Ten Percent Happier with Dan Harris - 150: Mallika Chopra, Introducing Middle Schoolers to Meditation

Episode Date: August 29, 2018

Mallika Chopra calls meditation "a great gift" to her life, not only because she said it causes a dramatically positive change in her father, Deepak Chopra, but also because it has helped her through her own parenting journey of raising two daughters with her husband. - Nightline debate, "Does God Have a Future?" https://abcn.ws/2Nv5OPw - Twitter, Facebook, Instagram: @mallikachopra - Website: http://www.mallikachopra.com/ - Books: http://www.mallikachopra.com/books-2/ See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

It kind of blows my mind to consider the fact that we're up to nearly 600 episodes of this podcast, the 10% happier podcast. That's a lot of conversations. I like to think of it as a great compendium of, and I know this is a bit of a grandiose term, but wisdom. The only downside of having this vast library of audio is that it can be hard to know where to start. So we're launching a new feature here, playlists, just like you put together a playlist of your favorite songs.

Back in the day, we used to call those mix tapes. Just like you do that with music, you can do it with podcasts. So if you're looking for episodes about anxiety, we've got a playlist of all of our anxiety episodes. Or if you're looking for how to sleep better, we've got a playlist of all of our anxiety episodes, or if you're looking for how to sleep better, we've got a playlist for that. We've even put together a playlist of some of my personal favorite episodes. That was a hard list to make. Check out our playlists at 10%.com slash playlist. That's 10% all one word spelled out..com slash playlist singular.

Let us know what you think. We're always open to tweaking how we do things and maybe there's a playlist we haven't thought of. Hit me up on Twitter or submit a comment through the website. Hey y'all, it's your girl, Kiki Palmer. I'm an actress, singer, and entrepreneur. I'm a new podcast, baby, this is Kiki Palmer. I'm asking friends, family, and experts,

the questions that are in my head. Like, it's only fans only bad, where the memes come from. And where's Tom from MySpace? Listen to Baby, this is Kiki Palmer on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcast. All right, Malika Chopra is coming up and we'll get your voice mail in a second.

First, an item of business. And for this item of business, I want to bring in a special guest. Her name is Lauren Efron-Lorne. Can you please come in to the studio? Come in here, please. She's walking from the next room over. Lauren Efron is a name you will have heard if you've listened to this podcast for a while

because she's the producer of Lauren. Can you sit here, please? Yeah, she didn't know I was going to do this. She didn't mad at me. Lauren, this is your last podcast. This is why we do this is why producer stay in there in the other room and not in this room. Okay, I'll do most of the talking.

I'm shaking. I'm shaking. Terrible. This whole podcast started because I randomly ran into you in an elevator and I said to you two years ago, do we do any podcasts and you said, I don't know, but I'll find out. And two days later you had all these executives and people who good

Do things in my office and we had a podcast that you have produced beautifully for two years But you're now being called to do something else This would never have happened without you. Oh well. I'm I'm speechless. I'm beyond honored Dan. It's been thank you It's been amazing working for you. I mean, you make it so easy. And I'm truly honored that we were able to do this for you. Yeah. Well, we did it with each other.

Yeah, absolutely. It was an amazing team. And I'm really going to miss you. It's been phenomenal. And I just, people, because people who listen to the show are pretty loyal about it, they get really into it. And I just want everybody to know your name and hear your voice, because this would never have happened without you. I just cannot say that strongly enough.

Well, thank you. Thank you. And I told you I'm shaking. This is, I was not prepared for this at all. I would have thought, you know, I would have meditated on it. I would have thought this through. I would have planned things I would have said that I was not prepared for this at all. I would have thought, you know, I would have meditated on it. I would have thought this through. I would have planned things I would have said that I was totally ambushed. But no, I mean, it truly, it's amazing what you've been able to lead the charge here for us. This is all week. This is all week. No you.

It's all week. We did it together. It's been amazing. And Josh Cohan has been a huge part of it. Absolutely. Absolutely. So So thank you. I just want to say thank you. It also it's your birthday So you got a little treat coming from me and my wife. Oh my god. You guys are too much but thank you and Yeah, and it's been you know, we talked a little bit about this, but it's been an amazing you keep saying we and it's true

It's been an amazing, you keep saying we, and it's true. It's been an amazing partnership, and I feel incredibly blessed to have worked with you on this, and to be on this journey with you. It's just to be a part of something here, not just in your orbit, but also here at the network too. It's just, it's incredible what, and now I'm saying, oh, I'm every third word because now I can't do a live, by the way, so do I. That's what happens when you don't have a plan.

Oh, God, see? I mean, this is, and I'm blush, I feel my face is on fire. What I'm trying to say is, and what I'm not articulating well is that it has been an honor and a pleasure to work with you on this and to make this thing happen and to work with Josh on this.

And now I see that Josh is in the room and is probably in just shaking his head at me because he's just like, you're well done. You're really, yeah, you're really just, yeah, okay. Wrap it up. But yeah, and I just feel truly blessed for this opportunity too. And I'm fully mean that with all of my heart. This has been a wonderful experience.

I'm not leaving ABC. I just got heart. This has been a wonderful experience. I'm not leaving ABC. I just got a new position that will move me off the show, but I'm still gonna be sticking around. And so I hope that this is the start of many other projects that we get to work on together. So, and thank you, thank you very much. I need to thank you.

And not only did you build this thing, but you in your departure recruited an amazing successor in Ryan Kessler who's operating the boards right now is gonna take over and continue to build on what you have constructed. So again, huge thank you From ABC this is the 10% happier podcast Dan Harris. Canner Intuitive guest this week, given the fact that you made fun of Deepak Chopra quite vigorously in my first book, 10% happier. Why then would I have his daughter on this show?

Well, first of all, even though I made fun of Deepak, I actually liked the guy. The second of all, his daughter is really interesting, it's really cool, it's really smart. She's just written a book about kids and meditation, and unlike some of our previous guests, she doesn't come at it from the angle of the book, doesn't come at it from the angle of teaching parents how to teach their kids how to meditate. This is a book for middle schoolers to read, and so they can meditate on their own, no assembly required on the part of the parents. So we talk about that and we talk about whether her dad will forgive me for making fun of him in my book. So we'll get to that in just a second. Let's do your voice mail first, though. Here's number one.

Hi, Dan. This is Ron from Phoenix, Arizona. I am a longtime podcast listener, love your work and effort to bring mindfulness to everybody that's interested in learning it, really. One question that I have, I read both of your books and lots of other things as well. But I would like to hear some of the performance

improvements that you've seen meditation and lots of other things as well. But I would like to hear some of the performance improvements that you see in meditation providing to people who practice. So looking at handling things in day-to-day life is great, but when you look at law enforcement officers or military personnel or things like that, generally they're looking for performance improvements in their life and ways to get them on that. So anything that you could talk to about that would be great.

I'd love to hear your perspective on that and how people who are interested in performance enhancing and how meditation and mind- and mind training might help fast. Yeah, really, and that's about it. Thanks Dan. Bye. Thank you. There are two big benefits that I hear people like Marines and cops and corporate executives talk about when they talk about performance enhancement. One is focus. We have these eminently distractable minds and staying on task is a hard thing to do and meditation. This daily exercise of trying to focus on one thing at a time, then getting lost and starting again, getting

lost, starting again, is can be maddening, but it has been shown and this is where the science is reasonably strong to rewire the parts of the brain that have to do with attention regulation. So that's one of the big things you hear from people about ways in which these are high performing individuals. They report that it boosts their focus. The second is mindfulness. In the sense that, let's say, in the sort of emotional reactivity sense that people feel less owned by their emotions, so they're making better decisions, as it pertains to US military,

what you hear, is that people are making better decisions in the field, i.e. not shooting when they don't need to shoot, which actually has a strategic value because when you're fighting a counterinsurgency, the classic insurgent tactic is to get the occupying force to engage in violence that turns the populace against them. And so having the ability to respond wisely instead of reacting blindly to provocations can have a real strategic value. So those are the two things you hear talked about from a performance enhancement perspective.

But I just would add one thing, which is that, you know, I'm all four performance enhancement. I am in a high stress field. I'm in a couple of high stress fields and I have seen the aforementioned benefits show up in my own life, but let's not overlook something that's often overlooked, I think, to the detriment of meditators or prospective meditators.

When we talk about meditation only from a performance enhancement perspective, which is that meditation also makes you less of a jerk. To yourself and others. And that too is a performance enhancer, because the science shows that people who are more compassionate or are less, are healthier, are happier, are more popular, and more successful. And I think meditation by giving you self-awareness, which allows you not to be so yanked around by your emotions, can boost your

ability to be kind to yourself and others. Now I say this as somebody who's deeply imperfect and I recently had what's called a 360 review where you the reviewer, you hire a company like a corporate coaching company and they talk to all people from all angles in your life, your people who work for you, work next to you, people you work for. And yeah, so I've been calling this a kindness colonoscopy. And my 360 review was a very humbling experience. So meditation does not make you a saint as I have learned the hard way, but I do think it helps.

And I found that having just received a bunch of tough feedback, you know, the mindfulness helps me incorporate it wisely, I think. More wisely than I otherwise would have without lapsing too much into defensiveness. So you'll hear a lot more about the 360 because I'm going to write a book about it because it was, oh, let's go on to this next call here. Hi Dan, my name is Melissa and I am a road warrior here in Southern California. So I want to thank you, first of all, for your podcast and your book, for your podcast, Kini Company on my daily drive.

And I was thinking about it the other day. I have three kids that are three girls that are under the age of eight. And my oldest I noticed, everyone's well-immotate me, meditating, which you've seen me do for a couple of years now. And I think it's a good time because she's showing interest for me to be able to introduce the concept to her. I know you've had guests and even referenced in your book as well,

benefits for children learning how to meditate. And I want to see if you would have any suggestions or guidance on resources or ways for parents to be able to impart some of these learnings to their kids and start that practice early. But love to know your thoughts. Thanks so much. Well, drive safely, because driving is, I don't envy you having to drive a lot.

I don't love driving. But thank you for listening to the podcast. I appreciate that. And once again, my brilliant producers have picked a question that tees us up perfectly for this week's guest. As I mentioned at the top of the show, Mollika Chopra talks about meditation. She talks directly to children, although she's talking to children three or four, two, three, four years older than your kid.

So I think that that's one root, but probably not best for your kid. For your child, I would say you should go back and listen to the podcast we did with Susan Kaiser Greenland and Anika Harris, which was, I don't know what podcast number it was, but it was a while ago, and they co-authored a book called Mindful Games. And that is really written for parents to teach meditation to their children. But let me just say one thing about, I don't need to give a long answer to this before we get into Malika, but long time listeners will have heard me say this before,

but hopefully it's worth saying this again. I think it's great to try to introduce meditation to your children, but I would say don't try too hard because it's gonna be easy for them to reject it if it's coming from you. And that really in the long term, the thing that's gonna make this stick,

my suspicion, and my experience having had parents of my own, not, they didn't teach me meditation, but they taught me lots of other things, will be to practice what you preach. In other words, for you to be mindful as a parent, I think that's likely to have a longer shelf life for your child mentally and psychologically than for you to wag your finger and tell them that they should be mindful. I suspect you're already doing that if you're a long time listener. So you're probably on the right track. And so in the end, I hope

I hope this just is a long way of saying, you know, you should not put too much pressure on yourself for your kids to take this up. But if you do want to, the book I would recommend is Mindful Games Spices in Casar Greenland with Anika Harris, no relation, but with friends. Okay, great, let's get to Malika Chopra, who is delightful.

She's written a bunch of books, including Living with Intent. That was back in 2015. That's a quite an interesting story behind that book, which she will tell in this podcast. But the most recent one is called Just Breathe. And it's meditation and mindfulness for young folks, in particular, middle schoolers. She has a very interesting background.

She's a business woman. She's written several books. She went to the Kellogg School of Management and you will recognize her last name. As I mentioned at the top of the show, she is the child of Deepak Chopra. And she has some very interesting things to say about being raised by one of America's,

and one of the worlds, most well-recognized gurus. So here we go, Malika Chopra. Nice to see you again. Yeah, good to see you. Thanks for coming in. Thank you for having me. How did you get interested in meditation? I learned how to meditate when I was nine.

Nine. So my dad had... I'm surprised he held it from you for that long. Yeah, no, we were part of my dad's journey. So my dad was a pretty stressed out miserable doctor. And people may be surprised to know that before meditation, he smoked incessantly, drank a lot, worked 24 a seven. And when he discovered meditation, he walked into a meditation

center. And he had this life transforming first meditation, where for the first time he felt a sense of peace and quiet. And quit drinking and smoking immediately, came home, took my mom to learn how to meditate, and the next day my brother and I learned, so we were nine and six. And what kind of meditation was this?

So it's TM, Transcendental Meditation, so he learned in Cambridge. And Cambridge, Massachusetts. And... And it's a doctor of which hospital? So he was a Brigham God. Brigham, yeah. But he...

Or my father worked in Tauri. Oh, yeah. So my parents came here when they were 21 and 22 years old. He came for his residency. So they began in New Jersey from India. But what's interesting is our family in India was not at all a spiritual family. My grandfather, my dad's father,

was actually the first Western trained doctor in India. He was sent to London. And so our family was a very kind of Western-focused science medical family. My uncle, so ultimately, became one of the deans at Harvard Medical School. And so my father really didn't have that kind of spiritual background, but he had more of a philosophical background. And so when he was interested in Krishna Murti at that time, and then when he learned meditation,

it was an experiential kind of transformation. Can you just quickly say who Krishna Murti at that time and then when he learned meditation it was an experiential kind of transformation. Can you just quickly say who Krishna Murti is? Krishna Murti is one of the great Indian philosophers, you know, of the 20th century basically. And so writes a lot about Vedic philosophy and Eastern philosophy. So that was someone that my dad was fascinated by and had read a lot of his work and had heard him speak also, but it was very intellectual. So I think his first meditation was very experientially transformational and you know just took him on this new path. So what was it like for you at age nine? What was that first you remember what that first meditation

was like? Not really, but would I remember? and this is why I wrote this book, and I am passionate about sharing meditation with kids, is the before and after of meditation for our family was very dramatic. So before, my dad was like stressed out, angry, didn't really know anything about me and my brother, like he was working all the time. Post meditation, he was happier, he was more peaceful, he was around suddenly, he'd be interested in what grade we were in and what we were studying. And so our family life really transformed as kids because our parents were happier.

But so that speaks to the impact of the practice primarily on your parents and how that sort of trickled down to you. Did you remember it having an impact in your own mind beyond the relationship with your parents? So I absolutely, because what meditation we learned so young, but what meditation did for us, both my brother and I, is it gave us a tool to know ourselves better. So in a world and especially event today, it's even a world of more stimulation, but you know as preteens and then teens and college days, you know, you're conflicted, you're confused, you're finding your identity and Meditations just gave this way to find an inner silence where

we were grounded in an inner knowingness that was different from all like the conflicted messages. That being said, my parents didn't force my brother and I to meditate at all. It was something they taught us and we sometimes used, sometimes didn't use. I've gone through a 35 year plus meditator now. So I've gone through years where I meditated regularly, other times I didn't. But as a kid, I think it was the greatest gift my parents gave us. So, talk to me about that. Talk to me about your career as a meditator. Has it always been transcendental meditation and one were the on times, one were the off times.

Yeah, so I learned when I was nine, learned TM. I would say in my teenage years, I was very on and off, but I used it when I wanted to, and my parents never forced us to, but we saw that my parents meditated regularly, and so it was kind of just the thing our family did. I would say got them and I maybe rebelled by not meditating for years. It's a little brother. Yeah, it's a little brother. And so we rebelled for a while. When I went to college, I actually was a very regular meditator. There was a TM center. I went to Brown in Providence. So there was a TM center there and it was a nice place for me to escape.

And because of the work that my father did, I was older, so I was in college when my dad started to write his first books. We also just met interesting people and traveled around and we saw the benefits of people who were coming to my dad for help. So that was very dramatic. And then I would say my work career was originally with MTV and in media and very non-chopra-esque type of things. What were you doing? I actually was one of the first people for MTV when they launched in Asia. So I was the first person in India. I met my husband at a rave in New Delhi. Yeah, and so you know, I kind of did my thing both my brother and I We really did not live what people would perceive us to live like this new age type of life We don't live that at all actually

And so for me then I think my meditation practice kind of was more intermittent and Then I had my kids and then life got really stressful So I felt like I didn't really have time between all the kids stuff and work stuff. How old are they now? So they're 16 and 14 now. So I would say when they were about eight and 10 is when I was really stressed out.

And so that was the time that I really rediscovered a regular meditation in my practice, which was transformational. And the last book I wrote was called Living with Intent, my somewhat messy journey to purpose piece enjoy, which was rediscovering these gifts that I learned as a kid. And in that when you came back to it, it was again, Transcendental Meditation. So when I came back to it, at that point,

the Chopra Center has a similar month-to-day, based primordial sound meditation, but my dad really transitioned from the TM world. Not uncontroversially, not uncontroversially. And so TM is an amazing practice, but I think our family, just generally and me in particular, really believe that you should explore different things, use what works for you. And so in this book, just breathe, it's really many different meditations, mindfulness exercises, using breadth, words like I am more mindfulness exercises. So I'm not attached at all to any particular type of meditation? I want to do two things. One is to just define for people the kinds of what

TM is, what you also talked about, sort of non-TM mantra based meditation, what mindfulness is. I think we should define all of that, but I also want to know when you went back to it, when your kids were 8 and 10, I think you said, and you were really stressed out what impact it had on you. I don't know which one we should do first. So let me first tell you the impact. So I, like many women and men, was balancing a busy career life of actually had a small company and consulting and then my kid life and just running around. And I realized one day as I was speaking to an audience

about the power of meditation and mindfulness that while I was speaking to them in the back of my head I was having a parallel conversation which was after after going to the grocery store, pick up the dry cleaning, get the dog food, turn in the permission slip for my kids' field trip, write a note to my investors, and I realized in talking about being mindful and present, I was completely distracted and a hypocrite. And so that really began this process of reading. I've had many such moments. Yes, and they continue. Yes.

And so that was really transformation that I realized I was exhausted, tired, unhappy, and really running around all day long. But at the end of the day felt like I hadn't really accomplished anything. So my last book was really a kind of rediscovery of these techniques. And you know, which was really appropriate and great at that time in my life. And when I rediscovered them, I realized that I was so busy saying I never had enough time to do anything. I didn't have time to meditate because I was running around all the time. But when I even just found that five to ten minutes a day, it really grounded me for

the day. And it really had a transformational effect because when I was getting more rest, I just could be quiet to process everything that's going on and kind of find that priority. And then three, actually really slip into kind of a space where I could let go of things. And that really brought the sense of grounding and peace back into my life. And so I speak a lot to women who are balancing many things and men, but you know, finding that 10 minutes once a day can actually transform your life. And if you don't do it regularly, you don't do it regularly. I don't believe in guilt either, you know,

we shouldn't get stressed because we're not meditating. So finding a regular practice. So that was transformational for me. And then we can get into the definitions. So meditation for the way I define it, meditation is a way to quiet your mind. And we can do that through breath and using sound. So, a mantra-based meditation, mantra basically represents a tool for the mind. So, mind is the root for mind and tries the root for instrument, tried and things like that.

So, a mantra is just a tool for the mind. So, meditation usually uses sound or breath or a mantra to settle our mind. Mindfulness is awareness. A mantra usually is a word you or set of words can be some secret Sanskrit word handed down to you for a couple hundred dollars via the TM folks or it can be just your dad will use the words I am. Exactly. That you repeat to yourself silently in your head, sometimes

tied to your breath, sometimes not, as I understand it, you can correct me where I run a foul of the facts here. And you focus on this word and every time you get distracted, you sort of gently begin again. And then mindfulness is more based on just starting with the breath itself. Yes. So a month right in the TM tradition, they call it primordial sound. Yes, so a mantra in the TM tradition, they call it primordial sound monthras,

so they represent healing vibrational energy, which is why they have different sounds. But yes, I am a big advocate, especially with kids and people starting meditation of just using a word like I am. And I am vibrational, the reason we use it is it's a healing sound. So think of the word A-men or A-ma or A-hum or Abraham. They all have this infinite to the finite A-hum,

A-men, A-ma. So I am is a similar vibrational sound that's healing. So I just as a skeptic, when I hear people talk about vibrational sound that's healing. So I just as a skeptic when I hear people talk about vibrational sounds that are healing it fires off all of my synapses. How do you respond to that? So absolutely I would encourage you to be a skeptic. I would encourage and actually I know seriously I would encourage everyone to be a skeptic and to use what works best for you. And that's why I'm a big believer in trial of the different techniques. Because for some people, it doesn't work and it's hogwash and your mind's gonna go to places

where it's not gonna work. But if you find that it helps you and you find I am, it's a sound that is soothing and healing, go for it, you may have other words. You know, when I teach a lot of people have words in their particular religions, which help them or other people who just prefer to use the breath. So I would suggest use what works for you. I mean, I, I, having said that, I mean, I react a little bit to the claim of a healing vibration or whatever. Having said that, I have a tiny bit of experience

of meditating with a mantra and setting aside the claims I did find it Really interesting For example, I think the first time I ever meditated with a mantra And one of the first times I ever meditated full stop was with your dad when I was shooting a story on him for Weekend edition of world news tonight We're doing a series of stories about people who are influential in the happiness business and he sat me down to do a 20 minute meditation using the words I am internally. I would repeat them to myself.

I think I would say it on the in breath and out breath, but I can't remember. I can't remember. Yeah, but definitely just saying those words and I remember opening my eyes 20 minutes later and feeling like, oh, that was 20 minutes. It felt like two minutes. Yeah. Yeah. So I would encourage people to use, try different things. That's my main thing is try what works.

So for meditation, some people enjoy going and having like an intellectual kind of deep dive into the T.M. world or other worlds. For me, when I teach, I usually use the words I am or maybe aham, you know, which doesn't come with I am often comes with associations of things. So aham usually doesn't come with associations. So that's meditation. doesn't come with associations. So that's meditation. Mindfulness is awareness, so being aware of your thoughts, your body, and the surrounding environment. So with that, again, can be being aware of your breath, being doing body awareness, exercises, in this book, and otherwise one of the things that my dad used to really teach my brother and not a lot was about thinking about your internal dialogue and so how you speak to yourself and speak to the world,

being aware of things like how you walk, how you speak, how you eat, how you interact with others, mindful listening, their endless mindfulness exercises. And then in this book I talk about movement, so basic yoga, because especially for kids where sometimes it's hard to sit down and be still, we don't need to be still all the time. Yoga is a great way to become more aware of your body and to move and let out energy and it can be great for kids. And then last is really motivation. So things like gratitude exercises, setting intentions and really kind of creating that dialogue that's positive for kids and adults. Celebrity feuds are high stakes.

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You can listen ad free on Amazon Music or the Wondery app. So this book is for which I hold in my hands hands is for kids who are, did you say eight to 12 years old. So I wrote this book for middle school kids because what I found, it was a great gift for me meditation. So I wanted to share that. And as I've gone through my own parenting journey, I found that when my kids are five, six years old, they learned how to meditate and then their friends and through my other

fellow families. I started to teach other kids, teach other parents. And what you realize, I know you have a young one, but what you realize as kids get older is that they also distress the start adding up pretty quickly, and I think lots of people read parenting books and meditation books, but this book is really four kids. Like, I want to empower kids to discover meditation for themselves, so this book is written similar to you may be familiar or maybe not. The American girls have these books on the body, like which kids themselves can read and learn about,

you know, their physical changes. So this isn't just something for parents to read. No, this is for kids. Oh, great. It's written for eight to 12 year olds, and the goal is to empower kids directly. And my hope is that kids will be teaching their parents about this stuff

rather than wasteful. Is there any evidence that it works? I think there's research that is starting to come out, which I'm not confident in standing by the research completely yet. So, you know, I just did a program, actually just completed a Master's at Columbia at the Spirit Mind Body Institute in the clinical psychology department and they're driving a lot of the new research because I think a lot of the research has been driven now historically by groups that want to promote and market their own stuff. So some of the research is supposedly thing that it helps with test taking or with anxiety or depression, but I think it's again the method of

research is so specific that it's hard to kind of feel the overall feeling. So in my experience and that's why I've written this book for kids is like kids try different things. There's a lot of research written this book for kids is like kids try different things. There's a lot of research on gratitude, for example. But like kids kind of discover and try different things and see what works for them. So do you do you have any evidence that kids? I mean, what are you seeing anecdotally from kids who you know who've picked up this book? Is it are they actually doing the thing or they rejecting it as like,

I feel like a little me would have said, no way, I don't wanna do this. So the little you and the little me who's pretty a little bit older is we grew up in a time when people were really skeptical. So my dad was the Asian witch doctor who was selling snake will, right, when he started out. The kids today and you will see this as your kids starts to go to school,

meditation mindfulness is part of these curriculums already. So kids are already doing time-in instead of time-out. Kids are already, you know, walk to lunch quietly, and you know, let's not talk. Kids are already being taught to be grateful. So actually, this is already happening in many school curriculums. It's not called meditation and mindfulness, but teachers and just academically, more and more programs are really incorporating yoga and movement.

So actually what I'm finding is the kids, this is like so normal. It's not something that's kind of out there for them, like it may have been for you. And I'm sure you will end up seeing this when your kids starts to go to preschool. Like these programs are already incorporated in there. So for someone like me who's sharing this, and that's why I wrote the book in a very And that's why I wrote the book in a very, in a way that didn't bring any religion or kind of too much spiritual dogma with it, but really just simple techniques. So go for a mindful walk.

Take ten steps and just notice how you feel. Eat a meal quietly with your family and see how that feels different. Think about something you're grateful for before you can go to bed at night. So we're not calling it these kind of big techniques, they're just simple exercises. What about your kids, if you taught them and has it stuck or do they reject it because they're rebellious?

So my kids learned when they were five or six. Obviously with my father, Deepak Chopra, as their grandfather, he taught them when they were like five or six. And my kids are, 16 and 14 and my nephew, my brother's son, is 10. So, my 10-year-old nephew actually is the most regular in his meditation practice. So, he loves to sit like the summer. He was here with my parents. He's sad and meditated with my mother every single day.

And it was just like a sweet, he's sweet still, right? So my kids are 14 and 16. So for them, there's a lot of eye rolling and like, you know, everyone in the family talks about this stuff, but they have the technique. My older one who's 16 going in 11th grade and has a pretty stressful, just academic and extra curricular life, I found that she does it on the bus sometimes, and has a pretty stressful, just academic and extracurricular life. I found that she does it on the bus sometimes, which is coming home from school. She doesn't need to talk about it. I don't even ask her.

I strongly, strongly believe as parents. We shouldn't force our kids to meditate. It's more, give them the tools, and then they'll figure out what works best for them. My 14-year-olds kind of in between the 10 and 16-year-olds. What advice would you have from, because I get asked this all the time from parents, you know, how do I get my kid to access the benefits of meditation? What advice do you have? So I have pretty strong advice because of my own background.

So my parents never never ever forced my brother in high timidity. And I think if they had forced us to midity we would have totally rebelled against it. Instead they had a meditation practice and a regular meditation practice and we were able as we grew up to see how that helped them and helped our family. So it was something that we kind of wanted to do because I made our family happier. So with this book, I know for example that parents are probably going to buy the book to give to their kids. And what I hope they don't do is say, oh, no, you have to do this. Like I hope that

they give this book to their kids. Maybe they open up a page. It depends on a family dynamic. Like maybe it's something the family does together, or maybe it's just something that sits on the kids' bedside table. And one day when they're feeling stressed and anxious, maybe before a test is coming, maybe they peek into the book and find something that works for them. So I do feel pretty strongly like you can't force

your kids to do this stuff. You know, I've talked about this before in the show that my attitude, my son's only three, but and I don't know if I'm just justifying my laziness because I don't know how to teach a three-year-old to meditate, but so I don't talk to him about it at all, but he knows that daddy meditates and that mommy episodically meditates, but definitely knows that daddy does. And my goal is just to just like with my parents growing up, I knew that they exercised a lot. And they didn't force me to exercise, but it was just like, oh, that's what grown-ups,

happy successful grown-ups do. So I'm hoping that that's one root, but I also want to give them the tool. At some point, I don't know how I would like to teach them how to do it, or have somebody teach them how to do it. So you can reject it, but at least like you, he's got it baked into his neurons on some level. Yeah, and I think that's one I do believe that naturally in schools, it's becoming more acceptable. Just breathing exercises. It's not called meditation, but breathing, taking a pause, etc. So I think it's... I have a friend, my wife's best friend, as a Cuban American, lives a pause, et cetera. So I think I have a, sorry, I have a friend, my wife's best friend

as a Cuban American lives in Miami and her daughter goes to school where they call it Espacio. Exactly, yeah, exactly. So I think this isn't foreign stuff anymore. Like even I think when you discovered it was still like, oh, something new. But this is so mainstream now. So the reason I wanted to do this book is what I realized is when all of my friends, my kids, friends, parents were reaching out to me and saying, can you teach my kids how to meditate? One, I realized like as the mom of their friend, like I'm not a cool enough person to teach the meditation. And so, you know, they were either learning it in school, but I realized that if I could create something that they

can just discover it on their own, you know, maybe that will help. What's it like for you to kind of go into the family business? So my brother and I both, you know, my brother got them. We have historically actually, we should say a documentary film producer. Yeah, and doing really well. We're really proud of him. My brother and I both historically have not wanted to be involved in the family business, whatever that is. And so, one my dad, we're not involved in the Choe Presenter at all. We don't really work with my dad.

Tell us what the Choe Presenter is. The Choe Pres Center is basically at La Costa in San Diego a place that people can go and learn meditation, get treatment for whatever elements who just kind of take a detox week and get education. So but we've never been involved in that. My background historically was more in media and I did my MBA at Kellogg and was in business. My husband's a venture capitalist totally skeptical about meditations.

So he doesn't meditate? No, not really. And he, like, when I met him for the first time, he's like, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard a doctor giving up medicine to write books. And this was 25 years ago, so before my dad became really well known. And my sister-in-law is an ophthalmologist, so we don't really live in that world. What happened for me is when I was pregnant with my first daughter. I was five months pregnant on 9-11, and we thought my brother was on one of the planes.

And it was a very stressful time. And I realized after a series of events, I was in the hospital just getting my baby monitored because I had fainted from stress thinking about where my brother was. And I realized when I was about 30 years old that, you know, this stuff that my dad's been talking about, not meditation as much, but really who am I? What do I want and how can I serve? Had real impact on me. So for me in becoming a mother, it became more important for me for my family to really think about this stuff. So for me, my kids are now, she's almost 17. So in the last

15, 16, 17 years, I've done a variety of things. This is my fourth book, but they've really been more a reflection of what I'm going through as a mom and parenting and that life. And so I've been able to share them. So I don't think it's, we don't think of it as family business. You know, I have a unique voice from my dad because I'm a mom with two kids. Like, my dad could never talk about being a mom with two kids daughter. What did you, what did you, uh, your brother did a documentary about your dad? Like, what

was it? Like seven or eight years ago? Yeah. Yeah. It was pretty tough. What did you think of that? So my, what was that documentary called? So it's called decoding Depot. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty tough. What did you think of that? So my what was that documentary? So it's called decoding deep pot. Yeah, yeah, and my brother traditionally did more word journalism. And then kind of figured out different things. And then decoding deep pot came up. And yeah, he was my my brother was skeptical, you know, as kids, we are very aware of the mythology of my father versus the reality of my father. And that is something my dad encourages, actually. It's not like something he's trying to hide. So he very much knows that people have this perception of him. So when my dad agreed to let my brother do that documentary. I mean, he could have not let it happen, but my dad was okay with demystifying, you know, this idea of what a guru is.

And so, yeah, we're in our family, I think even as kids, one of the things, my dad was always like, don't take life so seriously. Like that really ultimately was the lesson he taught us. And so, yeah, we're like, we're pretty like, kind of laugh at each other all the time. To be honest, I've never read any of my dad's books. I don't think God them has either. But we've typed a lot of them. Like, you know, and we hear about it all the time.

So yeah, so when we were kids, we used to have to type his books like pre-even, computers and word docs and things like that. So I think this all kind of became imbibed in us as kids. He used to just dictate things to us and we'd write them all the time. I interviewed your dad and your brother when the movie came out for a story for nightline, I think. Yeah. And your brother follows your dad around with a camera and shows that he's like, or at least at the time, was just constantly checking his, I guess, then blackberry. Yeah, yeah. And you know, just walking down the street I guess, then blackberry. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, just walking down the street,

just checking his blackberry. Which was my experience, I had spent the little time with you, but before that, which I wrote about, and that he was just on his phone all the time. He just shows him, you know, he definitely warts an all, hair down for better or for worse.

And I got the sense, I got the vibe from your dad that he was cool with it, but also a little bit like, this was pretty, I don't know that he knew it was gonna be that harsh. So I think he, I think my dad's a great sport. So the great thing about our family. So my dad's there in the forefront, but my mother is a really strong

anchoring force and she's really the glue of our family. And so you know my dad's always been out there doing crazy things, but my mom's really the anchor. But my dad truly got them and I are so lucky because whenever we ask him for help because we haven't really helped him that much in his business or doing things like that, but whenever we ask him for help, he's always, always says yes. And so I think with Gotham and decoding Deepak, he went along with it, and yeah, of course,

it was probably uncomfortable to watch, you know, him's certain scenes in that movie, but my dad promoted it. He went out. It got them to do it. Um, and actually that also provided a platform for everything got them to doing now because he did the Kobe film, um, right after that. Kobe Ryan film.

And now we work with Michael. Michael Strayhand and with them, uh, uh, Tom Brady, um, yeah, he's doing amazing stuff. So we are lucky. So I always say that, um, you know, you know, I know people have lots of perceptions, a lot of perceptions about our family, which is fine. They can have their perceptions. They have a lot of perceptions about my father. We grew up with the skeptics attacking my father all the time.

So you know, that's my memories. This is my dad was always the crazy guy. And so it's very like for us, the fact that he's so mainstream now is funny because he was never that way. He was never even seek, like he was fine being the rebel. Like he didn't really, didn't bother him. And so I think what we learned from my father is do what you feel passionate about and what you believe in. And, you know, we're very fortunate that because of his success, we've got to do some great things too.

It's weird. You're a father and I travel in the same circles in many ways. I have literally not seen him since my book came out, which I make fun of him enthusiastically. He did tweet once, said, but he said something pretty nice, which indicates to me that yes, he is a good sport. Oh, my dad. So this is also, I think this perception that people have, and my brother and I've had, it's fascinating that we experienced this a lot. There are a lot of people who think that because they criticize my dad in the past, that my dad has some feelings toward them, like my dad couldn't care less. My dad truly won.

He'll work with anyone. Just generally, we always laugh about it. He'll do anything with anyone. He's a good sport, not just with us, but with anybody. And second, he doesn't really care. Like there are so many people in his world who like attacked him like crazy. And so, and I'm blanking on his name, but this head of the skeptics society, my Shermer.

Yes, Michael Shermer is like with us all the time. He comes to all of the Chopra Center courses. His wife is like a huge meditator and fan of my dads. Like, you would think that the history there, but actually he's a really good friend. He like, I'm a good friend of his. And so we've even had things where people have applied to like the private school that we're at and they'll tell people, oh, well, you know, they may have an issue with us because I once criticized him. And we don't even remember those things like they're so irrelevant, actually. Well, it's funny because I so I have I was there for a lot of the history between Michael Schumer

who's the head of the skeptic society or something. I can't remember. So I moderated a debate, which has an enormous number of YouTube views. It was between Michael Schumer and Sam Harris, who is the famous or in some circles infamous atheist. So they were on one side, Shermer and Harris, not in no relation to me, but we did become friends after that event. And the other side was your dad. And why am I blanking on her name? Eminent philosopher was the woman who was with Hillary Clinton in the whole, you know, Eleanor Roosevelt's occupying the West Bank.

Anyway, I'm gonna kick myself because she's very well regarded. Anyway, the title for the debate we hosted it on nightline was, does God have a future? I think was the name of the debate. Anyway, we did it at Caltech, so, you know, place where all these eminent scientists are and the audience was not with your dad. Yeah recall and there was in fact a

Very funny exchange where the physicists who got up and kind of skewed your dad a little bit and your dad and that guy Leonard yeah, no, yeah, they wrote a book together. Yeah, and letter. It's a great friend of ours And so that's a great example again because Leonard I think I was at that event and I remember but like literally Leonard We see him all the time. We see Michael Schumer all the time. So I think we have learned through my dad's example Which is what I said don't take everything so seriously like he really doesn't get offended Like that doesn't stick with him and I think he's been so used to being attacked for so long. It's kind of funny now that he's so considered,

so many people will kind of meet him and think, think he has this mysticism about him. He doesn't think that seriously either. So I mean, I think I said this in my book and I can't remember because it's been a long time to say, wrote the book. But I definitely have a beef with the self-help world, but I think your dad is on the way benign end of that and has been a lot of his early Advocating for practices like meditation has been despite the fact that he took a lot of

Heat for it has been vindicated and a lot of heat for it has been vindicated. And so I never got the, this is now, I'm just talking to be my own opinion. I made a lot of people in the self-help world who I got a sense, a real stink of vignality off of. And I never got that from your dad. Yeah. I, you know, I, he struck me as a bit of a hustler, you know,

like not in the sense he's trying to get your money, but like he's just hustling, he's, you know, talking to guys who've been spoons with their mind. He's working on video games. He's writing the third, the third seventh book. Yes. That hole. He's always checking his email. Well, I think it's the E.D. Six books now, F.O.A. But, uh, E.D. Six, yeah. None of that's a prize. Yeah. So that, I get that vibe from him, but not like he's trying to pedal something to you that is going to be bad for you, but give him your money. So I, and I said this earlier, when we grew up, what drove us, and I, this book that I've written has breadth, meditation, mindfulness, the whole end of the book really is about

how do we approach life? And that is where I think my dad really had an effect on me and my brother. So he would have us ask ourselves these questions, who am I, what do I want, how can I serve, and what am I grateful for. And that really set the stage, I think, for our whole life. And so I think all of these techniques are amazing. They help with anxiety. They help with all of the research that is coming up.

But ultimately, what we've learned from my father, I think, is do what you're passionate about. Be curious. Don't take things so seriously. See how you can help and serve people. So yes, I would agree. My dad is a hustler in the way that he is fascinated by what anyone does and he has an open mind to things,

which also makes life fun. Like my dad has fun. Like he's a joyful, happy guy, like whose interacting with different people and open, not so judgmental actually, which is also why he can deflect so much of the stuff that comes at him. I buy that. Well, how do you answer those four questions? So I think who am I keeps changing? You know, I play different roles from daughter to wife to mom to entrepreneur to author, but ultimately who am I would have experienced in meditation is that peace and sight.

So that's why I think meditation is such a great gift for kids because as your goals change, if you can still feel anchored in that peace and sight, I call it your safe, happy place and take it with you in all situations. That's a really powerful, empowering confidence that you can get in life. So for me, who am I, is really that quiet place I feel when I meditate, in addition to all the labels. What do I want? It began with obviously very material things in life.

Another phrase, my dad used to have got them, and I say when we're growing up, says, I am responsible for what I see. I choose the feelings I experience and set the goals I will achieve. And everything that seems to happen to me, I ask for and receive as I have asked. He'd ask us, is kids what do you want? We'd say tickets to the Celtics, a trip to Hawaii,

new clothes, Atari games, and he'd be like, okay, we'll work on that. But what about asking for love, connection, peace, a sense of purpose? So ultimately, what do I want? You know, I want health and happiness for my family and for my community. How can I serve? Again, has evolved, but in today's capacity, I think I can have a unique voice as a mom and a woman who comes from a family that, you know, can share some of these techniques to the world. And my goal is, you know, if I can help other families, find some peace and happiness, that's something that, you know, I'll feel good about at the end of the day.

And then what am I grateful for? Honestly, I'm just so grateful for so many of the gifts I have but most importantly my family. I'm really lucky. I have amazing girls, a good relationship with my husband and come from this kind of quirky family, but you know it's been fun. Awesome. Is there anything I should have asked you but didn't, this is good. Thank you for having me. It's a total pleasure. Yeah. Before I let you go, we always do this thing at the end of the show. We call it the plug zone. Yeah. You just plug everything. Give us all your books. Give us websites, social media, everything.

Sure. So I'm on all social media, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter. It's at under Malika Chopra, M-A-L-L-L-I-K-A-C-O-P-R-A. dot com. So that's social media. I have several books, but the new book is called Just Breathe, Meditation, Mindfulness, Movement, and more. And like I said, it's targeted to eight to 12-year-olds. I hope parents, grandparents, teachers, librarians, I'm getting great feedback from librarians and teachers. Get this for their kids. And then my other most recent book was called

Living with Intent, my somewhat messy journey to purpose piece enjoy, which I would say really is more for people dealing with balance and purpose and just trying to get through the day. Awesome. Great job. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, that does it for another edition of the 10% happier podcast. If you liked it, please take a minute to subscribe, rate us. Also, if you want to suggest topics, you think we should cover or guests that we should bring in, hit me up on Twitter at DanB Harris.

Importantly, I want to thank the people who produced this podcast, Lauren Efron, Josh Cohan, and the rest of the folks here at ABC who help make this thing possible. We have tons of other podcasts. You can check them out at abcnewspodcasts.com. I'll talk to you next Wednesday. Hey, hey, prime members. You can listen to 10% happier early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus in Apple Podcasts. Before you go, do us a solid

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