Ten Minute Bible Talks Devotional Bible Study - What the Living Can Learn From the Dying: Seeing Through the Eyes of a Dying Man, John Drage

Episode Date: March 19, 2020

Want to join our 4-week Zoom Bible Study, "Are we living in the end times?" https://info.thecrossingchurch.com/zoom-online-bible-studies (Sign-up today). We start Friday April 3 from 12:00-12:30 with a 15-minute Q&A afterward. "If God gives an answer, what I would do is argue with him. There's no answer that someone could give you, your wife, your kids, that you would say, 'Oh, okay, that makes sense.' So I think, instead of giving us an answer, God gives us something better." After years of ministry and a life dedicated to Christ, https://www.johndrage.com/ (John Drage) was diagnosed with one of the most deadly forms of cancer. It's taken a toll on his mind, body, and family. But he hasn't lost faith. Listen to his conversation with https://www.thecrossingchurch.com/staff/keith-simon/ (Keith) to find out why and what he's learned over the years. Interested in more content like this? Scroll down to see more resources and related episodes, including an episode on https://www.thecrossingchurch.com/podcasts/how-to-deal-with-the-storms-of-life/ (How to Deal With the Storms of Life) and a daily devotional on https://info.thecrossingchurch.com/rest-and-recovery-daily-devotionals (Rest and Recovery). To learn more, visit our https://www.thecrossingchurch.com/ (website) and follow us on https://www.facebook.com/TheCrossingCOMO (Facebook), https://www.facebook.com/TheCrossingCOMO (Instagram), and https://twitter.com/thecrossingcomo (Twitter) @TheCrossingCOMO. Your support makes TMBT possible. Ten Minute Bible Talks is a crowd-funded project. Join the TMBTeam to reach more people with the Bible. Give now.

Welcome to 10-minute Bible Talks, where we connect the Bible to your life and the time it takes to get to work. I'm Patrick Miller. And I'm Keith Simon. In this episode, John Draghi stops by, and I get a chance to visit with him for a few minutes. John and his wife, Amy, have been in Columbia since the early 90s, and they've spent all these years ministering to college students on campus. But about a year ago, John was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer. During this conversation, I start by asking him some questions about college ministry, how it's changed over the years. But pretty quickly, we get into his diagnosis and what that's meant for his

family and his faith. John is a wise guy. And we can learn a lot by listening into him and hearing how he and his family have been processing this. I think you'll really enjoy it, feel like you'll learn some stuff. You can follow John's story at John Draghi.com. J-O-H-N-D-R-A-G-E.com. Thanks for joining us. If I remember right, and I might not, because I'm not really good at this kind of thing, but I think we first met in the early 90s. Is that about the time you came to Columbia?

Yep, I arrived the fall in 91. You and... And Amy and didn't have any kids, and we were about to resurrect a dying little campus ministry of seven students. And what was it called back then? University Bible Studies. Okay. It was our campus ministry.

and yeah, gosh, old days. You came from Bowling Green? Bowling Green, Ohio. So we went on staff with what was Great Commission Ministries, and I was reliant, and they said, how about you go to Missouri? And for us, it was the state past Illinois. And he said, okay, let's go.

You sound like Abram getting called out of his homeland to go find a new country or something. We went west, yeah. And so you've been in Columbia since then, and I think you've even lived in the same house this whole time. time you've been here. So we lived in a little apartment for the first six months, bought a duplex, and then four years later, after we collected a couple kids, my wife said, I want to be near campus, and we bought an old house right next to campus in 95, and have lived there ever since and raised

our four kids there. So how old are the kids? Like, they range from what age to what age? 21 to 26. So three boys and a girl, three are married? And are they all in this area? Three live here in Columbia, and my oldest son lives in Fort Collins. but he's here just hanging out for these six-week period just to be together. That's awesome. So you have been in church ministry for a long time? Yeah, 30 years. It's been a great time.

And is it always been in campus at Missouri, or has there been some other things you've done? Yeah, always campus at Missouri. So when we arrived, Valley View was our host church, and we had that campus ministry out of Valleyview. And in 2000, we started The Rock, which is autonomous campus church. This is my understanding. And you correct why I got wrong, but just so people. know the Rock is a church comprised mainly, not exclusively, but mainly of college students. I mean 80%. You meet on campus, but you meet on Sunday mornings and have a worship service like

you might experience at any local church. Yes. Because we thought, hey, let's target this demographic. Hardly anybody's being that effective at touching this demographic from a church perspective. Obviously, the crossing is doing very well. But what are the three most important things in business, location, location, location. And so we said, hey, let's start the rock. And I think the rock started almost the same month as the crossing did. Yeah, I was going to say 2000 is when the rock started, and that's when the crossing started. So we've been kind of doing the same thing at different parts of the community for the last 20 years.

All right, so this isn't the main thing we're going to talk about, but I have to ask you. You've worked with college students for 30 years or whatever. How have you noticed that they've changed, especially spiritually, have you noticed? Have you noticed a significant change in the last? Oh, I think students are very different. When I got here in 91, you got here before me, I think. I got here in 90, so yes. I don't think I'd ever met anybody and talked to anybody who was suicidal.

Don't think I'd met too many addicts. Never met a girl with an eating disorder. Never really counseled anxiety and depression or panic attacks, where we deal with that multiple times a week. here. In the last three years alone, you know, the suicide pastoral visits are happening. You know, and we've seen it. So the brokenness of culture, I think the loneliness too, which is interesting, campus is full of people, but they're more lonely than ever. I think the devices, some people want to blame the device. At some level, the device is an excuse to go alienate, and they do that. So the device is

awesome too in some ways. So we just saw all kinds of things have changed. What do you attribute that to? Is there anything you've been able to figure out and be able to say that these changes loneliness, isolation, depression, suicidal thoughts, eating disorders, brokenness? Have you been able to put your finger on anything and think this might be the root or no? Maybe it's our affluence. We're so rich. Are you seeing the affluence of college students increase as well? Oh, for sure. I mean, when we went to college. We paid for it ourselves. It really didn't take us that long to pay up back our loans. I think college is mainly for wealthy suburban kids. So maybe that's why we're seeing it. And I think we're just so distracted and the pressure to succeed. So what we see on the internet,

whether it's Facebook, everybody else's pictures, but we know everybody's business and we know how well they perform or don't perform. So the pressure to go get our value from what we do does seem greater today than what it was before. So that pressure, maybe that's what makes I'm anxious. Am I going to be smart enough to get that job? Am I competitive enough? I mean, I think we felt pressure to take a test, but not like the pressure I'm seeing. Say, young guy or lady, she's pre-nursing, there's a lot of pressure on some of those classes, and rightly so to do well so that they could go do that major. And the major is not just important because that's, a good job, but it seems to define them more. I mean, our performance, even for us, I mean, 50-year-olds,

we're tempted to define ourselves by our performance. I don't think we fought that that much when we were undergrads. Are students more open spiritually? So they're more broken, or do you find that they're really not? The spiritual openness, the spiritual climate, is it the same, warmer toward Christ, colder? I'd say maybe a little colder. They're more flaky. So you would think if our mentality is if we produce a good, I don't want to think like a business, church isn't a business, but if we produce a good product, whether it's a Sunday morning service or a Bible study or a community group, that people will come back.

Well, I think even when we do a good job, they don't come back. I don't know if they're skeptical. They've got a lot of other options to do with their time, that's for sure. Totally. But I still think potentially when even 40, 50 years ago, we went from believe to belong to behave. I think today, almost everybody that we went to Christ, they belong to our group six to nine months before they believe and put their faith in Jesus. Then their behavior starts to change. And so our best weapon gets to be love, which is always our best weapon, even more than truth.

Obviously we're going to give them truth. but our best weapon is to melt them with hospitality and love and inclusion and listening. And that seems to be effective, but we have to get the beat with them in order to do that. And so it's also more difficult to get in the dorms because the dorms here at the University of Missouri are probably 95% freshmen. When we were undergrads, it's probably maybe 50% freshmen, 25% sophomores, 15% juniors and 10% seniors, which let us get our undergrads that were older in the dorms to minister and to meet. So the challenges are all over. I really like what you said, though, about we're seeing the same thing, belong, believe, instead of believe and belong.

And in some sense, that gives us a great open door to build relationships and to care about people and to show them that we care about the community and their life. But it's very time intensive. And you've got to really embrace people. and it's a challenge. I could sit and visit with you about campus ministry. I mean, I love this stuff and church ministry. But I want to transition for a second, and that is I don't exactly know this story.

So would you go back and tell me when you got this diagnosis, this health diagnosis? Just explain to me when it was, what is it, all that kind of stuff. You give you a one or two minute version. So in November of 2018, I got this really weird headache. I mean, it was strange. I saw these colored images floating across my vision. I'm driving to the wreck at 6.30 in the morning to go swim, and I can't see the clock right in my truck.

And I come back after swimming, and I'm just completely exhausted. And I just have no energy. I sleep almost the rest of the day. And then, you know, the headache comes on, and I go to the doctor, and he says, I think it's a migraine. So he gives me some migraine medicine. That lasts until early February. First week of February, I have the headache of my life.

It doesn't go away for a week. And I go, gosh, I go to the doctor. He goes, okay, try these. Go to the doctor again. I say, give me a shot. Something. I mean, I'm dying. And then a couple days later, he says, let's do an MRI.

So I come in late in the evening on a Tuesday, do this MRI. He calls me at home and says, I got bad news. There's a big tumor in your brain. So two days later, I'm with the neurosurgeon, Dr. Bondrant, here in town, he's amazing. And he says, well, I don't know what it is, but we're going to have to take it out. It's about the size of my fist on the right side of my head. So he takes it out February 19th, and on February 20th, he gives me the diagnosis that it's glialblastome. It's the worst of the worst brain tumors or brain cancer that you can have.

The good news was he got all of the big tumor, but on the first of the big tumor, but on the, the edges, they find gliobestoma cells, and so they're there. Then we begin this challenge of who's going to provide cancer care for you. But before you ever get cancer, you don't even know that you have to pick somebody. And so a couple of my wealthy influential friends said, you're going to go to MD Anderson, which is the best cancer hospital in the world, and whatever it costs for travel and all that, we'll cover it. And so within a week or maybe two weeks, I'm receiving treatment down at MD Anderson. That's in Houston, right?

Yeah, in Houston, massive hospital. They treat 2 million patients a year. And is the cancer that you said, I won't even try to pronounce the name of it, but is that the same cancer that John McCain had? Yep, John McCain, Kennedy, that's a killer. It's the median life expectancy's 18 to 20 months. And you got this diagnosis in 2018? 19.

2019, so we're about a year since then. Yeah, maybe 13 months in. And so when you received that diagnosis, they gave you, maybe you'd live 18 months? 18 months, yeah. That's what the median life expectancy is. What was kind of encouraging, I should say really encouraging, is a patient like me is what they call a high performer.

So if you're relatively young, which, you know, I'm 53, that's young. If you're in good shape, that's really helpful. And I've been training and running Iron Man's. If you don't have any other health issues, you're going to do better. Well, that's what they said. The first seven weeks we did 30 radiation treatments and I started this chemo. That was good and I started to do the keto diet as well to maybe starve it of sugar. That was good until November of this last year.

And then a recurrence came back in my brain. And then we watched it for a month and it grew. So then Dr. Bondering this December did another surgery to take out all those. There was like five tumors, one kind of a little big and five little ones. that was on December 19th of 19. But during December, my back was starting to hurt strangely, and I thought it was because I wasn't working out. But we discovered on January 9th that the cancer had spread into my spine.

And so cleobestoma does not metastasized, but it got between the hemispheres of my brain and those cells just started migrating down my spine. I had five tumors in my spine, a big one at the body. bottom. So in the middle of January, we went back to Houston and we radiated them real hard. And it relieved a lot of that pain. We think that's been doing really well. But at this point, there's no need to go down to Houston. So we're here doing cancer treatment in Columbia. I'm able to get more radiation down there if we need it. I'm taking the last chemo that's available unless my new

doctor just finds a new one and all of our care is happening here and we're just fighting. The other thing is that in that January time, our doctor who was always really wide open, that Dr. Harrison down in Houston said, my wife's like, how long does he have? And she said weeks to months and that was on January 10th. I'm feeling pretty good. I'm really tired at times. I'm fighting. I'm shaking a little bit. We're in the Lord's hands. So the cancer is the cancer, right? But what I want to talk to you about is how you have been processing this spiritually. You've walked with God for a long time since becoming a believer. You and Amy and your whole family is based your whole life on these truths found in the scripture about Jesus and the gospel and eternity and all

of this. So what's changed in your family since this diagnosis? Well, we've always been tight. Our family talks. We talk about what's hard, what's good, what's bad. We've had lots and lots of meetings, lots of family meetings. So the family meeting that happened on February 20th of 19 was really intense. Dad's got glioblastoma, and we all sat in our bedroom and cried. I think we're all in a different phase of grieving. We haven't, we've decided that grieving starts now, not whatever happens to dad. We're trying to spend as much possible time together as we can, and we continue to have meetings. Lots of times I've had a counselor or a pastor friend come and lead the meeting.

I mean, I could lead somebody else's meeting, but I can't lead mine. And so we've become tight. We decided that we needed to go on an extra family vacation. That was sweet. We took the kids on a cruise, and then we're trying to do all these dad trips, and I've got two out of four done. So each kid you're trying to do a special trip? Yeah, my number three kid, Caleb, he wanted to go to Yosemite. So we booked four flights to Reno, got a condo in Lake Tahoe, and drove to Yosemite and saw the El Capitan and the Hapiton and the big trees and oh my gosh.

And just getting those special memories because we just don't know how long we get. Well, anybody who knows you in the past has known that you're pretty intense, passionate guy. it doesn't surprise me that you and one of your sons would go to Yosemite. I'm sure you wanted to climb the El Capitan probably. He did. He's a climber. I bet I could have gotten you up on that at some point in your life. Yeah. If you could talk to the John Draghi of, say, 25 years ago, back when you and I met for the first time, I was just joining, my wife and I were just joining staff with crude, come through college here.

So it's 1990. We're going on staff with crew. You're coming in with Amy. close to the same time, you're going on staff with another campus ministry. As you think back to that, John Draghi, then, if you could go back and what would you tell them? You know, I read this article years and years ago, and they asked 90-year-old people if you could do life again. And I've been quoting this for 25 years. What would you do different? And they all say, reflect more and risk more. I think we made a lot of good risks. I'd take some more

risks. The 53-year-old realizes, hey, when you play it safe, you don't get much done. But if we take risks, but potentially reflect more, asking ourselves, or myself, why did you say that to that person? And then maybe we could make more adjustments. I was at a FCA meeting with all these MU athletes and one of the girls we did a Q&A, and she said, what do you regret? I said, well, there's probably three different cases where I said words that hurt people in ministry over the last 30 years. I can't tell you that they were careless, but I wonder if I'd reflected more earlier on those kinds of issues. Maybe I could have avoided those mistakes, but I said what I said and, you know, there's been consequences to hurt people. So potentially that reflection piece gives us a little bit more

prevention from having hurt someone. Our words, especially when we're in positions of power, can hurt people. They carry a lot of weight, don't they? They do. I mean, just like the doctor. Why is the doctor careful with saying, I think you have six months? Well, because she doesn't want to put that in my head. And we pastors can do that. I mean, I think we're aware of it, yet maybe if we get more sit time, and I've spent hours and hours on the prayer trail and been with Jesus. But I don't know, maybe reflect more. I just sit and then maybe make some more risks. I mean, there's all kinds of little things that we can do.

Like risks in relationships or risks in ministry or risks climbing El Cavitan? What kind of risks? Maybe risk buying another house, right? I mean, for retirement, there's that house. I didn't buy it. Maybe I should have. I'm a little bit conflict diverse. As a pastor, you can't be too conflict diverse.

But there's times when we. sense maybe we're supposed to correct somebody or bring up an issue and we're real hesitant or oh my gosh this is going to hurt them i mean i've got one right now and i'm i'm probably going to swing at the pitch on wednesday if i bring this up with this guy it might hurt our relationship but we know that correction and reproof and ironing and sharpening iron is important yet that's really risky you know or there's a couple that wants to get married and you're like Well, boy, I don't mean, if I say I think you guys ought to wait for a year, that might really mess up our friendship. I mean, those are pastoral pitfalls.

Maybe they're everybody's pitfalls. But I think if we reflect more, maybe I have a better shot at getting the courage and the strength from God or even the confidence that those conversations have to happen. What's interesting to me is that when I ask you to think back and what you would say to yourself 25 years ago, the way you responded and all that was mainly by thinking of people and relations. You know, maybe people that you hurt and you're grieved about. I mean, I've been doing that this year. Or people that you wish you would have spoken more truth or whatever it was. It's the people that you think of. It's not the projects or the initiatives or the ministry campaigns or the houses.

It's the people that really make life special. When you think back about the 30 years of ministry, what do you think most satisfaction in? Oh, my gosh. It's super easy. Last weekend, I got the gift of a lifetime that I know of no one else who's ever gotten. My friends threw a tribute to what Jesus has done in my life. And hundreds and hundreds of people came, the guys that I multiplied my life into and disciples, we went really deep.

Because I was campus, I got to cheat the limit rule, and I went really, really, really. wide and really, really deep. Many of the guys that I disciples came back and they said things that I didn't, I mean, I knew I had a massive impact in their life and their life, either they came to Christ and then went nuts and being in love with Jesus, just seeing them and hugging them and going, man, that guy's a pastor, that guy's a pastor, he's a ministry leader, he's an elder at his church. I mean, there's hundreds of guys and amazing.

women. I didn't minister to women as much. I mean, but obviously over the years, some are really, really close, missionaries and pastors. And you go, Jesus said, go make disciples of all the earth, right? And so my freshman year in college, I bought the Great Commission. And that became our life. And even Dr. Bright, I mean, Dr. the crusade founder, and he impacted me. And to go be a disciple maker. Let's go reach the world. We're going to do it through making disciples. And so getting to see them and hug them and they all can't, well, I shouldn't say all. But a lot we're there. And when you think back in your ministry, it seems like that, again, it comes back to people. Like we just said earlier, all that investment in people, time with people, being patient with people, listening to people, praying for people.

Gosh, teaching them how to share the gospel, helping them memorize scripture. or getting them out on the prayer trail and helping them. Like so many guys said, John, you taught me how to pray. I'm like, that's good, that's really good. You know, and so what else mattered? And we also, that house that we bought in 95 right next to campus, Amy and I, as this last year we've been reflecting a lot, was our smartest move because thousands of kids came through the house.

And so if those students, I don't even think we knew it. My first was born in 93, second in 95, 97, and 98. But we moved in in 95, and so many students came and they just hang out at our house. And it became their safe place. You really practice the hospitality, the belonging before you believe. That was your philosophy from the beginning. I don't think we could have described it. Well, no, but you just brought people in your home and loved on them.

Yeah, and students are there. One crazy story, so I don't even know what year it was. I'm sitting with the student, shared the gospel with him, helped him write his prayer. He accepted Christ, and my 10-year-old son, Josh, walks in. I said, Josh, I don't even remember the student's name. Josh, this guy just prayed to receive Christ, and he's a believer now. And Josh, 10 years old, my oldest, now he's 26. He goes, just right now?

I go, yeah. And so Josh, give him a big hug or something. And so it was really... But that's what happened. and our house became that, it still is. Sometimes I think we make good moves, but we don't even know it. Maybe that's because the Lord's just leading and helping us. Old guy named Samuel Johnson lived in the 1700s. He was an Englishman, and he said death has a way of focusing the mind. And ever since you got this diagnosis and told you were going to have a shorter time to live than maybe you planned on, let's put it that way.

I like that better. Because I'm asking for 15 more, you know, just like Hezekiah, give me 15 more. What have you found that your mind's been focused on lately? If death focuses the mind, what's your mind been focused on? I want to finish well. When we were young, many of the messages and sermons we heard were about the rare guy who finishes well. I'm going to finish well.

I want to use my gifts until I can't use them anymore. And so that's kind of more of an inward side. I'm also trying to figure out who do I have unfinished business with, and then let's go try to finish that business. My relationship with the Lord this last 13 months has been amazing. I'm overflowing with thankfulness, like I don't even have to try. Potentially, when we're younger, we're taught to intentionally be thankful, which I think is really good. And, you know, I teach people.

I have this big list of things to be thankful for. It's called a better than I deserve list. And, you know, I think it's always good for us to do Thanksgiving on purpose. But for me, especially even maybe the last four or five, six months, it's supernatural. Something's happening that I'm not putting on. And so I'm overflowing with thankfulness. But at the same time, I know probably. for the last 20 years, 25, I've been consciously fighting my insecurity, my desire to go prove

myself or to be good enough, successful enough, strong enough, which is the antithesis of the gospel, but I fought that fight for years of fear. Now, even since the diagnosis, I'm not even fighting that much. I'm really, I'm not even fighting fear, which seems kind of ridiculous. And I've been super real and open and like, John, are you missing something? And so I don't know, my walk with them. My experiences in the Word are, I love the Word of God. I've been looking at it for 38 years. It's popping off the page. Has your diagnosis in this fight with cancer, has it changed your theology? Has it changed your experience of God? But, well, this is the simple way I say it.

And some people may say, hey, I don't like that. I strongly believe that God can heal. I mean, if somebody wants to fight me on and say that I have a lack of faith, I'm not sure that he wants to. I don't see the promise that he will. I see the promise that he can. And we keep asking, and I have people, you know, probably have more people praying for me than anybody.

I mean, it just seems like thousands and thousands. people are praying, which feels like a total privilege. So my theology is deepening in the same way. I believe that God is a king and he's accountable to no one. I believe that early on in my Christian life, probably between my senior year in high school and my freshman year in college, I had been a Christian since my freshman year in high school that I just kept on giving him more and more of me. And I'm a soldier.

I'm just one of his soldiers. And I belong to him. So when we memorize Job 1315 in my little version of it, it says, even though he slay me yet, will I trust him? And that's my verse 25 years ago. And I brainwashed myself with it. I mean, that's kind of a sarcastic way to say it. But I belong to him so he could do whatever he wants with me.

And I think if we believe that and we live that way long enough, right now I'm experiencing the consequences of a whole bunch of surrenders. And that's what we're doing. Like when we do a conference or a retreat or even a service, we're trying to secure a commitment from people in the audience, a commitment to give more of them to Christ. You know, and so how many times have we sang the song, I surrender all?

Well, maybe after seeing it 100 times or 300 times, we believe it. Yeah, God's prepared you for this moment. I think so. I mean, I'm experiencing the consequences of, I don't want to say it in a self-way. of building my life on the rock. And so if we do build it, I'm not saying that I'm not sad or disappointed or grieving or that I don't probably cry every day. I do.

Yet I know where I'm going. I'm eager to get there. But at the same time, it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. Convinced of this, I know that I will remain as long as he wants me. That realness and that depth, I'm experiencing it. In Ecclesiastes, it says that it's better to go to the house of mourning. than the house of feasting. And I've always kind of made this joke to our church that I'd rather go to a funeral than a wedding.

Because at a wedding, we're worried about things that, like, are you walking the right pace down the aisle? Or does your boot and ear straightened out? In other words, things that I think are superficial. Don't get me wrong. Marriage is incredibly important. And weddings can be really special. But there's something about a funeral that cuts through all the superficialities and petty things of this life. and you really are paying attention to what really matters.

And so in Ecclesiastes, when it says, better to go to the house of mourning than the house of feasting, because it says a couple verses later, you learn more there. Is there anything you've been learning? Maybe you've been sharing with your family or your church or your friends. What have you been learning lately? Anything that comes to mind?

A couple things. A lot about words. Maybe it's because of my reflecting in the few times. times that I've done hurt with my words. So I'm going back to that verse we memorized in college. I'm sure you memorized it right. Psalm 1914. May the words of my mouth and the meditations of my heart be pleasing in your sight. Oh, Lord, our God, our rock and our Redeemer. And obviously the words come out of our heart, so we've got to work on the heart so that the mouth does good. The mouth isn't the problem. The heart's the problem. And so if we can work on heart, that's been a massive thing. The other thing is

before the headaches even started in November of 18, probably for three years, I knew and all my friends knew that I was supposed to slow down. What do you mean you're supposed to slow down? You said, I'm intense, I'm intense. I've worked 65 hours a week for 30 years, building relationships with people. I think that was really good. I don't know anybody who just goes nonstop. And so how long can you really break the limits of life or the boundaries and get away with it? Well, I tried.

You know, I mean, I was, you know, I was the pastor of the rock. I'm the national LT director. I oversee all of our national projects. I'm on the board of our network of churches. I'm regional director. You got four kids? Yeah, I have four kids. Yeah.

I got four kids. That's a lot. I directed our summer project, Anestis, for 18 summers. And I run Iron Man's on the side. And so I think the Lord, he was calling me to slow down for those three years. And I'm trying to read books and think. If you could go back and do it again, do you think, not for health reasons, but for spiritual reasons, your own relationship with God, your relationship with your family,

your personal health, would slowing down have been wise? Or do you think that you look back and you go to all those 65, 70-hour weeks, that's part of what came before you last Sunday in the same thing? celebration service. How do you factor that together? Well, okay, so in my opinion, the most spiritual man of the last hundred years is Dallas Willard. Dallas Willard is a philosophy professor. Died a few years ago. Yeah, just an amazing man, super spiritual, wrote some amazing books. Professor at University of Southern California, I believe, USC philosophy professor. He's amazing. And so he is really good friends with John Orteberg, who I think is the most effective

communicator alive here. I mean, he's just amazing. Maybe Bethmore's better than him. But Dallas says to him, this is what you need to do to be truly spiritual. Ruthlessly eliminate hurry. And so I don't know that the problem is that I went long and hard, but I think I was kind of ruled by hurry. And for hurry, that fear of not getting it done, that fear of maybe disappointing somebody, that fear of maybe I'm not enough. When we go, back to the performance treadmill, if that's the fuel that's making me go so hard, and that's the fuel that's taking me to hurry, that's got to go. And so Jesus wants to root it out. And, you know, he's never finished with us in disciplining and just helping us become more like him. And as we go

longer, it's going to get more painful. It has to. And so I knew that I needed to have a different pace. Again, not for health. That was fine, but for beauty. And this is really interesting. So about a month ago, we're in a staff meeting. And I have a staffer. He's Kyle, wonderful guy, 28 years old. And I tell them all in the staff meeting that I'm weak. Hey, guys, I'm way weaker than I've ever been. I'm weak. I can't go as hard. I'm not thinking as good. We talked about it for 10 or 15 minutes and then Kyle says, John, that's the best thing I've ever heard you say. And it helps me because now I don't have to keep up with you. And I didn't even think that the example I was setting, he couldn't do. So he was able to be more honest because you were honest. It took pressure off him

because you. Yeah. Well, he already felt the pressure because, you know, the five years that he's worked for me, he's like, man, I can't do this. I can't work like he does. Right. how unfair that was, and I didn't even know that I did that. So when I finally admitted that weakness, which helped him, but it's real, but I think the cancer made me slow down. It did. I mean, I can't, I'm tired. You know, maybe I'm human, which, that sounds ridiculous or even cocky to say, yet I think

just my experience in life just being so driven, but that fuel has to change, ruthlessly eliminate hurry from your life. Dallas Willard's words that's coaching to me even today. And the cancer helps me. It's a physical thing that's limiting what I can do. And even that angst to hurry, I'm being a hurry. Again, I don't think working hard and hurrying are the same problem. One thing that I hear you talking, it doesn't, well, I don't think you think you're at the mercy of cancer.

Oh, no, no, I'm in the grip of Jesus, not in the grip of cancer. You don't see cancer as controlling the narrative of your life, not at all. You don't even see your, like, cancer fighting drugs or it's not where your hope is. No. How do you think about that? Right soon after the diagnosis, my daughter's father-in-law, they were at the house, and he loves Jesus, and he said, you are not in the grip of cancer, you're in the grip of Jesus. Now, you know, we're not going to say, hey, we're not going to do any medicine.

and we're just going to trust God, don't do medicine. But of course, we do the medicine. But Jesus is going to decide when I'm done. He's ordained all the days for me. I've trusted him at some level. I mean, I'm really ready to go, but I don't want to go just because of my family and my friends. Who knows? But at the same time, I'm eager to go.

But he has this race mark out for you. He does. Yeah, I think he's sovereign. He does whatever he wants. And so if you and I build a around. relationship with him over, you know, for me right now, it's 38 years. Can I trust him? That whatever he wants to do, if he wants to take me home, great. If he, if he wants to leave me here to serve, that's what I want to do. Yet, I don't know that trust did not get built in a day and it didn't

get built in a week. Yeah. So lifetime. My lifetime. And my struggle is saying it like that. So I don't want to brag and say, hey, guys, I did Matthew 7 like it said to, and look what's happening. I don't want to put the credit to me, but I think if you and I attend to this relationship with God for a long, long time, and that seems to be our human responsibility, I think God delivers. He's never failed. He keeps his promises. He is, and I think even emotionally, granted, we're mourning all the time, but at the same time, we have a hope that is beautiful. So at the end of the gospel of John, Jesus and Peter are talking, and they've gone through the whole, feed my sheep, all that stuff. Do you love me, feed my sheep? And then Jesus seems to be telling Peter, if I read it right, that one day he will be crucified. And then he says this, Jesus said this, meaning to Peter, Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. How do you hope?

and pray that your death will glorify God. That's an awesome question. One way is we've realized in the last year that God's made me a preacher about this issue of suffering and death, and so I'm going to keep on talking. We're going to do the blog. And my desire is that this attitude of trusting God and continuing to tell people the good news lasts until I don't have any breath. And that's what we want to do.

He is the commander-in-chief king. And again, I don't know how that I got convinced that I could trust him, but I do. And he's super good. This thankfulness keeps flowing on me. And I think it's maybe because people are praying or maybe supernaturally the Spirit of God's just doing that in me. And it just gives me peace. And I think, you know, we remember from the Fox's Book of Martyrs, right?

Peter said, you're not going to crucify me normal. I'm going upside down. So Peter had this intense desire to glorify God. And I do. My verse for the whole cancer thing, and I was real hesitant to share it with many people because I thought maybe it should just, something should remain somewhat private. But I don't really care about private is, you know, when Paul says to the Ephesians, elders in Acts 20, I'm going to appeal to Rome. They all know he's dead. And so he says in Acts

2024, which I'm memorized in college, just like all these verses, right? However, I consider my life worth nothing to me. If only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me, the task of testifying to the gospel of God's grace. That's what I want to do. I want him to be glorified with a good attitude, but also with me to sing, hey, guys, we believe in heaven and it's a great place. You said that you're a preacher about God's grace, or I'm not sure exactly how you said it, but I think God's grace in suffering or,

and that you want to keep doing that. There are people listening to us who are suffering, different than you, maybe some of the same as you, some different. Some aren't suffering now, but have just come out of it, or we'll go into it next week, and they don't even know it. Somebody's a friend going through suffering.

Can you give us just a couple nuggets of maybe truth that you've learned or what do we need to keep in our head when we're going through suffering, how do we persevere in the middle of suffering? Just give us a couple of things. Here's a thought. So, Philippinez 310 is my life first, right? I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection. Then we have that little phrase, and the fellowship is sharing in his sufferings. The two days after the diagnosis, I went on a four-mile walk, and I said, I guess we're here now. Fellowship of sharing and his suffering. So the fellowship is when two humans or even us and God can be so close in the midst of our common pain.

What else is better than that? To know God is with you. God's with me. I mean, so, you know, a couple times in the last month, I've had this nasty joint attack. And it gets both ankles, both knees, both hips. And on a scale of one to ten, ten being the highest pain, and I've never been at a ten. I'm probably a four or five. And what am I going to do with all that pain?

Now, sometimes it makes me cry. I'm just aching and trying to get it to go away and hope the pain medicine kicks in. Yet I've been trying to just say, Jesus, can you be with me in this? Because he knows pain. So we're having that fellowship, which I think is really good. And CS-Lewis said it, right? Pain is the megaphone with which God speaks. God can't get our attention any better than when we're hurting.

What's happened to me when I'm around other people's pain in the last 13 months, especially in the cancer hospital, I'm just thinking this is supernatural too. I'm pretty empathetic normally, but man, my empathy's like going through the roof. There's people I see them hurting and I don't even know them and I go over and talk to them and pray with them. I probably did that before. But at the same time, I think I'm more acutely aware of, people's pain. And mine, just like fasting, right, we fast, we starve the body so that we can

awaken the soul. I think in the same way, when pain rises, it awakens the soul. Okay, so you're saying that we need to remember that God is with us, this fellowship of the suffering, that we're not alone, that he knows what we're experiencing, he's experienced pain, he's walking through it with us. And then we need to realize that. that God has brought this into our life for something good, that he's speaking. It's his megaphone, that he's speaking into our life. And so if we can keep in mind that God is with us, it comes from his loving hand, that he hasn't abandoned us, that he is at work in our life in and through this. It gives you a different perspective on your suffering. It sure does. I mean, because

probably no other culture in human history has worshipped comfort like we do. So our number one goal, especially as American, seems to be comfortable. So if we worship at the altar, and there's nothing wrong with comfort, comfort's awesome. Yet, the number one goal is that I'm going to become like him. And, you know, these have happened so that your faith of greater worth than gold may be proved genuine and pure. So lots of people have been saying to me in the last two months, John's battle is about faith and how he's teaching people and revealing it himself, be a battle of faith, rather than a battle to beat the cancer. The real battle is, are we going to walk with God through this mess?

I'm defending the goodness of God in a tender way to lots of people. Because people, you know, sometimes they're texting or Facebooking about how this is so unfair. Why did the nice guy get cancer? John, you've done more good than anybody I know. And God's, he's screwing this up. Because they think that if you do X, Y, and Z for God, he owes you, right? And God doesn't hope it's nothing, right? And so isn't it funny?

Jesus had to confront all the formulas, religious formulas of his day. And so do we. You know, so if you do good and you act right and you're nice, you should get a nice, easy life. And you should live to 80 and die in your sleep. Of course, Jesus lived about the best life you could live and ended up on a cross. Exactly. And that's our example, right? I'm not the example he is.

but and let's be careful with our formulas. John, there's a lot of people, like I said, who are suffering or who will suffer. As we kind of wrap up here, would you pray for, pray for everybody listening to this, but would you pray for the people who are in the middle of some difficult times? I will. Let me show this story first, and then we'll go there. I'm with a student. His name is James probably 10 years ago.

He's got cerebral palsy. He's on the wheelchair basketball team. His left arm is useless. He's total wheelchair bound. He went to the rock. And one time when he was heading into the rec center, you know that little uphill section of sidewalk. I watched him go up that with his left arm useless. The right arm pushed.

It was a little snowy. And then a few weeks later, he said, hey, John, can we talk? I'm struggling with my faith. And we sat in the union. And after we chit-chated a while, he said, hey, Pastor John, why do I have cerebral palsy? And I looked them straight in the eye and I said, I don't know. That's a really hard question.

But then I did say, but I do know this, and these three things matter. Number one, God loves you enormously. Number two, he has a plan for your life. I don't know that. And number three, every day he's going to give you strength to face what you have to fight. and by that time I'm crying with him. And so when I think about all of our friends suffering, and even me having cancer, John, why do you have cancer?

Well, I don't know. For sure, we know it's probably to glorify God somehow. That's kind of a big esoteric answer. But what I shared with James is still true. And even for our friends, even if I could give them the answer, which at this point in the moment, life as a 53-year-old, hopefully humble guy, potentially the answer would not register.

Like our little brains couldn't get it. So I think our option is to just hold on to this goodness of God, not in a blind way, but because he really has been good. I think if God gives us an answer, what I would do is argue with it, right? I mean, there's no answer that someone could give you your wife, your kids, that you would go, oh, okay, that makes sense. That's helpful. So I think instead of giving us an answer, God gives us something better, and that is a person, Jesus, who knows our experience, who suffered, who loves us, who's with us. So I think Jesus is better than an answer. Exactly.

Boy, that's a great, I like that. I'm going to steal that. Will you pray for us? Oh, yes. Oh, my gosh. father uh for our friends who are just struggling who are beat up and broken maybe it's a relationship or their kids are doing drugs or they're just struggling with money or anxiety or finances or wondering if it's all worth it or even if there's a sickness that seems to be

debilitating and so agonizing lord even the same even the crazy verse out of Psalm 119, it says, before I was afflicted, I went astray, but now I obey your word. And Lord, we know you're the great teacher. Your hand is on the thermostat. And whether, right now, whether we can trust you or not, we say we want to trust you. God, help us believe. Help us with our unbelief. We want to grow and this faith piece, this ability to use the muscle that says, our hope is in you. For those who are just struggling and can't even look up, God, I pray that you would put your hand under their chin and help them look up and get their strength from you.

God, I know pain is a really, really hard thing in suffering, but it seems, again, to be how you grow us and how you pull us close to yourself, because just like Keith said, It's about a relationship with Jesus. We want to grow that relationship. We want to deepen it. We want to be real. And when we're struggling, God, help us be real and not superficial because you see right through us anyways.

And as we learn to wrestle with you like Jacob did, God, would you meet us there with great intimacy? I know that's what I need. That's what my friends need. And I'm sure probably that's what every one of us needs. we trust you and oh god use this this time that we got to be together for good in jesus name amen amen now wherever you are would you take a second and pray for john take a second and pray for john and amy and their kids ask god to make his presence known in their heart and their life

that they would know that they are not alone. Ask God to give them the grace that they need to finish the race that God has given them to run. Would you pray and ask God to give him more days as many days as God wants them to have? And yet, we want God's will more than our will. And so would you just pray that John and Amy and the kids

would be able to get to that spot because it'd be hard. God, I pray that your presence would be known in the Draggies, that you would work in their lives, sustain their faith, they would finish the race, that John would hear, well done,

my good and faithful servant. And I pray the same for us, Father, that we might love you, that we might live in a way knowing that one day we too will die. Maybe it will come with a cancer diagnosis or maybe it will come sooner. Maybe it will come without much warning.

But one day it will come. And I pray, Father, that each of us would live today in a way that we'll be pleased with when we stand before you and that more than we'd be pleased with it, may we live a life that you will be pleased with. It's in Jesus' name we pray. Amen. Hey John, if people want to follow you, could you give us your blog? What is it?

John Dragy.com. So, J-O-H-N-D-R-A-G-E. That's our blog and lots of videos and lots of writing. It's been special. Thanks for being with us. We really appreciate it. Super special. Thank you.

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