Ten Percent Happier with Dan Harris - 151: Dan St. Germain, 'Takes a Village to Keep Me Going'

Episode Date: September 5, 2018

Comedian and writer Dan St. Germain has earned laughs on "The Break with Michelle Wolf," "Superior Donuts," The White House Correspondents Dinner, his stand-up routines and many more, but behind it all, he has struggled with substance abuse, anxiety and panic attacks, and uses meditation to ground himself. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

It kind of blows my mind to consider the fact that we're up to nearly 600 episodes of this podcast, the 10% happier podcast. That's a lot of conversations. I like to think of it as a great compendium of, and I know this is a bit of a grandiose term, but wisdom. The only downside of having this vast library of audio is that it can be hard to know where to start. So we're launching a new feature here, playlists, just like you put together a playlist of your favorite songs.

Back in the day, we used to call those mix tapes. Just like you do that with music, you can do it with podcasts. So if you're looking for episodes about anxiety, we've got a playlist of all of our anxiety episodes. Or if you're looking for how to sleep better, we've got a playlist of all of our anxiety episodes, or if you're looking for how to sleep better, we've got a playlist for that. We've even put together a playlist of some of my personal favorite episodes. That was a hard list to make. Check out our playlists at 10%.com slash playlist. That's 10% all one word spelled out..com slash playlist singular.

Let us know what you think. We're always open to tweaking how we do things and maybe there's a playlist we haven't thought of. Hit me up on Twitter or submit a comment through the website. Hey y'all, it's your girl, Kiki Palmer. I'm an actress, singer, and entrepreneur. I'm a new podcast, baby, this is Kiki Palmer. I'm asking friends, family, and experts,

the questions that are in my head. Like, it's only fans only bad, where the memes come from. And where's Tom from MySpace? Listen to Baby, this is Kiki Palmer on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcast. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ From ABC, this is the 10% happier podcast.

I'm Dan Harris. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ We've got a comedian on the show this week, and he's funny, but he also has some pretty serious things to say about struggling with his own mind and struggling with addiction. And so this is one of one of these episodes where we have a guest who gets pretty real and pretty raw. So Dan, Saint Germain, coming up, but first, you're a voice mills. Here's number one.

Hi Dan, this is Amy from Dallas, Pennsylvania. Thank you so much for your podcast and your books. I've benefited greatly from them over the years. And my question is, I came to meditation because I had anxiety and panic attacks. And one thing that happens to me a lot in the beginning of meditation is when I was counting the breath, because I was paying attention to them, I started breathing in a more shallow way and a quick way, almost how you start breathing during a panic attack. And the longer I meditate, the less that happens, but I have noticed that when I am upset about something or very stressed out, it still does happen.

And has this happened to you? And if so, have you found a practice or something you tell yourself to allow your body to breathe naturally when your head is getting in the way? Thanks so much. In my experience, it's very easy to get in your head over how you're breathing, especially once it starts, it's hard to stop. In my experience, the good news is that there are many other ways to meditate.

You don't just have to focus on your breath. You can focus on the feeling of your whole body sitting. You can focus on the feeling of your hands, whatever they're touching. You can focus on the feeling of your rear end, whatever it's touching. You can do walking meditation. You can do loving kindness meditation, you can do open awareness, which is where you do a mental noting of whatever arises in your head. There are lots of options. A little plug here, we have all kinds of meditation on the 10%

happier app. So my advice with the caveat, which I know some people are tired of hearing me say, with the caveat that I'm not a meditation teacher, my advice as a friend would be to not get too worked up about it. And if you're starting to get in your head about your breath, just switch over to a different kind of meditation. Loving kindness meditation or meta meditation might be the move because there's probably a lot of self-criticism that comes along with feeling like a screw up. I can't even feel the feeling of my breath. What's the matter with me? I can't do anything right.

So love and kindness might be the move there, but you can also just move to the feeling of your whole body sitting. As Joseph Goldstein, the great meditation teacher likes to say, sit and know your sitting. You've got plenty of options. And if you never, ever meditate on the feeling of your breath again, you will still, you

can still be an A plus meditator because there are plenty of ways, other ways to practice. Call number two. Hey, Dan, this is Drew from Houston, Texas. About 15 to 20 breaths usually into my daily practice, it feels like I'm sinking into what I'm going to call my private mind garden, or some sort of zone where everything kind of feels fuzzy and I'm kind of observing myself, meditating. And I was just trying to figure out what that is.

It feels like it's a desirable place to be, but I just wasn't sure from a, you know, I guess somewhat non-scientific standpoint, what it means to be there. So, appreciate any thoughts you might have. Thanks. I think you should talk to an actual meditation teacher because I would, I personally have a bunch of follow-up questions I'd like to ask about that and can't because we're not having a one-on-one conversation, sadly. But I also feel a little underqualified to answer that question even if I had the answers. Well, here's what I will say which I think is genuinely useful, which is that we are not trying to reach a specific state. The goal of meditation isn't to feel a certain way, isn't to reach a

desirable place. The goal of meditation is to see clearly whatever is coming up in your mind so that you aren't always controlled and governed by your random emotions and urges and thoughts. And so I would caution you against getting overly fixated on this private mind garden as lovely as it may be. And just advise you as I've been advised to do your best to drop all expectations and feel clearly whatever your mind and body are presenting in any given moment. But I do regret the fact that this is a one-way conversation, and I can't ask you more follow-up questions. And I also think this would be a great one for you to sit with a really experienced teacher

who can ask those questions and give better answers than I can. But good on you for continuing to meditate and good on you for identifying that this is happening for you and it may be a great thing. But I would sit with a teacher because I think this is perhaps above my pay grade. All right, Dan Saint Germain, very funny comedian, very successful comedian. He writes on hit shows. Youain, very funny comedian, very successful comedian. He writes on hit shows. You'll hear him talk about it. He's performed on Conan and other late night shows.

And he reached out to me because he was telling me on Twitter a little bit about his meditation practice and the fact that he's gone on meditation retreats. What I didn't know, what I booked him on the show, I thought, okay, successful comedian has a pretty good meditation practice. Could be an interesting conversation. What I didn't know was the extent to which he's wrestling with significant demons. And I applaud him for getting up in this recording and talking about it honestly and seeming to hold nothing back. This is going to be a good listen and I really thank Dan for

coming on. Here he is, Dan Saint Germain. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you for having me. How'd you get started meditating? How did that happen? You know, when I was in high school, I would try, but I would immediately, I couldn't I couldn't deal with it. You were a very different high schooler than me because it was the last thing on my mind. Well, I try to like twice. You know what I mean? It's like saying I tried Ethiopian food. I did it once. I can't really like feel like I was under the tree of enlightenment in high school. I was definitely not fun to be around in high school and college. Oh, I have, and I still do. I mean, I'm sober now, but I definitely had a bad drinking problem bad drug problem

Smokes in high school. Oh, yeah, it started in high school um and Well, I was a new jersey rather for New Jersey, and then I went to Westchester, New York Um, but I was one of those kids who was like oh, I'd get the lead in the school play But then you know like a week later. I was drunken the woods and back of the school play. You know, I saw I was, I was kind of like, hey, if I can get this one sort of thing that I can do, what I really want to do, which was, was get messed up. And some of those times are really fun. Like the second half of the year, high school, when I was just like smoking weed and listening to jam band music,

and I had no responsibilities because at the time i was like band from the public forum because i was uh... i had made some joke on the intercom they didn't like you know because i used to do a school announcements but that was great but then eventually as with all because i think you talked about your book you've had struggles with it eventually it stops working you know and and what would be you know know, first you're the fun drunk, then you're the angry drunk, then you're the sad drunk.

At least that's what my case was, or the sad user, and then... Which it wasn't just booze. No, you know, like it's a ABC alcohol becomes cocaine, or pills, or really whatever I could... Get your hands on. Hands on. I mean, I do, I have to give a shout out to one crack dealer because the only reason I didn't do that because I was too drunk to buy crack and he told me to go home he was like hey man you've had too much so

why don't you come back he was like my guardian angel that guy so that could have shout out to that guy that could have gone down the toilet yeah that would have been really rough but you know I went to two rehabs and... When was the rehab? Well, the rehab was about, man, five years ago. I was just, this part's pretty recent. Well, wait, wait, six years ago, I think.

And I have about a year of sobriety back. I was on, I gotta put on the wrong anxiety medication. I was having horrendous anxiety, which is what the meditation comes into play. Because people don't realize, for me, there's a lot of correlation between a 12-step program and meditation, in the sense that it's really just life on life's terms in a lot of ways and kind of like accepting the moment and not trying to like, you know, you're not in control of the show essentially. So yeah, I've been, you know, it's been a struggle with me for a while and, you know, luckily now I've put in a little time, but it definitely was, you know, it was rough.

It was rough for a while. So you said you were in rehabs? I went six years ago. Well, I went to an outpatient like about eight years ago, I think, and I could be this place called Parolex in New York City, believe that's what the name was. That either sounds like a rehab or a gym, I'm not sure. And then the next one was Sebrocast and South Jersey,

which was good, I mean, it was like a month. The thing about rehab is, all it does is it gets you a month of not doing it. It really doesn't like, you know, you can learn some stuff there, but it's not gonna, it's really like, it's putting like a kid in the time out. You're not really, you know, the kid learn some stuff there, but it's not going to, it's really like, it's putting like a kid in the time out. You're not really, you know, the kid's still going to be drawn, I'm going to want to draw

on the walls afterwards, but for that half, for that, you know, 20 minutes, these and time out, there's going to be less damage at that point. And at the time, I was trying to win back a girl that I had messed up with and, you know, like my, my reasons weren't really if I will get my side to the street it was I messed up and now I'm going to try and selfishly I want to get my life back where it was you know it was kind of it's kind of crazy that the week before Ann I was doing you know John Alvers New York standup show in Comedy Central and in two weeks later I'm literally on a hill with a bunch of other alcoholics trying to pet a horse for equine therapy. You're like, this has been

a real 180 for me. I'm laughing. No, no, no, it's fine. I mean, you know, that's part of the, you know, part of like going to rehab is humbling, you know, like you have to paint Easter eggs. We had to paint Easter eggs while you were there. What's that mean, pay? No, we had to paint Easter eggs. So we're sitting with these grown men like making eggs, you know, like it was around Easter time. Nobody could see their families and then we had to try sober karaoke. It was like, there was some real nightmares, but you know, the plus side I met this guy,

Steve, who actually recently passed a couple weeks ago, I found that me and my girlfriend were going up to vacation in Stovermont, and he was a wonderful resource while I was there. And I wasn't really introduced to meditation there. That's more like a 12-step kind of thing. But eventually, I think what happens is, and you talk a lot about ambition in your book, I read your book at a silent retreat,

which I'm sorry, this is jumping all around. No, it's great, but I, eventually you get out of it and you get sober and you realize it's really not me, it's more of like you can have problems with food, with drugs, with being a workaholic, whatever it is gambling, sex, whatever it is, it's just, it's like a kleptomania, it doesn't, oh, I'm sorry, it doesn't,

you can swear, we're gonna be beautiful. It doesn't matter oh, sorry, it doesn't, you can swear. Okay, it doesn't matter. Like everybody's addiction can almost manifest itself in different ways, you know, for me, it's been like food and work and, you know, like stuff like that where you, you kind of, you kind of jump into that thing. So it's like that whole, the whole monkey mind,

the spinning doesn't really stop because like I had an old sponsor would always say this to me, that you know, the one, the one reason I drank is because I just wanted like that five minutes of peace and quiet, you know. And, and that's kind of what I've, I've wanted with meditation, you know, and what I've, what I've wanted through my life. You know, you think when you get into stuff like, oh, the job is going to save me or the relationship that I'm in is going to save me or some greater, you know, greater cause is going to save me. And it's true, this is like for me, I'm like, you know, because it's never, it's never going to, it's never, you know, it's never gonna be enough, you know? So it's like, so you have to be happy with where you're at. And, and I'm not saying that for me had to like,

well, my ambition, but I noticed that like the stuff that I would, you know, attain in life, you know, whether it was, you know, I wanted to, oh, if I just sold a script, then I would be happy. If I just got on late night TV, I'd be happy. Oh, if I made this girl my girlfriend, I would just, I would just be happy. And none of those things really worked for me because you're, you're, you're, and you're

also putting a lot of pressure on whatever those things are. Yeah, the Buddha has a word for that. Yeah, suffering. Yeah. That's what it is. Yeah, it is. And it massed itself. as a word for that. Yeah, suffering. Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah, it is. It en masse itself and some sort of like weird happiness. I'm gonna find this plateau, you know.

Let me ask you just a few, just two factual questions, just to place myself in your narrative. How old are you? I'm 34. 34, okay, so, and then the other question is, the last rehab was give or take six years ago Five years ago, but you said you've been sober for a year Well, what happened was I had about two and a half years sober and I got put on quantum pen and I know it well

Yeah, and I you know look I I'm very hesitant to talk about benzos because Quantum let me just clarify, benzo diasophees. I have a whole family that includes valium, it's quantum bin, adivance, et cetera, carrier. And I'm currently, you know, I'm on Xanax, like now I take Xanax. Now, you know, there's a lot of, I use this prescribed with the psychiatrist

who's like very highly, you know, to deal with help with panic attacks. But a panic attacks too. Oh yeah, I mean, that's kind of what got me, because I had about two and a half years sober, and then all of a sudden like, I just started, and I'm talking about real, because I'm bipolar too, I have like everything, right?

But like when I was bipolar, I would have this incredible depression, you know? And then I took a mechto this incredible depression, you know, and then I took a mechtole, which is a medication, and that kind of went away. And then the panic it actually I would have, and you know, like, you know, I'd bring up source subject, but I know you've dealt with that. You know, and it's funny when people think of a panic attack, they think it's the speech from network, you know, you're going on mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore and all that. But I was actually going through when I saw,

you know, with soft footage of what you went through, it was very similar to what I started tripping on words. You start repeating words. This is on stage. This was not on stage. I've never really had a problem on stage, but when I was writing on a show, and like the person, this lovely man,

by the name of Chuck Tatham, who was a writer and a minor family, he's terrific guy. But he saw it, you're kind of repeating words. Or you were in the writer's room with him. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm literally going, I'm going to get this water brought, I'm going to get this water, I'm going to get this water. Like that kind of like I was like, I like I was like some sort of like really like like high-stressed auctioneer or something.

So the doctor had put me on quantum. I'm not laughing at you. You can't put me anywhere. It's just fine, yeah. But I got put on the quantum pen and then the quantum pen just changed me. Like I just started using it and I was like, oh this is great, it just feels like one butt light.

And then two days later you're like oh, I can have one butt light. And then five days later, you're in the ER, you know? So it's like, yeah, yeah, because it always leads that it's pretty drastic for me. But you know, the panic attacks then become a little bit more severe again. So I'm like, all right. So I need to use all the tools in my disposal. I need to meditate every morning. I need to pray every morning.

I need to go to a couple of meetings every week. A.A. meetings. Yeah. I need to go, I need to have a cognitive therapist, I need to have a psychiatrist, I need to go to a couple's therapy. I need to do, like I take a village to keep me going because I know, you know, when I'm like, you know,

like the last relapse that I had before this one was like three years before that. And you know, when I'm like, when you get handcuffed ever getting beat up on the street, you're kind of like, this isn't, I can't casually do this. And you know, there's no, I'm never gonna be in Sonoma Valley, you know, with a, with a, with a shardin' A and a black lab

with a handkerchief on talking about stocks. That's just not me. You know, I'm like, I'm, you know, I'm like, let's, let's do the, you know, like as soon as I have one. So, so wait, wait, you ended up in the ER not because you were over served alcohol. You,

no, no, no, no, no, no, that was, that was a different story. I ended up in the ER because I had alcohol you know you were to have everything that no no no no no that was that was a different story I don't have any are because I had you know I have booze and then oh you know cocaine would make this great and okay let me go all the way to get this uh go by cocaine from this one guy and then oh you run out of that so you get something else and then that turns out to be Methanphetamines which I never had before and you think you're dying and then you call in and You know, I took some medical leave time like a couple weeks to get my stuff straight which again I credit that to a wonderful boss Who I don't know if I want to name because I don't know how that really works, but I will say that like

You know, I was I was very I was very lucky and then I was surrounded by gentle people who wanted to see me through. And, you know, like, it's true when you get through that kind of stuff, you cause, you know, you do cause some, you know, destruction, you know, in your wife, people who love you, personal life, and, you know, so you have, but the reason that that came in is I didn't want to drink. I wanted the panic attacks to stop. You know, so I took the quantum bin because I thought that that was going to be a way to get the panic to stop, and I'd be able to breathe again, you know, and then that went to something else. And now I've kind of been able to, again, you know? And then that went to something else. And now I've kind of been able to,

through a lot of work on myself, I've been able to deal with, you know, with, I don't even know, but it's really bipolar, because I don't, because I know people who have bipolar and they're like so far off than I am, as far as like, as far as like what it does to them, but as far as like, you know, I've like, I don't know if it would be an obsessive-compulsive disorder

or followed by depression, followed by the alcoholism, it's all for me. What does your shrink say? Kind of in there. Well, he kind of, he, he, like, I've had different people classify me as different things, you know, there's not, you know, he would say it would be like, he would be obsessed, it was not total OCD, but there's different ways like that, that

whole word is changing now too. So, you know, like, you know, you could have like, like, we're used to thinking, uh, OCD is like, oh, this has got to be, this has got to be screwed. This is going to be screwed. This is going to be playing with the water. Playing with the water ball. Actually, when, you Actually, when I first started doing, I used to bring a rubber band in a room with me, and I would snap it till I'd be like, okay, well, I'm having recurring thoughts. Of something you said to somebody or something like that,

but then I found out I was just snapping it too much. So, to meeting, you see this crazy person in the corner, you know snap in a rubber band and I was able to kind of navigate through it and You know still work at a reasonably high level, you know on top of that I just got done writing on the break with Michelle Wolfe and I wrote on the White House correspondence dinner before that I was one of many writers. This is the infamous Michelle Wolfe. Yeah, right.

I mean, she's amazing and terrific comic, Joe Greider has been so good to me. So I have nothing but good things to say on that front. And before that, I was a, I was read a network show. But then, you know, whenever I would have time off, I would tour, you know, I just, you know, and I would do like, like a late night comedy set to promote now, I was and then if I wasn't working and I thought about where I was Then it's like okay, well then I got I got a drink and use because I just don't want to be with me right now So I have a million questions about your life in the entertainment business I find that really interesting, but let's just circle back for second to meditation You said yeah, I cut you off or I didn't cut you off

I just sent you down many tributaries right right right when when you tried it a few times in high school When did it come back into your life? Well, it came back into my life in a big way About I want to say 2016 like the beginning of 2006. Oh, so about two or three years ago. I started doing TM Transcendental Transcendental rotation. I did the Beverly Hills Center with this guy named daddy denny um and he uh it was it was great um and I had I started and I had recently heard about it because I had read um I mean I had read like David Lynch's catch in the big fish which is a great book about creativity and I

read it it's I have it but I haven't read it. Yeah, it's really good. And I also had read, I had read more of some more Buddhist meditation like Pamush. Is it children or shodran? I always think it's children, right? Yeah, I always like, it's like that Rachel Drow-as-L or the woman who pretended to be a big model. Dull was all, I can't, like I learned their name wrong in the beginning and then that's

it. Like I went through all my college pronouncing Camo Camus, and I still haven't forgiven myself. No, that's the one where I'm gonna take it at that. Yeah, exactly. But I really messed up there. The Rachel Dolezal documentary on Netflix is really good, have you seen it?

Yeah, I saw it, it's a real, I mean, my album is called No Real Winners Here, and that documentary is a real, no real. Nobody like you, you leave that first off. She's a tremendous painter. I will say that for- She's a good painter. Yeah, I mean, it's, that's a, yeah, you watch it,

you're right, this is a, this is a sad person, you know, like it's- I felt for her kids. Yeah, I did too, I did too. It's, you, it's not really a fun watch. No, but it's fascinating. Yeah, it is fascinating. I always find that, this is a little probably off topic, but I always find that,

I'm always very, because I've met a couple pathological liars in my life, and I guess maybe she would qualify as the, and I don't want to focus too much, because that is really, that is making fun of her in my mind is like the epitome, and as a white guy is the epitome of punching down, you know? Like if I'm a black dude, I can make fun of her as much as I want. But, you know, she's clearly got her own cross to bear, you know? But yeah, I got in to TM through that.

And that worked for a little bit. Although I do, you've talked about a little bit on your podcast beforehand, and even in your book a little bit. TM is the ultimate, I like TM a lot, and it helps. And I have a mantra on all that stuff. But it almost feels like crash, it almost feels like the crossfit of meditation. We are like, yeah, I'm gonna do this. All right, just concentrate on the mantra. I'm gonna get done.

Ooh, okay, 20 minutes were out, you know? And it helps, it definitely helps, but I also think that I needed something for more of my soul, for a better use of word, a better, and to be like, all right, well, how can I be more compassionate with people and more compassionate on myself and less of a, less of a, and nicer to people around me and still do what I do. So then I went to this silent retreat a couple years later. And during this time, I was doing a lot of the TM and I went to

the sound retreat. Where? It's in North of California. I kind of got, no, no, no, I want to spear walk a year later. Okay. But I went to this one place. It was fine. I mean, the guy was like, more interested in us getting to use his new pool like that's it the whole time I'll like you know, he's like I got the saltwater pool. You guys should use this pool You know what kind of meditation retreat? I mean he used a very very spout of methods I mean, I don't want to it just it was a nice place to get away after in between jobs But I read your book and I think I read a Jack cornfield book when I was up there and I was listening to a lot of Jack Cornfield's Podcast as I was walking through these kind of beautiful Northern California hills and

And really taking a look at my life and being like what I want to do and and is this really you know who am I and And then of course I read like an article in deadline being like this show got green not this show But the show between got green wet and I'm like oh, I got a good job on that like an immediately one away But I was like in this beautiful Sequoia National Park. I mean, it was like how can I get back in you know? It's it's so it's so funny how like like in a blink of an eye you can go from like being like in your head Dave Chappelle to then Jack Lemons character and Glenn Gary Gwintler-Oss So you're just like come on, but I'll take anything, anything, just throw it at me. So then I kind of put it away for a little bit and I went to, but there's a lot of people

that I read during that time. Like your book really helped me and then I got into Sharon Salisberg from that Tick-Non-Hon, Jack Cornfield, like I said before, and Eck Artoule, and Mark Epstein, Joseph Goldstein. And I've been listening to, I've been listening to Orange Ace Hofer on your app, or 10%. How exosantile Jeff Warren, which helps with my commute when I'm walking through it. So I've always been constantly, like my morning ritual is now, which I may have mentioned before,

and as you know, I wake up, I listen to something meditative, and I meditate, I pray, I radigrate a tood list, and that's how I start my day, and I try to do a little service like once a month, you know. So I have to have like kind of a routine, or else I forget it. I'm done. Well, that makes a lot of sense.

I mean, routine habit formation. This is the way to drill this stuff in. And especially for those of us who need help with our discipline. Yeah. Celebrity feuds are high stakes. You never know if you're just going to end up on Page Six or Du Moir or in court. I'm Matt Bellissi. And I'm Sydney Battle, and we're the host of Wonder E's new podcast,

Dis and Tell, where each episode we unpack a different iconic celebrity feud. From the buildup, why it happened, and the repercussions. What does our obsession with these feud say about us? The first season is packed with some pretty messy pop culture drama, but none is drawn out in personal as Brittany and Jamie Lynn Spears. When Brittany's fans formed the free Brittany movement dedicated to fring her from the infamous conservatorship, Jamie Lynn's lack of public support, it angered some fans, a lot of them. It's a story of two young women who had their choices taken away from them by their controlling parents, but took their anger out on each other. And it's about a movement to save a superstar, which set its sights upon anyone who failed

to fight for Brittany. Follow Dissentel wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on Amazon Music or the Wonder App. How many retreats have you done now? Well, that was, I went to the Silent Retreat. That is the pool one. The pool one. Yeah. And then I went to Spirit Walk, where I was with James, whereas, and Howard Cohen for the

Awakening Joy retreat. Do you know those two guys? I've heard of them. Yeah. How was that retreat? Well, it was six days, and then I left in four because I had to get to a job. And, you know, again, the whole time I'm like, as I'm leaving, I'm like, oh, I've got to come up with ideas for this new season. I want to be fired. I don't want to be

fired, you know, but I'm like, I wish I'd say those two extra days. I still regret that. But one of the things that I do remember from doing this silent meditation, and as you can tell, I have no problems with talking a lot. But, you know, it was waking up in the morning, you can hear everybody eat. And there's that joyousness when you're hearing everybody eat. But it was crazy because they give you this little Dharma seed code and you can re-listen to some of the lectures. And I did that with,

I do one of James' lectures yesterday for like a half hour and I kind of put you immediately in that place of You know Your lips start to like tremble a little bit You know, there's some crazy stuff that can happen. I can only describe it as Is the beginning of if you've ever done and I'm not saying do psychedelics But in the beginning of when you do psychedelics, there's a certain ease and comfort that comes, comes through when you're doing them, like in the beginning, the way your body starts to open up. And then, you know, like the hallucinations, you're

probably not going to get dead from, from meditation, but the, like in the beginning, you do, if you do it enough, there is sort of a plane. And for me, it's like, it's not even when I'm doing it. It's afterwards, I'm like, oh, I was just, I was just less freaked out for the next two hours because I did this. And, you know, oh, I'm easier to work with now. I'm easier to hang out with now. And I can listen to people more, you know?

So it's, you know, right, right after having done a retreat or having done this. Well, just following this stuff in general, it's like going to the gym, you know? So it's, you know, right, right after having done a retreat or having done a retreat. Well, just following this stuff in general, it's like going to the gym, you don't see the results immediately, but then all of a sudden, you notice like a gradual improvement in your life. So you really are seeing that because it sounds to me

like in the last couple of years, this has become like a real part of your daily life. It has, yeah, and I mean, I know that that sounds crazy because about a year ago again I was in a situation where I was in, you know, a hospital but Yeah, I've definitely seen seen it

Help with my life. I mean, you know, I moved back to New York a couple months ago and started a new job and you know I wish I will show yeah and move right in with a girl who I love very much and I wanna make that work and I wanna do well in my job and I wanna move them back to a new city. So, you know, in that situation, I kinda knew that my old way of doing stuff wasn't really gonna work anymore.

And I started, you know, still having some of those, you know, panic attack symptoms, you know, so I would, I was like, I got to work at this or else I'm in trouble, you know. So one year, full year sober, I don't know the technical terms are, but that sounds like reasonably early subride. It is, you know, and I've had way more time beforehand. So it's like I've had three years before, and they don't recommend, by the way, getting in a relationship in that first year.

So I don't recommend that to anybody, but it's working for us. But yeah, it's pretty new, but again, and there's a lot of humility because I've been in and out of the rooms for 12 years and I was 22. And every time the rooms? Yeah, I like 12-step rooms. So every time you go out and then you come back in, there's kind of a little bit of a humiliation there because even when you're drinking you have your head full of all this, well you know you shouldn't be doing it while you're doing it. You know, it's not like you're like maybe it'll work this time around again

but it never works in the same way. You're never going to have that moment that you had in college, you know, where you're like, you know, with your friends or your high school having a couple beers. I mean, and even then I didn't have that moment. I was still, you know, peeing myself and doing stuff like that, so it's not like, you know, it sounds like this is never worth it. It's really never worth it. You know, like, almost everybody in my family, you know, top to bottom has been affected by this disease, you know, so it's not like you know

I always want but you know your head always plays games. You're like maybe I can do it but for me to the 12 step stuff wasn't enough and I also needed to just I Needed to work on the spiritual malady that I kind of had within this and use the past tense there had have I mean I still have I shouldn't say I should say have and what do you mean by spiritual malady I think for me telling myself you know repeating this story in my head of you know I'm a PC everything I touch is nothing will ever be good. And then you know, you get stuck in the past. Oh, I could have, you know this.

Oh, I feel bad about this. And then fearful of the future, a lot of fear. Oh, this, you know, things are going well now, but then this could happen and all this. And none of it's living in the moment. None of this is living in the moment for me. So I always have to like, like meditation for me is a real way to ground myself before I get started and to kind of feel,

you know, feel my, even like simple things like Shal, the Salisburg talks about breathing in for for two seconds, then breathe in half or four seconds in your heart rate lowers. So that's like little techniques like that have helped me a ton. Walk me through them. You talked about your morning routine. Yeah. Just go granular there for some reason.

Well, you know, right now, I mean, right now I'm about to go on tour and, you know, so it's gonna be a little bit different, but I would wake up, I pray. What would you say pray? I actually pray. I mean, I do a serenity prayer. I actually do an art father, which I don't even know where I am with that. And then I do the Dalai Lama's favorite prayer.

So I do like three there and I look man it's like I'm not I'm not I do this I do this because I know I have to work I don't I'm not doing this I do not belong on Oprah's soul soul conversation you know what I mean like and I maybe this about self-sabetic thing like this is like to try to make sure that I'm, and this has only been kind of a recent development where I'm like, I need to, in the last four months, like five, six months, I'm a bright, bright, five six months, like, I need to like, do this routine to kind of get really into it, you know, like,

so I do that, and then I usually listen to a meditation either in the, I listen to something in the shower, inspirational, whether that would be like, like, the beginner's mind or whatever it is. And if I have time, I do sit down meditation. And I've been using your app, but before that, I've bounced back and forth between just more of like either a TM or some more of a meditation beginners like Jack Cornfield stuff, just concentrate on your breath.

Just like we'll get a thought as a thought. You're watching the movie, you're not really just kind of just staying the moment, staying your breath. And then if I don't have really time for that, I'll listen to a walking meditation while I'm going to the subway. And I also write a gratitude list. Every day.

Yeah, I try to write a gratitude list every day. How long does that take? It's just jotting down to you. It depends on how you feel in the morning. But you know, you can always be, you know, you can always be like, hey, I've got, I just, I slept in a, in a apartment last night when I had to literally step over two people on 14th Street

It you know who you know probably were addicted to methadone, you know, so I mean that's a good place to start For me because you could be one of those two people sure. Yeah, we could all I mean The skin you know like there's this great You know I sometimes only I've only bought your twice at this uh... place st. Thomas Xavier it's on uh... fifty they have a really great uh... uh... soup kitchen there but you know you talk to the people that are outside of it and you know you're expecting these kind of caricatures of like

the homeless and it's like oh no these are just normal people who you know i think some of them start with mental illness of course but a lot of me like man you just got a bad card. And you just pull the bad card. So, I mean, that's a good place to start for me. You know, it's usually my relation, you know, my girlfriend, I look at my job, even when I put a ton of pressure on myself with whatever work I'm doing, I, you know, I thank, you know, I'm thankful that I'm not about to go broke

like that day, you know, that I'll have food to eat that day. So it's very simple stuff. And then I'll usually try to find a quote, and I also have a self-help guy. I'm like, I'm usually gonna have a team of scientists working on me. I was gonna say, what shines through to me is that it sounds like you're working really hard

to keep it together. Yes, yeah, absolutely. That's what I've been doing. I've been working hard to keep it together. Almost to learn from some mistakes that I've made and try to be just a better person. We've had a lot of people from the entertainment industry on this show. Uh-huh. Do you think it's common among creative types to have the kind of struggles you're describing so powerfully? Um, I don't know. I think we try to make ourselves

be a little bit more special. You know, look, I've known just as many messed up electricians, man. You know, like, you know, man. I think that being alive is tough. We all know that we're going to die at some point. We don't think about that. Yeah. Really, everything is just so insignificant in a lot of ways and really all you have is hatred or people and like one thing that I know that I need to work on, one of the many things that I need to work on. But it's like I should be a vegetarian.

That's something I know I should do. Like we're killing something with a central nervous system, but in time I'm gonna get there. But I just wanna jump in with a caveat that I'm not a mental health expert. Yeah seems to me like you're you got enough Yeah, use a loaded metaphor that's what I hear. I still vape from time to time. I'm not with weed So yeah, yeah, there's this is this is all jumbly man. I'm sorry. I'm not like no, no, no, I hear this is a podcast Yeah, yeah, I'm by definition jumbly. I know. I don't get the Jumbly now.

But, um, no, I should feel no anxiety. Yeah. I'm telling you, you should feel that you're doing great. All right. Um, people, you're just to, just to expand on that point, it's incredibly useful for people to hear somebody speak openly about their struggles. Yeah. to hear somebody speak openly about their struggles. Yeah.

Because we may not all have it as dramatic a set of circumstances. Yeah. But we all, you said before, it's hard to be alive. Yeah. It's hard to be a, it's a Chris Ragh, you know, it's hard to be a person. And, uh, I like the term I talked about in my first book, the wound of existence. Yeah, it's like we did not have to be here.

It's confusing. And the world kind of wrestling with it in our own ways, much of it through denial or sometimes through deliberate numbing. Yeah, so I don't see any reason for you to be anxious about this discussion. Yeah, that felt good. Thank you. I meant that. You know, actually it would have been helped me a couple days is John Mulaney who was on your podcast.

Just because like John Mulaney is basically a, for guys my age, he's like the LeBron. You know what I mean? No one's gonna be as good of a comic as John. John's at the top. I mean, I'm not gonna get to that point. Now I'm like, oh, okay, I can still have fun with this. And not, because those people got the top spots. Like, I'm not gonna, you know, I'm still not gonna get to the top spots. Like, there's no, what? You might get to the top spots.

I'm not gonna get to the top spots. I'm not gonna get to the top spots. I'm not gonna get to the top spots. I'm not gonna get to the top spots. I'm not gonna, you know, I'm still not gonna get to the top spots like You don't know what you might get no I I don't want first off. I don't know if I want look man. I'm I'd loved I don't need to be Bob Dylan or Bruce Prinsley I'd love to be a Warren Z-von, you know fair enough

That sounds pretty great to me. Bob Seeger. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah That would be even though Warren Z. I was a pretty unhappy guy. But you know, John Malaney, again, you mentioned he's the first, are you, you see your vape, is that tobacco, your baby? Yeah. I'll stop that. No, no, you can do it with, I should tell that it is entire, most, it is most recent comedy shows.

Yeah, it's odor was and I already checked with a doctor. It doesn't, it doesn't, it's not like secondhand smoke. So you won't be, you won't be. That was curiosity. No, no, you won't be. That was curiosity. No, no, you won't be affected by it. That's what I'm trying to. I wasn't worried about. Okay.

I'm just curious. I smoke it like a 1970s newsman. I'm like, like Jason Roberts or something. Does it make any presence? Yeah, it's nicotine. So it's, it's, you know, the only problem is like one of these things, one of these little vape packages is like one pack of cigarettes. So it's like, oh, now I'm smoking three of these a day which is still better than my lungs

But if I was smoking three packs of cigarettes a day I'd I'd have a voice box right now It does speak to the level of anxiety you're feeling right now and generally yeah But John Malaney who is not only a former guest on the show But as a friend of mine, you know, he's I don't want to speak out of school here But I would just say he's not like his mind is permanently placid, even though he's at what you would call the top spot. No, I'm sure it's not. I know it's a relief that he's there.

That's what I was trying to say. It's almost like I used to get the guys who are so above me, it's like, oh, I'm never going to be there. And now I'm like, oh, thank God, I can just be as good as I can be. You know, we're in kind of a, like I'm still pretty, you know, I'm just, just because I'm not in the, you know, one of the top guys or girls in this or, you know, this doesn't mean that I need to, I need to be, you know, I can be just pretty good at it. I think about that a lot too in the news with him.

Yeah. I think about that a lot too in the news with them. Yeah. I think about that a lot because it's hard to deal with envy. And then self-judgment and competition and all that stuff. But if you can just be like, if your attitude can be, I'm just gonna be the best version of myself. I'm just gonna do the best I can and let the chips fall where they may. That seems to me the like the sanest attitude.

Yeah. I mean, the one thing I hope in my life is that, you know, did you see that Ram Dost documentary? I did. Yeah. And you want to kind of have that serenity at the end, right? But it would also be nice to live in Hawaii. But I mean, that would be, I guess it'd be harder

if it was like T-neck New Jersey and you're trying to, and you don't have the private pool and the lovely statues everywhere. He also has a lot of money. Because he has a lot of money. He comes from a very wealthy family. Yeah, so maybe, maybe, if I could get like a,

yeah, if I could, if I could have some sort of way to end it like a Ram Doss, but in, you know, Burbank, that would be fantastic. He's done a lot of meditation and other sexual work, however, too, I think that is really the variable. Yeah. You've talked a little bit about compassion. Mm-hmm.

How, you, you see, there was a phrase somewhere a while ago, you, you just talked about being as nice as you can, given what you do. And in comedy, and we saw this with Michelle Wolfe, and you helped write her. Right, right, yeah, I wrote some of those. So how do you, a lot of people took issue with that And in comedy and we saw this with Michelle Wolfe and you helped write her So how do you a lot of people took issue with that as being Unkind how do you manage what you describe as a desire to be kind with the exigencies and demands of comedy which can require a certain level of let's just say

Judgmentalism I use I use this Iism. I'll say this in the term. For a while, I think I myself, and almost a whole generation, a straight white male comedians would use the F word on stage a lot. And I'm not talking about the other one. You know, it's like a... Not as... talking about the other one, you know, to pretty, you know, is like a, in a, in a, not, not as, not as, yeah, not as like, and not as like, and not,

and not, and not in a homophobic way in the sense of like, like, like, we're like making fun of like that, but we use that as this vernacular. And afterwards you're like, no, that's wrong, you shouldn't do that. Like, that's, that's a word that's heard a lot of people, even when I'm not using it in that sense.

You know. But I thought part of the ethos of comedy was, look, no lines. I think, I mean, I think that sometimes you have to police your own line, right? You know, like, but I think, but here's another thing, is that there's a lot of trial and error. There's some stuff that's happening now. You know, if you look at James Gunn

or some of these people who, you know, know like who or who their stuff is being excavated from you know 2008 2009 you know people make mistakes while they're doing it and they get you know And I think there's a difference between being called out then having a career row and either you know like there There's there's a difference between that but at the White House Correspondents dinner. That's not punching down You know like as far as the people we were talking about there and plus the whole you know I'm not gonna speak for the first off. I'm speaking on my own views I'm not speaking for the show at all But you know a lot of the things that were you know, especially the right-wing media taking out a context and there and

It's like the most powerful line of that speech is Flint still doesn't have clean water. So I think you have to look at who you're punching up with and who you're punching down with. You know, I'm not gonna, you know, as much as I have to be, I'm not gonna get off of this podcast and shed a tear that Betsy Devos' yacht is now, hopefully somewhere in the middle of the Pacific Ocean with an island of plastic that we're really not worried about. I don't know if it's Pacific Ocean or it's Northease Ocean. I'm glad I haven't had a red denue in the past week. But I think it's a difference and sometimes it's how you hit somebody.

But when you're writing, like luckily when you're a writer on something, you're just writing a bunch of stuff. And some of it's gonna be offensive and you're not, I am so glad I don't have to be a head writer and EP and I have to decide what's really a fair. Because when you're writing comedy, it's almost like you're sometimes like Heath Ledger

and the Joker, you know, when he's like, I just chase cars, you know, like you're just like, anything, anything, I gotta get these jokes at, you're sometimes like Heath Ledger and the Joker, you know, and he's like, I just chase cars, you know, like you're just like, oh, anything, anything, I gotta get these jokes at, you know? But I'm, you know, like, I'm a maverick, but I think that everything in that speech was, was fair. I don't, you know, like, I don't think that,

you know, I, you know, those people put themselves in a position to be there, unfortunately, and, you know, I mean, like, look, I would love it. I think that the screaming right and the screaming left, I'm probably a little less left wing than some of my friends, even. But I wish that there was kind of a happy medium there. But we're dealing with a, yeah, it's exhausting, man.

You get on, you go on Twitter and, you know, and you see like some of the stuff that's being spouted and the rhetoric that's, and just people having the instant thought of like, like, hey, I'm just going to tweet something really fast. And then, and then, and that, and that usually like, I've always thought, first thought wrong, you know, I'm going to, first thought wrong, you know? I'm gonna tweet something really fast or Facebook's something really fast and that's gonna be, you know, the truth. And of course I've made that mistake

and I think a bunch of other comedies have made that mistake, but as many as actually like, thinking about what they're saying when they say it, you know? I mean, I, you know, I don't know, do people find a modest proposal offensive you know i'm not i'm not i'm not sure i think i think you do have to use your words carefully but you know unfortunately uh you know rom is burning i don't know you know so it's

the and i really i would love i would love it if the standard that have that it has been put on entertainers and comedians is the same that's put on politicians. I personally don't see it. It has, I think, in the past, for sure, in the 90s and early 2000s. But I don't see it being put on the same. But that's also because I think there's been, and this really is more of a, and my foray is not politics, it's you guys,

that's all you, I'm just a clown, right? But I do think that we live in kind of hysterical times. I mean, this is not a normal, this isn't even taking down George W. Bush. We're in a whole new realm here, you know. Tell me what the new record. The new record. Oh, it's just comedy bits. There's only a little bit of politics in it. And nothing of what I've talked about today will be on this record. I'm just trying to be funny. What's it? It's called No Real Winners here. And it's going to be funny. What's called no real winners here and I was gonna get 800 pound girl records so check that out. I also have a lot of professional wrestling.

So I'm gonna have a professional wrestling podcast on all things comedy called total marks. Again nothing to do with meditation. And the album really has nothing to do with it. Although I do. And was it a record, a live show? Record or a year? Yeah, well I recorded the Stan Comedy Club in New York City. It was a great club. They're opening up a new occasion. And Comedy Club on Staten Madison,

which is just a terrific club, home of the great Paul Ryan. No, I, it's, it's, it's, it was, it was, it was terrific. So you, you record the record then, it's, it's, it was, it was terrific. So you, you record the record then you got on tour and supportive it, but you can't use any of the material from the record one in the shows, can you? Most good comics wouldn't,

but I've been writing on a show for a couple of months, so you will see some of that on tour. For, by the time this comes out, the tour is gonna be done. So hopefully by the time you see me in New York City doing sets, it's a whole new set. Stand up's the hardest thing to write. Like it's easier to write for other people,

but it's very hard to write for yourself. Why? I don't know. I can't tell you. I can't tell you. I've much easier time writing a script than I do stand up. I don't know. I don't know because finding your own voice is very different

than writing a late night joke. It's just, it's just really tough. It's really tough. And, and the last question from me just is, it sounds to me and again, I've gleaned this from the other folks in the entertainment industry we've had on, we've had on the show, that the lifestyle of like going from thing to thing, you never know what's going to work, most of it doesn't. That seems really stressful. You said before that meditation has been useful for some of that. Yeah, you know, I'm okay.

When I'm on stage, I get more nervous about podcasts about what I say. No, I'm talking about like the fact that shows... No, I mean, because either I... Oh, you mean like it's first TV shows Yeah, it's very stressful. Yeah, and then you go out in the road You don't know if this record's gonna hit you don't know anything. Yeah, I mean, and also now it's like everything was stream Service the amount of money you can make it's it's far less but

Yeah, it's the great unknown right, but sometimes I get you know like probably the most fun I ever had was when I was a I'm afraid I know, right? But sometimes I get, you know, like probably the most fun I ever had was when I was a night security guard at the Metropolitan Museum of Art and I was doing open mics. So it's like, you know, I'll be okay, I think, no matter what, you know, like I have a, I can't believe I'm saying that for the first time. I used to live in a lot of fear about that,

but I'll be okay if I don't make it. Like I'll be okay if this stops. Sometimes I get great relief thinking that it'll stop. And I've looked at other career options in the mental health field, and I would be able to do something else. I 100% would be able to do something else. I love to do what I do,

but I would, if there was a situation where the work would dry up, I'd be okay, I'd find something else to do. I really would. Then it gives me great peace saying that. You know, I like thinking about that too. Yeah, I mean, I think that it's always, unfortunately, it's always gonna be struggling.

You always gotta reinvent yourself, but it gets exhausting because always gotta re-event yourself. You know, that lends itself to it and heron narcissism, you know, so you always have to like, then keep that in balance, so you don't lose the people around you that loved you and supported you. I had one, it's spirit walled block.

I had one, for me is like, I don't know if we can even use it in the podcast, but this for me is like my existence in general is like, like, I, I, um, like, I remember my therapist died a couple of years ago and I was very close with me in our attack. And you know, do you remember in spirit walk, there's that death shrine kind of where you put, you can go up there and put like a picture of a note. I don't remember that. There's like, I guess it's like a Buddhist kind of. It's been a long time since that been there.

Yeah, they put up there and like, I wasn't used to a vegetarian diet. So like I had like had this note that I'd written him and I wanted to put it up and I went to the temple or whatever it was like just a series of stones and I put it under one of the rocks and I've been around people meditating. I've literally been holding in a fart for like four days

So I was like all right. Well no one's here So I put in the note for my dead therapist and then I like lit out like the biggest fart that I've ever In my entire life and then I turn around and there's a woman Holding a picture of her dead husband about to put and I'm like I just ruined this woman's Spiritual moment like she just came up to this death shrine to like find peace with her dead husband and Literally she came up to a big fat bearded guy farting like this is like so I'm never gonna be Jack cornfield But hopefully I can warn some along the way That's pretty good place to close we can we use it all in the podcast. Oh be there Before we go plug like oh, i just did that oh uh... yeah so my my album no real winners here is on

eight hundred pound grilla records um i social media social media ds germane on twitter and and and on instagram dan st germane um i'm you know check Total Marks on all things comedy. That's the All Things Comedy Network podcast. And I'm probably at that point of posted new dates. Hey, watch all the episodes of the break. I'm sorry, Michelle Wolfe on Netflix.

Because we're still waiting here about a second season. So please watch him. Tell your friends to watch him and share him. You know, even if they're really right-wing because the numbers will really help us either way. So... Excellent job. Thank you for your money. Thank you. Okay, that does it for another edition of the 10% happier podcast. If you liked it, please take a minute to subscribe, rate us.

Also, if you want to suggest topics, you think we should cover or guests that we should bring in. Hit me up on Twitter at Dan B. Harris. Importantly, you want to suggest topics, you think we should cover or guests that we should bring in, hit me up on Twitter at DanB Harris. Importantly, I want to thank the people who produced this podcast, Lauren Efron, Josh Cohan, and the rest of the folks here at ABC who helped make this thing possible. We have tons of other podcasts. You can check them out at ABCnewspodcasts.com. I'll talk to you next Wednesday. Hey, hey, prime members. You can listen to 10% happier early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus in Apple Podcasts. Before you go, do us a solid and tell us all about yourself by completing a short survey

at Wondery.com slash Survey.