Ten Minute Bible Talks Devotional Bible Study - JP on Online Dating, Cancel Culture and Cryptocurrency | An Interview with Jonathan "JP" Pokluda

Starting point is 00:00:05 Welcome to 10-minute Bible Talks, where we connect the Bible to your life in the time it takes to get to work. I'm Keith Simon. And I'm Patrick Miller. Also, if you want to connect with us, follow us on Twitter at TMBT Podcast. You can also check out our hashtag, hashtag, Ask TMBT, where you can ask us anything, and we'd love to connect with you. On today's episode, we have Jonathan J.P. Pekluda. He is the author of Outdated and a number of other books. He's a pastor at Harris Creek Baptist. He's a former leader at the porch. And if you're interested in connecting with him online, you can check out his sermons. And also, you might check out his Instagram. He's a thing called Friday Q&A. It's a great way to connect with him, ask some questions, and learn more. JP, it's great to have you on a show. Like you, I am a millennial. And so I've got to ask you this

Starting point is 00:00:57 question, which millennial stereotype drives you the most crazy? I think, well, one, thank you for having me on the show. I'm excited to be here, Patrick. And I think the stereo, that drives me the most crazy is that millennials are lazy because I see a generation that wants to do something bigger than themselves. And I see an older generation that doesn't know how to motivate and inspire them. And I think once we unlock the code to motivating and inspiring them, millennials are not lazy that they are incredibly ambitious. I love that answer. Yeah. I mean, they can raise, you know, seven figures overnight with a Kickstarter or some sort of crowdsourcing. and the older generation is just scratching their head.

Starting point is 00:01:40 Well, that's what I like about it. You're blaming Gen X and baby boomers. Yeah. It's a good little passback. Okay, so I was on BuzzFeed earlier today, and it had 11 stereotypes of millennials. I won't read them all to you, but I kind of want to give you your millennial test to see if you fit any of the stereotypes. You game? Yeah, I'm down.

Starting point is 00:01:59 All right, here we go. Millennials find their first dates online instead of in the real world. Is that how you met your wife? No. I met her in the real world at a party. Okay, but what do you think about online dating? Good, bad, in between? Yeah, I mean, I think it's here to stay.

Starting point is 00:02:13 I don't think it's going anywhere. And with all, you're choosing your problems. And so the problems you choose with online dating, you know, I would just say never date strangers. And some people were like, well, how am I supposed to do online dating then? Not all platforms and apps are created equal. So I would have an affinity for the ones that find common interest and common relationships. And I would check somebody's reference before I find myself at a,

Starting point is 00:02:35 table with a stranger. I want to know who they know that I know. And you just got to know, like, here's the reality. Profiles lie. And particularly, I would talk to your female listeners and just say, I don't care what he said in his bio about himself. You should not trust it until you verify it. And so, you know, you can be a six foot two bodybuilder that, you know, rescues widows widows from burning buildings. cares for orphans, you know, while you make your seven-figure income as a professional athlete on the side. Like, just know. And they can memorize verses. And I don't care if it says, you know, his favorite Bible verse up there or he's learned Hebrew. It doesn't matter until you verify it. Profiles lie. You know, it's always good to have a friend who knows Hebrew, because if you're going to get a Hebrew tattoo,

Starting point is 00:03:28 I mean, the odds that you end up spelling that thing wrong are very, very high. So, I mean, most people that have those tattoos. I think tattoo artists have an incredible sense of humor and just they say something crazy in Hebrew all the time. And, you know, all these non-seminary students are walking around with just ridiculous things. I have never seen a Hebrew tattoo that was correctly spelled. The first time it's ever happened to me, I walked up to a guy and he had this little tattoo on his arm. And I said, why do you have my father as a rock on your arm? And he's like, what? That's not what it says. I'm like, no, dude, that's exactly what it says. So, okay, let's hop back into our millennial Here's our second one. Millennials choose to live with their parents instead of finding

Starting point is 00:04:07 their place on their own. You still live with your parents, JP? Be honest. I'm not. I'm out. I'm out on my own, man. All right. Hey, that's good. Okay, here's another one. Millennials can't survive a day without their phone. Can you survive? Guilty. See, I'm kind of guilty too. I'm asking these questions off my phone. I feel like such a fake. Okay, two more. Okay. Social media has turned millennials into a bunch of narcissists constantly seeking validation. You know, I hope that's not true of me, and yet I'm confident that it's impacted my selfishness, if that makes sense. Like, I'm confident.

Starting point is 00:04:40 I'm more self-centered and less who Jesus wants me to be because of social media, and it's something that I have to fight on a regular basis. Yeah, I totally agree with that. It is such a temptation on social media to become entirely about yourself. All right, here's our last one. Millennials are lazy AF. You already answered that one. He said that's your least favorite one. So we already went through it. We don't even have to answer it. Here's what I want to talk to you about today. In your books, you talk a tremendous amount about transparency.

Starting point is 00:05:10 You talk about being honest about struggles in your life in a way that makes a lot of pastors and even a lot of Christians feel uncomfortable. Why are you so transparent? Why does that matter to you? Someone might say, JP, why do you got to air your dirty laundry in front of everybody? Why does that matter? Yeah, it's interesting. that you said, why does transparency matter to the critic, I would say, why does guarding your stuff and protecting your perception, the perception that others carry of you matter? Well, it's because social media made me a narcissist. Yeah. And I think really, like, Jesus sets us free from that, like that God is in charge of what

Starting point is 00:05:44 others think of me. And what I see in the scripture is that he calls us to be children of the light. James 516 says, confess your sins to each other. John 1 just says this idea that we are free from those, that we can confess that at first John 1. And so this is the pattern in the Bible. So the scripture is my authority, my conscience of my guide, and I want to live as a follower of Jesus, then, man, I'm free for my sin. I don't have to pretend like it's not there. I can actually use it to set others free.

Starting point is 00:06:11 It's like we're all in a cage and we can't get out of the cage. And maybe the cage is pornography or maybe it's an eating disorder or maybe it's narcissism or maybe it's self-righteousness. But we're stuck in this cage and we can't get out. And it's like Jesus comes up and he opens the door. And he says, you can get out now. And as we walk out, he hands us a key. And he goes, here's a key. And you're like, what's he giving me a key for?

Starting point is 00:06:31 And you look up and you realize there's people all around you in the same cage you are in. And that key is your story. And as you share your story, the Holy Spirit unlocks that cage for other people. And you say, hey, Christ set me free. I was in the same cage you were in. I too was addicted to porn. I too was addicted to sex.

Starting point is 00:06:46 I too was addicted to drugs. I too was addicted to myself. I too was addicted to my performance. But Jesus Christ set me free. And as you share that story in specificity, people's hearts are unlocked. It's like Bray Brown said, empathy is one of the most powerful forces in the world. That's a biblical value. That's a Christian value.

Starting point is 00:07:04 If we can empathize with someone, if we can say, hey, me too. All of the sudden hearts are softened toward us as we share the gospel. They're open to it and the Holy Spirit moves. So if I've got that tool on my side and I know that God tends to work in that way, why would I not share my story? Then it's like people will say that. They're like, man, why do you know, say such? explicit things or talk about your past or whatever. I'm like, man, you don't understand. My inbox

Starting point is 00:07:29 is full of. I'm so thankful that you said that I've never heard a pastor say that, wow, I finally have hope for the first time. And that's just fuel to the fire, man. I'm like, let's go. I want to keep unlocking cages. I love that. So along the lines of transparency, one of the questions I've been asking myself, and I've been asking a lot of people as we're kind of coming out of the pandemic, of course, depending on where you're living in the nation, that might be different. But a lot of people are coming out of the pandemic now. And I ask people, is your faith in a better place now than it was before the pandemic? How has the pandemic impacted your walk with Jesus? I'm curious for you, J.P. As someone who's open and honest, how do you think it's impacted your walk with Jesus?

Starting point is 00:08:07 Yeah, I think I am in a better spot than when the pandemic hit. And it was hard. Man, my father died of COVID in 2020. And so definitely, you know, decision fatigue was real. So that would be the thing I would say I took a major hit on is just making all of the decisions trying to care for the body. But all in all, I do feel like I'm in a better place now than going into the pandemic, but I don't want to make light of it. And I'm an enneagram 7. I'm an extrovert. My wife is an introvert. She's a two. And so like the pandemic was the greatest thing that ever happened to her. She's like, we can stay home. We can't go anywhere. This is awesome. And I was like, I'm losing my mind. Like, I need to get some flights to somewhere fast,

Starting point is 00:08:50 or I'm going to die. And so, you know, that's a lot. was really hard even in our marriage that was challenging, but I think we came out in a better place. That's great. I know a lot of people who still haven't come back to church or maybe during the pandemic, they lost a habit of going to church. These are people who, I mean, really were having a great walk with God before the pandemic, but it broke habits down and something got left behind. And so I'm just curious to people who are maybe coming back or they're like, man, I don't really miss church. What would you say to them? Or maybe a slightly different question is, what are you seeing? Are you seeing people filling the Jesus gap with other things during the pandemic?

Starting point is 00:09:25 Yeah, for sure. I mean, what I say to them is what the Bible says. I would say, you know, do not forsake the gathering together. Some are in the habit of doing, but continuing to encourage each other all the more while you see the day approaching. And so that's Hebrews 10, 24, and 25. That's the scripture. And the author of Hebrews, the Holy Spirit is brilliant in putting that in there saying, hey, there are some who are in the habit of not gathering together. And so here we are,

Starting point is 00:09:54 there are some who are in the habit of not gathering together. What do you think the cost of that is? I think the church is the ecclesea is this military term that means the assembly of the people. And so the cost of that is in some ways the church is weakened because there's less assembly going on. And in some ways the church is strengthened in that those who are committing to assemble, assemble. And so I'm not like calling for civil disobedience. I don't want to be misunderstood here. I'm just saying we cannot under-prioritize gathering together. And we need to think through, okay, how am I going to make sure that as soon as I can I do? And how can I do so in a way that is legal and appropriate and submissive to the authorities around me, but still allows me to

Starting point is 00:10:41 experience some sort of community, whether that Zoom or teams, technology, or gathering in smaller ways and living rooms, whatever that is, we should do that. We should prioritize that. You know, one thing I've noticed, I've even seen this in my own life, is that, and this is especially true of a lot of my friends who are also millennials, that a lot of people are becoming more angry, that one of the net emotional results of the pandemic seems to be a rise in frustration, seems to be a rise in irritation, and that anger can be coming from all kinds of things. Have you seen that in your community? Do you see anger in your own life? without a doubt. I said the other day on Instagram, I said, you know, sometimes somebody around

Starting point is 00:11:19 who is going to be outraged. You're going to try to figure out what the problem is or what they want from you. And I just said, what they want is to be outraged. That's what they want. And it just seems like that is the cry of the culture right now. It's just like, what can we be outraged about today? I just want to be outraged. I think people are angry. I mean, it's, and it's a, it's a petri dish of issues, you know, politically, socioeconomically, the things that are happening in our country, racially, churches, denominational, like anything that we can divide for, we will. And it's almost like I think in the spiritual realm, I actually believe this, that Satan just kind of gathered all the demons, all the dark forces of the spiritual realm and just said, all right, boys, all

Starting point is 00:12:07 we're about to just unleash every spirit of division on this country that we possibly can. Like turn families against each other, turn husband and wives against each other, turn churches against each other, turn races against each other, turn political parties against each other, just divide, divide, divide, divide, ready, one, two, three, go. And I think that's a lot of what happened starting there in 2020 that we just weren't ready for. and the other issue, Patrick, is just that we get in these echo chambers of social media. And so I feed my prerogatives. I feed my predispositions.

Starting point is 00:12:44 I feed my beliefs. And I don't listen to what my brother thinks or my sister thinks. I just keep feeding my ideals and my values. And so they get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And then when I stumble up against someone who believes differently than I do, I'm just outraged, just like a ticking time bomb. and the same thing is happening on the other side so that when we meet in the alley, it's time to throw down. And I'm just saying, hey, it's sinful, it's wicked, it's satanic, it's ungodly, and it must stop.

Starting point is 00:13:14 Like, we cannot keep doing that. It's not what a follower of Jesus Christ is called to. So shut down your social media. Get off the internet and sit down with someone at your kitchen table and make, make them a meal and love on them and ask them what they believe and share in a civil way what you believe and agree to disagree where you need to but love each other. Stop hating people because they're not like you. That's prejudice.

Starting point is 00:13:47 Like if we want to deal with racism in our land, like the greatest prejudice I see is that we can't love somebody who disagrees with us. And again, it's satanic, man. And the church will not win under that banner. Like we have to go back to the things that Jesus called us to do, which is love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love our neighbor as ourself. Yeah, it seems to me that, and you named a lot of the different, a lot of the things that are dividing us right now. But as I look out, I see people being disciples by their political party. In fact, I see people being disciples perhaps more by their political party than they are in the ways of Jesus and how

Starting point is 00:14:26 Jesus calls us to love each other and treat each other. They're being disciples by their social media. They're being disciple by a million things right now. And a lot of that's come because there was a vacuum in their life during the pandemic where they weren't in church. They weren't connecting with God. They weren't following. And so, of course, something's going to fill that gap. Something's going to want to teach you.

Starting point is 00:14:43 Something's going to want to train you. And I think you're making an interesting supposition, which is that, hey, you know, who wants to train you? The devil. That's an easy answer. He wants to disciple. And this isn't the way of Jesus. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:14:53 And a political party can't disciple somebody because we're talking about something innate. Like, it doesn't have the power to sit down. with someone and teach them something. It's the media. And it's all kinds of media. You said social media, certainly social media, but it's all kinds of media. It's the echo chambers of the media that we consume, be it through TV, commercial, through YouTube, through Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, whatever it is that we're going to to gather information. We're just stuck in that echo chamber, and that's discipling us. And that may be under the banner of Republican or Democrat or something else, but that's just the news that we're feeding our hearts.

Starting point is 00:15:31 And the problem is when you feed your heart or when you feed anything in life, it grows. It gets bigger, it gets stronger. And sooner or later, it devours you. And this is the brilliance of Proverbs chapter 4, verse 23. It says, above all else, guard your heart for it is the wellspring of life. Anything you do flows from it. He says, more than you protect anything in the world, protect your heart, because it takes you places. and that's what we're not doing. We are feeding our heart. We are setting it at the buffet of hatred,

Starting point is 00:16:04 and it's not going well for us. Yeah, Steve Jobs invented the best disciple maker in history since Jesus. These things have an incredible ability to shape us, transform us, mold our values, and make us in their own image. One of the things you talk about in your books, this is kind of along the transparency theme, is the need to be honest, to talk honestly about issues that people are facing. And you've talked about how, in your sermons. You'll talk about finances. You'll talk about sex. You'll talk about hot topic issues. But as I look at the things that are dividing us right now, it feels like we are in the midst of a culture war. And obviously your book came out, or you were writing your book before the pandemic. But how do we talk about issues like race, like transgenderism, like women's rights?

Starting point is 00:16:46 I mean, these are the things that millennials really care deeply about and we have strong opinions about. And what I hear a lot of Christians saying right now is don't talk about that stuff. talk about the gospel. That stuff doesn't matter. You need to focus on the gospel. And I kind of want to resist, but I want to know what you think. I mean, should we be talking about that stuff? How do we talk about it? Let me give you a differing opinion. I don't hear Christians saying that. I honestly do hear Christians talking about it. I do hear people taking their sermon series and making it around that and, hey, let's do a sermon series on race and let's do. And I think a lot of people are asking for that. At least I know as a pastor, I've heard, hey, when are we going to address this issue or when are we going to this or why didn't you say something about this? And there's always something to talk about. I mean, in the news every week. And I've addressed a lot of the bigger issues that we've seen in the news

Starting point is 00:17:34 lately and yet you can't do it enough. Like someone is, you know, maybe they missed that sermon and they came back and they didn't hear. And they're like, hey, why haven't you? And so I'm not like, hey, we just need to talk about the gospel. We do always need to talk about the gospel. But I think we need to teach the manifold wisdom of God. We need to teach the Bible and we have to apply the scripture to what it says about race, what it says about prejudice, what it says about sexuality, what it says about gender, what it says about these major issues, we should apply the scripture to them. And so any preacher and every preacher should address those things regularly, not just when their hot topics. Not just when it flashes in the news that particular week. It's like,

Starting point is 00:18:22 hey, I'm not a news outlet. Like, that's not what I've done. You're not coming to CNN or Fox when you show up on Sunday. Like, if you want to see what's in the news, watch the news. What I am going to do as I'm a Bible teacher. I'm going to teach you the Bible and I'm going to teach you how to apply the Bible to your life so that you know God, you understand his character and you leave with an understanding of what he desires from you. And even more specifically and more nuanced, as it relates to the culture, the time and the space that we exist in, and what's happening around us. So I'm not like, hey, we just need to share the gospel kind of guy. And yet I am like, hey, we just need to teach the full wisdom of God that he's given us.

Starting point is 00:19:01 And over time, learn how to apply that to the specific situations that we're in. So can I tease two things out here? Like the challenge, and you said this with transparency, is that I don't want to tear myself down. I don't want to wreck my own image. I'm chained by whatever sins are in my life. and I can't get out. There's so many different reasons why it's difficult to be transparent. And yet, I found that when people are transparent, for the most part, if they're not in a

Starting point is 00:19:25 hyper-judgmental community, people are accepting. They're willing to hear it. They're willing to love. They're willing to be gracious. But when it comes to being honest about some of these challenging issues that we're facing in our culture right now, the opposite case almost seems to be true. It seems like both sides are very, very angry. Both sides are outrage.

Starting point is 00:19:43 Both sides are hostile, and it creates a chilling effect where it's difficult to talk about topics precisely because if I do, what are going to be the consequences? So how do we as Christians get over that? How do we get over the hump and have honest conversations about the issues that are facing our culture? You said, because if I do, what are the consequence going to be? The consequences are you going to be canceled? Okay. And then our cancel culture. And so stop being afraid of being canceled. Like, listen, I'm going to be canceled. Like at some point, like, I'm going to be canceled. That's okay. This is all right, man. And then I'm going to die and then I'm go to heaven. Jesus can be like, well done, good and faithful servant. Hey, look at all this stuff

Starting point is 00:20:17 that I have for you. Like, well, like, here, welcome to paradise. And so, like, it's okay. Like, why do we follow a savior who was crucified and fear being crucified? Like, I want to be like Jesus. Paul says, I want to, I want to fellowship with Christ. I want to know him and the fellowship of his suffering. Right. And so, like, maybe the greatest thing that can happen to us is that we would be canceled. Like, why do I need to fear that? Like, I'm, you know, and so I think that's what we lack is courage. Like, hey, I'm not afraid. And don't be, like I said in the get-go, like, don't be irresponsible or unthoughtful with your posts. You know, a friend of mine who's no longer with us, Chuck Colson, Charles Colson, talked about winsome engagement. And I think that's such a

Starting point is 00:21:09 great word for this day and age. He also talked about the spiral of silence and what happens when nobody says anything. And so I think we need to say something and we need to say something winsomely to meet people where they're at to be well versed in the culture and the things around us. But we can't keep our mouth shut and know that when you say something, you might get canceled. And that's okay. It's not a measure of obedience. You can never determine, Patrick, you can never determine obedience by the outcome. Like obedience is obedience regardless of what happens. And I think too often in America, we determine obedience by our perceived outcome.

Starting point is 00:21:47 We say, well, if I do this, what's going to happen to me? And if what's going to happen to me is bad, then I won't do it. It must not be the right thing. No, sometimes you do the right thing and you get thrown into a furnace. Sometimes you do the right thing. You get thrown into a lion's den. Sometimes you do the right thing and you end up in a well or sold into slavery or crucified. Like sometimes that's what happened when you do the right thing and you're supposed to do that thing that gets you crucified.

Starting point is 00:22:14 And that's okay. Yeah, it's interesting. I think it's been a cost of the cultural ascendancy of Christianity in America for several decades before the last few where we expect to some degree to have a seat at the table. We expect to some degree to have power to be in the room where it happens. That's what we think Christians have is we can look back in our recent history and find examples of those exact things. And now that we're in a situation where our being faithful to Jesus means resisting, in my opinion, ideas on both sides and both camps. That means I lose a seat at the table because no one likes me.

Starting point is 00:22:47 No one wants me to be involved with what they're doing. But because we're so used to being there, we don't know how to suffer anymore. We don't know how to be Daniel getting thrown to the lion's den. We don't know how to go inside of the furnace. And so I think you're making a good challenge. It's good for my heart to hear because it is fearful. The other half, though, so I think part of it's canceling, and I do think canceling happens on both sides. I think another bit is relationship, right?

Starting point is 00:23:08 It's family members. It's friends who I really cherish. I really love. And I'm afraid that when they ask me that, I've had this happen. Someone asked me a question. I'm like, oh, why'd you ask me that question? Like, I really liked you. And I know what I'm about to tell you is going to make you not like me anymore.

Starting point is 00:23:21 And I just want to just sit here and be silent because I care about our relationship more than this topic. Yeah, like what kind of friendship is it that I can't be myself in? You know what I mean? Like, is it really a friendship if when I express my, my values around something you no longer want to be my friend. Like that's not a friendship. And so, I mean, like, I talk about relationships a lot. Recently wrote a book outdated. And I just like, if somebody's going to break up with you or not be with you for you being you, they don't really like you. They like their version of you. Like, they like what they've made you to be in their

Starting point is 00:23:58 minds. And so I think that's really important. And so then what I would say to that person who's experienced that heartbreak, you don't mean to be cold at all because I know it's it's real and the sadness is real is just like man god is what a blessing like what a gift that god protected you from that because what if you stayed in that friendship for seven more years only to find out that they never really liked you they just liked who they made you to be in their minds and so i think it's good to get all of the disagreements out in the way and a real friend is like man i love where we agree and i love where we disagree there's this guy on my staff and he and i we just have a lot of different perspectives.

Starting point is 00:24:39 And he's always really the first person I call. I'm like, hey, what do you think about this? Because I learned so much from him, right? And I don't want to surround myself with a bunch of yes people, right? I want to be sharpened by other thinkers. And I'm okay if you disagree, as long as you're thoughtful. This is what I would say to Gen Z. You want a real stereotype, millennials, what I would say to the next generation,

Starting point is 00:25:01 and this is a stereotype that I think is real friends. So listen, and I'm not throwing stones. Hopefully you heard me as an advocate. I've advocated for this generation time and time again. I've created resources for you. I really have given my adult life to care for this generation and pass for this generation and shepherd this generation. But I think at times we're not thoughtful.

Starting point is 00:25:21 Like we go with the mob mentality. We see what everybody else is doing, what everybody else is saying, and we jump into the current of culture and we get swept away and you're not thoughtful. And I would say, hey, it's okay. Like be a contrarian. Be a Noah. Maybe God has called you to build a giant. boat when it's never rained in the middle of a field where there's no water nearby. Maybe God's

Starting point is 00:25:40 asked you to do that and maybe you're the only one on the planet earth with enough faith to do it. So be a Noah, you know, just be thoughtful in whatever you do. Make sure you know not just what you believe, but why you believe it. I can even say that to myself. There's something that happens and I do think it comes from social media where you stop reading articles. You stop reading long form thought. Instead, all of a sudden, in all these posts, they're like, they have a grinding effect. And they take deep thought and they grind it down into these little pebbles and their headline length. And I have no idea what that headline actually means without thinking about it sleepily, without reading about it. And yet I think I'm an expert because guess what?

Starting point is 00:26:18 I read a headline today. And the headline said it. So it must be true. And I do think we need to move beyond the headlines. In fact, I think one of the best things people can do might be putting up the news for a while. Instead, opt for reading something like the Atlantic that has long form, you know, articles or a different thing that's coming from the other side of the political spectrum, that's dealing with things in a long form, thoughtful way. Because if you get stuck in the world

Starting point is 00:26:41 of the headlines, I mean, gosh, it's tough to get out of. Profiles lie in online dating, headlines lie. They're all clickbait, you know. And so it's just like, whatever they can do to get you to click to click on the article because clicks equal profit. So I do have to say, sometimes I'm impressed by those headline writers. I'm like, man, that's a good line. Like they got me. You got me on that one. Do you think that there's a place for selflessness in the midst of this, though, like with the family member, you know, it doesn't matter what I say. You're entrenched in your beliefs. You are outraged about your side where I'd say, okay, you know, I've got to die myself. I'm not going to talk about my beliefs with you because I'm just going to focus in on the

Starting point is 00:27:16 relationship and say, I care about you and I'm not going to be about me in this room. You've already called me out and my MO is transparency, right? And so I think I would say all of that. I would say, all right, John, I'm making up John. I'm making up that name. All right, John, or Jane, for that matter. I know you've asked me this question. I want to answer you honestly. Here's my concern that if I answer you honestly, there's going to be a wedge driven between you and I. And I'll be honest, I don't want that wedge. I care about you so much. I love keeping you close. And I'm afraid that if I answer the question that you asked me, truthfully, you're going to pull away from me. And that's not really what I want. And so now let's just talk about that.

Starting point is 00:27:54 Do you want me to answer the question, you know, will you commit to not pulling away from me? or can we just bypass this for now until we continue to grow our relationship stronger into a place where I think, hey, you won't reject me if I tell you the truth. And a lot of times people will just, they'll be like, wow. Yeah. I don't want to do that. And they start to see the error their own ways, you know, and that's discipleship in some ways.

Starting point is 00:28:18 That is great. Okay. Can I hit you with one last question? It's in this realm of the pandemic, but I'm going to totally take a different direction. Cryptocurrency. You say that you talk about finances with people. that's obviously been something that existed before the pandemic, but during the pandemic, people had more time to start researching it, getting into it. And I hear no pastors talking about

Starting point is 00:28:37 cryptocurrency. Now, I'll be candid. I'm not invested in cryptocurrency. You don't have to say whether you are, although I am kind of curious if you are. Yeah, I am. But what, you are. Okay, so tell us about that. Very minimally. Let me just say that. I'm a pastor. So I'm like I use the term invested very loosely. But, but yeah, like I own a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a Bitcoin. I think that's what everybody owns, except for the people who got in early. Yeah, yeah. And so here's the deal. It's like in the heyday, and it's not the heyday, which is probably still in the heyday.

Starting point is 00:29:07 I was going to say the heyday of internet pornography. And really all I mean by that is like in my heyday of internet pornography, I just remember like pop-ups would come up. And like when I would use my computer and this is before I knew Jesus, right, porn's a huge part of my story. When I would use my computer to look at pornography, it was interesting like how many computers are ruined. because as you dabble in those dark places where the enemy lurks, there's all kinds of viruses, and I'm speaking in a literal realm now. Computer viruses.

Starting point is 00:29:33 Yeah, computer viruses that take over your computer, and all of a sudden these pop-ups come up, and it's just like the darkness overwhelms your computer, and the human bodies this way, too. But that's a rabbit trail. Let me just say this. There's a part of cryptocurrency that is used for evil, and C.S. Lewis says,

Starting point is 00:29:50 so great as something's potential for good, equally great is its potential for evil and vice versa. So great as something's potential for evil, equally great is its potential for good. I think it's an overstatement. But what he's saying is if something has a lot of good, it can also be used for a lot of bad. And so the same is for cryptocurrency. And I do think that's true of all currency. I mean, money's used to good and bad things. It doesn't matter if it's a dollar or a Bitcoin. Money is a root of all kinds of evil for sure. I've read that somewhere. And so I think that we just need to be cognizant as we play in this realm that there are some dangers and some pitfalls, just like the internet,

Starting point is 00:30:27 right? I mean, there's some, the internet can be used for good, but there's some real pitfalls and some traps that you want to stay away from. And so if we invest in it, we should invest in it wisely, like the stock market, somebody's going to say, well, what's the difference between that and gambling? Very little is what I would tell you, very, very little. But there is a difference in that you're not just betting on luck, if you will. It's not just how the lot falls. You can inform yourself. you can read, you can see where trends are going. And so there are some external sources that you can be educated to to make a wise investment. And at the end of the day, when we're talking about currency or money of any kind, we're called to be the best stewards of God's resources that we can be. We are his financial advisors,

Starting point is 00:31:08 if you will. All of the money in the world is his. And so the money that I have is actually God's money, and I just steward it for him for a season. And I want to make sure that I invest it in ways that makes an internal dividend. And so that's the way I think about it. I don't have, again, I don't have a lot of money. So that's helpful in the equation. And a very small fraction, maybe the smallest investment of I have invested anywhere would be in Bitcoin. And some of that's just, you know, the higher the risk, the smaller the investment to see what happens. Yeah, you know, one of the things I've wrestled with, again, as someone who hasn't invested, and I'm really not that judgmental of it either way because I haven't done enough research on it, is that it does seem to have brought in

Starting point is 00:31:47 this element of play into finance. I think that's there in day trading and other things. There's almost a gamification that you're trying to game a system, which does seem to relate it almost a little more closely to gambling. But I think you make a good point that these lines are really artificial. And so we really need to wrestle with the bigger questions on the table, which is, do I see this as my money or God's money? Am I stewarding this for my sake and my glory and my wealth? Or am I stewarding this for his kingdom and his purposes in the world? I think that's a way better framing mechanism. Yeah, let me tie this whole thing together. We started talking about transparency and what cryptocurrency gives you is anonymity. And I'm not a fan of anonymity. Right. Like people do

Starting point is 00:32:28 dumb things when they think they won't get caught for them. And in the kingdom, there is no anonymity. Right. Like God sees everything. It says one day everything will be unveiled. All of our secrets will be exposed for all to see. And so I'm just like, I'm a fan of like not waiting until then. Like, right? I just want to get them all out right now, have no secrets. And so I think that is the dark side of cryptocurrency. That's great. Well, thanks so much for being on the show, JP. It's fun talking to you. You've obviously had a big influence on a lot of millennials life. And I hope that this episode can just be one little drop in that bucket. Absolutely. I encourage your listeners to pray for their friend, JP. And thanks for having me on. Patrick. Yeah. Would you actually

Starting point is 00:33:08 pray for our listeners? We love to have our speakers do that. I love it. Father, I do just ask that you would reach deeply into the hearts of every pair of ears that hear this right now, anybody that's listening and that you would introduce yourself to them if they do not know you. And if they have a relationship with you, Lord, that you would stir their affections for you, that they would love you more because of our time together, that they'd be engaged and interested in the topics at hand and that their spine would be stiffened, that they would be courageous as they enter back. into the world and that they would be winsome in the way that they engage culture, that they'd be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. We love you, Lord. Amen. Amen. Thanks for listening. If you've enjoyed this content, please subscribe and give us a rating. That helps other people find this podcast more easily. Also, ask yourself, who could you share this podcast with? Texting an episode to a friend or a family member is a great way to to help them grow spiritually.

Starting point is 00:34:13 If you want to go deeper, check out our show notes for book recommendations.

Ten Minute Bible Talks Devotional Bible Study - JP on Online Dating, Cancel Culture and Cryptocurrency | An Interview with Jonathan "JP" Pokluda

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