Tech Over Tea - Linux Is Nothing But Drama Today | XeroLinux

Episode Date: August 18, 2023

Over the past few months there has been so much linux drama flying around, and it's probably never going to stop so since that's the case we might as well just talk about it. ==========Guest Links========== Website: https://xerolinux.xyz/ Github: https://github.com/XeroLinux Mastodon: https://fosstodon.org/@XeroLinux ==========Support The Show========== ► Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/brodierobertson ► Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/BrodieRobertsonVideo ► Amazon USA: https://amzn.to/3d5gykF ► Other Methods: https://cointr.ee/brodierobertson =========Video Platforms========== 🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBq5p-xOla8xhnrbhu8AIAg =========Audio Release========= 🎵 RSS: https://anchor.fm/s/149fd51c/podcast/rss 🎵 Apple Podcast:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tech-over-tea/id1501727953 🎵 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3IfFpfzlLo7OPsEnl4gbdM 🎵 Google Podcast: https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy8xNDlmZDUxYy9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw== 🎵 Anchor: https://anchor.fm/tech-over-tea ==========Social Media========== 🎤 Discord:https://discord.gg/PkMRVn9 🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/TechOverTeaShow 📷 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/techovertea/ 🌐 Mastodon:https://mastodon.social/web/accounts/1093345 ==========Credits========== 🎨 Channel Art: All my art has was created by Supercozman https://twitter.com/Supercozman https://www.instagram.com/supercozman_draws/ DISCLOSURE: Wherever possible I use referral links, which means if you click one of the links in this video or description and make a purchase we may receive a small commission or other compensation.

Good morning, good day, and good evening. Welcome to episode 181 of Tech of a T. Today, we have a returning guest. I think this is your third time here? Yeah. Welcome, Steve, maintainer of ZeroLinux. How are you doing? Welcome to the show.

Hey, I'm glad to be back. Third time's the charm, as they say. Maybe this time is going to be interesting. Maybe this is the one that's going to be really terrible and everything is just going to fall apart. Hopefully not. Hopefully not. So I guess before we get into the main stuff, just briefly introduce who you are and what you do in case anyone haven't seen the previous episodes. All right.

I am the head maintainer of Zero Linux, a distribution that is very simple. It's just Arch with KDE, a custom version of KDE, making it simple and beautiful out of the box and stays out of your way, giving you the space to shape it your way as easy as possible. When we're talking about art, it cannot be that easy, as we have seen multiple times. But other than that, I maintain some packages from the AUR on my repositories. And yeah, I appear on YouTube whenever I can as a guest. My YouTube channel is currently on hiatus until further notice. I don't know when I'm going to bring it back.

But other than that, yeah, that's who I am and that's what I do. Awesome. I didn't really know what you were going to say there. I think the last time you were on, I think the Gnome version had just come out. Or was it just coming out? Yeah, 0G. I know we talked about XFCE then as well. I don't know if that had just come out as well.

Yes, they both came out at the same time as bonus spins for those who are willing to donate for the ISOs. And I need to make it clear, because some people think that I'm charging for a FOSS project, and they don't like that. We'll be talking about that when we are talking about the Red Hat thing. But I am just charging for my time.

The code is on GitHub. They can build those spins for free. It's just two commands in terminal the only caveat is they have to be on an arch based pistol or arch itself yeah because it uses the arch repositories and no it doesn't mean manjaro if you are on manjaro and you think you're on arch if you go to the to the manjaro wiki even they say they are not arch they They are further away from Arch than other, like Debian from Ubuntu. Just be mindful of that. So don't try on Manjaro.

You'll fail. But any other Arch-based distro, you can build on that. And recently, I did something that somebody called s tier marketing okay i you know how zero linux people download zero linux because it looks good sure sure well i made the rice available for anyone on an arch based distro and kde to apply that rice but it's not everything from Zero Linux. This will not convert their distro to Zero Linux but

it's a small taste of what Zero Linux is. If you want the full experience install Zero Linux. It's tier marketing. Speaking of theming, you know what you should do? Here is the next... here's a theme you have available for the XFCE version. Grass? Monk?

okay windows 95 is that windows 95 it's windows 95 it's probably the best looking windows 95 theme i've actually seen i like it looks ugly as hell but like it's a good job you know to be honest when i started when i got my first PC, it was past Windows 95. I started my PC adventures on Windows 98 because before then I was on a Macintosh. For those who are on the 80s and 90s, Mac 2VI. Macintosh 2VI. Macintosh 2VI. It was a 25 megahertz Macintosh with 75 megabyte hard drive. And I was able to push it as far as OS,

Mac OS 7.1.1. That's the last OS I installed on it. And that was in we kept using that computer until 98. The introductory price was 3,000 US dollars. It was a company expense.

Yeah. It was just 6,000 equivalent to that. That is insane. And i forgot how much yeah like obviously people talk about how pc prices are going up and up and up but like if you look back at some of these older systems they were really expensive like like uh since i'm a child of the 90s i can I can tell you that laptops, if you went to a store,

a brick and mortar store or whatever, a computer store, and you wanted to buy a laptop, nothing was below $5,500. Well, yeah, because they were a business device. $5,500 for a thousand. Yeah, well, considered business devices, but not really. Some people were buying them for homes.

Business guys with a screen this big you know but uh today when you go to a store you can find computer laptops for 400 dollars yeah yeah so i'm like come on people stop saying it's expensive go back to the 90s and see how much people needed to die how many and salaries back then were not as good as salaries today. So people had to save up to buy themselves a laptop or a desktop because they were like in the $5,000, $6,000, $7,000 range. Not yourself lucky, people. You didn't have it as good back then.

With those $400 computers, I wouldn't even recommend buying them. The nice thing you have now is you have all of this legacy hardware that fits into these different price brackets. So you could spend $400 on a second-hand laptop and get something way nicer than, you know, that

like plastic junk that you're gonna buy new at $400. Yeah, or we still have those kind of people here who prefer to buy used or... And for some reason, here in Lebanon, netbooks are still a thing. Okay. Well, I guess.

Netbooks, the small, like 11-inch laptops, had non-existent performance. Basically, you could barely open a browser on these things. Barely. Netbooks were really weird. They've come and gone again.

They're sort of here with the tablets they sell with a keyboard cover. In a sense, that's a netbook, but it's not like what traditionally what like it's more the tablets today that are that look like netbooks are 10 times more powerful than the netbooks that were available back then i'm like why are netbooks still a thing over here i guess because they're like 70 bucks 80 bucks 100 bucks i'm like okay and because here we are still suffering the uh

economic crisis we haven't escaped it yet uh people who used to get paid 400 a month now get paid 150 oh lovely okay yeah so even public transportation, we used to pay $2 per... Our cabs here, our cab system is completely different than the rest of the world. Wherever you want to go, it's the same price. There are no counters in the cab or... It doesn't depend on the distance. Because they're called service. Service means they can pick up other people, drop them in other areas on the way.

Not only you. So it's like a... They treat it like a mini bus then. Yeah, a mini bus. Kind of. A very small bus with four people in it. Yeah. So we used to pay $1, $2 max.

Now it's like $15, $20. Or like even public transportation is unreachable these days so i guess it makes sense why netbooks are still like seeing use then yeah yeah a lot of people prefer to buy used they don't care how badly used they are as long as they can get a functional web browser functional messaging system how functional like is a netbook nowadays like what it is still running the OS that came with it Or they still running like really outdated browsers like no here here they have a new they have a system here because Well, Microsoft set it would set its foot down

Mm-hmm because back in the, in the early 2000s, they were selling laptops, netbooks, desktops with pirated versions of Windows. I'm not surprised. Any country that has economic issues is selling pirated software. It's just a basic rule. It might as well.

What are they going to do? Well, yeah. They thought that Microsoft was never going to touch them. Microsoft opened offices here, Microsoft Middle East. So they can no longer do that. So now they sell all their devices with no OS. Okay. They call it when they put the line that says OS.

Now they put DOS, meaning that says os now they put dos meaning no os huh you know just not to say no as they say dos i kind of wish they did that here like i don't i don't want to buy a laptop with windows and i'm going to just uninstall it anyway just give me the option exactly and i'm currently'm currently looking for the best Linux-friendly laptop because you'll be surprised to know that I am currently, for my portable thing between here and the office downstairs, I'm using the Steam Deck with zero Linux on an external SSD. I didn't want to wipe the SteamOS or touch SteamOS.

And that's wonderful because Valve gave you the option to be able to put any OS of your choosing from an external drive without touching SteamOS. If you want to tinker and whatever, that's called open source hardware. If this is the future we're going to, I'm happy. Yeah, it would be. I'm really happy with what Valve's done with that device.

I said it before. I know people are sick of hearing it. I want a Steam Deck. I know I can import it, but I really wish they would just sell it here. It's been so long. I had to import mine. I had to import mine from Dubai,

and I bought the 256 gig model. It was like $580 in Dubai. Arrived here, I ended up getting a total of $700. Oh, jeez. But anyway, I have zero Linux there, and might I add that zero linux is running 40 faster than steam os desktop don't ask me why or how i just installed zero linux i didn't optimize zero linux for the steam deck i just installed it and it's running 40 faster are you seeing battery issues

because i could imagine that the i'm not running it on battery i'm just it's always plugged in right my my assumption is valve is doing some uh performance tweaking to get better battery life that would be with their kernel with their custom kernel people think that it's running people think at, I thought it was running an old kernel being the number 515. It's 515 with a lot of the current kernel features backported to it. Right, right. So if it says a lower number, it doesn't necessarily mean it's outdated. Is 515 an LTS kernel?

Yes. Yeah, well, that's why. And they're backporting all the tweaks from the 6th series to it, whatever they need, basically. But for some reason, it's running better on Zero Linux on desktop mode, but Zero Linux on the Steam Deck comes with its own caveat. There's no virtual keyboard. There's no controller

controller configuration support there's no i don't care for all these because i'm using it as a desktop yeah you just plug a keyboard mouse as a gaming if i want all the steam features i just unplug the zero linux drive and boot into team os and i don't use the touchscreen because there's a mouse and keyboard connected to it and I'm connecting it to dual monitors and it's handling dual monitors no problem. So with your swapping between

the OS's, is there no like have you not set it up to properly like dual boot where you can just swap between them in the bootloader? Do you actually manually swap between them? I set the external drive to be the default. So it boots off of

zero Linux drive, which has Grub. Which has Grub. And then I select... But for some reason, it's showing SteamOS twice in Grub. That is strange. I don't understand it. And by installing zero Linux, by using Zero Linux on the Steam Deck,

I discovered that Steam is using ButterFS with subvolume. That's cool. That is good. This is because it's immutable and it needs to take snapshots and stuff like that so it's logical for them to use btrfs so i'm like okay you're using btrfs but i use xfs so and we'll get into what happened with xfs and grub in a minute well we can get into it now if you want to i'm perfectly happy with that i want to ask you first okay something first because i want to give you something to say because i don't want to be talking all the time i get i get yelled

at for talking too much that's fine talk as much as you want it means i don't have to talk uh i want to ask you something. Have you ever followed the happenings and the goings on in the Grub realm? Or you just, as long as it works, you don't care? The last time I got involved in that space was the last Arch issue we had where Arch, what was the details then? last Arch issue we had where Arch... What was the details then? Arch wasn't reloading the Grub

config or something like that and that caused certain systems to not be able to boot. I can't remember the exact details. It was like a year... September issue. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that one. I don't remember the full details, but yeah, that's the last time I got involved with it.

That's the day they switched from involved with it. That's the day they switched from stable to git. Well, now there's a new issue. It happens mostly to XFS users. Sometimes happens to PTRFS users, but mostly it

happens to XFS users where if you select XFS and you install Arch Linux, any distro that uses Calamaris, basically, if you select XFS, after the install is done and you try to reboot, you will get a blank Grub Rescue. Okay. It's something to do with a kernel parameter and latest four releases of Grub,

which have the issue. Anything beyond R499,.06, R499, because now we're at 2.12 RC1. So if you're using XFS, GRUB would be, those versions of GRUB would be built against the old version of XFS progs, which causes it not to detect, because if you're installing a distro with calamaris-

Sorry, before you keep going on, is this the issue that you're talking about I just sent it on the discord yes so the if you install an arch based distro with calamaris and using xfs

it will create boot on the XFS. And you select auto partitioning, of course. It will put slash boot on an XFS partition, making Grub unable to read the slash boot. Because Grub and XFS are not very good friends. So in this case, I realized that when I installed Arch with the Arch install script,

there's a kernel parameter now that says XFS type equals, no, sorry, FS type, root FS type equals XFS. That's a kernel parameter that you need to add to the proper config. Then it will have no issues to it. Right.

So it's a bunch of issues i reported it upstream i even created two isos one with a patched grub so me and philip from manjaro uh well philip from manjaro mainly built a version of Grub with that faulty commit removed. He used didbysec to figure out which commit is faulty and then remove it and build the latest version. So I built an ISO with the patch Grub and an ISO with the default Grub, sent it upstream to Oracle, to the developers of Grub. So far, all I got was a reply saying, thank you for the report. And that was on the 13th.

Nothing ever since. They haven't fixed it. They released four versions after that. Still broken. So, Zero Linux has done something that users hate, but we have no choice. They held back the grub on our repos. Unfortunately, that's the only solution for now. Stick to what works.

Why move away? Especially that grub is in release candidate dash git that whatever, which shouldn't be the case. It should be stable and only stable. I'm waiting for 2.12 stable, and if it works, I'm going to stick zero on that until the next stable release. I'm no longer going to ship the Git releases that Arch keeps throwing down.

Best solution. It worked. And today, as we talked previously on various podcasts, that today, because of what Arch is going through Manjaro's holding back of packages are looking great. Well, you know, you could also just not use XFS. I haven't encountered any of those issues

on Manjaro because they hold back the packages. They're smart. You could also just not use XFS. That's another option. Well, I did drop XFS to instead of being default, now it's the last option. What's the default now? The default is EXT4. I'm not gonna put ButterFS as default because I don't know how to use it.

I don't understand it and I don't care for it. But users can select it. It's the second choice. Wait, so why did you have it as the default before then? You're going to laugh. Okay. You're going to have a lot of people weird comments. Sure. Okay.

That's nothing new. I only did that at first. I only did that because Nitrix OS set it as default. I was like, it's a known distro. They set it as default. I can't tie. Then I discovered real reason why one should set it as default. Because XFS, when you copy large files, it doesn't cache anything.

It just does a raw copy. There's no CPU overhead or memory overhead, so it doesn't use up your memory nor your CPU. Your CPU will be chilling at 10%, 15%. Whereas if you are using EXT4, if you are copying large files or a large number of small files your cpu will be uh used at 70 60 okay yeah 80 yeah i've cloned an entire two terabyte drive before i i i'm very well aware of this issue did he freeze did i lose? I think I lost him. Yeah, I- Oh! He's gone. Did I disappear? You did disappear. Welcome back. Oh, sorry. It's my iPhone for some reason. It disconnected. Oh, okay. Sure, that's not at all what I expected it to be, but sure. It happens.

So where was I? I was saying, so you were saying how EXT4 causes massive CPU usage when you're copying a lot of files. Massive CPU usage, especially when you're copying over network as well. It will get your CPU up in the 60s and 70s and 80s yeah up there yeah and i was saying with xfs i was saying that i've cloned an entire two terabyte drive before and that i've definitely seen that before yeah so that's the reason now i use xfs and i will not move away from it because i copy a lot of large files, movies, that I have definitely legally ripped. Mostly it's ISOs and a large number of small files, especially repo, Git repo files that I backup on my NAS.

God knows if that SSD dies, Zero Linux will go bye-bye. Although I have them on GitHub, but I'd like to have another copy locally. I do a lot of copies. I don't need my CPU to be stuck at, as I call it, pegged, and a lot of copies. I don't need my CPU to be stuck at the...

And as I call it, pegged. And a lot of people like to joke about pegged. But that's the expression we use. Pegged at 70%. No, that's a normal expression. They've just been on the internet way too long. They just need to go outside and touch some grass. They've been on the internet too long.

Yeah. So that's why I use XFS. I don't need the features of ButterFS. I don't do snapshots and all that because I am the distro maintainer. I know how to use my distro. I know how to troubleshoot things, even if the system is unbootable. I know how to ArchTrude, get the system bootable again. It's part of the muscle memory now.

get the system bootable again. It's part of the muscle memory now. ArchTruth needs to become muscle memory with everyone that uses Arch. This is your only rescue. If you don't know how to do that, you shouldn't be using Arch. So, yeah. I read a wiki every time something goes wrong.

Well, it's not wrong to go to the Arch wiki when it's something unrelated to Grub or booting issues, but for Grub, I mainly do Arch to root, reinstall Grub, done deal, it works. And I install Grub differently than other users. I add the dash dash removable flag because I have a tray where i replace a drive with another i have zero linux i mean zero g on this drive so if i want to boot from this i don't

do a boot on the thing i just remove the ssd that has yeah linux that's the correct way to do it exactly don't but if you have a laptop that's a little bit hard i have spoke like i've seen so many forum posts you were like oh i i deleted my entire drive when i tried to set up dual booting i bricked my system stop it just use if you have the option use two separate drives and just swap them in the bios that. That is all you need to do. Don't try to dual boot. Don't do it. It's dumb.

Or swap them physically. Yeah, or do that. If you've got an easy way to swap them, then go ahead and do that. I actually... And that... When I was dual booting with... Oh, sorry. Sorry.

I keep talking. But that bay was recommended to me by a friend. I wouldn't have thought about it. A friend of mine, he was like, I have talking. But that bay was recommended to me by a friend. I wouldn't have thought about it. A friend of mine, he was like, I have so many drives. I don't want them internal. I like to swap between them because they're mainly storage drives. I said, okay, I'll buy the cheapest one. I found one for like $30.

It has 2.5, one for 2.5-inch drives, and one for 3.5. Wait, so is this like an external bay you have? I'll send you the link to show it. I'll have a look at it. I keep it because I might want to buy another one. Okay, cool. If it still exists. If it's dead, it's dead.

It's fine if it is. When I... Here it is. Wait, am am i gonna dox myself maybe let's not show it's uh uh can i show this screen without showing my address i'm gonna you know look at the picture yeah we'll do that that's a much safer option upper drive is the boot drive. The lower 3.5 drive is a spinning rust that has the Linux storage. I mean, I throw everything back up. Before I reinstall Zero Linux, I do a time shift backup.

I put it on that 3.5 inch spinning rust. And that spinning rust is over 12 years old. I'll keep using it until it's dead. It's only... It's 500 gigs. It's still working. And those are so cheap these days, I can buy another

one. Yeah, like, can you even buy a 500 gig hard drive at this point? I don't even know. Yeah, you can. even buy a 500 gig hard drive at this point? I don't even know. There I think yeah, you can you can it's 500 and above 250 they're all there. Yeah, actually maybe maybe it's a bit different for what's in your market. Let's let's go my area Let's go. They're mostly Seagate's mostly Seagate. In, yeah, my local seller doesn't even sell them anymore Here they still sell the 500 gigs and they're old Seagate 7200 rpm, not the Barracuda and Fire Cuda and whatever. No, it's the old old, you know, with the white label,

white label drives. Oh, so it's okay, it's old stock then, right. Yeah, I can't imagine anyone still making 500 gig drives. Surely not. It's 12 years old. It's still running. It's one of those slim ones that don't make any noise and they don't rattle. So it's fine. As long as it's working. It's just for time shift. I don't put anything important on it.

If this drive dies, I can put time shift on another drive. I've got like seven drives in this system so no issues there but this to this hardware thing this bay is really important for for distro hoppers especially so if you want to be a distro hop use something like this don't affect your internal drives i have have Windows, a Windows 11 install that has survived me reinstalling Linux a thousand times because it's on a separate NVMe on the board that's completely disabled. Only I enable it

when I need to boot. Stop doing this petition thing. No, stop it. Bad. Don't do that. Only petition if you're going to be using the only ever petition a blank drive that has nothing else on it or only data that you're going to be using the... Only ever petition a blank drive that has nothing else on it or only data that you are happy to lose.

Don't try to... Don't resize petitions. Stop it. That's stupid. You're going to cause yourself a lot of pain. There are some people who partition their drives and install multiple distros. I'm aware.

That's who I'm talking about. Stop doing that. It's dumb. Like, I get it on a laptop but if you're if you have if you're using a desktop just please do something else anything like install it on a thumb drive like that's better than what you're trying to do some people do install it on the thumb drive. But boot times are hella hellish. I'm sure they're terrible.

So you were saying before that you didn't watch the full BigPod episode. Did you get to the bit where he talked about his terrifying data scheme? No. His main data drive is an NTFfs drive that he shares between oh yeah he keeps mentioning that on the dt cast of course he does yeah and c sharp is the best language yes it's fine the following episode after i had him on i had jeremy seller on and half the time he's like rust is the best language like okay speaking of rust speaking of rust uh i sent you a video a while ago to see

the the internal combustion of uh the people within rust from within like ages ago you said you were going to look at it but you never did i was wondering why i didn't want to push the subject oh uh rust oh yeah you did send that one. Yeah, Rust is being destroyed from the inside. Was that when all the Rust drama was happening? What was the context there? I don't recall. Yeah, where

there's a lot of corporations behind Rust, and it's becoming a conglomerate and whatever. They forked it into multiple versions. One of them is called Crab something. Yeah, I did hear about Crab. Crablang, I think is what they called it.

Crablang, yeah. It was forked into Crablang. It's Rust without all the corporate bullshit. So it's an interesting video you should make. No, but there's only this guy who made this video. That'll be interesting because, okay, although Rust is a good language to use, be careful where you get it from. Because there's a lot of people who, there's a lot of forks that pretend to be something they're not.

They say we are Rust without the corporate bullshit, but in the end, you discover that it's with opinionated and very negative people. You have to be careful which one you choose, but unfortunately, even rust is becoming fragmented.

If we're talking about Linux being fragmented, look at everything within Linux. If Linux as a whole is fragmented, everything within it is starting to become fragmented. I don't know how fragmented you can really call Rust at this stage. Not really. I'm not super up on what's happening,

but is Crablang a popular fork that people are making? There's multiple. There's Crablang, there popular fork that people are making? There's multiple. There's multiple. There's Crablang. There's Fishland, whatever. There's multiple names. I forgot the names. But it's not as fragmented as Arch yet, but it's on the way.

Sure. If it started with like three or four forks right now, it's going to keep growing and growing because each group has their own ideology of what Rust should be and how it should function and that's sad to see in Linux people keep saying Linux is not

fragmented, the more choice the better my mentality in Zero Linux is use Hicks' law, less is better unify your ideas. Share. Unfortunately, that's not being done.

I talked about a recent experience that happened to me nine times. It's too many times for comfort. I want to do one thing on zero-interest. I want to include one thing. And since I'm not a developer, sorry DT, I stole your tagline. I'm not a developer, sorry DT, I stole your tagline.

I'm not a developer. He's going to make t-shirts out of them. Oh, see. Since I'm not a developer, I go look for projects to fork and work off of. And I check the license first, because you always have to check the license. TPL v3, OK, fork, do whatever you want, ship it.

Nine times so far, I did it like 100 times, but nine times out of 100, not 100 times, I did it 50 times, but nine times out of 50, I got people, the creators of the project, coming at me, yelling at me, who allowed you to take our code and use it? I was like, you did. Your license did. The GPL license you shoved on your project allowed me to do that. They were like, no, we thought we only created, added a license because GitHub requested we add a add a license i'm like did you read the license no we just selected the first one available honestly github like there's probably

an option in there for some sort of like a source available license but it really should be a bit higher on the list it should be clear like Maybe that like before you even make a repo It's like do you want this to be source available or open source and give you a clear definition of like the two differences? Because I I don't have an issue if someone wants to be source available like I don't I think like that's stupid You should just make it open source, but like you have the right to make the code source available But like don't complain if you wanted it to be that and then you gave it the wrong license like oh well Look stop it. So you have a license Even if they did problem is nobody reads. Oh, no

No, unless you're a since that is unless you're like a big corporate project like it Yeah, well like are you gonna like sue some random like three-star project on github like one of the one of one of the people who came at me he was like i'm gonna sue you till until your last penny because you're trying to steal my project and he had a gp oh and that person had no license on their on their github in that in that case that's that's like the no license thing is a weird one because that's i've said before that i don't i don't think github should allow you to make a public repo that you have no license on like i maybe that's not your opinion but they've because no

license effectively means it's you've made it source available but it's not clear that that's your intention no license right now is look is looked at like i can do whatever i want i can rename it i can take credit i can i can do whatever i want you'd have to ask a lawyer the exact exactly how it would be handled but it yeah you could you could go with either approach either public domain or source available and i think both are probably reasonable interpretations but i'm not knowledgeable enough to really say i i did a little bit of digging. I took example from you because one should do one's research. So I did a little bit of digging. Lawyers, if you involve lawyers in a no-license situation, they will not touch it.

Right. They will not touch it because it's on you. You didn't put a license. Fuck you. Right. Sorry. But it's like you should be responsible for what for your own actions so uh he he he threatened to sue he was like i want to sue you i'm gonna i'm gonna get the

best lawyers on your on the case because you're trying to steal my project i just didn't want anything to do with it i just deleted it you know what you should do i didn't want to go send him uh the coordinates of the capital of lebanon and be like why why do you give me that like that's where i am do you want to try to do an international lawsuit the most costly one uh but uh yeah this is what's happening currently in the in the foss world uh you try to they tell you, here's this GPL33 license, fork it and use it. But they don't really mean that. They just blindly select whatever license is the first choice on GitHub or GitLab and call it a day.

They don't really mean anything. And people are not very friendly. It's the masses are silent right now. So the negative people are being heard louder. The people in the good

area of Linux are silent right now. They're doing what they're doing. They're working on whatever they're working on. And the negative people are screaming louder and they're doing what they're doing they're working on whatever they're working on and the negative people are screaming louder and they're being heard louder so i'm not i'm not i'm not really happy with what's going on especially which transitions very well into the redhead debacle well before we get to that like i i can't say i've i've seen anyone being like that aggressive when it comes to like project licensing but

you're not a distro maintainer I'm coming in from the perspective of a user who's just messing around with this code but you're lucky enough to be in contact with a lot of good people like

Vox3 and the people from... What's it called? The big 16 gig ISO. What's it called? You had to develop one of the developers of that. I forgot the name of it. But the educational one. The educational distro. Oh, I've i blanking on the name now um not

give me a second you had one of the i i i i didn't know why i'm blanking on the name what is what is the project called endless os i was gonna say elementary but no i always get those names confused endless os yeah endless. Yeah. EndlessOS. Yes. You are in contact with these people. But being a distro maintainer, I am in contact with... I go deep down into the

belly of the beast. AKA the Arch Forums. AKA the Gen 2 places. The ugliest part of the things. So I do see negativity a lot. We can help you, but we don't wanna. We can help you, but we don't wanna. I think when it comes to places like the Arch forum and the gen 2 forum they are very or the gen 2 irc irc gen 2 irc yeah sure um it's not that people aren't willing to help it's that

a lot of people are not willing to deal with people who are not going to put the effort in to help themselves like a recent example was with the Python virtual environment situation. So, when that change came in, for anyone who doesn't know, on Arch, Debian, Ubuntu, and a couple of other distros, you now can't use pip to install packages globally. It'll give you a warning

saying that the global environment is managed externally. When this came in for Ubuntu, there was a lot of comments on AskUbuntu, StackOverflow was a lot of comments on ask ubuntu stack overflow a bunch of other places where people were posting the entire error message saying what does this mean now if you read the error message it tells you command for command what you need to do these people had not read the error message they just saw an error message and then posted it now a lot of people were given

advice on how to fix now some of that advice was really bad like delete the error message or or like use dash dash break system packages both of which are really bad ideas but in the context of arch you're expected to at least do that like minimal effort of like reading that error message and going through what it says there and in the arch case it actually gives you a bit more information telling you the package name you need to install to get pipx available i think it's like python dash pipx or something like that yeah so on arch you're sort of more expected to have gone through those steps yourself. It's when those people come from a district like Ubuntu and then expect that same level of support when they're not willing to put in the effort themselves.

Now, I'm sure there are absolutely people that are, you know, just assholes for the sake of being assholes. But, and maybe those people stand out a lot as well because, you know, they are the negative people. But at least from what I've seen, like I've dug through mailing lists upon mailing lists, forums upon forums. Most people seem to be positive, but there are definitely going to be those bad apples. The bad apples mostly tell you if you don't know how to fix, how to use Python, just don't use it. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that definitely.

Or other people would say, if you don't know how to use Python, don't use a distro that uses Python. Yes. Or install Linux. Don't install Linux. But in the case of Python, we all had to discover it ourselves. So this is why the motto and the catchphrase of zero Linux is where learning is the norm and self-reliance is king. This is what you're supposed to do on Arch Linux and any Arch-based distro. Don't come here expecting Arch Linux or any Arch-based

distro to be like Ubuntu, holding your hand every step of the way. We do our best to add options, like Zero Linux created a script. I did create the script, where you have troubleshooting area, like, for example, restart pipewire and pipewire pulse, because that issues happen a lot with Pipewire, as we all know.

Yep, yep. So instead of asking the user to run the command, just open the script, select option number five, it will do it for you. For Grub, same thing. Command that will

run downgrade and import the new pacman.conf, which has the repo where we're holding back the package. And so on and so forth. So many troubleshooting features have been added to Zero Linux as a script. And the reason I do it as a script is because I want users to see what's happening to their system, to learn from what's happening in the system. Not because I want to, because a lot of people tell me, why don't you hide the terminal? Why don't you make it completely invisible?

I was like, that's not the point. The point is I want users to see what's going on to their system. Maybe they will learn a thing or two. Anyway, so we do our best, but we cannot hold your hand every step of the way. When it comes to laptops, some people in India, for example, they buy laptops of questionable branding, like Infinix, iFix, and whatever, with proprietary Wi-Fi chips that are low-budget Wi-fi chips that won't work on linux or in the case of rog you buy the two-in-ones well linux doesn't doesn't isn't built for two-in-ones yet as far as i know so you will have to finagle your way to get it maybe there's a distro out there that works i don't know because they they accept the existence of two and ones i don't know but as far as arch linux it's all granular you have to do everything

manually yourself you have to add support yourself there is support maybe but it's not built into arch arch is a system you build yourself that's's the point of Arch. That's the whole point of Arch. You build it yourself. They give you the base, and then you start building block by block your system until it starts functioning the way you want. That's the point of ZeroLinux. We go by the Arch philosophy. We give you a good-looking desktop so you don't have to do the desktop part, but everything else is up to you to shape. Because if I select an option, I say, okay, Zero Linux uses SE Linux. Zero Linux uses Unbox. Zero Linux does that. They will be forced to use these things or forced to start uninstalling stuff. We go by the Arch philosophy.

Have a base system, then build upon that. Build everything upon that. So, Xeronics, I'm happy to say, has reached its potential for me. There will be small things being added here and there, tweaks and whatever, but it's done. It's a desktop environment that you can shape your i'll keep fixing issues and adding fixes from time to time that's it yeah

uh but now i want to talk about the the the whole uh um red hat thing one last thing we'll get just a moment okay one last thing um on the topic of 2M1s, there are a couple... I just was doing a quick search. There are a couple that do work quite nicely. Apparently, the HP X360 and Lenovo Yoga 9, they have styluses as well, and they're treated like a Wacom tablet, and they work just fine.

Yeah, you said Lenovo. Lenovo is very friendly with Linux, but... I don't know if it's like a general thing, but those two devices seem like they're good. Yeah, HP. HP has never been great with Linux, except minus the one that came in.

Apparently there's one device. Apparently people are saying the X360 is a really great device on Linux. Not Asus laptops. Not that I'm seeing on this list. Wait, no, I see someone mentioned the ROG Flow. Maybe. Okay.

But speaking of the ROG, there's a community out there called the ROG Linux community. That's rog-linux.org if you want to go there. Okay. The link is included in my tool. Do you mean asus-linux.org? Yeah. Yeah, okay, you said ROG.

Asus-linux.org. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I said ROG, sorry. It's asus-linux.org. They have a Discord as well. Okay. Their only thing in life is to add support to ROG Lab.

When it comes to fan control, they have their own application to control the fans, RGB, control the CPU, everything to have better battery life and so on and so forth. Their only job is for ROG laptop so maybe users can find something related to rog 2 and 1s over there i don't know i just added the links to my tools point away this is wow there's a lot of documentation here this is kind of impressive this is really impressive and someone pointed me to it ages ago but they're, they're very friendly. There's very few bad apples over there, but most of them are really positive. I love communities.

Why aren't there more and more communities like that? Linux, please, make me happy and enjoy it. To use Linux, because a lot of people come to me, they're like and enjoy it to use Linux because a lot of people come to me they're like, I wanted to use Linux but nobody's willing to help right they expect me to do everything on my own I'm like

well, nowadays we don't really have Linux user groups like we would have you know, 10, 15 years ago so a lot of the stuff is like online communities and online communities tend to get very very nichey and tend to get like and when you ask yeah and when you ask for support they tell you uh they tell you they expect you to have a minimum knowledge of Linux. Like, I do too, but because I am an Arch-based distro,

I expect users to come to an Arch-based distro having a minimum amount of Linux knowledge. But if you're going to Debian or Mint or whatever, Debian is not really a beginner distro. No, definitely not. Unless you just use it as is, which is, I don't know how you would use it as is. Like Mint and Ubuntu, definitely. Mint and Ubuntu. Mint and Ubuntu, if they're using that, yes.

This is where they should be. But coming immediately to Arch, this is the wrong thing to do. I say it, I minimize the paragraph on my website, And I'm working on a new website, by the way. But I minimize the paragraph. Now it's a couple of sentences. It tells them, if you have zero knowledge about NLinux, don't use zero Linux. It's arch-based.

I'm not going to be there to help you for your stuff. But anyway, I keep repeating the same stuff every episode. So I really want to get into the nitty gritty of the red hat. I keep repeating the same stuff every episode. So. I really want to get into the nitty gritty. Of the red hat stuff. We'll talk about the red hat stuff. I know I keep sending you different directions. We'll talk about it. But because I am a different.

I have a different point of view. Than a lot of people. My point of view is. They are correct to do what they are doing To a certain degree The way they are doing it is a little bit questionable I'm not talking about the way they are doing it I'm talking about the action itself

Okay Monetizing Or putting support And some of the server code Behind the Paywall code behind the paywall, sort of a paywall. It's not really a 100% paywall. It's a weird one.

I don't know what to call it. Well, there is the free developer license, so you can still access the code. What they are restricting is the distribution of the code through the use of that license. But a lot of distributions owe a lot to Red Hat. Without Red Hat, for example, desktop environments wouldn't have existed. They created the XTG portals, they created the uh... I wouldn't say they wouldn't exist. They wouldn't exist in the state they're in.

In the state they're in. Gnome definitely wouldn't be as functional as it is today without Red Hat. They owe a lot to Red Hat. And on the desktop front, desktop environment front, and end user,

like regular user, from their perspective, they're not going to be affected. Why are they yelling and screaming with pitchforks and everything? If they're just yelling at the way Red Hat is going about it, I'm okay with that.

But there's a lot of them, they're just doing it for the sake of doing it. They just want to spread hate. Okay, it's affecting the free open source world, the ideology, in a certain way. But it's not really affecting it. It's not really causing desktop environments to die. It's not causing applications to die. It's not causing applications to die. It's not causing anything.

It's just on the server front, yes. But we're not talking about the server front. The server front is for the server people, for the people who got and on the server front they have money so they can afford to pay a license.

Okay, they don't want to but that's up to them why should we hate for the server people it's not affecting us in the end why should we hate something that's not affecting us that's my whole argument well i think one part you're you're forgetting about is a lot of people in the desktop space are also people in the server space as well. Like, there is definitely that overlap between those people. So, there is definitely a lot of people who are being directly affected by this. Also, when we are talking about licenses, when we're talking, like, you know, a big company, like Google, for example. Like, if they have to pay some license fees. It doesn't matter.

Whatever. They're going to make their own thing anyway. I think they have an internal version of Ubuntu. That was a bad example. Take like some mid-tier company. They have like, you know, 100 employees. They have to pay for a license. Like that, you know, makes sense.

They can afford it. There are a lot of cases where you have, like, educational usage, you have more, like, you know, small-scale companies that are just starting up where maybe they can't actually afford those license fees, but they can still get value out of the system that's being provided here. Now, you could say, well, maybe let's just go and use Debian. But up until, you know, a couple of years ago, you had CentOS available, and then up until very recently, you also had AlmaLinux and RockyLinux operating as a spiritual successor of what CentOS was. do they need to be on something that is one-to-one compatible with RHEL?

That's something I can't say. That's something that is dependent on their specific business case. Maybe a lot of these systems would be perfectly fine on CentOS Stream or some other distro out there. I think the major issue comes down to the fact that it seems really disingenuous from Red Hat that they cannot keep providing, you know, they couldn't keep providing CentOS, they can't keep providing to AlmaLinux and RockyLinux in the same form they've been doing because it's not sustainable. Where since the beginning of the company, they have operated under this model and they've become this massively successful business.

It's just out of nowhere, all of a sudden, that this model is just now no longer sustainable. And that, I think, is where people get a little bit weird about it and think there's clearly more to it than just like, oh, it's not sustainable now. That's not what's happening. You've been successful up until now, so at least be honest about it.

The way I look at it is they've been giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving when it comes to desktop and end user stuff without asking in return. And other distributions making money off of their backs. It's a similar situation I suffered on 0Linux,

but this is not here nor there. But they're making money off of Red Hat's back. And Red Hat was like, we need to put an end to this. They're taking bug for bug copies of our code, and they're making money off of it. We need to start doing something about it. We need to limit that kind of behavior. So maybe they studied and they did research, or they did some thinking and whatever, and then they saw no other way to do it but to put a donation, or I mean a paywall thing in front of it to stop people making money off of their back. The way they went about it, yes, is a kind of weird, kind of janky, not user-friendly.

Just one day they just told people, hey, it's not sustainable. Yes, I agree. I think the other big thing with that, sorry for cutting you off. I think the other big thing is that they're just saying, we're stopping now. It's not like you have until the next version you have until this day. It's like, we're done now go away. Like that's,

I think the really big thing. Same with what happened with, uh, with send to us when they pulled the, they pulled everything like out from under send to us. Like people were in the middle of migrating systems at that point. Like if, if you give people a deprecation period,

which red has generally really good with, like they, I think, um, EXORC is marked for deprecation in Red Hat. And I think the deprecation date is like 2025 or something ridiculous. Like, that gives people a lot of time to work out what they're going to do, move systems around, maybe start paying for a license or migrate to something else. But when you just say out of the blue, hey, Alma Linux, Rocky Linux,

you know, all the people that are using it, no, stop. Like they're allowed to do that. Don't get me wrong. They are absolutely allowed to do it. Not that way. But not that way has everything has a certain period like when you quit your job you have to give a 30-day prior notice they don't have to give you prior notice if you're in the u.s they can just fire you i don't know what lebanon's like but in here we need it like they need to give like a like a notice if they're gonna fire you but yeah someplace in the u.s they can just be like no go away don't come in tomorrow no i'm talking about if you want to quit sure sure yeah no you have to give 30 days prior not a notice to the company saying yeah i'm leaving they tell you

okay you have to you have to stay here without uh uh without pay for 30 days oh that's definitely not a thing here that's no they still keep paying you until last day. They just don't pay. That's crazy. In Lebanon, no. In Lebanon, you have to give 30 days prior notice, but they don't pay you for the last month. Jeez.

Just work for free for 30 days. In Europe, when I worked for Apple in Ireland, southern Ireland, the European part of Ireland, the European part of Ireland, the good part of Ireland, sorry, they paid me until the last day. Yeah, yeah. And plus, the best part of working for Apple is I worked for eight months,

and then for three months, I was down and out for depression and whatever but i was getting and i wasn't working i was getting paid full salary for not working and i had 20 or i don't know how however many uh therapist sessions free of charge on apple jesus so i was like cool i guess and then i got the hell out of dodge i came back to lebanon but because of the explosion in 2021 the thing but anyway uh so yes red hat is doing something not wrong but the way they're doing it is kind of iffy and I don't like it. And that's where

people are yelling maybe, but there are places where people are saying, hey, it's the end of free open source and free open source is dead. No, it's not dead. It's... Come on. Okay, there's one guy

on Discord who told me what Red Hat did might trickle down to desktop environments who will feel the same way and start putting their projects behind a wall. Because Red Hat did it. Why can't they? He just said,

don't be surprised if one day, like GNOME, for example, he was using it just as an example. It doesn't mean that it's going to happen. But imagine GNOME did the same thing. One day they decided you want to use GNOME or fork money. Maybe he's right. We don't know. We cannot judge the future because it hasn't happened yet.

Well, I think that's a little bit different. Like, okay. If, how, wait, where am I going with this? Wait, let me think this one through. Control-Alt-Delete. Control-Alt-Delete your brain. In the Red Hat case, the issue was people taking the code base and then just rebuilding it as their own separate product.

Whereas the way that a desktop environment is distributed is the code is there and then distros distribute it as GNOME. This is just a build of GNOME. It's not like this is Arch Linux GNOME. This is whatever name you want to call it. this is Arch Linux GNOME, this is, you know, this is whatever name you want to call it.

The distros are just shipping it as is, giving direct credit to the project, not trying to directly monetize it for their own income. No. I'm not saying that. I'm saying GNOME themselves. Sure, sure.

What the guy meant, I think what the guy meant was if GNOME themselves. Sure, sure. What the guy meant, I think, I think what the guy meant was if GNOME themselves decide to ask distro maintainers for money to include GNOME in their distribution. I think that would just, I think that would just, like maybe if a pro like GNOME tried it but anything smaller scale than that that would just kill a project yeah but he was just using it as an example he was yeah no i'm not saying it like let's imagine like okay let's let's just go like full on with it like let's say you know the linux kernel was like hey charges to include the linux kernel in your distro. I think the... Obviously, that's a ridiculous example, but you

could go smaller scale, you could say GIMP, you could say Critter, you could say whatever project you want to go with. I think the backlash a project would get from that is to the point where you actually would see a viable fork happen, because it's not like any project is

a monolitholith especially a project like this where like most projects are community managed so it's not like there is a company where everyone has to tow the company line you would have people who are like very very well versed in the code base who are like this is just not gonna happen and actually like try to try to operate a a proper fault. Going back to the I think what 2005 2006 you had when x386 Decided they wanted to change their license to be incompatible with the GPL that caused this

incompatible with the GPL, that caused this massive loss of developers who shifted over to go and start a new project called XORG. And I could see if a project of, like, large enough scale tried that, that's pretty much what would end up happening. Now, not a guarantee, like, it's very possible people would just, like, know and just stop shipping the package and the project dies. But I don't see a system, unless it became like socially acceptable to start charging for packages at like a smaller scale, like some tech said to start doing it and then slowly building up from there. That's the only way I could see that really possibly happening. That's the only way I could see that really possibly happening. If it happened from like the big project down, that would cause way too much of an outrage for anybody to think it's socially acceptable to try it.

Yeah, it's just a... How should I put it? It's just a... The dystopian future that might happen if people start putting money on everything uh where i hope we're not headed there uh so i think a model that might we might start seeing more is similar to what the git lab and bitwarden model is where you have a community edition and then a paid edition that has additional features like in uh bitwarden for example i think you i think you can't use a yubi key unless you have the paid version i'm pretty sure yeah um and then gitlab

professional has a bunch of like ci features that most people don't really need, but if you want to actually access them, you've got to pay them, I think it's like $5, $10, something like that, I don't remember exactly how much it is. Same like Sublime Text, for example. Sublime Text, they ask for $99 a year?

One time? One time. Okay, one time. I don't have an issue. I treat that sort of like a donation to me. I don't really... If you want to charge a one-time fee... Yeah, but $99, that's a lot. Yeah, but...

Is it one-time fee through versions? Or is it just a buy that version? Just that version Just that person I think And the upgrade the upgrade fee is much cheaper, but like $45 or something $40 or oh Wait Wait. If you're not in a license... I bought... My business by license...

Wait, it's... I'm sorry, wait. Is it $80? Hold up. No, the upgrade price is not $80, is it? Oh, maybe. I forgot. Because I bought it back in...

Wait, so personal licenses are a once-off purchase and come with three years of updates. After three years, an upgrade will be required to receive further updates our license key is all you need okay upgrade upgrade fit how much is the upgrade unless i'm missing something i think the upgrade is 80 so the the base price is 99 the upgrade is 80 surely i'm missing something no i think it is 80 it when i saw it for 40 it was a discount okay now that's ridiculous yeah i can i share my screen with you you can try i don't know what's gonna happen if you do. Let me try.

I need to hide this. Oh, okay. I'll just... Yeah, it messed up the layout. It's fine. I'll just show it on the screen. I'll fix the layout after it's too good. Okay Can you see the... I can see it. Yes It's a bit blurry Can I full screen it? Yeah, there we go. Now I can see it. Cool. Yeah. Register to Zero Linux Inc.

Unlimited user license. Right. I'll stop sharing now. Anyway. I bought that license for Arch Merge. I mean, Sublime Merge and Sublime Text. What is Sublime Merge?

So $99, well, I got it, when you buy both, I think you get a discount. Yeah, there was a discount there, yeah. Something around 80 bucks for both. But I paid for those for Zerolinux. This is company expense. Well, Zerolinux is not a company, but air quotes company expense. Right, right, right. not a company, but air quotes company expense.

Right, right, right. Because I use Sublime Text for everything. I don't use Kate. Sublime Text just has... It's lighter than Kate. Kate is a little bit heavier because it's a KDE thing. But Sublime Text is good. And Sublime Merge is amazing for Git repositories. You can just edit whatever you want to edit in the repo. Just Git push, Git pull using... It's kind of like GitHub Desktop, but it's way lighter. It's light as a feather. I didn't even know Sublime Merge existed. Sublime Merge is a super light, super, super, super light GitHub Desktop clone.

I love it. It works for my needs. I just change a few lines in a git and push. But I bought those things. But I see the future becoming like kind of having a lot of projects, small projects, applications, having a free. Because Sublime Text, you can use it unlimited for free. There's no like catches or anything, but you'll be nagged with a, if you save a lot,

if you have an open session and you save over 50 times in the same session, you get nagged with this, oh, remember, this is not a free product. Please pay, whatever. I got annoyed by that, so I bought the license. Because I save a lot. I save over 1,000 times per session because I'm a distro maintainer. So, yeah, things will take that route because they're allowed to. Like I'm doing, for example, able to keep the project afloat. I needed to find a way to monetize the project.

So I'm monetizing the ISOs. But still, they can build them. The number of people who build those spins versus the amount of people who are donating to get the ISOs is higher. amount of people who are donating to get the ISOs is higher. There's less people donating for the ISOs than there are people just building it, which is good

for me. It tells me that they are willing to learn, willing to go outside the box. But that's not helping the project survive. That's a two-sided two-bladed, two-sided two two-bladed two sides to every whatever I don't know

metaphor you got with that yeah I got two sides to the same coin? I don't know maybe yeah something like that oh my god my my Fossildon is blowing up anyway it's Oh my god, my my Fostodon is blowing up.

Anyway, it's like, we say it in Arabic silah zu haddain. I don't know how to say it in English. But anyway, on one side it's helping users learn while they're building it, and on the other

side it's not helping the project survive, because there's no way to monetize so even if I have a merch store I cannot buy my own merch be able to advertise it to be able to sell it oh I have a merch store but I cannot because the cap if I want to buy the cap I'm the creator the price on the end user is 25 bucks but for me it's like 17 bucks right if i get it because i'm the creator i can order it but if it arrives here i have to pay 78 bucks i'm sorry what yeah is that welcome to my life import taxes what is that about they take there's the import tax and there's the clearance fee. The import tax is 15% and then

there's 40% clearance fee. So that's 55% on top. What? Yeah, welcome to Lebanon, my friend. Okay. This watch on the website was 160 bucks.

When it landed in Lebanon, I had to was 160 bucks. When it landed in Lebanon, I had to pay 220 bucks. Here's an idea for you, okay? Here's an idea. Move away from Lebanon! Yes, that's an idea. Here's an easier idea. Get a generic cap,

okay, and put like a sticker of the ZeroLinux logo on there, and say you can get a less terrible version and put like a sticker of the zero linux logo on there and say you can get a less terrible version of this hat on the store that's a good idea why not there's a t-shirt too i will stick a bigger sticker on it but uh yeah i'm working on that uh uh i'm traveling soon so maybe i'll order them to where i'm traveling to, bring them back with me. I'm going to Greece. Nice. Greece is only an hour away from here.

Oh, wow. Anyway, by flight. Yeah. But I prefer to go by boat. By boat, it will take two weeks. I prefer boat. I hate flying. But, yeah, so at the end of the day,

people are allowed to monetize their projects. Yeah. The GPL v3 license does not disallow that. But out of the goodness of my heart, I didn't charge for the code. The code is there. You can use it. It's for free. But if you're not willing to use it, you I didn't charge for the code. The code is there. You can use it. It's for free.

But if you're not willing to use it, you have to donate to get the ISO. And people are less buying because I had to increase the price because it was $5 before. Now it's $10 because of the situation here. People should understand that my country is not getting better. It's getting worse. So, like, for example, now my connection is not getting better it's getting worse so like for example now my connection is in the yellow it has never been in the yellow on discord this is a this is the first time i see

it in the yellow so internet connection is getting worse you're probably connecting to the like the sydney server so maybe there's also that. I don't know. Maybe. No, and my ISP has been having issues where I cannot run Pac-Man SYU. That's a problem. After a lot of research, I discovered where the problem is coming from. That ISP, I have two ISPs.

I have this one I'm using right now, which is the good one. And I have a worse one that I use for redundancy. Right. You know how much we pay for internet over here? It's either going to be really low or insanely high. Count my fingers. Yeah, two. Two bucks.

Oh, okay. Sure. But what do we get? What do do we get eight megabits down that's usable that's not that's that's really you know if i had two dollars like that's you know that's good but the other isp uh it's called idm inco data data management two companies merge into one. Basically, they're all resellers. Main ISP is called Ogero. Everybody resells from the main one. They have different packages, different whatever. IDM, if I run sudo pacman syu or my alias, which is update, I get GPGME

no data error. Okay. If you look that up, but you have to dig to find the exact reason why. You will find on Arch a lot of fixes, none of them work. Because the issue is not from Arch, it's from the ISP itself.

Their clock is off by one minute on the ISP itself. Their clock is off by one minute on the ISP server side. Hmm. Is off by one minute. And that's enough for Pac-Man to go in a loop.

That means, wait. That means they had to have manually set the time. No. They don't use NTP. Okay. Our ISP doesn't even know what Linux is. They call it Linish.

Okay. When I called them to ask about. Because when I reached. To that point. I called them. And told them I run Linux. And when I reached to that point, I called them and told them, I run Linux. And when I update, the time needs to be perfect in sync with the central time. The guy was like, you're running what?

Linish? Linish? Lunush? Lanash? I was like, no, Linux. He was like, what's that? I was like, okay, you don't know what Linux is he was like

sir install macOS or Windows like normal people then call us back at this point I was like it's a lost cause so I will use the ISP that works to update and call it a day the reason I don't use the reason the other ISP I don't use much is because the upload speed is 128 kilobytes per second. Wow, now that's a speed. When I want to upload an ISO of zero Linux, it takes 14 hours.

We don't have power for 14 hours to be able to upload the ISO. So on the other ISP that I use that is kind of slow, but the upload speed is 8 to 16 megabits up, so it takes me 20 minutes to upload the ISO. Wait, it's higher than your download?

Yeah. The upload is higher than the download. Okay, sure. That's a weird ratio but because this ISP is the ISP I'm talking about is black market ISP I don't know where they're getting their internet from they're just hooking into someone

else's cables they they some people say he's getting his internet via satellite from Cyprus I don't know but hey as long as it's better than the other one why not on the download speed not great on the other isp that doesn't work for updates i get a download of 16 but an upload of 0.5 on this one i get a download of 8 but an upload of 16. So it's opposite.

One has the correct ratio, the correct weight ratio, the other one has the reverse. Okay. Sure. We have it weird over here. So it's Lebanon. Hey! But on the bright side, I was playing Zonotic with some friends. Right.

And Zonotic was running at 120 frames per second on the Steam deck on Zero Limit. Zonotic runs at 100. Zonotic runs great at everything. Like that's great. I love Zonotic. We were playing Zonotic and they noticed that I had a better ping than they did.

Uh huh. Guess we're closer to the servers. Yeah must have been. I guess it would have been like a european server of some sort i don't know but uh they were they always had the delay and on matt's podcast we're always out of sync when we do the claps uh i guess my latency is better than uh zany's because he's always out of sync. He's always 5 seconds, 20 seconds behind. Internet in Lebanon has a good ping

but a bad download upload. Crap. People have to be patient when I'm uploading an ISO because sometimes it says, okay, 24 minutes remaining. I go for 15 minutes, come back, 4 hours remaining. I'm like, okay, 24 minutes remaining. I go for 15 minutes, come back, four hours remaining. I'm like, okay.

And I upload to, and it's not only my connection, I upload to SourceForge. There's SourceForge. Right. But we're working on an idea right now to host our ISOs on our server with a download counter. We have somebody working on the back end for a download counter because I cannot live without a download counter. We have somebody working on the back end

for a download counter because I cannot live without a download counter. I need to know how many people are downloading Zero Linux. So until we get that sorted, it's going to stay on SourceForge. But hey. And the last thing I want to ask you. I want you to...

I want to ask you something. With the whole change that's happening uh in linux uh there's a lot of shifts happening like grub is changing the way it's handling things requiring different additional kernel parameters with python now working differently, requiring a virtual environment. The whole shift, the paradigm shift in packages like that. Okay. I'm seeing Linux is becoming a little bit more difficult for regular users to use. I'm not talking about the Mint and Ubuntu of the world.

I'm talking about the Fedoras, the Fedora is kind of rolling. And more and more distributions are becoming using the immutable file system. And more and more distributions are using the BlendOS and VanillaOS style of having catering to everyone kind of scenario using Distro box and everything. Because to me, someone, Zaini said on Matt's podcast, if you try to appeal to everyone, you appeal to no one.

For sure. So do you think that's true? And do you think that's a good, something positive that's happening? All the immutable and the complications that are happening in different distros, adding more complexity. I think the immutable system is an interesting model. I think the issue that we're seeing is it's often being sort of directed towards those beginner users. And if you only live within that immutable environment and the system as it is, is perfectly fine for you. Like you just need like a, you know, you want to set it up for a

family member who just uses a web browser. They just check their emails, check Facebook, a system like that, no issue whatsoever. I think the real issue happens when you are somewhat technical and you want to start sort of exploring your system because a lot of the material you'll see online is based around not having an individual system. Like if you look up any sort of tutorial for Fedora it's going to be assuming regular Fedora. If you look up a tutorial for Arch it's going to be assuming regular Arch and not BlenderOS with Ubuntu, you know, ViddlerOS, things like that.

So, a lot of that material just basically has to be thrown out if you're going to be using an immutable system. Now, I think with an immutable system, they don't necessarily... My iPhone just... Because it's overheating due to the heat oh

i lost what you said earlier is my camera showing no camera's not showing no we're back now okay cool uh where did you stop hearing me at before you started talking i cannot uh reply to you wait just before i started saying anything Teti? I cannot reply to you, Teti. Wait, just before I started saying anything? Yeah, you started saying something and then... Okay, the government doesn't want you to hear me. So, basically... basically basically I was saying that immutable systems are

being generally directed towards a fairly beginner audience this is fine if you just I find it wrong eh? I find it kind of wrong to

say they're beginner user friendly. What I'm saying is that they're being directed towards beginner users, not necessarily they are. If you're someone who just lives in a browser and doesn't ever leave it, it's perfectly fine. The problem is someone who is a beginner user who also wants to start getting more involved in their system and start digging around with what's going on. That's where it becomes a really big problem because a lot of the material you have out there is going to be based around a system that isn't immutable. Like if you look up something on the Fedora Wiki, it's gonna be about regular Fedora. You look up a Fedora tutorial or an Ubuntu tutorial or an Arch tutorial, it's not going to be assuming the

immutable variant, it's going to be assuming a non-immutable one and all of that material is basically useless then yeah but if a regular user, a beginner user tries

to use immutable file system without knowing what immutable file systems without knowing what immutable file systems are and containerization is, they're going to have a bad time. Don't tell beginner users that this is for you, this is for you, this is for you, because they're going to... We keep saying that immutable file systems,

it's very hard to break them. No, they're easy we keep saying that immutable file systems it's very hard to break them no they're easy to break them because i broke uh steam os desktop mode multiple times even though it is an immutable file system because i started installing regular packages without knowing that i cannot and without understanding the real aspect of immutable files. Do you know enough to be dangerous with an immutable system? I think the difference is is someone a beginner user who's trying to learn Linux

or are they someone who you've just taken their family's computers and installed Linux on it? In that case, that person was never going to try to start installing packages, but you know enough about your system to be able to damage it. Like in that case, like that person was never going to try to start installing packages, but you know enough about your system to be able to damage it. Well, not really. I used it from an end user perspective. Like I started installing regular,

like regular packages. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like you're someone who's treating it like a regular Linux system. Yeah. So I installed native binaries and ended up breaking the system. So that's what an end user is going to end up doing. And so they can break an immutable file system. Well, not really break it, but just break the desktop. Because after an update, an image update,

because this is how immutable file systems work, you got root A, route B, and how they reverse. They're going to end up, oh, after a major upgrade, an image upgrade, oh, everything I did to my system is gone. I don't have my dock, my menu,

my little icons, my beautiful Hannah Montana stuff on the desktop. What happened? Well, yeah. Immutable file systems, not for everyone. I think one place that can really start to address this is we need tooling to be able to better and more easily generate images.

Like this is something that UBlue is trying to do with like better documentation on how to like make your own custom images. But you need something to be as simple as a software store like you click i want this software this software this software it makes a new image and then it just boots into that that's what we need to make it really viable or or disable the ability to install native packages that go into the system just enable flatbacks when we have flatbacks that are wide enough available wide enough to make that viable, yes.

And I think... That's a problem. Yeah. And I think also you can alleviate the problem with also like making wrappers around DistroBox like Vanilla OS has. But it needs to be like as obvious to use as something. Or even just replacing the system package manager, to be honest. Like replacing apt with this other system. Yeah. But here's another thing.

Mixing and matching package managers on the same system. I see it kind of dangerous. Because if you give Debian users, like Vanilla OS, access to the AUR. Although you're doing it in a container, but it's still using your home directory, and it's still using your host OS.

If you mess things up, you're going to mess things up bad. Because not everybody is following, not everyone is following the XG portal philosophy. You still end up with things outside the.com page. Yeah, but even so, what sort of damage

are you really going to do in that case? You're going to have some files floating around. A lot of files floating around, and... I don't know. To me, it's kind of weird to... I'm not saying it shouldn't be done. It me, it's kind of weird. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done.

It shouldn't be set for beginner users. That's all. No, I think that's the case. I think that it's not a great idea to direct them towards beginner users even though it seems at the face of it like that's who should be using it. Because they treat it as unbreakable.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everything can break. Everything is breakable. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not, everything can break. Everything is breakable. It's not this whole stigma saying, oh, immutable file systems, unbreakable. They're virtually unbreakable. No one can break them, even if you try it. My grandma cannot break it.

I'm like, if she tries hard enough, she's going to break it. Well, I'm sure your grandma can't break it because she doesn't know what she needs to run to break it. Like, as I was saying before, if you are someone who just lives... If you give this to someone who their entire reason for using a computer is checking their emails and using a web browser,

that person, like, they're not going to notice if they're on immutable, if they're on... Like, it doesn't matter. If they have the browser there, it's going to be the exact same experience. Yeah, well, when I'm talking about an end user user i'm talking about the end users that we have today that mess around with their system a lot they change the the thing here the config here the config there and a lot of a lot of beginner users there's this idea behind linux that i don't know where they get

it from because it's the opposite that's being said in the Linux realm, is Linux can run on a potato laptop. Yes, Linux hardware support for legacy hardware is better than Windows, that's for sure. It doesn't support each and every hardware that exists. Right. Hardware support, like when it comes to recent devices,

newer devices, it's it flips it's flipped on its head it's windows that supports it versus linux there's a lot of users new users that buy a laptop just like that yeah uh without thinking about it they just buy it because either it's cheap or it's exactly what they want, whatever the reason might be. And then they think about Linux. And they try to install Linux and they say, oh, Linux doesn't work on my laptop. Linux is shit. I'll go back to Windows. I've heard these stories before, but I've never actually experienced it myself.

All of my cases of installing Linux on a laptop, maybe I've just been lucky, but it's been fine for me. You consider yourself lucky. Like I was with my desktop. I had my desktop for a couple of years before I started using Linux. And so far, the hardware support, perfect. Minus Wayland. When you're dealing with buying hardware,

especially laptops get weird because of Wi-Fi cards. And there are some that are especially on the cheaper models where they're still a bit weird but with desktop hardware I think your best bet is just don't buy current generation. If you just buy the generation behind it's always going to be fine That is

and don't buy questionable brands like Flinklinks and Kumpinks and Cinejinks and Shoe Top or like PSX1 kind of laptops

from Alibaba, yeah, those they will have no support. There's a user on my Discord currently that's having issues with his camera webcam on his laptop because his laptop is a indian manufactured brand cheap for them it's cheaper for them to buy it's got a lot of neat features like boost thing fingerprint sensor and whatever i forgot the exact brand but

he's having an issue with his camera being an unsupported camera by the colonel uh huh he requires, I'll tell you what the model is most cameras should just show up as like a like a USB webcam and should just be fine but what the hell is this thing doing? Yes, except his is a proprietary

of course it is let me tell you where's the laser I'll tell you. Where is Xaser? I'll tell you what his model is. Where is he? Okay, I find it now, Aya. Found it. For some reason, my webcam is not being recognized.

No video device. Dev video zero. Found any suggestions. Unplug, replug. I've been looking to find a solution. Some kind of, okay, maybe proprietary software. And then MIPI. My webcam is of type MIPI.

R. M-I-P-I. R. M-I-P-I. Okay. And a lot more people with this type of webcam have been having a hard time, especially the newer model. Whoa. Mipi. Oh, yes, I'm well aware.

I... This is the one that they pulled from the kernel, right? This is the one... The Intel one? Yes, that's what it is. It's Intel's stupid system. That's the intel one yes that's what it is it's intel stupid that's the intel one they've moved all the firmware out of the kernel and put it on the sorry they they've removed the ui down they removed it even from the ui in the kernel that's the problem but it doesn't work probably i think they they don't use the the hardware the hardware, the existing camera stack

that is already there for Linux. Like the V4, whatever. The camera stack is already there for Linux. Instead, they do their own thing. And the software, the firmware they have for it just doesn't work consistently on Linux. It's like very specific kernel versions,

and you need to patch a kernel. It's just a nightmare. Okay, that's the one then. I told him to use his phone with DroidCam like I am right now. Except if it's hot over 30 degrees, don't use that because it's been disconnecting continuously. Do you use that over Wi-Fi? Or do you have it plugged in?

No, it's connected. Hard connected. USB. It's the USB port that's overheating. My computer is in the desk, not outside, although I have the side panel off. It's still overheating. The USB port is overheating. I don't know.

It's like 30 degrees right now, and it's only 1143. The whole Linux thing, right now I'm having difficulty communicating with people. Communication is a lot harder these days. That's all I'm saying. I'm not bashing on anyone. Just communication is really broken. You try to communicate with developers these days, either don't reply, don't give you the time of the day, or because they're busy and

I understand and tell me you're busy. Don't just completely ignore me. And when you try to work together you start the journey and then they quit in the middle of it. Right. They're like, yeah, after thinking about it, yeah, it's not interesting and they just leave you hanging. Not really good.

Leave a good impression, people. That's my whole argument. I'm still happy on Linux, and I will keep using Linux for the foreseeable future. Only I needed to send out a message that zero Linux is here, but for how long? Because when life takes over,

because it's not paying the bills. As we all know, it's not paying the bills. And life requires you to pay the bills. So when I find a job, it'll be... Now it's what occupies my days 24-7. But when I find a job, a real job, and real life takes over again, zero Linux will be on the shelf. And being just maintained

every now and again, having consistent releases and whatnot, don't be surprised when that happens. Distros come and go. If you don't like the frequency at which the new frequency of zero Linux releases, you can move to another distro.

Why people go up in arms when a distro dies when there's a million other distros that do similar stuff? Because at the end of the day, distros are not really distros. It's just a new coat of paint and new methods of doing the same thing. I've said it before, it's people took it as like me hating on all these distros it's just fucking reality

a lot of distros out there are glorified post install scripts it's a post install script in the form of an ISO and that's fine that's okay someone did say why don't you make a post-install script that users can run after installing Linux,

I mean, Arch Linux plus KDE. They can just run. That's what I did, but not complete, just to get more users to use zero Linux. There's multiple ways of creating a so-called distro. I just chose the ISO way because it's easy to flash on a USB drive and next

next next you got it installed because at the end of the day if you install it via an ISO or post install script you might start having the same issue so that's not going to remove the issues. Yeah.

Don't be surprised if a distro dies. Move on. There's something called moving on. But for now, Zero Onyx is here to stay. I don't know when I'm going to find a job. It's been three years. So, hey!

Maybe another three years. I won't be able to pay. It's been three years. So, hey, maybe another three years. I won't be able to pay the bills for another three years. Who knows? But other than that, thank you for all the people who have shown love to Zero Linux. There's a lot of people. I uploaded an ISO on the 17th. I already have 3,000 downloads on that. Wow. It's doing good. It's still doing good. saw on the 17th, I already have 3,000 downloads on that.

It's doing good. It's still doing good. Thanks to all the people and thank you for, I want to thank you for keeping the spirit alive when it comes to Linux because your videos are amazing. Thank you.

The amount of information that we get from your videos is overwhelming sometimes and i love the uh joking the jokes you throw from now and again especially when you made the uh the redhead stuff and the latest video you did when you talked about the zip domain. Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was amazing. That was just... I like that video. The zip domain stuff is so stupid. Nobody's talking about it.

Why? Why are you the only one of the very few who are talking about it? I don't know. Like, there's a couple... It's there. It's malicious. It's... You need awareness about it.

Look, right now, I care more about people talking about the web environment integrity stuff like the zip domain stuff like that's a problem But like that's an easy to ignore problem the web environment integrity stuff like that's an actual serious problem That is going to hurt the open web. Oh the DRM yeah, yeah, yeah, what people are labeling as a web DRM is well, I I recently did a uBlock origin test. It's still working. Well, yeah.

For now. Nothing been implemented just yet. It's currently in prototyping stage. I visited YouTube, the homepage of YouTube. 1.9k ads blocked on the home page i'm not even watching a video i'm not even watching a video on the youtube home page 1.9 almost 2000 ads blocked where what it's not just ads it's also just scripts they're running in the background, things like that. Oh, my God.

It's hilarious. So I'm imagining a future with no ad blockers and people getting bombarded with these autoplay videos. You go to news websites, click here to read more. You click here, you get redirected to some questionable website. And the problem with news websites, serious news websites like CNN and BBC or whatever, they have ads, they don't control where they lead.

So, some of the ads show you a lawnmower. Okay? Let's say a lawnmower. You click on that ad, it sends you to an X-rated website. Whatever reason. They don't control it yes it yet it floods i give you an example i did a study also how big websites are going because right if if the web continues going the way it's going it's a dysfunctional web. Because I loaded BBC.co.uk and CNN and our local news channel called LBCI News.

Okay. BBC.co.uk, 170 megabytes to load before it loads the whole website. Because Vivaldi shows you the size of the website and the address bar. I loaded CNN, 240 megabytes before it loads i loaded the lebanese news web website 290 megabytes close to 300 megabytes to load the home page what the hell's going on here there's no no... Are we... That number can't... Surely that number isn't correct. It is correct.

I downloaded... I even downloaded the homepage using HTTrack on Windows. There's an app called HTTrack that downloads the website. Uh-huh. I don't know what it's called. Source the website or whatever. Download the whole homepage. Sure, sure, sure.

You tell it to stick to the home page and download the home page all the code is javascript ads javascript code javascript this javascript like there was a file on the lebanese lbci news there was one file that was 80 megabytes in size js file what the hell is this web going to are we and i wonder why my and i kept wondering why my quota is being reached so fast because i have a 20 gig a day quota i'm like 80 megabytes of javascript you open it you know how uh when you open a encrypted javascript you have this uh gibberish yeah the minified javascript yeah yeah this this is what it's what it contains 80 megabytes of this even kate tells me i cannot load the entire file do you want to try to load the entire keep in mind minifying the file is removing the excess things. If that's 80 megabytes minified, like, that's gonna be

closer to 100 meg if you get rid of that. Like, I scrolled, and Kate wasn't able to load the entire file. It capped out at 20,000 lines. So if minified is

20,000 lines, I can't imagine on minified one how long it is. But that's the modern web. That's the modern web. What I'm saying is the websites serve you more ads than actual content. They care about the ads than the content.

Because I go to news websites to read, and here's the news articles on LBCI Lebanon. You click on the news, the title. You expect a whole article like BBC or CNN. It's this much of ads. The paragraph is like six lines and more ads. You have to scroll for like five seconds to reach the end of the page.

But the whole article is six lines. So I clicked and I got bombarded with ads for six lines. I'm like, dude, what the hell is going on with the web? And I do agree that the modern web needs quarantine. Not that kind of quarantine, not DRMs. DRMs are not the solution. but because drms what are they doing they're still serving you the shit ads and just they they will be shake and doing a handshake with your system and your browser to see if your browser is supported and your system is supported

why we don't need that we we still we we we need to be allowed to use whatever browser on whatever system we want. Absolutely. That whole Google thing. I think Google is trying to stop users from using questionable browsers. Like browsers that are user-created. They want users to use either Chrome, they want to defend their own products like official Chromium

forks, official Chrome so it's kind of like Edge they want you to use Edge no matter what on a system they very aggressively push Edge on Windows Chris likes thisTech right now,

he's trying and trying and trying to remove Edge from Windows. He keeps failing because Microsoft is putting, making it harder and harder and harder and harder to remove. So I keep going to his Twitch streams and telling him, stop trying. Stop trying. Windows is always going to fight you for that. They're fighting for supremacy.

So with that being said, it was a great stream today. I was like, I wasn't screaming and yelling like before. And because I did that many times and nobody, it doesn't matter how much you scream and yell. Nobody's going gonna hear better it's just it's just at the end of the day linux is what it is it will grow at its own pace there will as with everything there will be people that will hinder its growth unfortunately but I will forever use Linux no matter what, even if zero Linux dies

I'll still be using zero Linux I'll keep maintaining it for my own self but just people when you want to use something on Linux, know what you're using you're new to Linux, don't jump directly into ArchBase. Go slowly.

That's a bad idea. Yeah, we all did it. So we're talking from experience here. Yeah, yeah. Take it from these two guys, those two nerds, an old guy and a young guy, two generations who did it. Don't do it.

Go to... I would highly recommend Mint XFCE, not Cinnamon. XFCE because it got more flexibility on XFCE. On Cinnamon, it's easy to use, but

it really gets boring real fast. With XFCE, it keeps moving. Not the updates, I'm saying. Definitely not the updates. Not the updates. It doesn't receive any updates. Just it's more fun to use. Sure.

And you use that Windows 95 theme. Yeah. Why not? You got flexibility with, more flexibility with XFCE. Just go there first, learn about Linux. And if you want to go into Arch, you have virtual machines. Just flash Arch on a virtual machine,

mess with it, learn how it works, start reading the wiki. And then because Arch is a base that you shape your way, and they're not responsible if what you flash on your system, they're not responsible if you break your system. You have to, they have a wiki, just, you will find your way around. Each hardware manufacturer, if you're lucky, if they support Linux, they will have their own guide on how to get things running on Arch. So, don't jump directly into Arch.

And people will find it weird when I say, don't use zero Linux if you don't know Linux. Yeah. Because it's Arch. I am aware that I used a difficult base, a very moving, and that requires a lot of involvement to be very involved in the system to use it.

So I don't want you to sink before you can swim. If I tell you, oh, you're a beginner, use zero Linux. Yeah, it's like me telling you, you don't know how to swim? I throw you in the deep end. No, I'm not that kind of guy. I'm just warning people.

Yeah, some people float. I definitely don't. Me neither. With that being said, just enjoy Linux if you want to use something other than Windows. It's not necessary to switch to Linux if you're happy

on Windows. I'm not that kind of person that's going to... I'm not that kind of zealot that will tell you, oh, you're using Windows? Ew, shame on you. No, use what works for you. If Windows works perfectly for you, because I've got users on my server, Linux server,

who are using Windows. They will not switch to Linux. They will use Linux in a VM, but they will not switch to it. So you are allowed to use whatever works for you. It's not wrong to stick to Windows. Sometimes, yeah, for me, for example, I didn't have to restore Windows since 2017 because it works. Because I know how to use Windows. I will use this argument.

An operating system is only as good as the users behind it. system is only as good as the users behind it sometimes very rarely a saying is wrong but very rarely unless because i swear to god i meet a lot of users who have been using windows without an issue a single issue for like 15 20 years i have a person who's... I certainly don't know people. I'm not one of those people. Definitely not. I would link you to a thread on my forum. There's a guy. He's very old. He's in his 70s, I think.

He's got computers all the way from Windows 3.11 all the way to Windows 10. The reason he's using Windows 10 is, one, because he cannot browse the internet on any of his other retro PCs because of the modern web. But the computer he uses on a daily

basis for his tinkering and whatever is a Windows XP laptop. So there are people like that, but just use whatever works for you. Don't let people like zealots try to push you

towards something you cannot use or don't want to use. You are your own individual. Don't let anyone sway you otherwise. Use whatever works. Okay, I do agree with the ideology that a closed source shouldn't be used.

Use open source software as much as you can. How about I tell you that even if you're using Windows, these days Windows is receiving more and more open source applications. Yeah. You got Files that replaces Explorer. It's open source. Is that open source? Yeah. Files. It's called Files. It replaces Explorer. It's open source. Is that open source? Yeah.

Files. It's called Files. It replaces Explorer. It's really neat. It's got effects, theming, tabs. You can update it separately from the system. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay, okay.

It's a free open source software. There's the Christitis Dex de-bloater script. It's free open source. There's other file explorers that are free open source. You got the widget stuff, free open source. Windows is seeing a lot

of free open source love today. So if you like and you're a free open source zealot, you can be on Windows. Okay, the operating system itself're a free open source zealot, you can be on Windows. Okay, the operating system itself is not free open source, but if you use it correctly, it will be very stable. On my system, I haven't needed to restore Windows for a long time. I upgraded from 7 to 8 to 8.1 to 10 to 11 using the same license key. Yeah, it worked. So,

yeah, use whatever is best for you. Don't let Zealot weigh you otherwise. And use free open source tools whenever you can. Just at the base, use the operating system where you feel more comfortable. That's it. That's my message

to the world. I just don't like this ideology of oh, you should be using Linux. Jump to Linux. If you're using Windows, you are an idiot. That's the kind of reactions I don't like when I see them. And I have nothing to say. I just leave them

whoever they want to be. They might be an idiot, but they're not an idiot for that reason. They're not idiots, but you know what I mean. They are who they are. They are who they are. Just don't mind them. I want to say another thing I said today is

it's a message to distro maintainers. Other distro maintainers. This time I have a message for distro maintainers. Maintaining a distro maintainers. Maintaining a distro should not be allowed to take over one's life. We do it for fun. Don't let anyone bully you to do more than you can unless you are willing to.

I myself know that zero Linux will not live forever. Nothing does. Plus there are plenty of distros out there to try. If one dies, more will come. Linux is an ever-evolving platform. Enjoy maintaining your distro for as long as you can. No, while you can. Don't force it to take over your life.

Because there's a lot of distro maintainers out there. They complain that it's take over your life. Because there's a lot of distro maintainers out there. They complain that it's taking over their lives and they're miserable. No, don't let it do that. Just keep doing it as long as it's fun. More distros will come when yours dies. So don't worry about that. Unless you want to make a living out of it,

that's a different story. And it becomes a job and it becomes a company you can form a company from a distro at this point it's a completely different perspective but as long as you're doing it like i am for fun keep it fun don't let don't let other uh like for me i got people a lot of people who influenced me, allowed them to influence me, and influenced the vision of Zero Linux. And I started feeling guilty and depressed

for not including what... Because they're trying to help, and I appreciate that. And I really appreciate that. They're trying to help the project grow. But there are things that I can implement, other things I cannot and if you if I allow you to be doing to do it yourselves if I don't understand it

myself if you go because you're just a passing contributor if you go and I end up with this with your project I have to keep maintaining it and if I don't understand it how am I supposed to maintain it? So I'm very weary on what things I include in zero Linux. You have to put limitations, virtual limitations, to what you include and what you don't include. I included a lot of things before that I didn't understand. And then the contributor just disappeared. And now I don't know what to do with them.

I'm stuck with something that works so far. But if I want to change something, I can't. Because the contributor just disappeared. So be careful who you accept into your family. And be willing to have an open mind. Have an open mind. Because I had a closed mind and i suffered for it i'm just giving you my experience if you're not willing to learn just don't maintain a distro don't

maintain a distro yeah there's a lot of people who okay i'm maintaining a distro i have a distro but it's broken are you willing to learn to? No! I need somebody to do it for me. No, you shouldn't be maintaining it. I'm just giving you my experience. The experience I got for the two and a half years that I've been maintaining zero Linux. You either take it or leave it. I'm just giving you my experience. So with that being said, thank you, Brody.

You're always awesome. You're a good listener. And... As I said, the more that you speak, the less that I have to speak. I don't know how long you just want to rant for them, but it's going to be at least like 5-10 minutes. Sorry. I needed to say that.

But now I'm going to say peace, and you do your closing. Let the people know where they can find your stuff before we do that. Okay. You can find ZeroLinux at zerolinux.xyz. I'm on Fostodon at ZeroLinux. I changed from AdTechZero.

Now it's at ZeroLinux because it's all unified now. And I'm no longer on social privately because I hate social fair enough why did Twitter become a porn site I don't know yeah it's great isn't it well look they were already a porn site

now they've just accepted their fate yeah because I woke up one morning and I saw X on my phone now what videos are called X videos? Tell that to your mom or dad. Anyway, I'm on

Fosplodon at Zero Linux. I'm on Discord at Dark Zero. I didn't want to change it to Zero Linux. I use it for everything. That's it. On YouTube youtube you can find us on youtube at zero linux if you want to watch older videos because newer ones will be very far and few between few and far between okay that's it easy um yeah main channel

is actually so gaming channel the gaming channel bro on Games. I stream there twice a week. Right now, I probably have finished Black Mesa. So I'm probably playing Portal with Ren. Also, I'm going through Final Fantasy XVI. The main channel is Brody Robertson. I do Linux videos there six-ish days a week. I have no idea what will be out by then. Probably another Red Hat video.

I really hope not, but, you know, judging by the direction we've been going. Or maybe there'll be some more, like, Fosterama stuff. I don't know. We'll see what happens. Uh, this channel, if you're watching the audio version, you can find the video version on YouTube at Tech Over Tea. And if you want to find the audio version, any podcast platform, there is an RSS feed. Stick it in your favorite app. I like AntennaPod. It's great. So give me the final word, preferably less than five minutes long.

Peace and long life to all Linux users. Yes. See you guys later.