TBPN Live - Meta Orion Headset, MKBHD's Panels Disaster, Volta Energy

Episode Date: October 4, 2024

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Welcome to Technology Brothers, the most profitable podcast in the world. For those that don't know, John Fio, world-class ideas guy and entrepreneur. Usually they go hand-in-hand, and he's very humble about it. I don't know if even you know this, but the guys climb like six out of the tallest ten peaks in the world. Never once posted a picture about it. It's called the 14ers. Yeah, the 14ers, right. Never once posted a picture about it.

Hardly has told anyone. And Volta, he did it all without oxygen, right, which is like they say that can't be done. So the guy's a physical specimen, but, you know, there's got to be some edge, right? Volta is that edge. So Volta's a new concept. We were able to get some because we're also ideas guys.

Of course. And wanted to be able to provide some feedback. So Volta's a new concept. They're making fresh energy drinks. I think you've probably had a Red Bull or a Monster or Celsius in your day. That stuff got made, you know, months, if not potentially years ago, right? Sometimes you crack open a Red Bull and you're like, this is a vintage bowl. Vintage bowl.

Vintage bowl. Actually, at Senra's event this weekend, I figured out a pretty interesting ARB that I'll be taking advantage of next year. Red Bulls in this retreat center that he was hosting it at were $2. But if I walk down the street to the gas station, they're $6, right? So they call that the Senra ARB. Interesting. Did you get to try one of David Senra's Jocko Go

in the cherry vanilla flavor that he loves so much. I think he was just randomly drinking those. It's not random. No, not random. He is obsessed with that. No, I know, but he was like the only one that had that. No, at his events, he has a dedicated fridge with just Jocko Go. Jocko Go.

He's just the man who loves Jocko. The man who loves Jocko. It's incredible. Okay. Yeah, whenever I'm hanging out with him, I drink one in solidarity. In solidarity. Of course. Yeah.

But going forward, it might be Volta. Some competition. So the idea with Volta is to make fresh energy drinks, right? Fresh is almost always better. So in this case, I'm taking some sparkling yuzu, one of my favorite cute little beverages straight from Japan, and we're going to mix the Volta right in there. It's got, I won't give you the laundry list of ingredients, but caffeine, L-theanine, and magnesium, as well as liposomal nanomolecules, which effectively delivers what Theo will say is all-day dynamic energy, right?

So, like, energy that's shifting based on what you're sort of embarking on, whether you're climbing a mountain or you're, you know, battling with a spreadsheet, right? So, let's give this a little shot. I have no idea how to dose this so I'm going to guess that you know it's almost impossible to say was that

15 milliliters 32 per bottle so I don't know if this is oh wow look at that I don't know if this is oh wow I don't know if this is 200 milligrams of caffeine or like 500 but either way we'll find out pretty good pretty good it's tasty I think the yuzu is doing a little heavy lifting to kind of mask the um yeah but um the nutrient cocktail the

nutrient cocktail the scientific formula it definitely it definitely has a flavor that you won't forget you know sure like you could be on top of mount kilimanjaro in like 12 years and you're on your last breath and somebody squirts a little bit of this in your mouth and you sort of like jolt up. Bolt alive. And make it back to tell the tale. But anyways, I'm sure XL and Volta will be doing numerous joint ventures in the future. Of course, of course.

Yeah, we need a good energy drink sponsor for the pod. This was unsponsored, by the way, just purely an idea guy supporting another idea guy. Of course, of course. Let's get into the news. Is there anything you want to cover from the journal, or should we just go straight into the timeline? Yeah, we can go into the the top story um i think we got to talk about meta's orion glasses sorry i'm just reading this the uh stolen stolen dollar well i mean that that honestly relates to

what we're we're talking about like i've been sick this week, and I was thinking, you know, there's a lot that you can throw at it. Caffeine, nicotine. But there's kind of a new theory that if you're sick, maybe cocaine is the thing that will get you back on your game. Right, right. I've heard that. I don't have easy access to it. maybe cocaine is the thing that right we'll get you back on your game right right and so i've heard that i don't have easy access to it i'm not demoing it today but i was i was wondering if that would make me feel better if i had a really important podcast should i be doing coke i i tend to think i would feel terrible yeah I was on Coke while I was trying to podcast. Doing a podcast.

I'm sure people have done that. I'm sure even people have called into CNBC at different points for post earnings to just kind of chit chat and been on it. But given that you are on track to be a public company CEO, sometime within the next few years, handful of years, it's hard to say. You have to be more market dependent. You don't want that track record with the SEC, right? Like you don't want, you don't want, you don't want that attached to your good name, right?

Yeah, it is interesting. I have a friend who is a product manager at a big tech company and kind of lost. I mean, making, you know, a couple hundred thousand dollars every month just doing kind of nothing. But a little bit lost and was just thinking about how to kind of get back in tune. A lot of people were doing the ayahuasca retreats. These are really popular. But he was kind of worried about like, you know, you go to this country and, you know, maybe you get your brain rearranged and you come back as a different person. And so he actually went on a different type of retreat. He went on a cocaine retreat. Same concept, like you're still traveling to a

foreign country. There's a shaman there, but instead of administering ayahuasca in heroic doses, you're taking cocaine. And so instead of sitting there all strung out, all messed up, kind of tripping... Getting turbo fried. Exactly. You're locked in. And so there's like cubicles with monitors and Bloomberg terminals. These are like, do they put like a, there's no beds, right? It's just like a pillow under the desk.

Exactly, exactly. I mean, it's a simulacrum of like an average Wall Street office, essentially. And that's in Peru? Chile? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. So you fly down there to go on the cocaine retreat and just kind of lock in.

And then you come back refreshed and ready to kick ass. Right. Yeah, I can see that. We've entered back into the age of stimulants. Like the 2010s, like things were so good. It was about how do I dumb down, like this life is so good. How do I, we're coming out of the great recession.

How, you know, everybody's, you know, becoming a software engineer, making six figures overnight. People were trying to sort of like dumb that down. Whereas now people are realizing that great you know men and great women great people need to be on uh it's sort of your duty to be on some selection of stimulants whether it's volta excel um you know a nice cup of coffee um and some of the harder stuff uh if you're in if you're in it you in parts of the world that allow it. It's almost like your civic duty.

If all of Peru was on cocaine daily or a few times weekly, it's hard to see how that wouldn't have a positive effect on the economy, which ultimately has a trickle down effect. The fans really do want people to be on coke. I feel like the memes on Twitter are, people are projecting like a lot. Yeah. And they're starting to search for cocaine

where there's maybe just somebody who had a Celsius. Right. Realistically. Right. But it is funny. I don't know. I don't know if it would, I don't know i don't know if it uh i don't know how much it would be uh performance enhancing i i isn't it hard to stay jacked if you're

on coke all day i feel like cocaine makes you skinny uh i'm sure i'm sure it kills appetite a lot of stimulants do because you just have better things to do than eat yeah right you're locked in yeah how are you gonna you don't like lock like i've got to be fasted for 48 to 72 hours to lock in eating a meal yeah you don't lock in when you're eating a meal you're needing a nice meal in my opinion you're sort of just like you know good chit chat right yeah um yeah the the weight loss thing was funny um i think i texted you this the other day uh i hadn't at senra's event i hadn't been on uh i don't have a scale at home i hadn't been on a scale in like three months and I step on a scale and I was like uh I honestly laughed because I in three months since since having um uh my daughter um my wife had stopped um

she stopped cooking she's taking care of the baby. She's breastfeeding. Like it's literally almost a 24 seven thing. So stop cooking. And so that period of time, I also was extremely locked in and the combination of being locked in and Sarah not coming in being like, Hey, like you haven't eaten in six hours, like eight hours, like here's some food. So just every single day, 24 hour fast and drop 12 pounds in three months, Like, completely unintentionally. Not even like less. That was a pound a week. Not even less body fat, just less muscle. Just less everything.

Just less everything. And somebody said. Well, it's good to go into the winter bulk. Yeah, right. Yeah, somebody said to me like, "'Dude, what happened to you? "'You look super skinny.'" And I hadn't seen a scale so I didn't know and

I was just kind of offended and then the truth was presented right before my eyes anyways we got to talk about we got to talk about Zuck and I feel like you should probably launch into it to at least a 10-minute monologue on launching products there's so many things here. Yeah, it's such an interesting story. I mean, people are, so yeah, Meta launched these Orion augmented reality glasses. They look just like normal sunglasses or normal glasses,

but they project holograms over on top of the lenses so instead of doing the pass-through like what the apple vision pro does where you're using cameras and then re-projecting that onto a screen you can just see the real world so the in the resolution is essentially infinite it's the same thing that the uh the the microsoft holo lens did and that one company that didn't do very well, Meta, or what was it? I mean, there's been so many cracks with this. Magic Leap was really struggling. There's Google Glass, too.

Google Glass was a little bit of that. It was kind of just like screen in the corner, but yeah. But there's just like a million different weird things going on with this where the reaction from everyone that Meta invited to their developer day to experience this, everyone was so excited and was like, this is amazing, this is incredible. But if you look back at what happened

when all of the same influencers got tours of the Apple Vision Pro, it was the same thing. They were all like, this is incredible, this is finally the breakthrough, I'm definitely gonna daily drive this. And I always think back to, you know the Pepsi challenge? You remember this? Like Pepsi versus Coke, this whole thing,

this whole ad campaign they did where they would just go on the street and have people try Pepsi and try Coke and people would overwhelmingly select Pepsi. And the trick was that Pepsi was sweeter. And so they give you a one ounce shot and over one ounce, people would prefer Pepsi. But over 16 ounces, people would prefer Coke. Interesting.

Because the sweetness would actually get to them. And so of course, like the market is actually roughly 50-50 between Coke and Pepsi. But over one ounce, people overwhelmingly prefer Pepsi. And so, I'm just always worried with these VR demos that they set you up for an amazing 20 minute experience, and they don't let anyone try one for a month straight. Because, I mean, Ben Thompson was...

I mean, it would kill the product before it actually got released. If Ben Thompson wore it for a month and was like... And was like, actually, I churned. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you give it to him for 30 minutes and he's like, this is incredible, right? Yeah.

And so I'm always hesitant about that until... At this point, if they want me to be stoked, I need to see them give the product to someone for a month straight. And then I need to know, were they still using it? Were they still daily driving it after a month? Yeah, because I got the meta. I got some right here.

Oh, nice. So I got these. I have a bunch of thoughts on this. And I got these. And I was like, these are cool, mostly for the video capture stuff. And I took them out of the box, put on set them up went and drove my Ferrari posted a video on social media and within like 30 minutes local mom was commenting like very angrily saying like don't ever drive like this around our house like stuff like that

and it ended up starting a bunch of drama and that was the last time i used my meta ray band so i had sort of a bad wait wait did she see the video she saw the video because you posted the odometer speedometer um i thought it was i thought i thought it was fairly controlled. Everybody has their own perception of speed. Yeah. But I haven't used them since then. Yeah, you told me that you use them for a drive. So I actually, I kind of like unboxed these while I was driving and just threw them on and was hoping that I could just like put them on,

press a button, and just start recording. But you can't. You have to set them up. And this is something that always frustrates me about these meta products, is that they just assume that you're the biggest Facebook fanboy and that you have like, oh yeah, I'd love to log in and stuff.

Oh yeah, I know what my Facebook, you know. Yeah, it's like, let's be realistic. Not everyone wants to log in with these things. They should let you just turn them on, take a picture, and then say, hey, don't you want to log in to get your photos? Yeah.

Like, push it down the road a little bit. I don't know who these, I don't know who that recording functionality is for other than like the guys on Instagram that are like, hey, what do you do for a living? Maybe. I mean, I'm going to try and use these around the kids and the dogs and stuff and see if that's cool and see if that works. I think there could be something there where it's like they really are like as light as just normal wayfarers. So if you're going to the beach, why not just have this on there? And I do think there is something legitimate about the sunglass and

the glasses being like the next computing platform, the next major consumer hardware category. Because if you look at the evolution, a lot of times the devices that have gotten really popular have been just iterations of things that we've already come to expect and love. Oura Ring is, I think, doing $500 million a year. And it's like, why is that doing so well and the pendant companies aren't doing that well at least not yet um i think it's because people just wear rings so they just understand it apple watch it's like i

already wear a watch so like i'll just throw on a watch i get it and then like a lot of the the question is yeah it'll be interesting to see what the glasses market because i i am convinced i think we're both convinced that it is the next or at least a complementary computing platform to your other devices. The question is, does it become like the smartwatch market where there's just sort of like the dominant fang players and then kind of no one else? Like you still like, you know, it's not like an actual replacement

for what a lot of people use like watches for yeah it'll be interesting to see if um companies like meta continue to integrate with like existing silhouettes like you know ray bands yep or if they go into the orion route and it's just like no we're we're the platform we're the device're the brand, this is the only thing that matters, because I can't see myself wearing that frame, the Orion frame, ever. But if you went to, I would start to get a lot. Why are you pronouncing it that way? It's Orion.

Orion. Orion? Orion. Orion. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know, Orion's belt. Yeah, Orion's belt. Sorry, sorry.

Well, I mean, the frames were kind of, kind of, like, built up to be, like, a dev kit, basically. Like, they're not shipping that yet. And they will wind up shipping in, like, a Ray-Ban frame. I mean, they have a pretty significant partnership with Sonica, the company behind Ray-Bans. Yeah. Which is, like, this incredible monopoly. It's, like, a $100 billion business. Great company.

Wait, so imagine the feeling of ripping ripping a volta putting in an excel and then putting on aviator versions of the orion glasses and just locking in to a day at work like this like um and you're just at work you're just firing on all cylinders typing on a holographic keyboard just firing off emails three years away three years out basically yeah i think so yeah if we got invited to demo day it could have been last week or two weeks ago it is yeah there's there's so many uh the the luxadia the luxottica ceo like reached out to zuck apparently to be like hey we should do a deal and this was years ago the years ago it was kind of like oh like you have somebody on my team like this and like somebody on his team was like no like you need to talk to this guy

yeah that's how they do the deal so they just re-upped I think they have a 10-year deal it's exclusive and Luxottica is the sole hardware like well so they're completely vertically integrated so they they own Ray-Ban they bought I think they bought Ray-Ban in the 90s, and then they jacked up the price and stopped selling it in gas stations and became this luxury brand. They bought a whole bunch of other, I think they own Persol and a few other brands. But then they own everything from the manufacturing to how they grind the lenses, all that.

But then they also own the retail distribution. They own LensCrafters. And so they have more, I think there's more LensCrafter stores than there are Apple stores. And so, and Meta, I think they bought 5% of Luxottica. And so you could see a world

where Meta winds up buying Luxottica. Luxottica also owns Supreme. And so there's this theory that like, oh, Zuck loves hypebeast culture, so he's like, but he clearly does love fashion, and so there is something interesting there. Yeah, he's working, I didn't realize he's working on his new kind of cringe clothing,

is with Mike Amiri, the designer. Very sort of hypebeast-y, like, if you listen to a rap song, every 10th song we'll talk about like Amiri Jeans or whatever. Okay, sure. But I think, so the interesting thing, Meta versus Apple with the next-gen computing platform, and let's just ignore Snap because they're going to continue to drive returns for their employees. Yep. But, which is kind of antithetical to everything that we believe in.

Yes, exactly. But, so this is the ultimate matchup of founder mode versus manager mode, right? Which is like Tim Apple, you know, building, you know,

Apple headsets, like trying to just sort of like iterate towards something great like who knows would steve would steve jobs have put out that uh that product or would that have been an internal product for another three years before you could get to this platform right um and zuck who's basically been his probably only insecurity besides that he's just deep down always gonna be a nerd, is that he doesn't own the platform, right? Like that's what keeps him up at night.

So that's like a, you know, basically like multi-decade effort to own the next computing platform and own the hardware, yeah um and i think glasses are a reasonable he's like yeah he's like the problem is is that the there's just this weird like kind of i don't know user hostility when you set up one of these products it just doesn't feel like i'm in it feels like i'm in conflict it feels like I'm in conflict. It feels like I'm sparring with meta when I set something up like this.

He just wants to make it. It asked me to allow notifications on my phone for this thing twice, just before I could take a picture. It's like, I remember I was testing the meta quest, I think it was the second one, the meta quest two. And I was like, just want to go back to the time when you could take an n64 put in a cartridge turn it on and it would go blink and then you'd just be playing mario fully basically analog basically immediately yeah um the with with

with the quest onboarding even after you've all set it up, you have to log in, there's six different logins now because I have a Facebook password, a Meta password, an Instagram password, an Oculus password, a pin. What if the Meta Ray-Bans is just his way of trying to convince Wall Street that people still use Facebook? Because I had to remember what my Facebook password is or whatever just to get to convince wall street that people still use facebook because like i had to like i had to

remember what my facebook password is or whatever just to like get i mean if you can sell every facebook user one of the three hundred dollar pair of glasses i think he's gonna do very well but yeah um but uh there was just this like it was like the the demand for like it has to be social features there have you have to be logged in you have to be in their store you have to be doing all this stuff it just like took the surprise and delight completely out of it yeah and and i feel like with with this i mean it wasn't as bad but it was still like like you could just tell it it was almost like i'm i'm interacting with two devices that are like a divorced mom and dad.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's like the Apple phone is like trying to kill this as hard as possible. So it's like, hey, just so you know, they're going to track you. So do you want to track or no? Do you want to track? Oh, they're going to want your contacts. So like, do you want contacts or not? Like, be careful.

Like, this company's trying to fuck you. So be very careful. And these guys are like, well, we don't want you to use the phone at all but like also you have to install this app to use our thing so we want to like get our hooks in there but then it's just so adversarial and like i just feel like i'm like torn between well the core the core issue is that the meta pm who is making 200k a month yeah the day before the day before one of their most important sprints he got like a 50 sleep score so he was all thrown off probably he comes into work he's pissed off right he's only had seven hours of sleep he starts chewing out the whole engineering team chewing out legal

and everybody's just kind of like oh like you like, you know, let's just ship it. You know, meanwhile, you know, with an Apple product, like the designer is just like meditating for like 12 hours. And it's just like, let's just remove that part of the flow. And then let's remove that part of the flow. Yeah, exactly. Let's just keep removing until you can just swim through at the user. I mean, it's just, there's just so much like, maybe my expectations are too high for these companies,

but it's like, you're a trillion dollar company. Why do I have to do a day one update? Like I had to install a software update just to use it the first time. It's like, just ship it with something that works basic and then let me upgrade later. Like once you converted me. And it's not even that,

it's not even that an extended setup process of like two hours is gonna be bad for immediate conversion because I'm gonna get over that, but it's just gonna leave a bad taste in my mouth of like this product doesn't care about me. I remember one of the most magical things was when the iPhones started shipping and they were fully charged.

And now you go and you buy an iPhone and it's fully charged. And so you leave the Apple store and you're like, wow, this is awesome. It just feels like they went a little bit farther. And that's gotta be a little bit tricky, right? Well, Apple also improved over time. Like, don't you remember when it was like, you were like, oh, I'm switching phones.

Like, it's gonna be such a huge hassle. And now it's like, you know, they basically do it in the store. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The one thing that'll be interesting with glasses is glasses are always going to be a fashion statement of sorts it's literally sitting on your it's like yeah it's it's the window to the eyes right and not that that doesn't look fantastic but you probably if we're wearing

glasses all the time are going to want to have... Is it recording? It looks like, yeah, you are recording right now. No, so I think that it's possible people might have four or five different pairs of glasses. They might have sunglasses. They might have, you know, like... I mean, if Meta owns Luxottica, they're going to own all of the good brands, basically. But I think Apple would be able to come in.

And I mean, that's the big question that a lot of people have is like, so meta announced this orion prototype it costs 10k to produce right now per unit and it has like a like maybe a two-hour battery life like there's a lot of problems that they need to iron out and so when ben thompson pushed uh bo, it sounded like 2027 maybe. It's a consumer product. And so the question is like, does Apple have something that's adjacent? Yeah.

So here's my big issue with headsets. I already have tin foil on the inside of my hat, so I'm all good. But basically, last time I checked deep in the Apple iPhone terms of service, there's stuff that literally says, don't hold this device up to your head, hold it here. Really?

Really for health reasons. There is proof that the radiation, even though it's non-ionizing or whatever, that your phone admits is not something that you want that close to your body, right? It's why, you know, it's why there's a bunch of brands popping up that are like, we're like EMF proof underwear. Cause if you're putting your, it's a big, big possibility

that having your phone next to your reproductive organs could be contributing to the fertility crisis and like other down range issues. So for me, I'm looking at it as what I don't know if there's anything that will ever be able to mitigate that right and so if I'm not comfortable I never I haven't taken a phone call with my phone up to my ear I'm like you know the the asshole with wired headphones wired headphones or if I'm in a public space I'll put on speaker and just keep

it quiet because I just don't there's seemingly like unnecessary risk to have your phone like slapped here so that's my big thing is like okay if this is the next computing platform like how do we ensure that we all don't get like turbo brain cancer then you know and that that feels like a very unanswered question that historically both the cellular networks and consumer product, consumer electronics companies have completely ignored. Except they tend to bury stuff in their terms that say, like, don't use this for three hours straight or whatever because it like it will literally like heat up the inside of your of your brain like deep into your brain if you just hold it up there um and so that again it's like a big question that i have and um i think it's worth somebody funding like an entire documentary on cell phones because there's so much emphasis on how cellular device like the things that we do on our devices are bad for us doom scrolling you know the dating apps and

things like that but there's actual like the physical like physical potentially risk of the device and constantly being attached to it because we're sort of electrical beings that are absorbing a lot of different types of radiation at all times, but You know basically absorbing really concentrated doses of it can you know is a risk factor Yeah, I think there's there's definitely something to Be said for like there's just like this generational change of like some sort of pollutant that we find out later. Like in the 70s, it was like lead. Yeah, and then asbestos.

Yeah. Yeah. And like lead made everyone, I mean, there's this theory that like lead made everyone insane and like aggressive. And that's why there's like a crime wave and a murder spike. And then it's like, maybe we cut out the lead and we increase the plastics and then everyone gets really docile and doesn't have kids. Infernal. Infernal. And so it's like balancing we cut out the lead and we increase the plastics and then everyone gets really docile and doesn't have kids. And so it's like balancing these toxicants over time.

Well, the funny thing with lead is that lead actually stops a lot of electromagnetic radiation. So if you had lead paint in your house, you probably wouldn't get cell service. Interesting. And so I think we're actually going to see a trend back towards using lead paint in bedrooms because if you want to create an environment in your room that is um you know doesn't have any other ways to build a faraday cage yeah but it's actually pretty efficient to be like let's just paint all the walls yeah but you get lead poisoning i don't know if i don't know if it's actually been proven that the lead from paint it's like gets into your um the whole like kids are going to eat the paint chips or whatever yeah and there's other ways to do it

you could paint one layer of lead and then paint over it right yeah um so anyways i'm going to get into the lead painting business we're bringing back lead you're going to get some leaded gasoline consumer electronics are out. Lead gasoline. Yeah, lead gasoline. For some reason, I don't think lead is coming back. I think the answer might be no lead, no plastic. Well, isn't it still used in x-ray, like when you're getting an x-ray? Oh, yeah.

Don't they give you this lead vest? Yeah, like a lead vest. So lead is never left. It doesn't need to come back. It's always been with us. And it is insulated. It's the anti here. It's sort of... People. And it is insulated. It's the anti here. It's sort of...

People used to chew pencil lead. Kids used to be nervously chewing a pencil. The original Excel. It just gets you more angry. And you become a murderer or something. Should we talk about that MKBHD app? Yeah. I thought it was too cheap.

Too cheap? Too cheap. 50 bucks a year? For that quality of wallpaper? You gotta go higher. Yeah. You gotta go higher. No, it's funny.

I was seriously thinking, like, why is everyone complaining? Just don't buy this, you know? Like, yeah, it's 50 bucks a year. Well, no, this is the thing. But it's because he is a critic, so there's this like people like criticizing the critic and that's why they're so excited about it um but did you have a did you have a hot take about it it was kind of interesting i mean yeah here's my thing anybody whose job is to criticize is the number one target for all criticism.

Right? It doesn't matter if you are, like, a poster who is posting. Right? And you just, like, have hot takes all the time. Even hot takes. But I think he's just built up such a reputation of doing takedowns. And usually they're, I think they're very fair for the most part. 100%. Like, the Fisker Ocean

literally doesn't work anymore. I think the only criticism is just that it seemed like to be a pretty poorly made app. I don't have any issue with him coming out and I don't have any issue with him coming out and trying to sell usernames for 50 bucks a month.

Or sorry, not usernames. Wallpapers. Wallpapers.papers no issue with that at all it's just like i don't know like have some good taste in you know dev shops or partners right like yeah there's sort of this aesthetic issue with it that i have which is like you review technology and you put out a shitty app yeah it doesn't matter that i think the product's also pretty like yeah to me the product's shitty. I'm never going to do that. You know, family men, we have, there's only one thing that should be on your wallpaper, your wife and children, right? Or the office.

Or the office. Yeah, or your super evil Megacorp logo. Just remind yourself that. Yeah, yeah. During the daytime, you know, and then when you get home swap it back yeah um no so i just think that i have like sort of a general issue with the aesthetics of being the tech reviewer that puts out a poorly made app which it was like it got completely torn apart it was reverse engineered everyone stole everything and then also just like the the the implementation of the ad flow was just, that is always clunky.

It had an ad? Yeah, so basically you would, you install the app and then you browse for wallpapers. And there are some that look nice, they look fine. You can actually just screenshot them and zoom in. It's very weird because they have to show them to you so you can just screenshot them. You don't get the full thing, it only shows you like three quarters so then you have to zoom in a It's very weird. Because they have to show them to you so you can just screenshot them. You don't get the full thing. It only shows you like three quarters. So then you have to zoom in a little bit. But it's fine. It's weird. But the weird thing is that if you want standard definition, which is like low res, which I think is actually HD. So people are weirded out about that because

this whole brand is MKBHD, like high definition, and he's selling a standard definition product instead of giving you the high definition and then having you upgrade to the 4K version. But if you want the standard definition, you click and you have to watch two ads. And that's why they were asking for location targeting, because if you don't have someone's location, the ad rates will plummet. And so you need to know where people are, roughly. Just the course locations, what's important.

But they asked for fine-grained. So it was kind of like a sloppy implementation. But just if you're in an app and an ad pops up, it feels like, there's this iOS widget, basically, that a lot of mobile games use and a lot of just kind of like cheap apps that you download to do like one thing. Like there's the difference between like some app that just like puts subtitles at the bottom and like the captions app.

The captions app is like venture funded. It has a subscription. It's expensive, but it's the highest quality and it's like crafts. It's a beautiful app that works really, well i use it all the time and and the reason is uh if they just like popped up an ad i would be like oh this is like so annoying and it's like this unskippable thing and like the x is in the corner and you gotta go find it and it's all blended in and stuff and so that that was just kind of like a like a mediocre experience and then and then i think once people like started digging in they started digging into every little thing and they found that like one of the artists

on the app had put up a wallpaper that was just the color orange and it's like you don't need to pay for that at all because you can just make that in two seconds in any thing take a picture of an orange and just zoom in exactly there's a million different ways to just make your background orange if you want um but yeah i think something that's funny is it feels like a very like vintage app like this is the kind of like quality and uh idea that should have dropped the year that the app store opened yeah exactly they're definitely yeah flashlight app it feels kind of like that. I think the better... MKBHD has done some smart partnerships. Yeah, Ridge Wallet. Ridge Wallet.

Fantastic. Very close friends with Sean and Connor, the CMO. I think that was like a very smart partnership from both sides for them to come together. He's a big 8 Sleeps advertiser. Yeah. He does a great job with those. Yeah. How can you not right um uh eight sleep if you're listening sleep on a regular organic cotton mattress so

um we're always open to our sleep partners at the world's most profitable podcast but but i i think what i think what happened with, like, it's weird because there is a correct way to introduce a $50 a year subscription wallpaper app, but I think it's the Call of Duty method.

Have you ever played any of those games? Yeah, of course. Okay, so, like, Call of Duty... I basically spawned into Rust. Exactly. You spawned into rust exactly i just like have no

memories and then i need 360 no scoping off of the tower yeah yeah so so call of duty the monetization like has ramped up a ton yeah but they reset the the shittiness of the monetization every single cycle so they're on annual cycle, essentially. Every year they come out with a new game. And every year you buy the game and it's $60. And there's no pay-to-win mechanics. There's no battle pass. There's nothing you can pay for.

And everyone's like, oh, thank God. Like this one isn't pay-to-win. And everyone's like, good. Like I just got all the content that I wanted. And I get to make the decision of like get to and i get to you know make the decision of like what do i get and what's the price and is it good or bad and everyone's like that's a seven out of ten every time yeah and people play but over time what happens is that like the normie call of duty person comes on they play the campaign and they play a little bit of

multiplayer maybe they like get to the prestige level one they unlock all the guns and then they're kind of done after like month. They get burned out. Those people kind of fade off, but the really hardcore fans will play the full year until the next one comes out. And the really, really hardcore ones will stay on for an extra year on the game that they love.

The monetization just keeps ramping up during that time, and they sell more and more skins and more and more stuff. And so if you go and look at like the like a review a day one review of a duty to came out in 2020 or something like that like the new modern warfare the the reviews from the day it launched will be like this is this is this is a reasonable monetization program yeah but if you talk to the influencers that stuck with it, they'll be like, it's the worst thing ever.

It's pay to win. You can sing. There's loot boxes and gambling now, and they've added all this stuff on. But they do that very deliberately because they only introduce it to people that are already in the ecosystem and sucked in. They're like, I've spent three grand on this game.

I'm going gonna spend the next two hundred dollars exactly yeah yeah yeah it's funny i used to worry as a kid i was i was like are we running out of wars they can make games about right right because it felt like they went from like they did world war one yep they did world war two and then black ops was vietnam right and then when do they introduce well they did the future wars they did the future ones but eventually it seems like here's a here's a here's a take do they do operation iraqi freedom like in the next 10 years like oh in call of duty yeah that would be crazy i don't think they've ever done that, right? They've done Modern Warfare, and it's like in the general area, but it's abstract.

It's generally too offensive. But it's abstract. Like, it's too offensive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you did a war from within the last 20 years, it would be, but ultimately, that would probably be the best-selling version of Call of Duty. Yeah, it is crazy, because they'll do ones where it's like, oh, you're fighting terrorists in the Middle East, but it's not just like straight up killing someone.

I used to enjoy the missions, you know, in the context of my great-grandpa was like a fighter pilot and got shot down like multiple times. Multiple times? Yeah, yeah. Really? How do you survive multiple times? So this guy is a legend. That's insane. Pearl Harbor happens.

He enlists, lies about his age to get in. Yeah. Small dude becomes the rear gunner in, like, B-52 bombers. Cool. Does two tours, gets shot down twice. Wow. Makes it out and then is trained to be the P-51. What was the best fighter jet?

The Mustang. The Mustang, yeah. Trains to be a Mustang pilot and is in route to the Pacific theater when the war ended finally. Interesting, wow. Anyways, tough, tough, tough bastard. Yeah. So to bring it back to MKBHD, I think what he should have done is he should have just launched with something. Just go for just the installs. Just free, no ads, no tracking. Just get everyone to install this thing and then see where you're at.

And then once you have everyone's email and you've captured everyone and you know who actually likes it, then you no longer have to message to your whole YouTube community. Because he put this out, he did basically a sponsored read on his own YouTube channel introducing the app. That goes out to 12 million people or something like that. Yeah. But there's probably a subset of like 100,000 people that are actually down for this. And I mean, Nikita Deer was saying that he's gonna make like three million a year off this. Well, yeah, and the funny thing is,

I mean, the good thing is when you have a really big audience like that and people generally like you, you get multiple chances. So he'll probably still get to that end state. But three million a year for somebody who makes probably 15 million, I have no idea how much money he makes. It's a large organization at this point.

Yeah, and I'm sure that Dell would be like, we'll give you $5 million a year to cover us a few times or whatever. That might erode trust more than this, honestly. At least this is what you're trying. But regardless, yeah, he could have gotten those power units. Jesus, like the guy reviews iPhones and Android phones.

Yeah, but the whole, that's the thing with being creators, right? If you get big enough, you have to sell out to keep growing, right? I mean, there is something to, for like. Unless you have your own product. Yeah, you want to own your own product. Yeah. And that's clearly where he's going with this. And he did say that he wants to, like, add some other stuff to it. Maybe it won't be just like a wallpaper out forever but what if you could ai generate a family so if you're an incel

you could on the panels app that's what this guy is yeah well i'm just that's just what i associate with wallpapers oh yeah because it's always it's supposed to be your family um yeah this is very, very odd. Wait. This is great. You're just going to see this email and laugh. Look at this subject. Well, should we talk about another kind of iffy launch, Pair AI? Dude, these guys' response was honestly um really good i thought like they kind of did what they needed to do they just posted through it and sort of like reclaim their honor which was like they had posted i think it was sort of disingenuous the way they said

we you know we forked this and didn't mention that we also had forked this other thing but they had put out a video three months prior to this launch oh really saying that saying exactly what it is yeah so it's not like there was a history of misleading people about what their product was yeah and I mean in AI there have been a number of those where later there's been a question about, like, who owns, like, stability? AI went through a whole thing with this with, like,

who owns the IP and where does this sit and what's the relationship? Like, this seems pretty simple. It is kind of silly because it's like, we just forked this. But, I mean, I don't know. I don't, like, I mean, I guess there is a question about, like, you know, literally guess there is a question about like,

you know, literally the licenses, like certain licenses, you can fork them, but then you can't sell what you're forking. And that's the problem. But I mean, there are big businesses that like Red Hat is a huge, huge multi-billion dollar company and it's a fork of Linux. Like it's, it's, that's the Red Hat strategy. And there's a few of those. And I could see a company winning in open source AI in that way. I don't think that that's that crazy. I don't know about this specific. Yeah, I don't know.

I'm kind of, it's funny. I'm sort of generally bearish on the company purely because of the space that they're in and how competitive it is and how it it's hard to imagine that that um you know i i think that like there's a huge willingness to try new tools right now because everybody's everything's changing so quickly but um is the yc company with 500k and like a bunch of haters gonna actually win now. Because I think having the... Part of why developers love Stripe is because they have a lot of respect and admiration for the Collison brothers. And so is the average developer...

I kind of want to back Pair just to spite the haters. But I'm not like... But I think it's like these founders are probably going to be very successful. Will Pair AI be successful? Yeah, there is an interesting question. I'm not like, but I think it's like these founders are probably going to be very successful. Will pair AI be successful? Yeah, there is an interesting question. I'm very unclear. What type of organization does need an open source AI code editor?

There are lots of places where it's like, okay, why would you want open source in that particular part of your tech stack? Like, well, you know, it's flexibility around a specific thing, avoiding lock-in to a specific thing. Like, why go with Postgres as opposed to Oracle database? Well, there's a lot more flexibility that comes with that. But in the code editor space, that's usually more on the developer side,

like individual developer developer decision i think kind of unclear but yeah i think one factor is it's not like everybody like this next one i guess we do turbo i guess we do in turbo retarded gen z founders now it's like this is not new yc has always backed i won't use that same language always backed young technical founders that were just like very ambitious that we're going to do whatever it took to win yeah and the model is like proven beyond a doubt right there's been a lot of like fud lately on people being like oh yc's last six batches there's not that many unicorns it's like okay like i don't think there ever was like that you know sometimes you get breakout companies or whatever.

But I think the difference now is tech is so mainstream that these guys are coming in. They already have a YouTube channel that's super active. I think it printed out that Deleon tweet below, which is really, really, really interesting, which is like, yeah, like when the For You page and the algorithm, like these guys know how to go viral. That's clear from the way they wrote this tweet. I just quit my $270,000 job at Coinbase. Like this is clickbait and they got a ton of attention. Yeah.

But even if you wrote this tweet, you know, 10 years ago, you would not be the front page of the internet necessarily for your startup. It would be much harder to break through i'm trying to see if this guy has a cartier crash on which would be like a crazy piece to just have on because it's it's basically like you'd i don't know you'd have to spend like the entire yc check on your watch um but um yeah they definitely seem like, you know, they definitely understand going viral. Yeah. I'm bullish on these guys, bearish on Parry AI.

Yeah. But who knows where they will wind up? Yeah, if it's a real YC company, they'll pivot twice more. Exactly. They'll be a closed source code editor. Hey, actually, we didn't like being so open about what we're working on. We're just going to build software. I mean, all bets are off.

You can be non-profit and then be worth $157 billion. You don't need to... Oh, yeah, people flooding Y Combinator as if OpenAI is not a YC company. Yeah. Came directly out of YC.

Yeah. You've got to include that in the recent history. Yeah. Like. Came directly out of YC. Yeah. Yeah. You got to include that in the recent, in the recent history. Yeah. It's like the most important technology ever.

Yeah. I mean, like you can say whatever you want about the financial ownership or whatever, but like, it's clearly like,

like they made something cool that everyone uses and it's awesome. And like a lot of people have built other things based on it because of that. We love the economy so we love a for-profit organization

I am so much happier I think that if every convert every single non-profit that is doing homeless related work in LA into a for-profit and I guarantee you it solves the homeless issue in two weeks.

Seems reasonable. What else should we do? Should we do this, the longshoremen? Yeah, we can talk about that. I don't really know much about it. I know that I have some stuff stuck in the middle of the ocean. Yeah, this is not about being informed this is about

this is about um sharing opinions and you don't need to be informed to have an opinion that's true put that on the record um yeah i mean this guy just had i mean he he looks like he's a character out of he's like the the the villain out of a movie you know where like the next stage of this mutiny is like they just rebel like like secede from the Union and like the ports the ports become you know the beginning of like the new you know America riffs you're not in like you know, America riffs, but not in, like, you know. But anyways, I think this is, like, a pretty, somebody compared it to organized crime, and I think that's, like, pretty on point,

where it's effectively just, I mean, who knows, right? I think from his point of view, he's doing his job. He gets paid, like, about a million a year to represent his people. I think from his point of view he's doing his job he gets paid like about a million a year to represent his people I think I mean I think it will people quote tweeted and really this guy makes 780 K but it's like that's not that much that's less than like a thing like level one new grad these days so it's like is this guy really this I don't know I don't I'm not really buying the whole villain I think I think it ultimately backfires in a big way right because everybody's like oh yeah we actually really do need automation we shouldn't be dependent on like it does seem like a mess yeah we shouldn't be dependent on

a bunch of angry uh you know value extractors um that basically have a monopoly yeah i i i do wonder how it how it fits in with the election like the strike began october 1st election is in november there's some sort of taft-hartley thing that the that the president can do to kind of force them to go back to work which would like for four weeks for four weeks which could time up like perfectly so that you're not feeling it when you're voting essentially and then you start feeling it right when it's done. So it's just like, it's really odd timing, but yeah,

I mean, it seems like he's like pretty, pretty bullish right now on ending soon or like, you know, optimistic that it will, it will resolve. But yeah, I think Ryan Peterson has,

uh, needs to verticalize and own the ports. Otherwise, he's just going to take 20 years off his life, all the stress. He needs to own all the land within 100 miles of the water in Yemen. He needs to own the boats. He needs to privatize the Navy. He needs to own, he needs to privatize the Navy. He needs to privatize the ports. Just so he can get a good night's sleep. Yeah, let's get Flexport a Navy for sure.

I think we can probably skip this one. I don't feel the need to like throw this kid under the bus. I did think like, this is my least favorite form of ad right now is like AI generated slop. It's not AI generated though. It's not? No. It's literally just normal editing.

Really? Just movie clips and stuff, pictures. Yeah, but for some reason it felt so whack. It felt so whack compared to the, Excel was doing like handcrafted editing. Did you see the other one that launched yesterday? The one that was like developers, developers, developers, developers. Did you see that one? No.

It was Resolve AI. Did you see this? This one was, this one is great. See this is good. Yeah this is good right? This is the same format, it's just real. See this is the same format though as the original Founders Fund Hype Reel something that actually makes people's lives better. Courage without genius might not get you where you need to go. See, this is the same format, though, as the original Founders Fund hype reel, which we copied at Capital, and then a bunch of other people, and now it's in the Zeitgeist,

and now the format's dead. It is. So sorry to whoever. Did you edit that video for Founders Fund? No, it was Mike Petriano. Yeah, Mike did a great thing. He did. We remixed it was Mike Petriano. Yeah, Mike did a great thing. He did. We remixed it. He created a monster.

And then it just like, yeah, it's done. I mean, it's a very fun format. I just wouldn't do it as a company today. Yeah, I mean, I guess the question is like, how do you break through? I mean, this launch for this, what's it called? Rewind? Yeah, Resolve AI. I mean, it's like, what's it called, rewind?

Yeah, resolve AI, it's, I mean, it's like, it would be pretty hard to get a million views on your launch video otherwise, or like your launch something, so like, what do you do other than just like, a vibe reel that can go viral on Dax? It's hard. Build something great. Yeah, takes time.

Copy an open source project. Got and open source yeah create a controversy honestly no video needed yes yeah be the villain yeah the heel be the heel or not the face that's funny oh well i don't know okay do we want to talk about the David Center event? Yeah. Where was it? So funny. So Austin, Texas, amazing space that was basically, it's basically like a hotel that is kind of like, I mean, it has sort of like some continuous use for some, I think, foundation out there but founders podcasts and business breakdown hosted an event there was like a hundred and twenty ish people there

no other people on the property which was cool so you'd just be like you know doing something random at the gym you'd strike up a conversation, et cetera. Amazing, amazing group of people. I would say felt like at least 10% of the people there had a net worth of over a billion dollars, which is like hard to get in the same sort of like, you know, acre that often. He's very good at doing that, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think, and the funny thing,

this story came up a few times but um i i at capital we were one of the first advertisers of founders podcast really um and at the time it's so funny what like two years does i think we paid him like 5 000 for the quarter wow and now it's it's like you need to be doing like a seven figure multi-year deal to even enter the conversation. And he's probably going to be like, yeah, it's not a fit. But anyways, David's amazing. Matt, the other host, is awesome too. It was an interesting situation because it was clear like like there were some really great panels but it was

almost like the panels were just like dead time because the second you'd leave a panel and just start talking there were so many great people and David kept saying like I want to do a conference with no panels yeah it's just like the space which I think is is great done've done that. It works well. Yeah. And yeah, ultimately, I think David left the weekend being like, I'm not, I don't even, I don't think he's ever going to do one again. But it was funny because,

because he just would rather host a group of people. I think the retreat with no content is fine. Yeah. Yeah, maybe. But it was almost, I told him, you should have a retreat for your audience. Yep.

And don't even go. No. Because there's so much value in just connecting with other people that are like-minded. And so you phone in and do your panel. Hey, everyone, I'm so happy that you guys are all together. He's on the Venetian Islands or whatever. Because the challenge is it's really enjoyable for everyone except for him who's basically like

48 hour period where people are grabbing him and all this stuff but anyways I think people were generally respectful it was good it was pretty funny like almost people that I was hanging out with

Jackson Dahl, Bryce almost you know people that i was hanging out with um jackson doll bryce from indy vc justin mares uh jeremy gaffon david perel like um jorgensen people like that um i don't think any one of those people like had more than like a single one or two drinks the entire weekend even though there's an open bar like the entire time so it was interesting to to really see like the death of alcohol like pretty you know um pretty pretty plainly the only people that were getting absolutely hammered was um uh was some of the old guard uh which was fun i was asking them you know this this guy's like borderline like blacked out only person that I think was truly drunk in the whole event on Friday night, and I was like, how does it feel

to just be old and just loaded? And he's just like laughing. And he's like, yeah, like dude, you busted your ass for four decades, you deserve to be the only person that's blacked out here. And I actually appreciate it. Yeah, everyone else is still on the hunt. Yeah, yeah.

Nobody's got time to be hungover tomorrow. That's fine. But yeah, fantastic event. And David, when you listen to this, host a retreat where you're not there. You're not there. Call in from the Venetian Isles. I think this community would appreciate it.

I know a lot of people came out of it. I mean, I was in the, it's funny, at the very end, I was staying an extra night in Austin to see a portfolio founder the next day. And this guy's like, hey, does anybody want to split an Uber? And I'm going downtown. I was like, sure, let's do do it and we get in the car wasn't really like you know we i'd never met the guy that weekend we were talking about what we what um

what what each of us do and he's like oh yeah i run like a six billion dollar hedge fund you know in london you know it's just like so it's like that that quality of people. But anyways, if it happens again, I'll be back. There needed to be, everybody there was very Excel curious or already an active user. A DAU. We measure our customer base in DAUs, not traditional sales volume. But yeah, that was great um the other thing over the weekend i feel like i kept opening my phone and people would be talking about uh

excel in my mentions uh do we want to talk about that yeah sure screenshot i sent you um so Um, so, um, so anyways, we got our first, uh, honest review of XL nicotine pouches from Capital Cowboy on X. He says, for anyone curious, here's my honest review of XL. Better, smoother flavor than any Zin I've had. Lasts significantly longer too. Had my cousin that can't handle Nick upset stomach at three milligrams try these and he said it you got all the buzz without the

stomach issues so that is the power of Excel obviously I asked him have you noticed anything different with your returns. Most users report improvements after using Excel. And Cowboy said, I actually got a promotion after using Excel, no joke. And he said his buddy Mark got a promotion as well. And Mark said,

using it and got a promotion a week after switching to the branch, shit works. And I said, all it did, all it did was make you more you right because you on nicotine is you on your best day right it's you on 100% sleep score you know fully locked in so anyways the reactions have been reactions have been great. If you're a user and you have any comments, feedbacks, product suggestions,

or if you're interested in debt financing through the Excel brand, reach out. Yeah, sounds good. Should we do this viral chain letter? I think this thing is so funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I have to start by saying I actually don't know if I have a copy of this one.

So a bunch of celebrities have been sharing a copypasta text meme on their Instagrams, and it says, Goodbye Meta AI. Please note, an attorney has advised us

to put this on. Failure to do so may result in legal consequences. As Meta is now a public entity, all, space, space, all members must post a similar statement. If you do not post at least once, it will be assumed you are okay with them using your information and photos. I do not give Meta or anyone else permission to use any of my personal data profile information or photos and then the amazing thing is that is that uh meta has has appended see why fact checkers say this is false they added the fact check like modal like over it to just be like just just so you know, this is misinformation.

It's just so funny. Tom Brady posted it. Really? Yeah. Julianne Moore and a bunch of other people. And it's just so funny. It's so boomer. I remember this happening at the dawn of Facebook, like maybe 10 years ago.

And it still happens. It would be like they change the terms of service. One schizo person posts this ramble. Somebody posts just like an absolute ramble yeah and then it somehow picks up and i only saw it on honestly shout out to the people that i follow because i only saw one person post it oh unironically unironically and that guy formerly ran a public company oh my, my God. So that was a bit concerning to me because I, yeah, I honestly, yeah, I. I mean, it's just like I get being a boomer and not understanding how the Internet works and being confused and stuff.

But I would just rewrite it. A, rewrite it, but B, like, is there any scenario as a public company where it's like, this is like the equivalent of, I don't know, like holding up a sign outside of the White House and just being like, I want you to, you know. It just makes no sense how this would be like legally binding or any sort of like way to enter. On an ephemeral story. Yeah, yeah. On an ephemeral story. How is this at all the way that you interact with a company, right? It's like leaving a review on a restaurant and expecting that to be like legally binding somehow.

It's funny because if people are scraping your profile for data, which they are, to train models, the AI, like the scraper, shows up at John Coogan, and they just start sniffing around. And then they see, oh, you added a story highlight, and three months ago he posted this, and the scraper goes, hmm, okay, let's get out of here. Let's get out of here. This person is really stupid. Or Meta is just like, who stores the data?

What if it actually winds up working? Because the AI is like, oh, yeah, we don't want to train on people that, you know. That could really open up some liability. Are this gullible? We don't want to train on this people. But Meta, who already hosts all your data and tracks every single thing you do on the app to use. And they're like, yeah, yeah, this guy's big, big no-no on this guy. At the same time, like, the fact that this keeps happening does say something about humanity, but also it's like it should be somewhat of a wake-up call to Meta and, like, the actual employees there. But, like like your consumers don't understand you at all yeah you need to probably do better to educate them about how

things work which is which is why i'm long on zuck's personal conquest yeah and value creation yeah and i'm a fan of him, I'm short on his public image because I think him getting cocky again and wearing shirts that say Zuck is inevitable, and Meta still being basically gonna be at the epicenter of all this drama around AI and generated content and all this stuff is like very short his uh public image i think he enjoyed like a sort of temporary sort of um you know yeah basically two-year period i do want him

to mix it up because it's like so he's this like fashion god now and he's wearing like streetwear and like baggy t-shirts and valor but yeah uh but like there is a way for him to wear like an impeccable suit yeah and and and apply the same the same thought process yeah you have looking to looking fantastic but it's just in a suit yeah and just do i mean we just say that because it'd be good for of course but like like like it is interesting that like he's he's applied like i i now take fashion seriously but i only apply it in this one very narrow like yeah like section of fashion like i want to see him look as fashionable but also in a suit or also in a variety of things yeah just like dress your age just like have yeah yeah have some more like reach and some and i think if he broadens out a little

bit he can class it up or dress it down and he'll have more flexibility there yeah he clearly found like a wheelhouse and he's just like doubling down on that and he's gotten really good at it algorithm yeah he's literally like an algorithm he's like wow they liked when i wakeboard so they didn't like when i wakeboarded with all the sunscreen but when i wakeboard so they didn't like when i wakeboarded with all the sunscreen but when i wakeboard and i hold a flag yeah people like that he's a little bit of a filter i'm gonna i'm okay then if if people like flags and wakeboarding they probably like beef i'm gonna show them my cattle ranch right and then and then they're like oh i wore a watch and they like that so i'm going to get a more expensive watch like an even even bigger hitter of a piece yeah but that only

that goes so like that that you eventually get a negative reaction to that sort of doubling doubling down on everything yeah i wonder where that'll come from. I mean, he's done a fantastic job at being apolitical. To me, the shirt, the Amiri shirt that says Zuck is inevitable is, it's like, dude, you're obviously inevitable, you're a force. You don't need to, you telling people you're inevitable is cringe. People will already say that behind your back.

Yeah, it's like a victory lap. Like, for what reason? Just deliver returns. I can't use sunglasses without logging into your Facebook. Deliver returns to shareholders. That's the only thing that matters. When the stock eventually drops, people will be,

they'll take pictures of that shirt and make it say like, you know, $500 billion market cap is inevitable. You know, down from. Do you think it was like just a funny joke? Do you think there's something to that is it funny it might be funny the if you've got to ask yourself is it funny so every time i say i take something too far yeah i break character so so what i think that there's always this layer of humor that is different when it's coming

from like somewhat as powerful as Zuck or Elon. I keep thinking about, for years I was like, I love Elon, but man, these childlike, the childlike humor is just not hitting with me. The 69, 420 is just not funny to me until he was in this interview with the BBC reporter and he says, do you like BBC? And it was so stupid. It's such a stupid joke. But he was laughing super hard and I was like, this is actually hilarious. Not because asking a BBC reporter, do you like BBC, is that funny?

It's funny because it's the world's richest man who's super powerful asking a reporter that. The context matters. And so, yeah, this one, I'm not sure if that's funny. Here's what would be funny to me. If Zuck was on his hydrofoil wakeboard you know doing his thing in his meta glasses and then in the scenery and he's in kawaii or whatever he's in his retreat and on the hillside behind him it's literally like using a lawnmower like carved into the grass it says like zuck is inevitable and it's not like so front and center that would be funny because

seeing that image of him just like riding his little like hydrofoil thing and then you're like wait did he he carved in like a football field of grass like zuck is inevitable like that's that's cool that's ridiculous make a monument yeah or yeah so yeah zuck uh when you listen to this make monuments he i mean he made a monument in his of his wife oh yeah that was a piece yeah so he's gonna do some stuff i don't know i think i respect zuck yeah i i don't know where there's there's just a difference though and like what I'm talking about is like respect versus likability and I'll always respect him

I've gone through periods where I sort of like him and I don't like him and not that it matters but for him he clearly cares about what people think about him so my advice would be dial it back. I just think people, he has a PR team around him and image consultants and stylists and stuff like that.

Just be more creative. Yeah, definitely needs more breadth to the to the stunts and what not more more humor and more fun more fun