TED Talks Daily - TED Talks Daily Book Club: Horse Barbie | Geena Rocero

Episode Date: June 30, 2024

This is our first episode of a new series — the TED Talks Daily Book Club. Join Elise as she interviews TED speakers about their books and their ideas beyond the page. First up: Geena Rocero, an award-winning producer, model, director and the author of "Horse Barbie: A Memoir." A stunning narrative at the center of transgender history and activism, Rocero's story of survival, love, celebration and pure joy is the kind of book you won't want to put down.This interview was recorded live as part of the TED Membership program. TED Members are invited to attend our live recordings and participate in Q&As with authors. To join in on the fun, sign up at go.ted.com/membership

TED Audio Collective. Hi, I'm Elise Hu. You're listening to TED Talks Daily. And today we are introducing a new series, our Summer Book Club, where we check out new books that will spark your curiosity all summer long. These reads are coming from our very own TED speaker community, and at the end of each month, we're having conversations with the authors to dig deeper into their big ideas. In 2014, Gina Rosero stood on the TED stage and gave a talk with wildly high stakes for her own

life. At the time, Gina was a New York model at the height of her career, but she was also holding a secret. Gina was transgender, living extremely visibly and invisibly at the same time. So she decided to come out big time on the TED stage. Here is that moment. For the last nine years, some of my neighbors, some of my friends, colleagues, even my agent did not know about my history. I think in mystery, this is called a reveal. Some of my friends, colleagues, even my agent did not know about my history. I think in mystery, this is called a reveal. Here is mine.

I was assigned boy at birth based on the appearance of my genitalia. I remember when I was five years old in the Philippines walking around our house, I would always wear this T-shirt in my head. And my mom asked me, how come you always wear that t-shirt in your head? I said, mom, this is my hair. I'm a girl. I knew then how to self-identify. Gina's memoir, Horse Barbie, traces her life journey from the back alleys of the Philippines, where she spent her childhood days, to the trans pageants of her teenage years, to the modeling scene of New York, and then coming out on the TED stage. Across diverse cultures and subcultures, the book interrogates what it means to be true to yourself and how much it costs to hide.

Ten years after that moment, I am so happy to welcome Gina to TED Talks Daily's Summer Book Club. She and I will be chatting together, and then we're opening this up to questions from our audience of TED members. But first, a quick break to hear from our sponsors. Support for this show comes from Airbnb. If you know me, you know I love staying in Airbnbs when I travel. They make my family feel most at home when we're away from home. As we settled down at our Airbnb during a recent vacation to Palm Springs, I pictured my own home sitting empty.

Wouldn't it be smart and better put to use welcoming a family like mine by hosting it on Airbnb? It feels like the practical thing to do, and with the extra income I could save up for renovations feels like the practical thing to do. And with the extra income, I could save up for renovations to make the space even more inviting for ourselves and for future guests. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.ca slash host. AI keeping you up at night? Wondering what it means for your business? Don't miss the latest season of Disruptors, the podcast that takes a closer look at the innovations reshaping our economy.

Join RBC's John Stackhouse and Sonia Sinek from Creative Destruction Lab as they ask bold questions like, why is Canada lagging in AI adoption and how to catch up? Don't get left behind. Listen to Disruptors, the innovation era, and stay ahead of the game in this fast-changing world. Follow Disruptors on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast platform. Gina, thank you for joining me for our inaugural event. Hi, Elise. Hi, everyone. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited. I mean, being here at TED is a full circle moment. Absolutely. And I know a lot of folks have already read the book.

So let's just jump in to where it starts. So the book really starts with the transgender pageants in the Philippines where you grew up and you write so beautifully about them and describe them as a national sport. So can you just paint a picture for us of what the experience of attending one of these events looks like and feels like? Yeah, it's like the informal national sport of Philippines. As a context in the Philippines, we are predominantly a Catholic culture. So during a celebration of a Catholic saint or patron, we're celebrating a fiesta celebration. And this happens all over the Philippines throughout the year. Usually there's like a five-day celebration to honor a particular saint. Let's say St. Peter, you know, Fiestop St. Peter. And on the fifth day and the main event that happens

that usually on a Sunday, the main event that happens to celebrate St. Peter is the Transgender Beauty Pageant. So it's as mainstream as you could imagine it to be. Like there were the whole families watching. If it's a neighborhood pageant that was organized by the community, that pageant stage is usually right in front of the church.

When I started joining pageants, we would go, you know, dress up inside the church in front of all the statues and saints. You painted such a great picture of just growing up in the Philippines and how alive it felt as well. And also the people in your life, like your father and his masculinity, and also about your mother and her matriarchal power. So how did your parents help you really conceptualize yourself and your ideas of gender in your youth? I'll start with my mom, because, you know, even in my TED Talk, I talked about my mom. And I like to say

that my mom is a devout Catholic woman who loves her trans daughter. There's no but there. And yes, it offers contradiction. And sometimes when I'm explaining this, I think the factor of, because I was born and raised in the Philippines and then moved to now live in the U S sometimes I even want to put it like that context of the Western context and the, you know, the Philippine, let's just say Asian context, you know, it's because the presence of gender fluidity, this culture of transgender beauty pageants has been so prevalent and has been part of our mainstream culture in the Philippines. It's not like a taboo in that sense. So when I started expressing my, you know, the femininity at such a young age, my mom would just see me walking in her neighborhood, putting the towel in my head or like the blanket that would wrap around it. I would just like

sashay in her little alley where I grew up. And she saw, you know, how much joy it gave me. And then when it comes to my papa, my father, it's a little bit more complicated because I have a very complicated relationship, you know, with him. As a family, we have a complicated relationship with him. He's a devout Catholic him. He's a devout Catholic man, his own machismo, obviously carrying so much expectation of what that kind of masculinity is, you know, to be that in that kind of expectation. But the other side of that, he also loves me as his trans daughter. He never once policed me about my gender presentation. You know, he did, you know, you know, he got mad mad when I would always play in the summertime

and won't take my summer naps. But when it comes to gender, he just allowed me to be. And I think my attempt in deconstructing what that was and where it came from, because he was also carrying his own expectation of who he is. When he drinks, that's when the other side of him would come around. There's so much violence that I've experienced, but also this other side of it, of the expectation, because growing up, my mom was the breadwinner in the family. My dad was the stay-at-home dad. So I think the expectation of him to provide for the family and him being the stay-at-home, there's a sense of, I like to say empathy, you know? Yeah. Cause he also had to challenge societal expectations. When you brought up kind of the differences between East and West, one thing

that you wrote that really struck me was about how in the Philippines, we referring to the transgender community are culturally visible, but legally erased because of the Catholic institutions. And then you came to the United States when you were quite young, I think, what, 19 or 20? And then- Oh my gosh, even younger. So 17. When you came to the United States, it was largely for the opportunity in a country in which being non-binary is legally recognized. But then culturally, you felt as though you had to be invisible. So I'd love for you to explore this kind of dichotomy, the way that the Philippines can often can really celebrate the transgender community, but then keep you all legally invisible.

And then the opposite in the United States, where in many spheres, you did not feel welcome. I think there's so much to expand there. In the Philippines, because of this long history of gender fluidity in our culture, I'm going to go a little bit like anthropologist here, because it offers a very specific view. In pre-colonial Philippines, trans people are always been part of society. We were the spiritual advisors to our kings and queens. And then in 1521, for the next 400 years, we were colonized by Spain. The introduction of Catholicism, the introduction of that Catholic calendar. and then in 1898, when we became an American colony, all these forces together, right? And it's in this context of when the introduction of beauty pageants as an American import in the Philippines.

So you have all these cultural amalgamation, right? And when I say this, when I say that, you know, trans pageants are part of our mainstream culture, from the American Western lens, people already would think that, but we're not politically recognized. To this day, there are no rights that legally recognize trans people. To this day, I cannot change my gender marker on my legal documents. I would still have M on all my documents. So when I was 17 years old, after, you know, for two years being a pageant diva, joining all these pageants all over the Philippines on top of my game. My mom, who moved to the United States five years prior, called me and she said, you know, your petition came through. You could now move to the United States. I actually said no first because I was 17 years old. I was the diva in the Philippines. Why would I leave that? I was

making so much money. But then she called back and she said, you know, but if you moved to San Francisco at the time, and this is around 2001, she said that if you moved here, you could have F on your gender marker in your documents. When she said that, it was as if she was speaking magic. It was like, forget pageants. I'm moving to the United States. So when I moved here at 17, it was a culture shock that, yes, I had F on my gender marker, but the visibility was non-existence for trans folks. I asked my mom, where are the trans pageants? Like there is no

such thing in America. And then when I started seeing representation in media for trans folks, the very first image that I saw on TV was trans people at Jerry Springer. I remember feeling shame, that, oh, this is how trans people are treated in America. A country that promised me freedom with an F marker, I got shame. So it influenced a lot of my thinking. I was 17 years old, a teenager grappling with this cultural differences. You first arrived and lived briefly in San Francisco, but very quickly got scouted to model, which began your rather meteoric rise as a model. So let's jump to moving to New York. In your modeling, you booked a lot of what you described as sexy gigs. So I'm curious what that meant for you. What was it like for you to be seen as a sex symbol? But at the time in 2005, New York fashion, being an out and proud

trans fashion model was not allowed. So many stories of trans people that came before me when they were modeling and they got outed, their careers disappeared, right? So I made the decision to not share about my trans identity. It offers this very, you know, dual reality. I feel like I was living like as a spy because I was in a clandestine operation that like, yes, I was doing this, you know, sexy lingerie, photo shoot, covers of magazines. But then the other side of that, I had to protect that cover because nobody could know that I'm trans. I am so visible in all aspects, right? Covers of magazines, billboards, all of it. But I was also invisible at the same time.

Say more about your desire that photographers and all of us would really see you, see you clearly one day. You know, when I was 15, when I started joining trans beauty pageants, I became the diva who came out of nowhere. So in a very competitive, you know, when I was 15, when I started joining trans beauty pageants, I became the diva who came out of nowhere. So in a very competitive, you know, industry like trans pageants in the Philippines, people started creating this insult that I look like a horse because of my protruding mouth profile, my long neck, the wig that I was wearing. And it hurt to hear from so many trans pageant divas that I looked up to. And then one day my trans mom, Tiger Lily, saw me on stage and she saw me on my red halter, iconic gown in the evening gown competition. And she saw like the way the light was hitting me,

the way I was projecting myself, it was a certain aura and energy. And she said, you actually look like a horse Barbie. So I remember how it felt when I was, you know, a horse Barbie when I was joining pageants in the Philippines. And that's what I wanted. And all this time when I was modeling stealth in New York City, where nobody knew I was trans, that spirit of horse Barbie, that kind of affirmation of who I am in my sensuality as a young model in New York City would be able to come out at some point.

I love that. And eventually you did come out on the TED stage with a TED Talk, which is just one of the many gutsy things that you have done in your life. Why a TED Talk? Wow. Let's just say after modeling for eight years stealth, having to manage the stories I tell people, who do I let in? I can't have deep relationships. I have to have a protected layer of people that I could trust.

It got really dark. Let me say that. And I was about to turn 30 years old. And I told myself that I can't go through this new decade in my life with this anguish, with this emotional turmoil that I don't feel free. I cannot be fully myself. I cannot do that anymore. And then my partner asked me that, what does turning 30 mean to me? And that there was a switch. The sense of purpose was so much bigger than my fear. And that was a force that drove me. And I said, knowing me as that pageant girl in the Philippines, let's go big here. And what bigger way to tell my story, to reveal this than the TED Talk. So I was like, I'm going to do it in the TED stage.

Let's go big or go home. And we're so glad that you did. And I cannot believe it has been 10 years since that moment on the TED stage. So I'd love for you to reflect, what have you seen change, not only in you, but in the way we as a society think about coming out and about gender identity? Certainly so much has changed, right? The visibility is out there. We see more people seeing movies and television, books. There's the other side of that. You know, I think since 2014, when we decided to come out and share our story, it's been

the most violent in our community. The murders of trans folks since 2014 has only skyrocketed. So it's a different conversation. I think what I'd like to offer here, especially in this current state that we have now, is that with all the attacks on trans lives, particularly trans youth, the other side of the visibility conversation is the equity conversation, right?

And as an example, just like in the Philippines, we have mainstream visibility, but we don't have this political equitable life. Those two things has to work together. It has to go hand in hand. You should feel yourself reflected in the media, but you should be able to access the most basic needs for your dignity, health care, being able to play in sports that you want to just really feel affirmed and safe.

That's the most important thing. Those are the conversations that I'm very interested in now because for many years, it's just about the visibility. There's this gorgeous passage in your book when you're talking about the scars on your body and that you love them and you wear them like a badge of honor because they remind you that,

and I'm just going to quote you, back to you, you've gone through the hard work of aligning your body and soul. What does that mean to you, to be fully embodied like that, to align your body and soul? I have to say like the embodiment I feel is pre-colonial. I think the deepest true line on that is like the journey in decolonizing my mind. For so many years, the kind of information that I was receiving when it comes to my body that also reflects who I am is through a very

particular lens, right? And in my book, I detail the long history of pre-colonial existence of trans folks in the Philippines and not just in the Philippines, but all over the world, that kind of embodiment and how I see myself and who I am now in the world, it's a force in my life. I feel grounded in that spirit and in that quest in unpacking that. We'll be right back with more of our conversation, but first, a quick break to hear from our sponsors. And now back to the TED Talks Daily Summer Book Club. Let's jump to member questions. Members, thank you so much for sending in your questions and being such an engaged audience. The first question from one of our TED members, how can I, a mother of a trans woman and an educator at a university, how do I help my daughter, trans students, and other trans people to build confidence? I think the most important thing is affirming them, you know, right? In a way, put that spotlight on the trans person and say, I'm here to listen to you. You guide me here in this sense,

because when you allow that affirmation to flow through, when there's no judgment, when you just want them to shine, you are going to shine and that's going to be reflected. I have a lot of friends that are therapists and they always said that there's this thing that especially when a child transitions, the whole environment transitions to them and they transition into like other possibilities of way of looking at things. Yeah. There's something so powerful about people who are just in your corner and knowing that

people are rooting for you, you know, and that your loved ones have your back, like in the way that you write about your mother, Gina, I think. Yeah. What is the state of trans legal rights in the Philippines? And what are you keeping your eyes on policy-wise? Unfortunately, it's really dire. Again, there's a long history of trans activism in the Philippines.

The anti-discrimination that involves LGBT people in the Philippines has been sitting in the House of Representatives for 20 years, and it hasn't passed. Philippines is the only country in the world where you can't get divorced, you know, besides the Vatican. So we're still there. There's no separation of church and state in the Philippines, like the Catholic Church.

It has a big influence on policy, you know, policymakers quote Bibles to pass a law. It's tough, you know, but I commend and I'm in touch with so many people that are doing the work and making sure other access are provided. I think in the framework of even what's happening right now, law and policy could only go so far, right? What I remember growing up in the Philippines is like, we took care of each other. And that's the most important thing. Even if we didn't have rights, we took care of each other. You know, the kind of love and it's so ingrained in that very communal journey of your transition and who you want to be. I think that's most important for me. You had that really fast and meteoric rise that we talked about in the pageant scene.

Were you always so sure of yourself? Was there a time that you bombed? And what was it like if things didn't go as planned? Oh, hell yeah. I reached the top so quick. And it's just meant to have a little dip. And then on that dip, that's when I realized that for me to stay here, I need to be even more so authentic with myself. Don't follow the trends of beauty in the Philippines from, you know, I don't want to

bleach my skin the way that the girls are bleaching their skin in the Philippines. I don't want to have that same kind of hairstyle. I don't want to have that same kind of hairstyle. I don't want to have that same gown. You know, like that's when I realized when things are rough, I lean into more who I truly am, you know, and go against the grain because I rise even more after I've realized that. And I think it applies to so many things in life. You know, I was so lucky to have that at 15 years old. That was my formative years.

In the most repetitive, dramatic, flamboyant spectacle of life with my chosen family, I learned so much at such a young age. And it still applies in my life. Okay, next question. Other than your own work, what has inspired you in other work or art? I'm also a director. So I like following directors that are coming up or stories about trans folks in the media

that are coming up. When it comes to like trans representation and storytelling, what I hate is the tendency to explaining are coming up. When it comes to like trans representation and storytelling, what I hate is the tendency to, to explaining what it means to be trans. Like when I center a point of view as of a trans person, I'm not here to explain, this is a fully realized person. This character is complicated. This is a main character energy. This is a person who's a full human being. When television shows or directors that are creating those projects, I'm into it. All right. We have time for about two more audience questions. The next one is,

this is so random, but you write about a couple of relationships in the book. How do you find a worthy partner? I mean, I have dated all kinds. I have gone through like the rejection, getting kicked out of the room, you know, all those things. It got to the point where vying for that kind of affirmation from somebody else was proving to be, it's not going to do it for me. And then that's when I went to, let's just say my own journey

of healing, my own journey of who I really am, what do I really like? And I think most importantly, as a trans person, when I deep dive in where my sense of shame was coming from and I unpack that, that's when it freed me. You know, when we first met, Norman, who is still my partner, I decided to share with him about my trans identity. It wasn't coming from a sense of, by the way, I need to tell you something that this is all like, it was, it's implying that there's something is wrong, you know? And again, I had to go through all those healing for me stages. But when I got there, I was just like, being trans is a gift. Do you want it? Do you like it? You know, it's up to you. I know it's a gift,

you know, but I got to the point in my life where I saw it as a gift that I'm offering and sharing with you. It's up to you. Yeah, and he's a lucky guy. Finally, let's wrap up with one last question. What is your message for the younger generations that are coming up? I work with a lot of particularly trans youth, AAPI youth. I always tell them that who I am is rooted in the pre-colonial spirit.

I say that because in the current environment that we have, where particularly trans youth are being attacked. I don't want to tell them like, oh, things are going to get better right away. Yes, it's tough. However, I want them to dig deeper and know that they are part of this long history of resilience, beauty, you know, where so many forces in the world, so many things that have tried to erase us. And we are still here. You are part of

that thread of life and journey. So that's my advice to them is to remember the long history of it because to this day, it gives me a sense of power to this day, that pre-colonial identity of transness where in the Philippines, in Asia Pacific culture, where gender neutral pronoun is the norm. We don't have gender binary in our language. In pre-colonial times, people pray to trans and gender non-conforming goddesses. Remember that because you've always been here and carry that with you. I know that's also advice I'm giving myself. you know? Yeah. You've always been here. I can't imagine a more beautiful note to end on. So thank you so much, Gina.

Thank you. Thanks all. Thank you for joining. Happy Pride. Happy Pride. Support for this show comes from Airbnb. If you know me, you know I love staying in Airbnbs when I travel. They make my family feel most at home when we're away from home. As we settled down at our Airbnb during a recent vacation to Palm Springs, I

pictured my own home sitting empty. Wouldn't it be smart and better put to use welcoming a family like mine by hosting it on Airbnb? It feels like the practical thing to do, and with the extra income, I could save up for renovations to make the space even more inviting for ourselves and for future guests. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host. Big, big thanks to Gina Rosero for joining us today. Her memoir, Horse Barbie, is out now. You can also follow her Instagram at Gina Rosero. That's G-E-E-N-A-R-O-C-E-R-O. And a big shout out to our TED member audience. If you'd like to be a part of our next book club event, you can join at go.ted.com slash membership. And that's it for today. TED Talks Daily is part of the TED Audio Collective. This

episode of the Summer Book Club series was produced by Kim Nader-Vein, Peter Suh, and Daniela Balarezo, with assistance from Conor Linderruth. It was edited by Alejandra Salazar. The TED Talks Daily team includes Martha Estefanos, Oliver Friedman, Brian Green, and Autumn Thompson. Additional support from Emma Taubner, Will Hennessey, and Roxanne Highlash. I'm Elise Hu. Thanks for listening. Looking for a fun challenge to share with your friends and family? TED now has games designed to keep your mind sharp while having fun. Visit TED.com slash games to explore the joy and wonder of TED Games.