Ten Percent Happier with Dan Harris - How to Stay Calm No Matter What’s Happening | Sebene Selassie and Jeff Warren

Episode Date: February 21, 2024

A master class in equanimity. It’s the latest installment of our Meditation Party series. Live from Omega.Sebene Selassie describes herself as a “writer, teacher, and immigrant-weirdo.” She teaches meditation on the Ten Percent Happier app and is the author of a great book called You Belong. She’s based in Brooklyn. Jeff Warren is also a writer and a meditation teacher. He and Dan co-wrote the book, Meditation for Fidgety Skeptics. He also hosts the Consciousness Explorers podcast. He’s based in Toronto. Tickets for the two more Meditation Party retreats this year at the Omega Institute in Rhinebeck, New York are available now. The last one was a blast. Come join us for both. One is in May, the other October. For tickets to Dan Harris: Celebrating 10 Years of 10% Happier at Symphony Space: click hereRelated Episodes:Meditation Party: The “Sh*t Is Fertilizer” Edition | Sebene Selassie & Jeff WarrenMeditation Party with Sebene Selassie and Jeff Warren: Psychedelics, ADHD, Waking Up From Distraction, and Singing Without Being Self-ConsciousMeditation Party: Magic, Mystery, Intuition, Tattoos, and Non-Efforting | Sebene Selassie and Jeff WarrenNirvana | Joseph Goldstein A More Relaxed Way to Meditate | Alexis Santos Sign up for Dan’s weekly newsletter hereFollow Dan on social: Instagram, TikTokTen Percent Happier online bookstoreSubscribe to our YouTube ChannelOur favorite playlists on: Anxiety, Sleep, Relationships, Most Popular EpisodesFull Shownotes: https://www.tenpercent.com/tph/podcast-episode/medparty-omegaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to 10% happier early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What the fuck is this? It just sounds like how all retreats begin. I realized I was walking out here and I was like, man, I'm old. I brought a sweater, Dan Harris. Hello, everybody. How we doing? As an anxious person, the holy grail for me is equanimity, the skill of staying calm, no matter what's happening. I'm still very much in the beginning phases of developing this skill, but I'm definitely working on it.

Today, you're gonna get a masterclass in equanimity from two great teachers. As some of you may know, we recently launched a grand experiment putting on our first ever meditation retreat. We called it Meditation Party. We did it at Omega, which is a retreat center a couple of hours north of New York City, was basically a live version of the Meditation Party. We did it at Omega, which is a retreat center a couple of hours north of New York City was basically a live version of the

Meditation Party episodes we've been doing here on the show. In fact, today is yet another Meditation Party episode. The retreat, while I'm on the subject, was amazing. More than 400 people came. By the way, we're gonna do two more Meditation Party retreats in May and in October, so you can buy your tickets in the show notes. In this episode, which is an experiment in and of itself, we're going to play you some clips from some of the most interesting and useful moments from the retreat. It all starts with a discussion about equanimity that Jeff Sevin and I had immediately after Jeff let us in one of the early meditations during the course of the retreat. After that you're going to hear a montage, a mealange of sorts of the best questions we received throughout the weekend from the audience, both live and on Zoom. Jeff and Seb gave some great answers to these questions and there was also a ton of really funny stuff in here. That's what surprised me the most about the party. It was really funny. So I think you're going

to find this enjoyable and hopefully quite useful. Before we dive in, many of you know Seb and Jeff, but for those who don't, Seb Anastasi describes herself as a writer, teacher, and immigrant weirdo. She teaches meditation on the 10% happier app and is also the author of a great book called You Belong. Jeff Warren is also a writer and meditation teacher. He and I co-wrote the book Meditation for Fidgety Skeptics. He also co-hosts the Consciousness Explorers podcast. When you visit Audible, there are endless ways

to ignite your imagination. With over 750,000 titles, including best sellers, there's a listen for every type of listener. Discover all the best in audiobooks, podcasts and originals, featuring authentic Canadian voices and celebrity talent. Check out Audible Canadian Originals, including The Downloaded, a sci-fi adventure featuring Brendan Fraser and Luke Kirby. A first listen is waiting for you when you start your free trial at audible.ca.

Hello, I am Alice Levine and I am one of the hosts of Wondries podcast British Scandal. On our latest series The Race to Ruin we tell the story of a British man who took part in the first ever round the world sailing race. Good on him I hear you say, but there is a problem as there always is in this show. The man in question hadn't actually sailed before. Oh, and his boat wasn't sea worthy. Oh, and also tiny little detail almost didn't mention it. He bet his family home on making it to the finish line. Watten-Sewed was one of the most complex cheating plots in British sporting history. To find out the full story, follow British scandal wherever you listen to podcasts

or listen early and ad-free on Wondry Plus on Apple Podcasts or the Wondry App. For me, what came up at one point was just the realization. There's that, I don't know who first said it, but that idea that sometimes you get soaked by a rainstorm, but if you walk through fog or mist, you get slowly soaked and the same level of wetness from both, one is immediate. And I was just reflecting on how I used to always make meditation a problem.

You know, it's always struggling with it, and with life really. And it was just so, it was really peaceful in this way that I just felt like the mist was finally seeping in. That my mind wandered at times and I brought it back, but there was this level of oakeness with whatever was happening that was just really, really lovely. Can anyone else relate to that, that a level of oakeness

that would creep in here and there? Here and there. Oh, yeah. I totally know that. It's like the slow trickle down. A lot of it for me is about the patience. If I just remember that I'm not in a rush, I'm not trying to get to the end of the meditation, which I often am.

I get to the end of this thing. I'm done being, I gotta get to doing. If I can just remember that I'm not actually in a rush, that patient's quality itself can really shift the whole feeling tone of the meditation. Yeah, and I felt it as it's not always like that, but I've really felt it as the fruits of the practice one, just decades of practice, but also a choice. I really felt it. Oh, I'm choosing this choosing to just Be okay with whatever is happening

Is that connected to your tattoo trust life? You know, we all have tattoos under about meditation instructions instructions minus trust life. We're actually plotting to get more as a trio. Yeah, matching tattoos, wouldn't that be cute? I'm gonna get Dan's head on my back going. With the ABC mug. We are at the first weekend of my new cult, so... I expect to see more of those tattoos going through. But is it connected to... I think so, yeah, I think you're right.

That there's something about that equanimity piece that is really just about allowing whatever is happening and then choosing the response. So it's not that I have to like what's in front of me if it's injustice or harm, but there's this capacity to just be fully present with what's happening. Yeah, well some teachers talk about that as right attitude. Like I've heard Tibetan teachers say the most important thing

in your practice is to set your attitude to debating that, hey, basically to welcome things to the party, to have this attitude of not uptightness of just like, oh, can I have that? And so you kind of like set that as an intent. Setting an intention in the beginning of a practice is very powerful. I used to never get the word intention,

like, all right, I just would be a just blanket annoyed by it. And then I started to understand how either there's a great, we like this woman, Carolyn Casey, she's an astrologer, she's a brilliant woman. She says, imagination lays the tracks for the reality train to follow. That we harness our imagination at the beginning of a practice in a sense to set an intention for how we want to feel, for the way we want to relate to our experience. And that becomes something that is a kind of organizing principle. And it's very powerful and it works.

Yeah, and I think that word welcoming is so key. It's like really everything belongs. If we're in contention with anything that arrives, that's going to create the tension. That's going to create the problems. So we really open to it all. Yeah. And then you realize that you are in contention with like all these things you didn't even notice

you were in contention. Yes, yes. That's part of the practice is going, oh wow, I'm really uptight about this one thing. And I didn't even notice that uptightness until things got a little more settled. Yeah. There's a meditation teacher I've never actually met

but I've been influenced by him quite a bit. His name is Syedah Utejnia, a Burmese guy. He is the teacher for somebody who I have been influenced by directly, who everybody, we're all friends with this guy, his name is Alexis Santos, and some of you probably familiar with him. And one of the phrases that Tejaniah uses in his teaching, and this has been picked up by many other teachers too, so you may have heard of this, is what's

the attitude in the mind right now, sometimes referred to as an attitude check. And I love dropping that into my mind, in my meditation and in my life because it's a little bit like, there were these famous, I've used this analogy before and I love it, there were these famous reports that a former colleague of mine on ABC News named Chris Cuomo did in the aughts

where he went into hotel rooms with a black light and shined it onto all the sheets and it was disgusting. That's what happens when you ask, what's the attitude in the mind? Well. You're not gonna like what you see, but if you don't ask, you won't see it.

And when you don't see it, it's owning you. And... Exactly. So I do that in my practice a lot, but what I found great about the meditation we just did is that your emphasis on equanimity from the jump as an intention, as the tracks that reality, the reality train can follow, really turned the volume up on the attitude check from the start for me that was really helpful and I was just an attitude of it's all good and there was a lot of sleepiness coming up for me because I had trouble sleeping

last night for no good reason and yeah it's alright if I fall asleep here and wake up with a very loud snore and it's humiliating in front of all of you All right, it's all good, you know and there's something about just being cool with it. That is magic Here's a bit of Buddhist nerdiness Upeka which is translated as equanimity and nibbana enlightenment are used interchangeably Oh, I totally get that. Yeah, I think it's all about equanimity and Nibbana enlightenment are used interchangeably for alcoholic content. Oh, I totally get that. I think it's all about equanimity.

I'm obsessed with it, but I'm obsessed with it. My newsletter is called The Economist Pages, or it used to be or something, like a joke on The Economist, The Economist. I even have The Economist font that I didn't know what it was. The Economist, it sounds like a marsupial from down under. The economist lives in Tasmania. Totally.

It's hopelessly nerdy. I'm going to change the title. But the... You know, I think about the fruits of what the practices give me. Most of it is space. Most of it is the capacity to come to a place of just being available to what's here in a very natural, easy way,

not trying to fight with what's here. Someone's intent in front of me, not, you know, or not, or not, but just, okay, just let the intensity of this person go right, flow right through me. Be here, you know, but just, okay, just let the intensity of this person go flow right through me, be here. It doesn't mean I don't have a boundary in some way, but there's a sense of just being able to not, not need to run away from my experience

to be able to stay right here. Sometimes I give it as being in the middle. And it feels like something, it feels like a kind of inner smoothness, it's like an inner looseness of just not being contracted. And I think the more you practice, that's one of the primary flavors of what comes into experience. And as you soften in that way, your boundaries,

the rigid ways you imagine your ego to be and the way the organizing principles start to get softer in the way the organizing principles start to get softer in that way too and that to me is the direction that practice leads. One way to think about it anyway. And so we are going to do some Q&A and some sharing. That's a word that Blanket annoys me. Um... Sharing? Yeah. I don't like the word sharing. You're over here like being a mystic

and a Buddhist nerd bowing after every bell and like, but you don't like the word sharing? I can just put your Dan in kindergarten like, no. No. No. Okay. I mean, all of that is true, but... You're like a walking paradox. I'm not against the concept of actually sharing shit you have with other people. It's the thank you for sharing after every comment that drives me fucking bad shit.

That's what I'd all like. Oh, thank you. Well, thank you for sharing, Dan. Thank you for sharing. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha I'm Afwa Hirsh. I'm Peter Frankopane. And in our podcast, Legacy, we explore the lives of some of the biggest characters in history. This season, we delve into the life of Mikhail Gorbachev. This season has everything. It's got political ideology. It's got nuclear armageddon. It's got love story. It's got betrayal. It's got economic collapse.

One ingredient that you left out, legacy. Was he someone who helped make the world a better place, saved us all from all of those terrible things, or was he a man who created the problems and the challenges of many parts of the world today. Those questions about how to think about Gorbachev, you know, was he unwitting character in history, was he one who helped forge and frame the world? And it's not necessarily just a question of our making, there is a real life binary in

how his legacy is perceived. In the West, he's considered a hero, and in Russia, it's a bit of a different picture. So join us on Legacy for Mikhail Gorbachev. I'm hiring, but where can I find potential candidates? Hundreds of thousands of Canadians with disabilities are ready and eager to work. Help create an inclusive workplace that benefits everyone. Find the tools and resources to help you hire persons with disabilities at canada.ca slash right here. A message from the government of Canada.

A quick reminder that the free basics course in the 10% Happier app features my meditation teacher and great friend Joseph Goldstein, who will also be appearing live with me at Symphony Space in New York City on March 28th. Go to symphonyspace.org for tickets and download the 10% Happier app today wherever you get your apps. My question was kind of a general Buddhist philosophy question for you guys around attachment and non-attachment. And I've realized that a lot of my life has been driven by like attachment to future things.

So it's like I'm driven to get into dental school, to get out of dental to start a podcast, to start a practice. And I've hit this phase where like my brain knows that that next attachment isn't going to like serve me. It isn't going to bring me happiness. And so for a while, I've been waiting for like my next obsession, my next thing to be excited about. And the recent epiphany I've had is like maybe non-attachment is something I should explore, but it's also- To get obsessed about.

Right. It's also kind of terrifying. Like it sounds really boring and hard to kind of like function. And so I was just wondering from, you know, someone who's, you know, people who are driven or very obsessive, how to go about non-attachment and find fulfillment, rather than looking forward towards the next thing. I love that. You're with your buddies at a barbecue and everybody's talking about what they're in do with in lawn care,

the new car they got, and you're like the guy was like really into non-attachment. Everybody kind of backs away. Hey, this is for you. I mean, I don't know if it's for me in that, well, I've been thinking about my next tattoo might be Don't Cling because it's such a problem for me. I have had... I'm going to try to be vague for legal reasons. There's been some level of business stress in my life for the last couple of years, and I can get very knotted up around it.

And I was on a jag of a couple of days of really worrying about it. And I was flying back from Miami where I was giving a talk, and I arrived back at our house, and I was in a really bad mood. And as fortune or karma would have it, a guy named Joseph Goldstein was staying at our house that night,

who is, if you've never heard of him, a great meditation teacher, and I walk into the house and I open the door. And even before I can lay eyes on Joseph and my son who are watching football together, they start making fun of me. Oh, guess who's home? That kind of thing. And...

There is a kind of contact high to being around somebody who spent 60 years cultivating nonattachment. And we did talk about some of the things that are my mind. And the advice was really good. And there was also something about somebody who really doesn't cling that much. That is a great reminder. And I'm still kind of writing that of being able to recognize

that I'll be fine no matter what. Can I just say something? I wasn't, I didn't mean that in a judgy way. I meant it really as a point of admiration because you've done something really radical in leaving a very successful, very high profile career to dedicate your life to the betterment of the world. Thank you.

Yeah. And to tattoo that onto your arm. Well, that's what I did tattoo on, yeah. For the benefit of all beings. For the benefit of all beings. That hardly hurt probably. Was there judginess in that? Yes. For the benefit of all beings. For the great light font that hardly hurt probably. Was there judginess in that?

Our tattoo is going to be thick when we get it. But really, you know, the question is really around how do we stay true to our true desires, our good desires, are beneficial desires, and I feel like that's what you've been exploring for these years. Yes, and it's hard. It is hard. Yes, and I think if you commit yourself

to non-attachment or not clinging, it's not only gonna be weird and awkward at backyard barbecues, you're just gonna have to get used to screwing it up all the time and noticing the evidence of your unenlightenment on the regular. I stole that phrase from my friend Sam Harris. And it might be that there's an opportunity to do a slight bit of rebranding here, if you want to call it that. Nonattachment is one way to talk about it, but another way to talk about it is to get really curious

about being, about what is this thing that we're in. And that is the most profound inquiry you can begin in your life. And there can be a real excitement that opens up around that, a fervor that is good. There's an energy, an interest, a curiosity. There is more to learn here than we realize. You are not who you think you are in some ways.

There's a much bigger inheritance here. And so for me, and I have an intense tendency to fixation, and, you knowation as part of my makeup. And I did. When I first got interested in practice, I was very fixated. And part of that was good in the sense that there was a lot of energy for it. But part of that didn't serve me. A lot of it didn't because I was so obsessed

that I was constantly, my energy was constantly going out of control and I wasn't doing the basic ground of just learning how to settle in my body and be okay with a more delicate and gentle inquiry into what it is to kind of be here. So, and that's a feeling thing. So, you can explore just being here.

You can notice when that feels fixated and you can back off from that fixation energy a bit. It's a quality and experience and you can let it, and every time you breathe out and come back in that more leisurely way, that inquiry is still available and actually gets more enjoyable and it opens up. So I mean, that's a practice, but it's a very worthy practice.

Awesome. Thank you guys. Thank you. Who else has a question? Hi, I'm Kelly. And I just want to first gush and say thank you so much, Dan. Your book brought me to this practice. It's changed my life cataclysmically, truly, it really has. So I know that meditation is not about feeling great. You're not supposed to sit down and, oh, my life has changed, now I'm in a great mood and now I'm on my way.

The benefit is that for me at least, it really did change my life in a way where it stopped so much of my negative talk and so much of my storytelling to myself of what was going on and what my life was really turning into and brought me to true reality. And for the longest time, it of course made me feel good and changed so much about what I was doing. And now that I've been doing it for longer,

I find that occasionally I'll get into a rut where I just feel like my practice isn't reaching me. And then it happened almost consistently for a couple of weeks where I was feeling a bit heartbroken. I'm like, did I lose this? Did I lose the magic? And I just wanted to ask the experts, does that ever happen to you?

And what's your process to sort of revitalizing your experience? Yes, it happens to me all the time. So that's the first time it's happened to you? Yeah. When did you start practicing? I started practicing two years ago and then for the last year it's been a daily practice. Right. And in the past, and it's been what was about a few months ago that that started that...

No over the last two months and I was actually panicking thinking, oh no, I'm going to the retreat and I don't do this anymore. I can't really do this. So yeah, it was actually like within the last couple of months. Have you noticed that happened in other contexts of your life or areas of life where maybe you're doing a job, it's really great at first and then there's after a certain amount of time. No, it didn't really correlate with anything.

It was just, yeah. I'm trying to think maybe my sleep schedule is off. I don't know, but nothing specific. Let me just naturalize it for you. Anyone in this room feel it can relate to that report? So almost every single person in this room. So I think of it as your practice has seasons. And there's an initial spring season of novelty.

I mean, it's challenging at the season of kind of novelty. I mean, it's challenging at the very beginning, of course, to get concentrated, but there can be this kind of revelatory quality. Like, oh my gosh, you didn't realize what you were stuck in. And you get the principles. It's exciting. It's novel.

You have energy to do it. You're interested in it. And there can be this real sense of like, here I am. And then following spring, there's a summer, there's a great, there's kind of like you're getting deeper into the investigation, you're exploring, you're continuing to open, but summer changes to fall, the leaves come off the trees and it starts to get cold.

And I mean, in Buddhist insight practice, there's kind of a very clear description of this trajectory of like starting out, having more more peak experience and then moving into a challenging period where the novelty is not there anymore, there's harder to summon the energy, also through practice itself you're continuing to explore who you are and so it's like you're the exploration gets a little deeper and the next layer gets revealed and that can be when often when more challenging things are coming up.

Part of a mature practice is learning how to feel forsaken in your practice, how to feel like it's not working anymore, it's broken, and then that's a whole thing that I have a kind of maturity growing process. I mean, I'll just speak personally for me, that really happened. I felt heartbroken about it. And I had a long period. I mean, it happens in nested ways. It could happen within a single sit. And it happens over a retreat, whatever.

But I had a period of a bunch of years where it was just so awesome, the practice. It was so obviously working. I thought I got it all. And then it was gone. And I was a terrible meditator. And it was really desol And I was a terrible meditator, and it was really desolating, but you keep sitting.

And then you learn, can I be OK even with this? What if it didn't need to be anyway? Wait a second. Maybe that's what the practice is really about. And you keep sitting. So I mean, that's my take on it. I'd be curious for how you two think about that. And if you want to do any more awesome,

Socratic Method 7A. Well, yeah. I mean, I really relate. And my practice has changed over all these decades, many, many times. Different traditions, different styles, different techniques, periods where I didn't practice, periods where I practiced really intensely

and did lots of retreats and, you know, months of silent retreat. So it goes up and down. There was a period during the pandemic where I stopped having a formal practice. So I stopped sitting at all, you know, in terms of like having a cushion and a spot where I would practice all the time, but it was spontaneous. I didn't practice every morning at the same time in the same spot. And then that led to a period where I didn't practice

formally at all for about a year. And to me- I love that you said that, because I feel guilty about that. Because being a parent, it's like I find it very hard to find time for formal practice. I mean, that is your practice. Yeah, of course.

Yeah. Yeah, so I don't think that's a problem at all. I think that's part of just, for many of us, and there are some people, aliens, who are so just methodical and disciplined and have had the same exact practice for decades, the same time every day. That is not me. And I think finding your way into practice, and that's what I meant when I said I don't want to tell people how to practice and what to do. It's that every single one of us here

is going to have a unique practice. And anything that tells us we should practice in one way or another is not going to be true for all of us. And there are going to be some people who are attracted to Zen practice. It's very formal and very uniform. But those people are attracted to that practice. That doesn't mean we have to be attracted to that practice. It's very formal and very uniform. But those people are attracted to that practice. That doesn't mean we have to be attracted to that practice. So finding your practice

is the practice. And that's going to change because we all change. Thank you. More questions answered right after this. is all about the one and only Katie Price. You might think you know her, you might have an opinion, but there is way more to the former glamour model than just her cup size. Yes, this is a woman who's gone from pin-up to publishing sensation. We all have teenage dreams,

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And she surprises even herself when suddenly she becomes a role model for a whole new generation of young women who want to be just like her. Want to hear more? Follow Terribly Famous wherever you listen to podcasts or listen He becomes a role model for a whole new generation of young women who want to be just like her. Want to hear more? Follow Terribly Famous wherever you listen to podcasts, or listen early and add free on Wondery Plus on Apple Podcasts or the Wondery app. When I say the word history, what do you think about? Horses and buggies and dust and a bunch of white dudes,

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Follow Black History For Real on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Often when I'm meditating, Oh, could you please say your names? My name is Strand, like the bookstore in New York. So when I'm meditating, sometimes I'll think about an email I failed to send an hour earlier that was kind of important or something I forgot to tell my father who's staying with our children back in Brooklyn. And it'll have some sense of urgency in my mind and I know I'm not supposed to cling to these things and I'm supposed to be present

in my body and feeling my breath, but it's like the email, the email I forgot to send. And I wonder if it would be beneficial to like meditate with a pad of paper nearby where you quickly write it down and then you can kind of leave that and let that fly off or like like I don't want to lose this thought but maybe it's not so important it'll come back to me later if it really is important so I'm curious how you deal with that that's one question the other question is I feel like part of the point of meditation is to have a non-identification with a self and a selflessness and to kind of dissolve into the universe.

And yet meditation itself is so grounded in like my very essence and my very being in my body, in my breath, the way I'm feeling right now. So how do you balance kind of the obliteration of self with a practice that's incredibly self-centered in a way? Oh yeah, that's a self-centered in a way. Oh yeah, those are really easy. Strand, keep the mic. Thanks, Strand. Keep the mic. Yeah. I'm curious, like, how has... Is that an issue, the first question,

is that an issue that's come up for you at home too, or...? Yes. Oh, I'm looking at my wife here. Yeah. It's our 12th wedding anniversary. We actually talked about this today as we were going on Oh, I'm looking at my wife here. It's our 12th wedding anniversary. We actually talked about this today as we were going on a walk in the woods, and it was beautiful in the foliage, rind back, the crunch of the leaves. And I was trying to think, you know, listen to the sound of the leaves,

feel the wind silk passing by my hands. And instead I'm thinking about work emails that I didn't respond to. And I just can't balance it. And how do you usually deal with it then? I usually try to hang on to the thought of the work email and then go and send it as soon as I can. How's that working out for you? It's challenging.

I mean, I'm a talent agent and it's a high-paced, fast business. I'm expected to respond to people quickly. Everything's urgent. Everything had to be done yesterday. And it's very difficult not to give a sense of outsized importance to what's going on. And just letting it drop just doesn't seem like an option.

Often there are people depending on me, I have to like, you know, somebody's gonna knock it in their car at the right time if I don't, you know, make this happen soon. And none of it really is important. Like it's like, you know, take a step back, it's all... And how can I, I'm gonna keep asking you questions so just hold on to the mic. So, and please jump in, you guys.

This guy's fucked, I mean, he's like... This is great. I'm glad you're getting the beam of attention right now. But how long are your meditations generally at home? I usually 10 to 15 minutes, and I usually do it on the subway, and I actually wonder if this is cheating because it is sort of multitasking. But my office is in the Flatiron, and I live wonder if this is cheating because it is sort of multitasking. But my office is in the Flatiron

and I live in South Brooklyn and so when I'm on the R train, I like do my meditations during the commute and actually, like, I feel like I'm killing two birds with one stone because I'm getting a meditation in. And it's very much about, like, feeling the vibrations in the bottom of my feet.

And my meditation also always roves. I can never just stick with a breath. I always think of the Joseph Goldstein story where he's on a bus in India and it smells bad and there are chickens and children crying and how at first he tries to stick with his breath and then he stops resisting his renders and he lets everything sort of become the meditation.

And I like that on the train. I sort of do the same thing. I let one minute it's like holding onto the sound, then I'm going back to the breath, and I'm flitting over to the feelings of the rumbling in my body. But I'm very like onto the next thing, onto the next thing, can't really stick with one thing.

Do you ever try and gather your awareness in one place? Yes, definitely be aspiration. Mm-hmm. Do you have any questions or anything? No, no, this is the best show I've watched. I don't want to keep getting... Well, you know, I'm... So, I don't like giving people meditation instructions, directions.

Wait a minute. I don't like to tell people what they should do. Wait a minute. You tell us what to do. Yeah, that's different. Because it sounds to me like you understand what's going on with you and you probably know what you need. Yeah. I mean, I think it's definitely, I'm self-aware and I try to stay in the nostrils kind of

when I'm meditating. But yeah, and I think, I don't know, I'm not sure I'm gonna reach my own conclusion here about the email that needs to be sent, that hasn't been sent. Cause it's almost like you do some of your best thinking when you're in the shower or mowing the lawn or going for a jog. It's like that sometimes when you have an epiphany.

And I find it may not be an epiphany, but something from the to-do list does filter in when I'm meditating. And then... Yeah, I think it filters in for most of us. But if it's only 10 minutes out of your day, I think you could commit to it. Sure. I also...

Hey, I don't mind telling you what to it. Fair. I also, I don't mind telling you what to do. She just told him what to do. I know, but I'm going to add to the telling what to do. But he knew that too. Yeah. Well, I'm just going to point out that urgency is a really good thing to work with. Yes. We all think everything is urgent all the time.

It drives us, it drives us moment to moment, the sense that I have to get to the next thing, I have to get to the next thing. So it is really worth looking at where that urgency is. Like what does that feel like going right into, why does this feel like it must be addressed? Where do I feel that urgency? And what would happen if I stayed with it over that hump?

Because it is a hump. It might be a plateau, but it could be. But what would happen if I just stayed with that with curiosity? Was it feel like to come to the other side of my urgency and find out there is no urgency. That's freedom and you can find that in a 30-second block. You can notice the urgency of wanting to shift to another course. You can have a more panoramic practice, you can choose anything, but always needing to update to the next thing is part of the issue of what keeps us in that state of discontent. So notice that urgency.

You know, there are great meditation objects, whether you're on a train or you're at home or wherever you are. I would also say sometimes, write it down. I'd do that sometimes. But I know it'll come back. She's right, absolutely, but committing. But if it's completely obsessing you and you're sitting down for half hour sit, once in a while write it down, sure. I think that's a difference too, and why I asked how long they are. Because there's

a three times difference between a 10 minutes and a half hour sit. 10 minutes you can commit to. If you're only trying to go for 10 minutes, go for the 10 minutes. Right. Thank you. On the rushing thing, maybe say a little bit more about what your intention that you set backstage when we were talking about getting on stage together.

Oh, yeah. Well, I know rushing. I have attention deficit hyperactivity disorder is like my companion for my whole life. So the hyperactivity is big, the impulse of the driving movement, restlessness. So I can get into, and then with the bipolar piece, you get this propulsive speech that can happen

and a lot of intensity pouring through this nervous system. So I find it really helps. We kind of connected ahead of time. How do I wanna show up my body for this teaching? How do I wanna show up in this body for this meeting? And for me, it was spacious, unhurried, unhurried. And just repeating that to myself, like, and then connecting that moment

to what that might be like in my body, it, I can carry that with me. And I could do that in my days, sometimes I do that with them with my kids. You know, it's a game changer. It's hard to do, you forget and then you remember, but once you get the feeling of it, it's like your body remembers it, you know.

We'll move on to somebody else, but I do want to say one more thing about strands, comments or questions earlier. He probably regrets making them, but this idea about the injunction to obliterate the self, and maybe we can get into that in a big way throughout the weekend, but there's nothing to obliterate. It's like trying to kill Santa Claus. You know, there's nothing there. I'm trying to kill Santa Claus with a reindeer horn. Yeah. Well, so, I mean, yes, on some level there is you,

if you look in the mirror, and you will see strand, so on some level of this consensual reality that we all share day to day, yeah, of course you exist. But if we took a high powered microscope to your arm, all we would see is mostly empty space and spinning subatomic particles.

And so both things are seven seven-day loves of paradox, both things are true at the same time. But we can get into this over time, but having hostility towards yourself in that way is probably not the best attitude to bring into meditation. That's really the only point I wanted to make. I love that you are like now a Buddhist nerd animistic. This is not the Dan I met, I don't know how many years ago.

This is not the Dan I met, I don't know how many years ago. But you know, I think that a lot of us hear about these mystical experiences and states, the only way to get to them is through the body and the self. So you know. Yeah. Probably more confused now than you were. Just watch out for obliteration. That's my only comment. We can say more about selflessness as the weekend goes.

Who else has a question? So say your name, please. Oh, sorry. Name is Ron. So I want to present a case study of a physician and see if he can help me. I've been dealing with anger, frustration about a work-related thing. It's been kind of sitting with me. I'm working through it in terms of how to deal

with it professionally. But it is so here, calm, getting in the moment, frustration, name it, feel it, anger. I think I can get, I think I can sit with it, maybe not perfectly. I'm probably trying to push it away, but I also think that there's the opportunity, I guess, through insight to say, okay, is there something that's, I don't know,

some trauma I had when I was three years old, driving that? How do I get into that? Other than not forcing it, sit back, let it happen. Do you have any suggestions or examples of how any of you have worked through those kinds of things? So you're hoping to achieve a psychological insight, is what you're saying? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's constantly, it's just rumination, constantly. I mean, this has been going on for weeks, months. Yeah. Well, I sympathize don't sit down I definitely sympathize with that like, you know rumination and getting pissed about but let me specifically address the hoping for a psychological insight In classical Buddhism, there's like a list of hindrances,

things that get in the way of your meditation, or that can cause a lot of struggle in meditation. And the first one is desire. And you might think it's like only chocolate, but hoping for an insight is, or hoping to be more awake in this last meditation. That's still desire and The whole thing is to be okay with whatever is happening right now So that's one thing that and I'll let the actual teachers correct me after I say a bunch of things here

But the second one is like there's a difference between psychotherapy and meditation And so I think in therapy. It's really useful to talk these things through. But in meditation, you know, there is an investigative element of how is this anger showing up in my body. It's a little different from, oh, I wonder what happened to me when I was a toddler that's producing this pattern of rage, that I think is like extra or a different process, a different modality. And then maybe I could say, well, I have a few thoughts on like little slogans that might be helpful when you're dealing with rage, but before I get to that, I just want to check with you guys.

Does that what I just... Am I okay? Yeah. yeah. I had a couple things I might add to it. Yeah, go, go, please. I have a lot of anger as well from things that happened to me a long time ago. And I noticed that I had a thing around, I wasn't allowed to be angry because being angry is not cool. Being angry is not what a meditation would be like.

Being angry actually gets me in a bad position. So I have kept my anger down. And the more I've kept my anger down, the more reactive I've become in life. So to give myself, to let myself be angry has been very, very good. Not necessary to act it out, to let myself be, so there's a way you work with anger. You know, you, there's a way to work with all the emotions.

Anger, each one has a, there's a similar universal principles, but then there's slight flavors of difference. Anger, the near, there's a, every emotion and like in certain Buddhist ways of framing has like this like wonderful counterpart and the counterpart to anger is like clarity, fierceness, like there's a strength to it. So sometimes I just like, I breathe and I let myself feel the anger and I feel what it, the satisfaction of the power of that moving through me without it netting to land anywhere, just giving myself permission to be angry.

I'm just a human being. I should be angry based on some things that happen to me. I have every right to be. And so I let it sing inside me. And I don't feel guilty. I'm trying to learn to not feel shame or guilt about that. And the more I do that, the less likely it's going to come out in other contexts

in there not cool at all. And that's just one meditative way. There are other meditative traditions that are like externalize it. Go through art, through go into the woods and scream with glorious rage. You're like, go to a punching bag. There's lots of ways to cathartically express anger, express emotions. It doesn't have to be this piece here.

And then therapy is one of those. There's a great therapist named Terry Reel, who I really like. He talks a lot about anger And he talks about it sometimes in the context of male What he calls covert male depression that that there's a kind of tendency not to generalize to be gendered You know make any generalizations about gender but there's a tendency in humans and particularly some male identified humans seem to be more on this spectrum where they they might feel helpless in life and be more on this spectrum where they might feel helpless in life,

and then, but they do not like to feel helpless. So they overcompensate in the other direction to get mad, because it feels better to be angry than to feel helpless and vulnerable. And so there's a kind of one down, one up thing that happens. And so that is something you can unearth in psychotherapy and you can unearth it in meditation. It does happen. You can have an insight of like,

oh gosh, this anger is in response to actually I was feeling really helpless in this situation and you can have that insight in settings. There is a lot to learn there, but to Dan's point, it's hard to go in like, I'm going to find the insight now and look for it. It's more like having this curiosity about the experience, being willing to let yourself have it, to be there. That in and of itself creates this sort of welcoming envelope in which certain insights are more likely to appear at their own time. Is that alright? How's that landing with you, Ron?

Yeah. Yeah, I relate. Relate. Is that sad about anything about that? I will say, having had work things that have pissed me off for a long time in various jobs that I've had, Joseph Goldstein, I talk about a lot because I call him when I'm mad,

will say, he teaches in these little slogans, little mantans, little mantras, little phrases that you can drop into your mind. When you need them, and I find that the more I've pondered them, they actually will arise spontaneously. And so, a little one-two punch he has recommended that I found very helpful if I'm going down the rabbit hole, the rage rabbit hole is, number one is dead end.

I've thought about this enough. No more thinking is gonna help. Dead end, change the channel. The second is, and this, when you hear it, you will understand why I had a little bit of reaction too, because it's off brand, let's say. Love no matter what. Now, this does not mean invite the person who's pissing you off over for dinner

or condone their behavior. But just to recognize that if you came out of that womb and endured all the same circumstances, you would probably see things exactly the way they're seeing things and maybe do exactly the same thing. And so we're all, if you take, and I don't mean this in a theological sense, but if you take the God perspective, we're all just acting out our shit.

And so love in this sense is not approval, it's more just like understanding. I find that to be a good circuit breaker on my rage tendencies. So, try it. Thank you to Seb and Jeff and to all the brave souls who asked questions and showed up for this experiment of the Meditation Party retreat. We're going to do two more Meditation Party retreats in May and in October, so you can buy tickets in the show notes. And as you may know, we've already recorded a bunch of other meditation party episodes and dropped them down the feed. We'll put links to those prior episodes in the show notes as well.

Oh, and by the way, coming up on Friday, we're going to drop a special bonus guided meditation that I personally led during the retreat. So you'll get to hear an amateur meditation guide and some of the questions we got afterwards. Do it at your own risk. Buy or beware 10% happier is produced by Lauren Smith, Gabrielle Zuckerman, Justine Davian, Tara Anderson, DJ Cashmere is our senior producer. Marissa Schneiderman is our senior editor. Shout out to Marissa who did a ton of work to make this episode and one coming up at work. Kevin O'Connell

is our director of audio and post production. and Kimmy Ragler is our Executive Producer. Alicia Mackey leads our marketing, and Tony Magyar is our Director of Podcasts. Nick Thorburn of Islands wrote our theme. If you like 10% happier, and I hope you do, you can listen early and add free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen add free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. Being an actual royal is never about finding your happy ending, but the worst part is if they step out of line or fall in love with the wrong person, it changes the course of

history. I'm Aresha Skidmore-Williams. And I'm Brooke Sifron. We've been telling the stories of the rich and famous on the hit Wondery Show Even the Rich, and talking about the latest celebrity news on Rich and Daily. We're going all over the world on our new show, Even the Royals. We'll be diving headfirst into the lives of the world's kings, queens, and all the wannabes

in their orbit throughout history. Think succession meets the crown meets real life. We're going to pull back the gilded curtain and show how royal status might be bright and shiny, but it comes at the expense of, well, everything else. Like your freedom, your privacy, and sometimes even your head. Follow Even The Royals on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Even The Royals early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus.

Today, hip-hop dominates pop culture, but it wasn't always like that. And to tell the story of how that changed, I want to take you back to a very special year in rap. It was a great time. I'm not sure if you've heard of it, but I'm sure you've heard of it. I'm sure you've heard of it. I'm sure you've heard of it. I'm sure you've heard of it. I'm sure you've heard of it. I'm sure you've heard of it. I'm sure you've heard of it. I'm sure you've heard of it.

I'm sure you've heard of it. I'm sure you've heard of it. I'm sure you've heard of it. I'm sure you've heard of it. I'm sure you've heard of it. I'm sure you've heard of it. I'm sure you've heard of it. I'm sure you've heard of it.

I'm sure you've heard of it. I'm sure you've heard of it. I'm sure you've heard of it. I'm sure you've heard of it. I'm sure you've heard of it. I'm sure you've heard of it. I'm sure you've heard of it. I'm sure you've heard of it. I'm sure you've heard of it. I'm sure you've heard of it. I'm sure you've heard of it. I'm sure you've heard of it. moments, albums, and artists that inspired a sonic revolution. And secured 1988 as one of hip hop's most important years.

We'll talk to the people who were there. And most of all, we'll bring you some amazing stories. You know what my biggest memory from that tour is? It was your birthday. Yes, and you brought me to Shoddy. Life-sized, hard-work cut-out. This is Class of 88, the story of a year that changed hip-hop. Follow Class of 88 on the Wondry app

or wherever you get your podcasts.