Ten Percent Happier with Dan Harris - 100: Tom Bergeron, 'Dancing With the Stars' Host

Episode Date: September 20, 2017

On a live show, anything can happen, but Tom Bergeron trusts he can handle it. The host of ABC's hit dancing competition show, "Dancing With the Stars," has been meditating for over 35 years and credits his years of TM practice for keeping his cool and "responding appropriately" on the fly in front of judges, contestants and a live studio audience, as well as managing "a really bad temper." See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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I'm Dan Harris. So our guest this week is at first blush, at least somewhat counterintuitive. Tom Burz-Ran, you may know the guy from Dancing with the Stars, where he's the host. He's hosted plenty of other shows over the years, but he's also a long-term and very dedicated meditator, even wrote about it quite extensively in a book called I'm Hosting as Fast as I Can, which came out many years ago. I've wanted to have him on for a while. I finally was able to wrangle it and we're posting it in conjunction with the season premiere of Dancing with the Stars.

One of the things that you'll hear this, he is different in some striking and very interesting ways than you might think by watching the guy on television. So with that, here he is, Tom Bershrund. I've been watching you since I was a little boy in Boston, and when I had a sick day when I didn't have to go to school, I'd be able to watch a talk show

that was produced locally called People Are Talking. Hosted by a guy named Tom Bersron. And then I watched your career just blossom ever since. You were on a little show called America's Funniest Home Videos, Hollywood Squares. And now, what's the name of the show on ABC? That dancing thing. Dancing with the stars, yes. And what is, what really caught my,

I've met you briefly, fleetingly on the set of Good Morning America on occasion, but we're really caught my attention about you, is that you wrote a whole book about meditation. It really was, it was sort of a stealth book about meditation. It was called, I'm hosting as fast as I can was the main title. And under the guise of stringing together a bunch of career anecdotes, it really was a book about meditation.

It really was a book about the importance of being present in your life and being in the now of your life. And that was the only reason I thought it would have any merit is if there was some kind of takeaway. It was interesting to me, and it's been a minute since I've looked at the book, but really what screamed out to me was that behind this sort of wall of affability. Yeah. There's your complex human being. Well, I think we all are. And that's certainly what brought you to this whole experience of doing this book and and and this podcast and it's that we are complex i mean i one of the things that uh...

that i had to deal with and still do it still uh... there right under the surface is i've a really bad temper really and uh... you would mean nobody would ever go that's good means the meditations working uh... but you're a great host. Yeah, thank you. But, yeah, there were a few apartment walls in my single days that, you know, had holes in the sheet rock that I punched through. And as I've said, apparently, just putting a poster over it when you leave the apartment does not get you your security deposit bank.

Oh. But what it did when I met my wife and we were dating and she could see, and the temper thing was always directed it in on him on objects or myself. But there was one time we were out and something happened and I just put my fist into the door of the car, just damn it. And she wisely said, you know, if we're gonna have

a relationship that has to stop. And I had dabbled in meditation before, off and on, but I think the next day I signed up for a course in TM. Transcendental medicine. Yeah. So, TM comes up on the show quite a bit. But I always ask people just to sort of describe what it is, so to listen or understand. Yeah, I'm not really a meditation purist. I mean, I sometimes, and I don't mean to disparage

one brand over another, but to me, there's a central technique to meditation, and it's the discipline of finding a focal point, be it a mantra, as it is in my case, or a word that means something to you or your breath or, you breath or focusing on a flickering flame, whatever. But it is that discipline of sitting and trying to quiet your thoughts. In the case of TM, they give you a Sanskrit mantra that they say after you go through the initial training is picked for you and that's fine. And it certainly worked. I've done it for over 35 years.

I'm meditated this morning. Wow. So you do do the, they recommend that people do 20 minutes twice a day. Yeah, I don't always do that like this morning. I did a half hour just because it was so, it was, and you probably experienced this too. There are times when, you know, you're kind of opening your eye and checking the digital clock and it's taking forever.

And other times you just fall into this wonderful sense of pure energy that was, it's just amazing. And is something I'm drawn to every day. I really am. Unpack that from me. Pure energy. What do you mean by that? Well, I think when I've meditated and meditate regularly in that process

there is a point at which and sometimes it's only minutes into it and and I would just add as a as a side note thoughts always intrude people who stop meditating because they think they're failing because thoughts and truth I've been doing it for like I said 35 years they always into and it's fine you just don't judge them. You acknowledge them. You move them aside. You go back to your focal point in that the mantra for me. And then there's a moment sometimes. It's almost like a runner's high when I stop feeling where my feet and my fingers are

and it just feel like energy. And it's in those moments that the connective tissue that I really believe exists among us all and everything starts to feel very visceral. It starts to, you know, I'm kind of, okay, I get this now. And then, you know, then I come out of it and go on with my life, but it impacts it. Whether it's hosting a TV show or just how I deal with traffic or anything or any incoming stressor, it helps. So in those moments, if I understand correctly, you are to use the T in TM transcending the small tombers run, the ego, the sense of being this embattled, isolated self against the

world. You actually, some of that stuff starts to evaporate. Absolutely. Alan Watts used to have one of the phrases, and he had many, I love, where all egos and bags of skin. Yeah. And in those moments, that ego and that sense

of being a bag of skin, if you will, tends to fade away. And you get the sense, or I get the sense of something more connected And it it increases everything increases. I think empathy it increases my sense of where I am at any given moment in the day of my life and I Think it and I love your title because I think it does it does make you happier. It does make you better able to assess things as they're happening. So as to not fly off that, I have not damaged any sheet rock in 35 years.

I'm proud to say sheet rock is safe now. But does the temper go? I mean, you find, you have a stressful job. You do a lot of live television. You had a lot of people whisper in your ear, just watching, dancing with the stars. It would be hard for people to know this if they haven't tried to host something,

but I've done a certain amount of hosting, and like a fraction, tiny fraction of what you've done. But to see how masterful you manage all of these moving parts and it's all live, and there's so many different people that judges in the contestants and and the audience and your co-host. I would imagine at times that there's a certain amount of stress that still after 35 years might seep through but correct me if I'm wrong.

Paradoxically those two hours are the most relaxed I am all day. I've said before it's like I have bedroom slippers on. And I'm doing this and I love it and I'm aware and listening and it's I'm like a built on pile metaphors on. It's like, you know, kid on Christmas morning, you something's going to happen. I'm going to unwrap something. I'm going to be aware of something. It's all about the excitement of being present to have all those moving parts. And where I have a harder time is in just real life. You know, where sometimes a more apt to feel annoyed at normal stuff, but in an environment like that, a three-ring circus like that completely relaxed.

That's so interesting. So do you think that meditation has helped you in your natural milieu of hosting by- Oh, yeah, no question. Between the dress rehearsal that we do on a Monday and the live show, we go live to the East Coast at five o'clock Pacific time, I meditate in my dressing room. And the staff knows now, if we knock and he doesn't answer, he's probably, you know, if he's not at craft surfaces, he's meditating. And I'll do that for, you know, whatever I can,

that sometimes I can eat that only 10 minutes, sometimes a full 20, but it helps. Yeah. And so, just, I would love to know more of this now, I'm asking this question completely selfishly, because I too do a certain amount of live hosting. Can you walk me through it like how it's useful in those moments because I feel you never show, you never show any stress when I see you hosting a dancing with the stars, but I feel a little stress because I'm projecting myself into your shoes and your bedroom slippers as I'm And I'm thinking, well, how does he manage all of this? So can you just, can you give me a sense of how 35 years

of meditation might show up for you in those times? I think the key thing is the first word that comes to mind to answer that question is trust. I trust that I, because of the practice, because of the investment of time and mental energy into being present. That I'm going to be aware of or I'm going to somehow know how to roll with whatever happens. Be it, you know, somebody passing out has happened a few years ago or a judge going a little crazy or just an awkward moment that needs to be

finesse to move us forward in the show so we don't get caught, you know, that the wheels don't spin in this awkward. So I trust that. I really go out knowing, as matter of fact, one of our former executive producers, Rob Wade, one time there was a power failure at CBS Television City where we do the show. We lease studio space from them. And there was a power failure and we'd only have certain lights and I was thrilled. And Rob came up to me and he said, damn it, you love this, don't you? And because yeah, because it's like, how do we play with it? What, you know, it's a ballroom show. It's not neurosurgery.

Let's, you know, have a good time, you know? It's so interesting to me you use the word trust. Because just again, speaking from my limited experience, and when I say limited experience, I mean, not only limited experience in hosting, but also in meditating, because I've only been doing it for eight years, and I when I say limited experience I mean not only limited experience in hosting but also in meditating Because I've only been doing it for eight years Yeah, and I've only been doing hosting truly in this in in in a way that would overlap with the way the type of hosting

You've done in the past seven years on good morning America on the weekends where I was kind of thrust in this position where Before that I was a traditional news anchor just reading off of a teleprompter was just me And then I had to make this transition to being in a three-ring kind of news circus in the mornings and- But isn't that fun the shifting gears? It is but I was very hard for me to make that transition and I have to be honest, I was really bad at it for a long time and I'm not just being, that's not false modesty. Yeah.

If you look at my Twitter feed for that time, I was being told how bad I was. It's a rated by. Absolutely. And I think they were correct. And actually, you know, we can talk about how mean Twitter is, but actually it was sort of useful for me to see, okay, yeah, I'm a little tight here. And then last year, I actually hosted a game show on ABC that I can now add to my list of credits failed game show host because that game show did not get renewed. But I've said the word trust has come up over and over for me because in recent years, I've become more and more comfortable and I found myself saying funny things occasionally or

things that people laugh at, right? And I don't know where it comes from and i get nervous that i'm not going to be able to do it again i walk into the show the next day and i'm like well everybody said that i was funny yesterday but am i going to be able to be funny today i don't know because i don't i can't plan the jokes in fact when i do plan a joke i always fail for me to so for me to so trust is that is a real thing and i actually think meditation has helped me just kind of get out of my

own way, stop planning the next move, stop just spinning and just be open to whatever's happening and trust that actually some thought will our idea or wise crack or whatever will comes. It doesn't always come, but if I trust it, it's more likely to. The couple of things came to mind as you were saying that. One was an evening, years ago I would do a one-man show and there was an improv section in that and I would take from one member of the audience just yell a profession and from another member of the audience I'd get a yell a situation and I'll pick one of the and I would do something in an improvisational setting and so the boom boom and I did it and it was magic.

It was like it was being written from up above and sent to me and I was instantly doing it perfectly and the audience was ecstatic in my agent at the time. Her jaw dropped, it was one of those moments and then I made the fatal mistake as the applause was, Ed being I went to in my mind, I went, I'm really good. And the next improv sucked. The moment I got my ego in it, instead of enjoying this communal

sharing of energy that had just happened, instead of making it about, wow, this experience that we just had was cool. Let's see if we can have another one. It was, I really am amazing. And then, no. I've had that happen over and over. Yeah. But to me, anytime I've tried to, as a matter of fact, in the early, the first season of Dancing with the Stars, which was only six weeks in the summer of 2005, there was a lot of written stuff. And I'm very good friends with the guy who wrote it and we've worked together for years. But ultimately I said, and I wrote about this in that book, this doesn't feel right. I'm hosting a live show.

Things are happening in the moment. And I've got a scripted line. However good that might be, it's no longer germane to what just happened. So I've got to again trust. And the producers thankfully ultimately agreed with me that I'll respond appropriately. And it might be funny sometimes. It might be sympathetic sometimes. It might be dogmatic something, but it'll be appropriate to the moment and you can't script that. You just can't.

So trust became very important in how we as a team on dancing with the stars, allowed me to do the hosting the way I thought it should be done. So interesting. So talk to me about when you're outside of the bedroom slippers. So the rest of your life is clearly you just, I mean, it just emanates off you.

How much you love doing live hosting too. But the rest of life is messy and complicated. And now you've got this 35 years of practice under your belt. Can you just walk us through a little bit of how it shows up in the 22 hours a day when you're not on live? in the 22 hours a day when you're not online. Yeah, sometimes it's the smallest things. Being in traffic, getting to the studio to do dancing with the stars, depending on when I leave the house in LA, anybody who's been out there

and knows that 20 minutes of difference can mean an extra hour and a half in the car. And I remember being in Laurel Canyon, just in bumper to bumper traffic, just getting to a, you know, there's a merge that takes forever and I had left too late and I decided, all right, I'm going to turn off the radio and watch how, this sounds silly, but it works. Watch how light plays on surfaces, you know, and just whether it's in the trees, on the cars, the energy of people around me, just be in this environment. Don't stop wishing, stop wishing I could go faster.

Be there sooner. Be somewhere else. Oh, damn it. I wish I took the other road instead of this road. Be here now. What's what is it about here now? That's fascinating that I might never experience again. Sometimes it's those choices that make a big difference in those other 22 hours a day. That, you know, like anybody, we succeed sometimes and we fail sometimes, but it's the belief that I can be the master of how I react to any situation,

that it's not the situation that I should blame. Ultimately, if things go off the rails, it's how I react to it. What, you know, I had a whole realm of choices I could have made, being in traffic, I could be leaning on the horn, or I could be watching light play on a tree and make sure I don't round the car in front of me,

but that's a better choice, I think. So that's absolutely, yeah. You reframe the whole experience. Yeah, exactly. And you're actually living your actual life, as opposed to thinking about what you're missing right now, the other routes you could have taken, etc. Walking over here today because in LA nobody walks. You might see a pedestrian and you just want to put them in a zoo because they're like, we fired up a pedestrian!

But here, it was, you know, I left the hotel and I was a little early, so I sat with the last part of my coffee and I love Manhattan for people watching. And just watching the different energy, the different rhythms, the different types of people, the diversity here that's so electric. And it was great. I was just completely immersed in the pleasure of watching this parade of humanity going by. You are a walking advertisement for the compounding benefits of meditation practice because for so

many people, I'm only eight years into this. There are days where I'm like, why am I doing this? Especially after one of those sits where you are eyeing the clock and you're like, when is this going? But if you keep at it, there's a teacher who uses the phrase time and nature. In other words, I'm gonna invoke again the word trust. If you just trust that the process of meditation works and let time and nature do its works,

that over time, it can show up with pretty big benefits. Yeah, yeah. It's, again, I use that building the mental muscle idea. I'm a bit of a gym rat, so I know that if I keep going to the gym and I work out and I feel better, and I look better on camera next to those 20-somethings with 2% body fat and everything, so that's the same thing, really.

It's investing in that and knowing that it pays dividends over time and it pays dividends right away too. But yeah, there are definitely those days when it's like, really, it's the only, when it's orange, you know what I'm talking about. I have to say that you do look damn good. Thank you. For 87 years old. Because you know I'm 62 actually.

Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So you're an advertisement for spending time in the gym too. It was nice. And you were super careful about what you eat. I'm not super careful, but I am somewhat careful.

I try to, and I kid about it, but it's true. I have the great incentive of working alongside these incredible artists and athletes who are these dancers, and it keeps you, you know, I'm like, okay, if I have to stand next to Derrickuff and Cheryl Burke, I better go to the gym. Yeah, we do that to me too. Yeah, but also I love the results of what it feels like.

Sometimes in the midst of, I get at a training session yesterday And I didn't really want to go on or I did and I was whining about the leg exercises It's like a running joke with my trainer and all that but then about 20 minutes in You know you start the bloods moving and you know the crack in a few jokes and you're having fun and it feels good. And that's very often what what's sitting is like for meditation, you know, just and then suddenly five, six minutes in, you feel that that first insinuation of that electric connectivity. And it's like, oh, I'm so glad I did this. That's the more common reaction. Hey, I'm I'm so glad I did this. You know, that's the more common reaction.

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You can listen ad-free on Amazon Music or the Wondery app. It's so cool to sit here with somebody who you kind of think you know because I've just watched you for decades and realize how much more is there. And I suspect that everybody listening or watching this is going to feel the same way. Well, you know, and my goal going back to when I did the book and in conversations like this, why I was so looking forward to chatting with you about this, I really, I just see the value in it, you know, and if it can make somebody give it a shot. And the thing that's important, I think, that there's no religious connection to this. This is a practice.

It's just a sort of, I mean, there can be certainly, but you don't have to feel like if you're of a certain religious belief that you're going rogue, if you meditate, it's a lovely adjunct, and it can make your religious life even more. I don't happen to be religious myself, but I could certainly see where it would help enrich somebody in a religious life just by virtue of the practice of staying aware of your life as it unfolds. Yeah, it's secular. Yeah. I believe it's exercised for the brain and the mind. And in terms of what I'm not particularly religious myself, but friends of mine who are,

say that their prayer life is transformed. Either they're absolutely that. They're attending their to-do lists less frequently and actually focusing on the divine connection they're seeking. Yeah. This has been fascinating, but I want to dive a little just out of personal curiosity into your background of how you became Tom Vergeron.

So you, I blame my parents for that. Yeah, well, that's the very beginning. Yeah. So you grew up in Havro, Massachusetts. Yeah. And how did you, how did you get into hosting? I was at Havro High School, and I found out that there was a was an English teacher,

and a public speaking teacher who worked part-time at the local radio station. I thought, okay, I was basically like a heat-seeking missile. I'm going to get in his class and I'm going to impress the hell out of him and see where that lit. I got into his public speaking class and he ended up introducing me to the owner of the local radio station. And in my senior year in high school I was working in radio part time. So were you a class clown?

Yeah, but yeah, yeah. Freshman year in high school, the English teacher, no, the history teacher, would award at the end of the year whoever was the biggest cut up, the boob of the year award. And I wanted, I'm proud to say, I would like to think with a more erudite humor than the runner up. Or all previous. Yeah, all previous. Yeah, I would like to think it was more of an Algonquin roundtable humor that I brought

to that class in April high. So senior year you're already doing radio and then you just kept with it. I kept with it. I was going to, you know, we were talking before we started that my oldest daughter graduated from Emerson College, a wonderful facility in Boston. And I was going to go there to get a degree in broadcasting in the hopes of getting a radio job, but I had a radio job already So I thought, hmm, maybe I'll just put that off for a while and

stayed and worked and and then my boss threatened to fire me unless I went to school He said I didn't hire you to not go to college so I ended up going to a local community college just take courses just to keep the job I didn't want to annoy him and ended up working with the theater company and then studied with a mime and main, who a wonderful teacher, Tony Mottonaro, this brilliant, brilliant guy, who studied with Marso. And so I was doing at one point a morning radio show and evening mime performances with a troop.

And a buddy of mine said, you know, it's fascinating. When we hear you, we can't see you.. When we hear you, we can't see you. And when we see you, we can't hear you. So you're a mind. Yeah, you know, just sit down. Yeah, you're good. Illusionary walls. Yeah.

I'll give you a color comment there. He's doing the classic hand on the wall. A little wall. And then there, and then this can be misused in so many ways, but this is theoretically, it's just tooth brushing. I'm not gonna describe that. Yeah, well, that could go completely blue, if you wanted to. That could cost both of us.

That could damage our relative respect of relationship with the Walt Disney Company. Yeah, that's true. Right, our checks. So you're mining hosting, studying, and then then you end up, you were hosting a radio show in New Hampshire and TV producers in Boston. Yeah, I was doing a wonderful station in Port Smith, New Hampshire. That's a beautiful

town. Oh, God, I love it. It's a beautiful town. Yeah, it really is. And to me, a New Englander, that is quintessential. Yes. New England. Yes. So that's where I always gravitate. When I was working in New York and so many friends would go to Long Island or the Hamptons, my wife and I would keep going right back to New Hampshire. What was the original question I forget? Oh, the TV series producers are passing. Yeah, so I was doing the radio show in Port Smith, and it was a very improvisational show.

I'd play music certainly, but I'd have musicians come in and perform live. And occasionally we do fundraising live performances from the local theater that were sort of a Saturday night live takeoff that I would write with some of the other DJs. So there was this great that they gave me a lot of rope. And I was creatively just in this really very energetic period. And the station signal got into the Boston market, into the North Shore anyway. And there were people who were producers in Boston TV who were listening to the show. And out of the blue, I was getting these calls. You wanna come down and audition for this show on Channel 5, and you wanna come down and audition

for this kid show on Channel 4. So yeah, so I did, and that kind of, the TV thing happened by accident. So you were on People Are Talking, but did you also do the evening magazine? No, I'd fill in on that. I was, prior to doing the people that are talking show, I started at WBZ TV in Boston in 81.

That was channel four. And at that time, it was NBC now. That's right, now CBS. Yeah. And I was doing just, you know, basically a weekly kid show that we would pre-tape. It was like evening magazine, but for kids and Maybe that's why I saw it that's not even one I was yeah, yeah, well there you go

It might it super kids it was called it was on the weekends and and that so I got my foot in the door And then I'd fill in on different things. It was a format called for today. You would host Daytime programming you'd be on for 90 seconds in a minute, you know, minute here, two minutes there. Glenn Close was my guest on one of those. We promoted two movies in 53 seconds. And at the end, because it was live and we get off the air and she looked at me and she went, what just happened? But so that led to them saying, oh, the host of people are talking, you want to fill in. And then ultimately they offered me that job when the show is not to renew the other guys

contract. And yes, so that all happened because of a radio show. And when did America's funniest home video start? That happened because I was doing Hollywood squares and syndication. And I would go back to Boston every so often to host the New England Emmy Awards to just sort of keep those connections alive and see all friends. And Vindabona, who's the creator of AFE, also from the Boston area, also had worked at

WBZ and was getting an award that night. And I was at living my way through the hosting. And his late mother, Jean leaned over to him and said, you should hire him. And he was actually talking to ABC about bringing the show back because it had been a series of specials at that point. It wasn't a weekly show anymore. So he said, you know, at that award ceremony, I sat down and he goes, would you be interested in hosting KFB?

It was kind of like, well, yeah, I'd have to do it a little different than Bob, because, you know, I had Bob Sagitt, I don't have the same, but, you know, I don't do the character voices and all that stuff. But we figured that out as we went along. But yeah, that was how it started.

And when you're in your personal life, are you like at a party or do you feel the need to host everyone? No, I'm not a big party person. Here's the here's the interesting sort of twisted wires. On a live TV show in front of whatever 20 million people, bedroom slippers. Party, small talk. I'm looking for the exits. My upper lip starts to sweat.

Unless it's work related, if it's like a neighborhood association party or something like that, lowest my wife would have to hear from people. Where'd Tom go? Oh, he's probably out driving around so he can refocus. What is that? I don't know. I just, I'm lousy at small talk. I'm a bit of a loner anyway. And yeah, I'm not a big party person. I like smaller groups. I'm apt to get a little claustrophobic sometimes. In large groups. Yeah. But what about when you're mobbed by people who know you from TV? Well, I was at the gang from Dancing with the Stars doing a tour.

And so my wife and I went to White Plains the other night because we're in Connecticut and we're nearby. And naively I thought, oh, we got a couple tickets and we'll just show up. And the moment we were walking into the venue, people who were there, big fan base of the show, you know, and they're, tall man, you know. And it turned into, I mean, it was very flattering situation, but it was a bit overwhelming.

A lot of people wanting pictures and my wife was, absolutely sweetheart, taking pictures for them, but it's security finally had to say, okay, we got to just kind of, you know, flip back this up. And for a while, I was fine, but I did start to feel a little bit penned in. You know, there's this trope about comedians that many comedians, well, super charismatic and hilarious on stage, you're often very shy in person. You think that's kind of what we're talking about here? Absolutely.

I would read interviews with Carson, Johnny Carson, and I got to work with Ed McMahon, his sidekick on stuff when I did muscular dystrophy stuff when Jerry Lewis was doing it. And Ed McMahon and I talked a lot about Carson and how quiet and sort of Shah he was away from hosting the tonight show. And very much a loner. And I've read interviews with Letterman or people who've worked with him and say the same thing. And I think there is a bit of a common strain. And in some ways, it's easier to do the hosting because I feel more in control. I know what the parameters are. OK, we're a two hour show.

They're all these moving parts. But I know what the moving parts are. I know, in real life, I get a party. Lois, my wife, who was a producer, had the best advice for me, and it helped. Still doesn't make me want to go to parties much more. But when I do go, she said, find the person in the room who looks more uncomfortable than you feel and interview them. You love hearing about people's lives and people generally love to talk about themselves. So find that person and don't worry about the rest of it

and that work, that was really helpful advice. Is there anything I should have asked you, but didn't any areas you want to go? Well math, any math questions, I'm really not. Oh wait, there was a story you were going to tell me about the three stooges. Oh, yeah, because where we are in California now, when I'm out doing dancing, the stars is only a few miles away from the motion picture facility home and facility in Woodland

Hills. So, when I was 16 years old, my folks were out, my sister was having a sleepover to friend's house, and I did, with any 16 year old kid, left alone in behavioral Massachusetts, would have done in 1972. I decided to call the three students. So I called information. I knew Mohaward and Larry Fine were still alive. I said, Mohaward, Larry Fine, the operator says, well, we've got several M-Hards.

I've got one Larry Fine. So I'll take that number. I called it and his mother answered. I thought that doesn't work out. His mother would be 109. She said, Oh, no, no, no, it's not that Larry fine who lives here, but I do know where he is. He's at the motion picture home. She gave me the number because they had had other calls like the motion picture home. Yeah, in Woodland Hills. That's what it was. Motion picture and television, hold my think it was called. It was like a nursing home for cars.

Yeah. And he had suffered a stroke and he was recuperating there. So I called with my heart beating like a jackhammer and the guy at the switchboard goes, yeah, Larry, yeah, let me get him. And he comes back, he says, he's playing poker. He has a good hand, can you call back in half an hour? And I did.

Larry comes on the phone and he was still very recognizably Larry. And about 10 or 15 minutes into this conversation and he was so gracious with this kid from Massachusetts. He goes, you want Mo's number? He gives me Mo's home phone number. I called Mo's house, is why fans are to put Mo on the phone. Mo sounds just like Mo of the films. And he said, who gave you this number? And I said, Larry did. And there was this wonderful pause as I remember it.

And he went, Larry. You lame brain. But over 18 months, I talked to them, probably. You lame brain. But over 18 months I talked to them probably half a dozen times. You know kidding. And what did you ask him? Just about the films, about their background, about what they thought about comedy now, everything. And luckily some of those tapes survived.

Oh, you recorded them. Yeah, oh yeah. And when I was promoting the book that we alluded to years ago, I was on Howard Stern's show. And he's a big stoogeist fan and he said to those tapes, exact. I don't know. I'll look for them. Found them, found a half hour with Moe in about 20 minutes with Larry. And we turned it into a 90 minute special, which also features a lot of their stooge parody stuff they've done on the Stern's show. And you can find it, I think, online now. It's called Stooge's Lost and Found. And you can hear, as I did, one time, it's very surreal, driving to do a production

meeting for Dancing with the Stars. Don Laurel Canyon, I happen to have the serious station, Howard's serious station on, and I'm listening to 16-year-old me interview Mo Howard while then 59-year-old me interview Mo Howard while then 59-year-old me was driving to work to host dancing with the stars. It was kind of cool. That's a trip. Howard's turn is also a TM. Yes he is, yeah he is.

Such a pleasure to sit and talk. Same here Dan. Thank you very much. If people want to find the book, if they want to find the book, it's holding up some of the finest windows in America right now. But there is an audio version, you can get it on Audible and listen to me drone on for six and a half hours. Awesome. I think people will like that. And what about you're on Twitter? Any other places to find you that you're putting stuff out? Not really. You know, you can usually find me at a Starbucks.

Cool. Yeah, just hanging out and ignoring everybody and not talking to them. I talk. I talk, yeah. Briefly. But if the lip starts to sweat, then yeah, I've just let them back away. I mean, just such a pleasure sitting here. Same here.

Really. But I'm looking forward to this. OK, that does it for another edition of the 10% happier podcast. If you liked it, please take a minute to subscribe, rate us. Also, if you want to suggest topics, you think we should cover or guests that we should bring in, hit me up on Twitter at Dan V. Harris. Importantly, I want to thank the people who produce this podcast, Lauren Efron, Josh Cohan, and the rest of the folks here at ABC who helped make this thing possible.

We have tons of other podcasts. You can check them out at ABCnewspodcasts.com. I'll talk to you next Wednesday. Hey, hey, prime members. You can listen to 10% happier early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus in Apple Podcasts.

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