Tech Over Tea - Open Source Buttplug.io Developer And Teledildonticist | qdot

Episode Date: January 31, 2025

Today we have a wild one, we have the developer of Buttplug.io on the show an open source library for controlling your adult toy and it happens to be written in Rust ==========Support The Channel========== ► Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/brodierobertson ► Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/BrodieRobertsonVideo ► Amazon USA: https://amzn.to/3d5gykF ► Other Methods: https://cointr.ee/brodierobertson ==========Guest Links========== Website: https://buttplug.io/ Github: https://github.com/buttplugio Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/buttplug.engineer ==========Support The Show========== ► Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/brodierobertson ► Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/BrodieRobertsonVideo ► Amazon USA: https://amzn.to/3d5gykF ► Other Methods: https://cointr.ee/brodierobertson =========Video Platforms========== 🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBq5p-xOla8xhnrbhu8AIAg =========Audio Release========= 🎵 RSS: https://anchor.fm/s/149fd51c/podcast/rss 🎵 Apple Podcast:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tech-over-tea/id1501727953 🎵 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3IfFpfzlLo7OPsEnl4gbdM 🎵 Google Podcast: https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy8xNDlmZDUxYy9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw== 🎵 Anchor: https://anchor.fm/tech-over-tea ==========Social Media========== 🎤 Discord:https://discord.gg/PkMRVn9 🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/TechOverTeaShow 📷 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/techovertea/ 🌐 Mastodon:https://mastodon.social/web/accounts/1093345 ==========Credits========== 🎨 Channel Art: All my art has was created by Supercozman https://twitter.com/Supercozman https://www.instagram.com/supercozman_draws/ DISCLOSURE: Wherever possible I use referral links, which means if you click one of the links in this video or description and make a purchase we may receive a small commission or other compensation.

Good morning, good day, and good evening. I'm as always your host Brodie Robertson. This is an episode that I had initially tried to plan, I don't know, two, three years ago, whatever it was. We had DMs back and forth and then, I don't know, DM stuff, someone didn't respond, but we're here now. Welcome to the show. Q dot. Why don't you just explain before we get into like any of the more fun stuff, why don't you just

explain the project that you make? Because I'm sure there's a lot of people who are going to see the title of this episode and think, I don't know what the hell you're talking about. So, episode and think I don't know what the hell you're talking about so so much as you would expect Fox on the internet on a YouTube show about Linux I do weird sex stuff so I am so I am the project lead of buttplug.io. So not only is that the name of the project, it's our website domain. So we produce a software library and a set of applications that allow you to control intimate devices

from your computer. So basically there have been over the past 15 years or so kind of this explosion of sort of haptic devices, sex toys, whatever you want to call them. We're gonna say it eventually. We're past the YouTube. Look, this video is not gonna be monetized. So like, no matter what we do, it's gonna be monetized. I figured we were like past that first minute,

but I just wanted to make sure. So, okay, sex toys. Yeah, so there have been a proliferation ever since like smartphones became smartphones, you could start hooking sex toys up to your phone and control them. So I started this library back in 2017, it's almost eight years old now, because there were more and more toys coming out and there was like no centralized way to control them. You just had to download the manufacturers app and hope you could do what you wanted with that. So what we do is

we go through, we get the toy, we reverse engineer it, find the protocol. Like 95% of these toys are using Bluetooth LE, which is a nightmare. So we make the Bluetooth work on Mac, Linux, Windows, iOS, Android. We also support USB and serial and different network connections and stuff. So basically we take all of the boring parts of this that no one really wants to do or even really think about and get all that done for you so you can get on to hooking whatever game it is you have or whatever movie it is you want to watch to this hardware. At this point, I forgot to check before we came in, but I think we're in the high 500s

of devices support. Wow. There's a list on the website, isn't there? 500s of devices support. Yeah, it's like 500 and 780. There is a, well, so on the BuffBlog website, there's like a tiny list. The big list is at iostindex.com. Sorry, yeah, I meant there was a link on the website. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so that's... 627 it says right now. Oh, that might be everything on the site. Like there's stuff on that site that we do not support. So if you like, yeah, if you filter it for butt plug support, it's still in the 500. So I see this thing near the deprecated. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So these are things that have been either supported in the past. You know, that it exists and it just hasn't been tested and then also things that have been, you know, supported as well. Yes, yes. So, I mean, the main team of the project, there's really two of us.

I am sort of the face of the project as well as all of the shit posting on social media and the core library architecture. And then we have another Devices Dev, who is the person that runs IOST index. And they really do buy all the hardware. Like they have turned this into their own personal Pokemon and they have caught them all. So, I mean, it's just like boxes and boxes, uh, of this stuff. Meanwhile, like I'm trying to pare down at the moment.

I do not need all of these vibrators. I was going to ask if you had to, cause obviously there's the list and things have been tested. If you had to guess how many you personally have, cause you know, like, uh, if, if we have like a firmware developer, right? Like someone developing, you know, some... What is the thing called? Whatever. Let's say you're developing,

you know, you want to support mice in a mouse configuration software, an open source configuration software. You're gonna have a bunch of mice, right? You know, if you're supporting keyboards, if you're like doing anything we need to support a bunch of devices, you're probably gonna buy a bunch of devices or be sent devices by companies that want to have their device be supported. How many? What is the number? So, I mean there's like the devices that I just get and then there's like, I've got a museum of the special ones, like the stuff that I'm never going to be able to buy again,

or for some reason, or like either it, the company went out of business and it's never going to be made again, or it was just a horrible piece of hardware and it should never be made again. But overall, I would say I'm in like the 150 range or so. So it's, I mean, and the problem is like, I mean, you gotta, a lot of these are like really, really tiny, but then you've got things like your machines, like your actual like rotary fucking machines and stuff.

I, four of those, no one on this planet needs four fucking machines and stuff. Four of those! No one on this planet needs four fucking machines unless you're like renting them out or something, which I am not. That is not a business I want to be in. I do not want to clean that when it comes back in. I'm just thinking like the logistics. Logistically, you could probably use three at once. Maybe. Yeah, yeah. It's, I mean, it turns into a very pokey game, a twister. And there's, yeah, it's a time. So if, for the people that think this project is just, like, I don't understand why this exists. Think of it like, Home Assistant for sex toys, right?

Like, all of these toys have their own like, you know, walled garden applications, and this allows you to bridge that gap. Like with the home automation stuff, where you know, you have like the Phillips app, you have all of these different apps, they have different light bulbs and other random stuff. It's basically the same idea, but for sex toys.

I should also say we do have a home assistant plugin. Of course you do. Yeah, so the reason, yeah, not only is this a way to make sure that you can access all of this hardware. So it's like, there is that technical challenge, but there's also a really interesting design challenge around this.

And this is about how do we create a language for touch? Because if you think about it like computers, we're pretty good at video, We're pretty good at audio. We can recreate a lot of things. We can, we can make really realistic looking things or not so realistic looking things. Uh, and we're, and we're pretty good at that, but we've still got like taste. Touch and smell that we haven't really got. Like, I mean, smell tech is still the joke it has been for the past

I know there's base tech tech demos and stuff like that, but it's never really been More than a tech demo. Oh, they're so bad. They're so bad. I've had to deal with multiple smell tech Things that like GDC and sick guy and like, and it's basically like getting maced by your computer. It's not a good time. But Touch, we're kind of like, we're very, very vaguely okay at. We are very good at making things vibrate in different ways. We've had a lot of practice at that through gamepad rumble and now through these new sort of HD

rumble things that we get in like VR controllers and joy cons and dual sense controllers that are using like LRAs or VCA's or something like that. What do those terms mean sorry before we go on? Oh okay sorry so in like the old gamepads from like the 2000s and stuff, those used what we called ERM's, eccentric rotational motors. So you would basically put a weight on the end of the motor and then you spin it around real quick. Right, right.

And that was how we used to make Rumble. Now, we use these mostly things called voice coil actuators, VCA's. So instead of having to spin up a weight, you basically have something that's akin to a speaker or a subwoofer in your controller, that you can actually just play audio buffers through. It moves much faster.

And that's how we get things like that click feeling, like when you're on a modern track pad or something like that, even though there's no mechanical in there. Right. So yeah, they're definitely like the new big thing in haptics, but they're still basically vibro-tactile. Like we don't have much in the way of, for instance, like thermo-haptics.

Like your controller doesn't really get like warmer when you're in like a volcano level or something like that. Like we have to basically break everything down into what can we translate through vibration, which is there's so many more types of touch than that. And that's kind of what buttplug is about is like, let's take this one particular niche of haptics and see what happens if we try to create a language around it. And so far, I would say we have failed spectacularly, but we had to try. The thing about trying to write software for this specific hardware is that there's no standards.

So it's not like a joystick where there's buttons and digital and analog sticks and things like that. Now we've got, well, maybe you've got a vibrator or maybe you've got something to move back and forth or oh, someone made this new thing with like an air bladder in it. And we have to, because the whole idea of the library is like of those 500 and some toys that we develop for, I would say 90% of those are just vibrators. And much like everyone else,

we're good at saying, okay, make this thing vibrate. But it's that other 10% where something like moves back and forth or expands or does something weird. Like I just got a lubrication shooter actually that goes on one of the machines that I have. And now I have to figure out like, how do I add this to our language in a way that will be useful for developers? Um, but like, it's this huge balance that you get in any sort of, um, physical interface device. Like this is why we don't see a lot of like new types of joysticks either.

Because a joystick you would plan to use it with the game, but then you have to develop games to use the joystick, and then you have to like get developers to want to do that. And it's this whole cycle that's just really hard to develop around. So I would say, like while our project's been going for this long, we're like three about to be four versions into our protocol specification which is what lays all this stuff down.

We're still at the early days and we're still learning a lot. Right. You make a good example there about convincing developers to do things. This is a problem that exists with the existence of the DualSense controller and then the Xbox One controller, which structurally hasn't really changed since the original Xbox, really. Yeah, yeah, just, yeah. Like the DualSense is, I'm really a big fan of the DualSense. It is a great controller and games that are

PlayStation 5 first or on PC that have those PS5 features you could do some like crazy things like um FF16 when you open a door the triggers actually like get like it's harder to push them as You open the door further or stellar blade where there's a thing where you're fishing I turned it off because it makes fishing Impossible when you have a fish on the hook the trigger vibrates. It makes it impossible to do fishing mini game But it's really cool Yeah, it's I mean that's the cool thing like you can get that stuff in there

Yeah, it's, I mean, that's the cool thing. Like you can get that stuff in there. But I mean, those are like on like triple A games or first party or first party games or whatever else like I have, I mean, I work on non intimate haptics also. And I like back with all of those boxes of sex toys, I have all of this old haptics hardware that it's it they tried like I have this thing sitting on my desk right now because I'm like trying to donate it to a video game museum called the third space fest it was like a flat I think it came out like 2008 it was like a flak jacket that you wore it had little air bladders in it. So that whenever you were shot in a game, the air bladder would just go poof.

And it would push the air out. So you were actually supposed to be able to feel sort of percussive haptics against yourself. It actually just made you feel like a big roll of bubble wrap that someone was like popping. And they couldn't get any game developers to support it. I've got the Novant Falcon which was a really cool haptic device that came out in the late 2000s, early 2010s.

That was used for feeling actual forces in 3D. Oh, it was so cool. There's a fantastic Half-Life 2 integration for it. So you could actually feel the weight of stuff you were picking up with the gravity gun and whatnot. It was so cool. But it was three hundred dollars.

It took up a good square foot of your deck or like cubic foot of your desk, really. And no one supported it. So they went out of business. I want to say yes, that LGR has a video. Yeah. And I wrote the open source drivers for it. Yeah. I was not aware of these devices.

I know people have talked about wanting to do like, hey, you know, get shot in a video game. You can obviously don't want to feel like you're actually being shot, right? But you want to feel something or like you're, like with the VR boxing stuff, for example, another good example, like you want to notice that you've been hit. The like true end game of that is when you can start doing like grappling. Like that is, no one has any idea

how you'd even begin to approach that problem. Yeah, so instead I have decided to solve grappling of a different kind. One of the things that I do get for free from working with the type of hardware that I do is brain chemistry. The great thing, like that's the thing, like when you're playing a game and the haptics are supposed to go along with it, you want the haptics to match the game. Right. So it's like, if the vibration doesn't match up like while you're riding a horse, you're going to notice that, possibly. But the great thing about working with intimate devices and sex toys and whatever else is,

about working with intimate devices and sex toys and whatever else is, you already kind of got the horny juices flowing when you start using that stuff. Your brain's already awash in dopamine, so we can fudge a lot of the reaction there. It doesn't really need to be one-to-one because it's just something's going on that's kind of matching the scene and people are great with that. So. So what is the actual structure of the project? Like I know the, the buttplug repo has like a bunch of different links out to various other things, but generally just how is it structured?

Okay. So there are a few different layers here. So first off, there is buttplug. Buttplug is the software library. This is the part that developers use in their software. And it's named buttplug because that's the part that's embedded in software. After that though, everything above that we call Interface,

so I-N-T-I-F-A-C-E. So that brand was made specifically because that's all of our user facing applications. That's what we use to actually get on things like the Google Play Store, the Apple Store. We're not going to be able to get in there with a name like ButtPlug. So we had to create something new. So, ButtPlug is the bottom layer. And then on top of that, there's a thing we have called Interface Engine, which is our little command line interface,

which I don't normally talk about. But once again, this is a Linux thing. I can do that. So that's just like no GUI, no nothing. Just run our engine that does all the hardware access, and you can connect software into that. And then on top of that. So you wanted to write a bash script that controlled it

and just did that like you could. Yeah, or it's really popular with people running on headless devices. So they wanted to make just a little Raspberry Pi or something that's sitting there, listening and handling device connection routing. Then on top of that, we have Interface Central, which is our actual GUI. So that's written in Flutter,

runs Mac, Linux, Windows, Android, iOS, all off the same code base. It really is just a very fancy command line argument form for Engine. But we need that because basically we just act as a hardware hub. And then provide a WebSocket-based network access into that. And really the ecosystem is all the stuff

that connects into Engine or Central. And that's kind of where all the fun stuff is. So you also have a bunch of additional stuff outside the project. That's on like the awesome butt plug repo. Yes. So there's a bunch of integrations into various existing software. There's game library integrations, there's different programming language bindings. Yeah, go over a bit of that stuff.

Yeah, so this is really where our community ecosystem comes in. So we have people writing software to do everything for like, I would say the most popular and kind of obvious use for the library within the kind of content domain that we're in is what's called video synchronization. So there is an accidental standard known as fun script, which is basically a JSON file that has commands that go along with certain videos where you might see like, you know, reciprocal back and forth movement. So these fun scripts basically track the movement in those videos and then can replay that movement on some of the hardware that we support. Yeah, fun script came around. I kind of helped put that together actually back in 2017, right?

After we started the project and now it's the Langua Franca of porn sync. Um, and I, and kind of fun side fact, just off on this little rabbit hole. Uh, these days when you see sex toy companies talking about AI integration, this is usually where that happens. Um, the big, um, sort of thrust for AI in, um, sex toys is automatically doing the motion encoding from a video down to fun script, because you want to minimize the encoding time. Doing that human time, there's usually a multiplier, like every one second

of video might take a person multiple seconds or something like that. And they want it to be able to just like, you send a video to this, it's automatically tracked for you. So when you hear major companies talk about, we've got AI integration, that's usually what they mean. Right, I did see a video. I think you might have shared it maybe with someone else. It might have been a while ago, I don't know. I just saw the video yesterday. There was this, there was saying the AI nonsense and there was like a device that was like, you know, going up and down. And they were like, hey, this automatically tracks the video.

It can like, you know, work out what's happening in there. It can be run on top of games as well. So even if the game doesn't have integration, it can detect things happening in that. Yeah. Yeah. There's been a lot of stuff coming out of CES this week where there's been some some interesting devices come out, some interesting claims made. Some of them are true, some of them are not. That's CES for you. I mean, that's just the way this works. So, yeah, so video, so like I said, video synchronization

is huge. Really what ButtPlug is popular for is game mods. Right. And this can be anything from like I wrote a generic mod that we call the game haptics router. That will literally just hook into any game that doesn't have anti-cheat and can send gamepad rumble to a gamepad, and it reroutes the rumble to a toy. So that was just like a general, we'll work with a bunch of things, a piece of software. But we have a bunch of people writing really specific mods.

I mean, the most famous ones are like Ultra Kill and- I was gonna get into that one, yeah. Yeah, Lethal Company, Stardew Valley, Hollow Knight Knight Somewhat like just in the past week. We've gotten both Bellatro and DCS world What is wait what I what is the Bellatro one do I'm kind of is it like when you school I actually just I did a twitch stream on this like the day it came out right now it is just whenever your score is on fire, whenever you get like the above the current levels max and your score catches on fire, your vibrator goes off. But we want to add more stuff to it. Yeah. Yeah. It's silly. Like I never

know where this thing's gonna... Where people are gonna put the library, and honestly, that's what makes it so much fun. Well, yeah, just looking at the list, like there's obviously you have Ultra Kill there, you said, Stardew Valley, Cult of the Lamb, TF2, obviously Skyrim because it's Skyrim, Beat Saber, F2 obviously Skyrim because it's Skyrim Obvious and then there's obviously, you know the kinds of games you would expect it to be and you know

The the adult games where like it is it you know, that's the kind of integration you want Yeah, oh certainly I well, I mean honestly, you know the end to the type of integration I want is the weird shitposts Okay, I I I have much like there's there's a large number of users that want this stuff in, like, Heat and FarmD and 3DX Chat and all of that stuff and, like, Vertimate and whatnot. And I was like, well, that's obvious. That's boring. Who's gonna use that shit? No, no, no.

That's why I'm so happy about like yes. Yes world. Yeah It's like okay like I mean the one that I still want that we just got a request for I want to be on I want to be in war thunder. I So want to be in war thunder. I just so wait about that. Yeah Yeah, just so I can release like unreleased sex toy specs on the war Thunder forums. Yeah. For anyone who doesn't know the context there, there is a very long history of repeated incidences of people. I guess they're in the Air Force. I don't know how they get the documents, um, releasing... basically top secret military specification documents on

various aircraft and tanks and other things. And they're like, hey, here's the spec sheet, add it to the game, they're like, we... No! We can't do that yeah it's just so like that's that that's it's the fun part about this library is like stuff like that happens and it's all like people just well I mean and the latest thing that got us talking was that someone has put in a pull request on a 3DS simulator to add butt plug support to it. I can't say that I think that's the best way

to implement this, but if the developers want to bring it in, hey, it's like more power to them. So. Yeah, for sure sure like once you have something like this out there people are just going to run wild with it obviously you're going to get those normal sensible integrations but like you know game modders game modders just do what they want like you know i play a lot of Marvel rivals right now. Within the first day there was replacing Winter Soldier with CJ, right? Oh, yeah.

Or like, you know, all manner of Squirreble Girl mods. I, like, I have been so sad that they shut down mods so quick. And I mean, I get why they did, certainly. Yeah. But, uh, I, yeah, I didn't have a chance to get my stuff together in there. There is, to my understanding, there's like a workaround, but like that probably kind of TOS. But I yeah, I didn't have a chance to get my stuff together and there is To my understanding there's like a workaround but like that probably kind of TOS and you know, it's yeah It's a multiplayer game. It's a it's a PvP Anti-cheat shooter right like it makes sense and the game already has a bit of a cheating problem anyway, and I can think of some pretty simple ways that you can give yourself a

advantage if you can you know you could just start replacing the uh well the the the map with invisible walls right you know things like that like I get it but you know it it does take some of the fun away yeah yeah absolutely um okay so what actually, wait, did we, oh, right, the language integration, didn't even get to that, the language. Oh, yeah, so our whole protocol, as it were, is really just JSON packets flying back and forth. We don't do a lot of really data dense transfer.

This is not a protocol that is made for closing high-frequency, high-accuracy control loops. Don't control your car's braking system with butt plug. A lot of the hardware that we work with, like, it barely works in the first place. It's like, okay, so there's four vibration levels to this thing and it'll take three commands per second. Oh boy. So we don't really push a ton of data. But the great thing about this is though, so yeah, we just use JSON and then that flies over WebSockets because we wanted to make this accessible to as many platforms as possible.

So not only does like buttplug itself is written in Rust because if the concurrency is going in your butt, it's been a very fun language to work in. I used to be the device interfaces lead on Firefox at Mozilla. So I learned Rust at the mothership. And so, yeah, but yeah, so we started in Rust. Well, actually, we started in JavaScript and C Sharp and then we moved to Rust once Async came in with 136 in 2019. And, but we got, yeah, we got C Sharp, we got JavaScript TypeScript, we've got C++, we've got Python, Haskell. We actually compiled to Wasm.

So the Rust library that does all of our hardware access, I absolutely did this as a stunt hack and now people use it seriously and I'm really regretting that. So all of our hardware access that works in Bluetooth works in a web browser that supports web Bluetooth. So you can run purely in a web browser through our Wasm library.

I just wanted to do it because I was like, I think I can get it done. It'll be funny. Why not? Yeah, Yeah. So we're seeing more language and game integration. They're also super important. So Unity, Unreal, Godot, Twine.

I think we've got a Game Maker one now. So yeah, like really we want to make it as easy as possible for anyone to bring these integrations into their library. And I'm not saying we're like anywhere near finished with that yet. Like there's still a lot of pain points within the library, but we're certainly working on it. And that is our like overall goal though is just make it so that you can do things as easy as possible.

So, okay, you mentioned swapping over to Rust there and every time I talk to someone who does Rust, I've got to ask them because it leads to fun. Look, I get fun comments from it because you have these people who are just insufferable about hating Rust and it's so fun. Oh yeah. Oh, and it's so fun. Oh yeah. Oh, I love them so much. Yeah.

Especially when they have no idea what they're talking about. That's even better. When they're just like, they know developer words, but they're not actually, they have no computer science background. Yep. Yeah. So yeah, I started with Rust around the 0.5 era.

Oh, you're really early then, okay. Well, so, um, me and, uh, Nico, the Rust, like, design lead for many, many years, may still be for all I know. We started at Mozilla on the same day. Um, and because we were both in the research group, I know we started at Mozilla on the same day We were both in the research group. I started he was on rust. I was on firefox OS which at the time was just starting Oh, that was the thing Yeah, yeah, hi first full-time engineer on that one Oh

Side track I did just bring this one up Firefox OS was Mozilla's attempt to compete with Android You probably haven't heard of it for a while because It was abandoned in 2015 It's not no it is still up and running to this day Oh, so it is called KaiOS these days. K-A-I-O-S. Now it doesn't run on smartphones, it runs on what we call feature phones. So there was a company, like since this was Mozilla, of course all of Firefox OS was open sourced. There were, there's a lot of opinions and a lot of events that happened around the project that made it go the way that it did that I'm not going to get into right now because that's another interview

entirely. But someone came through, picked it up and put it on feature phones and now it's in hundreds of millions of phones in India. Wow. Okay. I had no idea about that. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It still exists. There's still some of the original engineers from Firefox OS that moved over and work on that. It's not a Mozilla project anymore. It's a different company now. But yeah.

Wow, I have to dig into that one. I might have to do a video on that. That's actually really cool. Sorry, we got sidetracked. You and Rust. Yes, Rust. You were one of the early people involved in that. Yeah, well, I mean, I was just trying to use it back then.

I had nothing to do with the actual development or anything. I played around with Rust. I played around with Servo as it was being developed. Actually, funny enough, in writing butt plug, when we moved over to Rust, there was no cross-platform Bluetooth LE library in Rust. So I had to take a whole bunch of half-done projects

and kind of smush them together into a project we now called BTLE Plug. So that is now the most popular Bluetooth LE library in Rust. And the Mac... Oh, wait, wait. Didn't you get into it? Wasn't it like someone who was opposed about this? Oh, yeah.

Who was like, I didn't realize that had anything to do with butt plug IO. It got very angry about it. Yeah, we had a PR from someone who was trying to, they were trying to fix a Windows 10 compatibility issue for like an old version of Windows 10. And they did it by like dropping an error. And I was like, can we not do that?

I kind of like my errors. Can we do it this way? And so I like, I just asked for a fix on this PR and the person was like, no, you ran butt plug. I had to look up what butt plug means and I don't like that. And it was one of the more interesting responses I've gotten to a PR fix request, but what can you do?

I mean, like the funny thing about BTLEplug is that I've actually had friends that work in like the defense industry tell me that they've been writing rust for defense and government contracts and you have to actually enumerate like all of the open source projects you use. And they have not been able to use BTL you plug because it sounds too much like butt plug and the government didn't like that. And I was just like, oh, hell yeah. that and I was just like, oh hell yeah. What? I just want to imagine the meeting where the military comes in and is like, nope, you cannot use that library. We cannot have that in a military grant.

I wasn't specifically aiming for pacifism with my naming here, but okay. Considering some of the other dumb military development stories like that, that's not even like the the the top of the eye. Like I've heard You probably probably heard people meme about this one a bunch of times like The missile control system that was built where they um, the missile control system that was built where they left a memory leak in it because the missiles would land before the memory leak caused problems. Oh yeah, yeah, you just need to know where you're going. You don't really have to worry about what's going to happen when you get there. Oh yeah. Oh god. Sorry, I keep getting... Yeah, like, I'm right... I keep getting sidetracked. Sorry about that.

No, it's fine. So, anyways, yeah, so BTLE plug, which is the Bluetooth library we use in buttplug now, the Mac OS Bluetooth core comes from Servo. So, like, there's just, like, all sorts of interplay between, like, my library and what I did at Mozilla and everything else. But at the end of the day, I spent 20-some years writing C++, and I just got sick of finding new ways to shoot myself in the foot with every single spec. I mean, I've also done multiple versions of C. I buy trade, I'm a firmware engineer. And I just got sick of fucking up

and rest lets me do that less. And that's it, that's all. Yeah, I always hear these dumb arguments like, oh, well that's just a skill issue like yeah Yeah, it is. I'd okay It's like I I use these computer things to make my life easier Like and if there's a thing I can do that makes my life easier on the on the make my life easier box I will do that. I don't have time to like prove my shit like in point arithmetic or whatever if you want

to like an example I've been using is let's say you want to like cut a piece of wood would you rather use a tape measure and some machine to cut it or just like eye it and use a hand saw like you can do both you can do great work with either solution people have, but one of them's going to take away a lot of mistakes. Oh yeah, oh yeah, and I mean especially in embedded, like that's kind of like the next frontier that I'm really excited about. Like Rust embedded and that ability to really make sure like you know where your memory is when you can and regulate like

Permissions to like what's right into what pins and went on. Oh, it's fantastic So I yeah, I'm looking forward to making less mistakes and if that makes some people mad They can go fuck themselves, but not with my software. I Was I remember when Rust was first gaining popularity because I was in... I was in university in... 2017? 2016? Something like that. And... Yeah. Something like that. And I have this one friend who was this die hard Rust fan.

I don't remember if 1.0 was out by then. I don't remember exactly where along the timeline it is. But people weren't really talking about Rust like they are today. In the Linux space you see all of these rewrite projects in Rust. It's just the same project written in Rust again. But there's one guy who's like, Rust is great. Rust is awesome. And you know, hey, whatever. And I kind of feel like I don't know if the same thing's going to happen, but I kind of feel like Zig is in that same place today.

Like you have those couple of people who are like, Zig is amazing. Zig is so great. And I feel like in like 10 years from now, you're probably going to see that same level of adoption I I don't know because rust obviously has solved a lot of these problems that you know Weren't really being solved in this way before Maybe it won't happen But I do feel like there is going to be some sort of ecosystem there where Zig is able to thrive as well

And by that point there's gonna be another language that comes along There's always gonna be like, you know The the new language that is the exciting thing that people want to learn like in the 90s that was Java then, you know C-sharp came along and you know things. Yeah JavaScript came along in There's always there's always the new exciting thing. Oh Absolutely. I mean and it's just depends on the domain too like it's Oh, absolutely. I mean, and it just depends on the domain too. Like it's some things that Rust is good for,

there's some things that it's not good for. And there's people that it's like, there's a lot of people that just wanna like get shit done and that's, they end up over and go or whatever else. And there's always going to be, there's always gonna be multiple correct tools for whatever job you're doing and whatever works, it works. I mean, like I, I use Rust for buttplug and a bunch of other stuff, but it's like, I'm still also coding in C sharp or weirdly enough. I mean,

with Flutter I'm doing Dart and it's fine. Um, or which feels really weird coming out of Mozilla after we went out, we went darts so goddamn hard in the early 2010s But that was a different time So like I yeah, I used tons of different languages and that's fine Um, it's just whatever whatever gets stuff done. That's the important part Yeah, there's no point looking at your tools as like a sports team, right? Like you don't have to you don't have to go to bat for like, oh, hey, you know, C++, greatest language ever, C, whatever. Like these different languages, it's, you know, again, let's put it in another context.

Let's say you have a screwdriver and a hammer. Like you're not going to argue which one's better, right? Like they do different jobs and maybe some jobs gonna argue which one's better, right? Like they do different jobs. And maybe some jobs they can do the same thing, right? Like you can secure up, again, you can secure pieces of wood together with a screwdriver or a hammer, but like you don't have to argue which one's better.

Like you could use both of them. Yeah, no, I, yeah, there's, and I mean, and then you get into all sorts of questions of like legacy and everything else too. Cause it's like, yeah, we saw this in, I used to be pretty big in the EMAX community. Um, I mean, I, I wrote a few, I, I'm probably most well known for writing the sex toy control in EMAX. Um, that would be Deldo D E L DL-D-O. So that's that's like, oh my God, that's like 15 years old now.

What is that? Read me six. December 19th, god. Okay. Yeah. 15 years. So that was well before I wrote buttplug. I still need to port but deltoid a buttplug, which is one of those fun phrases I get to say. But even in the Emacs ecosystem, though, it's like, okay, well, we're going to rewrite it in Guile. Now there's a project to, of course, free write Emacs and Rust. All the internal languages of like, I don't want to use the ULISP anymore and everything else. But legacy, everyone is still using ULISP. So it's at the end

of the day, it's like sometimes legacy wins, sometimes new tools win. At any point in the future, all of these new tools are going to be legacy that someone is bitching about. So life goes on. If you would look at the web, that's jQuery, right? Like, you know, jQuery has been around for so long and people, it's not the exciting thing anymore, but there are so many sites.

They're just on jQuery. You know, a lot of different sites, never gonna change. I actually, yeah, I just saw, there was something that was like trending hacker news earlier this week that was all PHP and jQuery, and it was like a new project that the author was really excited about. People were like, really? Like, well, I mean, I guess it works. Yeah, like...

You don't really need it, but... There's co-vol still out in production, right? Like, there's always gonna be these projects that are just... It works, right? Like, it's fine, doesn't need to change. And then you get abominations like node-cobol. I'm sorry, what? Yeah, there's node bindings to cobalt. There's lots of node bindings to cobalt. Okay, sure.

Why not? So just in case you want to combine your JavaScript and your COBOL on your mainframe. Okay. But hey, if you have a COBOL job, like never let them convince you to port it to something else like that they can't they cannot get rid of you there's no there are so few cobalt developers they're making a lot of money

though yeah yeah um but anyways yeah that's like so rust for buttplug it was just it's what i like working in and that's the important part for this library more than anything. You have to enjoy the project you're working on. Yeah, you have to enjoy the project you're working on. You have to be able to trust your tools. And like, we don't have, like, I honestly don't allow a ton of contribution to our core library because this is one of the really weird parts

about running this project. People, multiple people I know have learned programming to use butt plug. And that's cool as hell. Like that, that's like one of the, I feel is the major accomplishments of building this project. So there's like, okay, cool. People have found a way to build something for themselves through this technology.

That's neat. It's when they show up to my Discord and they're like, oh, this project's so cool. I wanna contribute to the library. I've never written Rust before. And it's like, yeah, that's nice. But you realize you're saying you wanna put your hello world

in someone's butt. Right. Like it's, there's this really interesting disconnect. That's one of the major lessons for me from this project of how many people don't understand that like literally all software is physical at the end of the day, the code you write is causing electrons to go somewhere. Um, but in our case, it's causing electrons to go a lot of places that then trigger motors to go places.

Right. And trying to get this idea through that it's like, I, I appreciate you wanting to work on this, but go write some stuff with our library, go learn rust, go learn all that stuff. Come back when you've got some experience. Cause there's, there's kind of some high stakes that happen with this stuff. And I'm not saying we are not, um, we are not bug free.

We are not perfect. Just like any other software project, like hell for the past, there was like eight months of last year where we had a bug with this piece of hardware called the Levin solace. So it is basically a tube that moves back and forth. And there was a certain way that it was being used in VR chat there was a certain way that it was being used in VRChat,

where the stop signal would cause it to move as fast as possible. I see. That was not great. No, no. That was not good at all. And I didn't, I really didn't realize like the severity of the problem. We did get it fixed, it does work fine now.

There was a workaround for it during that time too. But it was just like, even then it's like, oh, that's not good. And that's, I mean, that's also why we limit the types of hardware we support. So in BupLug, like obviously most of its vibrators of different shapes and sizes. Uh, there, or there's what we call strokers, which are things moved back and forth.

There's machines, which are probably the most aggressive of the hardware that we support. Um, and then there's just a bunch of little weird crap in there. Uh, but like, uh, I don't actually support like electrostimulation. So we have a lot of people who are like, but why don't you support shock collars? I would love to have my shock collar. I was just like, oh, well, that's one version of this.

I'll get to the other one. It's like the problem with shock collars though is like, first off, I don't know where you're going to use it. And there are places where, usually when you're buying a shock collar, you're buying it for a me, a dog, like something with like fur on it. And when you put that on bare skin,

that's not what that was spec'd for, and that can be bad. And also people are buying them off of like fucking AliExpress too. Yeah, I was gonna say like what sort of firmware limitations are built into a device like that that you couldn't overspec with your code. No! Like I actually bought one years ago that I was just checking the firmware out on and it's like the stop signal was external you just sent a command and it would shock for 10 seconds or until you would tell it to stop and it was just like that no no um so there are projects you writing the code for that is going to be annoying because you you would have to shock yourself to make sure things are working

no no no no no no no no no no no i no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, But yeah, and the thing is there are butt plug like projects for this stuff. Like there's a project called Open Shock that is like butt plug except for shock art and more power to them. Like I'm not trying to be judgy or just I don't want to write the software for that and then be responsible. You don't want to hurt someone with that. Yeah. Like I get what you're saying about the...

Well, again, with the firmware limitation stuff, right? Like, if you, let's say you have like a wand and that accidentally goes to like 100%. Like, yes, that's a problem, but like, you can stop that very quickly yourself if that happens. But like, you know, if you cause a bug with like a fuck machine, like that can legitimately hurt someone. Like, you know, if you cause a bug with like a fuck machine, like that can legitimately hurt someone. Yes, um, they are usually like all the four machines I have Are usually rated on their motors so that if you back drive it enough

It'll stop so it's there mean, there are still chances for. Well, if it went from like 5% to 100% in an instant, right? Yeah, it would not be fun. It would not be fun. Well, most of these are just like, there's things about how the control schemes and stuff with these motors work too. Most are really stupid. It's just pump more power through it. But even then at like full power, you can still stop it pretty much with your pelvic muscles if you need to. But even so, yes, like that's why I say

like we didn't actually release support for full-on machines until about a year ago. We've had it ready to go for several years, but we needed to put in the feature that allowed you to set the maximum speed. So if you say, if someone tells our library, well, set to 100 percent speed, you need to actually be able to say what 100 percent is. If there's like 20 steps on

that machine and you don't want it to go past 10, then your 100 percent should be 10. And that's what we try to set. And then yeah, we just do a lot of testing on those machines to make sure that it's like, okay, you can't set around that. You can't like go around that or whatever else. Because yeah, we don't want people getting hurt. And it's yeah, and we try to like just keep it fun. So that's, there's other, like it's, yeah, and we try to like, just keep it fun. Um, so that's, there's other, like I said, there's other hardware out there though, that people do want to use. And I'm happy to like on the Easton side, like not only are there shot colors, there

are actually devices that are similar to like 10s units, uh, the things that like you put on like sore muscles and stuff. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. TENS units, the things that like you put on like sore muscles and stuff. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so there are devices, there are eSTEM boxes made specifically for sexual usage of that. They're more well known in sort of the BDSM community and they're usually also used by sort of the older community too.

Like, basically as you age, you get nerve loss. And so being able to directly stimulate those nerves is pleasurable to people that may have had nerve loss. So you do see that stuff around there, but even then it is still sending electrical signals and it's not really something I want to regulate in the same software where people are buying like $10 vibrators off Taobao.

Like it's just, it's too hard to get the spread where people are buying like $10 vibrators off Taobao. Like it's just, it's too hard to get the spread of guarantees across that. So we err on the side of cheap and mass produced but trying not specifically to be too dangerous. Right, you don't want to have a news article written about you where you shocked someone to death. Yes, yes, exactly. I mean, and there's, we've seen that happen anyways, because there was things like the, the QIUI,

the QIUI or the cellmate as it was called in Europe and the US, which was a chastity cage. That was the one that there had been all sorts of rumors and stuff like that. There was like the Bitcoin hacker. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, even before all of that happened, that hardware was a goddamn nightmare. Like it, they didn't, it would actually try to shock you if you removed it, but they didn't handle the materials correctly so it could

cause electrolytic burns on like those parts. Like it was, it was a bad time. And that's yeah, I, that's, that's why I just kind of try to steer clear of all that stuff. People are going to buy it. People are going to use it. They're going to be very successful businesses around it. And I will watch the money fly away over there. So that's what leads into the next thing I want to ask. The scope of the project, because you already mentioned you don't want to

touch those sort of devices. I'm sure there are other things that are like Maybe you'd be interested in but either are too difficult to handle or other things Obviously that could be too dangerous to to mess with you just don't want to keep you don't want to have in the project Yeah, it's Scoping is weird on this. I because We never know what's going to come out. There's no standard for sex toys of like, well, here's these five different things you can do.

And that is sex. Right. So we don't know what people are going to put out like, okay, now here's this new toy that moves on these, like two different axes, but has like six different degrees of freedom this way. So our sort of the toy that I use when I talk about this example

and things that I would like to support, but are difficult is a toy called the SR6. So this is put together by a developer named Tempest, Tempest VR on Patreon. So this is an open source 3D printable toy. It is basically a thing that moves the flesh light around. So you can screw what like, if we go with the unbranded way, it's called an ONA hole.

Flesh lights, the sort of like the US brand that everyone knows, but you can put any latex hole that you get off like Toy Demon or whatnot in this. And it will move it on multiple rotational and translational axes with pressure regulation, heater, lubrication, and it's all 3D printed. So you could just like crank one out on your 3D printer. I'm actually gonna be

building one on my Twitch channel at some point Because I'm yeah on Twitch I Actually do this stuff on Twitch, but it's it's in the guise of Fox movement I have like all these little stuffed foxes that I put on these things and they write around on them and all So and that gets me open. They've got a GIF open. They've got a GIF on their wiki. So, up, down, left, right, forwards, backwards, roll left and right, pitch forwards and backwards, twist. Yeah, I can see why this is difficult. Yeah, so it's like in my library,

I have to scope for both a vibrator with like five speeds and that. And I have to give developers a way to develop for the crappy little vibrator and the thing that does 900 different things and 900 different axes, and then can like shoot lube and make it hot and everything else. And that's really, really hard. And the interesting part is

it's like, I've just taken a niche of a niche of a niche of it. I used to be part of and kind of still am part of this thing called the haptics industry forum, which is a whole bunch of haptics companies. And one of the things, their initiatives was actually defining haptics for the USB HID spec. So that is like the big industry spec of how does stuff communicate through HID? This is like what your operating system deals with.

You talk to mice and keyboards and things like that. And they were trying to define haptics for that. And it's like, how? That's such a huge problem. Like, yeah, you can do like little things like click and rumble and whatnot, but when you define haptics, it's touch, it's touch. There's like, there's friction and there's movement

and there's squeezing and there's temperature. It's like, ah, like that just don't like the scope on that. I couldn't even figure out. So that was part of the reason that like with buttplug, it's like, okay, well, I'll just see how hard a subset of this is. And that's really, really hard. But we're doing what we can.

So in terms of how we scope, we've got some weird devices. Like we support the Nintendo Joy-Con. Yes. By the way, do not put the Joy-Con in your butt. Do not do that. So Vice did an article on this already. Your butt and your whole body, you are basically a bag of meat and water.

Radios hate meat and water. So don't put a radio in your butt, which feels really weird since I run a library called Buttplug all about putting radios in your butt. But ignore that part, don't put a Joy-Con on your butt. But yeah, so we support GamePad Rumble, which is Joy-Con, Xbox, things like that, because everyone has a gamepad,

or everyone can easily get a gamepad. That is just great for... Yeah, and so it's like, if you just wanna know, like what is it like to have a device that would work with our stuff, but you don't wanna go buy one of those devices yet, you can just see what it looks like on a game pad. And we're working on sensors now too.

So, because there are actually toys that have sensors now too. So because there are actually toys that have sensors in them. So when like one of the ones that's being touted at CES this week would be Levenson's Mission 2, which has a it's a vibrator that has depth sensors on it. So okay, no, I think this. Yeah, I think that was also part of that demo where they had the the the mail toy also connected to it. Yes. Yeah, so yeah, there's there's also like toy sync, which has variable levels of working.

But yeah, so there's toys like the mission has like a touch sensor on it There's toys with six accelerometers on them. There's kegel sizers Which are like toys that you can squeeze with a pelvic muscle Those are very popular for people releasing versions of flappy bird for Yeah for. Yes. Yeah. So and so we're gonna actually be integrating more of the sensors in our the next big version of our library because we want people to be able to like you know speed run Elden Ring using nothing but their butt. Like it's that yeah the next dream is uh what GDQ can I be in? GDQ? I actually speak of GDQ. I saw a speed it was a three minute speed run of um big rigs. I saw a speed it was a three minute speedrun of um big rigs

The introduction of the speedrun was longer than the speedrun. Yeah Yeah, GDQ is good this year, yeah So yeah scope Yeah, so we I mean we try to keep it to intimate devices. We could, at the end of the day, we really are a user space HID layer. Much as like you have that core of your operating system that handles mice and keyboards and everything else, we could totally do that, but there's two of us. There's only so much time in the day and that would be way too much.

So we try to keep it scoped to these type of devices. But that's still kind of a squishy area. Because a lot of people are like, but why do you support the JoyCon? And really it's because it rumbles. Like that was our first foray into this HD rumble with VCAs and it has a really nice IMU on it. Like, so you get the, I'm sorry, an inertial measurement unit

and it has an acceleration and an accelerometer and a gyro on it ah, so like being able to use that as a Sensor in butt plug like that might not sound like that would be in scope for us but you like just rubber band one of those things to a flesh light and Suddenly you've got a gesture controller. You could fire guns with that thing,

like in your favorite FPS or something like that. So like that's why I say it's squishy. It's like, if we find something that it's like, okay, that seems like a good idea, then yeah, we'll go ahead and add it. And I mean, also I am not past shit posts either like a Couple weeks ago someone was posting about their Bluetooth Bluetooth enabled air fryer

And so we've been trying to figure out how we would add that to the library Like so you could like maybe like air fry your french fries with porn or something Like that's that's good. That's the kind of thing we do. Mm-hmm. That's that's yeah. You have this kind of power like your cancer If you get it look if we're gonna make everything a smart device Look, you might as well Like I don't like smart fridges. I don't like smart grills, but hey, if it's gonna happen, if you're gonna give me internet connectivity or something or Bluetooth connectivity, might as well. Yeah, yeah, might as well have fun with it.

So I'm sure the way that, even if people didn't know about your project I'm sure most people in the gaming space have probably heard of it because of ultra kill even if they don't know about buttplug.io. Yep. So I and I should like to back way, way up. The way that I got started in all of this, back in 2005, I created this thing called the Sexbox, which was really, I just drilled a couple of holes in an original Xbox controller, took the rumble motors out, wired the motor wires to some jacks and hooked vibrators to that

and created the first rumble based vibration system for passing through rumble to toys. And that made it, that went viral for 2005, which means I got on like boing boing and shit. Um, I may have gotten on slash dot, I think. Uh, yeah. Um, and I ended up taking that and hooking it to, uh, burnout the racing game where you're supposed to crash the car. Uh, and yeah, like, so that became kind of my own little version of J.G.

Ballard's crash. And I showed that at GDC and all. And so we've had like this whole thing of interaction of sex toys and video games has been something I've been doing for 20 years now. So Ultra Kill came along and this was so weird because, so this was just on Twitter back when it was still Twitter. So Joy Shammy was just tweeted something about Lovence and Ultra Kill and I was like, okay I've never heard of this Ultra Kill game. I'll go take a look. Oh, it's unity I can crank a mod for that real quick and so I was like live tweeting like me putting together this mod and Then one of the ultra kill devs Peter

Reached out and was like, you know, we're already building a mod, right? I was like The fuck really for your own game I was like, the fuck? Really? For your own game? Not as it- well, okay, kind of as a joke. Okay, sure, whatever. So I put mine aside and Let Peter release his mod, which I ended up doing some patches on later and Then I found out what Ultra Kill is and more importantly I found out what the ultra kill community is oh My god, um, so those are those of you not familiar with the ultra kill community They're horny

They're really horny. Um, there's a minority of them that are not horny that that are really, really, really mad at the horny ones. For those of you that are not familiar with Ultra Kill the game, it is a boomer shooter that's a whole bunch of other things too. You play a robot that's running through hell that gets its health back by bathing in the blood of the enemies that it shoots and all. It's a fantastic speed running boomer shooter. I really recommend checking it out. It's a great game. But yeah, the community was definitely what drove this. This was a combination of the right mod for the right people, um, releasing it themselves. Like it wasn't like it actually being the people that made the

game really pushing this. Uh, and that that's been one of the biggest things that's happened in the history of the project. That's kind of like, it is now people don't, people talk about. When anyone talks about a butt plug mod. There's two things that'll come up It'll either be oh, they're doing ultra kill again, or oh, they're doing chess again Those are the two things so yeah It's been great though. It's like it's been super fun

I still get pings from the ultra kill community like a couple times a month of someone finally like Like yet another person speedrunning ultra kill with a butt plug and good for you. I'm glad you're fine Like the first the first hundred you said they were cool, but like after that It just cute like yeah, it just the gift that keeps on giving No, I like my understanding is that like people in the community had like joked about a sex update for like a couple of years before that and then yes, that was a long-running joke and now sex update like Ultrakill made that a thing because then Call to the Lamb did the sex update thing, but then they actually had sex-ish in the game.

They had to stay PG-13. That was also, that was when I did my Call to the Lamb mod because I was just like, no, if you're saying you're getting a sex update, God damn it, you're getting a sex update. My Call to the Lamb mod is not good, but it is a sex update. My Call to the Lamb mod is not good, but it is a sex update. That's a really fun game as well. I love Call to the Lamb.

Yeah, no, it was fantastic. Yeah, my mod, it just adds a follower interaction that if you choose it, your vibrator goes off and your follower pukes until you restart the game. I kept planning on going back to it and I have all these people that are like, why did you do this? This isn't fun. I'm like, oh no, just the knowledge that people are using this is very fun for me. I do need to actually go fix that. For me I Do need to actually go fix that

That's I Love the cut this stuff is being built around this. It's it's so cool. I like it's so much fun. Yeah, I like you know, I Will say a lot like people take themselves way too seriously, right? Like this is a project where Like yeah, you got to take something serious. You don't want to hurt someone with, like, some, some weird broken firmware that lets you do things that are way outside what the device should be doing. But outside of that, like, it's just fun. You have to have fun with it. Like, and this is not to say I don't want people doing serious stuff with it. by all means. I mean, like I've gotten wonderful messages from people who are like, your library has

allowed me to like be more intimate in this long distance relationship or it's allowed me to act out things that I can't do because my interests are not physically possible. I mean, I'm once again sitting here in VRChat land of things that are not physically possible. And yes, there are several plugins for my library in here. Oh, no doubt. Yeah, anyways, yeah, it's like there's all sorts of really cool serious potential. I don't want to downplay that, but it is also really fun to just shitpost, have fun with, see what we can add the context to. And we try to do it in a safe way. Anytime someone is asking us, well, it's like, can you add toy support to this massively

multiplayer online game with random lobbies or something like that, we're like, yeah, no, don't do that. Please don't use our stuff in situations where the consensus context is really murky or something. And I mean, the best we can do is just say, please don't. It is open source software. And I'm not going to say we haven't had like our issues in the past too, but we do what we can both to like facilitate the people that want to do stuff for relationships or interest or whatever else, and for just the people that are just like this this 3ds emulator really needs butt plugs

Right like I did see you replied under one of the comments was someone's like I think it was that the AI to it was like Are they doing anything to stop it from? where it was like, um, are they doing anything to stop it from connected, working on videos of people that aren't consenting? It's just like, that's just not a thing that's possible, right? There's, yeah. So there's, oh God. Um, I mean, the biggest problem with the internet is the people on it. Um, this is so way, way, way back. Um, I worked on second life. Um, I was an employee

at Linden lab and yeah, I spent two years as an employee on second life as a cube, no less. That's why there's this little cube right here on my collar. Uh, I was cube Linden. Um, and so I have seen what people do in virtual worlds and I don't ever want to be anywhere near having to manage a user generated content platform again. And a library is sort of a user generated content platform for software, especially the one that I put out. Um, and you take that I put out. And you take what precautions you can. Like you do what you can for what we would call trust and safety or whatever else.

But it's a fraught situation. It's difficult when you just like, you really want to put something out there and you really want to see people use it. But then you can't really go, no, not like that. So, right. And even if you say no, not like that, right. Like some it's open source, somebody else could do it. That's, that's the issue. Like, yeah. And that was like someone, uh, as you said, someone was asking if like one of

the major, uh, sex toy companies, uh, well, pretty much all this is a, a really freaky point you're gonna love. Almost all of the major sex toy companies now put out their own web browser. What? Yes, so it is very popular to rebrand Chromium with your sex toy. And, uh, Love Vents has their own browser. I want to believe I think it's called playmate Or something like the vibe vibe mate. Um, okay So I know magic motion puts one out. I don't know if Kiru puts one out but

yeah, there's like so you basically repackage Chromium, rebrand it, and whenever you see a video element, it will just automatically ship it back to the company for AI processing and stuff. So basically it's a web browser that's supposed to specifically have like access to make it easier to use your sex toy, but it's also a web browser. Like that's like this, one of the central sources of trust on your computer and on the internet.

Do you really want your sex toy manufacturer making that for you? No, you don't. Um, so yeah. Uh, but anyways, that's where that AI question comes in though, is it's like that like that thing is just kind of reaping video and yeah, it's going to pull whatever motions out of it at once and that could get weird. That could get real weird. But that will, there will be some sort of media uproar about it, I'm sure. Oh, for sure.

Especially as these, as these toys get more and more complex, right? Like if we're dealing with just, you know, if you just have like a wand, right? You know, you're entirely in control of what that's used for. But then when you have that piece where the company making the product is partially involved in it,

and then, you know, media outlets find that it can be used with whatever illegal material. You know, yeah. Well, we're also, I mean, we, I would expect this year we're gonna see the first major integrations of sex toys with LLMs. It's already happening in the hobbyist scene, but some sex toy company is finally just going to do the dumb thing and make AI companions that can actually also control your toy, and shit's gonna get weird.

Like shit's gonna get Charlie Stross level weird. Like, it's, I'm not looking forward to it honestly It's but it is inevitable I mean And the thing is and there's also just a bunch of predictions that are just gonna end up wrong Like we spent that time in like 2016 2017 where by 2025 We're all supposed to be having sex with sex robots now, and I don't see no sex robots I was very very pessimistic about that then and I was right

Well, you know depending how you define robot right like you know, it acts actually yeah, I mean cuz Technically, I mean a lot of the toys that we have that we support are kind of sex robots But especially when she gets yeah like the really complex ones, right? Like, you know, if it again if it has six degrees of movement, you know Oh god, yeah, like the SR6 and stuff. Yeah. No, that's a it's a type of robot I mean as much as like a kook arm or anything else It just yeah, like but I mean when people think sex robots they're going for the um AI as in the Kubrick Spielberg type like Jude Law um humanoid like the stuff that

real uh real real I was literally about to bring it up I've got an article open right now about robotics. And they're like, it's not a sex robot. It's for companionship. However, however, we can't, you know. Yeah, yeah. Realbotics is very good at getting PR. Realbotics is very good at getting PR. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

This, like, you know, it's kind of crude today, right? But I don't see any technical limitation they're going to run into anytime soon. Like, where are we going to be in, you know, 10, 15, 20 years? Like, especially with this- The limita- Yeah, it's more more the limitation is less technical and more people Um, like my the major thing that I run into is not so much Well, I mean the the tech sucks. Don't get me wrong. Like almost all every piece of software we have is at I Should really shouldn't call them ask. That's where they go, not what they are.

They're bad, they're just bad. There is no engineering thought put into this. Most of the companies that produce these things don't have engineering teams. They're just outsourcing to a factory or a contract manufacturer and saying, make this thing, and then they just put their brand on it and sell it. But on top of that though, people don't really have good sex education in the first place, like with each other, much less with the complexities

of online relationships and the differences in that are needed in communication and security and everything else around that. And that's going to get way worse before it gets better because the technology keeps moving on, but the education is not catching up. People, I mean, a lot of people are still just finding out that teledildonics exists. Like the term has been around for 35 years now and um, yeah, so tell it a little on X. Um, Is the term that I thought was just a funny word that you used. I didn't know it was an actual no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, that is actually it was a coin by 2000 article in 1990 it's a growth of the term dildonics that Ted Nelson coined in 1976 as part of computer lib dream machines there's your you always

got it yeah so yeah I mean people are still finding out that there are computer controlled sex toys because a lot of people just don't even really know what sex toys are out there. So it's a huge problem of knowing what's out there and then catching up with what the current state of it is, what you can and can't trust, so on and so forth, which is the same with every other. I mean, this is the same issue that people have with social media and misinformation and all that stuff. It's just we even just

Right, like there's a lot of people. Yeah, like I remember when I had to teach my mom how to send an email Yep Yeah, it's and things just keep getting more complicated, but we don't move everyone along with it. Yeah, so It's just gonna continue to be interesting, is the best and most neutral term I can put to it, I think. Well, let's talk a bit about the process of adding device support. The very first thing I wanna get into is device connectivity. What methods are used to connect to a device?

Okay, 98% of the time right now, oh there went my foot. Oh the fun of VR. Okay, so 98% of the time the connectivity is Bluetooth LE and that is because 98% of the time it is assumed these devices will be connected to a smartphone and that is because 98% of the time it is assumed these devices will be connected to a smartphone and that is the only way you can easily connect to a smartphone and a lot of people are gonna be like but what about Wi-Fi? Networks are complicated. Networks are extremely complicated especially when you add a device to a network you don't own. Um, so trying to make sure that your, um, your device and your phone are on the

same subnet are going to be able to see each other and don't even bring MDNS into this, into this conversation. Um, so Bluetooth is just the easiest from, for like sort of peer to peer. Like just a one to one, like phone talks to hardware. And device manufacturers consider that what, like that's mostly what it's going to be. Now, there are devices that talk HID or wired USB or wired serial. Most like, serial is mostly either older devices or DIY

stuff. And that's mostly like, and that is flung over USB. Like I, I have some devices that have DB nine connectors on them. They are no longer produced. But, uh, yeah. And so there's that kind of interconnect. And that's, but mostly it's just Bluetooth these days. It's rare.

Like for every 500 Bluetooth device users, we'll get someone in that's doing serial with, for the OSR 2 or SR 6 or something like that. So. Looking at the list right now, and some of them are saying audio. What is that supposed to mean? Okay, so that means that they have little microphones on them that might just pick up

audio or something. Okay, okay. Reverse engineering devices. So most devices are Bluetooth. How do we actually talk to them? How do we reverse engineer them? Most of the time, we just crack open their Android app and look.

So, like, it's fair use decompilation for interconnectivity, so, and interoperability. We're not interested in cracking anyone's encryption or taking anyone's services down. We just want the protocol and then we're not, we're not interested in cracking anyone's encryption or taking anyone's services down. We just want the protocol and then we're done. Um, so, uh, otherwise though there have been time. Oh, sorry.

I was gonna say regarding the protocols, are the ones doing anything kind of weird with it where it's like, I don't, I'm like, what engineer engineer what psychopath decided to write the protocol like this oh that's that's the norm okay it is very very rare that we will find someone that's like oh that makes sense. Lovin's toys are kind of okay they're just talking strings like you you want to you want a lovin's toy to vibrate you say vibrate colon and a number between zero and 20, semi-colon, and you send it over and you're vibrating. That's it, that's fine. It's just good enough.

But no, there's been some ones where it's just like, here's a random string of bytes. It's not actually encrypted in any way, though we have actually found AES encryption and stuff on some devices. But we're not sure why it's like what did you think you were gonna do? Are they like... I would understand that for like if it's like web connected and you're like you know connecting with a pod I guess that would make sense but like other than that. Yeah it doesn't really make sense. I don't know.

Oh, I mean, people are worried about, like some manufacturers worry about other manufacturers like taking over like how, there's recurring revenue streams that they're trying to protect. Sure, okay, that's. But yeah, so mostly we just crack, I mean, but there's other times where it's like the manufacturer will just go,

here's the spec. Have fun. We love those manufacturers. Like, yeah, no, like there are people that are cool with like what we do. And like they because that's the thing is we present manufacturers with a free ecosystem. If they just want to make a toy and it's supported by us Suddenly they have all of these video players all of these games all they just work with and that's Great for them. Um, it's just not well, not everyone really understands that

We haven't really had any legal trouble or anything with anyone. Like we try to stay out of that. Try not to like, I don't want to get too deep into like the patent law fun. That is the sex toy and computer controlled sex toy industry. It's kind of a nightmare. I mean for one of the reasons that innovation was so stifled was that there was a Tiledel Donox patent in 1997 that we literally had to wait

for it to go up in 2018 for people to not have to license and they were very nasty about the licensing. There was a huge, huge lawsuit in 2015 that took multiple companies with it because Patentroll got a hold of the light the patent right before it went up and started just suing the shit out of everyone It would have sucked. What about that patent cover? Like what was it literally? Vibrators that could be controlled by a computer and

Controlled through the internet. I guess that makes sense why this Influx of in the past couple of years though. Wildly, yeah. And now there's, I mean, well, now there's a patent on cam tipping. So if you are watching a cam model through a site like, um, uh, fansly or chatterbait or something like that, and there's an option to, um, run their toy based on giving them money. That is a patented, um, uh, procedure. So there is only one, there's one, one company that is now licensing

it out, but, uh, that is patented. Yes. So, yeah. Um, that's why we avoid camp tipping. Yeah, um, that's why we avoid cam tipping. Uh, it's, it's like the adult industry has always been wildly litigious. Um, it's something we try to stay out of, um, cause it's also very expensive, but, uh, we still kind of do what we can though. Yeah.

Okay. So when we're looking at supporting a device, let's say we'll start with something that doesn't have their own ecosystem. Let's say just some random, random, I don't know, $20 device, $50 device off of Amazon, some random Chinese manufacturer, no idea what it is. What would you begin with doing to deal with that? Um, so we actually have this happen about once a week on our discord now. There is a new ish Chinese manufacturer called Joy Hub that is putting out tens of devices a month. Our poor device dev can barely keep up with them.

And so we'll just get some person come in and it's like, yeah, I bought this Joy Hub random name string of numbers. And we're like, what the fuck is that? And so we talked to them about, okay, we'll ask them to go get a smartphone application, something like there's smartphone Bluetooth analyzers, like an RF connect, where it just allows you to see like, what Bluetooth devices are advertising, and you can send them packets and stuff, it's kind of nice. So we'll have them use that to pull some data from the device,

and then we'll try to source it ourselves. We'll try to actually get the device ourselves, figure out what app it uses and go from there. So this is why we do crowdfunding and like have Patreons and affiliate sales and stuff. Cause it's like, just trying to like keep up with that is quite the expense. But yeah, like usually most times

we can actually work with most devices that we get. There's only been a few where it's been like, okay, that's encrypted in a weird way. And the manufacturer has been like, there's been a couple of times where it's like the manufacturer has been weird toward us and it's just like, I just don't, it's just, you stay over there. But, uh, but yeah, most times it comes together and either the manufacturer is happy or they just didn't even contact us.

They don't even know we exist. And I was like, oh, whatever. Um, cause I, our major problem our major problem is a lot of our users want the cheapest thing possible. Sure. So like I would say the category king here, like the Google of sex toys is lovins at this point. A lot of people don't really say like,

I have a computer controlled sex toy, I have a teletalonics device, they say, I have a lo controlled sex toy I have a Teletubby device they say I have a love ends yeah yeah you know it's it's that um it's that generic term now it's it's yeah so it is where yeah um you know this place in the US when they call like cola coke right you know because Yeah, or yeah. So that's, but Lovin's devices like start at 80 bucks on the cheap side. And a lot of people can't afford that. So they're like, what can I get for 15 bucks? And that's kind of where a lot of our new stuff comes in now

is it's just like, okay, well someone found this thing for $10 and apparently it's going to work. Once to rabbit hole for like the 97th time on this conversation. Um, one thing that we don't support, that's actually pretty interesting. There's this set of devices, um, that are under the brand of love. Vince or sorry, not love. We definitely support love it. Edit that out, edit that out. Okay.

We definitely support Love It. Edit that out, edit that out. There is a set of devices known as Love Spouse. Love Spouse or Muse. These are Bluetooth devices, but they are very weird in that they, instead of acting as what we call a Bluetooth peripheral, they act as a central. But usually your computer is the central. And when you want to like find a Bluetooth device, you turn your device on and it starts

screaming, Hey, I'm a Bluetooth device. And your computer finds it and you connect to it. This swaps that around, where it acts as a thing that listens for advertisements and it expects your phone or computer to spew advertisements at it that set the vibration speed. So a few months ago, there was a Fliipper zero release that would allow you to control as many of these toys as you want because there's no connection mechanism.

As long as you're throwing advertisements, the toy will react. And the problem is these toys are hyper cheap. You can get them for $10 to $20 on AliExpress. So we've just seen this huge flood of them and we refuse to support them because, well, first off, um, advertisements are, that do require us to implement a whole new Bluetooth peripheral side library with all of the cross-platform and stuff.

I don't, I don't want to, you know, um, but also it's just wildly insecure. It's just like, I mean, anyone can walk by you. You have AES on one side and then literally just responds to anything that sends a packet to it. Yep. Yep. Okay.

It's not good. It's not good. Yeah. It could be easy support if you wanted to, but like. We keep having people go like, here's the sample code. Here's exactly how you do it. And I'm just like, I don't want to. Like there's so many. We our library and our protocol expect a connection mechanism

because when a client disconnects, we wanna know that we can send a stop to the device and everything else. This kind of works outside of that mechanism in ways that I don't, I mean, these are not particularly, once again, like aggressive toys, these aren't machines or anything else.

They're just little vibrators. But even so, that loss of connection context is just, it's freaky. Right, right. So, yeah. Right. Is it because of it like lost access to the device and, you know, it was stuck at whatever? We don't know. Whatever.

Yeah, it'll just be, you know, let's keep going. Yeah. Yeah, I can understand the concern there. That makes a lot of sense. Okay, so when we're talking about, you know, our premier toys, when we're talking about like, Love Ends. When we're talking about, okay, when we have devices that are of, you know, similar capability, we're talking about something that vibrates. Do the different devices in their like device range behave in a similar way with how you would control them or is there just like some wild difference between them for seemingly no reason for the same function?

Is this within brand or within different bands? Okay brand, it's usually the same. So, Lovence has been pretty good about that. I mean, Lovence has actually been kind of wild about that. They actually put out a full-on machine and it reacted to vibrate commands. It's like, that's not vital. I guess that's incredibly low frequency, like long, like push vibration or something.

I don't know. But, but most of their commands look the same. There are other brands, once again, Joy Hub, Magic Motion. I think we have like seven different implementations of their different protocols. Yuru's had like five different protocols. Like, so some of them are fine. Some of them are easy.

Some of them are okay. Well, same brand, but we're going to have to redo it all over again. So Loven's hasn't been too bad though. Um, Kiryu is kind of settled. Um, yeah. So it's, it's sort of a matter of, well, very much depends on the company. I guess it makes sense for Luvents, right? Because they are such a big company, they can afford to actually engineer stuff properly.

Well, and Luvents is one of the few companies that also actually puts out their own SDKs. So they have multiple ways to program for their toys. If you don't want to use ButtPlugin, you just want to access Levin's toys, they have libraries for it. And not only that, that actually happens quite often because they will all, like if you are a software developer and you use their libraries, they will advertise for you on their various forums and whatnot so there is a bit of symbiosis there they I mean with but with butt plug you you'd get our community and whatnot too so there's if they did things weirdly because they had the SDK like it would it's been pretty

easy to Write connectivity for it assuming they're not doing anything like a weird encryption stuff No, no, they they it's all strings. It's all strings flying over what basically looks like a you are it's uh, they're super simple And most other companies just don't put out SDKs like just straight just straight, like, Lalo tried for one of their toys. It was actually a very nicely structured and documented SDK, but the toy was crap. So no one ever used it. So this is, I mean, that's a, this is kind of why Lovence has the brand recognition

that they do, because they, they know that they need to talk to developers. They know that they need to integrate with games and applications and whatnot. While everyone else is just like, okay, we're just going to support video sync on these porn sites. And that's it. That's our recurring revenue. The end.

Right. Um, and we feel like there's a middle ground there between like the companies that won't like talk to anyone, Lovence and because people want different toys than Lovence puts out, but those companies aren't willing to do anything. So we are the middle ground. Yeah.

Well, I guess with them having an SDK, that it makes perfect sense why it make like why their protocol makes sense, right? Because developers want to deal with it. So you're going to want to have sensible things that developers interact with. You don't want them to write some weird arcane string to make things happen.

You want it to be basically JSON. I would say that some of our developers, especially the developers of the client libraries for other program languages, would definitely call some of ButtPlug's stuff arcane. We have some very weird ways of putting things together at times. But yes, Loven's like, and they're very good about, like, they present the ability to control stuff both through web sockets and pure like HTTP rest calls. Like that's something that we don't actually, like that's, I'm working on that right now.

We've had a few people implement rest servers on top of butt plug, but I've always kept it where it's like, no, I want like, I want to make sure we have connections and whatnot, I don't want to deal with tokens, but I'm actually implementing a rest system that will be integrating into interface engine in central so that people don't have to worry about Web Socks if they don't want to, because that's a like, we have a set of developers we can work with who are okay working with libraries and whatnot, but there is sort of a set of developers that's not as experienced or they just want to do something really fast where if we just hand them here's an

HTTP API, just like send this value to this URL and you'll vibrate something that's going to be better for them. And that's something I certainly like kind of learned from like watching how lovin's has developed things and whatnot Yeah, so do you recall the very first device that was added to but plug? That Would be the some of the original lovin's toys like the Nora and Max and the fleshlight launch So there there is on my, um, YouTube channel, I did like a full 50 minute, like, yeah. You can go youtube.buttplug.io. Um, so, uh, that was one of the very first videos I did on that channel too, was like a 45 minute, like breakdown of the flesh light launch.

That's a toy that's no longer available that was made by a combination of fleshlight and Kiryu. They broke up basically. Kiryu now makes a toy called the um, Kion. Yeah, so that's they make a Kion and they now make their own Ona hole and fleshlight went back to making non computerized stuff because they know they can just make latex tubes or silicone tubes forever and make bank off of it. And you know what? More power to them. That's super smart.

If you can avoid technology, then by all means make money some other way. There's always going to be a market for that, right? Like, yeah, obviously there are people that want these application control devices or they want to be able to sync across the internet with another toy but like you know there's always gonna be that market for just the simple toy. So this is this is actually a really interesting point since I'm here in VR chat right now one of the things that I tell people in here is if you you can you can do intimate things in VR chat but make sure you really need to use something

computer-controlled while you're in here because you're in like VR gear and stuff like there's stuff's not easy to wash and And also you have TV strapped to your head too. So it's kind of hard to maneuver and stuff. And then if you add Bluetooth controlled toys to all this, that's fine where it's like, if you just clamp a flashlight to a desk, and especially if you have like full body tracking like I do where it's like I can,

okay, well, I had a cruiser here. So yeah, like I can actually like pick up my legs and all. Then there is something to be said for just clamping a flesh light to a desk and calling it a day. Like you don't need the technology. You just need something that feels good. It doesn't really need to react. And honestly, like if you have a hip tracker, which granted, if you have a hip

tracker, you've already spent like $1,500 on hardware. So you, like, you may actually be poor from that and not be able to afford a computer controlled toy. But just a regular old flashlight will do fine. You don't you don't you may not need all of the crazy fancy stuff. So one thing I didn't want to ask, I maybe should have asked this earlier. If you meet someone who's not aware of what you do, do you even try to explain what you do? It depends on the context.

Like, it's... If I'm standing right next to many, many of my friends who will be like, oh yeah, so this is the butt plug guy. Like that's, I should say first off, it's like, I may not have to explain it. If I am with someone that knows what I do, it is going to be one of the biggest joys in their life to explain it for me while I say nothing, while I just stand there and it's like, yeah, that's me. That is what I do. So I kind of let that happen. And then it really depends on the context. Like I kind of have to be like, if it's an academic context or something, well, it's like, well, I work in effective haptics. Um, because that's

the same realm of things as like hug jackets and like the little friendship bracelets where you can press a button on, Oh, Oh man. Yeah. Hug jackets have been a thing for decades. Um, so there's quite a few different kinds, but the idea is it's like you should be able to give someone a hug remotely. Um, yeah. Um, they, it's a very, when, when we're talking more about like academic affective haptics and whatnot, which is basically like the ability to engage with and cause emotion through a simulated version of touch, of which intimate haptics is a subset. So, like, you can come up with things like that and kind of explain your way down into the gutter.

But yeah, so it's just, it's all about the context, but I, like, I can leave it up there and just say, yes, I work with like effective haptics and hug jackets and, uh, like elicitation of emotion through, um, simulated touch and all that stuff, or I could be like, yeah, it's butt plugs. It's butt plugs. If you're a CES standing next to a sex toy demo. You're like, yeah, I program. Oh, yeah. I go to GDC every year.

And people kind of know what I do there. That one's always really funny. Because I'll go up to some haptic actuator booth, and they're like, who are you? And of course, a person next to me from some big name haptic, and they're like, oh, it's the Bopplock guy. And they're like, oh! Yeah.

So yeah, it's fun. It really is fun. Like I, I'm kind of glad it hasn't gotten old because I think I'm stuck with the title for the rest of my life. I can think of worst titles. It's a fun one. Yeah. It's certainly a conversation starter. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Oh, God. We've covered a lot of things in this episode. This has been a lot of fun. I've really enjoyed this. Yeah, it has been great. I'm glad we finally got together to talk. And yeah, the timing could have been better between like, yeah, the 3DS stuff and now Balletro and yeah, it's, it's starting off to be a good year for buttplug. Uh, we got a lot of stuff coming down the pipeline with our new protocol

and like trying to make life easier with people for like this rest interface and all, so really looking forward to, uh, uh, a year full of more shit posts and maybe a couple of actually useful things. So if people want to find out about the project, get involved in any way, talk about it, where can they go? Where, where, where can people find your stuff? Yeah. Um, so you can find us at buttplug.io.

Um, first off, that's where our's where our library or the library website is. We are on GitHub at github.com slash buttplug.io. You can find our Discord at discord.buttplug.io. I've got a YouTube channel at youtube.buttplug.io and I'm now streaming on Twitch at Twitch dot buttplug dot IO. So there's multiple outlets to find out about the project. Talk to us more and see what's going on. Oh, actually on that note, have you ever had any issues with like YouTube or Twitch with like streaming what you're doing? Weirdly enough, not yet. For YouTube, I have definitely had videos go require age verification.

It's random though. Twitch, I really just started doing Twitch last September and I started out with the name buttplugio, which was amazing. I got so many gift subs because I would go watch someone stream and then someone would see I was on there and they just wanted to force whoever was streaming to say buttplug IO so I would get a gift sub. Unfortunately that got shut down in like a month. So now I'm Q.fm on there because we're still doing that.

That thing of Fox movers, there's a lot of weird rules on Twitch about what you can and can't show. Technically, you can show sexual devices, but only in an educational format, which is what I do. I'm usually on there talking about how pieces of our code work or showing how to make a mod or showing how other mods work.

But the second you start making jokes about it, of our code work or showing how to make a mod or showing how other mods work. But you, the second you start making jokes about it, then it actually becomes apparently against TOS. So it's a fine line to skirt, but that's why we don't really work with sex toys. We work with fox movers. And I've just got that little, my little stuffed fox that sits on things and moves around my desk. That is a great way to get around it. Yeah, yeah. Is there anything else you want to mention or can we start to wrap this up? I think that pretty much covers it. It's been a good couple hours. So yeah.

Awesome. I'll do my outro and then we can sign it off. So my main channel is Brody Robertson. I do Linux videos there six-ish days a week. Check that out. I don't know what's gonna be there by the time this comes out. I've got my gaming channel Brody on games. Right now I'll be playing through Nine Souls,

very fun game. And I don't know what it'll be in the other slot. Maybe my side? I don't know, we'll in the other slot. Maybe my side? I don't know, we'll see. I've not started it yet, but I will be playing it very soon. And I've got the React channel as well. So clips from the stream will go there. That is Brody Robertson reacts.

I've also, oh, also the podcast. If you're listening to the audio version of this, you can find the video version on YouTube at Tech over T. If you'd like to find the audio version, it's on pretty much every podcast platform. Spotify has videos as well, which is cool. There is an RSS feed as well if you prefer that instead. So I will give you the final word.

What do you want to say? I never tell people they're doing this. It's so fun. I love watching them. Well, yeah, go visit, visit.plug.io. I hope everyone finds out, finds something useful or stupid to do with the project. And until next time, keep butt plugging.