TED Talks Daily - What happens when your dog uses the internet | Ilyena Hirskyj-Douglas

Episode Date: July 3, 2025

Imagine this: you walk into a room, and your dog is on a video call with their fellow canine friends. Computer scientist Ilyena Hirskyj-Douglas thinks the notion of a social internet for animals is not far off. She explores what happens when animals control their own technology — from parrots making friends online to monkeys choosing their favorite audio tracks — and shows how this technology transforms our understanding of animal consciousness.Want to help shape TED’s shows going forward? Fill out our survey!Learn more about TED Next at ted.com/futureyouFor the Idea Search application, go to ted.com/ideasearch Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

You're listening to TED Talks Daily, where we bring you new ideas to spark your curiosity every day. I'm your host, Elise Hwu. I never thought I'd see the day where I walk into the room and see my one-year-old Golden Retriever Oscar video chatting with a friend who's also a golden retriever. It might make some people laugh, but for computer scientist Ilyena Hershkij Douglas, the notion of a social internet for animals isn't far off and is one she's actively exploring. In her talk she shares why giving animals access to technology can make

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unites expertise and tech so you can outthink, outpace, and outperform. So you can stay ahead. So you can protect what you build. So you can create new value. Visit pwc.com to learn more. That's pwc.com. Pwc refers to the PwC network and or one or more of its member firms, each of which is a separate legal entity. Many of you out here will have a dog at home that's potentially cut off and isolated from anyone right now. We as people have managed to bridge this

divide just with a quick swipe of our phone, able to contact a loved one with video call or a telephone call. My research asks what if we do the same for animals? What if we allow animals to use the internet and connect online? Now you may be laughing and think this is a really strange idea, but many of us already use technology with our pets. Many people here will have collars which have trackers on, able to detect whether a dog or cat is at any point. And we as researchers often use screen technologies and various different sorts of technologies to monitor and measure animals' cognition and behaviour.

When we start to think about it, we actually control a lot of our animals' lives. We control what they eat, we control where they go, we control what activities they do, and we even control their friends and who they see. What if we could instead use technology to flip this script? What if we could use technologies to enable animals to have choice over their lives and control, including their social life. So I began this journey when I was 21 and I got my dog, Zach, who you can see here. At the time, I was studying a Masters in Computer Science. I got really into building Arduino and Raspberry Pi and low-fidelity computer technology.

And I was sitting one day on the sofa with my dog, and I started to think, what if he could also control the TV with me when we were watching it together? What if, as well as me changing the channel, my dog could do the same? And importantly, would this even be what a dog would want? And so I began to build my dog and many different other dogs' computer devices.

I began building these screen devices that detect when a dog gets close and then place them different sorts of videos. After using this device with various different dogs, what I found is that all dogs introduced to this device would use this, without any form of training. While they use it, we really don't know why they would use this device. We don't know if they understand the device, but to keep using it implies some level of enrichment, some level of understanding. implies some level of enrichment, some level of understanding.

Later on, I then moved to Finland in Helsinki, and I was visiting the zoo, and I started to realize that many other zoo animals also have little control over their lives. And so I expanded my work, and I started working with white-faced sake monkeys, but these are a tiny species of monkeys, typically live about mid-range in the rainforest and rather elusive. I built them this tunnel device that, again, similar to the dog device, whenever they enter, would play them different audio and different sorts of videos.

I gave them these two devices over several different months, and what I found was fascinating. We found that these monkeys significantly like watching underwater barracudas and jellyfish and mealworms, which makes more sense because they eat mealworms. And what they like listening to is really heavy beeping traffic noise, which makes completely no sense.

And like I mentioned before, it's not only about what they use it for, but also the impact on them. So we started to look at also the changes in their behaviors. Does using this device change something about them? And what we found was they significantly reduced their scratching behavior, which can be seen as a stressful behavior. And so we start to get onto something more powerful here, that giving animals technology not only gives them a choice and ability to control their lives,

but it also gives them something which impacts their well-being and improves their health. Now, as I mentioned before, we don't really know why animals use technology. Is it because it gives them a choice? Is it because of the stimuli or videos or audio that it gives? Is it something totally different? We don't really know. We can't ask them a questionnaire the same as we can do when we do research with humans. This marmoset monkey, for instance, researchers gave a light switch where

they were able to turn on and off a light inside their own enclosure. From having this light switch, what researchers find is they would continually turn on and off this light. And they suspect they do this not because they want the light, but because it gives them control over their environment. It gives them predictability. And so you can see it's really confusing and sometimes

unknown and complex on why animals would use technology in the first place. So I kept developing different devices for animals, from heating devices, audio devices, and different video devices, but I started to realize that we still control the most fundamental part of our animals' lives, which is the social lives. Global lockdown taught us that we as humans, when we are isolated, it is bad for our mental health. And the same could be said for many different sorts of animals.

Many animals live naturally in the wild in really big groups. Parrots fly in flocks of hundreds, dogs run in packs. Primates often live in really complex groups, such as chimpanzees, which come together and then go apart in a process called fish infusion. And when we keep animals in captivity for practical reasons, we don't always keep them in the same groups. There's limited cost, there's limited space, and also sometimes behavioral management. Recently I visited an aquarium and the head of research there was showing me the fish that they keep

to one side because they're naughty and fight with other fish. And so even these animals you can see sometimes are separated. So I started to wonder what if we could use technology to connect these animals together? What if we could use video calls to do this? We as humans have used video calls and this has benefited us a lot. Would animals want this and would they use this? So I started with what I knew, which was my dog. I built him this ball device which recognized when he carries it

and when he moves it around and his leaning behaviors, and it would video call me from a TV that I set up in our lounge. I gave him this device whenever he was home alone, and I waited to see if he would ring me. What I found is that he would ring me a lot. Laughter He started video calling me and developing these routines. Typically he would ring me often in the morning and then later on in the evening.

But sometimes these calls became a bit too much. Sometimes he would ring me back to back to back, and I would talk to him about our daily life but eventually I just ran out of things to talk about. And so what I did was I flipped the camera in my phone around, and instead, I started showing him my world. I showed him the people I was with. I showed him the food I was eating, buskers in the street. Wherever I was is what I showed him.

And in many ways, the technology then became a tool for him to have a portal beyond his home. But there was still a problem here, that me as a person wasn't always available, which is why I was often out of the house. I was in meetings, I couldn't keep running this study of picking up these phone calls. So I started to wonder, what if animals could ring each other instead and we just cut people out? And this brought me to parrots.

Parrots are really highly social creatures, often live in big groups, really complex, and have really deep and meaningful relationships with each other, and yet when we keep them as pets, we often keep them alone. So I started to wonder, would a parrot video call another parrot if given a choice? would a parrot video call another parrot if given a choice?

So I got my thinking hat on and me and my collaborators, we started to build a screen based system on a tablet, which had profile photos of different parrots and then taught parrots how to trigger the video calls by using their tongues on the screens. So they ring a bell to get over the caregiver. Do you wanna call a friend? Would you like to call a friend? Eleanor, who would you like to call this time?

Which friend would you like to call? You want to call Rosie? Okay. We then gave Paris a system for a couple of months, and what we found was they used the system a lot, similar to my dog. Because they had a choice of friends, we also could look at who they called, and what we found is that they actually had favorite friends in the same way that me and you have favorite friends we like to call.

We also found that they did more calls the more they were called in, so there's an element of sociality here then. We then looked at what behaviours they did within the calls, and they did such vast and wonderful different behaviours. For instance, they groomed together, they also played together, they showed each other their toys, they groom together, they also played together, they showed each other the toys, they danced together, and they even sing together. But still we face the problem that sometimes parrots want to trigger a call and the person had to set up the system or the other parrot wasn't available in the same way we were in France and they're not always available. And so I started to wonder, could we change the system?

In essence, does it matter if the other parrot is live in real time? Can we just play videos instead? And so I modified the system. I rebuilt it and put in these video versions of parrots. So these were videos of parrots in video calls rather than live calls. I then introduced the parrots to these new video versions and gave them back the system to use. I was asking here, can a Parrot tell the difference

between a live and a pre-recorded version of the system? And what I found was when we gave Parrots the system, there was an immediate behavior change. Parrots reduced the amount of times they triggered calls within the system, and also reduced the amount of time they spent in the calls. And this wasn't a gradual, this was instantaneous as soon as we took away the live interaction. Now while we don't know what a parrot understands about being online, we're still very much looking at this with people.

What this starts to imply is that parrots somehow are able to tell and potentially make some understanding of being in the digital world. Now, parrots don't live alone. They also live with their caregivers. And so we also ask their caregivers, how did they find this system? Because part of making technology for animals is also making sure that it works for those around them.

When we surveyed all caregivers, what we found is that a hundred percent of caregivers said that their bird benefited from this system. They said that they felt closer to the bird, that it helped their relationship with their bird, and they had more trust in there. that it helped their relationship with their bird, and they had more trust in there. However, beyond these different animals using this system, and there's much more out there, the findings really go beyond this. We are starting to begin to uncover, really, that animals have social awareness and understanding

of potentially being online and each other. By using the systems with animals, we're starting to discover that animals have really complex and deep needs. They have lots of different emotions, and maybe they prefer heavy traffic noise rather than Taylor Swift like us, but we're starting to uncover more about them as we go. I also see a really bright future for this sort of technology. Imagine if you put your dog into the vet and you're still able to connect with them to

video call and they're still able to connect with their friends. We keep many animals in zoos that for, as I mentioned, whatever reason are separated, maybe we could use technologies to connect animals together and keep in touch with family groups. Now, I'm biased because I build this technology, but I really see the enormous potential that this technology can bring. It's got so many exciting possibilities,

and 100% of animals we've given this technology to so far use it, and it benefits the relationship for their caregivers. So the next time you make a video call to a loved one, just remember that a parrot might be doing the same, reaching out across the divide, seeking connection and companionship in their own unique way. Thank you very much. Applause That was Ilyenna Hurskish-Douglas at TEDxManchester in 2025.

If you're curious about TED's curation, find out more at TED.com slash curationguidelines. And that's it for today's show. TED Talks Daily is part of the TED Audio Collective. Find out more at ted.com slash curation guidelines. And that's it for today's show. TED Talks Daily is part of the TED Audio Collective. This episode was produced and edited by our team, Martha Estefanos, Oliver Friedman, Brian Green, Lucy Little, Alejandra Salazar, and Tonsika Sarmarnivon.

It was mixed by Christopher Faisy-Bogan, additional support from Emma Tobner and Daniela Balorizo. I'm Elise Hu. I'll be back tomorrow with a fresh idea for your feed. Thanks for listening. How sometimes a single experience, one moment, one place can shift your perspective entirely? Travel does that. It moves us not just physically, but emotionally, even spiritually. We deserve those moments. That's where sell-off vacations come in.

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