TED Talks Daily - How to divorce as allies, not enemies | Allison O'Brien

Episode Date: February 14, 2025

Ending a marriage doesn’t have to mean ending a family, says communication expert Allison O'Brien, who navigated her own divorce without lawyers or mediators. She introduces a framework for ensuring a divorce remains peaceful, supports children and creates a new family dynamic that nurtures everyone involved. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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instead of enemies in a divorce. She also reveals how a gracious split from her own partner actually made her family stronger than ever. That's coming up. It should have been the happiest day of my life. It was my wedding day. But there was a part of me that just couldn't wait for it to be over. And not because I didn't want to marry Ben, I did, I really did. But because both my parents were there,

and I was the byproduct of a high-conflict divorce. In 25 years, my parents have been in the same place at the same time, maybe half a dozen times. Acrimonious is euphemistic. But my parents' divorce doesn't make me unique or special. Forty to fifty percent of first marriages end in divorce, impacting half a million kids in the U.S. every year. And we know the reputation that divorce has for devastating children,

but it doesn't have to be that way. Now fast forward fifteen years from my wedding day and my phone rings. It's my dad. Super funky timing. Because I'm standing in the middle of the Cole's intimates department during a sale. So literally both hands full of underwear. Because it's a Cole sale. So it's three for ten. Right? He

says how's it going and I just blurted it out. I said dad I failed. Ben and I are getting divorced and I am terrified about money, where I'm gonna live and now how I'm gonna get health insurance and you know what he said? Don't worry, Al. Get a good lawyer. You'll be fine. But I didn't want a lawyer, and I didn't want to fight. I wanted it to be different for my kids than it was for me. I wanted both their parents at teacher conferences and in the stands watching them play hockey lacrosse

and celebrating them together at the happiest moments of their life, like the weddings and the graduations that would eventually come. And I did not want to divvy up those experiences with their dad. Kids exposed to high conflict are likely to suffer emotional, social, behavioral, and academic problems. And I can tell you those stats played out for me and my two brothers. Between us, we've dealt with addiction, eating disorders,

impulsive behavior, and many messed up relationships. So again, when my dad said, get a good lawyer without missing a beat, it was a gut punch. Doesn't have to be that way. I navigated my divorce, no lawyers, no mediators, using three key concepts that I teach in my work. Coincidentally, ironically, I don't know what it is,

but the child caught in the crossfire of a nasty divorce became a professional that helps others manage conflict. So in my work, I teach a specific framework of conversation grounded in listening that helps leaders and teams leverage healthy conflict, improve collaboration, and improve high stakes decision making. And if you break it down, if you really think about it, that's what divorce is.

It's hundreds of collaborative decisions. So we have two choices. We can leave those decisions to a judge, or we can commit to finding a path forward together. So I use these three concepts, key concepts that I teach in my work. A vision for the future, emotional agility, and a commitment to listening, first and foremost.

And I know this first step, it's gonna irritate some of you, but here it is. To move forward, we have to let go of the past. Let go of anger and blame. When two people come together, they create a dynamic. And sometimes it's the perfect dysfunction. But when both parties let go of blame, it levels the playing field. So from the get-go, you have to decide what you want your future to look like.

Because if you have children, your ex will be in your future forever. So do you want to be eternally mired in anger and blame? Or filled with pride and appreciation and gratitude for what you've accomplished together? When I took a deep, fearless personal inventory, I had to own my part in our dysfunction, which gave me an appreciation for the other side and allowed me to be emotionally agile in really hard conversations that came. Emotional agility, it's critical. Without it, there is no collaboration,

because in that moment, when we get triggered and our amygdala hijacks the prefrontal cortex, we get so fired up, we can't listen, we can't reason, and then we behave and we respond in ways that we wish we hadn't. So instead of lashing out with something intentionally hurtful, we have to pause, say nothing for a moment, maybe many moments, recover, shift to inquiry and commit to listening.

That's emotional agility. Here's what I mean. Ben and I triggered each other constantly throughout our process. But instead of firing back, I paused. And I asked myself, what am I missing? And just that idea that there was something I needed to learn was enough to shift me so that I could then ask him, what's really important to you in this?

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying this is easy. This was the most difficult thing I've ever done in my life. But I didn't do it alone. We both chose to prioritize our kids over and above our anger towards each other. We chose kindness. We chose grace.

It certainly didn't come by default. But how do you give grace when you fundamentally disagree or you are so hurt or so angry you don't even want to hear another perspective? You have to commit to listening first. Have a dialogue. Listen to learn. We live in a world that values speaking over listening. We are taught to speak, to sell, to make our case. We are not taught to listen. We prepare for difficult conversations by mapping out exactly what we're gonna say, but it's listening that inspires us to ask really good, thoughtful, open-ended questions.

And then when we listen, we often learn something in those answers that shift our perspective and open us up to possibilities that didn't exist before. But we can't get there unless we let go of being right and let go of pushing for exactly what we want. Or in the case of divorce, what we believe we deserve. And I just said deserve with a capital D,

because we can get so stuck in this me belief system that we prevent the possibility of a we solution. Bottom line divorce is not a failure and there is no shame in ending a marriage. It changes the family dynamic but it doesn't have to destroy it. So if you have had a brutal divorce, or you're currently in the midst of one, it's not too late to turn it around. And I implore you to try for the sake of your children. I can honestly say that I have a really solid friend in my former husband now. In fact, he's sitting here with my daughter and my current husband.

Ben and I talk often, mostly about our kids, our favorite topic. We share our concerns, our favorite topic. We share our concerns, our delights. His perspective is invaluable to me because there is no one on this earth that loves my kids as much as I do, except for him. And I would not be standing on this stage without him as my partner in marriage and in divorce. So this is a special shout-out, thank you, to him. I am so proud and so grateful for what we've done. So thank you, Ben, and thank you all. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. That was Alison O'Brien at TEDxBoulder in 2024. If you're curious about TED's curation, find out more at TED.com slash curation guidelines. And that's it for today's show. TED Talks Daily is part of the TED Audio Collective. This episode was produced and edited by our team, Martha Estefanos, Oliver Friedman, Brian Green, Lucy Little, Alejandra Salazar, and Tonsika Sarmarnivon. It was mixed by Christopher Fazy-Bogan, additional support from Emma Taubner and Daniela Balarezo.

I'm Elise Hu. I'll be back tomorrow with a fresh idea for your feed. Thanks for listening. On the TED Radio Hour, New York Times columnist Charles Blow is calling on Black Americans to move south, a reverse great migration to vote Black politicians into office. I believe that state power is essential to black liberation in this country. New takes on black history. That's next time on the TED Radio Hour from NPR. Subscribe to the TED Radio Hour wherever you get your podcasts.