Tech Over Tea - He's Building An Indie Console | Ship

Episode Date: January 23, 2026

You may be aware of the way Valve is doing with the Steam Machine but that's not the only project going on out there and Cubix is building there own independent device. ==========Support The Channel==========► Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/brodierobertson► Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/BrodieRobertsonVideo► Amazon USA: https://amzn.to/3d5gykF► Other Methods: https://cointr.ee/brodierobertson==========Guest Links==========Website: https://cubixdev.org==========Support The Show==========► Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/brodierobertson► Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/BrodieRobertsonVideo► Amazon USA: https://amzn.to/3d5gykF► Other Methods: https://cointr.ee/brodierobertson=========Video Platforms==========🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBq5p-xOla8xhnrbhu8AIAg=========Audio Release=========🎵 RSS: https://anchor.fm/s/149fd51c/podcast/rss🎵 Apple Podcast:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tech-over-tea/id1501727953🎵 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3IfFpfzlLo7OPsEnl4gbdM🎵 Google Podcast: https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy8xNDlmZDUxYy9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw==🎵 Anchor: https://anchor.fm/tech-over-tea==========Social Media==========🎤 Discord:https://discord.gg/PkMRVn9🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/TechOverTeaShow📷 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/techovertea/🌐 Mastodon:https://mastodon.social/web/accounts/1093345==========Credits==========🎨 Channel Art:All my art has was created by Supercozmanhttps://twitter.com/Supercozmanhttps://www.instagram.com/supercozman_draws/DISCLOSURE: Wherever possible I use referral links, which means if you click one of the links in this video or description and make a purchase we may receive a small commission or other compensation.

Good morning, good day, and good evening. I'm as well as your host, Rudy Robertson. And today, I got an email kind of out of nowhere to talk about what we're talking about today. So how about you introduce yourself and we'll just go from there? Hi, I'm Gabriel Thompson, founder and we've software engineer at Cubington Entertainment. and we're kind of working on building a new gaming console. So I've been watching Brody for a couple years. In fact, actually, I found his channel while I was doing research.

And I was talking about it with some of my team. And they were like, oh yeah, you should email him and see if he would be willing to talk about it. So that's how we got here. Okay. That's as good a way as any. Usually I'm reaching out of people. So it's actually nice to, it's nice to not have to go and email him myself. Um, I guess where do we even start with this? Because, you know, you have kind of a lofty goal here. There have been people in the past that have tried to make consoles when they are not one of, you know, the big company's already doing so. Your Sony, your Microsoft, your Nintendo. So I guess what is the vision and we'll go from there?

Um, so our primary goal. When we started the project was we just wanted to, you know, build a cool little thing. And then as, you know, people started coming up to us, they kind of asked us to do more and more with the project. So we kind of ended up kind of primarily focusing on just building an indie gaming platform. So focusing on not necessarily, you know, bringing in a bunch of AAA developers because that is a very difficult task when nobody really knows who you are. So focusing on talking to indie developers, people who, you know, are going to be a little more open to working with us and then trying our best to build the best platform for them. That way we can kind of isolate ourselves from everybody else instead of, you know, having to compete with these, you know, multi-million dollar budgets. So how long has the project been in progress for?

So the project started... So we started working on what is now the console about four years ago. But then it wasn't really a console. It was more of just a launcher. I worked with a bunch of people. When we were working in the Scratch community, you were working on building just a scratch game launcher. And people came up to us and were like, hey, we want to put like this game on here. And you guys should, you know, work on building this and this.

So for about two years that we were. kind of just working on that launcher and then somebody came up to us and was like, hey, you guys should turn this into like a proper project. And so they sent us like a really very great 3D model of what it would look like. And it kind of just hyped up everybody on the team to be like, oh yeah, this is what we should do. And so about 2023, that's when we really started getting organized and started working on what we have now. And what is it that you have now? What is the state of things? So, well, you can't see because it's like cut off, but I have a prototype that is built with mostly PC parts.

That's pretty much what we have right now. But most of the work is like on the software end because I'm, my job is to write software, but, you know, there are other people that work on the design hardware of the console. So in fact, actually, I. I just got this prototype back because I was at school and I came home a couple days ago and they dropped this off because they heard that I was on the show. So there. Uh-huh. Yeah, so this is pretty much all we have for right now, but we're trying to get into contact with manufacturers kind of trying to turn this into what it should actually look like. which it's going to look pretty similar to what I have right now.

But, you know, obviously it's a prototype. So, you know, it's like PC parts that's in there right now. So trying to get in contact with manufacturers to put in some more sophisticated parts, probably get a little bit more performance out of it, things like that. So you said you're mainly on the software side. So I think we'll focus on that for now. And then we'll talk about some of the other side. stuff afterwards. On the software side, what is powering this? Like how, how does this thing do

things? So pretty much my idea was one of my models is don't reinvent the wheel, just improve it. So I kind of looked at the tech that's behind some of the other systems and went, how can I do that, but not make it take seven years to build? And so one thing, some, I found is that a lot of consoles kind of base their systems off of other Unix operating systems. So me, being familiar with Linux already, it was pretty much a no-brainer. I'm like, all right, instead of trying to write my own kernel, you base it off of the Linux kernel and then change the parts that I need to change. So we're using Linux kernel, and then I'm building the tools on top of it.

So a custom compositor, a kind of replacement for SystemD. that is a little bit more lightweight, writing kind of lower level rendering things, tools, putting it all together in a library that developers can use without needing to change the engine that they're writing. So it's mostly trying to write everything that I need to write without rewriting the whole system. And how far along is the software side right now?

So... So we have the system. Do you rewrite? That's the latest project that started not too long ago, probably about a month ago. So that is like, it's in the testing phase. There's a demo of it working, but it hasn't been fully tested yet. So still, you know, working out those. Disco just slightly disconnected.

Are we good? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Should be? Okay. Just a brief hitch. Yeah, so with the system, D-R-

Discord. Fine? Okay, it disconnected again. Discord, it's time to lock in. You can't be doing this. Okay. I think we're fine this time. Discord.

Are you okay? We love it. My favorite platform. Anyway. Really? No. Anyway, go on. But, yeah, so the system D rewrite,

mostly the focus has, been trying to make the system boot quickly and avoiding, basically, bloating it up when it first starts. So things like device rules and, you know, custom services, those aren't implemented because the idea is that everything will be implemented in the actual in its system itself. Then we're also writing like an MDEV drop-in replacement that's supposed to basically know what devices are already going to be present. And then, um, Start those first. And then after the console has started up, then it'll look for any other devices that are connected, like controllers, external keyboards, that type of stuff.

The compositor was called Islands. That has been the one that has easily taken the most time. I've probably written it four or five times by now. But that is the most, obviously the furthest along since it's been in development, probably the longest. The main thing about that is kind of making it function similar to how a regular desktop environment is, but then not adding, again, a lot of the extra features that we don't need. So things like X support, you know, it doesn't have cursor out the box, which actually makes a lot of rendering things easier, workspaces, things that we don't necessarily need.

And kind of just focusing on making everything. compact. That way we can save storage, especially because nowadays, games are getting very big. So that's the compositor. And then the main big focus is that our development library, Live Finite, we started development for it properly, probably in April or May. And that is getting close to version one. Main focus was basically just implementing Vulcan rappers, kind of trying to make it so that more developers will be inclined to use Vulcan

because Vulcan is very, very complicated, as I learned starting that project. I went into it thinking, oh, people say it's difficult, but they said it was like 900 lines to draw a triangle, but it can't be that bad. And then I spent a month learning how to draw that triangle. So definitely wanted to make it so that the library makes Vulcan not as scary.

Our idea is basically kind of provide default. So, you know, you start, like if you're trying to write this triangle example, we have it compacted where if you're using pure defaults, you can do it in about 200 lines, which is a lot better than, you know, the 900,000 lines it requires normally. And our idea is kind of making it so that all the functions have implied behaviors and then if you want something specific you can actually write your own version of that that specific function and it'll still work with everything else so for example if you want to add

custom attributes to your render pass but you don't want to have to you know rewrite the whole rendering chain you can just write a custom render pass and then put it in the mainstruck and it will still work with everything else so that library has been definitely a lot of learning process, but I think that it has been honestly the most beneficial to going into a project like this, especially with, you know, not the experience that a lot of other companies have, you know, especially considering, you know, they've got all these people working on it. It's really right now, software side. It's just me and one other person.

So taking the time to really understand the tools that you want other people to use is definitely been very helpful in, you know, starting to help other developers. when they're asking questions about, you know, the tools, then you can actually answer them, you know, you can help build the best experience possible for them. So it sounds like this Lib Finite project is probably the largest endeavor onto itself. Because like the compositor, yes, the compositor is massive, but that's a pretty well-tread path.

Yeah, Compositor, I was very grateful that projects like sway, ADWO roots, even Hyperland exist because at least, you know, when I'm confused on something, I can look, okay, how did they do it? And then, you know, you can kind of reference off with that. Writing the lip finite has literally been my process was, okay, I want to add this feature. I'm going to write this feature, make sure it works, and then go back and make it so that I don't have to do this again. Like, for example, when I was learning Vulcan, I learned how to make the triangle. And then I'm like, okay, how could I make this easier? So I've basically made so many rapper functions.

Like the Vulcan API in the project by itself is probably like too big. But it made it so that when I went back, because my, like I said, I started, I learned how to make the triangle. Then, you know, rewrote everything in like rappers and stuff like that. And then wrote the triangle again. And when I wrote it again, it was just, I was very happy with how it turned out because it just, it just, made everything so much easier. So that's pretty much been the process of getting things in there. So it definitely takes a lot longer than, you know, just if I were to just write the triangle by itself, for example, because it's a lot of trial and error. And that's the biggest thing. Making it so that,

you know, when you write something that it doesn't just work here, but then you recompile it and it works on another system. It works when, you know, you send it to the other developer and they test it out. then they're going to tell you, oh, hey, you're missing this. And then also focusing, especially because everything's written in C, making sure there aren't, you know, dangling pointers, random data leaks, stuff like that, because that can really hurt. Especially when it comes to linking Wayland and Vulcan together,

I did not know that it is a very dangerous mixture because one wrong thing and the whole window crashes. So it was, yeah, there's a lot of trial and error, especially with that library because you're trying to make it not just work on the console but also be a tool that any developer can pick up and easily use. So definitely the most difficult task.

Are you concerned that this aspect of the project is going to become too big to manage? Honestly, a little bit, just a tiny bit, which is why as soon as we started it, our other developers, like, yeah, this got to be an open source project.

There's no way we can maintain this by ourselves. So making sure that that tool is open source, which in itself is very helpful because then you're not spending all your time, you know, testing, going in, looking at bugs. You can have other people in the community actually be like, hey, this is wrong, especially because, you know, it's not in version one yet.

So having people that can provide insight while you're working on something else, you know, contribute to things that need to be worked on and stuff like that. Well, we're still working on core features that need to be inside the library. So I'm a little concerned, especially if it gets to a point where, like, there are more people using it and there aren't a lot of maintainers for the project because then obviously it becomes a lot of work to, make sure that it stays up. But I'm relatively confident that as long as we keep it at a point where there

are enough people working on maintaining it, and obviously as we kind of get other projects out of the way, there'll be more time and resources allocated to maintaining the library. So it's just about getting it out of the early stages. And then once it's kind of there, we'll be a little more confident in its maintainability. what is it not being in the early stages look like what state would you want that to be in by that point so right now the main things that work Vulcan

Cairo basically you're able to draw graphics on the screen to a Wayland window with Cairo there's some early sound API that just interacts with also by itself instead of using like pulse wire or something like that there is we're working on basically basic overlays that you can apply. So using the layer shell

protocol from WLR, you're able to basically show little pop-ups on the screen and things like that. So that's what's mostly done, but there's a lot of other things that are going into it. Being able to read and interact with data on the console, but obviously not being able to write to anywhere from a game. that's very important in maintaining security, interacting with the actual API on our website, being able to, you know, for example, get account information or look at people's avatars or

see their friends, see who's online, that type of thing. And then also just minor things that people have asked for. Like, for example, like I said, we started out in the Scratch community. So a lot of some of the people that were there since 2021, they've been asked for, hey, when can I use this in scratch? Which that's definitely a project on its own that needs to be worked on. So multiple implementations, not just in C, so that it, again, opens a tool to more developers. So if I have to estimate, I think it's about 40, 50% of the way there. But it's a lot of small things that need to be worked out to get to that goal.

The small things are where you start to see... the slowdown because it's... Yeah. Once you've done all the big low-hanging fruit, then it's the, hey, this should kind of work the way I expect it to. Why isn't it doing that?

What am I missing here? And those are the harder problems to solve. Yeah. Especially when it comes to expected behavior, because when you have people, especially game developers, as with most people, when you get used to a tool,

have an expectation of all tools are going to work like this. Like, I'm sure you've tried using, like, for example, if you're familiar with Premiere Pro, you tried using DaVinci Resolve, and you are completely lost because those two softers, they are not in any way similar. But expected behavior is a big, big problem when it comes to building something like this. So that's one of the things that definitely, I'm glad it's open source, because you can kind of get feedback from other people and how they expect it to work.

And then they can kind of contribute adding, hey, this should do this. So here's an extra function that should be able to do that. And as long as everything follows the spec, it stays maintainable because obviously, you know, you don't have functions that are relying on a single P&G being present in order to work. So, yeah. I think the small things are a problem, but they shouldn't become, they're going to slow down the project, but it shouldn't be a, oh, we can't finish the project because there's just one teeny tiny thing that needs to be fixed. So going back to the compositor aspect, like, why are you building a custom compositor?

Why isn't something that's already out there suitable for what you're doing? Why take on this massive endeavor? Well, the three big reasons why I wanted to write our own compositor was, first of all, I wanted to actually learn the tools that we're using. Like, it's all great to be like, hey, we're using, for example, sway in the background. But then when it comes to being like, hey, this window is, for whatever reason, slowing down, you want to take a look at it, we can be like, you know, using another tool, you kind of have to rely on everyone else who's already worked. on that product to be like, oh, we need to fix this very specific use case that only happens on that system. And then it becomes, you know, a stream management problem because, you know, there are problems that you need to pull from upstream. But at the same time, you know,

you have your own fixes that need to be pulled in. So it becomes, as far as my experience, it becomes a management nightmare, especially at a project of this scale. So writing our own compositor not only makes it easier to understand the tools we're using, but also lets us, Let's us pick and choose what we want to implement. Instead of having, you know, a lot of mainstream compositors, they kind of just implement everything. Sure. Because, you know, they're built for mainstream purposes. Yeah, exactly.

So our thing with the composite is, well, we only need these specific features. So let's write a compositor that only focuses on making those specific features the best possible. So those, that was the biggest thing. And then also my idea was implement. parts of the UI into the composite itself. That way you're kind of writing less conflict in code because the compositor, for example, when it starts, it's able to go ahead and start the setup menu

or the main menu depending on if their settings already set. So it's able to kind of accomplish more without relying on, oh, the init system needs to know when the compositor started. The compiler can just go ahead and start whatever software needs to be started as soon as it's available. So tightly coupling shell components

into the compositor rather than having them be, you know, external modules like you would have for like a sway, for example, where sway doesn't have its own built-in bar, it's a third-party thing you run. Yeah, exactly. Things like that. And it just makes management easier

because, for example, how it's set up right now, like all the graphical stuff It's just in one big repo. And you can, for example, compositor, and then, hey, I need to work on the setup menu. But I need to make sure the set up menu works with the compositor. I can build the compositor and the setup menu at basically the same time. And it makes everything easier to manage on that level. So with this being a Linux powered box and you want it to be this indie focus machine,

is the intention, like what, like, what's the intention with the games here? Is it just running existing games through Proton? Is it trying to bring devs to the platform? Like, what's the goal here? Our goal is to bring developers to the platform. Not really focused right now on bringing devs exclusively to the platform, but encouraging them to, you know, try our platform out, come over here and, you know, see what it's like to develop on another platform.

them, especially because a lot of devs, you know, they want to build for all of these big console markets. But obviously the problem becomes, you know, these devs, you know, they usually have to pay licensing fees. You've got to get your game reviewed. It's all these things. It's a month-on-month process. And then after you do all of that, then you still have to port your game over, and that's more work. So our goal is kind of encouraged developers to, what's the word, embrace, I guess, the system. system early. That way, you know, you're building your game for PC, for example. But now, you know, obviously you have PC players or you have players on Linux that want to play your game. Now, instead of just, you know, trying to build for this Uber generalized platform and, you know, worry about like security, anti-chi, all of that stuff, building for us platform that's very specifically built to run your game on Linux. I think it's going to be a very, you

tool for just developers in general. So we really do want to bring developers onto the platform. And then we can always focus on, you know, exclusivity later. Bringing developers to a new platform is a very complicated challenge. And it's something that previous projects have tried to do. What is the... And maybe this isn't your area expertise, but what is the... What is the approach that's going to be taken here?

So far, like you are right. It's not exactly my area of expertise, but I'm kind of going off of how it's been done in the past, at least for how we've brought developers on in the past. A lot of people, you kind of tell them about the project, and then you let them, you know, find out more about it on their own. And then they kind of, at least some developers, they'll kind of express interest.

still ask you questions. And then it's just about focusing on what is it that we can do for you to make the process of coming here as easy as possible. So, for example, we have this one developer that has been working on a game for like three years. And they were like, I want to, I'm interested in coming over here. But, you know, I don't want to have to change my game engine, you know, rewrite everything in order for my game to work.

So we kind of are. are working on how can we make it as easy as possible for them to bring their game over here and not have to basically restart their whole project, especially because porting to console is always something developers put at the back of their mind. They build the game and then we worry about porting later. So definitely trying to kind of just let developers know who we are and then do their own looking into, is this a platform that could possibly possibly, be something we're interested in.

Okay. Well, all of this software stuff sounds like there's a lot of work to be done. How long do you anticipate that side to take? In a perfect world, it would be done tomorrow. Chill, chill. It really depends on how the next couple of months go. It can either be done on a good side. A lot of the preliminary work can be done as soon as summer of next year,

getting everything to version one and that type of stuff. But it's really going to be based off of how the inner tools, like basically that library and then the system D rewrite, those are going to be the two deciding factors on how long this is going to take because everything kind of revolves around those two. If we can get that system D system working as it needs to, you know, having to rewrite everything every two weeks, it will definitely take a lot less time.

And then the library, getting it to the version one is going to speed up the process a lot. that library in writing other things, which also makes it easier to maintain because you're actively using the library yourself. So that library getting in version one, which my goal is to get it there again by summer next year, if I can get it there by that time, then we can be looking at everything software-wise,

for the most part, being done before the end of next year. So once you've got the software side done, like the software side is just one aspect of this, obviously the actual machine itself is very important. How, like obviously making something physical is going to cost money. How is that going to be handled? Is there going to be some sort of Indiegogo, some sort of fundraiser? How are you going to get the money to actually produce this machine? So right now, we're going to talk to the manufacturers to kind of know what the price is going to be.

It's going to need to be some basic work that needs to be done to kind of get our prototype to a point where it can be manufactured. So the idea is that especially early stages looking into things like Kickstarter, Indigo go, kind of seeing what the number needs to be. That way we can plan out what we end up using. But it's definitely going to be some sort of pre-order system that we can see, all right, how many units can we get people to be interested into getting? And then figuring out what needs to be done,

especially if there's like a gap between what we raise and what we need, figuring out where we can get that money, whether it be through loans, grants, whatever it need be. So that's sort of down the line still. It's just a matter of working out what it's going to cost and then that's a future problem.

Yeah. Because, yeah, I had to bring that up because it is a very important problem, right? Like building anything is going, it's going to be a difficult process. Like, finding the manufacturer is one thing and then actually

you know, paying them, yeah. them to do this stuff. Yeah. Definitely, money is definitely a limiting factor. Especially, because, you know, you don't have the millions of dollars that, you know, a lot of big companies have. So the other thing is making sure that everything is at a point where it doesn't need to be done multiple times over. Getting it to as close to production as possible.

That way, when you're going into production, it's not, oh, there's this massive problem. And we have to start completely over from the beginning. That's something we want to avoid, just kind of why we're still. making sure that everything is trying to get things as close to how it's going to be in production. That way, we can avoid problems. Well, the problems that can be avoided, no matter what you do, there's going to be, there's going to be things that you can't account for. You can deal with as much stuff beforehand.

Just any sort of project you're involved in, whether it be software, a hardware, something unexpected will happen. So, I guess, we kind of touched in this before, but where did the idea of actually going all in and making a console come from? Because there's one thing to start from wanting to run games and other platforms and expand it out from there, but that leap from a software project into a full-on hardware

project. Like that's that's a really big leap to make. Yeah. And um it definitely was a big leap for a lot of staff members when you know they were we were talking about it and it was kind of brought up kind of half as a joke. And then it kind of became a oh, we're going to commit to the bit type of thing. So, um, a lot of people were surprised, but they were very excited to work on something like this. I kind of always wanted to, you know, be in the console market for a while. Back in, we did like a project where you had to, like, build a product, and my product was a new Sega gaming console. And that was kind of where the idea was first born in my head. So when everybody kind of brought it up and they were like, yeah, this is something that could be done. And, you know,

it kind of got into the talking conversation that we could actually do this. this and then before you know it you know we're doing research for like okay is it possible and once we kind of saw that you know it wasn't an impossible task you know it became something that we really wanted to do and then it also helped that um the gaming market was doing a lot of very bad things at the time like um this is when a lot of people were complaining about um anti consumer uh is Wow. Anti-consumerism, especially with, you know, Battle Passes. Overwatch 2 had just came out and that was, oh, yeah, that was a big piece of it because they were like, I can't believe this is really where gaming is. And so it was those little things that would be keep that would keep happening that kind of encouraged us to be like, hey, we should really actually do this.

especially because the PS5 and series X had came out not too long ago complaints about oh PlayStation has no games Xbox is leaving the market it really just felt like

you know Nintendo was carrying everything at the time so we were like okay it can be done if we go in you know we have a great product it can be something that can you know not just be a one-off thing it can be a proper company something that you can

actually maintain for a while. And, you know, as we're developing, you know, things happen. Like, we were, in fact, we were all together when the Switch 2 Direct happened because we were like, oh, you know, Nintendo's going to drop this new console. This could be big. And then that whole direct, I'm watching looking for the price tag. And it was never there. So I'm like, oh, that's new.

And then I go on Twitter and I see people talking about $500 for the fund. and our marketing guy, he was right next and he was like, so it's definitely the little things that have happened in the market that have kind of been the big push towards doing it. Because otherwise I feel like, you know, if everything was all perfect, you know, I feel like we probably would have given up on the product a while ago, especially because there's a lot of work that goes into, you know, even getting it where it is right now.

So I think having the belief that if we do this, this is going to be something that people will actually benefit from. That's kind of been the biggest motivation to keep going with the project. And it's definitely probably the biggest source of why we even started in the first place. Yeah, there's a lot of things you can be said about the gaming industry right now. I think the indie space is basically, Indies and Double A is basically the only space where I feel like they're still making games. Yeah. Yeah. That's a big part of it.

Actually, even when we started our launcher platform, our biggest thing was, hey, if you're going to come on here, your game needs to look like you actually are making a game. Like, we don't want to see this two-hour movie where all it is is, you know, the same games that we've been playing all this time. We want to see something unique. we want to see you guys try something new. So seeing the indie market, especially how it's been doing recently, it makes me very happy to see that.

There are still people that want to make actual games and not just, you know, whatever the AAA's been putting out recently. Well, I think the problem with the AAAs is every single one of them thinks they're Kajima. And you're not Kajima. You're not Kajima. Leave the cinematic masterpiece to. Kudjima, he's got that.

I don't need everybody, you know, trying to make these hyper-realistic games, which even then, hyper-realistic games, I don't have anything against them. I think they can still be done well. It's just especially because, you know, everybody's jumping on the open-world trend and not everybody is putting, going all in with the open world. Like, if you say your game is open world, I better see, like, I'm playing this and I feel like I'm actually in the world. I don't want to go, you know, be in the world and it's just empty, you know.

Which you want to, when you're making a game, you know, a big part of it is making, I want to be able to feel like I'm there. Like, that's me. I'm not just controlling the character. I am, you know, the character themselves. So building, especially games like that, I just want to see people put effort into making it as good as possible. no I think we're on the exact same page here yeah I don't know I don't have anything against games

that have that art style the problem is a lot of them are game second and that's that's that's the main issue it's right it's like I want to I want to make it as realistic as possible I want to like every game

is basically a UE5 tech demo and I don't I don't need this for the UE5 tech demos UE5 is great, but like, I'd like to play a game, respectfully. Yeah, UE5, that's what came to mind, but nothing against UE5. I think you can still make great games with any engine. It's just, you know, we want to focus on something that I can play. So definitely have my gripes with AAA.

Also, another thing we had a problem with was the whole, it's been a problem for a while, but I feel like only recently has it really become a big problem with developers being less likely to, when they tell you, oh, yeah, you're buying the game, you're not really buying it, oh, we'll just take it away whenever we feel like it. Oh, you know, these live service games that don't really need to be live service. Like the first game that comes to mind is the crew, which went down not too long ago. And it's like, that game has a single player mode. why does it need to be online at all times?

You know, and those are the kind of things that I would like, yeah, no, we can't be making that the standard. Because if that's the future of gaming, you know, especially because games are getting more and more expensive. I mean, $60 used to be full price just five years. Oh, it's cool. People are talking about GTA 6. Oh, yeah, GTA 6 is probably going to be, yeah, it's $100. Yeah. I'm like, which, I mean, from what I've seen, I guess, if that's serious.

you're a game, I can understand. But like, if GTA6 can get away with $100, you know, AAA's, they're going to start pushing the price. So making it so that if I'm going to spend all that money, I need to be able to go back 20 years later and be like, oh, you remember that $100 game that I played? I'm going to play it real quick. And not, you know, oh, I'm sorry, the services are offline.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I'm, there was a big, trend during the early 2010s where a lot of games were just going online for... Diablo 3 I think about. Like, it's obviously there's

the multiplayer trade house component and obviously that has to be online. But if I'm just doing a single player stuff, there's no reason to be connected to a server. The logic was it's a way to detect people cheating

but like they're all... You can verify items when you can item when you go online, stuff like, like there are ways to get around this. And it's like, if you're playing a single player experience, cheating shouldn't really be that big of a problem. I mean, it's not like you're competing with other players in the single player environment. You're kind of just playing through the story. I mean, if I have cheated items, I guess, slashing shrug, I don't really know what the issue would be. It's one thing, you know, you're online playing with other people and people are hacking, you know?

Sure, sure. That's a problem. And obviously, if you're playing with other people, it's got to be online anyways. But single player experiences being on, like, internet connection at all time, I will never understand that. It never made sense to me. Yeah. That's why I dropped 2K because I wasn't even a big fan of spending all that money every year.

I wasn't even one of those people that, you know, you got to build. You know, I've got to spend $200. But once they said, oh, yeah, you can't play my career without online connection. And I was like, yeah, I'm good. You guys got that. Yeah, I'm, I think the last time I played a sports game, B4-07, maybe. It's been a while. Mm-mm.

That was, that was a nice time. It was before all the microtransactions stuff. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. I think the last. Discord is hitching again. Did we actually DC this time? Discord. Hello?

Hello? You might still be able to hear me, but I can't hear you. Oh, we good? Oh, there we go. Okay. It's, it's, it's, discord is being very, very, very, very rough today, isn't it? Yeah, struggling. It's okay.

It'll be okay tomorrow. EA's, uh, trying to hold us back. Yeah. Um, where we go? We kind of like sidetracked for a bit and we're just talking about triple A self. Yeah. Um, dang,

where were we? Um, I don't think we were anywhere. I think we're just complaining about FIFA and gaming. Yeah. So at this stage, have you,

like, shown off the machine anywhere? Have you taken it to any cons, things like that? Uh, yes, actually, we just came back from Pax West not too long ago.

Um, I wasn't there, uh, because I had school, but, um, some of our other team members, they took some days.

and they went to Seattle. We're based in Atlanta, so it was a whole thing trying to get them over there. It's a whole fiasco, and we almost didn't go. But things worked out. They were there. Everyone had a great time.

We got a lot of great feedback on what we need to work on next because we've got to have the console itself's prototype done, but it's doing things. Like, for example, we have this controller concept. where basically you're able to move the... It's pretty much a modular controller, but we're kind of working on making it so that you can change...

Oh, where to go? Oh, there you go. You can change... Basically, the D-pad and the joystick are one unit, and you can kind of take those out, swap them around, rotate them, that type of stuff. And then adding things like paddles in the bag, kind of making it so that the controller in itself

is like the definitive experience. like if you know you're getting the controller you know you're able to kind of customize it and make it how you want it to feel kind of that way it makes it so that you don't have to a lot of especially you know gamers they like to spend a lot of money on controllers um at least a couple people i know like our hardware guy he has like 40 different controllers and he uses a different controller depending on what game he pulls out his controller collection um even up here i think have three controllers oh no one's here but Yeah, I have

This one I just bought Nostwango Actually for the console I have the 360 controller I put it out And then I had another controller Up here What is this? I have the new Xbox controller

Oh yeah, yeah So Uh oh yeah Yeah So we like gamers We will spend money on controllers Because you know we want to be able to play games And it feels good

So making it so that You don't have to do that and you kind of just buy a controller and then you can, if you want specific things, you can kind of buy the $5 little piece that you need to put in it instead of buying a whole new controller. So it's

those little things like that, kind of trying to make the experience more than just oh, we play indie games on here. Right, right. Trying to provide some sort of value in the machine. Yeah. I have seen,

I know there are other controllers, on the market that have like swappable modules there's a friend of mine bought some random I don't know what it was called some random controller from Ali Express it's a

it's definitely a neat idea I feel like the main reason I don't know maybe maybe this is just me but I feel like the main reason I swap between controllers is mainly about the controller shape rather than just the the placement of where

the like sticks and buttons up maybe that's just me I think we were talking about earlier is that people want different shapes because the concept we have of our controller it's kind of similar to like this one

you know it's kind of straight but like some people were like oh we want like a more you know the handles going out a little bit more because it's all about you know what feels best in your hand So it's definitely been a challenge kind of making sure that the controller, especially if you're trying to make this, you know,

you're trying to make this, you know, definitive controller. Like you use this and this is the one that you definitely want to use for everything. Making it so that it actually works the way you wanted to is definitely been a challenge. But I'm trying to see what is it, how can we help as many people as possible with one controller design? And then kind of going from there. I hope the controller comes along the world It's always nice to have more competition in the controller market Because I feel like for a long time now

It was kind of dominated by Sony and Microsoft And the third party market just Up until I would say Mid to late PS4 The third party market was just not good Yeah And even now it's like

There are a couple of good third-party controllers. Like, the modular controller, the one that everyone brings up is the Thrustmaster, which I don't like how it feels personally, but I also see, you know, what some people see in it. But it's,

especially modular controllers have been something that I've seen more and more people would be interested in. So being able to say like, oh yeah, we thought of that a while ago. And it's something that people ask us a lot about because people are very, very, very, very picky about their controllers and I did not know that it was not

just me. Everybody kind of goes oh yeah, I need this, this and this in my controller. So the third party controller market has been very mid. There hasn't been that pop out controller that's just been everybody needs to get this

which I think even if this controller isn't the perfect experience my goal is kind of it encourages other people to go, hey, if they can make a controller, we can make a controller. too. Yeah, right now my go-to is the 8-bit dough controller.

The, what is it? The old... That's what this is? 8-bit dough. Ah, this is the ultimate 2 wireless controller, that one. The ultimate 2C

wireless controller? Yeah, whichever one it is. Something like that. This one is wired, but I know what you're talking about. I don't have it, but one of our other team members, they have this. Ah, yep, yep. Yeah. Aipiddo has been making some decent controllers recently.

My other thing is about making the controller affordable because we went to, in fact, we went to microcontroller, we went to MicroCenter Monday. Monday or Saturday. Well, today's Monday. So we went Saturday. And we went to like the hobby section. And we were just walking around. And I look inside of the little glass where they have all of the expensive stuff. And I see a pair of joycons.

and they're priced at $90 for those two little joycons. And I was like, I was paying $90 for joycons. Just regular one? No, like, yes, like regular, not even Switch 2, like regular Switch 1 Joycons, $90. I was like,

okay. My Joycons on my Switch are definitely broken and I will not be buying a new one because I don't have $90 to be spending on two little joycon. So making it so that the controller can be easily replaced because I know too many people that like they get a little too mad

at the game and you know the next thing you know the controller is in pieces. I should know because I'm definitely one of those people. But making it so that the controller can be easily replaced. It's not an expensive purchase. Trying to keep it under $70.

Like I don't, I've always been somebody that's like a controller should never cost more than a game. If I'm trying to buy a full price game and that's $60, I should needs to spend $90 on a controller. Like that just, for me, the math on that isn't that thing. Right, right, right. Yeah, no, I definitely feel the same way.

I think like the elite controllers are super cool, but they're just, they're out of the price range for most people. And if you price it like an elite controller, especially if you price it like an elite controller and then not have the features of that, it just doesn't make any sense then. Yeah, I feel like a lot of people, especially now, like people are a little bit more price sensitive. At least that's how it is in the U.S.

I hear a lot more complaints about when things are even just $5 more expensive than they were two years ago. So I think being aware of like, oh, people don't want to spend, you know, $90 on two pieces of plastic to control their games, you know. It's things like that just kind of making sure you don't price people out of your product, especially a product like this where, you know, it's already niche, you know, you don't want to make it so that people can't afford to buy your product. So it's, you know, focusing on making it affordable. Sure. Yeah, no, I can really agree. What is the, so you wanted to have this, like, module system.

What about, like, what else is going on with the controller? Is it going to have, like, TMR sticks like a lot of modern controllers do? is it going to, you mentioned the back paddles that you want to do? Like, what else about the controller? So we're still in the process of designing the controller. And our hardware guy was like, what do you want? And he had like a whole list of things that he was like, oh, yeah, we should do this, this, this, this.

And my thing was like, all right. So, you know, you know what our budget is. You know what our target is. So do the things that you think will make the controller worth the money that people are going to spend and then a little bit more. Like if you're going to make it, for example, let's say you want to price the controller at $40. You know, you add the basic controller features and then you add just a little bit extra. So, you know, you feel like you're getting more than what you paid for. Sure, sure.

So his thing, his first prototype that he sent to us was like a very bare bones controller. like I looked at the board and I'm like bro, this don't even go Halifax sensors. You know, you would talk about all these things you're going to add, bro. Like, it's okay to go a little bit overboard and then we can kind of trim down from there. So he's working on a updated design on the controller that is a little bit closer to what he had originally pitched. So waiting to hear on that. So I'm not really sure what he's going to do, but I kind of have an idea of what he had originally pitched. of what I'm going to get,

but I have to wait until he finishes that. He's kind of busy with another project right now, so... Sure, sure, sure. Waiting. So you've mentioned a couple other people working on the console. How many people are involved in this right now? All right, so, and our team is kind of divided up in, like, our development team and our support team.

So our development team, you know, those are like people working directly onto the console themselves. So having me have one. one other programmer that's mostly focusing on the UI and implementing the design files. One designer who he works on, you know, making the console look the way it does. And we have two hardware people. We have one of my friends from high school. He's the lead designer.

Oh, you cut out. Just there. Discord. Oh, no. Okay, we're good. Just repeat the last like five, ten seconds. So last thing I heard was someone from high school. Yes, a friend from high school.

And then he's the one that's in charge. And then we have another guy that we actually met when we went to Pax West. So he's the latest addition to the team. So it's those five. And then our support team, we have our marketing guy who has one other person that's working with him that mostly works on, you know,

you know, designing stuff for the social pitching us ideas of how we can push the console out. And then we have, Oh, we have our web development team as well. There are the people that just work on updating, upkeeping the website and the API, making sure that when things go down, that, you know, somebody's there to make sure that it doesn't stay down for two, three days that has happened in the past. So making sure that, you know, everything is kept up. So our team right now is very small.

It's like eight or nine people, if I remember correctly. And it's also kind of limited because a lot of people are in school right now. we only graduated this May so a lot of people very busy but um I also feel like keeping this team small has kind of also allowed us to make a little bit more progress because you know you're not dealing with oh this person wants to do this and this person wants to do that everybody's kind of on the same page so it makes development a little more streamlined so obviously you've talked about having to like fund the console is everyone just doing this right now

as like, because they believe in the vision? Is that basically where things are? Okay. Yeah. Which is going to make things challenging with how, depending on how long things end up taking, right? Because eventually, you know, money gets involved, jobs, stuff like that.

Which right now I'm grateful that we have people that are really not in it for the money. They kind of came here to, you know, work on the process. project and it's like, oh, if this becomes a, you know, biz money thing, then, you know, we can always commit to it full time. But I've kind of made it a thing where it's like, this is not a project that I expect you to like work all the time on, you know, obviously you have school. You have other things outside of this. So, you know, if you devote a couple hours to this every week or so, you know, that's good enough for me. Because, you know, I kind of, my, the software

stuff is kind of the stuff that's going to take the longest. So, you know, you know, Being able to be like, hey, yeah, we don't need you to work every single day. Well, you know, I can kind of be the one to dedicate the most amount of time to catching up the software to where everyone else is. That's kind of been the way that we've been going recently. So it's not it's not too bad. It could be a little bit better. But where it is right now, as long as things keep going at the pace that we are, I don't think it will become a problem before money starts rolling. at least on paper.

I hope this project goes well because it sounds really cool, right? I wish you guys the best of luck because, as I said, this is like a very, a very lofty goal. And with that, obviously, we have to bring up

the fact that a few days ago, another machine was announced. And we can't talk about this. And by the time you guys are seeing this, there might be a few weeks. but we're recording this maybe two weeks, week and a half, whatever it is, after Valve, sort of shadow announced their steam machine. Shadow dropped it.

In fact, actually, the craziest thing happened. I was in the middle of class when it dropped and my phone rings. And I'm like, why is my phone ring? You know, normally people, the people who have my phone number know not to call me during this time. Right. So I look at my phone. I check my text messages. And word for word, this man, my marketing guy, messages me, guys, Cubics 9-11.

And I'm like, huh? And then he sends me a link to the announcement. And the very next thing I see in my server is, Steam has just hit the second tower, are we cooked? So I was like, oh, that's not a good thing. And so I couldn't really see the whole announcement, but I'm scrolling the page and I'm like, oh, what do you mean, Steam? A lot of people, when we went to Pax West, they were bringing up the Steam deck. And I was like, but guys, it's a Steam deck. It's not a, it's not a home console.

So that was kind of our line of defense. And then Steam drops at the time, we're like, oh, that's a gaming console. So we're like, somebody else was like, oh, look, the Gabe Cube, you know, how are you guys going to combat against this? But we sat down for about an hour. And once everybody's surprise was out the way, we kind of started looking at it with a clearer lens and went, oh, it's not really that scary. It's really a PC. And we were right because a couple of days later, Steve is kind of like, no, we're going to price this as a PC, not a console.

And it really, the way they advertised it even in the like announcement video, it's very clear that it was trying to be a PC that looks like a. console instead of a console. So we weren't as worried about it after we saw the full picture, but we're still keeping an eye on it. That's kind

of been our thing, even as we've been in development, it's kind of keeping an eye on what is going on on the market, because the easiest way to, you know, plan ahead is to know what's going on. So even like when the switch two was out, we were all together. That was when we were all, we had this teacher

that was letting us use their classroom. basically as a lab. So we were all, we had the screen on the wall, and we're all working and watching the switch direct at the same time. So we like to keep up with what's going on, and we react based on how everybody else is reacting. When I saw everyone like, oh, yeah, this is, this is the thing. And then Steam went, no, it's just, it's a PC, guys.

And that was a, that was a good feeling, because it definitely would not have been good for Steam. to release this Linux-based gaming console when we're working on a Linux-based gaming console. That would have been very, very bad. But it seems like, which I actually like what Steam is doing. I think that they're doing a lot of very good things for the market. And they're kind of the beloved third child of the gaming industry right now. So it's good to see that they're buying into what made the Steam Deck successful.

Because I actually really like the idea of the Steam Deck. And I like that competition is always good. And it was kind of bad seeing Nintendo just beat up on everybody, especially when the PS5, Xbox came out. It was like, oh, yeah, no, everybody's just going to Nintendo. So seeing a competitor, always a good sign. Is it a good sign for us? I don't know.

But we're not going to let it stop development. That's kind of what we all agreed on. We're not going to abandon the project because, you know, a bigger company is trying to do something. similar. Well, it should be kept in mind that when the steam machine comes out, it's not like, like, okay, were you watching when

the Steam Deck came out, and then a bunch of other companies started coming up with their own handhelds? So it's not like there's space in the market for only one device, especially when it is, like, a relatively like,

the Steam Deck especially was a relatively new concept, and there were devices before the Steam Deck, but it was still a market where people were experimenting with what with what makes the most sense and a

and like when it comes to like a console like PC the idea of a mini PC already does exist but most mini PCs are just fronting Windows or you've like the Mac Mini. The idea of a console like PC experience

is still a relatively unexplored territory. Yeah, definitely. And I feel like it's going to be about who is going to be putting out the best possible experience. Because as much as people are going to go and look at, oh, yeah, Steam made the Steam deck. So obviously it's going to be good. Our kind of thing was like, well, if the Steam deck doesn't deliver on everything that people have come to expect. And it's not even just about like, oh, what Steam is telling them, because people will build their own. own expectations as to what they're going to get. So building our system kind of has made us think a little bit more about what are people going to be expecting when they come into this system.

So whoever is it that builds the, especially if more companies start doing stuff like this, it's going to be who is building the best possible experience. So that's kind of been our focus. It's like, well, if Steam's going to do it, then we need to make sure that everything that we do is as great as it possibly can be. So at least when, you know, people bring it up, you know, it's as close as possible to what other companies are doing. So whilst you did say, you know, it's a PC, it's not a console, it is still operating in a very similar space. So yeah. How does, like, how does Cubics intend to differentiate itself? So when we were talking about it, we had a lot of different ideas as to what we could do.

Like, for example, there was a framework idea thrown out, like, oh, we could, you know, try and do like something like what framework is doing. But our main thing ended up being that if we're going to, you know, try and go all in on building this console, that we need to focus on the primary things that make us as different as possible. So that indie focus, building it with the customization in mind, those were like our two big things. Like these are the two biggest things about the castle that separate it from everything else. So our goal was like, okay, well, if Steam's going to make this at the time, we're like, oh, yeah, if Steam's going to make this GameCube too, you know, we're going to focus on building this indie friendly open platform that, you know, is encouraging. that has good consumer practices that focuses on, you know, building a customizable experience. So our goal was like, okay, we're going to keep doing the things that we were doing instead of,

you know, trying to course correct based off of what other people are trying to do in the market right now. Right. Okay. So what is that, I guess, I guess what is that entail? Like, what is, it, yeah, what, what are you actually going to be doing? If that makes sense. What do you mean? Maybe I'm phrasing that weirdly. So when you say you want it to be an indie friendly platform, an open platform, like what does that actually entail?

So in terms of the indie-friendly platform, we're trying to, like I mentioned earlier, You're focused primarily on showcasing indie creativity, bringing in a lot of indie developers, kind of showing off, you know, that side of the market. Our open platform, we're kind of trying to build it. I don't like saying, oh, it's going to be fully open source because that's not 100% true. And it's really hard to build a open source console like this. But making it so that as a developer, you're able to do all. a lot more with the system.

It's more than just, oh, you know, you put game on, you know, it turn on, you play game. Doing being able to do more with the system, offering, you know, kind of like if we're, if steam is building like the definitive PC environment, Argo would then be building the definitive console experience, you know, bringing things that from other, um, areas of gaming that people have wanted to see back and focusing on. making those as good as we can. So a lot of, in terms of openness, just being open to ideas that, you know,

people have tried in the past. And then also not being completely locked down to the point where like, you know, you can't know what's going on inside, on the internal ends of the console. Like I said, we already have our library open source. I intend to make the compositor open source at some point once that's finished, making it so that people can look at how it works and

at some point make modifications if that's something that, you know, people want to do. The customization focus has always been a part of the console as well. Like I already mentioned the modular controllers. We were talking earlier this week about basically making it so that you can take the top shell of the console off and put your own custom shell on there just so that, you know, you can make the console look the way that you want it to, as well as other things, like we've been talking about customizable UI, making it so that, for example, the main menu screen, you can kind to make it look different depending on what themes and things you have.

Actually, now that think about it, I haven't seen console themes since, like, 3DS. I don't know if PS5 has console. PS3 has them. Yeah, I know PS4 stripped them away and then five. they like for events maybe they'll give you something special yeah it's like hey here's the 30th anniversary of the PS1 he is a PS1 looking theme enjoy yeah yeah so definitely especially with our themes want to do like a community thing or like you anyone can make a theme and then share it with other people um which that's going to be a very interesting task we were talking

about that earlier this week about how we're going to implement it. But it's a lot of things that basically all wind down to how can we make this as great as possible without changing what we've been doing in the past. So, you know, focusing in on what we already have instead of, you know, trying to change everything to compete with Steam. Right. Okay. Okay. That makes sense. So let's say everything goes really well, production goes well, all the software stuff gets done. Long term, where do you want to be? Long term, we don't want this to be a one-off thing. At least I don't want it to be a one-off thing. I want to be able to have in the future like a proper line of systems that we're building.

So obviously we have infinite now. Our marketing guy has been talking about we need to build a, a, handheld console at some point, which I don't know about that, we'll see, but definitely keeping the building more. Like, we want to be in a point where, you know, next time, if we build a second console, you know, we don't start from scratch. We're able to, you know, use what we've already built to build a second system, and it will be better than the first, and kind of building ourselves as another player in the

market, if that makes sense. Right. I think a handheld would be very cool, but when you're in that area, you're well into the range of everything being on custom boards. Yeah, which there's already been talks about, oh, this needs a custom board to make it smaller. Because you can't really tell, like, from when I held it up earlier,

but it's like, I got to look at the specs of how big it is, but it is a very, it's very wide. How would you compare it to the size of like a PS5? If you held it up vertically, they're like about the same height, but width-wise, it's a little bit thicker. Where is the, you know, it's on my website. I look at that. But it's like, if I remember off the top of my head,

it's like 16 inches wide, which like, it's it's very long and our our the manufacturers we were talking about they were like oh yeah we can make it smaller if we put a custom board on there and our hardware guy you know he was big on oh yeah the custom board would be nice you know getting some getting it smaller so that we can kind of not have it um be this massive thing that you have to put into your house but because you know a lot of people are a lot of companies are going towards that oh we can kind of not have it um be this massive thing that you have to put into your house but because you know a lot of people are a lot of companies are going towards that oh we compacted it. We made it smaller. You know, um, you know, you can put on your desk and it stands and it stays there. Um, so that's definitely a talk to have been about with the custom boards. But also I feel like making a handle it is just a whole another,

whole other thing. Yeah. So there's a whole other. So, because at least when you're building a console, you can kind of base it off of like desktop environments you have you're, it's a lot easier to prototype because, you know, you can, you know, get the PC parts.

building a handheld, it's like, all right, if you're going to build a handheld, you need to start from the board. You've got to figure out, all right, what are we going to put on there first? And then once the board is built, then that's when you can actually start building software. Well, then you also have to start worrying, like, really, really worrying about power usage because batch your life becomes very important. Yeah. Yeah.

And also, you know, keeping it from, you know, burning up, making it feel like comfortable in your hands to hold. There's a lot of smaller things that go into building a handheld compared to building something like this, which was my reason why I was like, yeah, if we're going to start in the console market, start on something that is a lot easier to prototype, a lot easier to build that doesn't have all those very, you know, minute problems. Because especially with handheld, you know, again, one thing go wrong and, you know, now you have you have to start all over. You know, it's not like you can just go and buy, oh, I need to, you know, just replace the ramp. a part of the board. So, you know, you got to go get a whole new board. And the boards are not cheap. We have been making small boards for little things, like for the game cards, for example. And we've been using JLCPCB. And it was not cheap before. And then the tariffs started hitting.

And shipping that used to be like $60, which was already expensive, is now like $300. So it's not a cheap process to be making those little boards for even something as small as that. So not the handheld thing was just not something that was going to happen this early on. So you mentioned, did I hear you used correctly that you said game cards? Yes. We wanted to make it so that you could play on our digital library into like something that you can hold in your hand because I know there are a lot of people that enjoy like collecting things and some people just want to have, want to be able to hold their game.

in their hand, you know, especially if you're going to be spending a lot of money on that. So we had an idea. We had two different ideas of how we could do it. On one hand, we could make it where like the game cards are, you know, something that we make, you know, you can buy them at retailers, buy them on our website, and then you can have it come to your house or you can pick it up in a store or something like that. Kind of like how it is right now. But then, um, hardware guy pitched an idea where it's like, oh, well, you can buy the game digitally, and then you can buy blank game cards. And then you can, have the console put the game that you bought digitally on the card.

That makes it convenient for, you know, if you're somebody that doesn't want to go out, you know, you don't want to have to go to the store, way in line to buy the game, you still buy it on the console. But then if you still want to be able to hold it in your hand, you know, put it in the console, you know, you put whatever information it needs, and it can copy your game, and then the console knows, hey, this isn't a digital game anymore. This is a physical game that they put on a card.

Okay, okay. I think that's a cool idea. I think if you get to back up your games on a card and a cool idea, I think trying to enter the market of selling physical games, that's a much bigger endeavor, because this already feels like it's an area that is likely dying out within... I would be very surprised if the main version of the PS6 is not digital. I would be very surprised if they're heavily push going digital only.

Yeah, which is something I'm a little sad about because, I mean, some of my favorite games, I remember going into GameStop and buying it for the first time. But at the same time, I also understand exactly why, you know, people want to go digital. It's easier, it's cheaper, you know. Companies don't have to spend money, you know, making. Well, it was cheaper. It's cheaper for the companies. Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Like, you know, companies don't want to have to spend extra money. Oh, we're already making the game. And I would spend extra money, you know, making the whatever fees you got to pay to, you know, sell it in the store. So it makes sense why companies want to go digital. But at the same time, you know, not everybody is on board with the whole, I have to go onto your website, you know, give you my credit card information, login. Then I have to be online to open some of your games. Like what happened with Xbox fun with the whole, oh, you have to be online at all times, you know. people have people not everybody's going to be a big fan of stuff like that which um

is actually why i really like the idea of just being able to back up your games onto physical media because that way you kind of get the best of both worlds you know you aren't spending you know going to the store and being like yeah well i got to wait this game's not in stock oh companies don't want to spend that extra money especially when 80% of their sales are going to be digital anyways and you know you can still offer you know the digital physical experience to to users that you know really want that so with all of this being okay it's not entirely open source but a lot of it is open source

is the intention also to in places where you are making use of like regular open source components to contribute back up to these projects for sure um we've already been talking about a proper, one of the things that I've found out very quickly about when I was working on the compositor is that there is like no game pad documentation in terms of like how it'll work with Wayland. You kind of just have to write your own device drivers and hope and pray that it works. So that's probably one of the things I would love to work on is a proper game pad protocol. That way you can actually, the same way that you have keyboard, you have

pointer protocol, being able to have a actual game pad protocol where you can connect a controller and it can be read as either a sole input, whether it is you want to use the joystick as a mouse, that type of thing in order to make it easier to develop, especially because that game pad was a very limiting feature early on. And then I have to learn, you know, how to actually read the device itself because, you know, You can't just add, you know, a virtual gamepad, you know, because that doesn't exist. You know, you have to read it as a separate device on its own stream. So it was just, that's probably one of my biggest things.

Like if I contribute to open source, which I fully intend to do, that's definitely going to be on the list. Like, oh, yes, add a game pad protocol because that will help. If it helps me, I know it will help a lot of other people. But, yeah, just contributing to open source in general, because I feel like, like open source is kind of what allows projects like this to exist. Like especially if all these things are proprietary, then it's like, oh, you have to go out, you have to do all this additional research. And then you have to write basically everything yourself.

Being able to be like, okay, well, I only need to rewrite this and this. And but I need all these other tools. And I can just use those tools that already exist. That's a great thing to have. And I'm very glad that, you know, the open source community is at where it is right now. Because it could be a lot worse. Mm-hmm. So

what haven't we touched? We've touched on a lot of things already. Let's see. Have I missed anything on this list? Oh. Yeah, okay. Maybe it's kind of hard to say right now, but when is the intention

to have a product ready? And maybe it's too early to say right now. but I mean our target goal has been moving because as development as development goes on you know you run into problems you know you got to push back a little bit but um

my goal is to have everything done before the end of 2027 I'd like at the latest you know summer 20 winter 2027 whenever that is um because I'm I've kind of been convinced that the longer you wait to do something like this, somebody else is going to come in

and they're going to do it better than what, you know, you could have done. And then, you know, all these years of work is going to go to waste. So, but then it's also about, you know, I don't think that it's going to take, you know, an additional five or six years to finish what's already there, especially at the pace that we're working right now. So I would like to, you know, have everything gone within the next two years. shorter if possible shorter if possible okay

that's uh that's a stretch yeah yeah that sounds difficult it looks like 2027 probably going to be the year okay okay so

what I guess how far along do you want things to be by the time you actually have a product because obviously you're going to want to add to things after the fact, right? Yeah. But like what functionality do you 100% want to be there?

So obviously, a console needs to be able to work, you know, you need to be able to play games. You have to do that, obviously. I would like the modular controller to be available when you pre-order the console. Let's see. Being able to copy digital games to physically is probably going to be a later on thing because that's going to take a little bit of time, especially with getting that to work without people being able to copy the game a thousand times. And, you know, it's a piracy problem and stuff like that. So the core functionality, modular controller, probably the theme system.

definitely the themes and either are probably want to focus in on that meverse as platform

probably those four I'm sorry what I don't think we touch on that one I just I just was reminded about that that's actually an older project that we're not working on directly

it's someone else is developing it and then they're going to port that over it so they're working on kind of this social platform that's going to be included with the console that will allow you to basically communicate with other people

that are playing the same games as you. Pretty similar to what Nievers did but not on the massive scale kind of focusing on at least the prototypes have focused mostly on being able to communicate with other people communities, basically making it so that you can have

an integrated experience with the console, kind of like what Discord has done recently on console, but not as, not as, what's the word I want to use? I don't know. Kind of just not relying on external resources. Like, for example, you know,

from what I've experienced, you know, to use Discord on like PlayStation and Xbox, you kind of need to have your phone next to you in order to do things like join the voice call and stuff like that. So making it so that the concept we can kind of do that stuff on its own and then not need to, you know, be tied down by limitations of other platforms. So, but those four are definitely going to be the focuses going into finishing up development.

And then we can push out other features. during the console's lifespan and those can be more polished. It sounds like with the way the projects progressed so far, there has been some level of, let's say feature creep. And are you concerned that that gets too out of hand? Because yes, you want to get this done, you know, by 2027,

but if you have more cool ideas, you'd want to do more stuff. Like that date can very easily get pushed out even better. And our kind of way of doing this is, my focus right now is finishing the core functionality of the console. And that's the primary focus. If we get to that goal and the main thing that's done is the primary functionality of the console, that's going to be the thing that gets pushed out.

It's kind of like we're trying to set like, okay, this is the deadline, right? like this is this is what it's going to be there and then it's basically like okay what features are obviously console will be done and then it's like what extra features are ready that's pretty much what's going to be pushed out at that time and then whatever is not finished you know those can come at a later date um obviously there are a lot of ideas that are still being thrown around at this time because you know we haven't started developing them yet so you know people have ideas oh we want to do this we want to do that but it comes down to again we're true we're my goal is to hit that that target date. So making sure that if all else fails, you know,

possible is, you know, done, that version one can be, even if it's the main experience and the controller and then pushing everything else out at a later date. And obviously, as we get further in development, there'll be more talks about, all right, what is possible? What can we do? What can't we do? And, you know, we can trim it down. My always, whenever I talk about projects always go, well, if you're going to let, if you're going to have a scope creep problem, let it happen early on and then have an idea of this is when I want to have things done. And then from there, you can look at it and say, well, this is what we have. This is what we want to do.

And we can focus on what we have and kind of make sure that's clean first. And then we can do the what we want to do stuff as we go on. And it kind of also encourages us to keep developing on the console after it's finished. because, you know, all those ideas we have that we, you know, probably maybe didn't touch on, you know, now we can, now we have the time to, you know, start actually working on them. And even if they don't get finished for this system, those are ideas that can be carried over to if we build another one or, you know, additional things that we can work on in the future. So then you sort of branch out into ideas and then trim things back as you get closer to release. Yeah. And it also kind of works because my personal thing about, you know, developing product projects is I try to not talk about things like, oh, this is what we're working on today until they're at a point where I can be confident like, oh, yeah, this will be in the final product? Like people have access like, oh, will you have this feature that, you know, they may have seen us discussing in the server and we go, well, we're not sure yet.

You know, we got to get to that finish line first. So especially like with like prototypes or, you know, early design files, I kind of go, all right, well, let's hold off on like showing that off because like I mentioned earlier, you know, people come in with expectations. So if you show them like, oh, we have this and then they have the console and it doesn't have that, you know, they're going to be disappointed. Right, right, right. There are a lot of ideas, but it's about right now focusing on finishing the main product and then a couple of smaller. things that aren't going to be, you know, as big of a task to complete, especially like, for example, that social network, we're not developing it ourselves. It's kind of all we're doing is just making sure that it works. So it's kind of one of the smaller tasks that we have to worry

about. So it's something that isn't the focus right now, but could easily be picked up. And it's just a, you know, it's not a two-year project. It could be a two, three-month project at worse. So what's sort of a, I guess with it being early on, what sort of attention have you had? Because you mentioned you have the Discord server. How many people are really sort of paying attention right now? And obviously, this is well

before any, like, big marketing push has been done. Yeah. The Discord server right now is usually floating somewhere around 225 members, but most of the people, you know, being fans of some of the projects that have already expressed interest into the system.

There are a couple of early developers in here. But most of the people that are in here are, you know, just early supporters who are just interested. They've been keeping tabs on the project. Some of them have been here since, you know, the early days. So, and then there are other people outside of our server that are keeping track that have access questions. Like earlier today we talked with some people we met at Pax West. They were just asking on, oh, how's it going? You know, what's the project looking like?

Of course, like you mentioned, we're kind of early in. into the, you know, marketing phase. He haven't really pushed that much yet. But for what it is right now, I think I like the support we have. It's not a super high pressure where, you know, it's a lot of people and they're expecting, you know, something big. But it's enough people that, you know, you feel like, you know, the project is going to go somewhere.

So what is the, I know you said there's like a marketing guy, but like what is it, what is your understanding of the plan for like, getting eyes on to what's being done here? So if he talked to me a couple of days ago about what his next plan is, which is probably going to be some type of early Kickstarter and talking about, you know, the early parts of the project. So he wanted to do like some videos that talk about the main feature that we've already said, like, oh, these will be in the final.

product. These are things you can talk about. And so his idea, as of right now, is, you know, kind of focus in on, you know, talking about those things, talking to people, getting them to know who we are. That's kind of been our biggest thing. It's like,

okay, well, nobody really knows what we're doing, you know, getting people to know who we are. So reaching out, getting people to, you know, be interested in the project. That's kind of been his main thing. And his, those, the pitch that he sent, that's like, you know, the things that he's been are focusing on the most.

Okay. So that's like a, that's, that's a big endeavor unto itself. Like, getting, getting attention in the wave of other projects that exist out there. Like, you know, you got my attention. That's, that's something. I'm pretty easy to get, I'm really easy to get a hold of. As for other people, maybe it's a little bit more challenging. What's that?

Oh. The chair just made a very suspicious sound. Oh, that's not good. Yeah. It should be okay. I don't know why I did that. And then move the chair. Yeah.

Yeah. That's a... You work that problem out later. Yeah. Just don't need the chair falling apart on me, mid-pod. Yeah. No, that would make good content. That would make good content.

So... I guess with all of this, um, I don't know, like it, it sounds like, I've said a couple of times already. Like,

it sounds like a really cool project. I'm just, with it being so early on, with there not being like an actual product just yet, it's hard to really see how it all comes together. And I feel like from your perspective, there's probably some of that as well, where it's like,

I can see the thing that I am individually doing. And I can see what each of the, people and the team are doing, but it's still hard to see that, like, long-term, how this all fitting together and becoming something. Yeah, and it's, from where I stand, I feel like it's a lot more closer to where it needs to be than it looks at first glance, but it's a lot of, the individual pieces are almost at the point where you can start putting them together and seeing how it is. So from where I stand, like the console itself, their prototype is like 90% done.

There's like some changes that are going on right now to make it a little bit easier to manufacture, which is going to be a primary focus going into next year. But it's really going to be software side, you know, finishing up, getting everything to where that needs to be. And then once that system D rewrite is done, that's like going to be the point where everything can start being put together. Because once you have that in its system, then it can be, okay, well, you're not using, you know, some other OS to develop. Now you can start developing onto the system itself, which is what I've been doing using Linux Mint, which has been my go-toe development software development OS for the last couple years. but being able to get to that point where I can start, you know, putting the console SSD in the system and start using that to develop is going to be a big milestone. It's going to be the next step.

So I think really, once we get to that point, it's going to be a lot easier to see where the console is right now and, you know, how much work is left. So I guess going, I guess, outside of the project, What does your background look like? What does your development background look like? How did you sort of get to where you are now? I started, have a very interesting background because I started out in Roblox. I was doing Roblox games in 2019 when I started really getting into programming. And most of my work was like, once I actually started getting a hold of like, okay, I know.

kind of what I'm doing. A lot of my work was like, oh, people would bring me on to their project to fix things. Like, oh, I have this game that's written, but like there's a big, you know, glaring issue that needs to fix. And, you know, our scriptors, they're busy doing something else. Can you come in here and, like, look at it and see what's wrong? So a lot of my early work, once I, you know, finished working on, you know, learning the language was, well, I need to do this.

Like, people need me to help them fix their games. So that's kind of where my interest in game development really started to grow because I was like, okay, well, I see, you know, the common problems that developers ran into when they were making games during that time. And this was like pandemic era, like right after pandemic, it's probably like 20, 21, 22. When, you know, a lot of developers, they're still dipping their toes into Roblox and they're kind of seeing, okay, this could be a platform that I have a future on. you know they were a little bit more focused on building good games at the time um so it was an interesting experience getting to look at like how other people built their games and it kind of also

allowed me to see like okay this is what developers do especially indie developers because that's usually what's going to be on this platform at that time anyways so um 21 that was also when we started working on the launcher i was in i'd already been in the scratch community for a couple years, but I hadn't really developed anything. I was kind of just watching other people. So during that time, that's when I, you know, started learning languages. And for me, I kind of learned things as I pick up a new project, like, oh, I want to do this. So I learn, you know, whatever two languages or whatever go into that. So, um, about 21, 22, that's when I was, that was probably like my main years doing Roblox development, well also, you know, starting the project. And then

about 23, that's when, you know, we started really being like, okay, we're going to build this console. And I was starting to leave a Roblox development community because there was a lot of things going on with that. I had just finished building my own game. I had built a Sonic fan game at the time. I was like was finishing up development for where it was. So I was able to focus a little bit more on learning, doing the research into like, okay, what went into building the console and stuff like that. I was still doing like little side projects here and there, but my main focus, especially like going last year, going into this year, was definitely starting to really focus in on the console, learning C, learning all of the very little things that go into what makes a system work. So it's definitely been a lot of jumping around, changing projects here and there, but I'm glad to be where I am now where I can kind of say, all right, this is the one project. instead of having a bunch of side projects that I'm working on at the same time.

What are Roblox games written in? Lua. Oh, okay. Roblox has their own expanded version of Lua called Lua. It functions pretty much the same, but it adds, obviously they have their own API that's built into it as well. But it's more focused on connections. So bringing in, being able to handle 50, 7,500 players in the game. players in the same server at the same time without, you know, the performance drops, which

will still be there, but they're not as as bad as they were. So you did lure, scratch, and now you've made your way into doing Vulcan and C development. Yeah, I did a lot of other things out of that. I picked up TypeScript somewhere in between there. I did Python for a little bit because Pete had a commission to make a Discord button, and I to learn how to do that. And I did that. I touched Rust for a little bit because people were, this was during that time when everyone was swearing by Rust, Rust is the future. I don't know how I felt about it. It was it was a learning curve and it was not a learning curve I was interested in

doing at the time. So I didn't really do too much of it. I touched Godot for a little bit because I wanted to learn how that platform worked. So I've been jumping around a lot of different languages, platforms, and things like that. So it's good to be working on something that I can say like, okay, this is my thing. What is

what has that shift being like for you? That going from these relatively high-level languages to you know, working at the level you're at now? It was a learning curve. Definitely going from

Lua to see it wasn't as bad. I had already done Java because I had taken some classes where, you know, they used Java. And I was not a very big fan of it. That public static void mainstream arcs will always be stuck in my head. I did not like my time with Java, but that also opened me up to lower level languages at the same time. And it kind of interested me because I'm like, if why my question was always, why is Java was so complex. And then I started

looking into it and I'm like, well, there are other languages that kind of do similar things to what Java does, obviously without the object-oriented programming, but C was kind of the one that caught my attention because I'm like, okay, this looks like something that I could actually do. So

going from, going into C, I kind of started out just like reading documentation. I was on W3 schools, which was the go back when I started doing web development. But going through and just like reading like, okay, this is how this works. And then just starting making like smaller projects to start.

It kind of helped me get a little adjusted to what it's like to program and see. Because especially when I first started, I had like no clue what I was doing. I was like, okay, well, I'm going to take what I know from my other languages and kind of apply them here. But, you know, not everything that you've been doing this whole time applies and see. like once you tell me like, oh wait, I can't make a variable that's a string and then turn it to numbers later. Especially like, oh, well, I made a string that's five. What do you mean five plus five is not going to throw an error? You know, things like that.

But once you, once I started getting used to it, it really wasn't a big shift. It was kind of just, oh, you learn it and then everything kind of just clicks. Right, right, right. Yeah, I think a lot of people, they look at a language. like C as if it's this like mystical other creation where

like you're not learning everything at once right like you're you're picking up pieces as you need to use them you try to do something it doesn't work like okay how do I do this you learn that thing and it's like building brick upon brick

yeah that was exactly how it is at C especially because you know see looks like it's this super complicated language until you pick it up and then it's really not for me i like languages that do exactly what they say they do like you know you look at the code and it does what it says and see for me felt the most like i'm looking at the code and i understand exactly what it's doing especially when i like with java or like if i look at something like c sharp my thing is like there's a lot of extra stuff that doesn't need to be there.

Like I should, especially like with Java, you know, like system. Dot out. Printline. Why is there, what is system? What do, why I have to say dot out? Like, why can't I just say print? But, you know, see, you know, you print in, you put in the, um, whatever, I forgot the name of the header. You put in.

And then you just say print F and it prints. You know, it's a very, you look at it and it makes sense. And I think that was a big thing for me. It says, you know, you look at the language and it kind of, it looks similar to other things you, seen and you don't have to learn everything right away like you know i i came in not really knowing what pointers are and those type of things so as i start you know learning and i see oh this little star

thing he's showing up everywhere and i look it up and there's pointers and then you start to understand you know those small things first you don't necessarily come in and immediately you know i'm an expert in pointers it kind of was a a process like okay you did this and then you know i you do it again somewhere else and it doesn't work and then you're confused why doesn't it work and then you kind of figure out okay you can do this but you can't do this and once you know it's a lot of trial and error and once you figure it out you know you feel a lot more confident in your ability to to do it and so especially with low-level languages I felt like C was the one where I went in and I was lost but I felt like I wasn't lost like I'm like in a maze and I'm like okay

this doesn't work let me go this way that was the kind of way it was compared to like learning Java, it was like, yeah, I have no clue what I'm doing. I got to pull up the documentations. I got to watch the videos, whatever. It was a lot more of a difficult process compared to C. So I enjoyed learning C and I'm still learning it obviously as I go because there are still things you'll run into and it's like hmm, what's this? And it's a lot of, you know, looking at how other people write their code as well to kind of pick up, you know, patterns that happen in other API. So it also helps that, you know, Linux isn't C. So, you know, if all fails, you can always

look at the documentation itself and it will tell you. The other thing with learning brick by brick is as you learn other things, other, like other things that might be similar tend to click a lot easier. So you might have seen something that kind of looks like what you're trying to do, but it's not exactly the same. But because you have that sort of, I guess, base background knowledge. it makes that next thing you're trying to learn even easier. Especially, like I said, picking up the patterns. That's like the biggest thing.

Once you see like, okay, people tend to do this, then you look at other code and you're like, hey, I've seen that before. And that makes learning really any language, but especially a language like C where it's just so mainstream, it makes it a lot easier to learn. Yeah, you have a lot of examples of good C code. Yeah. Whereas if you were to pick up a language,

language like, I don't know, um, D, for example, uh, there's, there's, there's projects out there.

There's just not many. I mean, it's the same thing like when you pick up a project like this. Like, you know, you're trying to build, for example, uh,

with Wayland, oh, you're trying to build like a little game. You know, you want to draw a window. Oh, there's already, you know,

things that people have done before. But the moment you start getting into like the specifics, like, oh, um, I need to do this very specific thing. Like, layer shell,

when I first started it was like the most confusing thing I had ever seen. I was so confused. I'm so lost. But it's like, oh, well, you know, they already did it. And they already did it. So you can look at their code and go, all right, they did these things. But I don't need this, but I don't need that. So then it becomes a little bit easier to look into the code.

You can kind of dissect it a little bit and, you know, play around and see what works and what does it. One thing I will say is you have taken on a fairly large project. fairly early into learning to program. Like, getting involved in something like you're doing now, you know, isn't usually something people do five, six years into programming? Yeah, that's true. A lot of people tend to spend a little bit more time. Like, in fact, one person was really like, oh yeah, you should go work at like another

one of these companies, you know, figure out how they do it. And then when you build your thing, you know, you can come back 15 years later knowing exactly everything but for me i was like well that's one way i could do it but i feel like i enjoy projects more when i'm fully in control of how it goes like if i'm the one if i can be like hey i really want to work on this one thing today that's like my this is what i want to work on today being able to control like what i work on and what i'm learning at one time is kind of the way that I feel most motivated to work

on a project, especially something like this where it's like, if you don't have the passion for it, you're going to have a very hard time doing it because it's a very time-consuming project. Especially like when I started to work on that library, they're like, I'm staying up

three, four in the morning reading documentation and then going to bed and waking up again and like 9, 10 and being like, all right, back to work. You know, so that's something that not everybody could do. And it's just one of those things with like, if you don't love what you're doing, you're going to have a very hard time. So for me, that's pretty much me with any programming project, like especially being this early on in my career. It's like, if I'm going to do something big like this,

I need to be fully involved, fully enjoy what I'm doing, which I do. So I think that's like a big help, especially with like any project. It's just, oh, if you're enjoying it, you know, you don't really care that, you know, you've got to spend all this time, you know, reading docs and that type of stuff. And it makes the learning process feel more rewarding because you're building the things that you want to build. Okay. Do you think there's anything we haven't really touched on that is important to mention? It's a good question. Let me look.

I feel like we've touched on a lot of the important parts of the console itself. and what we're trying to do. I'm sure I'm probably forgetting something, and I'll remember, you know, you're taking a shower, and you'd be like, dang, we should have talked about that. But in terms of the project itself, I like to think that where it is right now,

I think we're moving at a good pace. I think that as long as everything stays somewhat consistent, especially as, you know, right now, winter breaks about a start so I think we're going to get a lot more work done going into j December December is always a very busy month in terms of getting things done and it's just keeping and making sure everybody's still on the same page on like what we want to do those type of things once those are together and I think within the next couple of months I'm going to be able to really say all right we're like getting there you know like

you can really see how much work has actually been done. Because right now, like I said, everything's being built separately. The pieces are being built apart. Right, right. Once the parts are started to put together, you can start to see the full picture. And I think that that's going to be, it's going to be look very good when we get there. I'm very happy with the, I think I'm going to be happy with how the project turns out. I'm very happy with what I have so far.

So thankfully, as I'm learning more, I don't have to rewrite projects. four or five times like I did with the compositor. Like the system D rewrite, I have written it one time and it works mostly. It's just the tiny little thing they need to fix and I don't think I'm going to rewrite that one. That's a little bit too much work

for me at this time. But I feel like as long as we stay on track, we should be in a good spot and I think you'll be hearing more about when we're finishing up in the next couple of months. I think it'll be very good. okay

if you want to check out the project keep an eye on it where can they go so everything is on

everything I've talked about today minus a few things is on our website at cubic dev org but on the

website you can also find our Discord server honestly and if you really want to know exactly what's going

on day to day that's the place you want to go the Discord server because we talk about you know we'll ask

people for their opinions on things. We try to, you know, show off things that are being worked on. It's going to be a lot more frequent updates. And it's going to be one-on-one conversations with us because we like to talk about what we're working on. But you can also see when we have bigger things to show on our YouTube, Instagram, Twitter, which are all on the website as well at QEX devs on everything. But we look forward to sharing a lot more about what we're working on in the

the near future, because it's going to be, right now, my thing is that it's been a lot of the boring stuff. Once the boring stuff is out the way, then it's going to be a lot more exciting announcements. We'll get to talk a little bit more about what games are going to be on here and that type of stuff. Those are things people want to see. So I look forward to talking more about what we're working on, on our socials, on our Discord server, all that type of stuff.

Awesome. Um, do you have anything that's like close to being wrapped up that you kind of want to mention or nothing that's close to, you know, being in a fun state to talk about yet? A lot of the UI stuff is like getting there. It's pretty much mostly done. Our UI guy, he's finished a lot of the implementations of things. So I made a demo of a scroll wheel that I wrote. Like I was in a Discord call with everyone else and we were like, all right, we're going to write the scroll wheel demo today. So it was stuff like that.

I think the most interesting thing that we have shown so far was definitely the whole, okay, here's what the menu and stuff looks like right now, which we showed at Pax West. I think a lot of people were very impressed that we actually got that far because people had been hearing like, oh, you're working on this. But they hadn't really seen any exact looks as to what we have. So I think that was a fun experience, especially because I built some of that stuff on live with other people. So there isn't a one thing that I can be like, okay, this is the one thing. if I had to make a five-minute video, this is what I show.

But I think that very soon I'll have something very good to show. So once that's done, people will see it. Any other links you want to mention? Or you pretty much got everything down? Yeah, everything is on the website. So it's kubics devout work. Okay. That's where you'll find everything.

Yeah, I'll leave all that stuff linked down below. If there's anything else that you want me to include, feel free to just send me a message afterwards and I'm happy to include it in the description. Yeah. Okay, I'll do my outro and then we will sign off. Okay. Okay.

My main channel is Brodie Robertson. I do Linux videos there six days a week. Sometimes I stream as well. The gaming channel is Brody on games. Right now I'm playing through... I might have finished Yaku's a six by now and Silk Song, which is very fun. Very much enjoying that.

And if you're watching the video version of this, you can find the audio version of basically every podcast platform at Tech Over T, the video version YouTube Tech Over T. I'll give you the final word. How do you want to sign us off? I think I'll sign us off as I do with some of my other content. It's been great being here with you guys. And hopefully I'll see you very, very soon.

Awesome.