Ten Percent Happier with Dan Harris - 149: Dzigar Kongtrul Rinpoche, 'Potential of Tsewa Is in Everyone'

Episode Date: August 22, 2018

Dzigar Kongtrul Rinpoche, whose most recent book is "Training in Tenderness: Buddhist Teachings on Tsewa, the Radical Openness of Heart That Can Change the World," believes it's possible for all humans to develop compassion towards each other, but it starts with realizing the motivation behind ones own desires. - Website: http://www.mangalashribhuti.org/VDKR - Book: "Training in Tenderness: Buddhist Teachings on Tsewa, the Radical Openness of Heart That Can Change the World" and others: http://www.mangalashribhuti.org/VDKRbooks See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

It kind of blows my mind to consider the fact that we're up to nearly 600 episodes of this podcast, the 10% happier podcast. That's a lot of conversations. I like to think of it as a great compendium of, and I know this is a bit of a grandiose term, but wisdom. The only downside of having this vast library of audio is that it can be hard to know where to start. So we're launching a new feature here, playlists, just like you put together a playlist of your favorite songs.

Back in the day, we used to call those mix tapes. Just like you do that with music, you can do it with podcasts. So if you're looking for episodes about anxiety, we've got a playlist of all of our anxiety episodes. Or if you're looking for how to sleep better, we've got a playlist of all of our anxiety episodes, or if you're looking for how to sleep better, we've got a playlist for that. We've even put together a playlist of some of my personal favorite episodes. That was a hard list to make. Check out our playlists at 10%.com slash playlist. That's 10% all one word spelled out..com slash playlist singular.

Let us know what you think. We're always open to tweaking how we do things and maybe there's a playlist we haven't thought of. Hit me up on Twitter or submit a comment through the website. Hey y'all, it's your girl, Kiki Palmer. I'm an actress, singer, and entrepreneur. I'm a new podcast, baby, this is Kiki Palmer. I'm asking friends, family, and experts,

the questions that are in my head. Like, it's only fans only bad, where the memes come from. And where's Tom from MySpace? Listen to Baby, this is Kiki Palmer on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcast. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUT OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ I'm Dan Harris. So I'm writing a book about kindness right now which I'm going to do in my way with a lot of expletives and embarrassing personal stories.

And our guest this week fits perfectly into that because he's written a book about kindness not a lot of swearing in his, but he knows a lot more than I do. His name is Zigger control Rinpoche. I don't know if I'm pronouncing that correctly. He'll pronounce it correctly for us. Rinpoche just means he's a respected and high level teacher in the Tibetan tradition. He's also a reincarnate. He's designated as a third reincarnation of a previous Rinpoche, a great llama from generations past, and we get into an interesting conversation about my skepticism about the whole reincarnation

thing. But primarily, we talk about why, and this is what I'm talking about in my book, why it is in your interest to not be a jerk. And what kind of meditation we can do to boost our capacity to not be a jerk. Alright, so Ziggers coming up, but first I want to say something and then I want to take your calls and then we'll get to the guest. I want to say thank you. A couple of weeks ago we mentioned that we're doing a survey of podcast listeners to help us do a better job. And hundreds of you took time to answer the questions. Hundreds and hundreds of you.

And I am really moved by that fact and extremely grateful. And I just want you all to know that we're combing through the results. It's some of it's quite humbling. Humbling in that there, you know, so there were some real criticisms in there, but they were all of it is incredibly useful. We are going to, this is going to be our Bible as we continue to tweak and hopefully grow this show. So I just want to say a really sincere thank you and a lot more to come we're gonna we're gonna be working on this show for a long time and and the results we got from that

survey are gonna be extremely helpful. One of the things we heard in the surveys that people are pretty tired of my caveat that I issue every week before we before I take the phone calls the the voicemails. So I won't issue it this week, I may do it in the future. Let's just get right to call number one. Hi Jan, my name is Cedeme, a PhD student studying applied economics at Harvard and got really into meditation through you, so that's been awesome. I was curious if you could talk about the internal experience that you have while meditating and be more specific in probably the last few months or meditating for the last few months. I've developed this tendency to have sort of before experiences and feeling like the inside of my mind gets really like light and feeling it physically.

Almost as if I'm kind of high or something like that when I meditate and the person having to kind of freak me out, like what the hell is going on, but I've learned to sort of appreciate it. But I'm just wondering if you can have these sort of physiological experiences in your head, in your face, in other parts of your body while you're meditating, you feel you otherwise don't have, and if you could is yes, it's very common. Usually in my understanding and experience among people who are at a significant dosage of meditation, but I don't think there's any reason. I think it can happen to people to do an even low dose meditation, no question about it.

It's very common to have all sorts of interesting experiences. Physical sensations that you've never experienced before, negative or positive, psychological and emotional stuff along the lines with you're describing, but the range is vast. This is what happens when you start looking at the mind and training the mind. It doesn't always happen, you can't count it on it happening. And I would suggest you, you sincerely in Cambridge and you're right near the Cambridge Insight Meditation Center that you go and talk to a really genuinely experienced teacher there about what you're experiencing because I think it would be very interesting to hear from somebody like

that because there's a lot to say that I'm not really qualified to say. In fact, I talked a moment ago about our survey, and one of the things that I think we may do is a consequence of this survey, because there were some very, there were many, many wise suggestions in there, but one of them was that perhaps some of these questions where I'm not qualified to answer, we will get meditation teachers to answer them briefly. But since it's me here right now, just me here right now, I will say that the one thing I've heard, I've had many extreme, extremely pleasant and extremely unpleasant experiences while meditating and the feedback I've

generally gotten from my teachers is, you know, were you mindful? Were you noting not attached to what is inevitably an passing experience, which will arise and pass away. And to not get overly attached to these experiences, overly aversive to the negative ones, because that's the game here, just waking up to whatever is happening right now. So yeah, what you're describing sounds like somebody who's taking meditation really seriously and these experiences are the inevitable consequence.

But I do think you should go talk to somebody with even more experience than I do and I recommend CIMC right there in Cambridge since you said you were at Harvard. All right that's a great question. Let's go to the second one. Hi Dan, Connor from Colorado here. I'd just like to get your opinion on more secular practitioners getting involved with local Buddhist communities or mindfulness clubs or Buddhist temples, just your general overall opinion for more secular, maybe not religious folk that do meditate. Thanks, Dan.

Appreciate your work. Okay. This one I am super qualified to answer because I have done what you're describing. I'm assuming you're a secular guy and you're looking around. I'm assuming here, so that's always dangerous. But I'm assuming you're a secular guy and you want to get more into meditation and the best options appear to be a Buddhist. And my answer is there is nothing to fear.

If you don't want to get swept up in a religion, I don't think you will be. Because in my experience and personal and in my view, Buddhism is now quoting the great Stephen Bachelor here, a writer who I recommend wholeheartedly who has never come on this podcast, although we're working on it. Buddhism is not something to believe in. It's something to do. It's a set of, there are plenty of things you can believe in in Buddhism, including reincarnation, which we're gonna talk about on this episode.

But the Buddha was very specific, which he said, take or leave any of the claims I'm making, test it out for yourself, take what works for you. And so he was a guy skeptics can line up behind. And these Buddhist centers, you know, some of them you may like, some of them you may not. But I am of the view that Buddhism is, and I say this as somebody who is still a validly

secular, I don't believe in anything you can't prove. But Buddhism is one of the most fascinating things I have ever come across. And in the last nine years have spent pretty much all of my spare time reading, studying, and practicing Buddhism. And there's so much there. And there's so much there So yeah, I mean when I go into some Buddhist Buddhist contexts The the bowing and the chanting and the robes is it a little odd for me? Yeah, but is it anybody you know forcing me to embrace grand metaphysical theories and that I don't Believe in no so yeah

You may experience some discomfort, but that's just another thing to be mindful of. How's it showing up for you? Well, what kind of thoughts, how's it showing up in your body? What kind of thoughts is it creating? What kind of emotions? That's interesting to tune in and investigate.

So I wholeheartedly encourage you to experiment. It's okay if you don't like what you find in some places, but I bet you will in others. And yeah, leave us another voicemail in a couple of months. And I want to hear more about your paragrenations within the world of Buddhism, but a wholehearted thumbs up there. All right. So Ziggur control Rinpoche again, I hope I'm pronouncing that right. He has the title of Tulku, which means he's a reincarnated Tibetan Lama. He's written many, many books, including it's up to you, the practice of self-reflection on the Buddhist path, light coming through, natural vitality, uncommon happiness. Yes, heart advice. He's written lots of books, the way of tenderness, I believe, is another book, and a lot of them are about compassion and kindness. And he has a way of talking about it that,

again, makes it less uigui and more practical and more sort of, you might not like this term, but I like it sort of self-interested. What's in it for you to do this? And there's a lot in it for you to do this. And so let me shut up and have him explain. Here we go. Thank you for coming in. Thank you, Dan, for having us here.

Really appreciate it. So I was reading a little bit about your biography very interesting Your first teacher was your mom. Yes, my first teacher was my mom. She was a practitioner and she did a many years of retreat before she married to my father So you know as I was growing up she's always practicing so that kind of a really gave me a huge inspiration and also she taught me a lot of you know basic stuff. I'm sorry I had to interrupt I was just going to say I was into the impression that and I'm not an expert in Tibetan culture but I thought it was reasonably the meditation world within the Tibetan culture was reasonably patriarchal.

So is it common for women to have that amount of experience? My mother is from actually a lot of the householders. They do receive teachings and then they, of course, while they're working in the household, they also practice in the breaks. So I think there is a tradition. But in generally speaking, I think it is true. There is a lot more male practitioners than a female practitioners.

But my mother was sort of very unique in a sense that she really wanted practice. If she didn't get a chance to practice, she was kind of really not going to be happy, so to speak. So she really asked parents to put her into retreat. So then they did and then she did 13 years of retreat. 13 years? Yeah. It's starting at what age? I think she was around 13 or 14, something like that. And it was not in the mountains or anything. It's in the back of a family house and they built a retreat cabin and then the family supported two of the daughters. She did a retreat with her sister, younger sister.

And so they were in retreat, yeah, in the back of the family house for closed retreat, strict retreat for 13 years. So when you say closed retreat strict retreat You mean they it's not like they were getting education during that time They were actually meditating all day every yes I think they were they were getting some teachings and then they were just following the routine of a we have a four sessions like in a day So more early morning sessions and morning sessions and afternoon sessions and evening sessions.

So they were really practicing and meditating. Wow. And you say she was a householder, meaning she was not a nun. She was not a dad. She wasn't a nun. She was an old saint. And she wanted to be. But then I think my family was kind of a big family, so they wanted her to sort of first do this retreat and then see. Then, after towards the end of the hard retreat, then my father came alone and then proposed her, then her family wanted her to marry my father. So then she got married off. And was your father a householder as well? He was a teacher, he was a teacher and he was a householder teacher in that region. A meditation teacher? Yeah, meditation teacher and he was one of the

sort of we call it rumbuchis in that area who had a sort of had a monastery which also has monks as well as also lay practitioners mixed together. So Rinpoche is a term for advanced spiritual slash meditation teacher in the Tibetan world? Yeah, Rinpoche is generally a title for Rinconate Lamas, and he was one of the reincarnate Lamas of that region. And so you started meditating when you were how old? I started to meditate. My mother put me into a retreat when I was around ten. Ten years old? Ten years old?

Is this separated from your family at that point? No, actually my brother was doing a retreat. Again, a similar situation, very close to my family home, in the back of my family home. And I was around 10 and she said, oh this is a good time for you to really get connected with the Dharma, so you should go into retreat. So she put me into retreat, she actually asked me to do just some mantras, that's all. I wasn't taught to meditate or anything like that, but just put into retreat. Then I came out of that retreat about three months, and I was fantasizing about coming out and doing a lot of different things and playing,

and as any child would, then when I came out, and I did all of the things that I fantasized when I was inside, that retreat while I was chanting or during the recitations. And then it was some kind of a feeling of emptiness or there was some kind of feeling of void of doing all of those things. So then that's the beginning of my really interest to kind of pursue the meditation,

and then I got some teachings, and then I went into retreat myself. So that was maybe when I was 13 or something like that. So it sounds like at the age of 10 you had one of the key insights of Buddhism which is suffering. Yes. The things you thought you wanted. Yes. didn't do it for you. Yes, exactly. That was really a kind of a first experience of, oh yeah, all of this playing with my friends and hanging out and wandering around, all of those things that I fantasized while I was in the retreat. And I really went to do it. there was a sense of feeling like, oh, this really didn't, this really doesn't have that so much of the kind of joy as I had when I was alone in the room,

doing the practice. And so it was just all made up in my mind. And while I was in the room, there was some kind of a sense of grace, a sense of peace, even though I was a little bit anxious and time saw I was kind of getting a little bit bored. But generally there was a sense of peace and grace. So I really wanted that more. And I knew I wasn't taught to practice or do any kind of meditation. So if I learned the meditation or practice, it would be even better.

So then I actually pursued it with receiving some more teachings. And then when I first went into retreat, it was really a great feeling of, you know, this is what I wanted to do. This is what I wanted to do, all the rest of my life, kind of a feeling. Of course, I didn't stay there all the time, but there was a sense of real connection. But that's, so that second retreat, which started,

I believe you said at age 13. So we are on age 13. How long were you on retreat for? That time then I was in retreat for about three months or maybe close to four months. And I can see from my window, looking up at the mountains, there are some small villages up in the mountains from my window.

I was even wanting to go further into the mountains and meditate up in the mountains. There was a sense of real feeling of deep joy to pursue this as a sort of lifelong path and wanting to kind of to really make it this work for myself. And I'm glad that I found those inspirations then. And then since then I've been meditating often, but then seriously from the age of, I think, maybe 20s. So in your 20s, it was in your 20s that you started meditating seriously? Yes, seriously. Yes, when I actually, I was a monk for those early years

for about 10, maybe 11 years. And then I got disrobed and then I got married. And you know, when I first disrobed, there was kind of a very exciting time, and there was a lot of kind of possibilities and a lot of things to explore. And that's why I disrobed and now went into the kind of a world. But then after a while, again, similarly, there was kind of a void, a big life-changing, there was kind of a hit of a depression, and a deep feeling of lost. So then from there, I kind of seriously sort of pursued meditation practice. I went up into a mountain and I stayed up there for about a year and pursuing kind of a meditation.

As your wife feel about that? No, that time actually we haven't met. This is just right before I met. I see. After disrobing but before you met your wife. Before I met my wife. So then from there, then of course, we got married, and then we had a child, then we moved here, then I was asked to teach at Naropa Institute

or Naropa University in the graduate programs. So then I was teaching. So then I was teaching, so then I, you know, pursued it seriously, you know, I just as I was responsible to teach to others. You described your father as Rinpoche, a reincarnation. You reincarnation, yes. And you have the title as well? Yes, I was also recognized at the age of I think 10,

I was recognized as an incarnate of a friend of my father's who actually passed away just right before he left Tibet. And so then I was in throne into my father's monastery in India. into my father's monastery in India. And then I grew up there. And yeah, so since then I have this title of Tukus. Tukus. T-U-L-K-U-Tukus, which is the title of another word for reincarnated Islam. Yeah, Tukus generally means reincarnated Lamas.as and the remuch him means just an honorific name for a two kuz just meaning precious one or something like that. So how do you talk about reincarnation to a skeptical western person like me? Because I consider myself to be a Buddhist, but I've seen no evidence for reincarnation. So how am I supposed to grapple with this? Yeah, I think, well, there's no not found an evidence of reincarnation, but there's also not found no evidence of reincarnation as well too.

There's no evidence against it. No evidence against it. So it's kind of a belief of what you take on as a mind. If you take on mind as an unconsciousness, that is like momentary. It is a stream of momentarily rising and dissolving. That continue of the moments. To the end, then when the body goes into the distractions, the separation between the body and the mind happens, but the mind continues as into the kind of intermediate state.

So there's no reason for continuation of the moment after the last moment of this life and the next one to arise. So, even as a body in the atomic level, the continuations of the atom continues. It just evaporates and becomes a non-existent. It continues. So, it's like that the stream of consciousness also continues. And then when it continues into the kind of an intermediate state, it is not going to have this body, but it's going to have something similar to this body, like what we have in the dream.

You know, we have something similar to this body in the dream that the consciousness is attached to or consciousness perceives and then carries on. Something like that in the Barthol, the intimate state you continue. For maximum up to 49 days, in the 49 days, then whatever the sort of like karma or whatever the next birth is to be, then you have a sort of vision of that. There are a lot of beings who are searching for birth. So then you take a birth. In the birth, they kind of are the birth of the womb, and then there's the birth from the eggs, then there's the moisture birth,

and then there's the birth of spontaneously popping up into there's the Bertha of Spontaneously popping up into a realm. So there's a different types of birds, so the life then in that way circles, that's kind of the belief. But of course, in order for anyone to really truly take this seriously and believe, there has to be some kind of an faith in the evidence, but there has to be some kind of an faith in the evidence, but there has to be some kind of connection and

faith in the spiritual path and the Dharma, as well as also to see this as a long term and benefit of the long term, not just immediately what it does for you, but something that it will help you in the long run to evolve yourself, and evolve your consciousness into a higher state, and higher and much more of an enlightened state. But in the view of the Tibetan tradition, would I be considered a bad Buddhist with insufficient faith? I don't think there is a bad Buddhist. I think it's just like, you know, whether it is through the intellect that you get to have a sort of faith, or whether over the time your connection grows into the spiritual path that you are then just have the faith, I think people come different ways and it's not really like you should have. And you must have or anything like that, it's just more like where you are and see what actually

to have the faith in the rebirth and kind of like a bigger vision of oneself evolving over the time. How does that support you and your spiritual path? And how does that support you all, all sort of psychological and emotional well-being, to have some kind of hope for the future, rather than just everything extinct, being extinct or finished or everything sort of going to a blank here. So in my view, in just my personal experience as well as people who, you know, I've talked to, they seem like a, just with a positive kind of like a hope.

There's a much less fear and much less attachments to this. So however we believe, there isn't our next life or life after this. We're going to be attached to this body and it seems like the attachment to this body or this life becomes a little bit more sort of solidified. There's nothing to hope for in the future or nothing to kind of like vision, to go after this life. So with the rebirth, with the idea of the rebirth, there is a sense of continuation, something to look forward and something to kind of, you know, what you do here, to leap afloat in the next life. And then particularly with the sort of consciousness, like if you explore the consciousness as

and as you have meditated, you would know this. There comes a time where actually, you know, you are in a kind of a state where actually, you're not fabricating, but you are present. And then there's really our wakefulness, you know. And that present and the wakefulness has no sort of like a rising or dwellings or ceasing. So that, as in, you know, is going to be very difficult to be annihilated or destroyed or what is there to be even in the first

place destroyed, you know, like with the physical thing, there's something to be destroyed, but with that there's nothing to be destroyed. So you were talking now about one of the great mysteries, my view, kind of the great mystery of consciousness. Yes. How are the lights on in here in my head, but not even in my, we don't even know if the consciousness is in the head, it could be in your knee. So, and in meditation for low-level meditators such as myself, even people like me, you can get a sense of who is the one knowing all of this, who's feeling the breath, who's hearing sounds and all of this stuff. And so you're saying that that consciousness, which is this mysterious way, you can't imagine it being destroyed.

That there's a two types of consciousness that rises and falls, and that is aware of objects. And then there's a consciousness that is not really necessarily aware of an object, and that also doesn't rise and fall, and it's all omniscient and present, and it's there, unfabricated. And you feel that, you experience that, and in there there's no really duality, like a me or them or I or he or she. And that is the source of all other consciousness that evolves, you know. Without that, there's no really any other consciousness of, like a thought process or the emotions or the eye consciousness or the sensory consciousness.

Any of the consciousness could not have a base to arise, but because of that, a promoted consciousness is being there, then all the other consciousness gets sort of a... has the base to rise and fall, you know. So, of course, other consciousness are going to be impermanence, and they are going to be shaped in... condition by the conditions, like organs and objects. But the promoted consciousness is not shaped shaped in primordial consciousness. So we may have temporary hearing, temporary seeing, temporary tasting. Those are all the temporary

horizons of consciousness, but they all play out against what you're calling primordial consciousness, which is this mysterious knowing that's happening in the background. Exactly. And that, since that's there, then since that sort of like a, you know, unchangingly continuous, so then all of the other consciousness and the life-based consciousness, you know, is going to be also there with these sort of different conditions. Of course, it's not going to be the same conditions as here. Like in the dreams, we don't have the same conditions as what we have in the awakened, but there is a condition to see and hear things like that. So there is going to be that kind of continuations of life and consciousness

that actually experiences the life in the world. Celebrity feuds are high stakes. You never know if you're just going to end up on page 6 or Du Moir or in court. I'm Matt Bellesai. And I'm Sydney Battle, and we're the host of Wonder E's new podcast, Dis and Tell, where each episode we unpack a different iconic celebrity feud. From the build up, why it happened, and the repercussions. What does our obsession with these feuds say about us? The first season is packed with some pretty

messy pop culture drama, but none is drawn out in personal as Britney and Jamie Lynn Spears. When Britney's fans form the free Britney movement dedicated to fraying her from the infamous conservatorship, Jamie Lynn's lack of public support. It angered some fans. A lot of them. It's a story of two young women who had their choices taken away from them by their controlling parents, but took their anger out on each other. And it's about a movement to save a superstar, which set its sights upon anyone who failed to fight for Brittany. Follow disenthal wherever you get your podcast. You can listen ad-free on Amazon Music or the Wondery app. Let me ask you one last obnoxious question about reincarnation before we get back to your

story. Do you think it's convenient that your dad's buddy passes away and it turns out that his son is the guy who is the reincarnate? Well I think if there's some advantage that I could actually have, then it most probably could be, you know, perceived that way. Since being a reincarnate, there's a lot of a shoulder reading of responsibilities and a work, and also a lot of, you know, sense có든 of duty to serve. I think it may be perhaps, you know, even if it is, you know, it is to sort of really help the community

and it's to help the culture and it's to help the continuation of the Dharma in the world. So I take it with the sort of sense of honor and not I feel like Amarin Kurnit, you know, and most probably feels that way. But there's a sense of honor that we feel being kind of entrusted this responsibility with the name. Because it takes on us. I was indicating that, you know, I was in my role as a skeptical journalist. I was indicating that I was in my role as a skeptical journalist. I was Badgering you about whether this was some sort of spiritual nepotism, but you're basically saying that This is actually an important ceremonial role in the community and asking somebody to take on the role of a Tilku Yeah, is is

Responsibility. Yeah, look at this way like a wheel as a as a Tibetan we lost our country, you know, and you Tibetan, we lost our country. We had to exile. We landed in India with really nothing in 1959 and in the late 60s. We were just really in a very, very bad condition. Now the Tibetan community in India is thriving and it's doing well, of course, still we have a lot of issues and a lot of things to be done to make progress in the society, in the community, in the culture and the tradition. But we have been able to preserve the culture and the religion and the Dharma and the path

and the practice of meditation. So it's also all of the kind of language and so on and so forth. It has to be done by somebody. It has to be done in a system. One of the ways to do that was the kind of interesting, recognizing tukus and interesting responsibilities to tukus to kind of interesting, recognized in Tukus and interesting responsibilities to Tukus, to kind of like do that. And they of course, good Tukus and they are bad Tukus. But most of the Tukus really have tried their best, you know, of course we are all human beings,

we have failures. But most of the Tukus have done. And because of the works of the not just only Tukus, but the Tibetans and theans, in this way, carrying forward into the kind of like a new world, so to speak, I think we have really managed to sort of like, really not completely lost our tradition and culture and the Dharma and the way of life, and so is also the kind of a whole of our sort of like a belief systems, you know. So I think in that way there is some real, a great value. Well, you've really gone far afield with the teachings and you've taken it far and wide. So tell me about why you came to the United States and what a big change because you were in northern India?

Yes, I was in Darmsala. Near by Darmsala, a place called Be beer, where there's a Tibetan refugee community and I was born and grew up there. So that's where I was very close, about two hours from the arm salad. Then I came to America because I got married to my wife and then we had a son. And then I had to make a living. And she was from here. So she was American.

She's American, yeah. So then her parents were living in Los Angeles. So they invited us to come and stay with them. So we came and stayed with them. And then, of course, they wanted to move to Sunderfein. And then we had to also move somewhere. So that time, I also offered a job in Rupa to teach Buddhism. And then I moved to Boulder.

And then some of my initial first students came and asked to be a student. And then we formed a small Sangha and then we started from there very fresh and just organically it wasn't like a plan it was just through the kind of like events of life that brought me here made me into sort of who I am. So there are a million other questions that I can ask about your life and we'll get back to it. But let's talk a little bit about it.

You've written a number of books and you've got a new one. The paperback is, I think by the time we record this, probably, just by the time we release this, the paperback will be newly released. It's called Training and Tenderness. Training and Tenderness. Yes. Buddhist teachings on, so how do I pronounce that? Saywa.

Saywa, the radical openness of heart that can change the world. Let's talk this through. So, what do you mean when you say tenderness? Tenderness. Like, for example, I was just thinking last night how to sort of communicate this. Recently, I was in India and in Varanasi I was in the Ganges. And then in the evening there's lots of people, like thousands of people, come to sort of witnesses, sort of ceremony that they do every evening.

So I was coming back, thousands of people are coming back. And then I was sitting next to a shop. And then there's a little infant baby, just a size of like a melon, a size of melon, maybe a five pound on the ground, while all these people are leaving. And when everybody sees that, there's a heart kind of leaping out. Everybody stops and everybody feels this sort of like tenderness. Why? Because we all have this, tenderness. When we see another life, or another life which seems so vulnerable

and which needs the conditions of happiness and which lacks the conditions of happiness, which lacks the sort of like conditions of the happiness, and which seems like a, in such a kind of like a dry-ass, situation, and a painful situation. You know? Of course, the conceptual mind is a wanting, but they're kind of a hot leaping out from your chest and then feeling something at that moment.

That is the cewa, you know, and we all have that. Of course we can shut it down and we can sort of like, you know, ignore it and do a lot with it, but I think we all have that. And this kind of like a feeling of just, with all living beings, or particularly towards, you know, other human beings, if we can sort of, instead of like, contracting our heart, if we can keep our heart open, and then let that sort of a tender feeling, you know, warm, tender feeling arise, you know, on the basis of acknowledging that they are living beings just as myself, and they are going through the same things as hopes for the happiness and joy and conditions of the happiness to be plant-a-fold,

or whatever it's needed to be in their lives. Just as I'm kind of like a open-dad, and I'm wishing that. I have that need, you know. And then, sort of, really making the wish, not exclusively for yourself, but wish for all of the humanity to sort of, you know, get that happiness and get that kind of a joy and a condition, you know. That, sort of like, makes your heart open and keeps your heart kind of like a warm-and. And then also it starts to make a connection with others and then others start to have a response to that, and then there is a sense of real kind of a bond that develops. So that's Elo in essence.

Do you not think there are people who are psychopaths or sociopaths or borderline personalities who are actually incapable of Tsewa, or even people who are the victims of external circumstances that harden them so much, you know, of childhood abuse or, I don't know, that put them in a situation where they're, say, what is hard to access if not infinite, testimony small? I think, you know, definitely, they are social paths and they are, you know, people who are disturbed and people who have really hardened, you know, but, you know, Seva is not based on object, just only towards others. ๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑๑� tenderness to care for your own. So, if there is an attenderness for yourself and care for yourself,

then we are talking about, we are talking about not whether somebody has the potential of Zerwa or not. We are talking about the conditions. Conditions being sort of in those people, they are lacking to express that seva towards others. Now if they get to see the meaning and the reasons and the value and a sense of how this can actually help them to increase to express the seva towards not just for themselves, but to others, and expressing the seva towards others, especially to whom they are related, whom they are close, who are in their environment, how it's a win-win situation, then I think, you

know, that sort of wisdom can guide them to increase the Zewa and open the heart. So I really feel like a potential of the Zewa is in everyone. But given that we live in a world where there are many people who have trouble accessing their innate capacity for kindness, generosity, tenderness, whatever word you want to use. Does that put those of us who are interested in developing our capacities in this area at some risk? In other words, I hear this a lot. People say to me, the more, I'm actually working on a book about kindness right now, and the rap on the common critique of kindness is, well, if I, the more kind I get, the more I'm going to get pushed around by jerks.

No, it's actually not about, you know, it's not about feeling obliged to feel at Seva and feeling obliged to sort of be kind, because of the Seva. Also go out of your ramen, out of your boundaries to, you know, jeopardize yourself. You know, it has to accompany with the intelligence and the critical thinking as well as how this really is going to sort of play out and how this is going to sort of like be in helpful to oneself and others and how, you know, doing something just based on kind of this being good, and therefore it should be sort of unlimited. And therefore you should sort of go all the way to kind of force yourself. That's a, you know, a long, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, path, there has to be a gradual of, company, your opening of heart and that Zewa increasing with your intelligence and with your sort of critical thinking and with the sense of knowing what works and what doesn't work.

So it has to be married with the intelligence, the emotional, the opening of heart, the emotion of flowing of their emotional of kindness, being felt and intended to feel more for others, has to also be guided with their wisdom. So the marriage of critical intelligence with the emotions together, then I don't see. Even when you cannot do something, and when you see doing something that will turn out being not helpful, there has to be also a sense of a kind of a not turning against it,

but sort of like knowing one's own limit and stopping it needs to be stopped and also not expressing oneself with the kindness that is going to turn into a sava and have a bad comeback. So there's an expression I believe this expression exists in the Tibetan tradition of idiot compassion. Idiot compassion. Yeah, you know, turning to idiot compassion. You know, if one doesn't use one sort of critical intelligence alone with the sort of intelligence of the emotions. So how do we go about developing this? So you make the case that What do we go about developing this? So you make the case that this tenderness is innate in all of us and that the smart ones

will see, or the wise people will see, actually, it's the source of happiness that you can, if you develop, and the Dalai Lama talks about this too, he calls it, talks about wise selfishness. The wise selfish person realizes that compassion, kindness, generosity, these are actually what makes a good life. And you will develop this concern for others because it were down to your benefit moment to moment where life has lived. So how do we how do we develop this capacity in your view? Well, I think first of all, it's a source of happiness, but it is a state of happiness in itself. That is also very important to know. So, first of all, I think there has to be an interest.

There has to be an intention to want to have a Zerva. There has to be with anything, some intention, and there has to be some interest so that it's not like a force onto you or anything like that. Now, generally speaking, I think the sense of if anyone to you is a warm, open, and non-threatening, but really there to connect with you, we all appreciate that. So what you appreciate from others, you have to know that others appreciate that. So with that base, then you want to have some kind of an interest or some kind of a connection to develop yourself in that way.

So then the way to do it is really, basically basically coming in touch with your own mind, you know, kind of observing where your state of mind is. And then acknowledging that there's a lot of aspirations in your mind, you know, making a connection with your mind, taking the time to realize that there's a lot of aspirations in your mind, and that there's a lot of hopes in your mind, and there's a lot of kind of a sense of a drive to meet the conditions and have the conditions to fulfill this kind of aspirations or this kind of hopes in your mind, getting in touch with all of those things about yourself first is the foremost important, you know, coming to

know yourself rather than sort of like automatically working and just all this sort of like in sort of Russia and always focus outwardly and kind of like going, going, going, there has to be a turning mind inwardly to observe one's state. So when you see that and then there's also a lot of fears and there's a lot of anxieties and there's a lot of sense of kind of vulnerabilities inside of you. So then once you get in touch with that, then knowing, you know, look of a vulnerability inside of you. So then once you get in touch with that, then knowing, you know, look at anyone in this world, you know, who doesn't have that?

Everyone has that, just like you. Outside, we may look different, we may act different, we may iron different places, and we may have seemingly a different condition. But inside, everyone is identical, you know, and to be able to see that in a real way, that there is no really a difference between oneself and others, all this difference is just the sad differences. In essence, there is no difference, you know, as who we are, as a living being, and getting

to, when you get to that place with some kind of conviction, then it's easier to develop that tenderness towards others, openness towards others, warm feeling towards others, as you have that. And there's nothing you lose. You actually, including others, makes you a civil grower, and the happiness grower, and so it's also a source of happiness grew. In there, when you realize, if you actually continuously hold onto the Self,

and just the aspiration of the Self, and the hopes of the Self, and the vulnerability of the Self, and trying to put yourself in a box, do you see how it's painful? It actually creates some kind of like a mooring side. The black hole of self-obsession. Black hole of self-obsession. So in that way, then, you know, trying to kind of increase that

there are for all living beings. And then, as an operator, sustain yourself in that state of the there are the openness and then the way to connect with them is then making you know aspirations on behalf of others. You don't know all the aspirations of others, but it is an aspiration of happiness and joy and conditions of happiness and joy to be increased in their life. So making a prayer in that direction sort of sustains you in that. And then doing that consciously so that you are sort you are in touch with yourself, in your own internal life,

and then acknowledging, and then making that internal ground for one's connection with others, and increasing the openness, and the warm feelings, and warm thoughts, and prayers being offered on behalf of others, kind of like, you know, make sure in that five, ten minutes of a time,

buoyance, you know, from a, makes you come out of your own sub, you know, locked in sub-absorption, a lot of the times and anxiety, and then it makes your buoyance. You're talking about a five, ten minute practice, a formal meditation practice. Yes, formal meditation. We're just getting in touch with yourself and kind of inner formal meditation practice.

You know, that would be, I think, a very suggestible. You use the term prayer. Prayer is like, you know, may all sentient beings be happy and have the cause and conditions of happiness, something like that, being sort of like a chanted, you know, in your head, over and over, and then doing that sort of like sustains you in that open state of mind rather than sort of drift away back into the sense. So, five to ten minutes, you can put yourself in a reasonably quiet space or put some

headphones on and actually say to yourself the words may all sentient beings have the what was the happiness and the cause and conditions of happiness may all sentient beings or may all living beings have you know happiness and the cause and conditions of happiness you know and just repeating that to yourself actually you you're building the muscle of say what tenderness compassion that's right friendliness there are lots of words for this it's interesting do you know building the muscle of, say, a tenderness, compassion, that's right. Friendliness, there are lots of words for this. It's interesting. Do you know, I feel like there are...

But the first thing I think, I think what I wanted to say is getting in touch with yourself, where you are, what your internal life is, and what's going on with your own self rather than sort of being in this automatic mode and going, going, going, going, trying to achieve, achieve, achieve. But what you are trying to achieve, why you are trying self rather than being in this automatic mode and going, going, going, going, trying to achieve, achieve, but what you are trying to achieve, why you are trying to achieve, what is the kind of emotions behind, what is the kind of reasons behind, what are you feeling, what are your take-ons not being kind of an example, it's just sort of like, you know, just being driven, you know, is a really a way to kind of, first that has to be kind of a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I going, where am I aspire? Why do I aspire that? What do I feel if I'm so fixed on something?

Why am I fixated on this? This kind of question is asking to yourself and then not having an immediate answer, smart answer, but just really generally discovering where you are and what your intelligence tells you. I always feel like if you follow this kind of self inquiry to its logical extent, if you ask yourself, what do I really want? The initial answers may be very quite worldly, if I was doing it for myself, I want my company to succeed, I want to get as many promotions as I possibly can get at ABC News, I want

my books to sell a lot. Okay, but what does that really mean at the level of the mind? Yes, that's right. And so you ultimately get down to just positive mental states. Yeah, that's what we want. That's right. And if you get the positive mental state from sort of really just kind of like opening up your heart and feeling that they were in a connection towards the humanity

and then making a sort of aspirations on behalf of the humanity, then all of those could be bypassed. I mean, though they have some values and they can actually offer a lot to you, but you don't feel so desperate for the worldly things. Just like when you were 10 years old stuck on that meditation retreat and you wanted to be playing with your buddies, and you got out there and you started doing, you realized, okay, it's not as good as I thought it was gonna be. There are roots that frustratingly for somebody

who's as sarcastic and skeptical and Western as I am, often they're described with words that can be a little triggering for anti-centimentalists, such as myself. So the roots to happiness that actually are a little bit more sustainable and more successful, usually often are described with words like tenderness, kindness, generosity words that somebody who grows up in this culture,

we hear them in after school specials and lectures from our parents. And especially if you are householder, if you have family and you have, you know, opsprings, you know, you're doing a lot of this, you know, just not for yourself, if you know, you ask people, you're doing this for your family, you know, you're doing this for the, you know, happiness of the family and for the people who you love, you know. But there's other ways to sort of love them, other ways to care for them, other ways to sort of connect with them, other ways to contribute to their life and happiness that you could share in the moment, rather than sort of ignoring the moment,

ignoring the situation, ignoring the kind of possibility within your range, and then trying to fix later on something else outside. That is really the downfall of the modernizations. I have the sense that just as some of us are innately better at basketball, some of us are innately better at kindness and compassion. So for example, I have a three-year-old. He's got he has this amazing nanny who everybody tells us all the time. But people in our apartment building will stop us in the elevator. Just when it's my wife and I alone, that people will say, you know, I watch your nanny sometimes. She's so great.

She just loves your kids so much. And the other children in my son's class run to sit in his nanny's lap. And I asked her once, why do they do that? She said, well, they know where their love is. And I look at her and I think she says, she's an amazing human. No other kids aren't rushing to sit in my lap. I'm not saying I'm, you know, pole pot or the mass murder or something like that, but I mean, I don't ooze the kind of compassion and caring and kindness that she does. Did you agree that there are, you know, I'm seriously interested in developing my capacity for it, say, well, but don't you think we come, we all approach this endeavor at different levels? I think there's a lot of conditions that we actually born with, you know, and that shapes us.

And particularly how we grew up and what kind of a family we grew up, how much of a warmth and openness and kind of tenderness there is, you know, it sort of like, you know, gives us a model how to be. And in that way, I think we may be come out seemingly different. But I think if somebody is interested, somebody who's initially without the interest and without that training or without the kind of really kind of sitting with one's own kind of a mind it could be very angry and very short tempered and very kind of like a fast reactor to sort of like a what we call repel, anybody who comes close.

But slowly, slowly in training in the mind, in training in this kind of like an openness and tenderness and kind of being there rather than sort than doing something, being there as an unknown threat, no harm, being there, open. And then whatever ways that you could actually in a way be and help, being sort of available or just willing to stretch yourself, that I think can really be developed. That can be developed and that changes your relationship. A relationship is not permanent at all in that way.

And so I think somebody can really, from not like that, get there, because there is that sort of interest and there is that sort of, because there is that interest, and there is that intention, and there is that progress simply transforming yourself inside. Of course, one might retract with some fears, some anxieties, and some times feeling of maybe perhaps distrust of oneself or what one is doing. But then over the time as you also work with them and get through them,

then I think you could really have a change of your relations with the world and others. I really do believe. I mean, to what to what extent but to some extent that's for sure Well, I'm glad you talked about You talked about the potential we all have even if we're embarked in this training to regress Yeah, there are we should I should just say for the clarification of listeners There are many many training techniques within the buddhism Within the various schools of Buddhism, and also many of these techniques have also been secularizing and can be taught

to anybody for training, for training compassion. And you're from the Tibetan school. There are many techniques aside from just repeating the phrase that we uttered before, but may all sentient beings, happiness and the source of happiness. There are lots of ways to train and compassion, and I'm from the Teravada School. We have our own ways of doing it, and again, there are secular ways to do it as well. That being said, I wonder how convinced you are that it really works, because, for example, I look at what's happening in Burma right now. Now, again, these are Buddhist monks, or not from your part of Buddhism,

but there are Buddhist monks, Teravada Buddhist monks, and so not Tibetan Buddhist monks, in Burma, who are involved in what is, by many descriptions, a genocide of Muslims in Burma, now known as Myanmar. So I look at that and I'm saying, these are Buddhist monks, these are people who I guess have done some meditation, some training. Where's there, say, well right now? Well, I think, you know, and mind having the sort of a quality of being reflective. Now, if you actually get in touch with your own mind and get in touch with your own feelings and get in touch with your own mind and get in touch with your own feelings and get in touch with your own aspirations, get in touch with your own kind of happiness and what sort of like, make sure happiness, happy and what sort of contributes your life to sort of be happier and have a sort of more kind of a well-being from inside, you know, it's going to be,

you know, not contracting your heart, not within an anger, not within a grudge, not within essence of really kind of wanting to kind of eliminate what is obstacles, so to speak, outside for you. It is going to be with the more open heart, more tender feelings and kind thoughts and compassionate thoughts, More sense of like a really willing to kind of like extend yourself in your limit to others. That's just given fact, right? Given fact. And the mind coming to realizations of those, you know, ultimately have to transform you, you know. Not because you're outwardly being a bodhisattva, or you're outwardly looking like you are a meditator, or outwardly you are sort of, you know, in kind of a position to, you know, teach or anything like that. It has to be that mind coming to sort of a self-realizations, you know.

And in this way, then I really do feel, you know, I mean, we all get passionate and we all get sort of like a caught up in our own beliefs, and we all get into our own kind of sort of like a supportactiveness and thinking that what we are doing is sort of what we are doing it for the reasons we are doing and those reasons of valid. So what's happening in the in the in the Burma, in the Māyāma, right now. It's totally against Buddhism, you know, in that way.

But most probably, you know, in this way, I think, you know, they're doing it and I think what they're doing is not really sort of reflection of the inside meditation. It's not a reflection of progressive teachings of the Buddhas, to know yourself and know your better qualities. What is this source of genuine happiness or enlightenment? This is something bizarre thing. So what about you? You're you're married marriages Can be can be tricky. Yeah, you say that again very challenging. Yes, they can be challenging and you have a son He's how old you know he's a 30. Okay, so he's not in diapers. I hope not So but but you've been through the diaper stage, you've been through

Adolescence. So, did you have moments where your capacity for it say, well, was put to the test? Always. I mean, you had to say, capacity to the capacity of the sale, I put to the test is every day challenge. It's not like, you achieve a state and then you stay there and it doesn't get, you know, at all shaking. But it's your sort of like emphasis. It's what really is meaningful to you. What is important to you. What sort of like is something that you could hold on to, kind of like, in the kind of good times and bad times, you know, in the both times, you know. And even you are put into a test and challenge and sometimes, you know, you just say, we are

all humans and just as we all have our own self and the self-protection and then also, sort of, we have a tendency to sort of project threat and then we have a tendency to project threat, and then we have aggression towards that, and then we get all worked up in the confusion, and then we lose our balance. That happens a lot, but there's a way to come back to the way you want to be, and then working through those emotions,

and even though some of those things have become sort of like a little bit out of a hand and sort of have created a little bit of chaos in your life, you know, there's also, you know, like regrets, remorse. And then, you know, feeling kind of apologetic and then confessing, all of this is a part of an increase, increasing of the seva and you know, it is sort of like, you know, to sort of help the kind of not to have that kind of somehow become not important to you. You've done a great job with this interview. Is there anything that I should have asked you that I didn't ask you? No, you asked a wonderful question. Thank you so much for all the discussions that I hope that the server, you know, I really my hope in the intention and creation and process that it sort of really

warms up all the household in the United States as well as also in the World Hand, everywhere, you know, in the way it reaches, so that there's a real much more puffable of happiness and joy in hands without having to go into the material world within some kind of improvement needs to be there, but what is already available in their lives. I want to give you a chance before we go to tell people if they want to learn more about you work, how can they find that information? I think my name is the Gakun Krul Rumbu Che and we have an organization that is named

after my teacher, Mangala Shri Bhutti. And I think that's their website. Do you know the website of the... The booths of your site, but I don't know how to kind of tell you the website. We'll put it in the show notes, folks. And I also want to point out that you've written a bunch of books. So your newest book is Training and Tenderness. But you also wrote a book called It's Up to You, the Practice of Self-Reflection on the Buddhist Path.

Light comes through, Buddhist teachings on awakening to our natural intelligence and uncommon happiness the path of the compassionate warrior. Oh, also, the intelligent heart, a guide to the compassionate life. So you're prolific. Oh, thank you. Thank you very much.

It's a wonderful to spend this time with you then, and really please carry on your outreach, to to the larger world as you are you know put in this position with such a good fortune of your karma to really do some good work and I really appreciate all your work that you have done already. Thank you. Next time I see you I will be a shining beacon of Sewa. Wonderful. I promise. You already I can see you have a love that I knew. Don't trust your first impression. Thank you very much. Really appreciate it.

Thank you very much. Okay, that does it for another edition of the 10% happier podcast. If you liked it, please take a minute to subscribe, rate us. Also, if you want to suggest topics, you think we should cover or guests that we should bring in, hit me up on Twitter at Dan V Harris. Importantly, I want to thank the people who produced this podcast, Lauren Efron, Josh Kohan, and the rest of the folks here at ABC who helped make this thing possible. We have tons of other podcasts.

You can check them out at ABCnewspodcasts.com. I'll talk to you next Wednesday. Hey, hey, prime members. Wednesday. Do us a solid and tell us all about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com Slash Survey.