Ten Percent Happier with Dan Harris - 153: Brett Eldredge, Country Star Discusses His Vulnerability

Episode Date: September 19, 2018

Platinum-selling country artist Brett Eldredge has the headlining tour, the sold-out venues, the number one hits and an Insta-famous dog named Edgar, but through all his successes, the singer/songwriter says he has long struggled with panic attacks and anxiety. Eldredge has recently picked up gratitude-journaling as a way to help him slow down, reflect and give himself a break from being so hard on himself. He puts his own vulnerabilities on vivid display in this candid interview with Dan. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

It kind of blows my mind to consider the fact that we're up to nearly 600 episodes of this podcast, the 10% happier podcast. That's a lot of conversations. I like to think of it as a great compendium of, and I know this is a bit of a grandiose term, but wisdom. The only downside of having this vast library of audio is that it can be hard to know where to start. So we're launching a new feature here, playlists, just like you put together a playlist of your favorite songs.

Back in the day, we used to call those mix tapes. Just like you do that with music, you can do it with podcasts. So if you're looking for episodes about anxiety, we've got a playlist of all of our anxiety episodes. Or if you're looking for how to sleep better, we've got a playlist of all of our anxiety episodes, or if you're looking for how to sleep better, we've got a playlist for that. We've even put together a playlist of some of my personal favorite episodes. That was a hard list to make. Check out our playlists at 10%.com slash playlist. That's 10% all one word spelled out..com slash playlist singular.

Let us know what you think. We're always open to tweaking how we do things and maybe there's a playlist we haven't thought of. Hit me up on Twitter or submit a comment through the website. Hey y'all, it's your girl, Kiki Palmer. I'm an actress, singer, and entrepreneur. I'm a new podcast, baby, this is Kiki Palmer. I'm asking friends, family, and experts,

the questions that are in my head. Like, it's only fans only bad, where the memes come from. And where's Tom from MySpace? Listen to Baby, this is Kiki Palmer on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcast. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ For ABC, this is the 10% happier podcast.

I'm Dan Harris. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ I would admit I know next to nothing, maybe no full on nothing about country music, but my now former producer, Lauren, got really excited, both of us guys, and then she got me excited when we saw that Brett Eldridge was tweeting about how much she liked the podcast and 10% happier and all that stuff. And so Brett is a really big deal in the country music world. Lauren is a huge fan.

One of the few times she's ever asked to take a picture with one of our guests. And I now a huge fan because he's just such a cool guy. And we talked a lot about things that I think have been very uncomfortable for him to talk about. And very brave of him to talk about anxiety and other very common things that many of us are dealing with, but you know, you would be surprised to hear from somebody in

the spotlight in this way talking about it, and from, you know, coming from such a macho world talking about this kind of vulnerability. I give him a lot of credit for the revelations you will hear in the course of this podcast. We also talk about how to be in a social media era with some sanity. And I've been interested lately about how to operationalize something that a lot of people talk about in a way that is often stuck in the realm of platitude, which is gratitude. And Brett has a lot of thoughts about how to actually bring gratitude into your life in a way that's not so cheesy, but actually makes a big difference.

So Brett's coming up, again, very impressed by this guy. But first let's do your voicemails. Here's number one. I dance Steve from Northern Colorado looking for tips and approach to using the app and listening to your podcast that don't short-circuit the practice that we are all seeking. The phones and multitasking nature of podcasts kind of feel our mindfulness sinks, they're like mindfulness vacuums, and I feel like I'm undoing everything I did during meditation by listening to a podcast while I'm driving to work, and even browsing through the app,

looking for my next meditation. So there's some way to approach the current environment of meditation consumption so that we're not taking one step forward and two steps back. Thank you. That is such a great question. So I'll just free associate for a minute here. As it pertains to the podcast and driving to work,

I love podcasts, so I find myself, I don't drive, but I do walk a few blocks to and from work. And I do find myself at times, let's pop it in a podcast for my walk. I don't know that I feel badly about that, but I do sometimes though if I find that I need a little bit of to calm down or to calm down from whatever excitement I or trauma that I've just experienced in the workplace or at home if my son is Thorough

Gattantrum, I will take the earbuds out and just walk mindfully, maybe doing a little bit of a noting practice. So I guess I would say the same thing for driving. I think that listening to people talk about meditation has, it's not the same as meditating, but it really informs the practice in some really important ways. It normalizes it.

It can inspire you to stay with it. It can open you up to things that you hadn't here to foreseen. So I don't consider listening to the podcast while you're driving to be multitasking in the majority of sense of multitasking. Obviously, it is on some level, but not like checking your Twitter ad mentions in the middle of a conversation with another person. That would be multitasking at its worst. So that being said, though, just like with my walks, where sometimes I do listen to podcasts,

sometimes when I need to decompress a little bit, I'll take, as I said, I'll take the ear buds out. And so I would say that sometimes when you're driving, if you find that you're feeling a little frazzled or not fully focused or a little guilty about the aforementioned multitasking, then maybe turn the podcast off. I hate to recommend turning the podcast off, but go for it. You can drive mindfully.

I'm sure you know how to do this, but you can just feel the sensations of your hands on the wheel, what it's like with your body in the chair. All of the sights and sounds around you as you drive. This, by the way, is a much safer way to drive, I would imagine. So anything as we all know can be turned into a mindfulness practice and you can do the same thing with driving. So that's the first part of your question about the podcast, listening to the podcast while driving. I just, the headline there, I don't think that's something to feel super guilty about, but if you're getting in your head about it or feeling like you need some pure form of mindfulness, then turn the podcast off and just mindfully drive. As for the shopping around in the app for your next meditation, I hear you when you say that it can

be like undoing all of the progress you might have made while with your eyes closed meditating. I think this is just another thing to bring mindfulness to. To notice as you're swiping around. What is that doing? Is your chest tightening? Is it giving you a headache at all? Do you find your breathing changes because the tool, the ability to have these great teachers on

demand who can give you these incredible guided meditation instructions is an awesome one and I'm not just saying that because it's my company or It's not my company, but I'm one of the co-founders of this company. I'm not just obviously I do have some self-interest here But even before I got into the app business, I still believed that meditation apps were a really good idea, even though they're a little bit contradictory on their face, because you're using the thing that is the engine of most of our distraction these days, and now you're going to put meditation on there, that on some level, you could get cynical about that. But I actually think that when it comes to technology, you got to fight fire with fire.

So I would argue you should keep using the app. Well, I hope you keep using the app. Everybody should, you know, to once too, should use it. But there's no question that you are using this technology, which can be the source of so much distraction. So can you bring mindfulness to that process? And I think you can. And there, in fact, is a great meditation on the app.

Actually, there's a video and a meditation from Alexis Santos about mindfully using your phone, which I think is excellent. And really, and it's not like hacks for using your phone more mindfully. It literally is the experience of using your phone can that be a mindfulness exercise in and of itself. And so I found that to be really useful.

Hopefully some of the foregoing was useful to you, but great question you really got me thinking I appreciate it. Here is voice mail number two. Hi Dan, my name is Becky and I live in Utah and I'm interested in the aspect of your panic attacks. You've talked a lot about the panic attack you had on National TV and it's in your books. So what I wonder is have you had subsequent panic attacks and how has meditation and the way that you practice Buddhism helped you to handle those panic attacks

and maybe reframe them in a way that you understand they will happen and that you can get through them. And that maybe they don't have to be debilitating or have you not had any more panic attacks? I just have wondered that aspect because I too have dealt with panic attacks. I just have wondered that aspect because I too have dealt with panic attacks and I'm trying to reframe them in a more accepting and different life. So that is my question. And thanks again for your podcast and your books. I really appreciate them. Have a good day.

Thank you, Becky. I have a lot to say on this. So I, let me, I would say the reframing that I've done around the panic attacks is, I don't know if it's meditative. Basically, the best way that in my experience, and I can only speak from my experience, to, to prevent future panic attacks is to take care of yourself. I've, I've said this before, so apologies this part for the repetition, but, I think if a panic attack is upon you, hurling yourself into the lotus position probably isn't like, for me, in the grips of panic, it doesn't seem like an option. But taking care of yourself fully, you know, so getting enough sleep, getting exercise,

eating well, all the things your parents lectured you about, doing all those basic things, actually, in my experience, and according to the doctor, who I consulted after I had the now famous panic attack on television, you know, his argument was you got to treat yourself like a thoroughbred. I, of course, quite famously thought he was telling me I was a stallion, but no, he meant thoroughbred. And, you know, thoroughbreds are finicky and delicate creatures, and they need to be treated with a lot of care.

And you need to treat yourself if you're having panic attacks with a lot of care, because that will reduce the chances of having future panic attacks. Now, there are also medical ways to deal with it. Beta blockers for people who have panic attacks in a performance setting, so in front of a live audience or on live television, beta blockers I found can be incredibly effective and there's a lot of evidence that they're used quite widely by people who have to get up and give talks or even perform

surgery, I've heard. So that can, that can, beta blockers are non-narcotic and can really prevent any, you may have the psychological feelings of nervousness, but they, they prevent the physiological ramifications. So your heart won't be racing. It literally puts a cap on how fast your heart can go as I understand it. So you can get pretty nervous, but you won't have this spiral of your heart's racing so fast that then your mind gets so freaked out that your heart starts racing faster and your mind gets even more freaked out and then you're in a full-blown panic attack.

So that's the reframing. The reframing for me is about seeing the panic as a provocation to sort of holistic self-care. Meditations, in my view, in my experience, another form of preventive medicine. So do I still get panic attacks? I haven't had a full blown one. I don't think I've had a full blown one since the mid-2000s, but I've had little tastes of it coming on. Once was on a subway, maybe five, six, seven years ago, in New York City, and I just got off. I've had other moments of feeling panic

in airplane bathrooms when they're really small. I have really intense claustrophobia, but in both occasions I was able to kind of extricate myself from the situation so it didn't escalate. And I've had a few moments on television where I felt like the initial tingling of panic were coming on and it didn't either because I had taken a beta blocker or because no, probably because I take a beta blocker. Although I do think there are some, you know, I'm not understanding what I said at the beginning about how when a panic attack comes on, you, you know, throwing yourself into the lotus position is probably not going to work. I do

find that the, at the, I have noticed that if I feel the initial tingling, if I am mindful of them and turn into it rather than trying to run away, so just to investigate mindfully what, how the panic is showing up in my body that that is useful, but of course I'm doing all these other things too. So I don't know, back in the battle days when I was not taking care of myself and had a little robust little side, medit, cocaine habit and didn't have meditation in my life and wasn't getting enough sleep, I don't know that teaching me how to meditate in and of itself would have been enough. I think that it would have really, I think what's also required is the self-care that I talked

about earlier. Long-rambling answer, but thank you for the question and I'm sorry you're dealing with panic attacks. The first thing I would recommend is really taking care of yourself because I think that boosts the odds that you will not have them in the first place and then I think seeing a medical professional because there are lots of things that can also be done medically and psychologically both from a therapy standpoint and from a pill you might take that could be useful. And then finally I do think meditation is helpful as

well but it's both primarily in my experience on a preventive level, and yes, a little bit on the sort of when you're freaking out, can this slow it down level two, although panic is so strong, I sometimes worry that telling people that they can meditate their way out of a panic attack is a fool's errand, at least for somebody at my low level of meditation practice. So thank you, and best of luck to you. All right, Brett Eldridge, the guy's a big star in the country world has dealt, and I think you will hear him talk quite forthrightly and bravely about his experiences with anxiety

and what it's like to be in such a competitive business and can you feel happy for people who have hit songs more than you do, and this is just a wide-ranging and really interesting conversation. And such a pleasant surprise because I knew so little about him coming in and I came out very, very impressed as I suspect you will be. So here's Brett.

Nice to meet you. Gonna meet you. Well, I guess we met over Twitter. Yeah, we met over Twitter. What's the story there? How did that? I came from Rahal Gai Kenae. Well, I guess we met over Twitter. Yeah, we met over Twitter. What's the story there? How did that happen? I can't remember how we got connected. Well, I've really got on a self-betterment after over the last couple of years,

I've tried to incorporate reading. And then I was like, because there's so many stresses in what I do, I was like, okay. And I kind of got overwhelmed completely by all the things you have to do as a person in the spotlight. Which I know that you can relate to because I kind of got drawn to the mindfulness world. And then I got into it, started to kind of open up about it and telling. I wanted to share my story because of how much I have had struggle with it and still at times but way better than I was

To let everybody know it's the most human thing. There is to experience in that that What's the most human things? just stress yeah, just stress and worries and and the all that kind of crazy man as I go through your mind of just things that you have to do and pleasing people and all these different things and and and so I I dove into trying to figure out how to get through that without medications or anything like that just and that's how I found the temperature heavier app and stuff like that and really sat in the back of my bus and meditated and tried to figure out what the heck I was

doing and just all these different things. So anyways, I think I started to talk about that and some other places and podcasts and stuff like that and some people started seeing that somehow we got connected. Maybe somebody tweeted me and said, yeah, someone tweeted you that you should totally do Timbers a happier Podcast and I was like oh hell yeah, or and then you said sounds like you're perfect for the podcast And I was like hell yes, let's go. So here we are. It was exciting for me when I think I don't remember the exact order of operations

But it was something effective somebody a fan of both of ours said hey You should have this guy on the show, and we're both in the tweet, and I said, and one of us replied, and the fact that you replied was very exciting to me, and that you knew anything about meditation, or you didn't even heard of me, I was like, oh my God, this is amazing. Some country guy knows what meditation is.

It's great. I'm so excited. I have a million questions for you. Yeah, bring it on, man. Can you tell me about about you talked a little bit about the stresses, but looking at you from 30,000 feet, I mean, you're young, you seem very healthy, good looking guy, phenomenally successful, way taller than I want you to be, intimidating to me. What is the

what is to be stressed about? What is there to not like? You know I came from a warrior, my mother's a warrior, her mother was a warrior, you know, and so I naturally had that and I'm very close to my mother, I love her death, and both of my parents, but I learned wearing from early age. And then, but I never really thought about it. I think I was pretty, I was stressed out about stuff as a kid, I would kind of have like panic attack kind of stuff, but didn't even know what that was.

Real full on panic attacks. So a little bit, I mean, I would get like short of breath kind of stuff and my arms would go numb or something. Oh wow. When I'm laying in bed at night and I never figured out what it was. So it wasn't even, it wasn't like you were being chased

by a tiger. Yeah. Is you were the tiger and the person being chased. Like you were breaking yourself out just sitting in bed. Yeah, just like with with worry stuff. And then you go to college and, you know, I'm partying and having and then you know you go to college and You know I'm party and having fun. You know doing the college thing and I remember times when I'd go to a party

And I would be breaking into sweats and like just trenchous was like I just don't roll with me like you know and and would that be like talking to somebody It would be talking to somebody like trying to try to put the moves on somebody or no no totally just like at a out of party. I'm sure it was a social thing. And and most people think I'm super outgoing. I am and especially in the limelight, but I'm also a very kind of introverted, um, hideout on my own kind of guy too. So I know how to turn it on. It's not like I'm being a fake assistant. I get excited about being in front of the camera and all my worries building up to it make me freaked out about it. But when I get there, I'm,

I'm, you know, I could be a superhero up there once I get there. You know, I feel like if I get a crowd or I know, you know, I'm in my element, in my flow of what I do, I turn into the best version of feeling alive of myself. And so it was, it's all the psyche going up to it.

And you know, if you say it with music now, it's, you get on a bus that, if you're riding the bus, you get on the bus at 11 o'clock at night, you ride through the night, and you get to the venue at 8 a.m. 7 a.m. And then you don't play til 10 o'clock. So the mind games go through the day if you're really disthinking about okay, I gotta do all this I gotta do all this. Oh, yeah, and then eventually I got a play show and I would get to the point where I'm not like I'm not stage I don't have stage fright really, but I would build myself up to thinking that like someone was going to happen to me when I was on the stage or like I was going to have a panic attack on stage or I was like I'm like

they're going to see me as a as a fool or whatever I'm a they're going to see me fail and I'm such a self critic that I want my vocals to be perfect and you know and so I put so much pressure on myself going up to that. And about two years ago or so and my fans don't even hardly talk much about this stuff but my fans didn't really know but I would I remember one time I almost passed out for I went on stage. I mean, I had to sit down like, all this like crazy music's going on. And like to, you know, you build energy before you run out there on stage and hey, the star is here to sing songs for you,

whatever, and I remember I was like, I don't know what's wrong with me, but I'm freaked out and I'm short of breath and I'm seeing stars and I have to sit down the side stage and then I get out there and eventually it's okay. You know? It's scary though. I know that feeling really well.

It's really scary. And so I got to the point where, and I had tried medications and stuff to the years and for some people that worked for me, it totally was not my thing. What about it? It would give me I think I think because my my body so on edge I know my body pretty well. I'm very health conscious probably overly and I would if I would ever take a medication or try something to help

you know Relax myself. I it would make I would notice it and then I would build in this, you know myself, it would make, I would notice it and then I would build in this, you know, by hands going numb or shorter, it would be like the opposite of what I wanted to do. I see, because you would feel the effects. Yes. And then you manifest it into more. And so it was that, you know, because I was, do you play in a hundred and some shows a year or so?

I mean, one, I was a point of my point my career was playing like half the year I was playing shows and that doesn't count the travel. And so, you know, so I was going through stuff like that and I got to the point where I'm an occasion I work in what the world, what can I do to figure this out? And I've come from a town called Paracelinoid, which is 8,000 people. You didn't know anything about therapy. If you did know anything about therapy, it was weird or something that crazy people go to or something. That's what... And so, for me, I didn't even know any of that kind of stuff. So I started to really start reading up and trying to figure out ways and seeing that, okay, there's a lot of people that go to therapy and then I'll go to do that. I'm like, this is amazing, because you have somebody unbiased to talk to you about it as well, other than just a friend. And so I started doing stuff like that.

I just tried to better myself so I could give my best stuff on stage and then I got into my fullness and I really think, as you've said, and as I've seen, there's no way to become a master at it. But, and I still think I suck at it a lot of the time, but I've found, I have found it helpful in a lot of ways if I really just commit myself to it to chilling myself out for a little while that I can handle this stuff, you know, and actually enjoy it again. Because I went through a stage where I was so hyped up about it that I wasn't able to really enjoy what I love to do, why I moved to Nashville and why wanted to dream to get songs in the radio and then I got songs for radio and I loved that in the beginning and then all of a sudden I just got all these pressures and I was I'm I'm never

a guy that like went and drank because I was pressured. It was not early. Like that, it would just take it all to myself. And I would just live in my own trapped box and no one would know. And that's the other thing. I'm very good at hiding it. And I think a lot of people are because you don't really think, you don't look around and you think that person's having, it's just totally freaking out of the inside right now. You just seem smile or maybe they were a little guarded or whatever.

But it's so I started to see that it's a normal thing. And then we had, I've had so many unbelievably successful and famous people sitting in the chair you're sitting in right now saying saying very similar things, that you're just at the point when, this is what you're saying, you're just at this point where everything's coming, all your dreams are coming true. You're killing it at the thing you were born to do. And why is it suck so hard?

What is wrong with you, right? That's what you're saying. Yeah. And then you keep saying that to yourself and then it makes it worse. But you did a wise thing, and especially given the fact that you weren't programmed to do what you did. Yes. And that's the point. That's a great point is you get, I mean, a human's not supposed to really experience this kind of thing. Well, no, but I mean, I mean, even more, I mean, it isn't even bigger compliment,

which is that I grew up in a touchy, feely liberal household in Massachusetts. My parents were doctors. If I had a problem, I knew to go to a shrink. My parents had made a shrink when I was a little boy. So I had all the, and I still did every, all the dumb stuff everybody knows I did. So I had access to the resources. I just, you'd had no, it wasn't on your radar, right? And in the way it was for me. And yet you did the reading, you did the research, you found these things. That is pretty incredible, I think. Yeah, well, thank you. I'm still, and I'm still, you know, I would say I'm definitely even more than 10% in a better place of where I was than,

but I try to find that magic of what I always compare it to like going to Disneyland when you're a kid and like with music. I'm always trying to find the magic of, you know, when you go to a kid you go to Disneyland and you're like, this is the most magical place in the world. Or anywhere, like to some really cool place. And then you put it by the curtains and you start looking at everything and it's not exactly the same. For me, it's like when I got, I moved in Nashville, you grow up, you move in Nashville, you get excited, these things start happening and then you actually get into the depth of

the business and you get the depth of everything and it starts to, you know, wear your soul a little bit, you know. And so for me, I really had to try to figure out how to deal with the things I don't love about it also to find, so I'm always trying to go back to what, you know, I'm always trying to go back to Disneyland and find that magic again, you know. And so, and I'm slowly getting there again. I'm slowly like having fun during the day.

I'm having fun at backstage, like everybody's backstage. Maybe having a drink for the show and dancing around and then just laughing and playing dodgeball backstage because a lot of people don't realize how long the day it's gonna be backstage. I mean, or wherever you are. If you go to Amphitheater, you're just in the middle of a field sometimes, or you're in the middle of a

gigantic campground and you're kind of limited to what you do. So how do I get out and do stuff and not sit here and worry about really no reason to worry, but find things to worry about or go out and get into it. And so, really no reason to worry, but find things to worry about or go out and get into it. So, you know, over the last two years, I would say, I've really dove into that, go hiking and I got a dog, which is amazing. That helps. So, I'm going to, I'm growing, I would say. I want to talk about you, Mark. I want to talk about your dogs. I hear the dog is famous. Yes. Which is weird in itself, but yes. So I'm an animal lover. But on the disenchantment that you, on Disneyland going sour, I say that with some hesitation,

because I know how I'm talking about Disney here. That's why I tried to, I remembered that. And I was like, oh, well, I love Disneyland. I was nothing against Disneyland. What did you see when you got successful that was disenchanting for you? I don't know. I don't know if you can talk about this

without getting yourself in trouble? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think I'll get myself in trouble. I think a lot of ours deal with this. So you kind of, you put yourself, everything is in comparison in a lot of ways. You know, this person's got this going in their career. You know, it's to keeping up with the Jones' kind of thing of this person got this going

on and then it's built like, okay, we got to do this to catch that or go ahead. Why is Kenny Chesney selling so many records that? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, which I love Kenny. I don't know anything about country. But yeah, but that's what it is It's like this with this and then people will get kind of sour about it and say that's about this and and it would just be like Whoa, I just want to like I just want to make music. I don't want to I don't really want to feel that and then you feel that when you're going to You know an event or whatever and then it makes you insecure because you're and I

I mean I'm having securities or whatever. It's not like I'm not comfortable with myself completely, but you know, then you would go and be like, all these different artists at this thing. And you, you feel like, oh, that person's, that person's judging me or they think they're cooler than me, even though they might not. And I, and I figured out that that's almost never the case. And it's just, they're in the same place as you. That's right. But you don't think about that.

And I had this experience with my, what the good friend of mine, we did a podcast together, Bobby Bones, he's a great radio guy. Well, I think Bobby Bones is also coming on this podcast. Oh, he is. Well, then he could talk to you about. He's an editor. He is. Yes.

So we became good friends, but there was a while where I think we both think, thought we hated each other or something. We're not hated each other, but just, you know, you get in this place and I think we felt like, I remember after we did the podcast together and we both kind of saw how similar we are and how we're, you know, we put up a lot of walls and do all these different things. And we had on this podcast, we realized he texted me outdoors and said, I think we realized how much alike we actually are instead of not alike.

You know, because if you feel some weird way, oh, they think of this thing about me. And then you're thinking they're thinking about that about you. And then they're thinking the same thing. And then I'll send you a bill in more into something that was never really even a thing. And it's just interesting. It's the business does that a little bit. This happens in news too. Really?

Big time. Absolutely. I find the, I've had a very happy life, the least happy moments of my life or when I'm comparing myself to other people in the news business. And why can't I just be happy when they're successful? Yeah. And I will say that I've continued to struggle on lots of ways and fall short in lots of ways, but the one thing I've had some success on in recent years

is actually dropping a lot of that. Yeah. And just feeling good when people are... When they succeed. Because vastly exceeding anything I've done. Yeah, because we were all just, you know, dorks on our home town at one point, and then we get that, and I'll,

I mean, we all have chased down this thing and somehow through hard work and some luck and whatever it is, we've got here, and you should just be happy with this, people are just like, I feel like the world of being in a spot like creates this weird animal that's that and and so I and and so that thing would probably really open I think my eyes and in our we've became a lot closer now and and I still have nothing against him at all and he doesn't and we both know that and we're both like wow we can actually

we can not only just be friends, but we can tell this story to other people. And I think that's awesome. And so now it's became a thing for me where I'm so, I'm like always looking for a retreat to go on and different things to try to find ways to what kind of retreats. Mindfulness or really? Have you been done one? I haven't because I, for me, I look at them like, is this gonna be the most crazy,

hippie experience I'm on the live tour? I'm like, is this gonna be too much for me? You know, because I love mindfulness and all that, but I don't know what I'm walking into and those things, which is also like a wall, like you have to kind of jump into, get out of your comfort zone, but I never know the right exact ones.

But I'll be your concierge. Okay, we'll talk offline. I'll be your concierge. We'll talk offline. Yes. Well, that's what, you know, I want to become a thing where it becomes, I don't think you're enough people talk about this stuff. And it's like I was saying earlier, it's the most normal thing. I mean, everybody has different levels of it, but everybody has anxiety.

And everybody could be, I mean, if I could benefit from something I knew nothing about three years ago, then maybe you saw somebody in a movie humming and making some noise and they're meditating whatever and you're like, that's weird. You know, to all of a sudden, everybody. It's been portrayed in this weird way, right?

But I think it's very important what you're doing on two levels. One, it's really important for somebody in your world to get up and say, anxiety's real, I've gone through it. It's okay if you've gone through it too. You're not defective. The brain is an organ like any other organ. We're not embarrassed to say we got a heart problem. So A, and then B, and we're going to talk about meditation. I hope in a big way in a second, to say that you're interested in meditation, I hope in a big way in a second, to say that you're interested in meditation, you can reach millions of people that I could never reach.

Because they don't care about me, but they care about you. And that, that I think is extremely beneficial because you're normalizing a secular, simple exercise for the brain that can help all of these people. And that is, I just, I love it. Yes. Celebrity feuds are high stakes. You never know if you're just gonna end up on page six or Du Moir or in court.

I'm Matt Bellesai. And I'm Sydney Battle, and we're the host of Wundery's new podcast, Disantel, where each episode we unpack a different iconic celebrity feud. From the buildup, why it happened, and the repercussions. What does our obsession with these feuds say about us? The first season is packed with some pretty messy pop culture drama, but none is drawn out in personal as Britney and Jamie Lynn Spears.

When Britney's fans form the free Britney movement dedicated to fraying her from the infamous conservatorship, Jamie Lynnins lack of public support. It angered some fans. A lot of them. It's a story of two young women who had their choices taken away from them by their controlling parents, but took their anger out on each other. And it's about a movement to save a superstar, which set its sights upon anyone who failed to fight for Britney.

Follow Dissentel wherever you get your podcast. You can listen ad free on Amazon Music or the Wondery app. anyone who failed to fight for Brittany. Follow Dysentel wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on Amazon Music or the Wondering app. Well, you give me the tools a lot of them lately. So, I pretty sure. So when did the meditation thing start for you? You know, I'd say in the last year and a half, two years, I opened up the idea and I can't remember the exact first way.

My brother told me about the Timberstown happier book, and then so I always knew about it, but I only got into reading in the last, I mean, I've tried to read through the years, but I'm a audio guy or I'm a visual guy in a way of movies or whatever through music. So I hadn't read the book or anything, but then I had heard, then I had saw about the app. And that was all around the time of, okay, what can I do? Medication doesn't work for me.

I know I don't have to worry. There's plenty of people that have found ways to cope with this and move on from it. And I've heard a lot of success stories. This whole mindfulness keeps showing up a lot more than it ever did in media. Some and people are sitting there, CEOs and then all their staff, you know, and major companies to do mindfulness. And it's not some weird thing.

Just try it. And so I got the app and I started to follow. I started with the very basic stuff because I knew nothing. And I really connected with Joseph Goldstein. Yeah. And when I saw Joseph Goldstein and you guys talking, there's something, because you picture meditators in all these different ways when you don't know a thing about it. And he's just this, you know,

so a guy, he's just a regular guy. He seems like it could be a doctor, but you know, he's so intelligent. You know, I like a doctor's, I'm like, that guy's like the smartest guy in the world. And so like I trust this guy already just by seeing him and hearing him talk and then he just had a comforting way of talking. And then I would just start with the whether it was at home and I wouldn't

do it every day. I still have trouble. I'm trying to make myself make it a habit every single day. I do it several days a week. That's still pretty good by the way. Yeah. I mean, I would like I'm trying to forget ways to implement the habit. It's very hard for somebody like you because you don't have a regular schedule. And your life is very chaotic, not in a, I'm not saying that in a judgmental way. It's chaotic and by design, like you're a touring musician. Yeah. One day you might be shooting a music video, another day you're in the studio, another day you're going along I'm out on the play show.

And that does make it very challenging. So I would give yourself a break and we can talk about ways to help establish it as a regular habit. But you know that it's hard for everybody to make healthy habits. But it's even harder for you because your schedule is so erratic. Mm-hmm. Well, and that goes back to myself of being so hard on myself, like being like, you didn't meditate today, and then which is something really dumb to like, get really hard on myself,

but I'll find a way to do it. But, but it's just another thing to be mindful of. Yeah, yeah. It's just another thing to notice. That's a good point. And, and I'm just channeling Joseph here who is a truly brilliant human being. Yes, it is. One of my favorite people has ever walked on the planet. Yeah. And I'm just channeling Joseph here who is a truly brilliant human being.

One of my favorite people has ever walked on the planet. It's all just coming and going. Everything, all these neurotic obsessions that are flitting through our brains, all these desires, we have all these random thoughts. They're just mental stuff. And you can just step back and step out of the traffic a little bit of your mind in other words and just watch the individual cars go by right and that's just a waterfall. Yes, we're step out of the waterfall and be like, all right, that was just self-judgment.

Boom. I don't need to be sucked up into it. It's hard to do, but you get better and better over time. You're a year and a half in. This is a skill you're building, just the way you learn how you learn music and you mastered it. I don't know if this is meditation. You said before, I feel like I suck at it. Let me say when I hear people say that they feel like they suck at it

tells me one thing that they're doing it right. Because that's what this game is. It is quote unquote failing over and over and over and over. But then you get good at the failing, right? And the getting good at the failing means just not being yourself up too much. And so you will get better over time at seeing whatever's coming up, self laceration, anxiety, desire and not getting so owned by it. And then making a wise decision of like, okay, no,

maybe there is a reason to okay, no, maybe there is a reason to worry right now or maybe there isn't or maybe this thing that I want I don't need or maybe I know I actually should chase it. And then your life just becomes sainter. And so you are just building that muscle over time. Those muscles over time. It's really cool. It's so cool.

And nobody tells us this. I know. It's so weird. I know everybody's really cool. It's so cool and nobody tells us this. I know so weird I know everybody's honest something It's gotta keep shattering to the rooftops. I think it's it's gonna become a very normal thing Sorry becoming a bit. It's gonna become a if I had this experience. I know I can I'm gonna tell everybody because I I would have never thought I'd be doing this stuff But I just didn't know hang about it, but I'm so glad I found out about it. How would you say things are going for you now?

Because you had a pretty deep hole, you were in a pretty deep hole, it sounds to me, and you're working your way out of it, but I would imagine you said you were more than 10%. Yeah, yeah, I think I have my days like everybody, but I was a point where I've, you know, I have my days like everybody, but I, I mean, I was, I was a point where I I remember I had it. I was I was getting ready to

Accept an award for a number one song. I had like number one parties with the common and Industries there and I had nothing to be nervous about. I was winning award Which later ended up being the most played song in a country music that year. It's called Be To The Music. And we were in this office building, BMI, and Nashville, and they're about to answer what I'm saying, side stations, all my like, I should be the happiest guy ever but my vision, I'm like my vision's blurred, I have the worst temple headaches and it became a very physical thing for me. And I would always be searching to ask other people

like you just like, I'd always be asking other people because everybody's body takes it different. I'm always looking for somebody else that's experiencing the same thing for me. It's because you feel like you're all along. I mean, you're sitting with somebody who's experiencing the exact thing. And still, I still who's experienced the exact thing and still I still get it Oh, yeah, oh, I still get it too, and that's the thing I

I mean I can't tell you how many times I went to the doctor thing and there's something really wrong I mean, I mean who knows how many trips I went I've been the yard several times and I haven't done any of that and Ever since I kind of got all this like you're okay. You you're healthy. I'm a, I exercise a lot of eat well, take care of myself. I mean, of course there's always something I can have too, but I know that I'm okay. If I have, if I'm having, I have, this is me catching myself, I would usually say I have trouble sleeping,

but then I'm telling myself that I'm trouble sleeping. So I'll catch it myself being like, if I say, therefore I am, you know, have trouble sleeping. I struggle with it too actually. Yeah, I have trouble sleeping sometimes. And so, and I, I mean, there's a point where I have a whole lot of trouble sleeping in, I'd sleep an hour maybe on the bus, if that,

sometimes like not. That's not enough No, and and I still I still I'm sure that but I have the thing where I can't quite settle in And I like even last night and I Get these feelings that like like my heart that sounds something your brain isn't completely awake But it's not completely sleep. There's something. There's a name for it But I still get that kind of uneasy time. That's one of the hardest times for me. Is it not? You know, we have a bunch of new

meditations on the app for sleep. You can actually just pipe those into your headphones. Yes. A lot of people find it very helpful. I do the melt in the sleep. Actually, I've been in that. Melt in to sleep. Yeah. That's one of the meditations. Yeah. And I've tried some of that. And what I have to trouble with is I try to get myself away from my phone at night. So I'm trying to, and that's the hardest part I've figured out. Some people don't have that same problem. But I do. I do.

Breaking up with your phone is another, you know, thing we've talked about a lot on the podcast. And it's that's tricky. But I mean, you can always create exceptions. Yeah. Well, and I, that's a whole another thing I could dive into for an hour and talk about is, is how much I would love to not have that ball and chain right there that is a phone. He's pointing to his phone. Yes. Well, no, no, talk, talk about that. So why is that why is that I mean I I Grieve you I find the phone incredibly stressful, but why is it stressful for you?

This is coming from a guy that's very Very active on social media or has been I mean your dog is active. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, it's I mean I And it's a great way to connect and and some ways but I got to the point where I was doing it so much. And I was being called the Snapchat King of Country Music and like all these weird things. I was like, what, what does that mean? What is, what do I really want to be that? What it was was I was, you know, I connect. It's like getting in front of camera. I get excited about that. I light up and so I would I there's things I love about it But then I got to the point where it became a word. I have to get up every morning and sing to my phone because I was doing these things called bedhead jams and I would have to okay

I'm spinning in an hour trying to forget what song is saying and In my hair is all I mean mean I don't like get myself ready I look like complete you know I heard there were you know but it became a thing it was real it's raw it's and and I loved doing it and and and then it got to the point where it was just when I wouldn't do it then people get upset that I hadn't done it and I was like why why then I was getting more stress and then I saw the play show. So I was giving a lot of myself before I even got to give myself the time I want to give myself the most, which is on stage. And so, so I've always had a thing with the social media, I'm always checking it,

and you're also looking for gratification, and you're looking for people talking about your song or the love. But we also, and so I started seeing that I was looking at it and I still, I mean, this is still a problem. It's better than it was in ways, but you almost search out things and tell you see something that somebody said bad about you or something. And I never call it the haters out. I mean, like that. Sometimes when somebody never called the haters out, really not that. Sometimes when somebody sends me a mean tweet, I like it.

Yeah, I was like, I do. That's something that people don't like that. That's a good idea, I'm gonna say that. But that's that. So for me, I've tried to change it a little bit. Like I do these gratitude journals, I do it in the morning and at night. Instead of the bedhead jumps. Yeah, like, oh, do it in the morning at night. Instead of the bedhead, Jim.

Yeah, like, and it's not every day. And I don't want to get myself into thinking that has to be every day, but what I will share, like literally, I'll just write what I'm grateful for. And I do the five minute journal. And you post it. And then I post it. And I keep it raw and I call out some of my Problems or whatever I'm going through that point or an affirmation of you know, his affirmation is an event And I tell I tell myself I'm gonna be a badass today

And and then I'm gonna do great things and whatever you know, and so that's what I'm trying to shift my social media to more But the thing I don't like is just going and checking it all the time because it just, it wears me out. It really does. And I'm kind of probably making fans mad at it at the same time, but I also got to worry about myself in a way in these kinds of situations where sometimes I just want to, I want to get a flip phone and I thought I'm thinking about doing that for at least a month and I just want to experience it or or Use the flip phone most of the time but it allow yourself say one hour a day where you social media I also heard an interesting I struggle with a lot of the things you're talking about and I don't much lower level Yeah, because I don't have millions of fans, but I I

Still find myself looking at social media in ways that I don't I millions of fans, but I still find myself looking at social media in ways that I don't, I know, are not good for me, and definitely a waste of my time. I heard an interesting idea. There's this great writer, his name is Sean Acor, A-C-H-O-R. He wrote a book called The Happiness Advantage, and I haven't had him on the show, but I will at some point, and I was, he was giving a speech before me at a Disney event, actually, the other day. And he said he changed his approach to social media where he doesn't check his own posts,

to see how many he likes to, or all he does on social media, if he's gonna check it, is like other people's stuff. Really? Which I thought, it's really an act of, it's basically a practice of generosity in some ways. And he said it changed. Loving kindness reversal, it's really an active it's basically a practice of generosity Yeah, and he said a change loving kindness reversal. That's right. That's right. Sharon Salisberg I'm That's right is going on on social media. That's cool. Yeah, that's a great idea actually

And then you actually get excited for what is going on in other people's when it's not like you don't you know Care what it's going on other people's world, but it is a very me me me other people's, when it's not like you don't care what other people's world, but it is a very me, me, me thing is social media because you're getting all these things that come in and you're trying to keep up with those. And then you don't take the time as much to look at all the other posts because, and that's a great, that's a great way to look at it. I mean, I'm not as connected because I'm older than you. I'm not as connected to sort of, in some ways, to the importance of social media for somebody in your position or frankly for somebody in any position. But I guess

I would hope that and I mean kind of assume that your fans will understand you're dialing back on social media because you want to take care of yourself so that you can do what they originally love me for making great music and then performing said music on stage. Exactly. And it's really interesting. Since I've started talking about this stuff, my fans have been, I've seen an outcry from my fans of saying, I deal with all this stuff. And I'm so grateful that you're saying this because you know you think they are going to be pissed and then I have backed off and I think it'll still be a thing for me for a while and it's not like I'm quitting social media. Now maybe one day maybe we all will maybe

I mean it's never going to go away but who knows what's going to become but what I do think is I think a lot of people will see a better me on that stage. And it's happy when they see me in an interview or wherever I am. I think that checking it and really looking at myself, what, what, what, use it for the good things and then just. That's right. It's, we don't have to be anti-technology. Yeah. So you don't have to not ever use your phone or not.

It's going to be there. I mean, yeah, that's right. We live in an era where the phone social media necessarily you can create practices so that you do it better just the way you create a meditation practice just the way you've created a music practice. Yeah, these are all things we do in order to improve ourselves. Well, nighttime is I think because we're all kind of supposed to be winding down at night, but nighttime is one of the most popular times. I think because we're all kind of supposed to be winding down at night. But at night time is one of the most popular times I think a lot of people that are looking at their phones.

And they have it right there in their bed and I've been guilty of that until the last year I put it on the other side of the room. And then if I'm using a night, I'm milked into sleep or whatever. But I still, you know, up to an hour before bed or even 30 minutes before I hit the melt into sleep or whatever meditation or do my journaling. I'm still looking at my phone. So these blinking lights and, you know, it's not a natural thing. I don't want to let the gratitude thing slip thing slip by because I actually think, you know, we've been talking about practices like I would say seeing a therapist something I myself do

is a practice. These are things you do. Happiness is not achieved in pulling just one lever. So it's not enough just to meditate or just to be a country music star. There are lots of things you have to do. Gratitude is one of those things that can be a little cheesy. Yeah, oh yeah. But there's a lot of the Sean Acor,

the guy who I just mentioned before wrote this book and I saw him speak. I was a lot about the evidence for gratitude and what it can do for you. And so I just, what is it done for you? But think just that, has it done for you? But think just that because it's not like I, it's not like I'm not happy, I just get so into trying to be the best at what I do. What I, you know, we're all trying to strive for these giant

goals. And do sacrifice a lot of what you love to do that. And there's good things about that. And there's bad things. What I found was when I started to not love it as much because I wasn't taking the time to look at it. Wow, I've got six number one songs or whatever. And there are a lot of the times where I was moving so fast I didn't take the time to even, I mean it's incredible to get that so hard to get a song up a chart period. Now you got six of them. Well, you're always looking at that next one. You know, you're always looking for, I was staying on the side stage at the Grand Aloppery and Whisper and Bill Anderson, amazing songwriter, country music legend. Tell me he said one thing I regretted,

and it was this exact same thing. And this is well before phones and any of that, but it's just career advice that I got was I wish I would have took the time and not always look towards that next thing, and really, you know, there's so many amazing things going on, and I was looking for that next thing. And what's the next hit, and what, you know, and then then you're never really living in that moment at all. And I was very guilty of that. And so I've always remembered that, but I still did the other. And so gratefulness, gratitude journal, or any kind of gratitude, I don't even know gratitude. I mean, I know what the word gratitude means, but I didn't know what the practice was.

I actually, the first time I ever heard kind of about it actually being a thing was I was in New York, and I was up early for something. I think I had some media that day, and I went and I was walking to get like a assay bowl or something. And one of Shansol's big gratitude pieces on the app actually popped up and and so I'm walking on it's a it's a wall walking Lemon kindness or or or it was let me kind of something I did a gratitude when I think it was I can't remember

Anyways, I learned about it and I heard about it and I'd read about it and then I was then I saw about journaling about it and actually writing it into okay take the moment to write it down and write it down. And the simplicity of holy hell, I'm actually alive. I wake up and I'm alive and I see the sunshine and or whatever. The sun even had to be shining. I'm alive. And instead of just going on autopilot. And so that, or, hey, I'm getting ready to, I'm getting ready to go on Good Morning America for the fifth time today. I can't, I remember when it was like, I was trying to get to the first one now,

you know, or whatever. And it's like starting to ride those things like that is like, oh, you're really doing all those things that you try and even when none of that gets happening There's still things to be grateful for That the warmth of your bed like or whatever and so I and I'm still that's still a new thing for me in the last six months Of of making into that but I definitely see how I try to forget ways to get more creative with it in my mind of just saying Great friends or you know know I've got friends that

care about me but you know I'm always trying to grow in that but I think it really is a powerful thing to write it down and then that formations things are a great thing too. I think of kind of giving yourself confidence of hey I really can do this and I don't have to be so hard on myself. I'm not going to be so hard on it. You know and different things like that. I think those are tools that I've definitely but great but gratitude just being grateful for For things that you have I think is a whole another whole another thing. I think it's really helpful It's incredibly helpful. We have this bias toward negativity. Yeah, I think it's probably hardwired into us because you know We had to be looking out for threats all the time, we were living on the savannas back in the day.

And it is so easy to take things for granted. And it's true for everybody, not just somebody who's a country music star, it was news anchor, it's true for all of us. And these practices, which again, I think we both agree can be a little sappy there. There's, as I understand it, a lot of science to suggest it works. And, you know, the aforementioned Sean Acor, who I keep bringing up, who I should get him on the pot. I really get that.

I was talking about the fact. I had started doing this little practice before I went to bed every night of just listening the things I'm grateful for. And it's always the same stuff. My son, my wife, my job, the whole 10% happier thing. And just I would just go down the list. And often it would put me to sleep, which is nice. But Sean said, and I think this is what the power of this journal that you're doing, actually the trick is to find something new every day.

And I've just in the last couple of weeks since I heard Sean speak speak been doing that. And that just really forces you to look at what's new. And I think that in and of itself is very powerful. Yeah, and you can't let your judging mind say that's stupid. You know, and that's how I was and that's that's my thing is like, okay, just, you know, I've got these shoes that I can walk down the street and there's a lot of people, you know, not everybody gets to have that and I feel grateful for that. And then just, I can, I can, there's so many different things as you can. And it would otherwise never notice. Never notice. I mean, I was sitting in a meeting yesterday with my colleagues at Nightline, which is one

of the shows I do here, and I just listened to people, they were saying all these really smart things, and we're working on this awesome project. And I just remember thinking, I'm really lucky to get to work with these people. And I don't know that I would have thought that, you know, or I might have thought it, but I would have let it slip by. And now I'm just learning to highlight that stuff. I think it also just makes you a better person to be around. For sure.

Speaking of things to be grateful for, Edgar is the dog. Yes, yes. Tell me about the dog and why he's become so famous. Well, by the way, this is, this is, is, it seems to me if I heard your story quickly, we could call this an animal practice, because you got the dog as a way to sort of make yourself happier. Yes, I had heard, I think I was in therapy or something,

and this wasn't the main reason I got him. I always wanted a dog and my parents hated dogs growing up or they just, that thought they were messy and smelly or whatever. And I helped raise my uncle's dog as a kid. And so I always wanted a whimeriner. And so he's a whimeriner and a Vista mix. Well, so I always wanted to get one.

So eventually when I got to be a grown up and have my own place, I was gonna get a dog. So I had heard it, anyways, going back to, I heard it and I think it was therapy that people plants and pets or something or good things for you, so like going to connect with a friend, plants going out and nature pets, the unconditional love that you get from a pet. And so I'd heard those, but two of them was like, I could really use, I might play in front of 30,000 people

and then I walk off, and this is really hard to explain to people because it's such a weird experience, but walking out stage and going under your bus and you're by yourself after having the most insane adrenaline rush ever, everybody's going crazy, everybody's going crazy, going under your bus and you're by yourself after having the most insane adrenaline rush ever. Everybody's going crazy, everybody's going crazy. Sweaty, walk off, walk through the backstage, people giving you high fives, and then climbing up on your bus, and it's just you and the walls of a tour bus.

What about the band members? They're usually tearing down, or they're doing different things. And so they're, they're, you know, because they're still playing actually when I'm walking off, they're still playing. So I walk off, I go, I would go on to the bus and I'd be there like by myself. I'm like, I'm not like a, you know, don't have a girlfriend or anything at this point. Still don't. And, and so, okay, we would kill it on Tinder man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I will walk on there. And now,

I've got Edgar to be, you know, be there with me. And, and so the way, and I just made me more happy. It made me, you know, he's excited that he gets to see you after he's been saying the bus now he gets on stage every night. So that's, yeah, it's, it's a crazy thing. I mean, he, he became, I guess, a famous dog, even though obviously a dog doesn't know their famous. He became a famous dog through the fact that he was just always in my social media because he's always around me. Well, I'm always on my social media telling about my day or talking. I, I tend to share random, on my social media because he's always around me. Well, I'm always on my social media telling about my day or talking. I tend to share random stuff on my social media to say whatever. And he's always right there by my side. So he's a very human-like dog.

He's very, you know, he's just one of those dogs that has a personality where he sits up in a chair on the bus. And he sits in the driver's seat on the two bus and it looks like he's going to drive it like when it's parked. And he's just very human. He does all these crazy things. So people saw his personality. And we have very similar personalities, which I'd never thought was really a thing with a dog, but I swear to the thing.

Like he's very introverted at times where he's kind of just running past dogs and kind of like doing his own thing and then some days he'll be all crazy with them or whatever. You know, this need his own time at times and he'll like, you know, kind of growl or just moan when you're messing with him. He's trying to sleep when he just wants to have his time. So we just had this this you just has this personality And and people fell in love with it. And so eventually we created like a

Instagram account just cuz I didn't want to be the guy that posted every picture of this dog And every social post even though every probably fourth one is that but And then he just kind of built I mean there's so many signs in the crowd for that dog every night And if I don't bring him on stage, which he's a dog I'm trying to give my fans to see that he's not gonna be at every show because he's a dog And there's gonna be times where he shouldn't have to travel 30 hours to get to the you know How does he not freak out like does he not get nervous going on stage and for all those people or is he he used to

He used to forget I brought him out the first time in a in a Bjorn. So he was across my chest. But he's a big dog. Yeah. Oh, at that point he was a pup. Okay. Okay.

And so he's a pup and you know, he's probably eight pounds at that point or ten pounds. So he's in this Bjorn and we're playing watershed and in Washington, which is the Gorge, which is amazing venue. If you've never been, you should go. Well, I bring him up at watershed. This amazing festival, huge crowd. His eyes were just massive. I had puppy headphones for him because I didn't want him to. So they have like, they look like something you wear when you're we eating the grass or something

You know like the the noise cancelling and They make them for dogs But and so he had huge eyes He was kind of freaked out and then I would never once while be like I'm gonna try to bring him on stage tonight And he would crawl like on its stomach like one time and then I figured out keep the headphones on him and then slowly Like one time, and then I figured out, keep the headphones on them. And then slowly, um, but the long, I would only put the headphones on if we're playing music because I don't want it at hers ears. But then in all of a sudden, he gets so excited because dogs are so food driven

that if he knows every night now, he's going to get a treat. So he, you can't even contain him when he's about to go on stage. You know, someone from my group brings him up on the leash and he's just, I mean, chomping out the bit to get up on stage and do his trick. I do, I put a treat on his nose and he flips it up as an oz and catch it in his mouth. People go crazy and they know that that moment of the show, so let's start chanting his name.

And I'll be like, oh, he's not here tonight. So, but yeah, it's awesome. It's been really cool to have that part of, part of companion out there. I don't wanna hold you too long. So just a little last, I think. I got one time, I got nothing. I got a squad show tomorrow.

So I'm gonna put it all. Okay, well then a few more questions, but I'm just curious, I'm asking this kind of out of sequence, but we're talking about how meditation has been helpful to you among other things. I just wonder if you feel now that it could be helpful in music writing, music composing. Right now or maybe at some point in the future, could you imagine the practice somehow being helpful there?

Or do you think it's complete? Oh yeah. Oh yeah, okay, I was going to ask whether it's unreliable. Yeah, in fact, I would, I think it would help you get more creative. Even when you're, I mean, the most inspired I get is when I go shut off, go to the islands or something and get rid of my phone and go sit in silence at times, even if I'm not meditating, if I'm not thinking about all this stuff, even if I'm not going to write songs, I get ideas, I get ideas.

Like, you know, because there's the thing is writers block or whatever, we're just, you got so much going on your brain, you can't even be inspired or know what to say, even if you got a bunch of stuff going on your life. And so, I think mindfulness, I can get to the point where I'm going to become, I really do believe is that I can Eventually be able to have those moments of pure Just being and being still and those moments of I could clear my mind and then actually Not be thinking about things to where okay, I can actually see the world for what it is and not see it for all the Crazy things and I have those moments, but I think I could create more of those moments by

Just doing nothing and being still. Yeah, I believe so. And so I think I've never thought about it, but putting it in songwriting. But if I look at my most inspired times, I always tell, you know, where, you know, my management or, or, or the label, I just need those moments to put blocks on my schedule, where I go away and I, and nobody, it's not like I want to go be lazy. I just need that to, you know, everybody needs recharge time, but also for creating. So if I can continue to grow as, and with mindfulness, I think that it can become a thing where it helps everything

that I do. And it already does, but I mean, even more so. I've found just about my own experience that it's incredibly helpful because when you start cutting down on useless rumination when you're not stuck in old thought patterns as much, and I don't think they go, in my experience, they don't go away all the way, but you can shave them down. Then you're making room for new stuff. That's the definition of creativity. Do you do, for new stuff. That's the definition of creativity. Do you do, do you meditate before you go into a creative in situation? You know, I'm not, um, I'm pretty disciplined, dude, but I have never created that discipline. What I have noticed, and when I was writing

my last book, when I hit a block, you know, if I was trying to write something and I just like was stuck, I would sometimes be smart enough to step away and meditate. And all sorts of ideas would come, not necessarily the ones I ordered. And it didn't necessarily solve every problem, but I did found that it at the very least it jared me out of the sort of circular thing I was probably in. But sometimes like, oh, actually an answer would come, but you can't expect it because literally the worst thing you can do in meditation is have expectation. Because that's the kiss of death.

It is. Well, when you get that point in creating and you're trying to write something so hard, you're trying to write something and you want it so bad, but you're putting so much pressure on it, that it's probably not going to, I've been, I was writing this song yesterday and I remember I could feel that energy drop like when you're really excited and then you get so frustrated because you can't because you can't figure out how to make and you can't make yourself excited about it. That will be the time I think to step away and do that because I mean I literally yesterday

with and this was co-writing so I'm about to be like hey I'm going to go out to my car and then that's in silence but I could definitely forget ways to do it where you know going to walk or whatever and kind or whatever I mean if you can't be instilled but but I think that is that is a good point and it's something that Another thing that I haven't even really thought about that, but I think it's true for sure But before we go can we can I for people who Maybe just hearing you on this show for the first time. Can you just Do some shameless plugging at my it's so it's not shameless because I'm forcing you to do it

But like tell us what you you know what albums we should check out Like where to find you on social media. Yeah, all that kind of stuff. Yeah So I'm on my third I guess my On my fourth album I just put out last year and one of them is a Christmas album. So that was, I put out a couple years ago. So I'm more fourth album. What's it called? The newest one is called Bread Eldridge. That's just my name. Temple. So self-titled. My first one was bringing you back. My second one was Illinois and Christmas album was glow and now this one is just my name. And so I so it's self title but then I moved to Nashville when I was in college.

I went to MTSU Middle Tennessee State, the transfer day. I got my degree and right before I got my degree, which was in university studies, which I still don't really know what that means. It's like a general degree because I was, but it's one of the right songs in the singer. And so I signed a publishing deal, signed a sign to Warner, Warner music and Atlantic records. And eventually here we are, I got country hits and, and, uh, successful,

successful Christmas album. You can find me on Instagram at Bread Eldridge, my name at Bread Eldridge on Twitter and Facebook and all that stuff. This has been a huge pleasure. Man, a huge pleasure. I will continue to listen to all your work and I think it's an amazing thing you're doing and we'll stay in touch, hopefully. You can give me more insight and things I can do to make myself better and and we'll stay in touch hopefully you can give me more insight and things

I can do to make myself better at and we'll all try to become better because we're never going to be we're never amazing but we're always going to strive to be. I commend you for what you're doing not only the work you're doing in your personal life but also that you're talking about it publicly. Yeah. I think it's very important. So I salute it a few times. It's definitely a passion of mine.

I see myself one day doing a whole lot with it. I think the more and more I just kind of work, you know, I'm getting it right for myself and then I can really even understand even more. I mean, I'm learning tons of stuff here today. It's like, I want everybody to have those kind of moments and see we're all in it together. I'm going to get you on a meditation retreat.

Yes, please do. That's going to happen. Alright. Alright, man. Thank you very much. I appreciate you. Okay, that does it for another edition of the 10% happier podcast. If you liked it, please take a minute to subscribe. Rate us. Also, if you want to suggest topics, you think we should cover or guests that

we should bring in. Hit me up on Twitter at Dan B. Harris. Importantly, I want to thank the people who produced this podcast, Lauren Efron, Josh Cohan, and the rest of the folks here at ABC who helped make this thing possible. We have tons of other podcasts. You can check them out at ABCnewspodcasts.com. You can listen to 10% happier early and add free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and add free with 1-replus in Apple Podcasts. Before you go, do us a solid and tell us all about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.