Ten Percent Happier with Dan Harris - 101: Nicholas Hoult & Danny Strong, 'Rebel in the Rye'

Episode Date: September 27, 2017

The new biopic about reclusive author J.D. Salinger explores his formative years, from struggling writer, to serving in World War II, to publishing his famous and controversial 1951 novel, "The Catcher in the Rye," to using meditation to deal with PTSD. Actor Nicholas Hoult, who plays Salinger, and Danny Strong, who wrote and directed the film, are both meditators themselves and talk about diving into this tortured author's mind to bring his story to the big screen. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

It kind of blows my mind to consider the fact that we're up to nearly 600 episodes of this podcast, the 10% happier podcast. That's a lot of conversations. I like to think of it as a great compendium of, and I know this is a bit of a grandiose term, but wisdom. The only downside of having this vast library of audio is that it can be hard to know where to start. So we're launching a new feature here, playlists, just like you put together a playlist of your favorite songs.

Back in the day, we used to call those mix tapes. Just like you do that with music, you can do it with podcasts. So if you're looking for episodes about anxiety, we've got a playlist of all of our anxiety episodes. Or if you're looking for how to sleep better, we've got a playlist of all of our anxiety episodes, or if you're looking for how to sleep better, we've got a playlist for that. We've even put together a playlist of some of my personal favorite episodes. That was a hard list to make. Check out our playlists at 10%.com slash playlist. That's 10% all one word spelled out..com slash playlist singular.

Let us know what you think. We're always open to tweaking how we do things and maybe there's a playlist we haven't thought of. Hit me up on Twitter or submit a comment through the website. Hey y'all, it's your girl, Kiki Palmer. I'm an actress, singer, and entrepreneur. I'm a new podcast, baby, this is Kiki Palmer. I'm asking friends, family, and experts,

the questions that are in my head. Like, it's only fans only bad, where the memes come from. And where's Tom from MySpace? Listen to Baby, this is Kiki Palmer on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. So our podcast this week was not actually initially planned as a podcast.

Here's how it happened. I was assigned by my overlords at Nightline to do a story about a movie a new movie called The Rebel and the Rye, which is about the legendary author, JD Salinger, who of course wrote Catcher and the Rye. And as I'm watching this movie to my great surprise and delight, I learned something that I did not know about JD Salinger, which is that he's really into meditation and yoga. In fact, it played a huge role in his own mental health after having served in World War II and in his creative life.

So as I sat down to interview the other day, the director of the movie Danny Strong and the star of the movie, Nicholas Holt, I also learned that they both do meditation and yoga. So even though the interview was, the audio is gonna sound a little different because we did this as a television interview, not a radio interview. So even though it wasn't planned as a podcast, we thought we'd play the whole thing for you

because while we talk a lot about the movie, we also talk a lot about the role of meditation and yoga and their lives and in the life of JD Salinger, all of which is gonna be really interesting. Just a little background on these two guys. Danny Strong is a very well respected screenwriter. He's written game change that great movie on HBO about the Obama McCain race. He wrote recount before that, also on HBO about the Florida recount. He's the co-creator of Empire. And he's also acted quite a bit and Gilmore girls and madmen and many other things.

And then Nicholas Holtz, young heart throb, he's the star of the movie he plays JD Salinger. He got his big start in the movie about a boy and then he went on to be in this great British show that my wife and I happened to have loved years ago called skins so it was cool to see him and talk to him about that. Anyway, I've said a lot here so let me without further ado bring you Danny Strong and Nicholas Holt talking about JD Sallanger. From ABC, this is the 10% happier podcast.

I'm Dan Harris. When did you first read Catcher in the Rhyme, what kind of impacted it have on you? I read it. It's not part of the syllabus growing up in England, but I read it around 15 or 16. I can't remember exactly where I was, but I read it and loved the book. And then revisited for this. It was actually really insightful and useful in terms of the audition process.

I read the script and loved it and learnt a lot about Salanger through that. And then how did Danny, we met up a few times and then flew into New York to audition and read the book alongside the script then. And it was really insightful to read them alongside each other and kind of compare what was happening in his life compared to his writing in the catcher in the Ryan and

compare them and then it kind of gave you this plick in my brain of kind of a little bit of an understanding into the essence of the man. You said how did Danny? Yeah, were you hounding him for this role? I feel as though I had to do quite a lot. It wasn't like, it wasn't berating you. I wasn't like standing outside your hotel. I was probably handing my agents more to Houndu and just keep on top of it.

It was good though. I mean, I knew he wanted the part and I was very interested in for the role so knowing that he was passionate about the part also is exciting when you're interested in that actor for the role. When did you read the book and did it have a big impact on you? Yeah, absolutely. I read it when I was a freshman in high school, which is when I think a lot of people read it here in America, in the United States.

And it was, it affected me, I think, the way it affects many a 14-year-old, where you see yourself reflected in literature in a way that you haven't seen yourself reflected in books before, and you see a character that represents an angst that is something that you're feeling yourself, and it makes you feel better about yourself in some way, to see this character that you're forced to read about is in fact someone that you feel somewhat of a kindred spirit to, I guess. And I think if you feel alienated, you feel like an outsider

Makes you feel that you're not alone. You've written projects about politics hip-hop Why King of hip-hop? Yeah, you thank you. I'm disputed. I'm disputed Why this? I just was I read a biography on Salinger by Kenneth Linsky came out in 2011 and I thought the story was amazing. I didn't know that he had, that's out in Jorgon de War. I didn't know about his religious awakening, and I didn't even know he was this charismatic young man of New York City who had transformed

because of the war experience. And it seems to me like a really powerful, interesting story of a veteran seeing the worst, the darkest horrors of the 20th century, and to come out of that and create this masterpiece a few years later, I thought was a profound tale. And one that also inspiring to see what a veteran can achieve. You know, to take that horror and to take that nightmare and to come out of it and create this book

that then changes so many lives and has gone on to change lives decade after decade after decade. I was really surprised by a lot of the things I learned about Saladjir as a man. What surprised you the most? Yeah, the, the, the, the wall part of his life, I knew nothing about, you know, landing on D-Day, fighting through the Hurt and Forest, all of that, but then, you know,

the, the, the results of that, him coming back, fighting the Baden'tah, and the religion. Um, and then his, you know, the thing that I found most inspiring about him in research was just his dedication to his art and his willingness to write as a meditation

and for not for the rewards of what he might receive from it. I found that really inspirational and remarkable. That was something that I really took away from doing the project. I had no idea even as like a meditation evangelist that that Salinger had this spiritual awakening. He was very ahead of his time. He was really ahead of his time. What did he find and what did it do for him? Do I want to go?

Well, he swam me. How long have you, yeah, how exactly did they meet? That I don't know. Yeah, we kind of fictionalized that one. We of fictionalized I just know he became a disciple of him Yeah, and we went to the began the the temple up what street was it on? We went to two temples. Yeah, I think it was one was on 70 seconds and one was on 96 and the one on 96 had a lot more money Yeah, one on 70 second and that was the one that sounder went to. So I don't know if he donated to it or not, but it was a very different. Yeah, but that meditation and that peacefulness, because you know, he did suffer a lot of PTSD

and in that era it wasn't as recognized or understood. Or even existed. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, that was a huge part of him being able to write again and also just trying to find peace from all the horrors he saw and more. Yeah, that was a huge part of him being able to write again and also just trying to find peace from all the horrors he saw and more. Did you dabble in any of what he studied just to get ready for the role? Yeah, of course.

And we took up yoga and as I said, meditated on all those things and Danny asked me to, I mean, this isn't to do with that related, but to write short stories and to build up as well. Oh, really? So we'd write stories and just try and why are that part of my brain? Because you know that's not something, your perception of the world around you and how you associate things completely changes with that. So it was all, yeah, all these little things and ideas that Danny had that kind of formulated

into the role. That's actually, I mean, not an actor, but it sounds like pretty serious prep if you're writing stories, meditating, and learning yoga. That's in dance classes. And dance classes and dance classes. And at all. And creating an accent. And yeah, there's a lot of prep,

but that's part of the job. And that's, if you prep right, then in theory, when you turn up, you're ready and then, then you can mold the performance into what it needs to be. Tell me about the yoga and meditation for you. Was it meaningful for you and have you kept doing it? Yeah, I've kept doing it. I love it.

I find it very useful. And I've found it, you know, great, just peacefulness, but also time to actually, even though you're not really meant to think about things, I find it a really good, quiet time away from everything else to think about the character or the story and go over things. So how much time will you dedicate to it on an average day? I don't know, it depends if I'm going to a class then an hour and a half.

Like a two-year class? Yeah, yeah. But have you found that it's showed up in your life in a real way? I think so, yeah. I don't know, it's very. You know those things are also, they feel very untangible when you try and quantify them a little. But yeah. I agree. I think it's been positive. But it's very difficult to be like, yeah, it's definitely made me more. I think at times it's made me more peaceful and conscious and positive things definitely. But not always. it was slip up. Absolutely, absolutely. We will always retain the capacity to be morons. And what about you, do you?

Yeah, I'm reserving right now. Did you get into yoga and meditation as part of this? I've been into yoga and meditation for quite a while now and find it. I wish I did more yoga because I really love it. You know, for also as an exercise, I do hot yoga, but as a sort of a mental exercise, I find myself sharper, more less judgmental. I find meditation. I meditate three minutes every day and I find it

extremely helpful for my work as a writer. I feel more creative and more focused and more, the ideas come easier when I meditate and when I don't meditate. It's just a little more of my heels on that writing session and then I'll be struggling a little bit, and then I'll remember, I didn't meditate this morning, and then I'll start cursing myself out, which is the opposite of what meditation is supposed to ring about. But yeah, I do. I find it really, really subtly, but significantly helpful.

Then he's writing in the script was the best thing I'd read for so long. Literally the script just, it came to life. It flowed so beautifully each cut and break and eat every scene and character. It was literally, I read it and I was like, this is a wonderful script. It was amazing to it. Part of that is brilliance and part of it was meditation. Yeah, but also that wonderful thing that then the more research and the more I read, how you'd managed to take his life and translate it, you know,

it's difficult in a hundred pages of a script to cover so much ground and so many major events of his life, but to cover them so, yeah, concisely, that was remarkable. Well, I think also the meditation yoga angle was another reason that drew me to the project. Was it just, I just thought, oh, I've been there. And nowhere I've never suffered the trauma that he suffered, but the way that those things helped him in his writing and in his life helped me in my writing and my life. And so I had an attachment to it and thought,

what a neat way to dramatize the positive attributes of meditation. It's not something you often see in a film because it's not very dramatic, someone's sitting there meditating, but when you see what it does for him and how it helped him get through the PTSD, which personally I don't think he ever fully recovered as I think many veterans never fully recover or even recover at all. I think that was part of him going away to the woods and spending 50 years of his life, the last 50 years alone writing.

And he wasn't a recluse or isolated as he's famous to be, he was part of the community, but nonetheless, he wrote for all those years and never showed it to anyone. And I see that as another form of meditation and another form of therapy, which I thought was very fascinating and quite beautiful actually.

Does he strike you as a nice man? No. No, I don't get that from him at all. I get, I know that I think his son had a really good relationship with him and I think there are people that had good relationships with him. I, you know, there's been some negative memoirs about him, one from his daughter, that his son refutes. So I don't know him well enough to say that there's no kindness in him, but I think it's complicated and he's a complicated person.

Yeah, he was very cutthroat in his relationships. If he felt like someone had taken advantage of him or crossed him in a way and you know, there was that one story about when he published the story and with a Cosmopolitan magazine and they changed the title. And they met up and he scolded him for it and then never spoke to him again. And he could cut people out of his life very quickly like that if they felt like they had wrong-tempt. And I think he did it all through his life.

And it was constantly kind of people out. And I know people like that that constantly cut people out of their lives, and I don't think it's healthy. Right. It's a good way to live your life. So clearly the meditation in yoga didn't deal with every idiosyncrasy. Yeah, I mean, who's to say what it did or didn't deal with unless you were with him every day?

I mean, this is all speculation to a certain extent. But actually, from what I've read, he actually, and you undoubtedly both know a lot more about this than I do, so you can fill in after what I say, what I've read, he actually, undoubtedly, both know a lot more about this than I do, so you can fill in after what I say. He actually went on to kind of dabble in a lot of different religious traditions, including the early versions of Scientology. Yeah, I mean, this was in his daughter's memoir, which once again, his son refutes, but she does talk about him having, quote, unquote, the religion of the weak, and that he would jump to different religions.

And when I see that, I see someone trying to find some sort of peace or trying to heal themselves. And in some way, I see a racing mind that is looking for some sort of answer. And I think that's a very clear symptom of PTSD and that perhaps if there was medication or therapy or you know something else besides the self therapy that he found himself, you know the yoga and the meditation, the writing and the way he would eat, he would eat homegrown food and raw foods and that's just another something I view as a way of someone's trying to heal themselves to a certain extent. I mean it's all speculation but

it but that's what it feels like. I mean I think the clues lead you there in a way that it's not a crazy hypothesis. Celebrity feuds are high stakes. You never know if you're just gonna end up on page six or Du Moir or in court. I'm Matt Bellasai and I'm Sydney Battle, and we're the host of Wonder E's new podcast, Dis and Tell, where each episode we unpack a different iconic celebrity feud from the buildup, why it happened, and the repercussions.

What does our obsession with these feud say about us? The first season is packed with some pretty messy pop culture drama, but none is drawn out in personal as Brittany and Jamie Lynn Spears. When Brittany's fans form the free Brittany movement dedicated to fraying her from the infamous conservatorship, Jamie Lynn's lack of public support, it angered some fans, a lot of them.

It's a story of two young women who had their choices taken away from them by their controlling parents, but took their anger out on each other. And it's about a movement to save a superstar, which set its sights upon anyone who failed to fight for Brittany. Follow Dissentel wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on Amazon Music or The Wondery App.

After having inhabited this role, do you have a sense of why he took himself out of the mix so thoroughly for the last 50 years of his life? I mean it's a big speculation again, but at the same time it's one of those things where I think to be able to walk away when you've reached a level of success like that is an extremely bold and noble thing to do in many ways and to not publish and to kind of completely dedicate to the art without reaping any rewards, you know, that Bhagavad Gita saying. So it's kind of that crazy thing whereby he was managed to find the ultimate piece through that in some ways, I think. But it's very

complicated because a lot of the time, particularly nowadays, if you stepped away from something when you started to get slight success, people would view it from the outside as being that you couldn't achieve what you wanted or it was the business rejecting you in a way. So for him to be able to remove himself from it. And perhaps also it's to do with society in the sense of like, you know, he grew up, you know, up in middle class and was part of that, you know, upper society at the stock club and all those sorts of things, but not quite fully accepted. And he wrote about a lot of that, you know, upper society at the Stork Club and all those sorts of things, but not quite fully accepted. And he wrote about a lot of that, you know, in his work. So maybe it was that thing, suddenly being the toast to the town and suddenly people shifting gears. I think you get to suddenly see a lot of fake and different attributes and people that maybe aren't to appealing

when you get success like that. So maybe that was to do with it as well. I have another theory on it, which is if you buy into the theory that his writing became his meditation, or his writing became a religious connection to God, publishing and even showing people your writing brings on judgment, brings on all these things, they get in the way of the meditation. And it's the opposite of the meditation if you're trying to publish and you've got reviews and galleys and literally, I mean, showing anybody the work, you're gonna get feedback

and perhaps that was, he didn't want that, he just wanted to write for himself and he would say that, that I just want to write for myself. And he certainly did for decades. And maybe if you're doing this as some sort of spiritual exercise, entering the marketplace is profane and something like that. It's the opposite of the spiritual exercise. Yeah. So all of this stuff he wrote is just sitting somewhere and we'll never see it.

Well, there was a documentary that came out in 2013. And at the end of the documentary, it states that there's five books. And it has the log lines of each book. It's very specific. And it says that they will begin to be published sometime between 2015 to 2021. So if that's accurate, then perhaps we will be getting

books soon. I personally don't know. I have a strange feeling that we won't. You don't think so? No, why? Yeah, I mean, how incredible would that be to kind of suddenly get an insight into what was going on in his mind for the past 50 years, but I don't know why I have a sense that we won't see them.

I don't know either. I literally, I have no idea. I mean, he is an incredible enigma, a real mystery. And there's no, there's sourcing about the books besides the documentary and some articles that came out around that time, but I haven't been able to find any information about them since then. I'm curious for you Nick, in terms of the personal resonance of the role, one of the, I don't know if it's fortunate or unfortunate aspects of being a celebrity is that you get a lot of people

asking questions about your private life you've had to deal with that playing a guy who was so insistent on privacy did that have some sort of personal resonance for you? Yeah, I think there's a certain level it's very different nowadays where there's a brilliant level to people sharing and having contact with social media and things where people that are experiencing similar issues and when they talk about it then there's a great ability to help people through that but at the same time I think for acting and

playing roles it's best if possible that people don't really know anything about you so that when they walk into the cinema they're not thinking like oh I know that guy had this happen last week or I know he eats that or was there yesterday, you can be like that for this next hour and a half JD Salinger or whoever the character is your plan. But what about for you personally, it's a feeling invasive? It depends, it can at times, it can also be lovely, you know, there can be a brief moment where someone walks down the street and says, hey, I just want to say how much of your work and then carries on the day and then there can be the brief moment where someone walks down the street and says, hey, you just want to say how much of your work and then carries on the day.

And then there can be the other instant where you end up in a strange situation where there's lots of people with camera phones. And that's obviously changed things a lot. And there's lots of photos to be taken and things like that. But you know, that's also very much, you know, where you go and what you do. So it's to be expected at times and also you can remove yourself from it. I'm watching you in the movie reacting with Fury to the fact that some high schooler put a simple interview in a local paper, and then I'm thinking,

well, there have been times where stuff's been in the paper about you that you must have, like, kind of, wished wasn't there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then that's also, that's a very strange, yeah, because obviously you get filled with anger and hurt, and you do filled with anger and hurt and you do feel betrayed in a way where you're like this person doesn't know me, these aren't

truths and this is a horrible attack in a way, but then also you just have to kind of take a step back and realize that someone, you know, that doesn't know you and they're trying to sell a story. Danny, this is your, as you know, this is your directorial debut. I read somewhere that you described this as one of the most difficult professional things you've ever had to do. Why? It was hard.

It was very challenging. Did you want to take on for the f**k? Yeah, I think it was very hebristic taking on this subject matter for the first. I had such a personal connection to it that it felt so right that I should direct this as a writer myself and having had experiences and his struggling days and the meditation and the yoga. You know, there's just a lot of personal connection to the journey of the writer and that's ultimately what the film's about.

But it's very difficult subject matter, very loaded subject matter, people are very opinionated about it. And it's actually just hard to make these stories work as movies. Part of me thinks I should have done a movie where there's a gun, and a car chase, and a bomb, and it's a ticket. It's much easier to make that exciting and interesting and engaging.

But the hope is, well, this is much more difficult, but if we can pull it off and make it work, it'll be special and unique and something that you don't normally see every day. So, you're more on a tightrope with it. You had a not a huge budget and you were shooting on a really short timeline. Was that stressful and did your meditation help at all uh... it was uh... the you know is a twenty six days shoot which is very short for film it should have been forty days right in the budget was much smaller than a budget

of for a period piece like this in the scope and the ambition we had should be uh... so it just was really challenging and yeah meditated every day. And it was absolutely helpful. Another thing that was incredibly helpful was I would take naps at lunch. And I wouldn't eat lunch. I would go take a nap.

And it would energize me for the rest of the day. So even just shutting my eyes for 15, 20 minutes was extremely helpful. But did he seem calm to you? Yeah, he was super prepared and on top of things. And that was, you know, it is a fast shoot. I was just remembering it was strange coming back to Columbia today, because we shot at the stairs over here one day,

but you're doing a lot of different locations, a lot of scenes, like, I think we shot every scene with the swami in one day. One day. So it's like, you're racing through emotions, the war in one day. Yeah, the war in one day. The scenes in one day.

So there's days that are just insane and you don't have a moment to think. And then you come out of the end of the shoot and you're like, that was all a blur. Yeah, it wasn't that fun because of how intense it was. There were a few days where I got ahead, where I knew I was gonna make the day early on. And those were fun days when I could just relax

and kind of do it. But for the most part, it was if I cut a scene, if I was to scene, it would really hurt the film. So I had to complete my schedule every single day, and there was no money for any makeup days. So it was due or die every day. And we did it. We literally pulled it off.

We didn't have to drop anything. But A, congratulations. Thank you. Well, congratulations for finishing and also for enduring what sounds like and uh... unremitting uh... existential crisis and that's what it's accurate it was accurate and i uh... i remember by day three i realized what this was gonna be and i just thought okay this is this is what it's gonna be for another twenty

three more days you know just roll with it. But every day was felt like an existential crisis to me because I felt if I didn't pull it off, then if I lost a scene, the film wasn't going to work and then they wouldn't let me direct another movie again. So which maybe wasn't too much pressure on myself. But nonetheless, that's what I was feeling. So we were talking before we were rolling.

That's classic proponsha, this idea. This Buddhist concept of something happens, you start worrying and you just immediately picture living under a bridge. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but you'd also have to move on from it or it would be crippling. I mean, I had to direct a movie and I wasn't crippled. We did it. We got it done every day and that performances were terrific and my crew was fantastic.

I felt the work was at an extremely high level for the time pressure everyone was under. It was a lot of great artists all huddled together trying to make this story worth it. Everyone was really passionate about it. I think that everyone is very proud of where the film ended up. I agree. I enjoyed the movie very much. Oh, thank you. Let me just talk quickly, because I don't want to hold you too long, but other stuff you guys are working on.

Sure. What do you go on to next? Do you go to direct more movies? What's in the hopper? Yeah, I don't know what I'm in a direct next. I'm right now still releasing this film, so I haven't even thought about it. I'm going to be writing a pilot for 20th Century Fox,

and that, and Empire is coming back season four, and perhaps a Trump movie with Mark Alperen and John Hyleman, who are writing a book on it, and I'm very excited to read their book. And maybe it'll be, who knows what it'll be. Maybe it'll be a Hillary movie, or a ban in movie, or what are the challenges of doing a Trump movie? I think the challenges of doing a Trump movie are that every day feels like four movies.

And it's so it's hard to have some perspective on what has actually happened. And when I did recount and game change, recount was five years I wrote that after the Florida recount, game change two years after the election and you're able to have some perspective on what this means. You know, these movies, they're not trying to be documentaries or pieces of journalism, they're trying to be stories. And, you know, I hope this isn't some pretentious, but pieces of art in a way. And art needs to reflect upon a subject matter from a bird's eye point of view,

from a global point of view. Not a, this is what happened point of view. And so to do a Trump movie or a movie about that election, I would need to be able to feel, is if I know what that global story is, what are we trying to say on a much larger scale? And I don't know what that would be right now. It's too soon. But in a few months,

six months, who knows? As soon as their book's done, which like I said, I'm very excited to read, just as a fan. I'm sure it's going to be a gangbusters book. So I'm sort of waiting to see what that story ultimately is. I will say the story in the movie Game Change was about how our elections are becoming more like reality shows. And that we're much more interested in personalities than substance. Yeah, and then what happens the next election a reality show star wins. So I don't know if maybe it's a continuation of that theme of, and what does that say about us as a country?

Yeah, Mark calls it the freak show. And quickly on Empire, did you have a sense that Empire is going to grow into this phenomenon? No, I had no idea. I never thought it would ever get made to be honest with you, that they would ever shoot the pilot. It was this cool idea that I pitched to Lee Daniels as a movie. I thought, oh, that movie could get made.

And then he called me and said he loved it, but he thinks that it's a TV show. And I said, yeah, yeah, it could be like Black Dynasty. And he said, yes, Black Dynasty, that's what it is. And we pitched it, and we sold it to Fox. But it's just seemed too out there for network television. I mean, it's show a hip-hop musical that attacks homophobia.

That's what it was when we conceived it. So, and then the fact that it exploded into this phenomenon was wild to see. And now you're the king of hip-hop. No, yeah. I would like to become the Duke of hip hop. Fair enough. And I know you're working on X-Men now. I'm sure you've signed all the sorts of non-disclosure agreements and if you talk too much

about it a fleet of attorneys will descend from the sky. But what can you tell us about about the movie that is legally safe for you to do so? Yeah, it's called X-Men Dark Phoenix. So it's about Jean Grey and her descent into becoming the Phoenix embodiment of herself. And then, yeah, so it's about that. And Simon Kimberg, who wrote the last few movies, is directing this one.

And so far from what I can gauge, it's got a very dramatic kind of darker talent. So it's going well. The arc of Yorker is really interesting, he's starting about a boy and then being in that amazing British series that I just loved, skins. Oh, I think so. And you were great in it. And now you're JD Salinger. Did you foresee this playing out the way?

I knew it. I will be so happy. Absolutely knew it. No, you never know what steps are going to happen. this playing out the way I will be so absolutely new. No, you never know what Sticks is going to arrive next. And there's not really a set game plan career-wise for me. It's just kind of trying to do interesting roles. And characters, and I find that as I get older, they become more and more interesting. And I get to learn from great people more and more.

And I'm enjoying it. But it also just seems like a pretty big step, a big piece in your evolution to go from the types of roles you've done up until now, and to doing this incredibly meaty. Yeah, and that's something that I've looked forward to. When I was younger, you know, the actors that I would look up to, people like McRuffa Spender and Tom Hardy and James McAvoy and all those guys are lucky to met and worked with now. But all of them, the roles that I found the most

interesting in and brilliant in when they were coming up to being 30 or just after they had 10, 30 and around that sort of age group and I think that's something that comes with maturity. So it's something that I've kind of been looking forward to and this role was certainly one of the first I read where I was like wow okay proper adult which is why you how did this guy yeah last question given how private he was a challenger how do you think he'd feel about this movie I mean you you want to this perfectly so I know you've got it oh he'd hate this movie I mean this is the last possible thing he'd ever want is someone to make a movie about him.

And personally, I never would have done it if he was alive because I think it would have been very emotionally painful for him, which is not at all what I'm going for. And he would have sued the hell out of me too. But I do think that he is a major historical figure. He's no longer with us. There's already been a documentary about him You know his life is worthy to be explored but more importantly

I think that what he went through of having gone through the war and then coming out of the war and creating a masterpiece After suffering the the horrors of that experience is a really inspiring story and I think it's a really moving story And I think that it a really moving story. And I think that it can help people. I've already had many veterans who've seen the film taken by it, just taken by what he was able to accomplish, and also taken by him going away to the woods and people feeling a desire to perhaps do that.

But it's just this idea that his story is worthy of one to be told and worthy to be a film. And I'm honored to get to do it. Thank you both. Bravo. Okay, that does it for another edition of the 10% Happier Podcast. If you liked it, please take a minute to subscribe, rate us. Also if you want to suggest topics, you think we should cover or guests that we should bring

in, hit me up on Twitter at Dan B. Harris. Importantly, I want to thank the people who produced this podcast, Lauren Efron, Josh Tohan, and the rest of the folks here at ABC who helped make this thing possible. We have tons of other podcasts. You can check them out at ABCnewspodcasts.com. I'll talk to you next Wednesday. Hey, hey, prime members. I'll talk to you next Wednesday. Before you go, do us a solid and tell us all about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash Survey.