TED Talks Daily - A master chef's take on food, culture and community | Marcus Samuelsson

Episode Date: June 19, 2024

The secret magic of good food is that it brings people and cultures closer together. Chef Marcus Samuelsson taps into that magic at his acclaimed restaurants and through his cross-cultural approach to cooking. In conversation with art curator Thelma Golden, he expands on the rich fusion of modern Black cuisine and how each bite is a celebration of the diverse, creative and joyful power of food. (Visit ted.com/membership to support TED today and join more exclusive events like this one.)

TED Audio Collective. You're listening to TED Talks Daily, where we bring you new ideas to spark your curiosity every day. I'm your host, Elise Hu. Today, a meaty conversation about food. Global culinary icon Marcus Samuelson sits down with Thelma Golden, the chief curator of the Studio Museum in Harlem, to talk through our cultural connections with food and the way cooking can tell a story. In this case, Marcus's own story and expression of his Black identity.

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Hello. It is so fantastic to be here with the TED community and here with you, Marcus, here in Chelsea at Haben-Mar to talk about food for good. So I'm so excited for this conversation because there's never a moment when your story and the way in which you think about food isn't inspiring. So let's start with your story. How did you get here today? Yeah, well, first of all, I'm extremely excited to be part of this dialogue and also to do with you, Thelma, that dear, dear friend of mine, but also somebody that I admire in all things culture and sometimes food. I value your opinion on food. Yes. I appreciate that.

It's not my expertise, though. No. It's your space. Yeah. You know, I was born in Ethiopia, and I realized I always start with that. But like all our journeys, it's not linear i was adopted and my mother and i and my sister we had tuberculosis and she took us from this tiny village to the capital but not only to the capital to the hospital where um she passed away but survived. So that walk of 75 miles with two kids.

Little kids. Little kids. I always ask myself, what did we eat? And my sister and I, we talked about this constantly. She never thought about what we ate. I say that because I think our journeys as people, even before we start thinking about it, could have impact on food. So I realized that after asking a lot, it must have been this chickpea flour called shiro, which is really

porridge. So my journey on food starts somewhere there on that walk from Abracadabra to addis i think we had dried nuts chickpeas dried injera all things that are great when you travel and you can kind of just bring with you we would consider them snacks today but this is something that you eat throughout the continent. It could be your daily meal. Once I got to Sweden, you know, and I went just an eight-hour ride. I went from being Kasahunseguy, which is my birth name, to Marcus Samuelsson. I traded injera, shiro, and berbere for herring, salmon, and mackerel. I still don't know which one I like the most. But the big influence for me on food was my grandmother.

And my mom was a decent cook. But my grandmother was an amazing cook. Grandmother Helga. Helga, absolutely. And it wasn't just what we ate, but it was how she perceived the seasonality and how a food existed in her space. So there was always a foraging season of something. There was always a pickling and preserving time. What did she preserve and pickle? Mushrooms, herring, berries, apple jam. The plum jam was

always by the plum that had fallen down you're full you got to know this that's what she told us you can't like you can't give away the plums that already fallen down they were for us for plum jam something you had to know but the plums in the tree that was really nice you can give to the neighbor over here for example there was rules with what food we gave away, what we kept. So anyway, food existed at early days, never around luxury, but more around, this is what we do. I don't remember buying a lot of food with my grandmother. Of course she went to the store, but not with us.

Most of the time, it was food that we made. It was a craftsmanship around food and it seems like in the home of your grandparents there was also a deep respect for nature right like they were living deeply attached to the land can you talk about that in terms of the way you continue to think about space and land you know the funny thing with my grandparents you know Sweden wasn't directly involved in the second world war would have but it impacted right and they grew up very poor so all the things that we put on our social media today I'm going foraging upstate or I'm pickling and I'm doing this those were necessities she didn't cure salmon because she thought it was

a better take she did it because she had to she didn't smoke her mackerel because it was the new way to get a taste it was a necessity to keep it three four five days longer right that cod soup on the third day you know what i mean that was the stress to me so nature became the free kind of whole food if you want right and if you didn't use it you weren't smart so just understanding food from that level uh had was not around restaurant it was always around just food as something that was part of what you did. You know, then, again, being adopted, when you think about identity in food, early on, all the food that we had was Swedish food.

Postal Swedish food, because that's where we grew up. Eventually, as I started to have weekend jobs in restaurants, it was kind of French-Swedish food. But my identity around where I was from and where does Ethiopian food fit into this was kind of lost on me. around other creatives, chefs of color, artists of color, creators of colors, the identity around their own identity and the work, it's almost always a search where you kind of go in and out of ideas that are traditional and how do you go back to your food? Where do you see yourself in food?

And I never saw or had a conversation around black food or the identity around it so for me i went to art you know my biggest sort of idols at the time were prince and chan michelle bas. I was like, how can this young artist live and exist in the world of art and link street and gallery? And that for me, if he could do it, maybe one day I could do it in food. Right, as a chef. So thinking about food memories, I know you have some spice here. Can you talk about what it means to think about food memories, I know you have some spice here. Can you talk about what it means to think

about food as a way that you understand your journey, your identity? Well, I think when you think about Black food in particular, with the continent in mind, it's almost three chapters. The first chapter is the origin where most of our food came from, right? We were early on the continent of, you know, trading food, traveling with food. A lot of the grains like I have here, I have Teff, one of the oldest grains in the world, or Fonio, for example, old, old grains. You think about things like shiro, turmeric, satar, or berbere throughout the region of Africa, northern Africa, east Africa, food in terms of it was currency, spices was currency. These incredible markets of Marrakesh or um cairo these were trading places and so much of the identity and so much of the food came from the continent then when colonization

happened all the great food that comes from the continent, we now have to start thinking about through European lips. And this still sticks with us, right? When we think about a great coffee, we hear it through a French roast or Italian roast versus the origin of Ethiopia, for example. When we think about a great Belgian chocolate, you know, we don't think about it that the cocoa bean is from Ghana. It's not until the last five, 10 years where we're kind of reshaping that. But obviously, through all things food today, it's such a major machine, it's such a major economy.

So over the last 100 years, we've been taught that the great chocolate comes from Belgium and the great so-and-so comes from France. Getting that identity back, this is what I think present and future work is about. If we think about good food, it has to be linked to origin, identity. And how do we rephrase this and reshape this that the origin of the place actually gets acknowledged? And we're going to come back to that. The other part that obviously black food from the continents has gone through was, you know, when I was coming up, the way people talk about food from Africa was very often through families. So this identity around food was just something that we could help through aid. It's not the only way, of course, that we engage in food in Africa. So it's all of this misconception of one experience that we as creatives, as chefs,

today we almost have to share and keep telling a story in order. So the value proposition from the receiver, wherever they are, seizes through the right lens. But also in the continent, right? Why would I go into food today if there's no value proposition? But if we value cocoa beans and the value of a coffee farm, that talent stays in the continent and says, hey, this is as valuable as working for Microsoft. And it seems, you know, the name of this talk today is food for good, but it seems that that narrative shift has been a part of your work as a chef from the beginning. So how did you become a chef? And maybe while we're saying that, do you want to eat? Yeah, let's bring in some food.

Yeah, absolutely. So I hope this audience, I wish you all could smell and see all that is here. But Marcus, let's talk about what we're having. Well, we're going to have a simple dish that all hints and links back to the continent. And I think when you think about modern black and modern food throughout the continent, it will taste and look like something like this. This is a restaurant food. If you eat locally anywhere on the continent, it will be much more regional and not so much fuss around it the way we do as chefs. But here you have a seared bass that we dip in teflon.

So again, the grain from Ethiopia. But again, just a light touch we use a fermented corn puree which is eaten all throughout africa whether you call it you know you think about ugali in kenya pop in south africa or almost the way we think about grits, right? So corn is such a big key to us, right? I'm just going to have a little nice salsa that we use cucumber, simple textures in the salsa. We have beautiful couscous, right?

These are all things that why not throwing some fresh herbs on top and a little bit of berberi oil just to drizzle. But again again always thinking about when i played positive negative space really creating this dramatic colors right and you know my ethiopian family will be like how come you don't put more plate on the food what is this what is the negative space for but as we evolve into modern exciting food this is how if you go to acra today adis today legos in the restaurant uh and a modern restaurant this is a similar dish that you could

smell eat and taste doesn't that look good it's fantastic all right you know what that's yours that's for you thank you that's all you thank So, Marcus, can you I want you to answer the question first of how you became a chef. But then I want you, as you hinted and as I know this dish represents for you to talk about this idea of modern black and what that means. But start with first how you became a chef. Well, I have only had two major passions in my life cooking and playing soccer and i was completely shocked when i didn't become a soccer soccer star but i took the same energy of training and working hard into the food game but i learned a lot you know around being black in sweden for me the blessings of being black in Sweden was really

about clarity of my options clarity of being a kid that had to perceive excellence right away it gave me clarity when my other co-chefs signed out I'm like I'm not even started

yet so that clarity gave me experiences and I got scholarships very early on I traveled to Japan just lived with a family I didn't know what a mom it was which you have a mom in this dish until I went to Japan I got a scholarship to live in Switzerland for two years right completely game-changing experience operating food at a hotel in French and German and being 19 20 years old so I was like oh I belong once I knew that I could do this abroad on multiple languages I'm like let's go three-star Michelin and it took me a year to get to France the three-star Michelin restaurant and I realized like this is going to be my life

but i noticed right there were japanese kids there working there was obviously european kids even some south americans but no black and and and anywhere from dining room to the kitchen nowhere so front of the house front of the house. Front of the house. None. So for me, it was really about where do I fit into this as a young kid? And it was very clear. He told to me that one day my chef said, what do you want to do? I said, I want to open a restaurant such as yours. And he just looked at me and said it's not possible. There will never be a restaurant owned by a Black person with those

ambitions supported by a customer. And I said, well, I can't lower my dream or ambition. He said, well, I don't know what to tell you. You can work in a restaurant, but you cannot own one. And that jump off point really became a driving force for me to leave and eventually come to the United States and New York City. And who knew what would happen, but I just knew that I could add value. I've proven it to myself and to my family. And that's how I got to New York. And when you got to New York, in many ways, that seems to be also where you began thinking about the kind of food journey and the food stories and the food narratives that you wanted to be involved with. I've always imagined deeply the way in which you represent hybridity in such a fantastic way, right? You think about the ways in which you have brought the many pieces

of your life and your culture together in food, but also the way you've been curious in traveling the world to see and engage with food. So can you talk about hybridity as a way to talk about your concept of modern Black and the way in which it's evidenced in these films? Tell us about. Well, when I got to New York, I was also extremely fortunate because I was cooking and met other Black creatives. And little did I know that these creatives would be, you know, icons in their industrys, having the opportunity to talk to you, meeting people like Sanford Biggers, that wasn't in my field, but they were on a journey, and they were never linear with their work, right? I remember a night with Sanford, he's like,

I just came back from Russiaussia i've been to russia i went to japan well i went to japan and he did it as an artist and his work coming back with these incredible trees and it was his true black version of himself but through a lens that was worldly right and wait a minute i as a another black person that is not linear is not it's my version and meeting people that have had similar journeys but yet very different and different expressions just inspired me so much but also being around music like being around you know tribe called Tribe Called Quest, for example. You know, Jerobe, that was in the band, then left the band for cooking. So being around these people that were similar in age, doing, talking about a modern blackness

that obviously had roots in Africa, but also in the migration, but also in music and art almost combining, what would that taste like? And coming to America where you thought, you were told all Black food was Southern food, but we know as soul food, and I love Southern food, but it wasn't the only story that we could tell, right? When I went to a Haitian restaurant that I loved in Brooklyn, there was Jon Jon rice, there were picles.

When I went to a Jamaican restaurant, there were these incredible foods like aque and jerk, not telling the story of the migration. And I loved both. So being here in New York showed me that Blackness doesn't have to be one way. Yet through food, the way the media received it, they wanted to see us through one way, which is very often that when you don't have a majority culture, you can accept a minority culture through one lens. Tell us about this dish well i think one of my favorite things to eat is

beef tatar the beef tatar of this dish has really origin in my wife's tribe garage where you make a warm beef tatar and this is really what you have. It's a warm beef tartare with some fresh cheese and some pickled onions and dried injera bread again. And food, modern food to me, should be both tribal and modern. Why? Right? Because that's how we live our lives today, right?

Like when you think about identity culture, you can't talk about the continent without thinking about tribes. Right. The tribes are kind of the base. today right like we when you think about identity culture you can't talk about the continent we're not not thinking about tribes right the tribes are kind of the base and then art music dance spirituality is comes out of that right you can be one tribe and you can have many spiritualities but in terms of dress code food culture how you celebrate weddings are all done through that structure so i'm very much inspired by the tribes in africa it doesn't behold me to one is better than other but when i ask a fellow african where you're from and he or she might say nigeria or

would say senegal second question is what tribe? If I would ask you a European person, like where are you from? Say England. Okay, then I would ask what city? Maybe third, I would ask what soccer team do you like, which is a form of tribalism, right? But when it comes to the continent, the tribe directs so much what we eat, when we eat it,

and how we celebrate it. So that's kind of the core here with work of this festive dish out of the garage. And then we bring in these chips that not exist that way, right? So they're long, they're static. Can you talk about these chips? Because I think that's, you know, a perfect example of the kind of hybridity right so your interest in tap yeah that then has led to a thinking about how to use it right both in ways that honor their tradition culturally but also make it new one other thing you have to be as black creative you have to be your own cheerleader you have to be your own flavor flame because there's nothing out there to tell you you're heading in the right direction right when you see terms and oh i just had this great italian

dish or you know the way they do that french cooking over there is amazing we don't have those reference points coming to us through media right so you have to actually create that yourself and sometimes you don't know if you're in your right direction, but you see then you have to create this friendship and colleagues that are really helping and part of the editing process, right? But when I eat Teff from the most sour, fresh form, I always think about what would this be like dried like? And then you start seeing Teff ships coming up. Like, what if I stretch this? What if this looks a little bit more like an Alvin Ailey show?

Like the way the ballerinas stretch, right? What if I would look at the structure of a Julia Moreno painting where it's like stretched, you know? So this is kind of the duality. When I listen to Burn a Boy or when I listen to, let's say, a Fela Kuti, I see the linkage together. It's not so much one was done in the 80s or 70s and one is done in the 2020s. It's I hear the tonality of both the linkage same thing with food and that's why music and art is such a good guidance for me because art great art it's past present future great music is past present

future and with food if we don't know our past how are we going to know if it's delicious or not how are we going to know the reference point delicious or not? How are we going to know the reference point? We know this in French cooking and in Italian cooking, but we don't know that about the continent. And that's what we're here to unlock. And how would you know what's good food if you don't even know the past and the present? And now back to the episode. What does that mean for you? And why is that such an animating sort of idea in the work that you are doing in your own artistry as a chef, in the restaurants that you've created in the world and the ways that I know you're interacting and thoughts around the future of food and the ways in which we understand that? Well, there's several. Well, the first is I want young Africans to feel like this is a field you

can go into. This is a field that has value. This is not just a labor of anonymous laborers where there's no value proposition on the other end. So if you're a young cook in Uganda, Ethiopia, Nigeria, this is the field that we got you. And there's an arch. And here's what this trace looked like. But on the other end too, is what can we from the West learn from the continent? Eating based on a spiritual compass,

knowing how sometimes to fast, holding up certain animal protein, thinking about how to break fast. How do we celebrate that? These are all things that we need. I mean, we have the crisis here in terms of you think about eating too much red meat. We're thinking about green and the environment, right? So we are all collectively in need for eating better

and have better systems within food that is all linkage, right? Both for the environment, but also for our own body and health, right? So much of the world's superfood is in Africa. We talk about Fonion Teff, but there are many, Amaran, Moringa, and so on, right? So with everything else, with technology or with other modern teams, we go into depth of finding the origin, honoring the origin, and then that forms us to move forward. In food, we have taken food from Africa without actually paying enough respect and tribute back. And why should anyone value their land and properties when there's no value proposition on growing these things?

Even in the most high-tech food we can think about today, let's just think about something like a Beyond Burger or an Impossible Burger, right? Well, a lot of those modern patties are based with chickpeas. Well, Africa got some of the largest, it's one of the best places in the world with chickpeas, for example. So if you're a chickpea farmer today in Africa and living off $2 a day,

if you get the right value proposition of your teff, of your chickpeas, maybe you can live on $20 a a day doesn't sound like a lot but it's game-changing for that fam there is a value proposition in all the different steps but it's also something here that we can learn up we want to pay the right price we're talking about that constantly here we want to make sure that we honor where it comes from. We also want to eat good or more delicious. And we don't know how delicious it is until we kind of go through all the options and how it got to us. Your work has been a lot about just opening people to new flavors, right?

And allowing in your restaurants, you're constantly experimenting and bringing these flavors from Africa, from the world, you know, in these incredible collisions often. And that's where, for me, it always seems the base of your artistry is, right? Being able to sort of think about how to put things together. Yeah. Why? First of all, I think I've been extremely blessed by having my family and mentors around me, family members, but non-family members that said, hey, you know what? We're going to bet on you. And I met some of the most amazing people in food, like Leah Chase, that broke barriers when it comes to dining in America, color barriers, right? And when you meet someone like Leah, that owns the UK in New Orleans, only been in business for 83 years and still going.

It wasn't so much about the food. I mean, her restaurant is really about is a gathering spot. civil rights movements, opportunities like myself being here in this country, that opens the door of opportunity for black chefs across the world. So if I've got an opportunity to travel and live out my dream, I have to kind of bring people into this space and open up other opportunities.

So food, I think food can get even better if you invite more people to the parties. For so many years, a chef had to come from France or cook French food. It had to be a man and sometimes almost always angry. Well, that's a small, slim space to look at greatness, right? Why not open it up? I love food and I love dining. So why not open up the door and make it more inspiring for a larger scale?

Right. You think about the World Cup. We think about big things that we want to celebrate. NBA. It's better because of the larger pie is part of it. Not better because it's narrower. So I love food. I love my trade and I know we can do better. So when I have an opportunity to open a Red Rooster or a Hob Mar, open kitchens. Closeness to the guests and who cooks it. If the customers come up and talk about, you know, what they like and didn't like,

if they want to create this close relationship with a chef, watching a chef on a journey like we have here, incredible Fariel, that, you know, origin in Ethiopia, but also lived in America for a long time. If you want to talk to her, well, she's right there. Before, when I started, the kitchen was this hole that you're never supposed to peek into, and it was anonymous label. Same thing at Red Rooster.

It's an open space that it's a back and forth that you can have a dialogue. And I think that food gets better the more people leans in, not better because it's held in a certain zip code. And so really, I want to ask you about you have restaurants all around the world, but I know Harlem is very close to your heart, close to our heart. And so can you talk about the inspiration that Harlem is for you? Harlem is truly everything. I think I think about Harlem as the black Mecca for culture. It's the place where if you're an author in South Africa, you want to come to Schomburg or have a dialogue with the Studio Museum to show your work. If you're a singer, you know, like Temps in Nigeria or for the world, she's going to come to the Apollo and perform, right?

So it becomes really through its history and generations of intellectuals and incredible people like James Baldwin and Maya Angelou and the list goes on and on, right? And the other thing that Harlem has, and institutions do matter. We have them both in people and in buildings. Just within a five-minute walk or 10-minute walk, you can go from the Abyssinia to YMCA to Schaumburg to Apollo to the Studio Museum, but you also meet the people that are working. So all of the people of Harlem, the institutions, informed me really before I got to Harlem, like, this is a great place. This is where great Black culture come from. And now it's our job to take that

to the next level, to both aspire and inspire the next generation. And there's a Harlem everywhere, right? In Berlin, in Cape Town, and some places are obvious, but there's also a Harlem in Tokyo. There's also a Black identity in Sao Paulo, in these cultures where we think about it, or in Mexico, but sometimes also where we don't think about it because there's people of color

that have creative, of course, ambitions, but they need a focal place to see like where can i show and tell and harlem is that place from i could keep talking keep eating but i want to get to some of the questions that this incredible audience has offered here george would love to know how your philosophy differs or has similarities with the slow food movement. Well, I think there's a lot of crossover and a lot of the people that I admire, like Aaliyah, for example, were part of the slow food movement when it started. And I think that they're all path about figuring out originality and broadcasting that and identity around food and broadcasting that to a larger audience. or native culture from South America, there's a lot of incredible cooking and pickling and preserving

and nature-driven things that we still actually trade off from today, whether it's barbecuing, whether it's smoking, or whether it's jerk, that we still work off today, but we're not giving enough credit to the origin. Why should that be?

Authorship. Authorship. Who gets to tell tell that story who gets to share that story authorship right we live in a time of ai where you can search for all that stuff but if we don't talk about and then document that it will never show up on ai and therefore the most what people are going to think about as the most reliable place is not reliable. So I think it's having these incredible, respectful, but also past, present, future-looking organizations. It's important that we do bring up origin, authorship, identity. Because if you don't have value around that, why should the next generation opt in? There's so many things you can be part of.

Why food? And we have to make our case and make it much more inclusive so we get to become a place that strives and people feel like, I'm part of that. I want to be part. There's a place there for me. Right.

And they want to be in it in ways that are positive. Absolutely. Here is a question from Les. I have a nine-year-old daughter and we have an amazing variety of foods where we live in Uganda. What do you advise as a good way to build a healthy life and diet for her as she grows?

And I know you have some very deep personal experience with this. Yes. First of all, I see you, Uganda. I know Ugali. We just talked about second time. We talk about Ugali here. That's amazing. Which is one of the staples in Uganda and Tanzania and Kenya as well. I think if you can, variety of your food right so bringing in seafood doing you can't do that diet bringing in um a blend between animal proteins so it's like it's not just red meat it's not just meat that has been braised for a long time so you have different type of cooking uh methods that goes into that

and of course vegetables and grains you know um having uh you know like like a couscous salad or a cracked wheat salad that you bring in tons of vegetable thing too um so i think the variety of your diet and then maybe you know i think the key for me is really flexitarian, right? Where you are, you are vegetarian leaning and maybe bringing meat two days, three days tops a week. But how would you do that? Like with her nine year old, how do you do that with children? There's no age limit to that. You know, trust me, Zion and I and even Grace, my son,

Zion is seven, almost eight. And your daughter? Daughter Grace. We cook all the time and very often it starts with no, right? But what Zion loves is going with me to the market and picking out ingredients.

So really bringing in the children early in the process, maybe two days before you're going to cook. On the first day, I say, on Saturday, we're going to go to the market, and we're going to meet Jim, our fish guy, and he sometimes throws in an extra piece of fish. It could be swordfish. Oh, how exciting, right? So it's not on Saturday at 9 o'clock because I might be too early.

It's really about building the week around that. Or if we go upstate, you know what? The pumpkin grows are amazing. And really talking about it early, you've got to make food cool to any age, whether you're a child or someone working in an office. You've got to find a way to engage and really talk to your children about it and not just presenting the food, cooking food, include them in the process.

Thank you. This is from Dana. We're sitting in Havan Mar. And the question is, how do you create the vibe in all of your restaurants? There's always a good vibe in a Marcus Samuelson restaurant. Well, I would say one of the great things about black culture and African culture is that regardless of the moment, the energy is always high. It's always lit.

Whether, you know, if you've never been to a funeral in Africa, it's always lit whether you know if you've never been to a funeral in Africa it's hard but it's always through music so that level of joy that is truly in and of black culture you see it in our music

you see it in our culture that's something I want to share with our audience. It's not just for all, it's of Black culture, but it's for everyone. When you enter the space of Red Rooster, it's a celebration of maybe you weren't welcome at other places. Maybe you had the questions,

will there be Black people seat at the table? Will there be a Black server? All those silent questions that we as Black professional women ask ourselves, will this server come to my table? None of that will happen at our restaurant. You are here as a guest and we're going to celebrate you. We start that off with high-level energy. Because this might be the only time you come to one of our restaurants.

We want you to have that experience. So that is baked in the cake. Have to be. All the all the spaces you create all the spaces absolutely how do you start the process of thinking about how you get to that well i i'm i'm very slow in my process you know red rooster took eight years uh how mar took four years, which was fast. But it starts very often through artists. You know, like here, we have the luxury to talk to you, but also to our dear friend, Derek Adams, that has made this bespoke, incredible Black Mermaid work here.

And Derek and I, we stood here in an empty location here in New York and we talked about water I knew that was an important part and the dual identity about Nordic and Africa and he came back and said it should be about black mermaids once he had the mermaids then that decided the shape it wasn't just Derek hanging his art right that's derrick's identity and his thought process around the mermaid has been the leading force of creativity for us as the rest so knowing going into space knowing that you don't have all the answers but working with incredible talented people that are think about it a different lens but with a similar goal. So real collaboration.

Real collaboration. In creating that. Yeah. So from Fernando, how can chefs navigate the delicate balance between culinary innovation and cultural preservation, especially in light of controversy surrounding the interpretation and adaptation of traditional dishes by foreign chefs?

I think that, first of all, an amazing question. Very hard space. I think that when you create, you have to separate home food, traditional food, and restaurant food. You have to think about a restaurant as Broadway. You're putting on a show, you're coming from a place that the chef and that restaurant's identity decides where you're going to go in this play. A restaurant is a gathering spot where you're talking about what have you been inspired by? What do you want to share? It's not a place a la a museum or a library where you're kind of trying to preserve and present. It could be, but the restaurants in the way I think about it, it's not from the authentic

point of view of only originality. I want to respect where it came from, but i also want to show we are going through this process this is why i talk a lot about black modern it's not a place where it's only backwards right that's why i think music is so amazing because it allows us to see new version hear new versions it's still of the continent. It's still of Black creatives. And music throughout has helped us to understand this. You know, like you think about gospel to jazz to R&B to funk to hip-hop to Afrobeat, right? It's all sounds that comes out of Black culture that is out of joy and

out of all the moments sometimes when we go through tough times, but it guides us through. And I think the same with food, but there are evolution in it. And it's almost like a five to a 10-year peg around that. Same with food. We evolved. We can be both tribal and tech. We can be this, I feel like as a Black modern individual living in the world, living as close to Addis, as Stockholm, Frankfurt to New York.

It's not, when we present our restaurant in Addis on the 47th floor. Which opened when? In November of 23. It was never about serving traditional Ethiopian food. That building by itself is such a beacon. It's really telling Ethiopia, here's where we're going.

And you are part of this journey. And the young chefs cooking in this kitchen, they are also part of a journey. You come back three years later, you're going to see them out in the world. Thank you. From Patrick, what's your basic rule for how to combine the breadth of ingredients to end up with an interesting meal? Well, I think it's not about forcing the interesting.

It's really one of the beauty of being a chef is that the craftsmanship, just the basic fundamental takes a long time. And that's the beauty of being a chef is that the craftsmanship, just the basic fundamental, takes a long time. And that's the beauty because you have to do it a lot. Once you have the basic fundamental of cooking, now you can mix and match the way you understood, which is both traditional and has a level of uniqueness, right? But without having that, that's why I feel sorry for young chefs that are so fast, just want to push through it. That's not where the great craftsmanship is going to come from. It's going to come from repetition.

You know, when you look at amazing artists, even amazing filmmakers, some of the best work is somewhere between 70 and 80. You know, you think about Scorsese still making incredible movies, you know, and I look at amazing artists, right? It's not because how fast you're running on a duet. The better you get at your craft.

So for me, it's about being passionate and being fascinated at the craft at the same time. Go through the blend of passion and fascination. You will evolve. And if you evolve, great stuff will come. If you only want to get there fast, you can have hits and it can work for a moment, but you have to constantly fall in love with your craft. Constantly be curious about yourself and the craft and the team that you want to kind of build around you.

And I, you know, my father was a tribe leader in Ethiopia. Watching and engaging with the tribe, not understanding the language, but understanding how, watching how he moved people, fascinates me. Yes. From Kat, how do you define your personality through your dishes?

I don't think there's separation. I mean, I'm the most fluent when it takes my food. I never, maybe it's because I've been an immigrant six times. Language, I always mix them up. Sometimes it can be German, sometimes it can be Swedish, sometimes it can be English, of course.

But if you want to know who I am, taste the food. I think also, if I might answer this, I think also your dishes also give us a view into the different aspects of your journey, right? You have different moments in the decades that I've known you there, you know, your interest in certain ingredients, in the dishes you've made really have been an indication of a moment, right? Where you've been exploring and investing, thinking about the past, but also thinking very much about the future. You know, I think now, you know, some of these plates remind me a little bit of maybe a hint of something that you made 20 years ago, but then I

also know it's a hint of something you're going to make 20 years from now. Oh and that's the joy of of being uh in a place where you can trust the craftsmanship but also being introduced to new things and new ways i'm when i go to the continent of africa i'm still learning how to eat in a new way right like if you speak to anyone from Ghana or Nigeria or even more than Nigeria I would say swallow swallow is a whole way of eating that is so clear to anyone that is not yet and if you don't know how to do it people are going to laugh at you talk to you about that table and I learned that maybe at 35 and I've been cooking I was like what if swallow would have been from France it would have been something we've been taught in cooking schools right so again like food dining culture has so much breadth and depth you know we learn how to eat chopsticks

when japanese food become popular to the world right So there's still new ways of eating, not just new ways of cooking. And I can't wait to see some of those emerge. Yeah. All right. We have time for a few more questions. There's so many great questions here. And I want to thank everyone for these fantastic questions. Someone asked, I love how you mentioned that cooking is an art. What are your must-have tools as an artist chef you can't live without? And I'm not sure if this questioner meant quite literally tools, but I'm going to say any tools, not just literal tools of cooking. But what tools can't you live without? I think they're very different for you, Jeff.

For me, it's really about protecting your sense of flavors. So for me, I'm very sort of cautious about what I eat. Like, for example, I would never smoke. Not because I think people smoke are bad people. It's just I protect my sense of flavor. So that's a tool. A tool. No, no, it's the tool, right?

Being curious. The day I stop thinking about food in a very primal sense, the day I don't enjoy that, I should quit. So keeping that, those are tools for me that are, you have to keep the joy in there and you have to be curious, but you also have to protect your body in a sense that you can't operate on that high level, right? Yeah, Ironcast fan, great.

Great with a good spatula. When I look at the great cooks that have been around, Leah, my grandmother, they were never defined by the tools. When I go to Ethiopia and we run, right? Even if we send tons of shoes, the kids never wear the shoes because they protect them for good days, not running.

And I got my new Nike Z's ideas whatever from amazon and still they're like 30 yards ahead of me and looking back it's like are you coming it's never about for me but the tools or talents and tools it and it's also the love of the craft so so for a home cook eat, eat out, and keep that love of curiosity and stay hungry. All right, for our last question, I know there are so many more that we all want to ask, but tell us what food, ingredients, cuisine is inspiring you now? What would you send us all to think about, look at, and taste? I would say wherever you are in the world, support your local black restaurant. Follow a chef of color in your neighborhood or outside your neighborhood. Because through that lens, you will learn new food. And it doesn't matter if you're of color or not, because if you want to know about the mystique

about John John from Haiti, it's not going to be through that major platform that you read it. It might be through that local restaurant. And you are missing out if you not have had John John. If you want to know about what's happening in the underbelly of cooking that then becomes the pop culture, follow the chefs in your community, support them. You know, Chef Mamin, there was a line cook with us for years at Brewster. She moved back to Ghana in order to come back and start a food conference called Black Women

in Food in DC sold out by the way today is coming back to Red Rooster to do a pop-up now that 360 for me of her coming back I mean lived in Harlem in in Little West Africa as we call it on the 116th street on the West Side, working at Red Rooster, taking that experience, going back, opening a restaurant where former Rooster staff have actually worked in, and then coming back to America through a conference that she created in order then tonight to do a pop-up. That, for me, is truly understanding connectivity, watching her evolve as a great chef and as a contributor in the food space. That is really what inspires me and keeps me going.

Things like that. Chef like mom. Yeah. Well, I think in many cases that's possible because of the inspiration you've given so many chefs to understand how they can root in culture, how they can use their ancestry, the places they are from, the places they've been as inspiration, and also bring some of the many ways in which our culture show up into the space of restaurants. I mean, you know, so much of your work has provided that path for so many. So what's a word of inspiration that you give to young chefs? But what do you say to them? Absolutely. As a way to give them the charge, because your inspiration, of course, was instigated by someone saying to you, you cannot

do this. And here we are now, you know, after decades where you have done this to, you know, James Beard Awards and awards and a memoir and tv shows and restaurants around the world and cooking for presidents and musicians and you know the whole world and living and our creators as well yes as well and you've done this you know so deeply throughout the world what would you say to a young person now who comes and says, how do I do this? A, welcome to our community. You will always be busy. Stay curious. Learn the craft.

Learn the craft. Keep cooking. Keep cooking. And then I literally, like I mean it stay hungry write your food both write your food and cook your food even at its worst stage it's a starting point i've written so many i cooked so many bad dishes before i get to the good dishes so for me it's really understanding the past and we learn the history, learn the craft, keep cooking and stay curious. Because if you do all that, somewhere you will learn about yourself and the joy of breaking bread and the joy of doing bad dishes. Because if you do 10 bad dishes,

that 11th time, that might be a great dish. I think that's a great metaphor for any creative pursuit, right? The ability to stay curious, stay hungry, keep allowing oneself the opportunity for failure. Because as you say, that 11th dish, that 11th try is then where the joy is. Marcus, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Not only for this fantastic meal, this fantastic conversation, but also for the great opportunity you've given us all to learn

so much about food and culture. And I want to say thank you to Thelma Golden for being here, as always, here at Havmar, but literally here for us in the TED community. And thank you to the TED audience for giving us this platform. We really appreciate it. And I'll see you here at Havmar or at Red Rooster or anywhere where we are past May Clause. Thank you so much for having us and stay hungry. Support for this show comes from Airbnb. If you know me, you know I love staying in Airbnbs when I travel. They make my family feel most at home when we're away from home. As we settled down at our Airbnb during a recent vacation to Palm Springs, I pictured my own home sitting empty.

Wouldn't it be smart and better put to use welcoming a family like mine by hosting it on Airbnb? It feels like the practical thing to do, and with the extra income, I could save up for renovations to make the space even more inviting for ourselves and for future guests. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.ca slash host. That was Marcus Samuelson in conversation with Thelma Golden at a TED membership event in 2024. If you're curious about TED's curation, find out more at TED.com slash curation guidelines. And that's it for today. TED Talks Daily is part of the TED Audio Collective. This episode was

produced and edited by our team, Martha Estefanos, Oliver Friedman, Brian Green, Autumn Thompson, and Alejandra Salazar. It was mixed by Christopher Faisy-Bogan. Additional support from Emma Taubner, Daniela Balarezo, and Will Hennessy. I'm Elise Hugh. I'll be back tomorrow with a fresh idea for your feed. Thanks for listening. Looking for a fun challenge to share with your friends and family? TED now has games designed to keep your mind sharp while having fun.

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