Ten Percent Happier with Dan Harris - 23: Mario Batali

Episode Date: June 29, 2016

World-renowned chef Mario Batali has 28 restaurants, 10 cookbooks, a daytime cooking show, a food emporium in New York City, and now plans for a food theme park. He also -- somehow -- finds time to keep a daily meditation routine. Batali says he started practicing mantra-based Transcendental Meditation (TM) six years ago after Jerry Seinfeld and his wife, Jessica, suggested he look into it. Batali said he now practices twice a day for 20 minutes, and that it's helped calm his temper. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

It kind of blows my mind to consider the fact that we're up to nearly 600 episodes of this podcast, the 10% happier podcast. That's a lot of conversations. I like to think of it as a great compendium of, and I know this is a bit of a grandiose term, but wisdom. The only downside of having this vast library of audio is that it can be hard to know where to start. So we're launching a new feature here, playlists, just like you put together a playlist of your favorite songs.

Back in the day, we used to call those mix tapes. Just like you do that with music, you can do it with podcasts. So if you're looking for episodes about anxiety, we've got a playlist of all of our anxiety episodes. Or if you're looking for how to sleep better, we've got a playlist of all of our anxiety episodes, or if you're looking for how to sleep better, we've got a playlist for that. We've even put together a playlist of some of my personal favorite episodes. That was a hard list to make. Check out our playlists at 10%.com slash playlist. That's 10% all one word spelled out..com slash playlist singular.

Let us know what you think. We're always open to tweaking how we do things and maybe there's a playlist we haven't thought of. Hit me up on Twitter or submit a comment through the website. From ABC, this is the 10% happier podcast. I'm Dan Harris. My guest today is one of the best chefs on planet Earth and I say that was zero hyperbole. He's been responsible for some of the best culinary experiences of my entire life.

He's got a restaurant empire that ranges from New York City to LA to Hong Kong to Boston. He's written 10 cookbooks. He's also the host of the Chu on ABC and somehow And somehow, in the midst of all that, he finds time to meditate. He is Mario Batalli, ladies and gentlemen. And we recorded this podcast at one of his restaurants in downtown Manhattan, which I have always referred to as auto, but it's actually Oto. Oto. For the number eight, because we are on eightth street.

Oh, there you go. All right, we are ostensibly a meditation podcast. So let me just start with that. Okay. When, why, where, how did you start meditating? I started meditating six years ago after having a couple of dinners with Jerry and Jessica Seinfeld, who of which Jerry is a huge fan of TM through the David Lynch stuff. Fransonetal Meditation.

And they turned me on to this guy Bob Roth, who runs the David Lynch stuff. France and Edelmett, and they turned me on to this guy, Bob Roth, who runs the David Lynch Foundation. And I took his classes for like three lessons, and then I started doing it. And I must say it changed just about everything. I'm packed that for me a little bit, specifically what did it change? I'm in a high pressure, high tension situation, almost every day, if you allow it to become that.

And how I had been processing my overloaded days and information was slightly losing my temper every now and then, even if not outside, visible to the outside. And what I realized, I could figure this out. I mean, I box four days a week. I play squash two days a week. So I'm pretty set up in the exercise department. And I just wasn't able to rid myself of little bits of anger, like waiting in line for a long time in the traffic and someone not turning

or someone in my team not doing exactly what I told them to do or even close to what I told people. People being noisy in the middle of the night. Exactly. Which is, which happens. And what I found that after about a month of doing TM, which for me they're all the same. Like I love your 10% happier piece, and I love the TM piece. But I love people that don't even have a practice way of doing it.

But they find a way to quietly comb their soul once or twice a day because that's just what they think is a good idea. Some of it's spiritual, some of it's not spiritual, it's physical, but but what worked for me is I realized that if I could find 20 minutes to scrape both the top foamy part of my sea of mentality and get to the profound non-moving depths of that same sea, I could find a place somewhere lower to the bottom than nearer to the top to spend most of my time and it allowed me to More carefully or more slowly react to something that was offending me bothering me pissing me off or totally Enraging me and in that minute that you take to think how am I going to respond to this?

The meditation has given me a much firmer base from which not to shoot as quickly or as loudly or as defensively as I might have in the past. For those of us who don't know anything about TM or Trans-Dental Meditation, how does it work? It's like most meditation, they give you a mantra, but I don't think it's crucial that someone gives it to. You could decide that I want to do water glass. It's the ideas that you repeat it in your mind to the point that almost like a Zen T service,

you can remove your mind from the equation as you just sit there and quietly and mindfully try to find a calm place. And the mantra is something that keeps you focused on the low end, but as with all meditation, well, maybe not with all, but of all the ones that I've learned, we accept the fact that you will wander off into your mind and suddenly you're thinking about something and you're moving more quickly than your intention is.

But as opposed to looking like that, as a failure, you realize when you realize it, that you go back into the mantra or the quietness or the mindful silence in your heart or whatever you want to call it. For me, it's not so spiritual. For me, it's much more about finding calm, which I know every being has a calm somewhere.

And how often do you do it when? I do it twice a day. 20 minutes a time. 20 minutes twice a day. And what, I wanna talk about your schedule in a second, but when do you do it in your day? If I'm shooting the chew, we are in at 7.30, we rehearse until about eight, then we roll at nine.

So between eight and nine, and then before dinner time. If I'm not rehearsing the chew, it's generally after I get up, which is about the same every day. I get up around five, five, 30, if I'm sleeping in. And I get up, I start my day, I figure out what's going on for the kids breakfast, I make sure the dog goes out and takes a pee, I come back upstairs. Before anyone else gets up, I have it probably an hour sometimes, so I can read a little bit of the newspaper, but I start with meditation.

So talking about your schedule, because just from an outsider, it seems ridiculous. You are on the chew every morning. You have 7,000 restaurants by my account. 28. Okay, 28. I have a new show on Vice. We're doing our second pilot. But yeah, that's starting in the work. You do a lot of charity work. You've written a bunch. Just about once a week. You've written a bunch of books. I think I let's say 10. 11 now. Other new ones coming out. Yeah.

Okay, so again, my math is wrong, but, Jen, I'm directionally correct. So that's a lot of stuff, and I'm sure I haven't even, you've, and you've got two kids in a wife. Yes. So that's a lot of stuff. How do you do all that without losing your mind? My lesson to most of the people that work with me that lose their mind on smaller bits of that giant puzzle is find a way to every day compartmentalize things.

You're not going to push the rock all the way up to the top of the hill and leave it up there ever. So what you need to do is say if there are five projects that you're working on, find out how much do you think at the end of the week you need to propose to work on those projects and of each day only give that one that amount of time. Be able to put it away, close the folder and say, I'll get back to this tomorrow. And in the same sense, unless I'm opening a new restaurant tonight for the very first time, which that day is spent entirely on the new restaurant, I figure out what part of my day and my week and my month and my year can go to each thing that I'm involved

with. So like, you know, the red campaign is a big thing in June. It's about providing the funding for the HIV relief drug that allows people to live normal lives and stops the transmission of HIV from mother to child. And in Africa, it's a really big thing and I work on it with Shriver and Bono, and it's a lot of fun. The hour month, the restaurant activation month is June. So may tilts a little bit toward that while we get all of our stuff in order. But by the time it's under roll and moving forward, I check in on it now, but in the last month, it would take 60% of my time.

Now it's only going to take 5% of my time. So I figure out how important the things are, and often, the way to figure that out in my world is how much money am I making on this? Or how much joy am I getting out of this? Or how much social responsibility am I getting out of this? And you kind of figure out where that matches this week. And then you really have to say, listen, I can do two hours this week. And I can do six hours next week. And I can do one hour this week.

But it causes me from feeling it diminishes in my mind the fact that I'm not getting anywhere because I didn't finish anything today. But in fact, hurtling small goals at all times. And that makes me feel a lot more confident that I will eventually get to the finish line of what I needed to. I'm going to advance my opinion now so that it's worth pretty much nothing. But I sit across the table occasionally from people who claim to be in a state of imperturbability

and I don't believe it. But I sit across from you, actually, I sense you're a pretty calm guy. And is that, would it have been different if I was sitting across from you say eight, nine, 10 years ago, premeditation? Oh, yes. Yes.

Absolutely. But also, I'm in age, eight, nine years ago, I was in eight years younger. I was an eight-year, eight-years younger. I was a little more volatile. Maybe I was a little less confident that what I was doing was working out. And I also had teenagers. My kids are 19 and 18 right now. When they were 12 and 13, maybe it was a little trickier, maybe it was newer territory.

But as with all experience, once you become familiar with the variety of options and variables, then all of a sudden you know, hey, I've seen this, it can't go that far. Maybe to go out to here and I know how to stop it to get it from there or how to promote it to get to there. I actually, I mean, I strong people often talk to me as if somehow meditation has made everything perfect for me. I think it's multifactorial.

For me, just for me, it's maturation. I'm married well. Meditation is part of it. It's just one piece. I would agree with you 100%. So you were very, very kind. Even though we don't know each other well, I reached out to you about a year ago

and asked you for a big favor, which is that at that point I was just launching my 10% happier app. And I asked you to try it out and make these little videos. Well, I enjoyed sending in my little videos from the beginning. They were great. And I want to quote from one of the little videos where you said, at one point you said that one of the things you really took from the little lessons from me in my meditation

teacher Joseph Goldstein was learning to respond and not react. And you said, that'll be a big lesson for me. I tend to go off half-cocked, not prepared, emotional only all the time. So is that still a problem for you sometimes? I mean, we talked about it just a little bit earlier. I just looked at this way. No one's perfect. But that said, I can usually postpone my response now by a good 60 seconds, which is a mile and a half on a long path toward doing the right thing. Of course. So I've learned to, my first thing is I try to put

on my Bob DeNiro face. Hm. Hm. And I try to think. Hm. Hm. And if I can do that, it brings a smile to my face no matter what situation it is.

Because I know I don't look at Bob DeNiro, but I think that he's quite a comical character. And then I try to breathe through and think, what would be the first thing I would say, and what could be the best thing I could say, and then what am I gonna say? And if I can get to that point in my mind, I'm already 30% better.

No, well that's not only 10, 30. Dude, you're probably a thousand percent better, because that's mindfulness in action right there, which is not just saying the first thing that comes to mind which can often ruin the next 72 hours of your marriage or your work relationship. Or your life or your restaurant business or your whatever. Yes. So it's work for me, but like keep in mind sometimes the funniest things you're going to say are the ones that you don't consider very long. So you have to be able to turn it on and turn it off, right? I mean, it's more in confrontation that I find that to work, but not in all

facets of my thoughtful being. I think that's actually an excellent point and that brings us to the chew because when you're on the chew, you're very funny and you... I'm uneditable too. Right, you don't want to be, you don't want to overthink everything. Right, no, you can't. Well, I can't. I mean, because what became very evident at the beginning of the chew production process was like after the third day they wanted to retake the opening. I'm like don't let them do it. We can't let them do it Then it won't feel like a live show and it'll suddenly feel like one of those overproduced daytime shows that we know a lot about I said don't ever don't I told the whole crew. Please don't let them Have us redo it making a mistake is actually funnier than doing it exactly right because this isn't a movie This is a daytime TV show and we all kind of got together including the producers and we say, yeah, let's just let it

roll. It'll be so much more relaxed. Now that doesn't mean that if I make an unsavory remark every now and then because they pass through by mine just like my sancticity does. That every now and then you'll look at the cameraman after seeing all of it, they'll be like, that line is never going to make it. Oh, because they do edit. They'll edit just a little bit, and they'll cut away, like maybe I'm saying something under my breath, or maybe I'm saying something directly, and they'll cut away from it and go to somebody else's face for just a second.

When they first came to you with the chew, did you think, I have a ton of restaurants, all these books, all this charity work, I can't do this. You know, when it started, because it was gonna be a daily show, we thought it was going to be live, which means you go on at one o'clock and go off at two. So how early could you have to show up?

How late would you have to stay, you know? And because I'm together, like, when the two crew needs something done, and there's five of us, and we're all five getting back to them quickly, if they want it done fastest, like they need a recipe really quickly, they say, give it to the busiest person, because I'm capable of responding immediately to that kind of a request. So we have our recipes in all in and everything's all set up. As it turns out, it's not live. It's live to tape, just like most of the TV shows and the late night shows. And it was going to be four days, but now it's three days a week.

So when we figured out how much time it would take, I figured seven to one really by the time it's one o'clock. Most of my friends are really not really having done that much It would be a great way to get a jumpstart on a lot of things and then beyond you hang who you hanging out with it They're not getting anything done by one Shaps like artists and chefs who opened in restaurants in the PM Fair enough. What time do you go to bed? Um to get enough sleep? I think so. I think I feel pretty good about it I mean I've always been the guy that went to bed last and get enough sleep? I think so. I think I feel pretty good about it. I've

always been the guy that went to bed last and got up first. And that's just because provided you're not drinking yourself to sleep. I don't need. I could live on five hours for a long time, five hours a night. And then what I believe firmly in, and I'm sure that most of the sleep specialists listening to this right now are going to start writing you a note, I'm a firm believer in sleep banking. I think that if you sleep extra for like three months in a row, you have a little cushion you can draw. It's like a little account. I, this is an area where I know nothing, so I won't. Well, it's worth for me. Like, I mean, I'm not breaking down. I feel healthy. My, you know, my numbers are in the reasonable

world for someone my size. And it looks like I'm performing quite well. Yeah, I think you're performing extremely well. On the issue of spirituality, would you call yourself a religious man? I would call myself an anti-religious man. I'm a firm believer in your own personal spirituality. I'm a firm believer in the energy of the universe being universal. And in fact, that when we come into the earth, it's a brand new piece of something.

But when we go into the earth, when we leave the earth, our energy reenters the flow. And that's ecstasy, and that's eternal. And it's something remarkable. And I'm not worried about death. I'm not sure where I came from to get that spark other than something remarkable and creative. But I don't believe that there is a deity or a creature

who is in charge of this. You are not worried about death? No. Why does it scare you? It's just part of the... It's actually an entry into another ecstatic position of this very piece of energy that's right here. I mean, I'm not looking forward to it.

I'm not rushing ahead to it. I'm not taking unusual risks because I want to spend as much time as I can with my family. But like when time comes, I've seen what looks like to me and I've met a lot of very older people and half of them are like still smoking a cigar every day and having a great time and half of them are living in places where they are not having a good time. And that's living beyond our expiration date

and I don't have a problem with science doing that. I'm just not sure that I'm going to want to do that. You had a near death experience, which I heard you discuss with our mutual friend Brian Coppen on this podcast. Can you tell me a little bit about what happened to you? I had a cerebral aneurysm about equidistant in the center here, just off of what they perceive to be olfactory and taste.

It's when a, what looks like a little piece of I mean a little piece of your brain bloodstream looks like a little tiny inner tube and there's a little bubble on it and you're born with it and that bubble pops eventually. It doesn't have to but it could be the category of a larger field or it could be just the weirdest little thing and it's because they're so rare they said well your children and your wife are now completely never going to get it because it's that rare of a thing. That said it popped and it felt like all of a sudden it was like you were about to open

a new restaurant. I was at the dishwasher machine at Lupa preparing for the wedding of my partner Jason Denton and I'm looking over the guy's shoulder and I say so how do we make sure the dryer is actually going to go all the way through? And I was like, oh, these little man is talking to me on my foot. What does he say when I'm like, this is either a flashback or something.

And I went outside and it kind of subsided. And then for the next like six hours, it just felt a little bit more like a headache in the back of my neck. So I went to the hospital. I went to the Cabrini Hospital on 19th Street and 2nd Avenue and they said, let's take an X-ray and see what you got.

And they took something and it looked like a giant ping pong ball in my head. They said, we can't help you. We're going to have to move you somewhere else. And this is on a Friday night in the summer in New York City where there are gunshot wounds and angry, cut people and just the crazy situation. So they took me up to another hospital.

I kind of rested for the evening. A doctor came in the next morning said we have to operate. You have an aneurysm and we need to go in and clamp it, which they subsequently did. How lucky were you to survive? Five out of 10 diametrically. One out of five has four out of five of the remaining five have permanent damage. And so you were the one out of 10. One out of 10. 10%. Happy your day. You know what?

Thank you for keeping bringing it back to you. Keep bringing that back. You're a man who knows how to brand. What impact did that have on your outlook, your way of being in the world? Well, my first question to Dr. Is this a result of lifestyle or bad decisions? He said, no, this is congenital and whatever it is.

So I'm like, well, that feels better. At least I didn't screw myself up. When people ask me, how much did it change your behavior or change your life? I was already someone who was so deeply in love with my life and the things I get to do and realizing the giftedness of it, that it didn't change me that much. Yes, I made a past that unusual and I would hate to say fated experience. But I mean, if it was congenital, it was kind of fated, you know what I mean, but not fated like someone's up there playing the puppeteer.

But I still love my kids as much as I did before. And I love my wife as much as I love before. And I've gone on to create a lot more product. And I think Kaplamins Point was, this was a transition that made you more productive. You know, there's Alan Dukas famous chef was in an airplane crash walked away the only one that survived and suddenly

became the most three star Michelin chef in the world. I'm not sure and I asked him about that. I said, how much of that change? We said, you know, what it did, it made me waste a little bit less time. Which is a very interesting way to look

at it. Like if your perception of wasting time is just merely lounging around and leisure, I'm not sure that's a waste of time. I think maybe wasting time on projects that weren't going to come to fruit is probably the better way to kind of figure that out. And I've tried to edit that, but I've, you know, I'm still, I mean, we have 28 restaurants. We have 4,000 employees. That when I was, at that point, I had, I was opening, I was my third restaurant and we had 80 employees. Brian Coppeman just for those who don't know he is he's one of the writers of the showtime show Billions he also has a podcast called The

Moment which is definitely worth listening to. Yes. You make an effort. Pretty good golfer. Is your good? And a REM fan which is where we bonded first. REM and golf brought us together. I know nothing about golf, you know, I grew up in the back nine of a golf course, but they didn't let Jews in. But I love REM, so I won't share that passion with you. You mentioned Alan Dukas, how much competition is there among elite chefs? Do you get some pangs of jealousy when you look at these guys?

There's a difference between jealousy and competition. Jealousy is like when someone does something really good and you're just proud of them but you're also like man that's so great i wish i thought of it first but you you can't possibly think of everything first you know i'm incredibly jealous of my good buddy Tony bourdain he got to have lunch with president Obama yeah in hanoi yeah so like there's jealousy but it's not like you want to do him bad actually what you really want to sit on have a beer and talk to him about what they really said that didn't get made to the, you know, the

eater.com or wherever the hell this information lives. But like in New York City, having we have 10 restaurants in New York, for us, we don't have to beat anybody to get the customer in our chair. We just have to be good enough that they remember to come back. Because a lot of restaurants fall by the side or the road side or the way side because people forget to hear about them. Because they're not, they just haven't been on the press or they haven't done anything or they haven't changed their menu or whatever. I mean, 20 years ago, it wasn't like there was instant virtual simultaneous newscasting of the chef putting the oyster on the plate like there is now.

So it's a lot easier for chefs and restaurant tours to play in the game of the PR world than it used to be, but some people are better at it, and also some people are by definition just doing something that's more challenging or more newsworthy than making a great hamburger or a great, you know, cheeseburger or lobster salad or whatever. So, for us, the thing is to be in a good position so that as the city gets busier, all boats rise at, you know rise at that tide. And when it goes back down, just to make sure that you're paying attention to the contraction so that you're still making profit, meaning you don't have as many people working on the floor as many people in the kitchen. Like

we look at it as something that kind of ebbs and flows and the success of that is not having a full walk in on an empty week or a full staff on an empty night. So we pay attention to that kind of nuance, because we're multi-unit guys, maybe a smaller restaurant or isn't starting to think like that. The competition versus jealousy issue we were discussing a moment ago,

have you gotten better at that with time? Did you, did you, did you, did you, did you, did you? Yeah, well, I mean, realizing that I had my position already set, I'm set, but I mean, that we had had had a great success and I measure my success by how many of my good pupils have gone on to open their own restaurants Like that that for me is a good thing. I like them to move on and Show their greatness or eventually become partners with me as we like Josh Lerano at La Serena was a sous chef at Del posto then he was the chef in the morning at Bobble, and then he was the PM chef at Lupa, and now he's a chef partner.

And having that happen means as I go into the kitchens and into the dining rooms of all the restaurants, I say, listen, look at Josh Lerano, or look at a wine waiter who is now the wine director for Jeff Porter, started as a wine waiter, and now he's the wine director and beverage director for five restaurants. Like I say listen, you pay attention and you do the right thing and you show up early and you stay clean and you do the right thing all day long and stay 10 minutes late to make sure everything's in order. You can possibly be my partner.

I mean there's that Yiddish term, naxas, you know, like this kind of warm and fuzzy. They must give you some naxas to see these people that you helped raise and the profession go on. To use another phrase, I would kvele about them forever. That could use of Yiddish, Vitaly. When we come back, what is the thing you're working on now that nobody knows about that you're most excited about? Stick around. Hey there listeners.

While we take a little break here, I want to tell you about another podcast that I think you'll like. It's called How I Built This, where host Guy Razz talks to founders behind some of the world's biggest and most innovative companies, to learn how they built them from the ground up. Guy has sat down with hundreds of founders behind well-known companies like Headspace, Manduke Yoga mats, Soul Cycle, and Koto Paxi, as well as entrepreneurs working to solve some of the biggest problems of our time.

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wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and add free on the Amazon or Wondery app. You can listen early and add free on the Amazon or Wondery app. I know the answer to this, but I think our listeners might be interested to hear it. How did you start cooking? You know the answer? That's interesting. Um, well, all of my family, exactly. That was my first professional job. Okay. But I mean, we started cooking when I was growing up in the eastern side of Washington state. We cooked, like we pickled everything. We made on the Eastern side of Washington. We started washing this thing.

So I was born in Seattle, then I moved to Yakima, then I moved back to Seattle, and then we went to Spain to go to high school. And in all of that time, in the summer, we would forge for wild berries, we would make pickles, we would make all this stuff. And everyone, men, woman, everybody, all my aunts and uncles, all my cousins are great cooks. They just never, it was, keep in mind when I became a cook in 1978. It was the last thing you did after you got out of the military before you went to jail.

It was the lowest common denominator, anybody can peel potatoes to help make soup. So it was not the job your mom would brag to your neighbors about. And it just turned out to be the right time. So all my cousins are all working, you know, some of them, they're such obsessive fly fishermen that they went to work for Boeing so that they could have access to these micro fiber super elastic stuff to build their fly fishing rods. Like they're crazy that way. So we grew up in a very family, I mean a very food-obsessed family. Then when I got to college and I needed some money, I went to work in a place called

Stuff Your Face, a New Brunswick New Jersey, which if you haven't been, it merits a visit. They make strumbolis, two sizes, large and huge. And it's everything is fresh, like they were miles ahead of the farm to table monger. Like they were making broccoli or cauliflower or mushroom strumbolis, not with canned stuff and pickled stuff, with fresh stuff, just rolling it inside that pizza dough, with a little tomato sauce. It was delicious. And I believe it was $3.85 for a large and $7 for a huge. Still, prices have to get there. I think they've gone up a bit, and I don't know the385 for a large and $7 for a huge. Still, the prices have to be.

I think they've gone up a bit, and I don't know the answer to exactly, but it's still a good value. Did you do that at Rutgers? Is that Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey? And after stuff your face, what happened? I graduated and I went to the court on blue in London. And then I worked for this crazy guy named Mark O'Pierre White, who was the youngest at first British-born kid to win three Michelin stars,

and the youngest kid to win three Michelin stars, but at that time back in the 80s. What do you think of veganism? I think vegetables are excellent. I think a plant-based diet is a very healthy way to extend your life and probably increase mobility and certainly get rid of issues with, you know, things that happen when you're swelling.

And inflammation. Inflammation. But for a chef, like, it's easy for a vegan or a vegetarian to come to one of my restaurants because we use predominantly extra virgin olive oil. And like pasta with vegetables, we have on the menu without anybody having to say, I'm a vegan, what are you gonna make for me?

Like, we have a lot of vegan opportunities. That said, as a chef, to remove an entire category of stuff would be like telling Tishin, I'm sorry Tishin, we're out of rent. What would you like to work with on this case? And so for me, I'm omnivorous and I'm proudly so, but like, I must say that compared to my diet 20 years ago, I'm eating a lot more plant-based stuff than I used to. Does the animal cruelty argument resonate with you somewhere? I'm not a vegan. I eat a lot of meat and dairy and all that stuff.

But somewhere in my brain, animal cruelty argument is nagging at. What, that we kill them and eat them? Or that we mistreat them and then kill them at that part See I think what what where the where the movement is gone in the meat world and the poultry world is Treating the animals better makes them taste better. It costs a little bit more But it's a price a customer is willing to pay So they'll pay more for really good meat, so you're not getting factory farm. No, of course not That would be a bad business move for me.

Weed because it doesn't taste good. What just doesn't taste good. Like any opportunity to upgrade the flavor of something that I'm making, and it means also buying at the green market and not buying at wholesale, because the green market guys have no interest in selling me something that they could sell at full price to a regular customer who's still going to show up at 4 o'clock.

We get at the green market at 6.30 while they're setting up and we get the best strawberry or the best asparagus or the best mushroom. Like it's important for us to have that because capturing that effinessant, that ephemeral flavor of the way the wind blows through the Hudson Valley on a Thursday afternoon, right? Before they harvest stuff is what makes our food more distinct. It's not cheating, but it's faster and easier way

to get your food to taste really good because it's geospecific, like it tastes like what it's supposed to taste like. So if I'm worried and I am about animal cruelty, just don't eat factory farms. Well yeah, I mean do you know the word caffo? No, it's the feed lots that they use for factory farming and you look at a picture of this stuff and it is, it's as if they are submerged in sh**, I mean, they're, they, they can't have a good day, these animals. And the super small, uh, chicken coops that are just packed in, you know, and they're using chickens that were crippled, you know, it's just like, if you buy things that were grown kind of naturally, like they were 80 years ago, you stand a much better chance

of that animal having a much better health system in its own body, you make sure they don't have antibiotics or growth hormones, and already you can tell, like, you make sure they don't have antibiotics or growth hormones. And already you can tell, like, you get a stake every now and then you're like, this is just tough and not very tasty. That was growth hormone meat. That's why it's tough and not tasty. How do I know when I go to the store? You go to a store that tells you exactly where they are,

for example, Italy. Like we tell you exactly what I say it's mine. It is mine. When we just tell people what it is. Easily is this imporium of EAT ALY. Correct. Right here in Lower Manhattan, it's just a crazy like Epcot Center for the most amazing food on Earth

that you open with a partner or two. With my partner, Joe Bossionic, and then the Fadi Nethi family and the Saper family. Anyway, so I just wanted to set the two. Yeah, yeah, anyway. It wasn't supposed to be an illegal plug. What it was. No, no, I like plug.

If you can go to a place who is about the transparency of information and everything about Italy is that. We want you to understand exactly what you're eating and it's all about biodiversity and slow food. That said, when you go to the butcher counter, they'll tell you where this meal was from, where this lamb was from, where this beef was from,

how old it is, what it's got. And then if you're really interested, you can go to their website and find out exactly what they fed these animals and how they treat them. That's awesome. And that's why it costs more. I eat these amazing. And just can I just say something about illegal plugs? This is a podcast, man. You should plug away. People who are listening, they want to know everything about you. You should plug everything. Especially since everything you do is pretty much awesome. What's the deal with the orange crocs? My wife, when we were just starting to date back in 1993, we got married in 1994, gave me these orange Italian operating room clogs called CalZero, and I think they went out of business. But right when they were

going out of business, crocs were just starting. And I discovered them at the Aspen Food and Wine Festival because they started an Aspen as shoes to go fishing in streams with them because they would drain right out and leak. And Orange was clearly my family color because my wife helped me choose it is the color of happiness. I stuck with them and I take a lot of heat on the fashion blogs but none in the comfort blogs. Well, what are the people on the fashion blogs? They hate it. They think this is ridiculous. A full grown adult in his 50s,

wearing plastic shoes is pathetic. And I'm like, oh yes, I'm comfortable and I'm pathetic. And it's just like whatever. That said, there's another story to the orange. And I'll tell it to you, because the very first time I was able to take my children out without my wife and go to the Houston Ball Park, which is, it looks, from where we grew up, you would call it a parking lot.

It's Houston and Sixth Avenue, right next door to Dos Savano. There's a basketball court and a place where, that's where all our kids would hang out when I was growing up. And when they were about two and three, two and three and a half, it was my day. I took my kids out for the first time. And I'm sitting over in the corner and I'm watching them in their plan. Then I

start chatting with one of my buddies and he said, where's Beno? I'm like, because at that point in the village, and this is in the late 90s, all the kids were black or gray, because we were groovy New Yorkers. And it occurred to me that I couldn't see my children. So the very next day we got them yellow and orange coats and I could pick my kids out from a long ways away without any of the discomfort. I had immediately thought I'd killed my children or they'd been kidnapped.

And they hadn't. They were playing on the other side of the field, just as innocently they would have been a favorite front of me, but I did not have complete control of the situation or even marginal control. Because I had to go look around carefully to see if I could find them.

Now that they're 19 and 20, do you still dress them like they could get lost in a small storm or? I don't dress them anymore. You're not allowed. They wear their pants lower than I would ever tolerate. And they are a much gruelvere. And unfortunately they're both kind of into these luxury brands and I'm just like, you know what? This is it. This is the last year. Next year when you're making some kind of money, like maybe making $10 an hour or whatever, whatever minimum wage will be that year, you'll look back on the days that we bought you that pair of Yeezes or whatever the heck it is or whatever jacket it was that you wanted.

That we don't even know what like hell's angels. No, that's not that. There's some company with something about God. I don't even know where these clothes come from, but they're there and they're expensive. I had read that the orange crocs were actually discontinued and then you just stockpiled them. Well, because I'm a part-time spokesperson for Crocs. They told me... They paid for this?

Well, they give me like, you know, a piece of business on the ones that have my signature on them. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And they said, listen, we're discontinuing your orange. I'm like, first of all, that's a stupid move. That's the best color there is you guys have. Apparently, it was not the biggest seller. People were reading the fashion books.

Notwithstanding you. Notwithstanding my incredible, whatever you want to call it. And so they said, listen, we're closing the color. I said, well, listen, can you run me a few pair? And they said, well, how much? I said, well, what's a small batch? And they said, well, a small batch is 2000. But we can do a micro batch of 200.

I said, 200. I quickly did the math. I used two and a half pairs a year. Yeah, that's a lifetime supply. I'll take them. So they're hanging in my office across these little strings. And when I need a new pair, I go get them. It's like for a big fancy event. Like if I was going to have dinner with Obama, I'd get a new pair out. Because they're shinier.

So you actually only wear these. If you had dinner with Obama, it would be crocs. Oh, completely. Not patent leather, like crocs. Obama's not impressed by your shoe selection. He'd be more impressed that you chose something that he didn't recognize. Is there anything you'd like to do? If you had dinner with Obama, it would be crocs. Oh, completely. Not patent leather, like, crocs. Obama's not impressed by your shoe selection. He'd be more impressed that you chose something that he didn't recognize.

Is there anything, any occasion that would be formal enough for you to ditch the crocs? What do you mean formal? Do you mean like dress like everybody else? No, there isn't one of those. I will wear these to my children's wedding if I'm still wearing these shoes, because they're comfortable, and it's a signature. It's like, ask Martha Stewart, what do you say?

That's a good thing. She'll say that for the rest of her life. It's a signature. Fair enough. Fair enough. I solicited some questions for you on Twitter. One of them. What are some of the up and coming under the radar ethnic cuisines that might be next to

go mainstream in the US. I don't know that they'll ever get mainstream, but the varied cuisines of China and India, which have a very good foothold now on the seven train path out into Queens, are some of the most exciting cooking going on. They're use of spice, they're use of unusual protein or extra awful. Their way with noodles, their cultural understanding of the magnificence of the entire animal is something that is inspirational and delicious. And for me, not something I'm that familiar with. But I will go out with a guy like Jonathan Gold or Tony Bourdain or anybody who's

happens to pay attention to that space. And we will take the seven train deep into Queens and taste food you've never seen before. I don't think it's going to be in peoria next month though, you know what I mean? But it could be eventually. Right. I would say what's going to take peoria next is I think vegetables are going to move a little bit toward the center of the plate. I think we're going to try to get rid of super high fat proteins in a way that's not good for your body and yet still be able to eat cheeseburgers

Every now and then I would hate to give up cheeseburg. I don't think we have to I just think you can eat five cheeseburgers in five days and I think the processed carbohydrate is the big protein I mean the big the big issue there is getting rid of any kind of bread or Starche product that has been removed from all fiber so that you will eat a 900 calorie muffin and be hungry in 10 minutes is gonna go away. Do you have a favorite meat to barbecue slash smoke slash grill out? Barbecue is the slow roasting of meat through smoke. I love the pork shoulder. Grill I like a skirt steak because it's inexpensive and delicious. And smoke I also like making my own brisket or bacon.

What is the thing you're working on now that nobody knows about that you're most excited about? We're going to open four utilities in a year's time. Whoa. And we're working on a green gastronomic theme park outside of Bologna. Wow. So it'll be about food decisions but it'll all be interactive. I'm not sure if we're having rides yet but we're trying to figure them out. But the fact that you can go in and get kind of the information that everybody should know in a child-friendly and adult-friendly way in the same place, kind of like a Disney land, Disney world. The Italians make good decisions already.

Why don't you need this in America? Well, I don't know if you're aware of our number one export to Europe, but it's obesity and diabetes. They're trying to fight it and figure it out right now because they're kind of savvy that way. What do you say to this back to meditation and then I'm gonna leave you alone? What do you say to somebody who's interested in meditation but they just can't make it happen?

I tell them it's just like anything like like moderation like political tolerance, try it and then if it doesn't stand naturally, try it again and keep going back at it. I have probably told a thousand people about 10% happier because it's a very low threshold. They can easily jump on that and they follow up on it and some people don't do it and I was just talking with my good partner from the spot at Big this weekend. He said, listen, I just can't do it. I said, well, if you couldn't do it, try it again this week. See what happens.

It's not, you don't have to fire every day on it. But if you find that it makes you relaxed and make better decisions, why wouldn't you just do it a little bit more often? Like do it for a whole weekend of row and tell me how you feel because he's like me. He's young Younger than me, but prone to like saying quick things in a time when it would have been better just to wait another thirty seconds You can do that you can you can minimize damage you can maximize profit by everyone liking you just a little bit more or you being tolerant of Variations in behavior and strategies at doing the work that you've hired someone to do in a way that makes it a lot better

I have a good friend his name is Sam Harris. He we're not related, but he's a he's one of my Spiritual leaders in the non-religious characters. Sam Harris is a great friend of mine He has this thing about he's a big meditator and he talks about the difference Between the amount of damage you can do in two minutes of anger versus an hour and a half of anger. And that is where the rubber hits the row with meditation. It's incalculable. Two minutes of anger. You know, maybe a few bad things can happen. Hour and a half of anger, lives can be ruined. It's huge, huge. And I would agree with him. I would agree with just about anything Sam Harris said, don't you not say?

That's a smart character. It's a smart policy to follow. Mario Batali, one of the world's greatest chefs, a very, very cool man. Thank you very much for doing this. My pleasure, sir. Alright, there's another edition of the 10% happier podcast. If you like it, I'm going to hit you up for a favor. Please subscribe to it, review it, and rate it.

I want to also thank the people who produced this podcast, Josh Kohan, Lauren Efron, Sarah Amos, and the head of ABC News Digital, Dan Silver. You can see a video version of the podcast at ABCNews.com and hit me up at Twitter, Dan B. Harris. See you next time. and hit me up at Twitter, Dan B. Harris. See you next time. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ Hey, hey, prime members. You can listen to 10% happier early and ad-free on Amazon Music.

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