TED Talks Daily - Let's get real about free speech | Greg Lukianoff

Episode Date: June 24, 2025

"Too many people believe in something closer to freedom from speech rather than freedom of speech," says attorney Greg Lukianoff. In a timely talk, he warns against the rise of "mob censorship" — and reminds us why free speech is the best check on power ever invented.Want to help shape TED’s shows going forward? Fill out our survey!Become a TED Member today at ted.com/joinLearn more about TED Next at ted.com/futureyou Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host. You're listening to TED Talks Daily where we bring you new ideas and conversations to spark your curiosity every day. I'm your host, Elise Hugh. Freedom is a fragile thing and something that can mean many different things to different people. In this talk, journalist and lawyer Greg Lukianoff warns against what he calls mob censorship. He asks people to consider what happens

when disruptive protests silence opposing views and reminds us that free speech is a crucial safeguard for truth, safety and the powerless. ["The Powerless"] Shut it down. That was the order given by angry students in response to a pro-Israel speaker. This is UC Berkeley 2024, and pro-Palestinian students were determined not to let this talk happen.

A call to action went out on social media urging students to shut down the event and nearly 200 students showed up. They attacked the venue, they broke down a door, they broke a window and they forced the speaker to flee. Now I have defended the free speech rights of literally thousands of students and their right to protest,

but you do not have the right to shut down someone else's talk and decide for everyone else who they are allowed to hear. That is mob censorship, not freedom of speech. But unfortunately, 2023 and 2024 were the two worst years for mob censorship and shout downs on record. Now, to be clear, not all speech is protected, nor should it be. There are certain categories of speech acts, like incitement to violence, harassment, and true threats that aren't protected.

Indeed, if there is such a thing as a free speech absolutist, I have never met one. But I am an opinion absolutist. I believe that all opinions should be protected and your right to free speech is a human right. But I also believe everyone's opinion is crucial data to have about the world. But then again, I'm the weird law student who went to law school specifically to study freedom of

speech and the first amendment. There was this one dude who actually laughed at me that I would never find a job in this field. Well, jokes on him. I've been doing this now for 25 years at the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression, FIRE. And that 25 years of experience has allowed me to see both how far students have fallen from understanding freedom of speech, but also how principled and even joyful they used to be in defense of free speech not very long ago.

I think of West Virginia University about 20 years ago. It was a lefty student group and they're objecting to a free speech zone policy. Free speech zones is an Orwellian name for these policies that actually restrict and quarantine free speech to little tiny corners of campus. They thought this was ridiculous, so they protested the zone outside of the zone. And what would happen is sometimes locals would walk by and they'd make fun of the students.

They'd hackle them, they'd insult them. Want to know what these students did in response? They cheered their hecklers. They believed, and I love these students, I absolutely love them for this, they understood that free speech belongs to everyone or it belongs to no one. But unfortunately today, not just students, I feel like too many people believe in something closer to freedom from speech rather than freedom of speech.

But I'm not willing to accept that. I believe that there are four truths that everyone needs to understand that can help get us back to understanding and appreciating free speech. And they are? One, free speech makes us safer. Two, free speech cures violence. Three, free speech cures violence. Three, free speech protects the powerless. And four, even bad people can have good ideas.

So let's start. Free speech makes you safer. My mentor is a civil libertarian named Harvey Silverglate, and he spent his career in part defending freedom of speech, both on and off campus. But when the idea started to hit campus maybe back in the 80s that bigoted or hurtful or hateful speech had to be banned, he would say,

I'd prefer to know who the Nazis in the room are, so I know who not to turn my back to. Now, Harvey was right. It's about knowledge. Simply, you are not safer for knowing less about what people really think. So, I'll give you an example. Lizard people who live under the Denver airport do not, in fact, control the world. (*Laughter*)

They don't, I'm sorry. But knowing that your future husband thinks they do, or your congressman thinks they do, or every single one of your neighbors thinks they do, is pretty important information to have. To understand the world, you must know what people really think. Truth number two, free speech cures violence.

About half of Americans, by some estimates more, believe that words can be violence. And this is especially true. It's actually much worse on American college campuses. Ann Coulter, conservative, tried to speak at Cornell a couple of years back, and her speech was also shouted down, and students actually literally shouted,

your words are violence. Now, I have experienced real violence. I was once punched out, I was randomly assaulted, I got a concussion, and I couldn't see out of this eye for a month. Worse, one of my friends was stabbed in the chest, and I was there. There was blood everywhere, and I was sure he was going to die. That's violence. And we insult the victims of actual violence

by equating words with bloody violence. (*Applause*) Free speech is not violence. It's the best alternative to violence ever invented. Truth number three. Free speech protects the powerless. I fear, and I know this is about 15 years ago, that people were showing up on my radar

who seem to have been taught that free speech is the cynical tool of the three Bs. The bully, the bigot and the robber baron. Now, this is just bad history. So, historically, the robber baron, the wealthy and powerful, have not needed a special protection for free speech because they are wealthy and powerful. And historically, the bully and the bigot in a democratic society, if they have the votes, they still get to call the shots. You only need a special protection for freedom of speech,

like the First Amendment, for people who are either unpopular with power or unpopular with the majority. This is why revolutionary figures like Frederick Douglass, Ida B. Wells, Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King, and Nelson Mandela all championed freedom of speech. It's why John Lewis, someone I was like, I got to meet actually, because he was in my neighborhood a lot, the great John Lewis, civil rights icon,

he would argue, he would often say that without freedom of speech, the civil rights movement would have been a bird without wings. They understood that free speech was not the weapon of the powerful. It is the best check on power ever invented. Now, truth number four. (*Applause*) Even bad people can have good ideas. So much time is wasted in social media debates.

I can just probably end the sentence there. But so much time is wasted in social media debates trying to establish that your opponent is a bad person, as if that's the same thing as saying that they're wrong. Hopefully by now we understand that good people aren't always right and bad people aren't always right and bad people aren't always wrong.

I mean, like it or not, people with truly awful beliefs have made massive contributions. Take Werner von Braun. Rocket scientist. Goddess to the moon. Also, Nazi. Or take Genghis Khan.

Absolutely spectacular for trade routes. But... Or take someone like Thomas Malthus, reportedly a kind and thoughtful man, but his ideas on overpopulation actually were used to justify famines and mass sterilization. Or take another Thomas, Thomas More, great intellectual and literal saint

who also burned people to death. But this is, morality and accuracy don't always line up. So I want you guys to do a little exercise with me. This is participation time, participation time. So please look at your neighbor and repeat after me. Just because I hate your guts doesn't mean you're wrong. Just because I hate your guts doesn't mean you're wrong. Yes.

Thank you so much. OK. OK, OK. I know nobody hates each other at 10. But it kind of points out how just labeling someone bad is kind of meaningless. So like for that matter, labeling someone, I don't know, like woke or fascist or libtard or grifter, it doesn't have anything to do with whether or not

they are right. The way we figure out truth is a process of checking and rechecking, and it doesn't work if you just talk to people you already agree with. And think about the poster boy for questioning his society's sacred cows and certainties. This is of course the great Socrates. He was so good at questioning certainties and sacred cows that he angered his society so much, they made him poison himself to death.

Socrates embodied the idea that certainty is the mind killer. Young people used to be the great drivers of free speech, and they can be again. But for that to happen, we all must remember that to understand the world, it's crucial to know what people really think. And that is only going to happen in a situation in which people feel like they can be their authentic selves.

And for that, we need free speech. Thank you. That was Greg Lukianff speaking at TED 2025. If you're curious about TED's curation, find out more at TED.com slash curation guidelines. And that's it for today's show. TED Talks Daily is part of the TED Audio Collective. This episode was produced and edited by our team, Martha Estefanos, Oliver Friedman, Brian Green, Lucy Little, Alejandra Salazar, and Tonsika Sarmarnivon. It was mixed by Christopher Fazy-Bogan,

additional support from Emma Taubner and Daniela Balarezo. I'm Elise Hu. I'll be back tomorrow with a fresh idea for your feed. Thanks for listening. This episode is sponsored by PWC. AI, climate change, and geopolitical shifts are reconfiguring the global economy. That's why industry leaders turn to PWC to help turn disruption into opportunity. PWC unites expertise and tech so you can outthink, outpace, and outperform.

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