Ten Percent Happier with Dan Harris - 2: Weezer's Rivers Cuomo

Episode Date: March 11, 2016

Weezer frontman Rivers Cuomo has been writing and singing hit songs for more than two decades. But this Grammy-winning rocker, whose lyrics about relationships, promiscuity and drug use helped Weezer become what some argue is the father of today's emo genre, credits his success and stability to his daily practice of meditation. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What does it even mean to live a good life? Is it about happiness, purpose, love, health, or wealth? What really matters in the pursuit of a life well lived? These are the questions award-winning author, founder, and interviewer Jonathan Fields asks his guests on the Top Ranked Good Life Project podcast. Every week, Jonathan sits down with world renowned thinkers and doers, people like Glenn and Doyle, Adam Grant,

Young Pueblo, Jonathan Height, and hundreds more. Start listening right now. Look for the Good Life Project on your favorite podcast app. Do me a favor, take a second, and subscribe, rate the podcast, and if you really want to hook me up, tell some friends about how they too can find us. Now here's the show. Hey, this is Dan Harris. I am a fidgety skeptical newsman who had a panic attack live on Good Morning America.

That led me to something I always thought was ridiculous. Meditation. I wrote a book about it called 10% Happier, started an app, and now I'm launching this podcast to try to figure out whether there's anything beyond 10%. Basically, here's what I'm obsessed with. Can you be an ambitious person and still strive for enlightenment? Whatever that means. So I just want to say this, which is that if you had told the 1994 version of me that I'd ever be sitting and talking to Rivers Cuomo from Weezer, I would have freaked out,

because I'm a huge, long time old school fan of you in your work. I have everything you've ever made, and I love all of it, and so it's a huge thrill to be sitting and talking to you. Oh, thanks a lot. And even weirder that we're sitting to talk about, we're gonna talk about your music and your new record which is coming up, but we're also talking a lot about meditation, which is a combination that, again,

if you had told the 1994 me, I would have been like, that's awesome, but weird. You are actually the first public figure with whom I relate that I ever even learned was into meditation. I was reading an article about you, I think in 2005 and I mentioned that you were meditating in a closet or something like that and I thought, okay, this guy has lost his mind. This is way before I ever started meditating. Which leads me to my first question, was when and how did you start meditating? Well, first of all, I was meditating in school when I was a kid.

My family was living on the Satyudananda Ashram in Pomphera, Connecticut. And every day we'd, I don't know, maybe five minutes of mantra meditation. It seemed like an eternity, but it was probably only a couple of minutes. And then I switched to public school in sixth grade and of course I stopped doing it. And, you know, every now and then when I was in a crisis situation, I remember to do some mantra work to calm myself down.

Um, it was cool that I still had that instinct to do that when push came to shove. Can you just define for those, there may be some people don't want to know what a mantra is? Oh, yeah. Well, it's just some phrase you repeat over and over in your mind that helps to concentrate your mind and calm you down. Often it's a Sanskrit phrase. And I'm sure that I was, I got some Sanskrit phrase from Satyudananda. This is probably like 1977 or something

when I was a little kid. What is Satyudananda? He was the guru from India who came and did the opening talk at the Woodstock Festival. That's how most Americans would know him. But then he set up Ashrams at several places around the world, including one in Connecticut. And my parents were first involved

with the Rochester Zen Center, which is actually where they met. And then when I was three or four, they split up from each other. And my mom ended up at the Ashram in Connecticut, and that's where I spent a good part of my childhood. So she went from sort of a Buddhist situation to a Hindu situation?

Yeah. And it's not like Orthodox Hinduism is very reform. So there wasn't a heck of a lot of like worshiping blue multi-armed gods, but the central components of morality, karma yoga, working for others and meditation and yoga That was part of our daily life So you had a kind of like groovy hippie upbringing, didn't you? Yeah, it's weird as I remember asking my parents

When I was a kid are are you guys hippies and they would they would always say no they didn't identify with hippies But then later I looked back on it. It's like you know, it seems like your guys pretty much Are you guys hippies? And they would always say no. They didn't identify with hippies, but then later I look back on it. It's like, you know, it seems like your guys pretty much hippies. Yeah, it sounds like they're called four square into the hippie category. Yeah.

You raise your kid on an ashram and it sounds, in the 70s, it sounds pretty hippie. Yeah. I guess they got into all the stuff before the word hippie was in Time magazine though and they didn't associate it with being hippie. It was like it was a more serious spiritual endeavor. So I think they didn't like being labeled that later on.

But so it's unclear to me how much of this stuff really took root in you because as I understand it, as you got into high school, you really got into metal and then you formed weasier after high school. And you weren't meditating daily, right? That's right. I wasn't meditating until I was 32 and it was actually the music that brought me back because I felt like my inspiration, my creativity, was drying up and I needed, I tried everything else, I needed to do something drastic. Meditation seemed like the last thing that was going to help me feel creative again, but

I tried everything else and it was recommended to me by someone I respected very much, Rick Rubin, who was producing our record at the time. So I finally came around to it and tried it again. And immediately I recognized that it got me back in the right direction, I've been doing it ever since. And what kind of meditation did you do when you started again? Well, let's see.

I was just kind of dabbling around here and there. I didn't pick up a mantra again. I think I was drawn to more meditation on the breath. You know what? I first heard about that in a book on ninjas when I was maybe 13, it's like some book on the black arts of the ninjas and you know how to kill people with one move or that sort of thing. I was really interested in that. But anyway, it's the way that. No, I can't focus on the breath. But it's said the way the ninjas would meditate is by observing their breath and counting their breath up to nine and then starting again.

So I probably started like that and I did, I read a few books and I, well, I can't remember that guy's name, but he was like a Tibetan Buddhist meditation teacher. He's not Tibetan, but that's a style of meditation. Lama Sur Syria does? No. No, Robert Thurman. No, no, no, no, no, no. It's a, I can't remember. The last name starts with an M if that's helpful. We'll get there. We'll think of it. But I read his book and on an intellectual level,

it made a lot of sense to me. And that's when I started realizing that meditation might help me. And so I went to his his one of his retreats. It was at Mount Baldy here in the LA area. And every day he would teach a different technique. So it was kind of like a buffet. I was trying out different things.

And I think it was day two. He taught what was essentially the pasta nut was observing sensations on the body. And I immediately loved it. And it was like a bell went off. And I was like, this is it. I got to do this. I got to figure out how to dive into this, 100%. And so I just started asking around and looking online.

And I found the website for SN Go Enca. And noticed that he has centers all around the world and signed up for a course. That was 2003 and I've been doing it ever since every year I go and every day I practice that same technique. So again for the uninitiated and I'm not an expert in SN Goenka but he was a businessman and Indian businessman as far as I understand it, who learned how to meditate from a monk in Burma,

and then started teaching people all over the world. Yeah, he's Indian Hindu, but he grew up in Burma, and surrounded by Burmese Buddhists. And he hung on to his Orthodox Hindu beliefs, as long as he could, but then he was having terrible problem with migraine headaches. It was getting treated by doctors around the world, taking morphine, that sort of thing, and nothing was really helping him come out of that or deal with that. that so eventually he ended up trying Vipassana and recognized that it was helping and went all in and eventually became a teacher himself

and then went back to India and started teaching it there. The technique really exploded there and then from there started traveling around the world. Maybe around 1980 he got to the US, started a center there, and then I found it 2003. And you went kind of all in as I understand it. Yep. In fact, even before I sat my first course, I was already signed up for a second one a few weeks later. I just had this sense that it was going to work and it did.

So, yeah, every year I've sat at least 30 days, sometimes as much as 50 or 60 days. Still? Yeah. Well, this year I'm going to do 20. It's the first year I'm downgrading. Yeah, I just want to spend a little more time with my family. I was just going to ask about you have a wife, you've been married for almost 10 years,

and you have two kids, eight and four. Yeah. How do you do that volume of retreat time? You said before, north of 30 days, historically, and then this year, you're, you're, quote, unquote, downgrading to 20. That's still a lot of retreat time. And is your wife cool with it? Yeah, she is, she's supportive. In fact, she does it herself, she does 10 days. But it's definitely, I think it's been the most difficult thing I encounter on these courses is like worrying about my family and worrying if I should even be there.

Am I doing the responsible thing? And that's why I'm going down to 20 this year. I think it's going to be better. Well, I had a baby in December, so about 14, 15 months ago, and our first kid, and I did a retreat about nine or ten months after that and my first one since he was born. It was a 10 or 11 day retreat and Massachusetts and man, it was a big thing for me. Just kept coming up how much I missed him and I would do walking meditation outside, but I had had his baby blanket that I used as a scarf to kind of smell him. I don't know if that was a good or bad move because I was really thinking about him a lot.

So to do 20 or 30 days, just sort of navigating the politics of that with my wife and my job and missing him, it just seems like we're all lot. Yeah. I mean, you got to know that your family supports you and your wife supports you. You can't... That's one of the things. When you go to take one of these courses with Senguinka, there's an application you have to fill out and it says,

there's a question on there, is your partner supporting you, does your family support you? And if you say no, then, you know, the teachers are gonna talk to you, like maybe this isn't the right time to be taking this course. Cause yeah, you need to know that you're supported and

your family believes you're doing the right thing. Because it's such a hard thing to do. You don't want to have that hanging over your head. No, no. I mean, I've been lucky that my wife's been incredibly supportive and it sounds like you have been too. You to get back to something you said earlier though, that you you knew it was going to work and it did. What do you mean by work? You knew it was going to work and it did. What do you mean by work? How does it work for you? Well, the goal was to write better songs. And I felt like I had really bottomed out around 2002 after a third and fourth album and it wasn't coming up with anything. And then I came out of the course and started meditating every day and going back to courses and serving at with anything. And then I came out of the course and started meditating every day and going back to courses and serving at the center

and the ideas just started flowing. And you know, it's hard to measure success. I mean, I can point to the record we put out after and say, a song was nominated for a Grammy or a giant, the first million seller on iTunes, that sort of thing. That was made believe, right? Yeah, but that's commercial success and that's one metric. Other people could say, well, look, I got really bad reviews. So can you really say meditation was working for you?

And did it get bad reviews? Yeah, I mean, most of our records get bad reviews. Not the last one. True, that was the best reviewed record we ever got. So, I mean, I even hesitate to say, look, see what meditation's working. I can prove it, look at the sales figure or this review or whatever it is.

But I know, I just know in my heart that if I wasn't meditating, it's, I don't know if I could, if I would even be coming up with anything at this point. It's rare that for a rock musician to be able to keep putting out new music that feels exciting to anyone at this late stage in a career. So I don't know, I give I give the practice some credit. What about for you is just like a dude about the husband that dad and bandmate. Do you think it's changed the way you are in the world? Well, it's hard to say. I mean, it's been, what, what did I say 2003? So that's 13 years. I probably would have changed a ton anyway. But I mean, you just have to take my word. Like, I don't know if I ever could have

gotten married without this meditation practice to settle me down and get me focused on my core values. I had a real problem committing to anybody or as much as I wanted a relationship, I just would get dissatisfied and move on. So, you know, I feel like without the practice I wouldn't be married, I wouldn't have these kids, I wouldn't be able to hang in there. And then again, it's like, man, how long has his band been together? 24 years now, that's a... That's very... That's very... Yeah, and that's something to be proud of. And it's very hard to keep that thing going, that four-way marriage going.

And I don't know, I give the practice from credit for keeping me calm through any difficulties that come up and willing to compromise and not like, do make some stupid move, which is what I would have done before. I've read, and I don't even know if these articles that I've read are have any veracity to them so you can just set the record straight. But I've read that sometimes the relationships among the band members have been pretty tough. Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

And do you think it's approved as a consequence of your having this practice in your life? I do. And again, it's hard to say like maybe we would have grown up and matured and become cool with each other anyway. But I feel like the practice, it's only accelerated that process and prevented me from doing something stupid like saying, screw it, you guys, I don't need you, I'm going to go make a solar record that sort of thing. Yeah, and I do feel like the toughest times

are far behind us now and we really enjoy each other and we're working well together. So what is your practice like now, how much meditating are you doing every day? Well, going because requirement is two hours a day. So an hour in the morning, hour in the evening. I've done that every day since 2003, except for one day in 2009 when our tour bus crashed. And you got pretty badly hurt if I recall. Yeah. So I was unconscious that day.

It's a pretty good excuse. Yeah. But you did the two hours the next day when you were open to the hospital? In the hospital bed. That is a staggering level of commitment. I know you've derived a lot of benefits for it, but I'm just curious if you can just explore again for me.

The what is driving you to do that? Just keep doing it every day. I'm sure there are bad days where you don't want to put your butt on the cushion. So what is motivating you to keep going with this thing? Well, I've never had a problem at all because from day one, it was about the music and creativity being an artist. And that's been the most important thing to me and I know meditation is the best possible thing for my creativity so yeah it's no problem.

And still for you the driver's creativity? Yeah, I wonder about that. Pretty early on within a year or two, I recognized like I was getting all these other benefits that I didn't think I cared about. But yeah, I guess if you, if I get somehow got fired and I was not allowed to write any more music or put out any more music. Would I still meditate? I think at this point I think I would.

It's like, hmm, whatever it is I'm doing, it's going to end up better if I'm sitting, if I'm sitting two hours a day. And if I go to these courses every year, whatever I'm doing, it's going to be better. Would you describe yourself now as a Buddhist? No. No. No. No. Do you think, because the school in which you're studying,

Galenka's school is clearly Buddhist. No, he makes a point to not call himself a Buddhist. I think, correct. So do you think about things like enlightenment? I know. You got a Buddha in the bathroom, I didn't notice. Oh, no, that's just for fun. Okay.

No, I don't, I mean, if practicing this much, didn't give me any benefit in the moment, it was all about someday becoming enlightened. At that, I couldn't have the discipline to do. I sit every day because every day when I get it from sitting, it's like, wow, I feel so much better. So it's not, well, I mean, I guess the argument

around enlightenment, I'm certainly not an expert, but I'm deeply, deeply curious about it, is, you're never gonna get enlightened in the future because everything happens right now. So whenever you get enlightened, it's going to be right now. So it's like waking up to this thing that's very hard to see, but it's always right here. I find that idea intriguing.

And in fact, I find to be a motivator. I don't know if I can explain it better than I just did, or because I'm sure there's a lot more to it, but it doesn't seem like that's really on your radar screen. Not at all. It's just about creativity, better relationships. It's working thus far, why stop it? Yeah. Do you find you said there was no problem for you in the two hours a day, but I about six months ago I went to two hours a day in part because I because I talked to you and a few other people I knew who had done two hours a day and with my schedule I and I know you have a crazy schedule too especially when you're on

the road it's hard you know I've given myself the leeway which you have not of just I can sit in whatever increments I want so sometimes I'll do a 75 minute 80 minutes sit and then other times I'll do five minute or 10 minute, and I just string it together. Yeah, I've started doing that too. Oh, you have, yeah. Okay. Because I find that makes it much easier.

Schedule-wise. Yeah. Yeah, me too. Like I can sleep, I can wake up whenever I wake up. I don't have to send an alarm, and then I can sit as much as I can before the kids wake up, and then I I can stop and I can spend some time with them, get them off to school, and then I can finish my sitting. And what about when you're on tour?

Well, first of all, let me correct you. I don't have a crazy schedule. You don't? No. Okay. I mean, I have a very chill schedule. That's awesome. And I like it that way. Yeah, I would like it that way So on tour well, you know, we haven't really been touring this summer is gonna be our first major tour in years It's also gonna be our longest craziest biggest tour ever So you know you just say at the beginning, all right, I'm going to meditate an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening and then everything else has

to go around that. And there's not much else that needs to get done. Sound check, the show, an interview maybe, hang out with the family. Well, because, you know, I'm guessing you're not doing a lot of the things that take up a huge chunk of time on the itinerary of most rock stars which is cocaine and you know heroin and just and sadly you know so you do have more time than the average rock musician I would imagine yeah and what Gouenka says I found to be true is that once you start meditating that much you your, your time becomes, you make much better use of your time.

You're not just lying around watching TV or whatever. It's, I, you just feel more focused and you get a lot more done in the time you have. I totally agree with that. I thought there was no way I was going to be able to get two hours a day and then the time just opens up. And now if I'm lying around watching TV with my wife, it's because that's what we want to do at that time. But it's almost like this is maybe a stupid analogy. But when you play as a kid in high school, if you play a sport, even though it's taking up

a huge chunk of your time, your life just has an order to it. And that's the impact I've found. Yeah. You said you're not a Buddhist, and so maybe this question doesn't make any sense But I've noted that you have a real theme in your social media postings of skeletons Mm-hmm, which which to me as somebody I guess who would describe himself as a Buddhist has a lot of resonance Yeah, impermanence and things like that is are you Is is the skeleton thing unrelated to any of the things we're talking about, or does it go to the core of it?

Oh, yeah. My skeleton's back there. I think I got that skeleton after the bus accident, actually. I wanted to see exactly where I had broken bones and it was just very interesting to me. As I have other injuries going forward, I'll be able to look on the skeleton and see where they are. But yeah, I think meditating 20, 30, 45 days, you start to become aware of your skeleton

and the inside of your body, especially like doing a deposit, you're observing sensations, you're observing your body, and you're aware of all the change and the decay and the anicha, you know that word, the constant change. Draping, I'm never, this is the first podcast in which somebody's used a word from the Polly language, so that's good. Anicha means impermanence in poly, yes, the language of the Buddha. Yeah, and there even was a technique,

technique that the Buddha taught to some students where they would go to the churnal ground and just look at all these dead bodies in various states of decay. And, you know, especially for those guys that were having trouble like being attracted to women and getting sexually aroused all the time and makes it hard to meditate.

Just think about the reality of what's there, that beauties skin deep and then he would just list all the various disgusting ingredients in the body. And so it's nice to think about that from time to time, keep your perspective. There's some story about it. I'm not going to be able to nail this, but there was a story about some monk back in the Buddha's time was walking through the forest and he had walked as some beautiful woman had run by him. Yeah. He was running away from her husband. And

the husband finds the monk and says, did you see my see my beautiful wife and he said i don't know about a bag of bones past past this way that's the story i was thinking of thank you uh... i i don't think i nailed the story but you know i'm talking about roughly yeah but i'm down with the skeleton for sure but some people i assume listening to this or watching this would probably think that's really more how do you respond to that?

Well morbid is an emotional reaction to some bones or some, you know, add-up and some molecules that are there. You don't necessarily have to have that particular emotional reaction. There's many reactions you could have. But it is, my response would would be it is the truth. We don't want to think about it and we sequester our elderly away in nursing homes. At few enrolled we paint the body to make it look alive. But we are in these fragile impermanent bodies that are made up of all sorts of I think fluids and things like that that most of us find disgusting when

But it is the truth the undeniable truth that we don't want to look at it's kind of like asking a cat to look in the mirror You know if you were trying to do that with a cat or a dog it won't look But we won't look at this fundamental truth and the skeleton is a reminder. Yeah and even more fundamental beneath that is the subatomic particles are rising and passing away. And that's all it is. Yeah, gotta keep it in mind. Do you keep it in? Do you find that you are able to keep it in mind? Well, no, not in my daily life, but that is what the meditation practice is. That's what Vapasana is.

It's actually not thinking about it on an intellectual level, but actually feeling it, feeling as much detail as you can of your physical sensations. You, just obvious to me sitting here and listening to you that you've derived enormous amount of benefit from the practice, but you also said you were using it in service of creativity and in your art is rock music. Generally, thought of as a young person's game, sort of angsty. You were arguably the progenitor of emo music.

You're a music, especially Pink or Ten, your second album. Sometimes people point to that as the first true emo album. So it was all about on happiness and sexual attraction. And one of your songs is Tired of Sex, and sexual attraction or lack there of all sorts of twitchy itchy stuff that comes along with being in your early 20s. And now you're in your mid-40s, you meditate two hours a day, you go on a retreat for weeks. That would seem to be the sort of the enemy of rock music. Talk to me how those two, tell me about how those two fit together.

Well, that's exactly why I didn't want to try meditation in the first place. And why it took me so long. It seemed like the last thing that could possibly help me make better rock music. But I was willing to give it a try. And what can I say? It helped. And I'm not exactly sure why. I mean it definitely improves your concentration and creativity Even in rock music is about concentration. It's about fighting through whatever internal struggles or our self doubt And really focusing in on what it is you're trying to say Even if it's about something that appears to be immoral or whatever, you know, it's you got to focus in on it and describe it.

And that's what Pinkerton was all about. So to find the words for that, and so meditation has helped me do that. But if Pinkerton was legitimately, it may just come through. I mean, I've just listened, I just read, listened to it recently. It just comes through in every note of it how, you know, you're in a bad place around that record. You can hear it. But you're in a, at least to my eyes, it seemed to be in a great place right now.

You're in your mid-40s, beautiful wife, wonderful kids, meditation practice that seems to be in a great place right now. You're in your mid-40s, beautiful wife, wonderful kids, meditation practice that seems to improve your relationships on every level of your life. So how can you write tortured rock music in your current state? Well, maybe this is one of the things I first picked up from that book I read by McLeod. Okay, McLeod. Yeah, I know, okay, McLeod. Thank you.

So it was in that book. I think he was saying something like, yeah, you can take drugs or you can get yourself into all these crazy, dramatic situations. So you know, these emo situations. So you have something to write about. These are just, or so that you feel high, but these are just peak experiences and then they pass and then you feel blog and, or you can meditate and sharpen your mind so that you can get more out of subtler disturbances.

And so I am not enlightened or free from those, the same kind of emotions I had when I was in my mid-20s writing, Pinkerton. I'm still the same kind of emotions I had as when I was in my mid 20s writing Pinkerton, I still I'm still the same person. You know, maybe it's not as intense or maybe I know how to deal with it, but now I can look at them and I don't necessarily need to stoke them as fires. So to have something to write about, I can just observe them as they are and write about them and maybe coming through the speakers,

it sounds like maybe it sounds more, like there's more tumble in my life than you think there is when you're sitting here across from me, but I don't know, it's still, across from me, but I don't know, it's still... First of all, you gotta hear the new record. You haven't heard the new record yet. I've heard some of the songs. Some of the songs are up on iTunes

as we speak and they're great. King of the world. Yeah. There's still, I mean, there's still plenty of emotional disturbances for me to write about. So I love what you're saying, because I'm a guy who wrote a book called 10% Happier, so I'm not in the market of peddling miracle curers. I don't think they exist.

I mean, if the Lightman is real, I actually think it's probably much more complicated on some levels or much less sort of candy land as people might imagine given the connotations around the word. I kind of think of it like enlightenment is like nothing's going to do it to nothing's going to do it for you until everything does it for you. The good, the bad, the ugly is I think probably my sort of undenlightened mind's rough attempt to understand what it means and so the emotional disturbances aren't going to go. I mean, the Buddha got into bad moods.

He had a rocking a shoe. He didn't like that. He had, when his friends died, he got upset. So for sure, and he was negotiating among these warring kings and stuff like that. So he had a tumultuous life. And so I really am sort of, as the kids would say, picking up what you're putting down, because you do have these organically existing issues. You're just not amplifying them in an unconstractive way in your life.

You're just using them to write music. Yeah, exactly. Hey there listeners. While we take a little break here, I want to tell you about another podcast that I think you'll like. It's called How I Built This, where host Guy Razz talks to founders behind some of the world's biggest and most innovative companies, to learn how they built them from the ground up.

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get your podcasts. You can listen early and add free on the Amazon or Wondery app. So tell me I read a few things I'd love to hear you talk about how you did research for your new album. What's the new album called, by the way? The White Album. The White Album. You actually joined Tinder. Yeah.

And your wife was cool with that? Yeah. But it was only for research purposes. Yeah. You hesitated. Well, I mean, I don't know, it's somehow feels a little smaller that I go out into into the world to have experiences in order to write songs, but why am I writing songs? Is it? I don't know, it's, it just feels like this is my path, my path in life is, is to live and have these experiences and then put them into songs. It just feels, so I don't want

to sell the whole Tinder experience short and say it's just for this small practical perp. It's more like this big mission, I'm on. I guess what I was getting at is you weren't doing it for hooking up. Oh no, I can't do that. So you were meeting people on Tinder and just hanging out with them? Yeah. Well, the one relationship that was proved most useful for Thank God for Girls actually didn't even meet her in real life. It was just text relationship. And you were talking about the song Thank God for Girls. Yeah.

How did that text relationship help the song? Well, there's actually lines from our correspondence that I used in the lyrics. And just the whole idea of, and meeting up in real life would cause the illusion to shatter. I wish that I could get to know her, but meeting up in real life would cause the illusion to shatter. There's no way I would have written that without having gone through the Tinder experience. And did you actually meet up in real life with some people and how did you reach that? Is like, hey, I'm in a rock band, I want to hang out and talk or split with those people

don't join Tinder to meet dudes who are looking for inspiration for songwriting. Yeah. I think my description says, I'm just here doing research and looking to make new friends and have experiences and not looking to hook up, something like that. And some people, I don't know how Tinder works, this is going to sound like protesting too much, but it's just, they, in order in order to like that, or to reply that. They swipe right, and that's so then we have a match. And then you just chitchat with them. And how did it go when you actually were meeting people,

IRL, how did that go, and what was your goal for those experiences? That's really great on tour because I'll be in Indianapolis and I won't know a soul there and so I can go on Tinder and Find somebody right around the hotel and then you know, we can go out and they'll show me around the town and It makes for a much richer experience than sitting in the hotel room and watching a movie. For sure. I should tell our podcast listeners that that noise is the air conditioning in your lovely

home. You want to turn it? You want to turn it? It's OK. All right. He's going to go for it. As I look over my questions and I want to ask you, the other thing you did as I understand it was, you just hit a click, which will slowly

power it down. Is that what's going on? Yeah. The other thing you did is you went to the beach? Yeah. Well, before we even assembled the first song, we had the idea of the overriding theme, that it would be a beach album. So in order to pick up images and visual details I just spent tons of time at Santa Monica and Venice Beach. Observing. Yeah, observing, walking around, biking, hanging out with people. And can

you go out in public without being bothered? Yeah. You can? Yeah. Because if I saw you in public, I would bother you. I bet you wouldn't. If I don't have my glasses on, and I'm just walking around, I bet you wouldn't even recognize me but that must be this In congruence there for me because I've been watching you on music videos for decades You play in front of stadiums screaming people who all know exactly who you are and yet you can hang out at the beach on molested Yeah, you know occasionally I'll get recognized If I put my glasses on, I get recognized more often. Do you feel like a rockster?

I don't know. I mean, I've been once for half my life, most of my adult life, so I don't know any other reality. I feel like this is what it... This is all I know, what it's like to be a human. When you were in your early 20s and putting out the blue album and Pinkerton and all that stuff, when you looked at 45-year-olds who were still making rock music, what did you think of those guys? Did you think they should stop or were you into it? Well, I was probably very into classical music and I've always had natural respects for

an attraction to older people. You know, I wasn't crazy necessarily about artists my own age in the early 20s or younger. I always looked up to the past masters. That being said, there was something kind of distasteful about like older looking people playing specifically rock music with those kind of instruments, those kind of clothes and stage moves, just kind of distasteful. And yet, here you are. Yep.

Well, I don't have to look at myself. How long do you think you can keep doing this? Tell them 60. 60. You've already got this mapped out. Yep. What are you going to do at. So you've already got this mapped out. Yep. What are you going to do at 60? Retire. And just hang out. I'll do a lot of service at the meditation centers. But that's awesome. Yeah. So you'll be putting out weasers albums through your

50s. Yep. And you don't care like what when anybody, you'll just keep doing it. I care what people say, but not to the extent that it would stop me from putting out music. We mentioned before that your last record, everything will be all right in the end. Got really good reviews, which I know, and I disagree with this, is rare for you. Was that meaningful to you?

And will if the next record doesn't get good reviews, will you be upset? I don't think the next record will get as good reviews, but I think they'll still be good. Now, yeah, I mean, I love good reviews and I hate bad reviews for sure, but there's nothing I can do about it.

No. I think that's the only attitude you can have, right? You cannot control how people are going to respond to it. But there was a, the one record, I'm just thinking of it, that I think completely gets overlooked as maladroid. And it's a fantastic record that never doesn't get talked about enough. But the records, when I just collected a bunch of articles about you, it was reading them, people keep talking about that period of time when you when you're you had a little bit of a fan revolt around green album.

Green album. No, no, not green album. There's pretty much every album there's a fan revolt. I guess. Hurley. Okay. That that revolt.. I remember the early revolt. Yeah, and then the record before it I can't remember what that attitude gratitude and hurly. Yeah people got pissed in that area. I'm not quite sure Why and but I'm more than less interested in that more interested in how you deal with that and whether meditation is useful in those moments It is yeah, I mean in those moments. It is, yeah. I mean, when fans get upset or the critics get upset, it's like you just feel the sick inside and like physically pained.

And then you meditate for an hour and it all relaxes and you feel chill again. Do you think it does the pain come back? Or, yeah. I mean, it doesn't go away in one sitting for good, for sure. But I would say over the years, it bothers me less and less. That is not nothing. Yeah, that's a miracle.

Yes, I would agree with that. I mean, what it seems to me is, I mean, I kind of view meditation as really like a training and resilience because in meditation, you have to be super resilient because it's humiliating. You just quote unquote fail over and over again. You try to focus on one thing.

It's pretty incredible. Yeah, you're just off, you know, your mind is crazy. Bunkers. If you want definitive, despositive proof that you're insane, try to meditate. Right? Because you're just going to go off and off. And even for me, I'm not having been meditating as long as you, but coming up on seven years

and when I try to meditate, it's a circus. Yeah. And so you still it's a circus. Yeah. And so you still for me? Yeah, okay, so right, there we go. And so it's a training in resilience because you have to just learn how to come back. And that is scalable off the cushion and I'm hearing in what you're talking about

with these reviews because you spend years working on a record, it's your baby, and people say nasty things about it, and you gotta get over it somehow. You to deal with it and clearly you have because you keep doing more records Yep, one other thing I wanted to ask you about that I read about is that And this has to do with this issues of the issue of your relationships in your life But you had a reunion with your father Mm-hmm. Can you talk tell me a little bit about that?

Well, so my parents split up when I was three or four, and I didn't see him much growing up, probably once in a seven when I was 11, 16, and then a few times. It's amazing that you can remember the exact age you were the other times you started that. I have a really good memory for the 70s and 80s. It's weird. But also speaks to the emotional potency What did you say, your day? I have a really good memory for the 70s and 80s.

It's weird. But also speaks to the emotional potency of that departure on his part. No, honestly, what it is is there's been times in my life when I've gone back through my life and really made accurate records of when I was where, what was happening, filed, I told you, I'm just before the podcast started, I'm crazy organized on my computer. So I just kind of know where all that stuff happened.

And then after, after my been 20s, I just haven't kept track of that stuff. So I don't know anything about what happened last week, but I know what happened when I was said Okay, so and then in my 20s I saw him a few times when we were touring through Europe Because he was originally stationed in Germany and then he ended up just living there after he got out of the army So he joined the army? Yeah, so we went from being in the Zen Center to joining the army? Well, I think there was a phase in between where he was living the wildlife,

and then he was born again and joined the army and became a minister of the Pentecostal Church. And so he's been doing that ever since. And a few years ago, he moved back to the States, and he's actually living in the valley here in L.A. So I see him much more frequently now. Did you have some anchor they had to get over? I think I did. Yeah Yeah, I remember when I was young I just I Loved him so much and looked up to him so much and just thought he was the coolest thing ever and it was it was really

Really painful that he wasn't there. How did you get over it? I don't know. Just went away eventually. Look, it wasn't, it wasn't gonna help you or serve you in any way to be angry, to have a relationship with him and have, and to allow him to have a relationship with his grandchildren is better for everybody, I would imagine.

Well, I don't know, I got some good lyrics out of it. Which songs? Well, famously, Sadie and So is a lot of, that's probably one of our biggest, most love songs. It definitely has that theme of like, a child that's been treated unjustly lashing out at a parent. And I think a lot of people relate to that. For sure. We are almost at a time. But is there anything else you want to talk about? Like anything else about the record you want to tell me about your tour? Things you're interested in?

Well, first of all, I do want to say one of the things that I think would be slightly interesting to you is the thing about committing to two hours a day, the other thing that's a huge help in motivating myself to do that is going cut. He doesn't just ask you to sit two hours a day. It's a requirement. If you want to sit in the long courses every year, which I immediately knew I wanted to get to 20 days, 30, 45, if you want to sit those, you have to be able to say you've been sitting two hours a day, I think for two years. So from my first course, that really helped me commit because I knew if I'm miss a sitting then I can't sit my course.

Nobody's doing any accounting on you though. No, but it's a question on the application and you just don't want to lie. That's the other requirement is you can't lie. You have to keep the five precepts. So from that first course, I've done my best to keep the five precepts. But the five precepts are Buddhist, specifically Buddhist precepts.

They were given by the Buddha, yeah. So from my first course, also somewhat famously, at least in Weezer circles is you know I couldn't have any kind of sexual activity outside of lifelong committed relationships so for three years I was completely celibate after that first course how'd that go that was tough yeah that would have meant well I don't want to push you into uncomfortable territory, but I would imagine in your position that you don't lack, for options in your job. So it wasn't until you met and married your wife that you were allowed to get back in

the game. That's right. Interesting. And you say famous in Weezer Circles, so I would imagine people know in Weezer Circles that you meditate, do you have, have you turned your fans onto it at all? I feel like it's a, it's such a personal thing and it's such a rare thing that, that a person will feel, will get it. Like, this is something I want to, I actually want to do and it's going to be good for me.

And there's not, not a huge point in encouraging people even for me. It's so hard. Like, and I don't want anyone to be in the middle of their 10 day course. It is utterly miserable thinking, damn it, rivers. He made me come here. This is horrible. Well, look, there's no way you can do what you've done or what anybody who's kind of really into

the practice can do without internal propulsion. You can't do it. You can't do it for somebody else because it is, you said, it's just too hard. It's too hard. It's cool to meet somebody else is doing it. Anything else? This has been really fun for me. I don't know. Like, yeah, if you're interested in the centers I go to, it's doma.org, D-H-A-M-M-A. That's where you can sign up for Goenka. Yeah, 10 D course.

Yeah. Can't think of it. Can't think of it. Are you ban made to doing it? No. Do you remember? I don't know if this is Can't think of it. Are your bandmates doing it? No. Do you remember, I don't know if this is controversial, but do you remember that article in Rolling Stone about you guys in 2005 when you were on the cover?

Yeah. So I actually know the woman who wrote that. Vanessa? Vanessa. Yeah, I'll never forget her. Yeah. I would like to hear more about that. Not on the record.

Not on the record. Okay, that's your publicist, not on the record. So we don't have to talk about her, but what about, because if you read that article, it seems like you are not at all like the person in that article. The guy I'm sitting with six, 11 years later does not at all seem like the person

I would be primed to meet if I read that article. Because in the article it seems like you're not a jerk, but that you're very specific. Kind of an OCD specific. And maybe not your social skills, maybe slightly different than others. Is that a safe way to describe the way you think you came off in that article? Yeah, definitely. So I guess my question is, was the article wrong or have things changed in part because of maturation and meditation?

Well, I think both. I was impressed that she managed to portray me that way, given what I thought the interview was like, given what I thought I was like, I think at the same time, I think I have changed a lot, and I learned a lot from that article, actually, and that's one of the things that has discouraged me from taking any kind of proselytizing tone in an interview, and I'm very careful,

and I don't even bring it up. I mean, obviously, here. The meditation thing. Yeah. But the meditation thing wasn't what came through most powerfully in the article. What was it, the wacky world of weasers? What came through the...

The relationships among the bang members, and that, how there was tension and the other guys in the band were like, what were they referring to you as dude because you would just start meditating, and that seemed like a pretty big departure from the guy was, I don't know, like maybe micromanaging a little bit.

Yeah. Well, I mean, that's right when I started pretty much. That was two years into my practice, I think. So, you know, they, and I probably hadn't seen them in 2003 just a little bit in 2004. I come back in 2005, do that interview, and say, look guys, I'm a new person, I'm meditating now, and you know, they're rightfully pretty skeptical. Because what had you been like before?

Well, I alluded to a little bit at the beginning of this interview, but I had really bottomed out. And you can probably find some interviews from 2002, where it's, or 2001, where I had fired our manager, I was managing the band myself. I was in a number of lawsuits on behalf of the band. I was just causing all kinds of problems. And what was going on with you? Well, you know, I'm kind of drawing a blank. I think I'm not.

I just have this instinctual aversion to talking that badly about myself, which I think is healthy. So if you want to do the research, you can go back, but... You don't need to talk badly. That's not my goal. Yeah, I think at the heart of it,

it was like just this withering of my life force and my creativity and it caused me to really grip and try to control things. You know, our career was so much less secure at that point too, a failed record which we had, you know, felt like maybe that's it. So it caused me to not behave super great. I get it because here's this thing that's like the center of your life which is your ability to make beautiful music, awesome music, whatever however you want to describe it. And if you feel like it's slipping away, you can act out in all sorts of crazy ways,

especially if you don't have something like grounding, you like marriage, meditation, being sure, whatever. And this is a good way to end it. I think the ending to the extent that there are endings is that seems pretty happy. Yeah. This was awesome. Huge thrill for me to talk to you about both of these subjects,

your music, which has been a big part of my life for a long time, and also meditation, which is a huge part of my life as well. So, thank you. Appreciate it. It's a thrill for me, too. I never get to talk about this stuff, so thanks. Hey, this is Dan, one thing before you go, actually two things. First, if you like my show, please make sure to subscribe to the 10% happier podcast

so you'll know when we post the next one. The second thing is, if you're really into it, you can check out my app, which is called 10% happier meditation for fidgety skeptics. Thanks again for listening. Talk to you next time. Hey, hey, prime members. You can listen to 10% happier early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery

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