Tech Over Tea - The Absolute State Of Linux | The Linux Tube

Episode Date: May 31, 2023

Today we have The Linux Tube on the show, a small Linux content creator who does a lot of distro reviews and other general topics in this area. We met during the DT charity live stream so I thought I'd be fun to bring him on the show to chat some more. ==========Guest Links========== YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thelinuxtube Twitter: https://twitter.com/ThelinuxTube ==========Support The Show========== ► Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/brodierobertson ► Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/BrodieRobertsonVideo ► Amazon USA: https://amzn.to/3d5gykF ► Other Methods: https://cointr.ee/brodierobertson =========Video Platforms========== 🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBq5p-xOla8xhnrbhu8AIAg =========Audio Release========= 🎵 RSS: https://anchor.fm/s/149fd51c/podcast/rss 🎵 Apple Podcast:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tech-over-tea/id1501727953 🎵 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3IfFpfzlLo7OPsEnl4gbdM 🎵 Google Podcast: https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy8xNDlmZDUxYy9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw== 🎵 Anchor: https://anchor.fm/tech-over-tea ==========Social Media========== 🎤 Discord:https://discord.gg/PkMRVn9 🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/TechOverTeaShow 📷 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/techovertea/ 🌐 Mastodon:https://mastodon.social/web/accounts/1093345 ==========Credits========== 🎨 Channel Art: All my art has was created by Supercozman https://twitter.com/Supercozman https://www.instagram.com/supercozman_draws/ DISCLOSURE: Wherever possible I use referral links, which means if you click one of the links in this video or description and make a purchase we may receive a small commission or other compensation.

Good morning, good day, and good evening. Welcome to episode... I want to say 170 of Tech of a T. Probably. Um, anyway, today's guest is the LinuxTube. How's it going? Welcome to the show. Why, thanks for having me on. And it is going quite, quite well today. I didn't have too an awful of a day at work and i got home and i get to hang out with you brother yeah i i woke up about an hour ago so hopefully you know everything goes well my mind actually works um i was saying before like before we started recording that i do feel a bit of a cold coming on so let's hope that doesn't become a problem um we'll see yeah i when i when i had covid i

i took that entire week off i did not record any videos yeah i don't think anybody can i mean covid was no joke when it when i caught it well i've actually i've actually had it six times because during the whole height of the pandemic, uh, I was also, you know, going to shows and performing and stuff like that. So even though we were wearing masks and staying at a distance, I still got exposed somewhere somehow.

So, but during the course of it all, it has damaged part of my lungs. So, you know, so it's, it's, it's,

I got this nasty little cough that happens from time to time sometimes you see me trying to hide it on the video and stuff like that but yeah i know yeah i i when i when i had it i i think the last time i had it was probably about maybe eight months ago nine months ago and i i was out for a week too i think the the the one thing i did that i shouldn't have been doing though i am really stubborn when it comes to getting, like, getting my stuff done. I, I have a schedule. I'm going to work to the schedule. I don't care about anything else.

Uh, I still planned out a week of videos, like, on the first day. And I, I was, like, losing it. I couldn't, I couldn't focus on anything. Somehow managed to make it happen. Um, I don't know how. Those videos made no sense um i i had to like read so i when i do my videos i like jot out the like points i want to hit i had to reorder half that like half my notes when i went to record them because this is just

nonsense and made no sense well that's half my videos anyhow so i guess i must still have covid when you uh when you do videos do you like plan anything out or you just wing it as you go so so no you know what here's here's the thing i do plan out in my head i get things i do write some bullet points but i almost always forget to look at the bullet points and because of my history of performing and stuff i usually do my and i know it's weird but i usually do all my stuff in one shot Right one take Very very little stops and starts Uh, you know, it's really weird

But I do plan out to a degree and I do I want to get a whiteboard I like I I know that's your little whiteboard where you always write, you know Little things on it right there off to your side. Yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly and I want to get a whiteboard like that so i can put my bullet points up to where i could see them instead of like instead of on like an old bill or something like that that i can use like an old piece of paper something that i use sitting around you know write little bullet points and i gotta go like this what am i doing you know what i'm saying so so yeah i do it's a mix you know it's a mix i've actually i didn't buy that whiteboard for like the the videos or anything I've had that for years.

I used to use it. I found it useful when I was doing a remote dev job. I just jot out everything I have to do on the board so I know that I just knock it off as I go. I know there's digital tools for that, but when something's on a separate tab or a separate screen, of like knock it off as i go i know there's like you know digital tools for that but like you know when something's on a separate tab or a separate screen i'm gonna find myself not looking at it with this like i would have it right outside the corner of my vision like okay this is exactly what

i need to do i am too adhd to do separate tabs and that kind of stuff because what will happen is something in between will catch my eye and then i'll go down that rabbit hole yep every time yep you know like last night in my discord server i'm trying to build a a web page right and so i posted in my in my discord hey uh it can somebody give me a good idea on any good tools out there to build web pages right well website and so somebody i think was hip dad he sent me uh he sent me a link or something like that and in between clicking on that link and opening up the web browser and going to look for that somehow i saw something else that took my eyeballs away and then like three hours later i'm like oh yeah i was supposed to be trying to figure out how to build a website yeah this is what happened whenever i um i like reference a tweet in one of my videos

like i'll go check the tweet like oh whoop here's the thing over here what's this oh what's what's this thing that's trending oh to grab my attention don't do the video for like 20 30 minutes and what's really wild is the one twitter's i'm bad on that too because what's really getting me is one is elon musk's tweets i follow his tweets he's comedic as hell in one, is Elon Musk's tweets. I follow his tweets. He's comedic as hell in some of his tweets. He's funny. And then also SerpentOS is posting a lot of stuff. And so I read all the stuff that they're doing and stuff like that.

And so I get lost in that one, too, when I'm trying to research other stuff, too. I'm bad. I'm ADHD. I've heard of SerpentOS. What's that one? I'm bad I'm ADHD I've not heard of SerpentOS what's that one SerpentOS Oh so SerpentOS is The original developer of Solus

Oh okay And when he Left Solus he Decided to go and create SerpentOS And so it's not released yet It hasn't come out yet it's been in the works For months but I'm following Him because And so it's not released yet. It hasn't come out yet. It's been in the works for months.

But I'm following him because what he initially started with Solace was so amazing. You know, it's just crap that the package management fell through. You know what I'm saying? But what he started with actually at the time was very amazing. So I'm expecting to kind of, it's either going to be a huge expectation met or a huge letdown, one of the two, with whatever happens with SerpentOS. Because if he renovates another distro,

that'll be pretty cool. So are they doing their own separate packaging system as well? Or what are they doing? See, that's the thing I don't know. He hasn't mentioned that yet. Yeah, I don't know. He hasn't mentioned that yet. Yeah, I don't know. He hasn't mentioned that. Uh-huh.

But, you know, that was the weak point of not the packaging system, but the repository. The amount of packages they had in the repository. That was the weak point of Solace. So hopefully he learned from that. And he had to take some time off from Serpent because he had to go back and help Solace get back up and running again. You heard what happened with them, right?

Yeah, that was a mess. I'd not been following what was going on behind the scenes prior to everything blowing up. But man, going back and looking at it, there were a lot of signs of things going wrong for a long time. Like packages slowing down updates, servers not getting updated, servers going down. Yeah, we're trying to migrate, but how long does it actually take to migrate your servers? It's not like a six-month process.

Yeah, well, so recently one of the devs made mention that only one person had actual of the the devs uh made mention that they they didn't have the only one person had actual access to the server there was one person with physical access at the university access and and he had to do all the migration so it was dependent on this guy being available who apparently he's got like a complex job that he's busy all the time on so that's what was creating that bottleneck but part of the part of the restructure that they just got done doing was they got more people access to a different server they they moved completely so right right so hopefully that that's helping solace grow even more yeah i like i don't use solace myself i've not had like experience using it but i don't want these like

you know like even though it does have these packaging issues i don't want these, like, you know, even though it does have these packaging issues, I don't want these distros that are doing their own independent thing to go away. But wait, exactly. It's great that Debian's a thing, and there's so much maintenance there. It's great that, like, Arch's a thing. It's great that all of these, like, even though Arch

is a lot smaller than Debian, it's still, like, well maintained. It's great that all these things exist. But it's also neat to see someone trying to do their own thing and just make it work somehow. Yeah, I agree because

how do I put it? That's the innovation of Linux. I mean, seriously, you can cookie-cutter and I'm not knocking guys who make a fork of distro there's a lot of work involved in that as well you know what I'm saying

I said way out of context a while back I said if your distro was basically if your distro could be achieved wait what was it um you don't need a distro fork if your distro could be achieved with an installation script. Yeah, that's what it was. Something like that.

That's awesome. Tech Hut referenced it in a video, and people took it as a serious thing, and I'm just posting something dumb on Twitter. That's awesome. But no, it's true. I'm not dissing those guys in any way shape or form if they do a cookie cutter distro or you know something like that an independent distro is

actual innovation you know it is it is what to me what linux has the greatest capability of doing you can take it anywhere you know you could you could build off of a base kernel and make what you want you know what i mean yeah it takes a lot of a lot a lot of team effort it takes a lot of brain power it takes a lot of time but it can be done and those guys that are doing it like solace or it's just you know even though they're struggling you know that's part of the struggle you know they're not relying on somebody else's hard, you know, even though they're struggling, you know, that's part of the struggle. You know, they're not relying on somebody else's hard work, you know, just to bundle it together and make it happen. You know what I mean? They're literally creating it from, from the ground up and for them to be slower and more methodical to me makes sense and is the best

word. Take your time, get that finished product out there. Stop trying to meet a deadline and just get it good. You know what I mean? I think that is one of the biggest issues with Linux is because you have so many people that are rushing to get out there. They want to be the next latest and greatest thing. That a lot of things are getting overlooked. You know what I mean? And they're putting quantity, so to speak, before quality. I've talked about this a lot with

there's a lot of FOSS projects that like working on these big, shiny, new features. And Hyperland was a great example of this. Hyperland early on was an un i'd actually agree with me here hyperland was an unstable mess but it had a lot of these really cool features that didn't really exist as like a bundle any other whaling compositors it had rounded corners it had transparency blur it had um animations like all animation yeah but if you

ran it it was gonna crash within the next 20 minutes like it it was a mess to use but it looked really cool nowadays vax3 has spent a lot of time working on like ironing out those like those boring things ironing out those crashes ironing out those weird edge cases getting things working like they should be working and nowadays you have something really good i can understand why it's it's it's cool to work on like really exciting things but a lot of projects tend to ignore that fundamental base that is way more important no one's going to care about your software if it doesn't like if, if it's not stable. It doesn't matter how much cool stuff it does.

It's not going to be able to achieve those tasks in a real-world situation. The minute, the average Linux user, whether they're new to Linux user or even, Vets are probably even worse than new to Linux user because the new to Linux user would probably be like, oh, it's my fault, I messed it up You know what I'm saying, somewhere, somehow, because they don't really know

But anyhow, they will Have that bug happen And Literally, if it's Not just right, and it Happens instantly or whatever You can bet they're fucking wiping, they're Nuking and paving, and they're on to the next distro

You know, I mean, that's what I'm talking about. You know, those little bug fixes, those things can actually create a negative taste towards people's, you know, desires towards Linux, you know? More so, less, like I said, and more the seasoned vets that know what's going on, because they're like, oh, this is garbage. And then it gets labeled garbage, the next thing you know, nobody wants to deal with it you know what i'm saying and it's very lucky that that whalen didn't have that in hyperland you know has come along away you know with with baxter he's done so so much work with that it's amazing he's literally he should be on the whalen team with all the stuff that he's actually fixed and caught, from what I

understand, I don't know why they're not paying him, you know what I'm saying? I know there's some people in there that don't particularly like him, but that's a whole separate thing. He's done a lot of really good work getting Hyperland actually solid and actually

good. Right now, I would say I know some of the River people are going to disagree because they really like River, but I think right now Hyperland is probably the best W.O. Root's whaling experience. Probably. I can't think of anything else I would use

in place of it. I'm going to be honest with you. I was going to try it and then I never got a chance to try it yet, so I don't know. Honestly, everything that i've heard has been outstanding you know i mean uh from from from what i've seen too i mean i gotta tell you man i'm i'm i remember back in the old days i don't know how long you've been using linux but i've been using it for a long time and i remember back in the old days, I don't know how long you've been using Linux, but I've been using it for a long time. And I remember back in the old days when we used to use Compiz to get animations, you know, with the magic lamp and all that kind of stuff and the wobbly windows and that stuff.

It's in KWin before KWin did all that stuff. Right. and and honestly i i gotta tell you uh that's the thing that excites me the most about hyperland are those animations that he has you know and the potential of what it's gonna go to hopefully you know i mean it's it's you know it's it's it's in its infancy or i mean at best so to to watch it progress and grow what it once it gets figured out i'm really excited i'm rooting for this cat you know with what he's going to do because that those were the coolest days what i remember when people would come over to my house and i would do the desktop cube i'd just be sitting there with my with my keys doing the arrows and doing the cube and just spinning it around people were like whoa what is that and i'm like that's linux windows

can't do that you know what i'm saying i guess that was windows decorations you know what i'm saying well back then um i don't know what was cool but there was this there was this app you could run like that there was this app you could run that would have like termites crawl around your screen and you could like smack them with a hammer or something i don't know what it other rules code some oh yeah yeah I can't remember the name of that app to you that was like back on XP or something saver game yeah yeah yeah I remember that yeah and then I remember with the floating cow when that first came out the jumping cow for the screensaver people were tripping out on that I don't remember that one oh yeah actually uh xx screensaver is that

the name of the app it actually has it in it it does have it in it ah it's got the bouncing cow I just remembered something about x screensaver I um they should have done what they should have done is they should have made it larry the cow from for gentoo so i i went and looked back at some early stuff about ubuntu because ubuntu's done some like weird things throughout the history this is going to tie back into extreme saver um yeah back in warty warthog um there was so mark shuttleworth had a brilliant idea. It was, it was, it was really dumb. Um, so Mark Shuttleworth was like, hey, so let's include this like tasteful nudity picture as like, I think it was going to be the login screen.

There was going to be one for the calendar and the calendar one was going to like change every month um right it it got a lot of community back like this was before wardy warthog came out this was during like the rcs when it was added you're like why is this here because there was also a bug at the time where if you were upgrading from like the previous rc to the new one and you hadn't set a custom wallpaper which you know most people using ubuntu at that time would be upgrading because you know you're using the rc before it officially released anyone anyone there at that point is like very dedicated to what ubuntu is going to become as a project um right so if you didn't have a wallpaper

set it set the calendar picture as the wallpaper. Then a lot of people suddenly saw it. So some kids, some person's teenagers logging onto the desktop. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, then the mailing list was just full of comments about this. But when there was a discussion about removal,

which eventually did happen because it wasn't there with, you know, when Woody Warhol came out, otherwise everybody would remember that um official release yeah uh there was also brought up some stuff about x screensaver now x screensaver at the time i'll find this one because other distros uh talked about it as well x screensaver screen saver. Here we go. I'll send it to you because it's hilarious. This is the one from the

Fedora, Fedora forums. But it was reported on Gen 2 and reported on a bunch of others as well. Does this one mention it? Ah, here it is. Much to my surprise, I stumbled across it drawing an erect penis.

At the time, there was an option in XScreenSaver called Penis, and Flaccid Penis, and Erect Penis, and it would just draw one on your screen as a screensaver. That is awesome! And the best part about it is it was added without any mention

in the changelog, so it was just suddenly there. So if you had XScreensaver, if you just had XScreensaver set on random, it would just come up at some point. When that happened, a bunch of distros were like, wait, why is this here? And then everyone just patched

it out themselves. I think it was eventually then removed from XScreensaver itself, because every other distro removed it anyway. But like, there are so many weird things like that back in the early history of Linux. You know, the early days of Linux,

oh my god, I don't even know how to put it. I wasn't even know how to put it. I wasn't there at that point. I started using Linux like three or four years ago, so I've just sort of gone back and looked at things in a historical manner where I can see how everything's

played out, but how long have you been using Linux? So I've been using Linux... I can't tell you the exact year or date, but I know it's over 22 years. It was, I remember when Ubuntu came out. Yeah, so yeah, you would have been before Ubuntu and Fedora. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And so the way it happened for me was I was using Windows 95 or 98. Can't remember which one and i bsod'd i bsod'd for like the hundredth time i was running a business and i got so pissed off i grabbed the box and i was taking it to the computer shop and i literally had just gotten it out like a week ago. Right. And I'm taking it to the computer shop and I walk in and I was at that computer shop so frequently with my business computers that they knew me by first name. Like, Hey Alex, what's going on?

You know what I'm saying? That's how freaking I was there. Right. So I walk in and, and the actual owner's son was there and he was sitting on, he was sitting on a, um, on a,

uh, on a corner of a, of a, like a counter or something like that. And he had Linux open and I'm like, what the hell is that? And he says, Oh,

this is Linux. I'm like, wow. He says, yeah, you guys are fighting that whole windows thing. And I'm over here just cruising around, surfing the net and this,

that, and other. I'm like, Oh my God. And I'm like, all right, well, let me me try that and so he put it on my box and it was beyond i mean at that time i was not super i'm self-taught and everything i've not had one class of anything you know what i'm saying so at that time it was super techie and it was a frustration you know like none other do you remember what the distro was at that

point uh the distro was not that many options at that point so it was it was rel it was red hat enterprise okay right that makes sense yeah yeah it was red hat enterprise but i can't remember the actual version whether it was like 1 2 12 or whatever but at any instance it was red hat and it was it was very very very techie because at that time everything i mean there was no literally i think there was only like three or four different you know applications on there or programs on there that actually had a gui everything was all twoy and command line you know what i mean so you had to learn how to how to how to kind of do that in command line right i mean at best i think you couldn't even get sound cards to really work with it

you know what i mean it was it was really it was really trippy so that was my introduction to linux i got through it thrown into the deep end right from like the high dive platform not the regular you know diving board i'm talking like the high dive platform. And so that's the way it worked. And I just watched it evolve. I remember the biggest thing when Fedora came out, the biggest thing was there were GUIs. And some sound cards would actually work. And graphics cards. There used to be a time pretty much so now you can go out and

buy almost any type of piece of hardware throw it in a box and it'll work with linux right there wasn't really a time stuff that doesn't work exactly like you know stream deck and things like that but like yeah general general hardware stuff absolutely general hardware yeah there was a time where even general hardware you literally had to create a shopping list based on what was known to have worked with linux that's how long i've been using linux you know from the old and old days so looking at um at red hat at the time it could have either been enterprise linux or red hat linux because red hat linux red hat at the time it could have either been enterprise linux or red hat linux because red hat linux still existed at the time no it was red hat linux i remember that oh

it was red hat linux not enterprise okay yeah yeah but i just don't know what what distro that what version they were you know iteration they were on you yeah it was definitely near the end of the life of red hat linux so it would have been red hat linux looks if you're given a recent version it would have been seven okay i think that might have been it was i think that's about right i think that's about right yeah yeah seven yeah 7.0.9 or something around that was new at the time yeah somewhere in that yeah yeah i think that's right seven is.2, something like that, yeah. 7.2 is right. It was amazing. And that was the one thing. And that's the, so that's the, what I can say is this, honestly, looking back, accreditation to Canonical, they innovated and created a future single-handedly for Linux. Yeah.

created a future single-handedly for linux yeah because back then the guys at red hat and and and they just didn't you know all those guys that were doing the stuff they didn't they didn't have a they didn't have any inclination to make it easy you know what i'm saying or user-friendly if you knew how to use it great if you didn't they didn't care kind of canonical took a different approach they were like yeah we want to make this available for the world to use you know and i think they literally are you know put linux on the map so to speak yeah looking at a common user looking at it now fedora was a year before ubuntu came out oh yeah a year before yeah i wouldn't be surprised if obviously mark would have had the plan for a while but seeing fedora come out and then a year later doing a bunch i wouldn't be surprised if a lot of what a lot of what abunta

decided to do when they first released was inspired by what fedora wasn't doing yes uh most definitely you know i mean most definitely there there was uh they did they came out i think it was gnome was they're the ones that innovated with Gnome, I think. And I think Fedora had KDE back then. Oh, I didn't realize that. I think. I can't remember. I can't remember what their desktop environment was.

I've always remembered it as KDE for some reason. I don't know why. But at any instance, they were competing as the two giants, behemoths that were always at the battle. They still are. You know, but they were competing, but they were both going along the same lines. But I think Canonical

just paid more attention to the finite details in the beginning. Canonical wasn't as hard on free software they they like wanted to make things actually work right exactly and and so i think like i said single handedly to me i think they're the main reason why linux is even on the map right now well yeah no it makes sense because for a lot of people um linux is ubuntu like that's when they they hear the word linux like they synonymize it absolutely they do they synonymize it as, Linux is Ubuntu. When they hear the word Linux... They synonymize it,

absolutely. They do. They synonymize it as Linux is Ubuntu. In fact, it's still why people still recommend it to Linux users because they've been saying it for how many decades now? Oh, it's Ubuntu.

I remember Ubuntu, I remember they used to flood that you could request and I remember, you know how I got my first distribution's Ubuntu, you know. I remember Ubuntu, I remember they used to flood that you could request. And I remember, you know how I got my first distribution of Ubuntu? I emailed them to send me a disk, and they actually used to mail you a disk for free. Yeah, yeah, they had the ship it disks. Yep, they had the ship it disks, and it was all for free. Okay, here's one of the pictures that uh they actually used this was going to be the login screen picture um that is taking a long

time to send um oh i see it that was going to be the login screen picture they remember that yeah they're gonna use that one for the Shippet art instead. Yeah, and that was because I remember, oh, wow, you just took me back, man. That was instantly reminiscent. I remember when that came out because their biggest claim was they were trying to unify the world. Yeah, the circle of friends. Yep, the circle of friends.

They were trying to unify the world all through Linux, man. And that's what Linux started out to be. And look what it's turned into now. I mean, we've got all of us hanging out in different servers. We're out here creating content. We're collaborating and doing things. That's the one thing that the Linux community has always been good at. We also all tend to agree to disagree on a lot of different things

a lot of infighting at things that don't really matter or things that have already been decided yeah exactly and you know in the end your workflow is your workflow and my workflow is my workflow as long as it works for me who cares right you know and not every

and that's like I look back and you know people say why would you recommend Ubuntu with snaps to anybody, and this, that, and another? And I'm like, you know, some people really don't care how long an application takes to open up. I know it may bug you, but some people don't. They just don't. They're like, okay, you know? It's hard to fathom that, you know? But it's true.

okay, you know, it's hard to fathom that, you know, but it's true. I think people forget to contextualize things around, they contextualize things around Linux, not around operating systems. If you compare what Ubuntu is doing to Windows 11, like, I think I know what a lot of people, like, I've been seeing a lot of people getting, like, really annoyed what Windows 11 is doing. Like, try, like, if you're annoyed, try out Ubuntu. Try out Linux in some form.

Just see how it goes. Like, this is, I think a lot of people out there with, like, who haven't used Linux have these, still have these, like, very old, outdated information about what Linux is nowadays. Like, people still think it's what it's at, like, five, ten years ago, where, you know, it legitimately was a bit of a problem. Like, just gaming, for example. A lot of people still think Proton is this thing where, you know, a lot of games aren't gonna work, it's gonna be really flaky, and yeah, there are some games that are like that,

but most things just work. And the funny thing is is some games work better on on uh proton they do on windows because some of them are made for like windows 7 windows xp and that's what wine's really good at dealing with wine can play those games with no problem no problem at all and it's so funny because that's what so at my work i work with uh a lot of uh millennials and uh whatever the next generation is after them at gen z me or whatever right and so i i work with them and it's really funny because in lunch at lunch you know or whatever they'll come up to me like hey man so you're the linux youtuber cat right i'm like yeah and they're like all right so because i even got people on third shift coming to me like you're the Linux youtuber cat

I'm like yeah, and they're like man. I've been having a problem with this game and this hat and another man How does Linux do with that you know because the Steam Deck has really yeah picked open a lot of doors And so they're like they're all it's funny because they're all synonymizing Steam with Linux now you know what i mean and so like they're you know they're gamer and that's big in the world so they'll come to me and they'll ask me how's that work i'm like it works flawlessly or it doesn't work flawlessly or whatever you know what i'm saying or you got to use this this version of proton what's that and i tell it's compatibility layer and all that stuff and so like it's really their their eyes are opening wide as

to a lot of the games that they're actually being able to play on linux and like actually linux gaming on linux is not a lost cause anymore not like it used to be and and so so i think that is actually helping linux as well and more and more people are starting to consider but there's still those misconceptions that people have about linux like you were talking about earlier, whether it's they've read somewhere or they tried it years ago when it wasn't good. And it's like,

now it's automatically, you know, like the Bible that that's what it is. You know what I'm saying? And it's really, it's really not, you know, but you know,

I've actually, I've converted to Linux. I'd say over at my workplace I would say to one two seven people oh wow that seems pretty good seven people and I recently put

zero Linux on a Legion laptop for one of my bosses and I said I said you are going to do something with this laptop because this laptop is you know 100 bad to the bone and he's like i'm just gonna cruise around on the internet with i'm like i want this thing did are you kidding me are you kidding me i'm like no no no no i said at least you know and i do some games i should play some of these games right here you know what i'm saying like dude i love it when people get these like crazy machines and it's just

a it's just a browser box like what are we doing here like it's your money spend how you want to like come on you you have no idea what you've gotten you you know going here you know what i'm saying it's like i you know but but in the end you know and what was interesting is he hates he hated windows and he's not a computer guy and he comes up to me two weeks later and he says you know that linux is awesome and i'm like okay he says i've never had an operating system where i could literally turn it on, click where I needed to go, and I went there and didn't have to do 12 other clicks to get to something.

He says I could find stuff right away. He says I never once felt like throwing this laptop across the room. Whereas with Windows, every two minutes I wanted to throw the damn thing or punch the screen. Yeah, you know, Windows updates, updates they're fun i love it when windows updates happen when you gotta actually do something hey you want to delay your update

no go away you update now yep or you'll be in the middle of doing something all of a sudden somewhere somehow just decides to start updating and you can't stop it and it's rebooting and you lost everything you just did not not not good man i hate that i like i i like i said i fell in love with linux and it was a steep learning curve all those years ago i can imagine it was definitely a mess doing it back on red hat linux that oh so then there was a time I can't remember what it's called, I think the NDIS wrapper or something like that, for drivers. Like for video cards and stuff, you actually had to go down and almost repackage your own drivers and make a wrapper for it or something like that in order to get it to work. Okay. I'm not kidding, man, it was bad.

I am very happy with the way that AMD is nowadays where you know- Oh my camera is out of focus. Give me a second. No, there's the other camera. What are you doing? There we go, turn that- Oh, oh. Back, and we're gonna come back. Okay, now we're good.

It keeps focusing- I've got my- you've seen my videos that I have my- the monitor in the frame. Sometimes it decides that it wants to focus on that. Oh, yeah, yeah. I actually turn my autofocus off. I gotta tell you something, man. I really enjoy your videos, man. Yeah, thank you. I do. You know, and your level of knowledge is...

fucking amazing, dude. You know, I mean, it seriously is i i'm amazed at some of the stuff you come up with i'm like holy crap this comes from reading lots of mailing lists and lots of four i'm not i this is this information is not coming from the ether it's all out there i'm just spending the time going and actually finding it no you know i'm very impressed with you you're one of my favorite youtubers you and dt and and of course i love matt you know i'm very impressed with you you're one of my favorite youtubers you and dt and and of course i love matt you know i love matt for what he does but more so i love the comedic value from matt and all the mistakes he makes is funny

yeah i i like my videos to be i one thing i've had to work on over the years is trying to streamline them cutting out the bullshit and just focusing on like the main things because my old videos a Lot of them I tend to like repeat the same thing Jump back and forth between topics in ways that don't really make sense I like my I like what I'm doing to sort of flow in a sense away This is how I talk normally for anyone who hasn't like just heard me talking off the cuffs i i have no idea what i'm saying half the time it's just rambling nonsense

i have to be very particular about how i put my videos together otherwise they will make absolutely no sense your mind is like mine then because you'll have one intent thought and then all of a sudden another thought will come by and it'll be like that comes out of your mouth because it's also as pertinent as the first thought. And you want to get them both out. So I understand exactly what you're saying. I've done that so many times. When I'm playing a game on stream, for example, I'm talking about something, having a serious conversation,

then at the corner of my eye I see a chest. Like, oh, chest. Let's go see that. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, I get a lot, like, in some of the,

because I do, like Matt said, I do a lot of distro reviews because I'm doing it for a lot of the new Linux users, and really what it is is they're constantly,

people just ask me to do them. I don't know why I've gotten into that. Yeah, I was going to ask you, like, why you do so many distro reviewsro reviews like what will you actually get out of it like what what the point of them are so the point so i do it to present linux in a positive way to a lot of people to make not like once again going back to that this distro doesn't work for you but it works for for me you know what i'm saying and so i want to present as many distros as i can in a positive way for people and so the reason why i do that and also

it's been lately it's and the ones that i do if you notice a lot of the ones i do are not the common ones they're not like the ubuntu the zubuntus it's like ones you've never heard of you know what i'm saying or independent ones that kind of stuff i want to bring you had nabara in there that's probably like the and obviously ubuntu but like um the bar was probably like the most well-known one out of most of these i can see here yeah yeah so nabara was one of my first ones that i did because it first came on it was when ge actually made it created that's when i did it so it was still new and at the time it wasn't even really known but it you know because of the gaming aspect of it and how it just exploded

you know and so so so i do those for that and it's to help developers get their stuff out there and build up the community and let you know new to linux users do that you know get their choice you know but i i like doing other things. In fact, I'm actually trying to do another totally different off topic from Linux type channel as well. And so, but, but that's why, and lately it's gotten to be where the thing is, is everybody finds these out of the way ones and they send them to me to review because they want to see what my review is going to be like. So that really what i get all the time all the time that's where most of them come

from it's not me going out and finding them it's them sending it to me saying do this you know what i'm saying so it's just what people have monikered me to be i mean there was another youtuber that was doing it but i don't know i don't know where that person was getting their information oh i saw that eyebrow where that where that person's getting their information from in the sense of what you know how if they had subscribers sending it to him or he was just you know picking him out of the ether or whatever and you could seem to only pull the same straws every now and then you know what i'm saying yes yes i think i know who you're talking about yeah i mean i'm not trying to go down that route you know but but at any instance that's you know so for me that's what it is and then of course you get the guy you know like ten lee jay who

gets in there and every video is like this is not a Gentoo video. I don't think I can take this one. This is not good content. Oh, God. Yeah, I had him on the podcast. I think it would have been... Wait. I had him on the podcast last week or something. It has not gone up yet.

Yeah, that was fun. I definitely enjoyed that. But yeah, his content is just nonsense. Whatever definitely enjoyed that. But yeah, his content is just like nonsense. Whatever comes to mind. He's an awesome guy. But I'll tell you, some of the tangents he gets on, it's like, whoa. Whoa. He's a really awesome guy.

Awesome guy. Knowledgeable. Holy cow. You know, like I said, I've been at it a lot longer than a lot of you guys. And you guys' knowledge is amazing. You know, it's just amazing. I don't know if it's because you guys grew up more techie than me and I had to fight for it more. You know what I mean?

Back in my day, the, the, the earliest computer was Commodore 64 and ColecoVision by Adam or Adam by ColecoVision. You know? So, I mean, yeah, I mean, it's just, you know, I, know i yeah i'm blessed i look at it this way i'm blessed to have you guys include me you know what i'm saying that's how i feel you guys are awesome thank you thank you you're awesome as well yeah i think my i didn't have an internet connection until about 2005 or so. Because when I lived in Queensland, we lived in a very rural area. Both my parents grew up on farms.

They didn't care about the internet. They didn't know what the internet was. We didn't have an internet connection. It wasn't until we moved out of that area to South Australia and started living in the suburbs where we actually got a connection um that was was it high speed internet was it dial-up it wasn't dial-up no it was i think i think we had like two down or something so you know high speed relative to to dial up but like not not that great uh it was functional um and australia up until probably like the 2010s had pretty bad internet like as a like residential connection really the best you get at

the time was like 10 down or so so it just and that was if you were lucky i think i had like five down until a couple of years ago really yeah probably until like 2015 2016 something like that um yeah like the internet here has always been an absolute mess uh but yeah i i think i i got interested in computers around the same time as well, though. Because that's when we got... Did we? No. I think we got our first home computer then, like, when I got that connection. But I had used a computer at, like, my friend's house. They had, like...

I think I was running, like, Windows 98 or something. This was well into the lifespan of XP. And then I had a cousin. I had a cousin who was a software engineer and i think he was a big part of the reason i got interested in what i'm doing now um i think he's still doing it now uh but yeah i ever since that point i've been interested in just like at the time i was using windows but i've been generally just interested in tech uh and i've always sort of wanted to do something involved in tech whether that was being a developer

Sis admin what I'm doing now just something in this space Well, that's you know, that's cool. What was your what was your first? So you you recently came into Linux within like four or five years, you said, right? Yeah. So what was your initial distribution that you first used? Arch Linux. That was the first one I daily drove. I had used, because I was in a software engineering degree at the time, I had used Ubuntu and OpenSUSE in a vm because there was like some

classes we had one of the classes we were like learning how like basic linux system management works but like actually daily driving it it would have been arch linux yes arch linux and the i3 Window Manager. Because I was copying Luke Smith at the time. No kidding. Wow. So you went Window Manager right from the get-go. Yeah. And you're still there in Window Manager? Yeah, now I'm on Hyperland.

So Wailing Compositor, but yeah, still Window Manager. So how does OBS work on Hyperland for you? Besides that crash, we sort of start. Besides that, for you uh well besides that crash we saw at the start besides that um so up until about two years ago obs did not work on wayland um like you could run it but it couldn't capture your desktop it couldn't capture wayland windows it was basically unusable um after that point george stavrak has worked on some stuff that's when all all of the desktop portal stuff happened, where we had the video capture portal.

Right. From that point, it's worked fine. Ever since that happened, it's just been good. Hyperland actually does some things better than Sway. Sway has this bug right now where you can't window capture in OBS. You can only capture your desktop. It's been a bug for a while. There's a workaround.

Sway? Yeah, Sway. Hyperland uses a fork of the WRoot's portal and fixes that problem. So it just works. Gotcha. The only issue I've had is occasionally the portals a bit flaky and sometimes it will crash and that might cause OBS to

crash. Besides that it's pretty much good. Nice. Well the reason why I was wondering is because our generation has had grown up with technology in their hand from the beginning and so i always you know that's why when i make my videos and i recommend things i always try to realize who i'm the audience you know like one of the things that performers tell you is no no you know read the room know your audience you know what i'm saying know what you're trying to do. And that's what I tried to do. And so that's why I asked that question because I realized that in communication with lots of people through, you know, my Discord or through, you know, comments on my videos or, you know, just DMs from Facebook and Instagram and, you know, Twitter and all that stuff. That a lot of the people that'm dealing with they're jumping in to like window managers right off the bat and arch linux they're not you know starting off with a

desktop environment you know and and going into that so i mean it just it it blows me away how much more advanced it seems like people are that are coming to lin are. And I think that's what's creating a large positive environment for it and growth. I think that's where a lot of the growth is coming from. I think there's still a lot of people in that, like in that spot where your boss was at, where it's just like, I want something that works,

I don't understand computers. But there is definitely, because there are so many resources nowadays on how to, like, set up Arch and how to get everything working, it's a lot more approachable than it would have been. Like, we can all say, oh, just read the documentation, read the man page, all that stuff, and that's great if that's the kind of person you are, but that's not the way that most people work. People are, correct. Yeah, most people want to have like you know

some sort of guide some sort of like there's a reason why videos are so popular like people can complain about videos all they want but there's a reason why videos are a lot more popular medium than like text-based guides they are so much easier to use yes they might get a bit outdated and yes they are hard to update but when they are like like when they are actually in that span where they're useful they are very useful yeah absolutely and it's really funny because before i became a youtuber i used to go to youtube for that i'd be like oh i how, oh, how do I change this part on this card? Somebody's got to come up with a faster way of doing it. So I would just Google it, and then YouTube it, you know, and look it up. You know what I'm saying?

And so you're absolutely right. I mean, videos are popular for a reason. And I think, like I said, with people making desktop managers, you know, customizing them, setting them up, installing and stuff like that, that it's become so easy that you can just do it in 10 minutes. I mean, even Arch must have gotten a clue somewhere when they created their installer script. Well, the fun thing about Arch,

and people complaining about Arch having the installer, Arch had the installer when it first came out. Like, Arch basically had a 2E installer like Debian had. They got rid of it at some point because it wasn't being maintained properly. But they had one at the start. Yeah. But, I mean, it's just funny how even they went back to that,

you know, instead of doing the whole, you know, command line, doing it one thing at a time, you know? So, I mean, I think, you know, of instead of doing the whole you know command line doing it one one thing at a time you know so i mean i think you know like i said the command line um install is always going to be like the that's the way the the hardcore users are always going to do it because it just gives you more control but as like a a simple install like having it there like having it there is just it does make it easier it's the reason why you's the reason why people sort of shy away from Arch and just go with Endeavor or Manjaro or Garuda because you have the nicer installer.

Right. Well, yeah, and also, you know, it's really funny because when you boil it down and you look at the Linux users, you find that there's only two beasts that you're dealing with okay you've got the full-on give me everything full cup of tea guy and then you've got the minimalist guy somewhere in between you might find somebody that's in between but they're actually more they're not direct center they're

off to one they lean to one side more or other and so that's why i think you always and i think there's more of the maximus you know give me my desktop environment give me this that stuff all these all these apps already you know in here this is what i want because they don't want to take the time to set it up their own way they just want to use it and go you know and so so that's where i like like you were saying you know the you know the bets in in the the more older guys that have already been wild with it they tend to do their own building stuff and that's why the twoies are you know they don't need twoies and stuff like that and then there's the masochists who like building gentoo gentoo is not that difficult it's just time consuming it's about as difficult as installing

arch huh gentoo's about as difficult as installing arch it's just very time consuming yeah yeah yeah yeah absolutely but you know in fact i would surmise that linux or linux from scratch is even harder i i don't know if I'd call Linux from scratch hard. Have you looked much into it? I have looked into it, and I've tried it once or twice, but I didn't get very far with it. Right. And that's why I said to me it was a little bit harder

because, well, I guess, no, they got the same kind of level of documentation. Yeah. The reason I wouldn't say it's hard is because every command you need to run is, like, documented out. it's just a lot of command and a lot of time that's what i mean it seems like it's a lot more whereas well i guess if you build gen 2 the traditional way then you're doing the same amount of command sure but if you do the if you do the the the one where you use

like a disc you know to start it with then then that's a little bit shorter i can't remember what it's called stage three iso i think it's called stage four whatever number it is yeah stage four the stage four no no wait no wait yeah something like that yeah yeah or you could go yeah you could you couldn't suffer through it and just do anything from the start if you really wanted to but don't yeah i'm saying if you want to do it from the beginning the traditional way it's like linux from scratch it's tons of commands line by line by line but if you do the cheating way and kind of do the the the stage four so i don't want to call it cheating because nothing's cheating in the end man if you win the game you win the game

you know what I mean so to me if you do it that way I think that's the more sane way of doing it or you could do like some people just install Redcore or what's it called the other one you know and just install what's already done as an ISO so nowadays

so you started on Red Hat Linux what are you actually using nowadays as your daily driver So nowadays, you started on Red Hat Linux. What are you actually using nowadays, your daily driver? My daily driver, so I'm on Arco Linux B. I really am a fan of Eric Dubois' work, and I use his i3 window manager. I'm getting ready to, what I was going to try was the Hyperland. His Hyperland version.

I haven't tried it yet, but I really like his work. I like the completeness of it. To be honest with you, the.config files, the.files, are pretty much what I put in mine when I've done it in the past. I don't have to carry a library

over of.files. It's pretty complete I don't have to carry a library over, you know, of dot files. You know, it's pretty, pretty complete. When you look at his dot files, they're, they're pretty complete.

You know, he's added stuff in there. You know what I mean? In fact, I'd say he's added a lot of stuff, too much stuff. You know what I'm saying? I mean,

I, you said before about looking up videos to, like, just find things. Speaking of people that you can look up things and find things, Eric has way too many videos on things going on with Arco. Oh, uh... Yeah. He's up to, like, what? 4,000 videos or something like that?

I don't know. I think he puts out a video a day. Yeah, he puts out a video a day. Yeah, he puts out a video a day. No, he puts out like six videos a day. Some days. Is it six videos a day? Some days. Are you serious?

Let's see. Past 24 hours, we've had one, two, three, four, five, six. Yeah, six videos. Wow. Wow. That man just eats, breathes, and sleeps, Arco. Yeah. That's why it'ses and sleeps arco. Yeah That's why it's so complete. I guess it's so thorough. Yeah, yes, sir. I

Mean have you looked at some of his dot files like I know I Go look at his i3 config file Okay, Linux or PSPWM file. Any of them. They're all the same. Arco Linux dash i3. Is this it? Ah, here it is. Okay, yep. Cool.

I found the GitHub. Yeah. Look at that thing. Key definition is to remember. Okay. You're scrolling for days. he's got stuff in there that you don't ever nobody really uses but it's still in there you know what i mean yeah a lot of stuff is just commented out if you want to use it yeah exactly wow yeah exactly there's different iterations of the same command, like your audio settings.

You know, you play CTL or DivaSend. Yeah, yeah. He covers every base in there. Jesus. I mean, it's amazing. I mean, it is single-handedly one of the largest config files I've ever looked at, ever. I was like, wow.

Well, if I need to recommend someone a default config, I might just send them to this from now on. Absolutely. It's guaranteed to cover everything. I mean, he's got everything in there. Everything in there. Does he fix... His bash rc file is the same way. You should check out his bash rc

file. Oh, God. Let's have a look. I can't even... I don't even want to The BashRC file is the same way. You should check out his BashRC file. Oh, God. Let's have a look. I can't even... I don't even want to imagine what the BashRC is going to look like. He's got aliases for everything, man. You should check it out, man.

I think this is it. Wait, no. This is... No, this might be it. Okay, here we go. Yeah, okay. I just started scrolling. Yeah, okay.

Wait, and he's got, like, seven different iterations of the same alias for some of them. Yep. Key fix. Key dash Yep. Key fix. Dash fix. Keys fix. Fix key.

Fix keys. He's even got misspelled, the most common misspelled aliases in there. Misspelling for aliases. Like update without the P in it or something. It's like Udate

or something like that. Oh, he's also got at the bottom where it runs NeoFetch, he's also got at the bottom where it like runs neo fetch he's got like 12 different other tools you can use in place of neo all of them yeah i'm not even i've like looked at a lot of this stuff i've not even heard of some of these what in the world is i'm telling you i'm saying i'm telling you that's what i was saying what is what is what okay sure sure that's what I'm saying.

Seriously, that's one of the reasons why I like Arco, is because he has everything that I would use in there. It's just easy. Just uncommented. You know what I mean? And you're good to go. I'm personally not a fan of having a bunch of aliases that I didn't make myself, just because I don't think

you'll ever remember them. When I set mine up, I get rid of a lot of those. You know, I yank them out. You know what I'm saying? I yank them out and get rid of them. Yeah. But, I mean, it's just... To me, it's easier, instead of typing it all,

just yank it out. You know what I mean? No, that's fair. I get that. When I saw his configs, I'm like, that's what I'm using. That's my template, and then I'm just customizing it to my own. So you said there was a Hyperland version as well,

didn't you? Yeah, I think he's got a Hyperland version as well. You're thinking, hmm, let me check this out. Yeah, no, I want to see what he's done in here. Hyperland desktop. No, I want to see the actual config. I can't find it as easily this time.

No, this is... No, that's the ISO itself. Hyperland config? Is that going to find it? My Hyperland... No, that's someone else's setup. There is a Hyperland ISO. I'm just not sure where the config is.

It will be somewhere on the GitHub. It's got to be somewhere, yeah. I'll see if I can find it afterwards. Yeah, just look you know go do a little deep dive on that later i mean i'm telling you the man is thorough at best man he's thorough and you know it's so like i said you know that's that's what my daily driver is and that's why i use it you know it's easy to set up i just cut out what i don't need and i'm good to go because it's other than that it is what i've always done you know so how did you get from red hat linux to here so where did you actually go after red hat linux because that stopped in 2003

when fedora came out i went to fedora okay right and i jumped to fedora for a while, then I played with Conical for a while, and then I went to PC LOS for a while. And Mandriva. Okay. What's PC LOS? Oh, PC Linux OS. Yeah, PC Linux OS.

PC Linux OS. I used to call it PC LOS, whatever. I did that for a while, then I went to Mandriva. And then I did Debian for a while. Just regular standard Debian. That one I rocked for the longest. Okay.

Because the packages were just phenomenal. Right, right, right. The packages were just phenomenal. I rocked that one for the longest. And then when arch came out i didn't try it at first because to be honest with you i had was working where was i working at i was working at a computer shop right and i was doing a lot of windows work and so uh i was doing a lot of windows work and dealing with a lot of you know microsoft

office and all that kind of crap so i had to have windows at home so i started driving windows for a while there for a period about two years three years and then when i came back then i dove into arch right right and then i just been whatever i could use whatever flavor comes along now you know what i mean so so whatever really what has been, when I get bored of a distro, whatever I've got loaded up onto a pen drive, I just use that. I just use whatever I come across.

You know what I'm saying? Fine. It's different. It's new again. See what's new here. And then my whole world got turned upside down when Ventoy came along. I can have like 12.

I've heard good things about Ventoy. I've not actually used it. People have asked me to do videos on it for God knows how long now. I did a video on it. When did it come out? Oh, it's been, I don't remember when it came out. Mission Release 2020. Oh, it actually is fairly new.

Huh. Yeah. It's the coolest thing in the world. Yeah, give people just a brief explanation of Ventoy if anyone hasn't heard about it. So Ventoy is an application that you download. It's in the repositories or it's in the AUR and also in Pac-Man if you're on Arch.

But you can download it. And what it does is it turns a USB drive, like you take a 60-gig USB drive and it makes it into an actual bootable iso drive where you can literally uh just drag and drop isos as many as you want that'll fill up that hard drive and when you boot into it and you're into your grub it'll you can pick the the usb drive and then it'll give you a gui in there where you can select which iso you want to boot into so it's literally a distro hopper's dream or uh a computer repairman's dream you know software software guy's dream because you can put

an you could and it's not specific to linux only it's actually you can put windows on there anything that's an iso on there an img i think you even you can use uh image files too i should get around it messing with uh vento at some point um straight up it's straight up badass it does look really cool like for me though like i it's not something that i would use in like my my personal usage i'm not much of a distro hopper. I use Arch, and Arch does what I need to do. Yeah. But I can see why if you like...

Actually, when you do your distro reviews, do you do them on hardware or in a VM? I do them in hardware, and I do do them in VM. Okay. It depends on... So, it depends on... Oftentimes, I'll talk to some of the developers and they'll tell me you know i'd rather be done on hardware or whatever uh but

if it's one of the common big big ones you know that i'm doing i'll do it usually in a vm yeah yeah one two fedora that stuff's gonna be fine yeah. Yeah, I do in a VM because pretty much so, somebody's already thrown it on a box, they kind of know. I'm just showing the highlights of what's changed. But when it's something that's an independent or something like that, what I'll do is I have a T40 Lenovo laptop that I'll throw it on, you know, and then what I'll do is I'll port that into my video capture card, and I'll capture it that way, and it's actually done on hardware.

Yep, yep, yep. I mean, to me it's a fair way of doing it, giving a good shake on hardware. Go ahead, go ahead. I was going to say, what are you using to get the video stream? A mirror box capture card.

Oh, okay. Mirror box, I've never heard of that one. Yeah. Mirror box? I've never heard of that one. Yeah. Mirror box capture... Oh, oh, oh! This little bad boy. This little bad boy right here. Yeah, I've not used...

I have heard of this one. Yeah, I just... Yeah, it's a 4K capture card. Huh. That's cool. Yeah, it's got uh hdmi input and usb3 input and then it's got 4k out man pretty sweet little box i think it cost me oops i hit my mic i think it cost me a whopping total of like 80 bucks 90 bucks yeah that'd be a normal for us right now it's uh if anyone wants one it is um 40 off so you can get it for 50 oh see look at that you're already

getting a deal wow this is an old ad it shows xbox 360 game capture oh wow yeah that's old you know if that's anything like amazon that you were looking at yeah yeah probably yeah probably old things but yeah it works flawlessly i actually have two of them because sometimes a gamer tube will come over and we'll do live stuff or whatever and then he'll come over and like he'll use one and i'll use another one to capture some of his screen content or his gameplay. Yeah, that's what I do to get actual on hardware. Right, right, right. Because I'm not going to lie to you, man.

I am not trying. I do have a terabyte NVMe, and I'm not partitioning it. I'm not doing all that crap just because I also have my Steam library on here, I need that space so I'm not wiping and redoing the hard drive every time screw that I'm sorry, you know, not when I can

get it to work that way and still give you a decent review no, that's totally fair I just wasn't sure if you'd do it on hardware or not, because I know D dt has had issues in the past where distro maintainers have gotten bothered with him because he tested something and then it was an absolute mess in a virtual machine it was like a horrible laggy mess and they're just like it's not like this this is not at all what this distro is like just test on a hardware and you'll

see what it's actually like. Well, and that's fair. And that's, and that's a fair point, you know? And that's why, like I said,

a lot of your major ones will, will, will actually do that. You know, they'll work in a VMware, but that's why I tend to do the, like the smaller independent ones. Not that way,

because a lot of them don't have that developmental time to be putting into you know creating the vmware side of it and stuff like that so well usually it should just work it's just a matter of when things go wrong then someone's got to deal with it and yeah what's also what's interesting too which is which blows my mind away is how and maybe it's because i don't 100 understand all of the virtualization aspects of things but how certain distros will work flawlessly in virtual box uh-huh but they will work they will be totally piss poor in vert manager or gnome boxes they're very picky about which

virtualization you're using to run it in it's wild how that works my extent of virtualization is the major distros the fedoras, the ubuntus the gentus of the world so I've not really

dealt with that all of those work fine in virtual box i've not had a problem um but i could imagine there is some oddities with the other ones especially that's what i'm saying there is oddities because i do do that you know and i i do test things in a virtual machine as well you know i've found that to be something that's trippy how and that's why even dt some of you you go back and look at some uh derek's uh older videos if you go back and look at some of his older videos you'll see where he's running virtual box on this one and then he'll be work running vert manager on this one right and i always i i wondered i thought oh maybe he just did it differently whatever it's

probably because something won't work in there and something will work i mean it's it's a trip how that is you know i don't know what it is in the end the best way to do it if you can is just do it on hardware because if it's not gonna run on hardware then like the distro doesn't matter like that's that's a that's a problem from the start yeah well if i can't get it to go on hardware worth of crap then i don't even do the review. Yeah. Yeah. That's fair.

I just don't, you know what I mean? I just don't, you know, I can't tell you how many I probably got about right off hand. I can tell you at least 20. Yeah. 20 distros that were sent to me by users that when I threw it on hardware it was not good at all and i

was like yeah i'm not even doing this review you know what i mean yeah or or it was literally minus branding a clone of something else right right you know i'm like no i'm not gonna do that either you know i mean i'm sorry you know yeah that's. You know what I mean? I'm sorry. You know what I mean? No, that's fair. If you're going to create your own distro, then at least have enough separation between your fork that you're forking from. I will give one exception to that. Rocky Linux, because it's RHEL. Yeah.

That's the one exception where you can be a clone and just remove the branding and it's fine, because that's the whole exception where you can be a clone and just remove the branding and it's fine because that's the whole purpose of you know having rocky linux yes yeah you're right you're correct in that 100 i agree but i mean that i mean that's what i'm looking at and you know another thing that had blown my mind away is how because i went i was like i was in my own world just doing my own thing, concentrating on what videos I'm going to make, like the Pycom one that I did.

I like to do a lot of hardware stuff, too, because I'm a hardware guy. So I'm a paper software guy, I'm a hardware guy. And so doing all these things, right? And so I didn't realize, I knew there were a lot of different distributions of Linux, I didn't realize that there's like six freaking hundred or more that's just the ones that are captured by DistroWatch which are the ones

that are maintained the greatest distribution ever made was a Hannah Montana one that's a pretty good one for anyone who hasn't seen it I'll just show it. Why not? Hannah Montana Linux. Okay, here we go. There we go. Hannah Montana Linux.

Enjoy. Or HML for short. I don't know. Stop it. What is it based on? It's using KDE 4.2. I think it's Ubuntu. Oh, no. It's based on... Yeah, it's based on Ub 4.2 debbie uh oh no it's based on it's just yeah it's based in kubuntu kubuntu yeah this is so stupid it's the greatest it's awesome i love that their web page has basically no styling to it it's yeah no it was it was created i think it as a total joke. And that's why I don't think it even has any maintenance done to it at all.

No, it's KD 4.2, apparently. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, that's the thing. Like I said, I was blown away with how many actual distributions are out there. And then they're growing more and more like uh the kid that brought back unity um i can't think of his name rudra is that his name yeah yeah yeah anyhow he's we're actually working on a whole nother one as well and i and that's it's just awesome. Actually, have you looked at his Twitter bio? Because he lists out all of the projects he works on.

Yeah. I'll see if I can find it. Is that it? Is that his account? Or is that someone else with the same name? No. Okay, this is it. Official Ubuntu member.

Fair enough. Okay. Project lead of Ubuntu Unity, Ubuntu Web, BlendOS, UnityX, Game on Ubuntu, Yuna, Modron, Ubuntu Education, Ubuntu Remixes, LoL, and Skill Systems.

Does this kid have no life? He's the BlendOS developer in case you didn't realize that as well but yeah I know he doesn't have a life I don't know. Wow. Wow. Wow. See, that's the go-getter right there. Yeah, this is someone who's going to be like

when they're in their 20s or 30s is going to be one of these people that everybody knows in the Linux space. Absolutely. And he'll have such a body of work underneath of him that it's just going to be impressive he's almost like he's almost like the linus torvalds of distros you know what i'm saying i mean not i mean that's that's what that's what it's like i know what you're saying like this

guy has got like a lot of stuff he's working on yeah it's amazing i mean and this is when he started doing it it was like 10 years old 12 years old something like that it's crazy it's just and to me you know i'm 53 years old and you know i'm i'm still amazed that i can still edit a config file anymore you know what i'm saying when i was 10 years old i was uh riding a BMX bike and crashing into trees. Yeah, that's about right. I think that's what, in my generation, we did the same thing. And we were playing G.I. Joe. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

G.I. Joe, plastic G.I. Joes. You know, my first computer, my first computer, it was funny. I was thinking about that when you were talking about your internet, your home internet, getting your first computer and stuff. My first computer was Atom by ColecoVision, but my first actual desktop computer

with a monitor and everything else. Because even those computers, like the Commodore 64, you hooked them up to your TV. You know what I'm saying? But the one that came with an actual monitor was a uh in it was intel i think it was intel and it was a 386 uh-huh yeah and then i upgraded to a 486 and then i got the 46 dx2 and then all your games broke because they were tied to the CPU frequency. Yeah. And so, I mean, it was slow at best. I think I might have had 128 megabytes of RAM. And maybe 200 megabytes for a hard drive space.

And I ran Windows 3.1. And then I upgraded to 3.11 for workgroups, which was 13 freaking floppy drives to install that thing with. An install of Windows back then literally took half a day. I never actually experienced installing Windows until... Windows 8, I think. Because up until then, the family computers, like, we just bought new computers. Like, my parents didn't know that you could upgrade Windows.

Like, that wasn't a thing. Yeah, it just came loaded. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, I remember those days. It wasn't until I bought my own PC and had Windows 7 on it Then I upgraded to No, I would have installed 7 then Yeah, I would have installed 7 and then upgraded to 8 Yeah

Ironically, that's the only version of Windows I ever liked Was 7 There is a Not small Not an insignificant number of people That are still using Windows 7 And they refuse to let it go yeah so if you

I'll see if I can find this so Steam announced a while back that they were going to finally drop Windows 7 support and there is a lot of people who were like real angry

it's like 1% of the community 1% of people who were like the backlash on a real anger it's like one percent of the community because there's like one percent of people still use it which is crazy but like there are a lot of people that were really angry about this like how dare you break windows 7 support i bought these games my computer only supports windows 7 it's like yeah okay just like you know it's really funny you mentioned that because we're talking technology and the one thing that that technology does to people is people either love to change and upgrade their technology or they just write it out to the bitter end and most people tend to be the write it out to the bitter end i mean there are people out there the people that are doing the windows 7 thing actually the first

round was windows xp they did the same thing with windows xp there are people in the comments being like hey we did this on windows xp we uh there were people that were that managed to like skip the eol date and like do some stuff to steam to make it still run. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of it has to do with changing your hardware clock.

What they'll do is they'll change their hardware clock back. Yeah. You know, for like, I don't know how many decades back, but they'll change it to back. And then what they'll do is, is they'll set their internet connection to not update the time to the to the operating system so that that way it'll still think it's still live you know what i'm saying

but but yeah no i mean they did that with windows xp it's the same way you know they just wanted to keep it around for it they love their xp and they're just not going to change it you know i get liking it but there comes a point where, like, something goes EOL. And once it's gone EOL, you should not be running it. Like, really. The security risks are tremendous. Yeah, it's one thing if we're talking, like, an air gap system, things like that. Like, that's fine.

But, like, your daily driver, where you're doing your banking and you're doing all of this stuff, you should not. You should not be using something EOL. No. I remember a couple of years back, there was this blog post that came out from Linux Mint, where, I think it was 2021, there was, I think, 30% of their user base that was using a version of Mint that was two years EOL.

Are you kidding me? Their numbers were a bit you know, because you don't have like crazy analytics on Linux, the numbers were a bit flaky, but like, yeah. The numbers were like anywhere from 10% to 30% using two year EOL version of Mint. And it makes sense with Mint, because Mint is

one of those distros that will get installed on people's computers that don't know about Linux. Yeah, exactly. And that's the beginner, that's synonymous with Ubuntu. You know, it's usually Ubuntu Mint that everybody wants. Yeah, because Mint is like, it looks

like Windows. Yeah, like Windows XP. Or Windows 7, actually. Yeah, 7 now, but but used to be xp but at any instance yeah and so they just don't want to update and they're so happy to not be forced to update so they just keep riding it out and that makes sense i get that you know but still that's you know you would think that they would have a way of actually notifying them through like a package, you know,

like no more updates, no more anything. And your stuff gets so antiquated. It doesn't actually work with stuff. I think that back then, a lot of that stuff wasn't really taken seriously. Nowadays, more distros are having things like that,

mentioning like, this is out of date. This needs to be fixed, things like that. But this was still back when a lot of people were very afraid of automatic updates and things like that. Yeah. With the rise of like image-based distros,

like Silverblue and things like that, it's gotten, it's gotten less taboo to have a distro that just automatically updates nowadays. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes,

this is true. And you know, what's funny is to this day sometimes I still struggle with seeing that you have these updates ready you know your pacman like pamac will give you that

little red thing and it's like you got updates ready and I still find myself sometimes trying to gravitate to go to click that and check on them you know what I mean? I don't any icon there I I forgot to upgrade my I don't know last time I updated my system probably like a week or two ago um I should probably do that yeah especially right now um bro yes bro yes dude I love your top grade freaking video oh yeah uh and they yeah top grades a really cool project I think they had like the top grade died video oh yeah uh and they yeah top grade's a really cool project i think they had like the oh yeah top grade died and then there's like a rust fork of it or something

that people are maintaining um uh i think that's what it is that's the one that's in the aur uh it's the one that zero limits uses whatever version that is yeah I think that's the one that's in the AUR. Yeah, TopGrid RS, yeah. Yep. Anyhow, I'm going to tell you right now, man, that thing was freaking phenomenal. That video, I mean, I was like, I saw that and I'm like, what?

And I watched your video. Is that what a title is? I can't remember the title. No, that sounds like a title i would use the so anyhow i i can't remember the name of the title but anyway i was like what and i watched the video and i'm like where has this been all my life i'm like this is fantastic this is totally totally amazing it kind of like it kind of reminds me of you know if they could colorize it a little bit better something like that make it look like kind of like nala because nala is kind of the same way for you know for the app package manager but i mean it was just it was

amazing i was like and i love how it how it separates that like the pac-man like in my instance you know pac-man and then it does aur and then flat packs and you know at the end how it you know categorizes it and separates it all out so you can see exactly what you did dude. That's so cool That was so cool. Yeah, I like finding these really cool projects out there like when I Nowadays I do a lot less videos on software projects early days I did like I would pick anything I'll do a video on anything nowadays I like to focus more on things

that are interesting, that are trying to do something different. Top Grade was absolutely one of those projects. How long ago did I do a video on Top Grade? I don't know. I actually found it on Steve's page because I just did one of his reviews. A year ago? Wow.

That was a while ago. Was it a year ago? I thought it while ago was it a year ago i thought it was longer yeah no i just found that video you know i mean you pop up in my feed every now and then and and you know and i always always check out your videos because i love your content you know i mean i really do and so so i like i i watch your content you know and when you pop up and that was one that popped up. I was like, oh, my God. And then I saw it on Steve's thing.

And you did it, you know, on Steve's. He's got it in his, I don't know if it was the XFCE one or one of those. One of those. He's got it. So when you go to his web, his zerolinux.exe and go to his forums, and you go to the spins, it's in the spin, each spin like the gnome g spin or zero g and zero xfce

it's in there where I saw it, but I was like that is so cool that is a very cool little tool it's definitely like it doesn't like you know software center do that, like, partially with like, Flatpak and

Apt or something? I don't actually use Gnome. But it doesn't do everything. But it doesn't do everything like TopGrid. I think TopGrid's the only one that does everything. Everything. You know, I mean, it's very thorough, and it's nice because I even just aliased it. I just did an alias. everything you know i mean it it's very it's very thorough and it's nice because

i even just aliased it i just did an alias so when i do like like uh uh what is my oh it's um top up top up for top update yeah yeah you know top update top up i just type in top up and boom it just does it you know i'm saying I've not used it in a while. But yeah, I'm happy it's still going well. A lot of the projects, I will do videos on things. Even though I've done videos on all these projects, I don't necessarily keep using them. But I'll definitely check back on them every so often to see how they're going, especially the ones that are actually still going.

Cause there's a lot of things I've done videos on where they'll like, you know, it's, Hey, I made something cool. And then it just dies like a couple of weeks later. And it's just, it goes archived.

Um, right. But when something, everything, when something does actually have a user base and it is filling a need that people have, like, that's cool. I'm happy that people are getting something out of something that they didn't know about before.

That's cool. I mean, that's your Where Are They Now series. You know? Like Solace. You know what I mean? that's a great series i mean you know and and that's you know it's really like i said you know that that's the part that also i love a lot about linux too that you don't get in windows or mac because of the nature of it being open source you have so many people working on so many different things that Linux as an actual ecosystem is growing

so much in every different direction. You know what I mean? No, I know exactly what you mean. You just don't get that kind of community anywhere else. The only issue you have is you will see areas that are then underserved like correct

from my understanding i i audio stuff is still a bit behind where it should be on the windows side um like audio production stuff is still behind where windows is um but it also means you you can get like there okay there is some level of like open windows develop like development done on the windows side that is all open um but it's not the focus like most of the windows software you see is proprietary software but that's there and there is some on the linux side as well but most people just don't accept that as like a reasonable way to design software so right you get a lot more a lot more openness the only the only downside with that is a lot of people find it hard to monetize something when you have it so open which means a lot of developers just

can't put in the money i can't put in the time they otherwise would if they were able to afford doing this on more like a more part-time or full-time basis yeah yeah and that's why we lose so many great developers to windows because they have the money bags and they're like here you know why not get paid for what you're doing you know and and that's why you'll see in a lot of my videos you know and this goes for you this goes for me this goes for anybody who's doing anything to help promote or build up the linux community uh in fact on one of my videos just recently i had a guy say why are you begging for money well it's because all this stuff takes money. You know, and that's historically been a problem for Linux.

You've got so many people putting out this free product out there and everybody's like, oh, it's free. Like they deserve it. You know what I mean? And I'm not saying they don't deserve it. And I'm not trying to come off pretentious but i'm just trying to come out to the point that you take time out of your day to make these videos to bring knowledgeable content to people to make their linux experience better why is it wrong to get paid for that some people see it that way and i don't understand why you know and when you ask for you say hey

could you please help support the channel it's not you're begging but you know like like i explained to the guy in a message i said you know my video camera alone was four hundred dollars okay the led lights that i run what 80 90 bucks whatever the the video capture card was 80 90 bucks let's talk about the four thousand dollar pc i use okay what about the four hundred dollar monitor i have you know all that costs money you know that i use to make these videos to do these things you know and so so why people have a hard time with that i don't know and i think developers need to get paid that's why you know uh i've had a couple developers ask me about putting stuff behind kind of a paywall and i'm like do it i

think the only issue with the paywall is that is that is going to scare a lot of people away i think obviously donations are the the best thing for the user it's just a matter of how do you how do you get people to use your software while also still getting let me clarify the let me let me clarify the paywall what i meant by paywall sure okay so by the paywall if you want like the perfect example of that is how zero linux is doing it uh-huh what he's doing is if you want the already built ISO, just donate. He doesn't have a set price. Just donate.

At least I don't think he has a set price. I don't know. But anyhow, just donate. But if you want to build it for yourself, then you can build it for yourself. And here is how to do it. You can go right to the page, you can download what you need to it and run the script.

He gives you the commands to put in the command line to build it. You're the ISO yourself and it's free. That's what I mean. Offer the free way of getting it, but put, you know, like the, the,

what most people were going to want to do in a, in a way to be able to get some money from it i don't see anything wrong with that i don't see anything wrong with it's just a matter of how the the reaction you're going to get and whether whether you can actually get people to to use a project like that if that's how you start it it's one thing if you change to that model later on once you've already got some sort of base around you. Of course you want to... No, no, no.

It's like a new... Well, a perfect example is cars. Right. Okay? When a new model of car comes out, or a new brand of car with a new model of car, when they come out, those cars are in the fifteen thousand dollar budget range right

they're new they're introductory you know level right for people to get introduced to the company so they put them out there in a way that you know you can get the base model and drive it around in a very affordable range to get you to like the thing then what they do is they start building the coupes and the the sports car you know models, you know, and the SUV models or whatever. You know, I'm saying that the branding comes later. And that's exactly what you do with your project that you're doing that stuff. That's fair. No, I get what you're saying.

Approach that same model. You know, approach that same model. Start off giving your stuff out, you know, in the beginning for free. But if you feel like putting it behind a paywall, you shouldn't feel guilty about it is what i'm saying no no i i do get that that makes sense um i've definitely noticed a lot of people in the the foss world you know we all talk about you know free software doesn't mean free as in beer it means free as in freedom but there's a lot of people that do sort of act like it does mean free as in beer as well and they do yeah you see this if you go to any any issue tracker there's going to be a lot of people in there that feel very entitled

about a issue not being dealt with in a timely manner like you'll be like ah why is this not done who is working on this get can i get an update on this like no go away work on it yourself i get why developers say that um yeah but i i think a lot of developers are really bad at communicating like why something is the case people that are angry are not gonna just accept oh go work on it yourself i do wish a lot of developers sort of gave you know gave a better explanation on why something is the case rather than just trying to send someone away uh i know that a lot of devs are very busy but it would deal with a lot of the a lot of the concerns that people have if they would just better it explain what's going on it would definitely mitigate a lot of that that anger and that that misunderstanding and and and you know like dt said dt i was talking to dt one time and he told me

he said if you come to linux to do any like linux content software whatever he says to make money so you came to the wrong place yeah yeah you came to the wrong place you go do windows videos because people are used to paying you know it's just really fun it's just funny when he said that it's like yeah no kidding because it's true you know they they look at us and like you said free beer and it's i don't know i don't know why it's gotten to that expectation but it has and i think that we should all definitely work to promote especially for the devs because i mean a lot of these people like i know a dev like one lives right here by me actually and this dev is taking time away from his family to maintain things.

There's two-person OS that he maintains, you know what I'm saying? Just him and one other cat. And hours and hours and hours and hours on this stuff, and he's away from his family, you know what I mean? If you were doing that for your job, you know, and people were enjoying it, you know, you would be asking the same question, why can't I get a little compensation?

Yeah, no no i get that absolutely makes sense yeah um you know no i no i fully agree i i'm sure there's gonna be someone that disagrees in the comment section but i i can't wait i cannot wait to hear the comments on that but um speaking of distros uh did you see that a bunch of cinnamon is now like a thing that's actually like official official flavor yeah i think i think what's happened is this is just me spitballing a corporation is a conglomerate right it requires it requires your product when you think about it in a marketing aspect right because it goes up for marketing obviously it's on the business side

because it's ubuntu and it's like huge in the server business right but part of the thing is marketability, right? And marketability is dependent in tantamount on acceptability. Right. Right? That being said, when they tried to do their thing with forcing all their subsets to use snaps, that created a huge distaste in people's mouth for ubuntu and marketability and acceptability started to falter so the only way they could do now is to start grabbing all these other and retract the whole snapd thing like they did and now start grabbing and making all these other flavors to try to put more well cinnamon already existed as a cinnamon already existed as like an unofficial flavor it's an unofficial flavor i'm saying to make it official now is what they're trying to

in a way they're trying to it's kind of like a rebranding without rebranding makes sense right no i get what you're saying and i i think that's kind of what they're doing and also it could also be because cinnamon and like the the the the unity the cinnamon mint also mint moving more so to debian than ubuntu i think it's kind of it's kind of i mean they're still doing their ubuntu flavor but it's kind of like showing a shift in people's use of Ubuntu. They're not using the official. So why not adopt the unofficial and make it official so that they keep their numbers up? You know what I mean? And a marketability size.

Because when you're looking at that, you're looking in a corporate corporate world you're looking at bottom lines downloads and usability count towards bottom line does that make sense no no that makes sense and so if you got mint that's outperforming the debbie mint it's outperforming this you're going to want to craft another one that's performing like cinnamon and and pick that up because you know they were an unofficial make that that all counts more for you in a corporate you know spreadsheet world nothing changed other than the officialness of it right huh i mean i i think like i said that's just spitball yeah no that makes sense for anyone yeah anyone just listening like that's that's like not 100 certain that's what happened but like

yeah i i can see i can see where you're coming from with that definitely um because there's a lot of people that aren't that aren't really happy with the direction that ubuntu is going with especially snaps snaps is like the big one where it would be one thing if snaps were just you know they aren't really happy with the direction that Ubuntu is going with, especially Snaps. Snaps is like the big one where it would be one thing if Snaps were just, you know, their own separate thing and you could use them if you wanted to. But the fact that they are starting to encroach on like existing packages, like you've got the Steam Snap being worked on,

which doesn't need to exist because there is the Steam Flatpak already. You've got the Steam Snap being worked on, which doesn't need to exist because there is the Steam Flatpak already. You've got the Firefox Snap, which doesn't need to exist. I know Mozilla was working with them on that one, but it doesn't need to exist. And you've got... Because once again, there's an official Firefox Flatpak.

I don't really know what they're doing there, besides just trying to gain control over it so to my understanding um to my understanding it's diversification is really what it is in a corporate world when you like acquiring the cinnamon and make an official that's also more diversification right right and you're divesting yourself so that you can get more profitability now to my understanding about the steam versus the flat pack is your snaps versus flat pack is the reason why they're trying to incorporate all of their these flat packs into the snap version is because snap is made more for containerization for servers right i i think

the structure the the the structure and i may be wrong in it but i think it's my understanding that it that's what the difference is between snap and um flat packs is is the integratability into the server ubuntu server they're basing everything on their snaps to be able to plug and play and work into the Ubuntu server flawlessly. And they can only guarantee that with snaps, and that's why they're doing that.

So I wonder if they're trying to make an operating system that is just basically Ubuntu server and you just put all your snaps that you want in there to make it your OS. Your desktop OS. I could see that. Like a modular OS.

Desktop. I could definitely see that. It would definitely make it easier on the backend side because you would just have the one thing that you deploy and then it's basically just like a configuration script. You just change what's pre-installed yep hmm exactly hmm i see where you're coming from that that definitely makes sense yeah um right now it's still very far away from that like there's still a lot of the system

no no it's it's definitely what i'm that is i think possibly the end goal no that yeah that's what everything seems to be lining up to present to a degree and and and like i said the flavors that you're talking about them adopting all the flavors as official that's the diversification because they're going to stick to that one base model and then they'll have all these other ones that compensate for what other users may want for marketability and acceptability on a corporate level. Is there even anything left that they haven't adopted

as like an official Ubuntu flavor that anyone would want anymore? What do they even have at this point? Let's see. Okay, so... I don't really follow Conical that much except for like the brief the brief highlight you know the headlines that come up now and then and that's just kind of like i said just me as a former business owner you know looking at things you know on on because as

like i said they're a business they're they're the microsoft so to speak of of the linux world right even though they're much nicer microsoft you know what i mean but but at any instance that i that's what i equate them to be and for me that's what it's true it's how can they keep their profitability going right right right and the way that the way the technology is changing the way that immutable systems are starting to become a thing, why not go containerized? I know that with Fedora 39, apparently the Fedora images are becoming like an official thing.

That's what I think George Castro, the UBlue guy was telling me when I had him on. That would be a big change for Fedora. But I'm looking at the Ubuntu flavors right now. We have KDE, LXQT, Budgie, Cinnamon, Mate. I'm cutting out the ones that aren't, like, they're on separate desktops, like Studio and things like that. Unity, XFCE.

I can't think of any other, like, DEs that you... Obviously, there are other, like, like, Windermantle things, but, like, DEs, I can't think of one. Besides when Cosmic comes out for Pop OS, maybe... That would be... That would be hilarious if the one selling one of Cosmic

becomes, like, a part of Ubuntu. That would be awesome. But, yeah. But I think that's really what it is they're trying to diversify and stay relevant you know because that's their goal hmm

hmm hmm it's an interesting like I said I've thought about it it's definitely an interesting angle it's a different yeah it's different it's different than what you hear. I mean, it would make sense that they're trying to do that, to do it that way.

Mm-hmm. I mean, I don't know what Mark Shuttleburg would answer that as, but, you know. Circle of friends. Circle of friends is the answer. We're trying to bring everyone together. They're all friends. They're all our family. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We're trying to bring them into the fold. If a company starts calling you family run, they're not your family. They're not your family. You have made them enough profit

that they want to capitalize on that. I watched the change. They want to capitalize on that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. No, I watched the change. And like I said, and I know I kind of put them with the M word, you know, but it's honest. It's honest as day is long. The M word. Lovely.

that's the m word lovely um did you mention um what uh desktop you were using before because i know you mentioned using arco i3 i3 okay okay yeah how is i3 for you what's that occurrence like i haven't used it in a long time besides sway obviously i gotta tell you something about i3 uh-huh i3 with the auto tiling yep um function yep to me is the best honest to god i everybody i you know i've tried xmonad i've tried all of them i've tried bspwn i've tried all of them and qtile and all of them i've even tried freaking maybox you know what i'm saying floating window manager man and the only one that i feel works the best for me that suits my workflow I can customize it to the day as long and it just

I enjoy it is what everybody terms as the beginner's window manager which is i3 I really wish i3 was not a manual tiler the auto tiling script is so useful absolutely

when I first used i3 I was like hey this is great tyler's this is cool this is so better than windows but then when i tried a dynamic tyler i'm like oh my god oh what why is this so much better but i3 is just so easy to configure like that's the great thing about i3 yeah absolutely and that's the thing that that's the thing that that i that like i said you know that i hated about it in the beginning and i suffered through it but then it was like somewhere a ray of sunshine came down lit up my my whole area i heard oh and then there was this thing called auto tiling script that appeared on my screen and i was like what is this and i was like well what's the worst thing i could do try it right if i don't like it i just don't use it uninstall it

remove it right and i tried it and i never looked back it's been it's been i'm telling you that to me is the single biggest blessing in i3 for anyone who hasn't used it basically it takes the manual tiling in i3 and then makes it not bad it makes it an auto tiler it just makes it dynamically tiling no more you have to set the direction which is so annoying

it's so inconvenient, I get it why people like it, but like I'm not one of those people I just want it to go where it thinks is the best spot to put it and then leave it at that. Leave it at that, exactly. And if you want to move it, just do your key binding

and boom, move it wherever you want. I love it. Resize it, whatever. It's awesome. What's your desktop, your window manager? You're riding. I'm on Hyperland right now. So Dynamic Tyler.

Yeah, yeah. window manager you're you're riding i'm on hyperland right now so dynamic yeah yeah dynamic tyler uh very similar to before hyperland what did you use before hyperland i was on awesome wm awesome wm yeah did i think about i tried that one for a minute i did i tried that one for a minute and i i can't remember what it was i didn't like about i don't know key bindings yeah yeah i think that's what it was i couldn't that's exactly what it was I didn't like about it. I don't know if it was the key bindings. Yeah, I think that's what it was. That's exactly what it was. One of the key bindings, it had to do with the key bindings.

I was trying to figure out how to change it, and it was Lua, and I was like, oh, this is crap. Not for me. Bye. Lua is a little bit rough if you've never used Lua before. If I was going to use another window manager where I can figure it with code,

I'd probably go with Qtile just because I'm more comfortable with Python. Um, yeah, but I like Hyperland. Hyperland is good. Um, the nice thing about Hyperland is a couple of months back, they added a plugin system and this plugin system allows you to do things like there's a, uh, a plugin to use the river layout managers, uh, river. One of the strong things about river is it has a plugin to use the river layout managers uh river one of the strong things about river is it has a lot of custom layouts and you can just bring those into hyperland

um no kidding as the plugins grow i could imagine people doing things like you know re-implementing the comp his animations and things like that uh as it stands though there's not many plugins that exist but the ones that do exist are pretty cool like the most of the plugins are for layouts there's one um that changes the way that workspaces work so on on hyperland um you have you know on a you have like you know workspace one two three manager, you have like, you know, workspace one, two, three, four, five. So on Hyperland, those are shared. And what I mean is if I use like say one, two, and three, that one, two, and three is only going to be on like one of my monitors.

If I want to have four, five, that has to be, I can't have that in two places at once. So normally on Awesome, I think on i3 as well, you can have 1 to 9 on each monitor, and they're like their own separate thing. Hyperland, you can't have that.

This plugin makes it work more like it does on Awesome. Oh, no kidding. I get why people like the workflow as it is on Hyperland, but I prefer the other method. Yeah, that sounds more productive to me. The other method is good. The way Hyperland does it is good if you remember what workspaces are on what monitor,

because then you can easily move it back and forth. But I have a separate... That's what I do in i3s. I assign them to different monitors yeah yeah different workplaces um i have a key binder that can just move my monitors between screens though so for me it doesn't really matter either way yeah i do that too i use the key binding too like like i did like my right monitor i have to run my obs on every time and then my left monitor which is right here is designed to always run like vert manager or um my uh you know what my my uh browser or whatever

you know is here uh even like my text editors here like if i'm doing one where you you do editing video it's always over here so that way i just know that it's separate you know and and i keep them separate that way so i do that but if sometimes i'll move my text editor when i'm not ready for it i'll move it to the other monitor you know so it's out of the way that kind of stuff so that's how that's what i do i just flip between them That kind of stuff. So that's what I do. I just split between them.

That's why window managers are the best. The flexibility that you have. I've had some people suggest I go and try out KDE. Because KDE has been doing some things a bit quicker than Wroots. One of them, I think it was... They're doing some global hotkey stuff with like XTG portals that hasn't made it to other desktops yet. The only issue is the applications that would be using the GlobalHotKey

portal haven't supported the portal yet. So it doesn't really matter. Right. But as it stands, I just like where I'm at on Hyperland. It does everything I need it to do. It's really configurable. It's mostly stable.

It's mostly stable nowadays. It's mostly stable. It's mostly stable nowadays. Yeah. It's only going to get better. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Unless Baxby introduces a regression where GTK Windows caused the entire desktop to crash, which did happen a little while ago. But then he fixed it

because he just forgot to merge the fix for it. Right. Before, I guess if i were to go back to use a desktop environment it would have to be kde right right only because of all the the the like like the um effects and stuff that you could set set up and also like tile it you can make it tiling yeah i'm curious to see what uh pop os is doing with cosmic i'm very curious about that too i'm really curious about that like um i know uh in zero g he's got the the pop os shell in where you can actually you know turn on the tiling and stuff like that which is really really, really nice. I always thought, and that's the one thing about, I mean, I'll be honest with you,

the Cosmic desktop that they have right now is cartoonish to me. I get the cartoonish feel, right? I don't know why, but I do. And so, but the one thing that I really, really like about Pop! OS is that tiling feature.

I never used it for gaming, even though actually, the gamer tube was using it for gaming for a while. I turned him on to that. Why don't you give that a try? He loved it. He really, really loved it.

I just don't like the feel of Pop! OS for me. It just doesn't do it for me. Except for the tiling thing. So that's why I've never done much with Pop OS. I don't think I've heard... I don't think I've heard anyone call it cartoonish before. That's a new one for me. It's just me.

I just feel it's gimmicky, kind of cartoonish right do you mean like the theming or yeah the theming i'm talking about the theming yeah huh yeah i guess i could see that hmm you don't like their pop logo yeah no no i i can't find it in a carnival no i get what you're saying um so i'm guessing your how do you tend to theme your desktop is it like fairly minimal is it like do you like the brown of grove box like what do you like to do there no i like vibrant colors i'm latino i'm cuban you know so we like vibrant colors you know so like, you know, but it's really weird because I like it.

I don't like it all over my desktop. Like I'm not into like, like, like the KDE neon shit, you know, the KDE neon wallpapers and those kinds of, uh, man, I like dark themes, but like, like, like my, my, my desktop right now, if you look at it, I've got reaper and I showed it in one of my videos my last videos that I did the Pycom video actually it's got a reaper that's like a neon reaper

it's got like blue and blue and yellow and red you know all that good stuff let's see if we can find it is this it sorry gray it's got blue smoke with red and, you know, all that good stuff. Let's see if we can find it. Is this it? Oh, sorry, grey.

It's got blue, smoke, with... Ah, yeah, I found it. Yeah, I found it. Okay, okay. So you like dark colours with, like, bright accents? Yes, exactly. Right, okay. That makes sense. Yeah, I tend to be the same.

Like, my theme is generally pretty dark and then i'll have like some bright blue or whatever just to like have things pop out um so fairly like people would call this like material or whatever you want to call it nowadays but like it's just oh is that what they call it i don't know it's like that's google's terminology for it um i call it mine. I call it my gig. People call it a flat theme or something like that. Yeah, it just looks good. No, I just, you know, what I do like is at the top, like my bar,

I like the different colors. You know, like the rainbow type colors, you know, like the red, the blues, the pinks, you know, that kind of stuff. I like that. Yep. Yep. Just to add, just to add flair, a little flair. Yeah.

But you know, yeah, I don't like, I can't stand bright white themes, man. No, it's not my thing. I can't, I can't. The only time, the only good thing that I will ever say about windows is that they actually implemented a dark theme in 10. Was it 10 or yeah, it wasn't even an eight that they actually implemented a dark theme in 10 was it 10 or yeah it wasn't even an 8 that they had i think it was in in 10 windows 10 they made where you can go to dark theme yeah they finally got around to making a dark theme and they've extended uh extended it in windows 11 as well that's one of the good things about 11 one of the good things yeah and i mean

that that i will say i mean, I enjoy dark theme. I never could stand the bright themes. I hated it. Hated it back in the day. I think Windows managed to do the light themes relatively well. I think the big thing is they didn't go with like, the problem with a lot of light themes is they use white. Whereas somehow Windows had like a slightly off-white a gray

these light colors that still they're still light colors but they weren't blindingly white right not like ours no holy crap ubuntu's i remember the first time that dude that was i was like holy crap blaringly white And then just recently there was another Another distro I did That I looked at And it was blindingly bright Oh Voyager

It was Voyager Linux They're white and it was blindingly white But before I did the video I actually changed it all to dark so I could do the video. Do you find it? Voyager Linux. Oh, that page is already very bright.

Ah, yeah, I see. I see your problem. Yeah, that makes sense. Oh, God. We're closing in on the two-hour mark now. Holy crap. We should be...

You're awesome. You got plenty of material for your video? Eh? You got plenty of material for your video? I've got plenty of material. Usually what I do is I upload the the full like the full recording as like one thing and then i like clip out things for like the extra clips afterwards whatever whatever you want to do whatever's clever buddy sweet i really enjoy i really

enjoy talking with you man thank you for doing this with me a lot of fun as well this was this was good i the two hours just flew on by yeah well know, God's gifted me with the gift of gab, man. He, he, I could talk about anything. You know, it's good when it's good when people want you to talk when they don't want you to talk.

Well, you know, that's a bit more of a problem. Difference is I don't care. Yeah, that'll do it. Tell the people where they can find you, where they can see all your stuff.

I'm everywhere, man. I'm on Twitter, the LinuxTube at Twitter. Instagram, the LinuxTube. Facebook, the LinuxTube. YouTube, obviously, the LinuxTube. I'm on Discord, the LinuxTube. And I am the LinuxTube on YouTube, obviously at the LinuxTube. I'm on Discord, the LinuxTube. And I am the LinuxTube on Mastodon. That's me.

I branded everything all the same. So you just gotta go to whatever social media and just search LinuxTube. The LinuxTube. And you'll find it. You have good branding. Mine... Mine's a mess. I use my name. This is a problem. Look for the penguin yeah

but yeah no i mean it's it's you know i i started to make that mistake in the beginning and i just realized you know i just need to brand myself everywhere yeah yeah yeah the same you know i'm saying no that that's a good idea i just i i'm i'm far enough in now where it's like i can't really fix it um so you're just confusing a hell lot of people yeah that's true so it is what it is it just stays how it is now um yeah uh as for me on gmail the linux tube at gmail.com that's gonna be in the transcript now good luck with all the spam spam you're gonna get from that On Gmail, thelinuxtube at gmail.com. That's going to be in the transcript now. Good luck with all the spam you're going to get from that.

Are you serious? I don't know. YouTube likes to auto-annotate stuff. Yeah, I know. You're only going to get a bunch of bots now. Oh, boy. Anything else you want to mention? I guess if you don't know who I am,

come check out my channel while you're there. Like and subscribe. Maybe even consider joining. Sweet. As for me, the main channel is Brody Robertson. I do Linux videos there six-ish days a week. Sometimes they're not Linux videos. Sometimes they're just general tech videos, but six-ish days a week, sometimes they're not Linux videos, sometimes they're just general tech videos, but six-ish days a week, um, the gaming channel is Brody on Games, right now I am playing through Yakuza 0 and Devil May Cry 3, probably Devil May Cry 3, I may have finished it

by now, but Final Fantasy 16 is coming out soon, so when that happens, that is going to take over that channel. And if you're listening to the audio version of this, the video version can be found on Tech Over Tea on YouTube. If you are watching the video version, you can find the audio anywhere you find audio podcasts, the iTunes, Apple, whatever it's called. There's an RSS feed. Search Tech Over Tea on your favorite apps.

You'll find it, probably. Yeah. Any final words? Guys, just try. If you don't know anything about Linux, try it. If you do know anything about Linux and you want to try something, still try it. Have fun with it. That's what it should be.

It should be fun. Absolutely. That's a good way to end it. That's about it. See you. Peace, guys.