you can use it but like it's just like the people that are recommending arch to like new users like you can do it i did it it worked out fine for me i also have no life and enjoy just messing around with computers like that's that's just me um but like

it's like we've got so many good distros there's so many good distros nowadays, I wish Mint was around when I started. It's just brilliant, it's probably the most perfect desktop distro we'll ever see in our lifetimes in Linux. Just let them learn and that, and then come over to what we like to do. Honestly, I'm surprised that Mint still has, like, even though it's nowhere near as popular as it was at one point it still very frequently gets mentioned like everyone's like yeah mint mint's a great beginner distro but like it's a distro in general like if you just want to work in computer put mint on it i've

had a laptop that i'm just like what i want to do is browse the internet like you know i can i can install anything and even i'm just like it's just nice My only My biggest concern with Mint is It doesn't break as much As I like it to It bores me When did Mint came out In 2006? I thought it was a bit later

Then what? Yeah I thought it was as well Because that would have When was It was around about The Gnome 2 time Wasn't it? So

When Gnome 3 came out Was that 2006? I don't know. No, neither do I now. Huh. Yeah, Mint's 2006. So that's only two years after Ubuntu. I never knew that.

I'm looking on Google, and the first people also ask thing is, is Linux Mint discontinued? No. Why are people searching that? It's probably because the devs were getting annoyed, weren't they, at one point and wanted to quit. Ah, that makes sense. Everyone came back and was just like, no, we love this distro.

It needs to stay behind. I remember reading it on Slashdot and it was the most saddest day I've ever heard. Like, why give up something so great? We need that distro it needs to stay stay behind i remember reading on slash dot and it was like the most saddest day i've ever heard like why give up something so great we need that distro like i've never used mint myself but everything i've heard about it sounds like it's pretty solid it's actually one exception um what during the ltd linux challenge where luke was using his nvidia card and for some reason his screens just broke uh besides that uh but that's in video you're always gonna get issues aren't you i mean there's nothing's gonna be bug free if it was then also it's in video so like yeah well i don't know i've always used nvidia it always worked for me. Oh, okay. 20, 22 years of Nvidia. I usually buy them because...

You don't obviously remember the ATI days. That was a dark day. There was a time in Linux where Nvidia was the only card you would ever buy. Yeah. Yeah, I did hear that there was a time where, like, Nvidia was just way better. Yeah, 100%. It once took me six months to get tv out working

that's how bad these drivers were jesus christ and not because i didn't know what i was doing just because the documentation was so poor you had to go for 100 settings to try and find the one that made it work i it was it was a bad time i i'm really new to Linux. Relatively so. I've been using it for maybe three or four years. So not new compared to some people, but still well into that period where Linux was as simple as you install it on basically any hardware and it just works. Maybe you have a Wi-Fi card issue.

Maybe. But anything else is just good for the most part, unless you're using some weird esoteric hardware like, you know, Stream Deck, things like that. But, like, normal computer, it's good. What was Linux like back when you first started using it? So for a Wi-Fi card, I remember having to ring up a technical support company for where i

bought it staying on hold for an hour to find out what chipset it was using so i could then use an end disk wrapper to load the windows nt driver into linux to make it work um it was a it was a rough time like you had to research everything that you were buying. I mean, nowadays, I just walk into a shop, buy a computer off the shelf, it's going to work. But what else was there? Oh, and support was also awful. If you had a problem, you had to translate

the Windows command into Linux, obviously, because they weren't going to help you if you sold them that. Printers never worked. Ever. I had a HP printer that would randomly just jam up on Linux for some

reason. It never happened on Windows. But you printed three pages on that. It weren't going. I don't think there was anything else other than that that really did that bad. You mentioned your ISP earlier. that, it weren't going. I don't think there was anything else other than that that really got bad. You mentioned your ISP earlier. Oh, AOL as well. That wouldn't work on there.

And then we had WinModems. What is it with WinModems? So basically, to save costs, they made the operating system handle most of the hardware stuff. So in software. So you had to buy a hardware modem to do it. So obviously it was using a lot more

memory and stuff like that, which was obviously noticeable on an old computer from 1999 kind of era. Yeah, so you had to get very lucky with stuff like that. What was the other one? I'd say drop printers were the worst one i remember lexmark had one printer driver and you had to hack it to work

on whichever model you bought which surprisingly worked quite well it's quite weird but yeah it was um it was an interesting time a lot more fun i mean nowadays you just pick up a cd which kind of obviously makes you laugh and people say how hard Linux is nowadays and you know It's trying to think so yeah So you everyone says Linux is really hard and stuff for that and you're thinking What you do is put CD in and away you go, you know You don't even need to drop into the terminal and some distros anymore. I mean

That was one thing as well um so we had with red hat and mandrake basically nowadays you can just use a cd it's fine yeah um back then you had to learn how to compile your own kernel within the first week to make it work on your system and especially doing that as a brand new user telling next learning how to compile the kernel it wasn't fun yeah i don't know why i stayed with it. All I can think of is Windows XP must have been awful That makes sense With why I don't know if you've seen the clip But there is this ancient clip of Stallman who is saying that he never installs his distro

He just goes to a Linux user group and someone does it for him he never installs his distro. He just goes to a Linux user group and someone does it for him. Yeah, I've seen that video clip. And I think that's why, because people like Storm and Linus aren't good with computers like we see software

and stuff. They're just good programmers. I don't think I've seen one of them ever mention they're good with system admin or anything like that. And especially if you go back to the days they were doing it, it must have been even worse. Yeah, well I'm sure

there's a difference with understanding the internals of a system and doing system admin. Because obviously Torvald has a good understanding of how a system comes together. He wrote the kernel because he didn't like what minix was doing basically it was like hey guys here's this thing um but yeah that's very

different from understanding like understanding how to manage how to manage the system yeah yeah yeah that's that's what i was trying to say, yeah. Yeah, I was saying, it's also the first to admit it as well, it's why he uses what he uses. Mm-mm. Well, he was saying not that long ago that he's very interested in what's happening with Asahi Linux, because he wants

a powerful ARM-based system. And you have these you have these, like, I find it really weird that there is this anger you'll see from some people about getting linux to run on the apple silicon systems like somehow getting it to run as a bad thing like having these systems become e-waste is good in this case for some reason i don't understand it no i don't get it either i mean maybe it's the thing of giving apple money in the first place but my argument there is the devices

are going to be on the second-hand market at some point and exactly that's what i would have thought i'd wait till someone gives me one for free or i'll find one on ebay for next to nothing can have a great time with it yeah exactly i mean it's not the first time he's switched over i mean he's used the i think he used a power pc uh processor for quite a while like five years or something i remember him switching over um i think people are more worried there that he wasn't going to do x86 patches so other than yeah we're just gonna kill the entire usability of this system based on power pc which how's powerPC doing nowadays? Well, apparently this time next year,

another architecture's going to overtake it. I've been listening to it for a fair few years. Mm-hmm. It started off with ARM and now it's RISC-V. It's always dying, but never dies. The issue with replacing... replacing x86 is you just it's it's everywhere like you need to you can't really you know you can break into little segments of the market like there are certainly device classes that are not x86 like you know phones for example um and you know but like replacing

the entire desktop doing that you either need a really good translation layer or you need all of this software to be rewritten for an entirely new architecture or using you know something that can easily cross compile which what what's the benefit there if when we've already got it yeah that's the issue the thing that worries me is that we all what everyone wants it to change but it's not going to be as open as we got now it's going to be a very locked down system i mean just look at um so trying to get that onto devices could be a pain in the ass yeah when we'll talk about risk 5 being open i think people forget about the fact that you can have an open spec with a closed implementation like if we actually saw good risk 5 on the desktop it's going to be full of extensions that are just

they're going to be just as locked down as what you're seeing with x86 also it's a CPU it doesn't matter if it's open you're not hardware hacking that's not going to happen all you want is the open bootloader

you're fine as soon as that's closed down and that's what we're unwittingly walk into if we're not careful or support enough hopefully we don't I do think it's cool to have an open architecture and for those people who are the hardware hackers

that's awesome but it doesn't matter for most people it really doesn't I like playing on risk I like playing on risk. Sorry? I'll say I like playing on risk, but I don't see myself ever moving over to it.

I'm sure if you can work out how to do Gen 2 with something, you're going to do something, surely. Well, I was fine until I realised I need to solder on some connectors because the USB serial's not working. My soldering skills aren't very good. So that's what I was doing before waiting for this call, was looking on eBay for a UART to try and do that. But I finally tuned the second part of my Ox64 video.

It should be out. So just curious about a ballpark figure, how many times have you installed Gen 2? Hmm. Well, enough times that I know the handbook off by heart. Yeah, I'd say

probably in the 50s, 60s figures. But, you know, I'm setting up development machines and stuff like that right so um yeah you know so yeah i've got like a load of machines that are just there for different setups so i can test a bug on something if someone comes up um like i've got a a virtual machine that actually emulates a an i8 an i486 uh-huh um and then also i've got one for every cpu if i need it oh my god but yeah most people don't install gen 2 as many times as i do i mean i know people that's got one going for 20 years now i actually know a few people that's got the original 20 year install going i don't know how they do that yeah that's that's the people that

you want to be looking up to like keeping the system going that long and not messing up fair play to you yeah that's that's actually really cool um yeah i i saw this uh this article a while back about someone taking the it was done like you you know, I think 2020 or something. They took the original Arch ISO and then tried to update it all the way up to where we are now. And there have been, with like

a rolling release, like the idea is you can keep going, you know, until you feel like breaking it. But occasionally there have been changes. I'm sure Gen 2 is the same thing occasionally there have been changes i'm sure gen 2 is the same thing where there have been changes in how things are structured like maybe repo changes how maybe keys are structured uh how maybe like packages are structured things like that where if you tried to do it now you're gonna run into some issues even though during like when it

was happening it just rolled through perfectly fine you can actually do it so if you i've tried it on arch from uh i think i found a 2009 install somewhere that i got my daughter to install um that's that's quite a funny story actually i'll tell you later um and i tried upgrading it and it failed catastrophically but what arch and gen 2 both have is a git system where you can take a snapshot of what the tree looked like at a certain time. So let's say you start in 2014. You can take a snapshot six months from that point it was installed, do the update, then take another one six months later, do the update again and just do it as if it was that system you did. There's actually a guide for it on the Gentoo wiki.

I think it's Upgrade Gen 2 from Ancient Hardwells, something. Let's see if I can find it. Old Gentoo install, I think it's called. If you can find it, send me a link. I want to have a look at it. Yeah, let me just quickly... Ah!

Here we go. I think this is the backup version. Okay. i'll pop this into discord for you easy it should be this one yeah so it basically just shows you it's got different ways of doing it got the easy the hard way but i mean if you just take the snapshots of the um i'll tell you just use the git um branches that's the one i'm after and you can um yeah you can easily do it it's not that hard it just takes a while plan ages go for it yeah yeah don't do that it normally breaks yeah i would guess it's so fun i've had people come in with a two-year-old system on um on some of the support places and it's so fun trying to fix their system getting around it

especially if they like you know they're interested in learning with you at the same time so you get to teach people some new things they've never done before um while fixing their system and learning a few new things yourself that's a real challenge if you can do one of those yeah no that's uh that that's not for me i'm just gonna i'm just gonna keep my system rolling And we're not gonna worry about it I'll deal with I'll deal with some keys being out of date Sometimes

Maybe like a key is lost They have to like delete it Fine but like I'm not We're not doing this one That's for sure Try it once. Come back.

Sure. Maybe if I decide to do a stream on my main channel again, I will do something like this. And just hate myself. Well, I don't have to do an LFS. Nothing's as hard as that. Well, nothing's as tedious as that, should I say. It's not hard, is it?

No, it's not hard. It's as well documented, maybe more so than gen 2 like lfs is just copy and paste commands and you'll finish it yeah exactly we always joke that you don't learn anything in lfs except for how to use tar properly and that's pretty much a good point yeah i mean i've never used the tar manual again. I think I last did LFS in 2004. And yeah, I've known how to use TAR ever since. Yeah, there were some mistakes I made during that LFS. Oh, yeah.

The worst thing is that you don't find out you made a mistake until you're four chapters further into the next chapter, and then you realize you made the mistake. Yeah. And trying to figure out how to revert the mistakes awful my the best mistake is it wasn't even a lfs mistake it was a mistake of not doing lfs uh so i was doing this in a virtual machine please do lfs in a virtual machine. Please do LFS in a virtual machine. You're going to... Or on a dedicated system that you don't care about, whatever's on there.

So, I was doing LFS. I... So, you know how there's that variable that's like, this is the LFS user. Make sure this variable is set to the LFS user so that every time you do a command

it inputs the correct user. Yeah, I think it's a failure. So it's been a fair few years since I've done it, nearly 19 years now, but I vaguely remember it. I didn't set that user and I got

to the point where it was um changing the ownership of the system over to the lfs user and when the variable's not set uh i kind of changed the ownership of my entire system to root well nice so it kind of. Did you restart? Or did you fix it? I fixed the LFS section and I managed to work around it with the rest of the VM. So, I didn't worry about it. And that's pretty impressive because most people just give up and restart. And I say that's the part you're learning from LFS. It's the troubleshooting. So props to you for actually figuring it out. I never actually finished LFS. I got really bored with it.

It's boring as hell, isn't it? You hear people go on about how great it is and all the things you're going to learn. And anyone that's done it knows that once you've finished you think why did i waste that time i've learned nothing if i wasn't doing it on stream i would not have done it at like full stop um but where did i get up to let's see if i can find uh here we go stable where was i... Oh, wait, is it... No, okay. I thought... I guess I must have cleaned out my cookies already because it doesn't show what I've clicked on.

Um... I think I was somewhere in... I was, like, right near the end, actually. I think I was up to, like, system configuration. So just before making the system bootable. Oh. Okay. I think I got to... I got all the way to the desktop

I mean I got known to run in Wow and then make sure I got I got I got to there Got it all working had that moment of yeah, how good am I and then went? All right What am I doing now? If I want to make this usable? Oh, I couldn't stall portage onto this and then then at that point, I'm like, I should just install Gensu and flattened it and restart it again. What was the point?

I always think of LFS as that Sunday car thing. You get the old man driving that tunes it all up, makes it nice. But you've got a real machine somewhere else that when you want to do real work. I have seen some crazy people out there

and they're very very smart people that run it as a daily driver but it's not for me no it's it's a bit much it's a like I get it it's a really cool idea and it teach

if you want to pay attention to what's going on, it really does teach you a lot. Especially if, like, in the bits where it just gives you a big text dump of, like, commands to run, if you go and check what each of those commands do and what each of the options do, you can learn a lot about what's going on. But if you're just going through it you know going through the motions

you're not gonna learn anything really like yeah i can i can kind of see that i mean obviously i came from uh gen 2 when i did it so i've the stuff that i would have learned from there i've already learned from using gen 2 so for me there was no but it. Maybe if you're using Ubuntu or Fedora, maybe you will learn something, because you don't really get into troubleshooting issues that you'll hit on that, but I personally think you'll have a better time with Gentoo using the troubleshooting on that.

Sorry? Yeah, no, let's carry on. I was going to say, the other thing you learned really well is how to use some basic make commands. Yeah, and you're patching as well, I to use some basic make commands. Yeah, yeah. And you're patching as well. I'm pretty good at that. I can patch anything nowadays.

I can even write. I can actually terrible at coding, but I can write a small patch. Yep. I learned that in Gentoo, not in LFS, but it's just quite a weird thing to be able to do and not be able to code. Do you know what I it would be uh kind of

hilarious if you did at some point just as like a joke stream um taking it completely seriously like not even acknowledging anything's wrong just randomly just throw ubuntu in there just we're gonna do an ubuntu install stream on like regular hardware just act as if this is like nothing out of the ordinary maybe it's like an april fool stream or something like that just just for the sake of it oh that is brilliant i know most most of my people are watching it that i see any issue so i'll have to i'll have to hope they're not remember this one but that is a good idea maybe go for a windows one as well oh yeah no No, just do like BSD or something. Like do open BSD.

I can't do BSD. I like the program. I like the devs, the people I speak to. But BSD has got this really strange issue of being just so close to Linux that it frustrates me that when there's a small little change, I'm just like, well, why isn't it working i but because i keep trying to do it the next way i know it's a me issue but to be honest they probably love that so i'll probably have more issues than on that than i will in anything else i ever do they seem to like me failing more than they actually succeeded the

the from what i can tell the bsd people are a lot like the LFS people, where there are so few people that care that anybody that does, they're like, oh my god, he's actually using it. What is crazy? I don't know, maybe because people see you on YouTube, but I'll speak

to the devs on people like that most of the time. They're just normal people that you'd see in any other community, I'll find. They always help you. Obviously the devs are but like you you run into like the fanatics of any community who like like because they are so they're you know gen 2 is it's fair like it does have its its community but it's a very you know small community relative to like you know most of the other distros out there so i've noticed that whenever i do anything involving gen 2 there will always be those people that really love gen 2 who are like he's actually talking about it he's giving the attention to gen

2 yeah no that's true i say it's kind of weird for me because obviously i remember when gen 2 was as popular as arches nowadays so it's kind of hard for me to see that flip switch make sense in my head. But yeah, that does make sense. Yeah, Arch, I think a big part of the popularity is just the popularity it has amongst the Linux YouTubers. Yeah.

It's a very easy distro to do. If you want something powerful and don't really want to learn too much, I'm not trying to say that horribly to any Arch user, but it's just so easy. You don't have want to learn um too much i'm not trying to say that horribly to any arch user but it's just so easy you don't have to bother you know a you are it's got you covered yeah it is easy yeah yeah i said i had my daughter when she was nine i gave her her first laptop and i said you can have it if you can install arch on it i mean it's not difficult to install and obviously that was before arch install even existed yeah yeah but it does make

me laugh every time i read a comment about someone saying how difficult it is and i'm sitting there going my kid don't even know you know much more than how to use tiktok on her phone at you know how old she is now but back at nine she can install arch Linux it's like it's not that difficult if you want to get involved and you want to learn it's easy i think the thing now is it's not that difficult. If you want to get involved and you want to learn, it's easy. I think the thing now is, it's not that it's difficult now. It's just when everything else is so easy, your perception of what is difficult, if you've not seen what it originally was, is, you know, it's very shifted in one direction.

Like when the most difficult thing is you know installing gen 2 It's not like you know your ISP doesn't work with Linux like the challenges that exist now are far less so the baseline is far higher, but people are The worst problem that someone is gonna have is the worst problem that someone's is the worst problem that someone is going to have is the worst problem that someone's is the worst thing they've seen is the worst thing they've seen basically so if they've never seen how bad it can be like it they don't know that it could be worse i think it's more um we get a perception of how difficult something's going to be and we give up before we've even tried because we think

it's going to be something right you know using gen 2 for the thing everyone we've all got the meme and we're like oh the gentle user will be as soon as it's finished compiling but you know you know even as a gentle user i play along with that one but really it's fast as anything you know um yeah it's not as quick as installing something on arch but it's you know it's only like five ten minutes waiting. You're not waiting there all day like we say you are. But people won't use it because they think, oh, actually it takes 38 days to do Rust like my stream showed.

You know, so sometimes it's more, I think, we've got an idea in our head and we believe that rather than actually go and try it. But like you said, try something in the VM. See what you think about it. It only takes a second to get QEM to work and have a little play. You get stuck as well.

The first time I did Arch, it was in a VM and good thing I did that because I did make it... I think I made a position mistake and things didn't boot. That's pretty much the only... I would say when it comes to installing arch i think petitions petitions are probably the one thing you can actually do wrong that's going to stop your system booting the rest of it is just forgetting commands

yeah i think that's it. We all forget it. I did the Pentium 3, and even to this day, I'm supposed to know what I'm doing. Set the kernel up, rebooted it, and I forgot to put network drivers in it. Normally it wouldn't be a bother, but it takes a day to compile the kernel on that machine, so that was

a lengthy mistake. But that's it. It's usually the mistakes that you forgot to do along the way, and not reading something or misreading something. But it's worse blaming yourself than someone else, isn't it? Exactly, yeah. Well, it's your system. You've got to take responsibility for it.

You've got to realize what mistake that you made. There's no point sitting there. Most of the time, the mistake that was done is your mistake it wasn't a bug with the distro there are cases where it can be like with where arch and still would crash from the wrong text being entered but most of the time if something's wrong it's not a problem with the distro no but they're great when you find the ones that are they're my favorite times yeah especially if you get to fix it that's one of the even better things and something that they help with you in the gen 2 community is if you've got an interest they'll show you how to fix that

properly and submit the patch yourself to fix it for everyone oh wow which uh is really good i've got a few few changes out there that fixes things um i've got a couple of changes in the handbook as well. So yeah, if you want to get involved in stuff like that, there is definitely people out there to help take your skill level further than what you know already. It does definitely,

from what you're saying, it does definitely seem like a very welcoming community. Yeah. It's one of the few that if you don't like it when people are being horrible to another person, we'd call that person out rather than... Obviously, if you deserve it, then maybe it'll be a different story.

Sure, sure. There's always going to be that. But generally, you know, if you're nice, we're nice too, isn't it? We don't care who you are what you are it's you know we're all there to learn and love linux so i completely blanked that this happens sometimes um so going forward do do you have any, any specific plans with what you want to do, Gentooon? Do you, are you just like sort of winging it at this point?

What's, what's going on? Uh, well, so I've got a few projects in the line at the moment. So I've got the, uh, Risk 5 with the, uh, Arc 64, which is quite fun. What else have I got? I've got the PS2 second build to do. And what was the other one I've got? I think that's the only two I've got at the moment. I mean, most of the stuff I'd like to do,

it's just too expensive. Like, I'd love to get an Itanium system, but it doesn't work very well under Linux and I can't spend two grand on a system to go and buy one on something that may never work, but I'd love to fix that and do that as a string because it might get dropped from Gen to itself

if no one goes out and actually does it. Other than that, I'd just be winging it along um people usually just give me video suggestions um let's say so it'll probably be things like carrying on the the get to build which is building gen 2 from um gen 2 from uh get sources only and stuff like that um just doing random things as one project stalls, move on to the next one, you know? And then as that problem gets solved, fix the one before. I did think about doing an LFS stream on the Nintendo Wii,

just for the meme. I was going to ask you if you were going to do LFS at some point. I wasn't going to suggest Nintendo Wii, but sure. I don't really want to do it because it's boring, but I did say if I ever got to affiliate on Twitch that I'd do it, thinking I'd never get there because, you know, I'm just an idiot

installing Gentoo on something. It's going to have to happen one day. I'm going to have to do it, but it's going to be a lot of alcohol involved to get me through that one. See, the problem with LFS, unlike Gen 2, is actually maybe on the way you'd be fine because of how long it's going to take,

but there are just so many individual packages that you need to do. You don't just have the package manager be like, go install the base system. Yeah. So, you know, you're going to be like, okay, time to do tar tar time to do this time to do that but on the wii it should still take long enough between the packages where you don't need to pay that much attention that's probably true and i could probably just do one one package a day do it as a thing so it might be better because obviously your turn is to do it in uh qem

um and just emulate a power pc processor and do it that way that's quite fast um that's how i do most of my clang testing anyway but yeah the problem i might do on the way again soon it's just for the fun but there's so much gentoo stuff to do that i haven't got time to get around to it the problem i had with doing it on my system is i like you know when it comes to the small packages i didn't even have enough time to go and like you know i thought you had uh a couple of streams where you're just playing was it harry potter on the game boy or whatever game boy advance was it yeah uh that and some other games that some people suggest but But like, when you're

doing it on modern hardware and you're dealing with those small packages, it's like three seconds to compile some of them. So you just don't even have the ability, unless you're doing compiling the kernel, you just don't even have the ability to go and you know, not go insane and do something else. Just disable

KVM. That makes it go slow. You've seen this speeds with KVM disabled. It's a nightmare. What happened? So, as an example, I tried doing Rust when KVM was broken on a setting I was using. It took three days to compile it.

Once KVM got fixed on an update and I re-enabled it, it took 20 minutes. That's the difference in the I.O. speed that you can get from it. Right. Okay. That can give you some time to go and play some games while you're waiting. Mmm, that's fair.

But then I have to be there for another month or two. Yeah, it's fun though, isn't it? I don't think it is. No, it's not. It's not. There's nothing fun about doing LFS. Sorry to the Lfs people out there i know i know there's some people out there that love lfs but like it's just not for me that's what i'm trying to say but i do think it'll be fun on a way just give it that little edge to make it exciting

because it won't be so clear-cut there's still some issues where i don't think the power pc god's been updated for a few years so i mean i could always do the playstation 2 just to make it even more fun oh my god that's could you imagine that that would be awesome i yeah i guess it would be awesome that's one way to put it, yeah. It would take longer than I'm allowed to do, but... But people love it.

I don't understand it. Like, I left Rust running for 38 days, and there were people watching it. Like, I don't know if people just like watching anything nowadays or what, but they come. I think there's this weird fascination in the linux space for just seeing code compile i don't get it i don't think i ever will but i guess on hardware like that it's going so slow that anytime anything happens it's exciting to be though, it seems to work with normies as well.

I've had many a date where people accidentally left a screen on and they come past and ask me what it is. And I'm like, how do you explain this without sounding weird? But they seem to enjoy it, so it works. Dating tips for nerds out there as well. Just compile Chenty on a Wii. Honestly, I had to try and explain cross-compiling to someone that's never

used a computer outside of web browser before. I had to try and explain it as a translator speaking another language to a person. Mm-hmm. I can see the challenge there, yeah. Yeah, but it worked. I've been at some event, we've got a passionate subject, but you've got to try and make it

understandable to people that don't like what we like. Right, right. That makes sense. But, yeah. I thought you had something else to say there. No, no. I just got a bad sore back then. Oh, okay. Well,

I think we've pretty much covered everything I want to cover, and we're coming up to the two-hour mark, so I guess we can just end it there. Yeah. Let the people know where they can find you and what you have coming up soon. Okay, so you can probably find me on YouTube.

I think it's imaloism on there, coming up soon. Okay, so you can probably find me on YouTube. I think it's imiloism on there, and it's also twitch.tv forward slash imiloism. I also hang out on the Gentoo and Discord servers if you need any help with your systems, come and say hi

if you ever need any help. Oh, as for things coming up, just some more gentle and the most craziest things you can think of. What are you working on right now? At the moment, I've got the Ox64, which is a

16 megabit RISC-V device, and PlayStation 2, and I think that's the two I'm working on at the moment. And eventually that video. I'm sorry, I think that's the two I'm working on at the moment. And eventually that video. I'm sorry, I got the, yeah, and the Git 2 project, which is the Gen 2 from LiveE builds, which is basically just bleeding edges you can get Linux to run.

So it's, you know, as the developer uploads the config, that's what we're compiling. I'm sure that one's a little bit rough. Actually, it worked a lot better than I thought. I thought it would be bad. Out of the whole system, only 19 packages didn't work. And I managed to get four of them fixed. So there's only whatever's left of that to get working.

But it's quite interesting doing that um and it's like then you've got a real bleeding experience though if you like the bleeding edge software come and come and join that one bleeding edge for a couple of hours until someone uploads a new package and then yeah and then try it all over again exactly yeah yeah yeah um so that everything for you then uh yeah there is cool um thanks for having me um as for me the main channel brodie robertson do linux videos there six days a week uh gaming channel brodie on games uh youtube and twitch and then if you're listening to the audio version of this the video version is available on youtube at tech over t and the audio version you can find

any podcast platform just search Tech Over Tea you'll find it. There's an RSS feed. Stick in your favourite app and you're basically good to go. Do you have any final words for the people? Install Gen 2 every day. Sure.

See you guys later. Thanks.