Tech Over Tea - I Caught A Wild Linux From Scratch User | Zeckma

Episode Date: May 17, 2024

Ages back I did a Linux From Scratch series, since then it has fascinated me and today we're talking to someone who actually daily drives Linux From Scratch on there main computer and even games on it. ==========Support The Channel========== ► Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/brodierobertson ► Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/BrodieRobertsonVideo ► Amazon USA: https://amzn.to/3d5gykF ► Other Methods: https://cointr.ee/brodierobertson ==========Guest Links========== YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@zeckma LFS Website: https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/ ==========Support The Show========== ► Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/brodierobertson ► Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/BrodieRobertsonVideo ► Amazon USA: https://amzn.to/3d5gykF ► Other Methods: https://cointr.ee/brodierobertson =========Video Platforms========== 🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBq5p-xOla8xhnrbhu8AIAg =========Audio Release========= 🎵 RSS: https://anchor.fm/s/149fd51c/podcast/rss 🎵 Apple Podcast:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tech-over-tea/id1501727953 🎵 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3IfFpfzlLo7OPsEnl4gbdM 🎵 Google Podcast: https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy8xNDlmZDUxYy9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw== 🎵 Anchor: https://anchor.fm/tech-over-tea ==========Social Media========== 🎤 Discord:https://discord.gg/PkMRVn9 🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/TechOverTeaShow 📷 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/techovertea/ 🌐 Mastodon:https://mastodon.social/web/accounts/1093345 ==========Credits========== 🎨 Channel Art: All my art has was created by Supercozman https://twitter.com/Supercozman https://www.instagram.com/supercozman_draws/ DISCLOSURE: Wherever possible I use referral links, which means if you click one of the links in this video or description and make a purchase we may receive a small commission or other compensation.

Good morning, good day, and good evening. I am, as always, your host, Brodie Robertson. This is episode 220 of Tech of a T, and today I found, I don't, I maybe not found, you showed it from my Discord, um, an LFS user in the wild, and when I found out this, I, uh, I had to drag them onto the show. Zecma welcome. How's it going? It's going pretty well, how about you? Yeah, not too bad not too bad I Been rebuilding my website today, so that's pretty much taking up a bit of time

I'm using Hugo and all like before I'd written in like plain HTML Which is not a good idea. Use a static site generator. It'll make your life a lot easier. That's always fun, using plain HTML. Yeah, it means whenever I want to add a new page, I need to manually add in the header and footer. So don't do that.

Just use a static site generator if you want to use HTML. It'll be much nicer. But we're not here to talk about my website. We're here to talk about LFS, which is... I don't know if you've... I don't know how long you've known about my channel, Force. Because I did do an LFS series a while back,

maybe a couple of years back. I didn't finish it though oh trust me trust me i watched all your streams by this point okay with uh all fast but yeah um i've um watched your content for probably about a year or maybe a little over a year by this point. Oh, so you went back and watched the earlier ones than if you saw the LFS stuff? Because I think it's been... Yeah. It's been longer than that, probably. It's been a while. Yeah, I definitely watched back and then I noticed a lot of pitfalls that you went in

and I'm like, holy crap, I went through these same pitfalls after the fact that I did my first installation. So I'm like, oh, God. Yeah. I think my favorite thing that I did completely wrong is this is why you make sure you always check your variables. I did a chmod and also make sure you do it in a virtual machine because I did a chmod, and also make sure you do it in a virtual machine, because I did a chmod, and I chmodded the root of my virtual machine, not the root of LFS. So, that caused issues. And the thing about me and LFS is I- I installed it about 10 plus times by this

point, I completely lost count, but I've only did one installation in a virtual machine and I couldn't even get it to boot. So that was fun. But it was more reliable to actually get it to boot on actual hardware. I assume you doing it on hardware isn't on, like, a... Like, when I say do it on a virtual machine, I mean, don't do it on, like, your production machine, right? If you're going to do it on hardware, that's fine,

but don't do it on, like, your actual machine that you intend to use unless you are willing to completely kill it. Well, you see, I'm literally, I'm literally running LFS on my gaming rig right now. So, I, okay. I, I need to ask, why, why are you doing the LFS thing? Before we get into anything else, just, just why? What's wrong with anything else? Just why? What's wrong with anything else?

Well, mostly the biggest reason is just because I love Linux and I think my affinity for Linux has gotten too far. Right. But another reason is just that it makes me feel yucky when there's software on my system that I haven't actually compiled besides, you know, the NVIDIA driver and Steam. But other than that, I want every system, not every system, but every software on my computer to be compiled by myself. Otherwise, I just feel yucky. Wait, so you're an NVIDIA LFS user. So, all of those people that complain about how difficult it is to install NVIDIA drivers on, like, a regular

system and have them work fine? You're doing on LFS? Oh, it's easy on LFS. Okay. It's- it's completely easy on LFS. There's no problem at all. Because with the NVIDIA driver, like many distros just ship a package and it has all the libraries, all the kernel driver that comes with it. And sometimes some actual utilities like NVIDIA settings. and sometimes some actual utilities like nvidia settings but on lfs you just go to the nvidia site you have a run file you run it with bash and just follow the prompts and bam you just have installed just like that very very very simple so you're not doing like any sort of package management then or do you have like a

like a a script you use for stuff like what when you're installing applications do you have a system for it or is it just your wing it basically i basically just follow the lfs and blfs guides and, and I diverge a little bit because there's a lot of packages on Beyond Linux from scratch that just are on there, like Steam and Wine, for example. But otherwise, I don't use a package manager. I just follow the guides. Hmm. Okay.

One thing you did touch on before was you don't like the idea of not having software you've compiled. Is it specifically compiling the software or is it not wanting to have additional software? Because obviously something like Gen 2, you could also do that, but there are going to be additional packages there that you don't really care about that might get added so is it specifically the um so yeah what's specifically about the lfs instead of something like gen 2 for example

well it is it is false because um because like um for i'm just going to point out arch because i think it's completely stupid how arch does it it just pulls in random dependencies that aren't even required and if you look on a lot of packages it says it depends on systemd but in reality it really doesn't it's just the way arch packages the software it makes it so it depends on systemd packages the software it makes it so it depends on systemd and so it's it just pulls in a lot of dependencies that i don't need with gen 2 um it also pulls in some dependencies but it's not as bad as arch so it's a matter of just having complete control over what's going to be pulled in you're only going to pull in the dependencies that actually are, like, hard dependencies, and obviously optional ones that you find useful, but if something doesn't have any place on your system,

then you're just not going to bother adding it, and basically it stops there. Yeah, or if I'm just completely lazy and I don't feel like compiling an extra package that day, which is sometimes a bad idea when you're compiling Firefox that has recommended dependencies, but you only have to install the required dependencies, but those recommended dependencies are for security and if you don't use those recommended dependencies then you will have kind of a worse experience with firefox overall because of worse security so what sort of hardware are you running on your system? Like what sort of compiled... Actually, answer that question, but also like a rough sort of case for compiling, you know, big applications like Firefox, the kernel, and then maybe some examples of smaller ones as well. maybe some examples of smaller ones as well. So, I'm just going to talk about my CPU.

It just has 12 threads on it. Okay. It's 6 cores. I think it's 6 cores and then 12 threads. As for compilation times, Firefox takes about

15 minutes. I noticed that GCC takes like 20 minutes. I think. So GCC ends up taking longer than Firefox to compile. What was your other question again? How long does the Linux kernel take?

It depends because the first compilation is of course the longest, but if you recompile the kernel, I noticed that it doesn't take as long even if you upgrade it still doesn't take as long as it did that very first time. So it really depends. I haven't compiled the kernel in a while and I should get on that, but yeah, it takes about 10 minutes.

Okay, okay. Hmm. So... It's not very long, but it doesn't take as long as Firefox. Right, right. So, you mentioned wanting to not have additional things that you just don't need,

but how much are you actually running on your system? Do you keep a fairly clean system? Do you have a bunch of extra things that you've added over the time you've been using the system? Do you keep a fairly clean system do you have a bunch of extra things that you've added over the time you've been using the system do you ever so often clean things out like because my system is a mess to say the least i i have a lot of things i've installed because when you have packages it's very easy to install things and just forget about them but I would imagine it's a lot easier to a lot easier to keep that in check when everything you add is an

additional thing you have to worry about compiling when you want to upgrade yeah I I think about it in terms of just what I need and what software I know I need to run or want to run. For example, like having Mupen 64 Plus on my system, I know I'm going to want that because I love playing Nintendo 64 games legally. So, yeah, I just have that on my system plus everything else but i don't really install extra packages except surf because i wanted to give that a try but installing the web gtk package was an absolute nightmare and i never want to do that again so now i just have those extra packages just laying on my system and i hate it but i know that it's there and i know that i installed it so i still i still have those packages in the back of my mind knowing hey i have these extra packages

but i don't need them. Right. So, the other part of that question was like, how much, how much do you think you really have installed on your system? If you were to look at it in the context of, like a regular systems package management, like, if you could estimate what that would look like,

it might be hard depending on like the context of the system, but if you can possibly give a number on that, I guess I would give some context on like how much you really have installed. Kind of like the package count that NeoFetch just dumps. Yeah, yeah. Um, let's see, LFS might have like, LFS might have like, um, I think it's like, uh, maybe 80 or 90 packages on BLFS might be like 200 maybe. Okay. 300. I guess we're gonna go in a ballpark of just having 400 packages

on my system i think that might be an accurate package count well obviously most things are not going to be like firefox right like most things you have are going to be things where they take maybe Most things you have are going to be things where they take maybe five, ten seconds, maybe a minute to compile at the worst. The projects like Firefox, like the kernel, those are very few and far between. Yeah, you went through the LFS process and a lot of the packages and the biggest chapter are just like configure, make, make install. Very simple instructions, very fast to compile, and you just keep on doing that until you kind of hit the end or have some big road bumps with big packages.

But otherwise, it's just very small packages that offer like wrappers for the C library or implementing protocols or stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. And so you just have all these tiny packages, but you have like about, let's say, 30 big packages. Yeah, you have the big things like completely tiny for example or whatever uh and it's just you end up using yeah um what init system are you using because i i know you mentioned art using just having systemd as a dependency so i'm assuming assuming that you don't use system d then yeah i use uh sysv in it okay okay what made you go down that round and says you oh sorry go on um just because it's like you you know about um sysv in it um where was i going with that scratch that that part where i was sorry i i redirected you a couple of times yeah the other part is um the the reason why i went with the sys v route is because it's just the other option with lfs you just have systemd and sysvnit and it's like oh sysvnit isn't systemd

then let's just go with sysvnit it's smaller I don't have to deal with ninja as much I can just compile sysvnit be done with it install boot scripts and be done with it right I do like that was part of your reason it's not system after it's not system d i don't know like system d works fine it's just that you know sysv in it is lighter that's fair and it gives more of a simplistic feeling to the system like you're back in the old days of linux where you're just using very old software and only like the the bare necessities to get stuff running and it boot booting off of a floppy disk yeah maybe booting off a cd uh booting off a CD. Booting off a floppy disk might be a bit of a challenge with any... If you have a kernel, it's not going to fit on the floppy disk anymore.

Hey, it's been done before. Yeah. But the end result isn't very flattering. Yeah. Yeah. Good luck with that with a modern modern software um yeah honestly fitting things onto a cd now it'd be hard sorry yeah yeah i could try it with lfs but it'd be pretty hard because you have to strip literally everything yeah because you just have all this

compilation software and extra packages that you just don't need yeah um i i don't think it's worth your time i think maybe focus on uh no it's not doing something well i going to say do something productive, but you're already using LFS, so you're... Like... Yeah, that chip is already sold. Yeah. Well, how long have you used LFS for? The better part of a year. Okay. um the better part of a year okay i thought it was actually over a year by this point

but it actually hasn't because i didn't install lfs on my gaming rig um after their release when it came out like right after it was actually like a month or two afterwards. And that's what surprised me. But yeah, it's only been a year by this point. Okay. How long have you used Linux for then? Let's see. I started in December of 2022. Hold up.

Hold up. Two years. Hold up! Hold up! Two years. Hold up! You went from using Linux in 2022 to running LFS a year later.

Not to mention that I installed LFS plenty of times starting in october of 2023 so it wasn't even like eight or nine months before i immediately went into the lfs rabbit hole and it's been like a like a few months afterwards then i started daily driving lfs but i've been big in lfs like even before i daily drived it if you could see my face right now and i could literally tell you the pipeline that i went for it's like please do you know garuda yes and it has like a dragonized version but also has um a bare bones version which is basically

just arch with garuda software on it yes so i i started with garuda the dragonized version for two weeks immediately jumped cell to the bare bones version and then i went on that for like three weeks then i immediately did an arch install and just daily drived arch for um probably as long until i actually started daily driving office but um then i went down the gen 2 and office rabbit holes in about like september or october right so about seven or seven to nine months after i switched from garuda over to arch uh-. And I've been daily driving of us for a year now.

And I have no plans on switching, by the way. I don't know where you would go if you switched. You go to Ubuntu next? Like, I... Temple OS. I'll just create my... I'll just create a new operating system.

Just, yeah yeah get your your Nvidia card might be a problem just start reverse engineering the drivers run TempleOS driver I'll become Terry A. Davis but without all the slurs

so how did you make your way onto linux like when yeah how because most people when they start using linux right let me let me it might be difficult for you because you became an lfs user within a year but most people will like you know mess around with Ubuntu and Fedora. One day they might get their way to like Arch and Gentoo. Like that's a normal like way that this goes. So how did you find yourself onto Linux? Like what originally drew you to it? So I was actually a big Windows power user

before I switched to Linux and you wouldn't even believe it, but I was like a big Windows Power user. I'm not surprised. I was legit pretentious in high school, being like, oh, when are you going to install Windows 11? Because I was in the Insiders uh um whatever program that microsoft does and i was like oh when are you gonna install windows 11 and i was like big into it and was running windows 11 until i noticed that um the cpu it was like i3 because i was using a crappy laptop at the time right but it was being throttled while i was just playing a basic 2d game called geometry dash and so i was dying

because of lag spikes i'm like i can't play gd with all these lag spikes i need a i need a downgrade because windows 11 is the issue and And when I downgraded, it immediately solved the problem. And so I'm like, you know, Windows 11 might actually be bad for performance. And so I continued being a Windows Power user until Microsoft started pushing all the um you know ads you know all about them and stuff like that and trying to push users to install windows 11 and i'm like this this is a problem and so i had a friend um who said hey um you know there's this thing called linux and you should give it a try at least and so i asked him well what distros and he said oh you can do mint you can also do garuda guru is pretty nice and so i'm like you know what let's go with garuda and so i just went with garuda then went down the rabbit hole

So I just went with Garuda, then went down the rabbit hole. Hmm. Because I just wanted to avoid having to switch to Microsoft Windows 11. You know, that's a fair argument. I can respect that. I kind of felt... I didn't start using Linux because of 11, but I didn't like 10 anyway. So it was just a matter of time. I actually was a macOS user for a very long time. I only started using Windows again because there was some specific Windows software I needed for my university class. And

specific Windows software I needed for like my university class and Yeah, and somehow I went from that to using Linux and going from needing software for a specific class to Intentionally going out of my way to find software that could do the same thing as what I needed in the class. So, hmm, I'm sure I probably could have stayed on Mac OS, but the hardware at that point was getting old, and I really didn't want to buy a new MacBook. That's the thing. Like, that's honestly one of the big reasons.

I did not have the money to buy a new MacBook. Yeah. I can't even relate to having even just a basic computer for a long time because the way, because my parents just didn't want to get a computer for me. And I just had to rely on like really crappy hardware and just have like a Kindle Fire, then upgrade to a phone when I was 13, which fair enough. But a lot of kids just have like a computer growing up and i just didn't have that privilege and so i just got a computer in 2020 and so i i literally only had computer hardware for four years now which is absolutely insane to me. And as soon as you got it, you got, like, very into messing with it? Very into it.

Did you have an interest in it, like, back when you had, like, very limited access to hardware? Or, like, what sort of spurred your interest there? Oh, I always wanted to get a computer just because, you know, all the YouTubers have, you know, computers and stuff and can run all this software that you can't. You just have a phone or have a Kindle Fire. And so you just like, for example, like Steam games like Gmod, for example, I always wanted to to play that but i just couldn't until i i got a computer and so that's what drew me in is just all the software that i can run and

how i could just edit videos much better create art better literally do everything i was doing but better you know yeah that's understandable i i get because i i was i i was editing on my phone using kind master and it was the most unbearable experience you can imagine it it it was terrible i do not recommend it yeah i don't get the whole phone video out of the thing like i there are people that are really good at it in a pinch yeah it's very clumsy it is very clumsy and the processing power of a phone is just it's terrible well i'm sure if you had like a high-end phone it would be different but if you're using commodity hardware like yeah it's not gonna be good if you're using high

if you're using high-end like phone hardware you might as well just get a computer that's true that's but i don't know you can just get like a hundred dollar you can just get like a hundred dollar phone and then get like a four hundred dollar like laptop or something you know and so spending a thousand dollars on an iphone and not be able to run as much software as you could on that four hundred dollar laptop that's true, yeah, that's true. Um, so you mentioned that, um, you mentioned that you're a Windows Power user, so like what were you doing on Windows? I was actually like developing, um, Windows software and I was messing around with learning DirectX. Okay okay and how to create windows

and create message boxes i was dealing with c plus plus which god i don't want to remember my memory so that was that was terrible um and um let's see i i wasn't messing with the command line at all because you know when when you're a windows user you don't want to mess with the command line at all because, you know, when you're a Windows user, you don't want to mess with the command line at all. That's just a worse way to do things. You just have all this gooey software that you can run. On Linux, though, it's completely the opposite where command line runs Keen, but the gui just is slower and sometimes even a worse experience but let's see what else on windows um yeah i was just messing with a lot the software and creating my own software and just really learning the ins and outs of Windows, but I never touched registry editor

Who would? Usually if you're gonna touch registry editor, it's because there's a specific setting that you want to disable that you found on some forum somewhere Besides that, like, you know, I'd rather not mess with it I'm sure I'm gonna break something yeah a hundred percent and from there you made your way onto onto Linux do you still like do development stuff on Linux or is it just keeping this LFS system alive keeping the LFS system alive is a good way to put it but yeah I've also I switched from C++ to C okay and I made my own game engine and see okay and i also um have min g w 64 builds because in order to compile wine

it depends on minji w64 to compile dol files but in order to compile minji w64 eating minji w64 Compile Minji WW64, EDA Minji WW64. So you kind of have to have like an already built software toolchain to compile another toolchain to compile line. Right, right. And so I also supply Minji WW64 builds. and otherwise i just kind of make my own scripts that are just like um give more life to my system like ffmpeg scripts you did mention the ffmpeg stuff before so i've joked about like recording videos and streaming with ffmpeg because you can do it. Like, FFmpeg is incredibly powerful and most people don't understand, like, what it can do. But you actually record stuff with FFmpeg.

A lot of software, like video editors on Linux, depend on FFmpeg to actually generate the final render. Yep, yep. And so if you can do that, then why not use it to record? I mean, OBS does depend on FFmpeg, or at least on libraries that FFmpeg supplies. And so it's like, if OBS can do it, why not just go straight to the source? And so you just use FFmpeg to record everything and sometimes stream and take screenshots. It's entirely possible, but it's also a headache to set up. Right.

Well, I'm sure, like, once you've got it set up, you're not going to be running you're not going to type the command out every time you just have like a script for it or an alias for it just to like you know get something done in the next hour but it's getting that first stage done

yeah with DWM I just have custom key binds and those custom keybinds just launch scripts that actually contain FFmpeg commands. And so that's just what I do. I just use keybinds, and if I wanted a monitor output, then I just go into a terminal and type in the script name and just do it that way. So if you're doing a screen recording with FFmpeg, what does

that command actually look like? How big is that command? Messy. That's what it looks like. If you can find the script, can you just... That's what it looks like. If you can find the script, can you just dump the script into Discord? Oh, yeah, totally.

Let's do that. Let's see. Yeah, we can just do the... I'm just gonna dump the ASCII text in the script file. I think that's gonna work... better. But generally, this is what it looks like right here. Jesus Christ. Okay.

Yeah. Some of it is setting up audio. Some of it is setting up the frame rate. Some of it is dealing with CUDA nonsense. And the rest of it is just formatting. Okay so for anyone just- Like audio and crap like that. Right right so for anyone just listening first line is setting up the file name the second line is the output directory then I don't even know how to explain it so there's setting

cuda in here setting the frame rate screen grab the resolution um linking pulse linking the microphone I don't even know what half the rest of this does so so I can explain it I don't even know what half the rest of this does.

So I can explain it. Do you want me to explain it? If you want to, sure. Go ahead. We can work our way through this. Okay. So you were right about the first part. So setting up CUDA as the hardware acceleration. Setting up the frame rate. Then setting up cuda as the hardware acceleration setting up the frame rate then setting up x11 grab as the basically taking the x11 output and taking it as an input to basically

record saying the resolution the thread q size is absolutely stupid i still don't know what it does but if you set it then it stops an ffmpeg warning um then you have then you just have pulse outputs or inputs like the microphone and the um stereo ah okay and then you um the filter complex and amex inputs is just to combine those two pulse audio inputs and merge it into basically one like concatting them. Right. Then you have making sure that the format is H.264 still using CUDA and the NVIDIA encoder. Mm-hmm. and the Nvidia encoder. And then the rest is just weird stuff that makes it work.

CRF is setting the quality and then Pix format, that's the pixel format. It's yeah, and then the G is just saying the final frame rate. I see. And then finally the output file.

This is ridiculous. I also use FFmpeg to take screenshots and stream. Streaming is an absolute nightmare with FFmpeg. It doesn't work half the time. Yeah, what does the streaming one look like? Because I've seen people try to stream with FFmpeg what is it doesn't work half the time yeah what does the streaming one look like because i i've seen people try to stream with ffmpeg and it usually doesn't go too well um technically it's so the thing is so the thing is it works for the first five minutes until it just crashes and i'm still trying to figure out why it's doing it i see i see so i'll just do this i made sure that um the script doesn't have any sensitive information

on it oh yeah in a sense of information is it's dependent on like, is a file in Etsy? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Just because of the stream key? Yeah. So with this script, it's just a variable. Okay, yeah, here we go. Okay, so a lot of this is similar, so frame rate, X11 grab, resolution, thread queue size, where's the new stuff?

Uh, the bitrate? So, the new stuff is the new stuff is basically just saying bitrates, dealing with the actual audio format. Otherwise, if you don't set up the audio format, then you can't stream to YouTube,

it just fails. With Twitch, you could probably not set it up, but it probably will still fail because probably the way of how RTMP handles things. But this is nonsense. Screenshots are actually a lot more simple because you don't have to depend on audio, it's just... I would imagine... Grab one frame of the X11 grab, input, and output it. Output a single frame as a PNG file.

Mm-hmm. Why? Why FFmpeg? why why ffm peg you know that's a good question i hate myself fair fair there are very lightweight tools you could use that could take screenshots and like to record video so basically the way this started is i wanted to compile obs sure the problem is that obs switched over to qd6 and doesn't allow qt5 builds anymore. And so I tried to compile QD6. It failed because FFmpeg nonsense

with libav or whatever it was. And so I just couldn't compile QD6. It just fell. And I couldn't diagnose the issue at all because I compiled FFmpeg normally so I didn't know what was the issue so I couldn't compile OBS

and so I was like you know what OBS uses FFmpeg why not just use FFmpeg and so that's why i now use it but with a new fresh installation i managed to compile qt6 i see but it's like why would i want to depend on obs and set up all this stuff when i already have the scripts on my system i see i see I see. I see. So now it's just... That's what you see here. So now it's just, it works, so why change it? Exactly, yeah. It works perfectly just fine, so it's just like...

Except the crashing. Why switch over? I still want to fix it and figure out what the issue is i just haven't yet i don't have an answer for you i don't know what i'm looking at i don't yeah i i don't know the answer either. I tried messing with the script a few times, but it just ended up the same, so I'm just like, eh, we'll figure it out later. Right.

So, obviously you're on X11. You mentioned DWM, so that's what you're running right now. Yeah. What made you do DWM? Was it just because it was light? Or why not, like, i3 or anything else like that? I see what this conversation

is going into. You're going to try and show Wayland for the million time. No! FFmpeg's clearly not gonna work after this, so... I have done DWM myself. I'm just curious why that one over something like i3,

Awesome, BSPWM, Qtile, I don't know. Anything else? Well, it makes sense when you take a look at um my history because i mentioned i like compiling software and i develop in c and so only makes sense that i would gravitate towards dwm because it's it's simple i get to manage with the C code, I get to compile it myself. And it's a small project, I know it's getting installed by it, like, almost every single file.

And so it's just natural that I like the flexibility of it, and how simple it is. I managed to strip out parts of DWM that just don't need like floating tiles. So you just removed the floating system entirely. Yeah, because it's a nightmare to deal with. Because I don't know what causes it, but sometimes DWM just makes it so the window only takes up the top left screen estate even when all of the estate is entirely free. Yeah, Awesome has the exact same problem. And so I don't know why it did it.

Awesome never fixed that. And so the way I fixed it is just by... and so the way that I fixed it is just removed the tiling system entirely I'd remove the floating system because then the universe or yeah she said the floating system yeah okay she said remove the tiling system not piling system. Right, right, okay. I was confused. Because some application, I don't know what it is. It just makes it so DWM switches to the floating system. And it makes no sense why.

It just does it. Right, right. And so if you remove it, then it doesn't need it mm-hmm that makes sense Do you have like a bunch of you know a DWM patches installed or are you one of the people who like to run it? fairly clean I do have patches, yeah. I forgot which ones I actually applied, though. Okay.

I just know one of the main ones was the window gaps. Ah, yes. Very important. Because part of my Arch Rising self hasn't left my LFS self, you know? Some of it stays. I always forget how many DWM patches there are. There's a ton, but a lot of them I just don't need. Yeah, there's like five different versions of Dapps.

I just don't need. Yeah, there's like five different versions of Dapps. Yeah, plus after you patch once, then patching yourself is an absolute nightmare because the diffs are completely off. Yeah, I have a ST build that was interesting to get working the first time and now I don't touch it. Oh my god, don't mention ST in patches, that was a nightmare.

Dmenu is a lot simpler, but even Dmenu is a problem. I remember spending a good hour or two trying to patch ST and I finally got it to a usable state and now I use ST, but it took about two hours just to patch it because all the diffs were off. Yup. I... Yeah. You have to know what the code does.

I don't use... Yeah. Yeah. You have to know what the code does. I don't use... Yeah. You're saying I don't use... What was that? I don't... I don't use D-Menu, though. I use Rofi. Oh.

Oh, okay. It's just because you just like it more? Did I upset you? No, I use a completely different program now called Toffee, which works much nicer on Weyland. D-Menu... Oh, I see. It's basically a clone of...

It's a clone of D-Menu, but it has a Rothy name. Don't ask why. Yeah, I just use Rothy because I just like how it goes in the middle and I can just type it. I don't like having a bar

at all. I actually really hate bars because it takes up screen estate for no good reason. Because I don't need to immediately know the time or battery usage or RAM usage if I was interested. I just...

If I wanted to know any information, I just open a new terminal and go to whatever application that tells me what the information I need is. And so I just have 100% screen of state. So when you check the time, do you just run the time command?

Whatever, what is it called? What's the command to check? It's date. Date, sorry. Is it called? What's the command to check? It's date. If I check the time, sometimes I literally just go into my Discord tab and check what the latest message I sent was. Or I

send a new message. You send a new... But if... Yeah. I feel like there are simpler ways to achieve this. Or I just check my phone because it's literally right next to me well yeah i do i do have a phone right next to me so i can just power it on check the time and then turn it back off and then you know it isn't as big of a waste of time as you think it is, and I think it's just better than having

a bar that literally just sets the time. Have you considered buying a clock? Just put it on your wall. That's a good point. No. No. That's a good point.

No. No. Clocks are bloat. That's true. I'm not surprised you don't use a bar, but it does amuse me. So, you just have a- I get get go on i i get why people i go i get why people have a bar and why they depend on it because like you you will want another time you will want to you know your battery usage what apps are like for example you have obs but having the recording indication you know like you you want to know that stuff but personally i don't need it and so why why have it why have it indeed um yeah do you have a wallpaper

oh i do okay okay we just had to check just just had to make sure no i don't i i don't have a fair command in my x and rc what are you talking about? I don't use fat. It's bloat. I Wouldn't look if you told me you just had a black screen unless you open an application At this point it just it wouldn't surprise me again. It would not surprise me In fact using the compositor explode. Just use the window manager. That's true. That's true. Who needs Pycom?

I actually didn't have Pycom. I didn't have Pycom installed towards the end of using X11. I was having... I don't even remember why I got rid of it actually. I think I was having issue, like, there was like weird capture issues, and I just was like, get rid of it, bye, I don't care. But, as like a general rundown, like what software do you run? so you've already mentioned dwm you've mentioned uh st and you mentioned firefox those are obviously like some big applications but what else do you have on your system you mentioned uh discord and steam as well obviously um but any other notable things that um people might want to know about i run this discord and the browser i am literally just using i i'm literally doing

this call in the discord browser but um not the discord browser but the browser version in firefox um i also use wine and i use steam yeah, those sort of go hand in hand. In the past, I actually used Steam Proton to launch my Windows applications because why would I install another application to run Windows applications if Proton works just fine? applications if Proton works just fine but um I really love teaching people and to show hey if you need this application here's how to install it that's what I like doing and so I needed to figure out a way to install Wine in order to teach how to do it and so i had to install it and so i went through that rabbit hole and i figured out a good way to do it um but yeah now i have wine and steam on my system what else is notable

i also mentioned moopin64 plus i've installed a DS emulator yet, but on my previous installation I had Desmumi. I have Citra, I have Dolphin, the emulator not the file manager. I just use the terminal. Do you use a terminal file manager or just terminal commands? Just terminal commands. I just use ls and grep. You don't have any file manager installed. You just use ls, grep, cd, cp, rm.

Yeah, just those, yeah. I used to have ranger and ranger worked pretty well but eventually I just stopped using ranger and just used terminal commands And Ranger worked pretty well, but eventually I just stopped using Ranger and Just used terminal commands even if even when I had Ranger on my system

This is another why situation. So I just gravitated away This is a very important why situation I I know again What is normal to you might not be normal to other people. So, I don't know. It's just instinctive habits, I guess, of just using simple terminal commands to do basic things. Because when you follow LFS, you just use these basic old commands to just do everything. And there's just... It's simple.

And so when... I don't know. It's just doing very simple things to do very simple things. Right, right. Okay, okay. What do you use as a text editor? Vim. Okay.

I did use neo vim but um i just have a few issues with neo vim like the the default out of the box i don't really like and the plugins i just i found it really difficult to set up kind of a hassle and it's just like why install all these plugins and stuff when Vim out of the box is just good enough for me sure do you use Vim as a

programming environment or do you use something else I don't really have a programming environment I just whenever I need to edit a C file, I just use Vim. And then I'll probably have some other terminals open up. For example, like one terminal in the root directory of the project. And I can just do like CMake, Make to test results. Then do like a clean of that directory, then commit and push. So, you mentioned before working on a game engine.

Did you write that with Vim without and make at the time by developed I made it so that it depends on C make now right instead of using a make file yeah, it's just basic fin and C. So, no like, you know, nice language auto-completion stuff, just straight write everything by hand? Yep. Okay! Do you at least use syntax highlighting? Well, yeah, because it's... Well, the way the configuration file is set up by LFS

is just good enough for me. Because they have their... When you set up Vim, then it has oh configuring vim do a vim rc but beyond that it just kind of out of the box has syntax highlighting and that's that's it okay all right um so Okay. Alright. So... You're a fascinating person. I'm learning a lot today. So you run DWM NST.

You program in a 90s programming environment. And you also play Steam games with Nvidia GPU you're a very fascinating person correct look I'm not trying to sound mean here this is just this is very interesting to me um no no it's okay i don't recommend this setup upon anyone okay i literally know how insane it's

i literally know how insane it sounds but the thing is it just works for me and that's the reason why i do it but if anyone asks asks, hey, what do you use? I'm like, I don't recommend this upon anyone. This is not a good fate. Don't get in this rabbit hole. Right. Save yourself. Yeah.

Okay, at least you're self-aware. Okay. I am self-aware. I am self aware so one thing I did want to ask is what's it like just being in a situation where you've got a system that's

completely set up by yourself because most people if they have a problem there is like a a place they can go to for support they can go to their distro either their distro and, or either their distro or, like,

resources surrounding their distro, but basically what you've got is LFS, BLFS, and then from there you're basically on your own, besides, like, material that exists for the specific software.

Yeah, so, on your own besides like material that exists for the specific software yeah so um there was the xc situation and um the thing with lfs and blfs is they have mailing lists okay and they can discuss vulnerabilities to the audience that does use LFS and BLFS. And so they just said, hey, there's a vulnerability, we recommend downgrading to this version. And whenever there's a vulnerability, you can just compile the old version yourself. And sometimes there's no issues. Other times there are going to be issues because of abi stuff and that's a common issue that happens with glibc and that's why i hate glibc because if the abi changes in glibc if you want to upgrade you have to recompile your entire system. When you're doing that... Which is not fun to do. Yeah, I wouldn't expect so.

When you're doing that... I use Arch, right? Like, if I have a problem like this, I just upgrade packages. But I assume you have to do things in a specific order to make sure you don't just completely brick your system. Um, it really depends. Because when an upgrade happens with a certain package, or a downgrade, the thing you really only have to worry about is how the libraries interact with other libraries and if the api remains the same just downgrade or upgrade

your package be done with it but if there's an api change then you have to figure out the entire dependency tree and go from the bottom of the dependency tree upwards well i mean in cases like g-libs so you have obviously different applications very much like it's gonna be a different case but like when you have a an issue where you need to mess with g-lib c like that i would imagine could cause some serious problems problems. Yeah, the LFS team basically recommends that you just recompile, which means you just start at stage 0, like squirt, you know, basically just go ahead and do LFS and BLFS again. Oh! Oh, okay. That's what I mean by recompilation of LFS,

is by literally just following LFS and BLFS again, because if you try to upgrade all those packages, it's probably not going to work at the end of the day. You're just going to break stuff. So just recompile again with the newer GLibc version however um the abi nowadays doesn't really change that much and so what you can end up doing is just apply a bunch of patches and be completely fine. You can just upgrade, but it really depends. And you have to research before you actually upgrade.

Otherwise you can end up breaking your system. So what sort of update cycle do you have for your system? I know you mentioned you hadn't upgraded your kernel in a while, but how often do you generally upgrade things? Only when I really need to, because a lot of packages just don't need updating at all. And so you can end up having most of your packages just be like over a year old old and you'll be just fine.

And so it's only like really important ones like OpenSSL, the graphics driver, sometimes curl, and just anything involving the internet. Yeah, like I said, your browser, things like that. Yeah, besides that, you don't really need to upgrade at all you can just stay on old software and be just fine because you're on a source-based distro if you're on a binary distro then you you basically have to upgrade everything because those libraries depend on those libraries depend. On those libraries. Compile time. So. Okay. So the answer is. There isn't much of an update.

Cycle. It's just. What desperately needs to be upgraded. Gets upgraded. But other things. Kind of just sit there. Yeah. Have you ever That's why

That's why whenever people mention maintainability of Alpha I'm just like, what maintainability? There's a little maintainability to be done. You just run your system. For the most part. So, uh, where

is it? Um... I know in BLFS isn't there a section on... I think it's called package management. Yeah, Isn't there a section on... I think it's like called package management. Yeah, there is a section on package management some whatever it's called I literally have a tab open just because I've been making a book but um Let's see. I was gonna ask like have you considered actually using a package manager I

Know that you said you like having things from source. So I'm gonna assume the answer is probably no, but It's yeah, it's definitely Yeah, and I know that's what a lot of people do. I know there's one member in your server that has a package manager, and by all means, that's a perfectly fine way to do things. But I just like going for it, just doing what I need and not have to worry about a package manager. Just because I couldn't really benefit from one. If you're installing a package manager, you're really you're just really you're just turning your system into like a whole nother thing

then. Like if you're installing Pac-Man for example, and you're pulling in from the Arch repos, just install Arch. Like you've just got a more broken version of arch then yeah you know a mental outlaw right yeah yeah yeah he he covered like installing a separate package manager on gen 2 like

installing pac-man on gen 2 and it's like he covered why that's a really bad idea because arch the the pac-Man manager is just gonna... It's just gonna pull in all the dependencies it thinks it needs despite what you already have on your system. Because it has no way of knowing what dependencies you actually have on your system unless it uses package config in which... Which Pac-Man doesn't rely on at all one thing you've mentioned before is you have done a bunch of LFS installs how many would you say at this point Yeah, I said about like, um, over ten. Okay.

Do you manually go through everything at this point, or do you have scripts set up to automate parts of it? All of the attempts have been manual. Okay. By hand. How long does it take you? If I had to give like a total oh go on yes with with like steaming wine it takes about like 40 hours

35 to get like just basic stuff but if you want like firefox and stuff like that right then it takes 40 hours um if you're just installing if I just install LFS it only takes six hours mm-hmm but if I go through be all fast it ends up being about 35 hours to 40 hours over how long did would that usually take you like how if you are going through an lfs and still like how much time per day are you spending on it um well i i did i did mention that i have autism and so I just spend whatever time I'm doing

really dedicated to the craft. I spend a lot of hours in one single session not eating or drinking at all. So I just spend about eight hours every day just going at it. I thought you were going to say you just spend 36 hours and get it done.

Just one go. Don't sleep. I need I need sleep you know. You don't need sleep. You can sleep. Sleep is for the weak. I can just compile my kernel. I could spend whatever time sleeping to compile software.

That's true. Just get a slower CPU so you can sleep longer. True. I have thought about getting a really old, crappy old computer that has like an i3 i3-86 CPU. And just like try and compile AllFest just

using that. I've had a guy on the show... Go on. We have a giant delay. I don't know why the delay is so massive today. Probably because I'm using LFS. Just blame LFS. That's what some of my friends do.

It's just like, oh, it's because you're using Linux or LFS. I'm like, no, that's not how it works. But I lost my train of thought. I'm like, no, that's not how it works. But, um... I lost my train of thought. Um... Yeah, I'm not sure. Oh, you're talking about getting a i3. Or i3 something.

Your slow system, old system. Yeah, there's just... Yeah, it's just, like, very simplistic. I used to compile LFS on a spinning disk. And there's, like, a simplistic crappiness to it that's charming because of how slow it boots. And it feels like you're just back in the old days. And that's the feeling i want to achieve with getting like an i386 so i have had someone on this show who did gen 2 on a ps2

um it took a while to do anything like a long while to do anything. Like, a long while to do anything. But it can be done. Linux was officially supported on the PS2. Why? Yeah, the question is just why. For the memes? Yeah, just pretty much it. Yeah, that sounds about right there's no good reason to do it um

you you just kind of do it yeah i think that's that that's a reason that's the main reason why a lot of installations happen i guess it's just you do it just just for the sake of it and it it's fun and part of lfs is just not having a system that you can work on but just for the fun of installing it which is it's just a fun process to do for me and so sometimes it can be treated as a pastime I'm glad that you have fun with it because I I was not having

fun I you know maybe if I was doing it myself but because I was doing it on stream and I was like reading chat as well while I was doing it on stream and I was, I was like reading chat as well while I was doing it. I was drinking and it was taking so long to do stuff. And I probably could have got it done,

but I just, I just didn't want to look at that thing again. And I hadn't even done BLFS yet. Yeah. I did. I did notice when watching all the streams that there was like no final stream as it were like get finally actually booting up in your system and seeing if it works or if you get a kernel panic and i was like where did it go and so i just kind of assumed that you didn't

actually finish the LFS installation. But now I guess I have that confirmation. Yeah. I honestly going through LFS, it made me hate streaming. I just didn't want to stream anymore. It was like, it was fun at the start,

but after like what? 10 episodes of the same thing over and over again? Just, yeah. So it wasn't because of the chat, but it was just because you hated streaming the same thing over and over again? That honestly was a big part of it. Like, it was just running commands. Okay, we wait a couple of seconds okay run a command okay run a command okay again again again oh this one takes a couple of minutes that's the thing that's the thing with lfs and blfs is because like you can't just press like make and then wait like 20 minutes and that's most of

the compile time but the a big part of the time is spent actually typing and moving around and stuff like that rather than actually compiling and so a lot of the time is just you know spent doing that instead of actually just waiting for the thing to compile. Yeah, a lot of the... And so I can imagine it being frustrating. Yeah. As I said before, a lot of the things you will compile are obviously really, really small. So you can't just wait

because it's not going to take that long to compile. It's going to take that long to compile it's gonna take maybe maybe at most like you know a couple of seconds for some of them like when you're compiling like grep or or gzip or make or patch like all of these things they are very very quick compiles or like a lot of the little libraries and stuff. Like, all this stuff. Like, um... What's another good example? Check. Or...

Like, Vim. Even Vim doesn't take that long. Groff. Yeah, even Vim, yeah. It doesn't take that long at all. I should go back and actually go through LFS and actually get it done, but... Maybe one day. Again, I am self-aware and realize that it's absolutely stupid,

but I do recommend giving LFS at least one shot just because of all the material that you can learn. But in terms of daily driving it don't daily drive it if unless you're like severely autistic and need something to feel that you know desire just linux right right like if if you're so deep in a rabbit hole then maybe give daily driving a shot and see how you like it. Otherwise, don't bother. You've been using Linux for two years. You just tripped and fell into the rabbit hole.

Yeah, hard. Again, most people are fine on like arch or gen 2 like most people don't even use lfs as a daily driver the fact that you got there so quickly is still wild to me i don't know how it happened it just happened so besides the oh go on go on oh no you continue i was gonna say besides the whole like glibc stuff and that being a problem anytime there's an issue there what sort of major issues have you had with your system whether it be issues regarding dealing with package upgrades or things that you had to fix along the way like what what

are some of the challenges you've had honestly not at all the main issues were just trying to figure out how to actually get Steam working. I think that's where my major pitfalls were. I mean, there was trying to get Network Manager to actually compile, but there's just so many dependencies that Network Manager requires. requires and I didn't even know what dependencies those were unless you just get the dependency then go ahead and try and configure again and it doesn't work so you get that dependency try it again and the process was so numbing after like 30 dependencies that I just completely gave up on trying Network Manager. Okay. Other than that, I just didn't you know, I didn't have much issues. I'm seeing the dependency

list. I see the issue. Oh, you're looking at the Arch. You're looking at the Arch one. No, I'm looking at the Arch. You're looking at the Arch one. No, I'm looking at BLFS. It says, like, recommended and required, but that's a complete fabrication. That's a lie.

Okay. Don't trust it. It's not right. At least in my experience, it's not right. Okay. I haven't made an issue on the mailing list yet because I still don't know what's needed, and I don't made an issue on the mailing list yet because i still don't know what's needed and i don't want to deal with it so for anyone just i don't think anyone does

for anyone just listening it says required lib ndp and that's the only required which does not sound right to me at all there's no way there is one required package yeah uh for recommend let me yeah let me take a look at this there's no way

there's no way at all oh my god so for recommended this is a big fat lie yeah that makes sense to me for recommended it says DHCPCD GLIB

wait what why is that whatever I'm seeing the problem. It's... It's just gobjacked introspection. IP tables,

lib, PSL, newt, NSS, poll kit, pyg object, elogin D, vala, a PA supplicant, and then optional. The optional stuff I can imagine. There's some fireball stuff in here.

Yeah, I can imagine a lot of this, the optional stuff actually being... GTK dock, definitely optional. Actually optional. Yeah, these seem optional. What does Arch say? Even after don't look at the Arch one, it isn't nightmare. What does Gendu say? Trust me. Let's go to Gendu.

Actually, yeah. Let's see. Package information. Okay. Okay. Package information Okay Dependencies, here we go Required dependency ACCT group plug dev GLIB Why is GLIB

Optional? I'm confused VCT group plug dev. GLIB. Yeah, why is GLIB optional? I'm confused. Oh, it was required for me. No, I mean optional on the listing on BLFS. It's recommended. Oh, sorry, recommended. Oh, sorry. Recommended. Yeah, sorry.

Yeah. Yeah, Genji has a lot of stuff listed here. That's right. You should check out the Arch list. I do have network management. And show it to the entire audience it to the entire audience and show it because it is a complete nightmare hmm arch network manager let's see the network managed package here we go what do we have it has 59 dependencies. Oh god, okay

Okay, so the the actual required dependencies are audit curl IP route to Jensen Lib MMG lib lib NDP lib newt lib NM at live at PSL lib team mobile broadband provider info WPA supplicant and then oh My god, there are so many make dependencies here, um, Blue, uh, yeah, Blues makes sense, because that's Bluetooth stuff, DHC, uh, so DH Client, DHCPD, DNS Mask, Firewall D, IP Tables, IWD, Modern Manager... Motor Manager, sorry. NF tables, Open Resolve, Pack Runner, Poll Kit, PPP, and then a bunch of other dependencies.

That's not that bad. It's a mess. It could be worse. Okay, look. To be fair, some of the things that are... Some of the things that are listed here as dependencies are like, yes technically, but it's gonna be there anyway, like SystemD. You don't really need to list SystemD on Arch, or Git. There are some things you can assume are just gonna be there.

And one thing that you may forget about is those dependencies also have dependencies. This is very true. And so you have to go down the list. And it becomes absolutely unbearable at some point that you just give up.

Because literally, there's no point. Justin saw something similar similar like using wpa supplicant and dhcpcd yeah you really don't if you if you're doing a wired system like a ethernet you really don't need network manager manager yeah um no like if we're using kde and use wi-fi then yeah it's nice to have but otherwise i i just go down the route of dh and um um wpa supplicant because it's just easier to deal with yeah yeah I can imagine um you're on the topic of our Katie let's say I go to BLFS and let's check the Katie a bit oh my god I'm sure it look there there's a reason why I haven't dealt with that devil.

Introduction to KDE. So we have introduction to KDE, KDE Frameworks, KDE Frameworks 5-based applications, then building KDE Plasma 5. Gnome's not much better, but... The thing with KDE is... You know KDE Framework 5 and all that stuff? All the libraries and applications that are the result of your compilation or downloading? It's so much stuff.

And it's mind-numbing to look at and it's like, why even go through the process? Why can't KDE just do something in a better way? That's how I look at it.

What do you mean by that? uh meaning that's how i look at it what do you mean by that there's just so many libraries and applications so when it could just be a lot smaller the thing with kde having so many libraries they actually used to do it in another way where they still had the libraries but instead of them being all these separate things they were all one big library monolith and back then people complained that if they installed dolphin they had to pull in a 500 megabyte dependency because instead of it being these like a hundred individual packages it was one mega package that had everything inside of it. Yeah, and I can understand that point of view as well.

I know, um, what is it, X11? They used to, I think they used to be like one big package, but now they split up into modular things. Mm-hmm. but now they split up into modular things. Because of how the XOR project wanted to do things, but... That's how it's done. So... You brought it up before and look, I'm gonna have to... I'm gonna ask, is there a world where you consider running Weyland?

I do, actually. It's just I have to figure out everything, like, how I'm gonna, you know, run Steam Wine, um, record with FFM Pig, or figure out what I'm gonna use to record, take screenshots,

stream, and stuff like that figure out you know my my working environment with stdwm rofi you know all that stuff and beyond that i i'd switch to leyland it's just figuring out what my environment's gonna look like is the problem. Right, right. Because I don't doubt that Weyland would be ready for me. It's just a matter of sorting out what I need. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That definitely makes sense. Especially with being a DWM user, it's really hard to replace DWM, especially once you have a very customized setup. I mean, one thing that you could do is replace all the X11 libraries with the Wayland protocol and Compositor and stuff like that.

And try and change all the function calls and stuff like that. It can be done sure and I would like to do that it's just probably going to take a while just port DWM to WL roots maybe

I haven't I haven't gave Hyperland a shot. Uh-huh. I might give Hyperland a shot, though. Mm-hmm. And see how I like it, but generally I just like making my own projects. That's fair.

And using them. Okay, well, that's... I guess that's... You're laughing. No, that's pretty reasonable. I get that. I get that. I think the biggest issue you're going to have is you're going to...

Look, unless the FFMBeg team does something, I think you might have to replace your capture solution. Which is something else. Yeah. Yeah. Or just, you know, use a capture card. Yeah, I did bring that up before. Just output.

Just run everything through a capture card. Just don't even think about it. Honestly, that would be the easiest solution. Then you just genuinely don't have to think about it. Because then you don't have to worry about which display server you're using, you just you know, use it. The thing with my setup though

is because there's the HDMI pass-through. And so that HDMI goes into my monitor and so my refresh rate gets hindered because hdmi is hdmi and i hate hdmi i i much prefer display port so i'm gonna have to figure that out yeah hdmi's great, especially with the recent...

I don't know if you saw this, the recent stuff with the HDMI forum being the HDMI forum. Yeah, that was fun. It made me realize the reason why I love DisplayPort.

I really wish... Honestly, the only reason why I even care a little bit about HDMI is because of game consoles. If game consoles were using DisplayPort, I would never need to think about HDMI. Or even just offered it as like a secondary option. That would be so nice. And like the problem with game consoles only doing HDMI is every capture card is an HDMI capture card. It is so difficult to find a DisplayPort capture card.

They are very- there's Some of them do exist, but they're not commodity hardware like the HDMI stuff are. Yeah, 100%. The only reason I've been looking into stuff is because I'm getting... I wanted to set up my capture PC at some point, so I need to get another capture card

and replace a couple of things in my chain and deal with stuff, but I really wish I could just do DisplayPort. That would make it so much easier. But no. Yeah, I love DisplayPort because every time I try using HDMI and just trying to use it for my monitor,

Every time I try using HDMI and just trying to use it for my monitor, it always locked my refresh rate down a peg from what it should be. I'm like, why the hell is this happening? Even VGA works better. And it's like, why does VGA work better than freaking HDMI, which is more modern than VGA? And it just made me really upset, and so I just rage quit and switched to DisplayPort, and it changed my life forever. VGA is one of those things which are just never going to, like, disappear. It's such an important legacy connector. There are so many systems that still only use VGA.

I have seen so many situations where a projector only has a VGA output. It's, like, in some cases, you'll see projectors that are VGA HDMI, because VGA, it had such a foothold in industry use, like, much like floppy disk, right? Where even though most people have moved on, there's still giant industries that are still relying on floppy disk today and are not going to move until they absolutely have to. You would think that Vga cables and stuff like that would be harder to come by now that it's it's an old standard but they're surprisingly

very easy and cheap to get and but graphics cards are slowly moving away from using VGA. My new graphics card doesn't have a VGA port, but my old 1050 Ti had a VGA port, and I appreciate it. Because VGA is actually surprisingly good. It can go up to 144 hertz. I'm sorry, what? Which is good for the gamers around the world wait vga what or is that 120 hertz i i i can do 120 what yeah i can go up to 120 hertz Uh, 144, yeah. What? Yeah, 144 hertz. What resolution was that at? It's better than HDMI. For me, it was 1080p.

1080p, 144 hertz. What? Wait. It was better. It was better than HDMI. I'm not kidding. I- It makes me so upset.

I am just learning this. Wait. I'm seeing some people say- I'm seeing some people say it can do it and some people saying it can't do it? For me it could. I'm so confused. I'm so confused. okay just know that vga can actually be better than hdmi it made me so upset when i figured that out well because i think i don't know what my hdmi cable

because i can't remember what my hdmi setup was capped at, but VGA could go higher than my HDMI setup, and I was so infuriated. And then DisplayPort can go even higher than VGA, so the tier list is literally HDMI, VGA, and DisplayPort in my use case. Okay, I did not know this. I was not aware of this capability whatsoever. Like, the last time I had a VGA... The last time I used VGA,

I don't even know. Like, I used DVI for a long time. I don't know the last time I even used VGA on one of my own systems. Probably like the first computer I had. That's probably the last time. Jesus. Oh, wait. Hold on. Oh.

Hold on. Oh, wait. No. I was confusing VGA with DVIvi that would make more sense okay it's actually yeah oh yeah i was talking about um dvi not vga ah yes yes yes okay this makes sense um yeah never mind ignore the last 10 minutes it's fine don't it didn't happen it's complete it's i just gaslight the entire audience here oh you're gonna get comments about that i guarantee it yeah dueling dvi so yeah dueling dvD can do 1080p 144Hz. Huh. Yeah.

Huh. But it's still better than HDMI. Okay. Even that, I didn't realize that DVRD could do that high. That I was not aware of. Cause that would've been like- Well you learn something every day, will- Will it be useful? I'm not aware of Cause that would've been like Well you learn something everyday Will it be useful? I'm not sure Cause that would've been much

Higher than like first gen HDMI without a doubt Huh cause it's not until like what Absolutely It's probably not until like 1.4 that HDMI surpassed that then It's been a while since it surpassed it For sure but

Because like nowadays With modern HDMI Modern HDMI Massively massively Outperforms it but For the time I can definitely see the I can definitely see the value In going down that route instead

because remember that was one of the early selling points of the playport as well it was like much fast like much higher specs than hdmi so does hdmi upgrade when depending on the device output, like the graphics card? Or is it just the cable that gets upgraded and some of the software? Well, the device needs to be able to output at the highest standards. Ah, I see. So you would need like a... So yeah, then the 10... Then the 1050 Ti wouldn't be able to

Have that high standard. No no at a low standard, so that's why that's why the HDMI was It was not not doing things the way that I wanted to yeah the 1050 Ti. Let's see what year was that from Yeah, the 1050 TI. Let's see. What year was that from? That released in... Someone give me a review. What year did PC Gamer review it? PC Gamer, why is there not a goddamn year on your review? October 25th 2016 That's a bit of an old card at this point. So yeah, it was in 2016.

The fact that 2016 is old is still surprising to me. Yeah, I... In the tech landscape, it's not. Well, I... Yeah, I think about, like, when I graduated high school and um i don't like thinking about

that because that was uh going on nine years ago. Jesus Christ. Yeah, I graduated high school, like, last year, and I... And I... Even I feel old. Yeah, all my friends just call me, like, a baby because I'm so young compared to them, and it's like... I'm getting mixed signals here. Don't worry, it only gets worse there will never be a point where it gets better oh i believe you i have like i've looked at my uh my audience graph and i think my like the majority of my audience is like like, late 20s, early 30s,

but I actually have, like, a surprisingly high number of people in my audience that are, like, 55 plus, and it, it's always, it's always interesting when I, I do these, like, uh, history videos, because I'll get people in my comments who are, like, yeah, I was, I'll get people in my comments who are like, yeah, I was- I'll talk about something that was happening in like 1991 and they're like, oh yeah, I was like doing this Unix stuff back then like Right. I always forget my uh, my demographic is uh quite wide Yeah, I've- I noticed this weird Yeah, I've, I noticed this weird, like, I don't know, like, you hear about, like, the software developers are just, like, still want a beer, you know, but it's so weird hearing that from software developers and big Linux enthusiasts. Because I thought they'd be the ones that wouldn't be so down to earth and just be down for like a brewski, you know?

Yeah, I think... But as it turns out, a lot of them are just old-fashioned drinking beer, just showing out. They just want to develop their software and just have a good rest of their day. Yeah, exactly. Just like, you know, too many important things in life to worry about to to argue about nonsense just like hey let's uh let's just chill i got software to write let's write some software and uh compile compile like you know there's this idea where um like when software genuinely did take a long time to compile like if you're compiling the kernel it

would take you know a couple of hours um there there was there are some people out there who were not a fan of upgrading like cpu platforms because it meant they had less time to just take a break like there's always like fun people fun stories you can talk about with people who've been around in this space for a very long time yeah it's such a shame that they're not talking

about the important things about Linux like talking about the supply chain that exists the so the supply chain that exists. Mm-hmm. The so-called supply chain. And mentioning the XE drama for the so-called supply chain, mentioning XE a hundred times over. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Yeah. That was a fun situation that happened there. Yeah, the xz case was it what what happened on um was there like any discussion on like the lfs side about that i assume there's no like lfs does not recommend installing the patches that cause an issue with um with xz so when when the first thing the first bit of news came out like about two hours after the i guess two hours after it like really started to pop off um they were discussing like hey downgrade to this version but there but there was a lot of paranoia in the mailing list.

Like, no, we need to downgrade to an even older version. And it's like, oh, what about the XE vulnerability showing down to other packages on your system, like R or GCC? And there was just a bunch of paranoia. And then there was a bunch of arguments political arguments and creating like um standards and stuff like that and eventually led to an editor i i don't know if he stepped away from the um the team or if he just stepped away from the email thread because it legitimately got very heated and very argumentative and it's just like holy crap over just some xc situation just downgrade

figure that out then when you figure it out then upgrade again it's it's not that big of a deal yeah it doesn't need all this political argument I mean things are gonna be as they've always have nothing will change because there's with the open source ecosystem nothing really can change as of now because everything just wants to do their own thing. They just want to develop their own projects. Sometimes they just don't have the energy to

switch over to the next big thing. Like security standards. There was one project or two projects that you talked about that i i don't know but um if i went like development developed me my game engine if i had to focus on like the strict security

issues and whatnot then i think think I'd just stop developing entirely. Right, right. I can certainly get that taking away from it. Just because it's like, I just want to develop code, I don't want to focus on all the security nonsense. Just use a system that's less easy to exploit. Like stop using the configure system and move over to CMake where the configuration file is literally in the Git repo. Instead of in release tarballs. And that way it's a lot easier to track for abilities but

other than that i just want to develop my code right right no i get that xz like the xz case was it it was one of those weird cases where it could have been so much worse like the fact that it got caught early the fact that like some dude he was running SSH and it ran like half a second slower and that that was what set him off like okay let's let's test see what's going on here why is it running slower like the fact that someone thought that that was such an important case they had to go and test it like it could have been missed so easily from a dude and from a dude working at microsoft no less somehow somehow the guy that works at the company of what people would call our enemy operating system helped our operating system.

Mm-hmm. It's incredibly ironic, but honestly, a tale of just like software developers helping other software developers and just making sure everyone is okay. Yeah. That's the thing that really matters most i think a lot of people get too caught up in the whole you know it like the same with like red hat and all this like red hat meta face like it if you look at like the linux kernel for example you have people from you people from amazon intel nvidia red hat you have meta people you have all of these different people

and I think a lot of people get too caught up in the corporate management like overarching structure and forget about the fact that most of the engineers are just

engineers they are at these companies because they pay well. But if there was a, especially the people that are working on the kernel, if there was a company they could work at that was fully in support of open source that also paid

really well, they would likely work there. It's just, you know, meta gives you a lot of money so they happen to be at meta yeah besides that companies can do really crappy things in the red hot hat um centos stream um you know that that was kind of kind of bad but besides, it's just why care about these companies contributing to a free and open source project as long as the code is completely fine. If there's binaries in a kernel project, then that's an issue to possibly worry about because who knows what's actually in those binaries but besides that then

it's not really an issue to worry about it's just companies wanting to support a project because the project helps them yeah yeah so it's just a win-win for everyone and i i've said this a couple of times in previous shows but i think it's always important to separate the engineers. Separate the engineers from the companies. I've spoken to a bunch of people from Red Hat, and even after the whole Red Hat thing, and they're great people. Some of them I've spoken to very much disagree with the stance

that Red Hat has taken over the past couple of years, but they feel that overall Red Hat is a productive force and that's pretty much why they stay there. But all of these people are just, like, they're not the corporate leadership. The corporate leadership is the corporate leadership. Like the corporate leadership in most places is corporate leadership. You can look at any, any company, whether it's in this space or any other space and the people doing the, like the groundwork are very, very different than the people leading the company. Yeah. And the way that I think about it is actually not with you know linux or free and open source development but like nintendo i i talked about just like emulating like nintendo 64 games but i like nintendo as a company can do really crappy things but the developers one way to put it you know you know the actual games are really cool people who

make really good products but it's just a company that really besmirches everyone's names yeah and that's kind of the same thing with the um you know development world and tech industry yeah nintendo is uh very very litigious they do not like you touching anything that they own they're very much like disney in that way like they they we're probably gonna get we're gonna get nintendo probably just because we mentioned their name Well, hey, um, you know Bring it on. It was a nice run while we had it. That's We've not emulated any video games we do not support emulation. Emulation is bad unless

Nintendo sells a device that uses an open source emulator and that's okay then. Yuzu was... that was a situation but to be fair the developers kind of had it coming because they had a patreon and apparently they were um discussing piracy so the developers kind of had it had it coming yeah there's a reason why a lot of projects that mess around with uh things like this like i'll say Linux, for example. They are very terrified of anyone who has ever been within 100 miles of an Apple building. They do not want anything to do with you. Do not come anywhere near the code base. Do not suggest fixes for anything.

They don't even want to know that you're a real person. And the reason why they're like that is because they just, they don't want any chance that Apple comes after them for having any possibility of code that shouldn't be publicly available. And in, like, a similar vein with Yuzu, like, Nintendo is very litigious. They will come after you for messing with their IP in any little way. And if it wasn't

going to be for the Patreon and not stopping people talking about piracy, it would have been something else. At some point, they would have found a reason to shut this project down and by extension also Citra.

But that just happened to be at the time the uh, the simplest way to do so. Yeah and it's... There, there was a lawyer that kind of... suggested... is that the, the end of emulation might be near or there's gonna be like... an Avengers end game with emulation because nintendo kind of has been more you know uptight shoulder squared yeah with emulation and so it he basically said hey they're drawing a line right here don't crush it cross it otherwise

things will probably get ugly and we're going to have a battlefield. Yeah. And so that's something that's probably going to happen sometime soon. It's just a matter of when. I don't know how we got to this topic. Oh, because

I was talking about how like treating developers fairly despite what the company thinks. Right, right, right. It does things. Right, that happened, didn't it? Yeah, it did. We are coming up on the two-hour mark.

So, I guess we probably should start wrapping it up. This was fun. I enjoyed this. Sure. I quite enjoyed it too. You got to hear this perspective of a Linux from scratch user that you're kind of completely baffled by. That's my intent. Okay.

Well, I'm glad you had your intent uh fulfilled there um no no i just kind of do my own thing but sometimes surprises people and then and that's that's completely fine so do you have anything that you want to direct people to or do you just want to send people towards lfs or what what do you what do you have anything that you want to direct people to or do you just want to send people towards lfs or what what do you what do you want to mention um so i am a youtuber and so i do plan on creating like a guide to install steam and wine on office and stuff like that but i don't know how long that's that's gonna take i'm writing a book right now but i don't know when it's gonna be finished but

when i'm finished i'll just post on my channel but otherwise if you want to follow lfs or be lfs just go to the sites directly they'll teach you how to do stuff. Fair enough. But if you have any trouble, just go to YouTube. There might be some issues regarding EFI and the boot directory and Grub, but

otherwise, you'll probably be fine. I see you were streaming at Tie the Tasmanian Tiger. Yes, multiple times because of FF and pig I am a very big fan of this game this is a game

I am not surprised I grew up with it too it's a very good game I only ever I'm not surprised. I grew up with it, too. It's a very good game. I only ever played the first one... Sorry, I only ever had the first one. I played Night of the Quinken at one of my friend's houses, but I never got to finish it. I need to get around to finishing the trilogy at some point.

One day. I always wanted to play the other games until I saw footage of it. Then I'm like, oh god, this is mid-2000s average platformer guns and stuff like that. I'm like, this does not look fun at all. I like the first game. It just, like, it's chill. It's what it was meant to be. No, I get that. I get that.

You know. Yeah. Is there anything else you want to mention, or is it just the channel and LFS? That's it. Awesome. As for me, the main channel is Brody Robertson. I do Linux videos there six-ish days a week.

I've got a gaming channel that is Brody on Games. By the time this comes out, I will be done with both the games I was playing. So, I don't know what I'm going to be playing. I still have not decided. I'll have to do that after the stream I have after I wake up. Maybe it'll be Sekiro. I don't know. I keep saying it's probably going to be Sekiro.

Maybe I play Sekiro. I don't know. And if you're listening to the audio version of this, you can find the video version on YouTube at Tech Over Tea. If you're watching the video, you can find the audio on basically any audio podcast platform. There's an RSS feed. Grab that if you like RSS feeds. I'll give you the final word. What do you want to say? How do you want to end us off? Don't go too far down the rabbit

hole. Otherwise, you'll never come out from it again fair enough save yourself see you guys later see ya