TED Talks Daily - This is what the future of media looks like | Hamish McKenzie

Episode Date: May 21, 2025

What if the polarizing mess of social media, clickbait headlines and addictive algorithms isn't a breakdown of media but a transition to something better? Substack cofounder Hamish McKenzie explores how independent creators are growing a new media "garden," where trust beats engagement metrics and audiences matter more than ads. Learn why clicking “subscribe” doesn’t just signal support; it gives you power.Want to help shape TED’s shows going forward? Fill out our survey! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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If you can think it, Gemini can help create it. Learn more about Google Pixel 9 at store.google.com. Support for the show comes from Airbnb. Last summer, my family and I had an amazing Airbnb stay while adventuring in Playa del Carmen. It was so much fun to bounce around in ATVs, explore cool caves, and snorkel in subterranean rivers. Vacations like these are never long enough, but perhaps I could take advantage of my empty home by hosting it on

Airbnb while I'm away, and then I could use the extra income to stay a few more days on my next Mexico trip. It seems like a smart thing to do since my house sits empty while I'm away. We could zipline into even more cenotes on our next visit to Mexico. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host. You're listening to TED Talks Daily, where we bring you new ideas and conversations to spark your curiosity every day. I'm your host, Elise Hugh. The journalism business has been imploding for my entire adult life, collapsing business models, shuttering

publications, fewer and fewer jobs for the important work of informing the public. Hamish McKenzie, one of the founders of Substack, goes so far as to say that we're in an age of chaos media. There's a cacophony of voices online driven by algorithmic whims and viral trends, but the rewards go primarily to the platforms. In his talk he shares a vision for a new media ecosystem where relationships are valued over quote flimsy validation and his hope for a world where journalists and creators can own and live off their work.

Coming up.... We're living through the most significant media disruption since the printing press. It's a transformation that explains everything from political polarization to why algorithms now do the jobs of editors. And it's creating a hell of a mess. But I secretly think that we're on our way to something greater than we've ever seen

in human history. This is a massive deal, of course, because media systems don't just convey information. They shape how we think and how we behave. of course, because media systems don't just convey information. They shape how we think and how we behave. They shape our culture. I spent my career navigating these shifts. As one of the founders of Substack,

I helped writers and creators make money directly from their audiences. Before Substack, I was the lead writer for Tesla. I wrote a book about the electric car revolution and I covered media startups as a reporter. So I've witnessed firsthand how media systems evolve and how they collapse. The arrival of the internet promised to democratize media. But so far, I think,

it has broken more than it's fixed. Yes, social media has given everyone a voice, promised to democratize media. But so far, I think, it has broken more than it's fixed. Yes, social media has given everyone a voice, but it has still concentrated power in the hands of a few. But I see a new system starting to flourish, and I call it the garden. This garden includes a new generation of media platforms that give more power to creators and consumers. It's coming from places like Patreon, Twitch, Supercast,

and then the company I started with, Chris Beston, GarageSethi, Substack. It's an ecosystem that gives economic autonomy to independent voices, and it fosters direct relationships that are built on trust, instead of just putting everyone at the mercy of algorithms that maximize engagement and advertising revenue. For decades, we all lived in a media world that was kind of like a temple. It was top-down, centralized and controlled by gatekeepers.

We had the city newspaper over breakfasts, radio for the morning commutes, TV news just before dinner, and it was a relatively stable system, but it was also rigid. It could represent only a few perspectives, and new voices had to be led in by favor. Well, then internet companies came along,

and they sacked this temple. Craigslist took the classifieds, Google and Facebook captured the ad markets, streaming services are dismantling television. And now with the rise of social networks, we're in the age of chaos media, where anyone can have a voice, but the power still flows primarily to the platforms.

We've gone from catechism to cacophony. And our political culture mirrors this chaos. Opponents are to be humiliated. Followers are expected to show feonents are to be humiliated. Followers are expected to show fealty to specific doctrines. And attention of any kind, whether it's positive or negative,

wins the day. So we've gone from, ask not what your country can do for you to what you can do for your country to dunk tweets and goading salutes. Not going to do one of those. But when you look closely, it is possible to see something new emerging.

And when I look closely, I see the green shoots of a garden. This garden, to put it in somewhat inorganic terms, is a distributed system of independent voices who enjoy economic autonomy. Unlike Instagram or TikTok, where the power mostly goes to Mark Zuckerberg or the Chinese Communist Party, the garden model connects creators directly with their communities.

We've seen in history how revolutions like this can take quite a long time to fully unfold. Thomas Edison demonstrated the first practical light bulb in 1879. But it wasn't until the 1920s when electricity started to become common in people's homes. The missing piece was the electric grid. And if we look today at our current media revolution, we can see that the missing piece has been a different kind of power,

economic power. Economic autonomy gives creators freedom. Instead of answering to bosses or an advertiser or an algorithm, they can focus on deeply serving their communities. Instead of chasing virality, they can spend all their energy on doing their best work. And in this way, the garden can bring a sense of order to social media's bedlam,

distributing the power among the many instead of the few. Let's take a look at some examples of how the garden is already starting to flourish. Take Crystal Ball and Saga and Jetty, they're the hosts of a nonpartisan news show called Breaking Points. They used to be produced by The Hill, and it had the name Rising, Crystal Ball, Saga and Jetty, they're the hosts of a nonpartisan news show called Breaking Points. It used to be produced by The Hill, and it had the name rising,

but then Crystal is from the left, Saga, who's from the right, decided to go independent. They moved it to Supercast and YouTube, and then to Rumble. Now they make more money from subscriptions and cover a broader range of political viewpoints for an audience of more than a million viewers. Take Caroline Chambers.

When publishers spurned her proposal for a cookbook deal, she took matters into her own hands. She set up a sub stack, because she's a genius. (*Laughter*) She called it, what to cook when you don't feel like cooking. And she grew a community there to about half a million people. They were all based around practical, accessible recipes.

So when she did eventually publish that cookbook, it became an instant New York Times bestseller. Not because a publisher anointed her, but because of the genuine relationships she had cultivated with her readers. an instant New York Times bestseller. Not because a publisher anointed her, but because of the genuine relationships she had cultivated with her readers. Consider Matt Iglesias. In 2020, Matt left Vox, the company he co-founded,

to start a newsletter, which he called Slow Boring. Matt had been a blogger since the early 2000s. He went on and wrote for the Atlantic, and then he started Vox during the social media boom. But it's with Slow Boring that he's found true independence. Today, he writes about what he wants to write for an audience of more than 200,000 subscribers, and he makes more than a million dollars a year.

What these creators share in common is independence from traditional gatekeepers and aggregators. They succeed by cultivating trust, not by gaming algorithms or knowing the right people. So when you subscribe to Breaking Points or you support Caroline's Substack, you're not just paying for content, you're entering into a relationship.

The creator knows you're there, they value your support, and they can often engage with you directly in ways that just weren't possible in the old systems. This garden is about ownership and sustainability and resilience. When the creators own their relationships with their audiences directly, no platform or algorithm can suddenly cut them off from their community. That sense of ownership translates into a sustainable income that doesn't depend on algorithmic whims or viral trends.

And the whole system is more resilient, because it's not vulnerable to a single point of failure. If TikTok or Facebook change their policies overnight, the independent creator can continue to live off the value of their relationships with subscribers. This shift has profound implications. In the garden, the media can become less about capturing attention

and more about nurturing relationships. There can be more space for nuance and complexity in a world that increasingly resists both. And in the garden, biodiversity can flourish. There can be many more winners. There can be much better coverage of a vast multitude of niches. And everyone can play a role in shaping the culture they live in. Of course, there are going to be some people who will say,

well, this is all just going to lead to more echo chambers. But I think the opposite can be true, because when you network cultural connections, people can move freely between communities and be exposed to new ways of thinking in more moderate environments. The chaos of our current media moment cannot last. But then no one's quite sure

what the new landscape is going to ultimately bring. And that's why our choices today matter so much. Every subscription, every share and every minute of our attention is a vote for the culture we want to flourish. And now we can invest in a system that values deep relationships. We can reclaim our attention from the doom scroll feeds and pour it, like water,

onto the seedlings of a better future. And when we do this, it's not just about getting better content. It's about cultivating a richer and more thoughtful culture, a culture that can face up to the complex challenges of our time, a culture worth subscribing to. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks.

Thanks. That was Hamish McKenzie at TED 2025. If you're curious about TED's curation, find out more at TED.com slash curationguidelines. And that's it for today's show. TED Talks Daily is part of the TED Audio Collective. This episode was produced and edited by our team, Martha Estefanos, Oliver Friedman, Brian Green, Lucy Little, Alejandra Salazar and Tonsika Sarmarnivon.

It was mixed by Christopher Faisy-Bogan, additional support from Emma Taubner and Daniela Balorizo. I'm Elise Hu. I'll be back tomorrow with a fresh idea for your feed. Thanks for listening. for Faisy Bogan, additional support from Emma Tomner and Daniela Balarezzo. I'm Elise Hu. I'll be back tomorrow with a fresh idea for your feed. Thanks for listening. This episode is sponsored by Google Pixel. I am always looking for tools that help me stay curious and efficient, and lately I've been exploring the Google Pixel 9, which was gifted to me by Google. What's impressed me most is how it's powered by Gemini, Google's personal AI assistant,

built right into my phone. Gemini helps me brainstorm ideas, summarize emails, even plan out my day, all just by holding the power button. For example, let me show you how easy it is. Gemini, summarize my unread emails. Re, away next week. Jonathan confirmed with Elise Hugh about rescheduling a meeting. Reminder, development committee meeting tomorrow at 12 p.m. Central Time. It's super helpful for staying on top of things without feeling overwhelmed.

Or when I needed a quick dinner plan, I snapped a photo of what I had in my fridge and Gemini gave me recipe ideas. It's like having a research assistant right in my pocket. If you can think it, Gemini can help create it. Learn more about Google Pixel 9 at store.google.com.