Ten Percent Happier with Dan Harris - 122: Bob Roth, Meditation Teacher to the Stars

Episode Date: February 14, 2018

Oprah Winfrey, Tom Hanks and David Letterman are just some of the dozens of celebrities who sought out Bob Roth to learn Transcendental Meditation (TM), a mantra-focused meditation practice. Roth, who has been a meditation teacher for over 40 years and has a new book out called, "Strength in Stillness," talks about how he found TM and addresses the criticism and suspicions some former members have raised around TM. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

It kind of blows my mind to consider the fact that we're up to nearly 600 episodes of this podcast, the 10% happier podcast. That's a lot of conversations. I like to think of it as a great compendium of, and I know this is a bit of a grandiose term, but wisdom. The only downside of having this vast library of audio is that it can be hard to know where to start. So we're launching a new feature here, playlists, just like you put together a playlist of your favorite songs.

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the questions that are in my head. Like, it's only fans only bad. Where did memes come from? And where's Tom from MySpace? Listen to Baby, this is Skiki Palmer on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcast. I've been looking forward to this one for a while. Bob Roth is the guy who teaches transcendental meditation to lots of very, very, very well-known people, including George Stephanopoulos and Robin Roberts, both previous guests on this podcast, David Letterman, and so many celebrities such a cavalcade of stars. I can't even begin to list them all, but we'll hear him talk about it a little bit.

And I've met him one time before we had lunch about a year ago, and we had a very frank conversation at that time because there is for a variety of reasons, some level of distrust or suspicion on the part of some in the meditation tradition out of which I emerge Buddhism slash secular mindfulness about TM, Transnental Meditation, which kind of emerges out of Hindu or Vedic meditation. And there have been critical books written about TM by former members that have

helped fuel some of the aforementioned skepticism, cynicism, suspicion that I was talking about, including actually, you might want to go back and listen to Claire Hoffman, gave an interview on this podcast. She grew up in the TM, or a specific part of the TM organization in Iowa and wrote a book called Readings from Utopia Park in which she sort of talked in some mixed ways

about all that. So long way of saying there's been some weirdness, let's just say, about between the two schools of meditation. And in part fueled by some of the things that former T. Embers have come out to say, about the founder of the organization, the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who again you'll hear us talk about. So Bob and I had lunch about a year ago, and I asked him all the obnoxious questions I could come up with and I found them to be utterly undefensive about it.

And so I was looking forward to having him on here, that he has a new book out called Strength in Stillness, the Power of Transcendental Meditation. And I wanted to talk to him about his book, about the practice of TM, and then also wanted to just take off all these questions that I've heard about the organization, and you'll get to hear him answer him,

and it's really interesting. And his story of how he got into this organization is also quite interesting. So without further ado, here he is, Bob Roth. From ABC, this is the 10% happier podcast. I'm Dan Harris. Sir, thank you for coming on. Wonderful to be here. Congratulations. Yeah, thank you. It's a first for me to write a book like this and to have it be recognized

Increasingly by the media. Yeah, it's a first something familiar for you, but new for me. You know if you feel folks in the media I do know a few folks in the media and they all know you So so before we get to the book, I just want to can you give me some of your story personal story How did you? Meditation Bob as Dave Letterman once called you. How did you come to meditation? unusual story I grew up in a very political family in the 1950s and 1960s in the San Francisco Bay area My family was so political that I like to say that I knew I was a Democrat before I knew I was Jewish

Because we were just that's all we talked about. We just talked politics and gold water and Johnson. And I worked for Bobby Kennedy. And when I was in high school and I wanted to be a US senator like Bobby Kennedy after he was assassinated. And I went to Berkeley. There's too much detail here. Oh, I went to Berkeley in 1968 with the intention of going to Bolt Law School.

And that was my career path. And my dad was a doctor. My mom was an educator. 1968 with the intention of going to Bolt Law School and that was my career path and My dad was a doctor my mom was an educator and Berkeley in 1968 was insane and it was I Mean I was going to school full-time. I was working full-time. I had tanks parked outside my door because of people's park they were tear gas and it just dawned on me that politics and political life as a channel for healing the nation, soul of the nation, that wasn't gonna happen.

So I thought, okay, rather than sweeping political change, how about if I worked one at a time and I got into education? So I thought I'll get a doctor in educational curriculum and develop curriculum. I was particularly interested in inner city school kids. And as I was working towards that, I thought, okay, you know, help kids from kindergarten and pre-kindergarten, get the tools, equip them so that they could handle the ever impossible world that was coming their way. And the old quote by Yates that said, education shouldn't be about filling the pale,

it should be about lighting a fire. So I'm going to school full time, work in full time, tanks, stressed, and a friend of mine who I trusted, who was normal said, you know, you should learn transcendental meditation. And I had two responses. First of all, it was outside of, I didn't even know what it meant. And my other response was,

I got enough issues with my own religion. So it was a religion. He said, no, no, it's not a religion. You have to believe in anything. It's really good. Wakes up your brain. It's relaxing. So, I was pretty stressed. And I was an interdrug. So I said, well, give it a try. I trusted him. And I learned it. And well, one of the things that I remember going to the talk, introductory talk, and this woman said, gave the talk and I said, okay, how much of this stuff, but I didn't say stuff. Do I have to believe in for it to work?

Because I'm a really skeptical person by nature. I'm not a believer, you know what I'm saying? And she said, I could be 100% skeptical and the technique would work just as well as anything else. And I tried it. And it was immediately significant, immediately relaxing, physiologically just, boom.

And yet my mind was settled but wide awake. And one of my first thoughts afterwards wasn't about getting enlightened was, oh, I'd like to teach this to kids. Huh. So I became a teacher three years later. I studied with Maharishi Mehashi-Ogi. I became a teacher in 1972. I'm sorry, Transcendental Meditation. So let me just have you for one second. Two things that would be worth explaining to the audience.

One is, what are you doing in your mind while meditating in this way? The TM way. That's a big one. And who is Maharishi Maharishi? Great. So, to step back for a moment, to understand transcendental meditation, to what I'm doing is I'm thinking of mantra. And I'm thinking it in which is a NTM is a word or a sound that has no meaning. And I'm thinking it away that was trained,

I was trained one toto-one by a teacher of how to think the mantra effortlessly. Easily, in accord with the mind's own nature, which is to seek some field of greater satisfaction. And when I do that, from the first meditation, or second max, my attention goes, the analogy I like to use is of an ocean. Waves, choppy waves on the surface, you're on a little boat, you're in the middle of the Atlantic and you get these giant waves and you think, oh my God, the whole ocean is enough evil. But if you could do a cross-section of the ocean, you'd realize little 30-foot waves, ocean

is a mild, deep, silent depth at the depth. It's not the whole ocean. So the analogy is the mind. The surface of the mind, the waves, called the monkey mind, I like to call it the god of god of god of mind. I got to do this and I got to do that and I got to go him and I got all the goddess. And it's a natural human desire to say, I'd love to have some inner equanimity, some inner clarity, some inner focus, someettledness, and the operative word there is inner, and the question is, such a thing as an inner, and if so, how do we get there? So in transcendental meditation, we hypothesize, there's a vertical dimension to the mind. The mind is not just the waves, but there's intuition and deep feeling level, and deep within

every human being right now, you don't have to believe it, is a level of the mind which is calm and settled and wide awake. And in transcendental meditation, we use a mantra, which I just said a word or a sound, no meaning simple, that a teacher gives you, and teaches you how to use it so completely without 100% without effort, not 20% effort, 100% without effort, the mind just settles down and accesses that calm. We can go in later about the research behind it and all of that, but accesses that calm. And one last thing.

Question is, there's no time limit on this. This is a podcast you got. Go for it. Question is people say, well, how do you get there? Because some people say to me, well, I've tried mindfulness, I've tried vipassana, and they do it and I encourage you to find, that's great. But that there's some monitoring, they call it open monitoring, some mindfulness awareness of thoughts, and it can be, as you had in your, the way, the brain with the training, the

brain. Yeah, it's like with a light training the brain. Yeah, like with a, uh, uh, uh, light and timber. Yeah, yeah, light and timber. Transcendental meditation, 180 degrees opposite of that. There's no taming of the brain. The reason is it was Maharishi and I'll come back to his his insight that it's not the nature of the mind to wander aimlessly. The mind does not have to be corralled, or you don't have to have like a horse in a small corral

and then open it up. The deep nature of the mind is to be drawn to something more satisfying. So if you listen to some music, if you're listening to terrible music in this room and beautiful music comes on in the other room, there's no effort, your attention goes to beautiful music. If you are going through the dials and you have some lousy show and you find this one with an interesting conversation with a guest, your mind stays with it. It's not an acquired

skill to listen to beautiful music. So the hypothesis is, is that inside you and me, there's a field of great satisfaction and charm. And in transcendental meditation, like a dive, we learn how to give the attention of the mind in inward direction and Dan without any effort, literally. It's not only the easiest meditation, one ever does, it's the easiest thing you ever do. The mind is drawn inward, brought about by its own nature. So I would just say I think the lion tamer thing

is a little misleading. I mean, it's my fault. But I use this for listeners who are unfamiliar with it. I use this cartoon that has a lion tamer. It's a good little whip and then he's got a lion on, instead of the lion, it's a brain. But I've been justifiably criticized for this because that is a bit of an aggressive attitude toward your own mind.

And even in mindfulness meditation, which is different from TM and some significant ways in that we don't use a mantra and we just sort of focus on the breath. And then we'll get distracted. We start again. That effortlessness is actually a big part of that practice as well. I use the lion tamer as a joke, but it is important not to latch onto it too seriously, because it does engender, again, as I said before, a sort of hostile attitude toward the coming zing dong. So the nature of your mind? Yeah. Yeah, the nature of the mind is crazy and chaotic

and that's okay, fighting it is actually the worst thing you can do, the best thing you can do is just see it for what it is and let it go. So I think there's probably more commonality between the right. Well, you know, the interesting thing, because I read your book, I think it's great. I don't see, it's like mindfulness techniques

and I've been trained by Sharon Salzburg and John Kabazin and I think it's great. I don't see it as siloing and you and I had that discussion before. In the toolbox, there are many tools and in mindfulness, there are many different techniques and my understanding is from my own practice. You learn how to put your attention on your breath.

It naturally, you put your attention on some body scan, naturally, put your attention on the environment. So in transcendental meditation, you simply learn how to put your attention at that deepest level. And so it's not a question of either or I think it's a yes and. Absolutely. I mean, there's a lot of sectarianism you and I have discussed this off line. There's a lot of sectarianism in the meditation I have discussed this. Don't like it. Off line. There's a lot of sectarianism in the meditation world. Not a ton, but there's some.

And it's getting a little less. I think so. And I'm of the view, some people will say to me once they know a little bit about meditation, they'll like, oh, so you're a mindfulness guy, so you do look down on TM. Absolutely not. TM is, you can correct me if I'm right, if I run a stray factually here, but TM is a version of Vedic meditation, which has been around for 3,000 years. There's, to me, the argument for it is unassailable. Now, there you can, there are, we'll talk about this, there are people who have qualms with some parts of TM and we can talk about that as well. But in terms of being overly siloed,

I'm of the view that there are lots of ways to train the mind. And you should investigate all of them if you and find what's right for you and you can actually do many of them at the same time. Again, this is just my view. Yeah, I mean, again, tools in the toolbox. And I think a person should investigate. If someone says to me, well, I've tried meditation and it's hard or I can't do it, I can't clear my mind.

Well, I see, keep looking. But my only thing is, look where there's data. There's these days, there's such a fad. Now, there's legitimate forms. There's people who've been doing it for a while, and they're really going deeply into the whole field and measuring and evaluating. And then there's just sort of noise.

And I think noise is something you can just look for substance. That's what I'd say, yes. Look for substance, because the problem, what I think, what draws a person to look for meditation, is often something very substantive. Either it's anxiety or depression, or this or that, or else it's just a desire to be 10% happier That's our significant things don't be trivial when you're looking for how to address those issues That's what I would say. Yeah, I fully agree with that. So Maharishi Maheshiyogi. Yeah, okay. So Maharishi Maheshiyogi

So Maharishi Maharishi. Yeah, okay. So Maharishi Maharishi, not the person that you read about and have read about if you're my age in the newspapers, Maharishi Maharishi was a physicist, trained as a physicist. By the way, he was in the newspapers in your age because he was the dough and it's not going to the battles. That's right.

Was a physicist, trained as a physicist, and then had a chance to spend 13 years with his teacher, whose name was Brahmanandasar Swati in India. And after Brahmanandar Guru Dev, they called him passed away. Maharishi took two years of silence. And then in 1955, he began traveling around India, saying basically that meditation is for everyone, the ability to transcend, and we can talk

about that later, what does transcend mean. The ability to transcend is everyone's birthright. This isn't something that some people, an acquired skill that you get better at over months and years, you actually can master it, pretty radical, master it within a few days, the ability to transcend. And he was just a radical. But people learned it, and then he started traveling around the world. In 1959, he came to San Francisco.

The first thing he did is he went to scientists at UCLA and said, you should study this because no one's going to believe me the way I'm dressed. Study this. This is going to have neurophysiological changes. So he's teaching TM and, and around the world, and then in 1967, he's giving a talk at a hotel in London and three young guys walk in, followed by a bunch of press, and it was the Beatles. At three of the Beatles, Ringel was at home with his newborn son. So then next day, they go off to Wales or something,

and then they learn to Beatles, learn to meditate from Harishi, and then next day they go off to Wales or something and then they learn to Beatles learn to meditate from Harishi and then next year they spend a month, some of them in India and then Maharishi became guru to the Beatles and all this sort of stuff and I'll just fast forward. I was with, because I spent a lot of time over the years with Maharishi, he passed away in 19, I mean in 2008, 2008, 2008. And a reporter was asking him before he passed away 50 years, he said, you must have been very happy, you know, what the Beatles did for your movement. And he said, I love the Beatles, but they actually set my work back 30 years because I wanted this to be a technique that stood on its own. And it wasn't stood on its own and it wasn't just for

hippies and it wasn't, you know, for tune in, that sort of thing. This was just, would be a scientifically established technique. And then he said, it's finally coming back around to where he wanted it to be. Interestingly, at a time that Paul and Ringo are very strongly advocating and supporting the work of the David Lynch Foundation bringing TM around. So that was his comment that that actually set his work back 30 years. So now you are with the David Lynch Foundation. What is that? Who's David Lynch for those who don't know who he is? And what do you guys do? David Lynch Twin Peaks, great filmmaker going back to great filmmaker going back to Eraserhead and Blue Velvet and all these things. 13 years, David had been practicing TM since 1973. I started in 1969.

Pretty close at the same amount of time. And we had gotten to be friends, although we're completely different people, because I have a sort of a journalist mentality where I want everybody to understand every word I'm saying and he just loves abstraction, but 13 years ago I went to him and I said I'd love to start a foundation Raised money so we could bring TM to inner city school kids Accurational mission from 1969, right same thought and he said great And so we started the foundation neither of us knew what a 501c3 was. We just knew we wanted to do this. Started the foundation, got it established, raised money. And now today we've taught, provided scholarships for 600,000 inner city school

kids to learn to meditate. And up until then, you had been part of the Maharishis or T. Immorganization. Oh, yeah. And I spent, I spent time with him at different times throughout over the years. Yeah. yeah, and I still am I mean, I'm still I'm a teacher of transcendental meditation. So there's two different 501 C3s Maharshi Foundation T.M. organization is the organization that trains teachers and open centers and it's a non-profit organization that The David Lynch Foundation was established as its own 501c3 to raise funds so we could Contract with the TM organization train some of these teachers specially to work with veterans who have trauma or work with Intercity school kids who will live in fear or women who are survivors of domestic violence so they're they're

Sister organizations collaborate and you work both. Yeah, how much does it cost to learn TM? sister organizations collaborate. And you work both. Yeah. How much does it cost to learn to you? It goes anywhere from about $960 if a person can afford it, down to $360. If a person can't afford it, down to nothing, if they have no money.

We really now do it so there's almost no reason. If a person genuinely wants to learn to meditate, there's no obstacle to learning. There's no financial obstacle if they're genuinely want to learn. And the prices came because it used to be like $2,000, right? There was at some point, 10 years ago, or something like that. And I kind of think it was,

because at the time, Maharishi was doing other things, and there wasn't a real outreach to teach TM at the time. There was other things that were going on looking at Ayurvedic Medicine. But then, you know, he always wanted it to be affordable and he always is mission from the beginning was everybody should have access to this. And what we're doing now is we're in Washington, DC working with members of Congress and conducting and funding or helping to fund the research phase three clinical trial, so that TM could be reimbursable for any veteran who wants to meditate for free.

And we're working with, for example, the Department of Defense. Three years ago, gave a two and a half million dollars for a study to look at the effective TM on post-traumatic stress on post 9-11 veterans. Just finished it compared to something called prolonged exposure, which is when you may be know this, a veteran sees videos of people being blown up and that numbs them. And TM was found to be as good if not better than prolonged exposure, but the advantage was the veterans loved meditating and they didn't like looking at the videos of people being blown up. Well, why does it cost so much? Because that is quite a big difference from most other forms of meditation. Well, yes and no, it costs so much because what happens, most other forms of meditation,

are you can read it, learn it from a book, you can take mass, you can get it online, the ability to do those types of mindfulness practices are much simpler to teach. Transcendental meditation requires one-to-one instruction, to learn that ability to transcend, to go beyond the conscious, focused, got a monkey mind and settle down and experience that transcendent level of the mind that one's own quiet self. And that requires about 10 hours of instruction from a teacher individually and in small groups. And then you also have any TM teacher anywhere in the world is available to you to support your meditation for the rest of your life

at no expense. So what you're doing when you do that is you're allowing, you're paying, if you have the money, you're paying that person's salary so that they can rate, it's a profession. So they could raise a family and take kids on vacation. It's a modest income. Most people don't start for $960. You know, they can't afford it, but those who can pay so that others who can't afford it can. But it's actually, I was one time being challenged

by a psychiatrist who said $960. And then he paused and said, well, I get $520 for a 50-minute session. And this could be hundreds of hours of training individually. So it's not, it's insignificant. Because it's the individual instruction. And you also ask something unusual of the students, which is two 20-minute sessions every day. Yeah, and I found it interesting, because you say in your book

even one minute or five minutes and build up and build up. And people come to me all the time and they say, 20 minutes, I can't even, I can't close my eyes. I've done mindfulness after three or four or eight minutes, I'm going out of my mind. And I said, just give me the four days because it's an hour a day over four days. And within the first or second day, you say 20 minutes, you tell them, okay, 20 minutes, they go, what?

I never imagined I could close my eyes and meditate for that long. Because the mind is drawn to something more satisfying and if you just sit on a horizontal level and try and control that, it's a monkey mind. But if you actually give the mind the attention of a deeper level, that vertical dimension, it's increasingly satisfying and time goes by very quickly. Well, here's my read on this. This is that working with a mantra is a concentration exercise, concentration, meditation. You're saying no? No.

Not in transcendental meditation. Okay, well tell me where I'm wrong. Okay, because if you are concentrating on a mantra and this is why it requires, and when we had that conversation before, I said, I'm happy to teach you, it's completely different. If you're concentrating on a mantra, there is no difference than if you're concentrating

on your breath or concentrating on a point in your body or anything. Transcendental meditation, the mantra itself is fluid. So, mental repetition of the mantra in transcendental meditation is not a clear pronunciation. It's a faint idea. It's an intention. And that's where that personal instruction comes in. Because if you're just going to concentrate on a mantra, you can read that in a book. But if so number one, mantra has no meaning. Because if it had a meaning in

that analogy, the cross section of the ocean, if it had a meaning, you're stuck up here on meaning on the god of god of god of level of the mind, rigid, concrete meaning. Also, the way the mantra is used, fluid, fast, slow, loud, soft. How to handle that? How to deal with thoughts? So it is very, because it's not the mantra, mantra is like a vehicle. And you teach a person to do that. And then within moments, we teach 10-year-old children to do this. And within moments, they have that same transcendent experience and time disappears. So it is not concentration form of meditation. Well, so I think we're going to hang up on the word concentration.

It's not a clear repetition. It is not an end in itself. It is not the goal is not to keep repeating the mantra. The goal is to, there is no goal, the purpose of the meditation is to use the mantra in an effortless way that allows the attention of the mind to turn within like you're teaching a child how to dive. Say, honey, stand like this, put your set up the conditions and without any effort, gravity takes over. So in this instance, without any effort, your mind just sinks in. And you may be without the mantra for minutes at a time. And then you're aware you're not with it and then you're taught how to bring it back. And then you go off and you bring it back. And that's TM. It's not, oh, I was, with the mantra,

98% of the time, I'm a good, I'm a good medic. What's the difference between TM and Vedic meditation, which is, you know, said ancient Hindu meditation, which also uses a mantra and is taught in all over the place today. So, use of a mantra in meditation is used everywhere. I mean, that's the use of a mantra, you know, that you can have in Christian meditation and anything, you know, the idea of a sound. And some Buddhists.

That's right, that's right. The difference is, again, how that mantra is used, if it's used in what had been a traditional way of you, you know, you repeated a hundred times or a job of meditation or you just keep repeating, repeating, repeating, then it's just keeping you on that surface level of the mind. And nothing much, you don't have the transcendent experience. It's only in that effortlessness, gentle effortlessness without any intention that the attention, that is like turn the attention of your mind inward, and you just, these, in that cross section of the ocean, these deeper levels are increasingly satisfying, and then you have the experience of the transcendent, unbounded awareness. They call it pure consciousness. Your own

unbounded settled self, 100% happiness, that field, It's called onanda bliss consciousness. So your attention is drawn towards that. And when you have that experience, this is the interesting thing, so we can shift to science for a moment. When you're doing concentration forms of meditation, repetition of a mantra, you get, it's create something called gamma brain waves, which are 20 to 50 cycles per second. And that's clear your mind of thoughts, concentration. When you do open monitoring, that's the second type of meditation which is an observational tool, observing your thoughts, observing your

breath. That creates something like, and you, I'm sure you know this, theta brain waves which are 5 to 7 cycles per second, pre-onset dream, also alpha 2, which is 10 to 12 cycles per second, the back of the brain. During transcendental meditation, a completely different brain wave signature called alpha 1, which is 8 to 10 cycles per second, and that is a state of deep relaxation and inner wakefulness. There is no engagement necessarily the prefrontal cortex. Also at that time, there's a profound state of physiological relaxation. There's a reduction of cortisol levels by 30% to 40% and a reduction in reactivity to stress.

So there's a whole different neurophysiology in all three of these different types of meditation. What do you know about the janas? Have you heard anything about it? So the jana, we've had previous guests talk about, in particular, Lee Brazington, anybody listening who wants to go back and listen to Lee Brazington. J-H-A-N-A is a form of... Is it jana or jana?

I've heard it pronounced as jana, but back before I put it. But this is in the Buddhist world. Definitely a concentration meditation. We were concentrating on the breath, but it then opens up into these various sort of rooms in the mind, which seem to me similar to the transcending that you were describing, that you lose track of space. Yes. Yes.

Right. So, this is what I meant before when I used the word concentration, which kind of, I don't mean this in the majority, but kind of set you off a little bit with triggering a little bit. What I, all I was trying to say when you were comparing a little bit TM to mindfulness and how one is easy and one is often thought of as hard Sorry, go ahead. No, go ahead. I was just gonna say that that concentration and TM maybe not the right word, but

these practices are designed as to to produce tranquility. Now mindfulness is a different thing. Mindfulness is the ability to see clearly what's happening in your head so that you are not owned by it. And I think both are incredibly, incalculably valuable skills and mental skills to develop and they can work in tandem. Huge work to get. Now, I want to say, the transcendent is not,

the door to transcendent is transcendence is not just because of someone does TM. The experience of transcendence can happen. When you hold your newborn baby in your arms, there's a silence. There's an amazing bliss that happens at that moment. There can be a moment of unity between partners. Athletes talk about the zone where just all of a sudden everything gets quiet and clear and everything comes that you in slow motion. So a transcendent experience, artists have been talking about this forever.

The purpose of meditation is not to have it be random. Purpose of meditation is to access that on a regular basis. And are people reaching bliss consciousness in like day one or two of your sessions with them? Or is it take years to get there? Everyone is different. And the only reason people are different is the degree of stress that they have in their nervous system because that idea that mind and body are one. So if I teach, which I do, veterans who can't sleep for more than an hour for months on

end, and I teach them to meditate, you know, within a few days, most report that they're sleeping much longer. Now, the experience of bliss consciousness is not there, but the expression of a healthier physiology and brain is there. So the benefit... I've heard that anecdotally, just from people I know of taking TM, who just described that they feel much more rested. Like the short, and it's full of a lot of interesting questions. What does happiness really mean? How do I get the most out of my time here on Earth? And what really is the best cereal?

These are the questions I seek to resolve on my weekly podcast, Life is short with Justin Long. If you're looking for the answer to deep philosophical questions, like, what is the meaning of life? I can't really help you. But I do believe that we really enrich our experience here by learning from others. And that's why in each episode I like to talk with actors, musicians, artists, scientists, and many more types of people about how they get the most out of life. We explore how they felt during the highs. And sometimes more importantly, the lows of their careers. We discuss how they felt during the highs and sometimes more importantly the lows of their careers We discuss how they've been able to stay happy during some of the harder times But if I'm being honest, it's mostly just fun chats between friends about the important stuff

Like if you had a sandwich named after you what would be on it follow life is short wherever you get your podcasts You can also listen ad-free on the Amazon music or wonder yeah now app. Now the other thing that you said, which I think brings them together, is I think what, for me, what Transcendental Meditation does, I practice it for 20 minutes first thing in the morning. I get up, it's better than sleep, George Stephanopoulos. That's the same thing. Yeah, same thing. It's like worth hours.

Now, in the middle of the day, if things start getting intense, I know body scans, I know breathing techniques, which you write about in the 10 breaths. I know those things. They come in very handy. The ability to be more mindful, number one, spontaneously arises if I'm a little calmer inside. But these tools that you're talking about are necessary. It's not one or the other.

It's yes and. Yeah, it'd be like talking about fitness and saying, well, you can only do cardio, you're not should do any muscular work. It's, or you're eating one, you're eating leafy greens and you're not having, yeah, protein. Yeah. I agree.

I think there, I can hear my Buddhist compatriots saying, well, you can access tranquility and mindfulness within the Buddhist tradition. I think there I can hear my Buddhist compatriots saying, well, you can access tranquility and mindfulness within the Buddhist tradition, and that's probably true, but I'm pretty non-sectarian, so I'm going to come learn T.M. from you. I have no beef with it whatsoever. The first of all, my feeling is all these practices actually predate Vedic or Buddhist.

I think these practices were around and they got adopted by the different religious traditions. For example, I think the ability to transcend has nothing to do with Vedic or Hindu or a lot of these things you're talking about. But Buddhist, they got sort of organized by the religion, but I think in some ways, if you are teaching jumping jacks in a Catholic school, then I mean jumping jacks are Catholic. So I really think my ability to transcend, I'm a good Jewish boy. I don't know anything about Hinduism.

I've been practicing this for 50 years almost, teaching it for 46. It's fine, it's a religion, doesn't appeal, doesn't interest me. I practice it because it's a simple technique that I can do on an airplane. I can do it in a car, but someone else has to be driving. I did it at Yankee Stadium during a bad game. You can do it anywhere. Noise is not an obstacle. So you've been known 50 years. Are you stress-free? Are you imperturbable? No, but I'll tell you what I have is a whole lot of energy. I find that I am... That's a good question because I'm feeling really good these days and I think, is it because of all these years of meditate, is it just maturing, you know, just natural growth? But I feel really good.

This the best I've ever felt in my life. This is the healthiest I've ever felt in my life. This is the most energy I've ever had. Physically, and psychologically. Never had, I'm 67. I've never had this much energy in my life. I've never felt this clear, focused. But of course I get upset. I mean, not the human being, and I don't affect something. And if someone says, well, you've been meditating. How come you got upset? I said, I don't. I'm a normal person. I'm just a guy, I'm doing the best I can, TM is great,

but there's stuff that happens in life, that overwhelms, and next time I hope I do better, that I'm not proud of the way I behave, next time I'll do better, and it's meditation, or do I need to talk to somebody, but it's a, I'm a big, I just wanna grow, I just wanna grow, and I do those things that help me grow. So let Louis test your stress response because as you know, there are a lot of, there have

over times, including some guests on this podcast who have very critical things to say about the TM organization. Bring it on. So, and I know from having spoken to you about this personally, that actually you're, you don't appear to be very defensive about this stuff. So we'll just have a good chat about it. Where to start? Flying.

Oh. So there's this thing in the TM organization as far as I understand it, where out in you guys have some land out in Iowa. By the way, that's an actual state. Right. I know. You have a field Iowa. By the way, that's an actual state. Yeah, I feel that. Yeah, fair filled Iowa golden domes on the property and people do this thing called yogic flying. yogic flying. What is that? Okay, great. So I'm glad you asked because what people talk about it and what people read in the newspapers completely different than the reality.

Okay. Okay. Have you ever heard of the is completely different than the reality. Okay. Okay. Have you ever heard of the Patanjali's Yoga Sutras? They were written 2,500 years ago. They're the treaties on yoga. Patanjali was a great teacher. And so Patanjali's Yoga Sutras. I've heard of the Yoga Sutras.

Yeah, that's Patanjali's Yoga. Same thing. Yeah, so it's Patanjali was the teacher. In Patanjali's Yoga Sutras, there's two parts of it. The first half of the yoga sutras are a description of how to transcend, how do they call it, Turriatee that fourth state. Because that's the idea that when you transcend,

it's a state of consciousness distinct, neurophysiologically distinct, from waking, dreaming, and sleeping states. It's own state of consciousness. So Potangeli talks about how to transcend. And then, in the second part, this yoga sutras, Potangeli says, now, if you could think from that deepest level of the mind, which is supposed to be this infinite creativity, infinite happiness, that field of bliss within. If you could function from that level, what would happen to your ability to senses here, see, touch, taste, smell, how awakened can human senses be, how compassionate, interesting

can we be, how friendly can we be? How happy can we feel? How strong can our intuition be? To the extent Patanjali hypothesized that if you could think from that level, that you could actually harness laws of nature that are deeper than gravity, that you could actually move, this is what he said, move through space. And then

there's people who talk about Catholic monks who did this and there's Buddhists, Buddhists, monks who talk about levitation. So when that was brought to Maharshi's attention, that's definitely true, by the way. So I'm a Buddhist, but there are lots of stuff in the Buddhist tradition. They talk about superpowers and all the time. Absolutely. I mean, I don't buy it, but of course not. Just to be clear. No, so it's, so when I bring up allegations of weirdness in the TM organization,

I don't want to make it seem like I don't come for out of a tradition where there aren't plenty of the same. Right, so, and it, so it's not even the TM tradition because, or whatever organization. organization, I mean, even that there's 8 million people who do TM. There's maybe 100,000 who've done. So, anyway, so what Maharshi said, he said Maharshi Maharshi. Well, he pronounced it Maharshi. Maharshi Maharshi. He pronounced it. Anyway, what he said is, okay, the TM part works, the transcending part works, changes

to physiology, all that. Let's do, he called it research in the field of consciousness. Let's just do research. Let's see if something, he was right for the first half of the book. Let's see if he's right in the second half of the book. And so he taught these sutras, the yoga sutras, of Potangely, and those are advanced meditation techniques. So you're sitting in meditation and you're quiet and settled and unbounded and all that in principle, and then

you learn how do I think from that most powerful level of my mind. And there's sutras, just two compassion, kindness, all these things that we know there's many sort of meditation all these things that we know there's many sort of meditation approaches to talk about loving kindness, but have those thoughts from that deepest level. Not up here where you're also fighting with thoughts about your your wife and your kids, but from that level of silence. And so one of those was the so-called flying Sutra. So Maharji said, let's try that. Nobody levitates. Nobody even said they were levitating. The press love to play on that. Well, the video I've seen is people sitting, yeah, hopping. And if you go back to the hopping in with their legs crossed, yeah. Well, for those

people who can do that, if you go back to the yoga sutras of Potangeli, you'll see he describes three stages of this flying. The first stage you you I'll show it to you is hopping like frogs Second stage is where you're able to go up and stay and then the third stage Potentially said passage to the skies. Okay. Have you seen anybody hit the second stage? No, and I don't have any the thing is I don't I don't have any Like people say well you've been meditating this long ago you enlighten us. I don't have any, like people say, well, you've been meditating this long, though, you enlighten us. I don't even care. I don't even care.

I want to do good in this world. I'm not trying to get enlightened. And if I did that, which I learned to do those things, I've learned those yoga sutras. It's great. It's like, it's like when I do that hopping thing, it's like I play sports, particularly when I was a kid. You do the hopping thing.

Yeah, I've done that. Yeah. It's like nothing. Think on the regular. It's like I play sports, particularly when I was a kid. You do the hopping thing. Yeah, I've done that. Yeah. It's like nothing. Like on the regular, huh? Like regularly you do it or yeah, okay. And you do it on a piece of foam. It's like not anything strange. It's nothing. It looks strange. It looks very strange. Inside, the experience is a little bit, I remember as a kid.

Because it's basically yoga and meditation together. It's a physicality of yoga and the mind settling down and wide awake. And the best feeling, the best description I can say is when I was a kid, and I lived in Marim County in the 1950s, 60s, you could run forever. And you'd play sports and you could play from, you could play basketball from morning till night and never get and be so happy. And that's the feeling.

And it's actually not any different than that. I'm really embarrassed. I'm spacing on her name, the woman who wrote greetings from Utopia Park. Um, oh, Claire Hoffman. Claire Hoffman, yes. I taught her daughters. Right.

So Claire has been a guest on this podcast and she wrote a book Greetings from Utopia Park, which is in many ways quite critical of the TM organization, but also she talks about yoga flying and she says that she had an experience while doing it. Um, and I my instinct as a died in the wool skeptic, because I've seen the video. It looks really weird and I was I was like, this is nuts. But she who again has a lot of credibility with me just because she's, oh,

super critical of the organization in some ways, but also said she went back in the course of writing this book and she did the yoga flying and had something happen. If you took it, you didn't say she flew, but. No, of course, nobody has. It's the first stage. It's very energizing. It's accessing. And people can be listening to saying, Oh, God, this is like Wonco. Well, you know, 50 years ago, when I learned or 40 years

ago, if you said you meditated, people said you're out of your mind. You didn't even say the word meditation and polite company. So it does look unusual, but the inner experience of it is normal. Fine. It's great. People on this podcast are used to, but the other thing I want to tell you, it's any weirder than if somebody came and looked at guys wearing helmets and pads smacking into each other, you know, and thinking that's normal. Or if what you consider normal. If a space alien came here and saw a gym and people running in place for an hour or picking

things, have you things up and putting them down systematically? Yes, of course. It's what you're used to. It's really what you're used to. In the 80s, yoga and sushi were weird, so. That's right. And so if you're, see it, you say, oh, that guy's just doing that yoga meditation integration, that's what he's doing.

But I just want to internally, internally, it's a very normal feeling. It's not like you're in a trance. It's like, find if you're doing exercise, only this is sort of blissful exercise. But, but. Yeah, go ahead. Now, I love the butts. I get, oh, I know I have one more thing I have to say. Go, go, go, go. Claire was not critical of the TM organization writ large. Claire was talking about Maharishi University of Management in Iowa, where there's a fully accredited university accredited by the same organization that accredits University of Michigan. And it was in the 1980s, not today, but in the 1980s, she was critical of the way she was raised at that time. Yeah, because she was raised there.

She lives right there. That's right. She was raised there. Her mother lives there to this day. She goes back to this day. She's a really good friend of mine. As I said, I taught her kids to meditate. Claire's kids.

Yeah. And so it's just, and that community is changing just like everything is changing. It's like growing up. People are integrated. It used to be, oh, if you ate organic food, you were like way off on the side. But now organic food is everywhere. So if you were to go into Fairfield, Iowa with me,

it's a very cool hip. They got coffee shops and music, and clubs and all that sort of stuff. And the only difference is twice a day people meditate. It's very cool. Yeah the only difference is, twice a day, people meditate. It's very cool. Yeah, no, I think twice a day meditation sounds very sane. But in terms of, this is the butt. And you'll correct me,

because you know the fact better than I do. But the Maharishi did talk about some supernatural power, strength of an elephant and all sorts of stuff that I have read about. Those are from the yoga sutras of Patanjali. Marie, she said all the time, he said, none of this is mine. This comes from the ancient Vedic texts or before. He described the work that he did is he said, if you had some a closet and you had some

vases and they were on a shelf and they were sort of dusty and someone came along and said, if you had a closet and you had some vases and they were on a shelf and they were sort of dusty and someone came along and said, oh, let's take this down, dust it off, what is this? And this is meditation. Let's dust this, oh, this is yoga. Let's dust this one off. Oh, this is Ayurveda. Let's dust this one off.

Which is dip Hindu health. Yeah, Vedic. It's a Vedic, excuse me, it's a Vedic approach to natural medicine. There's another one that's similar to Feng Shui, which is called Vastu architecture. Now, though all those things are actually quite sane, the whole idea of Ayurveda is, and they're starting to do this now, you don't necessarily to cure a disease, just give the medicine and blast the body, strengthen the immune system, take those herbs and supplements that can die it, they can actually strengthen

your resistance, which is what they're starting to do now in immunotherapy with cancer. And when it comes to Vastu, that was, okay, you can have a green house, we live inside 90% of the time So the whole approach to green architecture is you know have non-toxic materials well Vostu Says okay, how much sunlight do you have what kind of ventilation do you have so it's all practical stuff? But but when he said strength of an elephant he just was quoting from Patanjali. He didn't mean it literally no No, not that I know of he never sold toilet to me no he just said stronger more robust healthier more vital what about the stuff about

his sort of personal peccadillos you know there been there was a book I I can't remember the name of the woman who wrote this but robes of silk feet of clay or something like that she talks about sleeping with him and others have said that they slept with him there was a whole sexy, shady thing. So here's a wonderful story. By the way, you seem not very stressed as I'm asking you these questions. No, because I tell her that nobody else can see you exactly. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no saying that she had slept with Margie. No one else who was around at the time, and that's like thousands of people, ever said that ever happened. He's been running an organization for Rana for 50 years. So I just go find it's her opinion. She can say whatever she wants. Now the sexy Sadie thing is very interesting. Can I just leave you just say? Because I actually say he's a song by the Beatles. Yes.

And which John Lennon says, what have you done? You made a fool of everyone. Right. And it was like the story that's been told about it. Which I think there's a pretty good rebuttal on. But anyway, and I'll let you handle that part. The story that's been told about it is he was upset

because somebody accused the, they were hanging out with a Maharishi and I'll let you handle that part. The story that's been told about it is he was upset because somebody accused the, they were hanging out with a Maharishi and allegedly the Maharishi made a pass that somebody, maybe me a pharaoh's sister and John Lennon was pissed about it and wrote sexy Sadie as it, it kissed off to the Maharishi. That being said, as far as I know, Paul McCartney and Ringo are still active TM practitioners.

And... John Lennon and Yoko meditated, I'll tell you a wonderful story. being said, as far as I know, Paul McCartney and Ringo are still active TM practitioners. And John Lennon and Yoko meditated, I'll tell you a wonderful story. John Lennon and Yoko meditated their whole life. He apologized to Maharshi a few years later and he used to call and check in with Maharshi. And John George Harrison was also a huge supporter and did a lot with us. And Paul McCartney actually, David Lynch, interviewed him. And he said, nothing ever happened. It just got picked up by the press and nothing and John, at the time, got all caught up in it.

And then after when he realized nothing happened, it was just rumor, then he was very apologetic. But I'll tell you a wonderful story. So I'm on the phone. I mean, I'm on the, we're here in New York, and I'm in you a wonderful story. So I'm on the phone. I mean, I'm on the, we're here in New York and I'm in a lower west side and I get a phone call from a guy and he says, I like to learn to meditate.

And I said, great. And he said, you know, I said, what are you interested in? And he said, well, you know, I just have some stress and I like to feel better. I like to do that. I like great. And he wasn't saying who he was and I just am sensitive to that.

I said, how'd you hear about it? And he said, well, I have some friends who do it. They say, TM is really good. And so we're talking on. And then he said, well, actually, I'll be honest. He said, I grew up, my parents used to both meditate twice a day. And I used to watch them meditate. And I say, and they meditate their whole lives together.

And I said, oh, who are your parents? He said, John and Yoko Lennon. And it and it was Sean Lenin who I then taught to meditate. And I've taught all the McCartney kids to meditate. I meditate with Paul with Paul and his wife Nancy and Ringo does events for us. Nothing ever happened. Briefed aggression. How did you get into the situation where you teach all the videos? Oh, it's so wild.

I have to talk. George Stephanopoulos, Robin Roberts, here at AERA at ABC, both previous podcasts here. Like every celebrity you can think of, you've taught them. David Letterman, how did that happen? How did you have to earn? No idea. No, I didn't teach how it's true. Okay. Okay. So here's the thing. I remember having this, like I'm just this normal kid who just grew up loving sports. I meditate. I'm not your normal, I'm gonna answer the question,

but I'm not your normal meditation teacher. No, you're wearing a suit. No, and the thing is, is I'm a really skeptic person. I'm skeptical, I'm not into new age, I'm not into woo-woo. I love science, I'm not afraid of facing things head on. If people say, oh, I like to find the truth, I don't just go with gossip. And so because of, I remember like 15 years ago

telling somebody once it's gonna sound stupid, I've never met a famous person in my life. You know, I love Willie Mays. I never got to meet him. I love Bobby Cannon. Those are the famous people I liked as a kid. And then I met David Lynch. And somehow as I was teaching,

David said, oh, you know, you should teach this, you know, would you teach this director or Laura Dern was meditating at the time. And then it just sort of started happening. We put on an event in 2009 in radio city to raise money to teach a million kids to meditate for free at and Paul and Ringo came. Or when that happened, then doors started opening. And I feel like on your level, that some people up at that top level that I teach, you need a cardiologist, I got a guy. Oh, you need someone, a Pilates teacher, I got a guy. You need a meditation teacher, I got a guy. Like, you guys don't have the time to sort things out yourself, so I became the go-to guy

for people who wanted to... I'm not on the level of the people you're teaching meditation. Do you have opalist? Yeah, I'm not on George's list. Really? No way. He's a big deal. I don't know. So that's how it happened.

Word of mouth. I don't go after anybody. And there's many other teachers who also in Los Angeles who teach well-known people. And the other thing is, I've maybe taught 50 people. I've taught thousands of inner-city school kids. You just don't know about it. Right. Okay. A few more questions and then I want to get to the book.

What's, this is stuff that I remember, does the extent that I have any memory, because it's not great, from Claire's book. One of the things is about the people wearing the crowns. So there's a current leadership of TM, where's crowns or something like that. What's going on with that? There is just in, when a person learns to meditate

before they learn to meditate, there's this wonderful little ceremony of thanksgiving that's done you probably heard about. So before I teach something to, yeah, before I teach a person to meditate, there is a little two minute ceremony of thanksgiving that I perform as a teacher, that I honor the tradition of teachers that

have come before, that it's a reminder that this ain't my gig. It is cultural. It is not religious. And it really, I think it's wonderful because it's a very modern technique, but you just take a moment and when I've taught doctors, they say it's very much like when they do a Hippocratic oath before they become a doctor, you just tie yourself back. So there, so in that same way, the leadership in a ceremonial way, once a year or every five years or something, just like if you, if you saw the president of a university wearing a, you know, a robe

and one of those strange hats. So in, in a ceremonial for a few minutes, they honor that tradition. But all these guys wear suits and ties and blue jeans and sweatshirts. But the grounds are just part of a like a hat. Just a moment. It's part of a ceremonial thing that sort of links to the past. It's not like they're running around. And those guys, they're doctors and they're business people. And they just take a moment to recognize and I think it's important

I think it's lovely that you honor the teacher. The other thing Claire talked about is the last of not just question I've got. They're all good ones is were there some financial issues with the organization? No Transcendental meditation has been a nonprofit organization for 60 years in the United States and there has never ever ever been any global ordinance. Yes. In the United States, any financial improprieties. In India, where, I don't know if you know India, it's yes, it's like bribes and this and all this sort of stuff. Well, the T.M. organization, Marshy didn't want to play do bribes. He just, he'd do one, he'd want to play the game. So there was some accusations, which turned out to be not true because when you got lawyers and looked at it, but he refused to play the game. And then there was all those accusations. But in every country, it's, that was one of the

things, and I think he was smart. He said, 100% transparency, just absolutely run it the most professional way you can. That isn't to say you don't see sort of unsourced articles and claims but when you look for sources it's not there. Okay, Basta, you've been here for an hour and I will have you haven't talked about your book. But I love this. Are you enjoying this? I am. You would have been gone a while ago.

Strength and stillness is the name of the book, the power of transcendental meditation by Bob Roth. So you can't teach people to do TM unless you're teaching them one-on-one. So what are you doing in this book? Doing several things. I make a very strong point about the dangers and the hazards of stress in trauma. They should not be ignored. People, you can't just buck up. You can't just, you know, mask it with the neck, you know, mask it with some

couple of cups of coffee or 10 cups of coffee or alcohol. You can't just manage it with ambian and, you know, colombin and all these things. These is like a tumor that's there and needs to be addressed. Then I say meditation is looked at as a viable tool, alternative to all those medications. I'm not anti-medication at all. My dad was a doctor. I think medications play a very important role. I think we over-medicate, particularly our kids.

So I look at the three different types of meditation that researches focused attention, open monitoring, and self-transcending. Focus attention being a concentration technique, open monitoring, being some mindfulness earned both, and then self-transcending includes TM. And then I look at the research on those, and then I say, I practice these other two, I am a teacher of transcendental meditation. There's a lot of misunderstandings about, no one really knows what it is. I talk about what transcendence means. I talk about what you do when you learn the technique and I make the point take this seriously, meditation seriously. You can learn things as you can in your wonderful book meditation for the Fijidae skeptic. I bought it. It's great.

I did. I would give me one but I bought it. So I bought it. Pay me. But I say also in your arsenal, also while you're doing this in your toolbox, take time and also learn this and learn it from a teacher. Are you arguing for the primacy of TM or you just think they're all just doing it? No, I'm not, I'm arguing for, don't be closed off. Yeah. Yeah, I'm arguing for, because different meditations have different outcomes.

And so it is vitamin C more primary than vitamin D? No. Is protein more primary than leafy greens? No. So is transcending more primary? No, but it's a missing element and I'm a big advocate of bringing together Tools that work and it's not just as you know Physical exercise or eating well. I train

Olympic athletes who eat the best food and they're the best physical condition and they're so anxious who eat the best food and they're the best physical condition and they're so anxious they can't they're just wrought with with anxiety and I teach them TM and they've made they know and they love it they love it so I I'm just saying so the book is making that argument and I address these things well it costs money well here's why it costs money and if you don't have the money there are ways to get it without money so basically you were answering a lot of the question I was hurling exactly right because it's a bigger it's a bigger If you don't have the money, there are ways to get it without money. So basically, you were answering a lot of the questions that I was hurling at.

Exactly right, because it's a bigger commitment. You're not just reading Dan's book, you're going to actually find a teacher. And I make the argument for a teacher. When you have a child and they want to know learn math, it doesn't hurt to have a tutor. If you, and it doesn't hurt to go to an expert, if you're sick, you don't just go to somebody

on the internet. What should I do? You go to a trained doctor who can diagnose and prescribe. So go to a med-certified TM teacher and learn. And if you don't like it, quit. What if I'm in a rural area? How do I? Well, we have TM centers all over the country and all over the world.

And those, those teachers go periodically to different smaller towns and do courses. So they go to the website. And then you find out and you say, okay, I live in Biloxi, Mississippi near Biloxi, Mississippi. There's a TM center in Biloxi and that teacher often goes and travels to those communities or those people come to to block see.

Is there anything I should have asked you but didn't. More about the foundation. That's my love. Tell me more about it. Because I know you guys are you're in there with kids in the inner city and it's a great picture of you and Russell Brav, David Lynch and Russell Brand in our other area.

Other than San Francisco, full of kids. Can I tell you the story about that with Russell Brand? So Russell Brand, who's a great friend and he's actually helping us now in the UK bring TM to prevention and treatment of opioid addiction, which I and treatment centers. So there's Russell myself and David Lynch and there's the principles there, the superintendents, 700 kids for group meditation, and Russell drops the F word. And the principle says to me, Bob, go over and whisper to him not to say the F word. And I said, Mr. Charles, you really don't want me to do that.

He said, no, no, I really want you to do that. No, no, no, no, go do it. So I, Russell don't say the F word. Well, he must have said 10. So he said, okay, I know what you mean. So the thing is, is my, I have felt my deepest desire from working with Bobby Kennedy that I, I, you think meditation is a tool for social transformation. I think meditation is a tool for social transformation. I think it can, my whole issue even growing up was equal opportunity, equal access. What people do with the opportunities they're doing, but no one idealistically should be

born and not have equal chance at being happy and healthy and successful. Well, there's many things you need. You need good health care. You need all those things. But also the ability to be resilient. The ability to resilience a big one. The ability to reduce your stress so you're not self-medicating yourself. So I always wanted from the beginning to bring this to people who needed it the most at no cost. There should be no obstacle to it, and they should be able to learn it in school or learn it on the job or learn it in a hospital. There should be no obstacle for that. So when I said at the beginning, now 600,000 people, nothing makes me happier than going into the homeless shelter with the money that we've raised because Paul and

Ringo have helped us put on a concert so I can hire three TM teachers often in their 20s or 30s and that's their job. They get $60,000 a year and they work for the David Lynch Foundation and they teach these kids for free in these schools. And it's just very fulfilling because I think the tools for social transformation have to begin with the ability to heal the trauma and stress that all these kids are facing. And my goal is to teach a million Syrian refugees to meditate. If people want to learn more about you, the organization, where can they go, do that? We call this the plug zone, plug away. I want to plug everything you got. 10% in. TM.org.

That's the TM organization. And David Lynch Foundation.org, David Lynch Foundation will talk more about the work we're doing. I think those two are fine. And are you on social media or anything like that? Yeah, I'm, thank you, David. Meditation Bob, but I'm actually gonna do so. I'm gonna give everybody my own personal email. Okay, awesome. And you can just, you can write, and it's going to me. If you have any questions or complaints

or anything we haven't covered, it's Bob at davidlynchfoundation.org. 100% that goes to me. Yep. And I will answer your questions. I'll answer your questions. I find, I'm happy to do it. Because I think, when a person comes to me

to learn to meditate, they come for, and to you, they come with their whole life behind them and they're having their concern, and also families are learning together. They're coming because they're concerned about their teenage kid and then their job and they're worried and they don't want to necessarily take drugs or something medication.

So I take each person and every TM teacher, there's thousands of TM teachers. Every person is a universe and every person deserves full attention and caring. And that's what we do. So if you have a question, email me and if I can't answer it, I'll send it to someone you know. Every person is a universe. I like that a lot. Good place to end it.

Thank you very much. Strength and stillness bob roth thank you dan and i think you have done a lot to take away the whole misconception about meditation in general and you are really helping people a lot in the same we're trying to do the same thing primarily my tool is like russle brand i use a lot. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Okay, that does it for another edition of the 10% happier podcast. If you liked it, please take a minute to subscribe, rate us. Also, if you want to suggest topics, you think we should cover or guests that we should

bring in, hit me up on Twitter at Dan B. Harris. Importantly, I want to thank the people who produced this podcast, Lauren Efron, Josh Tohan, and the rest of the folks here at ABC who helped make this thing possible. We have tons of other podcasts. You can check them out at ABCnewspodcasts.com. I'll talk to you next Wednesday. Hey, hey, prime members. You can listen to 10% happier early and add free on Amazon Music.

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