Ten Percent Happier with Dan Harris - 1: Dalai Lama

Episode Date: March 11, 2016

How can you live a happier life? In our debut episode, Dan Harris sits down with the Dalai Lama and Richard Davidson, a neuroscientist and founder of the Center for Healthy Minds. His Holiness and Richardson have collaborated for years on research looking at the impact meditation can have on the brain. Please leave us a review! ----> http://bit.ly/2lkYXxT See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What does it even mean to live a good life? Is it about happiness, purpose, love, health, or wealth? What really matters in the pursuit of a life well lived? These are the questions award-winning author, founder, and interviewer Jonathan Fields asks his guests on the Top Ranked Good Life Project podcast. Every week, Jonathan sits down with world renowned thinkers and doers, people like Glenn and Doyle, Adam Grant,

Young Pueblo, Jonathan Height, and hundreds more. Start listening right now. Look for the Good Life Project on your favorite podcast app. Hey, this is Dan Harris. I am a fidgety skeptical newsman who had a panic attack live on Good Morning America. That led me to something I always thought was ridiculous. Meditation. I wrote a book about it called 10% Happier,

started an app, and now I'm launching this podcast to try to figure out whether there's anything beyond 10%. Basically, here's what I'm obsessed with. Can you be an ambitious person and still strive for enlightenment, whatever that means? So I guess this time is a pretty well-known guy. His name is the Dalai Lama, or more formally his holiness, the Dalai Lama. I did this interview at the University of Wisconsin in Madison and alongside the Dalai Lama during the interview is Richard Davidson, also known as Richie Davidson. Richie is one of the leading neuroscientists,

one of the first guys really to take a look at the impact of meditation on the brain, and he's worked with the Dalai Lama on scientific research for quite a while now. I'll be honest, and I said this in my book, I've always been slightly careful about the Dalai Lama, not because I think he's a bad guy, just because I'm firmly not in the smells and bells school of Buddhism. But I've now interviewed the Dalai Lama twice, and both times he has impressed me. I will warn you as you start to listen here. He can be a little bit hard to understand, but bear with him because he makes some really interesting points.

And after the interview concludes, stick around for something else because we then went up on stage, I moderated a discussion with the Dalai Lama in which he made fun of me quite successfully and you'll hear that as well. Thank you again for joining us. The two of you have worked for a long time, collaboratively, on science around meditation on the brain. Why is your religious leader? Why is this science so important to you?

Actually, firstly, since my childhood personally, since childhood, I have, you see, one of my nature is curiosity. … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … …a well-being of the world or humanity. And there's a concept of open mind and carry research through investigation. You see, there's still something concrete sort of evidence there, you see your mind open. That I like, you see that kind of attitude. So science is very important for humanity, for even for now world, also it's very important. In the past, the monocles are now dealing with matters of particles, not sufficient development, the mind or consciousness. So then we are dealing with human being.

So we human being, beside this physical, we have this experience. Whatever you call mind or consciousness or something. So we cannot sort of, aside, isn't that? Exclude. …it is not that. It is called exclude. So now, obviously, physically healthy person, but actually there are people very unhappy person. And also physical medication fail to bring inner peace. So we have to deal with peace of mind.

So since main sort of destroyer of peace of mind is our own different emotion. So therefore, I think obviously the drug problem and alcohol problem. They're not necessarily, you see, consider these as something sacred or something good, but some extent, although desperate, they're putting hope, some injection, drugs or alcohol, like that. So this clearly shows a society no matter how sort of materially, highly developed but still some too much stress, too much worry, too much anxiety, the wing on. So if there is no way to deal these problems, then okay, we have to rely on these drugs

or these things. But if there is way, it's to deal this problem, then we must exploit, exploit it, like that. So then, what are called meditation or some others are training of mind. I usually prefer training of mind, I usually train of mind. Sometimes it's a word meditation, I don't know. You see, simply it's a training. In meditation there are varieties, or different kinds of meditation, basically analytical meditation, and a singleed sorosity meditation.

So usually you see people consider meditation means close, I like that and mind not thinking or sometimes we call thoughtlessness state of mind. You can't remain whole your life, thoughtlessness. I can't do it for five seconds. I'm not sure I can do it for one second. So actually, I think sometimes I describe you see one of the best gift from God is this intelligence.

So without using our intelligence is quite pity. Without using our intelligence? Or intelligence, yes. So the analytical meditation goes very well. Analytical meditation and research and intelligence go together. Actually, I often see mentioning my friend, you see, they also in the laboratory research work, they also use intensively about analytical meditation.

During that period, you see, fully concentrate on particular subject, the hearing or these or smelling, not active. ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ ๑ fully concentrate in certain point and research, thinking, thinking, thinking. So that is another legal meditation. I feel, what in my own experience, the emotions also have some low level of intelligence. So compare it or counter force, destructive emotion. Also, you see, need the extensive sort of intelligence that, because of backing, just

thoughtlessness, state, thoughtlessness, temporary, okay. But long run, the effect, I think, limited. So you said a bunch of things there that I want to react to and get you to clarify a little bit. First of all, I want, limited. So you've said a bunch of things there that I want to react to and get you to clarify a little bit. First of all, I want to tell our listeners that occasionally, even though your English is very good, you do turn to your translator to help for a word.

So if you're hearing another voice there, that's what it is. And I want to talk about the difference between analytical meditation and the more traditional kind of meditation that most, to the extent that anybody meditates, most people do. But before I ask about that, I just want to bring Richie in because I want to give you credit. Your collaboration, which is brought some evidence behind the practice of meditation, has a lot of people like me to start meditating.

I never would have meditated if there wasn't evidence because I always thought it was only for weirdos and so I would have completely rejected the practice had you not come forth with this scientific evidence. So Richie let me just ask you in your work with his Holiness, do you think that you're sparking the next big public health revolution here? Well, I do think that there is, we view it as a public health issue. We take the position that health is not simply the absence of illness, and most people really have some residual level of suffering, if they're honest about their own state of mind. And we think that these kinds of practices

that his holiness is describing could be useful in helping people to have more of a more peace of mind, to generate more positive emotions, in ways that can affect their everyday life. And so I think that this is very much a public health issue and it's public health because disturbing emotions we know cause changes in the body that impact our physical health. And so there is evidence to suggest that people who are happier and who have higher levels of well-being actually have biology which is more conducive to health.

And so I think it's very much a public health issue and our aspiration actually is that these practices can potentially reduce health care costs because it can enable people to be more healthy. So, I want to state the obvious, I think we would all agree. The most important evidence is the evidence you will gather if you do the practice. So the scientific evidence is compelling, but I don't think people, it may get you to start meditating. I don't think people continue to meditate because they think their prefrontal cortex is getting

thicker. They continue to meditate because they're less of a jerk to themselves and others, and it feels better. So I think I just want to clarify. I do think the most important evidence ultimately is the evidence you will gather in your own personal experience. But along those lines, your Holiness, you were talking about the difference between the traditional

Shama to meditation, which is kind of a term of art. But the meditation, most of us, are taught as beginners, which is to focus on our breath, then when we get lost, we start again. But there's a different kind of meditation, which is an analytical meditation. What is that? I think firstly, when you develop some worry, then investigate what is the worry, and come from where, from where, come, and what is the nature. You can't find. So that itself, you see, all every sort of emotions, usually, you see, we feel some kind of solitude or some kind of sort of absolute loss, strong.

When we analyze what the nature or what the very identity of sadness or worry, you can't find. And momentarily changing. So within second, you see moving, changing. So analyze. Then the appearance of something or my sadness, something, you hear something solid, now that no longer there. So if I am feeling anger, which I do occasionally, more everybody, including as you said to me in the past, even the Dalai Lama feels angry at times, you're saying an analytical style

of meditation would look for who exactly is angry and where is the anger? Can you find it and you won't find anything so. Firstly, object sight. In the case of one human being who creates you problem and you feel very negative and with that person consider your enemy. And then your anger really feels angry, his body, or his or her body, or mind, or sound or speech. Anger feels shy, no answer. But you see, the appearance is something independent that person. That is a target of anger. So, analyze that target and dissolve.

So, anger no longer find independent target. So, some sort of scientist mentioned, I think they are on back now over 90, I think 96, 70 years old, he found through sort of decades experience when person develops anger, the object which feels angry, appears something very negative. But actually 90% of that negativity is mental protection. So therefore, you see the analytical meditation, analyses to whom, what's that person? What's the body?

And the contraption is also the body. It appears something independent, body, independent object, but analyze nothing. So nothing objectively exists. So long, observateaya, things there. So, thinking this nature, then the person, himself, herself, from where anger comes. And what is the real entity of anger?

You can't find. So that's the way it reduces the intensity of anger, or fear, or even attachment, like that. We all, I'm sorry, go ahead, I didn't mean to interrupt you. So therefore, you see, I feel it is something, you see, dealing with root or basis of this destructive motion. But simply, with the thoughtlessness, you see, your mind not go at that side, it just remains something neutral. But throw in your mind not go at that side, just as it means something neutral.

Let's draw on your mind, yeah. Well, yeah. It's fascinating because I think most of us believe that meditation is just this goal to squash our thoughts, but what you're saying is you can use the discursive mind, the thinking mind, to get at the root of our destructive emotions. We walk around with this subconscious assumption that there is some Dan in here, some Dalai Lama behind your eyes. But if you look for it, you won't find it.

And that can be a revelation. Hey there listeners! While we take a little break here, I want to tell you about another podcast that I think you'll like. It's called How I Built This, where host Guy Razz talks to founders behind some of the Take a little break here, I want to tell you about another podcast that I think you'll like. It's called How I Built This, where host Guy Razz talks to founders behind some of the world's biggest and most innovative companies, to learn how they built them from the ground up.

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the Amazon or Wondery app. Let me ask you a personal and selfish question because it's not every day that I get to sit down with the Dalai Lama. I've been meditating for six years. I was doing about a half hour a day and then about nine months ago I decided for reasons that I'm not even sure that I can articulate to go to two hours a day. I guess my question for you is should I have a goal in my practice? I think for, I think the general speaking about well-being of humanity, then our goal should be happy life, firstly start individual, then family level, then community level, then finally into a seven-believer being through awareness, through education.

It is possible. Basic human nature is more compassionate. That also now scientists will say they sort of find basic human nature is more compassionate. That also now scientists, they sort of find basic human nature is more compassionate. That really is the basis of our hope. If basic human nature is anger or negative, then useless big effort. Any effort is a result of temporary. Basic human nature is more positive, more compassionate. So there is a real possibility to build more compassionate world, compassionate humanity, compassionate world.

So utilize our intelligence, a maximum way to promote basic human value, human nature, compassionate nature. It's interesting to me that when I ask you, should I have a goal, you went directly to improving the situation for all humans. But my reading of the Suta's, the early Buddhist scriptures, the Buddha himself was talking about enlightenment. You didn't use that word. I'm talking humanity.

If humanity are Buddhist, then I will talk about Buddhism. But that is not the case. What about for an individual like me who practices Buddhist meditation? Should my goal be to try to ensure the well-being of all sentient beings? Or should my goal be enlightenment? What is enlightenment anyway? I'll get a question. In the case of the individual, of course, generally speaking, historically, Western world, not Buddhist country, Buddhism historically belongs to East, mainly come from India,

and then China, and so on, these countries. But now, in modern time, because of a lot of communication, a lot модели, 왜냐하면,很多 communication, 很多 information, 現在, as a human being, you see, there are people who really showing genuine interest and not only interest, but they find some benefit

individual case. So, then similarly, in Asia, traditionally, not Christian country, Jyodokristin country or Muslim country, but large number of Christians, large number of Muslims or Jews, it's okay. Religion is concerned, individuals write. Culture is related with the community. So, there are a number of Westerners who really follow Buddhist tradition, Buddhist practice. So, these also have the right.

Now, one important, I always make clear, individual who really found some effective results through Buddhist practice, and he saw her right to follow that. At the same time, you must respect your own traditional religion. At the time, we are really making effort to promote religious harmony. So, I'm Buddhist. From childhood, you see, I never say Buddhism is best religion. No, according to different people, to some people, it's a certain religion certain religion is more effective.

So for that person, that religion is best. Like food. We can't say thousands, different sort of meals. You can't say this is best or medicine. This medicine is best. No, we cannot say. According individuals are faced or mental disposition. So therefore, if you have a genius of interest about Buddhism,

there are two major traditions, teravada tradition or poly-tradition. There's a foundation of Buddha Dharma, then another level, the Sanskrit tradition. Obviously, the pali tradition, is mainly relying on Buddhist own word or quotation. The Sanskrit tradition extensively use reasons. So the special text logic also there.

So therefore I usually use the describe. The proper or unique Buddhist way of practice is, utilize human intelligence, in the maximum way, through that way, transform our emotion. Then our ultimate goal is, this mind, which up to now, the sleeve of this destructive emotions, ultimately ignorance, is not nature of the mind. If ignorance is nature of the mind, then we cannot learn. Obviously, through time, we learn many things. So that means basic nature of mind is clear light, clear, knowing, knowing. So now Buddha means enlightened means, you see, the ignorance part

reduced, finally completely eliminated. Then the fullness of wisdom or awareness developed. That's the Buddhahood. So, the basis of Buddhahood is clear-like mind. Can I get there, or can I go beyond 10% happier and get to what you're describing in this lifetime? Well, certainly. I think you are much younger than me. So, even you see, even you see the 81 year old person,

you see, making effort to achieve some level of enlightenment. So I'm done with why not you? You've made my day. They were telling us we're out of time, but I can't resist. I'm just going to ask one last question. And this is a more earthly question. I know you follow the news and you listen to BBC. I'm just curious if you have any views on the presidential

candidate in this country who's making the most noise, Donald Trump. Oh, that's your business. Firstly, I have no sort or right opportunity to vote. And then secondly, a short visit here. So I do not know the whole background or these things. Sometimes I feel too much personal criticism. That I feel a serious

discussion about policy matter is useful. But there's sometimes a little bit of a personal sort of criticism these things. That looks a little bit cheap. That's my view. Okay, so that's the end of the interview, the formal interview. But then after the interview, we went up on stage and I moderated a discussion among scientists and the Dalai Lama. And then, to the end of the discussion, I had a chance to ask him some more questions

during which he's in me pretty good. So here's a listen to that. As so does work, illustrates, having inter-piece during parenthood is difficult. Shortly after we had our first baby, I found myself in the middle of the night holding this screaming beast, and there was like poop everywhere. And I thought the name of my next book is going to be

everything in my last book was baloney. But I'm't translate that. I'm going to translate. I'm going to translate. I'm going to translate. I'm going to translate. I'm going to translate. I'm going to translate.

I'm going to translate. I'm going to translate. I'm going to translate. I'm going to translate. I'm going to translate. I'm going to translate. I'm going to translate. So that is the, if may I say so, just the indication of your sort of experience of meditation still in the initial stage. So now it's confirmed I'm a terrible meditator, even the Dalai Lama thing, so it's kind of like the opposite of Carl Spackler from Caddy Shack, who was told that the Dalai Lama thing. So it's kind of like the opposite of Carl Spackler from Caddy Shack who was told that the Dalai Lama has guaranteed him total consciousness on his deathbed. Thanks for listening and check out the new podcast that we just posted with the lead singer

of Weezer, Rivers Cuomo, who is a very serious meditator as it turns out. Two hours a day, so an hour in the morning, hour in the evening, I've done that every day since 2003, except for one day the morning, hour in the evening. I've done that every day since 2003, except for one day in 2009, when our tour bus crashed. But you did the two hours when you were open the hospital? In the hospital bed. If you're like what we're doing, please subscribe, please rate us, please give us a good review,

and we'll be back with much more very soon. Take care. Hey, hey, prime members. You can listen to 10% happier early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus in Apple Podcasts. Before you go, do us a solid and tell us all about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. a solid and tell us all about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com-survey.