Tech Over Tea - Linux Is Sometimes A Nightmare | Vashinator

Episode Date: July 21, 2023

Today we have the one and only Vashinator on the podcast, a fellow Linux YouTuber who I've known about for quite a while but had never had a chance to sit down and talk with until just today. ==========Guest Links========== YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Vashinator7 Twitter: https://twitter.com/Vashinator7 Website: https://vashinator.com/ ==========Support The Show========== ► Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/brodierobertson ► Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/BrodieRobertsonVideo ► Amazon USA: https://amzn.to/3d5gykF ► Other Methods: https://cointr.ee/brodierobertson =========Video Platforms========== 🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBq5p-xOla8xhnrbhu8AIAg =========Audio Release========= 🎵 RSS: https://anchor.fm/s/149fd51c/podcast/rss 🎵 Apple Podcast:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tech-over-tea/id1501727953 🎵 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3IfFpfzlLo7OPsEnl4gbdM 🎵 Google Podcast: https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy8xNDlmZDUxYy9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw== 🎵 Anchor: https://anchor.fm/tech-over-tea ==========Social Media========== 🎤 Discord:https://discord.gg/PkMRVn9 🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/TechOverTeaShow 📷 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/techovertea/ 🌐 Mastodon:https://mastodon.social/web/accounts/1093345 ==========Credits========== 🎨 Channel Art: All my art has was created by Supercozman https://twitter.com/Supercozman https://www.instagram.com/supercozman_draws/ DISCLOSURE: Wherever possible I use referral links, which means if you click one of the links in this video or description and make a purchase we may receive a small commission or other compensation.

Good morning, good day, and good evening. Welcome to episode... Honestly, I'm not counting anymore. It's 170... I'm gonna guess... 7. Yeah, that sounds close enough. It's in the 170s of Tech of a T.

I'm, as always, your host, Brodie Robertson, and today, we have a fellow Linux YouTuber on. Welcome to the show, Vashinator. How you doing? Doing pretty good. It's Friday, so I'm really glad for that, and just ready for the weekend, and then, you know, holiday weekend too here in the US, so. Oh yeah, because 4th of July is coming up soon, isn't it? Yes. Oh. Because yeah, you're, what, so it's still June for you?

Yes, it is June 30th for me. So how's your week been? What have you been getting up to? Mostly work. I've been, you know, dealing with some, looking at some YouTube stuff and kind of diving into game development a bit more. But yeah, mostly work and then, you know, trying to find time to keep the YouTube machine running. I did see that you were on Twitter.

You've been like tweeting about, you know, doing 100 days of code. Then you had the video about two weeks ago of you making a game for a Linux game jam like what's your experience with programming you just like getting into it now you just like have you had experience before or yeah so I in my undergraduate days I did I did a bachelor's in psychology and then got a second bachelor's in information systems. And I dealt with some C++ and some C Sharp and things like that at that point. But they weren't exactly concerned with teaching you a lot about object-oriented programming in the information systems path. It was more about, you know, being ready to work in a kind of like IT in a business and things like that.

It was more general stuff. So I didn't really learn a lot about object-oriented programming and things like that. So more recently in the past, I think this really started in late 2019. Like I really began seriously looking back at Python because that's the language I had played around with a little bit and had more success with. And I started using that more and more and more in early 2020 i really just started doing more with it trying to actually solve problems even for my day job at the time so it was something where i ended up digging a lot more into programming and getting to understand a lot more about how it works and so this is just me kind of trying to broaden my horizons uh web development was kind of what I started with for 100 Days of Code.

And I wanted to learn a bit more about that. And then I just, I did game development one night. And, you know, six days later, it was like, oh, Linux Game Jam's on. Hmm, maybe I'll do that next year. I'm like, no, let's just do it this year. And so, you know, 15 minutes later, I had talked myself into doing it and you know now i'm just kind of trying to dig further into that but i i just noticed now when i like watch a tutorial or whatever i actually understand what's going on conceptually like i can figure out hey this is

how i might be able to apply this to something that i want to do uh as opposed to before like if i tried to watch a tutorial like i'd be'd be like, oh, okay, that's cool. Oh, wait, now what do I do now? So. Right. I think a lot of people kind of skip that early fundamental stage of, like, learning the concept. As much as I really didn't like some of my courses I did at uni,

some of the courses on, like, data structures and how, like, trees work, how stacks work, all of that stuff, it's boring. It's really boring stuff. But it does help conceptually understand more complex problems where maybe, you know, you would approach a problem when you first start out in one way, but you realize as you learn

these further concepts hey this other concept i already know maybe this actually applies in a slightly better way maybe you know it might not be the most efficient way to do it but it might flow a bit better it might make more sense like the logic going through that puzzle might make a lot more sense in the way you're originally trying to approach it absolutely and that's that's what I kind of really started using Python for when I started, you know, messing with some of those projects. Because the first kind of thing I took on was something where this process would only take about 10 to 15 minutes to do, but it was something where I had to stop and, you know, physically interact and do everything. But I got it to run in like 30 seconds.

So it was like, okay, that's pretty cool. I had to solve like loading an Excel file into a database. I used Pandas for that and all that. And just several other things that I had to kind of solve. And then eventually I ended up, I think I ended up adding a GUI to that just to be more user friendly for other people in the area that might start using it. But yeah, I mean, ultimately, that is what ended up teaching me the most. And I think I made a video about get out of tutorial hell for programming. And that's what I said is build a project and then iterate on it.

Iterate, iterate, iterate. Yeah, building a project, it was definitely big. Like, when I was... I would learn a lot of these concepts, but one of the things that really did help me along the way was I would go out of my way while I was studying to do other things. A lot of the time, they were just, like, throwaway projects.

It wasn't something really, really important where I was going to, like, you know, distribute it as, like, a program that other people would use. But no matter what it is, really, like, it as like a program that other people would use, but No matter what it is really, like whether it's programming or any other skill really, the only way you're actually going to ingrain that skill is to apply it and try to try to morph it slightly. Don't just apply it exactly as you see it. Like say for example, um, anyone who's learned Blender has probably done a donut tutorial. Don't just follow the tutorial to the letter actually go and mess around with the tools if if you see a thing that like extrudes a

bit of the model try it out in different ways see what happens if you try to break it and if you do that you're going to learn a lot more than just following exactly one-to-one what you're being told. Absolutely. And Donut and Blender is on my list of things eventually to get to. But yes, I mean, and that's, I've been drawing a lot of parallels with learning game development to, you know, other things that I've learned. Because, you know, that's,

I tend to be a person that has to learn a lot for my day job. I'm a business analyst. So I'm just dealing with a lot of different problems that people may have with software. And the fortunate thing for me is I'm fairly intuitive and I understood at least the basics of like, you know, what a loop does and conditions and all that stuff. So that really helped me kind of at least intuitively kind of leap to what the answer would be. Maybe I wasn't necessarily always 100% right,

but I could at least get in the ballpark. Yeah, and that's really something that helps a lot in constantly solving those problems for the day job is something that really kind of helped push kind of the IT skills further on too. Yeah, there's nothing worse than someone who has absolutely no idea about programming trying to talk to the programmers as if they know it's like oh yes doing this is easy

isn't it no go away do you want to do you want to pay us for the next year do you want to double my pay no i'm not doing that well and and that was uh we had a famous saying back and one of my previous employers like something like we could make it sing happy birthday if you want it to, but, you know, with enough time and money. And, you know, it's just one of those deals where if you aren't at least somewhat knowledgeable, there is really difficult to conceptualize that. Yeah, yeah. It doesn't like, you don't necessarily need to be up on the latest tech stack like you know following web development for example as you were saying before like web development i was super into at one point and then it's like you know every couple of months the tech stack entirely

changes like the problem with the web development space is it's a lot of it's run a lot of like the changes are run by these startups and the startups you know they don't have all of this technical baggage so they're willing to try out anything and when that happens things get very crazy very quickly i remember when like you know who would run react i don't know the the what is what is the framework people like nowadays i know there was a period where jquery came back for a bit. And I don't know. I still find it funny when I hear references to jQuery because I do vaguely remember, like,

people were starting to say, don't use jQuery. Even, I want to say, five or six years ago, even. But now, yeah, it's weird seeing that again in 2023. But yeah, I think it's React. I honestly don't know. I haven't been able to keep up. I've been focused more on the HTML and CSS side of things and are really kind of trying to dial in some of that design stuff

because that's the part where I tend to struggle. I'm so technical. It's more of a struggle for me to focus on like, oh, okay, these colors look good together oh this needs to be bigger oh this needs to be smaller whatever yeah anyone who's seen my website knows that i design is not my my forte i just have something that works and then oh my god i've been on this site in so long geez i need to do that uh yeah i i just have something that works and then that's it like i've i've said this a bunch of times but when you have the option of not having a programmer being the designer that's always

going to be a good thing like there are some i know there are some programmers out there who are great at design as well but as a general rule if someone is very specialized in programming But as a general rule, if someone is very specialized in programming, design work's not going to be good for them. It's the same in the reverse. Someone who's very specialized in design, maybe they have some level of programming experience. But if you put them onto a really complex problem, you might get something like Yandere Simulator, where you have 10,000 if statements for something that could have been, you know, a very simple list. Yes. And it's just, yeah, it is very different. It is something where also at that point, when I think back to, you know, business analysts and all that stuff,

like you come back to the programmer is the one defining the requirements for the design and so you kind of don't have a separation of duties at that point anyway but what do you mean that so it's a separation of duties is like uh so in general if i just for example so if i work when i find requirements at work it's a little weird for me to be the primary tester for those requirements, because I wrote the requirements, I can say whatever passes the test, right? Right. Ideally, somebody else is going to be the primary tester for that, because they're going to be the ones that are actually going to be able to say, hey, this meets our business needs. Well, I'm just, you know,

I'm just a business analyst who is trying to help them get to that point. Right, right. Yeah, that's the value of third-party QA. Right, I see. Yeah, and so I think a developer and designer being the same person is a similar thing. You know, the developer can say,

oh, yeah, it looks exactly like I thought it should look. Well, yeah, the problem with the developer being the designer is you also have... The developer is very... They're very knowledgeable about the project. So there's going to be design decisions they've made that make total sense to them. But the second that someone else sees it,

it makes... It's absolute nonsense. Like, why is this button in this place? Why is there no button for this? Why is this button in this menu instead of this menu? All of these little things are things where if you're making a project yourself, you are going to get used to them. You're going to get used to the weird, the weirdness about your own design.

And for something you're making just for your own use case. Like my bookmark script, for example. I don't have bookmarks in my browser. I have bookmarks in a separate application. And they open up my browser and open the tab in the browser. For me, this project makes perfect sense. But there are some really stupid things I've added to the project. That other people have been like, hey, can you fix this? If you want to fix it, you fix this like if you want

to fix it like submit a progress if you want to but as it stands like it does what i need to do and that's it but when you are dealing with a customer a client whatever you want to call it yeah like actually having someone else there to at least sanity check what you're doing is going to be incredibly valuable yes and that And that's something that I unfortunately feel like the open source world misses at times. And I hate it because there are times where like, I'll find something and I just start trying to mess with it. And I'm just like, I don't know that this is really workable for me.

And if it's not workable for me, who I'm a very, I'm a very function over form person. And if it's not workable for me, like, I don't know, you know, I don't know. I think it's a tough sell. For a long time, Audacity, Audacity has finally done something where they actually have the audio me where I can actually see it properly. For a long time, their little audio drop down boxes were screwed up at least when you had this uh screen zoomed in but they finally i don't i have no idea when they actually changed it it's been somewhat recently though well yeah audacity was purchased by muse a while back and there was that

whole drum when that happened um but hey look if at the end of the day if the project ends up being better for the user that's ultimately what matters like i know a lot of people are very maybe this is going to be an unpopular opinion but i know a lot of people are very how do you say set on exactly the way they want the foss world to operate and that's great because it's it acts as a counterbalance to companies like oracle doing oracle things but at the end of the day for the user for the person who just wants something that works those people are never going to be invested into that into that ecosystem into that that mindset where it going to be invested into that ecosystem, into that mindset where it needs to be exactly under this license.

It needs to work exactly this way. They just want to go about their day and do whatever work they need to do. Like with Ubuntu, for example, a lot of people get very angry about snaps and very angry about this and very angry about that. But if you're the kind of person who is just you're a game dev who uses godot you are a 3d modeler and blender if you don't care about the underlying system and all you care about is i need to do this work and i'm going to use this system because you know ubuntu is very easy to install it takes like five minutes ten, depending on your internet speed.

The longest part is downloading everything. If you're the kind of person who's in that situation, it doesn't really, the rest of it just doesn't really matter to you. Absolutely. But that's also kind of my argument that I think more people would actually be okay on Linux compared to Windows. Because a lot of people just need a web browser. And that's really all they need. And you have all of this overhead in the underlying system on Windows that you wouldn't have on Linux. My parents ran MX Linux for like a year and a half or something like that. And I had to create stuff on the desktop for them,

but that was it. Once I did that, like they just pretty much ran with it and were fine. So, you know, I feel like, I feel like that's, that's kind of the thing that I think is important though, is your point there because yeah, I, I'm not a big fan of snaps. I get why I, I, I understand not a big fan of snaps. I get why I understand why some people like them and some people don't.

I understand what Canonical's trying to do. Personally, just not the best fit for me. But I'm not going to fault anybody that wants to use Ubuntu. That's their deal. If that worked for them, that's all that matters. For sure. I want to take more into that point you said about installing Linux for your parents.

So, what do you think the Windows does that gets in the way for the regular average person? Obviously, the way Windows updates work is very much annoying, but it's been a while since I've actively used a Windows system. I haven't even touched Windows 11. last time it was 10 i literally touched windows 11 the for really the first time when i did a video about installing mint alongside windows and that was purely because i have a mini pc that i'm about to turn into a proxmox box okay but um but yes so at the time, they were on Windows 8. Oh. Or 8.1 or something like that.

And this machine had, I want to say, four gigabytes of RAM. It was one of those stupid low-end PCs that stores sell. And unfortunately, people like my parents buy, even though I try to advise them not to. But yes, that is what they had. unfortunately people like my parents buy even though i try to advise them not to but yes that is that is what they had and so it was like okay i mean they kept complaining about how slow it was uh come to find out i think the thing had a spinning hard drive at this point um yeah if i if it's windows 8 it would have been during that era where you had the option of 128 gig ssd or two terabyte spinning drive.

And a lot of people go with the spinning drive because, you know, bigger number equals better. Oh, that didn't even enter the equation for them. But yes, you are totally right. It is around that time. And it was something where like once I installed MX and just flipped over to an SSD, like a small one like that machine was fine it eventually had an issue with the wi-fi that was nothing to do with the

drivers just stopped working oh how do i sometimes breaks yeah yeah but uh but yeah i mean and they that's how i ended up getting them on it because ultimately like they were just like they just needed something that worked and windows 8 was not working for them at that point but you know I got Solitaire installed on there I got I got the browser set up and added their favorites and like they they were fine they they could honestly if they probably could not have told you any difference in it because I think for a lot of people, the underlying OS really doesn't matter. And that's one of the things that I think people seem to miss

when they're trying to talk about getting people to switch to Linux is most people don't even think about that question, much less anything else. Yeah, I was telling my housemate about this the other day. There was this thing with um apparently some windows 7 keys can activate windows 10 or something like that he's like well if if microsoft advertised this and people just go out and buy windows 7 keys and just not bother buying like the 90 windows 10 or windows 11 key but most people don't most people don't... Most people don't consume

computers in that way. He's a gamer. He's built a computer before. He's installed operating systems. But most people, when they get a computer, it is the computer. It is whatever comes... It is an appliance in the same way that your fridge or your

toaster. This is an appliance. If it breaks, it breaks an appliance if it breaks it breaks maybe if it's expensive enough you'll send it to like a repair person but besides that like you're never going to touch yourself like it's the same way that i am with cars for example i don't know anything about cars if my car breaks i send it to a mechanic they know what they're doing like i don't think there's anything wrong with this. I think these people just have priorities on different things. Their focus is on doing whatever their job is. Their focus is on

just using their computer as a recreation device rather than a... I think that's a good separation. A lot of people in the... Actually, pretty much everyone in the Linux world uses Linux as a hobby as opposed to using linux as a hobby as opposed

to using your computer as a recreation by so it's the operating system itself that's the hobby not the computer yeah for sure and there is definitely an element of that i think for a lot of linux users so i do occasionally hear from some that you know they're really just trying to do basic computing and they just they just got sick of windows for whatever reason or you know their pc no longer runs it well or whatever else well no i definitely know developers are in that that camp like the people i was saying before who just install a bundu and then just do some work on it but when you're the kind of person who gets involved in discussions about you know if you are getting into discussion about gnu herd you are already one of these people that are like very very invested in

this space yes absolutely yes and and those conversations are never never going to even be on the radar of you know most other people and i totally get that. I don't think they probably should. If you care about Xorg or Wayland, SystemD or OpenRC, Pipewire or Pulsar, you are already very, very invested in this space, and you are not the kind of person that we're talking about here. You treat your computer as a hobby, as I was saying.

It's something you want to pick apart, and you want to understand, and you want to just get it to be exactly the way you want it to be. Yes. And to some extent, that is a really interesting thing. At other times, it's a very annoying thing. Yeah.

Well, yeah. When Linux is your entire personality and the way that you run your Linux system is your personality, you know, some of those people can get a little bit annoying for sure oh i'm more meant just trying to find every little i've been playing yeah that as well yeah but i i mean just trying to find every little thing that i have to do to make it you know right operate sometimes the way i want it right right yes there is that too so going back to that point about your parents would you encourage like other people to at least mess around with this? Or do you think it's sort of just a one-off thing in your case?

What is your opinion on this? I think it's largely going to depend on their daily activities on the computer. I mean, for my parents, like I said, it was really a web browser machine, email machine, solitaire machine. That was it. That's really all they did. They didn't have any special needs for apps.

They didn't have any of that. So I mean, on something like that, I think you'd probably... I'd really be curious actually on some of the image-based or immutable, whatever you want to call them, distros that are coming out for stuff like that. I don't think Udemy is quite there yet, but that's one option, Vanilla OS, obviously. But some of those like that, I'd be really curious to see that, because to me, that is where those types of things are going to also excel. I know they're going to be awesome for other use cases, but that's one option I think people kind of underestimate.

Mmm, for sure. Yeah, they sort of hide a lot of the complexity and do... With most of these mutable systems, they update in a similar way to Android, where you get the update,

you restart the computer updates just there like there's no fiddling with packages or anything like that it's just updates done enjoy yeah and for and for these people in particular like that is perfect that is what exactly what they need that's even less intrusive than you know the windows way of doing things so to me that's even less intrusive than the Windows way of doing things. So to me, that's something where I feel like there are some people out there that are going to be fine with that. But obviously, it's going to be on a case-by-case basis and you don't want to just change somebody's computer. No, no.

I've seen some people that just like, I installed whatever, MX, Linux, Minj, whatever, on someone else's computer it deleted all the family photos like come on or just i know that you think that you know what you're doing but please if you're gonna do that at least back up the hard drive install it on a second hard drive and swap the drives over just just do something that's not that. Yeah, don't do that.

In my case, with my parents, they didn't even have a computer anymore. My mom just uses an iPad. It's a Facebook machine. And Facebook banking and emails, that's pretty much it. Yep. And I mean, you know, and a tablet.

And that's the other thing too, is, you know know a lot of people are fine with just a tablet uh i'm curious you know how long we'll see desktop computers in their current form just because of that but i still prefer a desktop machine because i need you know a capture card or you know capture card a decent graphics card all that kind of stuff but i do wonder wonder how much longer we're going to see them in this form as opposed to something else. I just don't know what they're going to really go to. No, I've definitely heard people make this argument before.

Where I stand on this is I think there's always going to be a place as long as there is a market for PC gaming. I think that a lot of regular people and I guess gaming is sort of very much in the mainstream now think that a lot of regular people, and I guess gaming is sort of very much in the mainstream now, but a lot of people who don't game,

they don't really need a computer. Like, this is why a lot of schools have migrated over to Chromebooks. Like, the students there do not need a... When I went to school, I had a MacBook Pro. Like, it was like five years out of date when I got it, but I had a MacBook Pro. That was like five years out of date when I got it, but I had a MacBook Pro.

That is way overkill. Way, way overkill for anything you're going to be doing at a school. And because it was overkill, we were playing Halo Combat Evolved. But you don't need something like that for that system. But I think the two things that are going to keep it going are the professional workspace like you know doing 3d modeling doing game development doing programming all of that but even then a lot of that work can be moved especially programming you don't need a powerful local

system to program but if you can offload that onto a remote server then you can do all the same work like this is what this is what Torvalds does when he's dealing with the ARM based version of Linux kernel he doesn't have

a super powerful ARM machine he just offloads it to an ARM server but I don't know I'm curious to see where we go

I know there have been some I know there's a lot of shift over to laptops that's for sure like laptops notebooks those have massively picked up over the past like five ten years especially as people especially as there's been more like you know bring your own device policies with work a lot of people just have one computer it is their work and their home computer there is this and and now with the like sort of

half what do you call it like it's half remote work half homework like you're going back and forth oh sorry half half office half remote work you're just like going in between the office and home a lot more people like have notebooks for doing that as well so So I don't know. I'm super curious for sure. Yeah. And yeah. And I'm luckily enough at one of those places where it's a bring your own device and I've been using a Mac mini and it's okay. Mac OS does some really dumb stuff sometimes, but I'm actually in the process of kind of looking to see if I can get a Linux machine to do what I need to do. Cause I, I still need a Windows VM and Mac because there's like literally one task that I have to do that Windows is the only place that I can find to actually do it.

And I don't have to do that that often. So I'm really thinking like, okay, what if I can get all this set up on Linux? And then maybe I just have Vert Manager or whatever running a Windows VM in the background if I need it. Linux and then maybe I just have vert manager or whatever running a Windows VM in the background if I need it and then yeah I'm really kind of thinking about that because I think that would be really cool to be able to just not have to deal with Mac's nonsense sometimes what is Mac OS like nowadays I said I used a MacBook Pro in high school but that was like snow leopard so it's been a while uh I don't really have a comparison point

because i i literally bought one when the mac minis went down to like 600 bucks or whatever i bought one at that point so i and i probably didn't use it that much for a little bit but there is one thing the the dock at the bottom so this is what drives me crazy. If you have two monitors, so I personally think that the way Mac OS is designed at this point, it's really designed for you to have one monitor, or it's designed for you to be working on a laptop. Okay. Because the dock, if you have two monitors, and you put your cursor at the bottom of the screen without the dock, sometimes. Is he gone did we lose him there okay now we're back um we all love the internet so you had a uh power outage for a moment so hopefully hopefully that doesn't happen again. That would be less than optimal.

Yeah, let's just hope. Yes. I mean, you have a billion of these to record, I know. So let's hope you may even be able to hear it now. Yeah, I can definitely do that. It's, yeah, but it's, but yeah. So Mac OS. So quickly, the thing that I was trying to say is,

so if you have two monitors and you have the dock on one monitor, if you move your cursor to the bottom of the other monitor, sometimes it just decides to snap the dock to your cursor. And then you have to go into settings and snap it back. So like move to the that your cursor is on? Yes. Oh. And I've looked.

There's apparently some way to make this stop, but I don't know what the actual downsides of doing that are. I just don't understand the user experience decision. Just duplicate the dock. What are you doing, Apple? I don't know.

Maybe duplicating the dock just doesn't fit their design principles doing apple yeah i don't know maybe duplicating the doc just doesn't fit like their design principles or something i don't know because that like to me that seems like the most obvious thing to do or you know give the person the option to stop it from oh yeah that's a good option as well i like that one but bar that duplicate it just have it on all the screens. Yeah, I don't understand. It's one of the most puzzling things. But there's just a couple of things like that in macOS where it just drives me crazy.

And so, yeah, I'm really looking at getting to the point where I can actually use Linux for work. And so I'm hoping that that will be something in the not-too-distant future that I can see if I can get to work. Mm-hmm. With, so what are your like daily activities that like wouldn't just, wouldn't be a problem with Linux?

You said there was like one thing that would be a problem in your Windows. Yeah, I have to, there's something where I have to use a plugin specifically that has to be in the Windows version of Microsoft Word. Right. And it's like, there's,

maybe I could get that to work through Rewind, but I mean, most of the stuff is like, you know, using Office 365 stuff. So I could use all that via the web. Teams is apparently now on Linux. I think there's a web app thing. I think they actually shut down the Debian app. And there's actually like some sort of web app thing that they're installing. Yeah, Teams for Linux is no longer available,

but Teams the web app is the thing you'd be using. Yeah. Yeah, and there's also Ferdium or whatever, so I could also launch it through that if I needed to. Sure, yeah. Yeah, there's options for that. But yeah, I mean, a lot of it's done either on a website or it's done where I need to act if I need to access something specific that

the client has oftentimes I'm signing into a VM anyway on site so you know that it's just really easy for me to probably get that to transfer and I think a lot of the VPN apps out there now work on Linux yeah um most I can't think of any that, any notable that don't. Right. Yeah. Uh, there's,

there's going to be something out there, but at the end of the day, there'll be like, you know, a web browser extension for it anyway, if, if that's the main thing you need it for. Yeah. Yeah.

Um, but yeah, I, like I say, I, I really think that the majority of it can be done just in linux and i'll be fine and i won't have to deal with max silliness and um i can use thunderbird i think for my email and all that and just go yeah one of the things i do like about as much

as i don't like i don't know i mean let me think about what I'm trying to say. I do this a lot, right? I jump into a conversation and then I'm like, I have no idea where I'm actually trying to take it. So I don't like the fact that a lot of developers are shifting everything to being web apps. Just because I like the idea of more performant applications. However, in the context of a lot of developers just not releasing software for linux like you know office like teams like actually zoom was a bad example because they do

actually have a linux app but teams and office are definitely a good example if you did not have the the web-based client you would not be be able to use Linux for those operations. And there'd be a lot more people who just couldn't run Linux in their job. Like if all you, a lot of that software now can just be replaced with a web application. In some cases, the web application is slightly limited, like Office 365, the web version

doesn't have some of the features. Zoom, the web version, you can't start a call, I believe. Probably the same for Teams. I'm not sure. But. No, you can start a call. You can? Just fine.

Okay. Yeah, because Ferdyum runs the web app for Teams. Oh, okay. Like, yeah. But, yeah, I mean, it's. I think the only thing that I've spotted that you can't really do easily in Teams is it's much harder to access your device settings when you're not in a poll. And then you can't do virtual backgrounds, I think is the other thing that I can't really find a way to do in the web-based version of Teams. But yeah, beyond that, I mean, it seems pretty normal.

But yeah, that is the downside. And that is a double-edged sword of something like electron like i get why some people don't like it but at the same time i don't know that we'd be getting some of the apps that we do get if it didn't exist yeah i don't think there would be a discord client i don't think there would be a slack client things like that right i agree i i suspect not but it is it is interesting to see kind of how it's evolving when it comes to stuff like that because i feel like we are starting to get more and more apps that are starting to run and i think you know steam decks probably part of that yeah steam decks like being massive for for game support especially, though.

Like Valve... I've talked about the Steam Deck so many times, but Valve dropped the ball so hard when they did Steam Machines. I don't know what they were thinking. Because, what, like six months, a year later, they had the first version of Proton. Like, what are you doing? I'm sure maybe some engineer wanted to push it out. Maybe they thought they would develop a sport.

I really would like to talk to someone from Valve who was there at the time who knows why Steam Machines came out when they did. Because I can imagine a completely different history if Steam Machines dropped alongside Proton. I don't think it would have been this massive thing that everyone adopted, but I do think it would be a lot

less of a failure. Absolutely. 100%. Because, I mean, at the time the support was just so minimal. I know you had Shadow of Mordor. That was one AAA game that did exist, but what else was there? I know you had Shadow of Mordor. That was one AAA game that did exist.

But... Very few. What else was there? You played Counter-Strike? Yeah. Like, I was on anything. Just about. Just about. But yeah, I would be curious to hear that conversation.

I am looking forward to that episode of Tech Over Tea when you get that one to happen. Yeah, I'll see if I uh rope anyone into doing it i'm getting slowly closer and closer to someone at valve i've i've been talking to uh glorious eggroll uh the proton ge guy so like i'll get him on the show if i get him on the show maybe then i can get someone low at valve eventually eventually it's gonna happen eventually i'll find out why because if if i get someone from valve on the show like just just listen you are going to be asked this question i am not going to let you leave until you answer this question i want to know i mean it's probably

going to be the first question like i just don't think you'll be able to stop yourself at that no definitely not i don't blame you because i remember when one of the most puzzling things like i remember when the Steam Machine came out. Like, what year was this? When did Steam Machines happen? Oh my god, it happened in 2015. That was eight years ago! Yeah, I was going to say, I think it was

2014, 2015. Yeah, that was so long ago. It introduced 2014 and then released it 2015. Why? Why? Just why? I don't know. But I thought Proton was a couple years later. Maybe it was a bit later.

Maybe that was when it actually became a thing instead of being talked about. Release. Let's see. I thought it was like 2018 because I feel like I switched to Linux around that same time. No, I was wrong. It was a couple years later. Either way. Maybe I switched to Linux around that same time. No, I was wrong. It was a couple years later. Either way. Maybe

Proton only happened because the C machines failed. Could be. I mean, very possible. I feel like I was just getting into the Linux community, I think, right around then, and so people were all about like, oh, well, they're

trying to step away from Windows're trying to they're trying to stay up step away from windows and trying to find out i mean maybe that's true i i don't know but it's something where you know obviously they they got uh they got discouraged or concerned about something about windows his direction i would assume assume. Gavin has talked about the Windows App Store being a concern. Worried about it becoming like the Apple ecosystem where, you know, you can download apps off the internet for a Mac device, but most people are going to get their apps from the App Store. And, you know, he was worried that Windows would go that same direction.

It hasn't because no one cares. Like, you know, there are worried that windows would go that same direction it hasn't because no one cares like you know there are gw3 apps that exist but they're their own thing and you know most people haven't adopted them in the same way well i don't i don't know if they're still doing it but i remember i maybe it was when my parents got their latest pc it's now running windows 10 or 11 i don't remember now but at at one point, it was like, do you want to allow apps from other sources to be installed? Like, it tries to, it really

tries to hammer you into that Windows store. Yup, yup, yup. I can see why they'll want you to do that, though. Like, you know, they're going to justify it with security and private... I have to try to justify it with privacy, that's hilarious. They're going to going to justify it with security and private... I have to try to justify it with privacy. That's hilarious.

They're going to try to justify it with security and safety and, you know, no viruses, things like that. But it does put a lot of control in the hands of Microsoft, which would... Microsoft would love if they could just have an Android or an iOS-like ecosystem where the only app to install, they were coming from the Windows Store. If you wanted an app on Windows, it's coming through the Windows Store.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. But, yeah. So, yeah, Proton came out, and I actually, I want to say it was just a couple months after that I ended up checking out Linux again, and that's when I first started really using it. So it's been an interesting kind of time to see that develop even from that point. Because even since that time, I feel like Linux gaming has come so far.

I mean, that was a huge step for it. But even since then, like, it's crazy the amount of support I feel like it's gotten. I believe... Yeah, here we go. Liam Dore put out an article on gaming on Linux not that long ago. 10,000 games marked as verified and playable on the Steam Deck. That's pretty crazy. It is pretty crazy.

I remember when they first started doing the verified program. I remember when they first started doing Proton, program, it was like a couple of games. I remember when they first started doing Proton, and it was a couple of games that worked. It was like, here's this list of five games. I've seen the list before. Proton release supported games. Because there was this tiny, tiny list.

I'm not going to be able to find it now because it's from so long ago. No, I'm not finding it. Yes. After this one, I have a good story from so long ago. Do you now? Okay. I can't find it. It's way too buried in history.

Okay. So maybe you have heard about this one. So I remember, I think it was your episode with the Linux team, I believe. He was talking about Hannah Montana Linux, right? Okay, okay. Did you know that there is a Rebecca Black OS? I am aware of that one, yes. Did you know that they supported Weyland in 2013? When did Fedora start supporting it?

Is that before Fedora? I'm pretty sure that's before Fedora, but I don't remember when Fedora did it. Oh, and funny, fun fact, Rebecca Black OS is still being updated. Yeah. Why? oh and funny fun fact uh rebecca black os is still being updated um yeah why i was looking it up for uh i was looking up uh i was trying to talk i think i was talking about why so many distros and i stumbled across rebecca black os and then i saw the update was literally two days before i was recording i'm like wow that's pretty crazy and then uh but yeah they they apparently implemented weston in 2013

it wasn't like usable wm's live distribution to be used to run wayland desktop sessions rebecca black os can run a number of popular open source desktop environments on top of a wayland graphical session the distribution was and remains one of the only Linux distributions to run a Wayland session from live media. The distribution is available in 32... Okay. Wait, all sorts of 32-bit OS support as well. They didn't drop... Yes.

What? It's... Like, I just found it incredible that, like, that was a thing, and they were doing it back in 2013. And I'm just like, wow. That's pretty crazy. Yeah crazy yeah no it actually is uh i got the idea to name a linux distro after my favorite celebrity after i saw some earlier linux distributions named after celebrities and also this kde blog post uh this is amongst the first live distribution to provide a Wayland server. Wait, so it has

nothing to do... It's not like Hannah Montana Linux, where it's like, you know, it's just Hannah Montana themed. It's just a regular distro that has to be called Red Black OS. Yes, it is. And I think it even... I want to say that I even saw that he talks about that and ultimately says something like, you know,

without the copyright material or something. Somebody was comparing it to Hannah Montano without the copyright stuff. I'm like, I mean, okay, that's really random. But yeah, I mean, I was really surprised when I found that in the random internet Linux knowledge base. There are a lot of weird, very weird projects out there that just, just someone felt like was a good idea at some point in history. A lot of the time it wasn't.

But, but I just find it cool that it's still being updated. That's the part I find amazing. That's the most ridiculous part. Yeah. There was, yeah, there's project activity two days ago.

Why? Yeah. Why what what are you doing so how did you actually get yourself like involved in linux like where did you you said you started using it like 2018 but had you experienced it before had you heard about it or yeah so i actually ended up hearing about it probably in the 2006 2007 2008 range okay and i did try it out at one point but at that point in time like you still had a separate uh root user was a common thing um i want to say like i'm trying to remember was it i think we were still in the gnome two days at that point, KDE probably three. I don't remember now, but you know, I kind of messed with it and I just didn't quite get it. Like I didn't, it didn't really click into me like, Hey, this is, this is what you need to do. And of course at that point in time, I was more into PC games anyway, and that just wouldn't really be an option on Linux. I did play around with it a little bit, but ultimately just didn't really stick.

But I was using Windows all day. So I ended up getting a desktop support job at one point. And that's kind of where a lot of people in America at least start in IT. And so I was doing that all day, dealing with Windows problems all day. And then I would come home and hop on TeamSpeak and play PC games on Windows. And then my next job was, again, on Windows. And finally, I just realized, like, I'm just really not enjoying any kind of computing outside of work. Like, I don't want to mess with my computer.

And then, like, my main computer went down. And, like, I just didn't care. Like I was so unmotivated to fix it. I just didn't even bother. And a friend was talking about how he was messing with the Linux. I think this was probably in reaction to some of that Proton stuff, actually. And so, you know, I'm just like, okay, fine, I'll try it out. I mean, I don't really have anything else that I'm trying to do right now on my PC.

So, sure. I'll mess with it and see if it's something that I can get to work. And I ended up installing Linux Mint on an external hard drive and running off the external hard drive for, like, a month. And I'm like, okay. I mean, I didn't have to go back to Windows. I only had to get, like, files. So, fine. We're wiping out Windows and we're going Linux.

And just kind of went from there. I built a machine get like files. So fine, we're wiping out Windows and we're going Linux. And just kind of went from there. I built a machine a year later. It's still running Manjaro somehow from 2019, which is pretty cool. I need to probably wipe it out at some point here and put something else on it. But it is still running. It is. I haven't really had. I think I've had one nvidia graphics

issue with it and it's really been it wow that's good yeah what do you uh sorry go on go ahead i'm gonna say what uh what nvidia how are you running in that one i am running a 980 ti i'm guessing that's a bit old at this point yeah that's not your main gaming box? No, I need to play more PC games. I tend to play on console a little bit more right now. But I do need to play some more PC games. But no, the current machine I'm kind of using right now, it's got a 3080 Ti, I think.

And they dropped in price at one point to a really good one. And I'm like, okay, well, I'm picking this up. And so, at one point to a really good one and I'm like okay well I'm picking this up and uh so yeah it's it's a pretty solid machine I'll probably it's a it's Thaleo so I'll probably be doing a review of that fairly soon but I just haven't got the chance to do so yet but yeah it's uh it's pretty good uh I'm still trying to the NVIDIA thing is definitely a thing but there are other times where you know you kind of need the NVIDIA, especially as I use DaVinci Resolve. Right. Okay.

It's kind of like, okay, well, which path do you want to fight more? But yes. If I do... I've been thinking about a Steam box at some point because I feel like that would help between Steam Deck and Steam Box, if i do that one i'm definitely going amd for that there's no doubt about that yeah if you don't need you know if you don't need cootie you don't need da vinci

yeah definitely yeah like i i know like if it is a really weird one for me because i know someone right he's gonna know who i'm talking about when i'm when i'm saying this he's had nothing but perfect experience using nvidia and then he bought an amd card and it was the worst thing he'd ever bought it was a disaster none of the drivers worked none of the software needed work he sold the card and went back to his nvidia card because it just it was so much smoother for him and i don't understand i i really don't because i maybe i'm just like i didn't my computer's like magic i've never had any driver issues with pretty much anything maybe there's been like a one or two driver crashes here for some random thing but my experience has been mostly rock solid for

pretty much everything i need well and i feel like for me for the most part uh i had at first my hybrid graphics on nvidia just do not agree at all but uh once i got away from that i really haven't had that many nvidia issues until it comes to stuff like wayland but it seems to be a very specific case-by-case basis like i i had a i had a machine where it would run just fine on nvidia card but then i have another one where like it does all this weird stuff on nvidia card and it's i don't know it's really it's really really weird about how specific some of the hardware issues are when it comes to Nvidia stuff. I don't know if that's a,

maybe that's a manufacturer specific thing, potentially. I don't know. I would never like computers. Computers are weird. I don't understand them. I just use them. So what is your,

your way of actually experience being like? A hit and miss.? Hit and miss. Very hit and miss. What were you trying out? I was trying out I was in Nibara 37. I was using Plasma and Wayland.

Most of the time it was fine. But when it comes to if you launch Zoom, no go. it just completely freezes everything and you have to basically switch to x um i even got it to pop up at one point and it said something like if you want to use wayland and use zoom in wayland you need to use gnome like that's it literally said something just like that it was of course you know worded differently but right it literally says use the desktop environment no or you know whatever you

whichever one you want to call it i will i will probably say genome because i'm trying to focus on that um but yes that is that is ultimately what it popped up doing uh screen sharing is still a little weird at times. I had some issues where I was trying to share my screen like in Discord or something, and that just didn't work. I mean, OBS, it works fine. But yeah, I mean, it's been very, very hit and miss.

It really depends entirely on what you're trying to do. And as I found out, you know, when I messed with another computer with an NVIDIA card, it really depends on how good the NVIDIA experience is going to be for you on Wayland. There was the screen sharing. What's it called? X-Wayland Video Bridge. There is that to deal with the screen sharing issue on Wayland.

But yeah, it's still like, it is an extra thing you need to do. The sport's not there in Discord. It's a bit messy as it stands. Honestly, your best option, this is a hack still, your best option is to use the virtual camera camera in obs capture the desktop with obs and then send it as a webcam into discord yep probably so uh but yeah so the other the other thing that

i would say about wyland and you touched on it right there is it just seems like there's all these little things you have to install and sometimes there's really not great documentation actually you know or even worse i don't even know what to ask right you know what i mean like i don't even know what i'm trying to ask it to do um and so like the hyperland i've been looking at that a little bit but the hyperland wiki is good about some of that but other times like it's just it's like okay i go do this and then i go and i looked for this and it's like well this is not working quite right and it's like okay now what do i need to do and now i look for this other application but yeah that is um i think that and uh there was something i was just comparing it to in my head it's like oh it's like a window manager right it really

honestly seems very similar to me because there's all these little things that you have to go and tweak and set up and install. I think for a lot of people, the Wayland experience is going to be Gnome. Maybe KDE when we hit Plasma 6, we'll

see. But right now, Gnome seems to be the most put together wayland experience where it just it works as a thing like i i like piecing together things and working out how all of these things fit together i'm using hyperland i love it it's a great experience except when it crashes which is sometimes more often than it should. Uh, some of the crashes though are not actually, um, Hyperland's fault. It's some other thing in the, the product stack behind it. Like, you know, the GTK portal locks up and crashes my desktop. I had a brave plugin kill my desktop. I don't know how it did that. I didn't know it was possible.

Um, yeah, that's, that's really crazy. I've not heard of something did that. I didn't know it was possible. Yeah. That's really crazy. I have not heard of something like that. That's what it said in my log. So maybe it wasn't that. It was just like that was the last thing the log printed out. But yeah, I don't know. The point is we're I think functionality wise

we are probably like 95 96% of the way there but what we're still missing is that simplicity is that you know on x you don't have to think about getting portals set up or getting all of the rest of this stuff set up it's just it's just there when we get to the point where we have distros that ship all of this stuff just working then i think for a lot of people then it will be good yeah i think for the vast majority it'll be fine then and i mean i i do think you know i do think for if you're not running nvidia card right now especially like i think you're probably fine

for a lot of use cases a lot of the issues are also content creator things like you don't have to worry about obs not working if you're not using obs absolutely yeah and i mean we are edge cases obviously we're gonna be but but yeah i mean we're also trying to constantly break our systems installing stuff looking at stuff yeah like i i get it like i'm not going to be the ideal case for wayland at this point um but yeah that's uh that's been that's been my experience but i i tend to agree with your kind of thought that in probably the next year or two it's probably going to be good for the vast majority of people i don't want to be the next year or two but i definitely do think next couple of years for sure like you know three four

i think by the time we hit so i i there are definitely like murmurings about gtk5 being weyland only and if that's the case then gnome is weyland only by that point i think like a lot of the issues have been resolved and it's just a matter of putting them together makes sense i think there will always be a place for the you know for the hyperlands for the sways for the rivers where it's you know it's a desktop you piece together because you know there's already that on the x side with the the window manager stuff where right you could go and install katie and katie is going to work great next you could go and install KDE and KDE's gonna work great in X. You could go and install GNOME or XFC or anything like that and everything's just

there for you as is but like the reason why Arch exists, there's always gonna be people that wanna have this more you know, digging into the weeds, working out exactly how they want things to fit together. Maybe not even fitting things together. You just grab two puzzle pieces

that don't fit, you just jam them together. Like, oh, that works. Might as well. It does the job good enough. That's half my system. But for the regular person, I think when these desktops, and I think distros like Nobara are making things easier.

Distros like Ubloo are making things easier. But it's still a little bit away. Agreed. Agreed. I thought you were going to say something more there. Well, no. So I was about to ask, you're still running

Arch, yes? Yes, Arch and Hyperland. Yes, okay. Yeah, I'm running Arch right now. I'm running i3, the Arco linux i3 i i actually think that they probably should split the config file out into multiple files but that's just me because uh it's kind of annoying looking at 800 line files yeah i've looked at the arco configs and arco arco is a great distro and a great i guess it's not really a distro. It's just Arch upstream.

I guess you'd call it an Arch configuration script effectively in the form of an ISO. But Arco's configs, we've talked about these before, they are too comprehensive. I looked at my... I have alacrity installed and alacrity the developers wrote a ridiculous config it's like 1500 lines long it's got all the documentation in the config and that's fine for one application but when every single application has a 1500 line config, I don't know how to deal with this. Yes.

And, you know, it's helpful because in some aspects, I'm looking at I3 trying to understand, like, what's even possible. And in that respect, like, I think it's really helpful. But there are other times, like, where I'm just like, okay, do I just take this file, back it up, and then just start my own thing and just build line by line by line? And I'm really thinking that's probably the way I'm going to end up going if I'm going to stick on I3. I don't know. I may end up trying something else.

But I'm just kind of still trying to find kind of that ideal setup for me. Obviously, with content creation and gaming sometimes a window manager's not ideal no they're not no definitely not so uh yeah i don't know i'm i'm still playing with it i'm still trying to see ultimately what the best fit is um i kind of i'm kind of actually debating going like debian and then like distro box okay or something like that i don't know because i i've i've been thinking about um you know the whole argument um that uh that uh george was making about you know wanting to make sure that you have a stable box and i mean yes that is true but i also need to be able to hack on my system and it's kind of a it's kind of a tough thing to do with a you know a mutable distro sometimes and so i don't know it's uh it's

something where i need to i need to really kind of figure that out but that's that's what i've kind of been thinking about would be a potential way to do it but i'm kind of i'm also i really like a lot of the things in arch um i like Nobara pretty well too but there's just there's some things in Fedora that kind of just irk me in some ways and it's just weird things yeah it's well the Red Hat stuff has not helped much at all but uh I don't know how much I don't think any impact on Fedora but it just you know it's just one of those things where people are probably gonna kind of push away a little bit from some of their projects i had so many people who just okay every time i talk about fedora there's always people like fedora is controlled by red hat it's controlled by ibm except in this one case when i talked about

like you know red hat doing their thing changing the source code, I had people being like, is Fedora going to be okay? Is Fedora fine? Guys, did everybody forget that Fedora is a Red Hat project? How did you all forget this all of a sudden? The guy who runs it is a Red Hat engineer. A lot of the core developers are Red Hat engineers. Why did everyone forget this?

I mean, it's literally the testing ground for Red Hat Enterprise Linux. Yeah. I don't know. But yeah, I could see people moving away from that, but yeah, I don't see any effect on the actual project itself. No, it's going to be fine. Yeah.

I don't know. I've talked so much about the Red Hat stuff this week already. Like, it's... I understand. Like, I've done two videos... No, I've talked so much about the Red Hat stuff this week already. I understand. I've done two videos. No, I've done three videos on it. I've done three videos on it. The third one's not out yet. I did the first one on Red Hat's original announcement.

Second one on their response to their criticism of their announcement. Third one is going to be on the Software Freedom Conservancy's take on the whole situation um and they're not very happy about it uh as as you might expect but they're not going so far as calling red hat spyware like they did with ubuntu back in the day i remember that that was fun back when um ubuntu had the amazon shopping lens yeah yeah and they were just like i vaguely remember that yeah spyware um but i think their general stance was red hat is red hat tries their their hardest to be a they to respect the GPL were acting as much like a proprietary company as

possible. Like they're as close to the line as they can possibly get so sometimes they make mistakes and shift slightly over that line. Well and I made a video about it. I wasn't initially intending

to talk about it but the thing that I missed is some people were just like, well, why would you be using RHEL? And I just want to be like, there are some places where you're going to need to use RHEL. But, you know, I talked about that. And I think one of the comments was something like, anytime a publicly traded company gets involved and it just ruins everything. I kind of get the sentiment but at the same time it's one of those weird catch-22s with open sources you kind

of have to have some of that business because at times you know it's really going to be difficult to actually keep certain projects going right i mean you, that's why we have some of the distros we have because of, you know, companies putting money into them specifically because of, you know, whatever product they want to make. So I don't know. It's a really tricky thing. It's something where I think the situation is a lot more complex than most people seem to think it is. But yeah, definitely not the move that i would have made for anyone curious about the relationship between fedora redhead and ibm i clipped out the segment where matthew miller talked about that from uh i guess like whatever

whatever matthew was on the show i think it's like two weeks ago i'm very ahead in my uh my backlog of shows so i can't remember when things actually came out but last week as we're recording this and his basic basic stance was the demands that red had an ibm make are no different than what a shareholder would have made anyway it's not not like IBM is doing anything crazy to Red Hat. It's just they own the company and are making the same sort of demands that any publicly traded company would have if it wasn't just owned by some massive corporation.

Absolutely. And I mean, yeah. And I don't know. It's one of those deals where, like I say, it's really a difficult thing that I think eventually we're going to have to figure something out because I just don't see how some of the business model for open source continues the way it is. I think you've brought up the guy who decided that he was no longer going to update his LeftPad app. Yes, yes, LeftPad. left pad app yes yes left pad and broke broke half the sites on the internet you know i mean there's stuff like that all the time where you know a big company will use it and not do anything

with it or you know the or something like this and i don't know it's something we're gonna have to figure out because it's it's eventually gonna be more necessary well when left pad happened like npm had to change their policies about project removal. You've got to be like a very, you've got to be either malware or have a very special reason to be removed from NPM at this point. Because back then, anybody could just delete a project just if they wanted to. Which is a problem if someone with millions of downloads a week decides to do it. Yeah. But back to that point about some people wanting to use rel like what value does it does distro like rel actually bring to a bring bring maybe not to an individual because that i think that's where people are

approaching it from why would an individual want to use it But that's not the people who are really the main target of something like RHEL. No. Yeah, so I don't know why an individual wouldn't want to use it. Unless they were just, you know. Unless they're a developer. Yeah, unless they were a developer or they were really involved in the Red Hat, you know, Red Hat Enterprise Online System or, you know, they wanted to learn it. Yeah.

Something like that. But, yeah, companies tend to want to use it because of the support contract. That's one big thing that they, you know, will often take advantage of. I was talking about that in my video, that ultimately like the support contract for RHEL, if you have like a level one outage

or level one severity ticket, like they have to respond to you within an hour. Level one being? Like your production system is down, losing data, something like that. Yeah. So that's their most severe ticket. And like they have to respond within an hour.

They have to keep talking to you every hour, like within an hour, every time. They have to keep replying to you within an hour. And for like their premium customers or whatever, like that is 24 7 365 so that is one reason and then also the uh the fact that certain products actually require you to have a specific you know setup for to get support for them oracles really good about that i know we all love oracle but um but but yeah, that's another reason why, you know,

some places do really want to use Red Hat Enterprise Linux is because they want to have support from the product that they just, you know, bought a license for. But then the other thing is like, I don't, and you mentioned this, I think in a previous episode, and I was like, yeah, that's very true. Because, you know, the size of Red hat uh compared to canonical and seuss like those are the only two kind of companies i know that are even in that sort of even i i don't even know if i say ballpark i don't even know what i'd say universe um because i mean it's red hat is so much bigger yes it's it's like 10 times at the least bigger than canonical if not 30 times bigger depending on how much the price would actually be um so yeah so according to a google

search that is probably very accurate um red hat's revenue in 2018 was 34 billion. Keep in mind that's 2018, so that's actually before COVID, and they skyrocketed in value. Yes. Canonical in 2020 at $141 million, and then SUSE at $450 million. Right. And so I just looked at what each company is worth. So for context, Microsoft is 168 billion. So-

Yeah. Yes. Yes. Way bigger than all of them. But yeah. So Seuss, the market cap for Seuss is like $2.6 billion. So if you wanted to buy Seuss, it would be $2.6 billion in straight stock, right?

Canonical is obviously not publicly traded. So I think the numbers I saw, it was like, this was a couple of years ago, so I assume it's probably went up. But the numbers I saw were like a billion to 3 billion. And then it's like, okay. And then Red Hat's over here being sold for $34 billion.

And it's like, there's, I mean, it's just a completely different world. Yo, yo. Yeah, Red Hat is massive is the point how did we get to this where were we going I don't remember I think we were just jumping off the point of you know

open source and the business of open source and things like that oh wait I remember what I was going to go to I think a lot of people also oh no I don't remember we'll get to that other point in a bit this gets back to the point of why companies why a lot of companies were using

things like CentOS and why companies started using Rocky Linux and Alma Linux because there is a lot of software packages built with that system a lot of people on the desktop, they think about distros as in a mostly interchangeable thing. You could just use this distro or that

distro, but when you have a software package built specifically for RHEL, you need to be on RHEL if you want any reasonable level of support. And then distros like CentOS and Rocky Linux and AlmaLinux come along and they are one-to-one compatible.

A lot of people didn't understand why would you want to be one-to-one bug-for-bug compatible with RHEL? What is the value there? The value is being in that same sphere as RHEL and being able to get that same level of support you would get if you were using RHEL directly. Yeah, and even beyond that just test environments and things

like that where you didn't necessarily need excuse me, didn't necessarily need the license being taken up by that there was someone that sent me an interesting this is getting like into Red Hat conspiracy territory which I love so

someone sent me a god where is it my discord has absolute nonsense in it uh where is the post from yesterday about why it happened like kind of now like what what's the deal with now why why uh Why would they care to do it? What chat is it in? Someone sent me a ping. I'll find it because it's beautiful. Because there are a couple of government contracts that have been happening recently,

a couple of companies that have been getting involved. Here it is okay so someone first sent me that NASA had a contract with Rocky Linux yeah NASA secured a contract with Rocky Linux and then

also CERN was going to use Alma Linux maybe this is getting into conspiracy territory but it seems really interesting Also, CERN was going to use AlmaLinux. Maybe this is getting into conspiracy territory, but it seems really interesting, the timing on this. Yeah, I had not heard about that. But yeah, that's a really interesting timing for sure. I don't think it's like the thing that did it, but I would imagine it's sort of the camel that broke the straws back.

The straw that broke the camel's back is that last little push they needed to be like, okay, this is a problem that we need to deal with now. Mm-hmm. Yeah, very much so. Very possible. Very possible. Yeah, I... Go ahead.

Sorry, you can go ahead. What were you saying? Oh, I was going to say we could probably move on from Red Hat, though. I feel like most people are probably sick of it by now. Yeah, probably. Like, by the time this comes out, it'll be old news anyway. So what is your... Maybe this is going to age yourself.

When did you start getting into computing? Like. Yeah. So I ended up getting, so I'm probably a little younger than I look. The lights probably don't really help, but I'm just, just a late thirties right now. So ultimately I got into computing in the windows 3.1 days. I got into computing in the Windows 3.1 days. I had a Packard Bell machine with the,

they had actually a custom like OS on top of it. I don't know if it was an OS, a layer on top of it. I'm trying to, Packard Bell Navigator. If you can find a picture of that. Packard Bell Navigator. Oh my goodness. So they took, they basically took and tried to remove the actual Windows desktop. What the hell am I looking at?

Yeah, I can't actually see your screen, but I assume you're looking at a hallway with doors. Yes, that's exactly what I'm looking at. Yeah, and so you'd go into the door and you'd be able to launch like specific apps so like they had one like workspace or whatever where you'd have like a word processor and they'd had one like a kid's space where you had like games and stuff so yeah that is what uh that was my first computer i remember um the uh the the thing the first like thing that i was trying to figure out how to do was install a floppy disk game i didn't realize you had to actually go to DOS to do this. And so somebody, you know, a friend of the family showed me how to do that. And I kind of figured that out. And, you know, of course, at that point,

it's like, that's really interesting. You're like, going to this prompt and typing things in. And then the game starts up. Fun fact, that game had copy protection on it and you had to actually read the manual to start a mission because the the mission would tell you like a specific phrase from the manual and you had to go get the next three letters that is the most 90s copy protection i've ever seen yes it took me forever to figure that out because i mean at the time i was like eight or nine years or uh yeah 10 or 11 years old i'm just like i don't know what this thing is even asking i hadn't read the manual why would i do that that sounds like the kind of thing you would see in some like game magazine like hey here's how you get to the secret level type in this specific

key phrase yeah but uh but yes that that was when later on I realized, oh, that's the copy protection. They didn't want people just copying the floppy disk. There is some great copy protection from that. Before we had DRM like we have now, some of those early things devs tried, they were just fun. My favorite one

is um is spyro where the game mostly works fine but you get to a certain boss and it just resets the entire game but it doesn't reset it properly so it actually soft locks the game like you you still have all of the things you've collected but npcs are missing so you can't go to like further further stages and the game just completely just breaks in half yeah there's there's all kinds of interesting stuff like that you know the impossible bosses that you just can't beat um yeah all kinds of stuff like that it was really an interesting time to see some of that and look back on it now because, yeah, there is some of, like you say, very 90s, very 90s Captain Protection right there.

Even some stuff a bit later than that, like Dark Souls 1. Dark Souls 1 with that, people got pre-release copies of that. I think the first enemy... All of the enemies in the tutorial area were replaced... Have you ever played Dark Souls? Yes. Okay. So all of the enemies in the Asylum were replaced with Black Knights.

And that was before you even had your sword. So you could get through it. You absolutely could. But... You had to get good at the game very quickly. before you even had your sword so you could get through it you absolutely could but yeah you had to get good at the game very quickly yeah i probably could not get through it um yeah i but yeah i i haven't i haven't got too far into the dark soul stuff i did get a lot into elden ring that was a lot of fun that game is i need to insane uh oh man it it's like, I have

not had a game click like that in a while. I need to actually, I'm at that very end, I need to actually go and beat it. But yeah, it's just one of those deals where that game, I was so not interested in that game, because

it was just another Dark Souls game, and I'm like, okay, I mean, you know, whatever, um but then like some of the reviews started hitting and i started just seeing some of the gameplay and i'm like this looks more akin to like what i what i tended to compare it more to is like skyrim where that is kind of the thing where everybody was talking about that game and people like, like, even people, just random people in Jujutsu were talking about that game. And, you know, I didn't even really necessarily know

they were gamers, but they were talking about Elden Ring. Everybody was. It was so cool because everybody was talking about, you know, if you go here, you know, it's all that kind of stuff. Yeah, Elden Ring, that, I'm not surprised it did well,

but I didn't think it would do that well, because that was, that pushed from software for a bit, like, they were always a company known, they were known for Dark Souls, they were, you know, known for Sekiro, like, people knew they existed, but that really, that was their first game that genuinely hit the mainstream audience, and people who weren't fans

of the series actually gave it a shot and when they did like the uh the game awards that year were insane like every single category that had elden ring elden ring would win it unless god of war ragnarok was in the same category and then they would just fight to the death over which was going to win win that award basically every category is won by one of those games well and it's also just crazy to me how i feel like a lot of open world games now like it's it's just crazy to me the level of detail that they actually had in comparison because i mean you know sometimes you get a lot of more kind of uh procedural generation stuff and like a lot of it felt very specific and very you know specific and so I think that's something that really stood out about that game to me but it's something where you know it's like I'm not saying

it's like the best game ever or anything but like it was just a really awesome game and it came out on a year where i i mean beyond god of war ragnarok i don't know that there's much else that really stood out to me in general i see not really like there was a couple of good indie games for sure like absolutely stray came out that year stray was also incredible but triple a wise like i can't think of anything nah no i i can't either and i'm sure i'm forgetting like one or two that i'm like oh yeah that was pretty good but but yeah uh but yeah i've i've i'm mostly to the point where i tend to play more indie type games and um you know it's it's a shame but i mean that's just the way it is right now to me anyway um but yeah that's a that is that is something you definitely need to get to brody i feel bad for the horizon forbidden

west developers because that game also came out in 2022 everyone just forgot it existed oh wait a spider-man game also came out okay sure uh oh that was remastered ah yeah okay yeah that doesn't count yeah um so spider like spider-man when it first came out like yeah that game was awesome that is uh that was honestly one of my favorite games that year i recently i'm not a big like superhero guy i recently um watched the into the spider-verse and then whatever the sequel was called i I don't remember. But I actually do want to go and actually play the PlayStation Spider-Man games. The Amazing Spider-Man Miles Morales, all that stuff.

Because they seem really fun. It seems like something different from what I would normally play as well. Because I'm a big I am very big on JRPGs and it's nice to try out something different from time to time. So I don't have the fancy figures that you do but i mean like i have you know i've i've been watching anime since

like i was a teenager at this point because uh that was actually when it first started like actually becoming a thing over here like yuha show and dragon ball z and all that that's that's when all of that was coming out so yeah i uh i i'm into the jrpgs as well chrono trigger some of those classics especially but yeah the uh i need to get into final fantasy 16 and i just haven't yet but it's on my list besides besides 16 which i'm also playing on stream very good game highly recommend it. I'm not going to say anything about it because you just need to play it. But I'm also playing Final Fantasy XII.

Nice. It's actually very different game. Yeah, it's... It's... I don't know. Like, I don't know how to explain XII. It's a... Because it's a game that you can make play itself if you really want to with the gamut system yeah yeah yeah yeah um and i hear so this

is obviously zodiac age but i hear the original version was a lot harder because zodiac age is not difficult zodiac age is very easy. Pretty much every encounter in the game can be solved by spamming Thundara. Until you get to a boss that has reflect, and then you wipe your entire party, because you don't really have reflect. That just reflects your entire damage back on yourself. That's great right there.

I didn't... I didn't, one thing that stood out to Final Fantasy XII, because I think before that one, for Final Fantasy X, obviously XI was online, but Final Fantasy X, Final Fantasy IX, VIII, and VII were more focused on, like, the characters, and Final Fantasy XII was really more focused

on, like, political stuff going on in the nations in the game and you were just kind of like there a lot of times well yeah the main character technically is supposed to be van but like he's not the main character yeah he's just chills in the background half the time while ash is doing stuff last is doing stuff Penelo is even more important than he is. And I do, I know, it's kind of nice to not be it's nice to play a game sometimes

where you're not the chosen one. Maybe you are the chosen one, I've not finished it, but you're not the chosen one from the start of the game. Like you're not, everyone's like this is why, I'm also a FFXIV player as well. This is why I really like, I've played player as well this is why i really like played a while this this is why i like stormblood because in stormblood you are basically just another soldier

like you know you are sent out to go kill the big scary bad guy when they show up but half the time like you're not there to solve everyone's problems like you are with most of the other expanses and like you are in most mmos like you know you play wow for example you are with most of the other expansions, like you are in most MMOs, like, you know, you play WoW, for example, you are there to save the day. You are there to, you know, you're the key focus. Like, it's nice to do something different. It really is. Yeah, it is.

And it's always interesting when a game tries to do that and then they just kind of don't. But yeah, it's interesting to see how they go when a game tries to do that and then they just kind of don't. But yeah, it's interesting to see how they go from you're not the chosen one to you're the chosen one or, you know, how they just start you out as the chosen one from the beginning and all that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been what's the meaning to play? A bunch of games, you know, you always have a ton of games in your Steam list where you're just like, I need to play this at some point, but, you know, I'll get to it eventually.

Like, Armored Core comes out in August. Oh, goodness. Yeah. I feel like everything is coming out, and I'm a big co-op player, so I feel like, what is it, Remnant 2 is coming out i think that's gonna be really good um armored core i think is gonna be really interesting i'm

hoping that i'm it's gonna be something i'm gonna be into and then there's something else that uh is coming out um atlas i forget anyway there's i feel like there's several co-op games that seem like they could be pretty solid coming out in the next couple of months so it's going to be interesting to play that and see you know what ends up turning out good what ends up running on linux and all that good stuff considering where we are now like a lot of games i don't even really think about games whether they work or not like a lot of the time i just buy a game i don't even check proton db i'll maybe i'll do like a quick look but unless i know that it has like anti-cheat i don't even bother really and most of the time it's at least a silver sometimes a gold or a platinum like well i guess it's fine then

sure we'll play it yeah and i mean it's, it's always crazy to see people just like, oh yeah, this is unverified, but it works fine on Steam Deck. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, the Steam Deck verification is kind of weird. I've criticized the way the criteria works and some of the focuses they have.

But hey, if it gets developers doing things in a better way, sure, go ahead, whatever. It's fine. Yeah. Well, as part of the game jam, I actually got my game running on the Steam Deck, which was kind of cool. I was able to use the dev tools and just load it.

And I was like, that's really cool. I actually got it to, you know, over here on the Steam Deck, running, working with the controls. So what did you actually do for the Game Jam? I didn't ask you about that. Yeah, so I just did a very simple platformer. It was something where I ended up using assets that I found, you know, for free

and just did that route. I was thinking about, like, I want to do some more pixel art stuff and see if I could get into that a little bit more. But it was something where I had 10 days to do it. I had to learn a lot about game development. But yeah, just a simple platformer that puts a couple of levels, really tried to focus on some of the movement it was something where i had 10 days to do it i had to learn a lot about game development but yeah just a simple platformer that uh it's a couple of levels really tried to focus on some

of the movement and things like that just to see what i could do make a you know tried some things uh tried to create like a checkpoint system it kind of worked didn't work quite as well on the moving platforms but uh you know yeah yeah happens um but yeah that yeah it was a very simple game but I was just really cool it was really cool to me to be able to take it and actually just over Wi-Fi just send it directly to the Steam Deck and just be like oh yeah, it's running, great

I've not really done game development in quite a while I did a bit of mobile game dev during uni I've done a bit of very early, very simple Java stuff when I was first learning to program. But I think it would be cool to go and actually do a proper project at some point.

Get involved with Game Jam. Just do something fun. Do something different. Yes. Yeah, and that's why I initially even did it. Just to see if it was something that like i was gonna enjoy because like that's what i've been trying to figure out during this you know 100 days of code stuff is just seeing you know what what can i actually

do with code at this point what do i feel like i'm you know i've actually advanced to at this point and so you know when i talked to myself into doing the game gem i'm like okay we'll just see how this goes and i you know i really liked it i, like I said, I felt like a lot of it was actually clicking for me. And so it was something where I really enjoyed trying to kind of put everything together, trying to learn some of the new things in, I'm using Github for, for this particular project. I'm going to look at maybe Unity. I don't know about, I don't know about it on Linux, but, you know, I'm going to look at a couple a couple engines and just see but i think i'm probably gonna stick and get out for for a while and uh but yeah it's just been it's just been cool to kind of look at it and dig into it and try to see if i can actually

make something yeah i think that's the important part just play around with it and just like you know maybe it's something you just do as a one-off thing and maybe you'd never do it again. But I think it's good to experience new things. Like, as fun as it is to just keep doing what you've always been doing, what you know you like, maybe you realise there's something out there that

you had no idea was going to grab your attention and all of a sudden you're like, oh, I now have a new hobby. Maybe I can do this as like another thing alongside what I do. Right. And I mean, you know, it's one of those things where who knows, maybe I'll get to the point where I actually can release this game that I have a game project in mind for next, but I just have to, you know, I have to see if it's something where I really want to keep driving

through and keep going with it. But I mean, it's just cool to kind of think about and actually think, yeah, I could probably do that this way. I could probably do, you know, this. And it's just cool to be able to have that thought process and actually be able to think about potential ways to make it happen. As you're going through this process, what was, like, one of the biggest challenges you had? For the game gem?

Yeah, yeah. Besides obviously learning how the engine works, were there any things you wanted to implement that were a lot harder to do than you thought they were? I feel like everything. No, but in all seriousness, so just things like I said, I had a checkpoint system where it basically decided you figured out where you were.

And then if you weren't on the ground, it wasn't going to update the checkpoint. But when you got to the moving platforms, those are constantly moving. So I couldn't just use a standard, like, you know, global position at that point. So it was something where I would have liked to have figured out how to make it work on those where you'd reappear back on that platform. But just around the time. liked to have figured out how to make it work on those where you'd reappear back on that platform but just run out of time the other thing that i really found difficult at times was actually level design uh because you know not being as familiar with like necessarily how far a jump's gonna go or anything like that with the the setup i had and with the time i had to do it that's where it was it was a bit tricky to kind of see that um just kind of think about, okay, what would be cool to do in a level?

So I think, you know, I think in the future, if I end up doing anything where I need levels like that, I'm probably going to try to draw them or something first and just see something like that. that was one tricky thing was just that and just, you know, kind of really thinking about what would be worth adding the things, you know, adding some of the things like jump buffering and coyote time and things like that. Just some of the niceties that people like in platformers and all that was just getting all that working wasn't too big of a deal. But yeah, just kind of when it came to some of the nuts and bolts of how to actually make it more fun that's where it really gets starts to get tricky right with your with your checkpoints were you doing them like every so often like every time like certain amount of time they would um they would trigger or was it like a marker on the ground every every certain

amount of time they would trigger i think i had a good uh what i was gonna say is i think if you did a marker that would actually make it a lot easier because then you could you could say the checkpoint so instead of referencing a position in the world you can reference where you can reference the checkpoint itself and then as you need to go back to the checkpoint you can use the current location of the checkpoint as the as the reference point to teleport to so if you do have the checkpoint moving then you should be able to update it as it has the platform going back and forth very possible and um you know if i end up doing a game like that in the future that's probably the approach i'll try but i was just you know i was just something I, that was honestly just a feature that I was just like, you know,

it'd be cool if we could have a checkpoint. So, you know, if the person's on the ground for longer than like, I don't know, a second or whatever it was, then we'll mark that down as their checkpoint. And, but yeah, Godot has a, has a system in place where you can basically have something run every frame. And so that's what I essentially tied it to. And it's like, okay, if this timer is done and they're on the ground, that's a checkpoint. I think the other way you could do it is you could check

if there's ground below the player and if there isn't, move them to the nearest ground. That's the other way you could approach it. That might be another way to try it too yeah maybe you'd want to move them backwards so you don't end up using the checkpoint to skip jumps but i don't know there's certainly ways it could be done yeah i also could have just not probably

just not um not no just not not done it on a moving platform right right fair i probably just could have said if you know the collision laser moving platform just not, not done it on a moving platform. Right, right. Fair enough. I probably just could have said if, you know, the collision laser moving platform, just not do it there. I probably would have done that. Yeah. But yeah. But yes, obviously now, like, I feel like I've learned even so much since then, just because I've been able to go back and really try to focus more on learning and just kind of expanding that knowledge. But yeah, I mean, it was like, I just remember that Saturday morning I had had signed it started on friday night uh u.s time so i signed up and then like that saturday morning i just sat and just kind of stared at my computer i'm like what should i really try to do did you have an idea before you went into it uh no and that's so i tried to think upon that night and

i'm like okay so maybe like an action platformery game where, you know, you're taking out robots because my, my story story quote unquote idea was that, uh, AI had tried to delete the Linux source code. I mean, it's a Linux game jam, right? So, uh, something silly like that. But ultimately then I'm just like, after lunch that day, I'm just like, you know what? Uh, I probably just need to strip this down and just go just basic platformer, just see what I can do, try to learn as much as I can this weekend. It was a holiday weekend, luckily for me. So I was able to spend a lot of that time just kind of focused on learning as much as I could and then kind of started it back, really pushing on it on Monday. So yeah, it was, but it was a fun experience. I definitely recommend if you're going to do a game jam to look for one

that maybe doesn't just last 48 hours. That sounds like that would be a real challenge. 48 hour ones are interesting, but then you end up having, you know, you have people that do, you know, 30 hour days.

Some people just go the entire game jam and not sleep or they'll have like an hour nap somewhere in between yes yes and uh yeah i i don't really want to do that at this point i am i am one of those people like i have a general kind of schedule that i stick to regardless of the day of the week even on the weekends like i'm probably going to be up tomorrow by 4 45 or 5 5 30 something like that and people are like on the weekend and like yeah that's the only way you can make this work like that's the only way you can make that happen if you do if you don't get up on the weekend you're probably not making that happen in the week no uh i i don't get up at 4 45 but i do have a schedule

i'm up at like eight o'clock every day because i work nights as well so i'm getting home around 11 o'clock i go to bed around midnight um i'm not getting up at 4 45 i'm doing that god no uh but yeah i think a schedule is really good a schedule a schedule is a good thing to have because it just it keeps you like i know people that have like... I did this as a teenager. Where it's like, you know... Oh, I did this in college. Yeah. I go to bed at 3am.

Then I go to bed at 6am. Then I go to bed at 1am. Then I go to bed at 10pm. Then it's like... You just never end up having anything consistent. And when you're young, you can do that. Absolutely. The second I hit like 21, 22, I'm like, no, this is too much.

I can't do this anymore. I'm 25 now. I'm too old for this. It's not going to happen. Yes. And that's, but yeah. So I, but I generally just stick to the schedule, but I get up so early because I like to try to work on stuff before work

because I, you know, I'm generally trying to learn about something about programming or maybe i'm working on youtube something um i've recorded videos during that time at some points um i there was one video that i just had a title at the bottom yes i'm i'm recording this at like 6 a.m um so yeah i mean like i i do tend to get a decent amount done at that time before work and i find it really useful to start the day that way just to kind of really put some of that morning energy in there because i feel like sometimes by the time you're done with the day like you know it's at least for my job when i'm kind of working in that same space that i'd be working on for youtube or programming or anything it's it's just a different different thing at the

end of the day sometimes yeah if i'm gonna get up early well well i usually like to start my day with a workout so like get on the bike do things like that um i i i usually don't start working before like 9 30 ish this is you know this is youtuber life i if like if i didn't if i didn't work the job i do i my sleep schedule would be even worse i'd be like you know 3 a.m every day get up at midday but i'd still be getting my like eight hours like i'm still i'm gonna get my eight hours no matter what happens they may shift to some ridiculous time but it is going to be a schedule there yep and. And, um, oh yeah, but that's the other thing I've been thinking about doing more in the morning is a workout, but it just, it ends up

working out better for me right after work. That's fair. That's when I tend to knock it out, but yeah. No, I get, I get this. Well, I know people that like, you know, they go into the gym at midnight because now, you know, and now that most gyms are 24 hour gyms, you can just, you know, if you want to go at three in the morning and some people like that because, you know, there's basically no one there. You just have, you have the one dude who hasn't left the gym since 10 a.m. that day and then there's you.

That's pretty much it. I mean, you know, and sometimes that's all you really need, right? I just tend to work out here. I have my own equipment some equipment anyway so i just shouldn't do that but um but i do uh i do jiu-jitsu and muay thai so that is the other thing i need to get back to you i haven't been as much lately just because i have been so busy and it's one of those opportunity cost things have you always been doing that do you get into that

as an adult or yeah i got that into that as an adult i wish i i wish i had been doing that uh jiu-jitsu is a lot of fun muay thai it's it's fun it's not as like it's not my primary thing i tend to prefer the jiu-jitsu piece but yeah i mean it's just it's just something different that i ended up i was interested in for years and finally like i'm like around the middle of 2020 I started intermittent fasting I lost like a lot of weight I've gained some of the back sense but you know I just stopped getting in my own way essentially I stopped a lot of self-limiting beliefs and like so that's where I just said okay fine we're just gonna you know we're gonna try this jiu-jitsu thing I'm probably gonna suck at it and I mean I still kind of suck at it but ultimately like that's not the point the point

is like i'm having you know i'm having fun with it like that's the other night when i posted the uh pixel art that i had done on twitter like that was literally the first thing i'd done in pixel art but like i just don't care anymore that's that's why one reason i started appearing on camera is because i was like okay to make this actually work like i think i actually do have to start appearing on camera i have to let a little bit more of my personality out because i mean people can find you know some of my earlier videos essentially in a text you know text uh article i'm like so i have to figure something out and so finally i just just said screw it i'm just gonna to start, you know, doing whatever. No, I think it's a good mentality to have.

I did taekwondo as a kid. I got, I didn't get too far. I was like a yellow belt or something. I do wish I'd kept it up. And I would definitely like to get back into a martial art like jiu-jitsu at some point as well. It's just a matter of time. It's just finding the time to actually do it and i'm sure i could find the time if i really wanted to like that's the thing

but i don't know there's so many things i want to do like i want to i want to start like i want to like learn archery as well at some point and yeah it's it's just a matter of actually finding time alongside the other things like do, do I drop this hobby? Do I cut time out of the hobby? I can't get rid of the things I need to do. So, I don't know. It's just on the back burner for now. Yes, and that's exactly what I'm kind of facing right now.

Because it's like, okay, I want to do the YouTube stuff. I want to do the programming stuff. I want to do the Jujutsu stuff. And it's like, I can go to Jiu Jitsu and Muay Thai, but that's like three hours. And I could do so many other things in that three hours. Yeah. So it's just a, you know, it's just a thing where I have to kind of find that balance. And I'm sure in the next, I'm planning to actually start going back here in the next few weeks and really get back into it. But it's, it yeah it's just a different experience the funny thing about jiu-jitsu guys at least to some extent is a lot of them are nerds because it's a very technical martial art so you're having to often think about okay so you know if this person does this i'm going to try to do this and you know

just kind of start reacting and stuff but yeah i mean there it was really kind of crazy how many people there were either like in it or um you know some of them were emts just all kinds of different people and a lot of them were nerds i mean uh you know i i remember uh various conversations about various anime attack on titan was one a common one at the time it definitely does sound like a a good experience for sure um and i've got i've got some friends who got into it a while back as well and like you know the the friends i had were in my suffering hearing degree who got into it so like you know it goes back into what you're saying like a lot of a lot of nerdy people get into it um i guess i guess the difference with that and then something like not to say that like you know boxing

or other striking heavy martial arts are like just for like you know just for brutes or whatever but i think there's like that there there's that different perception for sure. You think of someone who is a boxer, you think of someone who's a big wall of muscle. They're going to just knock you out in one hit. But with that more technical approach, I can see how that would be like that. Well, and the other interesting thing to me about

jujitsu is like we so in the in the gym you're rolling you're not sparring you're rolling against another person and uh you know some people you can go and have a very kind of flow roll with you're not really trying to be explosive athletically like that's just not what either one of you were trying to do. You're trying to focus specifically on technique or something like that. And then you'll have somebody else where, you know, that's what they want to do. They want to go fast. They want to, you know, especially the teenagers, the teenagers, they just want to go as fast as they can. And, and sometimes, you know,

they'll get to you and sometimes they won't, but the, but yeah, that's, that's the interesting thing to me is just how technical it can get and how, like, how just nerdy it can get at the same time. And the other thing that I would say, too, is with striking, you know, at least for, you know, at least for the nerds, they have to often rely on their brain. So there's only so many times they can get punched in the face. And before they're going to have permanent damage you know or something like that and i would not want to get into this i i like taekwondo as young but i you don't want to be you don't want to be in a sport where you get kicked in the head that's that's not good for you yes for sure and uh but yeah that is something where you know you have to limit just things like that you have to limit your uh your you have to limit contact you can't always spar like every day but

in jiu-jitsu as long as you're willing to tap early and you're not going to do something stupid to you know you're not working yourself for each other also the person you're working with isn't stupid and is going to go too hard when you tap. Well, I mean, that's part. So part of that is about the coach knowing a little bit more about the students and all that and making sure that you don't have two total newbies trying to fight. You think, or roll,

you think that that would be a good idea, but then some people just really are spazzy. The spazzy white belt is a very common jiu jitsu meme. And I mean, for good reason, like there are just times where like, they'll just be, they'll just be throwing an elbow or something like that. And like, I am, I am basically a four, I think I have a four stripe white belt. So ultimately, like I'm right at the end of white belt to the point where i'd be getting a blue belt and like there are times where it's very obvious when somebody has had past experience wrestling or something like that like i mean night and day compared to some of the other people but uh but yeah i mean you you do have to watch out if you if you're rolling against somebody newer because you don't really know what you're going to do.

It sounds like you're kind of like me in this way where it's... I don't understand how people get bored. Like, there are too many things that you want to do. Yes. Like, when someone says, oh, I'm bored, I don't know what to do. What do you mean? Pick something. There's all these things you can do.

Like, go find something. Like, I don't know. Go rock climbing. I don't know? Pick something. There's all these things you can do. Like, go find something. Like, I don't know. Go rock climbing. I don't know. Find something. How are you bored? Like, how do you not have anything to do in your life that you are bored? Like, I get, you know, not having anything crucial that needs to be done. But, like, how are you bored?

Find something. Yeah. And that's, you know, and for a while there, like, I was getting bored. And that's one reason I really started pushing, like, to just find more things to do. And so, you know, now I have too many things to do. Well, there are certainly, like, you know, there are boring things you can do. Like, you know, I'm sure some of the parts of your job you're not super excited about but like that that that's different from just sitting around just doing nothing that's something you need to do because it's like it's just that it's part of your like daily routine

but and you know maybe like you know say you meditate for example like maybe you find that boring but you know it's going to be good for you like there are boring things you can do but being bored i think is a completely different thing absolutely yeah yeah and there's i mean yeah like you said i i just don't i can't understand those people because there are there are so many hobbies out there to choose from or you know so many things to learn so many things to i i just can't find the time yeah well when i came out of uh out of high school like i i sat around for a year doing nothing i said this was gonna be my this was gonna be my gap year i'm gonna like you know do things i didn't do anything i just i just played video games for a year and as much as I enjoy video games and I enjoy anime,

you know, three months, six months in of doing nothing but that, you're like, you know, maybe I need to do something. Maybe. Yeah. For sure. I don't know. I still think you're not. I don't know.

I don't think you're being truthful. I don't think there are any other things, Brody. Well, the problem is when you're playing the same game. Like, you know, I used to be a big RuneScape player. Oh, goodness. Yeah. You know, when you just sit there 10 hours clicking on trees, like, I don't know why I did that.

I played for, like, five years in high school. The problem is when you're in school, you have so much time to do nothing and now that you have no time but you have money you're like i really wish i actually did things that i wanted to do now back then i know i know and it's the same it's the same way for me like it's just like okay now i have now i have this and i'm like okay how can I start adjusting my schedule to work this into it? Man, I wish I would have gotten into this 10, 15 years ago. That would have been amazing. Yep, yep.

Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. Because I've done podcasts before. I've done YouTube before. I wish I had the kind of dedication to it that I do now. I don't have a ton, but like I do end up getting to the point where I've got something going out every week.

I'm trying to think of ideas. Like I wish I would have started focusing on it back then. Cause I mean, like I probably would have some crazy channel at this point, but you know, I didn't and it's okay. It's not a bit to me. It's like,

that's not the end of the world but it's something where it's like i wish i had the focus that i have now yeah yeah yeah there's definitely things that i can still work on when it comes to my focus but i think i've gotten a lot better like as i've i think what's really helped me with that is doing the youtube and actually like setting my own schedule like i know that if i don't if i don't structure my day in a way where i get these tasks done it's just not going to happen like when i was in uni i you know it's just i just did assignments whenever i i stayed up at night i did an assignment then i left an assignment for three weeks didn't touch it but now that i actually have my own deadlines where i know

this is when it needs to be done and i've said it myself early on that was really difficult to do but over the years it's gotten a lot easier and now it's just it's just part of the routine lot easier and now it's just it's just part of the routine yeah and so now i have like every other friday off that i honestly generally dedicate to youtube in some shape form or fashion it may be talking with another creator it may be you know whatever but ultimately like i know that i have that time and like i'm actually right now working on trying to get ahead because for a while there like i was just recording a video every week and editing it and uploading it every week and like right now i'm really trying to focus on getting a bit ahead just so that i don't always feel like okay well i need to i need

to record tonight because then i need to edit tomorrow because yeah that so i'm trying to get a little bit ahead of that yeah that's why i have a backlog now like the podcast backlog is too big it makes talking about topical things really bad. Yes. But the main channel, I've had a backlog for a while there. I have a week backlog. If I just stop recording for a week, I can just upload six videos and it doesn't matter.

It's a nice feeling, for sure. But I don't know. I don't hate... I know some people talk about burnout and things like that. I don't hate the treadmill. There have been points where I felt burnt out but I feel like the burnout in those cases was more about other things happening in my life alongside doing YouTube alongside the things I enjoy as opposed to doing the YouTube itself like you know I was living with people that I really didn't like I had issues with like friends i had issues with family things like that like that's the stuff

that actually made me feel burnout not the thing that i enjoyed itself right and and yeah and i get that like that's and that's the thing i think that some people find it maybe weird when i'm like well what are you doing this weekend? Oh, probably YouTube and probably game development. And they're like, okay. And for me, like, I don't really consider it all that much work. I mean, it's going to take time for sure. And I mean, I don't really like editing, but it gets done. you know it's something where ultimately like I have gotten further into kind of trying to really tweak those ideas and really turn them into something that people want to watch and think

people are going to find interesting you know things like that and it's nice to be able to get the workflow to a point where I can you know because that red uh the red hat video that I recorded last week I literally recorded it that Saturday and edited it that Saturday evening and posted it Sunday morning. I had recorded two other videos the day before, and I was intending on posting one of those. But I'm like, well, this is all still going. So, I mean, I may as well just talk about it. But it was just nice to be able to just, you know, set up what I needed for an outline for a script and just power through it and get it done. And it's just cool to be able to do that.

And I feel the same way with, like, game development stuff right now. Like, I don't really find it to be work. I feel like there, even though it's similar-ish to what I may do in my day job, I feel like it's different enough that it's, you know, it's just a different focus. Well, on that note, I think that's as good a place as any to end off the show we've just passed the two hour mark and

surprisingly our power's not gone out again yes and it hasn't been thundering as much now so I hope we're in the clear for a little bit let's see how it is out here it is very sunny out there go out there afterwards.

I've got to do some shopping. This morning it was like real cloudy and rainy and I didn't expect that. That was too bright. Anyway, let the people know where they can find you and all your stuff. Yeah. So, of course, on YouTube here, Vashinator there. And then Vash has links.com. I have all of my links on that website.

So I have my main site and the shop and all that good stuff. And Twitter, of course, Vashinator7. And I'm generally talking about 100 Days of Code stuff and coding stuff there. I tend to also post some links stuff occasionally. But yeah, the YouTube is Linux open source. Mostly, I think I may talk a little bit of game development as i get further into it but yeah awesome um as for me the main channel is

brody robertson i do linux videos there six ish days a week uh by the time this comes out i don't know what to be out hopefully the red hat drama is over i'm really sick of talking about it but it probably won't be uh i don't know what's coming out, because this is like three weeks away. Maybe I'll upload my video about why Linux defeated Unix. Yeah, maybe I'll upload that one. I don't know. I'll work

it out. And if you want to see me do gaming stuff, that is the gaming channel Brody on Games. Right now, I am playing through Final Fantasy 16. It is very, very good. I highly recommend it. Square Enix, please release the game on things that are not a PS5

so other people can actually play the game. Thank you. Yeah. And also probably playing through Black Mesa. I've never played it before. So that's going to be an interesting experience. Yeah, someone bought the game for me. They're like, play Black Mesa.

Like, sure, at some point. Here's the game. Like, okay, if you're going to buy me the game, I guess I have to play it. And if you're listening to the audio version of this, it is, the video version is on YouTube at Tech Over Tea. If you are watching the video version, you can find the audio version on any podcast platform. There is an RSS feed. Stick it

in your favorite app. I like AntennaPod. It's pretty good. I'll give you the final word. What do you want to say? Yeah, so just enjoy Linux, because to me, that's what Linux is all about. It's figuring out what you enjoy and just go with it.

Awesome. I like the sound of that. So, I'm out.